[Ulic Qel-Droma]

"If you were a christian with a new baby, wouldn't the kindest, wisest thing be to kill them before they could ever sin, though it cost you your own soul?"

discuss.

I want christian views on this. for real. what is your answer? I'm not trolling.

When I read this, it blew my mind. but part of me feels like maybe I don't understand christians...

maybe their love for god and obeying gods command is priority above all of mankind, including themselves and their own children. god comes first, above all else. and his command is thou shall not kill.

but what if it guarantees your baby's seat in heaven? wouldn't it be the ultimate sacrifice? you definitely don't want them burning in hell for all of eternity... lol. but you're willing to take that place, if they get to go to heaven, cuz selflessness right? any parent would want better for their kids!!!

or i guess not to have the baby at all lol.

[StylinRed]

i thought jesus died for all their sins, so it doesn't matter how much they sin now, they just have to say they're sorry (repent) and go to heaven?

but there are so many different sects of christianity, and they all believe different things...

[flagella]

Lol. Ulic starting a thread to "discuss" religions.

[Ikkaku]

Kind of what stylinred said, except you also have to believe in Jesus and that he died for us.

The scenario ulic proposes sounds like something only the extremists would even think of. Even then, most of them would laugh at the idea.

[Presto]

"If you were a christian with a new baby, wouldn't the kindest, wisest thing be to kill them before they could ever sin, though it cost you your own soul?"


What context and ass did you pull that statement from?

[SkinnyPupp]

Ulic if you ever become a parent, that would be an interesting scenario to say the least

[Sid Vicious]

christian and other religion's logic is completely retarded. free will cannot logically coexist with an omnipotent/omniscient being so the whole "choosing to believe" point is completely moot

[Hondaracer]

Somewhat OT, but I'm reading an interesting book right now by Bill Bryson, a short history of nearly everything. Gives some amazing perspectives regarding the timelines that living/"thinking" beings have been around prior to any sort of formal religions etc.

[Great68]

A false dilemma. Catholics believe that all children are born with "original sin". Hence why babies are "baptized" to absolve them of that original sin.

[Razor Ramon HG]

Ulic high as shit

[originalhypa]

What the fucking fuck is this shit?

[320icar]

Lol, religion.

[inv4zn]

Religious theologies, their fallacies, and other aspects of religion (not just Christian) are SO vast that they cannot be debated properly. Especially not on an internet forum filled with 14 year olds, and one that is atypically atheist as RS.

FWIW, I'm Christian - I was born and raised one, I went/go to church every Sunday, even when I wasn't old enough to even begin thinking about whether it makes sense or not. I'd like to think that I am old enough now to decide, but I still choose to go to Church, and stay fairly active in my faith.

The point of this long-ass post is not to promote debate on religion, but to try and explain why debate on this topic is unnecessary, and pretty much impossible.

Everything below is my personal opinion, gained from my experience as someone labeled "religious". I'm not a theologian, a pastor/priest, and my BELIEFS may go against someone else's; so read it with that in mind.
I don't really care for your opinion that my beliefs are based on fairy tales, that an omnipotent God removes all aspects of free will, etc. Those are beaten to death, a thousand times over. I still CHOOSE to believe, and I'll try and outline why. I wrote this out more as a rant - it's probably not very cohesive, nor well written - but it's something I wanted to write. Feel free to read for your insight on MY PERSONAL OPINION.

Spoilered for length:

Sin, and redemption, is pretty much the biggest part of Christian theology. A vast majority (no percentile, again just personal notion) pretty much agree on the following: we all sin, and are born with sin, stemming from the whole Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve and snake, thing. Catholics call this Original Sin. Us Christians haven't given it a name (that I know of), but the premise is still the same. Believing in Jesus, accepting Him as Saviour, and believing that He died for us on the cross is the only and only way to absolve us. Rituals such as baptisms spawn from this belief. This point, essentially is Christianity. Anything varying is either cooked up by some cult leader, or has been heavily influenced by people.

So then, people ask, what about people that were never given a chance to even choose to believe? Are they all condemned to hell? Well, according to doctrine, apparently yes. It's shitty, and makes God look rather unfair - it's like some people were pre-selected to be "saved", while others were condemned from birth. This, logically of course, is a huge flaw in the concept of Christianity. But again, there's no real answer, and therefore, no real reason to debate it. Jesus asked his disciples to spread the word. Maybe we (as Christians) failed to do that, resulting in this condemnation of people who never got the chance. Maybe God has some other "backup" plan. Who knows.

