[sebTeggy]

What do you guys think?

I personally think there is a lot more engineering, quality control and assurance in engineered pipelines over pill/drugged-up truck drivers.

It's going to go from A-B anyways, this is a safer (but slightly disruptive) way

What do you guys think? I'm an industry guy and I believe that things like this need to happen to strengthen the economy.

And those protesters were doing a good job until they started chaining themselves and 'chasing' workers telling them to get 'real jobs'..... Seriously?

[jasonturbo]

Pipelines is good.

[subordinate]

agreed. has to happen and prob safer.

[Hondaracer]

There's already hundreds of pipelines running through every neighborhood carrying jet fuel and oil.

Don't want a pipeline? Then I don't want to pay for social housing.

[adambomb]

Drill baby, Drill. :rant

[murd0c]

If it wasn't this they would be complaining about something else.. They people are a waste of skin and don't contribute to society at all.. Most of them don't work and all they do is bitch about life when they are not willing to make life better for themselves.

The pipeline is a great thing and I'm happy they are going a head with it..

[sebTeggy]

Surprised at the responses so far, I'm glad everyone is on board.

Are there no hippies on revscene?

[Mining]

Yes to pipelines. Though I may be biased due to the fact that I work in the industry...

[underscore]

What people need to realize is that they have two options:

1) Scream like idiots trying to stop a project that is going to happen whether they like it or not, and therefore have zero input into the design process.
2) Accept that the project is going to go forward and work with the developers to ensure that the pipeline is built properly and that legitimate concerns are addressed.

[SumAznGuy]

Haven't been following the news lately, but what is their concerns against the pipeline?

I "think" I am for it.

[Spoon]

Safe to say most people are for it because we just love that dirty oil money. Until it leaks in some way shape and form anyways. :troll:

[jaguar604]

The oil must flow

[Mr.HappySilp]

The cities that the Pipeline cross needs to have a bigger piece of the pie. Say 35% of total revenue from the pipeline goes towards all the cities. That's fair.

[Manic!]

The cities that the Pipeline cross needs to have a bigger piece of the pie. Say 35% of total revenue from the pipeline goes towards all the cities. That's fair.

How is that fair? are you talking gross or net? and are cities going to take 35% responsibility if something happens?

[nma]

The cities that the Pipeline cross needs to have a bigger piece of the pie. Say 35% of total revenue from the pipeline goes towards all the cities. That's fair.

are you just pulling numbers out of a hat or do you have some legitimate information?

[Tone Loc]

There will always be pipelines, even now I am willing to bet there is one less than 50 feet away from you that carries natural gas to your home/work/school. A lot of these protesters are just misinformed, and now they are breaking a court order and crying "police abuse" when the RCMP is only trying to do their job.

It's ridiculous, if it's not a pipeline I guarantee these same people will be somewhere else trying to make a nuisance of themselves and making it hard for low-paid workers (i.e., the people actually on the ground doing survey work, construction, etc.) to do the job that they were told to do. How would you like it if some neckbeard barged into your work place and made it impossible for you to work in peace, all the while they are complaining about stuff that is way over your head in terms of pay grade, etc.? Just doesn't make sense lol.

[underscore]

^ they're the equivalent of the people who bitch at the guy working the counter at McDonalds when prices go up. If they really, truly wanted to protest with some level of intelligence they'd be outside the main office of the company developing the pipeline.

[Great68]

There is risk in EVERY method to convey oil/gas. Accidents can/will happen.

Pipelines in my opinion are the safest. They can be monitored and controlled much more effectively than trucks & trains.

[sebTeggy]

What people need to realize is that they have two options:

1) Scream like idiots trying to stop a project that is going to happen whether they like it or not, and therefore have zero input into the design process.
2) Accept that the project is going to go forward and work with the developers to ensure that the pipeline is built properly and that legitimate concerns are addressed.

They actually have three options, take a little trip to the 'anti fracking' rally

[Euro7r]

Someone tell those useless protestors to not eat, pee or shit because that's going to harm our climate by using resources and creating waste.

[7seven]

100% on board for twinning the pipeline and adding more. I'm just glad the RCMP finally started arresting the protesters.

[jasonturbo]

The cities that the Pipeline cross needs to have a bigger piece of the pie. Say 35% of total revenue from the pipeline goes towards all the cities. That's fair.

Hmmmm...

