[CharlesInCharge]

PressTV - US suppressing satellite images which implicate Kiev in MH17 crash: Petras (http://www.presstv.ir/detail/374705.html)
...former US Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul in which he says Washington is “hiding” the truth about the downing of the Malaysia Airlines MH17."The US government has grown strangely quiet on the accusation that it was Russia or her allies that brought down the Malaysian airliner with a buck anti-aircraft missile."full article
The US may be suppressing satellite images which implicate the Kiev regime in last month’s downing of a Malaysian airliner over eastern Ukraine, according to an American political commentator.

Professor James Petras, who has written several books on the Latin America and Middle East, made the remarks in a phone interview with Press TV on Saturday, commenting on a statement by former US Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul in which he says Washington is “hiding” the truth about the downing of the Malaysia Airlines MH17.

On July 17, the Boeing 777-200 passenger plane crashed in Ukraine’s conflict zone, killing all 298 people aboard. According to US intelligence and military officials, the plane was hit by a Russian SA-series missile launched from eastern Ukraine.

“... US satellite photographs, which are very extensive, very thorough, probably have images that go contrary to its public policies and with its support for the regime in Kiev. The implications are the US doesn’t want the images to become public because they would discredit anti-Russian campaign that’s going on; it would discredit the government in Kiev, and would perhaps arouse the United Nations to call for a full investigation and demand the US turn over these satellite images,” Petras said.

“Furthermore, I think, the US is well-informed on the issue of the shrapnel that has been discovered in the cabin of the downed plane which suggests that a fighter plane or fighter planes were involved in downing the airliner. That would again point [the] finger to the Kiev regime,” he stated.

“So I think the denial of US imagery is a crucial factor in unraveling this controversy,” Petras noted.

In an article published by Voices of Liberty on Thursday, Ron Paul wrote, "The US government has grown strangely quiet on the accusation that it was Russia or her allies that brought down the Malaysian airliner with a buck anti-aircraft missile."

"It’s hard to believe that the US, with all of its spy satellites available for monitoring everything in Ukraine, that precise proof of who did what and when is not available," the former congressman said. “When evidence contradicts our government’s accusations, the evidence is never revealed to the public.”

Professor Petras said, “Ron Paul is in Washington and he’s an elected official. He has access to informants in Washington, including intelligence people that may disagree with [official] policy and find him a useful outlet to get their views expressed. I think he is usually well-informed. He has access to intelligence information. And, I think his making an issue of this is coherent with his general opposition to US militarism and intervention in conflicts overseas.”


Ron Paul: US 'hiding truth' on downed Malaysian Flight MH17
http://rt.com/usa/179284-ron-paul-mh17-ukraine/
http://i.imgur.com/3bQ43Ky.jpg



"It’s hard to believe that the U.S., with all of its spy satellites available for monitoring everything in Ukraine, that precise proof of who did what and when is not available," the former lawmaker and GOP presidential contender said.

"Too bad we can’t count on our government to just tell us the truth and show us the evidence," Paul added. "I’m convinced that it knows a lot more than it’s telling us."

Read more: http://thehill.com/policy/international/214750-ron-paul-us-hiding-truth-on-downed-malaysian-plane#ixzz39zLvbd89

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/140727134528-01-mh17-netherlands-horizontal-gallery.jpg

[JD¹³]

Professor James Petras, who has written several books on the Latin America and Middle East, made the remarks in a phone interview with Press TV on Saturday, commenting......

“Furthermore, I think, the US is well-informed on the issue of the shrapnel that has been discovered in the cabin of the downed plane which suggests that a fighter plane or fighter planes were involved in downing the airliner. That would again point [the] finger to the Kiev regime,” he stated.
Bullshit. The 'Professor' should stick to writing about 'Latin America and the Middle East' (whatever that means) and not be throwing out blind allegations about military weaponry he obviously has zero clue about. The SA-11 uses a proximity charge and fragmentation warhead just like many air-to-air missiles: that's not conclusive evidence. It's definitely not grounds to make an accusation that the Ukrainian Air Force shot it down.

This guy is taking Ron Paul's statement way out of context and in classic CiC style you're obscuring it even further. It was proven by the US intelligence community that the SAM was fired from inside rebel-controlled territory within the Ukraine quite a while ago. I support a lot of what Ron Paul says but I'm not sure where he's going with his original statement(s). Perhaps he's just upset that the US's focus has shifted to the situations in Israel/Palestine and Iraq without bringing the MH17 issue to a conclusion.

/thread

[sonick]

http://i.imgur.com/3bQ43Ky.jpg




That's not even Ron Paul's twitter handle.

[CorneringArtist]

Bullshit. The 'Professor' should stick to writing about 'Latin America and the Middle East' (whatever that means) and not be throwing out blind allegations about military weaponry he obviously has zero clue about. The SA-11 uses a proximity charge and shrapnel warhead just like many air-to-air missiles: that's not conclusive evidence. It's definitely not grounds to make an accusation that the Ukrainian Air Force shot it down.

