[stewie]

Lately I've been noticing a LOT of riders doing this.

I know its illegal and extremely stupid to do, yet time after time, I see it happening. A few days ago I was at a red light at Canada way and Kensington and right as the light turned green a guy on his bike ripped beside me and a bus with his girlfriend on the back doing at least 60k+ while the rest of traffic was maybe just getting up to 10k. Seen him 2 or 3 times in that general area doing it, and again today, on Boundary road near Kingsway, traffic is going slow to the point where its at a dead stop going north bound, and again, douche bag just rides between the two lanes at a speed where if I was watching him from behind me as he passes me, I'd have to snap my neck to keep my eyes on him.

You could send pictures of people texting/on the phone while driving, but what about dash cam videos of things like this? I'd rather see someone like this get busted before someone on a phone does

[sho_bc]

You can contact the police of jurisdiction and provide the licence plate and dash cam footage if you have it. Even if no one is able to respond right away, they'd hopefully at least talk to the rider and, if there are multiple complaints and/or video of it, they may be able to issue a ticket/set up and wait for him/her.

[smoothie.]

every cyclist splits on the right. fuck it.

[dn53]

I dont make the laws in bc but I strongly believe lane filtering (cutting into the front at a red) and splitting on the right side in stand still traffic at a SAFE speed of a maximum of 30kmph should be allowed. Bikes are able to avoid being rear ended and they are speeding up traffic since they accelerate much quicker from a stop.

When I see people lane splitting at 50kmph+ it's pretty ridiculous.. I hope these people don't ruin it for everyone.

Sorry, little off topic

[stewie]

Splitting on the far right lane is one thing as you've somewhat of a buffer zone between you and the sidewalk/shoulder, but splitting between two vehicles is just flat out stupid...you've no escape route. My mirrors stick out quite a ways and if I were to be beside another truck with wide mirrors, they'll either rip them off and give themselves a well deserved headache, or they'll be crouching as low as they can go, if they can make it that low that fast, if not, I'm not budging over an inch. Id be more inclined to move closer than to move further.

If theres any "you'd do the same if you could" talk, I can say right now, I have a bike, and I wont do it for safety reasons. Theres a lot of shitty drivers out there who I wouldn't trust holding a glass of water.

[BoostedBB6]

Lane filtering IS done for safety.
When done properly, slow speeds, it is safer for the rider to filter than sit in stop and go traffic as rear end accidents a common for motorcyclists.

There is nothing unsafe about filtering, but doing 60k through cars is just idiotic. I agree 100% with DN53

[zulutango]

Lane filtering IS done for safety.
When done properly, slow speeds, it is safer for the rider to filter than sit in stop and go traffic as rear end accidents a common for motorcyclists.

There is nothing unsafe about filtering, but doing 60k through cars is just idiotic. I agree 100% with DN53



Based on my previous career as an investigator of thousands of crashes, a Motor Cop, a rider with some 53 years experience and my current career as a riding/driving instructor and BC Supreme Court expert witness on motorcycle safety and riding techniques....I disagree 100%!

Chosing to ride withing a couple of inches of a vehicle whose driver does not expect you to be there is an unacceptable risk. I used to train Police riders to filter thru during extreme emergency situations but that was dropped as an unacceptable risk. It's bad enough being in a car with sheet metal, crush zones and airbags to protect you, when drivers wander in lanes, change lanes without looking or signaling, put on makeup, text, eat food, talk on cell phones (both kinds), talk with pasasengers, try to find an address...yadda yadda yadda...BUT on a bike you have none of those protective devices...just your skin and bones.

As far as rear end crashes go...pay attention while you are stopped in traffic. Don't choose to sit 2 feet off the bumper ahead of you...wait about 4 car lengths back and then move slowly ahead as traffic arrives behind you. USE your mirrors..see someone coming up fast behind and you will have enough space to move put of their way. Less than 5% of crashes are rear enders...worry about the turning vehicle in front of you...about 2/3 of them cause the crashes. Car drivers will kill you...stay as far away as possible and do not volunteer to trust them with yoiur safety by getting up close and personal when you have another option .

