[tiger_handheld]

I'm usually not the one to post about social issues because we all have our views, but this really caught my attention and blasted my mind.

Ireland same-sex marriage referendum: 'Yes' wins (http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ireland-same-sex-marriage-referendum-yes-wins-1.3084976)

You are probably aware that last week on may 23, Ireland legalized same sex marriage and the world rejoiced in the name of equality. A win for people who are for and defeat for those against.



Now, what you may or may not know is the fact that just a few hours north and a day later (may 24), the Scotts banned creationism from their science classes. Again, the world rejoice but this time for discrimination. A win for people who are against creationism and a defeat for those for.

Scottish Government: creationism banned from science class (http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/scottish-government-creationism-banned-from-science-class.126976076)


The mind blasting point: does any one else see the irony that has happened in the name of 'equality'?

[Qmx323]

For every winner, there's gonna be losers.

Always give and take.

[multicartual]

Shit be cray, all you can do is laugh and slam it in 2nd gear

[SkinnyPupp]

I'm usually not the one to post about social issues because we all have our views, but this really caught my attention and blasted my mind.

Ireland same-sex marriage referendum: 'Yes' wins (http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ireland-same-sex-marriage-referendum-yes-wins-1.3084976)

You are probably aware that last week on may 23, Ireland legalized same sex marriage and the world rejoiced in the name of equality. A win for people who are for and defeat for those against.



Now, what you may or may not know is the fact that just a few hours north and a day later (may 24), the Scotts banned creationism from their science classes. Again, the world rejoice but this time for discrimination. A win for people who are against creationism and a defeat for those for.

Scottish Government: creationism banned from science class (http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/scottish-government-creationism-banned-from-science-class.126976076)


The mind blasting point: does any one else see the irony that has happened in the name of 'equality'?
Banning creationism is not discrimination... WTF? It's the opposite. Why would you teach a religion that specifically says all other religions are bullshit? Why would you teach something that is the opposite of science in a science class?

Creationism has no place in school. Go to church for that.

[GabAlmighty]

People be bitchin and complainin about everything and i'm over here like "I just wanna do skids all day errday".

[Manic!]

science class should be based on scientific fact. Any scientific facts to back up creationism?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/11/23/article-2512229-19973CA700000578-892_306x423.jpg

[multicartual]

Creationism has no place in school. Go to church for that.

Why?

A good teacher should be able to discuss the idea that this world is just a battleground for greater spiritual forces. Why not? What's so scary about the various philosophical theories of our existence? Creationism and many other philosophies should be discussed. Fuck I bet I would actually enjoy learning more about other culture's spiritual views.

Solipsism, string theory, creationism, the big bang theory, there are so many interesting and mind-expanding ideas of how we, you and I, came into being.

My understanding is, we are supposedly evolved apes on a ball of dirt and water hurling through space at 50,000 KPH around a massive nuclear fireball in a universe full of other nuclear fireballs. These fireballs are born through gravity condensing material in space into a star which eventually explodes into the material needed to create planets. Black holes are these places that bend what we know as space and time due to their gravity, the event horizon where nothing can escape from. Where does the material that falls into this place go? Is it destroyed? What is destruction really? Energy can only be converted... anyways. We evolved from this shit to the point where I can be a high school dropout making money through a copper wire in the wall that enables me to skirt social conventions and be this free spirit who has free time to observe the shit show around me. Wow, life is fucking insane!!! Holy shit!!! The more I look around the more I think this universe is a spiritual learning ground. For some it is paradise, for others it is hell. I feel like I am in heaven sometimes but I feel guilty for the hell I see right outside of my fucking window. Should I even feel guilty? Maybe if I had a greater understanding of the world I wouldn't feel guilty.

Meanwhile, Justin Bieber exists to have 100 million in the bank and bang supermodels while the dirt poor in India die from a heatwave because they can't stay cool enough. What the fuck?

When you open your mind up to reality, shit gets cray so fast. Understanding various philosophies, IMO, will help prevent mental illness.

Why are very religious countries so fucked up and becoming more fucked up? They have a singular, very rigid understanding of the world that clashes with growing intrusion from outside cultures with different realities.

Why is mental illness on the rise in the west? We have more experiences and knowledge of our world but less understanding of it.

Just the theories of a mullet-douche from Gastown

Holy shit this was such a Ulic post :fuckyea:

[EmperorIS]

Why?

A good teacher should be able to discuss the idea that this world is just a battleground for greater spiritual forces. Why not? What's so scary about the various philosophical theories of our existence? Creationism and many other philosophies should be discussed. Fuck I bet I would actually enjoy learning more about other culture's spiritual views.

Solipsism, string theory, creationism, the big bang theory, there are so many interesting and mind-expanding ideas of how we, you and I, came into being.

My understanding is, we are supposedly evolved apes on a ball of dirt and water hurling through space at 50,000 KPH around a massive nuclear fireball in a universe full of other nuclear fireballs. These fireballs are born through gravity condensing material in space into a star which eventually explodes into the material needed to create planets. Black holes are these places that bend what we know as space and time due to their gravity, the event horizon where nothing can escape from. Where does the material that falls into this place go? Is it destroyed? What is destruction really? Energy can only be converted... anyways. We evolved from this shit to the point where I can be a high school dropout making money through a copper wire in the wall that enables me to skirt social conventions and be this free spirit who has free time to observe the shit show around me. Wow, life is fucking insane!!! Holy shit!!! The more I look around the more I think this universe is a spiritual learning ground. For some it is paradise, for others it is hell. I feel like I am in heaven sometimes but I feel guilty for the hell I see right outside of my fucking window. Should I even feel guilty? Maybe if I had a greater understanding of the world I wouldn't feel guilty.