This guy is taking Ron Paul's statement way out of context and in classic CiC style you're obscuring it even further. It was proven by the US intelligence community that the SAM was fired from inside rebel-controlled territory within the Ukraine quite a while ago. I support a lot of what Ron Paul says but I'm not sure where he's going with his original statement(s). Perhaps he's just upset that the US's focus has shifted to the situations in Israel/Palestine and Iraq without bringing the MH17 issue to a conclusion.

/thread

B-b-but the ZioAmericans have influence in military intelligence, so it's a false flag, right, RIGHT? Because whatever Chuckles reads is not 100%, not 200%, but 500% fact, this article is completely right. Sorry JD, but thanks to CiC, you've lost the argument already, because remember, he won't address you or your statements directly, unless it serves his cause.

OR for the person with common sense, and MUCH more importantly, critical thinking skills, this article is like Westboro Baptist completely misquoting the Bible to fuel their hateful agenda.

[Alby]

i noticed that CiC sources are mainly from presstv. what happens if presstv is nothing more than propaganda itself.....

[CharlesInCharge]

Propaganda? Where is the pentagon plane footage, why hide that? RT and PressTV are the only true news sources that exposed 911 lies.
Bullshit.

It was proven by the US intelligence community that the SAM was fired from inside rebel-controlled territory within the Ukraine quite a while ago.

/threadSo why is the US suppressing satellite images?
Where is this proof you speak of?


That's not even Ron Paul's twitter handle.A Lomac fan boy eh... figures.

[murd0c]

So why is the US suppressing satellite images?

and why the fuck are you making new thread's when you have your own??? I swear you should be stopped from being able to make new threads since you aint nothing but a bullshit wack job!!

[SoNaRWaVe]

Propaganda? Where is the pentagon plane footage, why hide that? RT and PressTV are the only true news sources that exposed 911 lies.


you mean RT and PressTV are the only news source that fits into your conspiracy theories and/or your agenda

[Lomac]

That's not even Ron Paul's twitter handle.

A Lomac fan boy eh... figures.

Uh... It's not. The Twitter account even says:

Ron Paul
@RonPaul_2012

News feed about GOP candidate Ron Paul & the Tea Party. Ron supports the Constitution, free markets, & sound money. Not authorized by Dr. Paul or any committee.

[CharlesInCharge]

Why are you putting doubt in this story? Do you want a ZioAmerican news source, here.
Ron Paul Says U.S. 'Likely Hiding Truth' About MH17 Crash
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/10/ron-paul-mh17-plane-crash_n_5665996.html

@SoNaRWaVe
Tell me your not a mental midget and think 911 was an inside job.

[Lomac]

you mean RT and PressTV are the only news source that fits into your conspiracy theories and/or your agenda

Not even. I used a PressTV Youtube video to prove one of my points and he still questioned it. :lol


BTW, CIC... your topic title is misleading. The PressTV articles states:
The US may be suppressing satellite images which implicate the Kiev regime in last month’s downing of a Malaysian airliner over eastern Ukraine, according to an American political commentator.

"May be" is a far cry from "is."

[CharlesInCharge]

So why not release the images? Are they waiting for the corpses to decompose first?

[Lomac]

Why are you putting doubt in this story? Do you want a ZioAmerican news source, here.
Ron Paul Says U.S. 'Likely Hiding Truth' About MH17 Crash
Ron Paul Says U.S. 'Likely Hiding Truth' About MH17 Crash (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/10/ron-paul-mh17-plane-crash_n_5665996.html)

Because it's all supposition. Even the original op-ed Ron Paul wrote doesn't state that it's fact; it's merely conjecture, which he admits to.

And even if the US does have clear satellite data on what happened, it's purely reasonable to assume that they're withholding the information because it contains information or technical secrets that they don't want getting out (ie: satellite range, camera capabilities, etc.)

[dangonay]

So why not release the images? Are they waiting for the corpses to decompose first?

Fuck off, goof.

[CharlesInCharge]

Because it's all supposition. Even the original op-ed Ron Paul wrote doesn't state that it's fact; it's merely conjecture, which he admits to.
You were putting doubt about Ron Paul saying these things... dont spam this thread I dont want members to lose interest in reading pages and pages of garbage as this is turning out to be.


And even if the US does have clear satellite data on what happened, it's purely reasonable to assume that they're withholding the information because it contains information or technical secrets that they don't want getting out (ie: satellite range, camera capabilities, etc.)
Satellite range? Its no secret that the US is watching the war zone, directing the Ukrainian forces and watching cross border activity with Russia.
Camera capabilities... why not reduce the resolution... you're a supposed image specialist as you claimed in the Boston Bombing thread.
There is no rational reason to suppress it other then that they're hiding their terrorist plot.

[Klondike]

Maybe it was the loominatee?

