[pengu]

The rising cost of home ownership in Metro Vancouver could see a migration of highly mobile millennials away from the region, a report released by Vancity credit union suggests.

The report argues that the continued rise in the area's housing market is not being mitigated by salaries, leaving a growing affordability gap for the majority of professions.

Identifying owning their own home as a goal for up to 93 per cent of millennials (those born between 1980 and 2000), Vancity predicts a mass migration away from Metro Vancouver, and a subsequent labour crisis for the area.

$78K salary now required

Currently, on average, a family household income needs to be $123,000 (in a dual-income household, a salary of $78,088 each) to maintain the average Metro Vancouver mortgage, far higher than many professionals in much-needed occupations make.

And, with house prices projected to rise 4.87 per cent year-on-year, and salaries growing between 0.6 and 3.2 per cent year-on-year, the majority of those working in what Vancity regards as 'in-demand' jobs, will be priced out of the housing market, with even the best-paying jobs unable to keep up.

Letting go of the dream?

"By 2025, 85 of 88 in-demand jobs will be unable to afford to live in Metro Vancouver," the report predicts.

"Only those individuals working as senior business managers, senior construction managers and engineering managers will be able to maintain affordable housing."

That effectively leaves those in other "in-demand' and essential professions — health workers, emergency service workers, educators and even lawyers — unable to afford the average mortgage.
Vancouver real estate prices pushing millennials to leave city: report - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-real-estate-prices-pushing-millennials-to-leave-city-report-1.3082426)

Impressive..

[meowjinboo]

no shit? I already had an exit plan when I was 25.

[murd0c]

I honestly hope that happens... Serve's the city right for not doing a thing with all of the mainlanders fucking up the housing market

[pengu]

I'm thinking Ontario is going to be the place to be, now that the oil and gas sector in bust mode and B.C. is way to fucking expensive to live in.

[Hehe]

Van's economy cannot sustain a RE fuelled economy. Its density is too low and service industry can only pay so much.

I moved back because I had the luxury of choices and I see living in Van as a luxury I can afford down the road and better for my family. Although with wife and son now in SoCal most of the time and wife considering a great paying job offer there as well as green card, we are really considering leaving Canada behind us.

Furthermore, the brain drain of Vancouver is incredible. Out of all the great (as in being very good at what they do in their work) people I've met during my 10+years in BC, I think only 1 remained there since he's in the film industry. But he's being poached constantly of moving to LA. So much so that he told me that let's just all move to LA so we'd have company.

Vancouver is nice and all, but there is little future for people who really wants to make it big in their career. Finance? Toronto. IT? Silicon Valley, Seattle or Waterloo, ON. Industrial? Definitely Ontario. Gov't? Ottawa. and so on...

There is no industry in Vancouver that can keep the brilliant minds in town or they would have to settle for lesser offers. (with exception to RE I guess) So instead, we have some hippie bike-riding lover mayor that's always testing the limit of its residents on their tolerance of being exploited.

I have said it before and I will say it again... if you want to make it big, leave Vancouver and don't look back.

[buhdeh]

Yup, I already left. Got a job at a professional services firm in Toronto and they pay me 15k more than I made in Vancouver while opening doors I never would have seen in Vancouver. The local government seems to have no issues with the direction the city's heading so too bad. Like I said in the Vancouver RE thread, hope you guys enjoy being a city that hinges its economy on restaurants and clothing stores targeted to mainlanders while the "smart" guys end up working at satellite offices in Vancouver doing reject work that head offices don't want to waste their time with.

[GS8]

To be blunt...

I don't get this city. What exactly is its identity? To me, it just feels like a tryhard world class city. One that seems to rely more on lifestyle and trend chasing than legitimate identity.

So we have mountains, trees, some water. Ok, now what? Thank you nature? Thank you geography? Now I just see greenspace being eliminated for generic plazas / strip malls and a race for who can build the tallest tower in Downtown. Also, does every career path chosen in post-secondary inevitably lead to a service job?

Where's the heart of this city? I'm not fucking seeing it.

Sometimes I wonder who in this city is a wealthy immigrant and who is racking up surreal amounts of debt to keep up with the ethnic Joneses...

Or maybe I'm completely wrong in my observations

[Manic!]

I'm thinking Ontario is going to be the place to be, now that the oil and gas sector in bust mode and B.C. is way to fucking expensive to live in.

B.C. is not to expensive to live in just Vancouver and other parts of the mainland are.

[Akinari]

Growing up in Vancouver, I witnessed the whole transition (growth?) of the city, mostly the infinite increase of immigration from mainland China and how it pretty much entirely destroyed any chance of locals (millennials) from being able to afford anything feasible. I myself am eyeing the U.S. in hopes of future employment once finished with school in a year or two. Vancouver just really has nothing to offer aside from ridiculous housing prices driven up by unstoppable mainland China bidding wars and other foreigners looking to park their money in a safe haven such as Vancouver. It's hopeless. I like this city but it's really got no future for most.

[Jmac]

B.C. is not to expensive to live in just Vancouver and other parts of the mainland are.
So ... the part where 75% of BC's residents live?

Also note, Greater Victoria (10% of BC's population) isn't exactly cheap, either, and is a complete fucking mess when it comes to local governments.

[hypediss]

in other news sky is blue and canada, bc, vancouver is still run by a bunch of half wits

[vudooca]

I already left like 2 months ago... Now Vancouver has turned into just a vacation destination.

[Tone Loc]

Well, duh.

That's kinda what happens when you, as a spineless government, bend over and worship the Holy Trinity of real estate agents, foreign investors, and housing developers without giving a single fuck to the middle class and the future generation of young people.

Did anyone REALLY think that an average housing price of $1 million dollars was sustainable in the long run? Especially considering Vancouver is no Silicon Valley in terms of industry, most of the jobs out here are in the service sector which pays nowhere near what is required to make a living (something like $22/hour, I heard this on the radio the other day) in the city.

Absolutely fucking not. Everyone KNEW, they just didn't CARE. Exemplified by none other than Krusty Clark, who manages to cover both her eyes and ears and ignore what many countries (such as Australia, Singapore, the US, etc.) are doing in order to curb excessive foreign ownership.

And now the price will be paid very dearly, as the next generation of people who actually have the skillset and credentials to afford Vancouver living realize they can have a much better lifestyle literally anywhere else in the country. Basically, the only people left - and obviously this is an extreme case - will be low-pay, low-skill service industry workers and wealthy foreign investors...

[zilley]

can we please send all the mainlanders back.

[Hondaracer]

What exactly are people looking for?

4000 sq foot houses for 125k? move to florida.

Honestly, like every single fucking world class city in the world is expensive, this isnt exclusive to Vancouver, people just like to beat this topic into the grave. When I was in florence last year you were looking at 300,000 EURO's for a fucking 900 sq foot 45 year old apartment within the "core" of the city. In a place where there is litterally no work for anyone prices are still "high"

In terms of the brain drain and career progression, sure. But you've got your head in the clouds if you think there are other options in major cities that are "more affordable" than here.

Watch house hunters, and other home buying shows. 680-900,000K is getting you a 2600sq foot in fucking Sacramento.

Want to live in a shit place? cool, go move there and pay "affordable prices"

I'll stick around here and live the life I enjoy, buy a residence i can afford, and make my moves accordingly. Dont go on the fucking news with your 3 kids in hand and shitty 45k/year job and cry that you cant afford to live in East Van, because you cant.

[underscore]

So ... the part where 75% of BC's residents live?

Also note, Greater Victoria (10% of BC's population) isn't exactly cheap, either, and is a complete fucking mess when it comes to local governments.

Where are you getting 75? It's more like 50-60.

Either way, as I'm from Kelowna all I can say is thanks for making us look less overpriced than we are.

[Jmac]

Where are you getting 75? It's more like 50-60.

Either way, as I'm from Kelowna all I can say is thanks for making us look less overpriced than we are.
I admit it was just a number I pulled out of my ass figuring the lower mainland population was around 3 million (actually 2.6 million) and the population of BC was around 4 million (actually 4.4 million). Not really that far off.

You're right, though, it's just shy of 60%. Still a substantial number.

Greater Victoria is 8% while I'm actually looking up numbers on Statistics Canada.

[Harvey Specter]

No idea what you're going to get in Vancouver even if you make $123,000 combined. You still need a huge down payment and most "average" homes are well over a million. Hell, tear downs in some areas are going for $1.3 million+. Unless you have wealthy parents or have a side business, no way you're going to be able to live in this city by working 9-5. because those days are gone.

[iEatClams]

Absolutely fucking not. Everyone KNEW, they just didn't CARE. Exemplified by none other than Krusty Clark, who manages to cover both her eyes and ears and ignore what many countries (such as Australia, Singapore, the US, etc.) are doing in order to curb excessive foreign ownership.



well - she doesn't even want to collect the data on how many are here, and has flat out said no to taxing foreigners. Then again, property transfer tax collected stands at around $800 million a year and the tax is projected to be close to $1 Billion dollars a year going forward for the BC government.

It's a have and have not city. You bought a detached house 5+ years ago in Vancouver, great! you won the lottery - your house will appreciate and will get $1-5 million dollars, what a regular person would make their WHOLE LIFETIME! Bring on those foreigners!

While the rest of us are screwed.

[iEatClams]

here's the cheapest house in vancouver for sale . Only $628,000

http://www.patsyhui.com/photos/ve-taunton-5233-main.jpg

PatsyHui.com: Your Real Estate Expert (http://www.patsyhui.com/display.php?restype=res1&aid=bc179eb1045514b9ca57adafeae6385c)

Has a huge right of way which means they really can't build much if it ever burns down.
Also, I believe it's a sewer line underneath.

It will probably sell for above asking. LOL

Not many other houses under $1 million right now. Mostly tear downs on busy streets.

[Hehe]

What exactly are people looking for?

....fucking Sacramento...



FYI, the metro Sacramento has 2.2M in population, just slightly under GVR of 2.5M.

I think what people are looking is what does all this lead us, the residents to?

Lower mainland has no planning to attract any industry, while "shit" places like Dallas, Houston are all pushing hard to get all sort of industries (IT, automaker, batteries... etc) to invest there by granting incentives.

Those future planings attract not just people, but more and more investments to their cities.

Vancouver, OTOH, thinks it is ok to just have crazy RE prices with nothing much else going on. The first thing that comes to people mind when I told them that I came from Vancouver in Toronto was "RE prices are crazy there". And that's it. They don't see it as anything else.

And why is the gov't not doing anything? Well, gov't has incentive to keep the RE inflated. After all, the major contribution to their budget comes from property taxes, which, the higher they are valued, the higher the taxes. And current homeowners in Van of course have their best interest to keep their home value high so they can basically have a fucking ATM that loads itself up of money.

So, what do all these bring us? We have all the talented professionals leaving the cities, with no investments for industries to actually bring value to its residents and sky-high RE prices that drive even more people away as it's simply impossible to afford. The day the RE bubble burst, it's going to be a disaster for locals where they would only have 2 choices: suck it up and pay or leave.

Think Vancouver as Detroit, but substituting RE with auto-making, and you can see what can happen when a place is too overly dependent on a single industry.

So they key is to DIVERSIFY your economy, when our gov't is doing the opposite since it relies on it too much and residents would never vote to anyone that want to jeopardize their current lifestyle, even if it's for a greater future.

[adambomb]

We're Canadian! OpieOP

Our "affordable" major metropolis' will be cities like Regina, Thunder Bay or Gatineau :fuckthatshit:

[punkwax]

Vancouver is late to the party, but foreign money pushing locals out of great places to live is nothing new. This has happened in every single major city since the dawn of time. As a result, there are a lot more expensive places to live than here.

Vancouver is an appealing place to live. Healthcare, best weather in Canada, ocean, mountains, sports, dining, entertainment.. the list goes on and on.

Can't afford Vancouver proper? Try the burbs. I love my area. Just know that no matter where you go, you'll find something to bitch about there. You're a Vancouverite afterall :lol

[rsx]

Vancouver isn't that expensive to live in. I left 3 years ago for more money, but my cost of living is insane. Especially in Asia. Cars are more expensive, condos, electricity, even food.
"Cheap food" in Vancouver is decent, "cheap food" in a 3rd world country is hepatitis and toe-nail clippings.
Enjoy where you guys are at, it's not that bad. If you can't afford the core, push out further. The traffic isn't bad either. If I were to go back I'd live in a large tract of land and just commute. An hour and a half commute is a cake walk nowadays.

[Traum]

Our "affordable" major metropolis' will be cities like Regina, Thunder Bay or Gatineau :fuckthatshit:
Gatineau? :fuckthatshit:

Don't get me wrong. I love Gatineau Park, and I love Ottawa. But there is no way in hell I'd be living on the Quebec side of Ottawa...

[iEatClams]

Vancouver is late to the party, but foreign money pushing locals out of great places to live is nothing new. This has happened in every single major city since the dawn of time. As a result, there are a lot more expensive places to live than here.

Vancouver is an appealing place to live. Healthcare, best weather in Canada, ocean, mountains, sports, dining, entertainment.. the list goes on and on.

Can't afford Vancouver proper? Try the burbs. I love my area. Just know that no matter where you go, you'll find something to bitch about there. You're a Vancouverite afterall :lol


Too many people saying we are the top city - comparing ourselves to Paris / Tokyo / NY etc. fuck we are no where near those places. Yes we have awesome weather here in the summer. It rains for 8 months of the year. We have clean air and mountains etc. but we don't have any industries. We are closest in similarity to seattle or portland. yet they have better industries than us.


HOW “WORLD CLASS” IS VANCOUVER?

One of the favourite justifications for high housing prices in Vancouver is, “we’re cheap compared to other world-class cities like Paris, Tokyo, London, New York, etc.”. In fact, Housing Minister Rich Coleman (following up on his comments from last week) gave this response a few days ago when asked about foreign ownership in Vancouver.

“I believe that the market place adjusts. If you notice over the years, it has fluctuations up and fluctuations down. If you look at the mean cost of housing across British Columbia and you compare it to other major cities worldwide, the reason it is attractive internationally is because it’s actually pretty reasonable compared to other cities like London, Singapore, Tokyo”

But is Vancouver really comparable to those cities?

Population

How does Vancouver compare to those other cities when it comes to metropolitan area population?

Tokyo: 34,607,069
New York: 20,092,883
London: 13,879,757
Paris: 11,978,363
Western Canada: 10,394,228 (west of Ontario)
Pittsburgh: 2,356,285
Vancouver: 2,313,328
Portland: 2,226,009
When it comes to population, Vancouver is not even close to the usual comparison cities. In fact, Tokyo, New York, London and Paris all have higher populations than Western Canada. On the list of North American Metropolitan Areas, Vancouver ranks 35th — right between Pittsburgh and Portland.

World City Rankings

The Globalization and World Cities Research Network has a methodology for ranking world cities. In their most recent analysis, the top four cities were: London, New York, Hong Kong and Paris. Vancouver ranks more than 60 places lower, most comparable to: Caracas, Riyadh, Chennai and Manchester.

A.T. Kearney compiles a Global Cities Index (GCI), which “examines a comprehensive list of 84 cities on every continent, measuring how globally engaged they are across 26 metrics in five dimensions: business activity, human capital, information exchange, cultural experience, and political engagement”. The usual comparison cities are all at the top. Vancouver ranked 48th.


https://vancouverflippersintrouble.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/global-cites-top-20.png

Global Cites Top 20
The 3 most visited museums in the world are in Paris, New York and London. The Vancouver art gallery didn’t make the top 100.

Of the four major cross-border North American sports leagues (MLB, NBA, NHL, MLS), Vancouver has 2 teams and 0 championships. New York has 8 teams and 41 championships. Vancouver briefly had an NBA franchise, but lost it to fellow world-class city Memphis, Tennessee.

New York has Broadway, London has the West End, Vancouver has Granville Street?

Reasonable Comparisons

Vancouver is simply not in the same league as the truly world-class cities with which it is often compared. Two much more comparable cities are Portland and Seattle (similar populations, weather, natural beauty, etc.). So, how do these three cities compare when it comes to median house prices?

Vancouver: $704,800 CAD
Seattle: $359,100 USD
Portland: $291,300 USD
Sure, Vancouver is cheaper than truly world-class cities. But compared to similar cities, it is extremely overpriced.

[godwin]

For those who had never lived in the Bay area. Most of the people who earn less often commute from way in the valley. I chatted with an office cleaner once who commuted 3 hours each way to work, come in at night and basically clean for a few companies, do day job go home, repeat and rinse. I also know people commute from Squamish, Abbotsford or even Chillwack etc to Vancouver or Surrey for work.. same thing.

You can say Vancouver doesn't have enough jobs.. but we have quite a few technical places in geology (Golders), engineering (Amec etc) etc. and the new LNG planning places.. yes they are hurting from fall out from Ab but they are still hiring. I think it also reflects how the choice of schooling affects your life. Applied science and trades you should do okay.. Arts? not so much.

[Tone Loc]

It's a have and have not city. You bought a detached house 5+ years ago in Vancouver, great! you won the lottery - your house will appreciate and will get $1-5 million dollars, what a regular person would make their WHOLE LIFETIME! Bring on those foreigners!

While the rest of us are screwed.

I understand Clark's logic that government intervention in the housing market to drive down prices would "screw over" a lot of actual Canadian citizens who bought homes (and live in them, gasp) in the GVRD in the last 10 or so years... but the Liberals need to look at the bigger future.

Basically it comes down to the choice of whether to screw over the group of people who bought into the market, or the bulk of the Lower Mainland's future as an economic whole (with respect to industry and the luring of PROFESSIONAL jobs (none of this low wage service industry crap)).

The reason many large companies do not establish HQ's or even branches in Vancouver is due to the cost of living... why would anyone want to relocate from anywhere in Canada to make the same amount of money which goes half as far? Inversely, why would any Vancouverite work at said company, realize the same company has an office out East that pays the same but with a much lower cost of living, and not move? Case in point, I have a buddy who is applying for federal law enforcement and he says that the majority of his fellow classmates who don't have ties in the Lower Mainland are super sketched about being sent here because their money (roughly $60k/year starting, moving up to $80k/year after X amount of years) doesn't get them very far.

The only people who aren't moving are those who are fortunate enough to be helped by their parents and/or are fortunate/hardworking/smart/skilled enough to land a job that allows the city to be liveable for them and their expectations regarding quality of life. And even then, the numbers of both groups of people will dwindle every generation if the housing issue is not fixed.

Ironically, if laws and sanctions on foreign ownership came about 10 or so years ago, this Sophie's Choice would likely have been prevented completely....

[!LittleDragon]

I wouldn't blame the foreigners, they bring in wealth. I'd blame those who sold their homes to foreigners and not redistributing that wealth into other industries.

Anyone remember the dumps that were Vancouver and Richmond before foreign money started coming in?

[noclue]

Don't forget that back then people had the same anti-foreigner resentment except it was hongers instead of mainlanders buying up property keeping the hard working born and raised Canadians from buying a home.

Also back then like now people thought Vancouver real estate would go up forever.... then the recession struck. I think it was 15% mortgages? Sunk a lot of people.

I find that most people who whine about real estate in the media are quite entitled. They want a single family detached in Vancouver west/kitsilano/kerrisdale at a reasonable price. Really now

[Traum]

The difference between now and the 90's is, Hong Kong only had a population of 6 million back then, and Taiwan had a population of 20 million at the time. A fraction of their population immigrating to Vancouver is still not very many people.

But now? China has a 1.3 billion population. Even if you were to assume a much smaller percentage of people buying up real estate here, we are still fxxked.

[!LittleDragon]

So that means a lot of people bringing in a lot of wealth right? Where's all that money going when they spend it? Certainly not back into the economy.

Again, I'd blame those making money off foreigners and not reinvesting it into the local economy. Then again, Vancourites are a self centered bunch. Average Joe who cashed out and made a million bucks is most likely going to blow it on themselves.

[twitchyzero]

I'd blame those who sold their homes to foreigners and not redistributing that wealth into other industries.