Meanwhile, Justin Bieber exists to have 100 million in the bank and bang supermodels while the dirt poor in India die from a heatwave because they can't stay cool enough. What the fuck?

When you open your mind up to reality, shit gets cray so fast. Understanding various philosophies, IMO, will help prevent mental illness.

Why are very religious countries so fucked up and becoming more fucked up? They have a singular, very rigid understanding of the world that clashes with growing intrusion from outside cultures with different realities.

Why is mental illness on the rise in the west? We have more experiences and knowledge of our world but less understanding of it.

Just the theories of a mullet-douche from Gastown

Holy shit this was such a Ulic post :fuckyea:

He means that it shouldn't be taught in a Science class as a legitimate theory, but it can have its place in Social Studies.

[SkinnyPupp]

There are plenty of avenues to teach about and discuss creationism/christianity, along with every other religion. Science class is just about the worst place to do so.

[multicartual]

I often think of string theory and the nuclear theory when eating nachos. The idea that every bite of crunchy corn chip with salsa, cheese, guac, and various veggies are mostly just energy shells with tiny nucleus of actual "matter" compared to the electrons that orbit it... what the fuck? All of this somehow works to create this amazing flavour that goes with beer? The taste buds on my tongue send a signal to my brain based on the molecules of the nachos and other substances, this signal interprets it and produces a reaction inside my brain that releases other chemicals that cause another feeling to be perceived by my consciousness. Crazy as fuck right? Wow. Then it goes deeper when you think that at the moment my tongue is tasting food my body is also background processing so many other tasks and information through my eyes, ears, touch... holy fuck so much is going on all the time and yet the only thing I'm aware of right at this moment is typing on Revscene and needing to fart.

So fucked up, the universe is like, here to experience itself. We are all created to observe ourselves.

I should go to college

[multicartual]

There are plenty of avenues to teach about and discuss creationism/christianity, along with every other religion. Science class is just about the worst place to do so.


I disagree. I think it is the best place. :smug:

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

science class should be based on scientific fact. Any scientific facts to back up creationism?


the irony in your post is ... ...

any SCIENTIFIC facts to back up creationism?

u mean any CREATIONISM FACTS to back up creationism? LOL


don't get me wrong... i am 100% for the pursuit of science...

but the averange numbskull that used to follow religion... now follows science the SAME WAY.

the delusion of science.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKHUaNAxsTg

watch it. he has a big point.

"i don't BELIEVE in god, i BELIEVE in science"

that's FUCKED.

like the dude says... it's a belief system that has spread just like religion.

"The biggest scientific delusion of all is that science already knows the answers. The details still need working out, but the fundamental questions are settled, in principle."

if you believe and fall into any dogmatic type thinking, even with science, you're just another religious zealot.

creationism... the definition can still be true. but just not the details the creationists here have described.

you go around talking to "science" believers and you can see how dogmatic and idiotic they are. they talk and discuss things... the attitude they give off is dogmatic and religious. as if they KNOW the fundamental essence of existence described by the axioms and dogmatic rules of science... as if those are 100% correct and you just have to accept it.

no man... no.

i'm willing to bet, that a high % of people on this forum, who are non religious, and "follow/believe" in science, are no better than creationists. they are just regurgitating dogmatic axioms. basically they converted to a new religion.

i don't blame them though. i think it's just how the basic human mind works. people just need a set of rules to follow. they're not programmed to be leaders or people that make a real difference. they're just the average worker ant... and average worker ants work best when dictated a set of rules which they can work freely within.

it's not that people try to be idiots. it's that people ARE idiots. LOL.

you need the einsteins and other leaders to discover and dictate NEW set of rules which everyone else plays by. but the leaders and genius's don't have to play by those rules, because they see past that, they are the rule makers. they discover new things. everyone else just follows the past.

[StylinRed]

Science should be taught in science class, if you want to bring religion into science then speak about the science of religion, or scientific thought found in religion (there is some)

And religion should be taught in religious studies class, where the major religions, at the very least, should all be taught


As for gay marriage or rights that is in no way an attack on religion, they're not forcing those religions to believe in it, they're simply allowing those who are gay equal rights...

I don't see what all the hubbub is about its 2015!! There have even been Muslim countries that have recognized gay rights for half a century+ yet a modern western nation allowing it is causing all sorts of controversy :fulloffuck: is it backwards day?

[punkwax]

Banning creationism is not discrimination... WTF? It's the opposite. Why would you teach a religion that specifically says all other religions are bullshit? Why would you teach something that is the opposite of science in a science class?

Creationism has no place in school. Go to church for that.

QFT.

I won't profess to be an expert on the subject, but from my experience, there is no science based evidence supporting creationism contrary to evolution.

