[StylinRed]

No survivors expected of the 150* passenger and crew flight on an Airbus 320

Germanwings airliner 4U 9525 crashes in French Alps - BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32030270)

A Germanwings Airbus A320 with 142 passengers and six crew crashes in the French Alps near Digne, aviation officials say, with no survivors likely.

An Airbus A320 airliner has crashed in the French Alps between Barcelonnette and Digne, French aviation officials and police have said.

The jet belongs to the German airline Germanwings, a subsidiary of Lufthansa.

The plane, flight 4U 9525, had been en route from Barcelona to Dusseldorf with 142 passengers and six crew on board.

French President Francois Hollande said: "The conditions of the accident, which have not yet been clarified, lead us to think there are no survivors."

Mr Hollande said the crash was a tragedy and called for solidarity with the victims, adding that the area was very difficult to access.

He said he would be speaking shortly with German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

The plane issued a distress call at 10:47 (09:47 GMT), according to sources quoted by AFP news agency.

Search-and-rescue teams are headed to the crash site at Meolans-Revels, said regional council head Eric Ciotti.

French Prime Minister Manuel Valls said he had sent Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve to the scene and a ministerial crisis cell to co-ordinate the incident had been set up.

The interior ministry said debris had been located at an altitude of 2,000m (6,500ft).

Interior ministry spokesman Pierre-Henry Brandet told BFM TV that it would be "an extremely long and extremely difficult'' search-and-rescue operation because of the remoteness.

Lufthansa chief executive Carsten Spohr tweeted: "We do not yet know what has happened to flight 4U 9525. My deepest sympathy goes to the families and friends of our passengers and crew.

"If our fears are confirmed, this is a dark day for Lufthansa. We hope to find survivors."

The Airbus A320 is single-aisle passenger jet popular for short- and medium-haul flights.


Analysis: Nigel Cassidy, BBC's Europe business reporter

Although it began its life as an independent low-cost carrier, Germanwings is wholly owned by its parent Lufthansa.

It operates increasing numbers of the group's point-to-point short-haul routes and takes many passengers from German cities to Mediterranean sunspots.

The airline has an excellent safety record with no previously reported accidents. The average age of its Airbus fleet is just over nine years old, though flight 4U 9525 was a 24-year-old A320.

The plan was to phase out the Germanwings brand and replace it with Eurowings. There has been a longstanding dispute with the Vereinigung Cockpit union over early retirement. Pilots went on strike for three days around this time last year.



Germanwings airliner 4U 9525 crashes in French Alps - BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32030270)


*news is now reporting 150 people

[Jmac]

Even though they say it's unlikely, I hope they find some survivors.

Tragic :(

[hud 91gt]

RIP.

Another Bus, scary.

[SpartanAir]

Very sad. Too bad about the location too. Likely helicopter only access.

I took at least one flight on GermanWings, I thought they were great.

RIP

[adambomb]

French local MP says 'black box' has been found from #Germanwings crash in Alps #cbc


Susan Ormiston Verified account
@OrmistonOnline
CBC Senior Correspondent

:\ :crybaby:

[Mr.HappySilp]

German Airbus A320 plane crashes in French Alps | World news | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/24/german-a320-airbus-plane-crashes-french-alps?CMP=share_btn_fb)

[6o4__boi]

Sad news...RIP.


fuck that other thread made my heart skip a beat for a second there.
My mom's coming back from overseas today and i'm tracking her flight...i thought there was another plane crash or something.

[boostfever]

RIP :(

[StylinRed]

It is a shock every time something like this happens :/

the news is reporting 150 people on the flight now (not 148) 16 of whom are children on an education exchange

Germanwings plane 4U 9525 crashes in French Alps - no survivors - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32030270)

[westopher]

Does anyone know hard facts about if commercial airliners going down is actually more common lately? Or are we just more aware of it. Its a very scary thing to think about. Such helplessness for those on board. A sad and terrifying way to spend your final moments.

[snowball]

Does anyone know hard facts about if commercial airliners going down is actually more common lately? Or are we just more aware of it. Its a very scary thing to think about. Such helplessness for those on board. A sad and terrifying way to spend your final moments.

The question gets asked all the time, even 10 years ago.

I would say it's been about the same.

List of accidents and incidents involving commercial aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_commerci al_aircraft)

[yray]

inb4 it gets blamed on pitot tubes and alpha prot

[josel_atr]

zero survivors. damn rip

[hud 91gt]

Has it been confirmed there are no survivors?