Canada is socialist enough, that's no different than communism

[westopher]

Socialist enough? Where were you in grade 3 social studies? Maybe compared to George Dubya we are socialist.....
Regardless, as much as foreign investors are part of the issue here, the real driving force behind it is people buying into the media hype of "OMG the Chinese are coming! Buy now or we never can!" Its the broke ass fucking idiots that are given 100k by their parents and believe that a down payment is all you need to own a home, and borrowing money hand over fist for the Canadian real estate dream thats been beaten into our heads that its a measure of success since we were old enough to listen. All the people making 40k a year willing to sign their life away on a 2.74 mortgage thats 50% of their income is whats really making prices climb.

[Akinari]

I find it hilarious that till this day, politicians and other peeps who have their heads stuck up their own asses are still comparing Vancouver to the likes of London, Hong Kong, Tokyo, etc.

Like seriously, where the hell did the idea of Vancouver as a world-class city even pop up from? Just because we have the nicest parks in the world, excellent weather with tons of fresh air, does not mean we are a world-class city :fulloffuck: hell even Seattle and Portland feel way more like proper metropolitan cities than Vancouver does, nevermind Asian cities such as Hong Kong or Taipei, the latter which I visit frequently.

I find it ESPECIALLY hilarious when Translink compares itself to transit systems in those above mentioned countries. Please fuck yourselves Translink.

[4444]

Just because we have the nicest parks in the world,



nice parks, not nicest




excellent weather with tons of fresh air



good weather 3 months of the year, depression the rest!

[Manic!]

Lower mainland has no planning to attract any industry, while "shit" places like Dallas, Houston are all pushing hard to get all sort of industries (IT, automaker, batteries... etc) to invest there by granting incentives.




It costs a million dollars for a house lot. How much do you think it's going to cost to buy the land for a factory in Vancouver. Then who is going to work in the factory with the cost of living so high in Vancouver. Reason why all the shit places are getting all sorts of industry is because of cheap property and a labour force that can work in the same city they live in.

One of Nanaimo's biggest employers is Tilray (medical marijuana grower) and they have been only open for a few years. In the next couple of years they will be the biggest employer here. They came because land is cheap and housing is cheap. In Vancouver there land cost would be 5 to 10 times as much as Nanaimo. Plus they would have a harder time attracting employees do to higher living cost. There is zero benefit to grow medical marijuana in Vancouver and plenty of negatives.

[4444]

It costs a million dollars for a house lot. How much do you think it's going to cost to buy the land for a factory in Vancouver. Then who is going to work in the factory with the cost of living so high in Vancouver. Reason why all the shit places are getting all sorts of industry is because of cheap property and a labour force that can work in the same city they live in.

One of Nanaimo's biggest employers is Tilray (medical marijuana grower) and they have been only open for a few years. In the next couple of years they will be the biggest employer here. They came because land is cheap and housing is cheap. In Vancouver there land cost would be 5 to 10 times as much as Nanaimo. Plus they would have a harder time attracting employees do to higher living cost. There is zero benefit to grow medical marijuana in Vancouver and plenty of negatives.

precisely, which leaves vancouver's only option being high value jobs which require skilled labour - but the cost/benefit (earnings/cost of living) is so much better in other places that you see the brain drain that's going on today.

it's not just the cost of living that's the issue, it's the lack of career growth, generally - yes, some ppl can do great, but in general terms it's so much better "elsewhere".

perhaps vancouver (politicians, etc.) is ok with this, maybe they're fine with more of a rich retirement type city? i'm not sure.

for me, i left because my career has been able to skyrocket elsewhere. i did well in vancouver, i lived a good life, had sufficient money, lived in downtown, drove a very nice car, all that... but i wasn't happy - i wanted more, vancouver can't give you more.

but then again, not everyone's like me, lots of people have rich parents who will buy them everything, others are ok with the fresh air and trees, and that makes them happy - i think with all the noise of late, i'm finding millenials are probably somewhere in the middle, wanting more, feeling like they're entitled to more - not sure they should get it, life is about smart sacrifices for long term gain.

as has been said earlier, vancouver is now a nice spot to vacation/visit family & friends, but i don't miss it when i leave.

[Hehe]

It costs a million dollars for a house lot. How much do you think it's going to cost to buy the land for a factory in Vancouver. Then who is going to work in the factory with the cost of living so high in Vancouver. Reason why all the shit places are getting all sorts of industry is because of cheap property and a labour force that can work in the same city they live in.

One of Nanaimo's biggest employers is Tilray (medical marijuana grower) and they have been only open for a few years. In the next couple of years they will be the biggest employer here. They came because land is cheap and housing is cheap. In Vancouver there land cost would be 5 to 10 times as much as Nanaimo. Plus they would have a harder time attracting employees do to higher living cost. There is zero benefit to grow medical marijuana in Vancouver and plenty of negatives.

An office building in NYC costs billions and I didn't see it stopped companies from going in.

It's not about the cost of land itself, but the long term prospect. Places like Dallas and Houston offers incentives such as tax break, tax credit... etc to promote business to come. And they attracted all kind of industrial and even IT companies to setup there.

Let's say GVR's land cost makes setting businesses that requires large real estate prohibitive, then think about industries that don't require so much space. Vancouver could become the Silicon Valley of North given its proximity to Seattle (where IT powerhouse MS/Amazon are located) or a financial hub to Asian markets given its geographical location comparing to NYC/TO... just to throw some ideas.

But yet, BC or GVR gov't never even bothered to focus on anything. The only thing Christy came up is what? LNG? They just thought since Alberta had a breeze with oil, let's do it with LNG? That's the best idea they could come up with? :fuckthatshit:

They need to actually come up with an industry that would actually bring value to what we currently have and not just some middle point of a commodity. Look at Alberta... its economy is about to enter recession with the oil tanking.

Let's say we already have so many rich Chinese and we want to make Vancouver a Chinese baller attraction place such as Monte Carlo to Europeans... then make incentive to attract even more investments to the necessary attractions. No bike-lanes for hippies.

What I'm saying is that our gov't has no vision at all. It doesn't even know what is good for GVR. And this is why all the talents are leaving. There are no dominant industry here in GVR that can attract/keep top talents; whatever industry might be...

[Trinz]

on a kind of unrelated note! The amount of gold diggers in Vancouver raises when the cost of living in Vancouver raises! so unless you are rich! get your bitches elsewhere!

[Drow]

U know, i once thought vancouver was tough. Dont really think that anymore since i visited HK recently to see family. Holy fuck that city is a shithole, unless youre in the top 1%. My sisters apartment is worth 2 mil CAD+ (if i heard correctly), and its the about the same quality and space as a 500-600k new apartment in vancouver.

Owning your own car costs a leg, and the city is congested as fuck. Sure, more job opportunities, but if you aint top 1% income earner good luck owning a decent apartment if your building from scratch without family assistance. I see so many workers in HK, no way their jobs will allow them to afford a decent place. Most of them live in shithole apartments that is small as dick.

I feel blessed living in vancouver, when compared to shithole HK. Yeah the struggle is real, but i rather take that struggle in vancouver versus shithole HK. Plus we got nice weather and dont have to walk the streets/take MTR with the congestion of a shithole ant colony. I cant wait to come back to vancouver. Living in HK temporarily has given me the drive to work harder in vancouver. You dont know how bad HK residents want to leave that shithole but cant.

[ForbiddenX]

It's not about the cost of land itself, but the long term prospect. Places like Dallas and Houston offers incentives such as tax break, tax credit... etc to promote business to come. And they attracted all kind of industrial and even IT companies to setup there.

Let's say GVR's land cost makes setting businesses that requires large real estate prohibitive, then think about industries that don't require so much space. Vancouver could become the Silicon Valley of North given its proximity to Seattle (where IT powerhouse MS/Amazon are located) or a financial hub to Asian markets given its geographical location comparing to NYC/TO... just to throw some ideas.


I thought Vancouver was going to have an Amazon office in that new Telus building after it was built? I would really like to see Vancouver head into that direction but there is just way more incentive to find and work for a company down south than it is to work in Canada if you're in the tech industry.

I left Vancouver almost a year ago to work in the bay area. There's just so much more it has to offer than Vancouver. The housing seems just as bad though in San Francisco because of all the techies down there driving up the prices. I'm not too sure about the rest of the bay area though.

It's a hard pitch to get talent to stay in Vancouver where there are tons of opportunities elsewhere for the same type of work but better salary, experience, and perks. Aside from family and friends, there's nothing really making me want to move back to Vancouver.

[asian_XL]

U know, i once thought vancouver was tough. Dont really think that anymore since i visited HK recently to see family. Holy fuck that city is a shithole, unless youre in the top 1%. My sisters apartment is worth 2 mil CAD+ (if i heard correctly), and its the about the same quality and space as a 500-600k new apartment in vancouver.

Owning your own car costs a leg, and the city is congested as fuck. Sure, more job opportunities, but if you aint top 1% income earner good luck owning a decent apartment if your building from scratch without family assistance. I see so many workers in HK, no way their jobs will allow them to afford a decent place. Most of them live in shithole apartments that is small as dick.

I feel blessed living in vancouver, when compared to shithole HK. Yeah the struggle is real, but i rather take that struggle in vancouver versus shithole HK. Plus we got nice weather and dont have to walk the streets/take MTR with the congestion of a shithole ant colony. I cant wait to come back to vancouver. Living in HK temporarily has given me the drive to work harder in vancouver. You dont know how bad HK residents want to leave that shithole but cant.



I find it non-sense too. My parents' 900sq ft 40yrs old apartment is worth 2.2mil cdn in the market. I am trying to see if I can buy another apartment, it will cost me at least 1mil for a 500sqft. And a parking stall here costs 200k in most area.

Even me and my wife are making decent money, we do not dare to step into this hole.

Below: we are very upset everytime we walk pass the RE agency. HK$2000 = $3.2mil cdn for a 1000sqft apartment.
http://orientaldaily.on.cc/cnt/news/20101014/photo/1014-00176-098b1.jpg

[Drow]

LMAO i was like LMAO

200k for a parking stall

[haymura]

U know, i once thought vancouver was tough. Dont really think that anymore since i visited HK recently to see family. Holy fuck that city is a shithole, unless youre in the top 1%. My sisters apartment is worth 2 mil CAD+ (if i heard correctly), and its the about the same quality and space as a 500-600k new apartment in vancouver.

Owning your own car costs a leg, and the city is congested as fuck. Sure, more job opportunities, but if you aint top 1% income earner good luck owning a decent apartment if your building from scratch without family assistance. I see so many workers in HK, no way their jobs will allow them to afford a decent place. Most of them live in shithole apartments that is small as dick.

I feel blessed living in vancouver, when compared to shithole HK. Yeah the struggle is real, but i rather take that struggle in vancouver versus shithole HK. Plus we got nice weather and dont have to walk the streets/take MTR with the congestion of a shithole ant colony. I cant wait to come back to vancouver. Living in HK temporarily has given me the drive to work harder in vancouver. You dont know how bad HK residents want to leave that shithole but cant.


This^

I had the same experience living in Philippines for about a year and it really opened my eyes how lucky I am to be living in Vancouver. It is frustrating to see how housing prices and affordability in this city has gone ridiculously high but at the end of it all, I would rather live in a city that has a more organized society, decent healthcare, structured and well maintained.

Imagine living in a city that...

-has garbage scattered everywhere on the streets and no one cleans it up
-not safe to walk around the city (strong possibility of getting mugged or traffic hitting you)
-no form of any healthcare (pay first before we attend and treat you)
-stereotypes and classifications ("I have more money so bow down to me" mentality or "I know a lot of influential people so respect me")
-No proper health code or food safety
-natural disasters are common (typhoons, earthquakes, floods, etc.)
-law enforcers are also scammers
-any form of government identification or documentation takes forever to process (i had to line up 6 hours to get a drivers license then another 4 hours to receive the actual ID)

and that is just the tip of the iceberg.

I am thankful to live in this city regardless of the struggle to make it big. I would rather have nothing but live happy than have everything but live miserably.

[GLOW]

Arts? not so much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqrCoyVK80I

:troll::troll::troll::troll:

[buhdeh]

What exactly are people looking for?

4000 sq foot houses for 125k? move to florida.

Honestly, like every single fucking world class city in the world is expensive, this isnt exclusive to Vancouver, people just like to beat this topic into the grave. When I was in florence last year you were looking at 300,000 EURO's for a fucking 900 sq foot 45 year old apartment within the "core" of the city. In a place where there is litterally no work for anyone prices are still "high"

In terms of the brain drain and career progression, sure. But you've got your head in the clouds if you think there are other options in major cities that are "more affordable" than here.

Watch house hunters, and other home buying shows. 680-900,000K is getting you a 2600sq foot in fucking Sacramento.

Want to live in a shit place? cool, go move there and pay "affordable prices"

I'll stick around here and live the life I enjoy, buy a residence i can afford, and make my moves accordingly. Dont go on the fucking news with your 3 kids in hand and shitty 45k/year job and cry that you cant afford to live in East Van, because you cant.

Um, the difference is other world class cities like San Francisco, New York, Hong Kong (okay, maybe not Hong Kong) have huge economies with career opportunities that ALLOW people to afford those prices. Compare Vancouver and Toronto and tell me how many people who are buying condos/houses are doing it with money they made in their respective cities.

FYI: There are plenty of places with better career prospects than Vancouver and without the terrible ratio of salary to living expenses. Toronto and Seattle immediately come to mind. Austin, TX is also quickly becoming a place that young people want to go to.

I don't know why you keep bringing up places like Nice and Florence; they are totally not comparable to Vancouver at all. They're basically resort or retirement places for wealthy people. It's like asking why anyone wants to pay so much to live in the Hamptons. If you are insinuating that Vancouver is going to become a place for wealthy people to move to with the entire economy built around serving them then, yes, I agree!

[Mr.HappySilp]

U know, i once thought vancouver was tough. Dont really think that anymore since i visited HK recently to see family. Holy fuck that city is a shithole, unless youre in the top 1%. My sisters apartment is worth 2 mil CAD+ (if i heard correctly), and its the about the same quality and space as a 500-600k new apartment in vancouver.

Owning your own car costs a leg, and the city is congested as fuck. Sure, more job opportunities, but if you aint top 1% income earner good luck owning a decent apartment if your building from scratch without family assistance. I see so many workers in HK, no way their jobs will allow them to afford a decent place. Most of them live in shithole apartments that is small as dick.

I feel blessed living in vancouver, when compared to shithole HK. Yeah the struggle is real, but i rather take that struggle in vancouver versus shithole HK. Plus we got nice weather and dont have to walk the streets/take MTR with the congestion of a shithole ant colony. I cant wait to come back to vancouver. Living in HK temporarily has given me the drive to work harder in vancouver. You dont know how bad HK residents want to leave that shithole but cant.

And with the way how our RE is heading. It won't be long till it will be like HK (maybe within 10 years). I have relatives in HK and while it is a shithole there are still better opportunities than Van.

If you look at HK they are slowly being replace by China. They are no longer the leading export, Shanghai is the top export now. In terms of jobs it is better in China in every way if you have the skills/brains. China's GPD haves surpass HK ages ago and is only going to get worse.

Van is slowing turning into a service base industry only much like Los Vegas. We have no major industries other than service to support the city. All these tech companies are hiring from elsewhere and bringing them in (Look at Microsoft) and are hiring no locals for any high paying jobs.

Gov won't do a thing because they need the revenue from tax and also the developers have paid them under the table. Also the people who go and vote are the seniors and home owners. The younger gen only complains online but when it comes voting time you don't see them. Unless we start seeing more younger gen vote there won't be any change.

[punkwax]

Too many people saying we are the top city - comparing ourselves to Paris / Tokyo / NY etc. fuck we are no where near those places. Yes we have awesome weather here in the summer. It rains for 8 months of the year. We have clean air and mountains etc. but we don't have any industries. We are closest in similarity to seattle or portland. yet they have better industries than us.

Not sure why you quoted my post? No where did I say Vancouver was a world class city. I simply stated it is a very appealing place to live and named reasons other than the city itself.

I thought Vancouver was going to have an Amazon office in that new Telus building after it was built?

Yes, Amazon will be in the new Telus building.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Yes, Amazon will be in the new Telus building.
Only thing all the high paying jobs will be not be for local. They will bring in talents form other parts of the world just like what Microsoft is doing. Only the low paying scrap will be given to locals.

[punkwax]

And they will be given the opportunity to work hard and advance in their career. There goes the Vancouverite in you bitching again :lol

Newsflash for RS: Life ain't easy.

[Hondaracer]

Also what most people don't realize is that in the current economy with material prices the way they are, building a 3000-3500 sq ft single family home AT COST is around 600k

So without a lot, you're looking at 600k for just for the structure, roughly 200-250 a sq foot for average finishing. So without a lot, could you even afford the fucking structure? Probably not, so stop fucking whining, you're essentially asking for property at a value below what it costs to build.

[pengu]

Also what most people don't realize is that in the current economy with material prices the way they are, building a 3000-3500 sq ft single family home AT COST is around 600k

So without a lot, you're looking at 600k for just for the structure, roughly 200-250 a sq foot for average finishing. So without a lot, could you even afford the fucking structure? Probably not, so stop fucking whining, you're essentially asking for property at a value below what it costs to build.

Doesn't mean much when tear downs are going for 1.5m after bidding wars. Foreign investment needs to be curbed, I was born and raised in New West, and I can't afford to buy a home anywhere in the Lower Mainland.

[melloman]

Vancouver isn't a place to grow up in anymore. I'd relate it more to a tourist/vacation destination. We have all the things, year round, to bring people here. (Skiiing, surfing, mountain biking, hiking, cuisine, etc.) Yet we don't have the stability in our economy anymore to keep anyone here.

Look at even schooling, people come to UBC to get their MD's and PhD's for medical, but once they have all their paperwork, they're gone because the money isn't here. All over BC the medical field is struggling with general doctors, sure you can stay afloat if you're a specialist as we have the demand for that, but otherwise your family docotrs are getting the fuck out.

I'm 25, making over 60k/year. And the way I look at my future here isn't bleak, but it's definitely not what I thought it was going to be when I was growing up. It definitely makes me think of leaving at times, but I know that where-ever I move, I'll still be unsatisfied with some things.

[Tapioca]

The question for the people who are upset is: why haven't YOU left yet? Or why haven't you done something about it and run for office?

Most of the people I know in engineering and the trades are doing just fine. Sure, they're not buying detached homes in Kits, but they're doing okay. Lots of women in this city are professionals in health care, law, or teaching. It's easy for professional couples to make 130-150K. No, that won't get you detached, but you'll be okay in the burbs. Sure, you could move to Regina, but will your living costs be the same given the jobs?

Most of the people who post frequently on RS are outliers in that they're smarter and savvier than the average person. So, it's easy to to say to an average person that they could just relocate to the States or somewhere else in the world. For most people, it's not that easy. For most people, they're stuck in Canada. Toronto faces the same issues as Vancouver in terms of affordability and the politics are just as shitty. Montreal is run by organized crime. Other cities in the country suffer from other issues such as poor infrastructure, weather, poor financial standing, and social issues such as crime and substance abuse.

[multicartual]

Where's the heart of this city? I'm not fucking seeing it.


You are too mainstream!!!


Fuck man I LOVE it here!


All I did this week was hang out in the sun and have a great time :)

[multicartual]

Vancouver is nice and all, but there is little future for people who really wants to make it big in their career. Finance? Toronto. IT? Silicon Valley, Seattle or Waterloo, ON. Industrial? Definitely Ontario. Gov't? Ottawa. and so on...


Getting big in your career?


I work like 1-2 hours a day and make over 100k, all this week I spent at the beach, throwing footballs, drinking cold beers and chilling with my girl!


So many people spent that same time indoors in front of a computer monitor from 9-5 because they feel the need to chase that Real Estate Ownership Status.


Maybe our culture is toxic to personal growth because we have this RIGID IDEA that FINANCIAL SUCCESS is the be-all and end-all of life.


