[Presto]

This has been blowing up all over the news, and it's so big that the President got involved. In case you've been living in a cave, the quick summary is an unarmed, black kid was gunned down by a cop, and people are rightly pissed. I see the other thread started by CiC, but I'd like to start a thread where I don't have to see mention of Zionists or lizard people.

This shooting happened Saturday, and there is still no info from PD regarding any details. Fortunately, the higher-ups have managed to calm things down by swapping in the Highway Patrol, along with their captain, Ron Johnson. It'll be interesting to see how this all unfolds.

This article I quickly Googled seems to sum up what's been happening:

FERGUSON, Mo (http://www.torontosun.com/2014/08/13/violence-erupts-again-after-killing-of-black-missouri-teen). - Missouri's governor moved to ease tensions on Thursday after days of racially charged protests over the police shooting of an unarmed black teenager, putting the African-American captain of the Highway Patrol in charge of security in the St. Louis suburb of Ferguson.

Captain Ron Johnson, who grew up in Ferguson, told reporters he would take a "different approach" to policing after complaints that officers used heavy-handed tactics, arresting dozens of protesters and using teargas and pepper pellets to break up crowds.

Protesters filled the streets for a fifth night on Thursday in the mostly black suburb of Ferguson and also assembled in other U.S. cities following the death of 18-year-old Michael Brown last weekend.


The mood was boisterous but peaceful, even festive at times, in sharp contrast to tense nightly standoffs between heavily armed riot police flanked by armored cars and angry protesters, as well as episodes of looting, vandalism and violence.

Thousands of demonstrators, including more white protesters than on previous evenings, gathered late into the night near the site of Saturday's shooting.

In sharp contrast to Wednesday night's heavy deployment by riot police, Captain Johnson and a handful of African-American officers without body armor walked among the crowd.

"We just want to be able to come and demonstrate together without the fear of being shot. It's that simple," said 53-year-old protester Cat Daniels, an Iraq veteran. "What you see tonight is people coming together. When that kid was killed the hurt and the pain was real."

In the forecourt of a gas station burned out during rioting earlier this week, a cowboy rode a horse and a group of children danced on pavement covered in chalk drawings with the words: "Now the world knows your name, RIP Mike."

Elsewhere drivers honked horns and waved signs in solidarity and one group of demonstrators even took to the streets on a car-sized replica of the fictional steam locomotive Thomas The Tank Engine.

"It's because of this young man right here," Captain Johnson told a CNN reporter, holding up a picture of Brown to shouts of approval from protesters around him. "It's about the justice for everyone."

The protests have cast a spotlight on racial tensions in greater St. Louis, where civil rights groups have complained in the past that police racially profiled blacks, arrested a disproportionate number of blacks and had racist hiring practices.

Brown's shooting galvanized a national moment of silence and rallies in other U.S. cities.

In New York, a large crowd briefly overwhelmed a small police presence in Union Square park, forcing officers to scramble to close one of Manhattan's major thoroughfares. Local media showed a handful of protesters being arrested.

In St. Louis, CNN footage showed hundreds of people peacefully assembled in the shadow of the iconic Gateway Arch, Brown's mother and other family members among them.

Seeking to defuse the situation earlier on Thursday, U.S. President Barack Obama had called on police to respect peaceful demonstrations.

Missouri Governor Jay Nixon said Ferguson lately "has looked a little bit more like a war zone, and that is unacceptable."

Police have pledged to do better but have also justified the tough tactics, saying they have responded to the threat of violence during protests.

"WHAT'S HIS NAME?"

Protesters have decried what they say is a lack of transparency by police investigating Saturday's shooting, including the refusal to release the officer's name.

On Thursday night in Ferguson, around 200 demonstrators chanted, "what's his name? what's his name?'" at Johnson and the St. Louis County police chief, Jon Belmar.

Police said they plan to release on Friday the name of the officer who shot Brown, according to CNN and Los Angeles Times reports.

Some critics have also called for St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney Bob McCullough to be removed from the case.

U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder said in a statement that police had accepted an offer of technical assistance from the Justice Department "to help conduct crowd control and maintain public safety without relying on unnecessarily extreme displays of force."

The Justice Department, the FBI and the St. Louis County prosecutor's office are all investigating Brown's death.

A law enforcement official told Reuters that Holder spoke with Michael Brown's parent's by phone as they and their lawyers visited the U.S. attorney's office in Missouri.

Holder expressed his personal condolences for their son's death and promised the department would conduct a full, independent civil rights investigation, the official said.

Early on Thursday, a member of the Anonymous hacker activist collective tweeted the name of a person alleged to be the police officer who shot Brown. But police and other Anonymous tweeters said the activist had named the wrong person.

There is little clarity on what occurred during Saturday's incident. Police have said that Brown struggled with the officer who shot and killed him. The officer involved in the shooting was injured during the incident and was treated in a hospital for swelling on the side of his face, they said.

But some witnesses have said that Brown held up his hands and was surrendering when he was shot multiple times in the head and chest.

[SpartanAir]

Anonymous is involved.

Anonymous takes action to protest police shooting of unarmed teen | Death and Taxes (http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/226209/anonymous-takes-action-to-protest-police-shooting-of-unarmed-teen/)

Anonymous - #OpFerguson - YouTube

And they released the identity of the officer who killed him, allegedly.

Anonymous releases alleged identity of Ferguson officer who shot Michael Brown | Death and Taxes (http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/226454/anonymous-releases-identity-of-ferguson-officer-who-shot-michael-brown/)

[Presto]

Anonymous are assclowns:


They urged the citizens of Ferguson, Mo., to confront the police in the streets. They caused the city’s web servers to crash, forcing officials to communicate by text. They posted the names and address of the county police chief’s family. And then on Thursday they released what they said was the name of the police officer who killed Michael Brown, an unarmed 18-year-old black man, on Saturday.

Members of Anonymous — the shadowy, snide international collective of hackers and online activists — have played a key role in the growing confrontation outside St. Louis over Mr. Brown’s death, goading and threatening the authorities, and calling the effort Operation Ferguson.

Operations in the collective’s decade-long history have included taking down the World Cup website to protest poverty, helping identify assailants in a rape case in Ohio, cheering on the Occupy Wall Street movement and carrying out coordinated cyberassaults on repressive foreign governments. But this one ran into trouble faster than most.

The St. Louis police said on Twitter that the name given out was wrong, and that the man was not even a police officer. Within Anonymous there was an unusual amount of dissent. In interviews, in private chat channels and on Twitter, members accused those who had initially posted details of producing faulty information and putting one another in harm’s way by openly chatting about their methods online.

On Thursday, Twitter suspended @TheAnonMessage, the account that had posted the dubious information about the officer, although Twitter officials declined to say why. Those behind the account said in an email that they would post information from a backup account, @TheAnonMessage2, while other Twitter accounts affiliated with Anonymous tried to distance themselves from the post.

“But for the record, one last time. Operation Ferguson has NOT, repeat NOT released the name of Mike Brown’s killer, nor have we claimed to,” the individual behind the Operation Ferguson account said on Twitter.

Gabriella Coleman, an anthropologist who studies Anonymous and teaches at McGill University in Montreal, said she was taken aback that members of Anonymous would be so quick to release unverified information, and would speak so openly about their methods in online chat channels.

“My jaw was dropping,” Ms. Coleman said, reading members’ communications. “I was surprised because what I was seeing was suggestive but not definitive. Anonymous tends to care about its image quite a bit, and if they were wrong, it would be really bad.”

In private chat channels early Thursday, she said, members argued about the release of a photo of a man who resembled one of the officers at the scene of Mr. Brown’s shooting.

Some of it was reminiscent of past Anonymous campaigns, such as that prompted by a rape case in Steubenville, Ohio, and another three years ago in Manhattan, when hackers identified a high-ranking police officer who pepper-sprayed Occupy Wall Street protesters.

In the Ferguson case, many were drawn to the Anonymous campaign after Tef Poe, a St. Louis rapper, began posting live video and news updates to his Twitter, Vine and Instagram feeds this week. By Monday, the Operation Ferguson Twitter account had been set up, and prominent members of Anonymous had joined the effort.

Members assert that the organization is not a group but a loose collective working to advance similar ideals — but sometimes contradictory ones. While Anonymous espouses privacy, its members also use the release of others’ personal information as a tactic in cases where they believe the authorities are not acting in the public interest, or the news media has not released pertinent information. Members are quick to condemn any individual who claims to speak for the entire collective, and dissent and infighting are common.

Members also sought to explain the internal bickering and uncoordinated communications.

“For those new to Anonymous, it’s a global collective of millions of autonomous individuals and groups,” an Operation Ferguson post on Twitter said. “Each is responsible for themselves only.”

Since a prominent Anonymous hacker, Hector Xavier Monsegur, became a federal informant more than two years ago, members of the collective have taken great pains to use Internet security and anonymity software tools.

Some members were desperate in their pleas this week that the man’s photo not be released until more definitive information had been gathered. Ultimately, some members held a vote and decided to release the photo.

But within hours, many had backtracked. Some openly said the “dox” — a hacking term for the release of an individual’s personal information — had been wrong. “The original dox were faulty, it happens, an excess of zeal,” one Anonymous member said in a direct message on Twitter.

The infighting seemed to have taken its toll. Those behind the @TheAnonMessage2 account, who were behind the initial disclosures, had grown considerably more circumspect.

“ANNOUNCEMENT: We are ceasing any future dox releases until further notice,” they posted on Twitter.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/15/us/ferguson-case-roils-collective-called-anonymous.html?_r=0

[underscore]

Nothing like protesting violence by using even more excessive violence. And nobody even knows for sure wtf happened (as of right now).

Fucking idiots.

[multicartual]

No protests when it's just another black on black murder

Since Trayvon Martin Was Shot, About 480 Blacks Have Been Murdered in Chicago (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/06/06/1214222/-Since-Trayvon-Martin-Was-Shot-About-480-Blacks-Have-Been-Murdered-in-Chicago)

[Manic!]

I don't understand why cops are wearing camouflage in a city street. I think they fail to understand how camouflage works. Also what the hell are they trying to hide from?


http://cdn29.elitedaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/ferguson-police-2.jpg

[underscore]

Because it's the colour of the gear they already have? Or did you expect them to go shopping first and find something with a more urban motif?

[CharlesInCharge]

repost
I uploaded a good analysis on this. (video)
http://www.revscene.net/forums/697397-civil-rights-violations-death-black-teen-micheal-brown.html

[Manic!]

Because it's the colour of the gear they already have? Or did you expect them to go shopping first and find something with a more urban motif?

Why would they buy camouflage in the first place they are cops. Only time you need camouflage is when you want to sneak up on something.


I have a feeling it's military surplus and they wear it because it looks cool.

[4444]

this is tough as i've not been to any 'hoods' but st louis is a dump, one of the most violent black areas in the US. high unemployment, low education, lots of drugs, violence and gangs.

generally, i'd say that if you got shot by a cop, generally you probably did something slightly dodgy - yes, there are overzealous, racist cops who beat helpless ppl, but generally with the shit they would have to put up in a shit hole like St. louis, i'd err on the side of shoot first, ask questions later. it is a shame life in america has come to this, but the fact is that it has.

if people were working hard and living their lives, they'd be more interested in their lives and moving on with things.

it is a terrible shame that someone died, but we don't know the story, and as multicartual said, no one riots when black thugs shoot down other black thugs. they're just looking for someone to blame for their shitty lives. the only person to blame is in the mirror

[multicartual]

I hate watching or hearing about this shit because it is 100% human misery on display

[parm104]

No protests when it's just another black on black murder

Since Trayvon Martin Was Shot, About 480 Blacks Have Been Murdered in Chicago (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/06/06/1214222/-Since-Trayvon-Martin-Was-Shot-About-480-Blacks-Have-Been-Murdered-in-Chicago)

I don't see how anyone in their right mind could even contrast a gangster killing a gangster with a police involved shooting. The ONLY similarity there is the notion that black life is cheap. And that can only be made if we are assuming the officer is guilty of wrong-doing.

I wasn't there so I'm not going to get into the assumption game of acting and pretending like I know whether the officer involved was in the right or wrong. However, when a young man passes away, due to a police officer firing a weapon on him while unarmed, citizens should get together and try to figure out what happened and what is going on.

The main difference in your contrast is when you have a gangster killing another gangster or even an innocent by-stander, the gangster doesn't owe any duty to society. Well, technically we all owe one another the duty to be good, law abiding citizens but we're not all sworn to serve and protect each other. Police officers are paid to do this job and are trusted to do this job. If an officer is in the wrong for a civilian shooting, of course accountability must be enforced.

To call these people idiots for getting together and protesting against innocent children being murdered by police officers is absurd. Again, we don't know what happened and we don't know what the outcome of the investigation is. But it still truly boggles my mind for one to say the peaceful protestors who are asking to be heard and have something done about this incident are idiots.

As Presto said, this is clearly a huge issue or else we wouldn't be having the FBI investigating nor would the President be getting involved.

Why would they buy camouflage in the first place they are cops. Only time you need camouflage is when you want to sneak up on something.


I have a feeling it's military surplus and they wear it because it looks cool.

It kind of is military surplus but not exactly. The Pentagon provides police force with this gear and force is required to use it within one year. So why not? lol

[7seven]

Depending on the jurisdiction, some counties/citys outfit their ERT/SWAT in surplus tactical uniforms from various branches of the US military due to county/city budget issues instead of buying new more traditional all black/navy blue tactical uniforms more traditionally used by police forces.

I think the most idiotic thing was an article on CBC I saw on this saying that the police should not be able to use automatic weapons and tactical vehicles to respond to these riots as it seems too "military". When you have violent protest where the protesters are violent and arming themselves with molotov cocktails and other weapons, keeping in mind a number of these individuals also have their own firearms and automatic weapons potentially, you have to respond with a show of force and be prepared IMO. This ain't rainbows and unicorns.

Oh and can we just ban CIC from this thread to prevent it from getting out of hand and off track in advance, he can keep to his own thread to talk about how this is the lizard peoples fault.

[SkinnyPupp]

Depending on the jurisdiction, some counties/citys outfit their ERT/SWAT in surplus tactical uniforms from various branches of the US military due to county/city budget issues instead of buying new more traditional all black/navy blue tactical uniforms more traditionally used by police forces.

I think the most idiotic thing was an article on CBC I saw on this saying that the police should not be able to use automatic weapons and tactical vehicles to respond to these riots as it seems too "military". When you have violent protest where the protesters are violent and arming themselves with molotov cocktails and other weapons, keeping in mind a number of these individuals also have their own firearms and automatic weapons potentially, you have to respond with a show of force and be prepared IMO. This ain't rainbows and unicorns.

Oh and can we just ban CIC from this thread to prevent it from getting out of hand and off track in advance, he can keep to his own thread to talk about how this is the lizard peoples fault.
He's already banned from this thread. He has his own in Fight Club

[yray]

one group of demonstrators even took to the streets on a car-sized replica of the fictional steam locomotive Thomas The Tank Engine.

Any pics?

[Gumby]

^
Haha that's all you took from the article? :)

[MG1]

Being black in America. None of us will ever understand it. It's a sad fact that one is labeled before they're given a chance. All the prominent/famous/respected blacks combined will not change people's perception of a black male. I know a lot of First Nations individuals and they struggle with this as well. At the same time, they're not helping themselves. The images of the negative, so strong.

Thank god Asians are just known for being cheap and bad drivers.

[Hondaracer]

You know why racism will never cease to exist?

Because black people are black, and white people are white.

[Ronin]

They named the cop that shot Michael Brown: Darren Wilson. Well, they've fucked it up several times before so let's see if this is the right guy.

Also, Brown was apparently caught on camera robbing a convenience store and shoving the clerk prior to his encounter with the police.

