[Traum]

Canadian court rejects rich migrants? compensation claim over defunct visa scheme | South China Morning Post (http://www.scmp.com/news/world/article/1541520/canada-court-rejects-millionaire-migrants-compensation-claim-over-defunct)

Federal judge kicks out case by 1,500 applicants trying to force Canada to process visa applications under the repealed Immigrant Investor Programme or pay millions in compensation

Canada’s Federal Court has slapped down a bid by about 1,500 rich would-be immigrants, most of them Chinese millionaires, to force the government to process their visa applications under the defunct Immigrant Investor Programme, or pay them C$5 million (HK$36 million) each.

In a strongly worded ruling, Justice Mary Gleason said “would-be immigrants have no right to force the Minister [of immigration] to set any particular quota for any economic [immigration] class. This determination is in keeping with long-established principles, which hold that no one possesses a right to immigrate”.

The ruling was dated Monday, but only made public on Thursday. Its release came one week after the controversial Immigrant Investor Programme (IIP) was formally shut down, with the passage of legislation in Canada’s parliament. The applications of about 60,000 would-be immigrants – about 80 per cent of whom were mainland Chinese who filed their applications in Hong Kong – have now been formally scrapped.

The announcement in February that the IIP was being axed triggered the lawsuit, which was organised by Toronto immigration lawyer Tim Leahy. Leahy had asked the court to order that his clients’ applications be processed, or that each be paid C$5 million in compensation.

Leahy had argued that his clients’ applications were unreasonably delayed by the way Canada handled a massive backlog in the IIP, that was created when tens of thousands of rich Chinese swamped the Hong Kong consular office with applications before the scheme was frozen in 2012. Ottawa had decided that new applications would be processed concurrently with old ones, but Leahy said this was unfair, and a “first-come, first-served” approach would have seen his clients admitted to Canada before the scheme was axed.

Leahy also argued that the intake for the scheme should have been increased.

Gleason said: “I am far from convinced that counsel for the applicants has demonstrated that if either or both of these two things had occurred, [the applications] would have been processed by now.”

The judge also rejected an argument that Leahy’s clients deserved protection under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and that these rights had been violated by the government.

Said Gleason: “[The applicants] neglect to deal with the significant jurisprudence of this Court and of the Federal Court of Appeal that holds that foreign citizens outside Canada have no rights under the Charter in respect of activities that occur outside of Canada.

“I need not decide in this case whether the Charter does extend rights to the applicants as, even if they possess such rights, none have been violated in the treatment of their visa applications in these matters.”

Gleason also rejected what she called “vague assertions” that the applicants had had their rights to equality under the law violated, and that the principles of federalism had been breached by the preference given to other applicants who sought to migrate under Quebec province’s parallel version of the IIP, which is still functioning. “Neither of these claims has any merit,” she said.

Leahy said he planned to appeal the ruling on behalf of his clients, more than 1,300 of whom are Chinese.

“Justice Gleason’s ruling … disabuses anyone trusting in Canadian law that, if CIC [Citizenship and Immigration Canada] abuses them, they may count on the Federal Court to ensure fair treatment and the rule of law,” Leahy said in a statement.

“Instead, it affirms that the Minister of Immigration may rule with impunity in the same manner as the tsars ruled Russia once did – except, of course, that he will never have to face a firing squad for anything he does to those whose fate he has in his hands.”

The IIP was the world’s most popular wealth migration scheme, helping waves of rich Hongkongers and mainland Chinese move to Canada over the past 28 years. Under the scheme, applicants worth a minimum of C$1.6 million received visas for themselves and their immediate family in return for loaning the government C$800,000 interest-free for five years, after which the loan was returned in full.

By 2010, applications at the Hong Kong consulate, nearly all of them lodged by mainland Chinese, surpassed the combined number received globally for investor migration schemes run by the US, the UK and Australia. In the decade to last year, the scheme brought 42,435 rich migrants to British Columbia province alone, out of a national total of 91,745, although the latter figure is believed to include admissions under the Quebec scheme.
The lawsuit made no sense to begin with. The entitlement mentality these applicants have is just absurd...

[jackmeister]

Idiots. Wasting our time and taxpayers money.

But to be fair, they should've scrapped it by not allowing new applicants but instead screwed everyone that's already in line. That's not the Canadian way

[Mr.HappySilp]

Sure they want the gov to look at the application. Give me an hour and I will just reject every single one. Easy.

[godwin]

Not really, since they lost the case, they have to pay all the court costs etc. I think it is great to have clarity and on non Canadian's dime.. Not to mention Federal lawyers are salaried, they get paid whether there are cases or not.

Idiots. Wasting our time and taxpayers money.

[6o4__boi]

HAHAHAHAHAAHH



good.

[Tone Loc]

Good. Nice to see justice prevail and show the rest of the world that wealthy people cannot simply bypass the immigration line and pay for citizenship to a first world country. I don't know 100% of the politics/economics involved, but such a desperate measure should never have happened in the first place IMO.

[Traum]

Don't forget that this IIP program is only one of the ways (though probably the most popular way) for wealthy immigrants to make it into our beautiful country. The Quebec program is still fully in place, and IIRC, the federal government actually increased the quota in some other investment immigration program.

I am not at all anti-immigration -- as a matter of fact, I am very pro-immigration. But at the same time, I strongly believe that we should only be accepting immigrants who are willing to embrace the Canadian way of life and to contribute to our Canadian society. If the freeloaders are only looking to use our country as their insurance policy, or to take advantage of the rights and benefits that our country offers, then please, these people are not at all welcomed.

[Manic!]

I wonder how hard it is for a rich British person to get into Canada?

We also let this British criminal into Canada.

http://voiceofniagara.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/conrad_black_mug_shot21.jpg

[Gululu]

It's canada's loss.

What the federal government had done was unethical, disgraceful, and very unCanadian-like. So whenever the feds need the easy money, they allow IIP, and when they no longer need $$$ they fuck everyone up by axing the program? fuck you. Many of the applicants had waited 8 years of uncertainty, during this period of time, many opportunities were foregone, time wasted not to mention tremendous capital losses. As of now, Canada is no longer the top choice for chinese immigrants anyway. There are more than a handful of countries that are willing to take in immigrants and actually respect the applicants unlike canada. it's all canada's loss :whistle:

[Lomac]

There are still plenty of ways to immigrate to Canada. The new Start-Up Visa, for one. As well, there's still the existing skilled trades option, family sponsorship, or go through the Provincial Nominee process where you can apply as an entrepreneur. So if you have money and want to immigrate to Canada, there's always the latter route. It's not like they've slammed the door shut on rich people wanting to come to Canada; they just have to be able to prove in one form or another that they can be a productive member of Canadian society.

Personally I felt the IIP was a terrible idea. All you had to do was give the government a chunk of change (okay, admittedly a large chunk of change) for five years, after which they gave it back. There was no guarantee the people they admitted would help Canadian society at all, whether it was through creating new jobs via start up businesses or whatever. Sure, they had to draft up business plans and all this other stuff, but that was still no guarantee things were going to happen.

[asahai69]

I wonder how hard it is for a rich British person to get into Canada?

We also let this British criminal into Canada.


he was born in montreal

[quasi]

It's canada's loss.

Canada is no longer the top choice for chinese immigrants anyway. There are more than a handful of countries that are willing to take in immigrants and actually respect the applicants unlike canada. it's all canada's loss :whistle:

So why all the belly aching, if there are so many desirable Countries out there that these applicants would rather be in and that would love to have their money they should go there and stop the crying. I'm pretty sure most Canadians aren't going to lose any sleep over it, personally I could give a fuck if they let these people in or not.

[Marshall Placid]

I wonder how hard it is for a rich British person to get into Canada?

We also let this British criminal into Canada.

http://voiceofniagara.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/conrad_black_mug_shot21.jpg


I knew it the second I saw the pic who it was. Conrad Black from a while ago.

But it looks like as asahai69 pointed out earlier, he was born in Canada.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

There are still plenty of ways to immigrate to Canada. The new Start-Up Visa, for one. As well, there's still the existing skilled trades option, family sponsorship, or go through the Provincial Nominee process where you can apply as an entrepreneur. So if you have money and want to immigrate to Canada, there's always the latter route. It's not like they've slammed the door shut on rich people wanting to come to Canada; they just have to be able to prove in one form or another that they can be a productive member of Canadian society.

Personally I felt the IIP was a terrible idea. All you had to do was give the government a chunk of change (okay, admittedly a large chunk of change) for five years, after which they gave it back. There was no guarantee the people they admitted would help Canadian society at all, whether it was through creating new jobs via start up businesses or whatever. Sure, they had to draft up business plans and all this other stuff, but that was still no guarantee things were going to happen.

not to side with the immigration program... but isn't that large chunk of change... more than the average canadian will ever contribute in their entire lives in tax money?

[EndLeSS8]

FINALLY THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT DOES SOMETHING RIGHT!!!!

[Lomac]

not to side with the immigration program... but isn't that large chunk of change... more than the average canadian will ever contribute in their entire lives in tax money?

Maybe, maybe not. The point is that the $800,000 is lent to the government for five years, after which the entirety is given back. It's not taxed, it's not skimmed, nothing. It's nothing more than a five year, interest free loan given to the government.

[iEatClams]

Maybe, maybe not. The point is that the $800,000 is lent to the government for five years, after which the entirety is given back. It's not taxed, it's not skimmed, nothing. It's nothing more than a five year, interest free loan given to the government.

plus if they are not doing anything except use it as an insurance policy, they are actually costing tax-payers.

I believe they will have access to our roads, public services, health-care, old-age, etc, yet they are not paying a dime as they are not contributing to our society.

[Manic!]

he was born in montreal

But he was not a Canadian citizen he was a British citizen.

[Manic!]

plus if they are not doing anything except use it as an insurance policy, they are actually costing tax-payers.

I believe they will have access to our roads, public services, health-care, old-age, etc, yet they are not paying a dime as they are not contributing to our society.

Are you telling me these people don't eat or buy stuff while in Canada?

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Maybe, maybe not. The point is that the $800,000 is lent to the government for five years, after which the entirety is given back. It's not taxed, it's not skimmed, nothing. It's nothing more than a five year, interest free loan given to the government.

This would depend on how saavy the government is and how they use the 800k.

800k isn't a lot... lol, i thought it was in the millions. bleh.

plus if they are not doing anything except use it as an insurance policy, they are actually costing tax-payers.

I believe they will have access to our roads, public services, health-care, old-age, etc, yet they are not paying a dime as they are not contributing to our society.

well, i'm pretty sure the rich spend a lot, and those spendings get taxed... the taxes they pay for shopping is probably more than most canadians ever make in their life...

so they are contributing... as long as they're spending money they're contributing.

my question is...

it was only 1500 people... that's like.. a drop within a drop of the ocean.

gululu is kinda right. they shoulda let those 1500 in and cut the applications off.

if it ain't the chinese coming in, it's someone else.

all this over egotistical nationalistic pride on how people should be converted and obey canadian "culture" gotta pull their heads out of their asses.
you'll grow old and bitch at the young canadians for not acting "canadian" the way you thought "canadians" were.

canada will change, and it wont care whether you like it or not.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

i mean seriously.

there's more than 1500 bums and crack addicts and other degenerates living in canada.
they're certainly not contributing to "canada" or being "canadian pride" or whatever the fuck.

it's not like we're tight on room. lol.

I wouldn't mind 1500 millionaires moving to canada. why not.

better than 1500 "normal" people moving in and becoming nothing but another fucking grey faced tax paying sentinel.

think about it... 1500 individuals. millionaires. if they even spend just 100k a year on "stuff"...

that's at least 16-20 million in taxes generated by them.

and i'm sure they spend more than 100k a year... that's a super low range estimate.

16-20 million in taxes per year minimum from 1500 people...

how much have u contributed to canada? lol.


the ego in this thread is out of hand lol.
somehow being here first or born here, suddenly you're more canadian?
what have you guys done?
contributed lots of money? paid tons of taxes?
come up with awesome ideas? started awesome companies and generated tons of revenue and employment?

no... you're just a fucking gear. like everyone else in this thread.
and the truth of the matter is, those rich asses are bigger gears than you. probably bigger than you'll ever be.

what "right" do you have to put yourself higher than them? you don't do as much on paper nor in real life.

you guys hate on rich asian kids cuz they're born into wealth and flaunt it or whatever... but do you not realise you're born canadian, and you're doing the same thing, but not with money... but with the culture? lol. you're acting like you own it.


so what? you don't like them horking up loogies and blowing snot on the road and driving their nice cars around?

i'm canadian.. i spit. and if i ever buy a nice car, i'll drive it around just like them. i'll do everything they do. and i'm canadian.

and others will do the same. you guys are just labelling them. the truth is that label can be applied on anyone, any race, any culture, any gender.

1500 millionaires.

i can sure think of 1500 degenerate backwater hicks that i'd rather not have in our country... and they're "rightfully canadian" too.

[iEatClams]

^ so what if we are being hypocrites? They may contribute in taxes paid, but I feel they can be detriments in other ways that cant be compared in monetary terms, and whose to say it doesn't prevent more of them from coming in?

In all honesty it does come to conforming to our culture and values. You are right, I don't like their rude snot blowing ways, or their inconsiderate nature, lack of manners , greedy culture that values $ over all. I prefer the canadian culture and I want to keep it that way. It may appear as discrimination, but I view it as a culture discrimination. They are viewed in a negative light even from their own people. disclaimer - I am asian.

Guaranteed you if this was 5000 rich applicants from places like Switzerland, Germany, Sweden etc not one person would be bitching.

Similar issues are happening with immigration in european countries when new immigrants that are much different do not conform. There are rich iranian, russian kids living here driving nice cars right now and you dont see us complaining about them?

Last I remember our country is a democracy where the majority of people are Canadians with canadian values, and so what if we want it to be that way, whether it's rational or not?

We cant do much with the hicks that we already got here, but we can do something about the people that are not here yet.

I apologize if this threads on the line of being a bigot or racist, and mods please remove it if it is, it is not my intention, I was just stating it as I see.

[iEatClams]

there's a saying that money cant buy you class. and I understand a lot of these people were from working poor or farmers and now they are super rich millionaires, but if they can just be educated on not defecating or urinating in public, Budging in lines, not throwing their garbage in their condo lobby etc, I think less people would be having issues.

I think it will just take a generation or two, just like with other immigrants that have came here in the past

[EvoFire]

^ so what if we are being hypocrites? They may contribute in taxes paid, but I feel they can be detriments in other ways that cant be compared in monetary terms, and whose to say it doesn't prevent more of them from coming in?

In all honesty it does come to conforming to our culture and values. You are right, I don't like their rude snot blowing ways, or their inconsiderate nature, lack of manners , greedy culture that values $ over all. I prefer the canadian culture and I want to keep it that way. It may appear as discrimination, but I view it as a culture discrimination. They are viewed in a negative light even from their own people. disclaimer - I am asian.

Guaranteed you if this was 5000 rich applicants from places like Switzerland, Germany, Sweden etc not one person would be bitching.

Similar issues are happening with immigration in european countries when new immigrants that are much different do not conform. There are rich iranian, russian kids living here driving nice cars right now and you dont see us complaining about them?

Last I remember our country is a democracy where the majority of people are Canadians with canadian values, and so what if we want it to be that way, whether it's rational or not?

We cant do much with the hicks that we already got here, but we can do something about the people that are not here yet.

I apologize if this threads on the line of being a bigot or racist, and mods please remove it if it is, it is not my intention, I was just stating it as I see.

Logged in just to thank you, while no I don't think what you said is "politically correct", I think being politically correct is load of bullshit anyways.

Some might say its racist, but is it racist when you are of the same culture? I'm Chinese myself and I can't stand some of this snobbiness and nose in air attitude from some of these people.

There are a lot of great Chinese immigrants, but this crowd that comes in through this program is not the crowd that we want to see. On top of that, the "more taxes" argument does have holes in them. These new immigrants don't necessarily spend all their time here. If anything they still spend most of their time and money back in China, they don't generate any value for the economy.

[Mr.HappySilp]

i mean seriously.

there's more than 1500 bums and crack addicts and other degenerates living in canada.
they're certainly not contributing to "canada" or being "canadian pride" or whatever the fuck.

it's not like we're tight on room. lol.

I wouldn't mind 1500 millionaires moving to canada. why not.

better than 1500 "normal" people moving in and becoming nothing but another fucking grey faced tax paying sentinel.

think about it... 1500 individuals. millionaires. if they even spend just 100k a year on "stuff"...

that's at least 16-20 million in taxes generated by them.

and i'm sure they spend more than 100k a year... that's a super low range estimate.

16-20 million in taxes per year minimum from 1500 people...

how much have u contributed to canada? lol.


the ego in this thread is out of hand lol.
somehow being here first or born here, suddenly you're more canadian?
what have you guys done?
contributed lots of money? paid tons of taxes?
come up with awesome ideas? started awesome companies and generated tons of revenue and employment?

no... you're just a fucking gear. like everyone else in this thread.
and the truth of the matter is, those rich asses are bigger gears than you. probably bigger than you'll ever be.

what "right" do you have to put yourself higher than them? you don't do as much on paper nor in real life.

you guys hate on rich asian kids cuz they're born into wealth and flaunt it or whatever... but do you not realise you're born canadian, and you're doing the same thing, but not with money... but with the culture? lol. you're acting like you own it.


so what? you don't like them horking up loogies and blowing snot on the road and driving their nice cars around?

i'm canadian.. i spit. and if i ever buy a nice car, i'll drive it around just like them. i'll do everything they do. and i'm canadian.

and others will do the same. you guys are just labelling them. the truth is that label can be applied on anyone, any race, any culture, any gender.

1500 millionaires.

i can sure think of 1500 degenerate backwater hicks that i'd rather not have in our country... and they're "rightfully canadian" too.

Again who is to they will spend or even stay in Canada? Can you be 100% sure they will not stay in China and make money there while leaving their family here using our social programs for free because the husband is the one who makes the money and since the wife don't work therefore she doesn't pay income tax so is consider as low income which means they don't have to pay for health care etc etc..... How about the husband move all his families here and the divorce his wife thus leaving us tax payers to foot the bill for his wife and his children and his parents but in reality he is still giving them money to use?

What have I done? Well at least I learn to speak English instead of complaining that people SHOULD speak Chinese because I refuse to even try to learn a bit of English to get by.

Oh and Ulic having money doesn't mean they are a better class then anyone else. True billionaire also have class and certainly wouldn't spit on the ground and go around acting like a bunch of assholes. Instead of complaining the true billionaires would actually think of other ways to be become Canadian citizen by using other investment programs that we offer.

Oh and I am more Canadian because I actually speak English, can sing the national anthem, watch hockey and at the every least can name all the provinces and territories of Canada.

[SkinnyPupp]

they're "rightfully canadian" too.

Of that ridiculously huge post you wrote, this is the only real point that was made.

[El Bastardo]

But he was not a Canadian citizen he was a British citizen.

I knew it the second I saw the pic who it was. Conrad Black from a while ago.

But it looks like as asahai69 pointed out earlier, he was born in Canada.

he was born in montreal



It is Canadian law that a Canadian citizen is not permitted to have a British title. It was for this reason that Black renounced his citizenship in Canada and maintained his British citizenship. He then re-immigrated to Canada, but only after being convicted of a felony in the USA.

tl;dr - its complicated

[Manic!]

It is Canadian law that a Canadian citizen is not permitted to have a British title. It was for this reason that Black renounced his citizenship in Canada and maintained his British citizenship. He then re-immigrated to Canada, but only after being convicted of a felony in the USA.

tl;dr - its complicated

Yes, after he got out of jail he was a convicted British citizen. So we let a foreign national who was a convicted criminal into Canada. But you if he was a brown Muslim he would not have been allowed in.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

^ so what if we are being hypocrites? They may contribute in taxes paid, but I feel they can be detriments in other ways that cant be compared in monetary terms, and whose to say it doesn't prevent more of them from coming in?

because if you're being hypocritical, then they can be as well. and then both your arguments are invalid lol. why don't u just stick your middle fingers up and throw shit at each other? it's the same thing.


In all honesty it does come to conforming to our culture and values. You are right, I don't like their rude snot blowing ways, or their inconsiderate nature, lack of manners , greedy culture that values $ over all. I prefer the canadian culture and I want to keep it that way. It may appear as discrimination, but I view it as a culture discrimination. They are viewed in a negative light even from their own people. disclaimer - I am asian.

yeah but don't u think you're just over generalizing? they must ALL be like that right?
lol... how many non chinese millionaires do you know? maybe it's not chinese... maybe it's just millionaires. or people in the position of power and money... maybe you're just discriminating against money.

cuz most money in china is new money... i can guarentee you if millions of "normal average canadians" suddenly got tons of money, a lot of them would become assholes and spend like mad... they'd all be YOLO and doing dumbass shit.

you don't have to look far to see these kinda things in our culture. just look at all the fast money young artists in western culture. how many of them do stupid shit and show off?

are they not "western culture"?

the problem is most people will get an inflated ego when they get money fast, and they were not born into money nor experienced wealth in their life.
this applies to most people.

Guaranteed you if this was 5000 rich applicants from places like Switzerland, Germany, Sweden etc not one person would be bitching.

I guarantee you if rich applicants from those places you named were applying here like the mainland chinese were... there's something really fucked up going on in europe. and they would be mad when they were denied.

that example was pretty bad, cuz i don't think they'd wanna immigrate here... the places you named are superior in almost every way.

how about if canada was more like a 3rd world country, and you were applying to switzerland and 8 years later they just cut you off and say no. lol... yeah, you wouldn't get mad right.

Similar issues are happening with immigration in european countries when new immigrants that are much different do not conform. There are rich iranian, russian kids living here driving nice cars right now and you dont see us complaining about them?

they have the same problems as us. you go to UK and look at all the cultural bigots bitch about the rich arab kids revving their loud million dollar cars together, driving by harrods acting exactly like the mainlanders do here.

in fact... if you go to any 3rd world country and view the westerners that suddenly feel "super rich" there, you should see how a lot of them act.
exactly like the way these super rich here act.

like i said, when most people suddenly feel powerful, they're gonna be a lot less polite and do a lot more "YOLO" "fuck what they think" attitude.

the SAME aspect of ego driving you guys to bash them, will be the same ego that will drive your thirst to show off and abuse your power. you just don't realise it yet.

it's just you guys don't have any power. your only power right now is your "rightful canadian" citizenship... hence you guys leveraging it and using it like you own it.

if you guys suddenly all won the lottery, you guys might not be douches all the time. but i can say for sure, enough of you guys will, enough to to make the public think you're douches.

Last I remember our country is a democracy where the majority of people are Canadians with canadian values, and so what if we want it to be that way, whether it's rational or not?

that's not how it works man. rationality is what separates us from most of the beasts under us in the food chain.

also you're speaking as if your opinion represents all of canadian value...

the last i thought canadian values were just be nice and accepting, and treat everyone fairly and equally.

We cant do much with the hicks that we already got here, but we can do something about the people that are not here yet.

they're not here yet, but they're not hicks that are coming here. they're people with immediate pragmatic use to our economy ($). their intrinsic potential is still not known, but i can say it's higher than most canadians. they're millionaires. they can create things on a whim with the money they have. ideas and businesses. whatever they want. you have to go look for a job and slave away.

i still don't see the down side here.

it's not like they're gonna be EVERWHERE... 1500 people man. that's less than the size of a highschool. the money they're bringing in MORE than makes up for any detriments they will cause.

YOU might not want them here for some selfish reason. but I want them here, cuz i want their fucking money so I can improve my life, and canada the way I see fit.

at the very least, canadians should view them just as another tool in the tool box for canada. no more no less right?

what's the harm? they're not jihadists. they're not gonna spread some religion or something crazy.

they're gonna just spend money on ridiculous luxury items and splurge on shit... i forget... please remind me... i think we live in western society, called capitalism...

in fact, i think in real world application... us north americans actually value capitalism over democracy. capitalism takes priority first. not democracy.
not saying what should be... just saying thats how it is.. and that's how it's ALWAYS been.

democracy like CiC would say... is just an illusion. real democracy is voted with dollar bills. money.

I apologize if this threads on the line of being a bigot or racist, and mods please remove it if it is, it is not my intention, I was just stating it as I see.

it is kinda, but i don't see it that way.

i just see it more as egotistical. not being able to sympathize or empathize with another culture because of one's own ego blinding themselves from realising that other people on this planet, are just extensions of themselves.

people can be taught, and changed.

if not them, their kids, or their kids kids... who cares if it takes 1-2 generations? that's nothing... who cares if it's your WHOLE life... there's trillions of years ahead that others will enjoy.

the world timeline doesn't just consist of your own short little life. ego, selfishness... man.

there's a saying that money cant buy you class. and I understand a lot of these people were from working poor or farmers and now they are super rich millionaires, but if they can just be educated on not defecating or urinating in public, Budging in lines, not throwing their garbage in their condo lobby etc, I think less people would be having issues.

some of them can be educated.

the apartment I lived in has a huge problem with EVERYONE throwing whatever trash or objects into every different type of bin.

until someone took the time to make proper labels that were in chinese. along with pictures and other visual diagrams. someone took the time to make that and now they're on a lot of the bins i see. guess what? the problem has half resolved itself. just cuz someone took the time and effort to FIX the situation instead of just ignoring it or bitching about it.

i mean why wouldn't they? in china they literally dump their bare garbage in a pile outside the shops on the side walk at night. there's huge piles of garbage outside every store at night. they don't use garbage cans... trucks come along and take it all up. people with brooms and shit come and clean all that shit up.

if you moved to china, and you couldn't find a garbage can, wouldn't you be confused? what would you do? probably put it in the closest thing that resembled a garbage can right? well the ground is the closest thing that resembles a garbage can here.

old habits die hard. it's just one generation of them...

and like old stubborn people... they won't change... we just have to wait for them to die off. but we don't focus on them... we focus on their future generations... the ones we CAN mold... and those little kids will have access to their parents money, but be canadian. ISNT THAT ENOUGH REASON TO LET THEM IN!? and their kids kids will be more canadian... and hopefully the money will still be running in the family.