One of the guys in my local hood makes like 10 times more than me but he works 10 times harder. Every time he gets paid he feels the need to get destroyed wasted and do cocaine for 48 hours straight, then he's in a shitty mood for 3 days before the cycle starts again next week. Happy is not how I would describe him. He works too hard in order to compete for mainstream social status through displays of wealth.


http://i.imgur.com/naP41R6.jpg


Another day in paradise...

[Hondaracer]

+1 for engineering/trades. As well as all my friends who are in finance are doing more than fine.

You go get an education that isn't applicable within BC then complain you can't find a job while welders and pipe fitters are making 80-120k a year locally.

As well, the people mentioning Seattle, if you actually think Seattle is a better option than Van then be my guest. IMO Seattle is a fucking dump.

[Drow]

+1 for engineering/trades. As well as all my friends who are in finance are doing more than fine.

You go get an education that isn't applicable within BC then complain you can't find a job while welders and pipe fitters are making 80-120k a year locally.

As well, the people mentioning Seattle, if you actually think Seattle is a better option than Van then be my guest. IMO Seattle is a fucking dump.

Holy fuck seattle is depressing as FUCK. Its so gloomy and the buildings are fcking dark and grey. Fuck... After living in vancouver most of my life it just makes me feel like every other city is a shithole.

[multicartual]

on a kind of unrelated note! The amount of gold diggers in Vancouver raises when the cost of living in Vancouver raises! so unless you are rich! get your bitches elsewhere!


My girl isn't the hottest chick by any stretch of the imagination but she puts in money for beer and weed, never causes any problems, and gives me blowjobs whenever I want and all I have to do is point at my crotch and wink


#VancityWinning

[multicartual]

+1 for engineering/trades. As well as all my friends who are in finance are doing more than fine.


Stuck indoors all day... lame.

[smoothie.]

My girl isn't the hottest chick by any stretch of the imagination but she puts in money for beer and weed, never causes any problems, and gives me blowjobs whenever I want and all I have to do is point at my crotch and wink


#VancityWinning

http://www.reactiongifs.com/lol/Obama-lol.gif

[Hondaracer]

Doesn't mean much when tear downs are going for 1.5m after bidding wars. Foreign investment needs to be curbed, I was born and raised in New West, and I can't afford to buy a home anywhere in the Lower Mainland.

Again, what does it matter what a tear down is going for if you can't even afford the building materials to build a home. You are asking to purchase a home for less than the structure is worth, let alone the property value

[GLOW]

I want and all I have to do is point at my crotch and wink


#VancityWinning

just like the Sacha Baron Cohen in the dictator

http://media3.giphy.com/media/ENagATV1Gr9eg/giphy.gif

[Tapioca]

Holy fuck seattle is depressing as FUCK. Its so gloomy and the buildings are fcking dark and grey. Fuck... After living in vancouver most of my life it just makes me feel like every other city is a shithole.

Bellevue is quite a new place if you work for one of the big companies and can afford to live there. Seattle is still in the Pacific Northwest, so you get the benefits of a temperate climate, decent food, and generally relaxed political attitudes with the benefits of lower food prices, more retailers, better logistics, and most importantly, more varied auto parts suppliers to keep your 3-4 project cars going.

I think another reason why people are intrigued by Seattle is that somehow people equate having a freeway going through the city centre as a sign of a good city.

[Traum]

I think another reason why people are intrigued by Seattle is that somehow people equate having a freeway going through the city centre as a sign of a good city.
:fuckthatshit:

Obviously only people who have never lived in cities like Seattle or Toronto would think that...

[!LittleDragon]

This whole part of the continent is depressing 8-10 months of the year. You barely get sunshine outside of summer. Ever wonder why most of the grunge bands were out of the pacific northwest? It's depressing here!

[meme405]

So according to this thread you are either:

-Delusional for thinking Van is affordable
-an idiot for getting an education in an industry which doesn't exist in Van
-Lazy if you can't make enough money to live here
-Prone to suicide if you live in seattle
-Fucked if you live in HK
-A hillbilly if you live anywhere outside of Victoria or the LowerMainland
-a Peasant if you live outside of in anything besides a worldclass city

If you don't fit into any of the above categories you must be multicartual.

[Hondaracer]

You guys talking about the rain, were you not here for the last 2-3 years?

It's rained a fraction of what it used to. These last few years have been heaven compared to 10-12 ago. Not saying this is going to be a long term trend but sure seems like a possibility the way the rest of North America is going

[CivicBlues]

Bellevue is quite a new place if you work for one of the big companies and can afford to live there. Seattle is still in the Pacific Northwest, so you get the benefits of a temperate climate, decent food, and generally relaxed political attitudes with the benefits of lower food prices, more retailers, better logistics, and most importantly, more varied auto parts suppliers to keep your 3-4 project cars going.

I think another reason why people are intrigued by Seattle is that somehow people equate having a freeway going through the city centre as a sign of a good city.

That's basically most American cities though. Every single one has a freeway running through it's downtown.

Seattle's great, most people from Van just hang out (if they even leave the outlets) in the same places downtown and in Belltown . I'd get the impression of a scuzzy city too if that's all I saw. But there's tons of other cool hipster-y neighborhoods like Capitol Hill, Freemont, Ballard. Not to mention the nice suburbs like Bellevue, Everett, etc.

[Hot Karl]

it's already a renters market. i think you'll just see more folks go the way of perma-renting much like the go-cars/zipcars type of thing.

every person that buys a house NEEDS a tenant nowadays.

paying 1k a month for 25 years = 300k

you ain't buying shit for 300k. so even if you rent for the next 50 years that's 600k in rent.

you'd have to pay that 600k and more within 25 years to own anything. tack on 100k for property tax over that time.

if i didn't need my mortgage to buy US property i'd be doing this.

[underscore]

paying 1k a month for 25 years = 300k

you ain't buying shit for 300k. so even if you rent for the next 50 years that's 600k in rent.

That doesn't even get you a 300k place, you have to factor in the interest. If you can rent a place for less than the mortgage on it you're ahead, up here rent costs more than a mortgage so you're better off owning.

[!LittleDragon]

You guys talking about the rain, were you not here for the last 2-3 years?

It's rained a fraction of what it used to. These last few years have been heaven compared to 10-12 ago. Not saying this is going to be a long term trend but sure seems like a possibility the way the rest of North America is going

Total Precipitation over the Last 25 Years (annual data) for Vancouver (http://vancouver.weatherstats.ca/charts/precipitation-25years.html)

Seems pretty consistent to me. You can draw a trend line straight across 1000mm. Last year was actually almost 30% more rain than average but it's not the rain that bothers me, it's the lack of sunshine.

I never take vacation in the summer here but a few months of gray sky, it's off to Waikiki.... every year...

[Great68]

+1 for engineering/trades. As well as all my friends who are in finance are doing more than fine.

You go get an education that isn't applicable within BC then complain you can't find a job while welders and pipe fitters are making 80-120k a year locally.

As well, the people mentioning Seattle, if you actually think Seattle is a better option than Van then be my guest. IMO Seattle is a fucking dump.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who went to post secondary in a field which doesn't have a lot of industry presence in Vancouver.

Like if you wanted to live in Vancouver, why didn't you fucking take something which gives you a high chance of getting a related job in Vancouver.

One of my buddies got a degree in some really specialized field of physics. There is probably a market for that back east, but not exactly here. He doesn't want to move, so he cleans offices at night for a living. That's his own fucking fault, not Vancouver's.

[Traum]

It isn't so much the total amount of rainfall that we get. Rather, it's the number of dry vs wet days that seems to have changed, almost certainly as a result of global climate change.

When I was a kid, Vancouver always used to only have drizzles. The rain was so gentle back then you didn't even need an umbrella. But nowadays? We can go on for 2 - 3 weeks without rain, and then when it comes down, it really comes down like an epic downpour. Of course, we still get some of the mild stuff, but it is definitely not the same.

I suck at googling this kind of thing, but if we look at the total number of dry days vs rainy days, I'm willing to bet that we have been shifting towards having far more dry days now than we did in the past.

[Gucci Mane]

fuck it is real difficult living in the lower mainland. mortgage is $1900/month and rental income is $1200. this $700 a month mortgage payment that my parents and i pay for our little 5000sqft shack really has us drained. shits real rough....

[Hondaracer]

yea for sure, which is probably preferred as opposed to drizzly days for weeks on end.

Snowfall is another big change, growing up in surrey I can distinctly remember year after year significant snowfall, now it's lucky to have a dusting

[!LittleDragon]

It isn't so much the total amount of rainfall that we get. Rather, it's the number of dry vs wet days that seems to have changed, almost certainly as a result of global climate change.

When I was a kid, Vancouver always used to only have drizzles. The rain was so gentle back then you didn't even need an umbrella. But nowadays? We can go on for 2 - 3 weeks without rain, and then when it comes down, it really comes down like an epic downpour. Of course, we still get some of the mild stuff, but it is definitely not the same.

I suck at googling this kind of thing, but if we look at the total number of dry days vs rainy days, I'm willing to bet that we have been shifting towards having far more dry days now than we did in the past.


Number of Days with Precipitation over the Last 25 Years (annual data) for Vancouver (http://vancouver.weatherstats.ca/charts/count_precipitation-25years.html)

Number of days with precipitation hasn't changed either? The snow graph is interesting... http://vancouver.weatherstats.ca/charts/snow-25years.html Fairly consistent the past 25 years but when it spikes up, it spikes a lot.

[Manic!]

It isn't so much the total amount of rainfall that we get. Rather, it's the number of dry vs wet days that seems to have changed, almost certainly as a result of global climate change.

When I was a kid, Vancouver always used to only have drizzles. The rain was so gentle back then you didn't even need an umbrella. But nowadays? We can go on for 2 - 3 weeks without rain, and then when it comes down, it really comes down like an epic downpour. Of course, we still get some of the mild stuff, but it is definitely not the same.

I suck at googling this kind of thing, but if we look at the total number of dry days vs rainy days, I'm willing to bet that we have been shifting towards having far more dry days now than we did in the past.


Number of Days of Rain over the Last 25 Years (annual data) for VancouverNumber of Days
Year Number of Days
1990 166
1991 157
1992 153
1993 139
1994 166
1995 149
1996 169
1997 184
1998 168
1999 193
2000 171
2001 169
2002 149
2003 159
2004 178
2005 158
2006 176
2007 197
2008 162
2009 147
2010 187
2011 162
2012 176
2013 157
2014 155
2015 65

Number of Days of Rain over the Last 25 Years (annual data) for Vancouver (http://vancouver.weatherstats.ca/charts/count_rain-25years.html)

[Hondaracer]

Interesting..because as Somone who is outside for work most of the day or at least in and out its seemed like a night and day difference in the last few years because mornings aren't full of dread lol

[ilovebacon]

^ i would love to see more sun shine

[Traum]

Thank you for digging the rainy days graph up.

I read the graph differently than you do though. Out of the last 25 years, the average and median number of rainy days are 169.5 and 169, respectively. But if you look back at the last 7 years (from 2008 - 2014), the average and median days are only 167.3 and 164, with the abnormally wet 2012 included. Take 2012 out, the average number of wet days drop to 164.8. From 1990 - 2007, the average number of wet days is 170.4.

So I'd interpret the weather as one that has been getting dryer.

[!LittleDragon]

lol, well, that's just cherry picking numbers... but rain wasn't the point I was trying to make. It's the lack of sunshine, especially the winter. Short days and when there's daylight, the sun is covered up by clouds. Doesn't have to rain to be depressing... Not just a Vancouver thing, it's this whole area of the continent all the way down to Oregon...

[multicartual]

fuck it is real difficult living in the lower mainland. mortgage is $1900/month and rental income is $1200. this $700 a month mortgage payment that my parents and i pay for our little 5000sqft shack really has us drained. shits real rough....


You live at home?

[multicartual]

It's the lack of sunshine, especially the winter.


I love the bipolar weather and day / night cycles of Vancouver!


This place fucking rocks... you just need the cash to enjoy it!


Those without money ALWAYS hate it here.

[RiceIntegraRS]

i find it crazy that some of u dont think its absurd that foreigners are buying their way into a city that my generation, my parents generation, and some of our grandparents generation has built with our tax dollars. Now some, if not most of us are being squeezed out of this city to have a foreigner reap the rewards of the city it took decades to build just because they have money to do so.

[!LittleDragon]

I have money and hate it here... but I'm here because of friends and family. To compensate, I take many trips a year to places where the sun shines and the water is blue and the beach isn't made of pebbles... lol

[pengu]

To all the people defending Vancouver as a "world class city", It's a fucking dump run by condo companies and asian investors. We have more crime than most other comparable cities, we're more expensive and we have less jobs.

It shouldn't cost $1m to live in the suburbs. And if building supplies really are worth so much, then why do other cities have reasonable property prices and not Vancouver? It's 100% government's fault for not curbing foreign investors, I remember when I could walk around Metro Van as a child and people were somewhat sociable and most people were of Canadian descent. I don't mind foreigners, but when they don't integrate, generally don't contribute to the community in any positive way and make my city unavailable for me.. that crosses the line. When in Rome, do as the Romans.

[multicartual]

I have money and hate it here... but I'm here because of friends and family. To compensate, I take many trips a year to places where the sun shines and the water is blue and the beach isn't made of pebbles... lol


You sound like one of those people who, even with money, hasn't had much personal growth or really explored what they like and don't like in life.

Vancouver is literally a destination for the rich. You can find nearly everything and anyone you want here.

You follow the idea of what makes a "vacation" by what is sold to you, rather than looking around you and finding those things right here:

http://i.imgur.com/ddor3HZ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/IzsceMX.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/hddSM4S.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/kOMgvWq.jpg

Vancouver is a paradise, I could live anywhere in the world and I choose here :)

[!LittleDragon]

i find it crazy that some of u dont think its absurd that foreigners are buying their way into a city that my generation, my parents generation, and some of our grandparents generation has built with our tax dollars. Now some, if not most of us are being squeezed out of this city to have a foreigner reap the rewards of the city it took decades to build just because they have money to do so.

Not absurd at all. Like I said, they bring wealth. If someone bought an Aventador with cash, they paid more in taxes than most people make all year. Contributing more to the city's coffers than most people do in 10 years with one purchase. (don't bother correcting me on the numbers, I'm just throwing numbers out for the sake of argument) What's happening with all that extra tax money? Is the government using it to improve healthcare? Education? More bike lanes?

[multicartual]

To all the people defending Vancouver as a "world class city", It's a fucking dump run by condo companies and asian investors.


You choose to see it as that :)

[pengu]

Not absurd at all. Like I said, they bring wealth. If someone bought an Aventador with cash, they paid more in taxes than most people make all year. Contributing more to the city's coffers than most people do in 10 years with one purchase. (don't bother correcting me on the numbers, I'm just throwing numbers out for the sake of argument) What's happening with all that extra tax money? Is the government using it to improve healthcare? Education? More bike lanes?

Can't buy a Lambo if they don't live here.

[Harvey Specter]

fuck it is real difficult living in the lower mainland. mortgage is $1900/month and rental income is $1200. this $700 a month mortgage payment that my parents and i pay for our little 5000sqft shack really has us drained. shits real rough....

That's awesome brah but not everyone wants to go live in Surrey, have 5 cars parked out on the lawn and have 10 people living in 2 basement suites.

[pengu]

fuck it is real difficult living in the lower mainland. mortgage is $1900/month and rental income is $1200. this $700 a month mortgage payment that my parents and i pay for our little 5000sqft shack really has us drained. shits real rough....

Rule of thumb is 30% of income goes to housing. How to afford even a shitty, tiny house in Metro Van while making $65,000 (Which by the way, is the average wage in Vancouver). Anywhere else in Canada you could afford a house on $60,000. 20 year mortgage, 5% down payment and total cost of $1m after taxes and obligatory bidding war. Plus property tax, maintenance and other costs associated with home ownership.

[!LittleDragon]

You sound like one of those people who, even with money, hasn't had much personal growth or really explored what they like and don't like in life.

Vancouver is literally a destination for the rich. You can find nearly everything and anyone you want here.

You follow the idea of what makes a "vacation" by what is sold to you, rather than looking around you and finding those things right here:

http://i.imgur.com/ddor3HZ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/IzsceMX.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/hddSM4S.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/kOMgvWq.jpg

Vancouver is a paradise, I could live anywhere in the world and I choose here :)


I don't "vacation" to those places. I literally go there to "live" for a weeks at a time. I know what I like and it ain't here... Like I said, friends and family are the only reason why I'm here. They're more important to me than where I live. But I do keep $1000 for a one way ticket to Hawaii as a backup plan in case all my investments go kaboom. I'd rather be homeless there than here. Immigration is gonna have to try and find me living in the forest... lol

[!LittleDragon]

Can't buy a Lambo if they don't live here.

That was just an example. Doesn't have to be a Lambo. If it's a number of properties, that's a lot of property tax they're paying on an annual basis. Point is, money spent here = taxes.

[pengu]

That was just an example. Doesn't have to be a Lambo. If it's a number of properties, that's a lot of property tax they're paying on an annual basis. Point is, money spent here = taxes.
I'd prefer an average property price of $400,000 over any sort of taxes earned for my government as it's money I actually save in my pocket as opposed to used for Translink executive pay.

[Tapioca]

It shouldn't cost $1m to live in the suburbs. And if building supplies really are worth so much, then why do other cities have reasonable property prices and not Vancouver? It's 100% government's fault for not curbing foreign investors, I remember when I could walk around Metro Van as a child and people were somewhat sociable and most people were of Canadian descent. I don't mind foreigners, but when they don't integrate, generally don't contribute to the community in any positive way and make my city unavailable for me.. that crosses the line. When in Rome, do as the Romans.

Because Vancouver offers a lot of things to Asian investors that other cities don't:

- Reasonable Canadian immigration policies
- Proximity to Asia and air links to China
- Very established Chinese ex-pat/ethnic enclave
- Generous social programs for their children and relatives
- Clean air and a slower pace of life

[multicartual]

Rule of thumb is 30% of income goes to housing. How to afford even a shitty, tiny house in Metro Van while making $65,000


Why not rent?


My life is really awesome and there is literally never a moment where I stop having a good time and go "oh man life would be better if I owned this place"

[Sid Vicious]

To all the people defending Vancouver as a "world class city", It's a fucking dump run by condo companies and asian investors. We have more crime than most other comparable cities, we're more expensive and we have less jobs.

It shouldn't cost $1m to live in the suburbs. And if building supplies really are worth so much, then why do other cities have reasonable property prices and not Vancouver? It's 100% government's fault for not curbing foreign investors, I remember when I could walk around Metro Van as a child and people were somewhat sociable and most people were of Canadian descent. I don't mind foreigners, but when they don't integrate, generally don't contribute to the community in any positive way and make my city unavailable for me.. that crosses the line. When in Rome, do as the Romans.

what do you expect the government to do? everytime a government has intervened in that manner, they've created a number of other unforeseen problems.

[Hondaracer]

I'd prefer an average property price of $400,000 over any sort of taxes earned for my government as it's money I actually save in my pocket as opposed to used for Translink executive pay.

here ya go, Boise Idaho may be for you!

400k there gets you this gem

http://p.rdcpix.com/v01/l98703e45-m0xd-w640_h480_q80.jpg

http://p.rdcpix.com/v01/l98703e45-m0xd-w640_h480_q80.jpg

or this 2000sq ft place in Medicine hat

http://www.point2homes.com/media/photo/64fd/5ae9/3666/a95cc39c2ad682c6c8d5/wm_large

or for 500k you can have this row home in saskatoon:

http://www.point2homes.com/media/photo/96ee/1af1/55ff/3a5cc020a077b55c189c/wm_large

http://www.point2homes.com/CA/Home-For-Sale/SK/Saskatoon/Evergreen/734-Kloppenburg-Court/5767665.html

Whichita Kansas however, may be in your price range, get this 2200 sq foot rancher for a mere $159,000. A price for which you could not build the house for, neither here nor there.

http://p.rdcpix.com/v01/l67b43e45-m0xd-w640_h480_q80.jpg

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/9117-W-Central-Park-St_Wichita_KS_67205_M76937-13686?row=9

Notice a trend? -everywhere- in Canada is "expensive" if you cant afford 500k minimum.

i'm not trying to be a big Vancouver homer or anything but honestly the vast majority of people who complain about the cost of living have their heads in the clouds in regards to the general pricing throughout Canada.

