[pastarocket]

The BC coroner panel is recommending automated speed monitoring and a review of graduated licensing to reduce the number of motor vehicle related deaths among young people.


BC Coroner?s panel recommends automated speed monitoring, review of graduated licensing | News1130 (http://www.news1130.com/2015/02/11/bc-coroners-panel-recommends-automated-speed-monitoring-review-of-graduated-licensing/)

What do you think? -article does mention that photo radar program would not return under "automated speed monitoring".

[Mr.HappySilp]

While they are at it please make everyone take the road test before they can drive in BC. If you here on tour sure fine but if you are staying more than 3 months either take the road test or stop driving. A lot of ppl are just trading their driver license from their pervious to BC ones. We have no way to check if the license obtained is through legal means or not.

No joke lol got a few friends form China who never drove or get a driving license in China yet all they did was their family influence and got a driver license and just exchange it to a BC one. No test no nothing......

[Presto]

Don't you know this is RS? We be lazy, so make sure you post the article, and not just the link:
VICTORIA (NEWS1130) (http://www.news1130.com/2015/02/11/bc-coroners-panel-recommends-automated-speed-monitoring-review-of-graduated-licensing/) – A BC Coroner’s panel is recommending the provincial government look into automated speed monitoring in order to reduce the number of deaths of young people on the road.

The panel looked at the reasons behind fatal crashes involving young people between 2004 and 2013 and found speed was a factor in 30 per cent of the cases.

Seventy-five per cent of those who were killed were male, 40 per cent were impaired and about one third were breaking the conditions of their licence.

The panel isn’t giving specifics on what an automated speed monitoring system here would involve, but says it would not mean the return of the photo radar program.

Panel Chair Michael Eglison says the “how” would be up to the Ministry of Justice, but there are ideas that could be taken from other places that already have automated speed monitoring.

“Aerial surveillance; things like time distance, where cars are tracked at one point and then at another point, and there’s averaging speed; static cameras for red lights,” he lists.

The report is also calling for a review of the province’s Graduated Licensing Program after the deaths of 106 young drivers.

It says most of the people who died in the time period it examined were between 17 and 18 years old. The report finds fewer young drivers have died in the province since the program was introduced in 1998, but input from teens is needed to implement safe driving practices.

Despite the drop in young driver deaths, motor vehicle incidents remain the leading cause of death in BC for youth between 15 and 18 years.

The report recommends increasing awareness about fatal crashes involving young drivers through enhanced data collection by the coroners service and ICBC.

The licensing program involves a learner’s stage when drivers who pass a knowledge test must display an “L” sign on their vehicle, followed by a road test that leads to the novice stage and an “N” sign on vehicles.

[murd0c]

I do agree with it but how will ICBC know if it's actually the new driving driving? When I was younger I borrowed my parents car since I didn't have my own so in this case I'm not sure how it would work.

I'm for the idea 100% it seems like a lot of the younger kids have less care in this day and age and it will teach them a very valuable lesson for when they are older.

[underscore]

Problem 1 is that the current licensing program is too easy and full of holes. Like Mr.HappySilp mentioned some people have transferred over "licenses" that weren't legitimate, and I don't see why we're making it convenient for people moving to BC to drive here anyways, driving is a privilege so we need to start treating it like one. If you wanna live and drive here so badly take a damn test like everyone else did. The test itself needs to be more difficult because IMO the current system is easy as balls and doesn't teach you jack shit about actually driving.

Problem 2 is the dumbfuck parents buying brand new/high powered vehicles for kids that barely know how to drive. They need to implement displacement/HP restrictions for L and N drivers so we stop seeing N's on the back of 400+ HP cars that you just know will be wrapped around a pole within 6 months.

[Mr.HappySilp]

^^ Or simply refuse insurance on sports/high HP cars for new drives. Just to to Toronto or Calgary. They will outright refuse insurance for new drivers with a sports/High Hp cars, heck eve some regular cars they won't let you.

Want to get insurance for a new drive? Drive a beater.

[Bath Tussue]

Another problem is the lack of proper education for the licensing process.
I strongly believe in mandatory driver education. Grill proper driving etiquette and defensive driving techniques into their brains.