[4444]

They named the cop that shot Michael Brown: Darren Wilson. Well, they've fucked it up several times before so let's see if this is the right guy.

Also, Brown was apparently caught on camera robbing a convenience store and shoving the clerk prior to his encounter with the police.

There's no smoke without fire

[PiuYi]

I have a feeling it's military surplus and they wear it because it looks cool.

because it is

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/09/us/war-gear-flows-to-police-departments.html?smid=pl-share&_r=0

[hchang]

There's always two sides to every story.

Media always blows shit out of proportion and same with the families involved, since in the US you can sue for (quite a bit in) damages. Everybody wants a free lunch.

[Vale46Rossi]

=/

[Presto]

Latest update. Looks like the name of the cop has been revealed. Police are trying to justify the shooting by reporting the victim is a robbery suspect:


Teen killed in Ferguson, Mo., was suspect in robbery, police say (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/ferguson/article20073213/)

A suburban St. Louis police chief on Friday identified the officer whose fatal shooting of an unarmed black teenager ignited days of heated protests, and released documents alleging the teen was killed after a robbery in which he was suspected of stealing a $48.99 box of cigars.

Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson released several police reports and documents during a news conference where he also identified the officer involved as Darren Wilson, who has been on administrative leave since he shot 18-year-old Michael Brown on Aug. 9.

Brown and his friend, Dorian Johnson, were suspected of taking the cigars from a convenience store in Ferguson that morning, according to police reports. Jackson said Wilson went to the area after a call to police reporting a “strong-arm” robbery just before noon. He said a dispatcher gave a description of the suspect, and that Wilson encountered Brown a few minutes before another officer arrived.

Jackson said Wilson is a six-year veteran of the police department, but he refused to release any other details about the officer.

The family’s attorney, Benjamin Crump, accused police of trying to draw attention away from Brown’s death. He said Brown’s parents were “incensed” by what he calls “the old game of smoke and mirrors.”

“It’s bad enough they assassinated him, and now they’re trying to assassinate his character,” Crump said.

Johnson acknowledged to the FBI and other investigators that he and Brown went to the store and “that he did take cigarillos,” his attorney, Freeman Bosley, told MSNBC.

Bosley said he was aware of security video from the store but had not seen it.

Police released security video, dated Aug. 9, that appears to show a man wearing a ball cap, shorts and white T-shirt grabbing a much shorter man by his shirt near the store’s door. A police report alleges that Brown grabbed a man who had come from behind the store counter by his shirt and “forcefully pushed him back” into a display rack.

Brown’s uncle, Bernard Ewing, questioned whether Wilson really believed Brown was a suspect. He noted Johnson’s account that the officer told the two young men to get out of the street and onto the sidewalk, and that Brown had his hands up when he was shot.

“If he’s a robbery suspect, they would have had the lights on,” Ewing said. “If you rob somebody, you would tell them, ‘Get on the ground’ or something, not, ‘Get off the sidewalk.’

“It still doesn’t justify shooting him when he puts his hands up,” he added. “You still don’t shoot him in the face.”

Brown’s death has sparked several days of clashes with furious protesters in the city. The mood was quelled on Thursday after the governor turned oversight of the protests over to the state Highway Patrol. State troopers walking side-by-side with thousands of peaceful protesters replaced the image of previous nights: police in riot gear and armoured tanks.

But the police chief’s announcement Friday was met with immediate disbelief and anger by several dozen community members who also attended the news conference, which was hastily held at a gas station burned during a night of looting earlier in the week in Ferguson, a town of 21,000 that is nearly 70 per cent black and patrolled by a nearly all-white police force.

“He stopped the wrong one, bottom line,” yelled Tatinisha Wheeler, a nurse’s aide who was at the news conference.

A couple dozen protesters began marching, chanting “Hands up, don’t shoot” and “What do we want? Justice! When do we want it? Now!”

Police have said Brown was shot after an officer encountered him and another man on the street during a routine patrol. They say one of the men pushed the officer into his squad car, then physically assaulted him in the vehicle and struggled with the officer over the officer’s weapon. At least one shot was fired inside the car before the struggle spilled onto the street, where Brown was shot multiple times, according to police.

Dorian Johnson has told media a different story. He said an officer ordered him and Brown onto the sidewalk, then grabbed his friend’s neck and tried to pull him into the car before brandishing his weapon and firing. He said Brown started to run and the officer pursued him, firing multiple times.

Tensions in Ferguson boiled over after a candlelight vigil Sunday night, as looters smashed and burned businesses in the neighbourhood, where police have repeatedly fired tear gas and smoke bombs.

By Thursday, there was a dramatic shift in the atmosphere after Governor Jay Nixon assigned protest oversight to Highway Patrol Capt. Ron Johnson, who is black and grew up near Ferguson. He marched alongside protesters.

“We’re here to serve and protect,” Johnson said. “We’re not here to instil fear.”

The streets were filled with music, free food and even laughter. When darkness fell – the point at which previous protests have grown tense – no uniformed officers were in sight outside the burned-out QuikTrip convenience store, which had become a flashpoint for standoffs between police and protesters.

“All they did was look at us and shoot tear gas,” Pedro Smith, who has participated in the nightly protests, said Thursday. “This is totally different. Now we’re being treated with respect.”

The more tolerant response came as U.S. President Barack Obama spoke publicly for the first time about the shooting – and the subsequent violence. Obama said there was “no excuse” for violence either against the police or by officers against peaceful protesters.

Attorney-General Eric Holder has said federal investigators have interviewed witnesses to the shooting.

[7seven]

Video released in store robbery - YouTube (http://youtu.be/t_ErCzbXOxU?list=UUupvZG-5ko_eiXAupbDfxWw)

Video of the robbery.

[multicartual]

Video released in store robbery - YouTube (http://youtu.be/t_ErCzbXOxU?list=UUupvZG-5ko_eiXAupbDfxWw)

Video of the robbery.


A "gentle giant" indeed

[Ronin]

If the cop in fact shot the kid while he was surrendering, then regardless of what Michael Brown did, that's not right. If the cops want people to comply with arrest and not resist, they have to have the restraint not to play executioner just because they can.

However, does it change everything if Michael Brown robbed that store? Well, that means he isn't the nice kid everyone says he is. If the cop was trying to stop him as a link to the robbery and he resisted? That changes all the perspectives on this case.

[capt_slo]

Video released in store robbery - YouTube (http://youtu.be/t_ErCzbXOxU?list=UUupvZG-5ko_eiXAupbDfxWw)

Video of the robbery.

Robbery Had Nothing to Do with Lethal Shooting, Ferguson Police Chief Says
http://www.newsweek.com/police-name-officer-who-shot-mike-brown-darren-wilson-264788

I don't care if he stole $50 worth of cigars or $5000, it doesn't justify shooting him.

I also can't take any sympathy for an officer who fires from inside his vehicle at an unarmed person as I really don't see how his life is in enough danger. Tazing? Yes. Pepper spray? Yes. Close range gunfire? :suspicious:

[Presto]

EDIT: see above.

[underscore]

Supposedly he was reaching for the officers gun which resulted in the shooting. The officer mentioned also has no prior misconduct reports.

Why would they buy camouflage in the first place they are cops. Only time you need camouflage is when you want to sneak up on something.


I have a feeling it's military surplus and they wear it because it looks cool.

Not everything they do is in an urban environment, maybe you've never left downtown but in some areas there are trees and shit that are still within their jurisdiction where they could potentially have to be somewhat stealthy. Do you want them buying 18 different uniforms for every possible occasion?

[Ludepower]

I usually ignore police custody deaths because 99% of the time the victim did something to provoke it.

Havn't we learned...do not resist.
You do not give officers one bit of an excuse to use lethal force. Put your head down and hands behind your back. You'll have your day in court.

[Ronin]

Well, that's that then. The cop just stopped him because he's black rather than him being a robbery suspect?

C'mon, 'Murica.

[RRxtar]

One side of the story is the 2 guys were beating up on the cop trying to grab his gun and the cop shot them

The other side of the story is the cop told the 2 kids to move and as they were walking away complying, with their hands up, the cop shot Brown.

Somewhere in the middle is the truth. What we know is the cop was taken to hospital for treatment for the assault, and the kid robbed a store like a tough guy earlier.


Perhaps the guys were beating up on the cop, when the cop pulled his gun to shoot in self defense, the kid quickly backed off as if to surrender but it was too late

[parm104]

Edited for the link: I missed the above link and wanted to mention that the police officer in question did not know at the time that Brown was a robbery suspect. He had stopped him from jaywalking.

If this ever goes to court, this will be quit a challenge for both sides bringing in all the different sources of evidence.

[capt_slo]

One side of the story is the 2 guys were beating up on the cop trying to grab his gun and the cop shot them

The other side of the story is the cop told the 2 kids to move and as they were walking away complying, with their hands up, the cop shot Brown.

Somewhere in the middle is the truth. What we know is the cop was taken to hospital for treatment for the assault, and the kid robbed a store like a tough guy earlier.


Perhaps the guys were beating up on the cop, when the cop pulled his gun to shoot in self defense, the kid quickly backed off as if to surrender but it was too late

Here's the thing with cops, it's not supposed to be "too late" to surrender. You've got one or two bullets in you, you realize you were an idiot and you yell "I surrender" and throw your hands up.

We're not talking about a battlefield in a war torn country, this is middle 'Murica in question. That cop has the responsibility to calm his ass down and not pump more rounds into a suspect who has allegedly moved from aggressive to submissive.

[underscore]

Well, that's that then. The cop just stopped him because he's black rather than him being a robbery suspect?

C'mon, 'Murica.

He stopped him because he was walking in the middle of the road fucking up traffic.

Here's the thing with cops, it's not supposed to be "too late" to surrender. You've got one or two bullets in you, you realize you were an idiot and you yell "I surrender" and throw your hands up.

We're not talking about a battlefield in a war torn country, this is middle 'Murica in question. That cop has the responsibility to calm his ass down and not pump more rounds into a suspect who has allegedly moved from aggressive to submissive.

A lot of 'murica is as bad if not worse than a war-torn country right now. While being assaulted and having someone grab for your gun, in the milliseconds you have to react, do you really think many people can calm down fully and assess the risks involved in leaving the person who assaulted you still capable of harming you when you have no idea what weapons he may have?

[parm104]

We're not talking about a battlefield in a war torn country, this is middle 'Murica in question.

THIS, should be the quote of the day. A lot of inner city neighbourhoods probably have a higher death rate, higher crime rate, etc than a war torn country like Iraq.

That's EXACTLY the problem here, the ghettos of America are some of the shittiest places to live in the world. We have gang-warfare in Vancouver that we read about on the news all the time but it's nothing even close to what happens out there. Lack of resources, racial tensions amongst the civilian population and the government/authority officials, all lead to quite the havoc of a scene.

[Ronin]

Have you seen Detroit?

[Harvey Specter]

I guess we know what side Don Lemon is on.

Are these Michael Brown's final moments? - YouTube

[capt_slo]

My point re: battlefield is more to do with the lack of a weapon or combatant position of Mike Brown. This wasn't a firefight. This wasn't a group fight or a group of people rushing the officer. I am well aware of the absolute shithole conditions present in urban USA. The cop was 1 on 1 since the other guy bailed upon first shot. Worst case has him 1 vs 2: gun against fists.

Accounts have the victim running away, shot in the back and then turning to surrender. Not taking up a weapon or a stance to retaliate physically. If those accounts are shown to be false I'll consider the cop's excuse of fear.

Crime rates in Ferguson have been declining steadily in recent years and are on par with average statistics in the country. 2 recorded murders in 2012 - so 9.4/100,000 people. It is not Detroit or Camden or even Chicago.

We're talking about an unarmed jaywalker who was shot in the back as he ran away after he punched a cop in a struggle. Not a group of hardened gangbangers with mac 10's.

Edit: stat source - http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Ferguson-Missouri.html

Ferguson is a shitty place from the stats, but not as bad as its neighbours. Property crime runs rampant, violent crime not so much.

[Manic!]

Not everything they do is in an urban environment, maybe you've never left downtown but in some areas there are trees and shit that are still within their jurisdiction where they could potentially have to be somewhat stealthy. Do you want them buying 18 different uniforms for every possible occasion?

I live on Vancouver Island I am surrounded by tree's. If they want to be stealthy why are they wearing Blue PB vests with the word Police written in big white letters? It just looks stupid and one scares and upsets the average person.

[parm104]

We're talking about an unarmed jaywalker who was shot in the back as he ran away after he punched a cop in a struggle. Not a group of hardened gangbangers with mac 10's.

I fully agree with your conclusion just not your examples and google'd statistics. The hood is a horrible place to be in for those living, working and commuting through it. St. Louis, MO is a shit hole no question about it is riddled with crime.

[sonick]

A witness may have live-tweeted Michael Brown's shooting | The Verge (http://www.theverge.com/2014/8/15/6007159/a-witness-may-have-live-tweeted-michael-browns-shooting)

Eerie

[SkinnyPupp]

OMG he stole a chocolate bar, better shoot him!

[Harvey Specter]

Cops are back out in force.

https://twitter.com/blackink12
https://twitter.com/AmyKNelson
https://twitter.com/AntonioFrench

[RRxtar]

Here's the thing with cops, it's not supposed to be "too late" to surrender. You've got one or two bullets in you, you realize you were an idiot and you yell "I surrender" and throw your hands up.

We're not talking about a battlefield in a war torn country, this is middle 'Murica in question. That cop has the responsibility to calm his ass down and not pump more rounds into a suspect who has allegedly moved from aggressive to submissive.
Lets build a hypothetical scenario based on the unconfirmed maybes of one side of the story:

1: A guy is beating the shit out of a cop and trying to take his gun.
2: Cop pulls his gun and shoots the guy in self defense.
3: Guy stops fighting and starts trying to run away.
4: Cop finishes his training and puts the guy down.

At step 1, the guy establishes himself as a serious and imminent threat to the life of the cop, and perhaps the lives of people around. Cop has to make a choice at that point and follow it.
Every time there is a police shooting we hear explicitly how they are trained that IF you pull your weapon to shoot, you shoot to kill, and make sure the guy you're shooting at is down and can't continue doing whatever it was to make you shoot. At step 3, obviously the guy getting shot is going to try to run away from getting shot. He has already established he is a significant risk, and there is no way to know without a doubt that he wont try to re-attack the cop.

I dont really understand how urban youths talk, or use twitter, but from what Ive seen posted from a few witnesses, most of them didnt see the first couple shots, and only saw the last 5 or so shots as the guy was running away.



Lets use our heads here for a minute. Does anyone REALLY think the cop cold heartedly blasted away the kid in the middle of the street in broad day light like some movie villain? Or is that more of a cool story talking in absolutes?

Everyone, especially black people, and young people, always look for a cause to get behind a hate on cops. And their witness accounts are often skewed by emotion and dramatization. Most of the witnesses to this shooting already hate cops.

Or is it perhaps more likely that something actually went down to result in the shooting?

This isnt as clear cut as the NYPD choking the fat guy to death. That one was some bullshit.

[Hurricane]

This guy puts it all quite well...

Black Man Goes on EPIC Rant Against Ferguson Rioters - YouTube

Anyone who thinks this single isolated incident is some kind of universal proof of white cops having a systemic disregard for black human life is as ridiculous as CiC.

If the cop broke the law, I hope he gets the punishment he deserves. Everyone else should just go home.

[4444]

This guy puts it all quite well...

Black Man Goes on EPIC Rant Against Ferguson Rioters - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f0mVn0HH6U)

Anyone who thinks this single isolated incident is some kind of universal proof of white cops having a systemic disregard for black human life is as ridiculous as CiC.

If the cop broke the law, I hope he gets the punishment he deserves. Everyone else should just go home.