Pipelines typically only "cross" cities in the following situations;
- Existing shared ROW crosses through city, more often than not this is because the shared ROW was in place long before the area was developed
- There is no practical alternative route

Major reasons we do not cross cities in our design include
- Significantly higher consequence of failure in the event of a rupture/leak
- Higher material costs as a result of CSA Z662 dwelling concentration categories (There is a higher safety factor in highly populated areas that require pipe which either has a higher wall thickness or a higher SMYS)
- Higher construction costs and significant schedule impacts associated with building in developed areas
- Significant schedule and cost impacts related to a large number of landowner agreements
- Limited space for future development, expansion, or maintenance
- And about a million other reasons...

More often than not, in my experience, the ROW's that tend to cross the most densely populated areas are those which were installed by a Public Institution (IE: Line 9 which was initially commissioned by the NEB, later purchased by Enbridge). No pipeline owner/operator wants to go anywhere near a heavily populated area.

Now having said all that, imagine if a pipeline did cross major cities, if every one of those cities had a royalty of even 5% there would be no incentive for a pipeline company to commission the line.

Are we going to start making telecom companies or power companies pay royalties to municipalities for their transmission lines or radio waves? That would be great… so they can pass the costs along to the consumer, yay more public income to mismanage!

The pipeline does benefit people in nearby communities, in many small towns with limited industry it's basically the dream to get on with the pipeline company in operations or maintenance etc.

I wrote this message from my desk on the 11th floor of an office tower for one of the biggest pipeline companies in the world, we are not evil, we work very hard to do everything right and to protect people and the environment. The people that work here are normal people, they also don't want a pipeline to explode behind their house etc. There is always going to be some degree or risk, but I can tell you that we eliminate every single risk we possibly can and no comprimise in safety or quality is ever made in the interest of saving money - ever.

At this point I will bring up the most significant risk pipelines operators face - external factors out of our control. A good example of this would be what happened with the Burnaby Kinder Morgan line strike. In this case a contractor was hired to work on a sewer line in close proximity to the crude pipeline, shortly after the work begin the crude line was ruptured by a excavator being operated by Cusano Contracting.

Cusano Contracting claimed that Kinder Morgan did not mark the line correctly. Kinder Morgan is an experienced pipeline company with a near-perfect track record of operating their pipelines. Cusano Contracting is/was a very small and seemingly inexperience construction contractor selected by the City of Burnaby to perform this work based on the fact that they were the lower bidder. "The contractors misjudged the pipeline by about three meters", city spokeswoman Susan Rae said. Just from the most basic rules of ground disturbance they never should have had an excavator that close to an existing line - this is why god invented the shovel, detail bucket, jackhammer, and Hydrovac truck.

Yet somehow people take a story like this, and from it, assert that pipelines are not safe. I would argue that incompetent construction contractors are not safe.

I find most people in BC to be very reasonable and objective when it comes to pipelines, there are only a small number of anti-fossil fuel types who will only be satisfied when the whole world runs on green energy.. meanwhile these people continue to suck back resources at an alarming rate lol. #hypocrites

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

pro pipeline.

the reason it goes through is because people actually want it.

[MindBomber]

The safety of pipelines is the general consensus not only in pro-oil circles but in green circles, too, because considering protection of the environment to be a priority does not entail a lack of intelligence. The green opposition to pipelines generally surrounds the increasing of oil development their building implies or their being routed through ecologically sensitive regions. I'm generally in pro pipeline but when I'm not its not for the reasons being suggested here.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Hmmmm...

Pipelines typically only "cross" cities in the following situations;
- Existing shared ROW crosses through city, more often than not this is because the shared ROW was in place long before the area was developed
- There is no practical alternative route

Major reasons we do not cross cities in our design include
- Significantly higher consequence of failure in the event of a rupture/leak
- Higher material costs as a result of CSA Z662 dwelling concentration categories (There is a higher safety factor in highly populated areas that require pipe which either has a higher wall thickness or a higher SMYS)
- Higher construction costs and significant schedule impacts associated with building in developed areas
- Significant schedule and cost impacts related to a large number of landowner agreements
- Limited space for future development, expansion, or maintenance
- And about a million other reasons...

More often than not, in my experience, the ROW's that tend to cross the most densely populated areas are those which were installed by a Public Institution (IE: Line 9 which was initially commissioned by the NEB, later purchased by Enbridge). No pipeline owner/operator wants to go anywhere near a heavily populated area.

Now having said all that, imagine if a pipeline did cross major cities, if every one of those cities had a royalty of even 5% there would be no incentive for a pipeline company to commission the line.

Are we going to start making telecom companies or power companies pay royalties to municipalities for their transmission lines or radio waves? That would be great… so they can pass the costs along to the consumer, yay more public income to mismanage!