[Raid3n]

in most cases that the majority of people would filter would be in gridlocked traffic or traffic travelling <30kph. i think at that speed the risk is greatly reduced, provided you aren't doing 60k your self.

[BoostedBB6]

Based on my previous career as an investigator of thousands of crashes, a Motor Cop, a rider with some 53 years experience and my current career as a riding/driving instructor and BC Supreme Court expert witness on motorcycle safety and riding techniques....I disagree 100%!

Chosing to ride withing a couple of inches of a vehicle whose driver does not expect you to be there is an unacceptable risk. I used to train Police riders to filter thru during extreme emergency situations but that was dropped as an unacceptable risk. It's bad enough being in a car with sheet metal, crush zones and airbags to protect you, when drivers wander in lanes, change lanes without looking or signaling, put on makeup, text, eat food, talk on cell phones (both kinds), talk with pasasengers, try to find an address...yadda yadda yadda...BUT on a bike you have none of those protective devices...just your skin and bones.

As far as rear end crashes go...pay attention while you are stopped in traffic. Don't choose to sit 2 feet off the bumper ahead of you...wait about 4 car lengths back and then move slowly ahead as traffic arrives behind you. USE your mirrors..see someone coming up fast behind and you will have enough space to move put of their way. Less than 5% of crashes are rear enders...worry about the turning vehicle in front of you...about 2/3 of them cause the crashes. Car drivers will kill you...stay as far away as possible and do not volunteer to trust them with yoiur safety by getting up close and personal when you have another option .

You may disagree but there are MANY studies that will confirm what I have said.

Legal lane filtering (moving forward through stationary or very slow moving traffic at a slow (safe) speed it results in far fewer motorcycle related incidence.
Give your profession, you see the people who are the accidents more than you would the ones who are not. Also, where we are, people are not accustom to this practice so they are not expecting vehicles to pass them like this. That is one of the reasons why it may not be the safest practice here, however the concept and practice in other places in this world work t improve rider safety when done properly.

In Vancouver, I have seen it done and many times at high rates of speed in places that its just plane stupid.

[sho_bc]

Having lived in a place (Thailand) where the motorcycles essentially rule the road and lane-splitting at reds is commonplace and you get looked at funny if you don't do it, I know that it can work. The issue is the LMD (and I would guess most of North America) and the drivers that learn to drive here and only know how to drive here.

It worked perfectly there because everyone knew that thats what happened and did it themselves, so they knew to be cognizant of the motorcycles. It will likely never truly work here because there are too many bad drivers who never look outside the bubble of whats right in front of their faces. They have a hard enough time not colliding with other cars at a standstill, let alone motorcycles filtering up to the front of the line.

[Raid3n]

that's the thing though.
yes we are not used to it, so it will be a culture shock, but how else to change than to be exposed to the factor that initiates the change..

you fail 100% of the things you don't attempt.

[320icar]

If they wanted to pass a law about lane filtering, there would have to be a massive campaign of knowledge going on too. News segments, in the 24/metro news, radio commercials, everything!

As a rider, the only time I would be tempted to lane split is riding the hard shoulder in grid lock highway traffic in 30+ degree weather. I have not done it yet, but I would be damn tempted. Other vehicles on the road will still flip out, get angry, honk etc because you are "cheating". But you are in a full leather body suit in direct sunlight sitting on top of an engine. Non-riders will never understand how temping that 15km/h breeze is unless they have been in that situation

[stewie]

I remember seeing this episode one day before I had left for work.

T.V show - Don't drive here

He's in Thailand and they're on moped/motorcycles. At one point he says "No wonder somebody dies more than once an hour in this country on a motorcycle". Sure enough, few seconds later in the clip, he gets a minor fender bender.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxT3Ja0XuAI


If they wanted to pass a law about lane filtering, there would have to be a massive campaign of knowledge going on too. News segments, in the 24/metro news, radio commercials, everything!

