[Ruff Ryd@s]

I've searched online and found mixed results, but if someone was found by the rcmp inside their vehicle, sleeping in the driver seat, with the vehicle shut off and parked in front of a business' parking lot, and was forced to do and fail the breathalizer on the spot, how disputable is this scenario?

anyone hear of or experience this before?

FYI there is a 30 day car impound and 90 day driving suspension that goes along with this if the breathalizer test was failed.

[murd0c]

Here's a good article explaining the reasons. Basically you are fucked now.

Drunk in the Backseat of a Car? You Could Get a D.U.I. | Theo Sarantis (http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/theo-sarantis/driving-drunk_b_1837156.html)

[hchang]

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j152/texasbanks/C1A07273-338B-4B42-92AF-2CF54D26AB46_zpsrncbo2yi.jpg (http://s79.photobucket.com/user/texasbanks/media/C1A07273-338B-4B42-92AF-2CF54D26AB46_zpsrncbo2yi.jpg.html)

[Ruff Ryd@s]

Here's a good article explaining the reasons. Basically you are fucked now.

Drunk in the Backseat of a Car? You Could Get a D.U.I.$|$Theo Sarantis (http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/theo-sarantis/driving-drunk_b_1837156.html)

But then there is this article as well
» Supreme Court of Canada waters down drunk driving law on 25th anniversary of project red ribbon Duhaime Law (http://www.duhaimelaw.com/2012/10/30/drunk-driving-laws-watered-down-by-supreme-court-of-canada/)

main points being:
The main issue before the Supreme Court of Canada in this case was whether there needs to be “a risk of danger to persons or property” to convict a person under §253(1) of the Criminal Code when the person has care or control of a vehicle and is drunk. In other words, can a person be convicted if they are drunk and have care or control of a vehicle but there is no risk of danger to anyone else or property?

The Supreme Court of Canada held that to convict a person under §253(1), there must be a risk of danger to persons or property in addition to the presence of a drunk person having care or control of a vehicle, and that the risk must be a realistic (and not a theoretical) one.

What that meant for Mr. Boudreault was that his conviction was overturned and he was free to go because although he committed the offence under §253(1) of the Criminal Code, the fact that he was asleep meant that there was no risk to any person, including himself, or to property, by his control of the vehicle.

[GabAlmighty]

Throw the keys in the bush next to you and you'll "maybe" be ok. But pretty much, don't even look at your car if you're drunk or you'll get a DUI.

Fuckin bullshit.

[white rocket]

If keys are on your person and you are even "near" your car they will charge you.

Had a buddy drunk as fuck downtown, sitting with some chick on a curb beside his vehicle. Cops walked by, started asking what was going on, asked if the truck he was 10 feet away from was his, then breathalyzed. He got 30 day impound, 90 day license suspension and now awaiting a decision on the 1 year Interlock.

Supreme Court was to look at the laws again back in January but I didn't hear anything about the result.

[GabAlmighty]

^^^^Wow. I honestly thought that if the keys were outside the vehicle you were ok.

That's pretty stupid you can't even sit near your vehicle... At which point do they draw the line? What if i'm in a house an my car is in the driveway, car might only be 10-20' from me hahaha.

[GGnoRE]

If you have the money, should've refused breathalyzer and ask for lawyer

[hchang]

If you have the money, should've refused breathalyzer and ask for lawyer

I thought if you refused brethalyzer officers can make you do other tests no?

[Tr1ll]

If you have the money, should've refused breathalyzer and ask for lawyer

I thought if you refused brethalyzer officers can make you do other tests no?
Refusing to provide a breath sample results in the same penalty as blowing over http://www.pssg.gov.bc.ca/osmv/shareddocs/immediate-roadside-prohibition-penalties.pdf

[Drow]

If keys are on your person and you are even "near" your car they will charge you.

Had a buddy drunk as fuck downtown, sitting with some chick on a curb beside his vehicle. Cops walked by, started asking what was going on, asked if the truck he was 10 feet away from was his, then breathalyzed. He got 30 day impound, 90 day license suspension and now awaiting a decision on the 1 year Interlock.

Supreme Court was to look at the laws again back in January but I didn't hear anything about the result.

backward laws.

[xXSupa]

That's actually pretty stupid. So we should charge everyone who carries a gun with Murder, because something COULD cause them to wanna shoot someone? complete bs.