I don't think anyone would disagree with you, but remember that cop in tsawwassen that off duty was drunk and killed a kid, he basically got a spank on the backside and nothing more. A mere mortal would have been done with manslaughter.

Cops don't face the same justice as the rest of us. They are just a "legal" gang. None of us agree with it, but that's life.

[multicartual]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvL80U-CAAIkdw0.jpg

[murd0c]

he's missing fried chicken

[Ronin]

Gross...I've heard of putting your money where your mouth is but not literally, kid. Old bills are nasty.

[iEatClams]

I don't think anyone would disagree with you, but remember that cop in tsawwassen that off duty was drunk and killed a kid, he basically got a spank on the backside and nothing more. A mere mortal would have been done with manslaughter.

Cops don't face the same justice as the rest of us. They are just a "legal" gang. None of us agree with it, but that's life.

soo true. although I respect the work that they do, I just hate how they are protected by their unions and are not held accountable.

it's the same old story, cop commits a crime where any other citizen would get fired and do jail time, but all they get is "suspended with pay".

[underscore]

Anyone who thinks this single isolated incident is some kind of universal proof of white cops having a systemic disregard for black human life is as ridiculous as CiC.

It's the same as anything else, anybody dealing with generalizations about a group because of a few members of that group is a fucking idiot. Bonus idiot points if they forget that the police are still humans capable of making mistakes.

[ancient_510]

Havn't we learned...do not resist.
You do not give officers one bit of an excuse to use lethal force. Put your head down and hands behind your back. You'll have your day in court.

Youtube linky 1:14

[vafanculo]

Youtube linky (http://youtu.be/wfx7TEuqHEA) 1:14

If you do that, you deserve to get beat. Cops are human too. Guy crossed the line (trying to kill the cop), and they crossed the line too.

Cops just had a press conference. Not sure if I believe the cop. There's media everywhere, I'm sure we'd hear of cop shootings, and Molotov's from them.

[Ronin]

Watching the Vice live feed. Did something happen today? I heard "subject down" and the chief is giving a statement right now about other events.

[vafanculo]

He basically said he's happy with how the cops handled the crowd, and gave examples of crimes happening elsewhere. Maybe he didn't sound too confident, but sounds like he's exaggerating at the least haha

[scottsman]

On the first page someone brought up the amount of black murders since Travyon or something. This is relevant even though many of you failed the post. A lot of the people killed in a city like Chicago are innocent bystanders but you don't see the local populations outraged because most of it is black on black. Quite a few young children are killed by bullets going through walls in their house, caught in cross fire, etc...

[4444]

On the first page someone brought up the amount of black murders since Travyon or something. This is relevant even though many of you failed the post. A lot of the people killed in a city like Chicago are innocent bystanders but you don't see the local populations outraged because most of it is black on black. Quite a few young children are killed by bullets going through walls in their house, caught in cross fire, etc...

exactly, i think those that failed it are just crowd followers. it is a valid point, the gang members of chicago care for no one but themselves, innocent kids of 10, 11 are killed too often (remember that girl that met obama and then a short time after died... hit the news, but no real outrage).

i have less and less sympathy for these ghetto dwellers. pull up your pants, do some hard work, leave that shit behind.

[adambomb]

The New York Times reported that the autopsy by Dr. Michael Baden, a former New York City chief medical examiner, found that one of the bullets entered the top of Michael Brown's skull, suggesting that his head was bent forward when he suffered a fatal injury.

Baden told the Times that Brown was also shot four times in the right arm and that all the bullets were fired into his front. The newspaper said the bullets did not appear to have come from very close range because there was no gunpowder on his body.

That determination could change if there were residue on Brown's clothing, which Baden did not examine, the newspaper said.

Some of the bullets entered and exited Brown several times, the newspaper said, including one that caused at least five wounds. It said one shattered his right eye, went through his face, left through his jaw and re-entered his collarbone. The last two shots in the head would have stopped him in his tracks and were likely the last fired, the Times said.

Baden told the newspaper Brown would not have survived even if he had been taken to a hospital immediately.

Autopsy results show he was not running away when shot.


http://static01.nyt.com/images/2014/08/18/us/SUB-JP-BROWN-2/SUB-JP-BROWN-2-master495.jpg

Michael Brown: Autopsy reveals unarmed teen shot 6 times by police - World - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/michael-brown-autopsy-reveals-unarmed-teen-shot-6-times-by-police-1.2739279)

[MG1]

That's not a black man..................:troll:

[evlee]

That's not a black man..................:troll:

toook me a while :lawl::derp:

[MG1]

yup, the cranial structure isn't quite right..........

[dangonay]

So the first autopsy says Brown shot 6 times. 4 in arms 2 in head. All 6 shots were from the front.

So what does that say about the witnesses who claim Briwn was running away when shot? Or the witness claiming Brown was shot in the back while running?

[multicartual]

Fuck there would be nation-wide CHAOS if the results came back to show conclusively that Brown charged the cop and got shot justifiably


Here's what will happen:


Eric Holder will order a federal investigation
White cop shooter will be found guilty of murder, given 20+ years
Shit cools off and the blacks will feel like they got justice
Obama pardons him at the end of his 2nd term
Guy comes out of jail, is given multi-million dollar book deal for conservative audience

[underscore]

So he definitely wasn't running away, range isn't determined yet though.

exactly, i think those that failed it are just crowd followers. it is a valid point, the gang members of chicago care for no one but themselves, innocent kids of 10, 11 are killed too often (remember that girl that met obama and then a short time after died... hit the news, but no real outrage).

i have less and less sympathy for these ghetto dwellers. pull up your pants, do some hard work, leave that shit behind.

Don't forget the kids that have been killed intentionally because of debts or disputes their parents had with gangbangers.

[BrRsn]

john oliver did a piece on this

Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Ferguson, MO and Police Militarization (HBO) - YouTube

[7seven]

Oliver makes some valid points, but he often conveniently ignores some issues and takes clips out of context to twist things to his view, there are certain budgetary issues as to why the county police force is wearing military surplus tactical uniforms, police had to respond in force with crowd control equipment as the protest where not peaceful with certain elements looking at this just to riot, loot and attack police with rocks and molotov cocktails. Even the peace protestors the last few days have voiced anger and frustration at the idiots who are just looking at this as an excuse to riot.

Much like John Stewart does as well, Oliver and Stewart aren't too different from the right nut bag Bill O'Reilly, except they the left version and do a better job putting a comedic spin on it.

[Noreason]

Autopsy results show he was not running away when shot.


http://static01.nyt.com/images/2014/08/18/us/SUB-JP-BROWN-2/SUB-JP-BROWN-2-master495.jpg

Michael Brown: Autopsy reveals unarmed teen shot 6 times by police - World - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/michael-brown-autopsy-reveals-unarmed-teen-shot-6-times-by-police-1.2739279)

Yep, the autopsy reports collaborate the officers story that they were chasing Michael Brown when he suddenly turned around and charged and them.

Warning live leak video of the crime scene: NSFW.
http://http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e94_1408294281

@6:29 of the video it picks up a conversation of a witness who says Brown turned around at ran at the police.

He thought the police kept missing because Brown kept charging until probably that shot to the head.

Interesting different side of the story.

[Happy]

I don't think anyone would disagree with you, but remember that cop in tsawwassen that off duty was drunk and killed a kid, he basically got a spank on the backside and nothing more. A mere mortal would have been done with manslaughter.

Cops don't face the same justice as the rest of us. They are just a "legal" gang. None of us agree with it, but that's life.

That case was bullshit. Apparently cops are trained to do exactly what he did. If you hit someone while drinking and driving -> leave your license at the scene -> go home and down a couple of shots -> come back and say you only drank after the accident happened. I don't understand how he still got his pension + he got to retire early

It was the same cop that tased the guy to death in YVR

[mr_chin]

Yep, the autopsy reports collaborate the officers story that they were chasing Michael Brown when he suddenly turned around and charged and them.

Warning live leak video of the crime scene: NSFW.
http://http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e94_1408294281 (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e94_1408294281)

@6:29 of the video it picks up a conversation of a witness who says Brown turned around at ran at the police.

He thought the police kept missing because Brown kept charging until probably that shot to the head.

Interesting different side of the story.

link fixed

[68style]

That case was bullshit. Apparently cops are trained to do exactly what he did. If you hit someone while drinking and driving -> leave your license at the scene -> go home and down a couple of shots -> come back and say you only drank after the accident happened. I don't understand how he still got his pension + he got to retire early

It was the same cop that tased the guy to death in YVR

That's a pretty stupid claim to make, why would a police force train its members how to get out of illegal situations they become involved in.

You might know ways to get around loopholes from administering those laws as part of the job... but they definitely don't train you how to fuck around when you fuck up. Nobody likes a fuckup and there are fuckups in every single profession in the world -- policing included. Probably a lot less % wise than most professions though, but it doesn't make newspaper headlines when an office worker orders the wrong grade of paper for the photocopier does it? You try doing your job every day full of random incidents constantly under scrutiny of a million bosses (supervisors, public, media) and see how you like it when every single thing you do is questioned from every possible angle.

[parm104]

That case was bullshit. Apparently cops are trained to do exactly what he did. If you hit someone while drinking and driving -> leave your license at the scene -> go home and down a couple of shots -> come back and say you only drank after the accident happened.

Yup, you're right. It's on page 14 of the RCMP Training Manual. WoW, good catch man! Those lil buggers were trying to hide this sly training procedure from us but thanks to you, we're all privy to their sneaky ways now!

[4444]

Yup, you're right. It's on page 14 of the RCMP Training Manual. WoW, good catch man! Those lil buggers were trying to hide this sly training procedure from us but thanks to you, we're all privy to their sneaky ways now!

you know sarcasm on the internet doesn't work, right?

[Bouncing Bettys]

So he definitely wasn't running away, range isn't determined yet though. Didn't the police initially say Brown was shot from around 35ft away from the police car which was in close proximity to the officer as he fired? Seems odd he felt he had no other options than a kill shot to the head if Brown wasn't within a few feet of him.

[4444]

Didn't the police initially say Brown was shot from around 35ft away from the police car which was in close proximity to the officer as he fired? Seems odd he felt he had no other options than a kill shot to the head if Brown wasn't within a few feet of him.

information will come out in due course, i hope.

note i used the term 'information' not 'the truth' as i don't think the truth will ever be fully transparent in this one

[quasi]

Didn't the police initially say Brown was shot from around 35ft away from the police car which was in close proximity to the officer as he fired? Seems odd he felt he had no other options than a kill shot to the head if Brown wasn't within a few feet of him.

They aim center mass, it;s not like every cop is a perfect marksman and shoots his gun on a daily basis. I wasn't there but if I had to guess the head shots would have been the last shots because the target would have dropped.

[underscore]

Didn't the police initially say Brown was shot from around 35ft away from the police car which was in close proximity to the officer as he fired? Seems odd he felt he had no other options than a kill shot to the head if Brown wasn't within a few feet of him.

That's assuming that the shot to the head was intended to hit him there, obviously they're going to aim center of mass for accuracy but after a struggle, wearing gear and with a moving target I'd say hitting someones head could be as much of a fluke as anything. Either way, if he's shooting he's most likely shooting to kill (ie stop completely), in which case does it matter much where he was hit?

[underscore]

That's a pretty stupid claim to make, why would a police force train its members how to get out of illegal situations they become involved in.

You might know ways to get around loopholes from administering those laws as part of the job... but they definitely don't train you how to fuck around when you fuck up. Nobody likes a fuckup and there are fuckups in every single profession in the world -- policing included. Probably a lot less % wise than most professions though, but it doesn't make newspaper headlines when an office worker orders the wrong grade of paper for the photocopier does it? You try doing your job every day full of random incidents constantly under scrutiny of a million bosses (supervisors, public, media) and see how you like it when every single thing you do is questioned from every possible angle.

They released the stats for Canadian police a while back and the % of "fuckups" by the Canadian police was extremely low. Assuming most people do 90-95% of their job correctly (and a lot of people do much less), they'd still be in the bottom percentile of Canadian police officers if they were cops instead.

[Manic!]

Another shooting in Ferguson/St Louis. Guy was shoplifting and had a knife. Cops shot and killed him. On CNN right now.

[Vale46Rossi]

Another shooting in Ferguson/St Louis. Guy was shoplifting and had a knife. Cops shot and killed him. On CNN right now.

more and more of these stories are coming out.

[7seven]

ST. LOUIS - A man has been shot and killed by police Tuesday afternoon in north St. Louis, reports CBS affiliate KMOV.

Authorities confirmed that police were involved in a shooting that left one man dead around 12:30 p.m., according to the station. Police said the man was a 23-year-old accused of stealing muffins and energy drinks from a local store.

St. Louis Police Chief Sam Dotson said in a tweet that the suspect was brandishing a knife at the time of the shooting, according to KMOV. Witnesses said he was acting erratically.

Two officers at the scene reportedly asked the suspect to put down the weapon. Police said he yelled, "Shoot me now, shoot me now" before charging the officers with the knife, and was then fatally shot by two police officers.

A local alderman previously told CBS News that police said the victim was black.

An employee at a nearby market told the station that the incident took place outside the Six Stars Market along Riverview Blvd.

KMOV reports that no officers were injured in the shooting.

The fatal shooting occurred approximately four miles from the deadly officer-involved shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown ten days ago in Ferguson, Mo.

© 2014 CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved.



Cops: Man brandishing knife shot dead by St. Louis police - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cops-man-brandishing-knife-shot-dead-by-st-louis-police/)

[RRxtar]

Apparently he was approaching the officer aggressively with the knife overhead in a position with intent to stab and was shot 4 feet from the officer.

Surely he was an upstanding kid who had his hands up to surrender also.



Want to not get shot by a cop? Don't be a fucking idiot

[4444]

Cops: Man brandishing knife shot dead by St. Louis police - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cops-man-brandishing-knife-shot-dead-by-st-louis-police/)

If the local ppl make this a white vs black thing, I'm certain they'd have done the same thing if it were a white cracker with a knife charging them.

I know there are racial problems, but this is not an example of that

[Happy]

That's a pretty stupid claim to make, why would a police force train its members how to get out of illegal situations they become involved in.



"Judge Janice Dillon of the B.C. Supreme Court ruled that drinking the vodka was a deliberate act to mislead the crash investigation, noting the veteran's RCMP training taught him that drinking booze afterwards could potentially mask the alcohol he drank earlier in the night."

No jail time for former RCMP officer Monty Robinson, convicted of obstruction (http://www.vancouversun.com/news/jail+time+former+RCMP+officer+Monty+Robinson+convi cted+obstruction/6999826/story.html#ixzz3At9bfNPL)

I don't care that he's a cop. All I'm saying is that after he hit the person, he should have stayed at the scene and called an ambulance..

You know what the family of the deceased person got out of all of this, is a letter of apology from Robinson, do you think that's justice?

[RRxtar]

I might be reading that differently than you...

But to me that reads like "Thru his RCMP training, he learned that suspects might drink booze after a drunk driving accident to cover up being drunk during the accident"

not

"RCMP officers are trained to get drunk after they are involved in drunk driving accidents so they can hide the fact they were drunk when the accident occurred"

[hchang]

"Judge Janice Dillon of the B.C. Supreme Court ruled that drinking the vodka was a deliberate act to mislead the crash investigation, noting the veteran's RCMP training taught him that drinking booze afterwards could potentially mask the alcohol he drank earlier in the night."

No jail time for former RCMP officer Monty Robinson, convicted of obstruction (http://www.vancouversun.com/news/jail+time+former+RCMP+officer+Monty+Robinson+convi cted+obstruction/6999826/story.html#ixzz3At9bfNPL)

I don't care that he's a cop. All I'm saying is that after he hit the person, he should have stayed at the scene and called an ambulance..

