[svelt]

Hi RSers, I'm looking at a Lexus that's listed for 32k, however there are a string of accidents related to it on the Carfax - a 23k, a 9k and a 9k. I plan to keep this vehicle for a while, so resale value, while important, is not my top priority in decision-making. I don't have experience with dealing with ICBC repairs, but the dealer claims all of these claims were cosmetic. I can believe the pair of 9k accidents as parts for luxury vehicles can be very costly.. but $23,000+ in damages from ICBC? How severe is that typically? Is it possible that everything mechanically "checks out" even with such a huge cost of repairs that is more than an average new economy car? I'm aware shops will gouge ICBC when they can, but I've never heard of a repair bill that high before.

Should I run the hell away? Or should I try to negotiate a massive discount? I was thinking of asking for 5k off the list price (27k) - is that an offensively low ball offer considering the accidents it's been in? Or am I even selling myself short? Blue book value pegs the car at 29k.

[nabs]

run far far away WOW. 23k accident is huge.

[cdizzle_996]

23K is pretty considerable.

The way I look at is it, how are similars cars priced? Is this a car thats market value is 45k, and its underpriced due to its claims. Or is it 4k cheaper than another similar that has 1 claim for $2500.

I'd stay away, or spend the extra few k for another one for peace of mind, and resale when the time does come down the road.

[jasonturbo]

I'm usually hesitant to buy anything with significant repairs, but then I think about the cars that I have repaired and the quality of the work being basically 99% of OEM quality… the people that bought my repaired cars got a great deal.

Even my PY ITR had a front hit that justified going to JDM front… but whoever did the conversion did a great job (I know that's a simple fix, but some people manage to really butcher it).

With new cars and the price of parts (Especially Lexus body trim parts, the prices are worse than Porsche parts), 23K could be headlights, LED ballasts, hood, hood garnish pieces, grille, bumper, fog lights, rad support, rad, a/c condenser, airbags, couple fenders and some paint/blend… 23K might not be such a crazy repair.

IMO it's the crazy Lexus part prices that made those 9k, 9k and 23k repairs… on a Honda it probably would have been 3k, 3k , and 8-10K.

Might be worth taking a peek at it, if you like it and the repairs look good to you, bring it to a body shop for second opinion.

You can snag great deals on some repaired vehicles, I missed out on an E92 M3 last year for 27K with 17000KM in immaculate condition with a branded title.. and the repairs were minimal and near perfection.

GL!

[320icar]

The fact you have to ask should already tell you what we're going to say.

[Nabatron]

Lol fuck that shit!

[Zordon]

Not worth it one bit, heed the advice of RSers and "RUN FOREST, RUN!"

[Dragon-88]

Take your time if you know what car you want. You'd hate to want to buy something(especially at that price) then have huge headaches later.

If you're looking to keep it for awhile. Try to find something with good history. IE Maintenance records, receipts, original owners. They're out there.

Maybe post a WTB thread. You never know, that's how I found my S2K. Seller came to me, all the listed cars were crap.

And yes, run away. With all those claims, it's not worth putting good money in a beat up car.

[Gerbs]

what car

[nsx042003]

it doesnt take much. oem parts arent cheap. what car? depends on the brand as well. lexus can be expensive whereas parts for a hyundai may be considerably lower

[saucywoman]

I'm usually hesitant to buy anything with significant repairs, but then I think about the cars that I have repaired and the quality of the work being basically 99% of OEM quality… the people that bought my repaired cars got a great deal.

Even my PY ITR had a front hit that justified going to JDM front… but whoever did the conversion did a great job (I know that's a simple fix, but some people manage to really butcher it).

With new cars and the price of parts (Especially Lexus body trim parts, the prices are worse than Porsche parts), 23K could be headlights, LED ballasts, hood, hood garnish pieces, grille, bumper, fog lights, rad support, rad, a/c condenser, airbags, couple fenders and some paint/blend… 23K might not be such a crazy repair.

IMO it's the crazy Lexus part prices that made those 9k, 9k and 23k repairs… on a Honda it probably would have been 3k, 3k , and 8-10K.

Might be worth taking a peek at it, if you like it and the repairs look good to you, bring it to a body shop for second opinion.

You can snag great deals on some repaired vehicles, I missed out on an E92 M3 last year for 27K with 17000KM in immaculate condition with a branded title.. and the repairs were minimal and near perfection.