[MeowMeow]

oh thank god my law teacher told me about this years back. I aint no lawyer and this is simply high school law course from like years abck so don't rely on me obviously. From what I remember, if you have the keys on you, that means there is an intention for driving under influence soon or later on.

Edmonton Alberta Legal Information on Impaired Driving and Licence Suspension (http://www.slsedmonton.com/criminal/impaired-driving/)

So whether you are sitting on passenger seat, driver's seat, or near by, if there's a reasonable suspicion that you may be able to control the vehicle, in motion or not, you can be charged for DUI as you still had the intention to operate the vehicle (or suspected intention). But, if the key is not in your possession, there's no way you can operate the vehicle therefore sleeping inside the car is okay as long as key cannot be found anywhere near you (passenger seat or your friend's pocket apparently doesn't count, because you can still start car and operate radio drunk from passenger side, law says in motion OR not therefore using radio also counts as DUI). From what I learned years ago, If you are inside the car but the key is stored on top of the wheel or inside the exhaust or something, they cannot prove your intention to operate the vehicle because it is not physically on you, and while you are inside an space, key is stored outside. Weird system, I never got it, but I avoid getting into car when I'm drunk period.

A friend of mine got charged for DUI few years back although he wasn't even in the car. Funny thing is, he didn't have keys on him so he could have disputed it. Unless that's the case, I dont think disputing this will work that well. Hope you can find a good lawyer.

[sekin67835]

http://www.revscene.net/forums/700116-reading-red-light-4.html#post8568965

According to spidey, there hasn't been any arrests if you are sleeping in the back seat.

[ilovebacon]

Such a money grabber. you don't want to pay for a cab so you sleep in the car so you won't be drinking and driving. But they can still charge you because you are in the car! It's like they want you to drive so you can get caught for it. What a world we live in.

[tmc22]

I learned the Boudreault case in one of my classes. From what I recall, you must show that you did not perform any acts of care or control (this can be something like starting your engine). However, I think Boudreault started his car to turn on the heater, so he argued that it was out of necessity. Here is another case that is similar to BoudreaultR. v. Toews (http://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/74/index.do)

[Matlock]

Just hearsay, but... My foreman told me that when he was younger he registered his truck as a motor home (needs cooking, etc). He got drunk and slept in the back. One time the police pulled up and knocked, he yelled out stating it was a registered motor home and they left him alone.

Good idea if you plan to get drunk lots. Not sure if this is true or still applicable.

[Habboy]

Im a bit biased, as, I have had a DUI in my past and lost my license etc....but that was 10 years ago. In just 10 years its gotten SO much more heavy as far as fines etc for offenders.
Dont drink and drive, and, get to know the laws like these, cause it aint gonna get easier on you if drinking and driving are linked in any way to you.
I had to take the Responsible driver program as a part of my journey to get my DL back. taught you to disassociate driving and drinking, it helps me to this day....I think you still have to take that course now when you get a DUI...just hope that that isnt the way YOU learn


http://biblicalpreaching.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/preacher2.jpg

[GGnoRE]

I thought if you refused brethalyzer officers can make you do other tests no?

Refusing to provide a breath sample results in the same penalty as blowing over http://www.pssg.gov.bc.ca/osmv/shareddocs/immediate-roadside-prohibition-penalties.pdf

Two cases of drinking and driving that I know personally. Details are omitted on purpose as I don't want to be misinterpreted as advocating DUI.

First person drank and drove and got caught. Refused to blow breathalyzer and asked for blood test and lawyer. Hands on wheel within in less than 2 month.

Second person got into an accident (serious accident as car was totalled) while drinking and driving. Fled the scene and contacted lawyer. Hands on wheel within a month.

You can't just read one line of law/regulation and expect it to be implemented in black and white. There are a lot of technicalities that lawyers can use as different angles.

[zulutango]

Just remember that it is the legal system..not the justice system

[6793026]

this is epic stupid. that's like saying "oh, u have a knife with you and the fact you COULD possibly use it and MAYBE in control of it, you can be charged with murder"
wtf...

[sebberry]

Just remember that it is the legal system..not the justice system

Hmm... legal.gc.ca doesn't exist. justice.gc.ca does, however.

[Tone Loc]

Such a money grabber. you don't want to pay for a cab so you sleep in the car so you won't be drinking and driving. But they can still charge you because you are in the car! It's like they want you to drive so you can get caught for it. What a world we live in.

Exactly this. I get that the police are just doing their job, but this is exactly why at the ripe age of 21 I very rarely (1-2x a year) go to clubs or bars and actually drink.