You know what the family of the deceased person got out of all of this, is a letter of apology from Robinson, do you think that's justice?

Sure the actions of the officer may not have been morally correct, but when shit goes down isn't your primal instinct damage control and how to cover your own ass?

It's easy sitting behind a keyboard and making that decision sober but when shit goes down you only have so long to make up your mind and live by it.

[BrRsn]

Anyone know the backstory to this?

Powell Shooting Cell Phone Camera - YouTube

fastforward to about 1:30

guy is wielding a gun, starts walking towards cops, gets laid out ... then near the end of the vid the guy filming remarks: "Why wouldn't you use a taser .. damn". As if a cop is going to use a taser on a guy with a gun, to give him enough time to line up the shot and kill the cop.

My guess is that people are starting to think they can test/provoke the police without repercussions after the recent ferguson incidents, or the guy just wanted to die

[Ronin]

Yeah, I'm okay with the video above. I don't see a gun but the video isn't great (vertical video...) so I'll take your word for it that he had one. If he had a gun out, he's a threat so the cops should have their guns out and pointed at him. He keeps moving towards the police despite repeated warnings so they did what they had to do.

That's just stupidity that got that guy killed. Steal a couple sodas? You'll get a slap on the wrist. Have a gun on you? Probably not a lot of time unless you've already got a couple strikes. He decided to test the cops instead and got his ass killed.

[Ronin]

Ugh, I cannot handle these YouTube comments. "Why didn't they shoot him in the foot?" "Why didn't they shoot the knife out of his hand?"

If something is a threat, keep shooting center mass until it stops moving. If the options are killing a man that's threatening to kill you or possibly just wounding a man coming at you with a knife drawn, then you kill the guy.

[parm104]

Anyone know the backstory to this?

Powell Shooting Cell Phone Camera - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTBPtWUJqPM)

guy is wielding a gun, starts walking towards cops, gets laid out ... then near the end of the vid the guy filming remarks: "Why wouldn't you use a taser .. damn". As if a cop is going to use a taser on a guy with a gun, to give him enough time

Yeah, I'm okay with the video above. I don't see a gun but the video isn't great (vertical video...) so I'll take your word for it that he had one. If he had a gun out, he's a threat so the cops should have their guns out and pointed at him. He keeps moving towards the police despite repeated warnings so they did what they had to do.


Not that it really makes a difference but he's not "wielding a gun," but he is apparently holding a knife. They fought a deadly weapon with a deadly weapon...In the civilian world, the law would see this as a just fight, I'm sure.

[stewie]

Ugh, I cannot handle these YouTube comments. "Why didn't they shoot him in the foot?" "Why didn't they shoot the knife out of his hand?"

If something is a threat, keep shooting center mass until it stops moving. If the options are killing a man that's threatening to kill you or possibly just wounding a man coming at you with a knife drawn, then you kill the guy.

Kid was a beast.


It's like trying to take down a charging rhino with a 9mm pistol and expecting it to drop on the first shot...

[classified]

lol iunno if u guys listened with headphones or not but u hear the guy who got shot yelling shoot me, shoot me shoot me mafka and then starts walking closer to the cops...

[StylinRed]

a video was shown this morning of an officer trying to disperse a crowd of protesters..he did so by pointing his rifle at the crowd and threatening that he could kill them :crazy2: a senior officer came and told him to lower his weapon

apparently the gun pointing officer has been suspended indefinitely

[underscore]

Ugh, I cannot handle these YouTube comments. "Why didn't they shoot him in the foot?" "Why didn't they shoot the knife out of his hand?"

If something is a threat, keep shooting center mass until it stops moving. If the options are killing a man that's threatening to kill you or possibly just wounding a man coming at you with a knife drawn, then you kill the guy.

Good luck hitting a moving targets hand on the first try while simultaneously checking behind him to ensure there's no collateral damage.

[CorneringArtist]

Ugh, I cannot handle these YouTube comments. "Why didn't they shoot him in the foot?" "Why didn't they shoot the knife out of his hand?"

If something is a threat, keep shooting center mass until it stops moving. If the options are killing a man that's threatening to kill you or possibly just wounding a man coming at you with a knife drawn, then you kill the guy.

Wasn't there a (one-sided) argument started by a certain someone regarding this exact subject before :troll:?

[ScizzMoney]

Good luck hitting a moving targets hand on the first try while simultaneously checking behind him to ensure there's no collateral damage.

But I do it in Call of Duty easy
:drunk:

[MaaaadMan]

Apparently they didn't watch this video

Chris Rock - How not to get your ass kicked by the police! - YouTube

[Happy]

Sure the actions of the officer may not have been morally correct, but when shit goes down isn't your primal instinct damage control and how to cover your own ass?

It's easy sitting behind a keyboard and making that decision sober but when shit goes down you only have so long to make up your mind and live by it.

well we should agree to disagree. If I hit someone and kill them, my primal instinct isn't to run away. It's gonna be to stay at the scene and help the poor guy that's dying.

That mentality is so fucked up. He shouldn't have even been driving in the first place

[hchang]

well we should agree to disagree. If I hit someone and kill them, my primal instinct isn't to run away. It's gonna be to stay at the scene and help the poor guy that's dying.

That mentality is so fucked up. He shouldn't have even been driving in the first place

You never know what you'll do until you're put in that situation.

[Happy]

You never know what you'll do until you're put in that situation.

Well I'll never be in that situation because I'm not stupid enough to drink and drive like Robinson.

He really did cover his ass nicely.

Too bad he killed someone in the process - who knows what would have happened if he stayed and called an ambulance.

I'm pretty sure your view on "cover your own ass" would be different if he struck and killed your parents or a loved one.

[The7even]

Oliver makes some valid points, but he often conveniently ignores some issues and takes clips out of context to twist things to his view, there are certain budgetary issues as to why the county police force is wearing military surplus tactical uniforms, police had to respond in force with crowd control equipment as the protest where not peaceful with certain elements looking at this just to riot, loot and attack police with rocks and molotov cocktails. Even the peace protestors the last few days have voiced anger and frustration at the idiots who are just looking at this as an excuse to riot.

Much like John Stewart does as well, Oliver and Stewart aren't too different from the right nut bag Bill O'Reilly, except they the left version and do a better job putting a comedic spin on it.



Thank you. Well said.

I'm also going to add that I donated $5.00 to the police officer's fund.
People saying that him robbing the store had "nothing to do with it" is delusional at best.
If I go around doing stupid shit, robbing places and get shot the next day for something non related to my previous activities, who I was as a person before the shooting DOES fucking matter.
It shows and highlights my character as a man and a human being.. I was a piece of shit who asked for trouble and did dumb shit.

The problem we face today in the US is a double edged sword. On one side you have an out of control police state that's on the rise and on the other is a dangerous and ignorant populace hijacking the ideals of a free society and system to benefit their own agenda.. and agenda that supports lawlessness, irresponsibility, criminality and "it wasn't me, I didn't do nuffin!" attitude.
Fuck both, but I'd honestly rather live in the former than the latter.

Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson only come out when an "innocent and cuddly 21 year old CHILD or TEENAGER" get's gunned down by a white cop. Never mind that this "teenager" who was 21 year old, with his kinder garden pictures plastered all over CNN was a gang banger, did stupid shit and was violent..

Common sense isn't racist. If it wears baggy jeans, throws gang signs and constantly gets in fucking trouble, IT'S A PERSON YOU SHOULD AVOID FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY. Of course you could always play along with the liberal narative and ignore your safety for the sake of being politically correct and get killed. Not like death is eternal or anything.

[parm104]

Thank you. Well said.

I'm also going to add that I donated $5.00 to the police officer's fund.
People saying that him robbing the store had "nothing to do with it" is delusional at best.
If I go around doing stupid shit, robbing places and get shot the next day for something non related to my previous activities, who I was as a person before the shooting DOES fucking matter.
It shows and highlights my character as a man and a human being.. I was a piece of shit who asked for trouble and did dumb shit.


It is a judge and jury that decides whether someone is guilty of murder or not and whether the victim was deserving or not deserving of being shot. In a court of law, what you did the night before or 1/2 an hour before being shot or murdered is NOT admissible. It cannot be used as character evidence and it cannot be used to show propensity (with a limited number of exceptions, of course.)

[mikemhg]

I really wanted to jump into this thread, especially after the RS resident biggot The7even decided to jump it. You donated to an officer that shot a young man about to enter college? You're a sick fuck, whether or not you want to character assassinate Michael Brown, a family is grieving over their lost son, and you think that's something worth donating against? Mind boggling.

I always find it facinating when someone who isn't black, nor lived a day as a black man in a city like St. Louis, would post as if they had any idea of the situation down there.

To deny that there is a distinct problem between the Black community and these Police Departments who are hiring ex-military from locations completely disconnected from the community they are assigned to police is shocking to me.

How can some people try to pretend that racism hasn't been institutionalized in many of these Police Departments in America for a VERY long time? You think that has changed simply because it's 2014?

This issue is a complicated one, and surely isn't one sided. I don't lay full blame on the Police Department, the black community also requires change, and it's time to address these problems. The war on drugs HAS to end, it has ruined a race of people, and destroyed a generation of young black men. Until this changes, we will not see any improvement in the black community. It really disapoints me that we are debating an issue like this in 2014, we have come a long way since the 60's, but boy do we have a long way still to go.

[Ronin]

If I remember correctly, he also sided with Zimmerman.

I don't think it really matters what he did. He was unarmed, not a threat...yes, he may have robbed a corner store but doesn't that mean he should be arrested rather than shot in the face?

That other guy probably deserved it for having a knife and yelling at cops to shoot him but Michael Brown, by most accounts, was trying to surrender.

[The7even]

If I remember correctly, he also sided with Zimmerman.

Yeah, I did.



I don't think it really matters what he did.


But it does. You have to judge people based on who they are as a person and who they are in their day to day life.


He was unarmed
Yes.


not a threat...


You have no idea. No idea. That is a total guess on your part.


yes, he may have robbed a corner store but doesn't that mean he should be arrested rather than shot in the face?


You're right. I'm not for shooting a person just for shop lifting.


That other guy probably deserved it for having a knife and yelling at cops to shoot him

Not just "probably", he definitely deserved it.




but Michael Brown, by most accounts, was trying to surrender.

And what accounts are those? Of other by standers who are taking his side because he was black and they love attention and love to blame whites for all their problems?

Eye witness accounts are the least reliable..



The truth is, we don't know 100% what happened so saying he was trying to surrender is just guesswork at this point - you have nothing to prove that he was.

Based on how he lived his life though.. I wouldn't be surprised if he attempted to charge the officer.

I'll say it again.. I'm not for a police state that the US is becoming.. but I'm not for this shit either.
I'm sure this poor man was a beloved member of his community and was anti-gun just as much as some of the posters in this thread.

[Manic!]

Based on how he lived his life though.. I wouldn't be surprised if he attempted to charge the officer.



Based on how the police officer lived his life I wouldn't be surprised if he was a raciest and shot him because he was black.

Darren Wilson’s first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities

FERGUSON, Mo. — The small city of Jennings, Mo., had a police department so troubled, and with so much tension between white officers and black residents, that the city council finally decided to disband it. Everyone in the Jennings police department was fired. New officers were brought in to create a credible department from scratch.

That was three years ago. One of the officers who worked in that department, and lost his job along with everyone else, was a young man named Darren Wilson.

Darren Wilson?s first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/darren-wilsons-first-job-was-on-a-troubled-police-force-disbanded-by-authorities/2014/08/23/1ac796f0-2a45-11e4-8593-da634b334390_story.html)

[Ronin]

I was about to say...doesn't that go both ways? It seems like the police in Ferguson are pretty trigger happy, pointing guns at unarmed civilians and accusations of racism all over.

If blacks love to blame whites for all their problems, isn't it also conceivable that...whites are the cause of at least some of their problems? Like shooting them in the face? There's definitely a problem with racism when it comes to the police. I saw a video the other day where security was called to deal with a white guy causing a disturbance and instead, they pepper sprayed a black bystander and hauled him away.

And another problem is the huge lack of transparency when it comes to the police. They all look out for each other and even when there is a fuck up, they don't deal with it in the same way as any other person. The police should be held accountable but instead, they spin their bullshit. Look at the shit that happens in Vancouver? Guy dies from tasering...well, we'll just pay those guys to sit at desks now. The police need to be held to the same standards...not "oh, you risk your life so you get a free pass." and we'll sweep it under the rug.

Cops wear cameras. Done deal. Because there's absolutely nothing to stop a white cop from shooting a black man for no reason right now.

[The7even]

I really wanted to jump into this thread, especially after the RS resident biggot The7even decided to jump it.
Pleasure meeting you. I'm very happy that you've declared me a fool based solely on the fact that I disagree with you.. a sure sign of higher intelligence I'm sure.

You donated to an officer that shot a young man about to enter college?

:lol That guy... college?
:lol

You really do live in a fantasy world where everything is good, no one cries and there's only butterflies..
I bet the only pictures you saw of him are when he was 12 years old right? Or the high school graduation picture?

You're a sick fuck
I'm not. I'm a realist.

a family is grieving over their lost son, and you think that's something worth donating against? Mind boggling.
Since you are the champion of equal rights and an ardent defender of the less powerful, why don't you donate to the Michael Brown fund?
I'll wait.

I always find it facinating when someone who isn't black, nor lived a day as a black man in a city like St. Louis, would post as if they had any idea of the situation down there.

I find it fascinating that you don't see that I live in Chicago, where I see reality and know how to distinguish between a normal black man and a thug.
Your inability to comprehend that there is a difference between the two would get you killed here. But of course, as usual, I'm sure you're in a nice community where you don't have to deal with ghetto trash and you get all your information from The Daily Show.

To deny that there is a distinct problem between the Black community and these Police Departments who are hiring ex-military from locations completely disconnected from the community they are assigned to police is shocking to me.
Yet, I didn't deny that, did I?

I said I'm against a police state as well.

Did you read what I said or did you just skim through the parts you wanted to nit pick?

How can some people try to pretend that racism hasn't been institutionalized in many of these Police Departments in America for a VERY long time? You think that has changed simply because it's 2014?

I'm not the moron you're trying to paint me as.
I'm well aware of everything that goes on. I don't pretend that racism doesn't exist. In fact, I don't pretend to be some politically correct champion who ignores the fact that Michael Brown would have wiped the floor with your face were you to look at him wrong. He wasn't afraid to steal. Let that sink in.

The next time you go to a store, steal something.. I want you to actually steal something.

Just before you do..you will actually go over the consequences and you'll decide against it. The 8 year old innocent teenagers genius about to be college student never even considered that, never even gave a shit about that... he thought "this is a good idea".


I don't lay full blame on the Police Department, the black community also requires change

YOU ARE A RACIST. APOLOGIZE NOW. NO APOLOGY NO PEACE. YOU'RE A RACIST BIGGOT. HATER. SCUM. NAZI.


and it's time to address these problems

Yes, it is fucking time. But we cant address these problems because every time someone tries and points out the facts, the facts and the person pointing them out is a racist according to the media, you and others.

[The7even]

If blacks love to blame whites for all their problems, isn't it also conceivable that...whites are the cause of at least some of their problems?

Of course it's conceivable. Whites are the cause of most of their problems.
Slavery was no joke, nor was the shit that followed slavery much better. It's why they hate the white man so much.

But there is a line. They can get together and they can fix their problems.. but people won't let them. The democrats in this country love keeping them on the leash(welfare) and keeping them stupid benefits them because they get the votes.

If you try or say anything that goes against the narrative, you're labeled racist. So everything remains the same.

[Manic!]

why don't you donate to the Michael Brown fund?
I'll wait.





Fund for what? The kids dead, the funeral is done, and they have a team of lawyers.





