View Full Version
:
Langley becoming "New Money" Mecca?
NotRevSeen
11-20-2014, 01:49 PM
In the past year Langley has suddenly exploded with many new luxury dealerships ranging from BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche. Are the rich starting to migrate out of the GVR to Fraser Valley? I know select White Rock neighborhoods are extremely expensive, but would they travel to Langley to buy their vehicles? Who are these dealerships catering towards?
Can anyone living in Langley or the surrounding area shed some light on why they are suddenly popping up there. Which area's of Langley are considered "White Collar"?
dhari
11-20-2014, 01:58 PM
Is "rich" defined as being able to buy an Audi,BMW, Merc or Porsche?
melloman
11-20-2014, 02:02 PM
The GVRD is densifying. If you want more land, bigger property, at a cheaper rate you move East.
Dealerships are probably thinking if they buy the property now, build now, they will set themselves up for victory. Considering tons of new families are all starting up in Langley, I'm sure they'd like to have nice vehicles.
Serious response, to a not-so-sure if troll post
Dragon-88
11-20-2014, 02:20 PM
Is "rich" defined as being able to lease an Audi,BMW, Merc or Porsche?
Fixed...
hchang
11-20-2014, 02:25 PM
Its cause there's so much new residents coming in and buying in the city. People keep pushing out further into the Valley. It's the smart thing to do IMO you flip a huge profit and can get a detachment house for much less, and bank the rest
I actually really like Langley, if you ever been to Walnut Grove it's a really nice area, and still easily accessible to everywhere via highway one. It's like 20-30 mins to get from 200 st to Vancouver
Walnut Grove where the old Albion Ferry used to be reminds me of Steveston Village. Plan to move out there to raise kids, to avoid the bullshit big city mentality/lifestyle
Some of the business from the "luxury" dealerships might be coming from Abbotsford too
LightKeeper
11-20-2014, 02:33 PM
Its cause there's so much new residents coming in and buying in the city. People keep pushing out further into the Valley. It's the smart thing to do IMO you flip a huge profit and can get a detachment house for much less, and bank the rest
I actually really like Langley, if you ever been to Walnut Grove it's a really nice area, and still easily accessible to everywhere via highway one. It's like 20-30 mins to get from 200 st to Vancouver
Walnut Grove where the old Albion Ferry used to be reminds me of Steveston Village. Plan to move out there to raise kids, to avoid the bullshit big city mentality
Some of the business from the "luxury" dealerships might be coming from Abbotsford too
Not really so during rush hours. .
It'll probably pushed to an hour during that time.
Two hours drive a day to and fro if someone works in Vancouver.
So pretty much prepare a life in Langley if you wanna move there. Work etc.
MindBomber
11-20-2014, 02:39 PM
Walnut Grove where the old Albion Ferry used to be reminds me of Steveston Village. Plan to move out there to raise kids, to avoid the bullshit big city mentality/lifestyle
The area surrounding the old Albion Ferry is Fort Langley, though they're adjacent to one another the atmosphere is very different in comparison to Walnut Grove
hchang
11-20-2014, 02:46 PM
The area surrounding the old Albion Ferry is Fort Langley, though they're adjacent to one another the atmosphere is very different in comparison to Walnut Grove
Thanks for the clarification
You also just reminded me of the Fort Langley golf course, man is it gorgeous out there
Hondaracer
11-20-2014, 04:43 PM
Not really so during rush hours. .
It'll probably pushed to an hour during that time.
Two hours drive a day to and fro if someone works in Vancouver.
So pretty much prepare a life in Langley if you wanna move there. Work etc.
Can consistently get from 160th and 104 to first and boundry in less than 15 minutes, any time between 430-530.
Add another 10 minutes max to get there from 200th street.