The concept of "free will". This is another huge point of contention, and the majority of people that don't/refuse to believe say that they don't like the idea of having no control over their lives. I would agree. But my belief (again I stress, my belief) is that God has indeed given us free will. We can do whatever the hell we want, as long as we face the consequences. Any modern, civilized society follows the basic premise: you can say whatever you want, but if it's racist, you get in trouble. You can hit someone if you really want, but you'll get in trouble for that as well. God hasn't taken away free will from anyone. This is why even today we fight, have war, 'sin', whatever. But you'll have to face the consequences when you die. So what if you live life doing whatever the hell you want, and minutes before you die, you repent and say sorry - does that absolve you? Well, again, who knows? Maybe if it was sincere and heartfelt, God will accept this. Again, may seem a bit unfair, but maye God will reward those who lives a much better life with great things in heaven, while the jerk who repented at the last minute gets the bare minimum. Or maybe if He doesn't believe that the sorry was sincere, you're screwed. The "omnipotent" actually means something you know. If you approach this whole thing with a small amount of common sense (which some people will say is mutually exclusive from religion), things appear a bit more sensical. IMO anyway.

Are Christians all good people? Probably not. People are all greedy, self-intersted, etc. (original sin, cough cough). The point of Christianity is to try to live a good life, while also believing the first point of Jesus dying for us, etc. How many scandals has the Catholic church been involved in. How many pastors are in jail for stealing money from their church. How many people died because of Christian crusades for the sake of religion. The questions, rightfully deserved, are endless. And therefore a moot point. None of them have answers. There are good people who will never call themselves Christian, and shitty people who do call themselves Christian.

All in all, finding a balance is the key to MY faith. Some diehard Christians will call me blasphemous for interpreting faith to my own liking, but I'd like to think it's not up to them to judge me, it's up to the guy above. I pray before eating when I'm out with my friends who don't go to church, because they're cool with it. If I'm invited over to dinner at a Muslim household, I'll do it subtly so nobody knows, as to not be disrespectful. If God is going to get mad at me for that, then that's something I have to deal with. I have gay friends, and while I don't fully understand yet nor "condone" homosexuality, I am not going to stand in front of his house with a sign that says God hates Fags; they're still genuinely nice people. I read Harry Potter because it's a good book, not because I promote witchcraft and paganism.

I'd like to think the majority of Christians are like me, who are trying hard to find a balance between not being too liberal with faith, but also not becoming the next Westboro. And as I've said, there's no real right or wrong way. We have a book that was written 2000 years ago, written by people. Do I believe the things it says? Yes, because I believe that if things in it were all false, the omnipotent God would have done something about it. Can I prove it? No, of course not.

Speaking of the Bible, another hot point, here's my personal view, in case you've bothered to read this far: Do I believe the world is only a few thousand years old, refuting scientific evidence that it's 4 billion years old? No. I do believe God created it, as to me, the Big Bang theory is just as farfetched as an omnipotent being making it. Maybe the Bible skipped over a few hundred million years here and there. Maybe the "7 days" God took to create the universe was much longer, and 7 days is just a symbol. Did we evolve from monkeys, instead of coming down from Adam and Eve? I don't know. Maybe Adam and Eve were monkeys.

But all this is to just prove my original point. There's no real answer to any of the questions posed in this "debate of religions". You start bringing in other religions and their beliefs to the debate, and it becomes exponentially more complicated. And unproductive.

There's only one real way to find out, and that's going to happen when you're unable to post on RS. If there is truly a God, then I would have "won" while you guys have "lost"; if there isn't, then you would probably have had a bit more fun in life than I had. But consider the consequences, on the chance that us Christians were right. Of course, I don't believe in God "in case" he's real, but it's something to consider. Likewise, if you call yourself Christian, but live the most un-Christian life, and hope that just calling yourself one will give you a ticket to heave...well, good luck.


To answer, as a Christian, God, at least the one I like to think I believe in, has common sense. Being 'omnipotent' carries certain perks.

If some parents kill their child in the name of Christianity, I'm pretty sure God will shake his head - as for the outcome of the parties involved, there's absolutely no way to tell. Which is why there's no point on debating. For reason, click on spoiler button.

