[und3f3at3d]

Just interested in hearing some of the opinions of the members on here. If you had a rare car, not talking like super collectibles, but like a low mileage clean ITR, NSX, e30 m3, or whatever.

Would you daily drive that thing? Weekend cruiser? Or park it away only for day insurance when you felt like it to retain value?

[320icar]

One of the other members here said it best.

"It's like not fucking your girlfriend in hopes her next boyfriend will find her more desirable"

[fliptuner]

Utility daily and use the fun cars for nights/weekend/track/show.

I definitely wouldn't be commuting with it - especially since the conditions and worksites is crap.

[smoothie.]

One of the other members here said it best.

"It's like not fucking your girlfriend in hopes her next boyfriend will find her more desirable"

While I understand what they're saying...

For me it's more like: I will bang her, I just don't feel like double fisting her.

[CCA-Dave]

Mile it up! Cars are meant to be driven.

I understand that some people buy them as investments (and, given the last 10 years those investments have been more sound than a lot of 'traditional' types of investments)...but to buy a car and never drive it seems so silly to me. But then, I believe one should enjoy life as much as possible along the way...not just at some future date when you can 'afford it'.

[hud 91gt]

Enjoying it as we speak.

[Dragon-88]

Drive it like you stole it!

[hi-revs]

no point in owning it if its gonna be parked in the garage all the time.

[Mike.L]

there is also no point daily driving an expensive car and putting milage on it while not actually having fun. I face palm when i see an M3 with 80-120k and then just get tossed up for sale because its seen its best days and those days were used to simply commute.

Depends on a lot of factors regardless, but you should still have a beater car. The shorter your commute, depending where you live in the winter time and how often your city salts the road, etc. will depend how often you should insure it for driving to actually enjoy it.

[synchrocone]

A major factor is the number of parking spots you have. 10-15 years ago it wasn't uncommon to see a house in Surrey with half a dozen beat up cars parked on the driveway. Granted, outdoors under even a deciduous tree is not a well protected place for a classic or future classic.

I made a huge mistake 4 years ago when I sold my e30 M3. I compare it to this day with my FR-S. I cringe in the fact that the bmw has doubled in value. I have to admit though, I wouldn't be surprised the bmw still would be more expensive to drive the last 3-4 years compared to my now dinged, battered and mysteriously creaky Scion.

There were a lot of factors why I decided new was better. One is, your going to encounter people that know nothing about or appreciate history. Case in point, I should have kicked out my roommate immediately, when he couldn't believe I paid $15,000 for a car nearly the same age as Blake Lively.

[flagella]

One of the other members here said it best.

"It's like not fucking your girlfriend in hopes her next boyfriend will find her more desirable"

Makes no sense. A desirable rare car in mint condition will appreciate in value or hold value really well if you keep it clean and mileage relatively low, while no man is going to find a girl more attractive because she's been banged less times and her value will depreciate as she ages.

That said, weekend warrior is obviously the way to go because that's the only time when you can take the car away from the city for a spirited drive. DDing the car in traffic is such a terrible idea.

[GS8]

It depends on the car.

In my case I had a Pontiac G8. Only 2200 shipped to Canada in only one year. I daily drove it for 3 years. Regret nothing. Cars don't like to sit around, they like to move just like us. Loved all moments with the car. It was easier to sell the car, thanks to banking 3 years worth of memories with it. You can't put a price on that whether the value went up or down.

On the flip side

If you weekend the car, you're rewarding yourself after completing another week of the grind. You could hate your job, your home, your family, whatever but opening the garage or removing the tarp and seeing your ride all ready for you reinvigorates your body and soul. Fire it up and drive with no destination. Just another moment to savour in your ongoing quest to maintain happiness.

And like in the other scenario, you can't put a price on that whether the value went up or down.

IMO, if you're hoarding a car because of economics and not experience, you're doing it wrong.

[westopher]

There is no point commuting in the car and putting pointless miles on it IMO, but to leave the car parked in the garage is not only a waste, its 99% that it will be a stupid and pointless investment. 911s aside, none of these cars climbing in value have out-accellerated other smart investments, (or even inflation since the market crash,) which don't require insurance costs and the value of a garage space in Vancouver, or worse yet, storage costs. These cars that are climbing in value, are basically just climbing enough to make the maintenance and insurance costs offset. You made 25k in 5 years on an e30 m3 and only drove it 2k? Big deal! You also paid 5-10k in insurance, a couple k fixing random crap on an old car and 5k in storage costs for a car you didn't drive! A car being an investment is an anomaly. Making a few grand off of a car sitting in a garage is a fucking waste.