As a rider, the only time I would be tempted to lane split is riding the hard shoulder in grid lock highway traffic in 30+ degree weather. I have not done it yet, but I would be damn tempted. Other vehicles on the road will still flip out, get angry, honk etc because you are "cheating". But you are in a full leather body suit in direct sunlight sitting on top of an engine. Non-riders will never understand how temping that 15km/h breeze is unless they have been in that situation

I know exactly what you mean about getting that 15km/h breeze and how helpful it can be while sitting on a hot bike in 30 deg weather. I know its tempting, but I still wouldn't do it. I chose to ride the bike, I'll take the traffic that comes with it. The people that do split lanes here, I think of them no differently than the young self entitled brats in Vancouver, "I can fit between cars at a red light and I will. I'll get to the front faster than you sucker!!! I've a bike, you've a car, I win!"

[underscore]

When bikes are filtering through stopped traffic, what do you do when the traffic starts moving again? Now you've got 1 too many vehicles wide on the road and you're surrounded by lots of people who may not know you're there. If you split on the far right you give yourself a buffer but you're at the mercy of anyone who may pull out to the right for whatever reason.

BB6 I'd like to see some of those studies, no offense but knowing Zulu's experiences I'm going to take his statements over someone elses.

Having lived in a place (Thailand) where the motorcycles essentially rule the road and lane-splitting at reds is commonplace and you get looked at funny if you don't do it, I know that it can work. The issue is the LMD (and I would guess most of North America) and the drivers that learn to drive here and only know how to drive here.

It worked perfectly there because everyone knew that thats what happened and did it themselves, so they knew to be cognizant of the motorcycles. It will likely never truly work here because there are too many bad drivers who never look outside the bubble of whats right in front of their faces. They have a hard enough time not colliding with other cars at a standstill, let alone motorcycles filtering up to the front of the line.

Thailand isn't exactly a mecca of road safety so I wouldn't be looking there for any kind of useful advice.

[corollagtSr5]

Lane splitting by motorcycles is not illegal in California when done in a safe and prudent manner. Motorists should not take it upon themselves to discourage motorcyclists from lane splitting. Intentionally blocking or impeding a motorcyclist in a way that could cause harm to the rider is illegal (CVC 22400).

Here's somewhere with similar driving laws.
http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/transportation/article3210060.ece/binary/California%20Lane%20Splitting%20Crash%20Analysis.p df

[stewie]

^ It's not illegal in California, but here's a video and in the title it says "This is in California where lane splitting is legal."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GH8D2EqDZs&feature=iv&src_vid=KLhCRAS9aVs&annotation_id=annotation_511864755

then there's this guys video, I've yet to search up the stats that hes talking about, but I'll be looking into it later on tonight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLhCRAS9aVs


Like everyone I know who doesn't ride tells me - "its not if you'll crash, its when you'll crash".

Or as the nurse I seeing on and off years ago told me - "oooh you ride a bike???? they're nice, and thank you for being an organ donar."

I may put up a rant about this, but in the end, its illegal here, and if anyone wants to lane split and ends up with a serious injury...they wont get a single drop of sympathy from me.

[corollagtSr5]

They were mentioning Thailand so I used California where they have similar laws where it's legal. Anyways, that motorcycle is going pretty fast. Also that vehicle switched lanes on a solid line, which is illegal. That link I posted is statistics in California. The idea is to reduce rider damage from being rear ended as well as reduce traffic congestion as you are a faster vehicles. It's illegal here so you shouldn't be doing it.

"Proponents of lane splitting state the Hurt Report of 1981 reached the conclusion that lane splitting improves motorcycle safety by reducing rear end crashes.[21] Lane splitting supporters also state that the US DOT FARS database shows that fatalities from rear end collisions into motorcycles are 30% lower in California than in Florida or Texas, states with similar riding seasons and populations but which do not lane split."

[sho_bc]

Thailand isn't exactly a mecca of road safety so I wouldn't be looking there for any kind of useful advice.

