[meme405]

First the story:

B.C. conservation officer Bryce Casavant has been suspended without pay for refusing to kill two black bear cubs near Port Hardy after their mother was killed for repeatedly raiding a freezer full of meat and salmon.

Despite an order to kill the cubs too, Casavant took them to a veterinary hospital. They are now at a recovery centre run by the North Island Wildlife Recovery Association in Errington, which like Port Hardy is on Vancouver Island.

Robin Campbell, the recovery centre's manager, said the conservation officer did the right thing as the cubs are not habituated to humans and can be reintroduced to the wild.

"[The mother bear] was a problem, but these cubs did nothing."

After Casavant's suspension was reported in a community paper, an online petition was started asking Environment Minister Mary Polak to reinstate the officer.

Mother bear raided freezer

The conservation service had been called by a homeowner to deal with the cubs' mother after she repeatedly raided the freezer inside a mobile home south of Port Hardy, said Campbell.

After a community paper, the North Island Gazette, posted a story showing the tranquillized cubs, a petition was started to reinstate the conservation officer. (North Island Gazette)

The cubs — a brother and sister — returned to the property looking for their mother.

They climbed a tree next to the mobile home, and were removed by a team of firefighters and the conservation officer.

Casavant tranquillized the cubs and took them to a veterinarian, who found they were in good health, Campbell said.

Campbell, whose facility has a provincial permit to rehabilitate black bears, called the order to kill the cubs unusual, since they were fearful of humans and good candidates for release.

"In 30 years, this is the first time we've ever had an issue like this," he said. "There has to be some kind of misunderstanding ... hopefully somebody will come to their senses."

The B.C. Ministry of Environment hasn't said what it plans to do about the cubs now, but in a statement said the Conservation Officer Service is investigating "this situation, including the actions of its members."

"This is a very sad and unfortunate situation," said Polak in a statement. "Although conservation officers must sometimes put down wild animals for the safety of the public and the welfare of the animal, we understand how difficult it is for all involved."

Polak said senior biologists and the provincial wildlife veterinarian are involved in the decision whether to relocate or destroy an animal, in addition to the local conservation officer.

The ministry said it would not comment on personnel matters due to privacy rules.

Casavant confirmed he was suspended without pay over the cubs, but declined to comment further.

TL;DR - Conservation officer refuses order to put down two innocent cubs, takes them to a shelter, shelter says they are perfect for re-rehabilitation and re-release. Officer still gets suspended without pay.

Story is here:

Bryce Casavant, conservation officer, suspended for refusing to kill bear cubs - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bryce-casavant-conservation-officer-suspended-for-refusing-to-kill-bear-cubs-1.3141652)

[meme405]

Now this bugs me for a lot of reasons, some obvious, but some not so much. Obviously he should be commended for his ability to think for himself, and not simply follow ridiculous orders. I would certainly never punish and employee if they refused to follow an order and ended up making the correct decision.

The bigger concern I have is the severity of his punishment. You look at other prevalent cases of suspension in some other government organizations and it doesn't take long to see a big gap. I hate to do it, but RCMP and local police departments immediately come to mind. Over the years I have seen so many cases of RCMP members who have been relegated to desk duties, or suspended with pay, and I always ask myself "WOW he did that and still gets to go to work? I would have motherfucking fired his ass."

I decided to dig up some cases:

http://globalnews.ca/news/1450743/update-rcmp-inspector-tim-shields-suspended-with-pay/

Multiple officers accuse a High profile RCMP insp. of sexual assault and he gets suspended with pay.

Const. Taylor Robinson suspended 6 days for shoving woman on Vancouver street - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/const-taylor-robinson-suspended-6-days-for-shoving-woman-on-vancouver-street-1.2853785)

Const. Robinson Shoves an unprovoked disabled woman to the ground, only received a 6 day suspension

Court fines North Vancouver RCMP officer who blew through speed trap as 'prank' (http://www.nsnews.com/news/court-fines-north-vancouver-rcmp-officer-who-blew-through-speed-trap-as-prank-1.628217)

How about this fucking winner who blew through a speed trap at 60km/h over the limit, and led other officers on a chase as a prank. He didn't even get suspended.