Darren Wilson Supporter Gets Scolded - Stupid jack after telling man “Learn to Speak English' - YouTube

[The7even]

Fund for what? The kids dead, the funeral is done, and they have a team of lawyers.





Darren Wilson Supporter Gets Scolded - Stupid jack after telling man “Learn to Speak English' - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoDNjDtTcTs)

What is the point of your video?

Also, you can fund the legal team that's going to bring the evil racist officer to justice.

[Manic!]

What is the point of your video?

Also, you can fund the legal team that's going to bring the evil racist officer to justice.



You mean fund the federal prosecutor? How would you do that? he works for and gets paid by the government. That would be like paying a cop to find your stolen car.

I don't think you know how the legal system works.

[The7even]

You mean fund the federal prosecutor? How would you do that? he works for and gets paid by the government. That would be like paying a cop to find your stolen car.

I don't think you know how the legal system works.

I was serious about asking him to donate before you pointed out that it was closed and the funeral happened, I didn't know it did.

The last one was me sarcastically asking you to donate to race baiter Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.

Even if I know nothing about the legal system, it changes nothing about what I've said.

[parm104]

Even if I know nothing about the legal system, it changes nothing about what I've said.

Well it should...the moral grounds here will vary between person to person and opinion of the outcome of Brown shooting will too. However, the law is the only thing that is absolute and the law is the only thing we can hold true without involving our personal opinion.

That being said, I repeat, Brown's past and his cigar heist cannot be brought up in a court of law to show his character or propensity to commit crimes. This is important because it's what you are using to characterize this young man.

I'm not characterizing him as a good kid or a bad kid. I am too remote and distant from the situation to be able to accurately do that. But you have and you feel the officer in question is not guilty of murder because Brown had it coming to him because of his delinquent conduct. Well, like I said...a court of law handles past crimes, wrong acts and delinquency differently and generally, does not allow remote incidents to be used to show that a person acted accordingly on a particular occasion.

You were sarcastically suggesting to donate money to two reverends? I don't get it...

[Manic!]

I was serious about asking him to donate before you pointed out that it was closed and the funeral happened, I didn't know it did.

Even if I know nothing about the legal system, it changes nothing about what I've said.

If you don't know the legal system how can you say someone is innocent or guilty?

Seems like there are a lot of things you don't know.

[capt_slo]

Yeah, I did.

I'll say it again.. I'm not for a police state that the US is becoming.. but I'm not for this shit either.
I'm sure this poor man was a beloved member of his community and was anti-gun just as much as some of the posters in this thread.

Holy fuck.

Do people still think that pistol-holding cash-in-mouth photo is Mike Brown? :failed:

Read a god damn news story one time.

One problem is that Brown wasn't in the photo. The picture actually shows murder suspect Joda Cain, who was accused of killing his great-grandmother in Oregon last year.
Kansas City, Mo., cop under review after posting fake 'Michael Brown' picture to Facebook: report - NY Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/kansas-city-review-posting-fake-michael-brown-pic-facebook-report-article-1.1909021)
Racist Idiot Cop Investigated for Michael Brown Facebook Posts (http://gawker.com/racist-idiot-cop-investigated-for-michael-brown-faceboo-1623800160)
KC officer faces review for Michael Brown Facebook posts (http://www.ksat.com/content/pns/ksat/news/2014/08/19/mo-officer-faces-review-for-michael-brown-facebook-posts.html)

Photo was debunked Aug. 19.

[mikemhg]

^Hehe, I love it. To be honest you guys have already posted some good responses to The7even, I'm not even going to bother.

Donate to Sharpton? The hell does that even mean? I can't stand that sleazy snake bastard, does this guy even know that most black people don't even support Sharpton. That asshole lost 2/3 of the black vote IN HIS OWN DISTRICT when he ran for the Democrat candidate nomination over a decade ago.

Arguing with a racist over the Internet is stupid, we could go at this for days, and I don't know if you are trolling or being legitimate. I always find that the people who spew racist vitriol as you do over the Internet, would never have this type of conversation with me face to face, and I mean no threat whatsoever by that statement.

I hope that officer spending your donation well, for that $5 he can purchase a nice white pillow case :)

[The7even]

^Hehe, I love it. To be honest you guys have already posted some good responses to The7even, I'm not even going to bother.

Donate to Sharpton? The hell does that even mean? I can't stand that sleazy snake bastard, does this guy even know that most black people don't even support Sharpton. That asshole lost 2/3 of the black vote IN HIS OWN DISTRICT when he ran for the Democrat candidate nomination over a decade ago.

Arguing with a racist over the Internet is stupid, we could go at this for days, and I don't know if you are trolling or being legitimate. I always find that the people who spew racist vitriol as you do over the Internet, would never have this type of conversation with me face to face, and I mean no threat whatsoever by that statement.

I hope that officer spending your donation well, for that $5 he can purchase a nice white pillow case :)

So because I take the side of an officer I'm a racist.

Do you even know what a racist is?

Just because I don't agree with your side of the story doesn't make me racist.
I'm just observing and forming an opinion based on what I know and see.

What I don't see is anyone mentioning this

http://www.wnd.com/2014/08/black-on-white-beating-revenge-for-michael-brown/

Man warns two white guys to not go into restaurant.
They go into restaurant.
7 Black guys confront them because they're white and guilty of slavery and the death of unarmed teenager, 5 year old Michael Brown who was trying to just be a productive member of society and a big asset to his community.
The white men exit the restaurant.
Black men follow them.
Attack them both savagely.
One survives, tells the story, mentions racist slurs being thrown at them while they were being beaten.
"Not a hate crime".

No mention anywhere in media.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/08/27/stepdad-of-marine-brutally-beaten-in-parking-lot-painful-truth-is-media-would-care-more-if-races-were-switched/

Read that one maybe..

[Manic!]

So because I take the side of an officer I'm a racist.

Do you even know what a racist is?

Just because I don't agree with your side of the story doesn't make me racist.
I'm just observing and forming an opinion based on what I know and see.

What I don't see is anyone mentioning this

Black-on-white beating revenge for Michael Brown? (http://www.wnd.com/2014/08/black-on-white-beating-revenge-for-michael-brown/)

Man warns two white guys to not go into restaurant.
They go into restaurant.
7 Black guys confront them because they're white and guilty of slavery and the death of unarmed teenager, 5 year old Michael Brown who was trying to just be a productive member of society and a big asset to his community.
The white men exit the restaurant.
Black men follow them.
Attack them both savagely.
One survives, tells the story, mentions racist slurs being thrown at them while they were being beaten.
"Not a hate crime".

No mention anywhere in media.

Stepdad of Marine Brutally Beaten in Parking Lot: ?Painful Truth? Is Media Would Care More If Races Were Switched | TheBlaze.com (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/08/27/stepdad-of-marine-brutally-beaten-in-parking-lot-painful-truth-is-media-would-care-more-if-races-were-switched/)

Read that one maybe..

So the Blaze is not media? What is is it then?


Also lots of people get beat up every day. You want the media to report on every fight?

[Ronin]

Okay so let me see if I'm getting this straight.

Two white guys go into a restaurant after being straight up warned that it might start a confrontation but do so anyways and do so carrying concealed guns. Then they get beat up...one guy is in fair condition and one guy is pretty much just fine.

Black guy who probably stole some cigarettes gets randomly stopped by a police officer who didn't know he was a robbery suspect and the policeman, a person sworn to protect the public, guns him down despite not being armed.

Yes, totally the same thing.

And pretty much everyone that has a concealed weapon permit when it isn't part of their job is a fucking idiot. 100% of people that carry guns around for no particular reason are morons. These guys were just asking for it if they went into a hostile environment voluntarily and decided that arguing rather than leaving was a good idea.

If somehow I got into a heated argument with someone that showed me a gun, if I can't run, the first thing I'd do is try to knock him the fuck out too. If 7 of my unarmed friends were around, you can be damn sure we're kicking that guy's ass until he isn't a threat.

Is this your idea of black racism? Did these white people think they're Rosa Parks here? "No, I have a right to get my fucking waffles here!"

[The7even]

You want the media to report on every fight?

:lol


They targeted them SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE THEY WERE WHITE - TO GET REVENGE FOR MICHAEL BROWN.

How is that NOT RELEVANT?

Your hypocrisy is showing.

[The7even]

Okay so let me see if I'm getting this straight.

Two white guys go into a restaurant after being straight up warned that it might start a confrontation but do so anyways and do so carrying concealed guns. Then they get beat up...one guy is in fair condition and one guy is pretty much just fine.

Black guy who probably stole some cigarettes gets randomly stopped by a police officer who didn't know he was a robbery suspect and the policeman, a person sworn to protect the public, guns him down despite not being armed.

Yes, totally the same thing.

And pretty much everyone that has a concealed weapon permit when it isn't part of their job is a fucking idiot. 100% of people that carry guns around for no particular reason are morons. These guys were just asking for it if they went into a hostile environment voluntarily and decided that arguing rather than leaving was a good idea.

If somehow I got into a heated argument with someone that showed me a gun, if I can't run, the first thing I'd do is try to knock him the fuck out too. If 7 of my unarmed friends were around, you can be damn sure we're kicking that guy's ass until he isn't a threat.

Is this your idea of black racism? Did these white people think they're Rosa Parks here? "No, I have a right to get my fucking waffles here!"

Did you read the article?

The guy was a war veteran.
They have the right to go into any waffle house they like.

They ignored the warning because they didn't think they'd be targeted for something they didn't do.

They then left the restaurant and were followed... and it's still their fault.
:lol

This was a beating of TWO men by AT LEAST 7 others.

Be honest, you didn't read, did you?
Also, if I were to say "black guy shouldn't have gone there, should have known it was a white only area" you'd be saying "omg, they have the right to go where ever they want to, crush raycism!".

But I know, I'm sorry, the guys probably deserved to get beat up. Reparations for that slavery and payback for Michael Brown.
So sorry. Justice has been served.

[van_city23]

^ seems like you're trying to use that story to justify that it's alright for what happened to Brown but I'm probably wrong about that. Anyways, this Jon Stewart kind of hits it right on the head i think..

The Daily Show’s Jon Stewart Drags Fox News For Their Ferguson Reporting [VIDEO] - YouTube

[Ronin]

Yes, I read the article. How would I know they had a concealed weapon if I didn't? You didn't mention that in your post.

So war veterans have a good reason to carry a concealed weapon? Where's the war? Oh right, on another continent. Anyone that carries a concealed weapon is an idiot.

It says that tensions were high and they were warned not to go in and did so anyways. Yes, they have the right to be there. There's no reason for them not to be allowed in the waffle house but was it a good idea? Did they HAVE to get waffles there? This entire confrontation could've been avoided if they didn't go looking for trouble. And even after they went in, they could've avoided an argument by leaving once they realized the other patrons were hostile.

They had choices and they made the wrong ones. Plus, doesn't this go both ways? We don't know any of the details. We don't know if those guys went in and started the argument or flashed the guns. Like you said with the Michael Brown incident, you don't know the details. For all we know, they might've yelled "NIGGERS!" and got beat up for good reason.

A man with a gun when I don't have one is a threat. A man without a gun when I have one is not.

If you told me the same thing happened to two black guys, I would've said they brought it on themselves. Why put yourself in situations where you know something bad is going to happen? You don't see me walking around the DTES yelling "I'M RICH, BEEYAAATCH!"

[MarkyMark]

It's my right to walk down the sidewalk in Compton at night wearing a ten thousand dollar chain around my neck, that doesn't make it a good idea.

I'm sure there's a Waffle House where you won't get your ass kicked at, why go to the one where you will? Because they have the right to? Great, look how that turned out.

[The7even]

Yes, I read the article. How would I know they had a concealed weapon if I didn't? You didn't mention that in your post.

So war veterans have a good reason to carry a concealed weapon? Where's the war? Oh right, on another continent. Anyone that carries a concealed weapon is an idiot.

It says that tensions were high and they were warned not to go in and did so anyways. Yes, they have the right to be there. There's no reason for them not to be allowed in the waffle house but was it a good idea? Did they HAVE to get waffles there? This entire confrontation could've been avoided if they didn't go looking for trouble. And even after they went in, they could've avoided an argument by leaving once they realized the other patrons were hostile.

They had choices and they made the wrong ones. Plus, doesn't this go both ways? We don't know any of the details. We don't know if those guys went in and started the argument or flashed the guns. Like you said with the Michael Brown incident, you don't know the details. For all we know, they might've yelled "NIGGERS!" and got beat up for good reason.

A man with a gun when I don't have one is a threat. A man without a gun when I have one is not.

If you told me the same thing happened to two black guys, I would've said they brought it on themselves. Why put yourself in situations where you know something bad is going to happen? You don't see me walking around the DTES yelling "I'M RICH, BEEYAAATCH!"

Umm.. It's the United States, it it's legal for them to carry with a licence.

Also, since you say it's the guys fault for wanting to eat where ever he wanted and not being careful, I'm glad you can see why Michael Brown shouldn't have charged at the officer, if he didn't want to die, he shouldn't have charged at him.

[Ronin]

I'm well aware it's legal but carrying a concealed firearm just tells me that someone is a moron. There is no situation I can think of where that is a good idea and the simple act of having it on you puts you in situations like this one. Would those two morons have felt safe going into the waffle house without their straps?

That's just second amendment American bullshit. OH WE NEED OUR GUNS TO PROTECT OURSELVES! From what? There's zero wars happening on American soil. Anyone that carries a gun other than police officers or security or something is a certified idiot. It's this attitude that contributes to America having the highest rate of gun violence anywhere.

And you said so yourself, you have no idea what happened with Michael Brown. How do you know he charged at the officer apart from hearsay? But we can be pretty damn sure these guys went into a waffle house that they were warned not to go into and do so wearing a weapon.

[ray666]

I'm well aware it's legal but carrying a concealed firearm just tells me that someone is a moron. There is no situation I can think of where that is a good idea and the simple act of having it on you puts you in situations like this one. Would those two morons have felt safe going into the waffle house without their straps?

That's just second amendment American bullshit. OH WE NEED OUR GUNS TO PROTECT OURSELVES! From what? There's zero wars happening on American soil. Anyone that carries a gun other than police officers or security or something is a certified idiot. It's this attitude that contributes to America having the highest rate of gun violence anywhere.


Concealed carry permit holder saves the day - YouTube

[mikemhg]

Ronin, I give you props, you have been patient as hell. You are arguing with someone who is pretty much trolling you from what I can see here.

[Ronin]

Thanks.

When I worked retail, we were told to comply with anyone that was going to rob us. Honestly, I'd comply anyways even if they fired me after because there damn well is no way I'm dying for London Drugs. Those guys weren't interested in hurting anyone. They wanted money. Comply and you're safe. Who cares about other people's money?

Yes, that old man with the puny gun scared off two guys but for every time this has happened, there are probably 9 other incidents where that old man is lying there dead because dammit, he fires like 6 times and neither one of the suspects is incapacitated or dead. If those two guys were real criminals and not two idiots I suspect are carrying fake guns...then that old man would be dead because he chose to put his life in danger.

See? Stupid.

The only time a gun might be justified is if a person's primary goal is to kill you. Otherwise, people have nothing to gain from killing you rather than just taking your money or car or whatever. In all those situations, just give them what they want...

AND THEN PLOT VENGEANCE AFTER. :ilied:

[The7even]

Ronin, I give you props, you have been patient as hell. You are arguing with someone who is pretty much trolling you from what I can see here.

So this is what it's come down to...

"someone disagrees with me, what a troll".

:lol

[ray666]

Thanks.

When I worked retail, we were told to comply with anyone that was going to rob us. Honestly, I'd comply anyways even if they fired me after because there damn well is no way I'm dying for London Drugs. Those guys weren't interested in hurting anyone. They wanted money. Comply and you're safe. Who cares about other people's money?