2spooky4me

[JD¹³]

So why is the US suppressing satellite images?
Where is this proof you speak of?
It's called OPSEC. Those images and their subsequent analysis are seen by people on a need to know basis, and you don't need to know. Just because you're not privy to the proof doesn't mean it doesn't exist :hotbaby:

The ZAF (Zio-Air Force) took down both MH370 and MH17, they also just pooped in your refrigerator. Posting this from a potato via 32 proxies as I'm on the run for treason for exposing this information.

[Lomac]

You were putting doubt about Ron Paul saying these things... dont spam this thread I dont want members to lose interest in reading pages and pages of garbage as this is turning out to be.

Uh, what? I was merely agreeing with Sonick's statement about how that Twitter account doesn't actually belong to Ron Paul.

Here's the difference between a fan-run account:
http://i.imgur.com/3bQ43Ky.jpg

and the real Twitter account:
Questions remain regarding the downed Malaysia Airlines plane. Too bad our gov't won't paint the full picture: Government Likely Hiding Truth in Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 Crash | Voices of Liberty, Powered by Ron Paul (http://bit.ly/1soGxWl)

Notice the difference in how it's written? "Questions remain" vs "US hiding truth." The deletion of the word "likely" between "US" and "hiding" goes a long way to discrediting.

Re: Spamming... Yeah, good luck with that. It began with the poorly worded topic title and has continued since.

Satellite range? Its no secret that the US is watching the war zone, directing the Ukrainian forces and watching cross border activity with Russia.
Camera capabilities... why not reduce the resolution... you're a supposed image specialist as you claimed in the Boston Bombing thread.
There is no rational reason to suppress it other then that they're hiding their terrorist plot.

Why bother trying to explain when you ignore anything presented to you that goes against your views? You claim to promote debate but everything I've seen since your first conspiracy post has plainly denied that fact.

[Ch28]

http://i.imgur.com/a0fZL4J.gif

[CharlesInCharge]

Veteranstoday always comes with the goods.
Ron Paul says US likely hiding MH17 truth
Ron Paul says US likely hiding MH17 truth | Veterans Today (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/08/10/ron-paul-says-us-likely-hiding-mh17-truth/)

[Ronin]

The absence of evidence isn't evidence.

[RRxtar]

Dispite CIC's reputation....


...I have a feeling hes right on this one.

Its unfortunate his fuctard-ism precedes him. Im sure somewhere in the mess of conspiracy nonsense he posts is a fair bit of truth.

[parm104]

I was lost but now I am found. Thank you Charlie-Boy

[SoNaRWaVe]

Why are you putting doubt in this story? Do you want a ZioAmerican news source, here.
Ron Paul Says U.S. 'Likely Hiding Truth' About MH17 Crash
Ron Paul Says U.S. 'Likely Hiding Truth' About MH17 Crash (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/10/ron-paul-mh17-plane-crash_n_5665996.html)

@SoNaRWaVe
Tell me your not a mental midget and think 911 was an inside job.

i am absolutely not sure what you mean with that comment.

[CharlesInCharge]

Was 911 an inside job? If your answer is
Yes = I agree
No = I think your brain matter is the size of a midget

I took this screen shot the day I saw it... the propaganda was hitting hard.
http://i.imgur.com/mi9xf12.jpg


Dispite CIC's reputation....


...I have a feeling hes right on this one.

Its unfortunate his fuctard-ism precedes him. Im sure somewhere in the mess of conspiracy nonsense he posts is a fair bit of truth.
Funny I dont remember you ever calling me out on any of my posts... I guess you're too smart and an important person to waste your time in disproving my claims.

[RRxtar]

Nah. I'm just an adult and don't have the time or patience to involve myself in Internet arguing or trolls. I just read things that interest me and don't get all emotional when something isn't right with the Internet

[CharlesInCharge]

A Thursday article in the New Straits Times, Malaysia's flagship English-language newspaper, charged the US- and European-backed Ukrainian regime in Kiev with shooting down Malaysian Airlines flight MH 17 in east Ukraine last month. Given the tightly controlled character of the Malaysian media, it appears that the accusation that Kiev shot down MH17 has the imprimatur of the Malaysian state.

KUALA LUMPUR:
US analysts conclude MH17 downed by aircraft
US analysts conclude MH17 downed by aircraft | New Straits Times (http://www.nst.com.my/node/20925)

INTELLIGENCE analysts in the United States had already concluded that Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down by an air-to-air missile, and that the Ukrainian government had had something to do with it.

This corroborates an emerging theory postulated by local investigators that the Boeing 777-200 was crippled by an air-to-air missile and finished off with cannon fire from a fighter that had been shadowing it as it plummeted to earth

“There have been two or three pieces of fuselage that have been really pockmarked with what almost looks like machinegun fire; very, very strong machinegun fire,” Bociurkiw said in the interview.