I'd say the boom in dealerships is simply due to proximity. Outside of Vancouver and Richmond there are no higher end dealers in the valley, even at the automall. So langley seems like a central area to service Surrey, Langley, and further out in the Valley.
fliptuner
11-20-2014, 04:49 PM
Businesses move where the traffic is. Simple.
kkthind
11-20-2014, 05:11 PM
RS group buy for land anyone :troll:
bomiheko
11-20-2014, 05:34 PM
Langley is where the next boom gonna be, buy up the property before they skyrocket!
tiger_handheld
11-20-2014, 05:40 PM
Langley has an affluent Caucasian community made up mainly of self employed individuals. They are not the $30,000 millionaires you see in yaletown / coal harbor.
flagella
11-20-2014, 05:59 PM
lol, I have never associated owning a BMW/Merc/Audi with being rich. I know too many poor fucks driving those.
jinxcrusader
11-20-2014, 06:37 PM
Fort Langley area is wonderful. Really reminds me of Steveston
multicartual
11-20-2014, 06:56 PM
Lived in Langley for a year
>barf<
Barely urbanized hillbillies, single moms, and those without a shred of culture or creativity
Roach
11-20-2014, 07:05 PM
These stores are meant to service not only Langley, but all regions south of the Fraser including white rock, Surrey, Langley, Abbotsford & chilliwack.
Kev
Harvey Specter
11-20-2014, 07:49 PM
The think the main reason for the shift out to Langley is land.
geeknerd
11-20-2014, 07:54 PM
I've only visited Langley a few times but I've always thought its where the rich people go due to the huge houses I see.
SpeedStars
11-20-2014, 10:39 PM
I went out to Langley last weekend, and I gotta say...the houses there are amazing compared to what you see in Vancouver especially considering they're comaprably priced...also....the girls out there....:notbad:
bcrdukes
11-20-2014, 10:44 PM
Off topic but did anyone notice the OP's username change from "RevSeen" to "NotRevSeen" ?
:suspicious:
multicartual
11-21-2014, 12:27 AM
I went out to Langley last weekend, and I gotta say...the houses there are amazing compared to what you see in Vancouver especially considering they're priced...also....the girls out there....:notbad:
A polished turd even has a shine
NotRevSeen
11-21-2014, 04:44 AM
Langley has an affluent Caucasian community made up mainly of self employed individuals. They are not the $30,000 millionaires you see in yaletown / coal harbor.
I guess it's a central hub for buyers in the Fraser Valley. I'm just curious what kind of projected sales figures these dealerships will have by year's end.
I know most of the high end dealerships in the GVR cater towards the Chinese clientele. I'm legit intrigued how these dealerships will fare in terms of sales/buyers...
Qmx323
11-21-2014, 05:20 AM
lol, I have never associated owning a BMW/Merc/Audi with being rich. I know too many poor fucks driving those.
lol too true
look at their dash and have 7 warning lights on, tires balding
"oh dude i just havent... gotten around to going to the dealer."
punkwax
11-21-2014, 05:29 AM
When will RS learn that Chinese Vancouverites aren't the only people with money for cars?
PLENTY money on the other side of the Fraser River.
bcrdukes
11-21-2014, 07:09 AM
When will RS learn that Chinese Vancouverites aren't the only people with money for cars?
PLENTY money on the other side of the Fraser River.
Nothing exists beyond the realms of Richmond for a majority of the demographic on Revscene.
Hondaracer
11-21-2014, 07:40 AM
Lol some of you don't get out very much..
Z3guy
11-21-2014, 07:42 AM
this is pretty simple, mainland china is buying up Vancouver. All the rich white people are cashing out and buying big properties in Langley/Surrey. This really isn't much different when the HK Chinese bought up Richmond and pushed all the white people out to Ladner. Richmond used to be a white enclave.
white rocket
11-21-2014, 09:00 AM
This really isn't much different when the HK Chinese bought up Richmond and pushed all the white people out to Ladner. Richmond used to be a white enclave.
:whistle: ha!
You`re bang on though. I have a bunch of clients in the Valley area with high end cars and it`s a PITA to have them towed into Vancouver every time they need servicing. Having the higher end manufacturers out that way just makes sense as there is a ton of wealth out that way.
bcrdukes
11-21-2014, 09:33 AM
The demographic in the Fraser Valley is out there.
Let's consider this:
Beyond the typical Surrey stereotype where it's all Indians and whatnot, there is also a large group of Whites living out in nicer parts of Surrey, Langley, Abbotsford and the like. Yes, I said White people, not Chinese, Taiwanese, Koreans and what have you.
These people are the conservative type, also known as WASPs - White Anglo-Saxon Protestents (throw in some Roman Catholics too.) These people have businesses beyond bubble tea shops, slave labour sweat shops, and factories pumping out iPhones and televisions. They are a growing class of people in itself and if any of you know how the City of Langley works, they abide to strict conservative social practices.