I think it will just take a generation or two, just like with other immigrants that have came here in the past

exactly... now you're thinking in bigger pictures and more of a futurist. the RIGHT NOW doesn't matter as much as people think. it's just an itch we can't scratch, in the future, we won't even care or remember this time in age.

people forget it takes more than one generation to breed success. and these family's kids are ahead of a lot of us by a lot. they're generations ahead in terms of monetary power. but in a quick 1-2 generations we can MENTALLY CONVERT their kids to be more canadian. slowly, every generation. slowly coverting, until they're just as "canadian" as we are.

but that won't happen unless we let them in, and they won't be more canadian if we're assholes to them.

one day when their kids or kids kids go back to china, they'll realise they're more canadian than chinese.

in fact a lot of old chinese immigrants here over the course of 25-30 years have become more canadian than they were when they were first here. they would rather live here than go back to asia. canada has softened them. their values have been slowly skewed over to our side. yeah it took 25-30 years for it to happen, but so what? they're old, like i said, old habits die hard.

focus on their kids. not them.


Some might say its racist, but is it racist when you are of the same culture? I'm Chinese myself and I can't stand some of this snobbiness and nose in air attitude from some of these people.

are you chinese of culture or ethnicity. there's a difference.

born here, and i've always called myself chinese canadian. and regarded myself as pretty asian.

until i went and explored mainland china. then i realised, i am not fucking chinese at all.

it would be like a fuckin surrey jack being all fuckin indian pryde... then going to india and realising, the locals have nothing in fucking common with him. he is the least thing that is indian in india lol.

you're of canadian culture. but your DNA is asian. that's about it.

like a fuckin nikka saying he's african therefore he can hate on blacks from africa. lol bullshit.

you're as chinese as a black guy from the bronx is african.


There are a lot of great Chinese immigrants, but this crowd that comes in through this program is not the crowd that we want to see. On top of that, the "more taxes" argument does have holes in them. These new immigrants don't necessarily spend all their time here. If anything they still spend most of their time and money back in China, they don't generate any value for the economy.
Again who is to they will spend or even stay in Canada? Can you be 100% sure they will not stay in China and make money there while leaving their family here using our social programs for free because the husband is the one who makes the money and since the wife don't work therefore she doesn't pay income tax so is consider as low income which means they don't have to pay for health care etc etc..... How about the husband move all his families here and the divorce his wife thus leaving us tax payers to foot the bill for his wife and his children and his parents but in reality he is still giving them money to use?

are you two SURE of this?

who cares if they spend 80% of their time in china? i'm sure them or some extension of them (kids, wife etc) will spend at least 100k a year here.

and if they use our social programs???

you don't think that the rich wife and kids spend more than 100k a year? isn't that contributing more to the social programs than you guys are? i'm pretty sure the taxes they pay alone each year just in luxury goods covers more than themselves. i'm sure if we took them out of the equation, the social programs would be hurt monetarily more than if we removed equal number of normal canadians.

the second example where the man "divorces" his wife. wife gets social help but the man is still secretly footing the bill... that's a complex issue. you don't want canada to become like the fucking USA with its billion pages of RIDICULOUS tax laws.

it's a "problem" we're gonna have to just deal with. it is the cost of doing business you can say. the cost of accepting immigrants. we cannot control money outside our nation... i don't know the solution.. but the solution isn't to block the immigrants or to make our laws crazy like americans.


What have I done? Well at least I learn to speak English instead of complaining that people SHOULD speak Chinese because I refuse to even try to learn a bit of English to get by.

that's a pretty weak argument dude. their inability to learn chinese is just the same as the whitest boys inability to grasp chinese.

Oh and Ulic having money doesn't mean they are a better class then anyone else. True billionaire also have class and certainly wouldn't spit on the ground and go around acting like a bunch of assholes. Instead of complaining the true billionaires would actually think of other ways to be become Canadian citizen by using other investment programs that we offer.


what's a true billionaire?! what are "billionaires" supposed to act like? what are "rich" people SUPPOSED to act like?

flip it around, what are you "poor" people supposed to act like? like a buncha degenerates looking for handouts?

it's just a idealistic thought you have in your head man. billionaires LITERALLY have more ability to act whatever way they want than you do. They have more means of getting away with it. that's all it comes down to man.

no money can't buy you class, that's very obvious. even in cases like justin beiber and kanye west or britney spears.

you're assuming billionaires SHOULD just find another way cuz they have the money to right? yeah they are, and the first way they naturally thought of is to bitch about it. cuz bitching works a lot of the time. i AM SURE they are finding other ways as we speak. they're not stupid.

they're not better in class than everyone else. but they have more immediate pragmatic potential... and on a board full of people that are not very good at abstract theoretical interpretations... and full of people that like pragmatic application of "use" in the "here and now", like tools and cars and sports... one would think, they would know the power of money... cuz really hey, the person with money can do whatever mods and buy whatever cars they want right? IMMEDIATE USE.

very ironic because when the masses have to discuss theoretical values, they usually dismiss it as useless and not pragmatic enough.
but when faced with money owned by people they "don't like"... suddenly pragmatic use is dismissed and they all rush to their theoretical values they call "the canadian way"... and rational or not, they wanna keep it that way... yeah.. ok..

just twisting logic to the way you wanna make it work, and escaping to ambiguity when logic can't be twisted.


Oh and I am more Canadian because I actually speak English, can sing the national anthem, watch hockey and at the every least can name all the provinces and territories of Canada.

I'm canadian born. I hardly know the lyrics to our anthem. I don't give a FLYING FUCK about HOCKEY. and I could care less about all the names of the provinces and territories in canada. i only know it cuz i was forced to learn that shit in school. if they didn't force it onto me, i wouldn't of even cared.

does that make me less canadian than you?

drop the english speaking argument. that's very narrow minded. the world consists of more than just canada.

i speak english far better than i do chinese. my chinese is pathetic and i've been learning it for over 25 years.

you know why i wish i spoke better chinese now? listen to this:

when I go travelling around the world I fucking feel pathetic when I get involved in a mixed group of different nationals, and i feel like im lagging behind cuz you'd expect a group of mixed nationals to just fuckign speak english BUT THEY DONT.

I was once with a german national, swiss national, and taiwanese national... and i represented canada.
guess what... the german could only speak broken english, fairly well mandarin, and german. the swiss national could only speak chinese, german and french, and the taiwanese national could speak french and chinese... guess what language we had to use to communicate?

more and more when I travel, i find this to be the case. the common language is NOT english. and if it is, it's very broken.

a lot of north americans are regarded as not very well travelled or cultured to the global eyes. our ego of being world "leaders" has blinded us in some aspects.

i don't know about you, but i'd rather keep up with the world than keep up with one single country.

the globe, to me, will always be more important than any smaller entity.

there might not be a lot of us globalists in every city or country, but globally combined we make up a lot of people.
we work toward making the earth a smaller place. a more global approach. the whole... while other people are bickering over whos culture is better, whos religion is better. chaotic redundant infighting within nations and between nations... what a fucking waste of time and energy.

Of that ridiculously huge post you wrote, this is the only real point that was made.

you missed a lot of other points. the only point of being "rightfully canadian" is that there's actually no fucking actual use.

like i said, i'm "rightfully canadian", but i am far from what you would call a "typical canadian".

the only use my canadian citizenship has is, canada has to come rescue me cuz really, i don't belong anywhere else. canada gave birth to me. that's about it.

i am not better than an immigrant. i am not better than a permanent resident. The only reason i can get away with more shit in canada is cuz canada has no where to extradite me to. THATS MY ONLY "RIGHT" that stands out vs the adopted citizens of canada. i have no other fucking home. u cant kick me out no matter how bad i am.

and yes, my posts are stupid long. and they will only get longer lol. i admit i am not the most adept at concise messages. but i am able to convey things in layman's terms so maximum audience can potentially understand my perspective.

[geeknerd]

This judgement shouldn't be surprising and you guys are arguing about something not worth arguing.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the article states 60 000 applicants got slammed with the defunct program and of those applicants, 80% were chinese/hongkong and of those, 1500 decided to sue.

So a small portion decided to bitch&whine and even did it by the proper method of using the court system but got denied rightfully so. So what are we really arguing about when all the proper steps were taken? Can't get anymore 'canadian' than this?

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the lawyer is also influencing these bunch to go further and go for the appeal. Win or lose, he is probably making a fuck-ton of money off this case.

[trancehead]

if there was a land that had better quality of life, more transparent government, beautiful landscapes, a stable economy, would one not want to go there if they did not have all those things in their own country?

You can draw some parallels to the American Dream. People want to come down here to own a house with a white picket fence.

This entire continent is made up of immigrants originally. And as they came in, the Native indians were and Aztecs were killed (who themselves either crossed their Bearing Straight or were dropshipped by Ancient fucking aliens).

everyone on this board whose parents are immigrants. Maybe not in the previous generation, but somewhere down the lineage.

And did they adapt to the culture right away? no
Some immigrants are rich and some are poor. Yes and the OP was dealing with mostly richer immgrants. Understandable, alot of rich entitled people are assholes anyways. Even white people

Holistically, Canada like any other country, is not an angel itself either.

Anyways, most mainland chinese i have spoken too love life in Canada. They have even given up their Chinese passports to come here. Some make the effort to learn the language and a bit of culture, but not all. Again immigrants are human, their environmental needs will shape them. So they will certainly learn English if given the right circumstance. Conversely, and like all people as well, they will find the easiest route to a solution (say if you were to live in Richmond no3, you dont need English to get around at all)

TLDR: if you had lots of money and didnt like your own country, you sure as hell would leave too. Or, you would at least put your kids here so they can enjoy a better life. Learning a foreign land's culture takes time. And everyone on this board has immigrant lineage (and if you are native, you crossed the fucking Bering Strait)

[iEatClams]

the world timeline doesn't just consist of your own short little life. ego, selfishness... man.




I think your post kinda shows that you yourself are egotistic and selfish. And you seem to talk in a "i am better than thou" attidude.

Yes I know that people who become rich quickly do stupid things. yes ive heard of miley and justin etc.


if you read my posts I understand the benefits of having rich people come here. however I dont want to negatively impact the majority for the gains of the few. and that it does take generations for them to change. My parents and I were immigrants, yet they werent as bad as some of these folks. My parents didnt expect there to be signs to tell them to not shit in public, they had their old habits but they understood they needed to at least TRY to adapt, and not do things that would piss off the people that are already there.



why should we put up the costs of signs everywhere to welcome them? just so we can educate them? why cant they learn the the BASIC local customs BEFORE coming here. As far as I can remember english is the main language here.

If I was greek, I dont move to russia and demand everyone to speak greek? and last time I checked I dont need a sign to tell me to stop littering when I see a trash bin 2 meters away. I dont think it has much to do with sign and more to do with their "entitlement" and their "selfish" or not give a fuck culture.

why should we deal with their inconsiderate and poor manners for 1-2 generations, you said these people are smart, why cant they learn them from googling online or something. why cant their countries have manner classes to educate them. why should we wait 20-40 years?

i do want to add that not all of them are like this, many do adapt and change. and I applaud them.

if you truly believe that the globe should be more important than any single entity. Shouldn't the world's resources be used to help poor nations prosper? cause if they proper the global economy will proper? shouldn't these people be fixing up their own environment? last I heard you cant see blue skies over there. one can argue that human greed is a cancer and is destroying the planet. we as a species technically have been around for a blink of a time compared to dinosaurs and other species before us. Whose to say that we will be around 1000 years from now or we dont have a major war that sends us to the dark ages?


i apologize as im typing this as fast as I can as I just wanted to write whatever is popping into my mind before heading to bed here so a lot of it may not be grammatically correct.

I think the last poster was on to something and saying this is a stupid debate as everybody has their own personal interests. Everybody has a different goal and a different ideology.

[FS1992EG]

Canada +1
Rich People 0

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

I think your post kinda shows that you yourself are egotistic and selfish. And you seem to talk in a "i am better than thou" attidude.

i come off that way only if you misinterpret it... it's more like: "i see more, and i hope you can see more as well"



if you read my posts I understand the benefits of having rich people come here. however I dont want to negatively impact the majority for the gains of the few. and that it does take generations for them to change. My parents and I were immigrants, yet they werent as bad as some of these folks. My parents didnt expect there to be signs to tell them to not shit in public, they had their old habits but they understood they needed to at least TRY to adapt, and not do things that would piss off the people that are already there.

your parents also didn't come here when a super shit load of other same national immigrants were coming in (aka stick together and no need to adapt), with money (aka no need to adapt).

if they were super rich, and a shit ton of other super rich types were also immigrating, and you had the technology to reach out and find your own kind... they woulda done the exact same thing. stuck together, and not change.

super rich foreigners immigrating to ANY country always change slower. cuz they don't need to. they got money, you forget. money changes things to their needs. not the other way around. it's the single reason we all want money. to bend the world to our needs. not the other way around. few people with money grow beyond that stage of maturity.


why should we put up the costs of signs everywhere to welcome them? just so we can educate them? why cant they learn the the BASIC local customs BEFORE coming here. As far as I can remember english is the main language here.

because we are the host country. because we are a first world country, and they are not. because we are supposed to be superior. because we are supposed to show them how to be kind and accepting. to be generous, in hopes that they will one day realise it and share those same values.

we're a nation based on immigration. we should strive toward being more international. supportive of all humans and causes. you sound like an american.

as far as you can remember, english is the main language. yeah. and as far as i remember, french is just as important as english.

and as far as i remember people are supposed to be accepting and nice.

guess what. reality is different. no one cares that english is the main language except people that can only speak english. it's not a real valid argument. especially in our demographics when minorities are basically majority.

clinging onto traditions is no different than religions. hanging onto old archaic ways... and eventually it will lead to some sort of war.

people have to adapt. faster. and faster. things are changing faster and faster. adapt or be left behind. remember, if you don't change, you'll only grow old lonely.

being stubborn in old archaic traditions and ways of thinking is not a good long term life value. you'll find your club only growing smaller year by year.


If I was greek, I dont move to russia and demand everyone to speak greek? and last time I checked I dont need a sign to tell me to stop littering when I see a trash bin 2 meters away. I dont think it has much to do with sign and more to do with their "entitlement" and their "selfish" or not give a fuck culture.

tons of people throw litter on the ground even if there's a trash bin 2 meters away.

i also explained why they litter. i don't think you understood what i meant. they do it because it's normal. not because they don't give a fuck. they don't know better.

westerners litter because they don't give a fuck. they've been taught since little kids not to litter, to reduce reuse and recycle, and the reasons why. They know better.

most of these chinese people didn't even go to school. let alone learn about pollution.


why should we deal with their inconsiderate and poor manners for 1-2 generations, you said these people are smart, why cant they learn them from googling online or something. why cant their countries have manner classes to educate them. why should we wait 20-40 years?

smart doesn't mean you know how to google something. smart means the ability to adapt and figure stuff out in your own way. it doesn't mean complying with the standards of "everyone else". that's just following.

their countries do have manner classes. those things don't fucking work.

just like our country doesn't have manner classes for when you go to other countries. thats why us north americans have such a fucking bad rep when we go travel. cuz we act like fucking north american yanks and don't even realise it. foreigners hate us cuz we're just as fucking stupid when we're in their country.

you're requesting ridiculous things like you're some elite god on a pedestal, and you're too good to interact with anyone unless they've studied your ways first... get real man.

they can learn that shit here. where it will be taught and learnt much faster.

why should we wait 20-40 years? because that's how long it fucking takes. simple. there IS no faster way.

like i've reiterated many times. conversion takes more than one lifetime. you must stop thinking in short time lengths like your own life.

20-40 years is SHORT buddy.

20-40 years to convert a lineage of family to a nation? you know how many potential citizens stemming from that one family 100's of years down the road?

people always want shit done in their life time. the wise and old grow to be patient and calm because they know time is never on their side. you can only EVER be part of the progress of change, never the goal. the goal is always enjoyed by someone born into it, and they will not appreciate it because of that. and the ones who started it will be dead before they can see it. that is the way of life my friend. you have to accept that. you will not enjoy your vision of the future. and if you get selfish and just decide to fuck it and live your own life and deny others of the same thing, then that is true selfishness.

you can only pass your vision down to your next generations. as you fulfil the visions of your elders.

no one has the longevity to have their cake and eat it too.


if you truly believe that the globe should be more important than any single entity. Shouldn't the world's resources be used to help poor nations prosper? cause if they proper the global economy will proper? shouldn't these people be fixing up their own environment? last I heard you cant see blue skies over there. one can argue that human greed is a cancer and is destroying the planet. we as a species technically have been around for a blink of a time compared to dinosaurs and other species before us. Whose to say that we will be around 1000 years from now or we dont have a major war that sends us to the dark ages?

yeah a lot more of the worlds resources SHOULD be used be used to help all nations prosper.
everyone should be fixing environment to a sustainable balance.

and yeah, we might have a major war or some dark ages crazy shit.

but the ONLY reason that would happen is because of the attitude you have now. unaccepting of others, forcing others to do things some way, when in reality everyone can do things differently and everyone just should be supportive and accepting.

but no, people wanna "OWN" things. like ideologies and cultures and nations. they're not forgiving, they're not willing to teach, they're not patient, and they're stubborn and think they're better.

the host is always the one in power. the one in power should always be more generous and accepting. they're the god damn host. it's honorable, and noble. especially when the eyes of the world are gazing upon you. THAT is respect earned. when you're tolerable.

it is the exact reason why americans are not respected. because they are literally living your ideology. xenophobic, nose stuck up in the air.

the red carpet should be rolled out for our guests. not some brutish initiation that makes them "acceptable" like a fucking gang.

it's like getting angry at a kid for throwing food. they just dunno better man. and it takes time to learn. and realise that they are kids. they're kids to our culture. so what you gonna be? the teacher that kicks the kids out and tells them to learn it and come back, or be the good teacher that students look up to?

i duno about you. you should go to a non western nation and see how quickly you can adapt. you make it sound like it's like doing a kumon practice exam. they aren't another western culture moving here. they're from the far east man. literally the opposite side of the world, with literally completely different ways of doing things.

[will068]

The demand to get in to Canada is high via this route. I wouldn't be surprised if we have a new Immigrant Investor Program where the potential investor has to sink in more money.

I think what we should focus more on is how to attract Fortune 500 companies to have their HQ situated in Canada. That means lower taxes and corporate friendly business laws.

I'm glad the judges used their common sense in this one. I'm loving how the federal government is doing cut throat decisions like these. I'm hoping they open a new IIP with an absurd amount of money as a requirement.

[CharlesInCharge]

If anyone wants to get educated on Canadian culture, its at the very bottom of this picture.
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/18wwdhzlsdw0wjpg.jpg

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

think about it this way, if you saw an old chinese grandpa here and he didn't know the mannerisms or how to navigate a situation the western way. would you stand there and critisize him... or would you try to help him and teach him?

now imagine a white grandpa in china... in the same situation. what do you think he'd think of the chinese if a young person helped him out vs if everyone just writes propoganda and makes fun of white people for sticking chopsticks in their food, spitting in handkerchiefs, and not taking their shoes off when they enter a house.

and you know how stubborn old people are with their ways...

kinda like... how you're stubborn with your ways... kinda see what you're becoming, and the situation repeating itself in the future... only you're gonna be the one under the microscope for doing things weird...

yeah im stereotyping some mannerisms... so are you though.

lol... man... it's so easy to criticize when you only take on the perspective on one side.

If anyone wants to get educated on Canadian culture, its at the very bottom of this picture.
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/18wwdhzlsdw0wjpg.jpg

china and india are the only cultures that go back 4000+ years unbroken... the mongolians almost fucked it up though.

[4444]

I wonder how hard it is for a rich British person to get into Canada?

We also let this British criminal into Canada.

http://voiceofniagara.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/conrad_black_mug_shot21.jpg

What's ur agenda?

I'm a Brit that immigrated to Canada, took a long time (18 months) and some cost (though my family came in under some "in demand worker" program, not as an investor... Having said that, was very tough to get in when u hear of people who just waltz in, slightly dodgy, and somehow stay, but then u hear stories of slightly dodgy ppl having to go... I wonder how much consistency there is in the Canadian immigration system

[PiuYi]

trying to use the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms when they've never even set foot in the country :fuckthatshit:

[Manic!]

What's ur agenda?

I'm a Brit that immigrated to Canada, took a long time (18 months) and some cost (though my family came in under some "in demand worker" program, not as an investor... Having said that, was very tough to get in when u hear of people who just waltz in, slightly dodgy, and somehow stay, but then u hear stories of slightly dodgy ppl having to go... I wonder how much consistency there is in the Canadian immigration system

My agenda is criminals should not be allowed into Canada. It took you 18 months he got in the next day.

Throughout history white people have always had a much easier time emigrating.

[geeknerd]

My agenda is criminals should not be allowed into Canada. It took you 18 months he got in the next day.

Throughout history white people have always had a much easier time emigrating.

he is canadian born so I'm sure that had a big influence if not the reason of letting him but yea, we don't even let americans with DUI in to canada.

[kross9]

But he was not a Canadian citizen he was a British citizen.

Key word BORN A CANADIAN CITIZEN.. Henceforth always a Canadian Citizen, he only got his British Citizenship in 1999

[4444]

My agenda is criminals should not be allowed into Canada. It took you 18 months he got in the next day.

Throughout history white people have always had a much easier time emigrating.

Bit of an ignorant and racially motivated comment.

[El Bastardo]

Key word BORN A CANADIAN CITIZEN.. Henceforth always a Canadian Citizen, he only got his British Citizenship in 1999

No. He is not always a Canadian citizen. He renounced his Canadian citizenship in 2001 to receive a British title, then re-immigrated to Canada at a later time to pick up his citizenship again.

[Manic!]

Bit of an ignorant and racially motivated comment.

It's not ignorant or racist it's a fact. When the British ruled a large chunk of the world white British citizens had no problems going to any British colony. Colored British citizens could not he same. Even in the 60's the problem existed.

Is this guy Canadian?
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Zx1B-6KaGXk/UmL29RkVVjI/AAAAAAAAAKE/hJT0s9eGJc8/s819-no/OfficialPortrait.jpg

He was Born in Alberta to an American other Cuban father moved tot he states when he was 2. Now is a US Senator who gave up his Canadian citizenship and wants to run for US president.

[iEatClams]

because we are the host country. because we are a first world country, and they are not. because we are supposed to be superior. because we are supposed to show them how to be kind and accepting. to be generous, in hopes that they will one day realise it and share those same values.

we're a nation based on immigration. we should strive toward being more international. supportive of all humans and causes. you sound like an american.



I'm not agreeing entirely or disagreeing with your overall posts, as it all depends on ones ideologies. I dont think I sound american imho. in general, i am actually pro immigration if I feel it will add overall value to our country. I guest I can agree to disagree that I feel these individuals dont add an overall benefit to our nation (not the globe) at this point.

people are suppose to be accepting and nice, and I think in general I am pretty accepting and nice. and i consider myself of a person that has a "good heart" so to speak.

as far as you can remember, english is the main language. yeah. and as far as i remember, french is just as important as english.

and as far as i remember people we are supposed to be accepting and nice, and that we should all try to serve and better the global entity.

you mention reality is different. but the reality is most people that live in canada dont want people that negatively affect them directly.

It's not only in canada, when I travel, and not just me that see it, but most of the anecdotal stories I hear from my friends/ colleagues / relatives / and even the internet, have stories of these individuals acting poorly as tourists. I'm sure you've all seen or heard stories about these folks doing things like budging in lines, acting rude, damaging tourist properties and destination sites that would be embarrassing to say the least. they have been known to be very "inconsiderate" whenever they travel, whether they know any better or not, is not the point.

I do admit we all need to adapt to change, but not everyone can as fast as we all like them too, including canadians.



tons of people throw litter on the ground even if there's a trash bin 2 meters away.

i also explained why they litter. i don't think you understood what i meant. they do it because it's normal. not because they don't give a fuck. they don't know better.

westerners litter because they don't give a fuck. they've been taught since little kids not to litter, to reduce reuse and recycle, and the reasons why. They know better.

most of these chinese people didn't even go to school. let alone learn about pollution.


it's like getting angry at a kid for throwing food. they just dunno better man. and it takes time to learn. and realise that they are kids. they're kids to our culture. so what you gonna be? the teacher that kicks the kids out and tells them to learn it and come back, or be the good teacher that students look up to?
i duno about you. you should go to a non western nation and see how quickly you can adapt. you make it sound like it's like doing a kumon practice exam. they aren't another western culture moving here. they're from the far east man. literally the opposite side of the world, with literally completely different ways of doing things



you can also say the same thing about uneducated canadians, poor canadians living in poverty, homeless people, hicks etc.

I know some people that just never had a chance because they "just dont know better", it's like that movie Gone Baby Gone, if your parents were alcoholic drunks, crack addicts or deadbeats, and surrounded by degenerates your whole life instead of white collar successful people, there's probably a high correlation that you will turn out to be a deadbeat degenerate.

why not spend more money on educating these "low lives", what if we focused on educating these folks and maybe they will know better and maybe one day their kids wont be degenerates and can make something of themselves? they could be the next prime minister even. who knows? whose to decide that we should cater to these select few immigrants?

same goes for criminals, a lot of young petty thieves that grew up around other petty thieves have only known the life of a petty thieve and dont know any better as well. they may justify that what they are doing is okay, they need to make a living, who are they hurting stealing this or that? Even though they know it’s illegal and can get in trouble with the law, they don’t truly grasp the consequences or how they are hurting those around them. That’s all they known, that’s their standard because they have been around this their whole life, they have never been around good role models. While this is true that these thieves don’t know any better and I shouldn’t be kicking out these “kids” cause they don’t know any better, I don’t think I would welcome thieves with open arms into my neighbourhood.

even for hardcore gang members, you may justify their action of killing someone because that's just the way it is for them. they dont know any better? they have been around the gang life all their life that thats the only thing they know. They only know how to be a gangster. They have a “different way of doing things”


You can make a case that we should just focus all our energy on improving the people already here, that are not rich or poor, and are in the middle, and thus improving the majority, and hopefully our kids over generations will be better off. But it just seems we tend to cater to the wealthy, and the reality is, most of us average joes hate that. If society always cater to the rich, and the majority gets worst off, they will usually rebel, or have a revolution. Any policy that has that perception will generally be viewed negatively by the majority.