The pipeline does benefit people in nearby communities, in many small towns with limited industry it's basically the dream to get on with the pipeline company in operations or maintenance etc.

I wrote this message from my desk on the 11th floor of an office tower for one of the biggest pipeline companies in the world, we are not evil, we work very hard to do everything right and to protect people and the environment. The people that work here are normal people, they also don't want a pipeline to explode behind their house etc. There is always going to be some degree or risk, but I can tell you that we eliminate every single risk we possibly can and no comprimise in safety or quality is ever made in the interest of saving money - ever.

At this point I will bring up the most significant risk pipelines operators face - external factors out of our control. A good example of this would be what happened with the Burnaby Kinder Morgan line strike. In this case a contractor was hired to work on a sewer line in close proximity to the crude pipeline, shortly after the work begin the crude line was ruptured by a excavator being operated by Cusano Contracting.

Cusano Contracting claimed that Kinder Morgan did not mark the line correctly. Kinder Morgan is an experienced pipeline company with a near-perfect track record of operating their pipelines. Cusano Contracting is/was a very small and seemingly inexperience construction contractor selected by the City of Burnaby to perform this work based on the fact that they were the lower bidder. "The contractors misjudged the pipeline by about three meters", city spokeswoman Susan Rae said. Just from the most basic rules of ground disturbance they never should have had an excavator that close to an existing line - this is why god invented the shovel, detail bucket, jackhammer, and Hydrovac truck.

Yet somehow people take a story like this, and from it, assert that pipelines are not safe. I would argue that incompetent construction contractors are not safe.

I find most people in BC to be very reasonable and objective when it comes to pipelines, there are only a small number of anti-fossil fuel types who will only be satisfied when the whole world runs on green energy.. meanwhile these people continue to suck back resources at an alarming rate lol. #hypocrites

Still so what you are just trying to say is well since we are safe and create jobs therefore we aren't paying you guys a penny.

Sure maybe you guys are safest but there is a chance of an accident and when accidents occur who pays for the full cost of the clean up and all the environment clean up cost? I am sure hell know not any company in the world will cover the cost of clean up 100%. They can't because the environment damage is on going and that's when the city is hook for the bill. A bill that us tax payers are on the hook for. So why shouldn't the city take a cut from it because the risk is on their end.

[Mr.HappySilp]

How is that fair? are you talking gross or net? and are cities going to take 35% responsibility if something happens?

The cities don't have to take and risk if there is no pipeline. And who will cover the cost of the clean up. I am sure the city will have to pay for it maybe not the whole clean up but the city will have to pay for it. Look at all the oil spills accidents in the last 10 years. The city pays for the damage one way or another (they have to spend tax dollars to help clean up or there are huge environmental issue after the accidents which the city have to put with for the next decade). Why shouldn't we take as much as we can now and use it help pay for the clean up?

[hchang]

I'm pro as well

Either way it's gonna end up being twinned

[jasonturbo]

Still so what you are just trying to say is well since we are safe and create jobs therefore we aren't paying you guys a penny.

Sure maybe you guys are safest but there is a chance of an accident and when accidents occur who pays for the full cost of the clean up and all the environment clean up cost? I am sure hell know not any company in the world will cover the cost of clean up 100%. They can't because the environment damage is on going and that's when the city is hook for the bill. A bill that us tax payers are on the hook for. So why shouldn't the city take a cut from it because the risk is on their end.

Give one example where any Pipeline in Canada ruptured and the owner didn't cover all costs of the clean up?

Last I checked the 15M clean up in Burnaby was taken care of by Kinder Morgan... Though it probably should have been paid for by the contractor or the City of Burnabu since they ultimately caused the rupture...

Kinder Morgan ordered to pay $150,000 in Burnaby oil spill - News - Burnaby Now (http://www.burnabynow.com/news/kinder-morgan-ordered-to-pay-150-000-in-burnaby-oil-spill-1.410790)


Edit: Just saw your last post,... Do you know the difference between facts and opinions?

[MindBomber]

I don't understand the reasoning for Kinder Morgan paying for the clean up. In what way were they negligent?

[meme405]

I don't understand the reasoning for Kinder Morgan paying for the clean up. In what way were they negligent?

They pay because it's a figurative drop in the bucket. And it prevents the idiots that don't know shit from screaming foul.

I'm in the industry so I'm biased. But I'm pro pipeline. As stated earlier by others, it's gonna flow anyway, pipeline in the log run is likely a safer method.

Also anything about clean up costs and shit for land pipelines are completely ridiculous. Clean up costs are 100% covered by the responsible party. Believe me the government and their various facilities don't leave that shit to chance.