Yes, that old man with the puny gun scared off two guys but for every time this has happened, there are probably 9 other incidents where that old man is lying there dead because dammit, he fires like 6 times and neither one of the suspects is incapacitated or dead. If those two guys were real criminals and not two idiots I suspect are carrying fake guns...then that old man would be dead because he chose to put his life in danger.

See? Stupid.

The only time a gun might be justified is if a person's primary goal is to kill you. Otherwise, people have nothing to gain from killing you rather than just taking your money or car or whatever. In all those situations, just give them what they want...

AND THEN PLOT VENGEANCE AFTER. :ilied:

Now the video above may not be the best example as the guy conceal carrying did "jump" to pull out his gun, but I believe the underlying reason when someone would want to conceal carry is that they believe they have the right not to be victimized or be able to defend themselves when they feel their lives are at risk.

Yes, guys who rob places are ultimately there to get money. And while it is best for people to just follow direction, there will also be other variables that come into play. What if some dumbass wants to play hero and start fighting the robbers (without a gun). What if an alarm gets triggered staff and the police end up surrounding the place? I don't know if I'm watching too many movies but now you have what was a simple robbery that turned into a possible hostage situation where the robbers are now firing and killing people; something they weren't planning on doing to begin with. If this were to happen, i'd think there would be some people who are willing to risk their lives to save themselves/others rather than sitting back and hoping for the best. In this instance, why not have the best tool you can get (a gun) to defend yourself and not say a chair?

The bottom line is that real violent criminals will also have guns and you never know what will happen. Police are not always there when you need them at that exact time, so why not have the best tool you can have to maximize your chances when these rare instances do occur.

Topics like these are never black and white. There will be intelligent people who would know when it is best to pull out their gun if they need to, but there will also be idiots who won't. While I most likely will not conceal carry if I had the choice, but I can understand how others may, especially if they live in a bad part of the city.

[Ronin]

There are so many more situations where you're likely to put yourself in danger having a gun than situations where a gun will save your life. I don't personally know anyone that was ever in a bank robbery where that would happen. Maybe because Canada but I don't know of anyone in my life where a gun would have saved their life. It's like being scared of flying because you're afraid the plane might crash when statistics say you're in much more danger in a car than in a plane. The chances of you hurting yourself with a gun are far greater than the chances you'll find a gun useful.

As a wise man, DMX once said, "Don't start nothing, won't be nothing."

[underscore]

Based on how the police officer lived his life I wouldn't be surprised if he was a raciest and shot him because he was black.

Darren Wilson’s first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities

FERGUSON, Mo. — The small city of Jennings, Mo., had a police department so troubled, and with so much tension between white officers and black residents, that the city council finally decided to disband it. Everyone in the Jennings police department was fired. New officers were brought in to create a credible department from scratch.

That was three years ago. One of the officers who worked in that department, and lost his job along with everyone else, was a young man named Darren Wilson.

Darren Wilson?s first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/darren-wilsons-first-job-was-on-a-troubled-police-force-disbanded-by-authorities/2014/08/23/1ac796f0-2a45-11e4-8593-da634b334390_story.html)

Were there ever any allegations filed against him or was he just fired because they were firing everybody?

Now the video above may not be the best example as the guy conceal carrying did "jump" to pull out his gun, but I believe the underlying reason when someone would want to conceal carry is that they believe they have the right not to be victimized or be able to defend themselves when they feel their lives are at risk.

Yes, guys who rob places are ultimately there to get money. And while it is best for people to just follow direction, there will also be other variables that come into play. What if some dumbass wants to play hero and start fighting the robbers (without a gun). What if an alarm gets triggered staff and the police end up surrounding the place? I don't know if I'm watching too many movies but now you have what was a simple robbery that turned into a possible hostage situation where the robbers are now firing and killing people; something they weren't planning on doing to begin with. If this were to happen, i'd think there would be some people who are willing to risk their lives to save themselves/others rather than sitting back and hoping for the best. In this instance, why not have the best tool you can get (a gun) to defend yourself and not say a chair?

The bottom line is that real violent criminals will also have guns and you never know what will happen. Police are not always there when you need them at that exact time, so why not have the best tool you can have to maximize your chances when these rare instances do occur.

Topics like these are never black and white. There will be intelligent people who would know when it is best to pull out their gun if they need to, but there will also be idiots who won't. While I most likely will not conceal carry if I had the choice, but I can understand how others may, especially if they live in a bad part of the city.

Because the stupid gun-toting idiots make things worse way more often than they help. The US is proof of that, pull up the per-capita stats and they have a shitload more guns than anyone else and they shoot each other a shitload more than anyone else, they themselves are the biggest proof that their fucked up mindset doesn't work at all.

And if you think having a gun will help you because bad guys have guns, consider this: the bad guys are the only ones that know things are about to go sideways, nobody else has a fucking clue what's about to happen. So no matter what kind of weapon you have on you, it doesn't matter because the bad guys have the element of surprise. Now if they're robbing a bank in a country where nobody carries a gun, they know that they can get in, get the (insured, so there's no reason to risk your neck) money that they want, and get out. Now if the same thing happens in a country where everyone carried a gun, and what do yo think the robbers are going to do? They're going to be much more likely to kill people while they have the advantage and eliminate any risk of some idiot trying to be a hero.

[multicartual]

So this is what it's come down to...

"someone disagrees with me, what a troll".

:lol

Being called a troll is how people try and silence opposing views online

[multicartual]

Maybe because Canada but I don't know of anyone in my life where a gun would have saved their life.

Yes but remember the term "Southern hospitality"?

From what I was told, it originates from their propensity to shoot anyone who appeared like trouble. If you were polite and peaceful, people would welcome you like one of their own.

I will say this, perhaps guns have saved no one, ever.

But I will also say this:

I guarantee that the knowledge that homeowners probably own guns and know how to use them has definitely prevented robberies, rapes and murders.

[The7even]

There are so many more situations where you're likely to put yourself in danger having a gun than situations where a gun will save your life.

Please.. stop.

Your feelings don't count as evidence or data.

[Lomac]

Please.. stop.

Your feelings don't count as evidence or data.

Er, Ronin's actually correct about that...

[parm104]

Please.. stop.

Your feelings don't count as evidence or data.

I said this exact same thing to you TWICE in this thread but you decided it was irrelevant and now you're spitting that same line to other people? LOL hypocritical much?

Your feelings of whether Brown was a good guy or a bad guy, a trouble maker or not, a thief or honest abe will not be used as evidence in court. And Brown's actions prior to the confrontation with the officer won't be used as evidence in court either (contrary to what you believe.)

[Ronin]

Please.. stop.

Your feelings don't count as evidence or data.

I feel in terms of statistics.

[Manic!]

McKown had done a lot of training for this exact type of situation and look what happened to him.

Tacoma Mall shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

During the course of the shooting, Brendan (Dan) McKown, a legally armed citizen, intervened. McKown drew his 9mm CZ pistol and verbally commanded Maldonado to put down his gun. Maldonado's response was to fire on McKown, striking him once in the leg and four times in the torso, damaging McKown's spine and leaving him paralyzed. In addition to McKown, five other people were shot but not seriously injured, and a seventh person received a non-gunshot injury. At least one other person in the mall at the time also pulled a gun on Maldonado, but did not fire for fear of hitting innocent bystanders.

Having a gun really helped him.

There were armed civilians at Columbine and the Gabrielle Gifford Tuscan shootings and look at those outcomes.

[The7even]

Er, Ronin's actually correct about that...

He's not. At least not according to statistics here in the states.

Keep in mind that hand guns are banned in Chicago.. and look at how helpful that is.

[The7even]

McKown had done a lot of training for this exact type of situation and look what happened to him.

Tacoma Mall shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacoma_Mall_shooting)



Having a gun really helped him.

There were armed civilians at Columbine and the Gabrielle Gifford Tuscan shootings and look at those outcomes.

You have to nit pick at things to get your point across.

Here's my example... firearms are banned in Chicago.
Shootings all day every day.
Do I have to pull up homicides by firearms for the Chicago area for you to prove my point?

[The7even]

I feel in terms of statistics.

And yet you have none to show.

[Manic!]

You have to nit pick at things to get your point across.

Here's my example... firearms are banned in Chicago.
Shootings all day every day.
Do I have to pull up homicides by firearms for the Chicago area for you to prove my point?

Guess what fireworks are banned in Nanaimo but every Halloween people still light them off. How because they just have to go 5 minutes out of town to get them. Also Firearms are not banned in Chicago. Get you facts straight before you post. Google helps.

[parm104]

You have to nit pick at things to get your point across.

Here's my example... firearms are banned in Chicago.


Da fuq is wrong with you?? I thought you're FROM Chicago. You would always talk about how you have first-hand experience of gun violence and the crime situation in Illinois and you come up with something as dumb as "guns are banned in Chicago??"

It took me ONE WEEK living in the states to realize that firearm possession is a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT of every American citizen. So how the fuq would they be able to ban firearms in Chicago?? ANY ban of firearm possession in the United States would be a constitutional infringement and therefore impossible to impose.

LOL when you're trying to portray a point of view, an opinion, a personal experience etc, it would be wise not to make up shit that people can so easily call you out on. LOL guns banned + America loll. Get outta town!

[parm104]

Please.. stop.

Your feelings don't count as evidence or data.

He's not. At least not according to statistics here in the states.

Keep in mind that hand guns are banned in Chicago.. and look at how helpful that is.

Unlike your "Guns are banned in Chicago" bullshit, Ronin's statement re: being more likely to injure yourself with a firearm than to protect yourself from harm is backed up by statistical data. It's very simple:

Let's take a look at firearm suicide and self-inflicted injuries for example. Full-disclosure, I am looking at data from 2011 and I am doing so because that's what I found first:

The number of suicide deaths in America were: 39,518.
Out of this total number of suicide deaths, 19,900 were self-inflicted by a firearm.

In that same year, there were 16,238 homicides.
Out of this total number of homicides, 11,068 were firearm homicides.

In a report released in 2013 by the Centre for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), accidental discharge of a firearm was ranked #100 in top causes of death in America. In this same report, intentional self-harm (or suicide) by discharge of firearm was ranked #105 in top leading causes of death in America. In this SAME report, assault (homicide) by discharge of firearm was ranked #107 in the leading causes of death in America.

In the American Journal of Epidemiology, data from the US mortality follow-back survey was collected and researchers came to the following conclusions:

- Those persons with guns in the home were at greater risk than those without guns in the home of dying from a homicide in the home.
- They were also at greater risk of dying from a firearm homicide, but risk varied by age and whether the person was living with others at the time of death.
- The risk of dying from a suicide in the home was greater for males in homes with guns than for males without guns in the home.
- Results show that regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of firearms in the home, having a gun in the home was associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and firearm suicide in the home.

These are facts and stats extracted from scholarly articles and journals. You can't make shit like this up. Yes, it is late and I may be quickly breezing through these articles rather than taking my time to fully grasp what they're saying in their entirety, but I feel like I've relayed a pretty accurate portrayal of these stats and studies.

I frankly don't care about the current gun situation in America because "the people" of America have decided they would rather live with a Constitution that protects their right to have a firearm than to not. However, I feel the need to get involved with this gun debate fiasco simply because of the numerous ignorant and outlandish things you have said and accused other people of saying.

Once again, Ronin wasn't pulling random shit out of his ass and spitting it out in a thread here; rather he was providing us with a simple, brief fact that a person is more likely to die from a self-inflicted gun injury than they are to protect themselves from someone who is prepared to assault them with a gun.

Good day, sir.

[StylinRed]

just google conceal carry shootings maybe add in 'accident' or 'murders' and you'll get enough results showcasing conceal weapon carriers killing bystanders thanks to their skills or you'll get results of mass shooters who were conceal carry license holders and that should shut you up about using the 'they save lives' argument

[supremematt85]

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/583/049/acd.png

[supremematt85]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/691/017/22c.png

[The7even]

Da fuq is wrong with you?? I thought you're FROM Chicago. You would always talk about how you have first-hand experience of gun violence and the crime situation in Illinois and you come up with something as dumb as "guns are banned in Chicago??"

It took me ONE WEEK living in the states to realize that firearm possession is a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT of every American citizen. So how the fuq would they be able to ban firearms in Chicago?? ANY ban of firearm possession in the United States would be a constitutional infringement and therefore impossible to impose.

LOL when you're trying to portray a point of view, an opinion, a personal experience etc, it would be wise not to make up shit that people can so easily call you out on. LOL guns banned + America loll. Get outta town!

Here?s What Happened to Crime in Chicago After Illinois Finally Passed Concealed Carry Law | TheBlaze.com (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/04/04/gun-control-advocates-who-say-more-guns-equal-more-crime-might-not-want-to-read-this/)

[parm104]

Here?s What Happened to Crime in Chicago After Illinois Finally Passed Concealed Carry Law | TheBlaze.com (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/04/04/gun-control-advocates-who-say-more-guns-equal-more-crime-might-not-want-to-read-this/)

Why are you showing me this? I thought you said firearms are banned in Chicago? This Mickey Mouse link from "The Blaze" just confirms what I said, they are NOT banned...

[Lomac]

Here?s What Happened to Crime in Chicago After Illinois Finally Passed Concealed Carry Law | TheBlaze.com (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/04/04/gun-control-advocates-who-say-more-guns-equal-more-crime-might-not-want-to-read-this/)

Now, obviously I don't live in Chicago but I think it might be a little too early to attribute a decline in murders being the result of concealed carry. Didn't you guys just have the coldest winter in history?

Coldest December-March Period in Chicago History (http://www.crh.noaa.gov/news/display_cmsstory.php?wfo=lot&storyid=101458&source=0)

I know crime certainly drops in the GVRD when temperatures drop; I'm sure it's the same down there. A plus B doesn't necessarily always equal C. Give it a year and if the trend continues, then I may concede the point. However, until then, I can't contribute one with another.





Man, just looking at the stats between Canada and USA is interesting.

Canada as a whole has 1.56 homicides per 100,000 people.
USA as a whole has 4.7 homicides per 100,000 people.

Chicago has 15.2 homicides per 100,000 people.
Surrey has 6.2 homicides per 100,000 people.
Vancouver has 1 homicide per 100,000 people.

I find it interesting because Surrey is the butt of all the crime jokes here and the only people who live there that carry firearms are the gang members, yet the homicide rate is less than half that of a city where any citizen can own a gun (not to mention the Castle Law) and now legally conceal carry.

Obviously there are a lot of different social and economic factors at play here and not all of those homicides were firearm related, but it's still intriguing to see the difference between two countries that are, for all intents and purposes, basically the same.

Don't get me wrong; I'm a fan of guns and I'll shoot 'em whenever I get the chance. However, one has to wonder if one country's way of thinking just might be saner and more logical than the other... AND that includes the adoption (and subsequent dropping) of Bill C-38.

[Lomac]

Upon further thought, I think a better statistic to follow would be robberies instead of homicides. Robberies are more likely to happen to the average citizen, rather than an attempt on your life (though I realize sometimes those two can often end up hand in hand). And with a robbery, you may be more prone to try and defend yourself with whatever you happen to have on hand.

Currently:

Chicago - 497.6 (per 100k)
Seattle - 226.7 (for comparison)
Surrey - 158.8
Vancouver - 148.6

Numbers in all four of these cities tend to fluctuate between each year, so a decline in one year doesn't necessarily mean anything as it can easily rise again in the next. However, the thing to watch for is a constant decline in Chicago's numbers to see if conceal carry will be an effective preventative measure.

[The7even]

Obviously there are a lot of different social and economic factors at play here and not all of those homicides were firearm related, but it's still intriguing to see the difference between two countries that are, for all intents and purposes, basically the same.