The city is growing at a rapid rate with a lot of development and a city hall run by conservative folks who abide by ancient laws and rules. And whether these laws and rules are right or wrong is another discussion in itself. Their property taxes are astronomical due to the rate of development in the city so there is a trade-off when it comes to purchasing property, but hey, you get the newer, neater of everything from roads, libraries, schools, community centres and recreational facilities. This is what makes Langley so attractive to many younger families, not exclusive to whites only.
More likely than not, I am missing a lot of facts, but they can be found on Langley's city hall website. Take a look at their numbers and facts/figures in addition to what you can find from their chamber of commerce. The Fraser Valley is an untapped market for luxury marques, so not every person out there is limited to Dodge Rams, Ford F150s and Toyota Tundras.
vo_hantu
11-21-2014, 09:55 AM
Some really great points, but I strongly agree with what White Rocket mentioned.
Kind of off-topic but since we are discussing BMW, Merc, Audi I thought I would chime in.
I was in the market for a new vehicle (BMW, Merc, or Audi) and decided to visit most of the dealerships without crossing a bridge with the exception to Knight Street bridge. It was mainly for convenience. Over 75% of the dealerships did not help or care to talk to me unless I approached and ask for help. I was okay with that, but when I did receive help it was half-ass'd and uninterested. I thought maybe I did not fit the "stereotype" or "clientele" which yields them their business, all good...time is money.
Anyway, I was fed up with it and decided to venture to Langley and I was treated much better which to me is better than saving a few hundred here and there. I don't know if it was because they are new dealerships and thirsty for clients, but every dealership I went to was very accommodating. Ended up picking my BMW last month and received a great experience and did not feel out of place.
BoostedBB6
11-21-2014, 09:59 AM
LMAO.......that is all.
originalhypa
11-21-2014, 10:10 AM
Lived in Langley for a year
>barf<
Barely urbanized hillbillies, single moms, and those without a shred of culture or creativity
Lol, culture.
This is hilarious coming from a former smut peddlar, a failed writer, and self proclaimed breeding ground for sexually transmitted disease. Just because you had a hard time finding good blow and hookers in Langley, doesnt make it a hillbilly enclave.
But keep trying to decieve yourself and others into thinking that you have the answers.
kthxbye.
:smug:
Presto
11-21-2014, 10:19 AM
^^^
Multicartual posts are how I my get daily nutrition of irony. Good thing I can't OD on that.
Lomac
11-21-2014, 10:33 AM
Having grown up and lived in Langley for most of my life, I can confirm that there is a huge population of wealthy residents in and around it. South Langley (Brookswood and beyond right up to the border) as well as many residents on the Aldergrove and White Rock border is quite rich. The older parts of Fort Langley as well. As Dukes said (I think?), most are self-made business owners. Don't kid yourselves by thinking that money stops at the Richmond/Delta border, as that is so far from the truth, it's funny. No, they tend not to be as flashy as residents of other cities, but that's what I prefer. While you'll see the odd exotic driving down 200th, most of these people usually buy what they need and nothing more (think Old Money buying long lasting cars so they can stay being rich, rather than wasting money on buying a new car every year).
Hondaracer
11-21-2014, 12:21 PM
From the freeway to brookswood Langley is pretty dirtball, would never live in downtown Langley or around 56th/fraser highway
MindBomber
11-21-2014, 12:24 PM
That area is getting better but it definitely needs the type of attention that Surrey has shown in Whalley. Unfortunately, Langley City's leadership isn't strong and never has been so I don't expect to see any real improvement..
Tone Loc
11-21-2014, 01:33 PM
this is pretty simple, mainland china is buying up Vancouver. All the rich white people are cashing out and buying big properties in Langley/Surrey. This really isn't much different when the HK Chinese bought up Richmond and pushed all the white people out to Ladner. Richmond used to be a white enclave.
This. All the poor white people like Kelly Starchuk go on the news and bitch about "Chinese signs" and shit... meanwhile all the rich white people just sell their houses (usually for tons more than they paid), enjoy their gains and go elsewhere. I have a couple friends and family friends who have done exactly that. It's not exactly a race thing, as I am Asian and they obviously associate with me, but it's more of feeling like a foreigner in your own area. Not to mention the average wealthy white folk (Yaletown new-money excluded) are a lot more modest with wealth. I.e., buying a Honda Accord instead of a BMW for a daily driver because maintenance/repair costs are low and they can focus on buying fun stuff like cottages, boats, vacations... the whole "exotic" thing doesn't appeal to them as much I guess.