Anyway, long rant-ish post aside, your question is retarded.

"I want christian views on child killing". That's like saying "I want Canadian views on muslims being terrorists". Starting with a very provocative and extreme question, and pretending it's not a troll post - You're going to get such a large variety of answers, most of which will just lead to a huge flame war, instead of meaningful debate, and will almost surely elicit responses unfavourable to the point of the contention. Which I'm pretty sure is the very definition of trolling. If you're really interested in debating the topic of Christianity, call up a local church, ask to speak to a pastor about some questions you may have. Don't feign sincerity and ask questions clearly designed to draw ire and a shitstorm.

[Sid Vicious]

Religious theologies, their fallacies, and other aspects of religion (not just Christian) are SO vast that they cannot be debated properly. Especially not on an internet forum filled with 14 year olds, and one that is atypically atheist as RS.

FWIW, I'm Christian - I was born and raised one, I went/go to church every Sunday, even when I wasn't old enough to even begin thinking about whether it makes sense or not. I'd like to think that I am old enough now to decide, but I still choose to go to Church, and stay fairly active in my faith.

The point of this long-ass post is not to promote debate on religion, but to try and explain why debate on this topic is unnecessary, and pretty much impossible.

Everything below is my personal opinion, gained from my experience as someone labeled "religious". I'm not a theologian, a pastor/priest, and my BELIEFS may go against someone else's; so read it with that in mind.
I don't really care for your opinion that my beliefs are based on fairy tales, that an omnipotent God removes all aspects of free will, etc. Those are beaten to death, a thousand times over. I still CHOOSE to believe, and I'll try and outline why. I wrote this out more as a rant - it's probably not very cohesive, nor well written - but it's something I wanted to write. Feel free to read for your insight on MY PERSONAL OPINION.

Spoilered for length:

Sin, and redemption, is pretty much the biggest part of Christian theology. A vast majority (no percentile, again just personal notion) pretty much agree on the following: we all sin, and are born with sin, stemming from the whole Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve and snake, thing. Catholics call this Original Sin. Us Christians haven't given it a name (that I know of), but the premise is still the same. Believing in Jesus, accepting Him as Saviour, and believing that He died for us on the cross is the only and only way to absolve us. Rituals such as baptisms spawn from this belief. This point, essentially is Christianity. Anything varying is either cooked up by some cult leader, or has been heavily influenced by people.

So then, people ask, what about people that were never given a chance to even choose to believe? Are they all condemned to hell? Well, according to doctrine, apparently yes. It's shitty, and makes God look rather unfair - it's like some people were pre-selected to be "saved", while others were condemned from birth. This, logically of course, is a huge flaw in the concept of Christianity. But again, there's no real answer, and therefore, no real reason to debate it. Jesus asked his disciples to spread the word. Maybe we (as Christians) failed to do that, resulting in this condemnation of people who never got the chance. Maybe God has some other "backup" plan. Who knows.

The concept of "free will". This is another huge point of contention, and the majority of people that don't/refuse to believe say that they don't like the idea of having no control over their lives. I would agree. But my belief (again I stress, my belief) is that God has indeed given us free will. We can do whatever the hell we want, as long as we face the consequences. Any modern, civilized society follows the basic premise: you can say whatever you want, but if it's racist, you get in trouble. You can hit someone if you really want, but you'll get in trouble for that as well. God hasn't taken away free will from anyone. This is why even today we fight, have war, 'sin', whatever. But you'll have to face the consequences when you die. So what if you live life doing whatever the hell you want, and minutes before you die, you repent and say sorry - does that absolve you? Well, again, who knows? Maybe if it was sincere and heartfelt, God will accept this. Again, may seem a bit unfair, but maye God will reward those who lives a much better life with great things in heaven, while the jerk who repented at the last minute gets the bare minimum. Or maybe if He doesn't believe that the sorry was sincere, you're screwed. The "omnipotent" actually means something you know. If you approach this whole thing with a small amount of common sense (which some people will say is mutually exclusive from religion), things appear a bit more sensical. IMO anyway.