Don't get me wrong; I'm a fan of guns and I'll shoot 'em whenever I get the chance. However, one has to wonder if one country's way of thinking just might be saner and more logical than the other... AND that includes the adoption (and subsequent dropping) of Bill C-38.

Canada is by far better.

Why are you showing me this? I thought you said firearms are banned in Chicago? This Mickey Mouse link from "The Blaze" just confirms what I said, they are NOT banned...

Because they were banned for a long, long time and during that time, Chicago had no murders and was safe.... oh, wait. No. The exact opposite is true.


Here's something funny.

Notice the wording in this article.

CAUGHT ON CAMERA: Three people violently attacked by large group of teenagers; video is going viral | FOX6Now.com (http://fox6now.com/2014/09/07/caught-on-camera-three-people-violently-attacked-by-large-group-of-teenagers-video-is-going-viral/)

"Teenagers" Avoid using the word black.
"three-people" Avoid identifying the victim too.

When reverse happens, which by the way is rare as fuck..

White Nazi racists attack innocent 2 year old black Ivy League student.

Here's a challenge for you.. find me something reverse.

I'll try.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=white+teens+attack+blacks


:lol at results.

But please, do ignore what's happening, as long as you are politically correct, the world is a happy place, there is no evil.

Here,I'll find you the most recent few.
I challenge you to find me as many as easily.

Brooklyn group of black youths blocks white couple's car, bloody victims in racial attack: cops - NY Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/brooklyn-youths-attack-couple-racial-attack-cops-article-1.1490901)

Gang of Black Teens Beats White Memphis Grocery Store Employee into Unconsciousness (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/09/07/Gang-of-Black-Teens-Chanting-Fan-Mob-Beat-Memphis-Grocery-Store-Employee-Customer)

DailyKenn.com/blog: Black mob of 30 teens attacks white motorists (http://dailykenn.blogspot.com/2014/02/black-mob-of-30-teens-attack-motorists.html)

Also very very recent.

Savage racially motivated mob attack caught on camera in Springfield, MO (http://topconservativenews.com/2014/09/savage-racially-motivated-mob-attack-caught-on-camera-in-springfield-mo/)

Look at the piece of shit white male attacking the black mans feet with his face. Racist piece of shit, deserved what he got.

My favorite.
http://www.infowars.com/white-marine-beaten-by-black-mob-in-michael-brown-revenge-attack/
But its okay, he wanted waffles, that terrible murderer!

http://toprightnews.com/?p=5394
Evil racist white "lifeguard" attacks innocent black teenagers fists with face and mouth. Racist deserved it because slavery existed.
Poor black teenager was going to go to college soon and become a doctor.

http://www.19actionnews.com/story/24698051/mob-of-teens-attack-man-downtown
I like how you can't tell who the attackers are until they point out the slurs that were shouted.

If this was reversed, you know the headline and what it'd look like.

So please, keep pretending there isn't a problem.. because you can.

SMH, yolo.

[Manic!]

Off-duty St. Louis officer shoots, kills man who fired at him


Off-duty officer shoots, kills man in St. Louis - CNN.com@@AMEPARAM@@video: 'us/2014/10/09/bts-dotson-mo-police-involved-shooting-protests.kmov'@@AMEPARAM@@us/2014/10/09/bts-dotson-mo-police-involved-shooting-protests.kmov



(CNN) -- An off-duty St. Louis police officer shot and killed an 18-year-old Wednesday, firing his gun 17 times, authorities said.

Angry residents damaged several police cars in response, even though police say the man fired first.

The death comes on the heels of the Michael Brown shooting two months ago in the St. Louis suburb of Ferguson, and just ahead of a "Weekend of Resistance" in St. Louis, where activists will push for movement in the investigation into that case.
Tensions rise after police shooting
Off-duty officer shoots, kills man

Like Brown, the teen who was killed in Wednesday's shooting was black. The officers in both incidents are white, police said.

The difference: Brown was unarmed. In Wednesday's incident, the teen had a gun, said St. Louis police Chief Sam Dotson.

Tensions are already high in the community, and it's uncertain how the latest shooting will affect its mood.

"At the scene of yet another young man's death," tweeted St. Louis Alderman Antonio French. "This happens too often in our city. It's a crisis that we should all be concerned about."

An animated crowd quickly gathered late Wednesday near the site close to the Missouri Botanical Garden, chanting slogans as St. Louis police officers stood by.

"Hey, hey, ho, ho, these killer cops have got to go," the crowd chanted, along with, "Who do you serve? Who do you protect?"

The confrontations with police were intense and laced with profanity.

"That was somebody's baby," screamed one man, referring to the man who was killed.

"Think about your own child," pleaded another person in the crowd.

Despite the tensions, Dotson said no businesses were looted and no windows were smashed. He praised officers for showing a "tremendous amount of restraint" as members of the crowd confronted them face-to-face and damaged police cruisers.

Started with a pedestrian check

The officer, a six-year veteran of the force, was working a second job for a security company, one that was approved by his department. He had on his police uniform.

While on patrol, the officer saw three black males run away as he approached. He gave chase, because one of them was holding up his pants in a way that made the officer believe the teen may be carrying a gun, Dotson said.

The officer and one of the three tussled. The teen ran off, then turned around and fired at least three shots at the officer, Dotson said.

The officer returned fire, killing the teen.
Singing protest shocks crowd
Ferguson fights media over public records

Police recovered a 9 mm handgun. And Dotson said the teen was "no stranger to law enforcement." He didn't offer details, citing privacy concerns.

The two other males have not been apprehended.

'Weekend of Resistance'

In August, Brown, an African-American, was shot to death by a white police officer in Ferguson. The death of the unarmed 18-year-old fueled protests and sparked a nationwide debate on police use of force.

Protesters are planning a series of demonstrations, rallies and events in Ferguson and St. Louis this weekend to call for an end to racial profiling and what they call police violence.

This weekend's protests start with a rally and outside the office of the prosecutor investigating the Brown shooting.

Demonstrators will call for Bob McCulloch to step aside and allow a special prosecutor to be appointed.

Additional marches and demonstrations will mark the weekend, along with "civil disobedience actions around the St. Louis region," according to a statement from organizers that also says thousands of people from across the country are expected.

[multicartual]

http://drrichswier.com/wp-content/uploads/al-sharpton-angry-2.jpg

[Manic!]

Grand jury verdict about to be released in a few minutes. Prosecutor waited till 9 P.M, to release the verdict. If he is not charged I think Ferguson will explode. Large crowds already on the street.

[kluk]

Bloomberg TV: Business Live TV - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/tv/)

streaming live now

[punkwax]

Live on Global now.

[murd0c]

this sounds like he might get off

[EmperorIS]

Yea he's talking way too much for an indictment verdict.

[Manic!]

No charge. Things going t get crazy.

[Ronin]

These sound like excuses for not indicting.

EDIT: No charges against Wilson.

Livestream of the crowd just cut out?

[EmperorIS]

HE"S OFF THE HOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOO

white people wins again!

[Great68]

Glad to hear that actual evidence and testimony were considered in reaching the correct verdict, and NOT public outrage.

[Ronin]

The stream of the city outside looks like there's a lot of people running around but no violence or police confrontation.

[RecklessNS]

People chanting "Can't stop the revolution", "Pigs gunna fry, cuz" and "They got snipers on the roof, bruh"

Yeezus.

Some old white lady is out there looking confused and shit.

"I wiff dah pepo"

[Manic!]

Tear gas is flying.

[Hondaracer]

lol fuck buddy on CNN almost got ht in the head wit ha can of tear gas

[Manic!]

A Little Caesars is burning to the ground the took out a Mcdicks too.

[ForbiddenX]

^And a Walgreens

https://vine.co/v/O1XrMg90ZAg

[Hondaracer]

Cosby using this distraction to go on a rape spree

[kluk]

i want some crazy bread now..

[multicartual]

$5 hot and ready!

Fire! Fire!

[ODStryker00]

Shots fired at police. Holy shit.

[kluk]

live reddit feed

[live] Live Feed for riot and protest in Ferguson, MO. Scanner reports, news links (http://www.reddit.com/live/tdrph3y49ftn/)

[richardmozis]

Shots fired at police. Holy shit.

Those shots were rounds blowing off inside the burning police cars...

[Lomac]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/126/314/3cd8a33a.png

Sigh.

[MR_BIGGS]

23042

[Tegra_Devil]

we dont agree with your decision...............lets burn down a walgreens!....way to make black people sound like criminals......they are just adding to the stereotype...

[RRxtar]

Saw something today that said that 22% of african americans believe violent protests are justifiable.


I wonder how they are justifying rioting and looting and burning down their own neighbourhoods. Fighting for social justice? Or just wanting to see the world burn while blaming everyone else.

[kluk]

All of us right now :Popcorn

[Sir_Loin]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3QynnOCcAAkXXF.jpg

[Hondaracer]

why should they show anyone the evidence? not like that would change anything. No offense but i'd be surprised if a lot of these protesters could sit down and read the transcript.

[Tegra_Devil]

there are normal african americans....then there are niggas.....im sure you can guess which are doing most of this...unfortunately im sure that city is 80% niggas

[DragonChi]

Showing how they got to their descision might have prevented this riot. Instead of a trial looking like a charade.

[Tegra_Devil]

Showing how they got to their descision might have prevented this riot. Instead of a trial looking like a charade.

people seeing how the canucks lost the stanley cup finals twice didnt prevent a riot :troll:

[320icar]

So remember when that black kid was beaten to death by a bunch of cops all those years ago, and not charged? Then a whole city rioted and it was one of the biggest civil rights movements?

Maybe you guys should be more open about this

[DragonChi]

people seeing how the canucks lost the stanley cup finals twice didnt prevent a riot :troll:

Touche! Well played sir. lol.

[Mr.C]

I've had one of these poor disenfranchised youth tell me he was gonna kill me if I didn't hand over everything I had. I'm trying, but it's really really hard to feel sympathetic.

Sure, perhaps the officer should have gotten charged with something; then again, I didn't hear the evidence, so I can't really comment.

[underscore]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3QynnOCcAAkXXF.jpg

:facepalm:

[GS8]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3QynnOCcAAkXXF.jpg

What a Bland post

[CRS]

we dont agree with your decision...............lets burn down a walgreens!....way to make black people sound like criminals......they are just adding to the stereotype...

http://i.imgur.com/nMRkglY.png

[Vale46Rossi]

sigh, fucked up on so many levels right now.

[Vale46Rossi]

https://vine.co/v/O1XlODJtUrh

At a store in Ferguson

[multicartual]

Aren't you all so glad Richmond is full of rich asians instead of poor black people?

[flagella]

You mean the whole greater Vancouver area barely has any black people?

[Qmx323]

Way to add more stigma to your own cause.

I'm sure the normal African Americans are face palming just as hard as everyone else is.

[multicartual]

You mean the whole greater Vancouver area barely has any black people?


I have banged one of the hottest black chicks in the city


She says the only black guys in Vancouver are nerds or gay, but in New West there are some somali mother fuckers who are apparently not so nice!

[Soundy]

why should they show anyone the evidence? not like that would change anything. No offense but i'd be surprised if a lot of these protesters could sit down and read the transcript.

It's the same thing with every controversial court decision - most people already made up their minds long before, based on their own ideas or prejudices, and no amount of evidence or even outright proof to the contrary will sway them. You could put every shred of evidence out there, and some twat with an agenda will still cherry-pick facts from it and use those to "prove" his own points... and people who agree with him will gobble it up.

[adambomb]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCg03MLx8Dg





Theme song for last night. :buttrock:

[meme405]

Lol the news is just ridiculous...

"We've just confirmed that there is no building on fire, it is actually a garbage can that's on fire"

Or "they aren't using tear gas, it's smoke. We've confirmed they are using tear gas"

Meanwhile CNN reports were all 'this is not a riot' 'this is just smoke not tear gas' 'this is still in control' - until their reporter got hit in the head with a flying rock.

I also heard they were giving away free bean bags, just like a sporting event. Kinda makes me want to go...

:troll:

EDIT:

HAHAHAHAHA Just found this:

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2014/11/25/sot-sidner-hit-by-rock.cnn.html

Fucking golden. She took it like a champ.

[Hondaracer]

Imo there will never be a time when racism does not exist.

Even if there wasn't all the past history with slavery, inequality, etc. Black people are black and white people are white. That difference alone is enough to segregate each group.

Also last night was such a prime example of all these people who cry inequality and equal rights being their worst enemy.

It's quite a bit like the pro-pot activists. No one cares to listen to the guy who goes on the news and says weed is good, decriminalize it when the guy saying it has dread locks, 4 nose piercings, and is wearing a hemp poncho.

When Browns dad goes on the news and the guy has a "grill" on his teeth and a flat brimmed ball cap with the stickers still on, do you think white America is thinking "oh no, the 'system' must have gotten this one wrong" of course not.

[multicartual]

When Browns dad goes on the news and the guy has a "grill" on his teeth and a flat brimmed ball cap with the stickers still on, do you think white America is thinking "oh no, the 'system' must have gotten this one wrong" of course not.


Old white female Canadian authors on Twitter make Ferguson sound like a nazi death camp for blacks, so fucking out of touch


All you can do about modern media is laugh, anything else and you're just encouraging it and increasing your likelihood of going insane yourself

[murd0c]

Imo there will never be a time when racism does not exist.

Even if there wasn't all the past history with slavery, inequality, etc. Black people are black and white people are white. That difference alone is enough to segregate each group.

Also last night was such a prime example of all these people who cry inequality and equal rights being their worst enemy.

It's quite a bit like the pro-pot activists. No one cares to listen to the guy who goes on the news and says weed is good, decriminalize it when the guy saying it has dread locks, 4 nose piercings, and is wearing a hemp poncho.

When Browns dad goes on the news and the guy has a "grill" on his teeth and a flat brimmed ball cap with the stickers still on, do you think white America is thinking "oh no, the 'system' must have gotten this one wrong" of course not.

Watch the movie Bulworth if they go with that plan racism will never exist :troll:

[flagella]

I have banged one of the hottest black chicks in the city


She says the only black guys in Vancouver are nerds or gay, but in New West there are some somali mother fuckers who are apparently not so nice!

pics or didn't happen

[Tone Loc]

When Browns dad goes on the news and the guy has a "grill" on his teeth and a flat brimmed ball cap with the stickers still on, do you think white America is thinking "oh no, the 'system' must have gotten this one wrong" of course not.

Yes thank you. I know I'll probably get failed hard for this but in first year post-sec I once had this Asian guy give a presentation on how Asians (specifically, Vietnamese) are racially profiled by police/society/media... all the while he was wearing an Ed Hardy cap, North Face bomber, Kappa pants and Lacoste shoes with that stupid ass Gucci murse. Maybe if you didn't dress like a fucking retard aka gangster wannabe you wouldn't get profiled by the cops. My point: stereotypes exist, but it's your choice whether you want to live by them or transcend them. Just don't be surprised if you live by them and nobody takes you seriously... Just my $0.02

[BrRsn]

I have banged one of the hottest black chicks in the city


She says the only black guys in Vancouver are nerds or gay, but in New West there are some somali mother fuckers who are apparently not so nice!

OT but black girls are probably the hardest to approach in Van -- they have these walls put up from all the years of white guys just wanting to sleep with them to satisfy their jungle fever

not to profile white guys ... I only noticed this because I might have a slight case of jungle fever :suspicious:

[punkwax]

I'll never forget this black stripper I saw at Mugs n Jugs out in New West back in the day.. dancing to Bad Mama Jama..

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/44966138.jpg

[RRxtar]

good rant by the Milwaukee police chief

White Police Chief Loses It and Tells the Blunt TRUTH About Black Crime [VIDEO] (http://conservativetribune.com/police-black-crime/)

[SpartanAir]

I'll never forget this black stripper I saw at Mugs n Jugs out in New West back in the day.. dancing to Bad Mama Jama..