UPDATED: Cops drive drunk, get into fights, humiliate female co-workers: annual report | (CKNW AM) AM980 (http://www.cknw.com/2015/04/14/flashing-the-badge-backfires-for-metro/)

A whole slew of incidents in this one. Officers fighting, driving drunk, harassing people, they all get just a few days suspension without pay.

Police officers busted for cocaine, hiring prostitute, drunk driving - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/police-officers-busted-for-cocaine-hiring-prostitute-drunk-driving-1.2598625)

-In Abbotsford, a female officer pulled over a car for failing to stop and forced the female motorist to the ground at gunpoint where she was handcuffed. The motorist was eventually released without charge, but given a traffic ticket for failing to provide a driver's licence. However, the police complaints commission found the officer had not provided the woman a reasonable opportunity to produce her licence. The officer was given a written reprimand and sent for retraining.

-In Victoria, an officer used his department's email address to send a photo of a naked male. He was suspended without pay for eight days.

-A New Westminster officer drove his car into a rock, sustaining minor damage. It was the officer's sixth motor vehicle accident in six years, four of which were his fault. The officer was sent for driver assessment and training.

I am likely missing so many, I remember many about impaired police officers, or police using excessive force, etc.

My point is that how sad is this... That we allow all these bad officers who taint the name of all those who serve and protect us off basically scot free, and this poor dude who was just trying to do the right thing is suspended without pay indefinitely?

This system is fucking ridiculous.

[multicartual]

In life, when you do the right thing or stand up for your moral convictions, you most likely will go broke or be punished


If you go with the flow and promote increasing amounts of entropy or dominance of one form or another, you will get fat paid

[Nomomo]

Spoken like the moral authority of revscene. Curtsey
In life, when you do the right thing or stand up for your moral convictions, you most likely will go broke or be punished


If you go with the flow and promote increasing amounts of entropy or dominance of one form or another, you will get fat paid

[multicartual]

Spoken like the moral authority of revscene. Curtsey


You sound like a girl who is angry over getting dumped after like 5 years and 20 pump and dumps later

[GabAlmighty]

It's a messed up world/society we live in my friend.

[Jmac]

Now this bugs me for a lot of reasons, some obvious, but some not so much. Obviously he should be commended for his ability to think for himself, and not simply follow ridiculous orders. I would certainly never punish and employee if they refused to follow an order and ended up making the correct decision.

The bigger concern I have is the severity of his punishment. You look at other prevalent cases of suspension in some other government organizations and it doesn't take long to see a big gap. I hate to do it, but RCMP and local police departments immediately come to mind. Over the years I have seen so many cases of RCMP members who have been relegated to desk duties, or suspended with pay, and I always ask myself "WOW he did that and still gets to go to work? I would have motherfucking fired his ass."

I decided to dig up some cases:

UPDATE: RCMP Inspector Tim Shields suspended with pay - BC | Globalnews.ca (http://globalnews.ca/news/1450743/update-rcmp-inspector-tim-shields-suspended-with-pay/)



Const. Taylor Robinson suspended 6 days for shoving woman on Vancouver street - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/const-taylor-robinson-suspended-6-days-for-shoving-woman-on-vancouver-street-1.2853785)



Court fines North Vancouver RCMP officer who blew through speed trap as 'prank' (http://www.nsnews.com/news/court-fines-north-vancouver-rcmp-officer-who-blew-through-speed-trap-as-prank-1.628217)



UPDATED: Cops drive drunk, get into fights, humiliate female co-workers: annual report | (CKNW AM) AM980 (http://www.cknw.com/2015/04/14/flashing-the-badge-backfires-for-metro/)



Police officers busted for cocaine, hiring prostitute, drunk driving - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/police-officers-busted-for-cocaine-hiring-prostitute-drunk-driving-1.2598625)



I am likely missing so many, I remember many about impaired police officers, or police using excessive force, etc.

My point is that how sad is this... That we allow all these bad officers who taint the name of all those who serve and protect us off basically scot free, and this poor dude who was just trying to do the right thing is suspended without pay indefinitely?

This system is fucking ridiculous.
All bad, but none of those are disobeying the direct orders of a superior.

Most of these types of organizations (RCMP, BCAS, etc.) are run in a paramilitary-like fashion and things like insubordination are treated severely.

For the record, I'm not saying I agree with it.

[meme405]

All bad, but none of those are disobeying the direct orders of a superior.

Most of these types of organizations (RCMP, BCAS, etc.) are run in a paramilitary-like fashion and things like insubordination are treated severely.