I'm on my phone but I can provide countless examples of companies covering environmental cleanup costs.

[jasonturbo]

I don't understand the reasoning for Kinder Morgan paying for the clean up. In what way were they negligent?

Two reasons

- NEB OPR-99: "32. (1) A company shall develop, implement and maintain an emergency management program that anticipates, prevents, manages and mitigates conditions during an emergency that could adversely affect property, the environment or the safety of workers or the public."

Ultimately the NEB holds the "company" aka the pipeline owner responsible for clean up. This however does not mean Kinder Morgan loses the right to sue the City of Burnaby or the contractor for damages.

- Imagine the damage to relationships with local landowners and the impact on sentiment if they refused to clean up the spill :s

[Mr.HappySilp]

Give one example where any Pipeline in Canada ruptured and the owner didn't cover all costs of the clean up?

Last I checked the 15M clean up in Burnaby was taken care of by Kinder Morgan... Though it probably should have been paid for by the contractor or the City of Burnabu since they ultimately caused the rupture...

Kinder Morgan ordered to pay $150,000 in Burnaby oil spill - News - Burnaby Now (http://www.burnabynow.com/news/kinder-morgan-ordered-to-pay-150-000-in-burnaby-oil-spill-1.410790)


Edit: Just saw your last post,... Do you know the difference between facts and opinions?

So they pay for the clean up. What about environment effect, or lost of animal lives or their homes being forever polluted now? How do you measure environment lost? You can't.

[jasonturbo]

So they pay for the clean up. What about environment effect, or lost of animal lives or their homes being forever polluted now? How do you measure environment lost? You can't.

You don't seem to understand the meaning of the term "clean up". It doesn't mean "pressure wash the cars and plants and call it a day". 15M in clean up costs means hauling away every last inch of contaminated soil to a processing facility.

If there was lingering environmental effects from the Burnaby spill it would be all over the news... I don't know what's worse, that you say these things or that people actually thank your post lol

[Manic!]

Still so what you are just trying to say is well since we are safe and create jobs therefore we aren't paying you guys a penny.

Sure maybe you guys are safest but there is a chance of an accident and when accidents occur who pays for the full cost of the clean up and all the environment clean up cost? I am sure hell know not any company in the world will cover the cost of clean up 100%. They can't because the environment damage is on going and that's when the city is hook for the bill. A bill that us tax payers are on the hook for. So why shouldn't the city take a cut from it because the risk is on their end.


Ever heard of insurance?

Pipeline companies required to have $1B cleanup funds - Politics - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/pipeline-companies-required-to-have-1b-cleanup-funds-1.1308467)

[Mining]

Mr Hapyslip is somewhat right. You can't fully measure environment lose to that extent and we certainly won't be able to "clean up" right away. It could take decades and by then it might have an affect on nearby plantlife and habitats depending on the extent of the spill/leak. It boils down to QC when it happens. This is a risk pipelines are taking that's for sure. So they make sure they have the controls in place to avoid or prevent from happening. You cannot 100% clean up a big loss of containment. This one the biggest con of the pipelines but is it worth the benefits we get from it? I think so.

There are too many assumptions being made in this thread

[sdubfid]

Good thing people don't ruin the environment, all 7 billion of them.
http://i.imgur.com/xRRVfRq.jpg
http://quads.ca/092113/IMG_3398.jpg
http://quads.ca/091810/IMG_0953.jpg
http://i.cbc.ca/1.1944546.1382410889!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_300/bc-0907310-fireworks-trash-first-beach.jpg
http://i.cbc.ca/1.2817739.1415949879!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_620/kinder-morgan-pipeline-protest-camp-on-burnaby-mountain.jpg

[adambomb]

From the BROKE Facebook page...
NO BIG OIL!! NO CORPORATIONS!!



Burnaby Residents Opposing Kinder Morgan Expansion: Be careful where you park because parking in no parking areas or in bike lanes will result in being towed and ticketed on Burnaby Mountain.

:rolleyes:


IMO. The most economical and perhaps safer route for that oil. Build refineries. Keep the oil in Canada, keep jobs in Canada.

[Hondaracer]

Canada doesnt need all the oil it produces.

[Manic!]

So they pay for the clean up. What about environment effect, or lost of animal lives or their homes being forever polluted now? How do you measure environment lost? You can't.

What about all the animals that lost there home when the place you live in was build? You understand the lower mainland was once all tree's and bushes with animals living in them right? Building a house on a piece of forested land is a lot worse then running a pipe underneath it.