Also, why can’t we have our nation’s interest first? Im not saying we cant overall help other nations and the globe, but why are we not allowed to improve Canadians first. Why should we cater to other nations out there right now? We live here because we like our culture and values. Should we accept vastly different ideologies just because we should be the hosts? Who decides what’s wrong and whats right and what is acceptable or not? Right now, it’s usually the majority. I dont go to Dubai with my wife and have her wear bikini tops and tell them to adapt to me. We are a planet of vastly different ideologies and cultures and one can go to live where they want.



just like our country doesn't have manner classes for when you go to other countries. thats why us north americans have such a fucking bad rep when we go travel. cuz we act like fucking north american yanks and don't even realise it. foreigners hate us cuz we're just as fucking stupid when we're in their country.



I don’t know about you, but I get treated like a god when I go to very poor countries, they usually love you because you are a foreigner and are viewed as being in a better class, and also because you are a lot wealthier as well. Why does china hire white people to be the face of some of their companies? And get paid 10x as much as the locals and yet do less work?

And even in Europe, a lot of Europeans love Canadians for their laid back polite nature. I don’t think im xenophobic at all. I have muslim friends, buddist friends and friends from all color and creed. I respect other culture and have visited other religions temples and such as well. I understand what is acceptable in one culture may not be tolerated in others.
It really depends on what is to be tolerated and what isn’t. But I think I see what you are saying about being the bigger person and instead of kicking someone out, to welcome them and change them.

For example, if I believe that discriminating against gays is wrong. And someone makes homophobic comments, instead of kicking them out or ridiculing them, I should educate them on why being homophobic is not tolerated. But then again, other people may have different values on gay people.

It’s kinda like the whole Donald sterling thing against black people, should we have punished him? Or should we just say, hey what you said is wrong, racism is wrong and let’s try and educate you, or both? But by punishing him, aren’t we sending a message that that behaviour is not tolerated? I don’t know? Same goes for being inconsiderate by littering or hacking up a big gross not in the middle of a mall? Do we let them do it first and tell hey, that’s not right, don’t do it? Or do we just allow people that don’t shit in public places in the first place, and maybe wait until more individuals that understand that that is not acceptable, and only then can they come in. as to not detriment the people already in the mall?

Overall I applaud you for thinking long term and if I assume correctly, your intentions of trying to improve the global society, but I just don’t know if I can agree, or even disagree with you as there’s different ideologies out there.

[falcon]

As of now, Canada is no longer the top choice for chinese immigrants anyway.

Aaaaand this is a problem, why? :suspicious: Let them take their dirty money and close mindedness elsewhere. Richmond is full.

[Manic!]

Aaaaand this is a problem, why? :suspicious: Let them take their dirty money and close mindedness elsewhere. Richmond is full.

http://www.collativelearning.com/PICS%20FOR%20WEBSITE/ACO%20expanded/other/nazi%20flag.png


If you are going to make a generalization about all Chinese I am going to make a Generalization about all Germans. What do you care anyways you don't even live in Canada?

[EvoFire]

are you chinese of culture or ethnicity. there's a difference.

born here, and i've always called myself chinese canadian. and regarded myself as pretty asian.

until i went and explored mainland china. then i realised, i am not fucking chinese at all.

it would be like a fuckin surrey jack being all fuckin indian pryde... then going to india and realising, the locals have nothing in fucking common with him. he is the least thing that is indian in india lol.

you're of canadian culture. but your DNA is asian. that's about it.

like a fuckin nikka saying he's african therefore he can hate on blacks from africa. lol bullshit.

you're as chinese as a black guy from the bronx is african.




are you two SURE of this?

who cares if they spend 80% of their time in china? i'm sure them or some extension of them (kids, wife etc) will spend at least 100k a year here.

and if they use our social programs???

you don't think that the rich wife and kids spend more than 100k a year? isn't that contributing more to the social programs than you guys are? i'm pretty sure the taxes they pay alone each year just in luxury goods covers more than themselves. i'm sure if we took them out of the equation, the social programs would be hurt monetarily more than if we removed equal number of normal canadians.

the second example where the man "divorces" his wife. wife gets social help but the man is still secretly footing the bill... that's a complex issue. you don't want canada to become like the fucking USA with its billion pages of RIDICULOUS tax laws.

it's a "problem" we're gonna have to just deal with. it is the cost of doing business you can say. the cost of accepting immigrants. we cannot control money outside our nation... i don't know the solution.. but the solution isn't to block the immigrants or to make our laws crazy like americans.



Holy crap you typed a lot.

I am of Chinese ethnicity and culture, I'd say pretty weak argument. I'm not born here so that throws your argument out.


We aren't blocking immigration, we are just removing one entrance method which almost exclusively brings in a crowd that are not popular with the general populace.

You can argue all you want about their "$100k" they spend here, but how much benefit does that "$14k" of taxes actually bring to us? There's a lot of other intangibles in addition to money. And some who works and contributes to the GDP is always preferred to some one who does absolute jack.

We aren't making an new laws, we are just removing some immigration pathways. We are dealing with our problems, I welcome immigrants who come in with legit investment or through specialized skills. Buying to be a Canadian? No thanks.

[Manic!]

Holy crap you typed a lot.

we are just removing one entrance method which almost exclusively brings in a crowd that are not popular with the general populace.



Isn't that what Hitler was doing. Getting rid of a crowd that was not popular with the general populace.

[Iceman_2K]

The Canadian government was stupid to cancel all their applications - they shoulda just stopped taking in any more applications after a certain date and then just grant the ones that were already in the pipe. Woulda brought more money into the Canadian economy than right out cancelling them. I'm surprised the government (both federal and provincial) has the face to continue its friendship and trade trips every year after scrapping the program in such a way.

[Mr.HappySilp]

The Canadian government was stupid to cancel all their applications - they shoulda just stopped taking in any more applications after a certain date and then just grant the ones that were already in the pipe. Woulda brought more money into the Canadian economy than right out cancelling them. I'm surprised the government (both federal and provincial) has the face to continue its friendship and trade trips every year after scrapping the program in such a way.

Why not? The Chinese loved us for stopping the program. Prevent people who got their money illegally from leaveing China and the Chinese gov have a chance to catch them.

Beside there are other investment program that rich people can still use to enter and obtain a Canadian citizenship. If the gov wants to ever open this program I think the limit should be at least 10million and 30% is non-refundable. Mind as well start selling citizenship and try to milk as much as you can.

[Manic!]

Why not? The Chinese loved us for stopping the program. Prevent people who got their money illegally from leaveing China and the Chinese gov have a chance to catch them.

Beside there are other investment program that rich people can still use to enter and obtain a Canadian citizenship. If the gov wants to ever open this program I think the limit should be at least 10million and 30% is non-refundable. Mind as well start selling citizenship and try to milk as much as you can.

Only 10 why not 50 or a 100 mill? I say we should milk them so much they have to be on ware when they get here.

[underscore]

It's canada's loss.

What the federal government had done was unethical, disgraceful, and very unCanadian-like. So whenever the feds need the easy money, they allow IIP, and when they no longer need $$$ they fuck everyone up by axing the program? fuck you. Many of the applicants had waited 8 years of uncertainty, during this period of time, many opportunities were foregone, time wasted not to mention tremendous capital losses. As of now, Canada is no longer the top choice for chinese immigrants anyway. There are more than a handful of countries that are willing to take in immigrants and actually respect the applicants unlike canada. it's all canada's loss :whistle:

You sound butthurt (and ridiculous). Just because we're Canadians and "too fuckin' nice" doesn't mean we'll let in any asshole who starts disrespecting our country before they even get here. So to quote the infamous Captain Jack Sparrow I have only one word for these people:

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/originals/8c/5c/11/8c5c11498013b61c5386bfbdd5057fc8.jpg

Even in the 60's the problem existed.

You do realize the 60's were 50 fucking years ago right?

Isn't that what Hitler was doing. Getting rid of a crowd that was not popular with the general populace.

Are you on crack? That's the stupidest connection I've heard somebody make.

[E-SPEC]

I wonder how hard it is for a rich British person to get into Canada?

We also let this British criminal into Canada.

http://voiceofniagara.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/conrad_black_mug_shot21.jpg
Remember him? Pet Cemetery.

[Carl Johnson]

The Canadian government was stupid to cancel all their applications - they shoulda just stopped taking in any more applications after a certain date and then just grant the ones that were already in the pipe. Woulda brought more money into the Canadian economy than right out cancelling them. I'm surprised the government (both federal and provincial) has the face to continue its friendship and trade trips every year after scrapping the program in such a way.

If by bring in money to Canada in the forms of buying properties and cars then I guess the IIP applicants fit right in. But if you mean by bring money into the Canadian economy as in creating jobs and generating tax revenues for our Canadian economy then these IIP applicants are not even close.

Simply lending $800,000 to the governments for 5 years is not worthy enough of a pathway to Canadian citizenship. At the same time these new well-off immigrants leeching off the healthcare and education systems with the breadwinner stay in his or her own country is not good enough either. Our country works largely because of income taxes. Just paying sales or property taxes along won't sustain the system.

We can either adopt the U.S. EB5 program where you invest in a company and create 10 full-time jobs or we let the immigrants/investors put their capital in start-ups and early-stage companies where VC funding is lacking at times. So can you lose 100% your investments? Yep, it sure can. But this is price you should pay if you to want live in Canada.

[Manic!]

You do realize the 60's were 50 fucking years ago right?





And my dad arrived in 68.

I can see it right now a family planing to come to Canada. Filling out all the paper work and following all the rules just to have the government change the laws without warning.

http://km.browncanada.com/images/gallery/archival/komagata3_l.jpg

[underscore]

And my dad arrived in 68.

I can see it right now a family planing to come to Canada. Filling out all the paper work and following all the rules just to have the government change the laws without warning.

http://km.browncanada.com/images/gallery/archival/komagata3_l.jpg

Because this clearly applies to everyone who was trying to immigrate here. The vast majority of immigrants would've have been using this program.

[Iceman_2K]

You know that a lot of these people were setting up companies that employed people right? That they weren't just buying properties and cars? There were lots of small businesses and companies that were either bought out silently or got infusions of cash that the everyday person doesn't see.

If by bring in money to Canada in the forms of buying properties and cars then I guess the IIP applicants fit right in. But if you mean by bring money into the Canadian economy as in creating jobs and generating tax revenues for our Canadian economy then these IIP applicants are not even close.

Simply lending $800,000 to the governments for 5 years is not worthy enough of a pathway to Canadian citizenship. At the same time these new well-off immigrants leeching off the healthcare and education systems with the breadwinner stay in his or her own country is not good enough either. Our country works largely because of income taxes. Just paying sales or property taxes along won't sustain the system.

We can either adopt the U.S. EB5 program where you invest in a company and create 10 full-time jobs or we let the immigrants/investors put their capital in start-ups and early-stage companies where VC funding is lacking at times. So can you lose 100% your investments? Yep, it sure can. But this is price you should pay if you to want live in Canada.

[Carl Johnson]

You know that a lot of these people were setting up companies that employed people right? That they weren't just buying properties and cars? There were lots of small businesses and companies that were either bought out silently or got infusions of cash that the everyday person doesn't see.

When did I say they didn't? You made the statement: "The Canadian government was stupid to cancel all their applications." It would seem to me you are the one who need to do more homework. Do you have all the data that the government have? At the very least government did a costs vs benefits analysis and concluded that on the whole IIP applicants' potential benefits to Canada was not nearly worth the costs (direct/indirect, visible/invisible) to our economy.

Majority of of the IIP applicants viewed Canada as a place to park cash and live comfortably. When someone is wealthy their first priority is to protect their capital not grow their capital. Although it is possible for some of them to start a business, I believe the odds are strongly against it when 80% of new businesses fail within the first 3 years.

[Mr.HappySilp]

When did I say they didn't? You made the statement: "The Canadian government was stupid to cancel all their applications." It would seem to me you are the one who need to do more homework. Do you have all the data that the government have? At the very least government did a costs vs benefits analysis and concluded that on the whole IIP applicants' potential benefits to Canada was not nearly worth the costs (direct/indirect, visible/invisible) to our economy.

Majority of of the IIP applicants viewed Canada as a place to park cash and live comfortably. When someone is wealthy their first priority is to protect their capital not grow their capital. Although it is possible for some of them to start a business, I believe the odds are strongly against it when 80% of new businesses fail within the first 3 years.


Just milk the hell out of these rich people. 10 million per person 10year lend to Canada gov no interest and 30% of that money is non refundable. So if you have a family of 4 that would 40million 10year and 12million is non refundable. With special terms such as if you are wanted in any country, Canada have the right to take your citizenship back and deport you back to your home country.

[Manic!]

Canada have the right to take your citizenship back and deport you back to your home country.

Maybe we should do that with all Canadians? instead of having a new second class citizenship.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Maybe we should do that with all Canadians? instead of having a new second class citizenship.

Of course we should if they are wanted in another country for criminal offense /or found guilty of breaking another country's law. Why should we allow criminals found guilty to live freely in Canada? Deport them to where they are wanted and let the justice system there determine if they are guilty or not.

[Marco911]

This class of immigrants were using the scheme to get passports of convenience. Education for their kids, Medicare. Most of these people know how to make money in China, not Canada, so their families leave for China after they're done milking the system. They have no intention of contributing to Canadian society by living here permanently, assimilating to Canadian cultural values and paying income taxes. Since there aren't tax treaties between Canada and China, Revenue Canada can't get a sense of the true taxable income of these families. Canada gets minimal benefit from these class of immigrants, which is the reason they scrapped the scheme. They take up valuable spots in schools/universities but do not intend to work here.

The other class of immigrants coming to Canada are the poorly skilled immigrants from 3rd world countries looking for a better life in Canada. While they are probably an initial drain on the system, they are willing to establish roots in Canada. Through education and hard work of trying to survive in a foreign country, they probably do end up contributing to Canadian society by moving from lower class to lower middle class or middle class.

The best class of immigrants are the educated immigrants from 1st world countries (Singapore, Hong Kong, Western Europe, USA) who are looking to establish roots in Canada. Due to their levels of skills/education they generally are able to thrive and contribute positively to Canadian society. Most of these people fall into the Upper Middle Class background.

[Manic!]

This class of immigrants were using the scheme to get passports of convenience. Education for their kids, Medicare. Most of these people know how to make money in China, not Canada, so their families leave for China after they're done milking the system.

And while they are here they are buying houses, cars, clothes, and pay taxes. At the same time the Canadian goverment is pumping a million dollars a day of tax payers money into east Vancouver to help a bunch of drug addicts and alcoholics. So who is the real drain on Canada?

[Marco911]

And while they are here they are buying houses, cars, clothes, and pay taxes. At the same time the Canadian goverment is pumping a million dollars a day of tax payers money into east Vancouver to help a bunch of drug addicts and alcoholics. So who is the real drain on Canada?

Houses are an investment, so it isn't money spent. The value of homes are driven up to the point that real estate in Vancouver is the most expensive in the world in relation to the average income of residents. Unless you're a property owner and rode the wave, the younger generation Vancouverites are completely fucked out of home ownership. There is such a thing as bad capital.

The cost of social programs for a couple of hundred drug addicts is a drop in the bucket. The objective of any country's immigration policy is to keep a growing population of vibrant young workers.

[Manic!]

Houses are an investment, so it isn't money spent. The value of homes are driven up to the point that real estate in Vancouver is the most expensive in the world in relation to the average income of residents. Unless you're a property owner and rode the wave, the younger generation Vancouverites are completely fucked out of home ownership. There is such a thing as bad capital.

The cost of social programs for a couple of hundred drug addicts is a drop in the bucket. The objective of any country's immigration policy is to keep a growing population of vibrant young workers.

365 mill a year just for east van is a drop in the bucket are you kidding me?!?!?! Also when they buy a house they pay taxes also when they sell. If you can't afford to live in Vancouver move somewhere else. This whole country was built on people moving to new places.

[multicartual]

And while they are here they are buying houses, cars, clothes, and pay taxes. At the same time the Canadian goverment is pumping a million dollars a day of tax payers money into east Vancouver to help a bunch of drug addicts and alcoholics. So who is the real drain on Canada?


Ship the DTES people to China, import rich asians


win/win

[multicartual]

the younger generation Vancouverites are completely fucked out of home ownership.


Yes but it leads to a lot of hot single chicks that sleep around because they know nobody can afford to wifey them without moving to a suburb! (Ugh)

[4444]

And my dad arrived in 68.

I can see it right now a family planing to come to Canada. Filling out all the paper work and following all the rules just to have the government change the laws without warning.

http://km.browncanada.com/images/gallery/archival/komagata3_l.jpg

what ethnicity are you? I ask because it will probably provide some insight into your anti-caucasian / anti-british views

prejudice, racism, and bigotry are wrong and stupid no matter who you throw it at

[Manic!]

what ethnicity are you? I ask because it will probably provide some insight into your anti-caucasian / anti-british views

prejudice, racism, and bigotry are wrong and stupid no matter who you throw it at

I'm not raciest I'm just providing actual facts unlike the people complaining about the Chinese.

[4444]

I'm not raciest I'm just providing actual facts unlike the people complaining about the Chinese.

i'm not complaining about the chinese, but you come on here and make offensive comments against caucasian british people.

most bigots don't think they're being prejudice

you didn't answer my question, either.

[FS1992EG]

It's canada's loss.

What the federal government had done was unethical, disgraceful, and very unCanadian-like. So whenever the feds need the easy money, they allow IIP, and when they no longer need $$$ they fuck everyone up by axing the program? fuck you. Many of the applicants had waited 8 years of uncertainty, during this period of time, many opportunities were foregone, time wasted not to mention tremendous capital losses. As of now, Canada is no longer the top choice for chinese immigrants anyway. There are more than a handful of countries that are willing to take in immigrants and actually respect the applicants unlike canada. it's all canada's loss :whistle:

I would like to hear the list of this countries that would take Mainland Chinese immigrants.

Please tell us?

[stewie]

365 mill a year just for east van is a drop in the bucket are you kidding me?!?!?! Also when they buy a house they pay taxes also when they sell. If you can't afford to live in Vancouver move somewhere else. This whole country was built on people moving to new places.

i can only hope that with your mind set, your future kids or grandchildren will be forced to move halfway across the country leaving you to never see them except for maybe 1 visit a year. forget about seeing your grandchildren either unless your willing to fly out to wherever they live..instead you'll get to watch them grow up on good ole facebook photos or whatever social media crap site there is at that time.

[FS1992EG]

365 mill a year just for east van is a drop in the bucket are you kidding me?!?!?! Also when they buy a house they pay taxes also when they sell. If you can't afford to live in Vancouver move somewhere else. This whole country was built on people moving to new places.

It's about middle income Canadian being displaced but rich immigrants. That's the issue.

[Marco911]

365 mill a year just for east van is a drop in the bucket are you kidding me?!?!?!

Where did you get that figure from?

Also when they buy a house they pay taxes also when they sell. If you can't afford to live in Vancouver move somewhere else. This whole country was built on people moving to new places.

The problem is Vancouverites can't afford to live in Vancouver anymore. When you have a large number of homes owned by foreigners that are kept empty and the real estate prices is driven up as a result, that's a problem. The cost of housing and rent negatively impacts corporations and businesses that want to move here.

[quasi]

i can only hope that with your mind set, your future kids or grandchildren will be forced to move halfway across the country leaving you to never see them except for maybe 1 visit a year. forget about seeing your grandchildren either unless your willing to fly out to wherever they live..instead you'll get to watch them grow up on good ole facebook photos or whatever social media crap site there is at that time.


LOL, you just described my life, my mom visits a couple times a year haven't seen my dad since 2012 though.

[Manic!]

i'm not complaining about the chinese, but you come on here and make offensive comments against caucasian british people.

most bigots don't think they're being prejudice

you didn't answer my question, either.

I post facts. You know what they use to call Italians? wops and you know why there are so many Irish cops in places like New York and Boston? Because no one else would hire them because they thought they were drunk and lazy.

i can only hope that with your mind set, your future kids or grandchildren will be forced to move halfway across the country leaving you to never see them except for maybe 1 visit a year. forget about seeing your grandchildren either unless your willing to fly out to wherever they live..instead you'll get to watch them grow up on good ole facebook photos or whatever social media crap site there is at that time.

I live on Vancouver Island were most people leave after finishing high school. That's life. Look at Skinnypup. He is from the same town I am and now lives half way across the world.

Where did you get that figure from?



The problem is Vancouverites can't afford to live in Vancouver anymore. When you have a large number of homes owned by foreigners that are kept empty and the real estate prices is driven up as a result, that's a problem. The cost of housing and rent negatively impacts corporations and businesses that want to move here.

I got that figure from the province news paper but I could have read it wrong.

The houses are empty so that means they pay property taxes but don't use any of the services like garbage collection and community facility's. So they are subsidizing the people living there. Many people that are wealthy own property in different countries. I know people that own houses in places like Arizona that only spent the winter months there. You have a problem with that?

[Lomac]

i can only hope that with your mind set, your future kids or grandchildren will be forced to move halfway across the country leaving you to never see them except for maybe 1 visit a year. forget about seeing your grandchildren either unless your willing to fly out to wherever they live..instead you'll get to watch them grow up on good ole facebook photos or whatever social media crap site there is at that time.

Because lower cost cities like Abbotsford and Maple Ridge are oh-so-far away...

And it's unfortunately part of life. Do you think cities like New York and London don't suffer from similar issues? My dad grew up in New York and was priced out of living in that city. Luckily he moved to the GVRD when it was still cheap as hell to live there, so buying a house wasn't an issue. However, now he's seeing his friend's kids go through the same situation he found himself in while living in New York.

[multicartual]

Because lower cost cities like Abbotsford and Maple Ridge are oh-so-far away...


Come on man, those places are absolute shitholes compared to living in Kits or Dunbar. I would rather rent4life than live anywhere but downtown or the West Side.

I know people in Abby and Ridge, property crime is crazy bad. Open prostitution, drug use. Meth heads race their shopping carts down Dewdney Trunk in the middle of the fucking day! Not to mention the culture, just look at how people dress out there.

Living among wealthy chinese who look down on you as a renter is far, far superior than living among white trash who reek of knock-off cologne, are covered in tats, drive Chrysler 300C's and have 3 kids by the age of 25 all by different women. Not to mention the plethora of Ed Hardy-esque t-shirts you see in Abby or Ridge, a clear indicator of 0 fucking class.

The DTES is a shithole but at least I don't have to talk to or see those people on a daily basis, where as if you went shopping in Abby or Ridge you'll be surrounded by the mediocre constantly. Downtown forces you to keep up with the Joneses, the success of others helps to pull you along.

My girlfriend lives on the West Side and along 33rd you can find an incredible amount of beautiful, huge houses with unkempt lawns. We took a walking tour in her neighborhood and found over 50 gorgeous places that haven't been lived in for what appear to be at least a year. My phone died or I would have got some pics of this one house that had 3 foot tall grass, haha. More power to those foreign investors, I don't mind renting as long as the rental costs price out trash from living in my neighborhood!

[multicartual]

I would rather feel alienated when I see an asian drive by in a nice car on the way to his beautiful west side home; than feel welcome and among my people while living in Maple Ridge surrounded by white trash.

The former inspires, the latter anchors.

[scottsman]

Having a Vacation home in Arizona is not the same thing as someone trying to move Capital to another country in order to hide their wealth. Or in another scenario simply investing in house/property with no intention to live in it.

The high property prices are not only affecting White people but people of all backgrounds. I have a lot of friends that moved to Vancouver from Hong Kong around 1990 - 97 and they are having a hard time finding a way to own a home/apartment.

[godwin]

You do realize the reason why Canadian gov is so reluctant with foreign asset declaration (btw it is "voluntary") and cross border taxation rules is because most people who contribute to politicians have the hand in it, regardless of colour or creed.

A lot of Canadians especially the top 10%, use shelters like BVI. I think the Liberal aired the ideas once and it got shot down so quick. So we ourselves as Canadians do hide our wealth from our own government when we can afford it.

Having a Vacation home in Arizona is not the same thing as someone trying to move Capital to another country in order to hide their wealth. Or in another scenario simply investing in house/property with no intention to live in it.

The high property prices are not only affecting White people but people of all backgrounds. I have a lot of friends that moved to Vancouver from Hong Kong around 1990 - 97 and they are having a hard time finding a way to own a home/apartment.

[Manic!]

Having a Vacation home in Arizona is not the same thing as someone trying to move Capital to another country in order to hide their wealth. Or in another scenario simply investing in house/property with no intention to live in it.

The high property prices are not only affecting White people but people of all backgrounds. I have a lot of friends that moved to Vancouver from Hong Kong around 1990 - 97 and they are having a hard time finding a way to own a home/apartment.

So it was o.k. for your friends to move from Hongkong/China drive up prices in the 90's but it's not o.k. for new people to do that. People had the same complaints in the 90's. If it was up to many people on R.S. your friends would not be here. I also know people that bought property in the states as a pure investment. Anything wrong with that?

If you want to talk about bribery, corruption, and hiding money you can talk about Canada's very own snc lavalin.