The city I lived in was small enough that the number of collisions due to lane splitting was low. Then again, people actually drove in a manner that made sense there, too. The larger, urban centres were a different story. You'd have never caught me riding in Bangkok. This was also 16 years ago as well, so things have changed a bit.

[stewie]

They were mentioning Thailand so I used California where they have similar laws where it's legal. Anyways, that motorcycle is going pretty fast. Also that vehicle switched lanes on a solid line, which is illegal. That link I posted is statistics in California. The idea is to reduce rider damage from being rear ended as well as reduce traffic congestion as you are a faster vehicles. It's illegal here so you shouldn't be doing it.

"Proponents of lane splitting state the Hurt Report of 1981 reached the conclusion that lane splitting improves motorcycle safety by reducing rear end crashes.[21] Lane splitting supporters also state that the US DOT FARS database shows that fatalities from rear end collisions into motorcycles are 30% lower in California than in Florida or Texas, states with similar riding seasons and populations but which do not lane split."

yup, illegal to switch lanes on a solid line, but if you take hwy 1 and look at the hov lane, its only dotted close to exits/on ramps, but that doesn't stop thousands of people a day from jumping in and out of that lane. Especially if its rush hour and their in the hov lane to carpool, traffic is less than desirable and they need to get out of the hov lane soon. They don't wait till the last second to leave when the lane breaks into dotted lines, they get out when they find a gap that they can squeeze into.

Anyways, I'm not going to drag this on, I said what I wanted to say about how I've been noticing it happening lately and how unsafe the riders are when they do it and since its illegal, was their anything that can be done about it.

[BoostedBB6]

When bikes are filtering through stopped traffic, what do you do when the traffic starts moving again? Now you've got 1 too many vehicles wide on the road and you're surrounded by lots of people who may not know you're there. If you split on the far right you give yourself a buffer but you're at the mercy of anyone who may pull out to the right for whatever reason.

BB6 I'd like to see some of those studies, no offense but knowing Zulu's experiences I'm going to take his statements over someone elses.



Thailand isn't exactly a mecca of road safety so I wouldn't be looking there for any kind of useful advice.

As fun as it would be to spend a considerable amount of time finding these studies. The easier and perhaps more real world look at this is to take a look at well developed countries that allow this practice (done in a safe manner, not huge speed wiping between cars). The UK for example, they implemented this system and saw a drastic decline in traffic fatalities because of it.
California is in the process of making this practice legal because it is SAFER for road users.

But for a quick example.
UC Berkeley Study Finds Lane-Splitting Is Safe If You're Smart (http://lanesplitter.jalopnik.com/uc-berkeley-study-finds-lane-splitting-reduces-motorcyc-1708755125)

Lane Splitting (http://americanmotorcyclist.com/rights/positionstatements/lanesplitting.aspx)

http://lanesplittingislegal.com/assets/studies-surveys/lane-splitting-safety-california_may-29-2015.pdf

I say again, the reason why Zulu has seen a less than stellar result from this is because no one here is expecting this. It is not a common practice and no one is educated on it, resulting in idiots on bikes doing high speeds between vehicles not expecting to be passed in the manner. When done to ease congestion and improve safety (passing in safe areas at slow speeds in near stationary or stationary traffic, its proven time and time again that it is a safe practice and improves road safety).

[BoostedBB6]

Also worth sharing.

Lane Splitting Resources & Links - Lane Splitting is Legal in California (http://lanesplittingislegal.com/resources-links)

Here is a collection of studies pertaining to legal lane filtering in California. This would be the best comparison to a city like Vancouver and most if not all results would be the same as found in these studies.

[wing_woo]

When I was driving in California, I was surprised the first time a motorcycle raced past me on the interstate. I soon realized it was legal and whenever I merge or change lanes, I'd look to make sure there wasn't a motorcycle coming up my side before making the move.

For me, I personally don't mind a motorcycle coming up from behind when I'm stopped at a light and getting in front of me. I'd rather not be holding him back by having him behind me. If he moves in front of me when we're stopped, I'm fine with that as he won't be in my way and I won't be in his way.