People are bloody tough sometimes, i'm still amazed 3 (about 15% actually, as there was only ~20 onboard) people survived this disaster a few years ago.

http://i.cbc.ca/1.1886640.1381376474!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_460/hi-resolute-crash-01167037.jpg

[JD¹³]

Loss of contact, no distress call, no attempt to control the aircraft... sounds like this crash could be due to hypoxia. At that altitude it would take a matter of seconds for the occupants to lose functional consciousness.

[multicartual]

I'll fly Boeing, thanks!

[hud 91gt]

Loss of contact, no distress call, no attempt to control the aircraft... sounds like this crash could be due to hypoxia. At that altitude it would take a matter of seconds for the occupants to lose functional consciousness.

I could be completely wrong, but I had read they did put out a distress call?

The fairly slow decent ~3500fpm, doesn't exactly scream out of control aircraft breakup. So either a hijacking or hypoxic event are both plausible causes.



EDIT: It must have been one of the earlier articles that stated they did send out a distress call. Where in fact the newer articles are stating it was the french that did so. Definitely possible then.

[boostfever]

I'll fly Boeing, thanks!

do it.

Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_370)

[StylinRed]

I could be completely wrong, but I had read they did put out a distress call?

The fairly slow decent ~3500fpm, doesn't exactly scream out of control aircraft breakup. So either a hijacking or hypoxic event are both plausible causes.



EDIT: It must have been one of the earlier articles that stated they did send out a distress call. Where in fact the newer articles are stating it was the french that did so. Definitely possible then.

yes in the morning when i first made the thread it was reported that the captain had made a distress call shortly before the crash but now it's being reported otherwise

[Eatman]

FRANCE (NEWS1130) – Investigators trying to determine what caused the crash of Germanwings Flight 9525 have made a startling discovery in an audio recording, according to a New York Times report: One of the plane’s pilots was locked out of the cockpit before the crash.

“You can hear he is trying to smash the door down,” a senior military official involved in the investigation told the newspaper, describing audio from the cockpit voice recorder, one of the plane’s black boxes.

“We don’t know yet the reason why one of the guys went out,” the official said, according to the Times’ report. “But what is sure is that at the very end of the flight, the other pilot is alone and does not open the door.”

The Times’ report is a “terribly shocking revelation,” CNN aviation analyst Peter Goelz said. But he and other experts cautioned that it’s still unclear what could have been going on inside the cockpit.

Possibilities range from a medical emergency to something more nefarious, CNN aviation correspondent Richard Quest said.

French authorities revealed Wednesday that they’d been able to access audio from the recorder, even though its external casing was damaged.

Finding the plane’s second black box will also be critical to understanding the mystery of what went on inside the jet.

That box, the flight data recorder, hasn’t been found yet, but Lufthansa CEO Carsten Spohr said Wednesday that there’s a high probability it will be.

Investigators scoured dangerous terrain in the French Alps as they searched for clues in the wreckage.

Workers dropped to the crash site from helicopters and had to be tied together because the steep area in the mountains is so treacherous, said Remi Jouty, head of the BEA, the French aviation investigative arm leading the probe.

Pilot locked out of cockpit before plane crash in France: report | News1130 (http://www.news1130.com/2015/03/25/pilot-locked-out-of-cockpit-before-plane-crash-in-france-report/)


awww man, this is eerie, pilot was locked out of the cockpit and tried to smash the door down. Co-pilot did not open the door

[Harvey Specter]

Could be murder-suicide like the Egyptian flight a few years back?

[Manic!]

So who's smart idea was it to lock cockpit doors?

Press Release ? FAA Sets New Standards for Cockpit Doors (http://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=5470)

[IINur]

Could be murder-suicide like the Egyptian flight a few years back?

Could be a health issue I guess, like a heart attack.

[EuterVanWasser]

^ Jeeze, I dunno why they would do that..

http://resources0.news.com.au/images/2013/09/11/1226717/184396-4bf31d46-1aa9-11e3-b47b-9923c5873ce4.jpg

In all seriousness though, this is tragic if the pilot left inside suffered a medical emergency or something, and the 2nd pilot could not get back in.

[StylinRed]

Wow did not expect that, that makes the situation all the more tragic...which, as had been noted already, brings to question the need of locking the cockpit doors. Its never seemed like a good idea, especially when there is already armed security on board.

What if both pilots were incapacitaed? and there was 1 or more passengers/security capable of flying the plane? They'd be unable to :( and let's face it more airliners crash than terrorist takeovers especially now with aforementioned security

[IINur]

Apparently you can open the cockpit door via code, however the person inside can deny access...so
Also there should be a flight attendant inside, while one of the pilots is out. Too many questions

[multicartual]

Horrific.