Manic!
11-21-2014, 02:05 PM
Langley also has the only Chuck E Cheese in BC and a pretty good Philly cheese steak place beside it.
NotRevSeen
11-21-2014, 02:49 PM
Off topic but did anyone notice the OP's username change from "RevSeen" to "NotRevSeen" ?
:suspicious:
Trademark Infringement
:moderated:
Z3guy
11-21-2014, 03:24 PM
Lol, culture.
This is hilarious coming from a former smut peddlar, a failed writer, and self proclaimed breeding ground for sexually transmitted disease. Just because you had a hard time finding good blow and hookers in Langley, doesnt make it a hillbilly enclave.
But keep trying to decieve yourself and others into thinking that you have the answers.
kthxbye.
:smug:
Wow, a little sensitive? I wonder where you live lol!
:suspicious:
Richmond used to be a white enclave.
Still is. I see plenty of these
:troll:
http://www.automotiveaddicts.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/2012-buick-enclave.jpg
That said, muscle car season in Langley / Fraser Valley :sweetjesus:
Much rather see a custom steel body 34 Ford 5 window Hot Rod over another F430.
bcrdukes
11-21-2014, 03:35 PM
Wow, a little sensitive? I wonder where you live lol!
LOL!
Wait until he replies. :whistle:
Z3guy
11-21-2014, 03:39 PM
This. All the poor white people like Kelly Starchuk go on the news and bitch about "Chinese signs" and shit... meanwhile all the rich white people just sell their houses (usually for tons more than they paid), enjoy their gains and go elsewhere. I have a couple friends and family friends who have done exactly that. It's not exactly a race thing, as I am Asian and they obviously associate with me, but it's more of feeling like a foreigner in your own area. Not to mention the average wealthy white folk (Yaletown new-money excluded) are a lot more modest with wealth. I.e., buying a Honda Accord instead of a BMW for a daily driver because maintenance/repair costs are low and they can focus on buying fun stuff like cottages, boats, vacations... the whole "exotic" thing doesn't appeal to them as much I guess.
I agree paranoia r34. All the people who have sold their van/Richmond home in the last 10yrs has made tons of cake. I don't feel too bad for the people who decided to move on. However, I was driving around the southwest side streets (adera and angus) around 41st and Granville recently and noticed all the gaudy led lite French style chateaus, they are so cheesy and out of place in the Neighbourhood. You could literally figure out where the Caucasian people lived vs the China Chinese lol!
From my experiences. most affluent Caucasian people in van buy resort property in whistler and pt Roberts, memberships to the arbutus club, and artwork, vs nouveau rich Asians who like to flaunt their wealth with cars, clothes, watches, and handbags
:suspicious:
Still is. I see plenty of these
Why Chinese Buyers Love Buick - Business Insider (http://www.businessinsider.com/why-chinese-buyers-love-buick-2013-4)
:concentrate:
acurael
11-21-2014, 05:15 PM
As others have said it will serve not only Langley, but surrey, white rock, even abbotsford.
It just makes sense. People in these areas have to travel to richmond or vancouver to service their vehicles which is a pain - traffic/bridges/tolls. Langley is the perfect spot. Started off with the BMW dealership, now others are opening.
acurael
11-21-2014, 05:20 PM
Some really great points, but I strongly agree with what White Rocket mentioned.
Kind of off-topic but since we are discussing BMW, Merc, Audi I thought I would chime in.
I was in the market for a new vehicle (BMW, Merc, or Audi) and decided to visit most of the dealerships without crossing a bridge with the exception to Knight Street bridge. It was mainly for convenience. Over 75% of the dealerships did not help or care to talk to me unless I approached and ask for help. I was okay with that, but when I did receive help it was half-ass'd and uninterested. I thought maybe I did not fit the "stereotype" or "clientele" which yields them their business, all good...time is money.