Are Christians all good people? Probably not. People are all greedy, self-intersted, etc. (original sin, cough cough). The point of Christianity is to try to live a good life, while also believing the first point of Jesus dying for us, etc. How many scandals has the Catholic church been involved in. How many pastors are in jail for stealing money from their church. How many people died because of Christian crusades for the sake of religion. The questions, rightfully deserved, are endless. And therefore a moot point. None of them have answers. There are good people who will never call themselves Christian, and shitty people who do call themselves Christian.

All in all, finding a balance is the key to MY faith. Some diehard Christians will call me blasphemous for interpreting faith to my own liking, but I'd like to think it's not up to them to judge me, it's up to the guy above. I pray before eating when I'm out with my friends who don't go to church, because they're cool with it. If I'm invited over to dinner at a Muslim household, I'll do it subtly so nobody knows, as to not be disrespectful. If God is going to get mad at me for that, then that's something I have to deal with. I have gay friends, and while I don't fully understand yet nor "condone" homosexuality, I am not going to stand in front of his house with a sign that says God hates Fags; they're still genuinely nice people. I read Harry Potter because it's a good book, not because I promote witchcraft and paganism.

I'd like to think the majority of Christians are like me, who are trying hard to find a balance between not being too liberal with faith, but also not becoming the next Westboro. And as I've said, there's no real right or wrong way. We have a book that was written 2000 years ago, written by people. Do I believe the things it says? Yes, because I believe that if things in it were all false, the omnipotent God would have done something about it. Can I prove it? No, of course not.

Speaking of the Bible, another hot point, here's my personal view, in case you've bothered to read this far: Do I believe the world is only a few thousand years old, refuting scientific evidence that it's 4 billion years old? No. I do believe God created it, as to me, the Big Bang theory is just as farfetched as an omnipotent being making it. Maybe the Bible skipped over a few hundred million years here and there. Maybe the "7 days" God took to create the universe was much longer, and 7 days is just a symbol. Did we evolve from monkeys, instead of coming down from Adam and Eve? I don't know. Maybe Adam and Eve were monkeys.

But all this is to just prove my original point. There's no real answer to any of the questions posed in this "debate of religions". You start bringing in other religions and their beliefs to the debate, and it becomes exponentially more complicated. And unproductive.

There's only one real way to find out, and that's going to happen when you're unable to post on RS. If there is truly a God, then I would have "won" while you guys have "lost"; if there isn't, then you would probably have had a bit more fun in life than I had. But consider the consequences, on the chance that us Christians were right. Of course, I don't believe in God "in case" he's real, but it's something to consider. Likewise, if you call yourself Christian, but live the most un-Christian life, and hope that just calling yourself one will give you a ticket to heave...well, good luck.


To answer, as a Christian, God, at least the one I like to think I believe in, has common sense. Being 'omnipotent' carries certain perks.

If some parents kill their child in the name of Christianity, I'm pretty sure God will shake his head - as for the outcome of the parties involved, there's absolutely no way to tell. Which is why there's no point on debating. For reason, click on spoiler button.

Anyway, long rant-ish post aside, your question is retarded.

"I want christian views on child killing". That's like saying "I want Canadian views on muslims being terrorists". Starting with a very provocative and extreme question, and pretending it's not a troll post - You're going to get such a large variety of answers, most of which will just lead to a huge flame war, instead of meaningful debate, and will almost surely elicit responses unfavourable to the point of the contention. Which I'm pretty sure is the very definition of trolling. If you're really interested in debating the topic of Christianity, call up a local church, ask to speak to a pastor about some questions you may have. Don't feign sincerity and ask questions clearly designed to draw ire and a shitstorm.

https://fabersabroad.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/24w65hf.jpg

[pastarocket]

Religious theologies, their fallacies, and other aspects of religion (not just Christian) are SO vast that they cannot be debated properly. Especially not on an internet forum filled with 14 year olds, and one that is atypically atheist as RS.

FWIW, I'm Christian - I was born and raised one, I went/go to church every Sunday, even when I wasn't old enough to even begin thinking about whether it makes sense or not. I'd like to think that I am old enough now to decide, but I still choose to go to Church, and stay fairly active in my faith.

The point of this long-ass post is not to promote debate on religion, but to try and explain why debate on this topic is unnecessary, and pretty much impossible.