Also, the subjects you're comparing are apples to eggs IMO. Same sex marriage is a sign of progress and human adaptation/understanding whereas creationism is something the Church has been pushing on people for centuries with no real new theories to support it. If anything, banning the subject in schools is also a sign of progress for reasons SP posted above. Unless I've missed something.. which very well may have happened because:

I'll leave my opinion out on the latter subject and leave it at that :)

[CRS]

http://wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/blogs/slacktivist/files/2014/02/Nutshell.jpg

[Manic!]

http://wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/blogs/slacktivist/files/2014/02/Nutshell.jpg

Alberta creationist discovers rare fish fossils in basement dig - Calgary - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-creationist-discovers-rare-fish-fossils-in-basement-dig-1.3091266)

[Soundy]

http://wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/blogs/slacktivist/files/2014/02/Nutshell.jpg

Creationism != "young-earth creationism".

[BrownBear]

parents would be able to withdraw there kids when they teach it.

[Mikoyan]

The mind blasting point: does any one else see the irony that has happened in the name of 'equality'?

That's if you assume creationism is the equal of science.

Religious beliefs have no place in a science classroom. As others have stated, they already have a class: Social Studies.

[SkinnyPupp]

Creationism != "young-earth creationism".
The point remains, so it doesn't matter.

[Manic!]

parents would be able to withdraw there kids when they teach it.

And when it's on a test. Then what? You going to make a custom test for every student.

[murd0c]

They got two things right in less then a week, talk about a smart move on all levels. If people don't like it send the kids to private school because creationism does not belong in the public school system at all.

[CharlesInCharge]

.

[parm104]

How are we comparing same-sex marriage rights to creationism?

One is about human civil rights and the other is about governments need for ensuring they do not establish religion...Creationism, although a theory, is heavily dependant on biblical ideas. For a public school to be teaching creationism would be the same as a government supporting/establishing a religion.

At the end of the day, the government has taken the SAME stance for both issues...They have decided not to interfere with public/private religious affairs. Denying same sex marriage and allow creationism to be taught in public schools would be establishing a religion.

[BrownBear]

Give the students an A. There's no evidence to back this up. Science is about facts not what a book written hundreds of thousands years ago. Christians pull there kids from sex-ed and other classes they don't like because of their belief, o should be able to do the same

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

lol we know nothing... these referendums are no more accurate to cosmic virtues than monkeys throwing shit at a dart board.

the only thing they represent is which side has more shit to throw. lol.

[Sid Vicious]

I'm usually not the one to post about social issues because we all have our views, but this really caught my attention and blasted my mind.

Ireland same-sex marriage referendum: 'Yes' wins (http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ireland-same-sex-marriage-referendum-yes-wins-1.3084976)

You are probably aware that last week on may 23, Ireland legalized same sex marriage and the world rejoiced in the name of equality. A win for people who are for and defeat for those against.



Now, what you may or may not know is the fact that just a few hours north and a day later (may 24), the Scotts banned creationism from their science classes. Again, the world rejoice but this time for discrimination. A win for people who are against creationism and a defeat for those for.

Scottish Government: creationism banned from science class (http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/scottish-government-creationism-banned-from-science-class.126976076)


The mind blasting point: does any one else see the irony that has happened in the name of 'equality'?

what does discrimination have to do with banning creationism?

do you teach 2+2 = 5 in mathematics?

creationism is just flat out wrong (at least in the biblical ordained sense). there's no sense in teaching kids incorrect things.

[underscore]

Now, what you may or may not know is the fact that just a few hours north and a day later (may 24), the Scotts banned creationism from their science classes. Again, the world rejoice but this time for discrimination. A win for people who are against creationism and a defeat for those for.

Scottish Government: creationism banned from science class (http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/scottish-government-creationism-banned-from-science-class.126976076)


The mind blasting point: does any one else see the irony that has happened in the name of 'equality'?

Think of it this way: the Scots banned an outdated textbook and replaced it with a newer, more up to date one.

[6o4__boi]

ITT: A smidgen of progress for humanity = WTF

[Ronin]

I don't see how these things are related.

Creationism isn't science and shouldn't be taught in science class.

Gay people are people and should have the same rights, such as the right to get married, as straight people.

It's that simple.

People that believe in creation are free to believe in it all the want regardless of what's taught in science class. There would only be "irony" if creationism was banned even outside science class. I'd be completely against kids being taught religion in school. I'm fine with them being taught ABOUT religion. Everyone should be educated about religion since you gain a better understanding of how society and the world works.

"God created the world." is not okay in class. "Christians think God created the world...therefore..." is fine in social studies...not science.

[Sid Vicious]

the irony in your post is ... ...

any SCIENTIFIC facts to back up creationism?

u mean any CREATIONISM FACTS to back up creationism? LOL


don't get me wrong... i am 100% for the pursuit of science...

but the averange numbskull that used to follow religion... now follows science the SAME WAY.

the delusion of science.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKHUaNAxsTg

watch it. he has a big point.

"i don't BELIEVE in god, i BELIEVE in science"

that's FUCKED.

like the dude says... it's a belief system that has spread just like religion.