[pengu]

what do you expect the government to do? everytime a government has intervened in that manner, they've created a number of other unforeseen problems.
Anything they do creates a number of unforeseen problems. It's their job as policy makers to choose the best option. Now what Vancity's report says is pretty serious, we all knew it was going to happen and this is more evidence that it will happen. A trashed economy is not as good as less Asian investment.

[multicartual]

Pok guiiiii

[pengu]

here ya go, Boise Idaho may be for you!

400k there gets you this gem

http://p.rdcpix.com/v01/l98703e45-m0xd-w640_h480_q80.jpg

http://p.rdcpix.com/v01/l98703e45-m0xd-w640_h480_q80.jpg

American immigration policies are tough I couldn't relocate to the states. I'd like to live in another comparable city to Vancouver, in Canada where you will find that very same property and many much nicer properties for much less than you would in Vancouver.

[multicartual]

I'd like to live in another comparable city to Vancouver, in Canada


I'd like my cock to jizz out Ferraris driven by supermodels who give birth to satchels full of money and rare gemstones, but it is pretty unlikely to happen

[Manic!]

i find it crazy that some of u dont think its absurd that foreigners are buying their way into a city that my generation, my parents generation, and some of our grandparents generation has built with our tax dollars. Now some, if not most of us are being squeezed out of this city to have a foreigner reap the rewards of the city it took decades to build just because they have money to do so.

Ya but your ancestors got the land for next to nothing.

[pengu]

I'd like my cock to jizz out Ferraris driven by supermodels who give birth to satchels full of money and rare gemstones, but it is pretty unlikely to happen
That's why I have not left yet. I rent because it's the smart thing to do here but I'd rather own a home. If the govt raises taxes to pay for Translink, that would tip the scale for me.

[westopher]

I love the bipolar weather and day / night cycles of Vancouver!


This place fucking rocks... you just need the cash to enjoy it!


Those without money ALWAYS hate it here.
People make it seem way more expensive than it is. Right now my wife is a full time student who works MAYBE enough to cover half the rent each month. I make a reasonable wage. We live 5 blocks from the ocean, have a car thats paid for, eat good food, and mean really fucking good, for every meal, snowboard whenever we want to in whistler, drink every weekend, take trips when we feel like it, dress nicely and have a pretty big chunk of money in our bank account (think enough for a down payment on a reasonable place for us.)
The problem isn't making too little money, its that people are genuinely retarded with what they think they need to buy. People borrow so much, and carry all this debt, and are basically paying 1.19x what everything they buy costs because they visa it, and visa it again and again just so they can have it now instead of a couple months from now. These are the same people thinking they DESERVE a house, not a condo, but a house in Vancouver. There are plenty of ways to live in this city relatively well if you don't live beyond your means, and the sooner people realize that, the sooner they can be happy. There is nothing wrong with renting until you are 30, 40, or even the rest of your life if you invest the money you make properly and intelligently. The reason that owning a home used to be a measure of wealth is that no one understood other types of investment. Generations before us banked on their homes as a nest egg, retirement fund, etc. Get with the fucking times people. Homeownership is no longer the be all and end all measure of becoming a successful grown up. The sooner everyone realizes it, the sooner out economy can stop hinging on it, and the real estate prices can come back down to earth. Its called fucking supply and demand. Stop demanding it when you can't reasonably attain it.

[Traum]

Anything they do creates a number of unforeseen problems. It's their job as policy makers to choose the best option. Now what Vancity's report says is pretty serious, we all knew it was going to happen and this is more evidence that it will happen. A trashed economy is not as good as less Asian investment.
Exactly -- it's the government's job to choose the best option that provides the best welfare of the citizens. And those who are in the position to do so are handsomely paid to make those decisions. Given the cruddy policies we have been seeing, I think it's fair to say they haven't been doing their jobs well.

[Lomac]

i find it crazy that some of u dont think its absurd that foreigners are buying their way into a city that my generation, my parents generation, and some of our grandparents generation has built with our tax dollars. Now some, if not most of us are being squeezed out of this city to have a foreigner reap the rewards of the city it took decades to build just because they have money to do so.

One could reasonably argue that it was foreign money that made the GVRD into the ideal place it is today, especially in the late 80's and early 90's, and the late 90's to the present. Until relatively recently, Richmond was mostly farmland, and Vancouver (DT and Metro) were factories and other industrial properties. It wasn't until after Expo '86 that both domestic and foreign developers started seeing the possibilities that were hidden.

[iEatClams]

Anything they do creates a number of unforeseen problems. It's their job as policy makers to choose the best option. Now what Vancity's report says is pretty serious, we all knew it was going to happen and this is more evidence that it will happen. A trashed economy is not as good as less Asian investment.

We could continue to still have the foreign investment. Australia has restrictions on their RE for foreigners, and their housing market hasn't crashed. RE still went up, it's just not increasing at the crazy rate we are in Vancouver. China is creating more millionaires at an alarming pace. They will continue to move their money overseas to safe havens.

To make sure things don't get too out of hand. (ie. average house in Vancouver costing $1.3 million or so.)

We just need to put some restrictions. Plus taxing or restricting it can allows us to collect more tax dollars to spend on infrastructure/health care etc.

Melbourne, Australia is doing extra taxes to foreigners and they estimate to raise $300 million dollars a year.

Foreign investment review board data shows about 40% of new residential properties in metropolitan Melbourne go to overseas buyers with foreigners pouring about $14b into Victorian property last year, Pallas said.

People are saying that on the west side of Vancouver, more than 50% of transactions are going to mainland chinese people. Metrotown area the two main buyers are EI buying land to build a house to sell to mainlanders. Or mainlanders buying new houses or teardowns and then building a giant mansion.

Extra tax on foreign property investors in Victoria to balance infrastructure cost | Australia news | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/may/02/extra-tax-on-foreign-property-investors-in-victoria-to-balance-infrastructure-cost)

[iEatClams]

Because Vancouver offers a lot of things to Asian investors that other cities don't:

- Reasonable Canadian immigration policies
- Proximity to Asia and air links to China
- Very established Chinese ex-pat/ethnic enclave
- Generous social programs for their children and relatives
- Clean air and a slower pace of life

You forgot that you don't need to learn english as all the signs are in chinese. :troll:

[Traum]

One could reasonably argue that it was foreign money that made the GVRD into the ideal place it is today, especially in the late 80's and early 90's, and the late 90's to the present. Until relatively recently, Richmond was mostly farmland, and Vancouver (DT and Metro) were factories and other industrial properties. It wasn't until after Expo '86 that both domestic and foreign developers started seeing the possibilities that were hidden.
I'd say the difference is, immigrants from the 90's were far more willing to embrace the Canadian way of life than the immigrants we see today. The 90's immigrants certainly brought their customs and languages and ethnic preferences to Vancouver, but at they same time, they try to at least partly integrate into the mainstream Canadian cultures. Our parents watched hockey and cheered on Team Canada. They took us on road trips and did the Canadian stuff. They still took us to dim sum on Sundays, but they'd take us to have steak as well. Most important of all, they identified themselves as Canadian, not another ethnic group with a Canadian passport.

I can't say I know Vancouver's current immigrants nearly as well as the immigrants from the 90's, but from my experience, I don't find them identifying themselves as Canadians nearly as much as the immigrants from the past.

[Lomac]

Um, the difference is other world class cities like San Francisco, New York, Hong Kong (okay, maybe not Hong Kong) have huge economies with career opportunities that ALLOW people to afford those prices. Compare Vancouver and Toronto and tell me how many people who are buying condos/houses are doing it with money they made in their respective cities.

FYI: There are plenty of places with better career prospects than Vancouver and without the terrible ratio of salary to living expenses. Toronto and Seattle immediately come to mind. Austin, TX is also quickly becoming a place that young people want to go to.

I don't know why you keep bringing up places like Nice and Florence; they are totally not comparable to Vancouver at all. They're basically resort or retirement places for wealthy people. It's like asking why anyone wants to pay so much to live in the Hamptons. If you are insinuating that Vancouver is going to become a place for wealthy people to move to with the entire economy built around serving them then, yes, I agree!

What amuses me is that everyone seems to brush Vancouver with the same brush as New York SF, etc., when it comes to being out priced for the typical young family/couple/bachelor/etc.

A couple things... Vancouver, just like New York and the like, isn't just ONE section of downtown. Vancouver, NYC, SF, et al all are made up of different districts and areas. Manhattan, Queens, Long Beach, Lynbrook all have different price points, just like how Gastown, Coal Harbour, UBC Endowment Lands and East Hastings also have different prices. No, someone earning below a certain dollar value isn't going to rent or own in Coal Harbour, but neither is someone in the same situation going to buy an apartment a block away from the NYSE. That said, you can find decently priced apartment units all over New York, even in high end places like Tribeca, Two Bridges and SoHo. No, they're not fully lavished buildings, but they allow you to live close to work, even if you're not a 1%'er. Mind you, even though New York is built on the edge of an ocean just like Vancouver, NY doesn't have mountains to contain it's sprawl. More land means more properties, which in turn can help with housing prices.

[Lomac]

I'd say the difference is, immigrants from the 90's were far more willing to embrace the Canadian way of life than the immigrants we see today. The 90's immigrants certainly brought their customs and languages and ethnic preferences to Vancouver, but at they same time, they try to at least partly integrate into the mainstream Canadian cultures. Our parents watched hockey and cheered on Team Canada. They took us on road trips and did the Canadian stuff. They still took us to dim sum on Sundays, but they'd take us to have steak as well. Most important of all, they identified themselves as Canadian, not another ethnic group with a Canadian passport.

I can't say I know Vancouver's current immigrants nearly as well as the immigrants from the 90's, but from my experience, I don't find them identifying themselves as Canadians nearly as much as the immigrants from the past.

I grew up in South Langley in an area that was extremely white washed. We had one non-white kid and that was because she was an exchange student from Japan. I was never directly affected as a kid by the influx of a foreign population and their investments. Well, apart from the weekly dinner trip into Vancouver to the China Kitchen restaurant. It wasn't until the late 90's, when I was finally able to drive and explore the GVRD on my own that I got to start experiencing different cultures and how they interacted with the "white people."

I wont say that everyone I met at that point were first generation immigrants, mostly because I had no idea if they were or not, but looking back now there seems to be an element of truth to what you're saying. Even though immigrants tend to flock to their own kind when moving to a new country, there seemed to be a bigger effort to assimilate into the larger population pool. Whether that meant having dinner at Sizzler or cheering for the Canucks, it didn't matter. Even when the language barrier reared it's head, there was still that feeling you'd both share when you're both celebrating Bure scoring that breakaway goal during the Stanley Cup.

But that's because any first generation moving to a new country wants to be able to feel that they fit in and are accepted.

These days there are already fully established neighbourhoods where you can move to and not even bother learning the local language. I'd like to point out that this isn't a Vancouver-specific thing. Every major city that's an immigration hub has the exact same issue (even a city like New York has Little Italy where you'll find people who speak only Italian and nothing else, as well as Curry Hill where some people speak only a specific South Asian language). Hell, even in countries like Germany you can move to a part of one of many cities and get by purely on English alone and not have to worry about a single lick of German. So, no, it's not like it's some cultural phenomenon restricted only to BC. That said, because these neighbourhoods exist, it allows people to move to a new country and not be bothered to continue on with the work that the earlier immigrants did. Why bother learning English, German, Hindi or Cantonese when you can live in an area where you only need your native language and nothing else?

But, going back to my original point is that for someone like myself, who grew up away from different cultures, even I can see that there's definitely a different change in attitude of certain cultures in the last twenty years when it comes to new immigrants.

Except Indians. I don't think I've ever seen people from a specific country try to be more Canadian than even native Canadians. During both the Olympics and Stanley Cup Finals, I couldn't have asked to be visiting friends in a better city than Surrey. Freakin' amazing.

[adambomb]

People make it seem way more expensive than it is. Right now my wife is a full time student who works MAYBE enough to cover half the rent each month. I make a reasonable wage. We live 5 blocks from the ocean, have a car thats paid for, eat good food, and mean really fucking good, for every meal, snowboard whenever we want to in whistler, drink every weekend, take trips when we feel like it, dress nicely and have a pretty big chunk of money in our bank account (think enough for a down payment on a reasonable place for us.)


You have 0 children/dependants and are probably under the age of 35. If your woman wants no kids, you are home free. Go snowboarding and make it rain! :h5:

When her tits and face start to sag and your friends start popping out kids, she'll want to join that train. Add extra mouths to feed that do not earn an income and will not for at least 15 years. Diapers, childcare, swimming lessons, community soccer and your drinking and snowboarding life will be gone. Still think you'll be able to afford to live by the beach or buy that 911 you've been lusting after? I've lived in Vancouver my whole life, if there is one thing to be certain of, its the age of the renters in Kits will always be under 35. :5shots:

[westopher]

Well kids are in the cards in hopefully maybe 5 years. She's a few years younger so the rush isn't there. That said, with 4 years of her working before that happens at 75-80k a year does a lot for our situation. Maybe we won't be able to live here anymore, but that is our choice by having kids. We don't have the "right" to live in the most expensive real estate in Canada. That said, the drinking is going to end because I will have more important things to attend to, like the kid, but the snowboarding will still be happening with a little board added to the roof rack of the 911. Thats the way life works, you adapt to your situation. If that adaption is moving, so be it, but I'm not incredibly worried. Its far from impossible. There are always options, and none of those involve just complaining.

[GLOW]

Pok guiiiii

I'd like my cock to jizz out Ferraris driven by supermodels who give birth to satchels full of money and rare gemstones, but it is pretty unlikely to happen

not sure if it's the craft beer i've been drinking tonight, but your posts on this page are gold :fullofwin::nyan::nyan::nyan:

[multicartual]

not sure if it's the craft beer i've been drinking tonight, but your posts on this page are gold :fullofwin::nyan::nyan::nyan:


Thanks!


We should all take the time to acknowledge that Vancouver has helped a great community like Revscene happen, bridging together men and women of many different backgrounds over a common interest. This group of people on RS are a good representation of many different subcultures and yet almost all of us get along, which at the end of the day reflects great on Vancouverites.

I used to read many different forums growing up and in many places in the US, car forum members would beef and get in physical fights, some forums shut down meet-ups due to all of the meatheads wanting to punch each other up!

Here? Pretty laid back, we just have to worry about nammer scammers and 14 dolla ballas.


>cheers to my fellow Vancouverites and RS'ers<

[underscore]

American immigration policies are tough I couldn't relocate to the states. I'd like to live in another comparable city to Vancouver, in Canada where you will find that very same property and many much nicer properties for much less than you would in Vancouver.

Please tell me where is comparable to BC yet significantly cheaper. Alberta has nothing to do, Sask has even less, Manitoba is full of bugs, Ontario you either freeze to death or get heatstroke, Quebec is french, the Maritimes are gorgeous but there's no work and the Territories barely exist.

Depending on what you want to do with your life there's always a few places you can pick from but generally speaking the reason BC is more expensive is because it's actually worth living in. Of course if you don't do anything outside your house and don't give a fuck about what's around you the possibilities are endless.

[tonyzoomzoom]

Entitlement.

enuff said.

[Gumby]

Here's an opinion piece from the Vancouver Courier today:

Spoilered for length.

Government intervention unlikely in Vancouver real estate market

If you have noticed a persistent ringing in your ears lately, take heart as we all are hearing it. It is the sound of government cash registers as they rake in revenue from Vancouver’s record-breaking real estate market.

What you will certainly not hear above the din is any politician saying they will make any changes that could risk driving down housing prices. That is because they are too dependent on the dollars it brings into government coffers.

In you still think that an elected official will come to the rescue of those trying to buy into Vancouver’s hyper-inflated single-family housing market, please note the following.

There are 757 million reasons why the B.C. government will not intervene. That figure represents the total the amount in dollars the government raised in property transfer taxes in the last fiscal year. Buying and selling homes is big business in B.C., and that figure could go as high as $1 billion if 2015 sales projections hold.

There are nearly 1.9 billion reasons why Mayor Gregor Robertson will keep his mouth zipped over double-digit property assessment increases across our city. The City of Vancouver issued $1.88-billion worth of residential permits in 2014. Overall this represents a 77 per cent increase over 2008.

The mayor is consistent in his view that he thinks the city is cash-starved — so why would he dare to turn off the flow of revenue home-building provides? One might surmise then that Robertson’s talk about housing affordability is as empty as the homes he wants citizens to report on a snitch website.

Then there is the thorny politics of home prices. If you are in the market already as a homeowner, chances are you are praying that your real estate investment will continue to appreciate. Many of us lament the loss of affordability, but none of us are likely to respond by selling to the lowest bidder.

Furthermore, homeowners are more likely to vote, and if their home price drops because of political intervention, you can kiss their support goodbye at election time.

Some assert that as long as home prices continue to rise, politicians at city hall have job security. They point to the last time Vancouver experienced any prolonged property price depreciation in 1999 to 2002. It was during that time that the incumbent NPA council was routed by Larry Campbell and COPE.

Rest assured that our mayor and council understand there are political consequences for putting the squeeze on home price values.

This does not mean elected officials are impervious to pressure from citizens. Tens of thousands have already signed a petition at Change.org demanding our politicians restrict foreign investment in our real estate market. They cite similar policies tried in Australia and England to cool — albeit unsuccessfully — spiking real estate prices overseas.

Opposition politicians have naturally seized the issue, although one has to wonder if they would do the same in government. An NDP Member of Parliament is demanding that government provide resources to study the impact of foreign investment in housing.

The terms of reference for this kind of plan alone would be daunting. There are approximately 4,000 municipalities in Canada, and most of them would love to have Vancouver’s revenue growth statistics.

The question is even more basic for the federal government. Why would you use limited tax dollars on a project whose end-goal is to deflate tax revenue from the real estate market?

It is debatable if any plan to curb foreign investment would even work. An Australian study determined that domestic buyers — taking advantage of low interest rates — have overwhelmingly driven up real estate prices in that country.

Do not despair, however, because our politicians can do something about housing affordability: allow more of it to be built.

The laws of supply and demand are no different here in B.C. than anywhere else. We have seen since the increase of development of attached housing that prices of condominiums have levelled off. This is happening in spite of some well-documented involvement of foreign buyers.

Barring a significant increase in interest rates, however, Vancouver’s limited supply of detached homes will continue to appreciate in value. That means we will continue to hear another sound.

The ringing of alarm bells over declining affordability.

mike@mikeklassen.net

@mikeklassen

- See more at: Government intervention unlikely in Vancouver real estate market (http://www.vancourier.com/opinion/government-intervention-unlikely-in-vancouver-real-estate-market-1.1941361#.dpuf)


tldr: the government makes a ton of money as a result of high real estate prices. They would be stupid to do anything to slow down the market.

[CP.AR]

I frequent the airport in Vancouver a lot.
The amount of people who hold a Canadian passport and cannot speak a single drop of english is appaling.

Older folks... I have no comment, some probably came against their will even...
But what the fuck are you doing in Canada if you're in your 40s and cannot even understand a "yes" or a "no"?

[twitchyzero]

lol, seattle is a depressing shit hole?
city proper perhaps but their burbs make langley, coquitlam, surrey etc look pretty bland.

Metro Van might have close proximity between mountains and ocean but seatac-bellevue is a major economic powerhouse, better road trip options (portland only 2.5 hours away), closer proximity to proper race tracks

and contrary to popular belief, unless you're in the working class, health care can actually be a lot better than our's.