[underscore]

Horrible to hear, hopefully they can sort this out more quickly that other recent aviation tragedies.

[Spoon]

In this day and age. Is it going to be that much more money or work to include a video of the cockpit inside the black box?

[StylinRed]

Apparently you can open the cockpit door via code, however the person inside can deny access...so
Also there should be a flight attendant inside, while one of the pilots is out. Too many questions

I just heard on the BBC that the captain outside enters a code and the captain inside then chooses to unlock it (confirmation code basically)

BUT there is also an override on the outside to get inside if there's an emergency but the authorities/media aren't letting it known how this is done for obvious reason

interesting

[N.V.M.]

reports are now saying the co-pilot crashed the plane deliberately. must have locked the captain out, and did his thing.

[Harvey Specter]

If the pilot in the cockpit turns the switch to "lock" than there's basically no way of getting into the cockpit even with a code. Usually the switch is on the "norm" setting or can be moved to "unlock".

In the US when one pilot has to leave the cockpit, a flight attendant must replace him/her because under US regulations there has to be two people in the cockpit at all times to basically prevent what happen in this tragedy. Lufthansa obviously didn't have this policy.

[Eatman]

reports are now saying the co-pilot crashed the plane deliberately. must have locked the captain out, and did his thing.

here's a link that backs that up.
Germanwings crash: 'co-pilot's actions leave us speechless,' says airline ? live updates | World news | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/mar/26/germanwings-plane-crash-investigation-press-conference-live-updates-4u9525)

[underscore]

In this day and age. Is it going to be that much more money or work to include a video of the cockpit inside the black box?

I'm not sure how the black box stores audio, but video is a shitload more information to be storing than just audio. Seeing how good groups like the TSA are at sorting out the cause of a crash based on just audio (I think there's only 1 unsolved accident in the TSA's history?) it seems unnecessary.

[yray]

https://youtu.be/QSC_KLmCBWw

now y'all know how to enter the cockpit

[hud 91gt]

Wow did not expect that, that makes the situation all the more tragic...which, as had been noted already, brings to question the need of locking the cockpit doors. Its never seemed like a good idea, especially when there is already armed security on board.


There isn't always armed security onboard. In fact, there generally is not security on board, but as a passenger you will never know when.



Tragic to say the least. I couldn't imagine the feeling of being locked, or the passengers watching the captain not being able to access the cockpit. But as the video says, the shouts were not heard until close to impact. Awful.

[hud 91gt]

I just heard on the BBC that the captain outside enters a code and the captain inside then chooses to unlock it (confirmation code basically)

BUT there is also an override on the outside to get inside if there's an emergency but the authorities/media aren't letting it known how this is done for obvious reason

interesting
There is multiple codes, which give different notifications in the flight deck. One particular code will unlock the door after a period of time has passed without a "deny" from the cockpit. This would allow access in the case of pilot unconsciousness while the other is in the back.

As for an override, i'm not aware of one. I'm sure maintenance has this ability, but the crew certainly does not know it.

[pastarocket]

This is horrific! Any info. on this 28 year old pilot's background?

-had the scary thought of what happens if a pilot gets air rage, or suffers mental health issues that can lead to this sort of tragedy.

Does anyone know if airlines require pilots to undergo psychiatric evalutions/mental health checkups during their time of employment?

[InvisibleSoul]

He basically murdered almost as many people as Timothy McVeigh did in the Oklahoma City bombing.

[dachinesedude]

Does anyone know if airlines require pilots to undergo psychiatric evalutions/mental health checkups during their time of employment?

even if he passes, it doesnt predict what will happen in his life in the future

maybe his gf dumped him, maybe he owes money

if anything, they should have periodic psychiatric checkups

[multicartual]

He basically murdered almost as many people as Timothy McVeigh did in the Oklahoma City bombing.


Fuck I have a recurring nightmare about being on an airplane and crashing into a rocky, wooded area


What a horrific event, hope the victims' families find some peace in visiting the site and supporting each other.

[Hehe]

The US requirement (now Canada too as of today) of having 2 persons at all times in the cockpit made a lot of sense... too bad other places didn't follow until this tragedy.

The loophole here however is the designated person to enter the cockpit when one of the pilots needs to leave. It should be made always a random selection among several crew members to avoid people hacking this method.

[StylinRed]

Uh Oh, the co-pilots name is Andreas Lubitz queue the speculation that he's a jewish terrorist...oh wait..

