[toddzilla]

OK this is not what I need this time of year (Merry Christmas to you all, by the way!) Here's what happened.

Just bought a nice , minty (literally - dark green) '94 JDM MR2 and it has a set of 17" Motegi wheels that somebody, at some point, decided to paint the lips of, white! Wouldn't be that objectionable on green, I suppose, but he left the centre bronze, and it's just too much for my taste. So I found a nice set on CL to replace these with and get a new/proper look!

Then I got to loosening the tuner/spline drive lug nuts =( The previous owner - or mechanic - reemed them super tight and it took standing on the tire iron to break them loose...except for one - then another - that literally snapped in half leaving the nub still holding onto the wheel stud deep in each hole. And yes, it's a dual bolt pattern wheel, so the tuner lug nut tool just gets in enough to access the tuner nut, but no other tools will get in there to 'vice-grip (etc) the broken nub out!

I was pissed, but just out of curiousity, I figured I might as well check them all as I'll be going in to a tire shop to have them devise a plan of attack to extract the nub with their magical skills!...hopefully?

But as I feared, they were all super tight, and yes, 3 other (*&^&^$ lug nuts snapped in half! So 16 were good, but 4 now had to be tackled! At least I knew when I went in.

Then the bad news. I called Volco and NTW - who then referred me to umpteen auto body/repair shops only to learn that the studs would have to be drilled out, and new studs would then need to be reinstalled...at an approx. time of an hour per bolt plus parts...so give or take $500! Nice!!

So I am booked in at a shop just down from Volco/1010 tires on Marine for Monday, but I'm wondering if anyone can either a) - recommend another option, or b) - tackle this job privately using your skills and tools, to the tune of saving me the $100 per hour. Yes, of course I will pay you, but it'd be great if you could save me a few bucks! This is a bad time of year, obviously!

One option I have heard is an option, is to weld some metal (inside the hole with the nub) onto the actual broken nub, essentially building it back up enough to be able to then unscrew the Frankenstein nub out leaving the wheel stud intact and still usable. Or even torching the stud/broken nub enough that it will loosen? If that's not a myth?

Anyways, sorry this is so damn long, but I needed to explain this as best as I could. ANY advice and/or help is appreciated and this may be a way for someone handy to make some extra Christmas money =)

Cheers!

[entrax]

hello, yay more mr2's! :alonehappy:

got close up pics? it will all depend on how much of the nut is still on there. if there's just a little bit, you could use a pick (tiny) and hammer and maybe crack the nut loose? what about different keys? maybe a different shaped one might just grab onto what's left...

[mb_]

TL;DR, the wheel studs broke? If so, it's a pretty straight forward job. Hammer out the old stud, install new stud

Welcome to the MR2 ownership Btw. Your current issue will be the least of your worries :fuckthatshit: :heckno: ask me how I know :okay:

Edit: Reading > me lol. Yeah pics would be great

[toddzilla]

Haha! I like how the first reply is another MR2 guy =)

There isn't enough of the nut left for the tool to grab on to - and what is there is so tight, it just strips what's left when you put pressure on any of them. Pretty much half of all the nuts - which are only about 1.5"-2" long - are snapped off. So the tool used only grabs the bottom 20% of the nut. No other tool will grab onto the remainder. A shop on Bridgeport even had a specially lathed down tool for tight holes to get in there to hopefully claw onto it, but to no avail.

The pick and hammer idea is a new one...can you chip away at hardened steel? That may be a possibility?

[toddzilla]

To mb_ - what's 'TL and DR?'

The studs are still intact - there are 4 broken tuner lug nuts holding onto them so the wheels can't be removed til they somehow come off. If I get the studs drilled out, then I will need to have 4 new studs punched back in...which I'm trying to find a more cost effective way around, though I fear there isn't. Here's 3 of the 4 broken (tops) of each tuner nut, if that helps at all? (I put a standard sized lug nut beside it as size reference)

[fliptuner]

How many wheels have stuck lugnuts and are they on the front or rear?

Do you care what happens to these wheels?

[toddzilla]

One wheel got away with all of the nuts breaking loose, but 3 of the 4 wheels have at least 1 broken nut remaining (1 wheel has 2, thus 4 in total)

Other than a painted lip, the wheels are mint and I don't mind the style or bronze centres, so I will either strip the white lip off and sell the set, or keep them if they look that much better once it's back to the stock machined/metal lip. So yes, I do care about keeping them nice, if at all possible. If it involves torching and I get some blemish or burning/discoloring, then I will plasti-dip them or something...maybe powdercoat?

[fliptuner]

Fair enough. I will warn you that because the lugholes are so small, there's a good chance the wheels will get damaged to some degree.

[Qmx323]

good lord how tight were they?!?!?

[toddzilla]

Well, if I have to go thru the drilling-out of the studs, they should be able to get to them without causing much damage to the face of the wheel. I expect a little scarring of the inside of the holes, but once the lug nuts are put back on, it should hide that fairly well, I would think?