Anyway, I was fed up with it and decided to venture to Langley and I was treated much better which to me is better than saving a few hundred here and there. I don't know if it was because they are new dealerships and thirsty for clients, but every dealership I went to was very accommodating. Ended up picking my BMW last month and received a great experience and did not feel out of place.
so true. Nothing worse then going to the Richmond Automall or dealerships in richmond. Most of those dealerships esp BMW and Mercedes - salespeople were not helpful at all. Why deal with someone like me when they can easily sell to the typical richmond buyer. Quick sale, most expensive model etc. Some of the sales people lack basic english.
MR_BIGGS
11-21-2014, 05:27 PM
Porsche deslership that opened up in Langley recently has sold signs on so many of their showcase cars. My gf's dad bought a macan and he lives in south Surrey. I noticed the neighbourhoods there are quite diverse (morgan heights area) Chinese, Euro, indian. There is a private school there as well so likely a reason for the diversity.
SkunkWorks
11-21-2014, 10:46 PM
Southridge chicks.
:notbad:
Harvey Specter
11-21-2014, 11:30 PM
The most affluent individuals with liquid wealth in the lower Mainland still live in the Point Grey area and West Vancouver. New up and coming areas outside of the city might be nice and some what expensive but they still can't compare and personally I can never see areas of Surrey/Langley other other suburbs outside of the city become next the next enclaves for the ultra wealthy.
multicartual
11-22-2014, 12:26 AM
LOL!
Wait until he replies. :whistle:
:noyoudidnt:
I'm happy with my life so it allows me to have a thick skin. People seem to think that if you put out your first book and it doesn't blow up that you're somehow a "failed" writer. You fail when you quit your creative hobbies after people shit on them! Hahaha!
Taking some online abuse from the bridge and tunnel crowd is simply par for the course with the suburban folk. They tend to dislike individualism and self-expression, hence the preference of big box stores over boutiques. Man if a store doesn't have warm lighting and a lingering scent of sage I can't even shop! Another thing, I don't even think they have edison bulbs out there or even a decent hipster mixologist! Jealousy, obviously.
We here in Vancouver have the world-renown Mayor Moonbeam! Soon he will make the broadway corridor a rapid conveyor-belt of students to UBC, pumping out the world's finest baristas and trust fund babies with a paper to wave around. It goes without saying but I have to mention it; our DTES crackheads have much more class than Whalley crackheads. In Vancouver, I get to ride the seawall daily, feeling the sun on my face and a pleasant stone from the bong I just toked from. Later in my day I can enjoy walking everywhere I need to go, and the best part about getting around in Vancouver?
I ain't Treo's bitch!
:awwyeah:
originalhypa
11-22-2014, 09:07 AM
:woot2:
Z3guy
11-22-2014, 09:34 AM
you are hilarious orginahypa! that was a epic rant! I didn't know you cared so much for me? you gotta relax, all this from a simple joke! haha! you can throw stones but no one else can? I post my cars on RS because this is a car forum right? I glad you own lots of property and have traveled, that is awesome, you gotta take it easy...
multicartual
11-22-2014, 09:56 AM
I'll admit, people like me need people like you. We need you to rent our apartments and pay our mortgages down.
Like you're somehow better at life because you own things.
I'd hate me too if I lived in Langley and knew some renting schlep with a crap book could have so much fun living downtown and loving life!!!
:toot:
multicartual
11-22-2014, 10:20 AM
Some people get all pissed and/or jealous when people bring up the topic of owning VS renting. I remember socializing outside of my usual crowd last year, one asian hottie who kept loudly dropping that she'd never date a "renter" was at the party with a friend of mine. He rents, I rent. Well he got all bent out of shape that she called him a renter and left the party with a dramatic exit.
http://i.imgur.com/JMGgJlR.gif
I ended up banging her because that shit is pretty meaningless, it is how you live your life that really matters, not the shit you own.
http://i.imgur.com/o2zlZXa.jpg
Hypa I may end up being Treo's bitch today if I hit the Pick-A-Part and check out if they have any PT Cruiser 2.4 Turbo engines for sale. Apparently they're like $300 U-pull, and engine mounts are available on Ebay to put it in the 2200 lbs Rampage. Your Langley hick ass is going to be so jealous of my Doge Rampage.
http://i.imgur.com/7iTHElA.png
Gucci Mane
11-22-2014, 11:00 AM
wtf is going on in here..
:facepalm:
badboy
11-22-2014, 11:06 AM
^Van boys vs. Valley boys. This kind of conflict where people living in the city look down on suburban people is common in every city.