"The biggest scientific delusion of all is that science already knows the answers. The details still need working out, but the fundamental questions are settled, in principle."

if you believe and fall into any dogmatic type thinking, even with science, you're just another religious zealot.

creationism... the definition can still be true. but just not the details the creationists here have described.

you go around talking to "science" believers and you can see how dogmatic and idiotic they are. they talk and discuss things... the attitude they give off is dogmatic and religious. as if they KNOW the fundamental essence of existence described by the axioms and dogmatic rules of science... as if those are 100% correct and you just have to accept it.

no man... no.

i'm willing to bet, that a high % of people on this forum, who are non religious, and "follow/believe" in science, are no better than creationists. they are just regurgitating dogmatic axioms. basically they converted to a new religion.

i don't blame them though. i think it's just how the basic human mind works. people just need a set of rules to follow. they're not programmed to be leaders or people that make a real difference. they're just the average worker ant... and average worker ants work best when dictated a set of rules which they can work freely within.

it's not that people try to be idiots. it's that people ARE idiots. LOL.

you need the einsteins and other leaders to discover and dictate NEW set of rules which everyone else plays by. but the leaders and genius's don't have to play by those rules, because they see past that, they are the rule makers. they discover new things. everyone else just follows the past.

science is a tool and process. nothing more or less.

[mr_chin]

You know what schools should really focus on? Stuff that we can use in the future, like making money, building better relationships, people skills, trades, math, computer/technology, survival skills, street smart, the list goes on. Not religion, not history, not philosophies, kids should go learn those shit on their own time.

[tiger_handheld]

Always a good discussion here on RS!

The way I saw these two things beings related was...

Ireland 'accepted' another view of the word 'marriage' - for some marriage is still binary, if you will - man and women - nothing else. For others it's not binary.

Scottland on the other hand, took a 'theory' called creationism and banned it outright from the science class (all we know it could be from public education, but it's unclear at this time - but lets presume it is as that would make the most sense).

The definition of 'how humans came into existence' is now binary (evolution only) there is no room for debate (it doesn't matter how far fetch the theory of creationism is - it no longer matters)

The two are related because, in one instance you are expanding the meaning by telling the world 'hey there is more than your traditional definition of marriage' while on the other 'hey there is only one definition of how we came into existence'.

To me this is the bigger picture.

Life is about choices.
It doesn't matter how far fetched those choices seem to be or claim to be.
Each individual should be given the opportunity to chose their own views and for most of us we start to learn these 'views' at school (useful or not).

[Sid Vicious]

you clearly do not understand what a theory is, in the scientific context
http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/images/scientific_theory.gif

notice how creationism has absolutely nothing that could fit in the right

[Manic!]

Scottland on the other hand, took a 'theory' called creationism and banned it outright from the science class (all we know it could be from public education, but it's unclear at this time - but lets presume it is as that would make the most sense).

The definition of 'how humans came into existence' is now binary (evolution only) there is no room for debate (it doesn't matter how far fetch the theory of creationism is - it no longer matters)





theory
[thee-uh-ree, theer-ee]

Examples
Word Origin

noun, plural theories.
1.
a coherent group of tested general propositions, commonly regarded as correct, that can be used as principles of explanation and prediction for a class of phenomena:
Einstein's theory of relativity.
Synonyms: principle, law, doctrine.

[tiger_handheld]

You guys do realize that I put "theory" in quotation marks for a reason right?

[underscore]

^ if the vast majority of the respected scientific community agrees on something, should we still waste valuable school time teaching something with no scientific backing held by a minority?

The way I saw these two things beings related was...

I think the ways in which they are completely different are much more significant than the ways in which they are related. The only way in which I see them as similar is their shared likelihood of annoying members of a certain religious group who are stereotypically not terribly good at understanding the entire world does not have to bow to their churches outdated ideas.

[SkinnyPupp]

Always a good discussion here on RS!

The way I saw these two things beings related was...

Ireland 'accepted' another view of the word 'marriage' - for some marriage is still binary, if you will - man and women - nothing else. For others it's not binary.

Scottland on the other hand, took a 'theory' called creationism and banned it outright from the science class (all we know it could be from public education, but it's unclear at this time - but lets presume it is as that would make the most sense).

The definition of 'how humans came into existence' is now binary (evolution only) there is no room for debate (it doesn't matter how far fetch the theory of creationism is - it no longer matters)

The two are related because, in one instance you are expanding the meaning by telling the world 'hey there is more than your traditional definition of marriage' while on the other 'hey there is only one definition of how we came into existence'.

To me this is the bigger picture.

Life is about choices.
It doesn't matter how far fetched those choices seem to be or claim to be.
Each individual should be given the opportunity to chose their own views and for most of us we start to learn these 'views' at school (useful or not).
I respect that your religion is important to you, I really do. Whatever it does for you and your family is probably a good thing for the most part.

However creationism is not a theory, and is not something to teach as a valid alternative to what we can best theorize is actually the origin of our species. Although it's harmless to believe and teach your own children in church and at home, it shouldn't be taught to people who aren't a part of your religion. Public school has to be agnostic.

Many religious groups have their own "theories" (quote unquote, as you used) but like your creationism, they are simply outdated ways of explaining the origin of our species. There was a "time before science" and people needed ways to explain things. Not only would it be unfair to students of every other religious "theory" to teach creationism in science in public schools, it would be literally wrong, since it's not scientific (as you said so yourself in another post).

As for marriage, you said it right there "for some marriage is between a man and a woman". Well for those people, they are free to marry a man if they are a woman, and vice versa. For others, marriage is not binary. Marriage is between two people who want to spend the rest of their lives together, and make that commitment. Why would you want to prevent people from doing that just because they're the same gender? It makes no logical sense... Just because you have specific beliefs (and again, I respect those beliefs), doesn't mean the rest of the world has to adhere to them.