[toddzilla]

good lord how tight were they?!?!?

In many cases, I had to literally stand on my tire iron to get enough force to break them loose!! Just a 'bit' tight! =P

[cruz-in]

i think i was driving beside you the other day :)

i was in the blue sti. i think i gave a thumbs up to your passenger lol


nice car!

used to have an American 94' turbo a few years back. fun car to play arount with , but yes it was a bitch to work on from time to time.

[LenovoTurbo]

In many cases, I had to literally stand on my tire iron to get enough force to break them loose!! Just a 'bit' tight! =P

Sorry to say, but the standing on the tire iron is what most likely caused the nut to snap off. It applies too much lateral force instead of rotational force.

In the future, should use a long pipe for leverage or an impact gun instead.

[RRxtar]

I dont know how yours look, but could you weld a nut onto the broken lug nut? and use an impact/electric impact gun on them.

[toddzilla]

I dont know how yours look, but could you weld a nut onto the broken lug nut? and use an impact/electric impact gun on them.

This is what I'm thinking. What remains in the hole is a broken shard, but there is a good 3/4" I would assume to grab onto. I didn't discuss this option with the shop that's tentatively drilling out the studs, but maybe I should beforehand? If I can salvage the original studs and save time/$, it's win-win!

[fliptuner]

I dont know how yours look, but could you weld a nut onto the broken lug nut? and use an impact/electric impact gun on them.

By the looks of the wheels and broken bits, there's no room to weld to what's left of the lugnut. Also, drilling down the length of the stud, centred, is extremely difficult, especially given it's tensile strength.

Good luck.

BTW, I'm assuming they look something like this (2 broken, 2 still mounted):
http://www.rx7club.com/attachments/suspension-wheels-tires-brakes-20/490578d1361304359-broken-lug-nuts-help-get-attachment-1-1212.jpg

[Gululu]

At this point the best option is to use Snap-On's Worn Lug Nut Extractor impact socket set
also you are supposed to manually imitate the impacting action when loosening lug nuts by hand

[toddzilla]

By the looks of the wheels and broken bits, there's no room to weld to what's left of the lugnut. Also, drilling down the length of the stud, centred, is extremely difficult, especially given it's tensile strength.

Good luck.

BTW, I'm assuming they look something like this (2 broken, 2 still mounted):
http://www.rx7club.com/attachments/suspension-wheels-tires-brakes-20/490578d1361304359-broken-lug-nuts-help-get-attachment-1-1212.jpg

yup - that's pretty much exactly what it looks like! One wheel has 2 broken off, and 2 others have 1 broken nut. Fun!

And gululu - I was avised to maybe try one of these out on another forum?

[Gululu]

something like this that can stand up to impact and hammering:

Blue Point Tools Worn Lug Nut Remover Twist Socket Snap on Tools Extension | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/BLUE-POINT-TOOLS-Worn-Lug-Nut-Remover-TWIST-SOCKET-SNAP-ON-TOOLS-EXTENSION/231428439572)

hammer it onto the soft aluminum aftermarket lugs and try loosening again with big air compressor

[toddzilla]

As great as all of these suggestions are, I don't have an impact gun or drill and I can't service my car in my underground - it's prohibited. I was hoping somebody had the skills to rent their services out. Shy of that, it's Monday in the shop =(

[Iron Chef]

I've taken broken wheel nuts all the time.
Because of the small recess hole your won't be able to get one of those tools listed above to fit.

You could try to hammer on a 3/8 drive 12 point socket.

What you will probrably have to do is get a die grinder with a very thin carbide bit to shave th lug nut till you can chisel IT off.

[fliptuner]

The problem with most extraction sockets is that they have thick walls. There's only a few mm's between the lugnut and the hole, so make sure the extractor will actually fit before you buy it.

Short of that, I'd probably go for a straight carbide burr and grind out opposing sides of the remaining lugnut. Another idea is to get a holesaw that's same size as the stud, remove the centering bit and drill around the stud and through the lugnut, being careful to stop before reaching the lug seat.

[kross9]

TL DR: Too long didn't Read

id suggest getting a torque wrench so this doesn't happen to you next time

[RRxtar]

Drilling the stud is going to be tough. Those studs are above grade 10.9 and hard as fuck.

When it comes to time to undo em, heat em ip real good even a propane torch will work

[skyxx]

Are there any photos of the broken lug nuts on the wheels?

I would suggest grabbing a "tungsten carbide bit" with a dremel and scave both sides of the nut until you're close to the stud threads. Then use a small chisel or punch to knock the two halves loose. It'll be time consuming but it might save your wheels and possibly your studs. Studs are easy to replace if damaged.

[Iron Chef]

If your patient you can remove it with minimal damage to the stud and the wheel

[godwin]

How long is your tire iron?.. extend it longer with a steel pipe then try again. Continuous force (vs jumping) works much better and reduces risk of breakage. I keep a 10 foot long pipe for scenarios like this.