“Nobody before Haisenko had noticed that the projectiles had ripped through that panel from both its left side and its right side. This is what rules out any ground-fired missile,” Parry had said.
http://assets.nst.com.my/images/articles/0708NEWS18.transformed.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/eihYD0j.jpg

[Ball.J.Inder]

related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOEJGKusJb8

[4444]

KUALA LUMPUR:
US analysts conclude MH17 downed by aircraft
US analysts conclude MH17 downed by aircraft | New Straits Times (http://www.nst.com.my/node/20925)






http://assets.nst.com.my/images/articles/0708NEWS18.transformed.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/eihYD0j.jpg

that image could be perceived as being bullet holes, or it could be perceived as to be damaged incurred by the ground to air guided missle that is more likely to have bought it down.

the BUK missile system sends up guided rockets that, in this case, explode next to the target, there is shrapnel that will pierce the plane, hence these types of marks.

also, why on earth are you saying bullet holes, this isn't world war 2, planes don't shoot other planes down with regular guns anymore, if you want to shoot down a plane, air to air missile, as such you'd have a somewhat similar impact to a ground to air missile.

i'm no military expert, not by any stretch of the imagination, but i do have common sense, something CiC is evidently lacking, he'll just believe anything on the cracker conspiracy theory websites.

utter BS what CiC spews.

you can always find jesus' face in toast, doesn't mean he's anything more than your wild imagination.

[Alby]

Funny I dont remember you ever calling me out on any of my posts... I guess you're too smart and an important person to waste your time in disproving my claims.

that right there shows me that you always think you are right and would not open your mind for discussion or even accepts other peoples opinion. there is no point trying to debate or even discuss anything with you.

[RacingMetro92]

Was 911 an inside job? If your answer is
Yes = I agree
No = I think your brain matter is the size of a midget



This statement is why you're an idiot. If we don't agree with you, anything we say is dismissed. This is why no one can ever take anything chuck says with any weight because there's a refusal to acknowledge doubt of any kind of his "facts" when it's merely speculation. Until Charles acknowledges questions, I say we ban him from making new threads because they should be in his fight club thread.

So, back to the question I asked months ago after answering all of yours in your fight club thread: did the Holocaust happen or are you going to deny that too?

[4444]

CiC, i think this is the end for you. can a mod agree and ban teh troll. he is shown to be wrong day after day after day!!!

what a cracker

[JD¹³]

http://assets.nst.com.my/images/articles/0708NEWS18.transformed.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/eihYD0j.jpg
LOL! This is too rich. I'll just leave some actual 30mm cannon damage here.

http://www.afrc.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/070619-F-3849K-041.JPG
Source: http://www.afrc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123063402

It really is time to ban this fucking goof from making any new threads (or outright).

[CharlesInCharge]

Welcome to my ignore list.

If anyone is wondering why I started a new thread on this, its because I was banned for saying the same thing weeks ago in the other thread.
http://www.revscene.net/forums/696786-malaysian-airline-crash-ukraine-7.html#post8505440

[Lomac]

I'm pretty sure JD13 flies fighter jets in the air force, so if anyone knows what 30mm damage looks like, it'd be him...

[Hondaracer]

Shows what actual 30mm fire looks like

"Welcome to my ignore list"

Jesus, you're a clown. Maybe devote your life to somthing productive. At the end of the day even if you were right on an eighth of the shit you spew no ones gonna give a shit.

[CharlesInCharge]

Hondaracer added to ignore list.

Im sure he also has a magic ball to know the length of Ukrainian field grass and compare it to the bullet hole sizes to make that assessment.

[Presto]

Welcome to my ignore list.


...which we know is total BS. You end up reading it all. The ignore list is used as your personal, psychological pacifier for the times (often) that you get smacked with undeniable truth.

[CharlesInCharge]

http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/mh17cockpit-284x320.jpg

MH17 Shootdown ? The Investigation Continues | Veterans Today (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/08/05/mh17-shootdown-the-investigation-continues/)

[Lomac]

Im sure he also has a magic ball to know the length of Ukrainian field grass and compare it to the bullet hole sizes to make that assessment.

And you do?

[CharlesInCharge]

Why dont you first find a Harper Fellating news source that even talks about the riddled holes in the MH17, then come back here and post.

[RacingMetro92]

Or find an actual news source that's outside of one you've used because your're contradicting yourself by using PressTV/RT as a source when Lomac has posted something from that source and you denied it.

I don't get your deal. Someone did EXACTLY what you wanted (use a non "harper-fellating") news source and you STILL didn't accept it because it opposed your views.

You don't need a news source from SOMEONE IN THE FUCKING MILITARY (allegedly) who can SHOW what 30mm bullet holes look like. You know what that makes him? AN EXPERT. JD is more qualified than any tin foil news hat source you could ever post! Why? Because he has first hand experience and deals with this shit on the regular.

By ignoring him you've acknowledged to everyone here that you will never accept an alternative view. You're worse than the so called "Zionists" that "allegedly" hide the fact that 9/11 was an inside job and the holocaust was actually done by them to perpetuate sympathy for their world domination...or some shit like that. You'll never be taken seriously for this, so maybe you should keep to your own corner of RS and stop posting new threads that already have this content.

[CharlesInCharge]

I'll give you guys the narrative... the ZioAmericans have set this up.