[RRxtar]

My gf said drivers training was part of her highschool education in Manitoba. Every kid had mandatory drivers training.

I think BC just made it so motorcycle licenses require taking rider training now.

the GLP is a great start. the part where they limit N drivers to only having 1 passenger is a huge step. When I was a young driver, 90% of the dumb shit I did was because I had a full car load of my friends egging me on. I believe I saw a report where young driver crashes have dropped significantly over the 15 years the GLP has been in effect.

This report is kinda vague tho, and the article is even worse. You cant really see whats going on without year by year numbers since the GLP keeps improving, and young driver crashes are on the decline. For all we know, most of those 106 fatalities could have been in the first 5 years.

All that being said, the most glaring thing in that article is this:

The panel looked at the reasons behind fatal crashes involving young people between 2004 and 2013 and found speed was a factor in 30 per cent of the cases.

Seventy-five per cent of those who were killed were male, 40 per cent were impaired and about one third were breaking the conditions of their licence.
They should focus on making sure people aren't driving illegally, or punishing them harder, instead of trying to find another way to write tickets.

[320icar]

If 40% were impaired, they should be installing the breathalyzer machine on every car with an L or an N while they are at it. If they feel speed is so deadly

[zilley]

I thought international license expires in one year and then they have to take the road test.

[GS8]

This is how I imagined most tests were done

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN1OLVeOTWo

[StylinRed]

The glp is a joke, proper driver training is needed, like on a closed course/lot.... and instructors should know and teach the rules of the road as well (like stay right, pass on left).... and none of this bullshit where if you're friendly with the instructor they just let you pass

All the glp is now is simply 1 extra, meaningless, road test... aka a money grab which doesn't even make sense because if they actually made the training demanding they would be able to create more jobs and grab even more money from those wanting to drive.... and cross our fingers we may have better drivers on the road finally

(had a bad day on the roads today ;))

[denham]

^^ Or simply refuse insurance on sports/high HP cars for new drives. Just to to Toronto or Calgary. They will outright refuse insurance for new drivers with a sports/High Hp cars, heck eve some regular cars they won't let you.

Want to get insurance for a new drive? Drive a beater.
This is how it is where I grew up in England. You can't insure a GTR at age 17, heck you can't insure a shitty old 5.0 Mustang at age 17 because of the displacement of the engine and the fact that it's a little bit fast in a straight line. Unless you've got a lot of money you buy a hatchback or sedan with a 1.6 or smaller engine. There are plenty of 1.0-1.6 litre cars in Europe partly for that reason. I think it makes a lot of sense. One other thing is that once you have experience and a clean driving record, insurance is typically a lot cheaper than it is over here for experienced drivers, which I think makes sense too.

I'm not super keen on the monitored speed, but I think there should be much tighter control on what kind of vehicle you can drive as a teenager.

[TouringTeg]

I could see the time distance system used on the Malahat on the island. There was talk of this when there was a string of accidents followed by a summer long speeding enforcement blitz.

There are no traffic lights on this section of hwy so if you make it past the checkpoint far too quickly you were excessively speeding. Picture taken and then ticket is in the mail.

[Timpo]

It's interesting how you guys are talking about horsepower and safety factor.

Japan used to have 280 horsepower rule because of safety concerns. Funny thing was, that only applied to JDM cars and people were still allowed to drive over 280hp as long as the car was not JDM. Japanese manufactures weren't even allowed to manufacture something above 280hp for Japanese domestic market.

Anyways, Japanese government found out that horsepower had nothing to do with death/accident rate.
People who drove Aston Martin, Maserati, Ferrari or Mercedes with big V12 aren't necessarily more dangerous than people with Civic Type-R, Silvia or even some kei cars(660cc or less).

To make a long story short, more horsepower does not mean higher accident/death rate, at least in Japan but I would imagine that to be same as in Canada too.

[underscore]

I'm not super keen on the monitored speed, but I think there should be much tighter control on what kind of vehicle you can drive as a teenager.

They wouldn't have to monitor speed if young drivers were restricted to the kinds of cars that can barely speed anyways.