BoostedBB6
11-22-2014, 11:10 AM
5 Year Old Valley Boys
"My dad could beat up your dad"
5 Year Old Van Boys
"My dad could sue your dad"
multicartual
11-22-2014, 11:25 AM
I challenge Hypa to a seawall race.
Rules:
1. One giant bong toke must be taken prior to the ride
2. Single speed or fixie bicycles only
3. Start and finish is the Blarneystone in Gastown, 14k route
Then I will come out and do whatever sport is available in Langley, perhaps buggy races or a rowdy match of horseshoes
originalhypa
11-22-2014, 12:19 PM
Ah, that felt good. The thing about getting older is that once you let it all out, you can then move on with life.
:hotbaby:
The great thing about being in the valley is that you can visit the city, then get the hell out of there once your business is done. Hitting a hockey or football game, then grabbing some dinner or a movie afterwords is a lot of fun. But like I said, it's good to be able to sleep without hearing sirens or cars all night. It's nice to get out of the busy lifestyle to get back to what one truly enjoys. For most in the area, it's about affordability and a stable upbringing for their kids. For others, it's a place to turn your million bucks into a nice piece of property where it takes an hour and a half to mow your lawn. Twice a week. And you fucking love it.
I do have a single speed. It is red with whitewall tires. Maybe the city and valley folk aren't that much different after all.
As for the Rampage.........
That's a pretty cool choice of vehicle. I wouldn't have been able to call that one.
:fuckyea:
originalhypa
11-22-2014, 12:21 PM
you are hilarious orginahypa! that was a epic rant! I didn't know you cared so much for me? you gotta relax, all this from a simple joke! haha! you can throw stones but no one else can? I post my cars on RS because this is a car forum right? I glad you own lots of property and have traveled, that is awesome, you gotta take it easy...
It's been a long time since I've ranted. Be happy that I included you in it. 9,998 others weren't so lucky!
Free Shark Tank!!1!!
twitchyzero
11-22-2014, 01:51 PM
am i the only one that doesn't see anything wrong with that Z3? More body kits than I would've liked but i'd imagine it's considered nicely modified in the yesteryear.
hypa's past cars...i think i like the Z3 better than his candy CF hood :spin:
http://www.revscene.net/forums/679359-revscene-originals-what-did-you-drive-then-now-5.html#post8140972
NotRevSeen
11-22-2014, 02:08 PM
Looks like I opened Pandora's Box. :crazy2:
Didn't want this to wind up being a FV vs GVR debate.
I rent in Kits and even I've come to the realization that I will have to move to the 'burbs' if I plan to own a home.
bcrdukes
11-22-2014, 02:09 PM
That's because you are NotRevSeen.
multicartual
11-22-2014, 04:06 PM
Looks like I opened Pandora's Box. :crazy2:
Didn't want this to wind up being a FV vs GVR debate.
I rent in Kits and even I've come to the realization that I will have to move to the 'burbs' if I plan to own a home.
That is a bad mindset to have, think of a business you could create or something you're good at that you can generate a following or a market for. Rent here while working on your entrepreneurial projects and enjoy the lifestyle!
Z3guy
11-22-2014, 04:15 PM
am i the only one that doesn't see anything wrong with that Z3? More body kits than I would've liked but i'd imagine it's considered nicely modified in the yesteryear.
hypa's past cars...i think i like the Z3 better than his candy CF hood :spin:
http://www.revscene.net/forums/679359-revscene-originals-what-did-you-drive-then-now-5.html#post8140972
Thxs man! I kinda cringe now when I look at pics of my beloved z3. Lol! I guess it would be the equivalent of bigs tar jeans in the day. Super trendy in the day, but faded fast. In the 98-2005 era, veil side body kits were all the rage. Veilside was the company that started the crazy bodykit trend. Today's Veilside is rocket bunny, rwb, liberty walk, etc. I remember seeing my first Veilside supra and rx7 and fell in love. I know allot people hate the crazy kits, and that's Kool, but I love them when I was a kid. My z3 was more than a bodykit, it was supercharged and alcohol injected. Full chassis strengthening kit, coilovers, brakes, roll age etc. it was even used in a toyo tires poster and magazine campaign
vBulletin® v3.8.11, Copyright ©2000-2026, vBulletin Solutions Inc.