[Traum]

tldr: the government makes a ton of money as a result of high real estate prices. They would be stupid to do anything to slow down the market.
True -- but it also exposes another 2 fairly simple facts:

1) The opposition party can easily spin this housing affordability issue into an election worthy item, and make a big deal out of it. With Crusty having already committed to NOT doing shxt, the NDP have all the ammunition they need to attack the Liberals from every possible angle. If the governing party doesn't do anything to slow the market down, they won't get invited back into the office the next time.

2) As far as I can see, the NDP has yet to take any advantage of point #1. It just goes to show how incompetent they are in every imaginable way. Agenda setting should be something you learn in politician school 101. It takes skill to effectively spin something up, but for something as dead simple as housing affordability, I honestly can't understand why the NDP hasn't brought it up yet. When you are not the governing party, everything else should be secondary to getting the party in power.

[godwin]

You do know the politicians often have to draw on their home mortgage (2nd or 3rd) to fund their campaigns.. esp. established ones. Like Jeanny Kwan who when PHS scandal came out.. the info was she bought a detached in Kits.

I would say they are more vested personally to keep the house prices up.

It is not that hard to turn around to say NDP themselves are just as bad.. eg Gregor, Harcourts townhouse deals etc.

True -- but it also exposes another 2 fairly simple facts:

2) As far as I can see, the NDP has yet to take any advantage of point #1. It just goes to show how incompetent they are in every imaginable way. Agenda setting should be something you learn in politician school 101. It takes skill to effectively spin something up, but for something as dead simple as housing affordability, I honestly can't understand why the NDP hasn't brought it up yet. When you are not the governing party, everything else should be secondary to getting the party in power.

[Traum]

You do know the politicians often have to draw on their home mortgage (2nd or 3rd) to fund their campaigns.. esp. established ones. Like Jeanny Kwan who when PHS scandal came out.. the info was she bought a detached in Kits.

I would say they are more vested personally to keep the house prices up.

It is not that hard to turn around to say NDP themselves are just as bad.. eg Gregor, Harcourts townhouse deals etc.
For independents, that is totally what I would expect. But for someone with party backing, especially from the 2 established parties, I would be very surprised to find them needing to kick in significant portions of their own campaign funds. After all, what good is a party association when it can't channel funds to your campaign? You might as well just shed the party baggage and run as an independent if that were the case.

Additionally, political parties have a whole mechanism and associated laws to govern political donations. Politicians themselves are far more limited in how much money they can receive from donors. This means the parties have some money to blow, while the politician himself has very little.

And then there is the very real possibility of losing. If a politician has to chip in his own money -- that is, his very own money, not donations he receives from supporters -- to fund the campaign, there is a serious problem if the funds are coming from re-mortgaging his house. What do you do when you lose? Sleep on the street?!

I am not saying it doesn't happen, but personally, I find it very hard to believe that it would happen.

[godwin]

You are assuming established parties can raise enough funds (they usually don't).. Usually politicans have a trail of debt from the party after each election.

The bills are quite high, especially in Vancouver.. I know a MP who accrued 200k debt in the last election. It is not uncommon. Also remember everyone can contribute only $1100 max.. even the candidates themselves.

For independents, that is totally what I would expect. But for someone with party backing, especially from the 2 established parties, I would be very surprised to find them needing to kick in significant portions of their own campaign funds. After all, what good is a party association when it can't channel funds to your campaign? You might as well just shed the party baggage and run as an independent if that were the case.

Additionally, political parties have a whole mechanism and associated laws to govern political donations. Politicians themselves are far more limited in how much money they can receive from donors. This means the parties have some money to blow, while the politician himself has very little.

And then there is the very real possibility of losing. If a politician has to chip in his own money -- that is, his very own money, not donations he receives from supporters -- to fund the campaign, there is a serious problem if the funds are coming from re-mortgaging his house. What do you do when you lose? Sleep on the street?!

I am not saying it doesn't happen, but personally, I find it very hard to believe that it would happen.

[asian_XL]

How many people on RS? we all should move 100km north, name a place call RevScene town. The moderators will be the mayor, there will be a drag strip in the middle of the town and a F1 race track nearby. Approved members will get a piece of land to build their house. That will be awesome.

[Nomomo]

Hilarious pill popping logic. Yet leaves out the part where he is proud to rent because he is drowning in debt and couldn't put a down payment on a place even if he had a 100k helping hand. Getting big in your career?


I work like 1-2 hours a day and make over 100k, all this week I spent at the beach, throwing footballs, drinking cold beers and chilling with my girl!


So many people spent that same time indoors in front of a computer monitor from 9-5 because they feel the need to chase that Real Estate Ownership Status.


Maybe our culture is toxic to personal growth because we have this RIGID IDEA that FINANCIAL SUCCESS is the be-all and end-all of life.


One of the guys in my local hood makes like 10 times more than me but he works 10 times harder. Every time he gets paid he feels the need to get destroyed wasted and do cocaine for 48 hours straight, then he's in a shitty mood for 3 days before the cycle starts again next week. Happy is not how I would describe him. He works too hard in order to compete for mainstream social status through displays of wealth.


http://i.imgur.com/naP41R6.jpg


Another day in paradise...

[multicartual]

Hilarious pill popping logic. Yet leaves out the part where he is proud to rent because he is drowning in debt and couldn't put a down payment on a place even if he had a 100k helping hand.


I don't pop pills...


Sure I have a little debt but I also have a steady good income :) If I wanted to make 250k+ a year I could work 8 hours a day instead of 1-2... but then I wouldn't have a fun hipster lifestyle :(


You make it sound like owning a place is the #1 thing in life... I have great friends, an awesome lifestyle and I'm happy as fuck!


If you're who I think you are, go back to listening to Tom Leykis and hiring prostitutes because no woman ever wants your company!

[Gululu]

Good.

We don't need more whiners (losers) crowded in the the Lower Mainland anyway.
Either shut up/quit rubbernecking what others do with their money OR LEAVE ALREADY
either way, give it 5 more years, by 2020 rich mainland Chinese and other groups will NOT have the incentive to even invest in your backwater little town called vancouver. By then, even if houses drops back to 2000's prices, you poor broke losers still cannot gather enough money for a downpayment.

vancouver is mediocre and the people living in vancouver are small minded people that have no world views. stupid silly canadians

[punkwax]

If I wanted to make 250k+ a year I could work 8 hours a day instead of 1-2... but then I wouldn't have a fun hipster lifestyle :(


I don't like to use the word... but this is literally the most retarded thing I've ever read on Revscene.

Edit: Just read gululu's post... now I'm on the fence. :considered:

[Gululu]

I'll gladly pay speculation taxes if your governments agrees to compensate Aboriginal Peoples' land. don't give me bullshit excuses such as ie. I was born here and raised here.
(as if introduction of speculation tax will lower prices... lol u wish pathetic)

[multicartual]

I don't like to use the word... but this is literally the most retarded thing I've ever read on Revscene.


I think you're a retard for spending the best years of your life working rather than living

[multicartual]

vancouver is mediocre and the people living in vancouver are small minded people that have no world views. stupid silly canadians


I bet you are a total dork

[underscore]

Edit: Just read gululu's post... now I'm on the fence. :considered:

It is partially true though. Don't get me wrong, Vancouver is an awesome place, but it's overhyped to hell and back. People need to stop directly comparing it to places that it's not even close to being. Vancouver is not London, or New York, or any of the other massive cities people keep comparing it to. Personally I'm thankful for that as I have zero interest in such places.

[multicartual]

Vancouver is not London, or New York, or any of the other massive cities people keep comparing it to.


Yes, Vancouver is better :)

[westopher]

Good.

We don't need more whiners (losers) crowded in the the Lower Mainland anyway.
Either shut up/quit rubbernecking what others do with their money OR LEAVE ALREADY
either way, give it 5 more years, by 2020 rich mainland Chinese and other groups will NOT have the incentive to even invest in your backwater little town called vancouver. By then, even if houses drops back to 2000's prices, you poor broke losers still cannot gather enough money for a downpayment.

vancouver is mediocre and the people living in vancouver are small minded people that have no world views. stupid silly canadians

Where do you get your money from? Rich kids with their parents money are just as big of losers as the crackheads on the street. They are just luckier.

[Soundy]

what do you expect the government to do? everytime a government has intervened in that manner, they've created a number of other unforeseen problems.

Doesn't matter what they do, someone will find a reason to complain about how it's ruining their lives. Add a bunch of roadblocks for foreign investment and offshore home buyers to appease all the "I can't afford to live in Vancouver" whiners, next thing the news will be full of sellers crying about how they'll be destitute because their houses haven't been able to sell for market value.

I suspect the market will look after itself nicely either way... it's more just a question of which side of the equation gets all the press.

[Berzerker]

After moving out of Vancouver I now know I will never move back. I grew up in North Van and don't get me wrong I would love to move back there but it makes no sense. The cost of anything there is beyond anything I would ever want to spend. RIP Vancouver. If I were to ever move back down, Chilliwack is where I would probably settle.

Berz out.

[jing]

Good.

We don't need more whiners (losers) crowded in the the Lower Mainland anyway.
Either shut up/quit rubbernecking what others do with their money OR LEAVE ALREADY
either way, give it 5 more years, by 2020 rich mainland Chinese and other groups will NOT have the incentive to even invest in your backwater little town called vancouver. By then, even if houses drops back to 2000's prices, you poor broke losers still cannot gather enough money for a downpayment.

vancouver is mediocre and the people living in vancouver are small minded people that have no world views. stupid silly canadians

Gululu is like the wannabe fob version of this guy:
http://demotivation.me/images/20090916/fu2mbulkz1or.jpg

Gululu in a nutshell:
1. Hates Vancouver
2. Hates Canada
3. Hates white people
4. Hates poor people
5. Hates hongers
6. Loves China

Serious question though. There's no denying that you're a "Vancouverite", born and raised, yet you speak of this city as an outsider, full of contempt. What's keeping you here?

[multicartual]

Funny to see that so many people in this thread that own property actually hate it here, talk so much shit and sound depressed about their lives

Meanwhile renters love it here and speak with kind words about Vancouver and are grateful to live in such a beautiful and safe place :) :) :)

[westopher]

The stress of debt you can't handle can make ANYONE miserable, mortgage, credit card or otherwise.

[Mr.C]

Funny to see that so many people in this thread that own property actually hate it here, talk so much shit and sound depressed about their lives

Meanwhile renters love it here and speak with kind words about Vancouver and are grateful to live in such a beautiful and safe place :) :) :)

I have a condo rented out, and wish I never bought it. I currently rent in a nicer part of town and it's way better. It's about the lifestyle, really. I'm happy renting here vs owning and living in Surrey.

[hk20000]

here's the cheapest house in vancouver for sale . Only $628,000

http://www.patsyhui.com/photos/ve-taunton-5233-main.jpg

PatsyHui.com: Your Real Estate Expert (http://www.patsyhui.com/display.php?restype=res1&aid=bc179eb1045514b9ca57adafeae6385c)

Has a huge right of way which means they really can't build much if it ever burns down.
Also, I believe it's a sewer line underneath.

It will probably sell for above asking. LOL

Not many other houses under $1 million right now. Mostly tear downs on busy streets.

Funny my client was looking at it. He can't justify it given that the storm sewer (at least not crap sewer) under there takes priority if the hose is in need of repairs you might be forced to demolish the home for the sewerage.

And yes it was sold well above asking.

[twitchyzero]

it's been a while since I've driven into the residential areas in Richmond, are ditches still pretty common?

[hk20000]

Depending on the area. They are more common in the cheaper hoods.

[punkwax]

I think you're a retard for spending the best years of your life working rather than living

I have a very happy work/life ratio, thank you very much. A beautiful wife and three children to enjoy it with as well. #feelsgoodman

I'm just saying that choosing to make ~150k less per annum to live an extra 6 hours a day as a "hipster" is fucking retarded. Make that money now and do less when you're older and less capable. If I were your dad I would smack you. Fuck, even if I was just a friend I would bitch slap you for making a decision like that. FailFish

[multicartual]

I'm just saying that choosing to make ~150k less per annum to live an extra 6 hours a day as a "hipster" is fucking retarded.


Just because you peaked early doesn't mean everyone will


Life keeps getting better and easier, why would I want to work MORE?

[multicartual]

Approximately 250 working days in a year


250 x 6 hours per day = 1500


1500 hours divided by 24 hours in a day = 62.5 full days per year less work


Also, I don't commute. My alarm clock is never set, when tired you sleep, when you wake up, you wake up.


Being able to pursue other activities and function on a higher brain level often goes unappreciated. Generally, from my experiences and a few other artists I know, your mind needs to be free of low to mid-level bullshit thoughts. You need to be free to think on a higher level to be creative. It is very hard to be creative when your time is spend doing bullshit work and not just living life and enjoying yourself, making observations and allowing the percolation to happen.


Right now I'm working a bit harder on getting my next book done, really want to start spending more time near Tofino... in a rental! :D

[multicartual]

National income floor for troubled times: Goar | Toronto Star (http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2015/03/08/national-income-floor-for-troubled-times-goar.html)


I like the idea of this.


People would be much more intelligent if they could just live life without having to work much. Work should be something more optional rather than the slavery that it actually is.

[iEatClams]

Here's an opinion piece from the Vancouver Courier today:

Spoilered for length.



tldr: the government makes a ton of money as a result of high real estate prices. They would be stupid to do anything to slow down the market.

Who says the government can't still continue to make money? I posted earlier in the thread about how Australia is imposing extra taxes on foreign investment, and how it's going to raise over $300 million dollars a year for Melbourne. That's not chump change.

These taxes haven't made the Australian housing market decline. There's too many rich people from china wanting to move their money out of there. It's not going to stop any time soon. As long as they keep coming, we can keep taxing them.

[iEatClams]

Gregor wants to have a speculation tax. I think it's a good idea, but Krusty won't do it.

Speculation, foreign buyers, cheap interest rates, house horny-ness, these things are not exclusive. It's not one or the other, it's the whole combination.


As citizen anger over foreign investment and skyrocketing real estate prices boils over in Metro Vancouver, Mayor Gregor Robertson has called on Premier Christy Clark to intervene in property markets with a “speculation tax.”

Robertson’s office said Friday afternoon that the mayor told Clark in the past week that the province needs to take action.

His surprising policy announcement — seemingly the first time Vancouver’s mayor has called for direct government intervention in the city’s booming housing market — comes as a growing number of citizens have demanded actions like those taken in Australia, or Hong Kong.

“We definitely need taxation tools that discourage speculation on real estate,” a statement from Robertson says. “It’s clear that rampant speculation on real estate is driving up prices in Vancouver. Vancouver needs the B.C. Government to take action on creating a speculation tax and recognize that we need a fair and level playing field to make housing more affordable for residents in Vancouver, and throughout the province.”

Robertson was not available for interviews Friday afternoon.

The call for a tax comes less than a week after Robertson sold his Kitsilano townhouse after 21 months of ownership, for a profit of more than $223,000.

Frustration at being blocked out of Vancouver home ownership is rising among young professionals. Recently a number of people have rallied around the #DontHave1Million campaign on Twitter – and the group is behind a rally for affordability planned in downtown Vancouver Sunday.

And so far 24,000 people have signed an online petition demanding action from Clark and Robertson on foreign investment – seen by many as the root cause of spiking real estate prices.

“The housing needs of Greater Vancouver residents are more important than the profit margins of foreign speculators,” the petition states. “Australia has already restricted foreign investment in residential real estate—what are we waiting for?”

Vancouver council has tasked city staff with studying whether Vancouver has a problem of vacant properties due to investment. But Robertson and his government have stressed that they don’t believe foreign investment is the cause of the city’s skyrocketing unaffordability. The city has limited policy tools to limit speculation, according to Robertson and Vision Coun. Geoff Meggs, who have argued the provincial and federal government should take the lead on questions around spiking real estate prices and concerns of absentee ownership and money laundering in B.C. Property.

Premier Clark was asked recently by reporters if she would consider taking action on foreign investment.

“By trying to move foreign buyers out of the market, housing prices overall will drop,” Clark said. “That’s good for first-time home buyers but not for anybody who is depending on the equity in their home to maybe get a loan or use that to finance some other projects.”

The ministry of finance responded with a statement late Friday, saying that "governments need to be careful that any tax would have the desired effect, without undermining the equity that people may have built up in their homes."

The ministry added that it targets those who need the most help with its programs, pointing out that the First Time Home Buyers' Program recently increased its threshold to reduce or eliminate property taxes on first homes to $475,000 from $425,000.

Vancouver mayor calls on provincial government to bring in 'speculation tax' on real estate (http://www.theprovince.com/business/Gregor+Robertson+calls+provincial+government+bring/11076030/story.html)

[godwin]

Honestly why does Christy Clarke has to do it? Also she hasn't said she won't do it has she? It is a Vancouver problem.. there are plenty of other places in BC where prices are low. Heck, even in Tri cities etc the price are still reasonable.

Gregor is a populist and all posturing and no substance... much like the 10k cash control through the border, anyone who read the law will immediately figure out a few ways to get around it. I think it is intention just to placate people but in reality doesn't do anything.

Gregor wants to have a speculation tax. I think it's a good idea, but Krusty won't do it.

Speculation, foreign buyers, cheap interest rates, house horny-ness, these things are not exclusive. It's not one or the other, it's the whole combination.

[ziggyx]

^ I think because it falls under the provincial or federal jurisdiction. I'm not 100% sure though, I could be wrong

[godwin]

No, Vancouver can use municipal taxes if they wish, just like how what they did with Olympic village. Land use is a municipal issue. In fact he wants to preserve housing stock? I would suggest they just use city inspectors to see which house is empty etc. Much more cost efficient than setting a new provincial system for bureacrats in Victoria to wait for all the resutls in Vancouver.

Why should the rest of the province do the work while Vancouver whines about it?

Gregor wants to draw Clarke into this in case it back fires and Vancouverites show up en mass at his apartment with torches and pitchforks, he has someone else to blame. Not everyone has a diverisfied portfolio like he does. He probbably heard about the Chinese Lehman investors too.

^ I think because it falls under the provincial or federal jurisdiction. I'm not 100% sure though, I could be wrong

[willystyle]

The same crowd that elected bike boy in is the same crowd that's complaining about Vancouver real estate prices. :rolleyes:

[Tone Loc]

The same crowd that elected bike boy in is the same crowd that's complaining about Vancouver real estate prices. :rolleyes:

This. Such an ingenious plan.

Cater to greenies, hippies, and hipsters on the lower end of the snack bracket by promoting cycling, public transit, and "eco" initiatives, while simultaneously screwing them over by catering to developers/contractors/construction companies, real estate agencies, and foreign investors who represent the upper end of the snack bracket.... somehow, Robertson managed to reconcile two parties who hate each other into voting for the same guy.

I hate Gregor Robertson with a passion, but I can't deny he is cunning as fuck.

[multicartual]

I <3 bike lanes

[Everymans]

Read every comment in this thread then realized i had just wasted a Saturday night and the only thing I can fully take away is that You all need to stop bitching about the weather. Every time I hear someone complain that it supposedly rains 8 months of the year I feel the need to brief them on the forecast on the rest of the country. Part of the reason why the desirability is so high in this city is because of the weather. you might think it's gloomy in winter, but if you go to anywhere else in the country not near the south west coast you will realize what real gloominess is. The type of shit weather were you can't even reach your mailbox because it's under 4 feet of snow. you have to let your car run for 10 minutes every morning just so the engine doesn't seize...

Anyone know a city that has found a relaxed mix between everything vancouver has and has managed to control the housing markets? Is there anywhere that young people can realistically afford a house and survive? I've heard mentioning of seattle and portland but both of those cities aren't thriving like they once were, and getting a visa isn't really an option for most canucks.