[$_$]

They wouldn't have to monitor speed if young drivers were restricted to the kinds of cars that can barely speed anyways.

I don't understand what you guys are saying. Are you guys saying that a corolla can't speed? :suspicious:

[multicartual]

The amount of times I nearly died while a passenger in any number of my friend's fast cars while street racing when I was in my teens is pretty fucking high!

Now that I look back on it I can't believe more people didn't die!

[RRxtar]

The glp is a joke, proper driver training is needed, like on a closed course/lot.... and instructors should know and teach the rules of the road as well (like stay right, pass on left).... and none of this bullshit where if you're friendly with the instructor they just let you pass

All the glp is now is simply 1 extra, meaningless, road test... aka a money grab which doesn't even make sense because if they actually made the training demanding they would be able to create more jobs and grab even more money from those wanting to drive.... and cross our fingers we may have better drivers on the road finally

(had a bad day on the roads today ;))
its a whole lot better than it was pre GLP. you used to be able to go in at age 16 and write a written test and get your license and go driving that day unsupervised with no experience with a car load of your buddies.

now you have to do a written test, drive with an adult for a YEAR getting experience, and then after a road test, you have a class 7 for 2 years where you have restrictions on how you can drive. you cant get your full license until you're 19 when you should be smarter than a 16 year old.

In the first 5 years of the GLP program, accidents among first year drivers dropped by 26 percent, and more as its gone on.

I think they should take it a step farther and implement a vehicle restriction in the class 7 phase. ICBC has the systems of categorizing vehicles in place already where there are several different rate groups for cars. they could simple exclude certain classes from being operable by drivers until they earn their full class 5.

[underscore]

I don't understand what you guys are saying. Are you guys saying that a corolla can't speed? :suspicious:

Oh they can, but you can't get going as fast and you can't get there as quickly, and you have a larger margin of error. The top speed a 92 Camry can reach within 1 city block is going to be a hell of a lot lower than a brand new M3, it'll be the same on the highway and what will happen if you accidentally blip the throttle too much is very different.

[iEatClams]

While they are at it please make everyone take the road test before they can drive in BC. If you here on tour sure fine but if you are staying more than 3 months either take the road test or stop driving. A lot of ppl are just trading their driver license from their pervious to BC ones. We have no way to check if the license obtained is through legal means or not.

No joke lol got a few friends form China who never drove or get a driving license in China yet all they did was their family influence and got a driver license and just exchange it to a BC one. No test no nothing......

the other thing with this is it can possibly be a revenue stream for ICBC if these people have to take the test 5 times because they suck at driving like those TOEFL or ESL equivalent tests they had back awhile ago (not sure if they still have it since it's been years since I graduated)

I swear every fucking week I get some people changing lanes without shoulder checking and nearly hitting me. And don't get me started on parking lots in Richmond. . . ..

[Timpo]

ok so WTF is speed monitoring?

[corollagtSr5]

It's like when you drink and drive too many times, you get rewarded with a interlock breathalyzer. Probably will get catered to people who get too many speeding infractions where you win one of these awesome data logging computers installed after your suspension.

[StylinRed]

its a whole lot better than it was pre GLP. you used to be able to go in at age 16 and write a written test and get your license and go driving that day unsupervised with no experience with a car load of your buddies.

now you have to do a written test, drive with an adult for a YEAR getting experience, and then after a road test, you have a class 7 for 2 years where you have restrictions on how you can drive. you cant get your full license until you're 19 when you should be smarter than a 16 year old.

In the first 5 years of the GLP program, accidents among first year drivers dropped by 26 percent, and more as its gone on.

I think they should take it a step farther and implement a vehicle restriction in the class 7 phase. ICBC has the systems of categorizing vehicles in place already where there are several different rate groups for cars. they could simple exclude certain classes from being operable by drivers until they earn their full class 5.

i remember, i got my license pre-glp (just in the nick of time)
and while on paper it has a lot of rules there's no accountability unless a driver gets pulled over and caught not following the rules, even then it's just a warning (from the licensing program) iirc it's a 2 strike rule

the program needs to be a lot stricter and require more training at approved facilities imo

[Mr.HappySilp]

the other thing with this is it can possibly be a revenue stream for ICBC if these people have to take the test 5 times because they suck at driving like those TOEFL or ESL equivalent tests they had back awhile ago (not sure if they still have it since it's been years since I graduated)

I swear every fucking week I get some people changing lanes without shoulder checking and nearly hitting me. And don't get me started on parking lots in Richmond. . . ..