[underscore]

So it was o.k. for your friends to move from Hongkong/China drive up prices in the 90's but it's not o.k. for new people to do that.

The difference is, they actually moved here and stayed here. And people are still welcome to move here and stay here. They're just removing a loophole that let rich fucks jump the line to abuse the system.

[Carl Johnson]

So it was o.k. for your friends to move from Hongkong/China drive up prices in the 90's but it's not o.k. for new people to do that. People had the same complaints in the 90's. If it was up to many people on R.S. your friends would not be here. I also know people that bought property in the states as a pure investment. Anything wrong with that?

If you want to talk about bribery, corruption, and hiding money you can talk about Canada's very own snc lavalin.

The problem is not about people buying properties but it's about people using the IIP and coming here to buy properties without being 100% committed to Canadian's way of life. In the process the wealthy immigrants grossly inflated Vancouver's property price beyond any economic fundamentals (income/jobs/trade) would have Vancouver real estate priced at.

The upshot to me is that I think the RE price increases is probably a short-term phenomenon. The last few years of excessive gain will probably give most of it back or more in the next few years. Do I count on it? No. At the end of day I only care about affordability. And Vancouver is grossly inadequate in that respect. Moving out of this province is real possibility depending on how things unfold.

[westopher]

I think this has gone so far off topic due to people accusing of rampant racism. I'm glad the investor program is nixed, because I believe no one should be able to BUY citizenship. Its the most disgusting class separation in such an obvious way. Is it because I don't want asian people here? Fuck no! Some of my friends are chinese, viet, white, black and whateverthefuckelse. I don't want rich FOBs waltzing in here because they bought a canadian passport with no interest in being a canadian citizen because they need to hide their money from a corrupt government. I don't want some rich oil money motherfucker coming in here and thinking this country is their personal playground without needing to respect our laws, or our citizens. While not everyone who used this program is guilty of such, the premise behind the fact that we were willing to sell our citizenship is disgusting.

This has nothing to do with race for me, it has to do with the fact that someone with 800k to spare can walk into this country while offering nothing else, while someone who wants to leave their country due to racism, sexism, religious persecution, etc, can't get citizenship.

[R. Mutt]

^well said. Not to mention people who have migrated from other countries (like myself, coworkers and friends in the VFX and film industry) who are here on a work permit but have been contributing to the economy for years, paying into the system busting their ass have to go through more loops and a longer wait time in order to become a permanent resident. I love this place and the way of life here. I'd love nothing more than some security from an immigration standpoint but people like myself come second to those who can afford to be put first. I have to say though: Canada's immigration system is miles better than the US. Unless you can afford a lawyer or a company really want you, you're basically fucked. I payed into the educational system and when the economy crashed in 2009 I pretty much lost any opportunity to stay in the US after my post grad work permit expired.

It's greed that brought about that loop hole. The government gets a quick rate of return but the compromise is you lose out on some the young, intelligent workforce that would help the economy for years to come. Canada has an aging workforce and recent immigration reform has sought to change that via the Canadian experience class whereby young professionals can potentially gain permanent residency within a year if they meet the prerequisites.

[Manic!]

The problem is not about people buying properties but it's about people using the IIP and coming here to buy properties without being 100% committed to Canadian's way of life.


You do know you can by property in foreign country without being a citizen right?

[Tone Loc]

I think this has gone so far off topic due to people accusing of rampant racism. I'm glad the investor program is nixed, because I believe no one should be able to BUY citizenship. Its the most disgusting class separation in such an obvious way. Is it because I don't want asian people here? Fuck no! Some of my friends are chinese, viet, white, black and whateverthefuckelse. I don't want rich FOBs waltzing in here because they bought a canadian passport with no interest in being a canadian citizen because they need to hide their money from a corrupt government. I don't want some rich oil money motherfucker coming in here and thinking this country is their personal playground without needing to respect our laws, or our citizens. While not everyone who used this program is guilty of such, the premise behind the fact that we were willing to sell our citizenship is disgusting.

This has nothing to do with race for me, it has to do with the fact that someone with 800k to spare can walk into this country while offering nothing else, while someone who wants to leave their country due to racism, sexism, religious persecution, etc, can't get citizenship.

Thank you for getting this thread back on track... I don't know why or how everyone started jumping to conclusions about stupid things like "racism" or "discrimination' in the first place. I don't see it as being "racist" when I believe that NOBODY, regardless of race, color, ethnicity, or social class, should be able to BUY citizenship to a first-world country. It sends a bad message to both foreigners and citizens. Maybe I am just biased because everyone in my family had to work very hard and wait a long time to come to Canada from the Philippines - and had to deal with hard times in Canada as well before they "came up" socioeconomically - but the fact remains that it simply isn't fair for someone to be let in to Canada with relaxed standards/regulations simply because they have more money in their pocket than the next guy and are willing to spend it.

[scottsman]

So it was o.k. for your friends to move from Hongkong/China drive up prices in the 90's but it's not o.k. for new people to do that. People had the same complaints in the 90's. If it was up to many people on R.S. your friends would not be here. I also know people that bought property in the states as a pure investment. Anything wrong with that?

If you want to talk about bribery, corruption, and hiding money you can talk about Canada's very own snc lavalin.

Who started to talk about any of those things?? Instead of reading and understanding you just post back in such an emotional way it is clear you've got a chip on your shoulder about this issue.

The difference with many of the people that I know who came in the 90's is that they came here and called Canada their home. Living, working, studying, etc... Either both or one of their parents purchased at least 1 home, had jobs and contributed to our society in a meaningful way.

Having these kind of people come to Canada is a great thing and also was a great experience for people already living here to know about new cultures. Many of the things we love about Vancouver would not be possible if these people did not move here. I am sure that most people who post on RS or live in Vancouver are pretty thankful we live in such a mixed culture society with almost every culture, color, race in the World represented in our city.

As others have said, this program essentially allowed people with enough money to buy the right to come to Canada/Citizenship. If I was and immigrant that came to Canada another way and had to put in years to achieve this I would be pretty pissed off.

[FS1992EG]

The economic benefits of these immigrants are not favorable with Canada and our social values.

Money talks but doesn't ultimately get you whatever you want. No matter how much money that is paid to gain citizenship.

I'm in favor of immigrants that are from war torn areas, these people are much more likely to assimilate in to Canadian society and evolve their culture, mixing it with the Canadian way of life.

Rich people tend to have a "I'm better than you mentality" just because they have more money than others.

[RFlush]

The difference with many of the people that I know who came in the 90's is that they came here and called Canada their home. Living, working, studying, etc... Either both or one of their parents purchased at least 1 home, had jobs and contributed to our society in a meaningful way.

Having these kind of people come to Canada is a great thing and also was a great experience for people already living here to know about new cultures. Many of the things we love about Vancouver would not be possible if these people did not move here. I am sure that most people who post on RS or live in Vancouver are pretty thankful we live in such a mixed culture society with almost every culture, color, race in the World represented in our city.

As others have said, this program essentially allowed people with enough money to buy the right to come to Canada/Citizenship. If I was and immigrant that came to Canada another way and had to put in years to achieve this I would be pretty pissed off.

Well to be fair, you don't know for certain that these rich migrants are only investing in Canada and not actually living here. Their families and even they themselves might be living here, working, studying etc. How can you assume that they are any worse than those from HK during the 90's? Given the fact that you see mandarin influence more and more, isn't that a sign that they are staying and trying to make Canada their home?

Also, for those HK immigrants who moved to Canada, many of them or their children are moving back to HK:

Chinese-Canadians lured back to Hong Kong by better job prospects | National Post (http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/27/chinese-canadians-lured-back-to-hong-kong-by-better-job-prospects/)

From Hong Kong to Canada and back: the migrants who came home from home | South China Morning Post (http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1247617/hk-vancouver-and-back-migrants-who-came-home-home)

[godwin]

I think we need diversity and better data and followup... but knowing how the government works.. it will all talk but no enforcement since we can't afford it. I don't know if getting pissed off at others for get something you worked hard for easier is the greatest outlook in life. There is always someone brighter, smarter, richer than you.

Honestly I think it should be a bid system and the people need to make a solid business case for convince Canada if there is a route like that.

However the issue is even this route is closed, there are still tons of ways for the rich to get here. This just happens to be the path of least resistance and least obtuse, vs apply to Quebec for basically the same plan but settle in Vancouver after landing.


If I was and immigrant that came to Canada another way and had to put in years to achieve this I would be pretty pissed off.

[godwin]

And with what's happening in HK, a lot of them are thinking moving back too? Don't forget property in HK appreciated a lot more than relative to Vancouver.. imagine the increase in demand and prices.

Freedom of movement is part of Canadian Charter of Rights.. I don't think you can (or want to) limit that.

Life is full of compromises.. so are laws. Easier to live and let live.


Also, for those HK immigrants who moved to Canada, many of them or their children are moving back to HK:

[Lomac]

Come on man, those places are absolute shitholes compared to living in Kits or Dunbar. I would rather rent4life than live anywhere but downtown or the West Side.

I know people in Abby and Ridge, property crime is crazy bad. Open prostitution, drug use. Meth heads race their shopping carts down Dewdney Trunk in the middle of the fucking day! Not to mention the culture, just look at how people dress out there.

Living among wealthy chinese who look down on you as a renter is far, far superior than living among white trash who reek of knock-off cologne, are covered in tats, drive Chrysler 300C's and have 3 kids by the age of 25 all by different women. Not to mention the plethora of Ed Hardy-esque t-shirts you see in Abby or Ridge, a clear indicator of 0 fucking class.

The DTES is a shithole but at least I don't have to talk to or see those people on a daily basis, where as if you went shopping in Abby or Ridge you'll be surrounded by the mediocre constantly. Downtown forces you to keep up with the Joneses, the success of others helps to pull you along.

My girlfriend lives on the West Side and along 33rd you can find an incredible amount of beautiful, huge houses with unkempt lawns. We took a walking tour in her neighborhood and found over 50 gorgeous places that haven't been lived in for what appear to be at least a year. My phone died or I would have got some pics of this one house that had 3 foot tall grass, haha. More power to those foreign investors, I don't mind renting as long as the rental costs price out trash from living in my neighborhood!

I'm not saying Abbotsford or Maple Ridge are great cities to live in. Personally, after living in YT for a few months, you couldn't pay me to live anywhere DT Vancouver ever again. It's just not my cup of tea. That said, I know people on here don't like living in suburbia or anywhere near farm land.

However, the argument that people are being priced out of BC is simply not true. THAT is what my point was.

[multicartual]

Cash will always, always rule

The poor will always, always get fucked!

[SkinnyPupp]

Well to be fair, you don't know for certain that these rich migrants are only investing in Canada and not actually living here. Their families and even they themselves might be living here, working, studying etc. How can you assume that they are any worse than those from HK during the 90's? Given the fact that you see mandarin influence more and more, isn't that a sign that they are staying and trying to make Canada their home?

Also, for those HK immigrants who moved to Canada, many of them or their children are moving back to HK:

Chinese-Canadians lured back to Hong Kong by better job prospects | National Post (http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/27/chinese-canadians-lured-back-to-hong-kong-by-better-job-prospects/)

From Hong Kong to Canada and back: the migrants who came home from home | South China Morning Post (http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1247617/hk-vancouver-and-back-migrants-who-came-home-home)
I bet those people are all glad they have Canadian citizenship right now, because there's going to be a mass exodus in the coming years.

[GLOW]

mass exodus of HK?

[SkinnyPupp]

mass exodus of HK?
If you remember, that's why there was such a huge influx of immigrants in the mid 90's. People weren't sure how PRC would treat Hong Kong, and whether the "2 systems 1 country" would work and be honored.. It turned out to seemingly work for quite some time. PRC was basically trying to "woo" Taiwan with the system.

But then they did an about-face on the policies about 5 years ago. It was gradual at first, but now it's getting worse and worse. There are parts of Basic Law that aren't being upheld at all, and the forced cultural influence is taking place at a rapidly increasing pace. The press is being controlled, the media is being controlled, pop culture is being controlled. Even the border is being softened, not just letting in tourists, but now they are planning a development at the border that allows mainland people to live in Hong Kong without a visa at all. The backlash is growing, to the point where the usual July 1 protest drew the biggest crowd ever (over 500,000 people marched).

Since there's really nothing that can be done, it's just going to get worse. People who can leave will leave, unless they are in a position where a mainland-like Hong Kong is beneficial to them (there are plenty of people who don't really care, especially people who care about money more than anything else).

It has really been crazy watching all this happen over the last 10 years. The changes were subtle at first, but are becoming more profound. Now a lot of people I talk to are considering leaving, because they see that it's only going to get worse, not better. If the influence continues at this exponential rate, it's going to be sooner than later.

So yeah, there will be a mass exodus, similar to the mid-90's. I hope Canada and other countries can be welcoming not just to the 'rich people' but those seeking a better life now that theirs is being ruined. As is being discussed in this thread, this is typically a "better" immigrant, as they are moving for cultural reasons rather than monetary reasons. I have no immediate plans to move back, but I definitely will once Hong Kong stops being Hong Kong (and this is inevitable).

[RFlush]

I bet those people are all glad they have Canadian citizenship right now, because there's going to be a mass exodus in the coming years.

Ya which makes it sickening seeing how people in Hong Kong want to fight for their rights, yet the first sign of trouble, they flee HK without trying to protect it.

But then again, it just proves to the point that people from HK are no different than those from Mainland or from anywhere else in the world. People will always act in their own self interest. People in HK complain about mainlanders invading HK, or people in Canada complained about (in the 90s) Hongers going to Canada and now Mainlanders going to Canada, but it's all the same. If shit happens in China, Mainlanders flee. If shit happens in Hong Kong, Hongers flee. If shit ever happens in Canada, people will flee as well (hence lots of "Canadians" returning to Hong Kong due to a better job market.

In the end, no matter what you look like, where you are from, we are all humans and we all think the same.

[scottsman]

Well to be fair, you don't know for certain that these rich migrants are only investing in Canada and not actually living here. Their families and even they themselves might be living here, working, studying etc. How can you assume that they are any worse than those from HK during the 90's? Given the fact that you see mandarin influence more and more, isn't that a sign that they are staying and trying to make Canada their home?

Also, for those HK immigrants who moved to Canada, many of them or their children are moving back to HK:

I completely agree with this. I have many friends who moved back to Hong Kong because the job market was better. But I also have lots of friends who moved to other places around the world because the job market is better so it just proves that the job market in Vancouver sucks? I myself have not been a resident of Canada for roughly 8 years because of job opportunities available in other countries, so while I agree with what you posted it doesn't really mean anything especially when the amount of people working as an "expat" has grown significantly over the past 5 - 10 years. Naturally if you were from HK and you moved to Van I would expect you to look there as the first choice to work.

It is true that we do not know the intentions of the people who joined the program with the government. Some could decide to move here, others for investment, etc...

[scottsman]

I would also note that I graduated in 2002 at a school in Richmond that had a significant population of "Asians" from various countries. While a lot of people I was friends with have moved back to the country/city in which their family was from an overwhelming majority still live and work in in the Lower Mainland.

[underscore]

Well to be fair, you don't know for certain that these rich migrants are only investing in Canada and not actually living here. Their families and even they themselves might be living here, working, studying etc. How can you assume that they are any worse than those from HK during the 90's? Given the fact that you see mandarin influence more and more, isn't that a sign that they are staying and trying to make Canada their home?

It's a sign that more people are moving here, I doubt much of that influence has come from the rich few who used this loophole.

Also, for those HK immigrants who moved to Canada, many of them or their children are moving back to HK:

Chinese-Canadians lured back to Hong Kong by better job prospects | National Post (http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/27/chinese-canadians-lured-back-to-hong-kong-by-better-job-prospects/)

From Hong Kong to Canada and back: the migrants who came home from home | South China Morning Post (http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1247617/hk-vancouver-and-back-migrants-who-came-home-home)

So they're coming to Canada, using our education system and then buggering off. That's exactly what we're trying to avoid by closing the loophole.

[godwin]

Stephen Harper HAVE a position for you and your crystal ball in his pre-crime division. You and your apparatus are certainly sure about everyone and everything!

There is no certainty in life.. take a look at Mayor Moonbeam's pre political career, did he contribute much during his studies in Co?

I know a lot of you guys are still young, so come back to this thread after you have kids who are out and about.. things you are wiling to do for them. For Canadians, the world is our oyster yes, but we need others to show us how to be a global citizen and not to be "red neck" like our American neighbours.

Vancouver is just not a big city, especially where we don't have much manufacturing jobs, much less banking / finance jobs. Remember yes students get trained but the instructors got paid too! There are amazing number of teachers that actually trained in BC and are working in Asia.. guess why? No jobs here... and here we are short on people who needs to do manual labor, like rough neck, plumbing or other menial jobs.. I don't want to live in a society where people are dictated on what they do whether they like it or not.. that's not Canada. People come to Canada, not like it is heaven that they have everything handed to them, they still have to figure out life.

It's a sign that more people are moving here, I doubt much of that influence has come from the rich few who used this loophole.

So they're coming to Canada, using our education system and then buggering off. That's exactly what we're trying to avoid by closing the loophole.

[bing]

Ya which makes it sickening seeing how people in Hong Kong want to fight for their rights, yet the first sign of trouble, they flee HK without trying to protect it.

But then again, it just proves to the point that people from HK are no different than those from Mainland or from anywhere else in the world. People will always act in their own self interest. People in HK complain about mainlanders invading HK, or people in Canada complained about (in the 90s) Hongers going to Canada and now Mainlanders going to Canada, but it's all the same. If shit happens in China, Mainlanders flee. If shit happens in Hong Kong, Hongers flee. If shit ever happens in Canada, people will flee as well (hence lots of "Canadians" returning to Hong Kong due to a better job market.

In the end, no matter what you look like, where you are from, we are all humans and we all think the same.

What a crappy analysis. If only life were so black and white.

Somehow seeking a better life from an increasingly oppressive political system is the same as hiding ill-gotten gains or moving abroad for work.

[FS1992EG]

Ya which makes it sickening seeing how people in Hong Kong want to fight for their rights, yet the first sign of trouble, they flee HK without trying to protect it.

But then again, it just proves to the point that people from HK are no different than those from Mainland or from anywhere else in the world. People will always act in their own self interest. People in HK complain about mainlanders invading HK, or people in Canada complained about (in the 90s) Hongers going to Canada and now Mainlanders going to Canada, but it's all the same. If shit happens in China, Mainlanders flee. If shit happens in Hong Kong, Hongers flee. If shit ever happens in Canada, people will flee as well (hence lots of "Canadians" returning to Hong Kong due to a better job market.

In the end, no matter what you look like, where you are from, we are all humans and we all think the same.


I don't the same as you RFlush, do lump me into your generalize ideas on human thinking.

[RFlush]

What a crappy analysis. If only life were so black and white.

Somehow seeking a better life from an increasingly oppressive political system is the same as hiding ill-gotten gains or moving abroad for work.

In the end, both groups are looking to better their lives. You do not know the true reason of why people move to Canada, away from Canada, to China, away from China etc....but I can guarantee 100% that whatever motive is, it's to make a better future.

It's the same reason why people who are doctors in their countries, but willing to become taxi drivers in another.

[shenmecar]

Ya which makes it sickening seeing how people in Hong Kong want to fight for their rights, yet the first sign of trouble, they flee HK without trying to protect it.

But then again, it just proves to the point that people from HK are no different than those from Mainland or from anywhere else in the world. People will always act in their own self interest. People in HK complain about mainlanders invading HK, or people in Canada complained about (in the 90s) Hongers going to Canada and now Mainlanders going to Canada, but it's all the same. If shit happens in China, Mainlanders flee. If shit happens in Hong Kong, Hongers flee. If shit ever happens in Canada, people will flee as well (hence lots of "Canadians" returning to Hong Kong due to a better job market.

In the end, no matter what you look like, where you are from, we are all humans and we all think the same.

Uhh.........no we don't.

[underscore]

Stephen Harper HAVE a position for you and your crystal ball in his pre-crime division. You and your apparatus are certainly sure about everyone and everything!

There is no certainty in life.. take a look at Mayor Moonbeam's pre political career, did he contribute much during his studies in Co?

I know a lot of you guys are still young, so come back to this thread after you have kids who are out and about.. things you are wiling to do for them. For Canadians, the world is our oyster yes, but we need others to show us how to be a global citizen and not to be "red neck" like our American neighbours.

Vancouver is just not a big city, especially where we don't have much manufacturing jobs, much less banking / finance jobs. Remember yes students get trained but the instructors got paid too! There are amazing number of teachers that actually trained in BC and are working in Asia.. guess why? No jobs here... and here we are short on people who needs to do manual labor, like rough neck, plumbing or other menial jobs.. I don't want to live in a society where people are dictated on what they do whether they like it or not.. that's not Canada. People come to Canada, not like it is heaven that they have everything handed to them, they still have to figure out life.

wat?

In the end, both groups are looking to better their lives. You do not know the true reason of why people move to Canada, away from Canada, to China, away from China etc....but I can guarantee 100% that whatever motive is, it's to make a better future.

It's the same reason why people who are doctors in their countries, but willing to become taxi drivers in another.

A better future for their bank account perhaps. Again, they are still more than welcome here, they just can't take a shortcut just because they're rich.

[bing]

In the end, both groups are looking to better their lives.

Reminds me of the theory of psychological egoism, that people only act in their self-interest. However, it is an empirical theory and one of many theories.

You do not know the true reason of why people move to Canada, away from Canada, to China, away from China etc....but I can guarantee 100% that whatever motive is, it's to make a better future.

Perhaps, but I certainly can for a lot of people I know.

In the end, no matter what you look like, where you are from, we are all humans and we all think the same

Seriously? Have you ever heard of something called cultures? people ARE different in manner, speech, dress, experiences, etc.. no we don't all think the same just as there are many different religions and political ideologies.

Were all human guys, I guess the discussion is over.

[RFlush]

Reminds me of the theory of psychological egoism, that people only act in their self-interest. However, it is an empirical theory and one of many theories.



I certainly can for some people I know and I have a lot of examples.



Seriously? Have you ever heard of something called cultures? people ARE different in manner, speech, dress, experiences, etc.. no we don't all think the same just as there are many different religions and political ideologies.

Were all human guys, I guess the discussion is over.

So why did your friends move to or away from Canada? Was it to make their lives worse or better? Assuming it was their free choice to move, did they do it to make themselves happier?

I am not talking about what we learn, I thought you knew what I was discussing. I am talking about people's inherent need to try to survive and be better. People throughout history and different cultures have always tried to better improve themselves. Whether it be through education, art, or anything, people just want to be happy.

Whether you want to move to Canada to hide money or to live a peaceful life in Vancouver, or if you want to move away for a better job, or if you want to join the army to fight, you make those choices to make yourself happy and better off.

I am not saying that the investor scheme is right or wrong, I'm stating that people who wish to do it, did it to try to make their life better. Just like why your ancestors moved to Canada (assuming they chose to).

We can get upset with the system, but it's not fair to blame the people who tried to do it, legally.

I hope I made it more clear and simple for you understand now.

[FS1992EG]

So why did your friends move to or away from Canada? Wad it to make their lives worse or better? Assuming it was their free choice to move, did they do it to make themselves happier?

I am not talking about what learn, I thought you knew what I was discussing. I am talking about people's inherent need to try to survive and be better. People throughout history and different cultures have always tried to better improve themselves. Whether it be through education, art, or anything, people just want to be happy.

Whether you want to move to Canada to hide money or to live a peaceful life in Vancouver, or if you want to move away for a better job, or if you want to join the army to fight, you make those choices to make yourself happy and better off.

I am not saying that the investor scheme is right or wrong, I'm stating that people who wish to do it, did it to try to make their life better. Just like why your ancestors moved to Canada (assuming they chose to).

We can get upset with the system, but it's not fair to blame the people who tried to do it, legally.

I hope I made it more clear and simple for you understand now.

Are your from Hong Kong or is your family originate from Hong Kong?

[Marco.911]

I'm totally cool with the wealthy people coming to Canada. I say bring them here! They contribute way more to infrastructure and long term improvements over the average person.

What I don't like is poor people coming to Canada. I hate the fact that some people come here and fuck up our standard of living by having 30 people living in one house. Drive in a really wealthy neighbourhood and there are few cars on the street because the owners have their cars are in the garage.

Most streets in a lot of areas look like a fucking parking lot. It looks like shit. You have some families paying one house tax (school tax) but they have 10 families with 25 kids using the system which is a drain on the whole machine.

This is why some school districts don't have any money any more. Kids here are getting a shitty education now and it's not because rich people messed it up. Thank God and Jesus and Allah and Buddha for giving me a job that pays in the top 1%. I went to public school and sadly, because of the poor people draining the system, I will have to pay out of pocket for my children to have a decent education in private school - where poor people can't fuck it up.

The reason so many people are mad about rich people is because they're not rich!!

Poor people or average people say things like "BOO HOO, it's not fair that rich people pay less taxes or have access to tax loopholes."

Well, let's see. A family making $50,000 a year income might pay $20,000 in taxes. This is taking into account the tax included in gas, liquor, eating out, consumer goods, property tax, and income tax. This outrages average people because they feel that 40% of their hard work is being taken away from them.

Now a rich person makes $1,000,000 a year and pays $300,000 a year in tax because of some loophole that their financial planner and lawyer figured out or whatever. Maybe they are using a family trust to funnel money to their children. Either way, people get all pissed off saying "THAT'S not fair WAAAAAAAA!!!! They pay less % tax than me!"

One family pays $20,000 in tax, the other pays $300,000. Who is contributing more to schools? Who is contributing more to keeping people employed at starbucks? Who is building companies that allows someone to even have the CHANGE to have a job for $50,000???

You guessed it? It's the one making $1,000,000 a year.

You know what rich people think about poor and average people??