I do think though that given how oblivious to everything around them that some drivers here are, I'd say the motorcyclists are taking chances whenever they do that though.

[Raid3n]

^ Lane splitting in CA is only legal at speeds below 35mph.

so if you were doing hwy speed and a bike blasted past you between lanes, definitely illegal.

[BoostedBB6]

CHP states when and how its legal in Cali.

"From the CHP Guidelines:

Lane splitting by motorcycles is not illegal in California when done in a safe and prudent manner.
Motorists should not take it upon themselves to discourage motorcyclists from lane splitting.
Intentionally blocking or impeding a motorcyclist in a way that could cause harm to the rider is illegal (CVC 22400).
Opening a vehicle door to impede a motorcycle is illegal (CVC 22517).
Never drive while distracted.
You can help keep motorcyclists and all road users safe by:
Checking mirrors and blind spots, especially before changing lanes or turning
Signaling your intentions before changing lanes or merging with traffic.
Allowing more following distance, three or four seconds, when behind a motorcycle so the motorcyclist has enough time to maneuver or stop in an emergency"

When done PROPERLY it is something that will cut down congestion and improve rider safety. Sadly, there are a LOT of idiots on bikes that don't follow the rules.

[Jas29]

Usually only lane split on 91 before the 72nd lights only person that has tried to stop me is a trucker and I just went around him on the other side. I have passed police cars and none of them seemed to care but I'm not flying down the shoulder either

[Inaii]

I had one of my friends message me bitching about a bike lane splitting and then proceed to tell me that if she saw it again she would swing her front end in front of them as they were going past. She didn't really like the response I gave her. I believe the words cunt and retard were used.

I have no problem with lane splitting, as long as it's done safely. However when you pop out of nowhere and race up the shoulder when I'm turning right and have had my signal on for a while (I'm extra cautious in the work truck because I can only use my mirrors, I can't shoulder check on my right and can barely do it on my left), and then proceed to try to chastise me for getting in YOUR way, we're gonna have a problem. Personally, I feel more comfortable having a motorcycle in front of me than behind me in traffic. A lot of the bikes I run into have a habit of sitting dead centre behind me, where I can't see them, and they essentially disappear. I had a harley do it to me last week, only reason I knew he was back there was because the car behind him was an abnormally far distance away.

[bananana]

66% of motorcycle related accidents caused by drivers. The most common of these is rear-ender.

Source: Professor Harry Hurt. "HURT Report." (1981) University of South Carolina.

California vs Florida. Deaths caused by rear-enders are 30% higher in places without filtering/lane splitting.

Source: NHTSA. "Fatality Analysis Reporting System." Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS) | National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) (http://www.nhtsa.gov/FARS)


"The observed injuries among the motorcyclists were significantly different between LSM [Lane Splitting Motorcyclists] and other motorcyclists (Table 12). LSM were markedly less likely to suffer head injury (9% vs 17%), torso injury (19% vs 29%), or fatal injury (1.2% vs 3.0%) than non-lane-splitting motorcyclists."

Source: Thomas Rice, PhD; Lara Troszak, MA; Taryn Erhardt. (May 29, 2015) "Motorcycle Lane-splitting and Safety in California". Safe Transportation Research & Education Center. University of California Berkeley

Also remember that almost everywhere in the world it is allowed. It is only not allowed in Canada/North America (Minus California). Motorcycles are a vastly more efficient form of transportation and massively reduce congestion but only when we are allowed to fill in spaces that are otherwise unused. A study done in Belgium stated that if 10% of the population were on motorcycles and allowed to filter, we could completely eliminate all traffic jams (40% reduction in traffic).

We sit higher than most cars and have a better view than you might think. Paying attention is how we survive. We don't sit in plush chairs nor do we have the luxuries of air conditioning and cupholders. Some of us still ride air-cooled bikes which will overheat in traffic.