In China they don't do shoulder check lol. They just change into your lanes with no regards. Pretty scary if you are a passenger but is normal to them. That's why some Chinese still don't shoulder check.

[boostedcivic]

Want to get insurance for a new drive? Drive a beater.

Honestly I drive my beater harder then my summer car, beaters are exactly what they are. Theyre more fun and don't really have to care about them.

[JaPoola]

More stupid laws that affect the rest of us as a direct consequence of stupid kids killing themselves.

I have a better suggestion: don't allow driving until age of 19 if you're unwilling to have mandatory driver lessons.

[Lomac]

I'm actually surprised that speed was only a factor in a third of incidents. The way the media loves to make it sound, it should have been a lot higher. As for restricting higher displacement and hp vehicles, there's a counter argument for this. Sure, a Corolla can hit speeds that far exceed the posted limit. However, a car designed for higher speeds and horsepower typically also has the braking and suspension designed to help offset it. A modern AMG or //M will stop far quicker and safely than a modern Mazda 3 or Civic. I wouldn't say speed is necessarily the resulting factor rather than inattentiveness and the fact that your reaction time drops dramatically as your speed increases. Neither of those have anything to do with what car you're in. Hell, my 127hp Acura will hit speeds that exceed even the Coquihalla's limit almost as easily as many dedicated sports cars I've driven. The difference is that the latter can stop more easily than the Aucra.

[underscore]

^ they can only stop quicker if you're in control and paying attention. How many of these accidents do you think happened only because they couldn't stop in time and the vehicles braking system was the limiting factor?

[gars]

I'm actually surprised that speed was only a factor in a third of incidents. The way the media loves to make it sound, it should have been a lot higher. As for restricting higher displacement and hp vehicles, there's a counter argument for this. Sure, a Corolla can hit speeds that far exceed the posted limit. However, a car designed for higher speeds and horsepower typically also has the braking and suspension designed to help offset it. A modern AMG or //M will stop far quicker and safely than a modern Mazda 3 or Civic. I wouldn't say speed is necessarily the resulting factor rather than inattentiveness and the fact that your reaction time drops dramatically as your speed increases. Neither of those have anything to do with what car you're in. Hell, my 127hp Acura will hit speeds that exceed even the Coquihalla's limit almost as easily as many dedicated sports cars I've driven. The difference is that the latter can stop more easily than the Aucra.

Physics still dictates that even if they can stop quicker than a regular car - the stopping distances will still be longer.

Take an Audi R8 - it's 62mph-0 stopping distance is amazing at 112ft. Let's say a regular economy car has a stopping distance of 140ft.

Assuming the R8 has zero brake fade - it's stopping distance from 75mph-0 will be 163ft. Even though it can stop quite a bit quicker than a regular car, going just 13mph faster will equal a stopping distance of 50ft longer, 23ft longer than the economy car going 62. It isn't just about reaction time.

[Manic!]

It's like when you drink and drive too many times, you get rewarded with a interlock breathalyzer. Probably will get catered to people who get too many speeding infractions where you win one of these awesome data logging computers installed after your suspension.

Wait till they make that mandatory for all cars. every time you go 1 KM over you get a ticket.

[46_valentinor]

Physics still dictates that even if they can stop quicker than a regular car - the stopping distances will still be longer.

Take an Audi R8 - it's 62mph-0 stopping distance is amazing at 112ft. Let's say a regular economy car has a stopping distance of 140ft.