[twitchyzero]

just because the climate here is better than rest of Canada doesn't make it desirable for everyone. for me it's not even the rain, moreso the gloom when you're waking up for work and it's pitch black, then getting off work and already pitch black again...it gets to the point where I feel guilty not taking advantage of the sun we get in the summer when I'm working/studying.

on the flip side:

you want sun? ok move to asia and be prepare to sweat your ass off with the humidity not to mention poor air quality. Hope you're OK with a fact-paced society because you won't last a day with a west coast mentality thinking your weekend starts Thursday afternoon.

ok you want dry sunny days? move to Oz and enjoy the extra UV from the ozone hole... or move to the deserts of New Mexico/Arizona/Nevada where you won't last 15 minutes outside during summer.

there are mild sunny places but their real estate ain't cheap either, but at least it's worth it. Good luck getting naturalized PR though.

I feel PNW is great because of the distinct seasonal weather (winter not so much...unlike most Canadians I wanted to see more snow in recent years). If you go live in LA, palm trees are nice but you get bored of them and you'll start to miss the autumn leaves, cherry blossoms in Vancouver.

[buhdeh]

Good.

We don't need more whiners (losers) crowded in the the Lower Mainland anyway.
Either shut up/quit rubbernecking what others do with their money OR LEAVE ALREADY
either way, give it 5 more years, by 2020 rich mainland Chinese and other groups will NOT have the incentive to even invest in your backwater little town called vancouver. By then, even if houses drops back to 2000's prices, you poor broke losers still cannot gather enough money for a downpayment.

vancouver is mediocre and the people living in vancouver are small minded people that have no world views. stupid silly canadians

lol mainlanders

[underscore]

Read every comment in this thread then realized i had just wasted a Saturday night and the only thing I can fully take away is that You all need to stop bitching about the weather. Every time I hear someone complain that it supposedly rains 8 months of the year I feel the need to brief them on the forecast on the rest of the country. Part of the reason why the desirability is so high in this city is because of the weather. you might think it's gloomy in winter, but if you go to anywhere else in the country not near the south west coast you will realize what real gloominess is. The type of shit weather were you can't even reach your mailbox because it's under 4 feet of snow. you have to let your car run for 10 minutes every morning just so the engine doesn't seize...

Have you never been to any part of BC during the winter? All of the interior south of Prince George has better weather than the Lower Mainland all year long.

[multicartual]

Have you never been to any part of BC during the winter? All of the interior south of Prince George has better weather than the Lower Mainland all year long.


I don't even think they have skinny jeans or marijuana dispensaries anywhere east of Main street :rukidding:

[Nomomo]

Good way to tell if you can afford to live in vancouver is if your renting..... you better have savings and a growing net worth. If not its time to make changes.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

i've come to realise that owning is just like any other investment.

if you're knowledgeable in investing instruments, you don't need to fall back on property.

although i must admit, property is the simplest. you own something tangible and you live in it. it's like the most "real" investment you can have. I guess it being the most "real" it also makes it the least anxiety infused investment as well.

like someone else said in this thread, most people duno anything about investing, and therefore that obviously makes owning a home exponentially more appealing.

i mean, yes, right now it is a good investment, you're likely to make pretty good returns... but i did some math and, renting is actually cheaper... and way less responsibility LOL. you don't have to maintain jack shit or care about anything. you just move when you don't like it. that's it.

now that being said...

what if you've got other investments that are making double or triple what property investments make? lol...

wouldn't you just fuckin dump your money in those things?

people always say diversify... but there's a lot of investment instruments out there. enough to satisfy "diversity" without even going into real estate.

That being said, again... i still feel buying and selling property isnt easy and liquid enough.

i can't just press a button and see all the bid/asks and sell it right away with one click. lol. it's still such a headache. i could be doing tons of other shit with that money, making much more.

but i must admit, there is a little bit of security knowing you can't be kicked outta a place you own. no matter how low the likely hood of being kicked out as a tenant is.

it's all about personal investing style and what satisfies you. it's not always about the smartest thing. diversity doesn't just include hard investments, but the style people invest their money with.

crane style! drunken tiger style!

[Soundy]

Funny my client was looking at it. He can't justify it given that the storm sewer (at least not crap sewer) under there takes priority if the hose is in need of repairs you might be forced to demolish the home for the sewerage.

And yes it was sold well above asking.

I can't imagine that anyone would buy that house, FOR THE HOUSE. The value is all in the land under it; the house is a liability at best.

[multicartual]

Good way to tell if you can afford to live in vancouver is if your renting..... you better have savings and a growing net worth. If not its time to make changes.


Dude just shut the fuck up, you're the one who is so scared of women you got a vasectomy so they won't "steal your money"


Oh, and it is "you're" not "your"


Idiot

[ForbiddenX]

Kind of what Ulic was saying: For young adults, stock market a better investment than home ownership - The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/for-young-adults-stock-market-a-better-investment-than-home-ownership/article24583446/)

I've been renting ever since I moved out of Vancouver and don't think I'd plan on putting a down payment on a house or condo. A few people I know have locked down a unit in a building that won't be built until 2016-2018... I haven't really invested a lot but $75k over 3 years in a unit doesn't seem worth it at all since you can probably get a better ROI elsewhere.

[Mr.HappySilp]

People also have to realize that all these investors that are buying up houses and apartments aren't renting them out. They simply sit empty. So if you keep having investors buying up and not renting them, there are fewer units out there for rent. Fewer units for rent, rent will go up. Give it another 10 years and rents are going to so high you can only rent a room in a basement for $1400. All those they are saying housing price won't affect me coz I am renting is all wrong lol.

[Hondaracer]

Government intervention will occur before you're renting studio suites for $1800 a month

[Spoon]

Give it another 10 years and rents are going to so high you can only rent a room in a basement for $1400.

Because World Class City :pokerface:

[sonick]

Kind of what Ulic was saying: For young adults, stock market a better investment than home ownership - The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/for-young-adults-stock-market-a-better-investment-than-home-ownership/article24583446/)

I am a proponent of investing over home ownership on a strictly financial sense, but many of these articles state things like:

The average national house price rose about 5.8 per cent annually on average over the past 30 years, which is a great result from an asset that is supposed to merely keep up with inflation. But the Canadian stock market averaged 9 per cent annually over that period with dividends included.

I am genuinely curious at the same stats but strictly limited to the GVRD rather than national, I think that stat would paint a different picture.

[blkgsr]

good thing mayor moonbeam sold his house before he said he'd try to curb housing prices....

[CRS]

good thing mayor moonbeam sold his house before he said he'd try to curb housing prices....

I wouldn't get too excited.

Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson’s call on Friday for the provincial government to impose a tax on housing speculation has all the look of a not-very-elaborate set-up. It's a sop thrown to a furious public, and nobody's buying.

After all, the mayor just repeated a proposal made hours earlier by condo sales magnate and master ventriloquist, Bob Rennie. Rennie is one of Robertson’s most powerful financial backers and and stalwart supporter of Premier Christy Clark. Respect.

The unexpected arrival of Rennie's bouncing new proposal suggests both the Vancouver and B.C. governments are getting jumpy about the clamouring masses now openly demanding government action on the global capital flooding into Metro Vancouver’s residential real estate.

In the midst of a white-hot housing market, almost 25,000 have signed an online petition calling for restrictions on foreign buying. A major demonstration is planned for Sunday, organized by a group using the hashtag #Donthave1million.

Clark herself poured on the gasoline last week. "By moving foreign owners out of the market, housing prices will drop," she said, neatly summarizing the problem. But with unwavering loyalty to her base on the leafy boulevards of Shaughnessy, the premier cheerily proclaimed, "That’s good for first-time home buyers but not for anybody who is depending on the equity in their home to finance some other projects.”

However, she added brightly, the government remains “open to new ideas.”

Cue Bob Rennie.

And note how swiftly the Vancouver mayor adopted Rennie's proposal, in the complete absence of any substantiation by independent experts. After years of claiming we lack sufficient data for a major policy response to the affordability crisis, Robertson reversed himself overnight.

Where's the evidence that our real problem is investor flipping rather than the influx of global capital? Nonexistent. The provincial government doesn’t track foreign buying in real estate transactions, and it’s not going to.

On May 7, Housing Minister Rich Coleman declared that B.C. won't gather data that might tell us what's going on in our own market. Unlike such socialist sissies as Hong Kong, Singapore, Sydney and London that do track foreign buying, B.C.’s government knows the value of wilful blindness.

The provincial government doesn’t want data about global capital, and doesn't want the public to have it either.

And where is Mayor Gregor Robertson on this ludicrous provincial obstinacy? Where was he when Premier Christy Clark pitted west-side homeowners against the working poor and struggling middle class gasping for relief? Nowhere in sight.

Robertson's speculation tax proposal isn't meant to solve a housing problem, but rather the political problem of an increasingly livid public.

Repeating Bob Rennie's policy ideas will only make things worse. According to a recent Insights West poll, 73 per cent of Vancouverites think developers and lobbyists have too much influence at city hall.

They're right.

Turning developer talking points into government policy is a phony cure. Gregor Robertson must demand data and real answers from the province and the feds.

As the South China Morning Post’s Ian Young recently tweeted, affordable housing is Vancouver's most pressing social justice issue.

It's long past time that Mayor Robertson made it his.


Mayor's speculation tax is a set-up | Vancouver Observer (http://www.vancouverobserver.com/opinion/mayors-speculation-tax-set)

[godwin]

I find it is a bit rich coming from Rennie. He had done more than anyone in Vancouver to gentrify China town, East side. Why didn't he do anything for the residents before he booted them out?

I got a feeling Rennie realises that he is running out of schmucks to "use" his system, also realising City of Vancouver and his besttie the mayor is broke and saddled with paying off their debt for Olympics for the next few decades. He wants to get some extra cash from the province and the Feddies instead.

What he is asking is social justice for the well connected. or I am too old and cynical?

Of course it is a setup.. I am glad Christy Clarke didn't waste her time responding to trolls.


I wouldn't get too excited.



Mayor's speculation tax is a set-up | Vancouver Observer (http://www.vancouverobserver.com/opinion/mayors-speculation-tax-set)

[Timpo]

oh shut the fuck up why are poor people whining? Just move to somewhere else. I know it sucks but Vancouver is not the first one.

Maybe Vancouver is becoming one of globally recognized big city, like Tokyo, Rome, Paris, Shanghai, New York, etc.

As we know, Japan was not even close to the USA only like 50 years ago in terms of modernization and economy. However in 1970s and 1980s Japan grew at astonishing rate and Tokyo suddenly became one of the biggest city in the world.

Buying a house, food, everything is super expensive in Tokyo.
Yep living cost is just so much over there and all the poor Japanese people(not necessarily poor, but supposedly middle class) got pushed away to other prefectures and a lot of rich Japanese executives moved in, including American and European executives and rich foreign people. If you look around the street in Tokyo, there's lots of Lamborghini, Mercedes, BMW, Maserati...just like how Vancouver and Richmond are becoming.

To be on fair side, those rich people worked their ass off and had no personal time. Took huge risk in their lives to get up to that level.
If you're just working 9am to 5pm jobs 5 days a week, living in a world class city isn't really going to happen...unless you make huge salary.

[Mr.HappySilp]

oh shut the fuck up why are poor people whining? Just move to somewhere else. I know it sucks but Vancouver is not the first one.

Maybe Vancouver is becoming one of globally recognized big city, like Tokyo, Rome, Paris, Shanghai, New York, etc.

As we know, Japan was not even close to the USA only like 50 years ago in terms of modernization and economy. However in 1970s and 1980s Japan grew at astonishing rate and Tokyo suddenly became one of the biggest city in the world.

Buying a house, food, everything is super expensive in Tokyo.
Yep living cost is just so much over there and all the poor Japanese people(not necessarily poor, but supposedly middle class) got pushed away to other prefectures and a lot of rich Japanese executives moved in, including American and European executives and rich foreign people. If you look around the street in Tokyo, there's lots of Lamborghini, Mercedes, BMW, Maserati...just like how Vancouver and Richmond are becoming.

To be on fair side, those rich people worked their ass off and had no personal time. Took huge risk in their lives to get up to that level.
If you're just working 9am to 5pm jobs 5 days a week, living in a world class city isn't really going to happen...unless you make huge salary.

Say that to the kid who is using daddy and mommy's money coz there are no shortage of those kids in Vancouver. Law what law? So I crash my Lamborghini in doing so ran over someone? No problem I just go buy a new one next day.

[adambomb]

Say that to the kid who is using daddy and mommy's money coz there are no shortage of those kids in Vancouver. Law what law? So I crash my Lamborghini in doing so ran over someone? No problem I just go buy a new one next day.


What the fuck are you talking about?
What does this have to do with the mass exodus of Vancouverites?
Speak english filthy mainlander!


:speakeng:

[godwin]

I think it depends on the pace on change.. for Vancouver it is a tad too quick. vs Tokyo. Also Japan have "death taxes", people who inherit houses often have to pay a huge chunk of inheritance tax. We don't have this in Canada. That evens the playing field a lot.

eg When I bought my townhouse in Coal harbour it was 2001 and it was $600k and my income then was in the high 80k. Now the price went up nearly a magnitude but income of any sector haven't gone anywhere that much..

If you have got in early, great for you. If you haven't, you pretty much have to give up on the idea of owning in Vancouver.

This is an interesting article (http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/05/the-g-word-gentrification-and-its-many-meanings/394016/) saying rise in housing cost around the world is due to hedge funds, which I would say is partially true. That is a sector where wages have increased substantially but unfortunately Vancouver is no where near the center of.

oh shut the fuck up why are poor people whining? Just move to somewhere else. I know it sucks but Vancouver is not the first one.

Maybe Vancouver is becoming one of globally recognized big city, like Tokyo, Rome, Paris, Shanghai, New York, etc.

As we know, Japan was not even close to the USA only like 50 years ago in terms of modernization and economy. However in 1970s and 1980s Japan grew at astonishing rate and Tokyo suddenly became one of the biggest city in the world.

Buying a house, food, everything is super expensive in Tokyo.
Yep living cost is just so much over there and all the poor Japanese people(not necessarily poor, but supposedly middle class) got pushed away to other prefectures and a lot of rich Japanese executives moved in, including American and European executives and rich foreign people. If you look around the street in Tokyo, there's lots of Lamborghini, Mercedes, BMW, Maserati...just like how Vancouver and Richmond are becoming.

To be on fair side, those rich people worked their ass off and had no personal time. Took huge risk in their lives to get up to that level.
If you're just working 9am to 5pm jobs 5 days a week, living in a world class city isn't really going to happen...unless you make huge salary.

[CharlesInCharge]

In this thread, a settler nation with no education of history still believes in the "Canadian dream"... but atleast the peasants of the past knew who their overlords were.
http://i.imgur.com/ZG3HWI5.jpg

[skiiipi]

I think it depends on the pace on change.. for Vancouver it is a tad too quick. vs Tokyo. Also Japan have "death taxes", people who inherit houses often have to pay a huge chunk of inheritance tax. We don't have this in Canada. That evens the playing field a lot.

eg When I bought my townhouse in Coal harbour it was 2001 and it was $600k and my income then was in the high 80k. Now the price went up nearly a magnitude but income of any sector haven't gone anywhere that much..

If you have got in early, great for you. If you haven't, you pretty much have to give up on the idea of owning in Vancouver.

This is an interesting article (http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/05/the-g-word-gentrification-and-its-many-meanings/394016/) saying rise in housing cost around the world is due to hedge funds, which I would say is partially true. That is a sector where wages have increased substantially but unfortunately Vancouver is no where near the center of.

yea but your networth probably went up with your housing price, so good on you for buying at the right time.

now imagine if a tax was imposed on "foreign ownership", your housing price will likely drop, so will your equity in your house.

at the end of the day, I think a dual income family making ~150K combine income can have a decent life in van or the closer suburbs like burnaby/richmond etc. any less than that though it can be difficult.
as for prime real estate like DT or west side van....you will need to be the top 1% to be able to live there..no different than lower manhattan NY, Nobs Hill SF etc

[multicartual]

as for prime real estate like DT or west side van....you will need to be the top 1% to be able to live there..no different than lower manhattan NY, Nobs Hill SF etc


Anything less than 200k / year downtown is lower class for sure

[Soundy]

In this thread, a settler nation with no education of history still believes in the "Canadian dream"... but atleast the peasants of the past knew who their overlords were.
Tic Tac, is that you?

[CharlesInCharge]

Im not Tic Tac... but I would like my fail button back. :smug:

[4444]

oh shut the fuck up why are poor people whining? Just move to somewhere else. I know it sucks but Vancouver is not the first one.

Maybe Vancouver is becoming one of globally recognized big city, like Tokyo, Rome, Paris, Shanghai, New York, etc.




the problem isn't that vancouver is turning into said world class city, if it were, rents would go up in lock step with housing prices AND this would be partially driven by an increase in economic activity (look at the cities you have mentioned, plus london, singapore, etc. - all economic hubs).

vancouver has gone up based on speculation and capital risk flight (though i find that an ironic term, as capital is very much at risk in vancouver).

in the loooooong run, it will settle down, so you can either rent and enjoy life (multicartual, myself, many others), or you can complain about it... with no difference made

the great thing about the free world is that you have options to invest your money in loads of different places, and also to rent loads of different places to live. maybe they're not all ideal, but life isn't perfect, it's about being happy

[4444]

Here is the exact reason I would never get worked up about Vancouver's real estate prices:

Barbara Yaffe: Real estate ?pandemonium? (http://www.vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/Barbara+Yaffe+Real+estate+pandemonium/11081722/story.html)

with the key passage being:

"Ford’s own grandfather purchased a Richmond home in 1961 for $15,500. It is now valued at more than $1 million."


But looking closely, if you put $15,500 in the S&P500 in 1961, it would be worth $2.9M today (simplified calc using CAGR of the Stock Market: Annualized Returns of the S&P 500 (http://www.moneychimp.com/features/market_cagr.htm))

now, there's a lot to consider here (rent vs own price differentials, not being able to mortgage the $15,500, etc.) - but the point i'm making is this - the media is spoon feeding you one bias side of a story, in the end of the day, rents are relatively ok, so rent and be happy, or buy and be happy - just don't worry about something outside of your control!

[underscore]

Maybe Vancouver is becoming one of globally recognized big city, like Tokyo, Rome, Paris, Shanghai, New York, etc.

Vancouver is not even close to any of those cities, I'm sorry but it just isn't. Claiming that it is sounds like something a tourism agency or politician would say.

But looking closely, if you put $15,500 in the S&P500 in 1961, it would be worth $2.9M today (simplified calc using CAGR of the Stock Market: Annualized Returns of the S&P 500 (http://www.moneychimp.com/features/market_cagr.htm))

If you massively oversimplify the comparison that sounds great and all, but next to nobody is buying a house with cash so good luck getting a mortgage just to stick it in the stock market for 54 years. Meanwhile you still need to pay for that mortgage and pay for a place to live since your mortgage is sitting in the stock market.

You also need to consider this line from that page you linked

Over the very long run, the stock market has had an inflation-adjusted annualized return rate of between six and seven percent.

That sounds good when interest rates are lower than 3-4%, but if you check the historical rates (https://www.ratehub.ca/mortgage-rate-history-canada download the last one in the chart) even if you got prime you were having a pretty shitty time up until 2010.

[Mr.HappySilp]

yea but your networth probably went up with your housing price, so good on you for buying at the right time.

now imagine if a tax was imposed on "foreign ownership", your housing price will likely drop, so will your equity in your house.

at the end of the day, I think a dual income family making ~150K combine income can have a decent life in van or the closer suburbs like burnaby/richmond etc. any less than that though it can be difficult.
as for prime real estate like DT or west side van....you will need to be the top 1% to be able to live there..no different than lower manhattan NY, Nobs Hill SF etc

BBY is not affordable. Parent's house could easily sell for 900k+. Is not even luxury or anything. Just a regular 2100sq ft 2 storey housed located around North Burnaby. Our neighbour sold his house down the block for 1.2m+ is bigger for sure but not worth that much. Same with my parent's house.Even Coquitlam, New West housing price are pretty high. Most likely you need to move out to Port Coq, Port Moody, Surrey, Detla or even White Rock. Any other place for a 1bd apartment out in BBY is around 300k+

[skiiipi]

BBY is not affordable. Parent's house could easily sell for 900k+. Is not even luxury or anything. Just a regular 2100sq ft 2 storey housed located around North Burnaby. Our neighbour sold his house down the block for 1.2m+ is bigger for sure but not worth that much. Same with my parent's house.Even Coquitlam, New West housing price are pretty high. Most likely you need to move out to Port Coq, Port Moody, Surrey, Detla or even White Rock. Any other place for a 1bd apartment out in BBY is around 300k+

Even with a combined salary of 150-160ish?
Two professionals in middle management level jobs (or trades) can make $70-80k easy. That's approx $8000 per month of combines net income. You are telling me that can't support a mortgage of a $700k mortgage (200k down payment). Btw no sarcasm here.. Honest question.

