[Culverin]

VANCOUVER (NEWS 1130) – Starting October 5th, there will be one-zone fare on all buses, all day, every day.

It’s part of the greater rollout of the beleaguered Compass Card program.

More to come

TransLink introducing one-zone fare on buses - NEWS 1130 (http://www.news1130.com/2015/08/06/translink-introducing-one-zone-fare-on-buses/)

This looks like it's on busses only, not SkyTrain.

[yray]

:lawl:

you gotta be fucking me

[Tapioca]

Makes sense given that you can't install tap-out barriers on buses. Also, faster travel with air conditioning (e.g. Skytrain) should command a higher cost.

This is long overdue and consistent with other transit systems in the world.

[radioman]

inb4 someone says they will take the bus now to save money even though its a longer commute.

Then someone says time is money and they'll gladly pay higher costs for faster commute.

You know who you are :troll:

[melloman]

inb4 Translink makes announcement Compass Card will be abolished for a more up-to-date system. :troll:

[pastarocket]

This is TransLink's way of waving a white flag on the Compass Card. :lawl:

[Jmac]

This is TransLink's way of waving a white flag on the Compass Card. :lawl:
Wave the white flag? No, they'll get the government (read: taxpayers) to pour money into it.

[604STIG]

So what happens if you take the bus (and get a transfer) then need to take the train? You have to buy a new ticket or is the transfer still good? Sorry if stupid question but i'm not a frequent transit user.

[Traum]

It is the bandaid solution that TransLink should have turned to much earlier. And on a practical level, this is the best temporary solution they can use. Still, it isn't going to win them any friends even though bus riders are getting a cheaper deal. At this point, TransLink's name is already so tarnished that anything short of perfection is still going to earn them a lot of hate and contempt.

[meme405]

LOL.

I could only imagine if someone in the private sector utilized the translink method of operation.

"Yeah my multi-million dollar 10 Ton ore shovel stopped working, and I can't fix it, so I just gave the operator a pick axe and a hand shovel instead. Might slow down the process a bit, but whatever."

And then translink expects us to pay their CEO's and management as much as the private industry gets paid. Why the fuck would we when they suck a big fat dick.

Inb4 we have to pay them even more so they have incentive to do a good job.

[syee]

It is the bandaid solution that TransLink should have turned to much earlier. And on a practical level, this is the best temporary solution they can use.

100% agree with this. It's a good band aid solution that doesn't involve them throwing millions more into solving this problem like they have done already. Might as well take the millions you would have spent on fixing the Compass card issue towards increasing service to handle the possible increase in demand.

To be honest, I think the only real benefactors will probably be riders who have to travel 1-2 stops past the zone boundaries. Anything more than that would probably end up taking more time than it's worth.

[Alby]

Makes sense given that you can't install tap-out barriers on buses. Also, faster travel with air conditioning (e.g. Skytrain) should command a higher cost.

This is long overdue and consistent with other transit systems in the world.

unsure what you mean by that. the compass machines located at the front and rear doors can be used to tap in and out.

So what happens if you take the bus (and get a transfer) then need to take the train? You have to buy a new ticket or is the transfer still good? Sorry if stupid question but i'm not a frequent transit user.

if you are still within the zone, you shouldn't need to get a new ticket and the transfer you got is still good. zone rates still apply to the other modes. i would assume if you are going to switch over to skytrain and have to go into other zones than from where your transfer was issued, you would need to upgrade your fare.

from internal memo
There is no fare increase, as all customers will now pay the one-zone fare for all bus rides. For all other modes (e.g. West Coast Express, SeaBus, SkyTrain), the existing fare-zone rates will remain in effect, and tapping out will still be required to ensure the correct fare is charged.

memo also states that it will eventually become a distance-based fare structure

[Teriyaki]

Makes sense given that you can't install tap-out barriers on buses. Also, faster travel with air conditioning (e.g. Skytrain) should command a higher cost.

This is long overdue and consistent with other transit systems in the world.

You don't need a physical barrier. On a functional tap out system, the theory would be that you'd tap out so they can charge you only for the distance you travelled and not the entire route. This financial incentive would be the reason why people would tap out, not that the doors won't open.