Everything below is my personal opinion, gained from my experience as someone labeled "religious". I'm not a theologian, a pastor/priest, and my BELIEFS may go against someone else's; so read it with that in mind.
I don't really care for your opinion that my beliefs are based on fairy tales, that an omnipotent God removes all aspects of free will, etc. Those are beaten to death, a thousand times over. I still CHOOSE to believe, and I'll try and outline why. I wrote this out more as a rant - it's probably not very cohesive, nor well written - but it's something I wanted to write. Feel free to read for your insight on MY PERSONAL OPINION.

Spoilered for length:

Sin, and redemption, is pretty much the biggest part of Christian theology. A vast majority (no percentile, again just personal notion) pretty much agree on the following: we all sin, and are born with sin, stemming from the whole Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve and snake, thing. Catholics call this Original Sin. Us Christians haven't given it a name (that I know of), but the premise is still the same. Believing in Jesus, accepting Him as Saviour, and believing that He died for us on the cross is the only and only way to absolve us. Rituals such as baptisms spawn from this belief. This point, essentially is Christianity. Anything varying is either cooked up by some cult leader, or has been heavily influenced by people.

So then, people ask, what about people that were never given a chance to even choose to believe? Are they all condemned to hell? Well, according to doctrine, apparently yes. It's shitty, and makes God look rather unfair - it's like some people were pre-selected to be "saved", while others were condemned from birth. This, logically of course, is a huge flaw in the concept of Christianity. But again, there's no real answer, and therefore, no real reason to debate it. Jesus asked his disciples to spread the word. Maybe we (as Christians) failed to do that, resulting in this condemnation of people who never got the chance. Maybe God has some other "backup" plan. Who knows.

The concept of "free will". This is another huge point of contention, and the majority of people that don't/refuse to believe say that they don't like the idea of having no control over their lives. I would agree. But my belief (again I stress, my belief) is that God has indeed given us free will. We can do whatever the hell we want, as long as we face the consequences. Any modern, civilized society follows the basic premise: you can say whatever you want, but if it's racist, you get in trouble. You can hit someone if you really want, but you'll get in trouble for that as well. God hasn't taken away free will from anyone. This is why even today we fight, have war, 'sin', whatever. But you'll have to face the consequences when you die. So what if you live life doing whatever the hell you want, and minutes before you die, you repent and say sorry - does that absolve you? Well, again, who knows? Maybe if it was sincere and heartfelt, God will accept this. Again, may seem a bit unfair, but maye God will reward those who lives a much better life with great things in heaven, while the jerk who repented at the last minute gets the bare minimum. Or maybe if He doesn't believe that the sorry was sincere, you're screwed. The "omnipotent" actually means something you know. If you approach this whole thing with a small amount of common sense (which some people will say is mutually exclusive from religion), things appear a bit more sensical. IMO anyway.

Are Christians all good people? Probably not. People are all greedy, self-intersted, etc. (original sin, cough cough). The point of Christianity is to try to live a good life, while also believing the first point of Jesus dying for us, etc. How many scandals has the Catholic church been involved in. How many pastors are in jail for stealing money from their church. How many people died because of Christian crusades for the sake of religion. The questions, rightfully deserved, are endless. And therefore a moot point. None of them have answers. There are good people who will never call themselves Christian, and shitty people who do call themselves Christian.

All in all, finding a balance is the key to MY faith. Some diehard Christians will call me blasphemous for interpreting faith to my own liking, but I'd like to think it's not up to them to judge me, it's up to the guy above. I pray before eating when I'm out with my friends who don't go to church, because they're cool with it. If I'm invited over to dinner at a Muslim household, I'll do it subtly so nobody knows, as to not be disrespectful. If God is going to get mad at me for that, then that's something I have to deal with. I have gay friends, and while I don't fully understand yet nor "condone" homosexuality, I am not going to stand in front of his house with a sign that says God hates Fags; they're still genuinely nice people. I read Harry Potter because it's a good book, not because I promote witchcraft and paganism.

I'd like to think the majority of Christians are like me, who are trying hard to find a balance between not being too liberal with faith, but also not becoming the next Westboro. And as I've said, there's no real right or wrong way. We have a book that was written 2000 years ago, written by people. Do I believe the things it says? Yes, because I believe that if things in it were all false, the omnipotent God would have done something about it. Can I prove it? No, of course not.