I mean I know if u make $40-50k a year in van u are pretty much stuck to renting or living out in Abbotsford or whatever, but at the 70-80k (provided it's dual income of around that amount) it should be doable.

They key is dual income, give the progressive tax system, 2 person making 70k each will take home more than 1 person making 140k while the spouse or partner makes zero.

[VR6GTI]

Even with a combined salary of 150-160ish?
Two professionals in middle management level jobs (or trades) can make $70-80k easy. That's approx $8000 per month of combines net income. You are telling me that can't support a mortgage of a $700k mortgage (200k down payment). Btw no sarcasm here.. Honest question.

I mean I know if u make $40-50k a year in van u are pretty much stuck to renting or living out in Abbotsford or whatever, but at the 70-80k (provided it's dual income of around that amount) it should be doable.

They key is dual income, give the progressive tax system, 2 person making 70k each will take home more than 1 person making 140k while the spouse or partner makes zero.
Alot of people don't have 200k to throw down. So they put down 100k and have payments of $5000 inc property tax, hydro, etc. Even at a combined income thats alot of $$$

[multicartual]

Alot of people don't have 200k to throw down. So they put down 100k and have payments of $5000 inc property tax, hydro, etc. Even at a combined income thats alot of $$$


Imagine if they kept that 100k in the bank and, you know, lived their lives while renting a BEAUTIFUL PENTHOUSE at the Waterfall building?


2 Level Penthouse + Private Rooftop @ The Waterfall Building (http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/van/apa/4951051544.html)


Buying property is so overrated, it is a status symbol more than anything

[4444]

That sounds good when interest rates are lower than 3-4%, but if you check the historical rates (https://www.ratehub.ca/mortgage-rate-history-canada download the last one in the chart) even if you got prime you were having a pretty shitty time up until 2010.

inflation adjusted return = all you need to know.

i have no idea what you're saying - real estate basically only just beats inflation, i'd rather have 6+% real return, but that's just me.

[underscore]

inflation adjusted return = all you need to know.

i have no idea what you're saying - real estate basically only just beats inflation, i'd rather have 6+% real return, but that's just me.

You skipped the main point of my post, which is that next to nobody buys a house cash. So that $15.5k from 1961 would have to be borrowed, and what you would be paying to borrow that money would outweigh what you are gaining from investing that money. On top of that, a mortgage isn't just an investment, everyone needs to live somewhere.

[sonick]

But looking closely, if you put $15,500 in the S&P500 in 1961, it would be worth $2.9M today (simplified calc using CAGR of the Stock Market: Annualized Returns of the S&P 500 (http://www.moneychimp.com/features/market_cagr.htm))

Unbiased eh? You probably just 'forgot' to check off 'adjusted for inflation' then...

Without inflation = $2.9m
With inflation = $373,395

[westopher]

Imagine if they kept that 100k in the bank and, you know, lived their lives while renting a BEAUTIFUL PENTHOUSE at the Waterfall building?


2 Level Penthouse + Private Rooftop @ The Waterfall Building (http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/van/apa/4951051544.html)


Buying property is so overrated, it is a status symbol more than anything
Fuck. That place is awesome. Wish wife was done school right now and I'd jump on that.

[multicartual]

Fuck. That place is awesome. Wish wife was done school right now and I'd jump on that.


Next time I move it will be either the Waterfall building or to Tofino!!!


Maybe I will move to Tofino for a winter and come back for a summer at the Waterfall


Not going to move probably for another year though :)

[Hondaracer]

decent little spot but 950sq feet for $2700? :/

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

oh shut the fuck up why are poor people whining?

he does make a point with this statement.

i bet they don't have threads like these in the Ferrari and Lamborghini forms.

LOL!!!

[multicartual]

decent little spot but 950sq feet for $2700? :/


Lifestyle...


Could get 3000 sq feet in Langley for $1700 but then:

1. No bike lanes
2. Chain stores
3. Drive everywhere
4. Bland people
5. Anonymous community due to size

etc etc

Pros:

1. Can work on own car
2. Big yard for dog
3. Large house
4. Quiet

Living right in Granville Island would be freakin' sweeeeeeet!!!

[6o4__boi]

https://i.imgflip.com/m13jy.gif (https://imgflip.com/gif/m13jy)


lol coincidence? i think not.

[punkwax]

I find it funny how multi considers owning land to be for "status" yet approves of $2700 penthouse for "lifestyle".

I'm not denying penthouses are awesome, they are, but owning a house in the burbs is far less about status compared to renting a DT penthouse if you ask me.

[multicartual]

I find it funny how multi considers owning land to be for "status" yet approves of $2700 penthouse for "lifestyle".

I'm not denying penthouses are awesome, they are, but owning a house in the burbs is far less about status compared to renting a DT penthouse if you ask me.


Fair enough, let me counter that:


1. 200k down on a house in Vancouver, 10k left in savings and a 700k mortgage = high status for owning in Vancouver but lifestyle can be hamstrung due to location, responsibilities, lack of community of similar people

Still, a proud achievement for many to say "I own this land, bitch! Get off my lawn!"


2. 210k in the bank still, renting $2,700 condo = low status for renting but high on style and connected via close proximity to great food, night life, bike lanes, more likely to have a community of like-minded people, low on responsibilities of home maintenance allowing for focus on other things, hobbies, travel


Having a lot of money on paper never really interests me, having a lot of experiences within a highly dynamic lifestyle does!

Some people really get off on having a lot more stuff and status than other people.

[meme405]

Fair enough, let me counter that:


1. 200k down on a house in Vancouver, 10k left in savings and a 700k mortgage = high status for owning in Vancouver but lifestyle can be hamstrung due to location, responsibilities, lack of community of similar people

Still, a proud achievement for many to say "I own this land, bitch! Get off my lawn!"


2. 210k in the bank still, renting $2,700 condo = low status for renting but high on style and connected via close proximity to great food, night life, bike lanes, more likely to have a community of like-minded people, low on responsibilities of home maintenance allowing for focus on other things, hobbies, travel


Having a lot of money on paper never really interests me, having a lot of experiences within a highly dynamic lifestyle does!

Some people really get off on having a lot more stuff and status than other people.

Lol I don't think paying almost 3k a month in rent will make anyone think you are "low status".

Low status would be living in a cardboard box and snorting 3k worth of coke every month.

[underscore]

bike lanes

Mofo this is a car forum. :whistle:

hobbies

Depends on the type of hobbies you have, many of mine would not be viable if I was renting an apartment. You end up SOL if you want to do anything that requires more than a storage locker worth of space.

[multicartual]

Lol I don't think paying almost 3k a month in rent will make anyone think you are "low status".


A lot of people who own property will look at you as a "faker" because you can't actually afford to buy. Social circles are often majority renters or owners, not very common to have "mixed" groups. Believe it or not!

[multicartual]

Mofo this is a car forum. :whistle:


Biking keeps the weight off, you can take the spare tire out of your trunk OR exercise and lose 20 lbs on Moonbeam's bike lanes.

:smug:

[sonick]

Multicartual needs to get his hands on this guy: Choices ? Greater Fool ? Authored by Garth Turner ? The Troubled Future of Real Estate (http://www.greaterfool.ca/2015/05/26/choices-10/)

Josh is 28, single, gainfully employed ($125,000 a year) but lacks the one thing he says would make him a chick magnet. “No house. But I want to change that.”

He rents for $1,250 a month, has no debts, and is looking to buy a $300,000 townhouse in a distant GTA suburb. “My assets are $30,000 saved in my TFSA and $25,000 in an RRSP. Plus I have a few thousand in a locked-in account from an old job. So,” he asks, “is it a mistake to buy?”

Imagine the coke-fueled, STD-ridden possibilities...

[Manic!]

Buying property is so overrated, it is a status symbol more than anything

LOL!!!! you keep believing that but you are wrong.

[multicartual]

LOL!!!! you keep believing that but you are wrong.

In the very recent past it has been certainly true, owning a house was a solid investment and a necessity for "adulthood"


Now, I believe, people are willing to trade ownership for lifestyle.


Imagine the coke-fueled, STD-ridden possibilities...


Life on the edge is -incredibly- fun, just don't fall off!

[Spoon]

In the very recent past it has been certainly true, owning a house was a solid investment and a necessity for "adulthood"

Now, I believe, people are willing to trade ownership for lifestyle.


Don't lie to yourself. People are just priced out because property prices and income growth are just disproportional.

[multicartual]

Don't lie to yourself. People are just priced out because property prices and income growth are just disproportional.


Oh fuck yeah, I'd need to make 250k a year before I could begin to afford a million dollar mortgage.

There is hardly anything nice enough under 1 million to WANT to buy.

[GS8]

lol mainlanders

Putting the 'Mainland' in 'Lower Mainland'

[EmperorIS]

lol @ blaming mainlanders for your own short comings
they just know how to play the game

boooooohoooooooooo i can't live in in the city i grew up in... waaaaahhhhhhhhh

you think those mainlanders got to where they are at by staying in their own village?

fucking self entitled people ... you can't afford living somewhere you want? then use your brain and make something out of your self

the people complaining don't have what it takes to make it anyways

[Special K]

Imagine if they kept that 100k in the bank and, you know, lived their lives while renting a BEAUTIFUL PENTHOUSE at the Waterfall building?


2 Level Penthouse + Private Rooftop @ The Waterfall Building (http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/van/apa/4951051544.html)


Buying property is so overrated, it is a status symbol more than anything

We almost bought a penthouse for $1.05m in one of those Cambie corridor buildings. 1000 sq ft with 750 sq ft roof top.

The lifestyle/idea/location is great (close to everything) but I really want land instead.

With a 30 year $800k mortgage, I would need to rent it out for at least $3300 to breakeven. That's if we have more than 1 kid and outgrow the place.

[GabAlmighty]

Looking to buy a place soon, looking in downtown Van is depressing.

[Mr.HappySilp]

https://youtu.be/OEgkqVbnv3E
At least we are only in 10th place.

[Tapioca]

Even with a combined salary of 150-160ish?
Two professionals in middle management level jobs (or trades) can make $70-80k easy. That's approx $8000 per month of combines net income. You are telling me that can't support a mortgage of a $700k mortgage (200k down payment). Btw no sarcasm here.. Honest question.


I threw out that number earlier in the thread too, but it all depends on what the couples's expenses are outside of the mortgage.

If the couple is early in their child rearing years, 1/3 or 1/2 of one spouse's salary could easily be eaten up by childcare costs. With the tax system now, it almost makes sense if one spouse stays at home because of income-splitting.

If the couple doesn't have some kind of RRSP plan or pension plan, they should aim to save 10-15% of their net income. They also need to save for their kids' RESPs which would be 5 grand a year (if they want to get the maximum grant). Insurance is also another thing they need to think about - residence, life, and critical illness. Insurance could easily be several hundred dollars a month if they have pre-existing medical conditions, or a family history. Finally, vehicle costs will likely be several hundred dollars a month, even if they lease something mundane, like a Toyota Rav 4 or Kia Sorrento. Or, I guess they could squeeze in two convertible car seats into a 1990s Honda Accord.

[Tone Loc]

lol @ blaming mainlanders for your own short comings
they just know how to play the game

boooooohoooooooooo i can't live in in the city i grew up in... waaaaahhhhhhhhh

you think those mainlanders got to where they are at by staying in their own village?

fucking self entitled people ... you can't afford living somewhere you want? then use your brain and make something out of your self

the people complaining don't have what it takes to make it anyways

The problem is that there ARE people who "use their brain", i.e., new doctors, lawyers, who are making six figure incomes who can't afford to live here. There was a big thing about it on social media about this exact thing a while back, and while obviously not everyone is being realistic with what they want, you can't honestly say that it is natural and good for Canadians that a single-family detached home will cost around a million dollars.

MY personal issue is that the government is sitting on its hands and knows the problem exists, but refuse to label it as a problem and let things get worse. The role of a government is to look after its own citizens and intervene when citizens are getting fucked over. That is the whole point of why citizenship is even important in the first place. Nearly every first-world country has strict foreign ownership laws (ironically, even China has them) and Canada is seriously lacking in that department.

You may not think it is a good thing for people to live near where they work, but basic logic dictates that this is a good thing.. less pollution, less congestion,
better quality of life, etc... maybe it's not a basic right but it shouldn't be mandatory to be making more than double Canada's average income to live within an hour of work (rush hour commute).

At the end of the day, if nobody in the lower snack bracket can afford to live in the GVRD what happens to all of the service industry? You may not think lower-class, young people etc are important but good luck going to a restaurant, getting coffee, even the people that work on your car, educate your children, take out your garbage, or do your landscaping ultimately won't be able to live here and those services are going to be quite rare...

[Mr.HappySilp]

lol @ blaming mainlanders for your own short comings
they just know how to play the game

boooooohoooooooooo i can't live in in the city i grew up in... waaaaahhhhhhhhh

you think those mainlanders got to where they are at by staying in their own village?

fucking self entitled people ... you can't afford living somewhere you want? then use your brain and make something out of your self

the people complaining don't have what it takes to make it anyways

Yes coz making money while fucking your own ppl is what we all should do. Lets all produce poisonous mike powder for our babies to use, lets all produce fake eggs, cancer causing cooking oil, let's sell rotten meat as new and the list goes on. Or better yet let's hire thousand of workers and make them work for next to nothing and if they go on strike I just have to police beat them till they listen coz I have the gov paid off.

Or what about the corruption going on where gov officials take brides from developers and manufacturers to turn a blind eye. If anyone go against it let's just lock them them or beat them to death. How about let's see apartments that's lacking the building code so that it will fall any sec.

But hey who cares about others as long as I am making the money I can totally discard human life and who cares about polluting my own country coz I got the $$$ now when my own country is all polluted and the air quality is so bad people have to wear a gas mask out, I will just move to Canada and start the cycle again.:rukidding:

[westopher]

I agree with everything you just posted, but don't fool yourself by limiting it to mainlanders. There are just as many subhuman Canadians fucking peoples lives up to steal every last penny they can to live the rich lifestyle, it's just slightly less flagrant here.

[EmperorIS]

Yes coz making money while fucking your own ppl is what we all should do. Lets all produce poisonous mike powder for our babies to use, lets all produce fake eggs, cancer causing cooking oil, let's sell rotten meat as new and the list goes on. Or better yet let's hire thousand of workers and make them work for next to nothing and if they go on strike I just have to police beat them till they listen coz I have the gov paid off.

Or what about the corruption going on where gov officials take brides from developers and manufacturers to turn a blind eye. If anyone go against it let's just lock them them or beat them to death. How about let's see apartments that's lacking the building code so that it will fall any sec.

But hey who cares about others as long as I am making the money I can totally discard human life and who cares about polluting my own country coz I got the $$$ now when my own country is all polluted and the air quality is so bad people have to wear a gas mask out, I will just move to Canada and start the cycle again.:rukidding:


lol you need to get your head out of the western propaganda machine

the shit you said shows you know very little of China let alone its economy. Yes, China have its problems with labor issues but literally so did every growing nation in the world. Its not like these Chinese companies purposely produce bad products to get people sick, but to stay competitive they had to cut down on certain cost.

Is it right? No. But they don't have a choice. China has to stay cheap in order to keep growing. China almost didn't even have a middle class 20 years ago so there will be sacrifices during people's upwards mobility. Same thing happen in Europe and the same thing happened in North America.

You can't think outside the box because you were taught to see China/communism as the evil nation that wants to take down western society and this translate on to how you view foreign Chinese investors.

Not every Chinese nationalist coming here stepped on its own people to get here. In fact, it is more than likely its WESTERN companies hiring Chinese workers on a razor thin margin to produce their products that is forcing them to keep wages and quality of life down.

Learn a thing or two first before you start judging with prejudice glasses. Western companies are likely just as evil as you see the Chinese companies, they just know how to hide it better.

[Manic!]

.....

[EmperorIS]

The problem is that there ARE people who "use their brain", i.e., new doctors, lawyers, who are making six figure incomes who can't afford to live here. There was a big thing about it on social media about this exact thing a while back, and while obviously not everyone is being realistic with what they want, you can't honestly say that it is natural and good for Canadians that a single-family detached home will cost around a million dollars.

MY personal issue is that the government is sitting on its hands and knows the problem exists, but refuse to label it as a problem and let things get worse. The role of a government is to look after its own citizens and intervene when citizens are getting fucked over. That is the whole point of why citizenship is even important in the first place. Nearly every first-world country has strict foreign ownership laws (ironically, even China has them) and Canada is seriously lacking in that department.

You may not think it is a good thing for people to live near where they work, but basic logic dictates that this is a good thing.. less pollution, less congestion,
better quality of life, etc... maybe it's not a basic right but it shouldn't be mandatory to be making more than double Canada's average income to live within an hour of work (rush hour commute).

At the end of the day, if nobody in the lower snack bracket can afford to live in the GVRD what happens to all of the service industry? You may not think lower-class, young people etc are important but good luck going to a restaurant, getting coffee, even the people that work on your car, educate your children, take out your garbage, or do your landscaping ultimately won't be able to live here and those services are going to be quite rare...

I totally agree with you.

I do think its important for people to live close to where they work, in fact, I am currently finding it hard looking for a place for myself. But these are the sacrifices I have to evaluate for comfort. I can't expect that "because I work there, I demand to live close to there" attitude. It is a luxury. Whether you can afford that luxury is a different story.

Yes, people living farther away can cause congestion and pollution, and that's why Vancouver needs that Yes vote for more and better public transit (this is another debate). If the public transit was sufficient, it wouldn't matter that much to live that close to work. People can spread out more, move to and develop new communities and perhaps even business and work will follow them. At that point, if people are willing to move out more, housing prices will start to balance itself as demand for high density areas goes down.

[Soundy]

he does make a point with this statement.

i bet they don't have threads like these in the Ferrari and Lamborghini forms.

LOL!!!
Bet they do! After all, how can you afford the gas for your supercar, when it costs so much to keep a garage over its head?

[Soundy]

Lets all produce poisonous mike powder for our babies to use, lets all produce fake eggs, cancer causing cooking oil, let's sell rotten meat as new and the list goes on. Or better yet let's hire thousand of workers and make them work for next to nothing and if they go on strike I just have to police beat them till they listen coz I have the gov paid off.

Or what about the corruption going on where gov officials take brides from developers and manufacturers to turn a blind eye. If anyone go against it let's just lock them them or beat them to death. How about let's see apartments that's lacking the building code so that it will fall any sec.

But hey who cares about others as long as I am making the money I can totally discard human life and who cares about polluting my own country coz I got the $$$ now when my own country is all polluted and the air quality is so bad people have to wear a gas mask out, I will just move to Canada and start the cycle again.:rukidding:
CharlesInCharge, is that you?? :pokerface:

[underscore]

I threw out that number earlier in the thread too, but it all depends on what the couples's expenses are outside of the mortgage.

If the couple is early in their child rearing years, 1/3 or 1/2 of one spouse's salary could easily be eaten up by childcare costs. With the tax system now, it almost makes sense if one spouse stays at home because of income-splitting.

If the couple doesn't have some kind of RRSP plan or pension plan, they should aim to save 10-15% of their net income. They also need to save for their kids' RESPs which would be 5 grand a year (if they want to get the maximum grant). Insurance is also another thing they need to think about - residence, life, and critical illness. Insurance could easily be several hundred dollars a month if they have pre-existing medical conditions, or a family history. Finally, vehicle costs will likely be several hundred dollars a month, even if they lease something mundane, like a Toyota Rav 4 or Kia Sorrento. Or, I guess they could squeeze in two convertible car seats into a 1990s Honda Accord.