It's one big fucking money grab.

Can't drive to the club and drive home drunk (rightfully so).

TransLink stops their trains at around 1:30AM on weekends (why? it's not like there are drivers who need to rest).

Can't drive to the club and sleep in your car until the next day (so much wtf).

Which basically leaves you the option of waiting for 30-45 minutes outside for a shitty cab, driven by a usually unsafe driver, and paying through the nose. Gotta love it. Even when you are trying to do the right thing you get screwed over for it.

[zulutango]

Hmm... legal.gc.ca doesn't exist. justice.gc.ca does, however.

Maybe if I put " " marks around the words "legal" and "justice"...you would get it? :)

[meme405]

That's actually pretty stupid. So we should charge everyone who carries a gun with Murder, because something COULD cause them to wanna shoot someone? complete bs.

From what I remember, if you have the keys on you, that means there is an intention for driving under influence soon or later on.

this is epic stupid. that's like saying "oh, u have a knife with you and the fact you COULD possibly use it and MAYBE in control of it, you can be charged with murder"
wtf...

^^All of these.

I'll go one step further; I have a dick, so in theory it's possible for me to commit rape. So the police should just book me as a sex offender now, since apparently there is this imminent doom that I will rape someone.

[ninjatune]

Disconnect your battery, chock your wheels, sleep in the back. The main issue is care and control... Can't put the vehicle into motion, even without starting it = no chance of care and control mwahaa

no srsly take a cab.

[zulutango]

^^All of these.

I'll go one step further; I have a dick, so in theory it's possible for me to commit rape. So the police should just book me as a sex offender now, since apparently there is this imminent doom that I will rape someone.


Personally I'm in favour of castration...that would prevent you being a rape risk. Just sayin it worked for Lorena Bobbit.......:):fuckyea:

[ZN6]

LOL sitting near your car on a fuckin' curb and you get charged with impaired driving on the spot just because you have your keys on you? What if you sat in the window seat of a restaurant with the car parked out front 10ft away? Are cops going to actively come into the restaurant and question you then ticket you for DUI? That's a little too far.

I respect an officer who is trying to stop drunk driving and saving lives, but I don't support entrapment of any sort. The only way that it could be any worse is if the cop was like "Hey buddy, let's get you back in your car so you can take a seat and rest off the alcohol", then bam, instantly impounds your car because you are in it and writes you a ticket. That would be a dick move.

[sebberry]

Where precisely does "care and control" take effect?

If you're at home, drunk, and your car is in the driveway, does that qualify as "care and control" for the purpose of being charged?

If you're at home, drunk, and your car is in the garage you enter to get another beer out of the fridge, does that qualify?

If your car is parked in a parkade downtown, and you're drunk, and you are walking towards the parkade because you see an empty taxi you want to take home, does that qualify?

What if en route to get the taxi you stop at your car to grab your jacket, does that qualify?

Does being charge for impaired driving because you have "care and control" not require an element of intent to drive? If not, then you're guilty in all of the above situations simply because you had the ability to drive.

[underscore]

Can't drive to the club and sleep in your car until the next day (so much wtf).

Probably because of the number of people who think that because they slept for a couple hours they're good to drive.

[pinn3r]

Where precisely does "care and control" take effect?

If you're at home, drunk, and your car is in the driveway, does that qualify as "care and control" for the purpose of being charged?

If you're at home, drunk, and your car is in the garage you enter to get another beer out of the fridge, does that qualify?

If your car is parked in a parkade downtown, and you're drunk, and you are walking towards the parkade because you see an empty taxi you want to take home, does that qualify?

What if en route to get the taxi you stop at your car to grab your jacket, does that qualify?

Does being charge for impaired driving because you have "care and control" not require an element of intent to drive? If not, then you're guilty in all of the above situations simply because you had the ability to drive.

To my understanding, the accused who is found in the driver's seat of a motor vehicle shall be deemed to have had "care and control" of it, UNLESS s/he can establish that s/he was not in the seat for the purpose of setting the vehicle in motion. It's s. 258 of the Criminal Code.

An individual found in the driver's seat, impaired, will be presumptively guilty of impaired care and control.
The accused may rebut this presumption, though. S/he will have to call evidence to establish that s/he didn't pose a realistic and/or inherent risk of harm

Technically, it violates the presumption of innocence; but, the SCC has held that it's a "reasonable limitation" under section 1 of the Charter. The objective of protecting the public from drunk drivers is "sufficiently important to warrant overriding a constitutionally protected right."
I agree.