Speaking of the Bible, another hot point, here's my personal view, in case you've bothered to read this far: Do I believe the world is only a few thousand years old, refuting scientific evidence that it's 4 billion years old? No. I do believe God created it, as to me, the Big Bang theory is just as farfetched as an omnipotent being making it. Maybe the Bible skipped over a few hundred million years here and there. Maybe the "7 days" God took to create the universe was much longer, and 7 days is just a symbol. Did we evolve from monkeys, instead of coming down from Adam and Eve? I don't know. Maybe Adam and Eve were monkeys.

But all this is to just prove my original point. There's no real answer to any of the questions posed in this "debate of religions". You start bringing in other religions and their beliefs to the debate, and it becomes exponentially more complicated. And unproductive.

There's only one real way to find out, and that's going to happen when you're unable to post on RS. If there is truly a God, then I would have "won" while you guys have "lost"; if there isn't, then you would probably have had a bit more fun in life than I had. But consider the consequences, on the chance that us Christians were right. Of course, I don't believe in God "in case" he's real, but it's something to consider. Likewise, if you call yourself Christian, but live the most un-Christian life, and hope that just calling yourself one will give you a ticket to heave...well, good luck.


To answer, as a Christian, God, at least the one I like to think I believe in, has common sense. Being 'omnipotent' carries certain perks.

If some parents kill their child in the name of Christianity, I'm pretty sure God will shake his head - as for the outcome of the parties involved, there's absolutely no way to tell. Which is why there's no point on debating. For reason, click on spoiler button.

Anyway, long rant-ish post aside, your question is retarded.

"I want christian views on child killing". That's like saying "I want Canadian views on muslims being terrorists". Starting with a very provocative and extreme question, and pretending it's not a troll post - You're going to get such a large variety of answers, most of which will just lead to a huge flame war, instead of meaningful debate, and will almost surely elicit responses unfavourable to the point of the contention. Which I'm pretty sure is the very definition of trolling. If you're really interested in debating the topic of Christianity, call up a local church, ask to speak to a pastor about some questions you may have. Don't feign sincerity and ask questions clearly designed to draw ire and a shitstorm.

Amen, brother. I'm also a Christian. -will not give a long winded reply to OP's post because I do not have the time for it. The Lord wants me to focus on my work, instead of "multi tasking" on other things like RS. :troll:

This is my two cents about this thread. You can look at as parents rights over a child vs. God the Creator's rights over humanity.

I believe in God as the ultimate creator of ALL life, not just babies. I'm referring to the entire universe. He has the final say on the creation and destruction of life.

When I follow this belief, how can I agree that a parent would exercise the right to kill their own offspring, their own flesh and blood?

What kind of messed up parent thinks they can determine from their own ways, own plans, that they can secure a baby's entrance into Heaven with God?? I believe it is the sovereign Lord who decides who goes into Heaven after a death in this world.

God is love. If a parent truly loved God, and loved their children, they would protect their child's life insteading of ending it on their own terms.

[StylinRed]

https://fabersabroad.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/24w65hf.jpg

yep, he can, and then snap his fingers again to change the burrito so he can eat it, thus maintaining omnipotence. can he create something that he can't destroy? now there's a question

i'm not christian but i always find it amusing, that people like to think they can outsmart/outreason/explain/deny the notion of such a being, if one exists...the ego of man is huuuge

but that doesn't mean we should believe, it just means ultimately, we couldn't have a clue one way or another

[Gumby]

Religion aside, seeing some of the crap that happens in this world, it makes me wonder if I was selfish to have kids...

[Ronin]

"If you were a christian with a new baby, wouldn't the kindest, wisest thing be to kill them before they could ever sin, though it cost you your own soul?"

discuss.

I want christian views on this. for real. what is your answer? I'm not trolling.

When I read this, it blew my mind. but part of me feels like maybe I don't understand christians...

maybe their love for god and obeying gods command is priority above all of mankind, including themselves and their own children. god comes first, above all else. and his command is thou shall not kill.

but what if it guarantees your baby's seat in heaven? wouldn't it be the ultimate sacrifice? you definitely don't want them burning in hell for all of eternity... lol. but you're willing to take that place, if they get to go to heaven, cuz selflessness right? any parent would want better for their kids!!!

or i guess not to have the baby at all lol.

:suspicious: :fulloffuck: :seriously:

What drugs do I have to be on for this to make sense?

And it isn't as if murder prevents you from going to heaven. The Bible is full of murder.