[hchang]

Canada doesnt need all the oil it produces.

No but we sell it for a better economy

[stewie]

my work had a meeting with kinder morgan a few weeks ago regarding safety while digging.

(city workers)

from the KM guy giving his speech:

KM produces 300,000 tanker trucks worth of oil a day
enough underground pipelines to wrap the earth several times

anyways, if anyone lives near an underground fuel line in burnaby (delta ave for example). every year the houses are given mail stating that even though the homeowner may own his property, they're not allowed to plant a garden if they're within 30m of the pipe line. if they do want to plant something simple as a garden, they need to have an inspector come out to supervise if they're within a closer vicinity that 30m. must suck knowing that you cant even do simple things on your own property. also, ground disturbances...for example, my work, we can not stick a shovel into the ground until we've contacted KM and have been given a no conflict response or have a KM supervisor on site to nanny us. it may not seem like a big deal, but when a watermain breaks at 3am, my dept crews can show up quite fast. but if we're within 30 meters, we are not allowed to shut the watermain down...we simply have to let the houses flood. several weeks ago there was a watermain break under a curb...cars park beside cars, and 1 car decided to flip over onto its side from all the undermined dirt underneath it. it only took minutes to destroy the street/flood houses with water up to 3-4 ft deep in their basements/and destroy a car before we could shut it down. imagine waiting possibly up to an hour before they can gt a supervisor to nanny us. lets hope that your house isn't near the pipeline hahaha

[Soundy]

http://i.cbc.ca/1.2817739.1415949879!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_620/kinder-morgan-pipeline-protest-camp-on-burnaby-mountain.jpg
Got a kick out of a news bit yesterday saying a lot of the protesters had left because of the cold and rain and mud... and left a huge lawn area turned into a massive mud bog. I guess it's okay to trample all over nature if your heart's in the right place? :seriously:

[meme405]

Got a kick out of a news bit yesterday saying a lot of the protesters had left because of the cold and rain and mud... and left a huge lawn area turned into a massive mud bog. I guess it's okay to trample all over nature if your heart's in the right place? :seriously:

Most of those people have little to no knowledge of what they are even defending against. They are just band wagoners on this hip environmental movement to ban pipelines. They do a thousand things every day which if they collectively stopped would set back environmental degradation back 10 years. Instead they march against statistically some of the most environmentally friendly companies on this planet (seriously go look it up, many companies which are in oil&gas or environmentally sensitive fields of work, are usually industry leaders in other areas, things like paperless efforts, and helping to control power usage by employees etc). Sure many do dirty work, but they do what they can to limit their damage, and they tend to do it a lot better than other companies.

While were at it go look at a few maps, and you will realize how many pipelines are currently operating throughout the entire world. This isn't some new phenomenon which is decimating the worlds environment. This is established fucking technology which is universally understood as one of the quickest, and easily containable ways of transferring product from one place to another, everything from bitumen, to water, to sewage, even hydrogen.

As stewie said above, 300 000 tanker trucks a day (JUST FROM KM). Sure you don't want a pipeline? Fine we will send it all by truck, and that will be way more environmentally friendly than a pipeline. Meanwhile feel free to stop complaining about the cost of gas when you are filling up your SUV's, because our cost to market just doubled without that pipeline...

Just for shits and giggles this is the global map for energy transmissions pipelines (which account for only a certain percentage of total pipelines)

http://www.rextagstrategies.com/useruploads/images/global_gis_data.jpg

Here is NA:

http://fairquestions.typepad.com/.a/6a0120a65d9a8c970b014e5f6029d0970c-pi

[Soundy]

Most of those people have little to no knowledge of what they are even defending against. They are just band wagoners on this hip environmental movement to ban pipelines. They do a thousand things every day which if they collectively stopped would set back environmental degradation back 10 years.
I can only Thank this post once, so I'll quote it for added emphasis.

[underscore]

Mr Hapyslip is somewhat right. You can't fully measure environment lose to that extent and we certainly won't be able to "clean up" right away. It could take decades and by then it might have an affect on nearby plantlife and habitats depending on the extent of the spill/leak. It boils down to QC when it happens. This is a risk pipelines are taking that's for sure. So they make sure they have the controls in place to avoid or prevent from happening. You cannot 100% clean up a big loss of containment. This one the biggest con of the pipelines but is it worth the benefits we get from it? I think so.