They think they're a drain on the system! You might think they'd think "Fuck, I pay all this school tax but I have to send my kids to private school and pay out of my own pocket? Why should I have to pay for these other kids AND my own kids? Fuck that shit. I create jobs that help dozens of families and they're bitching about me? Maybe I should just fire them all a month before Christmas.

The rich don't fuck with student loans which ties up money in the system, the rich don't fuck up a health care system (if they want something they pay for it and if they have to pay to speed up the process then pay they will).

The thing is, most rich people don't think like this. Most are pretty awesome! They are always looking for opportunities. They are looking for ways to make the world a fun, cooler, awesome place.

I remember reading about Rockefeller family and how the average people were pissed off because he was controlling the oil industry in the 1800's. The people were so pissed off that the government eventually had to step in to break up the monopoly.

Interestingly enough, at the time, his oil mining and production concept pushed the prices of oil down and kept it low, enabling many people to more easily afford oil (which back then was used for heating). He created thousands of jobs that made benefit to over 100,000 families.

I'm not wealthy but I work with wealthy people and I have to say they're always thinking about giving back and trying to help. You might not see it but it's true. A rich asshole benefits more people than a really nice poor person in terms of modern society.

Anyway this post is kind of random and doesn't really address the racism in previous pages. New money always acts fucked up. Chinaman or Whiteman. It's all the same shit. You give anyone $50,000,000 and all of a sudden morals go to shit. We all say "No I wouldn't do that!" Bullshit

You're telling me that your dating a girl that's probably at best a 5 out of 10 and now a team of 10's are begging you - BEGGING YOU to just have a taste of your nutsack that you're going to say no?

Bitch please. There is a reason every baller has a mistress. In China I was blown away, it's like expected that as a wealthy man you're going to have whores. It's like a privilege!! Even Tiger Woods and even Bill Cosby for fuck sakes got busted with that. It's because it's not popular but when the money comes, so does change.

People recently were complaining that there are too many micro escort massage places in Vancouver. Guess what? If there was no demand for that shit, there wouldn't be 3 or 4 in every condo!

You're trying to tell me you're not going to buy a new car? Live in a better house? Of course you would. Would you be so clam and patient? Would you take shit from your boss? FUCK NO!!! You'd be like fuck you Mr. Smith, and do a huge burnout in your Lambo and not even bother to clean out your desk because the $300 worth of personal shit you had there isn't worth it to you.

Money makes people feel powerful and successful because society tells us that. It is that feeling of REAL freedom that shows us who we really are.

And deep down, we want to fuck 10's, drive fun cars, eat good food and do the fun stuff that we want to do. Money lets us do that. In time, we get used to it.

The sports car novelty wears off - the whores are just boring - the big house is just whatever. That's why you see people that can make loads of money look for a higher purpose. They start to chill out and normalize and when they do they settle down.

As Ulic mentioned. China money is wild money right now. It will be that way for a while and there will always be new money. That's why true wealth, class, sophistication, is not earned by the size of the bank - account, it is earned by the power, impact and influence on making the world a better place. This in turn is the character of slowing down, being kind and all that shit.

But let's face it, that comes after you've had your fun - and right now, most of the money made in China is new and that's even better because they're going to blow it on Ugly fucked up coloured cars, clothes and all kinds of retarded shit that will drive the local economy. Stupid yes but beneficial to all, and in the end, they will learn either when they OD on drugs or as they and their wealth mature into older money.

[ae101]

^
your an idiot & i didnt bother to read your whole post

also this is a truth story, i know this person & her dads owns chun lan which makes air cons, motor bikes & etc in here china (company is huge & well know in china)

she came to vancouver for school & apply for student loans, after she graduated she left canada...........FOR GOOD PERIOD without paying any of those loans back

before we moved we use to get a shit load of her mail & calls from government asking for her, we told her she was gone & we have no idea where she is right now, fuck my dad was pissed as it was a friends friend & she just left like that

another one is my aunts sister, when she 1st came to canada from hk she was quite modest, but after a year or 2 she became cocky as fuck cuz she would lie on her taxes & what not just to get low income status but in fact shes not

i know ppl lie on taxes but shes just way over board & to avoid getting caught she uses cash 90% of the time, this is why the last time my family saw them was at my cousins wedding which we were force to invite as she thinks our part of the family are just poor losers

alot of mainlanders right now are in canada have money but are not contributing to canada & they are using are services, i dont mind rich mainlanders (or rich ppl in general) i just hate the those that borrow money from the goverment or uses our services but give nothing back in return (EG: borrow student loans but never paying them back period)

[SkinnyPupp]

:derp:
I don't care if a person is rich or poor, as long as they're not like you

[ImportPsycho]

unconfirmed source at my daughter's daycare, have said many of the parents there get childcare subsidy because they don't have job
And yet they all drive around in landrovers and MLs....
:suspicious:

[Mr.HappySilp]

unconfirmed source at my daughter's daycare, have said many of the parents there get childcare subsidy because they don't have job
And yet they all drive around in landrovers and MLs....
:suspicious:

That's a major issue right now. You see tons of ppl are consider low income so they are getting free health care, free daycare etc etc is because they don't work. Well THEY DON'T NEED TO WORK COZ they are fucking rich lol. They have business elsewhere and isn't reporting it or have one family member working offshore and that person is not a Canadian citizen so doesn't have to pay tax or report it.

A better way to see if you are rich or poor is simply take a look at major purchase (IE house). If you can afford to buy a 2million house and pay 5k tax every year then you sure have money coming to you elsewhere. If you are truly low income there is no way you can afford to buy a 2million house or even afford to live in one.

[Fafine]

unconfirmed source at my daughter's daycare, have said many of the parents there get childcare subsidy because they don't have job
And yet they all drive around in landrovers and MLs....
:suspicious:

the struggle

[geeknerd]

That's a major issue right now. You see tons of ppl are consider low income so they are getting free health care, free daycare etc etc is because they don't work. Well THEY DON'T NEED TO WORK COZ they are fucking rich lol. They have business elsewhere and isn't reporting it or have one family member working offshore and that person is not a Canadian citizen so doesn't have to pay tax or report it.

A better way to see if you are rich or poor is simply take a look at major purchase (IE house). If you can afford to buy a 2million house and pay 5k tax every year then you sure have money coming to you elsewhere. If you are truly low income there is no way you can afford to buy a 2million house or even afford to live in one.

I know nothing and nothing but wouldnt the money they get from elsewhere be injected into our economy and balance out the losses?

[TOPEC]

u guys should camp out at casinos and watch mainlanders walking into those vip rooms with stacks, and i mean STACKS of $20 bills in a T&T plastic bag or those clear vegetable bags. they just openly walk arnd carrying stacks of cash and i bet u the government doesnt know a dollar of it.

[Mr.HappySilp]

I know nothing and nothing but wouldnt the money they get from elsewhere be injected into our economy and balance out the losses?

Maybe but there is not actual number to see if it does balance out. Sure they pay for a house and pay property tax. But then they get free health care (it also depends on their health conditions if they have seniors with same issue such as high blood pressure, kidney and diabetes, cancer etc etc.) Health care for a person with such problems cause tax payers at least 50k or more each year. If you have kids well free day care, free health care etc etc....... So in the end the property tax they pay might not even balance out.

That's why we have the super Visa now. Wants your parents to stay in Canada? Apply for the Super Visa. They can still in Canada up to 10 years but since it is a VISA Canada doesn't have to cover your health care, your pension, day care etc etc.......

[Manic!]

u guys should camp out at casinos and watch mainlanders walking into those vip rooms with stacks, and i mean STACKS of $20 bills in a T&T plastic bag or those clear vegetable bags. they just openly walk arnd carrying stacks of cash and i bet u the government doesnt know a dollar of it.

And they leave the casino without any of it.

[Manic!]

Maybe but there is not actual number to see if it does balance out. Sure they pay for a house and pay property tax. But then they get free health care (it also depends on their health conditions if they have seniors with same issue such as high blood pressure, kidney and diabetes, cancer etc etc.) Health care for a person with such problems cause tax payers at least 50k or more each year. If you have kids well free day care, free health care etc etc....... So in the end the property tax they pay might not even balance out.

That's why we have the super Visa now. Wants your parents to stay in Canada? Apply for the Super Visa. They can still in Canada up to 10 years but since it is a VISA Canada doesn't have to cover your health care, your pension, day care etc etc.......


Health care is not free.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Health care is not free.

MSP - Premiums (http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/msp/infoben/premium.html#monthly)

As long as your Net adjusted income is less 22k basically you get free health care. So basically if you don't work then you have no income = less than 22k therefore free MSP.

[Gululu]

Canada the biggest socialist country on the face of this planet.

[meme405]

I'm totally cool with the wealthy people coming to Canada. I say bring them here! They contribute way more to infrastructure and long term improvements over the average person.

What I don't like is poor people coming to Canada. I hate the fact that some people come here and fuck up our standard of living by having 30 people living in one house. Drive in a really wealthy neighbourhood and there are few cars on the street because the owners have their cars are in the garage.

Most streets in a lot of areas look like a fucking parking lot. It looks like shit. You have some families paying one house tax (school tax) but they have 10 families with 25 kids using the system which is a drain on the whole machine.

This is why some school districts don't have any money any more. Kids here are getting a shitty education now and it's not because rich people messed it up. Thank God and Jesus and Allah and Buddha for giving me a job that pays in the top 1%. I went to public school and sadly, because of the poor people draining the system, I will have to pay out of pocket for my children to have a decent education in private school - where poor people can't fuck it up.

The reason so many people are mad about rich people is because they're not rich!!

Poor people or average people say things like "BOO HOO, it's not fair that rich people pay less taxes or have access to tax loopholes."

Well, let's see. A family making $50,000 a year income might pay $20,000 in taxes. This is taking into account the tax included in gas, liquor, eating out, consumer goods, property tax, and income tax. This outrages average people because they feel that 40% of their hard work is being taken away from them.

Now a rich person makes $1,000,000 a year and pays $300,000 a year in tax because of some loophole that their financial planner and lawyer figured out or whatever. Maybe they are using a family trust to funnel money to their children. Either way, people get all pissed off saying "THAT'S not fair WAAAAAAAA!!!! They pay less % tax than me!"

One family pays $20,000 in tax, the other pays $300,000. Who is contributing more to schools? Who is contributing more to keeping people employed at starbucks? Who is building companies that allows someone to even have the CHANGE to have a job for $50,000???

You guessed it? It's the one making $1,000,000 a year.

You know what rich people think about poor and average people??

They think they're a drain on the system! You might think they'd think "Fuck, I pay all this school tax but I have to send my kids to private school and pay out of my own pocket? Why should I have to pay for these other kids AND my own kids? Fuck that shit. I create jobs that help dozens of families and they're bitching about me? Maybe I should just fire them all a month before Christmas.

The rich don't fuck with student loans which ties up money in the system, the rich don't fuck up a health care system (if they want something they pay for it and if they have to pay to speed up the process then pay they will).

The thing is, most rich people don't think like this. Most are pretty awesome! They are always looking for opportunities. They are looking for ways to make the world a fun, cooler, awesome place.

I remember reading about Rockefeller family and how the average people were pissed off because he was controlling the oil industry in the 1800's. The people were so pissed off that the government eventually had to step in to break up the monopoly.

Interestingly enough, at the time, his oil mining and production concept pushed the prices of oil down and kept it low, enabling many people to more easily afford oil (which back then was used for heating). He created thousands of jobs that made benefit to over 100,000 families.

I'm not wealthy but I work with wealthy people and I have to say they're always thinking about giving back and trying to help. You might not see it but it's true. A rich asshole benefits more people than a really nice poor person in terms of modern society.

Anyway this post is kind of random and doesn't really address the racism in previous pages. New money always acts fucked up. Chinaman or Whiteman. It's all the same shit. You give anyone $50,000,000 and all of a sudden morals go to shit. We all say "No I wouldn't do that!" Bullshit

You're telling me that your dating a girl that's probably at best a 5 out of 10 and now a team of 10's are begging you - BEGGING YOU to just have a taste of your nutsack that you're going to say no?

Bitch please. There is a reason every baller has a mistress. In China I was blown away, it's like expected that as a wealthy man you're going to have whores. It's like a privilege!! Even Tiger Woods and even Bill Cosby for fuck sakes got busted with that. It's because it's not popular but when the money comes, so does change.

People recently were complaining that there are too many micro escort massage places in Vancouver. Guess what? If there was no demand for that shit, there wouldn't be 3 or 4 in every condo!

You're trying to tell me you're not going to buy a new car? Live in a better house? Of course you would. Would you be so clam and patient? Would you take shit from your boss? FUCK NO!!! You'd be like fuck you Mr. Smith, and do a huge burnout in your Lambo and not even bother to clean out your desk because the $300 worth of personal shit you had there isn't worth it to you.

Money makes people feel powerful and successful because society tells us that. It is that feeling of REAL freedom that shows us who we really are.

And deep down, we want to fuck 10's, drive fun cars, eat good food and do the fun stuff that we want to do. Money lets us do that. In time, we get used to it.

The sports car novelty wears off - the whores are just boring - the big house is just whatever. That's why you see people that can make loads of money look for a higher purpose. They start to chill out and normalize and when they do they settle down.

As Ulic mentioned. China money is wild money right now. It will be that way for a while and there will always be new money. That's why true wealth, class, sophistication, is not earned by the size of the bank - account, it is earned by the power, impact and influence on making the world a better place. This in turn is the character of slowing down, being kind and all that shit.

But let's face it, that comes after you've had your fun - and right now, most of the money made in China is new and that's even better because they're going to blow it on Ugly fucked up coloured cars, clothes and all kinds of retarded shit that will drive the local economy. Stupid yes but beneficial to all, and in the end, they will learn either when they OD on drugs or as they and their wealth mature into older money.

Wait, I know you got a lot of fails, but how many people actually read through this entire thing? I quoted it just so more people can read this cause it's hilariously entertaining.

[Mr.HappySilp]

^^ I read the whole thing.

[Manic!]

MSP - Premiums (http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/msp/infoben/premium.html#monthly)

As long as your Net adjusted income is less 22k basically you get free health care. So basically if you don't work then you have no income = less than 22k therefore free MSP.

MSRP's doesn't cover the whole cost. Even if you don't work you still pay GST/PST.

[Mr.HappySilp]

And how much GST/PST do people actually pay. Remember low income family can't claim part of their tax back as well.

[subordinate]

When I was reading that long post, I thought I was reading something from Multicartual. Then realized, wha, Marco.

[E-SPEC]

What a fucking moron Marco is.

[Lomac]

FYI, that's not the Marco... just someone else's account.

[MG1]

yeah, the dot gives it away

[Marco.911]

I think it's funny how everyone spends all this time failing me but they miss the point.

Wealthy people coming here has a greater benefit than average or poor people.

You can agree or disagree but the facts are what they are. One mainlander who lives in Vancouver pays $80,000 a year in property tax and still pays for his kids to go to private school.

It's the same family that recently purchased a $500,000 piano from Fazioli which was all over youtube for a while.

Take a poor family that pays $2,000 in property tax and sends 8 kids to the school system. If it's not apparent who contributes more to the system then paint by numbers might be your idea of challenging work.

[Marco.911]

^
your an idiot & i didnt bother to read your whole post

also this is a truth story, i know this person & her dads owns chun lan which makes air cons, motor bikes & etc in here china (company is huge & well know in china)

she came to vancouver for school & apply for student loans, after she graduated she left canada...........FOR GOOD PERIOD without paying any of those loans back

before we moved we use to get a shit load of her mail & calls from government asking for her, we told her she was gone & we have no idea where she is right now, fuck my dad was pissed as it was a friends friend & she just left like that

Your example is emotionally charged but not logical. You're talking about someone who's coming here on a student VISA I assume and not buying a home. If anything, your case would support someone being able to have residency in Canada, then at least they would be able to seize property or have recourse.

There are plenty of poor people that live in Canada that don't pay back their student loans. After 7 years, it's eligible to be written off. What's your take on the millions that Canadian's write off student debt annually?


another one is my aunts sister, when she 1st came to canada from hk she was quite modest, but after a year or 2 she became cocky as fuck cuz she would lie on her taxes & what not just to get low income status but in fact shes not

i know ppl lie on taxes but shes just way over board & to avoid getting caught she uses cash 90% of the time, this is why the last time my family saw them was at my cousins wedding which we were force to invite as she thinks our part of the family are just poor losers

So you know people lie on their taxes but with her you seem to be more upset. At what point is it not okay to cheat on your taxes? Is it after 10%? Is it if they make a specific amount of money?

She feels you are losers because of a wealth gap and you're pissed off at my post because it slams the poor and average.



alot of mainlanders right now are in canada have money but are not contributing to canada & they are using are services, i dont mind rich mainlanders (or rich ppl in general) i just hate the those that borrow money from the goverment or uses our services but give nothing back in return (EG: borrow student loans but never paying them back period)

I'm not sure what money rich people are borrowing from the services-sector of the Canadian Government. What services are mainlanders using but not contributing to? Do they not buy gas, cars, homes, and material goods?

You're still upset about your personal experience with your family friend. Again, this original post had nothing to do with students. Students can still come here and will continue to do so. Having people live here helps curb the very issue you're complaining about.

Are you aware that increased consumption of these goods contribute back into the economy or the government directly?

[Marco.911]

I don't care if a person is rich or poor, as long as they're not like you

Remember that when your future kids get a shitty education unless you pay for it. Remember it when every other system doesn't have money for you when you need it.

Poor people aren't funding infrastructure.

[Marco.911]

That's a major issue right now. You see tons of ppl are consider low income so they are getting free health care, free daycare etc etc is because they don't work. Well THEY DON'T NEED TO WORK COZ they are fucking rich lol. They have business elsewhere and isn't reporting it or have one family member working offshore and that person is not a Canadian citizen so doesn't have to pay tax or report it.

A better way to see if you are rich or poor is simply take a look at major purchase (IE house). If you can afford to buy a 2million house and pay 5k tax every year then you sure have money coming to you elsewhere. If you are truly low income there is no way you can afford to buy a 2million house or even afford to live in one.

This is a problem for sure, but there has also been some numbers run that shows that even with some of the gaps in social services paid, the consumption tax and property tax often more than make up for it.

I'd agree that the income tax issue can sometimes be a problem.

[Marco.911]

u guys should camp out at casinos and watch mainlanders walking into those vip rooms with stacks, and i mean STACKS of $20 bills in a T&T plastic bag or those clear vegetable bags. they just openly walk arnd carrying stacks of cash and i bet u the government doesnt know a dollar of it.

I forget the statistics but the casino's win rate is disproportionately higher than the patrons. I'm willing to bet (no pun intended) that the money lost in the casino makes up for any of the lost tax revenue collected.

[Hehe]

Yada yada yada...

All I read here is people arguing whether or not rich people deserves anything more than the ordinary folks. But fuck them...

IMHO, rich people already have more than the regular joe6packs. For the sake of argument, these Chinese immigrants (or wannabes in this case) do contribute to the society. However, their logic is fundamentally flawed. Many rich Chinese today got their wealth very quickly and their morality hasn't caught up with the rest of world. In Canada we believe people are equal, but yet because rich people in China gets away doing whatever they want, they should be treated like that in Canada too. :fuckthatshit:

This generates a major difference in value between them and Canadians. And the hate (as shown in many of these threads) between locals vs. newly immigrants emerged from those differences.

The fact is, these immigrants need to grow the fuck up and bring their sense of value to the same standard before immigrating to Canada. In Canada, we don't give special treatment if a person is rich (arguably, but you get the point). And a rich shouldn't expect to be treated any differently.

I came from a family that made it to the 1% during my mid-late teen... and has grown further since. But I have always been taught to RESPECT others no matter what is their financial/social status. And my parents never had the intention to pass on their wealth to us (me+brother) but instead teach us how to create our own.

My parents, given their financial power, should be VIP everywhere they go. But they live a very modest life, cook their own meals, clean their own house and line up to pay for bills and shit. Sure they dodge their taxes like crazy (all legal, but to a point that I find it questionable, morally speaking. Even when they pay high6/low7figures in taxes), but still... I respect my parents for their humbleness. But these Chinese immigrants feel because they are rich, they should be "VIP".

I think they should take a page from my dad: "Respect others, and they will respect you in return."

[Hehe]

This is a problem for sure, but there has also been some numbers run that shows that even with some of the gaps in social services paid, the consumption tax and property tax often more than make up for it.

I'd agree that the income tax issue can sometimes be a problem.

The problem is that, for a rich person like these Chinese are, they should feel responsible to contribute their share to the society.

I despite those who take social benefits while driving a RR everywhere. You are already rich, why not leave that resource to someone who truly needs it?

[synchrocone]

And they leave the casino without any of it.

Have not gone to the casino for a while but last summer noticed everytime you'd go to the restroom it is like a disease.

Its obviously indeterminate but there would be puddles of piss at the urinals all the time. In fact a couple times every single urinal had a puddle. I was forced to slouch over or use the cubicle. Dont really want to boast about my driving or polished dress shoes but if i step on the urine i basically am forced to throw them out. It has gotten better the last season but for a couple months i thought seriously about pushing someone, punching someone in the mouth and/or asking a rhetorical question to one of these guy's. I dont want to get a criminal record though because id like to travel some more. I mean it is all about numbers but it also isnt. It makes sense to pay someone extra to mop up the piss but still it dont make sense to me.

[Drow]

why hate on the china ppl

why not find ways to make money off them

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

all i gotta say is, unless you've been exposed to the ultra rich. you have no say.

you have no fucking idea.

morals and virtue are all tight and tidy until you know the truth.

all you guys bitching about equality and "the way things should be"

well guess what, things would be, if it were meant to be. but the truth is, money and power conquers ALL. including ALL VIRTUES AND MORALS AND IDEALS.

once you fucking get exposed to the lifestyle of FREEDOM. to do whatever the fuck you want, at a whim. you guys will be converted as well.

no one is immune to that shit. unless you're a monk. which you guys are not.

we live in a gangster world. a pyramid. the top leads the bottom. it always has and always will be like that.

we are the epitome of the animal kingdom. animals are the most gangster of all living beings.

and we are the fucking apex predator of that kingdom.

im really sorry to say... sorry, if you're poor, not only do you have no idea, but you have no say.

it will take 100,000 of the poor to even voice the opinion of 1 rich.

it's just the way existence is. i don't like it either. but guess what. ive accepted the way existence is. there is no changing it. the underlying problem is not ideals, not morals, not virtues.

the underlying problem is the way human beings are. human beings are the reason things are the way they are.

instead of trying to change it. fuck it, existence/god/whatever you believe in, a higher power, has dictated the way things will be. the order of things.

instead of trying to cover it up and paint it pretty.... just fucking submit and join the flow.

you mother fuckers always trying to ice skate uphill. good luck.

don't change the system. join it. you cannot ever hope to change it. you are just a fucking human being living in existence. the rules, laws, and order of flow have been dictated far before life even existed.

the cosmos dictates power rules all. join it. make money. cuz that's the only real power you'll ever have, second to brute force.

that is the only cosmic truth. power. influence.


complaining about fairness, virtues, morals... is the same as a kid complaining about fairness. you guys are fucking adults. you should know by now fairness is just a fairytale.

the world ain't fucking fair. climb to the top, or bitch about it. there's no in between.

Fairness is like expecting the lion not to eat you because you didn't eat him.

realise the people in power are lions. bitch all you want. they'll eat you regardless.


the real life matrix. take the blue pill, and you keep believing whatever bullshit you believe. take the red pill, and you see what the truth is. you get exposed to the hard truth of reality. take the red pill and you'll realise, money is the real world. the rest of you are living in some bullshit idealistic matrix world. it's fake. it's just to keep the average person happy and obedient, content.

it's very simple. stop thinking with your brain, and just look with your eyes and senses. look at history. look at man.
when have things EVER been different? instead of wishing, and hoping things were different, just look at the way things ACTUALLY are. go with the flow. you can never win fighting the stream of the river. submit to existence. or die a martyr of some bullshit idealistic fairness. no different than allah akbar. your virtues are skewed and inaccurate. there will be no justice. no 100 virgins for you guys. it will just be pain and suffering. regret. fuck that shit.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Division of Labour: Our tax system explained in beer.

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20."

Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?' They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.
"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got $10!"
"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!"
"That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"
"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/1917387_655606207951_653078_n.jpg?oh=2c4329fe75fb5 ed9ab22cf48792d34fe&oe=54E7B6EB&__gda__=1427530708_4d82e92c516100c12fdba57cee940dc 5

hey assholes, don't fucking bite the hand that feeds.

[Hehe]

well guess what, things would be, if it were meant to be. but the truth is, money and power conquers ALL. including ALL VIRTUES AND MORALS AND IDEALS.

See, this is where the problem is with rich Chinese immigrants. By having a more affluent/higher economic power doesn't and shouldn't give anyone a sense that they deserve more.

Why do the rich expect to have that? I consider my parents to be fairly rich and they don't go around expecting people to treat them any differently. This has been the exact same way when they were earning 5 figures in income like everyone else to now that they pay 7 figures in taxes alone.

And this is not just my parents... a few friends/partners of my parents probably makes 10x what my parents make (those who I consider ultra-rich) and yet they are all very humble and low profile. Moreover, the true ballers like Warren Buffett or Bill Gates don't go around and expect to receive special treatment. They receive special treatments because people RESPECT them not only for their financial status, but for their wisdom and contribution to the society.

Some Chinese immigrants just expect to have that same respect while making ZERO contribution to the society or anyone else. Worse, they leech on the public resources because they managed their way around the law. But this is a fucking disgrace given those people's financial power.