[ZN6]

If I wanted to look at a car and never drive it, I'd go autoart.

I value a car for its performance, not by the dollar hoped to be recovered after buying it and selling it back out.

I just drive it and maintain it. Age will degrade it naturally any ways and parts can be replaced. I just don't bounce the RPM off the rev limiter, but I do like to wind up the engine on those weekend cruises.

[Zulu]

If you think a car is an investment you're doing it wrong.

[prolepsis]

Is the rare car your only car?

If so, then sure, I'd drive it, whether for weekend drives or the daily grind. Of course, I'd take care of the car and try to keep her clean, but I'd also recognize that all the extra miles will accelerate wear and tear.

If you have a second car/beater car, is this car fun to drive too, or is it boring? If it's decently fun (and not as rare), then I'd probably drive the second car more often, as long as I enjoy driving the car as well. It's also nice to swap cars from time to time, to mix things up a bit.

[westopher]

My car is slowly approaching the "no longer low milage" barrier and the value is going to take a hit, but I can assure you, anyone I've ever shot the shit with, driven with, done a track day with or wrenched with all know I'm getting more value out of my car than if I sold it for double. True wealth is the ability to do what you want, and enjoy it. Some of that is gonna cost you some money.

[prolepsis]

My car is slowly approaching the "no longer low milage" barrier and the value is going to take a hit, but I can assure you, anyone I've ever shot the shit with, driven with, done a track day with or wrenched with all know I'm getting more value out of my car than if I sold it for double. True wealth is the ability to do what you want, and enjoy it. Some of that is gonna cost you some money.

Great points. If the car, though rare, or semi-rare, makes you happy, then it's worth it. (Within reason + balance, of course.)

For some folks, happiness = seeing the car parked and not be driven.
For others, happiness = driving the car and building memories/driving stories with the car.

Both approaches work. The approach that's not ideal is when someone would be happy driving the rare car, but doesn't because he or she doesn't want to impact the perceived value of the car. Then this person is missing out, and making sacrifices in thinking that he or she will appreciate the money more so than the driving experience.


On a semi-related tangent, I can't recall the exact study, but I remember reading that people--on the whole--aren't very good at predicting what will make themselves happy. They tend to think x or y will make them happy, but even if they achieve x or y, after a certain period of time, they return to their base level of happiness. Similar to how lottery winners are initially happy, and then after a while, revert back to their previous happiness levels.

[The_AK]

Lifes short, enjoy it.

[TouringTeg]

Many here know I bought a 97 Porsche 911 C4S 1.5 yrs ago with 162kms. It has nearly doubled in value since then! It now has 167kms and I consider it a driver.

Now that the honeymoon stage of owning my dream car has passed, I tend to chose my driving times more wisely so that I get quality drives when I do take it out. (IE early mornings, avoiding rush hour and having time to take back roads).

It has crossed my mind more than a few times that I should sell it or not drive it to keep the kms down. I have a work provided vehicle for daily use and love driving it evenings/weekends when I get some spare time. (Which isn't often with a recently purchased 1939 house and a 1yr old daugher).

Here is a 97 C2S that just sold for well over $100 k CDN with currency conversion and 5%buyer fee. (The C2S is more desirable and it has lower miles than mine)
1997 Porsche 911 Carrera S Coupe | Bring a Trailer (http://bringatrailer.com/listing/1997-porsche-911s-993s-varioram/)

At the end of the day, the car provides more enjoyment for me than having money in the bank.

One thing that I always say is that driving a special car is fun but parking it sucks. Most owners will be worried about damage/theft etc. Your parking situation at work could determine whether you want to commute with it or not.

[underscore]

There is no point commuting in the car and putting pointless miles on it IMO, but to leave the car parked in the garage is not only a waste, its 99% that it will be a stupid and pointless investment.

That depends on your commute, if all you do is sit in traffic then you may as well DD something comfy and cheap on gas, but if even a portion of your commute would be improved by driving your fun car then I say go for it.

Investment-wise I agree, if anyone thinks their car is any kind of investment, or isn't using it to keep the value up, then that's a terrible idea.

[BoostedBB6]

Been there and done that. I have owned a few rare cars in my time and I always drive them. I may pick the types of drives I go on. Not a commuter car but rather something to enjoy. Not to say that I have never commuted in them but I usually take them out to enjoy them.
One thing I find with these types of cars, they seem to retain value even with the miles. Main reason is that to get to those miles and still be in good shape indicates a good owner. Someone who does not skimp on the servicing and such.