[tonyzoomzoom]

Great. Now they've paid the contractor for a system that doesn't meet the original requirements (and prob even more $$ in trying to enhance the system to get it to work) AND we lose additional revenue in the process.

Translink FTW !

[godwin]

They installed it, however they didn't anticipate the low coverage of cell towers causing latency or failing to complete transaction at a lot of their stops.

unsure what you mean by that. the compass machines located at the front and rear doors can be used to tap in and out.

[ilovebacon]

Transit should have wifi

[blkgsr]

You don't need a physical barrier. On a functional tap out system, the theory would be that you'd tap out so they can charge you only for the distance you travelled and not the entire route. This financial incentive would be the reason why people would tap out, not that the doors won't open.

exactly how it's done in Perth Australia on both buses and their metro system, works great. you forgot to tap on the way out and you get the charged the max for the day. so you better make sure you tap off.

[yray]

Why not board in the back and exit through the front. That way, no one will board and tap out to sit down.

Oh wait, its too dumb for us to do that. :derp:

[godwin]

Why? when personal data plan is much cheaper on the taxpayer's wallet!

Transit should have wifi

[godwin]

I would say because of safety? so at least the bus driver can dissuade drunk or potentially disruptive people from boarding in the first place?

Once a disruptive person board the bus, the bus driver have to disrupt everyone else on the bus's life to get the person off the bus.

Or are you suggesting having 2 staff on every bus?

Why not board in the back and exit through the front. That way, no one will board and tap out to sit down.

Oh wait, its too dumb for us to do that. :derp:

[ImportPsycho]

inb4 someone says they will take the bus now to save money even though its a longer commute.



Checking how to bus from house near UBC to office in Richmond :accepted:

[Gh0stRider]

who actually pays for traveling through multiple zones?

[godwin]

Obviously not Gregor Robertson (http://www.canada.com/theprovince/story.html?id=fc5c49a8-232f-4c55-9fa1-8d7c734e2212)! :toot:

who actually pays for traveling through multiple zones?

[GoldenBoy]

It's not going to make much of a difference. Those who say they're going to ride the buses even though it's a longer commute to save money will eventually be riding the skytrain again. There's no way I'll be taking a 2 hour bus ride when it only takes me 45 minutes by bus and skytrain just to save a couple of bucks!

[4444]

This is long overdue and consistent with other transit systems in the world.

really? all the systems i've used charge by station (exact distance, you might say) - now that is the best idea. initial fixed cost and a variable cost.

going 1 stop is the same price as going 30 - that makes sense?

[yray]

I would say because of safety? so at least the bus driver can dissuade drunk or potentially disruptive people from boarding in the first place?

Once a disruptive person board the bus, the bus driver have to disrupt everyone else on the bus's life to get the person off the bus.

Or are you suggesting having 2 staff on every bus?

I thought drivers can't kick them off the bus anyways as per the union. They must stop the bus and call security/popo?

99 B line is rear entry too :Pbjt:

[melloman]

Wow, after watching the 6 o'clock news, this is just a gongshow and should be abolished.

tl;dr from CTV @ 6pm:
-Compass Cards start Oct. 5
-Machines will only dispense single tickets until late Oct, when passes will be dispensed.
-November, retail outlet dispense passes
-Busses ONLY have the single zone system, fares are at $2.75.
-Skytrain, WCE, and Seabus still have normal fares, you just have to tap in and tap out anyway. (No changes other then making you do extra work)

The highlights of the Q&A Press Conference were awesome though, Translink got asked 2 questions back-to-back:

Person: "So if buses are now technically cheaper, won't you lose revenue?"
Translink: "No we expect more people to get on buses and the revenue will balance itself out."
Other Person: "How will you deal with the increased ridership then on already packed buses?"
Translink: "Umm..." *no comment*

Was eating dinner and I just went:
http://cdn.meme.am/instances/59494367.jpg

[Mr.HappySilp]

How will the system calculate those who use both the bus and skytrain for their trip.