Also are you using a deep socket? More surface area helps.. also the lower the temperature the more brittle the metal will be.

[RRxtar]

The problem with a huge breaker bar or pipe is you end up with uneven force on the nut, it almost prys on the nut. an imact puts force evenly around the nut. and the hammer function of the impact is very effective at snapping the moment of friction free

[sleepywheel]

I wouldn't mind giving it a try to get the broken lugnuts off. Probably be best to have a closer look at them before saying that I can do it. How much of the old nut is left on the stud? Are they broken off flush with the studs?

PM me and we can arrange a meeting.

[nma]

As mentioned before, why the hell were you standing and jumping on it to loosen it? Also, once you broke one of the lugs, why the hell did you continue to do it to the rest of the wheels? You should have stopped right away and used another technique or taken it to a shop where they have the proper power tools..

[Iron Chef]

Seized and or tight fasteners are best taken off by hand. Never use an impact .

[JSS]

alot of suggestions in here without anyone actually dealing with it before...

anyhow, i had the exact same problem last year...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/jshokar19/lug_zps7d0743ad.jpg

amongst trying all of the tricks already mentioned in here i also tried those bolt extractors, NOTHING WORKED.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/jshokar19/extr_zps21efddd9.jpg

your only option is gonna be to drill out the wheel studs and replace them.

if you're DIY, you're gonna need a powerful drill, start with a small bit to make a guide then go at er' with the next size bit, so and and so fourth until you have it drilled out.

if you cant DIY, contact independent speed shop in langley, they managed to take care of it without damaging my iforged wheels.

also, for the future, dont buy those cheap spline lugs, as you and I have both learned the hard way, theyre cheap for a reason.
go with some good blox racing lugs or something, theyre expensive but itll end up being cheaper than paying a mechanic to drill out your studs again.
and finally, ALWAYS torque your lug nuts by hand.

[fliptuner]

Update?

[cunninglinguist]

alot of suggestions in here without anyone actually dealing with it before...


amongst trying all of the tricks already mentioned in here i also tried those bolt extractors, NOTHING WORKED.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/jshokar19/extr_zps21efddd9.jpg



Hey, just wondering...did these not fit in the hole because it's too wide or they did not grab enough?

[underscore]

The first thing I'd go for would be using a small dremel bit on an extension to cut away at the remaining bit of lug on opposing sides until it snaps apart. Alternatively I'd hit the end of the stud dead on with an air hammer (or the biggest hammer you can find and a punch) until either the remaining bit of lug breaks or the stud breaks.

Either way, once you get it apart I'd replace all 20 studs as I wouldn't trust ones that have been subjected to being so severely overtightened.

[fliptuner]

That would be too big for the lughole.

[Gululu]

That would be too big for the lughole.

that's the tool how they take off thousands of oem, aftermarket lugs (with no keys) at my friend's rebuild/wreck shop in Surrey.
you really have to use the blue-point version, as it has all different sizes with slim profile. the main thing is to hammer it on heavy with sledge hammer.

alternatively, just cut the whole thing off with oxy acetylene torch or go at it with air chisel.

don't bother drilling, tensile strength on the studs are rated to 10, it will wear out any drill bit in your tool box :whistle:

[fliptuner]

I agree, the blue-point, slim extractor would probably fit but the one in the pic is definitely too big (and shallow) for the lugholes in the OP's wheels. Most diy-ers won't spend the money for quality tools, especially if they're one time use.

OP wanted to save the wheels, so oxy is out of the question. Although, since he's getting a shop to do it, the cost of labour could severely cut into the value of the wheels if they're trying not to damage them.

As I mentioned before, based on these wheels, I'd go straight carbide burr and grind 2 sides of the lugnut if a proper extractor doesn't work. If that failed, fuck it, cut the spokes off and chop the stud from the side.

[underscore]

^ getting to the back of the rear lugs without removing the rotor would be near impossible. The lugs are strong but the threads aren't so I think hitting the lug dead center with an air hammer/sledge and punch should be enough to strip the threads and pop it apart.

[JSS]

Hey, just wondering...did these not fit in the hole because it's too wide or they did not grab enough?

it fit perfectly fine, i tried hitting it when an impact gun, just didnt grab.

once again, i dont know how many people are actually speaking from first hand experience, but the only way i was able to tackle this was by drilling the stud out.
dont mean to sound like a dick but unless one has actually done this first hand stop posting mechanical advice before someone tries and and damages their vehicle.

[Iron Chef]

Based on first hand experience your way sounds way more time consuming and costly in the end once your factor in re/re 3 knuckles to replace drilled out studs.

Die grinder and patience is the only way with causing the least consequential damage to any other components. As with all things in life , results may vary depending on the level of your competency.

[SumAznGuy]

Sawzall beats everything.
http://imgur.com/9ZJmH.jpg