For the record, I'm not saying I agree with it.

Right. Makes sense, and not directed at you since you made it clear you don't agree with it. But for the sake of conversation:

But that raises a different issue. Does "Don't drink and drive" have to be a direct command from a superior in order for officers not to commit a crime?

Like what every night before the PO's leave to go home, their commanding officer is supposed to come in and rally them all and tell them; "oh by the way guys, on your way home try not kill a bystander, run over a puppy, assault my grandma, or do any illegal drugs".

Like come on man.

There is no justification why not listening to an order should be treated more severely than BREAKING THE LAWS THAT APPLY TO EVERYONE.

This is exactly why police shouldn't be allowed to police themselves, an authority needs to be set up which has oversight over the RCMP and Local detachments. You can't expect the RCMP to investigate WVPD, and vice versa when there is problems.

[punkwax]

Kudos to him.

[dvst8]

inb4 crowd funding to pay his wages.

[GabAlmighty]

All bad, but none of those are disobeying the direct orders of a superior.

Most of these types of organizations (RCMP, BCAS, etc.) are run in a paramilitary-like fashion and things like insubordination are treated severely.

For the record, I'm not saying I agree with it.

It's definitely not. Military actually has integrity and SEVERELY punishes it's members who disobey the law, let alone an order.

[white rocket]

yup, total bullshit. People move to where bears are. Then the bears look for food there, obviously. Then we shoot and kill the bears. Way to go humanity.

As much as I understand the logic behind, it doesn't mean I like it or have to agree with it. It's like North Van even. People are like, "OMG, there's a bear in my yard!!" Well no shit, they were there long before you y0!. Why are you moving into bear territory then shocked when bears come around.

[Great68]

Big fucking deal, black bears are not endangered.

This article is fucked, all it does is play on the "cuddwy wuddwy" factor of baby bears.

I can't imagine that the guy who issued the orders to shoot the bear would have made the decision arbitrarily.

So what if this guy didn't shoot the bears, and then they grow up to terrorize and potentially harm humans in the future? Will this guy still deserve people calling him a "hero"?

[meme405]

Big fucking deal, black bears are not endangered.

This article is fucked, all it does is play on the "cuddwy wuddwy" factor of baby bears.

I can't imagine that the guy who issued the orders to shoot the bear would have made the decision arbitrarily.

So what if this guy didn't shoot the bears, and then they grow up to terrorize and potentially harm humans in the future? Will this guy still deserve people calling him a "hero"?

Right so we should just go and exterminate every bear, because they could possibly pose a risk to people in the future? Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit

And go back and actually read the article, the expert on bears (the place where the conservation officer took the bears), said that these two cubs are PERFECT candidates for rehabilitation and release. So obviously the person who made the call to kill them did make either an arbitrary decision, or a misinformed one.

To punish an employee when he decided to do the right thing, and ended up making the correct decision is just idiotic.

To further that if you read what I posted this issue raises a great concern about how governmental organizations run themselves. If this single action by this conservation officer is enough to deserve suspension without pay, do you still believe that a Police officer caught doing drugs, or driving drunk deserves the same punishment?

I'd definitely argue not, doing drugs, or driving while impaired is a WAY WORSE crime than what this conservation officer did.

So my question to you: Who's punishment is incorrect? is this guy's punishment too harsh, or is the punishment for PO's who act out too light?

[GLOW]

are conservation officers part of a union? maybe rcmp's union is stronger and protects them better?

the article noted the baby bears went back to the same place to look for their mom :(
does that pose a risk that they will continue to be in the area hoping their mom will return in that area?

[fsy82]

are conservation officers part of a union? maybe rcmp's union is stronger and protects them better?

the article noted the baby bears went back to the same place to look for their mom :(
does that pose a risk that they will continue to be in the area hoping their mom will return in that area?

RCMP do not have a union

[Berzerker]

are conservation officers part of a union? maybe rcmp's union is stronger and protects them better?

the article noted the baby bears went back to the same place to look for their mom :(
does that pose a risk that they will continue to be in the area hoping their mom will return in that area?


They will be flown far away and reintroduced to the wild. The order probably came because the Mother bear was teaching her young to feed from easy food sources rather than getting it from the wild. If they already learned that humans are easy to get food from (this is probably the concern of the person whom gave the order) then they will likely be a risk later in life. However, giving them the chance to be looked over and find out for sure was the right call. If they were in fact compromised the Vet could put them down just as easily as the CO.