There are too many assumptions being made in this thread

This goes right back to my first post in this thread: the oil WILL flow, whether you like it or not, so it can either flow through a pipeline or it can flow in rail cars and behind trucks that are much more likely to have accidents and spills. As far as clean ups go, I've yet to hear of any that have taken "decades" to do, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

must suck knowing that you cant even do simple things on your own property.

The people living near those lines knew they were there when they bought their house, their house might be worth less but they also would have paid less for it.

[Soundy]

All I can say looking at that map, it's a fucking good thing Northern Gateway won't be going through - that saved the whole damn planet right there.

[Soundy]

Okay, so they're showing video on the news this morning of some arrests yesterday... some stunned bitch in the crowd is looking horrified that "they're arresting grandmothers!" as some grey-haired lady is being stuffed in the paddy wagon... well fuck, the cops were face to face with people telling them, "cross the tape, go to jail", and then they ducked the tape while looking the cop in the face. What the fuck did you expect? "Oh okay, I told you not to do it, I told you what would happen, you looked me in the eye, and you did it anyway... but it's okay, you're a grandma, so I'll let you off... AGAIN."

:fulloffuck:

I loved the moron the other day who bike-locked herself to a concrete block, too. "This is unceded native land!" Guess what, dipshit, about 130% of BC is unceded native land. That means the Yaletown condo you call home is built on unceded native land. You ready to give that back?

[StylinRed]

IMO. The most economical and perhaps safer route for that oil. Build refineries. Keep the oil in Canada, keep jobs in Canada.

+1

would love it if we not only refined and sold our oil but if we also gave citizens the oil @ cost :/ likewise with electricity and natural gas considering we're overflowing in it so much and exporting like crazy :/ i know that'll never happen but would still love it :/

[jasonturbo]

I've seen a "protester" that bike-locked themselves to a gate post have the lock removed by the fire department with a grinder… while the protester sobs hysterically while selfie-ing the whole ordeal.

I've also seen "protesters" set up camp at a worksite, proceed to shit and piss all over the site while the RCMP get their wheels spinning, and then we have to get a Hazmat crew in to clean up the mess they leave.

Note that when I used the word protester, I do not mean people who are genuinely interested in saving the world etc… I mean people that we know for a fact at bring paid to protest, the RCMP also now this, these people are compensated by foreign interest groups and literally get paid extra for every single news crew that shows up, every time they get arrested, every hour they spend with a bike lock around their neck etc.

Anti-pipeline protesters and their multi-million dollar enablers | Financial Post (http://opinion.financialpost.com/2014/01/15/tides-usa-oil-sands/#__federated=1)

We had one situation where a "protester" jumped a fence, ran over to a valve and pressed a big red button to shut the valve in… totally oblivious to the potential consequences of doing so.. what if suddenly shutting that valve in caused a rupture? (If you know fluid dynamics you will understand why)

Again, most people are fairly reasonable with their concerns, but reasonable doesn't make for a good news hour… so you don't hear from these people too often.

Side note - Chevron plant in Burnaby was commissioned in 1935, long before there were any residential neighbourhoods nearby. Every person that lives in the refinery area and bitches about the refinery had the choice to move there knowing full well the refinery existed.

[meme405]

Side note - Chevron plant in Burnaby was commissioned in 1935, long before there were any residential neighbourhoods nearby. Every person that lives in the refinery area and bitches about the refinery had the choice to move there knowing full well the refinery existed.

I'm always amazed at the number of people who act shocked when I tell them this facility exists. I frequent Cates park, and every time I tell someone about what that tank farm is, they get all worried about the waterfront, and the environment. Then when you explain how long that facility has been there they seem to understand that their fear was irrational.

I remember a few years ago, I had some friends at SFU who lived nearby the site, and there was letters being dropped in their mailbox regarding protesting against the refinery regarding sulfur particles being deposited in the area. Chevron had to release a press release explaining to people how pollination works, and the pollen deposited on people's vehicles was not sulfur, and it had nothing to do with the refinery.


The people living near those lines knew they were there when they bought their house, their house might be worth less but they also would have paid less for it.

This^. Those people have those responsibilities because the land they bought already had a legal Right of Way established on it, long before many of them were even born. Next I am going to hear about people complaining about how they have to call BCOneCall before they dig on their property... "Yeah fuck the government, how dare they run necessary civil services under my property!"

[Soundy]

23036

[will068]

What do you guys think?

I personally think there is a lot more engineering, quality control and assurance in engineered pipelines over pill/drugged-up truck drivers.

It's going to go from A-B anyways, this is a safer (but slightly disruptive) way

What do you guys think? I'm an industry guy and I believe that things like this need to happen to strengthen the economy.