Say you take a bus to get to skytrain in Burnaby that count as 1 zone, then from skytrain to DT that's a 2 zone fare. Then form DT you take another bus to work so that's 1 zone on the bus.

Does that mean it will become a 3 zone fare trip instead of a 2 zone fare trip?

[SoNaRWaVe]

^ incorrect.

break your trip down. bus to skytrain in burnaby is a one zone fare, 2.75. when you hop on the skytrain, you tap to get in. then tap out in dt to exit. thats 2 zones. so the system will do an add fare for you. you now have a 2 zone ticket. you can take the bus in dt to work on that same 2 zone ticket. so your trip would have cost you $4.00

[SoNaRWaVe]

I thought drivers can't kick them off the bus anyways as per the union. They must stop the bus and call security/popo?

99 B line is rear entry too :Pbjt:
the bus driver primary role is to get the passengers from point A to point B in a safe and timely manner. it is not their role to enforce.

they can surely ask for the person to get off, but if the driver feels that it is unsafe to operate the bus with said person on the bus, they would need to call supervisor/transit security. no need to agitate the man further. who knows what might happen.

[Mr.HappySilp]

^ incorrect.

break your trip down. bus to skytrain in burnaby is a one zone fare, 2.75. when you hop on the skytrain, you tap to get in. then tap out in dt to exit. thats 2 zones. so the system will do an add fare for you. you now have a 2 zone ticket. you can take the bus in dt to work on that same 2 zone ticket. so your trip would have cost you $4.00

With how bad the compass is I doubt it will be this smart.

[SoNaRWaVe]

when it comes to grabbing money, it will be smart enough.

and its right on their website on how it works.

[falcon]

So what happens if you take the bus (and get a transfer) then need to take the train? You have to buy a new ticket or is the transfer still good? Sorry if stupid question but i'm not a frequent transit user.


Like many other cities in the world, including London, the bus system and the train system are separate.

I wish Translink would allow you to purchased tickets for the Skytrain with a destination stop listed and charge based on distance. And allow you to do it without the card.

In London I recall they had the card, but if you forgot to tap out they would charge the max zone fare. If you tapped out you paid the distance only from station to station. Seemed to work great and even with paper tickets there was never a line to get out. The mag stripe was int he middle of the card and you could insert it any direction into the turnstile.

[Razor Ramon HG]

In Korea, the bus and subway system are connected. You have a 30 minute grace period to hop off the subway to a bus and vice versa.

[SoNaRWaVe]

the goal is to get rid of zones and use a distance based system. but without data, that cannot happen. it would be years before they figure it out. thats why they want people to tap so they can analyze the data.

[Hehe]

They installed it, however they didn't anticipate the low coverage of cell towers causing latency or failing to complete transaction at a lot of their stops.

I don't get how this is even a problem if they were competent enough in the first place.

Just install a beacon at each stop so the machine has no problem recognizing the stops and bill correctly. As for relaying the user info back to server, since we are already spending hundred of millions on Compass, what is to install a few repeater that target specific dead zones. How many stops exactly has that little reception? I think to provide connection to point is much easier than omni-directional like cellphone.

Heck, a better idea would just wire every bus stop with copper/fiber and provide wi-fi to riders (wi-fi access with monthly pass anyone?) or share with private entities like Shaw... I'm sure they'd be interested.

[CRS]

I just think that hiring Cubic to implement the system was giant mistake. We should have given the contract out to a company that has a working system in metropolis cities like Hong Kong, London, or Seoul.

[nabs]

^^^^
That's not how it works. Companies don't just 'give out' contracts on a publicly funded project.

[CRS]

^^^^
That's not how it works. Companies don't just 'give out' contracts on a publicly funded project.

Bids are submitted and translink chooses which company receives the contract.

Or is this not how it is?

[tonyzoomzoom]

You can bet that political contributions were made and subsequent pressure put on Translink to choose the "right" contractor.

[prolepsis]

Still have a bunch of FareSaver tickets. On TransLink's site, under the Compass Card FAQs, they mention that you'll be able to continue using them for a limited time (during the transition), and that they'll advise when the cutoff date is.