Okay queue CiC in 3, 2, 1..

[hud 91gt]

If someone has a death wish/terrorist plan. I highly doubt a Flight attendant in the cockpit is going to stop anything. But I understand why they have to implement the rule for the medias sake.

[Spoon]

At some point, you'll just have to trust that not everyone's a psycho. Unless you board yourself up and live the hermit life, anyone walking past you can have the potential to take your life. You can't live your life if you keep thinking that way.

There's no fail-safe approach you can take simply because the advantage always goes to the person who's motivated to cause harm.

[underscore]

If someone has a death wish/terrorist plan. I highly doubt a Flight attendant in the cockpit is going to stop anything. But I understand why they have to implement the rule for the medias sake.

If someone really, really wants to put a plane into the ground I'm not sure how much even a second pilot in there can do to stop them.

[InvisibleSoul]

If someone has a death wish/terrorist plan. I highly doubt a Flight attendant in the cockpit is going to stop anything. But I understand why they have to implement the rule for the medias sake.

I was thinking the same initially, but then I realized that maybe it would help.
The bad pilot can't steer the plane into the ground AND at the same time stop the flight attendant from opening the cockpit door to allow the other pilot and/or passengers from storming in to overpower him.

Sure, maybe the bad pilot can kill the flight attendant first... but at least it's one additional step he would need to do.

[hud 91gt]

Airplanes have autopilots and fly perfectly well for hours on their own. As I said previously a single person is not going to stop someone with a plan. Yes it is an extra step. That is true. It may stop a gruesome attack with the safety axe in the flight deck, but it doesn't stop them from using the aircraft to their advantage. You have to remember, a flight attendant is not strapped in. They could could easily be knocked out with a couple quick maneuvers with the flight controls. Its for the media, so the companies won't be under fire when they aren't backing the same silly procedures as another airline. Personal opinion at least.

[CP.AR]

In my airline our cabin crew are trained to read checklists in case something happens while the other guy is taking a toilet break. So yes, we always have at least two people in the cockpit for a reason

[Hondaracer]

Lufthansa's wild ride

Fuck that's like my worst nightmare :s

[westopher]

If someone has a death wish/terrorist plan. I highly doubt a Flight attendant in the cockpit is going to stop anything. But I understand why they have to implement the rule for the medias sake.
A 1 in 100 chance that someone can stop them though is better than a 0 in 100 chance. Its still the right move. I mean, this isn't going to become a common occurrence.

[hud 91gt]

Logical thinking, but I think Spoon nailed it on the head by saying you just have to trust them.


FYI Canada's major airline interview process has a major psychiatric portion and hopefully can detect and minimize hiring individuals with mental illness. Detecting, and dealing with mental issues would have much more impact then implementing procedures which open their own can of worms for other situations.

It's disgustingly distrurbing incident that hopefully never happens again. Luckily it generally takes incidents like these to change regulations. Sometimes knee jerk reactions, but also thought out processes which will really help in the future. Whether it is new flight deck security procedures, or medical analysis of flight crew. We may be safer in the air from now on then we already are.

[underscore]

A 1 in 100 chance that someone can stop them though is better than a 0 in 100 chance. Its still the right move. I mean, this isn't going to become a common occurrence.

Only if it doesn't create another risk, you have to keep in mind this is an extremely uncommon thing, I'm only aware of one of pilot that tried to commit suicide by crashing a passenger plane. Personally I think better monitoring of a pilots mental health would be more useful than requiring flight attendants enter the cabin, as you then need to clear all your flight attendants as well.

[InvisibleSoul]

Only if it doesn't create another risk, you have to keep in mind this is an extremely uncommon thing, I'm only aware of one of pilot that tried to commit suicide by crashing a passenger plane. Personally I think better monitoring of a pilots mental health would be more useful than requiring flight attendants enter the cabin, as you then need to clear all your flight attendants as well.

That's actually a valid point.

What if it's the flight attendant that's mentally unstable? The flight attendant can murder the one remaining pilot, lock the cockpit, and and crash the plane.

[hud 91gt]

Keep Calm! | QF32 (http://qf32.aero/2015/03/28/keep-calm/)


I didn't actually completely read this entire article, but it points out some good responses for a majority of the public who really don't understand (And reasonably so) the concepts of the airline industry and makes some good remarks about fear, and lack of understanding. If you read my comments during this thread for the average person they may sound irresponsible. But if you realistically break down the logistics of flying, the statistics of avoidable accidents it will make a lot more sense.