And those protesters were doing a good job until they started chaining themselves and 'chasing' workers telling them to get 'real jobs'..... Seriously?

My buddy is a BBY RCMP who had to attend to the protest. We were discussing how it is the biggest waste of RCMP resource. Someone higher up must be getting paid quite a bit by Kinder Morgan for the RCMP to prioritize this.

I'm all for protests as long as it does not harm other people. What I find perplexing is that the protesters should be protesting at the Kinder Morgan Headquarters. Why bother the technical core people who do not make such decisions and are just everyday people ? Bother the executives. Make their life hell. At least, the protesters will win public support this way. Better yet, lobby to the government to promote their agenda.


Funny, BBY RCMP are advising the protesters on the ground to not cross the yellow tape. They are explicit about this. Even telling them that they understand their cause, and there are more effective ways in promoting their agenda. What do the protesters do, cross the line and get arrested. Sheesh.

[jasonturbo]

The protesters can have a very negative impact in peoples lives.

For instance, say they get the Gateway project delayed, that could impact my ability to buy another GT3 :fullofwin:

[Soundy]

They're negatively affecting about 60 people who work at Horizons who haven't been able to go to work for a week now...

[T4RAWR]

My buddy is a BBY RCMP who had to attend to the protest. We were discussing how it is the biggest waste of RCMP resource. Someone higher up must be getting paid quite a bit by Kinder Morgan for the RCMP to prioritize this...

or... ya know... he could be doing his job?

that is, enforcing a court ordered injunction from the Supreme Court of B.C?

i don't see why this has to be some sort of conspiracy theory where deals are being brokered behind closed doors with the RCMP working as corporate lap dogs.

:suspicious:

[hchang]

or... ya know... he could be doing his job?

that is, enforcing a court ordered injunction from the Supreme Court of B.C?

i don't see why this has to be some sort of conspiracy theory where deals are being brokered behind closed doors with the RCMP working as corporate lap dogs.

:suspicious:

This....

What about the iPhone lineup at metrotown... Sure the RCMP resources could've been better spent but we need order and safety maintained through citizens and property protected...

[Soundy]

Y'know, it occurs to me... there are a lot of homes being left empty for days at a time here... and a lot of cops not patrolling the streets...

Bet if a bunch of the cop-hating protesters came home to find their places robbed, they'd be on the phone to 911 faster than you can say "no pipelines"...

[SumAznGuy]

I have no problems that the mother brought her 11 year old and her daughter's 11 year old friend to a protest.
What I do have an issue with, is using them as a pawn and allowing them to cross the line to potentially get arrested.
What point does that teach the children? That if you believe strongly enough about something, it is ok to break the law?

[Soundy]

I have no problems that the mother brought her 11 year old and her daughter's 11 year old friend to a protest.
What I do have an issue with, is using them as a pawn and allowing them to cross the line to potentially get arrested.
What point does that teach the children? That if you believe strongly enough about something, it is ok to break the law?

That's it's okay to use your children (and worse, someone else's children?!) as pawns to get your way? That will serve them well later when they're on their third divorce from their fifth babydaddy.

[GabAlmighty]

What do you guys think?

I personally think there is a lot more engineering, quality control and assurance in engineered pipelines over pill/drugged-up truck drivers.

It's going to go from A-B anyways, this is a safer (but slightly disruptive) way

What do you guys think? I'm an industry guy and I believe that things like this need to happen to strengthen the economy.

And those protesters were doing a good job until they started chaining themselves and 'chasing' workers telling them to get 'real jobs'..... Seriously?

I don't take any pills or do drugs.

[fishCak3s]

Someone forwarded me this:

Letter from Mayor Derek Corrigan sent to Burnaby residents, in response to Kinder Morgan?s ?Dear Neighbour? Letter (http://www.burnaby.ca/About-Burnaby/News-and-Media/Newsroom/Letter-from-Mayor-Derek-Corrigan-sent-to-Burnaby-residents--in-response-to-Kinder-Morgan-s--Dear-Neighbour--Letter_s2_p4811.html)

I've yet to read the initial letter from Kinder Morgan though

[SumAznGuy]

Someone forwarded me this:

Letter from Mayor Derek Corrigan sent to Burnaby residents, in response to Kinder Morgan?s ?Dear Neighbour? Letter (http://www.burnaby.ca/About-Burnaby/News-and-Media/Newsroom/Letter-from-Mayor-Derek-Corrigan-sent-to-Burnaby-residents--in-response-to-Kinder-Morgan-s--Dear-Neighbour--Letter_s2_p4811.html)

I've yet to read the initial letter from Kinder Morgan though

I read that letter a few days ago and it confuses me quite a bit since in his letter, Derek Corrigan says KM was at fault for the oil pipe line rupture.
I still remember how bad traffic was going home that day and how much of a mess that accident made.