GL!
Lexus's are fairly expensive to fix.. What are you looking at and from where?

[jshen]

It depends on the type of vehicle as well. 23k on a LFA is different than say an IS. That being said, 23k is significant damage.

[svelt]

It's a Lexus IS350C, a few years old. I've sort of already mentally moved on after stewing on it tonight - with 23K, 9K and 9K I'm surprised it wasn't a total loss. That said I've seen pretty "simple" repairs go for 10k in luxury vehicles. I just wondered if it's even possible it could be 23k and be "simple".

[nsx042003]

my 08 isf got totaled at 27k damage in feb 15. that 350c mustve had that 23k damage in its eariler life

[cdizzle_996]

At the end of the day when you do want to sell say 5 years down the road, you're going to limit yourself to probably 5% of people because of the claims

[flagella]

While $23k damage may not be a ridiculous amount for a Lexus which is relatively expensive to fix, you better have the car thoroughly checked before purchasing it.

But please, don't get that ugly car.

[ts14]

ihave a benz at theshop with 13-15k worth of repairs but this claim is suh that its purely parts and paint.

23k will def have frame and sheetmetal damage.

if its repaired properly, its really not that big of a deal, although i have seen some "reputable" shop spit out some questionable work.

i would seee where the repairs were done and look on the car to inspect the repaired sections. if it looks good, keep it. if not, skip it

[Gucci Mane]

Isn't the IS350C a chick car? Lol.

[AudiFreak]

Check the car very thoroughly if you get a decent offer. Where is this car listed? I can't seem to find it to compare to other local deals for a similar vehicle (mileage, year, open ions, etc). I would definitely try to go below CBB though.

[- kT]

first off, lexus parts aren't overly expensive, contrary to popular belief that they are. bmw and mercedes parts are expensive. a lexus is a toyota. parts cost a little more but nowhere near as bad as people are making it sound. matter of fact i did an estimate 2 days ago for a brand new is350, oem door skin: $500 bucks. mazda3 door skin, $380 bucks. typically if the claim is in the 20,000+ range, airbags have been deployed. i work as an estimator and i have yet to see a job above 15k that didn't involve airbags. it's definitely possible depending on the car of course, but still, i'd stay far, far away

[jasonturbo]

first off, lexus parts aren't overly expensive, contrary to popular belief that they are. bmw and mercedes parts are expensive. a lexus is a toyota. parts cost a little more but nowhere near as bad as people are making it sound. matter of fact i did an estimate 2 days ago for a brand new is350, oem door skin: $500 bucks. mazda3 door skin, $380 bucks. typically if the claim is in the 20,000+ range, airbags have been deployed. i work as an estimator and i have yet to see a job above 15k that didn't involve airbags. it's definitely possible depending on the car of course, but still, i'd stay far, far away

I could provide you with a list of parts from the dealer that would 100% make you retract that statement. Especially OEM ISF parts, they are absolutely brutal.

Here's a thought for everyone in this thread that is like "OMG stay away, it has accidents"… so what do you do when someone smashes your non-accident car? You get terribly sad and depressed knowing you will one day have to sell it with a damage history at a discounted price.

In contrast, if you buy a car with previous accident history and it gets smashed again it won't really impact resale much if at all… and then if it gets wrote off, ICBC will (Experience has confirmed this) pay you out without taking the accident history into consideration… so you will get a better return in % on a total loss relative to price paid.

I'll always consider rebuilt cars, but I am very confident in my ability to pick cars/repairs apart.

Mehhhh oh well, the more people are scared to buy accident cars, the more money I will save buying the good ones lol

[Edison_Chen]

At the end of the day when you do want to sell say 5 years down the road, you're going to limit yourself to probably 5% of people because of the claims

True.. It will be even harder to sell the car privately especially with the high claim amounts, unless it's very cheap and desperate to sell.

[jasonturbo]

True.. It will be even harder to sell the car privately especially with the high claim amounts, unless it's very cheap and desperate to sell.

Yes, but when you buy the car with the same discount you sell it with, it's all relative.

in contrast, if you buy a clean car and then have it smashed during your ownership, you are now bearing the brunt of having to provide that discount.

[- kT]

I could provide you with a list of parts from the dealer that would 100% make you retract that statement. Especially OEM ISF parts, they are absolutely brutal.