[Xplicit_EL]

all i gotta say is, unless you've been exposed to the ultra rich. you have no say.

you have no fucking idea.

morals and virtue are all tight and tidy until you know the truth.

all you guys bitching about equality and "the way things should be"

well guess what, things would be, if it were meant to be. but the truth is, money and power conquers ALL. including ALL VIRTUES AND MORALS AND IDEALS.

once you fucking get exposed to the lifestyle of FREEDOM. to do whatever the fuck you want, at a whim. you guys will be converted as well.

no one is immune to that shit. unless you're a monk. which you guys are not.

we live in a gangster world. a pyramid. the top leads the bottom. it always has and always will be like that.

we are the epitome of the animal kingdom. animals are the most gangster of all living beings.

and we are the fucking apex predator of that kingdom.

im really sorry to say... sorry, if you're poor, not only do you have no idea, but you have no say.

it will take 100,000 of the poor to even voice the opinion of 1 rich.

it's just the way existence is. i don't like it either. but guess what. ive accepted the way existence is. there is no changing it. the underlying problem is not ideals, not morals, not virtues.

the underlying problem is the way human beings are. human beings are the reason things are the way they are.

instead of trying to change it. fuck it, existence/god/whatever you believe in, a higher power, has dictated the way things will be. the order of things.

instead of trying to cover it up and paint it pretty.... just fucking submit and join the flow.

you mother fuckers always trying to ice skate uphill. good luck.

don't change the system. join it. you cannot ever hope to change it. you are just a fucking human being living in existence. the rules, laws, and order of flow have been dictated far before life even existed.

the cosmos dictates power rules all. join it. make money. cuz that's the only real power you'll ever have, second to brute force.

that is the only cosmic truth. power. influence.


complaining about fairness, virtues, morals... is the same as a kid complaining about fairness. you guys are fucking adults. you should know by now fairness is just a fairytale.

the world ain't fucking fair. climb to the top, or bitch about it. there's no in between.



realise the people in power are lions. bitch all you want. they'll eat you regardless.


the real life matrix. take the blue pill, and you keep believing whatever bullshit you believe. take the red pill, and you see what the truth is. you get exposed to the hard truth of reality. take the red pill and you'll realise, money is the real world. the rest of you are living in some bullshit idealistic matrix world. it's fake. it's just to keep the average person happy and obedient, content.

it's very simple. stop thinking with your brain, and just look with your eyes and senses. look at history. look at man.
when have things EVER been different? instead of wishing, and hoping things were different, just look at the way things ACTUALLY are. go with the flow. you can never win fighting the stream of the river. submit to existence. or die a martyr of some bullshit idealistic fairness. no different than allah akbar. your virtues are skewed and inaccurate. there will be no justice. no 100 virgins for you guys. it will just be pain and suffering. regret. fuck that shit.


stop talking out your ass. That is your own stupid opinion.

[E-SPEC]

Replicating someone's username is beyond pathetic, talk about wanting to suck someones dick!

[iEatClams]

I just find it funny that I have rich swiss friends (well their parents are) who live in west vancouver and are rich and powerful because their parments sit on boards and are execs etc. But they don't have any of the annoying shiet habits of the mainlanders. They are kind, generous people who have better manners and respect for morals. Maybe that's why they are more welcomed to our country than the mainlanders and their lack of morals and ethics. And seriously if you come into another country acting all high and mighty and not respecting their customs, of course they gonna hate on you.

[Manic!]

I just find it funny that I have rich swiss friends (well their parents are) who live in west vancouver and are rich and powerful because their parments sit on boards and are execs etc. But they don't have any of the annoying shiet habits of the mainlanders. They are kind, generous people who have better manners and respect for morals. Maybe that's why they are more welcomed to our country than the mainlanders and their lack of morals and ethics. And seriously if you come into another country acting all high and mighty and not respecting their customs, of course they gonna hate on you.

Or is it because they blend in because they are white and speak English?

[SkinnyPupp]

Or is it because they blend in because they are white and speak English?
You don't have to be "white and speak English" to not spit in public, not cut in front of people in lines, not barge through narrow doorways, not push and shove to get where you're going, not piss on floors in bathrooms, not throw garbage on the ground, or to not be a general nuisance to other people. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera

[Manic!]

You don't have to be "white and speak English" to not spit in public, not cut in front of people in lines, not barge through narrow doorways, not push and shove to get where you're going, not piss on floors in bathrooms, not throw garbage on the ground, or to not be a general nuisance to other people. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera

Isn't all that pretty common in China?

[Mr.HappySilp]

all i gotta say is, unless you've been exposed to the ultra rich. you have no say.

you have no fucking idea.

morals and virtue are all tight and tidy until you know the truth.

all you guys bitching about equality and "the way things should be"

well guess what, things would be, if it were meant to be. but the truth is, money and power conquers ALL. including ALL VIRTUES AND MORALS AND IDEALS.

once you fucking get exposed to the lifestyle of FREEDOM. to do whatever the fuck you want, at a whim. you guys will be converted as well.

no one is immune to that shit. unless you're a monk. which you guys are not.

we live in a gangster world. a pyramid. the top leads the bottom. it always has and always will be like that.

we are the epitome of the animal kingdom. animals are the most gangster of all living beings.

and we are the fucking apex predator of that kingdom.

im really sorry to say... sorry, if you're poor, not only do you have no idea, but you have no say.

it will take 100,000 of the poor to even voice the opinion of 1 rich.

it's just the way existence is. i don't like it either. but guess what. ive accepted the way existence is. there is no changing it. the underlying problem is not ideals, not morals, not virtues.

the underlying problem is the way human beings are. human beings are the reason things are the way they are.

instead of trying to change it. fuck it, existence/god/whatever you believe in, a higher power, has dictated the way things will be. the order of things.

instead of trying to cover it up and paint it pretty.... just fucking submit and join the flow.

you mother fuckers always trying to ice skate uphill. good luck.

don't change the system. join it. you cannot ever hope to change it. you are just a fucking human being living in existence. the rules, laws, and order of flow have been dictated far before life even existed.

the cosmos dictates power rules all. join it. make money. cuz that's the only real power you'll ever have, second to brute force.

that is the only cosmic truth. power. influence.


complaining about fairness, virtues, morals... is the same as a kid complaining about fairness. you guys are fucking adults. you should know by now fairness is just a fairytale.

the world ain't fucking fair. climb to the top, or bitch about it. there's no in between.



realise the people in power are lions. bitch all you want. they'll eat you regardless.


the real life matrix. take the blue pill, and you keep believing whatever bullshit you believe. take the red pill, and you see what the truth is. you get exposed to the hard truth of reality. take the red pill and you'll realise, money is the real world. the rest of you are living in some bullshit idealistic matrix world. it's fake. it's just to keep the average person happy and obedient, content.

it's very simple. stop thinking with your brain, and just look with your eyes and senses. look at history. look at man.
when have things EVER been different? instead of wishing, and hoping things were different, just look at the way things ACTUALLY are. go with the flow. you can never win fighting the stream of the river. submit to existence. or die a martyr of some bullshit idealistic fairness. no different than allah akbar. your virtues are skewed and inaccurate. there will be no justice. no 100 virgins for you guys. it will just be pain and suffering. regret. fuck that shit.

Let's give all the rich even more power!
Hey you kill someone? No worries nothing will to you coz you are rich!
Hey your son rape this friend? Not to worry nothing will happen coz you are rich!
Hey your factory just populated the Fraser river with deathly chemicals and nuclear waste. Now all the species in the river is dead and also no one can drink or even swim in it. But nothing will happy to you coz you are rich!

Even back in ancient chinese there is a saying "Even if the king broke the law he is trail as a normal citizen" So why do the rich Chinese they just coz they are rich they are above all moral value and above the law? Is it coz they are born asshole or is it coz the Chinese Gov don't care shit what they do.

[Nomomo]

So ulic how has trading been working? You obviously have no morals in the dog eat dog world. You in the 1% yet?


Division of Labour: Our tax system explained in beer.

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20."

Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?' They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.
"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got $10!"
"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!"
"That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"
"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/1917387_655606207951_653078_n.jpg?oh=2c4329fe75fb5 ed9ab22cf48792d34fe&oe=54E7B6EB&__gda__=1427530708_4d82e92c516100c12fdba57cee940dc 5

hey assholes, don't fucking bite the hand that feeds.

[Marco.911]

Yada yada yada...

All I read here is people arguing whether or not rich people deserves anything more than the ordinary folks. But fuck them...

IMHO, rich people already have more than the regular joe6packs.

Rich people would probably argue that it it better for them to have money than someone that's poor. They would argue that their money will be used to create jobs, raise the overall standard of living, and generate economic stimulus.


For the sake of argument, these Chinese immigrants (or wannabes in this case) do contribute to the society. However, their logic is fundamentally flawed. Many rich Chinese today got their wealth very quickly and their morality hasn't caught up with the rest of world. In Canada we believe people are equal, but yet because rich people in China gets away doing whatever they want, they should be treated like that in Canada too. :fuckthatshit:

Most people generally transition from nothing to significant wealth (I'm talking about $25 million + net worth and up) fast.

Bill gates became very wealthy quite quickly once he had a system to generate the money.

A story that's close to home is my dad. He worked hard from 20-40 years old. At 45 his net worth was "$x" and at 46, he pretty much went from rags to riches.

For most people it's going to be like that unless it's old money, at which point you're born into it and that's another problem - one that is not without flaws either.


This generates a major difference in value between them and Canadians. And the hate (as shown in many of these threads) between locals vs. newly immigrants emerged from those differences.

The fact is, these immigrants need to grow the fuck up and bring their sense of value to the same standard before immigrating to Canada. In Canada, we don't give special treatment if a person is rich (arguably, but you get the point). And a rich shouldn't expect to be treated any differently.

So which is it? A cultural problem or a monetary problem?

You're dam right the wealthy expect to be treated different. How many people buy clothes, cars, phones, sit in the bottle service section of the club because they want to spend that money and have something better?

The wealthy generally do expect better treatment and in turn, they are willing to pay for it - the currency of the world. When you spend $50,000 in clothes at a store and you just paid the sales person's rent for the next 5 months you bet your ass you're going to get better service. You can also bet that if I'm spending that kind of money, I better be getting some rock-star service.

Business in general works like that. Buy more, get a bigger discount etc. In a small way, even stamps on your bubble-tea cards work the same. Spend more money, get a free drink.

I came from a family that made it to the 1% during my mid-late teen... and has grown further since. But I have always been taught to RESPECT others no matter what is their financial/social status. And my parents never had the intention to pass on their wealth to us (me+brother) but instead teach us how to create our own.

Sounds like a virtually identical background.

My parents, given their financial power, should be VIP everywhere they go. But they live a very modest life, cook their own meals, clean their own house and line up to pay for bills and shit. Sure they dodge their taxes like crazy (all legal, but to a point that I find it questionable, morally speaking. Even when they pay high6/low7figures in taxes), but still... I respect my parents for their humbleness. But these Chinese immigrants feel because they are rich, they should be "VIP".

I think they should take a page from my dad: "Respect others, and they will respect you in return."

If your issue is with the Chinese, then just say so. Mainlanders piss me off as well sometimes too. It's not a mystery in Vancouver I don't think.

I'd rather a bunch of wealth people come from another country for sure but if you really look at most new money, it's like that. Your parents were probably the same as my parents. Chugged along doing their thing and it just built up over time and then it just exploded or hit a tipping point - or someone else felt they could benefit from it and offered a bunch of cash to take it over.

I agree with most of your points but wealthy people still (overall) benefit us more overall. Your parents also deserve to use lawyers and accountants to pay less tax.

The only reason we don't have a flat tax system in Canada is because a graduated tax system creates too many jobs for accountants and such.

[Marco.911]

Replicating someone's username is beyond pathetic, talk about wanting to suck someones dick!

The internet phoned, your name isn't original either.

Besides, what better way to confuse people than to pick a similar name that so many of you hate. It tripped up one person in this thread already :)

[Marco.911]

I just find it funny that I have rich swiss friends (well their parents are) who live in west vancouver and are rich and powerful because their parments sit on boards and are execs etc. But they don't have any of the annoying shiet habits of the mainlanders. They are kind, generous people who have better manners and respect for morals. Maybe that's why they are more welcomed to our country than the mainlanders and their lack of morals and ethics. And seriously if you come into another country acting all high and mighty and not respecting their customs, of course they gonna hate on you.

Look, if you think Chinese people are a piece of shit, just call it for what it is. No need to hide behind the wealth discussion. It's not racist if you can back it up. I'm not a fan of mainlanders either!

Most of my wealthy friends aren't from China either.

[Marco.911]

Let's give all the rich even more power!
Hey you kill someone? No worries nothing will to you coz you are rich!
Hey your son rape this friend? Not to worry nothing will happen coz you are rich!
Hey your factory just populated the Fraser river with deathly chemicals and nuclear waste. Now all the species in the river is dead and also no one can drink or even swim in it. But nothing will happy to you coz you are rich!

Even back in ancient chinese there is a saying "Even if the king broke the law he is trail as a normal citizen" So why do the rich Chinese they just coz they are rich they are above all moral value and above the law? Is it coz they are born asshole or is it coz the Chinese Gov don't care shit what they do.


There are countless people that have been absolved of crimes because of government connections, wealth and power. In fact, true power is when laws don't apply to you.

As for the wealthy getting a better shot - yup!

OJ Simpson anyone?

[underscore]

Isn't all that pretty common in China?

This isn't China.

[CRS]

After all these years on RS, you would think that Marco would have figured out how to use multi quotes.

[Hehe]

Rich people would probably argue that it it better for them to have money than someone that's poor. They would argue that their money will be used to create jobs, raise the overall standard of living, and generate economic stimulus.


Haha... if you believe this bullshit then I have nothing to say.



So which is it? A cultural problem or a monetary problem?

You're dam right the wealthy expect to be treated different. How many people buy clothes, cars, phones, sit in the bottle service section of the club because they want to spend that money and have something better?

The wealthy generally do expect better treatment and in turn, they are willing to pay for it - the currency of the world. When you spend $50,000 in clothes at a store and you just paid the sales person's rent for the next 5 months you bet your ass you're going to get better service. You can also bet that if I'm spending that kind of money, I better be getting some rock-star service.


Rich people expect good service when they are SPENDING money. Nevertheless, this is basic expectation that everyone, not just the riches, have when they are spending money. Heck, when I go to McD, I expect my fries to be hot and crispy no matter what time of the day. It has nothing to do whether I'm rich or not.


If your issue is with the Chinese, then just say so. Mainlanders piss me off as well sometimes too. It's not a mystery in Vancouver I don't think.

I'd rather a bunch of wealth people come from another country for sure but if you really look at most new money, it's like that. Your parents were probably the same as my parents. Chugged along doing their thing and it just built up over time and then it just exploded or hit a tipping point - or someone else felt they could benefit from it and offered a bunch of cash to take it over.

I agree with most of your points but wealthy people still (overall) benefit us more overall. Your parents also deserve to use lawyers and accountants to pay less tax.

The only reason we don't have a flat tax system in Canada is because a graduated tax system creates too many jobs for accountants and such.

I don't have problem with Chinese (I married one... well.. ex-Chinese). The only problem I have is that some of these Chinese riches just feel that they can use that Chinese crap that they are used to in China here in Canada. And when people say that they can't, they bring up this stupid argument of rich vs. poor.

The fact is, it got nothing to do with rich or poor. It's just they have a totally fuck'd up sense of value and moral. My parents and their friends are rich (some of them super rich... 8figures in yearly income), and they have none of these problems.

Just because you are rich, doesn't mean you are better. You have more financial power to do more stuff privately, buy nice car, live in a nice house... but that's it. When it comes to anything public related, you are just the same as everyone else. And while you are in public place, you should respect everyone else. I hardly see that is too much to ask.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

man you guys are so fucking stupid and narrow sighted.

think of it this way.

you move to china. you act the way you are, you hold doors open for people, you do all these things you think are completely normal.

people look at you like a fucking weirdo. why are u holding the door open? you don't yell at customer service people? why are you so weird?

what do you do? are u gonna give up those values and just "change"? no you're probably gonna stick to them and keep doing whatever the fuck you were taught to do when you were brought up.

now just fucking reverse the situation. they're just fucking doing what THEY think is NORMAL, and everyone is acting all weird about it.

You just tell them to change right? cuz it's just so "simple" to "be polite".

well if you went to china, do you think it would be so "simple" for you to just "act the way we do".

i still cant bring myself to yell at the service people there, yet if you don't they don't fucking serve or care about you.
i still can't help holding doors open for people, and they just fucking stare at me.

yeah, I CAN'T FUCKING CHANGE. and if i did, i would feel like a fucking asshole.

guess what, they're no different.

Ask any of your parents or grandparents to give up some habit they have of theirs. it's easy right?

your guys's definition of respect is different than theirs.

just like you'll have a hard time changing it, so do they. get a fucking clue.

they are the epitome of the east. their systems of cultural navigation are completely different down to the definitions of words. they are respecting you, they're minding their own business and not talking to you.

and like it's been mentioned before, it can be compared to if a buncha redneck hicks, suddenly all became multimillionaires. what the fuck do you expect would happen? suddenly they're all noble and fucking wearing tux's and they understand the use of every fork and spoon on the dining table?

no they're gonna be fucking rednecks with money. why would that change?

i feel north americans have a very fucked up perception of the mentality of an immigrant.

They're coming here for a "better" life, yes. better environment. but they're not here to become a "better person, a westerner". they're here to be whatever the fuck they were or want to be.

just like we would do the same if we moved there. their radiant stubbornness in not wanting to change, is exemplified by you guys hating here.

their sense of morals and values are not fucked. they're just very different. this is what u call culture clash.


lol what would u guys rather have? the mainland "problem". or what the UK has? the islam "problem".

the english are laughing at this "problem" we have.

look at how much vancouver has developed in the recent years because of economic drive and demand.

i'd still rather live in today's vancouver than yesterdays.

[Manic!]

This isn't China.

You tell me if you moved to a foreign country you would know all the customs of that country?

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

he would say he would learn it and change and respect the country's culture. lol.

i now live in the core of richmond. and i grew up in a white community.

the whole mainlander thing is totally blown outta proportion. yeah they're everywhere. no they don't all act like hicks.

i walk everywhere everyday and i don't even encounter one "mainlander thing" (like spitting on the ground) once a week.

you know what i found as a kid to be really gross and offensive? chinatown in the 80's.

richmond is hardly anything close to that now a days.

i doubt any of you even seen that many bad things. just a single incident and then you read it about newspapers and other people talking about it and you just all jump on the bandwagon.

i can think of so many worse things you guys should be bitching about.

[SkinnyPupp]

i doubt any of you even seen that many bad things. just a single incident and then you read it about newspapers and other people talking about it and you just all jump on the bandwagon.

All I will say is that no. Abso-fucken-lutely not :)

i can think of so many worse things you guys should be bitching about.

This I can agree with. Targeting people based on race or nationality is pointless. There are fucked up people in all walks of life. It has been shown several times in this very thread in fact.

[underscore]

You tell me if you moved to a foreign country you would know all the customs of that country?

You don't have to know them all, but you have to fucking try. At the minimum look at the people around you and be at least as polite as they are.

[MarkyMark]

Please, if you moved to a new country you'd figure out the customs pretty quick unless you decide to not leave the house. "Wait, why is no one else pissing in a garbage can in the mall?"

Catch the drift?

[iEatClams]

Its funny you say that, because this problem isn't just Vancouver specific. Other countries have tourists signs for mainlanders telling them how to behave. Even their own country has programs in place to tell them how to act in other countries. Like not peeing in public etc. Ever go travel to other countries, you see mainlanders disobeying rules, budging in lines, etc. Then you have the Japanese fans that clean up their own sections after a worl cup soccer game.

[Manic!]

You don't have to know them all, but you have to fucking try. At the minimum look at the people around you and be at least as polite as they are.

Hey, the Chinese are just trying to act like white people. Walk into a place, think think own it, and plant a flag. At least the Chinese don't go around talking about some dead guy named Jebus.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

you guys are so thick headed.

pissing in garbage cans isn't perceived as a universal "rudeness"

neither is spitting on the ground.

neither is holding doors open or saying please or whatever the fuck western polite ideologies you guys have.

they don't get it.

if you went to china and everyone was pissing on the streets would u start doing it? if you saw them yelling at service people like they were slaves, would you start doing it?

what the fuck do u guys NOT get about the definition of "polite" being DIFFERENT. in their minds they are being polite. or at least "minding their own business" which is the basis of politeness where they come from.

do you guys not... get it? you yell at them to be polite, all they think is "i am being polite".


surprise surprise, your western ideologies aren't global!!! OMG!!! WHO WOULDA EVER THOUGHT THAT?!


and no, you don't have to try to adapt. lol. it's obvious. i don't try anywhere i go. i don't expect anyone to when they come here. i don't care either. and i'm canadian.

i act the same way wherever i go. and they will too. wah wah wah too fuckin bad lol.

they're already here. and they're already doing it. bitch some more. i think they're listening real hard right now.

[underscore]

Hey, the Chinese are just trying to act like white people. Walk into a place, think think own it, and plant a flag. At least the Chinese don't go around talking about some dead guy named Jebus.

Your arms must be sore for all the stretching you did to make that post.

[MarkyMark]

I'm pretty sure places with plenty of nice clean toilets readily available don't have a public garbage can pissing problem. I'd embrace the lovely change of a toilet but hey, I guess when you've been squatting on the street corners long enough it's hard to get off that drug.

In their minds they aren't thinking that they are being polite, it's just that the word isn't part of their vocabulary at all. Don't get that mixed up.

[Manic!]

Pissing in a pot plant is a good call if you are white.

That's Just Good Banking - PC Financial TV Commercial Ads - YouTube

[SkinnyPupp]

surprise surprise, your western ideologies aren't global!!! OMG!!! WHO WOULDA EVER THOUGHT THAT?!


Sorry but that behaviour isn't acceptable anywhere outside your little circle or in your head. It's not about "western ideologies" it's about knowing how to function properly in a civilized society. That includes the west as well as the east and everywhere in between.

[Manic!]

Sorry but that behaviour isn't acceptable anywhere outside your little circle or in your head. It's not about "western ideologies" it's about knowing how to function properly in a civilized society. That includes the west as well as the east and everywhere in between.


You are 100% wrong. Most of the world is not a sweet, kind, and polite place.
When I was in New Delhi I saw a dead man laying on the street during the craziest rush hour I had seen. Cars just drove around him no one stopping to help. Also saw lots of guys crapping in buckets on the street.

[Mr.HappySilp]

You are 100% wrong. Most of the world is not a sweet, kind, and polite place.
When I was in New Delhi I saw a dead man laying on the street during the craziest rush hour I had seen. Cars just drove around him no one stopping to help. Also saw lots of guys crapping in buckets on the street.

Such a lovely scene why don't you join in then. You know to fit in.

[underscore]

You are 100% wrong. Most of the world is not a sweet, kind, and polite place.
When I was in New Delhi I saw a dead man laying on the street during the craziest rush hour I had seen. Cars just drove around him no one stopping to help. Also saw lots of guys crapping in buckets on the street.

Good for them, but this isn't New Delhi.

[AAnthony]

-----

[Manic!]

China and India are far behind the developed world when it comes to etiquette...

edit: :Popcorn

True, so is most of Africa and parts of South America.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

it just comes down to this

as technology advances, the globe becomes smaller.

it means your borders, or what you think is "normal" are gonna start being mixed with OTHER parts of the worlds. until it's just a big mix of everything.

your culture will be infiltrated and mixed with other cultures, you have no choice.
their culture will be infiltrated and mixed with other cultures, they have no choice.

DEAL WITH IT.

the globe is everyone's. there is no right or wrong as long as no one is being directly physically hurt.

some people like to spit on the ground, some people like to spit into handkerchiefs

some people like to squat, some people like to stand.

some people like to yell, some people like to whisper.

some people are overly rude, some people are overly polite.

DEAL WITH IT.

unless you want global unification. ill give you fuckin global unification. it'll be my standard, my way. watch my great armies march across and gas anyone that doesnt agree. everyone must be the same. the master race will prevail.

deal with it. don't be a buncha fucking pussies.

man the fuck up and deal with it. we can go to war over this shit, i'm sure that'll be MUCH more fun. oh yeah totally. lets all sleep in wet muddy trenches and in the guts of our friends cuz we don't like another culture and they don't like us.

DEAL WITH IT.

too lazy to insert sunglasses gif.

i can already see which one of u guys are gonna be the grumpy old racist lol.

guess what, the grumpy old racists these days are just that. no one gives a shit about them. lol just like no one will give a shit about you and your values. adapt or die old and grumpy and stubborn.

you adapt to the world, not the other way around. the ego in this thread is amazing. thinking that the world, whole cultures, have to BEND to you to make your life a little tad more comfortable.

delusional.

the west is finally getting a taste of their own arrogance after all these hundreds of years. im just sitting back and laughing my ass off at the irony. wahh wahh wahh.

great grandchildren pay for their great grandfathers arrogance. and so will ours. you'll always live in the shadows and mistakes of your elders.

[GLOW]

writes an essay, but too lazy to post sunglasses gif :lawl:
here you go.

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20141015042646/le-miiverse-resource/images/f/fa/Deal_With_It..gif
http://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/jackson.gif?w=500
http://media.giphy.com/media/Zo9ACzmJgoqRy/giphy.gif
http://static.fjcdn.com/gifs/Deal_368aed_1390499.gif
https://31.media.tumblr.com/9e12a627c445cfbc9fe3450745228974/tumblr_n0dnp07WrK1r3r6iao8_400.gif

[SkinnyPupp]

You are 100% wrong. Most of the world is not a sweet, kind, and polite place.
When I was in New Delhi I saw a dead man laying on the street during the craziest rush hour I had seen. Cars just drove around him no one stopping to help. Also saw lots of guys crapping in buckets on the street.
We're not talking about slums here, we're talking about civilized society. Specifically. The entire time. :facepalm:

That's all mostly superficial stuff anyway. If you really want to get into it, you have to compare morals at a higher level. Things like being responsible for the earth's environment, empathy for the life of animals and other people, etc... if you want to get into it, that's the stuff you need to talk about. This kind of thing is much more important than spitting in the street or being a rude piece of shit to everyone.