Berz out.

[Hondaracer]

Lulz @ people's priorities.

At the end of the day it's two bears, two. People were about to riot over spending 100k on yoga day, yet you're willing to spend 50k+ to save a couple Cubs?

[underscore]

I love how people oversimplify wild animals as if relocating them is free and guarantees they'll live a problem free life off in the wild. If their mother never taught them how to get food properly or they're too young to do it themselves what are the odds they'll be alive a year from now? What's the budget like for things like this, is there plenty of money to relocate two large, non-endangered animals or is that going to impact the ability to help endangered animals later on?

It's all well and good for some moron like Ricky Gervais to make demands based on ignorance, but here in the real world people need to think of the whole picture before throwing money at things.

TL;DR - Conservation officer refuses order to put down two innocent cubs, takes them to a shelter, shelter says they are perfect for re-rehabilitation and re-release. Officer still gets suspended without pay.

Is suspending him without pay not a normal response to something that needs to be investigated after an order was ignored? Otherwise if you let him keep on working then you also need to let anyone else whose actions are being investigated for ignoring an order keep on working as well, which sounds like a pretty stupid idea.

[meme405]

I get the response about the cubs, I couldn't care less about how people feel about them, but I would be way happier to spend 100k on those two cubs, rather than seeing crusty cunt and her saggy tits doing downward dog on some bridge.

Regardless that's why I have been focusing more on the punishment of this conservation officer in relation to other vaguely similar suspensions.

Is suspending him without pay not a normal response to something that needs to be investigated after an order was ignored? Otherwise if you let him keep on working then you also need to let anyone else whose actions are being investigated for ignoring an order keep on working as well, which sounds like a pretty stupid idea.

Here:

B.C. RCMP officer investigated after violent arrest caught on tape - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-rcmp-officer-investigated-after-violent-arrest-caught-on-tape-1.2794428)

RCMP officer punches a helpless handcuffed kid in the head on video, and he was placed on desk duties while the investigation was completed.

That's the norm that I have seen all the time, while an investigation occurs most officers are placed on desk duties or paid suspension.



EDIT:

I love how people oversimplify wild animals as if relocating them is free and guarantees they'll live a problem free life off in the wild. If their mother never taught them how to get food properly or they're too young to do it themselves what are the odds they'll be alive a year from now? What's the budget like for things like this, is there plenty of money to relocate two large, non-endangered animals or is that going to impact the ability to help endangered animals later on?

And your more of an expert on the matter than the guy who does this for a living? You know the Campbell guys who has devoted his life to these animals, and has a permit and education on rehabilitating bears?

Cause that dude said SPECIFICALLY and I quote:

Campbell, whose facility has a provincial permit to rehabilitate black bears, called the order to kill the cubs unusual, since they were fearful of humans and good candidates for release.

So I really don't know who to believe here, some random guy, or someone who actually has training and education in the matter....

[Hondaracer]

I don't want 100k spent on two cubs, period. Hell, IMO 20k is too much tax money to try and rehabilitate and relocate them, especially if this is standard operating procedure.

[meme405]

I don't want 100k spent on two cubs, period. Hell, IMO 20k is too much tax money to try and rehabilitate and relocate them, especially if this is standard operating procedure.

DO you have any clue how much it costs for the process? or are you just pulling numbers out of your ass?



FOCUS people, answer my big question:

Do you believe that this guys deserves a harsher punishment than a police officer who drove while being drunk?

[68style]

In before David Booth files application to adopt said bears

[Hondaracer]

Let's see..

Minimum 2 CO's + to capture them, plus the time to set up a trap, check it daily, gas to drive to the location, equipment involved in relocation.

Then either drive or fly them to some of the remote camps where they will go through MONTHS of rehabilitation and adaptation, the costs of food, staff, logistics, your guess

After months to a year of rehab, once again tranquilize/sedate them, find a suitable location to relocate them, have numerous CO's once again drive/fly them to location, tag/track and release once again.

I absolutely guarantee you the minimum in the administration costs alone through this procedure are no less than $20,000.

If it is standard operating procedures to kill Cubs in this situation then comparing them to the joke Monty Robinson is irrelevant.