Here's a thought for everyone in this thread that is like "OMG stay away, it has accidents"… so what do you do when someone smashes your non-accident car? You get terribly sad and depressed knowing you will one day have to sell it with a damage history at a discounted price.

In contrast, if you buy a car with previous accident history and it gets smashed again it won't really impact resale much if at all… and then if it gets wrote off, ICBC will (Experience has confirmed this) pay you out without taking the accident history into consideration… so you will get a better return in % on a total loss relative to price paid.

I'll always consider rebuilt cars, but I am very confident in my ability to pick cars/repairs apart.

Mehhhh oh well, the more people are scared to buy accident cars, the more money I will save buying the good ones lol

let me elaborate a little bit. when a car is repaired, insurance companies will make you take the most economical route of repairs. in most cases this means used or aftermarket parts. in the case of lexus and toyota, aftermarket can come in the form of oem surplus parts from marrand. in other words, the parts are OEM, but they're also "aftermarket". i can refute your statement by giving you comparisons of like parts on lexus' and then on regular cars like civics or mazda3's. it also comes down to supply and demand. you mentioned the ISF. how many ISF's are even on the road? of course parts will be expensive. why not take the part prices of an IS250, which is much more commonplace than an ISF, and is also a lot more similar to the car in question, and compare those prices? at the end of the day a repair is a repair. 4 hours repair on a quarter is the same on any car, regardless of make or model. the exception would be the compound of the metal but unless it's aluminum or ultra high strength steel that's a moot point as well. this is just speaking from personal experience, but i'm willing to bet that if i took a scenario of say, a single vehicle accident from impact with a concrete post, damage down the entire side on a honda civic and a lexus is250 and punched it into audatex, the final repair bill would probably have a 20% margin of difference at the most. the less parts are involved, the closer this margin would be

[- kT]

double post:toot:

[Edison_Chen]

Yes, but when you buy the car with the same discount you sell it with, it's all relative.

in contrast, if you buy a clean car and then have it smashed during your ownership, you are now bearing the brunt of having to provide that discount.

It's true, but at the same time you have to find the perfect buyer(privately) who willing to buy a vehicle that has that much damage, even if it's at a low price. You will also have to factor in a few years later, the vehicle will depreciate some more, and then you will lose even more leverage.

[jasonturbo]

i work as an estimator

Sorry, you said you were an estimator but then made reference to audadex, are you an estimator (as in employed by a repair facility) or an adjuster(as in repaired by an insurer or brokerage)?

[- kT]

i work at a repair facility. just fyi though, insurance companies have their own estimators and damage appraisers as well - or they have independent appraisers. audatex is pretty much the standard estimating software in BC for all insurance companies (family, CDI, CNS, RSA, ARI and of course ICBC all use audatex). however later this year icbc is switching back to mitchell, so it's a given that the other insurance companies will (have to) follow suit

[jasonturbo]

i'm an estimator, employed by a bodyshop. just fyi though, insurance companies have their own estimators and damage appraisers as well

i'd stay far, far away

I just found it strange that you would advise people to stay away from repaired vehicles and you work for a repair facility… remind me not to use your body shop :troll: lol

I guess you have your experience and I have mine… either way kicking a dead horse, we might as well start a "Would you buy a repaired car" thread at this point.

[- kT]

I just found it strange that you would advise people to stay away from repaired vehicles and you work for a repair facility… remind me not to use your body shop :troll: lol

I guess you have your experience and I have mine… either way kicking a dead horse, we might as well start a "Would you buy a repaired car" thread at this point.

it's all relative man - but the gist of what i'm trying to get at is if i had a car that was valued at mid 20k (which is probably about what my car is worth actually), and it had a hit for 23k on it (lets disregard the other 9k hits), and lets say the hit happened when the car was brand new and valued at 40k so it was repaired instead of written off. like i mentioned at 23k worth of damage you're talking very probable airbag deployment which starts leading me to questions like is the frame or unibody damaged? was the SRS matrix followed and ALL SRS parts were replaced and NOT repaired? what type of parts were used if replacement was required, used, amkt or oem? and then if all those questions are in order, THEN i'd start to inquire about quality of repair. at the end of the day, all those questions are looming, and the reality is you'll likely never have a certain answer to all of these questions - which makes the $2000 you save not very worth it. in simpler terms, i wouldn't touch a lexus is350 with a 23k repair bill, full stop. to me it wouldn't matter if it was repaired at simple joe's body shop or a certified lexus repair facility, $23,000 of damage is a LOT of damage

just my 2 cents :)

[white rocket]

What you should be concerned about is a collision that it severe enough to twist/bend the unibody. That's where I draw the line. When pulling or straightening a unibody there are "tolerances" or "within spec" limits that are not perfectly exact meaning that the unibody could/will always be slightly out of wack. IMO the car will never be the same again. Perhaps those in the repair business would disagree or have a different opinion because they are doing the work themselves but I couldn't handle a twisted car.