And the subjects are not equal. Nobody is forcing you to not teach your children about creationism. We just don't want to teach our children about it. But if we want to, we have the choice. And if a gay couple wants to marry, they have the choice now too (finally)

[parm104]

You guys are still sitting here debating a pointless topic. Who cares if creationism is a theory or a reality. The point is simple. It's foundations are based on biblical notions and therefore has no place in the public sector school system. There isn't much else too it.

It's REALLY pointless and circular arguing someone's belief system. If you believe it in, respect, power to you, no one can tell you what you should or should not believe in, personally.

But, the point that it should be taught in a science classroom is nonsensical. One religious belief system simply cannot be promoted to young, impressionable minds - by the government that is.

[Tone Loc]

You guys are still sitting here debating a pointless topic. Who cares if creationism is a theory or a reality. The point is simple. It's foundations are based on biblical notions and therefore has no place in the public sector school system. There isn't much else too it.


This. It is a public school system, that is, it is ran and funded by the government. A democratic government must be secular; it should not respect one religion more than another. Therefore, teaching creationism in public schools is tantamount to the government officially sanctioning a certain religion as "better" than the rest.

I personally would have no problem with creationism being taught in private schools. Why? Because that's not taxpayer money; if you want to pay money out of your own pocket so your kid can learn that humans just popped out of nowhere, that computers are powered by mana, or that Nicki Minaj's ass is real, that's your choice. But get that shit out of the public school system which should reflect the best of what we know to be tested fact.

If you believe that all kids should be indoctrinated to reflect a religious agenda, you might as well move to Saudi Arabia and follow Sharia law. Because that's exactly what a government that recognizes a "best religion" looks like.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

i think you guys that are 100% on the science side are missing the point...

the question is, when does science become biblical?

how many people do you think out there even believe half the shit in the "delusion of science" video i posted. the dogmas and stuff like that?

If i said there is a possibility that the chair you're sitting on, or stars are conscious. in fact there is more evidence to prove that they are vs aren't. how many people do you think would laugh. and then go and state some dogmatic shit they learnt and leave it at that?

is that not biblical to you?

how many times have you guys hear some excuse like
“it hasn’t been observed” or something rather.

only to have it debunked or whatever years or decades later.

WHO do you think are the people that came up with the theories?
WHO do you think are the people that quickly used some scientific dismissal like “it hasn’t been observed”.

you REALLY think the latter person is a scientist? or just following dogma. like any other religion. except in his mind, this "science" he follows has a rule where the dogmatic rules can be slightly shifted and corrected. but he's not one to believe anything until someone else fucking comes up with the theory and proves it. until then, he just dismisses everything and points at some scientific fat book and say "see it's not been tested or observed, there is no proof".

do you guys get my drift?

you guys think newton and einstein were looked down on when they had their theories? before they fucking "proved" it through "observation" and "testing"?

WHY is it that einstein and newton had the fucking INTUITION to KNOW these things before they were observed and tested?

cannot it be said that there ARE human beings that are fucking smarter? that can see things that MOST people cant?

and that MOST people can ONLY operate within a rigid system laid down to them? IS THAT NOT RELIGIOUS AND DOGMATIC?!

the problem isnt the RULES being laid down.

it's that PEOPLE ARE CLOSED MINDED. and so fucking square. they dismiss anything intuitive with the primitive facts they have. regurgitated from someone they were told to obey. raised this way, from a system of beliefs and controls.

sid vicious... you say science is a process... yes. but how many people actually believe that?

how many doctors can you go up to and state some new quantum theory, and they'll just fuckin dismiss it and say "i'll believe it when they prove it"

not just doctors, PEOPLE.

Science is a process...

so is religion... the process just operates very differently. but the end result is similar, fuckin people, believing what they want, and choosing some side, and then following it dogmatically and defending it like it is cosmic law... somehow sewn into the fabric of existence and reality itself.

i can tell you guys now, we KNOW NOTHING. there is tons of evidence and theories that are super paradoxical. you tell me how one thing can be true sometimes and false another time. how they can both exist. oh maybe they CAN both exist...

but if something as fucking weird as that can exist... use your intuition...
then can something as weird as gods and what not exist as well?

what IS existence?

do the things in my mind exist? in what context? yes they do exist. because I exist. and therefore my thoughts exist. is my mind somehow completely fenced off from the rest of the fabric of reality? ...if you have a solid answer for that, i would say you're pulling shit outta your ass.

now you can define what is reality and what is not? you would be dismissing tons of theories and evidence of much smarter people that say differently.


i ain't no religious zealot. but i am a free minded person. It's not that i don't BELIEVE in any particular religion (although i'll admit buddhism is semi appealing in some ways).

it's that I have the foresight to realise that everyone is probably wrong and has no idea what the fuck they're actually talking about.

sure science has sent rockets and robots to space.

but you cannot deny that religion hasn't established something either... before the time or religion... the world was very different. much like before the time of science.

you cannot quickly just DISMISS it and say "it's not needed any more".

lol. when it's not needed... nature will have it's way of removing it. it's clearly still needed in many ways for whatever fucking WEIRD reasons.

but like multi said... existence itself is the weirdest mind blowing fucking experience in itself.