Extra: A little overproduced but a informational video by my buddies over at RideApart.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNGD9AAIfFU

[underscore]

66% of motorcycle related accidents caused by drivers. The most common of these is rear-ender.

Source: Professor Harry Hurt. "HURT Report." (1981) University of South Carolina.

Where are you reading that? From wikipedia List of findings in the Hurt Report (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_findings_in_the_Hurt_Report)

9. The most frequent accident configuration is the motorcycle proceeding straight then the automobile makes a left turn in front of the oncoming motorcycle.

17. The typical motorcycle pre-crash lines-of-sight to the traffic hazard portray no contribution of the limits of peripheral vision; more than three fourths of all accident hazards are within 45° of either side of straight ahead.

Reading the rest of the findings the rider seems to play a significant factor in accidents as well. Not so much direct responsibility, but in the ability to avoid putting themselves in unsafe situations or in their ability to avoid an accident.

I also have to question any claims that something is being pushed to improve rider safety when 75+% of the riders I see are only wearing a helmet, with no other safety gear (yes I actually kept loose track of this for a while) and a lot of those aren't even proper helmets. I'm sure at least some of the people pushing for this wear AGTATT, but I have a feeling quite a few of them don't.

[stewie]

We sit higher than most cars and have a better view than you might think. Paying attention is how we survive. We don't sit in plush chairs nor do we have the luxuries of air conditioning and cupholders. Some of us still ride air-cooled bikes which will overheat in traffic.


boo fucking hoo

If my bike is to overheat and breakdown then so be it. It's just a bike, bikes can be replaced, you can't. If you're that scared of being rear ended then try braking 30 ft behind the car in front of you and when there's a few cars behind you have come to a complete stop...move your way forward. It's that simple.

Again, we bought bikes on our own free will, you're MORE than aware that there's no AC or cup holders or a lavish seat enclosed by your car with airbags.

We've accepted the risks that go with a motorcycle upon getting a license and if you think splitting here is safe...then go right ahead, but when you get hit don't go crying your eyes out to ICBC or on this forum. If you're splitting you've lost all sympathy from me for your outcome and I'm guessing more than half of the people on the road who witness it wont care either.

[320icar]

Someone pissed in this cunts cereal this morning ^^

[stewie]

Someone pissed in this cunts cereal this morning ^^

Not quite. This cunt is just tired of seeing people lane splitting and getting in accidents due to it then whining. There's MANY preventative measures you can take to stay safe. Lane splitting to me is far from it, instead puts you at more risk here. But go for it, lane split, I'm not your mother so you all can make big boy/girl decisions on your own. Many drivers here are horrible here and this topic will never end in a mutual agreement.

Thank you for noticing I'm a cunt though! This cunt is having a great day so far! :)

But thank you for noticing I'm a cunt :) i

[604STIG]

Not quite. This cunt is just tired of seeing people lane splitting and getting in accidents due to it then whining. i

Just wondering where you are seeing all the "whining" from these people that you say are splitting and crashing? I'm always on the bike sub-forum here and used to be heavily active on our local bike forum but can't recall a single instance of anyone ever complaining about lane splitting and then getting into an accident?

And i'm not trying to "call you out" on this, i am genuinely curious if there is a lot of this type of complaining going on somewhere.

[cdizzle_996]

Only whining in reading is the guy who made the thread.

People who split lanes dangerously, do so at their own risk.

End of story.

BRB: Going to make a thread about how I'm cut off by cagers every single day because they're too lazy to turn their fucking head before they switch lanes.

[stewie]

Just wondering where you are seeing all the "whining" from these people that you say are splitting and crashing? I'm always on the bike sub-forum here and used to be heavily active on our local bike forum but can't recall a single instance of anyone ever complaining about lane splitting and then getting into an accident?

And i'm not trying to "call you out" on this, i am genuinely curious if there is a lot of this type of complaining going on somewhere.