I'm assuming that if people have leftover FareSaver tickets after the cutoff date, these become useless. That is, you can't turn them in and get a credit added to your Compass Card.

[twitchyzero]

Still have a bunch of FareSaver tickets. On TransLink's site, under the Compass Card FAQs, they mention that you'll be able to continue using them for a limited time (during the transition), and that they'll advise when the cutoff date is.

I'm assuming that if people have leftover FareSaver tickets after the cutoff date, these become useless. That is, you can't turn them in and get a credit added to your Compass Card.

early 2016

[godwin]

Problem is Translink doesn't own the land they operate on.. they can't just get Telus or Shaw to install things on land they don't own now can they?

We won't have the conversation about transit tax etc if Translink owns their own land and allowed to develop them.

The problem is they want milliseconds in response, which even most wireless credit card terminal can't do right now.

At least Vancouver decided to roll out the system vs Calgary which is more of a gong show. (http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/calgary-transit-cancels-connect-card-vows-legal-action-to-recover-money)

I don't get how this is even a problem if they were competent enough in the first place.

Just install a beacon at each stop so the machine has no problem recognizing the stops and bill correctly. As for relaying the user info back to server, since we are already spending hundred of millions on Compass, what is to install a few repeater that target specific dead zones. How many stops exactly has that little reception? I think to provide connection to point is much easier than omni-directional like cellphone.

Heck, a better idea would just wire every bus stop with copper/fiber and provide wi-fi to riders (wi-fi access with monthly pass anyone?) or share with private entities like Shaw... I'm sure they'd be interested.

[nabs]

Bids are submitted and translink chooses which company receives the contract.

Or is this not how it is?

That is not how it is

[AstulzerRZD]

I just think that hiring Cubic to implement the system was giant mistake. We should have given the contract out to a company that has a working system in metropolis cities like Hong Kong, London, or Seoul.

Cubic does in fact run the system in London, and there are some issues with tapping out there as well

Compass Card systems causing problems in other cities | CTV Vancouver News (http://bc.ctvnews.ca/compass-card-systems-causing-problems-in-other-cities-1.1841284)

I know that Ottawa recently adopted Presto card, which is used in Toronto. They system involves tapping out as well, and from what I've heard, there aren't any complaints.

[CRS]

That is not how it is

Alright, care to explain how it is then?

[CRS]

Cubic does in fact run the system in London, and there are some issues with tapping out there as well

Compass Card systems causing problems in other cities | CTV Vancouver News (http://bc.ctvnews.ca/compass-card-systems-causing-problems-in-other-cities-1.1841284)

I know that Ottawa recently adopted Presto card, which is used in Toronto. They system involves tapping out as well, and from what I've heard, there aren't any complaints.

Interesting. I didn't know that!

Thank you for sharing!

[ZN6]

the goal is to get rid of zones and use a distance based system. but without data, that cannot happen. it would be years before they figure it out. thats why they want people to tap so they can analyze the data.

The thing is, it has been years since the roll out of the beta testing. I remember when they said the compass cards were ready to sell at London drugs like February 2013. LD said, nope, not ready. Translink SHOULD have more than enough data to track all the beta testers that had been in the compass program over two years. How fucking long do they need? it's going on to 3 years since it was supposed to be launched. Do they need like 10 years to get this thing working? It's starting to feel like duke nukem forever. Sure, it came but it was a heaping pile of shit. Without some deep deductive brainpower to be tapped, the compass card is heading in the same direction, albeit much more costly pile of shit.

Even then, they should have analysts that should be able to figure out the pricing from destination to destination. I have a hard time believing that they can't do this given the simplicity of our transit system is versus something like Tokyo's. Their system is FAR superior. Buy a ticket and pay the amount on the zone where you intend to stop, the computer measure where you start from, then you put the ticket back in when you exit the station. if you didn't pay enough the gates close and you pay the attendant. If you are attentive enough to know where your destination and you paid enough you're on your merry way. Some how they can integrate the fare with a tappable card. hmm....