Therefore, if you turnt up too hard, don't get into the driver's seat :lol

source: my crim law notes

[brrrz]

It does not matter if you have the keys, if someone else has your keys, if you are sleeping in the drivers seat, passenger seat, backseat, trunk, or truck canopy. Including if your keys are in South Africa and you are in British Columbia. You can even get a road side prohibition if a police officer sees you walking to your car intoxicated, unlocking it, and reaching in to grab cash for a cab and not sitting in or starting the vehicle (most cases they won't but they have authority to).

Police do not have enough time on their hands to search for your keys if you say to them "I cant drive I dont even have my keys" What if they are hiding in the bush, car, etc. How often do you go hard then wake up still drunk. Most cases it take 8 hours sometimes longer for you to go from intoxicated to sober. Sleeping does not speed up the process.

Think of this situation: Police officer goes up to a car with a person sleeping in it. Person says they are not driving and just going to sleep it off. Person actually does sleep but wakes up at 6am. They are still intoxicated drive home and hit someone and kill them. Blood test comes back the person was still intoxicated. Imagine being the police officer who said it was ok for them to sleep in their car. Could you tell the parent "i thought they would have been ok when they woke up" How about the family who lost someone and everyone affected.

Obviously this is worst case scenario. But there has to be a no tolerance because with so much grey area there would be no where to draw the line.

Don't think about your car. Don't look at your car. Don't bring your car if you decide to drink. Or you end up with $4,000-$6,000 in fines impound and tow fees. Possible interlock. And 16 hours of mandatory responsible driver group counseling.


....trust me, its not worth it.

[tool001]

thats weird,


last time i asked cops to give me a breathalyser (told them i was going to drive, so just wanted to make sure my blood ach.level, this was with my keys in hand , right outside my car). before giving me a breathalyser he said, this is voluntary breathalyser and i wont be penalized if i blow over the limit.


so in my mind (and his) i was going to drive, (just i asked for breathalyser). nothing of sorts that i plan to break drinking and driving laws and car will be impounded or suspension if i blew over

ps. blew a 5.1 (not even a warn as the cop said)

[zulutango]

thats weird,


last time i asked cops to give me a breathalyser (told them i was going to drive, so just wanted to make sure my blood ach.level, this was with my keys in hand , right outside my car). before giving me a breathalyser he said, this is voluntary breathalyser and i wont be penalized if i blow over the limit.


so in my mind (and his) i was going to drive, (just i asked for breathalyser). nothing of sorts that i plan to break drinking and driving laws and car will be impounded or suspension if i blew over

ps. blew a 5.1 (not even a warn as the cop said)
I believe you must be mistaken about that reading. A 5.1 mg% bac would make you likely dead. A point 51 should get you a suspension.

[tool001]

^ sure. i stand corrected.. .51 then (as one of the 2 cops, mentioned it wasn't even a warn), however they said if u get into a accident .51 wont look good (which is obvious).

i then got into my car and drove off.


but my point , that u maybe missed
cop did mention i wouldn't be penalized if i failed the test,


also if u get warn or fail. does it show was warn or fail? or does it show exact bac?

i just read http://www.pssg.gov.bc.ca/osmv/road-safety/impaired-driving.htm

should have been a warn.. weird,

[underscore]

You wouldn't be penalized for failing, as you hadn't driven yet. But once you started to drive they could pull you over and make you blow with penalties. I'm assuming they didn't as they appreciated you checking prior to driving.

[zulutango]

That .51 reading could still be dangerous and illegal. It all depends on IF your BAC is going up as your body processes recently consumed booze...or going down as it gets rid of it. Personally, if you had that reading and I did the ASD, I would strongly suggest you not drive. Technically at .51 you are over the .50 level and into a 'warn ' situation.

[vitaminG]

Can't drive to the club and sleep in your car until the next day (so much wtf)

Are you saying if it was legal you would plan to go clubbing and sleep in your car after?

thats weird,


last time i asked cops to give me a breathalyser (told them i was going to drive, so just wanted to make sure my blood ach.level, this was with my keys in hand , right outside my car). before giving me a breathalyser he said, this is voluntary breathalyser and i wont be penalized if i blow over the limit.


so in my mind (and his) i was going to drive, (just i asked for breathalyser). nothing of sorts that i plan to break drinking and driving laws and car will be impounded or suspension if i blew over

ps. blew a 5.1 (not even a warn as the cop said)

If I'm not mistaken .05 bac is illegal, but the machines are calibrated to not show warn until .06

[mr_chin]

It does not matter if you have the keys, if someone else has your keys, if you are sleeping in the drivers seat, passenger seat, backseat, trunk, or truck canopy. Including if your keys are in South Africa and you are in British Columbia. You can even get a road side prohibition if a police officer sees you walking to your car intoxicated, unlocking it, and reaching in to grab cash for a cab and not sitting in or starting the vehicle (most cases they won't but they have authority to).