Don't worry if you call me out, it won't be taken personally :)
The complaining I see on regular basis from both bikes and cars is at my work on construction sites. Although I'm in an office now, I used to be on sites in the middle of a street/intersection in an open hole anywhere from 3 - 15 ft deep. We've dump trucks going in and out and you'd be surprised at the things people will do... Even with lanes shut down and having flag people in the road you'll still see occasional splitters and dumb drivers. I've witnessed cars drop their passenger side front end into a hole while I was still in it...with the lane beside us closed off yet they're oblivious and put not only their lives at risk, but mine as well. At my work there's tons of complaining about it and every time we see something happen it would make us furious. Split to the right of a dump truck and I bet they won't see you. Even when my mirrors are set right and I'm beside another vehicle the last thing you expect to see and notice is a tiny little bike squeezing through. I complain with first hand experience seeing it as completey unsafe here. I really don't care what some professor has to say in his statistics about how it's safer.

Only whining in reading is the guy who made the thread.

People who split lanes dangerously, do so at their own risk.

End of story.

BRB: Going to make a thread about how I'm cut off by cagers every single day because they're too lazy to turn their fucking head before they switch lanes.

Yeah. They do it at their own risk dangerously or not, and when they're hit, go see if they do it again.

Whining - welcome to the Internet.

[Rallydrv]

the problem is, they dont teach cagers about line splitting, and they dont understand the concept.(at no fault of their own)

In Vancouver, when half people turn on a whimp, no blind spot check ,without indicating, or just to get ahead of that one car (open lane) at a stop light, lane splitting wont work. and is bound to cause accidents.

[bananana]

I also have to question any claims that something is being pushed to improve rider safety when 75+% of the riders I see are only wearing a helmet, with no other safety gear (yes I actually kept loose track of this for a while) and a lot of those aren't even proper helmets. I'm sure at least some of the people pushing for this wear AGTATT, but I have a feeling quite a few of them don't.

You're only seeing the city squids. The much more responsible racers, trackday bros, canyon carvers and long distance riders are geared up to the teeth.

I squid from time to time for short distances in the city and accept any and all risks. However if the Government were to encourage use of safety gear through insurance discounts/premiums I would be 100% for it.

[underscore]

You're only seeing the city squids. The much more responsible racers, trackday bros, canyon carvers and long distance riders are geared up to the teeth.

I squid from time to time for short distances in the city and accept any and all risks. However if the Government were to encourage use of safety gear through insurance discounts/premiums I would be 100% for it.

Forgive me if this comes across the wrong way but I'm pretty sure lane splitting would occur in the city, so what people are wearing when they're outside of the city isn't very relevant. Especially considering most accidents are in the city.

Again I'm sorry if this comes across the wrong way but why should the government have to give people discounts to get them to put on a jacket? Are we really at the point where people can't sort out that keeping your skin attached to your body is a good idea on their own? Plus I'd imagine it would get a bit tricky to give someone a discount based on them wearing gear as then I think they'd need a disclaimer saying your insurance is invalid if you're then not wearing the gear (although I'm somewhat surprised they don't have that in there already, at least with helmets). That said I think not wearing gear is one of the few things you can do on the road that only increases the risk to yourself.

[zulutango]

Somer people may say...Instead of discounts for weaering proper gear, how about refusing to pay...or reducing the money paid for injury claims hat arise from crashes? Sound harsh?...already your insurance will only pay above your deductable level in a crash....risk and choose a high deductable to get the benifit of lower premiums and your cheque is smaller. Get involved in a crash where it is shown your actions contributed to the severity of ther crash and your payout is lower. Soiunds fair to me. Why should I as a taxpayer pay for you when you deliberately do something that is dangerous when there is a safer option?

[Ball.J.Inder]

I thought this was supposed to be "fucked up shit that makes you laugh"? Not impressed with this thread.

[Inaii]

I thought this was supposed to be "fucked up shit that makes you laugh"? Not impressed with this thread.

^you're in the wrong thread yo...

[zulutango]

He's just brain-splitting between that thread and this one. :)

[Inaii]

I see what you did there :lol