Because if there is going to be one culture truly leading Earth into the future, these are definitely some issues that will come up.

[Xplicit_EL]

to add, Rich immigrants (no matter what ethnicity) do impact Canadian society ( negatively) in some respects. Just look at the friggin average home prices of a detached home in Vancouver. You cannot say that is the result of just a hot housing market. Rich mainland Chinese have contributed greatly to the fact that most canadians are getting priced out of the market in cities where they were born.

[Xplicit_EL]

the west is finally getting a taste of their own arrogance after all these hundreds of years. im just sitting back and laughing my ass off at the irony. wahh wahh wahh.



If you are assuming that China will dominate the West in the coming decades that is a fallacy. China has no intellectual property, no creative people, no technological creativity. All the smart people are moving out of China because it is to repressive. Due to Mao cleansing all the smart people during the cultural revolution there was few smart people to begin with. I predict the communist gov will cause China to implode sooner or later.

[Marco.911]

China and India are far behind the developed world when it comes to etiquette...

edit: :Popcorn

In many ways this is true but what about manners in our own boarders?

Who thinks it's rude to pull out your cell phone and text while out having dinner on a date?

While I think it's an instant deal-breaker move, and most older people would probably agree with me, it's a very very common behaviour.

Grandparents grew up with wearing hats and chewing gum.

Getting a tattoo was a sign of lower-class society and in some cultures, this is still very true.

The list goes on.


Behavioural norms are not always easy to identify when looking cross-culture.

The fact of the matter is that none of these behaviours have anything to do with money. Does someone with $500,000 from China have drastically different behaviours than someone from China with $1,000,000?

If it's a cultural thing then money is moot. I've said that Canada should be a melting pot for years. The reason (again) that Canada has been so friendly regarding bringing people into the country is that the country NEEDS(ED) external money or more bodies to keep the system in motion.

Canada is starting to tighten up more now, mostly as a result of abuse of the system. Thank God I have have citizenship elsewhere.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

If you are assuming that China will dominate the West in the coming decades that is a fallacy. China has no intellectual property, no creative people, no technological creativity. All the smart people are moving out of China because it is to repressive. Due to Mao cleansing all the smart people during the cultural revolution there was few smart people to begin with. I predict the communist gov will cause China to implode sooner or later.

lol, typical uneducated brain washed western bullshit.

for sure china will lead in green energy and genetics.

they do what needs to be done, not hindered by the common persons vote, not hindered by morals or values. they are pragmatic, and have super long term vision. their plans and models are long term enough that, current generations might not even benefit. whereas our long term gets deleted and revamped as soon as a new leader/party is voted in.

they get shit done, and they'll lead in green energy because they have a pollution problem. they'll do anything to fix that problem. and they are already on that track.

china has already installed more solar panels this year, than the usa has its entire history.

a lot of their resources are going into all the other shit that we are trying to achieve as well.

they're just going through a industrial/technological revolution as we did. except theirs will be a lot shorter and more efficient than ours. they'll catch up super fast... hell, they already are.

just you wait... in 2-3 generations, they'll exceed. stop thinking in terms of your lifetime. nothing will change in your lifetime, not here, not there.

your statements are completely retarded. you think the vietnam war or the korean war would be locked in stalemate if those "things" you mentioned were true? you would think a buncha dummies with that have no smart people, no creative people, no intellectual property, would be crushed by the great western USA with all its creativity and freedom right? lol. give me a break.

your definition of creative is skewed.
intellectual property, is not all that its put up to be.
you're just fucking brain washed dude.

they have different sets of rules, by which the people have to live by (and you forget they're just as smart as we are). they'll develop things in a totally different dynamic way we couldnt of imagined.

people are ALL the same. doesn't matter if they're chinese, indian, canadian, european, american.
hell even people from the stone age, bronze age, any of those ages are JUST as smart as we are. we haven't changed, only our environment.

why do you think people from the stone age are still better stone workers than we are? u think they had intellectual property? u think they had creative rights and western freedom? give me a break buddy.

let me give you a small history lesson. those "ages" i mention, insert stone, bronze, whatever you want in front of it.... all that means is, in that age, they MASTERED that shit. mastered as in, since then, there has been no greater mastery of that subject.

stone aged people were not cavemen. they worked within their means to master something. we are no different now. we will master and adapt based on the rules enforced on us.

the western ideologies are not end all be all ideologies. they're just a SECTION of what really goes on in the world. it's just another environment. no better or worse than any other.

arrogance and thinking you're better, will be the downfall. never underestimate your enemies.

[Xplicit_EL]

lol, typical uneducated brain washed western bullshit.

for sure china will lead in green energy and genetics.

they do what needs to be done, not hindered by the common persons vote, not hindered by morals or values. they are pragmatic, and have super long term vision. their plans and models are long term enough that, current generations might not even benefit. whereas our long term gets deleted and revamped as soon as a new leader/party is voted in.

they get shit done, and they'll lead in green energy because they have a pollution problem. they'll do anything to fix that problem. and they are already on that track.

china has already installed more solar panels this year, than the usa has its entire history.

a lot of their resources are going into all the other shit that we are trying to achieve as well.

they're just going through a industrial/technological revolution as we did. except theirs will be a lot shorter and more efficient than ours. they'll catch up super fast... hell, they already are.

just you wait... in 2-3 generations, they'll exceed. stop thinking in terms of your lifetime. nothing will change in your lifetime, not here, not there.

your statements are completely retarded. you think the vietnam war or the korean war would be locked in stalemate if those "things" you mentioned were true? you would think a buncha dummies with that have no smart people, no creative people, no intellectual property, would be crushed by the great western USA with all its creativity and freedom right? lol. give me a break.

your definition of creative is skewed.
intellectual property, is not all that its put up to be.
you're just fucking brain washed dude.

they have different sets of rules, by which the people have to live by (and you forget they're just as smart as we are). they'll develop things in a totally different dynamic way we couldnt of imagined.

people are ALL the same. doesn't matter if they're chinese, indian, canadian, european, american.
hell even people from the stone age, bronze age, any of those ages are JUST as smart as we are. we haven't changed, only our environment.

why do you think people from the stone age are still better stone workers than we are? u think they had intellectual property? u think they had creative rights and western freedom? give me a break buddy.

let me give you a small history lesson. those "ages" i mention, insert stone, bronze, whatever you want in front of it.... all that means is, in that age, they MASTERED that shit. mastered as in, since then, there has been no greater mastery of that subject.

stone aged people were not cavemen. they worked within their means to master something. we are no different now. we will master and adapt based on the rules enforced on us.

the western ideologies are not end all be all ideologies. they're just a SECTION of what really goes on in the world. it's just another environment. no better or worse than any other.

arrogance and thinking you're better, will be the downfall. never underestimate your enemies.


I find it funny that you still talk out of your ass. You cite no evidence whatsoever for your claims. Most of your claims are just your BS opinion. And I take offense that you refer to me as uneducated and brainwashed when in reality its the opposite. I probaly have more degrees than you do and I actually back things up with evidence because thats what lawyers ( I am one) do.

So , unless you have concrete figures to back up all the BS you spout. Please STFU day trader!!

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

yes, you see only what you can see touch and feel, like an animal. you only trust your physical senses. and you lack intuition.

evidence is in the history of mankind.

look further than just a couple decades buddy.

you're a lawyer, educated in the west, to uphold western values and laws. you're the one who's brainwashed dude. you're unable to see anything past what they've fed you and what you do for your work.

evidence... evidence in the things all those great civilizations have left behind for us. what ive mentioned in all those great ages.

concrete evidence are or the blind that cannot see past their own lives.

concrete evidence? read up history dude. look at history. look at all the "great" empires and how they've fallen.

every great empire had people like you cheerleading at the forefront. we're the best, we're the best! WE'RE THE BEST!!!

we're not the best. we never were, and never will be. we're just another slice of the pie. and you're a moron if you believe otherwise.

look beyond the 21st century dude.

all your arguments for the west are the EXACT same bullshit all the other pro western ideological idiots spew.

"intellectual property promotes awesome ideas"
"china is not creative, they're held back by the government"

dude have u even been to china? have even been to india? have you been anywhere and lived there not as a tourist?

you think india leads IT because they're a buncha poor dirty fucks?

like i said, you think vietnam and N korea held their own against the "greatest" nations of the world cuz they had awesome western ideologies?

I NEED TO PRESENT TO YOU EVIDENCE?!
give me a fucking break. you don't need to present evidence when it's blatantly OBVIOUS.

the theory is there, the historical evidence is there. you and all your degrees and "intellectual" bullshit should already know this. you're too busy chasing your own tail buddy.

become more a globalist, than just a fucking animal hiding in your own little hole. you'll see the truth when you encompass ALL of the planet, and ALL of history.

your own little life doesnt mean anything. it's highly skewed and inaccurate.

want evidence?
GOOGLE IT BITCH

Renewable energy in China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&q=china+is+a+leader+in+renewable+energy

yeah im a trader. i fucking trade the energies. you don't think i follow renewable energies?

degrees and education mean nothing when it's fed to the same narrow sighted people.


maybe you should take your fucking law degree and apply it to china and look at the fucking national laws and policies and their goals and projections and compare it to OURS.

open your eyes man.

i bear no allegiance to any culture or nation. i am a fucking human being. i will be proud of whoever i see rising in this wretched cruel world. and right now, i see the chinese rising fast. and what's different about them is, they're rising in a totally different way. and throughout the past 100 years, all people have been doing is taking shits on them, laughing at their path, saying they cant do it unless they follow the western way.

guess what, they're doing it, they're doing it now, and NOT through the western ways and ideology.

"Let her sleep, for when she wakes, she will shake the world."
-Napoleon

let me tell you china is waking up. she's just stretching her arms now. your grandchildren's children will see the dragon fully awaken.

you guys are all nitpicking on the superficial bullshit of a nation going through a technological and economic revolution.

"i don't like the way they act"
guess what, they don't give a fuck what you think. what you think DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER.


like i said, i hold no allegiance to any culture. the world is neutral to me. I have no biases. If some country africa was rising as fast as china, i would gladly wave that african flag around.

don't be ignorant and so arrogant. your culture will fail. just like every other culture that has existed. no one lasts forever.

http://azizonomics.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/20120103_jpm_reserve.png

what kind of evidence do you want? why don't you ask the dead people from 300 years ago? oh right they're dead. i guess cuz they're dead and they cant talk to you, they don't count. i guess anything beyond your own little 30 year life doesn't count.


it doesn't matter who was FIRST to do whatever achievement.
sure we sent people to the moon FIRST and all this other shit FIRST
oh u forget china was the FIRST to do many things too. FIRST DOESNT COUNT FOR SHIT.

it's what they can do now, and in the next 150-250 years.

ask anyone that's not a blind patriot. you don't think china is a formidable force? you think china is just some 3rd world backwater town?
anyone that thinks that is living with their heads up their asses. blinded by arrogance and ego.

you don't measure a whole nation by individuals. you measure it by the nation. look from a bigger and wider perspective.

there could be a world leading nation that was full of homosexuals sucking each other off. you could not like the way they suck each other, but that doesn't matter. it doesn't matter what you think or what the individuals do.

nations are NOT measured by the people that encompass it.

we're not talking about which place is NICER to live in or what place is more COZY or accepting or whatever the fuck.

we're talking about empires, which are measured by dominance in force and technological advances. and the western world is slipping in all those areas.

stop measuring things in terms of the past. and measure the in terms of future potential.

oh, you can't cuz you need fucking empirical tangible evidence for anything to process in your fucking head.

theoretical always leads. never forget that. never forget what the fucking P in phD stands for.

[Xplicit_EL]

yes, you see only what you can see touch and feel, like an animal. you only trust your physical senses. and you lack intuition.

evidence is in the history of mankind.

look further than just a couple decades buddy.

you're a lawyer, educated in the west, to uphold western values and laws. you're the one who's brainwashed dude. you're unable to see anything past what they've fed you and what you do for your work.

evidence... evidence in the things all those great civilizations have left behind for us. what ive mentioned in all those great ages.

concrete evidence are or the blind that cannot see past their own lives.

concrete evidence? read up history dude. look at history. look at all the "great" empires and how they've fallen.

every great empire had people like you cheerleading at the forefront. we're the best, we're the best! WE'RE THE BEST!!!

we're not the best. we never were, and never will be. we're just another slice of the pie. and you're a moron if you believe otherwise.

look beyond the 21st century dude.

all your arguments for the west are the EXACT same bullshit all the other pro western ideological idiots spew.

"intellectual property promotes awesome ideas"
"china is not creative, they're held back by the government"

dude have u even been to china? have even been to india? have you been anywhere and lived there not as a tourist?

you think india leads IT because they're a buncha poor dirty fucks?

like i said, you think vietnam and N korea held their own against the "greatest" nations of the world cuz they had awesome western ideologies?

I NEED TO PRESENT TO YOU EVIDENCE?!
give me a fucking break. you don't need to present evidence when it's blatantly OBVIOUS.

the theory is there, the historical evidence is there. you and all your degrees and "intellectual" bullshit should already know this. you're too busy chasing your own tail buddy.

become more a globalist, than just a fucking animal hiding in your own little hole. you'll see the truth when you encompass ALL of the planet, and ALL of history.

your own little life doesnt mean anything. it's highly skewed and inaccurate.

want evidence?
GOOGLE IT BITCH

Renewable energy in China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_China)

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&q=china+is+a+leader+in+renewable+energy

yeah im a trader. i fucking trade the energies. you don't think i follow renewable energies?

degrees and education mean nothing when it's fed to the same narrow sighted people.


maybe you should take your fucking law degree and apply it to china and look at the fucking national laws and policies and their goals and projections and compare it to OURS.

open your eyes man.

i bear no allegiance to any culture or nation. i am a fucking human being. i will be proud of whoever i see rising in this wretched cruel world. and right now, i see the chinese rising fast. and what's different about them is, they're rising in a totally different way. and throughout the past 100 years, all people have been doing is taking shits on them, laughing at their path, saying they cant do it unless they follow the western way.

guess what, they're doing it, they're doing it now, and NOT through the western ways and ideology.

"Let her sleep, for when she wakes, she will shake the world."
-Napoleon

let me tell you china is waking up. she's just stretching her arms now. your grandchildren's children will see the dragon fully awaken.

you guys are all nitpicking on the superficial bullshit of a nation going through a technological and economic revolution.

"i don't like the way they act"
guess what, they don't give a fuck what you think. what you think DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER.


like i said, i hold no allegiance to any culture. the world is neutral to me. I have no biases. If some country africa was rising as fast as china, i would gladly wave that african flag around.

don't be ignorant and so arrogant. your culture will fail. just like every other culture that has existed. no one lasts forever.

http://azizonomics.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/20120103_jpm_reserve.png

what kind of evidence do you want? why don't you ask the dead people from 300 years ago? oh right they're dead. i guess cuz they're dead and they cant talk to you, they don't count. i guess anything beyond your own little 30 year life doesn't count.

You are still an IDIOT!!!!! I worked in Honk Kong as a lawyer and also studied the PRC legal system while there. You seem to be all over the place with your argument. Stop prophesying shit in the future that no one will know the answer to. Yes, you say that you are all looking to history to give evidence for your prediction. But, has there ever been a communist led country become the pre eminient super power in the world? NO, there has not. So based on your whacked theory it could never happen.

As I mentioned the communist gov of China may do things to keep their economy going like currency manipulation but ultimately the communist gov will be its own downfall. There is soo much corruption in China that it will eventually F them over. Not to mention that fact that the pollution will give everyone lung cancer etc.

I don't know if you lived in China, but if you think it is soo great there and they are the potential to be the next super power then how come you are not where the action is??

China is one big cluster fuck: 1) the pollution 2) the corruption 3) no cultural/technical development-they have to hack into the US to steal information and specs because they don't know how the fuck to make things. As mentioned, China is the worlds imitation capital for all things because they are too stupid and un imaginative to create anything practical for mankind.

Also, if you are soo good at predicting shit you would have made a ton of money on the stock market.

You are nothing more than a fucking demagogue. You just spout shit out of your ass based on emotion.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

buddy

List of largest empires - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_empires#All_empires_at_their_great est_extent)

you think any of those empires had the same ideologies as we do now?

empires that have led the world with our current ideologies... let's see... JUST ONE. RIGHT NOW. THAT'S IT.

any communist empire that's pre eminent super power? YEAH CHINA, RIGHT NOW!!!

right right, the corruption will never be fixed. it's only been a problem for like less than 40 years. 40 fucking years is a drop in the bucket. again you're measuring things based on your little life.

yes yes everyone is gonna get lung cancer in china. that's totally not gonna make them clean up way harder and faster than we are. CUZ IT'S AN ACTUAL FUCKING PROBLEM. you don't think they're smart enough to FIX problems? yeah they're gonna let EVERYONE die of lung cancer. very smart.

yeah, they can't invent anything... so they have to steal everything and then make it better. what's wrong with that? that's just a value clash there. those values don't matter

what's the fuckign difference between a corporation in USA, getting some geeks in their R&D department to come up with shit, then they take it and use it?

guess what, china is using USA as their R&D department, cuz why the fuck would they waste energy doing something they can just steal? i would.

wah wah, i invented it first, it's mine!!!
no it's not, we just stole it -china

what the fuck are you gonna do about it? go sue them, jesus. what's yours is now theirs. whats so fucking hard to understand about that?

if you have something, and I COPY IT FROM YOU, NOW IT'S MINE. 1+1=2.
fucktard. they don't care about your ethics.

all you can do is attack china based on the same points everyone else keeps raising.

they're too stupid to invent shit
they're too corrupt
their air is bad

what kinda FUCKING ARGUMENTS ARE THOSE.

what arrogance you have.

you only know one way of doing things, anything outside of that is unetheical or wrong.

are you a fucking idiot.

maybe they're just better at stealing shit than we are. and thats their way of doing shit, and IT WORKS.

what's wrong with that?

intellectual property rights? THEY DONT HAVE THOSE. THEY CAN STEAL IT IF THEY WANNA.

get it in your head.

your VALUES, YOUR RULES, YOUR WAY OF LIVING, YOUR WORLD, does NOT apply to them.

they do things THEIR way. and it WORKS.

and the NUMBERS SHOW IT.

all you keep doing is attacking them based on SUPERFICIAL BULLSHIT.



IF THEY'RE SO CRAPPY, AND STUPID, WHY ARE THEY DRIVING LAMBOS AROUND AND BREAKING ALL THE LAWS AND GETTING AWAY WITH IT?

why are all the luxury and 1% services CATERING TO THEM? why aren't they catering to us?!

that's right, cuz their "crappy" ways, WORK. just a lot differently than yours.

and all you guys can do is complain in fear that you're "LOSING OUR IDENTITY" "LOSING OUR CULTURE" "THEY'RE INVADING US"
damn rights they are, because they have the power to.

you wouldn't be fucking complaining if they were a backwater country.

but this thread exists. because they are a super power, and they're fucking you up the ass right now, thats why youre whining and bitching.

that is the end game. you guys only bitch, because they are worthy of being bitched about. they're stealing whats yours and you don't fucking like it.

all you guys gotta say is "I DONT FUCKING LIKE IT" and that's it. it ends at that. everything else is superficial.
(no one cares that you don't like it btw, especially not them).

[jasonturbo]

Being wealthy in China is not indicative of your intelligence, it's typically more indicative as to your family history… and usually whether or not they owned a factory making some sort of junk that was imported by the USA in large numbers.

Is Chinese man that owns a factory producing "I <3 You Mom" mugs a smart person? According to Ulic, yes.

Innovation is key, and China is nowhere near a leader when it comes to innovation.

https://hbr.org/2014/03/why-china-cant-innovate ---> one of about a million articles or papers that will support my comment about China lacking innovation.

[NKC ONE]

Being wealthy in China is not indicative of your intelligence, it's typically more indicative as to your family history… and usually whether or not they owned a factory making some sort of junk that was imported by the USA in large numbers.

Is Chinese man that owns a factory producing "I <3 You Mom" mugs a smart person? According to Ulic, yes.

Innovation is key, and China is nowhere near a leader when it comes to innovation.

https://hbr.org/2014/03/why-china-cant-innovate ---> one of about a million articles or papers that will support my comment about China lacking innovation.

Is being wealthy anywhere an indication of intelligence?

[SkinnyPupp]

Ulic repeating things over and over while calling people names won't ever give your arguments a base to stand on.

China is seeing a huge boom right now, as they rape their land of all resources, and build real estate economies out of thin air to back them up, leading to ghost towns. If you think the recent real estate collapse in the US was bad, imagine what it will be when things tumble after building entire cities for no other purpose than to keep building cities.

Besides, you can't predict things during a boom. If that was the case, no civilization would ever fail. China, like every other civilization, has had its ups and downs over the centuries. Right now they are up.

Just because you have a bunch of billionaire buddies (though I think it might be just one dude filling your head with this shit) doesn't mean they know everything about everything. None of us do. We can have opinions and predictions, and getting all mad when someone doesn't agree with you, and can prove why, will just make you more frustrated.

[MarkyMark]

To save everyone time from reading Ulics next response here are some cliffs:

-DEAL WITH IT

-Big Bolded letters to make his point somehow seem more relevant

-A bunch of "fucks" thrown in to let you know he's not "fucking" around when he types this

-China Baby!!

-A bunch of shit he wrote in his very first response that he felt he had to bring up again, and in every single reply since then. Probably to make it longer than it needed to be.

/you're welcome

[Hehe]

Seriously... if China is so great, why do they want to come to Canada?!? :suspicious:

[Xplicit_EL]

buddy

List of largest empires - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_empires#All_empires_at_their_great est_extent)

you think any of those empires had the same ideologies as we do now?

empires that have led the world with our current ideologies... let's see... JUST ONE. RIGHT NOW. THAT'S IT.

any communist empire that's pre eminent super power? YEAH CHINA, RIGHT NOW!!!

right right, the corruption will never be fixed. it's only been a problem for like less than 40 years. 40 fucking years is a drop in the bucket. again you're measuring things based on your little life.

yes yes everyone is gonna get lung cancer in china. that's totally not gonna make them clean up way harder and faster than we are. CUZ IT'S AN ACTUAL FUCKING PROBLEM. you don't think they're smart enough to FIX problems? yeah they're gonna let EVERYONE die of lung cancer. very smart.

yeah, they can't invent anything... so they have to steal everything and then make it better. what's wrong with that? that's just a value clash there. those values don't matter

what's the fuckign difference between a corporation in USA, getting some geeks in their R&D department to come up with shit, then they take it and use it?

guess what, china is using USA as their R&D department, cuz why the fuck would they waste energy doing something they can just steal? i would.

wah wah, i invented it first, it's mine!!!
no it's not, we just stole it -china

what the fuck are you gonna do about it? go sue them, jesus. what's yours is now theirs. whats so fucking hard to understand about that?

if you have something, and I COPY IT FROM YOU, NOW IT'S MINE. 1+1=2.
fucktard. they don't care about your ethics.

all you can do is attack china based on the same points everyone else keeps raising.

they're too stupid to invent shit
they're too corrupt
their air is bad

what kinda FUCKING ARGUMENTS ARE THOSE.

what arrogance you have.

you only know one way of doing things, anything outside of that is unetheical or wrong.

are you a fucking idiot.

maybe they're just better at stealing shit than we are. and thats their way of doing shit, and IT WORKS.

what's wrong with that?

intellectual property rights? THEY DONT HAVE THOSE. THEY CAN STEAL IT IF THEY WANNA.

get it in your head.

your VALUES, YOUR RULES, YOUR WAY OF LIVING, YOUR WORLD, does NOT apply to them.

they do things THEIR way. and it WORKS.

and the NUMBERS SHOW IT.

all you keep doing is attacking them based on SUPERFICIAL BULLSHIT.



IF THEY'RE SO CRAPPY, AND STUPID, WHY ARE THEY DRIVING LAMBOS AROUND AND BREAKING ALL THE LAWS AND GETTING AWAY WITH IT?

why are all the luxury and 1% services CATERING TO THEM? why aren't they catering to us?!

that's right, cuz their "crappy" ways, WORK. just a lot differently than yours.

and all you guys can do is complain in fear that you're "LOSING OUR IDENTITY" "LOSING OUR CULTURE" "THEY'RE INVADING US"
damn rights they are, because they have the power to.

you wouldn't be fucking complaining if they were a backwater country.

but this thread exists. because they are a super power, and they're fucking you up the ass right now, thats why youre whining and bitching.

that is the end game. you guys only bitch, because they are worthy of being bitched about. they're stealing whats yours and you don't fucking like it.

all you guys gotta say is "I DONT FUCKING LIKE IT" and that's it. it ends at that. everything else is superficial.
(no one cares that you don't like it btw, especially not them).

First of all , don't call me your buddy. Because I will never consider someone like you a buddy. Fucking dip shit. you can't even answer my simple question. If you love sucking "China" dick soo much why don't you do us all a favor and move there? I am Chinese and grew up in both cultures , so I think I have as much insight as you do. Are you even Chinese?

I bet that the same reason you would not drop everything this instance and move to China is because of the points everyone raised : pollution, corruption, lack of innovation.

I would add one more. Western societies have the rule of law. Try getting a fair trial in China. They even censor the internet for fuck sakes. The shit we are posting right now would get us thrown in jail over there.

No one knows for certain what the future holds for China. What I am trying to say is that the lack of human rights and the repressive regime will only lead to more suffering for the people of China. And I bet that is the main reason you are not willing to settle there. Because deep down you are a scared little bitch that can talk the talk but cannot walk the walk. Hence you resort to sounding tough on the internet.

Please do everyone a favor and go die.

[underscore]

IF THEY'RE SO CRAPPY, AND STUPID, WHY ARE THEY DRIVING LAMBOS AROUND AND BREAKING ALL THE LAWS AND GETTING AWAY WITH IT?