If you can semi agree with this, there is no need to say more.

if you TOTALLY disagree with me, perhaps you should look at why you are disagreeing with me. and maybe you're more concerned about having a stable structure to which you can work within and complete goals and tasks... more than discovering the truth behind reality.

insecurities with structure and organization and achievement... have nothing to do with the nature of reality. it's simply a human function. that's it.

i'm gonna go party later guys.


edit:
think about this...
equal marriage... why do you support this? because it's virtuous? because it's nice? because all humans should be equal and treated with respect?
sure whatever answer is fine.
the question is... where does your answer derive from?

does the universe care? does the fabric of reality give two shits about if we slay gay people or give them equal rights?

i don't know.

but i do know that if the universe doesn't care or is indifferent... then what are we doing? are we not dictating and creating our own theories and religion on what is right or wrong? completely pulling it out of our asses. no different than "religion" and all these other "ancient beliefs"

because how can something be right or wrong if the universe doesnt give a fuck at all? we as humans can somehow dictate what is right and wrong, and become ABOVE reality itself? we as humans dictate to reality what is right and wrong?! LOL!!! WHAT!

OR

the universe DOES give a fuck. and the universe does care. BUT then that means there is a cosmic virtue. that morals and virtue are not just made up by humans. that there IS some "god" or "supreme" being that dictates what is right and wrong. meaning there probably is some form of heaven and hell or something rather. because if they dictate it, it probably means they enforce it somehow. RIGHT?

you guys get my drift?

just a thought process.

[parm104]

i think you guys that are 100% on the science side are missing the point...

the question is, when does science become biblical?

how many people do you think out there even believe half the shit in the "delusion of science" video i posted. the dogmas and stuff like that?

If i said there is a possibility that the chair you're sitting on, or stars are conscious. in fact there is more evidence to prove that they are vs aren't. how many people do you think would laugh. and then go and state some dogmatic shit they learnt and leave it at that?

is that not biblical to you?

how many times have you guys hear some excuse like
“it hasn’t been observed” or something rather.

only to have it debunked or whatever years or decades later.

WHO do you think are the people that came up with the theories?
WHO do you think are the people that quickly used some scientific dismissal like “it hasn’t been observed”.

you REALLY think the latter person is a scientist? or just following dogma. like any other religion. except in his mind, this "science" he follows has a rule where the dogmatic rules can be slightly shifted and corrected. but he's not one to believe anything until someone else fucking comes up with the theory and proves it. until then, he just dismisses everything and points at some scientific fat book and say "see it's not been tested or observed, there is no proof".

do you guys get my drift?

you guys think newton and einstein were looked down on when they had their theories? before they fucking "proved" it through "observation" and "testing"?

WHY is it that einstein and newton had the fucking INTUITION to KNOW these things before they were observed and tested?

cannot it be said that there ARE human beings that are fucking smarter? that can see things that MOST people cant?

and that MOST people can ONLY operate within a rigid system laid down to them? IS THAT NOT RELIGIOUS AND DOGMATIC?!

the problem isnt the RULES being laid down.

it's that PEOPLE ARE CLOSED MINDED. and so fucking square. they dismiss anything intuitive with the primitive facts they have. regurgitated from someone they were told to obey. raised this way, from a system of beliefs and controls.

sid vicious... you say science is a process... yes. but how many people actually believe that?

how many doctors can you go up to and state some new quantum theory, and they'll just fuckin dismiss it and say "i'll believe it when they prove it"

not just doctors, PEOPLE.

Science is a process...

so is religion... the process just operates very differently. but the end result is similar, fuckin people, believing what they want, and choosing some side, and then following it dogmatically and defending it like it is cosmic law... somehow sewn into the fabric of existence and reality itself.

i can tell you guys now, we KNOW NOTHING. there is tons of evidence and theories that are super paradoxical. you tell me how one thing can be true sometimes and false another time. how they can both exist. oh maybe they CAN both exist...

but if something as fucking weird as that can exist... use your intuition...
then can something as weird as gods and what not exist as well?

what IS existence?

do the things in my mind exist? in what context? yes they do exist. because I exist. and therefore my thoughts exist. is my mind somehow completely fenced off from the rest of the fabric of reality? ...if you have a solid answer for that, i would say you're pulling shit outta your ass.

now you can define what is reality and what is not? you would be dismissing tons of theories and evidence of much smarter people that say differently.


i ain't no religious zealot. but i am a free minded person. It's not that i don't BELIEVE in any particular religion (although i'll admit buddhism is semi appealing in some ways).

it's that I have the foresight to realise that everyone is probably wrong and has no idea what the fuck they're actually talking about.

sure science has sent rockets and robots to space.

but you cannot deny that religion hasn't established something either... before the time or religion... the world was very different. much like before the time of science.

you cannot quickly just DISMISS it and say "it's not needed any more".

lol. when it's not needed... nature will have it's way of removing it. it's clearly still needed in many ways for whatever fucking WEIRD reasons.

but like multi said... existence itself is the weirdest mind blowing fucking experience in itself.