I'm looking at another weekend car now, something that will fit this bill exactly and believe me, I will be driving it lots.

[jinxcrusader]

I worked a really shitty job last year. My only motivation to get up and get to work was the 20 minute commute I can be inside my car during the drive.

I work so I could afford my car.

[hi-revs]

Id rather save and put the money from buying a "beater" (whatever the price may be), insuring it, gassing it up, maintaining the beater etc into my nicer daily driven car.
Sure ill rack up kms and have the value depreciate a bit, but i'd have much for satisfaction out of my daily driven nicer car ANY DAY.

I've thought about buy a beater for myself many times now over the last few years, infact i still look for one here and there. But once i find one i dont mind putting the money down for, i think of all the places i can put the money towards in my daily driver whether it'd be mods, maintenance, even preventative maintenance.

My 0.2ct is that whatever i put down in total towards owning a beater car, i can easily complete a huge service on my nicer daily driver which should end up running 10x more reliable than a beater.

Mind you if i owned anything close to a Ferrari, i wouldnt be daily driving it...

[Mike.L]

It ofcourse matters what you drive, anything north of 250 horsepower could cost you 50-80 bucks more on insurance even with majority of the discount.

That is enough money to finance a beater, without even considering gas prices.

[bananana]

One of the other members here said it best.

"It's like not fucking your girlfriend in hopes her next boyfriend will find her more desirable"

My Duc is 1 of 100 worldwide and one of eight in Canada. Two of the PO's never rode the thing. I overpaid a bit for it so I can fuck her brains out every chance I get. These are vehicles, not sculptures. If they didn't operate as machinery they wouldn't have a shred of value.

Unless it's worth millions, drive it like you stole it!

[white rocket]

Daily Commuting = not a chance. But I'd certainly take it out and drive it the way it's meant to be driven. Country road cruising, touge action, HPDE days, etc.

I feel safer on a race track than in rush hour traffic in terms of the chance of a collision. A collision is the only real concern as it takes away from the worth of the car down the road. Having the mileage go up a few thousand per year isn't going to change much of the value.

[Great68]

I'd rather be driving a better car thinking "I wish I put less miles on this thing" than driving a shitty car thinking "I wish I was driving a better car"

[PK-EK]

I take the cluster out of my NSX and drive it around with a high KM JDM cluster i got from Yahoo Auctions.

best of both worlds

[freakshow]

I think the two extremes are bad: having a nice/rare/classic car and either a) driving it 2 times a year, or b) driving it M-F in gridlock on the way to work.

Optimal to me is to have a daily driver for your commute, but still drive your weekend car whenever you want (little or lots)

[hud 91gt]

Makes no sense. A desirable rare car in mint condition will appreciate in value or hold value really well if you keep it clean and mileage relatively low, while no man is going to find a girl more attractive because she's been banged less times and her value will depreciate as she ages.

That said, weekend warrior is obviously the way to go because that's the only time when you can take the car away from the city for a spirited drive. DDing the car in traffic is such a terrible idea.

You think a girl who has been banged by every dude on the block, has a canyon of a vagina; isn't going to be less desirable? Give me a break. I think this goes back to virgins in high school. They may not be fun, but are still a prize. Haha

When your single and in your forties, a low mileage women, with a clean CarFax is hard to find. They appreciate in their own way. Trust me. I've noticed and I'm not even 30 yet.

[Kalize]

drive it once in awhile; no point using any car that is desirable as a daily driver.
no one wants a M3/NSX/ITR etc with 200K kms on it.

[twitchyzero]

no one wants a M3/NSX/ITR etc with 200K kms on it.

craigslist good buys thread tells me otherwise
i personally wouldn't unless it's a stellar deal as a track rat...if you totalled it your wallet will recover in weeks

[multicartual]

One of the other members here said it best.

"It's like not fucking your girlfriend in hopes her next boyfriend will find her more desirable"


RS top quote of 2015

[westopher]

drive it once in awhile; no point using any car that is desirable as a daily driver.
no one wants a M3/NSX/ITR etc with 200K kms on it.
The ones that have 200k are selling for 80% of the ones with 60-100k. That 100k is my idea of 5-15k well spent.

[Tone Loc]

Like someone else said above, the two extremes are bad...

I personally hate driving my AE86 in commuter traffic, I drive like a grandpa and I'm always super sketched out because it amazes me how careless/stupid other drivers are. Currently I am on the hunt for a "beater" Honda or Acura that I can "daily drive" and only take the AE86 out when there are less drivers on the road.