Police do not have enough time on their hands to search for your keys if you say to them "I cant drive I dont even have my keys" What if they are hiding in the bush, car, etc. How often do you go hard then wake up still drunk. Most cases it take 8 hours sometimes longer for you to go from intoxicated to sober. Sleeping does not speed up the process.

Think of this situation: Police officer goes up to a car with a person sleeping in it. Person says they are not driving and just going to sleep it off. Person actually does sleep but wakes up at 6am. They are still intoxicated drive home and hit someone and kill them. Blood test comes back the person was still intoxicated. Imagine being the police officer who said it was ok for them to sleep in their car. Could you tell the parent "i thought they would have been ok when they woke up" How about the family who lost someone and everyone affected.

Obviously this is worst case scenario. But there has to be a no tolerance because with so much grey area there would be no where to draw the line.

Don't think about your car. Don't look at your car. Don't bring your car if you decide to drink. Or you end up with $4,000-$6,000 in fines impound and tow fees. Possible interlock. And 16 hours of mandatory responsible driver group counseling.


....trust me, its not worth it.

These are some bad examples.

If you're found in the driver seat with the keys in reachable distance (even the trunk), you'll might be fined and but your car will be towed for sure.

If you're found in the driver seat and the keys are no where to be found, this is a grey area like you said. The cop will most likely tell you to get out and cab/bus home and give you a warning. A friend of mine was offered a ride home by a police officer from surrey once.

Another friend of mine was found sleeping in his car while we're drinking at a buddy's party. Neighbors called the cops for our loudness and he was found with his keys in possession. The cop was nice enough to come to the house and tell us he can't be sleeping in the car with his keys. This was a long time ago though when drinking and driving laws weren't as strict.

Bottom line is, if you're found sleeping in your car, with or without the keys, the consequence won't as bad as being pulled over while drunk.

[underscore]

If you're found in the driver seat and the keys are no where to be found, this is a grey area like you said.

I'd think sitting up front at all is a riskier choice in a manual than an automatic as you can cause the car to move without the keys.

[mr_chin]

I'd think sitting up front at all is a riskier choice in a manual than an automatic as you can cause the car to move without the keys.

Well, if you a person has the intention of rolling a vehicle down a hill, he would have his key in possession ready to drive instead.

The reason for sleeping in your vehicle without your keys where you purposely kept your keys out of your reach is so you have somewhere to sober up so you can cab/walk home after.

[dSpaceman]

If a mother leaves her 15 year old son in the car with the keys so he can listen to the radio while she runs into the store to grab some quick groceries, will the police be able to arrest the teenager for driving without a license, seeing how he CAN turn on the vehicle and drive away?

If the answer is yes, this is ridiculous.

[mr_chin]

Your example would need to fall under a new law or act.

If the MVA as a section for that, then yes it would be illegal. Luckily there isn't.

[brrrz]

These are some bad examples.

If you're found in the driver seat with the keys in reachable distance (even the trunk), you'll might be fined and but your car will be towed for sure.

If you're found in the driver seat and the keys are no where to be found, this is a grey area like you said. The cop will most likely tell you to get out and cab/bus home and give you a warning. A friend of mine was offered a ride home by a police officer from surrey once.

Another friend of mine was found sleeping in his car while we're drinking at a buddy's party. Neighbors called the cops for our loudness and he was found with his keys in possession. The cop was nice enough to come to the house and tell us he can't be sleeping in the car with his keys. This was a long time ago though when drinking and driving laws weren't as strict.

Bottom line is, if you're found sleeping in your car, with or without the keys, the consequence won't as bad as being pulled over while drunk.

These are not bad examples these have happened. If a police officer finds you sleeping in your car intoxicated and does not give you an IRP then consider yourself lucky and to have had a nice officer. This is the law and more times then not you will not be on the lucky side.

You are 100% wrong on your last comment. If you are found sleeping in your car the consequence are exactly the same as if you were driving. Don't tell people wrong information because they will believe it and get charged.