If you can semi agree with this, there is no need to say more.

if you TOTALLY disagree with me, perhaps you should look at why you are disagreeing with me. and maybe you're more concerned about having a stable structure to which you can work within and complete goals and tasks... more than discovering the truth behind reality.

insecurities with structure and organization and achievement... have nothing to do with the nature of reality. it's simply a human function. that's it.

i'm gonna go party later guys.


edit:
think about this...
equal marriage... why do you support this? because it's virtuous? because it's nice? because all humans should be equal and treated with respect?
sure whatever answer is fine.
the question is... where does your answer derive from?

does the universe care? does the fabric of reality give two shits about if we slay gay people or give them equal rights?

i don't know.

but i do know that if the universe doesn't care or is indifferent... then what are we doing? are we not dictating and creating our own theories and religion on what is right or wrong? completely pulling it out of our asses. no different than "religion" and all these other "ancient beliefs"

because how can something be right or wrong if the universe doesnt give a fuck at all? we as humans can somehow dictate what is right and wrong, and become ABOVE reality itself? we as humans dictate to reality what is right and wrong?! LOL!!! WHAT!

OR

the universe DOES give a fuck. and the universe does care. BUT then that means there is a cosmic virtue. that morals and virtue are not just made up by humans. that there IS some "god" or "supreme" being that dictates what is right and wrong. meaning there probably is some form of heaven and hell or something rather. because if they dictate it, it probably means they enforce it somehow. RIGHT?

you guys get my drift?

just a thought process.



You wrote SO much yet made so very little sense. No, you made NO sense at all!

The idea/concept that I am sitting on a chair is biblical? WTF.

[SkinnyPupp]

I'm afraid ulic's third eye has taken over the rest of his brain. He's basically CiC now.

[Mikoyan]

Perhaps a better way to think about it is that you don't believe in science. You believe in the evidence that supports the science. The beauty is that the evidence for science works whether you believe in it or not.

You want to believe that Adam and Eve had a pet T-rex and the Earth is 5000 years old? Good for you. It doesn't make your belief correct. It makes you look like an idiot for blindly believing that the bible is to be taken literally.

I was raised Roman Catholic, and I realized at some point that the teachings weren't to be taken literally, and the creation stories were the best attempts by people at that time to make sense of how the universe and the world came about. Just as science is trying to now. Even the Pope has come out and said evidence for evolution has pushed it past being just a theory. And that was John Paul, not Francis.

I figured this out before I was twelve. If you're a grown ass adult and you're spouting nonsense like this still? I feel sorry for you.

You know what crazy scientific theory looks like? Our universe is a Matrix-like game run by ALIENS, says NASA scientist | Tech | Life & Style | Daily Express (http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/575653/The-Matrix-Universe-Planet-Earth-NASA-Scientist)

That to me looks like a 'God' creating a universe theory. You tell me that happened in 5000 of our years, and I'll know what kind of person you are.

[mr_chin]

Perhaps a better way to think about it is that you don't believe in science. You believe in the evidence that supports the science. The beauty is that the evidence for science works whether you believe in it or not.

You want to believe that Adam and Eve had a pet T-rex and the Earth is 5000 years old? Good for you. It doesn't make your belief correct. It makes you look like an idiot for blindly believing that the bible is to be taken literally.

I was raised Roman Catholic, and I realized at some point that the teachings weren't to be taken literally, and the creation stories were the best attempts by people at that time to make sense of how the universe and the world came about. Just as science is trying to now. Even the Pope has come out and said evidence for evolution has pushed it past being just a theory. And that was John Paul, not Francis.

I figured this out before I was twelve. If you're a grown ass adult and you're spouting nonsense like this still? I feel sorry for you.

You know what crazy scientific theory looks like? Our universe is a Matrix-like game run by ALIENS, says NASA scientist | Tech | Life & Style | Daily Express (http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/575653/The-Matrix-Universe-Planet-Earth-NASA-Scientist)

That to me looks like a 'God' creating a universe theory. You tell me that happened in 5000 of our years, and I'll know what kind of person you are.

Every one has their own opinions, theories, beliefs, whatever. A person who doesn't believe in science will tell the believer that it's BS and that he shouldn't believe it. A person who doesn't believe in religion will say religion is retarded, lies, etc. etc.

You can have your say about being the "sane" one here but don't try to convert/force others to believe or not believe in what they've already have.

[Manic!]

:And they teach this to kids. :seriously: :fulloffuck:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCSQg1jteAo

[Mikoyan]

Every one has their own opinions, theories, beliefs, whatever. A person who doesn't believe in science will tell the believer that it's BS and that he shouldn't believe it. A person who doesn't believe in religion will say religion is retarded, lies, etc. etc.

You can have your say about being the "sane" one here but don't try to convert/force others to believe or not believe in what they've already have.

I didnt say anything about forcing my views on others. You're the one who read what wasn't there. You have the right to believe whatever you want. I'm not anti religion, you tell me there's a guiding intelligence running things? That's fine.

I have a problem with the small subset of religious people who believe in the literal interpretation, because it's factually wrong.

Religion and science can coexist. A lot of scientific research back in the day was done by scientists being supported by the church. The evidence for science doesn't rely on you believing in it or not. It will still work the same.

[mr_chin]

I didnt say anything about forcing my views on others. You're the one who read what wasn't there. You have the right to believe whatever you want. I'm not anti religion, you tell me there's a guiding intelligence running things? That's fine.

I have a problem with the small subset of religious people who believe in the literal interpretation, because it's factually wrong.