[Hondaracer]

Besides the point, there's dirt balls in chilliwack going and killing spring bears completely legally and dumping the meat in the garbage by the time they get home and people are concerned with two fucking Cubs because they think they are the reincarnation of Winnie the Pooh? Fuck

[meme405]

Besides the point, there's dirt balls in chilliwack going and killing spring bears completely legally and dumping the meat in the garbage by the time they get home and people are concerned with two fucking Cubs because they think they are the reincarnation of Winnie the Pooh? Fuck

Man, and I thought I am just a capitalist pig who doesn't give a fuck about the environment.

Once again, if you go back and read, you are the one who made this more about the bears. My original post and intent for this thread was to look at the actions of the CO, and similar scenarios within the RCMP, and see if his actions were worthy of the punishment he is receiving.

So AGAIN:

Do you believe that this guys deserves a harsher punishment than a police officer who drove while being drunk? Don't keep peddling on about the fucking bears, I don't give a fuck what they do with those bears.

[7seven]

DO you have any clue how much it costs for the process? or are you just pulling numbers out of your ass?



FOCUS people, answer my big question:

Do you believe that this guys deserves a harsher punishment than a police officer who drove while being drunk?

Police officers being suspended with or without pay is governed by Provincial Police Acts and only allow suspension without pay in certain situations. It's not something that their commanding officer or the Police Chief determines willy nilly, I'm sure there are lots of times where they want to suspend an individual without pay, but legislation does not allow it. I know a lot of people get mad at the police in general about some officers being suspended with pay, but really that should be directed towards politicians to change the act. For the record, I agree in a lot of the examples you gave, the officer should have been suspended without pay. Article from last year about Ontario Police Chief trying to get act changed to allow suspension without pay Should cops charged with offences, misconduct, be suspended without pay? - Hamilton - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/should-cops-charged-with-offences-misconduct-be-suspended-without-pay-1.2616640)

Then there is also the issue of you are dealing with unionized employees (police officers), and it is not always easy to suspend without pay or terminate a member without a conviction or full investigation. Also like the general public, an officer has the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, so simply having charges brought against someone wouldn't always be grounds for termination or suspension without pay until a conviction or investigation is complete. You see this in the private sector as well, see very public examples of Adrian Peterson, Greg Hardy in NFL, Slava Voynov in NHL, all suspended for criminal charges but still collected salaries. At my work, non-unionized, you should see the hoops we have to jump through to terminate an employee to protect from any potential wrongful termination litigation, even if there is just cause, it is quite the process.

In this case of the conservation officer, I don't know if Conservation Officers are governed under the Police Services Act, I don't think they are, so the criteria for allowable suspension with or without pay would be different than the police officers you often hear of that are suspended with pay. Perhaps disobeying a direct order from commanding officer/supervisor is in their act or contract as an allowable offence for suspension without pay.

[Manic!]

Does everyone understand hunting bears is legal in B.C.?

[underscore]

I get the response about the cubs, I couldn't care less about how people feel about them, but I would be way happier to spend 100k on those two cubs, rather than seeing crusty cunt and her saggy tits doing downward dog on some bridge.

That's great and all, but that's not how budgeting works. You can't just pull money from here or there at random.

Regardless that's why I have been focusing more on the punishment of this conservation officer in relation to other vaguely similar suspensions.

RCMP officer punches a helpless handcuffed kid in the head on video, and he was placed on desk duties while the investigation was completed.

That's the norm that I have seen all the time, while an investigation occurs most officers are placed on desk duties or paid suspension.

Do you believe that this guys deserves a harsher punishment than a police officer who drove while being drunk?

CO's aren't members of the RCMP, so I'm not sure how RCMP suspensions are supposed to affect a CO. Maybe try making a direct comparison if you want this argument to carry much weight. As someone else said, generally speaking those in charge can't just pick these things willy-nilly on a case by case basis.

And your more of an expert on the matter than the guy who does this for a living? You know the Campbell guys who has devoted his life to these animals, and has a permit and education on rehabilitating bears?

Cause that dude said SPECIFICALLY and I quote:

"Campbell, whose facility has a provincial permit to rehabilitate black bears, called the order to kill the cubs unusual, since they were fearful of humans and good candidates for release."

So I really don't know who to believe here, some random guy, or someone who actually has training and education in the matter....