My wife is certain that KM was at fault for that oil spill even though she doesn't know how but since the courts did say they were at fault and fined them $150,000.

[sebTeggy]

I don't take any pills or do drugs.

I was merely making a comparison between transportation modes and what I consider safer.

I was not making a general statement on behalf of truck drivers.

Back on topic...

[GabAlmighty]

I was merely making a comparison between transportation modes and what I consider safer.

I was not making a general statement on behalf of truck drivers.

Back on topic...

By talking out of your ass.

Yes you did.

Sure.

[underscore]

The protesters can have a very negative impact in peoples lives.

For instance, say they get the Gateway project delayed, that could impact my ability to buy another GT3 :fullofwin:

My DB9 has already been postponed by those fuckers :(

[SpuGen]

Pipelines are great.

Company just bought this for me on a whim.
http://i.imgur.com/8HaVsrv.jpg

[jasonturbo]

I read that letter a few days ago and it confuses me quite a bit since in his letter, Derek Corrigan says KM was at fault for the oil pipe line rupture.
I still remember how bad traffic was going home that day and how much of a mess that accident made.

My wife is certain that KM was at fault for that oil spill even though she doesn't know how but since the courts did say they were at fault and fined them $150,000.

If you read the link I posted you would see the courts found all three were at fault - all three parties plead guilty, so they were destined to be found at fault.

Kinder Morgan ordered to pay $150,000 in Burnaby oil spill - News - Burnaby Now (http://www.burnabynow.com/news/kinder-morgan-ordered-to-pay-150-000-in-burnaby-oil-spill-1.410790)

`Each party will pay a $1,000 fine and is ordered to contribute $149,000 into a B.C. environmental trust fund.

Trans Mountain is also voluntarily committing $100,000 to the B.C. Common Ground Alliance to fund DigSafe B.C. workshops.

The companies faced a maximum fine of $1 million each.

I read the entire incident report, plain and simple, if the ground disturbance regulations were observed, the line strike wouldn't have happened.

*Note the 100k commitment to B.C. Common Ground Alliance to fund DigSafe BC Workshops AKA ground disturbance training.*

[StylinRed]

Robyn Allan former ICBC CEO, etc etc is stirring shit up for Kinder Morgan at the National Energy Board

'Kinder Morgan Is Breaking the Law,' Economist Alleges | The Tyee (http://thetyee.ca/News/2014/11/24/Kinder-Morgan-Breaking-Law-Economist-Alleges/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=251114)

[multicartual]

Get that money!!!

[jasonturbo]

Robyn Allan former ICBC CEO, etc etc is stirring shit up for Kinder Morgan at the National Energy Board

This is a bit like playing whack-a-mole with a piece of string. Having said that, she is correct, nothing would have been submitted to the board.

KM shareholders voted in favor of the consolidation on the 20th of November - 5 days ago. Kinder Morgan can't submit paperwork to the board before the consolidation is approved and the transaction is complete, they will submit once the consolidation is legally complete, she is just hoping to stop work in the interim.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/kinder-morgan-gets-shareholder-approval-195002601.html

"Distancing" themselves from liability, not likely, it's a terrible idea to pull a fast one of the NEB, they have so many ways to make the company suffer - and they would make them suffer.

[Soundy]

I love how these types assume (or at least allege) that government bodies like the NEB are so scheming and complicit... and then in the next breath suggest they're all morons that wouldn't know a fast one if it smacked them upside the head...

[Soundy]

Burnaby loses legal battle against Trans Mountain pipeline | News Talk 980 CKNW | Vancouver's News. Vancouver's Talk (http://www.cknw.com/2015/11/23/burnaby-loses-legal-battle-against-trans-mountain-pipeline/)

The city of Burnaby is now on the hook for court costs after failing in its legal battle to stop the expansion of the Trans Mountain pipeline.

In a ruling posted online today, BC Supreme Court Justice George Macintosh ruled the city’s bylaws against the expansion were no match for the National Energy Board Act.

“Burnaby’s bylaws can have no application so as to impede or block the location of the Pipeline or the studies needed to determine its location … Where valid provincial laws conflict with valid federal laws in addressing interprovincial undertakings, paramountcy dictates that the federal legal regime will govern.”

Congratulations, Burnaby, your property taxes will be going up to pay for your mayor's stupidity.