Have a suika card? Ok, tap it, it measures where you start, and when you leave the station, beep out and it will deduct the amount from your balance.

I think it all comes down to being fucking lazy. People in greater Vancouver just don't want to inconvenience themselves by pulling out their wallets for 2 seconds. Well, if they beep once then forget to beep out, the next time they beep they should just deduct the maximum amount of zones they transferred; like 15 bucks or something, that will reinforce people to beep out.

Same thing happens when you park in a parkade. Lose your ticket? well pay the full amount, fuckers.

Motivation hits the hardest when it's in the wallet.

[sonick]

Perhaps kind of a tin-foil-hat idea here... What if the transit plebiscite was primarily just a way for Translink to get the funds to dig themselves out of the Compass disaster? And what you are looking at here is their plan B...

[SoNaRWaVe]

The thing is, it has been years since the roll out of the beta testing. I remember when they said the compass cards were ready to sell at London drugs like February 2013. LD said, nope, not ready. Translink SHOULD have more than enough data to track all the beta testers that had been in the compass program over two years. How fucking long do they need? it's going on to 3 years since it was supposed to be launched. Do they need like 10 years to get this thing working? It's starting to feel like duke nukem forever. Sure, it came but it was a heaping pile of shit. Without some deep deductive brainpower to be tapped, the compass card is heading in the same direction, albeit much more costly pile of shit.

Even then, they should have analysts that should be able to figure out the pricing from destination to destination. I have a hard time believing that they can't do this given the simplicity of our transit system is versus something like Tokyo's. Their system is FAR superior. Buy a ticket and pay the amount on the zone where you intend to stop, the computer measure where you start from, then you put the ticket back in when you exit the station. if you didn't pay enough the gates close and you pay the attendant. If you are attentive enough to know where your destination and you paid enough you're on your merry way. Some how they can integrate the fare with a tappable card. hmm....

Have a suika card? Ok, tap it, it measures where you start, and when you leave the station, beep out and it will deduct the amount from your balance.

I think it all comes down to being fucking lazy. People in greater Vancouver just don't want to inconvenience themselves by pulling out their wallets for 2 seconds. Well, if they beep once then forget to beep out, the next time they beep they should just deduct the maximum amount of zones they transferred; like 15 bucks or something, that will reinforce people to beep out.

Same thing happens when you park in a parkade. Lose your ticket? well pay the full amount, fuckers.

Motivation hits the hardest when it's in the wallet.

Problem is with beta testing, is that it is probably just for beta testing. I doubt they look at the beta testers and call it a good enough sample for the entire network of users to determine what the correct distance base system would be. Right now, at least they can say that over 90% of users only use transit for one zone.

What is the correct number to determine the distance base system? I think that is a hard number to agree on. Because most users only travel the system on one zone, do they determine calculation base on a one zone fare? Then how do you measure going two zones? Now that the add fare is 1.25 more (for a two zone), how do you measure "two zones" based on distance and how do you implement that into pricing of the distance base system?

Surely its a number they don't want lower than what they make now, but not so high so that there will be another outcry. People think that with distance based system, the fare should be cheaper. Yet they obviously still need to break even/profit from the number they use.

The whole forgetting the tap out part is non-excusable. It is said many times that the user will be charged the full 3 zones at the moment. But what is the full "3 zone" fare when distance base comes?

Not that I am siding with Translink here, but there is much more data that needs to be analyzed and much more work needed than what meets the eye. What works for London may not work for here.

I also think that there might be another one or two more systems other than London that Cubic have worked on.

[Alby]

Problem is with beta testing, is that it is probably just for beta testing. I doubt they look at the beta testers and call it a good enough sample for the entire network of users to determine what the correct distance base system would be. Right now, at least they can say that over 90% of users only use transit for one zone.

What is the correct number to determine the distance base system? I think that is a hard number to agree on. Because most users only travel the system on one zone, do they determine calculation base on a one zone fare? Then how do you measure going two zones? Now that the add fare is 1.25 more (for a two zone), how do you measure "two zones" based on distance and how do you implement that into pricing of the distance base system?