But I can't stand people who have super nice/rare cars and never ever drive them for fear of losing the resale value. What good is a car when all you can do is stare at it in the garage? Also I think it is a pretty big disrespect to the men and women who designed/built/engineered the car because their hard work and effort has essentially turned into a 3,000lb paperweight... go watch the interviews with the engineers who built the Integra Type R and S2000 if you don't know what I mean. Those guys want nothing more than to build a drivers car, not a garage showpiece.

[meme405]

I've noticed and I'm not even 30 yet.

Your not 30!?

Bruhhh, I thought you was old dawgg. Don't know why, maybe cause of the Datsun.

[underscore]

The ones that have 200k are selling for 80% of the ones with 60-100k. That 100k is my idea of 5-15k well spent.

$15k/100k km = $0.15/km. That's a pretty cheap way to enjoy your life.

You think a girl who has been banged by every dude on the block, has a canyon of a vagina; isn't going to be less desirable? Give me a break. I think this goes back to virgins in high school. They may not be fun, but are still a prize. Haha

When your single and in your forties, a low mileage women, with a clean CarFax is hard to find. They appreciate in their own way. Trust me. I've noticed and I'm not even 30 yet.

Of course she might be less desirable, but not significantly, and the person who owns the car isn't the single 40 year old, they're the one that could be banging them in high school. Dating a girl but not sleeping with her to keep her more desirable for her later hubby is the same as owning a car but not driving it: If you already know you don't want to keep it and enjoy it, why have it? The best way to keep the resale value up is to part ways as soon as possible.

I personally hate driving my AE86 in commuter traffic, I drive like a grandpa and I'm always super sketched out because it amazes me how careless/stupid other drivers are.

Now to me that's a completely different scenario. Being selective to avoid possibly damage is logical to me, not driving it to keep the value up is not.

[smoothie.]

honestly this thread its all personal opinion.

some like to drive, some like to park, some like to track.

but don't tell me you don't drool at the minty collector cars of our generation, which wouldn't exist without people that park them.

[westopher]

This thread is more about opinion on people thinking cars like s2k, type Rs, m3s, etc. are collectibles, which is laughable.
We aren't talking about putting away a 1962 ferrari 250 and bringing it out for concours and a couple shows a year. That I can understand, but it certainly wouldn't be my idea of good use. Its probably because I'm not, nor will I ever be so rich that I can just have wasted space and money tied up in cars that I don't get to drive, which first and foremost, is what cars (especially sports cars) are for.

[Mike.L]

To make it simple, do you want to be the grandfather that tells his grand kids about all the cars he owned, or do you want to be the grandfather who can take the kids to the garage and phyiscally show them all his cars and take them out for a spin.

[westopher]

I'd like to be the grandfather that takes my kids for a drive.

[Mike.L]

I'd like to be the grandfather that takes my kids for a drive.

ok fixed

[The_AK]

This thread is more about opinion on people thinking cars like s2k, type Rs, m3s, etc. are collectibles, which is laughable.
We aren't talking about putting away a 1962 ferrari 250 and bringing it out for concours and a couple shows a year. That I can understand, but it certainly wouldn't be my idea of good use. Its probably because I'm not, nor will I ever be so rich that I can just have wasted space and money tied up in cars that I don't get to drive, which first and foremost, is what cars (especially sports cars) are for.

I dont even want to know what you think of my 330.... haha but yea, agreed. It IS personal opinion, each person's definition of enjoying. Does make me wonder if e46 m3 will reach that collector status like e30 has.

[white rocket]

Doubtful that any M3 will be considered to be on the same level as the E30. The differences between the M3 and normal E30 3 series is quite staggering. I think the roof, hood and doors are the only swappable parts. Newer gens did not take it to that level.

[westopher]

The production volume alone is reason enough the other m3s will never carry that same desirability of the e30. It doesn't make them any less awesome though. The AK just because I don't think these cars aren't collector cars doesn't make them cars I'm disinterested in or criticizing. I spent most of my track day lusting after loooonnggs ITR. The fact I can see 10 of them at a trackday is proof enough that they aren't rare enough to stuff in a garage in hopes of making big money one day though. Great cars don't have to be rare, and rare cars aren't always great.

[mb_]

Would drive it everyday. Daily'd (except winter) my MR2 when I had it. Second year was spent doing Surrey to North Van commute everyday.

[multicartual]

To make it simple, do you want to be the grandfather that tells his grand kids about all the cars he owned, or do you want to be the grandfather who can take the kids to the garage and phyiscally show them all his cars and take them out for a spin.