Accuse Russia of shooting down the plane,

Put temporary sanctions on Russian (So far 500 billion+ of trade on the line? or Putin has already cut this through the US and EU) to scare him and have him lose support for Syria's Assad. (for building greater Isreal).

When needed blame the shoot down on a bunch of boobs (young "revolutionary" Ukrainian soldiers) which mistook the plane for a "Putin" military signal on the radar.

An enthusiastic prime minister (with headlines of this Zionist connected banker trying to resign! actually) innocently passing on dubious evidence to speed up their revolution against the "blood thirsty" great bear Russia.
Plus he was bullied into it by the replacement Nazi leader that's built like Frankenstein.


http://i.imgur.com/Ee1J8Tg.jpg
http://journal-neo.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/john-mccain-oleh-tyahnybok.jpg

Then keep trying to take over the world
btw they are desperate in Iraq too trying to oust the current Prime minister as ISIL is loosing ground.

Edit-

But Russsia could have an Ace up its sleeve which it may be keeping to its self right now. Good footage of the crash scene showing the new puppet Ukrainians responsible....
Interestingly what is hurting the ZioAmericans is the fact that this could push more major countries (part of the BRICKS group) to trade more commodities like food, and stay off the Petro Dollar!

[kunoman1]

Welcome to my ignore list.

If anyone is wondering why I started a new thread on this, its because I was banned for saying the same thing weeks ago in the other thread.
http://www.revscene.net/forums/696786-malaysian-airline-crash-ukraine-7.html#post8505440

You do know there was a reason why you were banned from the other thread... :rukidding:

[CharlesInCharge]

Calling people brainwashed for jumping the gun on Russians being the guilty party?

[Lomac]

Why dont you first find a Harper Fellating news source that even talks about the riddled holes in the MH17, then come back here and post.

http://www.newsweek.com/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-downed-supersonic-missile-expert-analysis-suggests-260483

There, that done... tell me more about this magic ball you own that supersedes a fighter pilot's knowledge of weapon damage...


The more I look at the photo, the more convinced I am that it's definitely not 30mm cannon fire.

Compare the typical Russian (and, by extension, Ukraine)'s ammo, the 30x113

http://i.imgur.com/cufyU2o.jpg

to the holes in the aluminum.

The following image is .223 ammunition blown through a chunk of aluminum

http://www.phossil.com/thom/SIG%20556/Frying%20Pan.jpg

[RacingMetro92]

I'll give you guys the narrative... the ZioAmericans have set this up.

Accuse Russia of shooting down the plane,

Put temporary sanctions on Russian (So far 500 billion+ of trade on the line? or Putin has already cut this through the US and EU) to scare him and have him lose support for Syria's Assad. (for building greater Isreal).

When needed blame the shoot down on a bunch of boobs (young "revolutionary" Ukrainian soldiers) which mistook the plane for a "Putin" military signal on the radar.

An enthusiastic prime minister (with headlines of this Zionist connected banker trying to resign! actually) innocently passing on dubious evidence to speed up their revolution against the "blood thirsty" great bear Russia.
Plus he was bullied into it by the replacement Nazi leader that's built like Frankenstein.


http://i.imgur.com/Ee1J8Tg.jpg
http://journal-neo.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/john-mccain-oleh-tyahnybok.jpg

Then keep trying to take over the world
btw they are desperate in Iraq too trying to oust the current Prime minister as ISIL is loosing ground.

Edit-

But Russsia could have an Ace up its sleeve which it may be keeping to its self right now. Good footage of the crash scene showing the new puppet Ukrainians responsible....
Interestingly what is hurting the ZioAmericans is the fact that this could push more major countries (part of the BRICKS group) to trade more commodities like food, and stay off the Petro Dollar!

The amount of speculation in this series of sentences is so insane I don't think anyone can deny it because if we do you'll still think you're right because of how highly and "right" your "sources" are.

This video is the first thing that came to my mind as soon as I finished reading that. I have never honestly read something where this is as appropriate as it's ever been. May whoever you call God have mercy on your soul.



May God Have Mercy On Your Soul - YouTube

[CharlesInCharge]

@Lomac
That one doesnt really serve Harper like the local girls we have in town. Find another source to win.

Also are doubting the American intelligence source and the Malaysian flagship, English news service for being believing this caliber size?

Misc large bullets compare to a hand.
http://i.imgur.com/qPBHNah.jpg
SydesJokes: Big Gun (Airplane Included) (http://sydesjokes.blogspot.ca/2010/09/big-gun-airplane-included.html)

[CharlesInCharge]

http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/5317089251-e1405974411652.jpg

The other thing is if Russia is saying they picked up a military plane leveling off to the airliner before it crashed, why doesnt the U.S. just release their satellite photos showing the sky was clear...

Skimming through the theories I'd say the mystery military jet rocketed the airliner then shot the cabin with bullets to disable the pilots and have it crash right over a pocket of ground for infiltrating into the Russian freedom fighters bases when recovery EU personal demand to section off the crash site.