Outside of that, I'd consider any car with a claim as cosmetic stuff(re&re parts) doesn't really affect anything other than the stigma of the claim to a potential buyer.

Just my $0.02

[bing]

Even for a Lexus, 23k IS a very significant accident even though it may not justify a write-off.

[Harvey Specter]

I had an Audi A5 a few years back, some guy in a parking lot was on his phone and reversed right into me smashing the entire drivers side of my car. It took Audi 2 months to repair my car and $18k in total parts/labor. Even though the repair was done by a credited shop, the door was misaligned and would never shut properly, window switch would stop working for no reason, my front end align was always off because the guy also damaged my front rim when he hit me. And the paint never matched. Thankfully my car was leased and I returned it.

Point of my story is stay away from a car with $23k worth of damage, it's not worth the headaches down the road.

[heleu]

What do you mean by keeping the vehicle for a while? It's a 2 door convertible, so I doubt you will keep it for more than 5 years.

Realistically, if you are reselling within 5 years, I'd walkaway. It's just not worth the hassle when you try to sell it.

[svelt]

Thanks guys. I've made up my mind and bought something different. Pay to play, I guess. If anyone is spending so much on a car it's good to buy something solid to have peace of mind. I agree $23k is just far too high and the vehicle is very inappropriately priced. I've seen a car with a repair bill as "low" as $8000 and the alignment was never the same on it.

[Vtec4life]

23k damage for a 70k vehicle is too much already.

[VR6GTI]

I had an Audi A5 a few years back, some guy in a parking lot was on his phone and reversed right into me smashing the entire drivers side of my car. It took Audi 2 months to repair my car and $18k in total parts/labor. Even though the repair was done by a credited shop, the door was misaligned and would never shut properly, window switch would stop working for no reason, my front end align was always off because the guy also damaged my front rim when he hit me. And the paint never matched. Thankfully my car was leased and I returned it.

Point of my story is stay away from a car with $23k worth of damage, it's not worth the headaches down the road.
You went to a shitty shop then. That's your only issue.

This thread makes me laugh talking about part prices and repairs. Everyone is speculating.

[Expresso]

You went to a shitty shop then. That's your only issue.

This thread makes me laugh talking about part prices and repairs. Everyone is speculating.
But the only real person quoting prices/repairs is KT...

[Phil@rise]

there are few cars produced with 23k bumpers. So its safe to assume the damage was severe. Of course the seller is going to say it was cosmetic and its possible they believe that, afterall they could be ignorant to what cosmetic and structural damage is. I would stay away and treat it as a write off

[bing]

You went to a shitty shop then. That's your only issue.

This thread makes me laugh talking about part prices and repairs. Everyone is speculating.

Says the guy who never owned a Lexus or BMW? :lawl:

[nsx042003]

I could provide you with a list of parts from the dealer that would 100% make you retract that statement. Especially OEM ISF parts, they are absolutely brutal.

Here's a thought for everyone in this thread that is like "OMG stay away, it has accidents"… so what do you do when someone smashes your non-accident car? You get terribly sad and depressed knowing you will one day have to sell it with a damage history at a discounted price.

In contrast, if you buy a car with previous accident history and it gets smashed again it won't really impact resale much if at all… and then if it gets wrote off, ICBC will (Experience has confirmed this) pay you out without taking the accident history into consideration… so you will get a better return in % on a total loss relative to price paid.

I'll always consider rebuilt cars, but I am very confident in my ability to pick cars/repairs apart.

Mehhhh oh well, the more people are scared to buy accident cars, the more money I will save buying the good ones lol

Well said. To me, I like how the general public thinks, because i get to buy nice cars with damage for little to nothing...especially if the car checks out fine and repaired correctly.

And yes...ISF parts are..FUCKing expensive. Air bags didn't even deploy on my car and parts totalled up to 20K i believe