1) Learn how the media works, that's not a direct quote from Campbell, and 2) Don't you think the opinions of just a few other experts should be called on first, not just the guy who would most likely be the one getting paid to rehab the bears? Of course he'll be more likely to say they're good candidates for release when the money is going into his pocket.

Now I'm not saying I'm an expert, but I do know that in the real world few animals die of old age. So forgive me for thinking it sounds a bit daft to throw a bunch of money into rehabilitating two bears, of which our province is fortunate to have a large number of already, that could very easily end up dead within a month of being released because that's how the world bloody works. Don't make it sound like them living a long time is a sure thing when it most certainly isn't, this isn't some Disney movie.

[meme405]

CO's aren't members of the RCMP, so I'm not sure how RCMP suspensions are supposed to affect a CO. Maybe try making a direct comparison if you want this argument to carry much weight. As someone else said, generally speaking those in charge can't just pick these things willy-nilly on a case by case basis.

I'm not saying to pick things willy nilly.

I am bringing this up as a talking point, so maybe people will give their heads a shake and realize that something is wrong in the system, when a guy gets suspended without pay for trying to do the right thing, meanwhile a PO gets caught for blatantly breaking the law and gets a lesser punishment.

You don't think that's fucked up?

That's great and all, but that's not how budgeting works. You can't just pull money from here or there at random.

If you go back and read that example was made by someone else, I was simply replying to the comment.

[Great68]

I am bringing this up as a talking point, so maybe people will give their heads a shake and realize that something is wrong in the system, when a guy gets suspended without pay for trying to do the right thing, meanwhile a PO gets caught for blatantly breaking the law and gets a lesser punishment.

You don't think that's fucked up?




The real question and argument here is if what this guy did was really the "right thing".

If it was in fact the "wrong thing" than no, I don't think that's fucked up.

[meme405]

The real question and argument here is if what this guy did was really the "right thing".

If it was in fact the "wrong thing" than no, I don't think that's fucked up.

I don't believe anyone can think what he did was "the wrong thing".

All he did was take the cubs to a veterinarian, from there the decision can still be made to euthanize the cubs if the value isn't seen in re-locating them.

But atleast the effort was made to assess the cubs, and decide what the proper course of action is, versus the original knee jerk reaction by some manager somewhere telling the CO to kill the cubs.


Also there is levels to right and wrong. I'd certainly argue that driving impaired carries a harsher sentence than failing to follow through with an order.

[underscore]

Regardless of how you feel about it he still disobeyed an order, possibly wasted funds and possibly neglected his duties by taking the cubs to a vet. Whether that was the right thing or the wrong thing is why it needs to be investigated and sorted out.

I'm not saying to pick things willy nilly.

I am bringing this up as a talking point, so maybe people will give their heads a shake and realize that something is wrong in the system, when a guy gets suspended without pay for trying to do the right thing, meanwhile a PO gets caught for blatantly breaking the law and gets a lesser punishment.

Once again, they aren't part of the RCMP, so punishments handed out to CO's and RCMP have no bearing on one another. I highly doubt the course of action taken when investigating the actions of a CO are going to be the same as when a PO is being investigated, nor should they be.

Now if the correct course of action when a CO is being investigated is to suspend them without pay then I don't see what the problem is, as if they differ from that correct action on a case by case basis then yes things are being chosen willy nilly.

You don't think that's fucked up?

What's fucked up is that you still seem to think that the RCMP and CO are the same thing.

[Great68]

I don't believe anyone can think what he did was "the wrong thing".



I do, I personally couldn't give less of a shit about 2 non-endangered baby bear cubs.

Shit, If I was there I'd take the gun and I'd shoot them myself.

[meme405]

What's fucked up is that you still seem to think that the RCMP and CO are the same thing.

I know that PO's and CO's are different.

However they are both civil servants. I am merely comparing the differences between two government organizations, and pointing out that there is perhaps some serious faults with allowing police to police themselves.

But you are too hung up on little things to see the big picture.

So forget it. There are hundreds of other people on news websites, phoning into CKNW, facebook comments, pointing out the exact same thing I am here.

[underscore]

If you have a problem with the way the RCMP operates make a thread about it, trying to make a roundabout point using an article about CO's are bears is a bit of a weird way to do it.

As far as the comments of other people, generally speaking the people commenting on news websites and Facebook as fucking morons, so I wouldn't take much comfort in their support.