[banana200]

"If you were a christian with a new baby, wouldn't the kindest, wisest thing be to kill them before they could ever sin, though it cost you your own soul?"

discuss.

I want christian views on this. for real. what is your answer? I'm not trolling.

When I read this, it blew my mind. but part of me feels like maybe I don't understand christians...

maybe their love for god and obeying gods command is priority above all of mankind, including themselves and their own children. god comes first, above all else. and his command is thou shall not kill.

but what if it guarantees your baby's seat in heaven? wouldn't it be the ultimate sacrifice? you definitely don't want them burning in hell for all of eternity... lol. but you're willing to take that place, if they get to go to heaven, cuz selflessness right? any parent would want better for their kids!!!

or i guess not to have the baby at all lol.

Christianity:

Adam was the first sinner, hence the fall of man, and everyone from Adam (basically all humans) are sinners.

So killing your baby does not change the fact he/she is also a sinner.

[6793026]

I'm NOT going to post a long ass answer.
When someone falls asleep because you bore them with too much knowledge, you've failed. Here's a short version.

"If you're a parent, and knowing you'll give birth to a child who will crash your car, lie to you, go past your curfew, move out at 15, would you rather NOT have the child"

As a parent, you LOVE your child so much you want to give them
-free will to make any choices in life
-you want to love them unconditionally
-you will continue to love them (even if they go to jail / or arrested etc)
than not having them at all.

I hope this make sense. It's the most simplest version example about God's love for his children.

Think of you adopting a dog, would you rather kill your dog knowing your dog will disobey you at times, run away, or pee on your shoes accidentally?

Regarding StylinRed's comment about go sin like crazy as long as you repent you can still go to heaven:

So YES, you know your parents will forgive you each time you lie, run away etc. As a GOOD child, you want to be honorable and that specifically is why you wouldn't want to do these things and want to obey the law, and get good marks etc.

[frozen]

What the fuck is this troll thread? I guess I shouldn't be surprised reading Ulic's responses in various threads in the past. The guy is clearly mentally challenged and I'd put him on par with CiC. I would definitely pay to see those two morons doing a live debate though.

[tiger_handheld]

in for the responses

[white rocket]

Oh Ulic, interesting subject yet a terrible opening statement. LOL!

I'm guessing your initial question is answered now no?

[ae101]

inbe4CiC lol

[!LittleDragon]

A better question would be if God asked you to kill your child like he asked of Abraham... Not knowing if you'll be stopped at the last second, would you do it?

Is it still a goal of the modern Christian to achieve this level of blind faith?

[6793026]

A better question would be if God asked you to kill your child like he asked of Abraham... Not knowing if you'll be stopped at the last second, would you do it?

Is it still a goal of the modern Christian to achieve this level of blind faith?

Define modern Christian and what is blind faith? In fact, what is un-blind faith?
Not challenging you just curious what you mean.

Put it this way. Have faith in God (or whatever believe in).

It's no different than you asking the hot ass girl that's sitting in your car after a ride and you spilled your guts out; she's borderline on the fence and you say "have faith in me, and in us".

Will your bf tell you to have faith in us? yup. Will God tell you thru SMS, or in person, most likely not.

When you and your wife finds out you're expecting and you have no idea if you will be a good father but your wife says "have a little faith in yourself"

Faith is hard to explain. NO DIFFERENT if your future gf asks you "can you explain faith" "How do you know our faith in this relationship"...

That's another topic all together.

[CharlesInCharge]

At its heart, Judaism, Christianity and later advanced Islam are a guidance for just laws and political\societal governance for humans to be free and live a civilized life.
Said question is meant to undermine religion.

Denying religion leads to the path of (the all encompassing) Hollywoodism which speaks for itself in the following chart.

The Death Rate Of Middle-Aged White Americans

http://i.imgur.com/7WVy8SU.png

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

At its heart, Judaism, Christianity and later advanced Islam are a guidance for just laws and political\societal governance for humans to be free and live a civilized life.
Said question is meant to undermine religion.

Denying religion leads to the path of (the all encompassing) Hollywoodism which speaks for itself in the following chart.