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/44966138.jpg

Was her name Topaz? Weird you would say that, I have a story...

We took my buddy to Mugs n Jugs in New West for his stag, and he had a thing for black women. We got him a lap dance with a black stripper named Topaz..

My friend's name is Beau. She wanted to give him an autographed photo, but her english was awful, and I'll never forget the exact wording of what she wrote:

"Dear Bau, I love the way your balls smacks my ass. Sign, Topaz."

Later, we found out Beau's wife would be upset if she found out he got a lap dance (silly, I know). At the reception, we all played some wedding games, including all tables coming up with a rhyming couplet about the new married couple. I came up with the perfect one, that only my friends and Beau would understand, but was perfectly disguised...

"Good charm and wit are some things that Beau has,
We're glad you chose the diamond ring, over Topaz."

:troll:

[DragonChi]

copy and pasted from someone on FB:
Ferguson case.
Grand Jury decision transcript: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2014/11/24/ferguson-assets/grand-jury-testimony.pdf
"tl;dr: Stole $50 of cigars, went after cop while he was in his car, gun goes off in the car, Officer Wilson exits car, Brown gets shot while charging officer Wilson, blood/casings/most physical evidence backs up Officer Wilson's story. Totally reasonable to throw this case out." -AnAngryPirate
Ferguson Decision Megathread. : AskReddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2nbuxe/ferguson_decision_megathread/)

[SpartanAir]

...

[rslater]

Thought this would be of relevance.

Chief Flynn after Fire and Police Commission meeting - YouTube

[RRxtar]

^ 4 posts up

[Harvey Specter]

Live feed via Vice News.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4fo-9d7PMo#t=6260

[underscore]

Facebook lawyers are going nuts with this. I grow increasingly tired of all these idiots who act like they're so forward thinking yet they'll instantly use generalizations if it fuels their stupid try hard "ideals".

[adambomb]

:fulloffuck:

A vehicle plowed through a group of demonstrators in Minneapolis Tuesday afternoon during a march and rally in the wake of a Missouri grand jury...


Car plows through protesters during Ferguson rally in south Minneapolis | Star Tribune (http://www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/283891941.html)

[Ronin]

Was her name Topaz? Weird you would say that, I have a story...

We took my buddy to Mugs n Jugs in New West for his stag, and he had a thing for black women. We got him a lap dance with a black stripper named Topaz..

My friend's name is Beau. She wanted to give him an autographed photo, but her english was awful, and I'll never forget the exact wording of what she wrote:

"Dear Bau, I love the way your balls smacks my ass. Sign, Topaz."

Later, we found out Beau's wife would be upset if she found out he got a lap dance (silly, I know). At the reception, we all played some wedding games, including all tables coming up with a rhyming couplet about the new married couple. I came up with the perfect one, that only my friends and Beau would understand, but was perfectly disguised...

"Good charm and wit are some things that Beau has,
We're glad you chose the diamond ring, over Topaz."

:troll:

Great story, bro. (srs)

You better fucking hope no one around here knows Beau or his wife and tells her though lol.

[Soundy]

Yes thank you. I know I'll probably get failed hard for this but in first year post-sec I once had this Asian guy give a presentation on how Asians (specifically, Vietnamese) are racially profiled by police/society/media... all the while he was wearing an Ed Hardy cap, North Face bomber, Kappa pants and Lacoste shoes with that stupid ass Gucci murse. Maybe if you didn't dress like a fucking retard aka gangster wannabe you wouldn't get profiled by the cops. My point: stereotypes exist, but it's your choice whether you want to live by them or transcend them. Just don't be surprised if you live by them and nobody takes you seriously... Just my $0.02
More to the point, if you're going to claim stereotyping and profiling, be sure you've got the right stereotype - in this case, don't cry racism and say you're being profiled because you're Asian, when you're really being profiled for looking and acting all big bad gangsta.

Actually not unlike many threads in PF: "cops stopped me because I'm Asian/black/white (in Richmond)/male/female/noob driver/riced out car, that's profiling and it's bad! It had NOTHING to do with the fact I was doing 120 down Knight St. at 3am..."

[RRxtar]

^reminds me of when I used to ride sportbikes. There was a guy in our club who said "I've been pulled over 27 times in the last 3 years. The fucking pigs are always harassing me!! "

Had nothing to do with him being a wannabe stunter doing stoppies at every red light and standup wheelies on every green, and lane splitting everywhere. Riding in a wife beater, shorts and flip flops, and occasionally no helmet.

[iEatClams]

I'm not here to comment about what actually happened in the Michael Brown case.

But I can certainly relate to how many of the protestors feel (not the looters, anarchists etc) about police authority and their perception of abuse of power.

I understand being a cop is difficult job, and the number of good cops greatly outweigh the bad ones, and that they are people too. Let’s be honest here, many feel they are above the law. They protect their own like no other. There NEEDS to be more accountability.

You hear too many articles about bad cop behaviour and how they get away scotch free, and it’s like impossible to prove they did anything wrong. I think there is something systemically wrong when so many people feel this way about the police authority.



Take this case right here: No charges for Sûreté du Québec officer in car crash that killed 5-year-old - Montreal - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/no-charges-for-s%C3%BBret%C3%A9-du-qu%C3%A9bec-officer-in-car-crash-that-killed-5-year-old-1.2840143)

The officer wasn't charged with anything after he (without his emergency lights on) crashed into another motorist and caused death - in an instance where he was speeding well over the legal limit. This is a story where a father was driving his kid to school and the kid died and because the officer is not charged, the family will not be compensated. I bet this family thinks justice has not been served.

[Tone Loc]

I'm not here to comment about what actually happened in the Michael Brown case.

But I can certainly relate to how many of the protestors feel (not the looters, anarchists etc) about police authority and their perception of abuse of power.

I understand being a cop is difficult job, and the number of good cops greatly outweigh the bad ones, and that they are people too. Let’s be honest here, many feel they are above the law. They protect their own like no other. There NEEDS to be more accountability.

You hear too many articles about bad cop behaviour and how they get away scotch free, and it’s like impossible to prove they did anything wrong. I think there is something systemically wrong when so many people feel this way about the police authority.



Take this case right here: No charges for Sûreté du Québec officer in car crash that killed 5-year-old - Montreal - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/no-charges-for-s%C3%BBret%C3%A9-du-qu%C3%A9bec-officer-in-car-crash-that-killed-5-year-old-1.2840143)

The officer wasn't charged with anything after he (without his emergency lights on) crashed into another motorist and caused death - in an instance where he was speeding well over the legal limit. This is a story where a father was driving his kid to school and the kid died and because the officer is not charged, the family will not be compensated. I bet this family thinks justice has not been served.

Which is why I personally think it's high time for us to do what the UK did a few years back and make their police officers wear Go-Pro cameras with recording devices. I think it would help in cases such as this where everyone has a motive when the judge/jury can simply see the video interaction to find out what "really" happened. Personally, if I were a police officer I would wear one, simply so people can't blame me out of a "fuck the pigs" mentality and instead be forced to be civil knowing they are being recorded.

And to the cops who think it's a bad idea, I'll repeat what one RCMP officer told me when I wouldn't open my trunk for a "random search"....: "If you have nothing to hide, why are you so defensive?"

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Imo there will never be a time when racism does not exist.

Even if there wasn't all the past history with slavery, inequality, etc. Black people are black and white people are white. That difference alone is enough to segregate each group.

yup

any physical difference is enough to spark segregation. especially when you are looking for a reason to distance yourself from or hate the other group.

for this reason alone, equality among gender, and races. will never exist.

even if we looked EXACTLY the same. there were no genders or races. just 1 look. we would start segregating ourselves and hating each other based on ideals alone.

if you think "this" you're X, if you think "that", you're Y.

no matter what segregation is inevitable.

[scottsman]

Damn I am happy that I am not living in North America and having to put up with the constant bombardment of this bull shit. Even following up with the stuff happening on CNN.com is too much. This whole situation is out of control, the parents of Michael Brown were on Nancy Grace and Nancy was actually crying along with the parents. Seriously what crock of shit is that.

The parents actually went to the UN to speak about this case. How absurd is that.

[Hondaracer]

I'm sure that Sun Moon Kim or whatever the head of UN's name is was quite impressed with the dads "grill"

[Soundy]

Damn I am happy that I am not living in North America and having to put up with the constant bombardment of this bull shit. Even following up with the stuff happening on CNN.com is too much. This whole situation is out of control, the parents of Michael Brown were on Nancy Grace and Nancy was actually crying along with the parents. Seriously what crock of shit is that.
Because Nancy Grace.

On another note... now that the cop isn't going to be indicted, that clearly indicates the US legal system doesn't consider this to be a case of murder... can we maybe change the thread title to something a little less antagonistic?

[mikemhg]

I'm angered by this whole Michael Brown issue.

We all know there is a MAJOR problem with how black men are being treated by police throughout the United States, to deny that there is a problem is putting your head in the sand. There is a socio-economic problem that also requires a discussion, there are inherent issues that need to be addressed.

The problem is that this Michael Brown case isn't a good example, in fact it's a terrible one. There are far better examples of reckless police brutality that one can look at just in the last few weeks alone, I don't understand why this Michael Brown case is being used as the catalyst, when really it shouldn't. Using this case as an example to fight the issues with the police and the African-American community is faulty, and I think it derogates the argument.

[Ronin]

How about the 12-year old kid holding a BB gun that was shot within seconds of the police arriving on scene...? The squad car was barely stopped when that kid was on the ground.

I have to believe that a 12-year old kid would have the awareness to say "What? No, this isn't a real gun, officer..."

[underscore]

The kid that wouldn't raise his hands after the police were called about the gun, and instead reached for the gun? That kid?

[Ronin]

Have you seen the vid? I don't see how that cop even had time to say reach for the sky.

[CRS]

Have you seen the vid? I don't see how that cop even had time to say reach for the sky.

Reference for the vid?

[Soundy]

Have you seen the vid? I don't see how that cop even had time to say reach for the sky.

Was probably expecting to head him off at the pass.... :badpokerface:

[Soundy]

Photo: Police officer and young demonstrator share hug during Ferguson rally in Portland | OregonLive.com (http://www.oregonlive.com/multimedia/index.ssf/2014/11/photo_police_officer_and_citiz.html)

http://imgick.oregonlive.com/home/olive-media/width620/img/oregonian/photo/2014/11/28/16448702-mmmain.jpg

As thousands gathered to make their voices heard during a rally earlier this week, one officer and a young man paused to hear each other out.

This image, shot by freelance photographer Johnny Nguyen, shows Portland Police Sgt. Bret Barnum hugging 12-year-old Devonte Hart during the Ferguson demonstration in Portland on Nov. 25, 2014.

According to Sgt. Barnum, the interaction took place at the beginning of the rally. With emotions running high as speakers were addressing the crowd, he noticed a young man with tears in his eyes holding a "Free Hugs" sign among a group of people.

Sgt. Barnum motioned him over and the two started talking about the demonstration, school, art and life. As the conversation ended, Sgt. Barnum pointed to his sign and asked, "Do I get one of those?" The moment following his question was captured in the photo above, which shows Devonte's eyes welling up with tears once again as he embraces the officer.

Devonte, it turns out, has a life story that's almost as big as his heart.

His parents, Sarah and Jennifer Hart, shared more of Devonte's story in a Facebook posting.

After the exchange, Devonte rejoined his family and friends participating in the rally and Sgt. Barnum, a 21-year-veteran, went back about his duties.

[Anjew]

Damn I am happy that I am not living in North America and having to put up with the constant bombardment of this bull shit. Even following up with the stuff happening on CNN.com is too much. This whole situation is out of control, the parents of Michael Brown were on Nancy Grace and Nancy was actually crying along with the parents. Seriously what crock of shit is that.

The parents actually went to the UN to speak about this case. How absurd is that.

Nancy Grace cried over Trayvon Martin death as well... its a load of shit.

[7seven]

Reference for the vid?

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/26/justice/cleveland-police-shooting/

Video is in the CNN story.

One of the officers -- the one in the passenger seat -- told Tamir three times to "show your hands," Tomba told reporters.
"(The officer's) door was open as they pulled up," Tomba said. "He yelled three times as they pulled up."



Not sure what kind of stupid this kid was brandishing a pellet gun that a lot of people might mistake for a real firearm in public and pointing it at people. Just a bad situation all around, the kid was likely shocked when the officers rolled up to him quickly and yelling and unfortunately the kid might have reached his hand for or towards the pellet gun.

[Durrann]

http:// http://www.revscene.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=23089&stc=1&d=1417308224

The" white police officer"

[nabs]

^^
Did they really have to say "white"? with all this race issues going on surrounding this I think its best if news outlets tried to stay as neutral as possible.

In other news, take this with a grain of salt as I read it on a link on facebook, on how the KKK was planning a protest in Ferguson in support of the officer. Apparently they have full police escort and protection?

[tegra7]

lol
Ferguson Protesters Steal Train - YouTube

[Tegra_Devil]

Video of Cleveland police shooting of boy released - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/26/justice/cleveland-police-shooting/)

Video is in the CNN story.



Not sure what kind of stupid this kid was brandishing a pellet gun that a lot of people might mistake for a real firearm in public and pointing it at people. Just a bad situation all around, the kid was likely shocked when the officers rolled up to him quickly and yelling and unfortunately the kid might have reached his hand for or towards the pellet gun.


kid was an idiot pointing that shit at people...not surprised he got shot...i dont blame the police for what happened and how it was played out. that being said still a tragic event for both sides

[Anjew]

kid was an idiot pointing that shit at people...not surprised he got shot...i dont blame the police for what happened and how it was played out. that being said still a tragic event for both sides

yup... if you see the video, he was pointing it at people walking by aiming at them with intent to shoot. Its just a bb gun, he knows that but the people walking by dont. What kind of sick kid feeds off that? I sympathize with the parents for losing a son but i cant say i feel much sympathy for the kid. He didnt deserve to die but he sure was asking for it.

[Bouncing Bettys]

The man who called the police about the boy said multiple times he thought the gun could be fake or doubted it was real so why was that information not given to the officer on scene or why did he ignore it altogether?

[westopher]

If a cop goes to a scene where someone points a gun at him or others do you really think he wants to wait to find out if it's real? You get shot ONCE there is a pretty reasonable chance your life will never be the same again, if you even live.

[Bouncing Bettys]

If a cop, without prior knowledge, spots someone with what appears to be a real gun, maybe. If he is called to respond to a scene with a report of a possibly fake/toy gun, I expect him not to shoot and kill a child within seconds of arrival.

[Soundy]

The man who called the police about the boy said multiple times he thought the gun could be fake or doubted it was real so why was that information not given to the officer on scene or why did he ignore it altogether?

You have probably multiple people calling the police about some kid wandering the streets pointing a gun randomly, and they're expected to just accept and operate on ONE person's observation that it MAY not be a real gun?

[Special K]

The caller says the gun is fake is his opinion. From the CNN video (one side of the story) the dispatcher should have alerted the officer.

Notwithstanding that fake/real gun information, I'd rather the officer not risk his life with a fake/real gun pointing at him and defeat the threat (whether it's a 12 yr old or 30 yr old).

Hindsight is 20/20.

[RRxtar]

Regarding the Ferguson officer resigning, that is absolutely the best choice he could have made aside from transfering.

You can bet this is going to haunt him everytime he tries to do his job in that community. Any time he has to arrest a black person, you can bet they are going to start screaming "Dats dat nigga dat killed dat nigga!"

[Bouncing Bettys]

Justice Scalia?s Grand Jury Rant Highlights Everything Wrong With Ferguson - YouTube