Assuming the R8 has zero brake fade - it's stopping distance from 75mph-0 will be 163ft. Even though it can stop quite a bit quicker than a regular car, going just 13mph faster will equal a stopping distance of 50ft longer, 23ft longer than the economy car going 62. It isn't just about reaction time.
That is a poor comparison. Your two variables are not even the same, comparing a faster traveling car to a slower moving one. I can also do the same by saying my bicycle stops faster than an F1 going at 300km/h.
Has it ever occurred to you guys that a driver who speeds will speed regardless of what kind of car they are in? Similar to how a driver who always drinks and drive will do the same regardless of the law?The only way to fix this problem is to increase driver education and increase the penalty. Get rid of the frequent oblivious speeders faster regardless if they are a novice or a mature driver. All those ideas regarding limiting displacement and horsepower and stuff like that won't work.
Also, the speed limit needs to be increased. When 90% of the cars on the roads are traveling +10 over the speed limit, going the speed limit is just plain dangerous. The government knows this is an issue as it has been suggested by engineers to increase the speed limits on many of the highways in BC.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

mandatory self driving cars. done.


lower HP whatever wont change anything. i took my town and country up to 185km/h back in HS cuz i could.

an echo can still speed and the driver can still get drunk and slam into a pole or people. it makes no difference.

i can take a civic up to 100km/h pretty fast.

i bet if they released the cars involved in all teen fatal accidents... none of them are exotics like lambos and ferraris. you might get an M series here and there. but i bet the majority of them are just mom and pop cars.

you wanna lower % of accidents? you don't target the 1%. you target the majority average people. they cause most of the accidents. the 1% of the 1% cause some accidents, but they're so few it almost doesn't even matter stats wise.

anyway. self driving cars. remove the right to drive on public roads. done.

[46_valentinor]

In addition, although I know translink is quite terrible, having a good public transportation system will also help tremendously. Provide a service to the majority that will cause them to leave the car home, not need to apply for a drivers license and take public transportation. With the increase in gas prices, insurance and traffic congestion, it will simply be not worth driving for people who are on a tight budget such as students.

[gars]

That is a poor comparison. Your two variables are not even the same, comparing a faster traveling car to a slower moving one. I can also do the same by saying my bicycle stops faster than an F1 going at 300km/h.
Has it ever occurred to you guys that a driver who speeds will speed regardless of what kind of car they are in? Similar to how a driver who always drinks and drive will do the same regardless of the law?The only way to fix this problem is to increase driver education and increase the penalty. Get rid of the frequent oblivious speeders faster regardless if they are a novice or a mature driver. All those ideas regarding limiting displacement and horsepower and stuff like that won't work.
Also, the speed limit needs to be increased. When 90% of the cars on the roads are traveling +10 over the speed limit, going the speed limit is just plain dangerous. The government knows this is an issue as it has been suggested by engineers to increase the speed limits on many of the highways in BC.

I'm just trying to argue against people who justify speeding in a supercar just because they have big brakes and sticky tires. I'm not arguing for or against the recommendations.

[Tone Loc]

IMO the problem is ICBC being a profit-minded machine rather than actually caring about driver safety and education. Look at the whole Chinese DL fiasco that happened recently. Because ICBC gets a ton of money from all the Chinese drivers who insure high-value cars and then damage them, they effectively convinced the RCMP to stop doing their jobs, when really they should be doing the opposite and examining why certain groups of people with certain licenses get into more collisions. It simply shouldn't be so easy to get a BCDL and effectively let people who have no understanding of driving in Canada drive around with no checks or balances.

I also agree that there should be class restrictions regarding what GLP drivers can drive, as well as a tougher "L" and "N" road test instead of how it is now where you are essentially driving around a couple blocks and then 20-30 seconds on the highway.

In a perfect world, we'd be like Europe where young people would be forced to learn on a manual car and do their test in a manual unless they had some kind of disability. IMO that would weed out a lot of shitty drivers. And then be straight up priced out of insuring high-powered or high-value cars until they had a full license. But that's wishful thinking, somehow in North America we see driving as a right instead of a privilege.

EDIT: I also think ICBC should do mandatory yearly re-certification for seniors. All this talk about how young people don't have the reflexes, hand-eye coordination, etc. to drive a car, yet nobody really addresses the opposite end of the spectrum. It's proven that people lose their reflexes, vision, coordination, etc. as they age, and I think it's crazy that seniors can just drive up until they go blind with nobody to stop them unless they get into an accident and/or pulled over.