Because they're sponsored by mommy and daddy you dumb bastard.

[Tone Loc]

Because they're sponsored by mommy and daddy you dumb bastard.

This. Don't understand how being a young kid whose mommy and daddy bought them their car/house/everything can be considered "smart". Some of the smartest people of the last 200 years were pretty average. Gandhi, Einstein, Tesla, Bill Gates (before the Microsoft boom), the list goes on...

By your logic, a person with a 45 IQ who won the Lotto 6/49 would suddenly be considered "smart" after accepting all the money.

Money =/= wealth. Unless you actually earn it.

Cliffs: Stop drinking the "China 1%" KoolAid... if you are one, post a picture of your garage so at least we know you're not wasting so much time defending a group of people you can only dream of belonging to. Otherwise that would be kinda pathetic, don't you think?

And FYI, if they were truly "breaking the law, and getting away with it", you wouldn't know enough to talk about it. They are not getting away with it because they are getting caught.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

OKOK...

you guys all yell at me saying i say the same shit.

you guys all say the same shit over and over again too.

FINE, lets have a proper discussion without yelling...

what you guys keep repeating:

-they're corrupt (i can agree)
-they're stupid and have no innovation (i highly disagree here)
-they've got pollution (half agree)

you guys talk as if those things are permanent, as if they're INNATE to china. but they're NOT. these things are only since mao took over.

those things can be FIXED. and ARE being fixed.

corruption has come down SO much since 20 years ago. AND you don't think the west are corrupt? you guys gotta remember, the west is JUST as corrupt. just our corruption is at the 10th level of deception and manipulation. lobbyists. i can go on. and on and on. our corruption is a lot more complex. It's PROFESSIONAL corruption. chinese corruption is cowboy style corruption. it's blatantly obvious, in your face.

hell they've lied to us to bring us into wars SEVERAL TIMES. spend TRILLIONS of dollars on slaughtering hundreds of thousands of people... how is that NOT corrupt? how is that any BETTER? c'mon guys. seriously.

pollution? dude.. pollution can be fixed. they're fixing it FASTER than anyone else right now. at a scary rate. TRUST me on that one. i've already posted links and ANYONE in the green energy industry knows, china is leading in that area.
like i said before, they lead in that area, because it's an actual problem for them. and they know it. their healthcare system is being fucked right now with people dying from pollution related stuff. THEY KNOW THAT. and they're pouring a shit ton of resources into cleaning up. it will take time. remember they're communist, they need their workers to keep working. what good are sick workers? they've realised this in the past 5-10 years and they're working HARD on it. not for a better environment for the sake of prettiness or nature, for the sake of the PEOPLE. they want more effective WORKERS. sick people, cant produce shit.

i beg you guys to stop thinking in short term (anything less than 50 years). They WILL clean up corruption, and FOR SURE they'll clean up pollution. 100% for sure. china has a fucking huge power shortage problem. they KNOW this as well, and they're working hard toward clean energy.

lastly, lacking creativity and innovation... no man... you guys forget, yeah sure the chinese versions of the silent generation, generation X and a bit of Y, lack a lot of "creativity" we have. but what about their NEW generation? babies are being born everyday man.

innovation, and all that stuff can be learned in a short 10-15 years. the new kids will learn it and they already ARE. they go to school here and they move back and they do shit there. in a blink of an eye, they'll have a new generation of kids that are just as educated and smart as ours.

have you guys even seen what the new generation chinese are doing? remember, they're as young as we are or even younger. and they're not fucking stupid that's for sure.

and Xplicit_EL... yeah i'm chinese. taiwanese to "be exact". raised here. and i go back to china/hk/taiwan every year. i go there every year to familiarize myself with whats going on there. I visit offices and i talk to other businessmen and see what kinda shit they're doing.

you have no idea man. there are tons of taiwanese in china doing business now, and let me tell you taiwanese are a lot more westernized than china is. half the people i meet there are white people that have moved there to do business and start ups.

ask anyone here that lives there. J___, $_$, a few others. they'll tell you the same thing im telling you.

superficially u may not like how they do things or think its backwards just because its different. but in the end, you will realise, that's all it is... it's just DIFFERENT. but JUST as capable.

i used to be like you guys, hate on the fucking dirty chinese. until i went there and lived there and explored and fucking actually OPENED my eyes and truly tried to understand what was going on.

I truly believe China and India will rise to be leaders in the globe. Technology only gets cheaper and more mass produced and easily attainable. They'll have all the technology and shit you guys have. AND they're human, just like you, just as smart and innovative as you are.

intellectual property does not produce innovation. america only is more "innovative" because they've had a 100 year jump start, which the 3rd world is quickly closing on. that 100 year gap is quickly being closed and the playing field will be pretty much even by the time we're dead.

10-20+ years ago you wouldn't of found one art exhibition there. There are tons everywhere and let me tell you, i'm very into art and i was SUPREMELY impressed by what the chinese artists have produced. and to my ignorance some of the "modern" art works displayed were worth millions of dollars, and when i looked at the date it was created, it was created in the 80's and 90's. there's SO much that's hidden.

people create and build and think of the same thing you guys do, just it's all hidden because there has been a lack of funnel to display it to the public. but that's looser now and every year it's more and more loose and all these things are suddenly popping up everywhere, and they didn't just pop up from no where, they've ALWAYS been there, just hidden from the public eye, hidden from the west.

as for "chinese hacking" and stealing US stuff.... yeah... but you know the west does the same to the chinese right... lol. just we don't report that shit, and the chinese doesnt report that shit to their people either. cyber war is NORMAL. don't be so arrogant to think they're the only ones hacking, like it's a one way street.

You guys seriously just hate them because they have money, or because they're different, or a mix of both. it's been said many times in this thread, anyone that gains wealth that quickly will probably do stupid shit. so it's really not the wealth. you guys just hate the chinese culture. it's as simple as that. the bottom line, is it's borderline racist. it's xenophobic.

you guys have grown old and forgot to look at the youth. go visit the universities, and highschools, all these mainland kids, they're all going to move back to china, and they're going to use what they learnt here, and reproduce it there.

why don't I move there? lol, cuz i can't exactly just get a fucking chinese passport just like that. i cant even get a taiwanese passport unless i serve in their military (highly considered, since i've gone through training here, i know taiwan will be a walk in the park).

What's going to happen is, they're going to move back, and they're going to want a better life and country, and instead of staying here, they're going to build a better china. because they're chinese. they don't wanna be canadian like you want to be canadian.

all the attributes that you guys have, all the love for your own country and culture, they have as well, for their own shit. you guys talk about them like they're just a buncha fucking cavemen that dont care about anything. that's not how it is. that's just what the western propaganda has been feeding you guys, and your xenophobic hatred toward their "weird" culture has helped fuel that.

you guys are looking at them through a very negative filter, forgetting that there's a whole positive side, that's weighed just as heavy or even heavier than the bad side.

just look at history, the chinese were doing great innovative awesome things for THOUSANDS of years, when your ancestors were still burning people for reading anything other than the bible. during the dark ages, all of the western world had their heads up their asses, and the middle east and asia were leading the world.

then power shift changed and it switched. what makes you think it wont switch again? look at the bigger picture. what you see, feel and hear NOW, only matters NOW. not in the future.

[Mr.HappySilp]

corruption come down? Yea right. Cousin mom owns a business in China. Recently she got in trouble with the law (If there is actual law lol). She knows the city mayor so to her the case is good as a win. Guess what, the other party knows someone higher up. BAM she instantly lost the case and have to pay like 50% of her whole business just to get of jail.

Yes that's a fine way their justice runs. Is not about who is right, is about who you know.

If China is so great why do so many billionaire wants to get away from China? If it is great why not stay? Coz they know any sec the gov could throw them in jail take all their wealth and let you rot in jail for the rest of your life. Not only is your life ruin but also your family, your relatives and even your close friends are all fuck.

What about pollution? Poison food they sell, how 99% of the population make close to nothing. If China is great Ulic why don't go back and stay there. Don't come back to Canada ever.

Fixing pollution is a fucking joke. China refuse to sign the United Nations Climate Change Conference treaty because they know they won't be able to reduce their pollution (just to be fair other countries have refuse to sign it as well). Yes if they really do want to fix the pollution issue they would have sign the treaty and do all in their power to reduce pollution.

[Xplicit_EL]

corruption come down? Yea right. Cousin mom owns a business in China. Recently she got in trouble with the law (If there is actual law lol). She knows the city mayor so to her the case is good as a win. Guess what, the other party knows someone higher up. BAM she instantly lost the case and have to pay like 50% of her whole business just to get of jail.

Yes that's a fine way their justice runs. Is not about who is right, is about who you know.

If China is so great why do so many billionaire wants to get away from China? If it is great why not stay? Coz they know any sec the gov could throw them in jail take all their wealth and let you rot in jail for the rest of your life. Not only is your life ruin but also your family, your relatives and even your close friends are all fuck.

What about pollution? Poison food they sell, how 99% of the population make close to nothing. If China is great Ulic why don't go back and stay there. Don't come back to Canada ever.

Fixing pollution is a fucking joke. China refuse to sign the United Nations Climate Change Conference treaty because they know they won't be able to reduce their pollution (just to be fair other countries have refuse to sign it as well). Yes if they really do want to fix the pollution issue they would have sign the treaty and do all in their power to reduce pollution.

Exactly, China will never dominate because they fuck over their own citizens. They have no Rule of Law which makes for pissed off citizens. They have no human rights which will lead to more protests ie: occupy HK .

If that won't destroy their society the fucking pollution will. You think that Communist China officials care a shit about the environment? They only care about how much money they can stash away and leave the country in a worse place then when they came into power. Ulic is seriously delusional if he thinks that all this will somehow disappear and get better.

Ulic your figure on how China has more solar panels or what not then any other country might be correct but look how many people are fucking in China. Its all a matter of perspective. China is still the worst polluter of any country and this is not going to change within the next 100 years. And even if it does, non of us are going to be around to see the effect. Soo Ulic your points are moot, because you cannot predict the future. And hence that is why you are talking out your ass as usual.

I highly suspect you are a commie by the way.

[Xplicit_EL]

To add to that, you always fucking quote the 1% of super rich chinese that immigrate here and you never look at the dirt shit poor people that make up the majority of the population in China. This shows that you are out of touch with reality.

[Marco.911]

Problems with China:

Pollution
Corruption
Poor behaviour
Social system fallacy
Lack of innovation
Monetary policy fallacy



Some of these points will tie in together.



Pollution:

Compared with Canada, especially Vancouver and BC, this isn't even a discussion. China is dirty as hell compared to us - yes I've been. I'm also aware that some areas of China are also quite beautiful and pretty. Any area that occupies the sheer mass of people that are found in China will have environmental impact.

A large part of this problem is that China is moving and growing too quickly. An example of a large city with a problem is New York. Now I'm not saying New York is as dirty as China, but New York is a city that grew very very fast and had a lot of problems during that growth. 100 years later it is much better but it's still archaic with some of their systems.

China is growing so fast that it's difficult not to have elevated pollution. I don't believe China wants a dirty environment. The problem is that they aren't willing to put on the brakes with the rapidity of the development and let other avenues 'catch up'. There is too much money to be made and so they idea of "we'll clean it up later" or "we'll deal with it later" becomes the common theme.


Corruption

It's everywhere and in Canada too. China gets a bad reputation for it as do a lot of other countries such as South American countries and generally "poorer" countries.

This is a difficult subject to make a case for. I can give examples of corruption that might seem favourable while many others that are not. At the end of the line (as with a great deal of the pollution issue) it comes down to show me the money.

With so much boom and families feeling like they're going to get left behind I can understand their situation. If you're worried that your son or daughter won't get the education you believe they need to be successful in the future and it's because you couldn't afford it, you might take a bribe. Like most things in China, they spin out of control. Too much growth too fast and nobody can wait for anything. People will pay to expedite their plans.


Poor Behaviour:

I think this is where things got wild for most of us on this thread. I am not suggesting poor behaviour is acceptable. What I am saying is that it is to be expected. You simply cannot give people the kinds of money we are talking about without significant preparation and then ease them into it. Sadly this is a problem in almost all cultures. As money is the means of power, the more of it you have, the more you can use it to justify (right or wrongfully so) your actions.

Movie stars do drugs, sports players beating their girlfriend's or wives. It's not good. The flip side is they do a lot of good things too like donate money, pay large taxes to build infrastructure etc. I believe that the behaviour in China will improve over time but not without some life lessons along the way.

Yes, there are people that win millions and don't change at all. That's not the norm. I never thought you could make a 458 Ferrari ugly and then I drive into Richmond and I'm proven wrong. Class, style, elegance is something that comes with time and experience. Most of China does not have that yet and it will likely take decades before this is improved.

It doesn't change the fact that there is also a lot of good being done with this money.



Social system fallacy

The system as a whole is quite new. China hasn't worked out all the bugs. They've probably tried to do what they do best which is copy other systems and adopt them to their own. The difficulty is that no system has ever been tested on the scale that China is doing things and so there are a lot of problems. China may very well want to put the brakes on a lot of things but you can't stop half a billion people moving in a second. It takes time. As of right now I believe they are doing a pretty good job trying to keep things together given the situation. It's a mess though and it won't get fixed until the country slows down.



Lack of innovation


I believe that China lacks a lot of innovation which is sad because China did so many things right a millennia ago. Most of the money being made in China is due to scale. Alibaba is nothing new or even that great. Ebay and various other systems did that over two decades ago. China is getting into the press because when China does something, it's so huge.

If you make a product that 20 million Canadians have to have and you're selling this product, you'd be insanely successful by our standards. In China, you can copy the same product and make it less effective but because of scale, you're company is now selling to 200 million people. 10 times that of your product. It's going to make waves and catch attention.

I believe China has the ability to be innovative and they have done some things that I can appreciate for sure. Overall though, China is very much lacking in this but some might say who cares because it's making them money. I never said Chinese people were stupid, nor poor, just not particularly innovative as a nation.



Monetary policy fallacy

Given my profession I'm somewhat embarrassed to say I'm not 100% familiar with their entire policy. That doesn't mean I can't make an educated opinion about it. Modern monetary policy is just a made up set of rules we use to try and keep some level of order on things.

It stops us from wielding weapons and using force as the defining law. China is making it up as they go no more or no less than the US. The big question is, is it working?

Right now it is. I can't say if it will continue to do so. I can say that it will fail in the future at some point. That is an absolute but that still doesn't mean the country will collapse and fail to hold value in the global world.




Is China a superpower?


They're for sure important. The amount of wealth alone is enough to make a global impact. The number of people within the boarders make it a significant powerhouse. As Ulic mentioned, I think this has more to do with who's strongest. It's more of a can China beat the US or can China beat country 'X'.

I think of China as the bratty 5 year old in kindergarten. As a modern country they are very young and right now they need the rest of the world to learn. As they learn, they will piss off a bunch of people and do a lot of damage. Over time, they will mature and require less help, they will become more independent and someday possibly become a leader.

Just like a kid, he could get cancer and die, turn out to be a loser and be addicted to drugs, or just flat out be that average accountant that does a good job but never really holds the steering wheel.

Time will tell.

[underscore]

-they've got pollution (half agree)

China starts televising the sunrise on giant TV screens because Beijing is so clouded in smog | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2540955/Beijing-clouded-smog-way-sunrise-watch-giant-commercial-screens-Tiananmen-Square.html)

The density of PM2.5 was about 350 to 500 micrograms Thursday midmorning, though the air started to clear in the afternoon. It had reached as high as 671 at 4 a.m. at a monitoring post at the U.S. Embassy in Beijing.

That is about 26 times as high as the 25 micrograms considered safe by the World Health Organization.

:suspicious:

[Mr.HappySilp]

Here is more of how China is cleaning up the pollution issue

Pollution In China Is Out Of Control: 33 Shocking Photographs (http://all-that-is-interesting.com/pollution-in-china-photographs#1)

Don't think so lol.

[SkinnyPupp]

All these pictures are a frustrating reminder that no matter what Americans/Europeans/Japanese/etc do to prevent climate change and pollution, it's not going to matter. Because China has more people than anyone and they don't give a flying fuck.

The normal countries could potentially find some way to end or reverse climate change completely, but if China isn't going along with it, it's not going to matter.

And like Ulic says, since they have so much money, they have the power to do so. That includes fucking things up for the rest of the world. And I don't mean pissing in the streets.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

right, because they're trying, it doesnt mean they can clean up 40 years of pollution overnight.

why don't you guys measure their level of pollution in another 40 years and tell me i'm wrong (hell, i'll give em an optimistic 15 years). I bet you 15-40+ years from now, it will be a lot better than now.

there gets to a point where not giving a fuck affects how much money comes in. and when they realise they can make more money by cleaning up and fixing laws, THEY WILL, FOR THE MONEY.

again i tell you guys to stop using current examples and examples of the recent past. Shit doesn't change over night, shit doesn't change in a week, in a year. it takes DECADES. how many times do i have to tell you to stop using examples that are within our or our parents lifetimes. Think further dumbasses.

you think environmentalists (the few that existed) back in the industrial age thought they'd ever clean that shit up? well looky, it's fucking gone 185 years later.

185 years. and most of it was cleaned up within this century.

i think the divide here is because some people lack the ability to observe from a macro perspective, beyond their own little lives. If it ain't happening now, or within an impulsive measurable amount of time, it doesn't simply cannot exist and cannot happen.

yeah, we went from not being able to fly, to being able to send people to the moon in 66 years.

you guys SERIOUSLY think in 66 years, things are gonna be the fucking same as now?

how short sighted are you guys?

and it's not like it's completely ON china to clean china. other countries can invent things that clean faster, and china will either buy it off them or copy it and use it to their own needs.

i cannot believe how near sighted people can be.

In the first half of the 18th century, both London and Paris, the largest cities in Europe with respectively 1 and 2.4 million inhabitants by 1850, experienced a series of recurring epidemics of cholera and typhoid. In 1832 over 20,000 Parisians died in a cholera outbreak; London experienced similar outbreaks. This was caused by increasing amounts of sewage dumped into the Seine and Thames rivers.

...much sewage was still discharged in open water outside cities and air pollution continued unchecked until the mid-20th century.

London was infamous for its combinations of smoke and fog, combined in the word smog, and therefore earned the nickname “the Big Smoke”. All major cities suffered from smoke pollution and Edinburgh’s nickname, “Auld Reekie” refers partly to the sanitary situation of the town as well as to smoke pollution. The effects of air pollution brought cities to a halt, disrupting traffic but more dangerously also causing death rates to rise. During a week of smog in 1873 killed over 700 people in London. However, the largest air pollution disaster in Britain was the Great London Smog of December 1952 which killed approximately 4,000 people.

Following the Great London Smog legislation was introduced and the first Clean Air Act was passed in 1956 which moved power stations and heavy industry to more rural sites. The reduction of domestic and industrial coal burning and the use of smokeless coals has led to a reduction in the levels of emission of sulphur dioxide, one of the main contributors to acid rain, the emissions falling between 1970 and 1994 by 60 percent in British cities. Similar developments can be observed in many industrialised countries.

look at the dates mentioned. 1956, 1970, 1994.

that's not that fucking long ago. we didn't even fucking start really recycling till OUR generation. ask your parents how dirty some of these places were in the 50's-80's.

700 people died in a week in london cuz of smog. and 4000 died in december 1952.

you don't think china, will go through the exact god damn same thing london will? new laws will come up cuz even the leaders own kids are suffering? because more money is being spent of hospital and care of the sick than being on production? are you guys really that near sighted?

http://www.eh-resources.org/timeline/imgs_timeline/smoke.jpg
http://merryfarmer.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/15131factory.gif
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7467/2757/1600/industrial%20revolution.jpg
http://www.islandbreath.org/2010Year/05/100519china2010.jpg
btw, the last picture is china 2010.

stop measuring things with your own very subjective personal experiences and measure them by the great time lengths of repeating patterns throughout history.

ALL NATIONS GO THROUGH THE SAME SHIT. and like all nations, they pull themselves out of it.

if you're willing to bet against that, well then, there's no discussion, cuz you're an idiot.

[SkinnyPupp]

The central government is trying - they have to. Problem is, there is so much corruption from the upper levels all the way down to the janitor that there's nothing they can do.

Like Ulic said, money = power to do "whatever the fuck you want". In this case, thousands of people are making lots of money, getting lots of power, at the expense of millions of others.

But hey, they have money, so you have to respect that right? Idolize them even

you guys SERIOUSLY think in 66 years, things are gonna be the fucking same as now?

At this rate, there will be no cities in China that are liveable in 66 years. We'll be lucky if there are any on earth at all.

"ALL NATIONS GO THROUGH THE SAME SHIT"

All nations went through this shit once, because they didn't have the benefit of someone else "going through the shit" before. China does, and they have the power not to "go through the same shit". However greed and corruption is way more important to them (and you) to do the right thing.

[Mr.HappySilp]

LOl yea takes 15 to 40years to clean up. By 2030 China will run out of clean water to use. I don't think your so call cleaning up really works when they are all using polluted water and getting themselves kill.

So Ulic long term plan isn't going to work lol.
Water resources of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Over-extraction of groundwater and falling water tables are big problems in China, particularly in the north. According to the Ministry of Construction, preliminary statistics show that there are more than 160 areas nationwide where groundwater has been over-exploited with an average annual groundwater depletion of more than 10 billion cubic meters. As a result, more than 60,000 square kilometers of ground surface have sunk with more than 50 cities suffering from serious land subsidence.[2] Flooding also still is a major problem.

In a Xinhua article from 2002, Chinese experts warned of future or current water shortages. Water resource usage was expected to peak in 2030 when the population peaks. Areas north of the Yangtze river were particularly affected with 80.9% of Chinese water resources being south of the river. Northern China had used 10,000-year-old aquifers which had resulted in ground cracking and subsidence in some regions.[3]"

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/opinion/2012-11/29/content_15969860.htm
China told to reduce food production or face 'dire' water levels | Environment | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/jun/28/china-food-water)
Water: All dried up | The Economist (http://www.economist.com/news/china/21587813-northern-china-running-out-water-governments-remedies-are-potentially-disastrous-all)

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

yeah just like my grade 7 idiot teacher told us taiwan would be unlivable in 10 years. and that was 20 years ago.

cuz back then everyone was attacking taiwan the same way u guys are attacking china for pollution and all these other superficial things. because all the factories were situated there. etc.

in 66 years they'll be nothing left to live... but they'll fix it before then

u guys watch too much fucking dystopic sci fi shit man.

it is the year 2070, pollution and corruption has made ALL of china UNLIVABLE.

uh huh. ok.

what's going to happen is they're going to transcend the industrial age and move onto the next step.

while place like vietnam and other poorer countries will go through what china is going through NOW. all the factories and shit will move there because labour will be cheaper there. and all you fuckers will be saying how corrupt and polluted those countries are, and how unlivable they'll be in 20 years.

as we speak, factories are already moving to poorer countries, because the cost of labour in china is already starting to get too high.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

mr happysilp... wtf

you think the middle east doesnt have water shortages?

u know... where water doesnt exist?

HELLO TECHNOLOGY FIXES THAT. israelis lead in water desalinization. and the middle east is full of that technology.

"Sea water desalination[edit]
Due to the water problems, as well as for future exports, China is building up its desalination technological abilities and plans to create an indigenous industry. Some cities have introduced extensive water conservation and recycling programs and technologies.[12]"

they'll FIX IT because they HAVE TO. with TECHNOLOGY which they have MONEY to invest in.

it's SIMPLE it just takes time. and by the way, if u haven't noticed, water shortage is kinda a GLOBAL problem. but there's plenty of water in the sea. that's why desalination technology is rising so fast. when it becomes cheaper to desalinize water vs import it, they'll switch to desalinization... it's not that hard to imagine man. there's whole oceans of water. we aint short on water.



anyone that is willing to bet, 10-15 years from now if you're still around on RS. lets have a bet
im willing to throw down 10,000 dollars canadian. ill put money on it.

the bet is the quality of life in china in 10-15 years will be improved vs 2014.
this means access to clean air, water will be improved... local corruption will be lower, average wage will be higher, etc. basically "closer to 1st world" than it is in 2014.

willing to take the bet?

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

The Chinese scientific revolution aims to tackle climate change. While in many parts of the world funding for basic research is decreasing, in China things are different. Funding is increasing in critical scientific areas. Perhaps more importantly, in China, scientists are respected. - The Chinese scientific revolution aims to tackle climate change | John Abraham | Environment | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2014/nov/28/chinese-scientific-revolution-tackle-climate-change)

Yah what do u numbskulls have to say now?

[SkinnyPupp]

Yah what do u numbskulls have to say now?

What do you care what a "numbskull" thinks? :lawl:

Edit: Anyway, instead of a troll post I'll just say that anything you see that reflects the China government in a positive light in any way is going to be at least 80-90% bullshit. They devote a lot of time, effort, and money into altering their image to the rest of the world.

I mean I get it, if you're just a clueless knob who thinks money is more important than anything else in the world, and if that's the case, china is obviously the place to do it (BTW why aren't you doing that?). But to tow the community party line and eat their propaganda... Sorry. You should know better.

[Mr.HappySilp]

The Chinese scientific revolution aims to tackle climate change. While in many parts of the world funding for basic research is decreasing, in China things are different. Funding is increasing in critical scientific areas. Perhaps more importantly, in China, scientists are respected. - The Chinese scientific revolution aims to tackle climate change | John Abraham | Environment | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2014/nov/28/chinese-scientific-revolution-tackle-climate-change)

Yah what do u numbskulls have to say now?

China also said a lot of things which isn't true. Such as the news they broadcast about the occupy hk claiming ppl are on the street celebrating National Day of the People's Republic of China. Which as we know is not true at all.

Anything you want to add Mr.ILoveChinaIWillLickTheirAss?