The military jet being spotted next to the civilian could also double work for the excuse of new Ukrainian soldiers shooting the civilian one down.

[Lomac]

@Lomac
That one doesnt really serve Harper like the local girls we have in town. Find another source to win.

Also are doubting the American intelligence source and the Malaysian flagship, English news service for being believing this caliber size?

Misc large bullets compare to a hand.
http://i.imgur.com/qPBHNah.jpg
SydesJokes: Big Gun (Airplane Included) (http://sydesjokes.blogspot.ca/2010/09/big-gun-airplane-included.html)

Uh, that was kinda my point about 30mm ammo. The holes shown in the MH17 fuselage are too small to be 30x113 gun fire.

[Lomac]

http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/5317089251-e1405974411652.jpg

The other thing is if Russia is saying they picked up a military plane leveling off to the airliner before it crashed, why doesnt the U.S. just release their satellite photos showing the sky was clear...

Skimming through the theories I'd say the mystery military jet rocketed the airliner then shot the cabin with bullets to disable the pilots and have it crash right over a pocket of ground for infiltrating into the Russian freedom fighters bases when recovery EU personal demand to section off the crash site.

The military jet being spotted next to the civilian could also double work for the excuse of new Ukrainian soldiers shooting the civilian one down.

Or, and this is just a thought, Russia could release that information and basically discredit the USA and Europe in one swoop...

[CharlesInCharge]

what if Russia wants to drag this out and discredit them later.... also using the excuse to cut international trade threatening the Dollar.

So you think the intelligence services in the US could be mistaken?
http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/mh17cockpit.jpg

[Lomac]

Shrapnel damage:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a4/Haifa_car_damaged_by_shrapnel_July_17_2006.jpg

Looks like bullet holes, doesn't it?

Except - and here's the kicker - it's not.

[JD¹³]

I'd say the mystery military jet rocketed the airliner then shot the cabin with bullets to disable the pilots
http://static1.gamespot.com/uploads/original/1112/11123556/2604354-3777669238-3907593-8870966785-proxy

[CharlesInCharge]

@Lomac
You missed my question, apparently the Germans are saying the same thing.
Germans Say MH17 Shot Down by Ukie Migs | Veterans Today (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/31/germans-say-mh17-shot-down-by-ukie-migs/)

http://i.imgur.com/2yqaPY3.jpg

[CRS]

I'd say the mystery military jet rocketed the airliner then shot the cabin with bullets to disable the pilots.

You know, because, firing at missile at a commercial airliner with absolutely no defence/evasion/countermeasure mechanisms takes more than 1 go to disable it completely.

:fulloffuck:

It totally requires another approach just to off the pilots in the cabin instead of, you know, shooting out the engines.

[CharlesInCharge]

What if the missile only hit one engine, then it may be able to glide for sometime... deep and near the Russian boarder... away from an infiltration point where the crash scene can be taken over.
How far was this crash from the Ukrainian government enemy line? I dont know... looks like Im the only one trying to piece something together outside the propaganda sources.

[Ronin]

What if the missile only hit one engine, then it may be able to glide for sometime... deep and near the Russian boarder... away from an infiltration point where the crash scene can be taken over.
How far was this crash from the Ukrainian government enemy line? I dont know... looks like Im the only one trying to piece something together outside the propaganda sources.

Skimming through the theories I'd say the mystery military jet rocketed the airliner then shot the cabin with bullets to disable the pilots

What? WHAT? :suspicious:

Go home, CiC. You're drunk...and have watched Top Gun too many times. Stop it.

...yes, you can still watch the volleyball scene.

[Lomac]

@Lomac
You missed my question, apparently a German [is] saying the same thing.
Germans Say MH17 Shot Down by Ukie Migs | Veterans Today (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/31/germans-say-mh17-shot-down-by-ukie-migs/)

Fixed that for you.

What if the missile only hit one engine, then it may be able to glide for sometime... deep and near the Russian boarder... away from an infiltration point where the crash scene can be taken over.
How far was this crash from the Ukrainian government enemy line? I dont know... looks like Im the only one trying to piece something together outside the propaganda sources.

Okay, I'll humour this.

The Ukraine only has one fighter jet in service that has both a 30mm cannon and air-to-air missiles, the Russian built SU-25. The problem is that the R-60 AA missile contains a proximity warhead. The warhead is also a fragmentation, high explosive unit. These don't explode upon contact; they detonate within a preset distance of their target. The third thing is that they use semi-active homing radar detection.

This is also very similar to how the land based Buk SAM units work. The typical missile in these use semi-active homing radar and are armed with proximity fragmentation warheads.

FYI, most semi-active homing systems work on an intercept path, not a chase route.

So, whether MH17 was hit by a missile by an SU-25 or a Buk missile, it's going to display extremely similar body damage. You know, those "bullet holes" near the cockpit.

[CharlesInCharge]

So you think your conclusion is better then the intelligence services that have seen all the evidence?