Surely its a number they don't want lower than what they make now, but not so high so that there will be another outcry. People think that with distance based system, the fare should be cheaper. Yet they obviously still need to break even/profit from the number they use.

The whole forgetting the tap out part is non-excusable. It is said many times that the user will be charged the full 3 zones at the moment. But what is the full "3 zone" fare when distance base comes?

Not that I am siding with Translink here, but there is much more data that needs to be analyzed and much more work needed than what meets the eye. What works for London may not work for here.

I also think that there might be another one or two more systems other than London that Cubic have worked on.

uh wtf? there will be no "zones" when the distance structured fare comes into play.

[quasi]

Alright, care to explain how it is then?

Curious as well, I've bid on Translink contracts before and it's exactly how you described it, no different then any other project really. Once they decide where the money is going to come from they push forward with the project and put it out for tender. It could be different with the fair system I've only been involved with construction but I'm curious how they decided who to go with as well.

[SoNaRWaVe]

uh wtf? there will be no "zones" when the distance structured fare comes into play.

the zones are in quotes for a reason. they need to take in consideration what the current zone fare is and how that will translate into the distance based system for fare payment.

and its in response to zn6 "charge full zones". how do you put a price on a "full zone" charge based on distance? if the current 3 zones is $5.00, then will the "full zone" charge be $5.00 for the full distance charge?

get it?

[Mr.HappySilp]

What I wanted to know when will I be able to purchase compass when Oct comes. Just having 15 London Drugs isn't good enough.http://www.translink.ca/en/Fares-and-Passes/Compass-Card/Compass-Timeline.aspx
when they say vending machine do they mean the vending machines at different skytrain station that spits out tickets will now or will there be new vending machines if so where?
We can purchase the compass online but how long will it take before it will mail out to us? 4 to 6 weeks? Do we pay online every month or we do we go to those vending machines to or pay at a vendor?

[CRS]

Curious as well, I've bid on Translink contracts before and it's exactly how you described it, no different then any other project really. Once they decide where the money is going to come from they push forward with the project and put it out for tender. It could be different with the fair system I've only been involved with construction but I'm curious how they decided who to go with as well.

nabs...

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/55494893.jpg

[SoNaRWaVe]

What I wanted to know when will I be able to purchase compass when Oct comes. Just having 15 London Drugs isn't good enough.http://www.translink.ca/en/Fares-and-Passes/Compass-Card/Compass-Timeline.aspx
when they say vending machine do they mean the vending machines at different skytrain station that spits out tickets will now or will there be new vending machines if so where?
We can purchase the compass online but how long will it take before it will mail out to us? 4 to 6 weeks? Do we pay online every month or we do we go to those vending machines to or pay at a vendor?

the current (old) skytrain vending machines do not spit out any compass related products. there are new vending machines (now called compass vending machines) that spit out compass tickets (single use). the old machines will be replaced by newer machines. there are also new compass vending machines that will spit out compass cards (starting november).

in terms of buying online, i do not know how it gets delivered. it makes more sense to just drop by a skytrain station or stadium station to just buy the card. you can use the machines or online to load up the card whenever you want. i am assuming now that you can also sign up for a monthly top up option. in terms of vendor, i am also assuming you can load up at stadium station where there is an office there.

[Jmac]

I just think that hiring Cubic to implement the system was giant mistake. We should have given the contract out to a company that has a working system in metropolis cities like Hong Kong, London, or Seoul.

^^^^
That's not how it works. Companies don't just 'give out' contracts on a publicly funded project.

Bids are submitted and translink chooses which company receives the contract.

Or is this not how it is?

That is not how it is

nabs...

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/55494893.jpg
nabs is correct, from my understanding as a public sector employee who has been involved in quite a few projects. I'd love to elaborate more, but I'm not sure what I'm at liberty to say on a public forum.

[Mike Oxbig]

they probably doing this because people are using zone 1 tickets from east van commuting to richmond :LOL:

[keifun]

^same with people taking busses like #19 from Vancouver to metrotown. I doubt they check fares once the bus crosses Boundary Rd.