[underscore]

^ as a side note, I know that many seniors who crossed over to legal driving age during WWII in some countries never actually took a driving test. In the UK they just asked if you had been driving a tractor or truck for XX amount of time during the war and if you said yes you got a license.

[Tone Loc]

^ as a side note, I know that many seniors who crossed over to legal driving age during WWII in some countries never actually took a driving test. In the UK they just asked if you had been driving a tractor or truck for XX amount of time during the war and if you said yes you got a license.

Personally I'd give these guys a free pass since they kinda, just maybe were the last bastion of freedom stopping the Nazis from making sure we drove shitty German cars everywhere. Or be killed because I'm Asian, not sure what's worse...

But I am willing to bet that many seniors on the roads now would not pass the Class 5 road test if made to do so.

[underscore]

I'm assuming it was the same for military service members but I only know for sure about civilians who worked on farms and such helping with the war effort.

It's a bit of a toss up as to whether they would pass, I'm sure sheer experience and having driven all manual cars made in the 20's would help somewhat.

[twitchyzero]

GLP probably helps but I still remember wanting to sneak out with my parent's car when I had my L

Once people got their N in grade 12 there were plenty of burn outs and speeding of 70+ kph in school zones right after school, with plenty of kids around.

sadly I got into one those car a few times...thought I was gonna dieded.

ICBC should do educational seminars on reckless driving to grade 10 classes like sex ed ...that would've scared most of them I'd presume. Teenagers think their invincible if you just tell them don't do this or that but don't show any consequences.

[inv4zn]

When I was in highschool BC Paramedics came out and did a presentation to grade 12's about driving (speeding, under the influence, etc.)

All the kids driving were ignoring what was being said, until they brought out a model of this, and demonstrated what will happen if you get into a severe crash.

http://thumb1.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/230998/103816370/stock-vector-drawing-of-a-catheter-in-a-male-showing-the-position-of-the-catheter-in-the-urethra-and-bladder-103816370.jpg

Every single guy immediately shuddered, closed their legs, and paid attention.

[Presto]

^^^
It hurts coming out more than it does going in!

[BoostedBB6]

If the issue is with young drivers, then address the young drivers. Don't implement something that has so many holes and goes after every driver on the road. Automated Speed Monitoring is nothing more than photo radar and does nothing for new drivers, it just becomes a revenue generator again and nothing to do with safety.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

or...

maybe young people are just destined to do high risk things because that's the nature of young people.

therefore, young people will die. the end. period. leave it at that.

the few young people that take high risks and succeed at it, might get really good at it and become extreme sports or competitive drivers.

yes, and the onus and payment is the blood of young drivers and people that get hit by them... society will always absorb the damage.

but hey, blood is the only real currency in this world for advancement right? RIGHT?! RIGHT?!?!?!

right.


it's like... declawing a tiger. or removing the sting from a scorpion. what are we really trying to do here.

tiger gotta claw, scorpions gotta sting, kids gotta risk.

[Timpo]

oh fuck BC should just learn from Germany, they have far better driver training and one of the safest highway in the world, Autobahn.

Germans take driving very seriously, whereas BC doesn't. All we need to do is to ask one your buddy's brother who is 25 yrs or older, or ask your parents to teach you and off you go. In Japan, you must be trained by official instructor certified by the government. I believe same as in Germany too.

[Timpo]

and HP/displacement limitation on your license? Well that's too bad for kids, they would have to ditch their mom's V6 Powered Camry, Maxima or Accord and drive one of these instead.

http://usedcarnews.jp/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/B20B%E6%94%B9VTEC%E3%82%A8%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B8%E3%83 %B3%E6%8F%9B%E8%A3%85%E3%83%AD%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BF%E 3%82%B9%E3%82%A8%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BC%E3%83% 95%E3%82%A7%E3%82%A4%E3%82%BA220130805_1.jpg
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2013/05/lead22-2013-campagna-t-rex-16s.jpg
http://thesupercarkids.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/caterham-csr-260-superlight-02.jpg

[RRxtar]

when Ulic Qel-Droma posts i be like:


http://static.gamespot.com/uploads/original/1503/15037917/2373463-7501885037-didnt.gif