[CorneringArtist]

Fixed that for you.



Okay, I'll humour this.

The Ukraine only has one fighter jet in service that has both a 30mm cannon and air-to-air missiles, the Russian built SU-25. The problem is that the R-60 AA missile contains a proximity warhead. The warhead is also a fragmentation, high explosive unit. These don't explode upon contact; they detonate within a preset distance of their target. The third thing is that they use semi-active homing radar detection.

This is also very similar to how the land based Buk SAM units work. The typical missile in these use semi-active homing radar and are armed with proximity fragmentation warheads.

FYI, most semi-active homing systems work on an intercept path, not a chase route.

So, whether MH17 was hit by a missile by an SU-25 or a Buk missile, it's going to display extremely similar body damage. You know, those "bullet holes" near the cockpit.

It should also be kept in mind that the reason a Su-25 carries a 30mm cannon is that it's intended for ground attack like an American A-10, and only has a top speed that is less than 100 km/h faster than a loaded Boeing 777. For it to carry air-to-air armaments would be a bit rare considering that a Su-27 fighter is more oriented for airspace intercept. So unless whoever decided that scrambling a Su-25 of all things was a good idea, the Buk SAM being the source of the attack seems a bit more plausible.

And for the record, forget all that "what-if" bullshit. Unless someone has video of the missile contrail, all we know is that the plane was hit, but we don't know from where.

Excuse my armchair piloting, but as an enthusiast of aviation, I thought I'd chime in.

[CRS]

What if the missile only hit one engine, then it may be able to glide for sometime... deep and near the Russian boarder... away from an infiltration point where the crash scene can be taken over.
How far was this crash from the Ukrainian government enemy line? I dont know... looks like Im the only one trying to piece something together outside the propaganda sources.

So there are a couple of fighter jets that Ukraine could have used. For convenience sake, let's say it was the MiG-29. It carries one R-27 and some R-73 missiles.

The R-27 is medium-to-long-range air-to-air missile that carries a warhead weight of 39kg.

The R-73 is a short-range air-to-air missile that carries a warhead weight of 16kg.

If EITHER of these missiles were to hit a 777, the engine is the least of your worries. I would be more worried about the instantaneous loss of control (fly-by-wire) that would be essentially render the plane inoperable. In addition, as a result of the explosion, shrapnel would likely cause punctures in the wings and ignite the fuel tanks on them. I highly suspect that the wing would not be able to survive this and the plane would likely break apart in the air.

[Lomac]

So you think your conclusion is better then the intelligence services that have seen all the evidence?

No, I think my conclusion matches the general thesis that's been widely accepted as what happened.

But given I haven't seen any official intelligence agency actually state what happened, it's a moot point to a loaded question.

I am also extremely interested as to what in thst post you feel is incorrect.

[CharlesInCharge]

Do you care to track down the German and US reports and see how credible they are?

Also what I think is incorrect in your post is the absence, or rather acknowledging the smoking gun evidence of Russia tracking a military place lining up to the airliner and the US withholding that satellite imagery to reveal the truth.

@CRS
Post is too long for me to read tonight.

[Lomac]

Do you care to track down the German and US reports and see how credible they are?

Also what I think is incorrect in your post is the absence, or rather acknowledging the smoking gun evidence of Russia tracking a military place lining up to the airliner and the US withholding that satellite imagery to reveal the truth.

"Evidence" that may or may not exist. What I'm postulating here is based on the physical evidence that does exist and that both you and I can see with our own eyes.

So, based solely on that information, do you think my theory is still incorrect?

[4444]

(part of the BRICKS group)

it's BRICs

Brazil
Russia
India
China

you suck at life CiC

[CharlesInCharge]

@Lomac
I think you should run your conclusions through the intelligence reports first then have us commit to reading your thesis.
Even the Malaysian government media have publish this report.. the least you can do is read it first and get into the technicalities.

One comparison you can do is size up the head of a pilot, and super impose that over the cabin panels. Size up the 30-33mm cannon diameter to that human head, and we can compare hole sizes.

The smoking gun is being withheld by the US. That tells the story there it self. Maybe Ron Paul's been directed to cue us in because Malaysia may go against the grain of ZioAmerica propaganda. That Malaysian reprint came out 4 days ago, Ron Paul's, only yesterday.

[4444]

i love two things:

CiC keeps on talking about intelligence reports as though he has them! what a fool

People who ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT come in, discuss rationally based on experience and knowledge, CiC banters on about cracker BS still...

this is so hilarious it's not even funny.

[Ronin]

The proof may or may not exist and therefore, you're all wrong, according to CiC.

Did I just sum up his whole argument?

[Soundy]

See my .sig, but replace "sebberry" with "CiC".

[RacingMetro92]

The proof may or may not exist and therefore, you're all wrong, according to CiC.

Did I just sum up his whole argument?

Bingo. Or when Gin Rummy talks in The Boondocks (I'd post the video but language is NSFW)

"I always say, the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence."