Grandkids in 40 years will be more impressed if you were a drag queen than if you drag raced

[underscore]

To make it simple, do you want to be the grandfather that tells his grand kids about all the cars he owned, or do you want to be the grandfather who can take the kids to the garage and phyiscally show them all his cars and take them out for a spin.

I can just imagine this conversation:

Kid: Woah, you had a [S2000, M3, NSX, whatever]?!
Gramps: I sure did!
Kid: What was it like to drive?
Gramps: Not a clue.

Reminds me of the thread about the guy who was selling off his car collection, clearly the guy had piles of money but most of the cars had more owners than miles. There were two Veyrons in there that had most likely been driven more by the people at the dealer than the owners, pretty sad to have owned not one but two of the most powerful car made and never driven them.

[entrax]

When I bought my MR2 turbo, it only had 117k km's @ 23 years old and all the paperwork dating back to 10km (10, not 10k). Technically the undercoating/anti-chip was still under warranty for another 3k haha. original manuals, old lady purchased and owned for 18 years, etc. Despite it being a much cheaper car than some of the cars mentioned on this thread, it had all the necessary items to fit the collector criteria.

I modified it with newer mr2 items, lsd trans, suspension, wheels, and drove it 45k in the last 2 years. I autocrossed the car, drove it to LA twice, SF, canyon carved Malibu Canyons (mb_ was with me with his FRS with like 6k km on it lol), winter daily, and even til now it still gets daily driven. I've even taken it to Cypress and Whistler two winters ago for snowboarding.

Do I regret it? Nope. The memories made are much more worth the "lost" value in a car. For me, the value of the car is what it has done for me. As far as I'm concerned, the car's already paid me back for what I paid for it.

Only regret is that someone backed into me and now the bumper is not the same color (thanks Boyd).

One other point is that maintenance is key. There's reasons why some cars that are only 50k look like shit compared to a car that has 150k and that I wouldn't buy the 50k km car just for the number.

[hud 91gt]

Your not 30!?

Bruhhh, I thought you was old dawgg. Don't know why, maybe cause of the Datsun.

Nah. Just act like a grandpa. I'm not really old ballz until the end of this year ;)

[Ferra]

I actually would calculate and quantified all the numbers to make the comparison...

e.g if I have a e30 M3, low-km, pristine condition. say worth 50K now.
guesstimating all the repair & maintenance cost, insurance, future values..etc

You might realize driving the car daily for 4 years could cost you $30-40K+ (car value goes down to 15-20K, + repair costs)

it is a nice car, but $40K is enough to lease a brand new 335i/S4 for 4 years.
Do you think you will get more enjoyment driving a E30 M3 for 4 years or a 2015 335i/S4 for 4 years at the same cost?
I am sure some will prefer the E30, others will prefer a new car. Point is, once you put it into a number it makes the comparison much easier

Btw, dont' quote me on those numbers, I am just making random guess. You might find out driving the E30 M3 for another 4 years would only cost you $15K (because it didn't drop much in value + fewer repairs), in which case the cost is comparable to driving a brand new yaris.

[underscore]

^ only problem is you've inflated the E30 losses/costs and decreased the new cars costs. By driving two cars you're spending an extra $4k/yr in insurance on the new car (if it's a brand new 335), plus you're still paying for maintenance. On your older car the value is decreasing either way, but as westopher figured out you're only losing an extra ~25% if you add a pile of km to the clock and it decreases at a slower rate because it's older.

Using your example from above you buy a fairly reliable 25 year old car worth $50k now with 50k on it, you drive it only a little for 4 years, keep the km down under 70k, and you sell it for $40k, so you've lost $10k. You also spend $15k leasing a Yaris to DD for those 4 years and an extra $6k on insurance for the Yaris ($1500/yr). Total cost to you is $31k and you spend most of your time in a Yaris.

Meanwhile your friend buys the same car for $50k with 50k on the clock, DD's it til it hits 150k 4 years later and sells it for $32k (80% of $40k), so he's lost $18k. He didn't have to insure or lease a second car so the total cost to him is $18k and he spend most of his time in his not-Yaris.

So you just spent $13k more than your friend to drive a Yaris to work instead of your fun car for 4 years. Even if the increased mileage causes you to pay for repairs above the usual things every car needs, anything that isn't horrifically unreliable shouldn't cost you more than $13k in surprise repairs over 4 years. And even if it does go a bit over, that's a small price to pay to DD something exciting.

*I left things like basic maintenance costs and the fun cars insurance out of things because those will be the same for both situations.