Religion and science can coexist. A lot of scientific research back in the day was done by scientists being supported by the church. The evidence for science doesn't rely on you believing in it or not. It will still work the same.

"Force" was probably the wrong term to use, but you are sorta sending a subtle message to convince people to not believe in religion, or the literal interpretation. I would like to know what you mean by literal interpretation? Like Adam and Eve? Satan? God? Angels? Demons?

It's unfair to debate about religion versus science because religion can't be proven with physical evidence, but it doesn't mean it's not true. The problem I have with this topic is that one side will tell the other side they're wrong, and it never ends.

Religion can be explained by science, and science and be explained by religion. If you're talking about proofs, neither side can prove the other wrong.

[hotshot1]

You're right, just because theres no evidence doesnt mean something is not true. It can very well be true but until there's hard evidence, we have to assume its not true and therefore it cannot be taught in a science class.

If we start teaching something that may or may not be true, then why shouldn't random guy Bruce's wisdom obtained from his invisible friend also be taught in school? Bruce says that his invisible friend told him that drinking cat piss allows you to enter a parallel universe. It's just as valid as anything in the Bible.

Also, the beauty of science is that everything is constantly changing and our understanding of the universe is increasing. If something previously thought to be a hard fact is proved wrong, then great, we'll all go with the updated info. There's nothing to "believe", nothing like "well this is what was said 2000 years ago so it has to be true despite any evidence because the evidence is gods way to testing our faith" billshit.

I have to stress again that anything can be possible but unless there are facts to back up a claim, then we can't treat it as fact, no matter how many billion people believe it to be true.

[Eastwood]

We're going to ban thousands of years of research for a THEORY that's been proved to be false that's only existed for a couple hundred years.

Science has people brainwashed. Instead of banning prayer in school, we should ban science.

END RANT

[Ronin]

Research?

A lack of evidence doesn't prevent something from being true...it just prevents it from being facts. Facts are what should be taught in school.

If you teach creationism, how about all the other religions that believe in some other theory of how the world came to be? How can you justify teaching Christianity in schools that may have Muslim or Buddhist or whatever other religion kids?

Religion should not be part of education or government. The problem is that people don't understand that what they believe to be true isn't true for everyone.

If religion is that important to you, send your kids to private schools run by religious organizations but teaching religion in school is irresponsible and discriminatory.

[Manic!]

We're going to ban thousands of years of research for a THEORY that's been proved to be false that's only existed for a couple hundred years.

Science has people brainwashed. Instead of banning prayer in school, we should ban science.

END RANT

So god created the internet?

[StylinRed]

As an aside, another species has been discovered that co-existed with Lucy et al.

'New species' of ancient human found - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-32906836)

also tools that pre-date humans

Oldest stone tools pre-date earliest humans - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-32804177)


(seems to be the best place for it :P)

[6o4__boi]

This thread is full of lulz.

[carisear]

I love reading these replies. pretty entertaining!

I grew up going to sunday school every week, etc, however I am completely not religious now. What I got from religion, was that it gave a framework for people to live their lives by, which would be for the betterment of society. It also was a means to explain the unexplainable.

I used to be pretty close-minded, but now I think I've gone completely opposite, and become 100% open-minded. What does that mean? It means I can understand exactly what ulic is conveying. I agree with him on quite a few points. We could all be in a men-in-black marble being played with by ginormous aliens. can we prove it? nope. can we disprove it? nope. But it's entirely plausible 1000 years from now the future-us will look back and laugh at how we believed in 'science'.

on a side note, I laugh at all of the SJW's who make a point of saying they are for gay marriage, but not for polygamy, or any other form of marriage between a man/woman and something else. I'm of the opinion that since the definitely of marriage has now changed, it should be opened up completely.

[underscore]

on a side note, I laugh at all of the SJW's who make a point of saying they are for gay marriage, but not for polygamy, or any other form of marriage between a man/woman and something else. I'm of the opinion that since the definitely of marriage has now changed, it should be opened up completely.

I'm of the opinion that since marriage has legal impact on things like taxes then any two consenting adults should be allowed to financially and legally join themselves. As marrying a rock (for example) makes no changes to someones legal or financial situation there is no point in the government wasting its time trying to understand it, not to mention the rock cannot possibly consent to the union.

Polygamy is a slightly complex situation and a bit of a special case, it does start to make things a tad complicated when it comes to legal and financial matters and as I recall some groups have tried to use it to illegally dodge taxes and such.

[Yodamaster]

Treating religion like it's the only truth doesn't belong in school, that's what religious institutions such as churches are for. Religious parents can take their kids to church on Sundays if they want their religion to be taught in detail to their children.

It's really as simple as that, nobody is treading on anyone by banning religious teachings in schools. The only exception is in social studies, briefly covering religion since it relies on the history of humanity as a whole. That isn't to say that students cannot practice religion with themselves on their own time at school.

Ex: "different religions exist, and have existed for (x) years, this is how they influenced society"


Most of what we rely on to keep modern civilization running owes itself to science, so if you feel so strongly about rejecting it, please feel free to slip on your hand stitched wool clothes and run off into the forest.

[hotshot1]

We're going to ban thousands of years of research for a THEORY that's been proved to be false that's only existed for a couple hundred years.

Science has people brainwashed. Instead of banning prayer in school, we should ban science.

END RANT

This has to be sarcastic.