Maybe, just maybe, people can't have everything. If you have high insurance or childcare costs don't take out a lease on a brand new vehicle, don't max out their RESP's (what the hell kind of post-secondary are you planning for them here at $5k/year?) don't have one parent completely quit working just to raise the kids. Of course it'll be hard to make your mortgage when you reduce your income and max out all possible expenses.

Yes it's a bummer when you can't have everything you want but that's part of life, people better get used to that.

[4444]

Unbiased eh? You probably just 'forgot' to check off 'adjusted for inflation' then...

Without inflation = $2.9m
With inflation = $373,395

WTF, the house in the article i was comparing to is the EXACT same thing, $15K 1960's money to $1M today's money.

i was comparing apples to apples

[4444]

You skipped the main point of my post, which is that next to nobody buys a house cash. So that $15.5k from 1961 would have to be borrowed, and what you would be paying to borrow that money would outweigh what you are gaining from investing that money. On top of that, a mortgage isn't just an investment, everyone needs to live somewhere.

right, and i said it was a vast over simplification, but the returns from S&P500 far outweigh the real estate. less so when you take those factors into consideration.

also consider that in 1961 you'd have had to have saved a larger % down payment (no >100% mortgages then), so that could have been invested, and the rest would have been invested over time.

this, of course is on the assumption that rent was < than ownership cost then, which may or may not have been true.

the thing is, people are stupid, they don't understand simple time value of money or economics - they will read the line about $15K house going to $1M and think its the best thing ever. i'm just showing a glaringly easy alternative.

it's not a perfect comparison as there are those considerations, but it's just there to show the other side of a multi faceted consideration.

but to your point, you mentioned borrowing rates, which are usually closely tied with inflation, so let's say borrowing rate = inflation, given S&P500 has historically gained real return of 6%, you're still way better off (over the long run), you have real spending power of +6% each and every year (less the spread on the debt, which will be <6%)

[CharlesInCharge]

Before committing ones working life to purchasing real-estate, its best to first invest in a crystal ball so you'd know when the next crash is going to happen.

Ive yet to read a reason as to why real estate prices doubled in a span of 5-7 years a decade ago... the system will always keep people in a hamsters wheel... foreign investors or not.

[Harvey Specter]

Article talking about been house poor in Canada which a lot of Vancouverites can relate to;

They look like the family that has it all. Louise Edgerton, her partner, John Camus, and her 10-year-old daughter, Fianna, joke around while making brownies. They move around with ease in the gleaming white kitchen of the new dream home they designed themselves.

But for Edgerton, one financial setback could change everything. "I am discouraged, because I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel. It's a little bit of a house of cards that could fall down at any time," she says.

The family is house poor, or as Edgerton puts it, "house rich and cash poor." They live in Lachute, Que., about an hour outside of Montreal, far from the housing hot zones of Toronto and Vancouver.

Edgerton estimates she and Camus spend 43 per cent of their combined income paying down their $418,000 mortgage and covering other fixed housing expenses. Once they pay the rest of the bills and buy groceries, "there is nothing left," she explains. She describes their existence as living "hand to mouth."

'Nobody talks about it'

Edgerton says she knows they're not alone. "I don't feel we are the only couple who are in debt and wondering how the hell we will get out of this."

"It's the dirty little secret," she concludes. "Nobody talks about it."

With skyrocketing house prices in some regions and the lure of ultra-low interest rates, more Canadians are living closer to the edge. But, naturally, many don't want to talk about their own house of cards.

"There definitely is a lot more going on than we see," says Laurie Campbell, CEO of Credit Canada Debt Solutions.

"Add the cost of running a vehicle to the cost of having a mortgage, the cost of raising a family [and] a lot of people are struggling. It could be your next door neighbour, it could be somebody at work, it could be one of your family members and you know nothing about it."

According to Statistics Canada, Canadians' debt-to-income ratio in the fourth quarter of 2014 was at an all-time high of 163 per cent. That means for every dollar of disposable income in a typical year, Canadians carry $1.63 of debt.

Living on the edge

Campbell says that many, like Edgerton and Camus, are surviving now, but the big question is what happens if there's an unplanned setback — from a job loss to a rise in interest rates.

"It worries me immensely that so many of us have allowed ourselves to live on the edge like this and not realize what happens should something out of daily life take a different turn," she says.

Unexpected turns are exactly what drove Edgerton and Camus this close to the edge.

Last year, just a week after they signed the deal to start building their house, Camus lost his sales job at a construction company. Then, the day before they moved in, their contractor handed them a surprise $27,000 bill for extra costs. The couple were forced to tap into their line of credit to pay for it.

So far, they've managed. Edgerton still runs her own website design company. Camus recently found a new, largely commission-based sales job at a car dealership. "I feel we can handle what we are dealing with right now," he says.

The tipping point

The two also say they live frugally, cutting out the extras and halting contributions to their retirement fund and an RESP for Fianna. But Edgerton's main concern is what happens if there's another financial emergency. "Should any bad luck happen, we are going to be in trouble," she believes.

If enough people living house poor reach their own tipping point, it could affect the value of the housing market, says Campbell.

"If the housing market goes down and those individuals have to sell, we're going to see a lot of houses on the market, which will further reduce the house market in general," says the debt counsellor.

Some housing experts say there's no need to panic. Yesterday, the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation reported that the country's housing markets, overall, will remain stable, though they may slow down over the next two years.

Hanging on to the Canadian dream

Camus is also sanguine about his own situation. He believes he and Edgerton won't get to the point where they have to sell their home.

With his new job, he expects his financial situation will improve. "I don't share the same stress levels [as Louise], because I do think our situation will get better."

He adds, "Owning a home is a question of pride for me."

Canada has among the highest home ownership rates in the world; owning a home is one of the ultimate Canadian dreams. And it's perhaps why so many people choose to live house poor rather than sell their home. And it's probably why some people, no matter what their circumstances, won't give up their home without a fight.

"I want to say, no matter what happens, we'll just deal. That's what we've always done. But, you know, how long can we keep that up?" asks Edgerton.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/real-estate-woes-secret-lives-090000545.html

[4444]

Before committing ones working life to purchasing real-estate, its best to first invest in a crystal ball so you'd know when the next crash is going to happen.

Ive yet to read a reason as to why real estate prices doubled in a span of 5-7 years a decade ago... the system will always keep people in a hamsters wheel... foreign investors or not.

did you miss the global financial crisis of 2008 and the resulting quantitative easing (pouring of cheap and easy money into the system).

where do you think that money went - into building up companies, like it was intended? no, of course not, it went partially to that and the rest has gone to hard and financial assets, real estate, art, equities, bonds - safer havens

CiC - i thought you were just crazy, turns out you're also an idiot.

[CharlesInCharge]

Vancouver housing prices doubled before 2008.

You're like the biggest mainstream regurgitator that replies to my posts... and you've always been wrong or backwards because your so gullible in what the news and probably your peon friends tell you.

Now run to your news sites and tell me why prices doubled from the year 2000+

[Mr.HappySilp]

lol you need to get your head out of the western propaganda machine

the shit you said shows you know very little of China let alone its economy. Yes, China have its problems with labor issues but literally so did every growing nation in the world. Its not like these Chinese companies purposely produce bad products to get people sick, but to stay competitive they had to cut down on certain cost.

Is it right? No. But they don't have a choice. China has to stay cheap in order to keep growing. China almost didn't even have a middle class 20 years ago so there will be sacrifices during people's upwards mobility. Same thing happen in Europe and the same thing happened in North America.

You can't think outside the box because you were taught to see China/communism as the evil nation that wants to take down western society and this translate on to how you view foreign Chinese investors.

Not every Chinese nationalist coming here stepped on its own people to get here. In fact, it is more than likely its WESTERN companies hiring Chinese workers on a razor thin margin to produce their products that is forcing them to keep wages and quality of life down.

Learn a thing or two first before you start judging with prejudice glasses. Western companies are likely just as evil as you see the Chinese companies, they just know how to hide it better.

Learn a thing or two? Sorry buddy but I have had first hand experience how people do business in China. In their world no know cares how you get rich as long as you get rich no one gives a shit how you got there. There are no rules in running business in China is who you know that counts.

[4444]

Vancouver housing prices doubled before 2008.

You're like the biggest mainstream regurgitator that replies to my posts... and you've always been wrong or backwards because your so gullible in what the news and probably your peon friends tell you.

Now run to your news sites and tell me why prices doubled from the year 2000+

i will remind you of the dotcom bubble which burst in 2001.

do you know what happened after this event? money started becoming VERY easy and much cheaper to get in the US. This had an effect on the cost of borrowing in Canada, whilst not quite as easy as the US (the difference can be seen, partially, by the US crash in 2008 vs. no material crash in Canada, though that is in part due to the emergency rates brought in in Canada), Canadian real estate started going up.

The cost of debt and the prices of properties are inversely related.

if i was a mainstream regurgitator, as you put it, i'd be saying it's because Vancouver is special, it's different here, CHINESE MONEY!!!!

instead, i'm intelligent and well read, hence why i state the factual economic basis for the change in prices. Now, admittedly, some of the China money, it's special here, etc. will have a small, limited, local, certain portion of the market effect, but by and large it is fundamentals that drive pricing long term, not a conspiracy theory, not aliens, not anything else.

ironically, you tell me to run to news sources - i don't need to quote news sources, what i state is known fact. yet, you always provide links to cracker jack sites as back up to your crazy assertions.

having said all this - you are partially correct, the system is keeping the masses down, the rich have disproportionately gained from the financial crisis, this is beyond debate. my solution - become one of the 1% (or 5% will do, to be honest) by virtue of hard work, smart investing, and intelligent spending, not by screwing others over. or you could juts complain about it and say it's some crazy Illuminati thing.

and, it's "you're gullible", i don't have a gullible.

[CharlesInCharge]

So because lots of citizens got scammed in the United States... losing mucho money! you say...
money started becoming VERY easy and much cheaper to get in the US. This had an effect on the cost of borrowing in Canada,
this spurred the Canadian banksters to also start lend out so much money that in a span of 5-7 years it caused an unstable doubling in the cost of housing?

but, but, its not an Illuminati thing... and its not like they collapsed wtc7 containing the Enron and WorldCom investigation files... no (that was due to Bin Ladin's fluke luck taking down a building not struck by a plane but got pulverized at free-fall speed due to debris raining down from the other collapsed freefall buildings)

Canada is not under the control of international shadow banking Illuminati's because that would be a crazy assertion.
So why did the Canadian bankers just start lending out money like crazy? For what reason?

You are so well read and intelligent like you claim, lettuce all patiently await for you to wake up in the morning and share your great wisdom.
:megusta:

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

this is becoming the next real estate thread with a billion pages of poor people whining, and rich people justifying.

[4444]

So because lots of citizens got scammed in the United States... losing mucho money! you say...

this spurred the Canadian banksters to also start lend out so much money that in a span of 5-7 years it caused an unstable doubling in the cost of housing?

but, but, its not an Illuminati thing... and its not like they collapsed wtc7 containing the Enron and WorldCom investigation files... no (that was due to Bin Ladin's fluke luck taking down a building not struck by a plane but got pulverized at free-fall speed due to debris raining down from the other collapsed freefall buildings)

Canada is not under the control of international shadow banking Illuminati's because that would be a crazy assertion.
So why did the Canadian bankers just start lending out money like crazy? For what reason?

You are so well read and intelligent like you claim, lettuce all patiently await for you to wake up in the morning and share your great wisdom.
:megusta:

canadian central bank rates tend to follow those of the US, this is done for two reasons, 1) usually there will not be a desire or need to manipulate relative rates for purposes of changing the FX rate, and 2) the US is the largest trader with Canada - Canada's economy, to some (large) degree, echoes that of the US

the above will have an effect on variable mortgages, based on the BoC rate.

fixed 5 year mortgages are priced based on bond yields - these tend to reflect growth expectations in the market, with other factors also considered. When bond yields move in the US, they tend to move in Canada, this is because Canada and US have a constant relative risk profiles, so if bond yields rise in the US, they will tend to rise lockstep in Canada, as otherwise an investor would just take their investment money to the US and buy US bonds rather than Canadian, and vice versa

the above is simplified, CiC, on account of your small brain, but on account of a very stable relationship between the US and Canada in relative bond yields, overnight rates, economies, etc. (in the long run), take it as gospel that whatever the US will have a significant effect on what happens in Canada. Perhaps not 1:1, perhaps the FX rate will fluctuate, perhaps there is a slight, temporary, whatever, shift in relative risk, performance, etc. (commodity cycle since 2008, for one) - but long term, know this will survive as long as Canada is so reliant on the US economy, something that may never change due to the geographical, social, and political alignment of the two nations.

CiC - you mad, don't be, the Illuminati will save you (whatever that means)

[CharlesInCharge]

So when Canadian labourers are trying to save up for a house, specially those that dont want a life mortgage and to pay $100,000+ interest to the banks... they have to prey to the bond yield gods in the United States (the same country that schemed on a governmental level, defrauding over a trillion of American citizens monies in the housing crisis) for those gods not double the housing rates in Canada... call me stupid but sounds like there's a shadow ruling elite pulling the strings for booms and depressions.

I have video of George Bush promoting Enron before the burst, and Im sure most have seen him at the 911 site condemning terrorist when he was in fact one of them...
http://www.revscene.net/forums/696707-flase-flag-master-netanyahu-imagine-80-percent-your-citizens-bomb-shelters.html

So in conclusion you want me to believe x + y + variable - shift in relative risk x performance = everythings going to be alright?
I got your variable bond yields BoC rate right here.
*grabs crouch.

[4444]

So when Canadian labourers are trying to save up for a house, specially those that dont want a life mortgage and to pay $100,000+ interest to the banks... they have to prey to the bond yield gods in the United States (the same country that schemed on a governmental level, defrauding over a trillion of American citizens monies in the housing crisis) for those gods not double the housing rates in Canada... call me stupid but sounds like there's a shadow ruling elite pulling the strings for booms and depressions.

I have video of George Bush promoting Enron before the burst, and Im sure most have seen him at the 911 site condemning terrorist when he was in fact one of them...
http://www.revscene.net/forums/696707-flase-flag-master-netanyahu-imagine-80-percent-your-citizens-bomb-shelters.html

So in conclusion you want me to believe x + y + variable - shift in relative risk x performance = everythings going to be alright?
I got your variable bond yields BoC rate right here.
*grabs crouch.

what?! FailFish

i explained the economic support for the link between US and Canadian borrowing rates, the timeline from 2000 to today re: house prices being driven (in my opinion) by cheap debt - and somehow this is a conspiracy theory?

there's no conspiracy, those in power will do what is best for them. you can only hope that trickles down to you, the average citizen - if not, you voice your displeasure by voting them out.

you think the US has some conspiracy against canadian workers? no, it's just that the US has the biggest economy which happens to be the main driver of the Cdn economy. if somehow the Canadian cost of debt was related to the egyptian cost of debt, i'd be with you on this one, but for now, you're on your own little cracker island.

[CharlesInCharge]

Im investing my future in Iran, a free country unlike Canada... but who knows maybe you or your children will be in the hot middle eastern trenches one day trying to get a piece of Iran for your ZioAmerican over lords. Thus the role of a cog that will wake up one day, be drafted into a world war, and think how did this happen.

[4444]

FailFish

this explains it all.

Im investing my future in Iran, a free country unlike Canada... but who knows maybe you or your children will be in the hot middle eastern trenches one day trying to get a piece of Iran for your ZioAmerican over lords. Thus the role of a cog that will wake up one day, be drafted into a world war, and think how did this happen.

[Hondaracer]

TLDR; Canada isn't safe, don't trust the government, bubble will burst, but invest in Iran

[Soundy]

Im not Tic Tac... but I would like my fail button back. :smug:

http://www.freeallimages.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/grumpy-cat-no-1.jpg?hc_location=ufi

[underscore]

Article talking about been house poor in Canada which a lot of Vancouverites can relate to;

If their mortgage takes 43% (considered the top end of acceptable), how the hell are groceries and housing bills taking up the rest? It sounds like these people are spending money on other things and then wondering why they're broke.

right, and i said it was a vast over simplification, but the returns from S&P500 far outweigh the real estate. less so when you take those factors into consideration.

<snip>

but to your point, you mentioned borrowing rates, which are usually closely tied with inflation, so let's say borrowing rate = inflation, given S&P500 has historically gained real return of 6%, you're still way better off (over the long run), you have real spending power of +6% each and every year (less the spread on the debt, which will be <6%)

The returns do outweigh real estate assuming the real estate was being purchased strictly as an investment with cash and you let it sit empty for some reason. If you start to factor in borrowing any of that money or renting out/living in the property during ownership it becomes vastly more complicated but I somewhat doubt sticking the value of a house into an investment for 54 years still comes out on top.

[godwin]

Well besides the fact that it is a legal grey area to invest in Iran right now.. Iran is starved for cash. You can get some crazy returns (with some crazy risks).

However I know a few hedge funds (closest one I know is in the Bay area) already getting their prospectus ready whenever the embargo is lifted in the next few months.

Again little guys will get trampled.

TLDR; Canada isn't safe, don't trust the government, bubble will burst, but invest in Iran

[godwin]

Actually most med grads I know usually buy their first place a few years out of university.. and in Vancouver. A lot I know buy around the Womens and Childrens (Fraser, Oak, King Ed area).. Doctors are the sector bankers roll out the red carpet for. 1/2 mill credit line during med school days? done... Free everything service.. done.. they want you to get you in debt.

Lawyers same thing, but since it is not as controlled and have shortages they are not as conveted, but they like prefer closer to downtown for obvious reasons.

Because of income splitting a lot of people "who use their brains", one spouse will stay at home and they can afford to and the tax benefits work that way. Once your combined income is about 150k you should listen to a good financial and more importantly tax advisor. You shouldn't use brute force at this stage because the payoff is a lot less.

As long as you are on the straight and narrow in those professions.. ie no affairs / divorces / drugs.. the banks will back you even if you have crazy debts because you are not going anywhere.

The problem is that there ARE people who "use their brain", i.e., new doctors, lawyers, who are making six figure incomes who can't afford to live here.

[Tapioca]

Maybe, just maybe, people can't have everything. If you have high insurance or childcare costs don't take out a lease on a brand new vehicle, don't max out their RESP's (what the hell kind of post-secondary are you planning for them here at $5k/year?) don't have one parent completely quit working just to raise the kids. Of course it'll be hard to make your mortgage when you reduce your income and max out all possible expenses.

Yes it's a bummer when you can't have everything you want but that's part of life, people better get used to that.

The government gives you $500 if you contribute $2500 to an RESP per child so it makes sense to max out your contributions because there aren't many programs that allow you to get free money. $5000 was based on the average of two kids per family. $2500 X 18 years is $45,000 which may not necessarily be a lot of money considering the cost of any post-secondary program today, let alone in 19 years. I'm sure a lot of people here have had crippling student loan debt and probably wished that their parents could have given them a head start (we're talking about education - not cars, or house down payments).

Even if you buy a used minivan or wagon (like a mid-200s Suburu) to shuttle your kids to doctor's appointments, swimming lessons, etc., you're still paying 1000-2000 per year to keep that car on the road in maintenance and unexpected repairs (like an automatic transmission rebuild, or head gasket). Of course, you could wrench yourself, but then you would need a second car (as a runner to get dealer-only parts if you break something along the way) and ample space, tools, and most importantly, time.

I guess my point is that it's not hard to see where the money goes, even when families make prudent decisions.

[godwin]

Not to mention, a lot of financial institutions match your contribution if you open an account with them (at least for the first few years).. since they know it is a gov source it is a stable source, they want your business.

But it is fair on the new car lease and living within your means.

The government gives you $500 if you contribute $2500 to an RESP per child so it makes sense to max out your contributions because there aren't many programs that allow you to get free money.