"Simply because you don't have evidence that something does exist does not mean that you have evidence that something doesn't exist."

"Well, what I'm saying is that there are known knowns and that there are known unknowns. But there are also unknown unknowns; things we don't know that we don't know."

In other words, his argument can be summed up as what you said Ronin. Basically, he's allowed to pull whatever shit out of his ass (unknown, unknowns) he wants and he's right, and any physical proof we pull makes us wrong regardless of its validity.

[Lomac]

@Lomac
I think you should run your conclusions through the intelligence reports first then have us commit to reading your thesis.
Even the Malaysian government media have publish this report.. the least you can do is read it first and get into the technicalities.

One comparison you can do is size up the head of a pilot, and super impose that over the cabin panels. Size up the 30-33mm cannon diameter to that human head, and we can compare hole sizes.

The smoking gun is being withheld by the US. That tells the story there it self. Maybe Ron Paul's been directed to cue us in because Malaysia may go against the grain of ZioAmerica propaganda. That Malaysian reprint came out 4 days ago, Ron Paul's, only yesterday.

The data on the black box is likely still under analysis, so how can any intelligence agency issue an official report on what happened? THEY CAN'T.

So again I ask, based on the physical information we both have, what's wrong with my conclusion?

BTW, there's no such thing as a 33mm calibre, nor a 30 odd 33. Not sure where that came from...

[supremematt85]

Why hasn't CiC been banned yet?

[Soundy]

Why hasn't CiC been banned yet?

We need someone to make the rest of us look/feel normal.

Even asian_XL needs to feel normal sometimes.

[CharlesInCharge]

The data on the black box is likely still under analysis, so how can any intelligence agency issue an official report on what happened? THEY CAN'T.

So again I ask, based on the physical information we both have, what's wrong with my conclusion?

BTW, there's no such thing as a 33mm calibre, nor a 30 odd 33. Not sure where that came from...For the 100th time, go read these reports then make your final thesis. Stop spamming or I'll keep you on my ignore list.

[RRxtar]

I don't understand why you all don't just ignore CIC. You all keep saying he should go away but you all keep feeding him reasons to keep posting

Just ignore him. If everyone stopped encouraging him he'll eventually get bored.

[Energy]

Is it possible to just prevent him from starting new threads all the time? Give him his own thread where all his BS ranting and speculation can go.

[CharlesInCharge]

Why dont we just ban CIC because we are mental midgets.

[Ronin]

Its more that you argue with one set of standards while listening to arguments with another. People here have made reasonable points while yours just come from crazy people and thin fucking air.

[Presto]

My doctor is telling me to lay off on RS. CiC is grossly exceeding my daily recommended intake of iron(y), and making me split my sides.

[Energy]

Why dont we just ban CIC because we are mental midgets.

That's rich coming from a person who is so close-minded, stubborn and unreasonable.

What you're doing is not called smart or intelligent. Everything you say is irrational, incoherent and poorly presented. Your delusional rants are hurting your cause because everything you say is plain crazy.

Actually... I think that you are actually pro Israel and everything you're doing now is on purpose to make us think that people that support Palestine or whatever you claim to be doing are all lunatics. Well played.

[4444]

Stop spamming or I'll keep you on my ignore list.

THE FUCKING IRONY!!!!!!!!

who ISN'T on his ignore list... which is bypassed by him opening up another screen to see what the ignored have posted.

fucking moron...

[JD¹³]

Damnit he didn't take the bait! Troll fail http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-80ad50lmoU8/USvZ-Yz-bqI/AAAAAAAABIk/BaHQMWi0lSo/s1600/troll_face_sad.jpg

[Soundy]

Hey, I'm always skeptical of Chuckles, where's my kudos??

[Soundy]

Okay sure, it's more blatant derision than skepticism, but...

[4444]

Wow, finally got to read some recent reports from parallel investigations. Never thought I'd say it but kudos to you Chucky for being skeptical. You might be right!

link to reports.

are these reports masquerading as opinion, or are they backed up by fact?

Arash only likes opinion pieces... opinion pieces by whack jobs and inbreds

[JD¹³]

The official inquiry has released it's findings which give the explanation we were all expecting. MH17 was shot down by a Russian made BUK surface-to-air-missile system fired from inside rebel controlled territory in Ukraine.

MH17 crash report: Dutch investigators confirm Buk missile hit plane - live updates | World news | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/oct/13/mh17-crash-report-ukraine-live-updates)

And here's a video just for Chucky, detailing with this thing called 'evidence', how the missile killed everyone on the flight deck instantly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjySlZUHNso

A very sad and senseless day for all the victims and their families.

[parm104]

How have you not been institutionalized yet?

[Lomac]

So you think your conclusion is better then the intelligence services that have seen all the evidence?

Turns out it's better than your conclusion.

[Hondaracer]

There is a interesting doc on Netflix right now called "why planes disappear"

Most of it wont be new to anyone who paid attention to these Malaysian airline events but definitely some interesting g stuff in the way they track planes etc