The Death Rate Of Middle-Aged White Americans

http://i.imgur.com/7WVy8SU.png

shit this is the best answer in the thread!

hahahaha

it's the most pragmatic answer.



yes my question has been answered (not by CIC). I did not know that original sin was passed down to all. it's like guilty by association. isn't that a really primitive law lol.

closes the loop/hole/gap in that part of the religion now i guess. jeez they have a reason for everything.



what if god is omnipotent like the way we are when we grow a culture of fungus/bacteria that we have extensively studied?

i mean, we might as well be omnipotent. we know exactly what is gonna happen in that petri dish, and every other petri dish like it. we know the momentum and all the stages and steps, micro and macro. we know the equation and all the variables. it might as well be omnipotence.


second question i guess... why the new testament? shouldn't the old testament be more true? more original?

isn't hell just exactly the same as heaven? except god isn't in hell. that's how it was supposed to be before they revised the mythos and added the fire and brimstone right?

basically heaven is just god's club, and he kicked all the yolo bros out into the curb, and they went down the road to another club and called it hell. and just so happens satan is the alpha amongst them.

since no one wants to be stranded on the strip, they've either got to wander into heaven, but the bouncers probably wont let em in, or you gotta stay outside and line up for an eternity to prove your dedication to god, or they can go to hell, which is basically has no bouncers. the losers that haven't self identified are left wandering the strip, lost forever in own indecisive misery lol.

and why is god so egotistical and mean? why can't he just love us no matter what? why do we have to worship him? and only him? and no one else... why do we have to give him worship... and like... it seems so... he seems so human.

he made humans in his image right? so... like... maybe he's just like us... and he's just enforcing rules on his petri dish...

like if the petridish gets contaminated and does shit he doesn't want for his experiment... he cleanses it, and restarts. just like a human scientist would. too many sinners, pick the good culture, replant it in another petridish full of the perfect balanced nourishment, destroy the rest in an incinerator or some shit lol.

...all the rules and stuff enforced and preached are just so he can get the outcome he wants. it's a controlled experiment. sinners are the ones that deviate from the test.


what do free will libertarians think?
what if there are people that WANNA go to hell. lol. isn't it their right? i mean what if enough people wanna all go to hell and derive bliss from this thought, would god be like... "no... no... that's wrong. you can't like that. that's not what i intended!". it would be like trying convert gays to straights. god would be all confused, no, you can't LIKE going to hell, that's wrong! you have to like heaven! liking hell is a sin! lol... jk sorta.

what do determinists think?
we're already destined for heaven or hell. it's all mapped out. hell, even if you're not religious but a determinist, there's no difference anyway! lol

what do nihilists think?
it doesn't matter anyway? nothing matters? but what if god was real? would he just be a bigger version of us? he doesn't matter either? his creations are just his own meanings and delusion self perceptions? the truth is he has no objective meaning either?

what do solipsists think?
lol, we are god? i am god? we are all god? or only one of us is? and the rest are just figments of his/her imagination? hah.

do any of those even matter?


what is the fear of being eternally damned? what if someone truly doesn't give a fuck. are they not a demon or angel or whatever themselves? reborn a demon? an angel? some other aspect of god? manifested as some other entity?

why does he even need to punish us?! it just seems so fucking futile and small picture. as if punishing some pathetic human's soul is gonna fucking make a difference to an all powerful being.



what if god is just a powerful entity that has gone mad/insane overtime? but nothing else can trump his will, and his will becomes reality, so he basically lives in his own lucid dream, fooled by his own creations, lost in his own mind.
http://4ca03fhcpiv4bsn7vbg2ef11td.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/misc_photos/Mr-Burns.gif

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

What context and ass did you pull that statement from?

god's ass? everything is owned by god so... obviously.

but it's a very legit question if one doesn't know about original sin.

i assume most people just assume if you sin you go to hell, and if you don't sin you don't go to hell. pretty simple.

but i guess most people, like myself have learnt that you actually are born sinful. and you must cleanse yourself of this sin by hashtagging god as much as possible in your value system. and it's the ONLY way to get into heaven.

I mean, you can sin, cuz jesus was the uber tank on some boss raid and absorbed all of mankinds sins. you just have to believe in him.

sounds like we were born into a rigged system bros.

like the nigga born in the hood, there's no way to get out. started from the bottom and we stuck. there's no way we gettin to the roof with drake and his shoppers drugmart friends.


but then here's the flip side. ok... it's like why not then? i don't know if heaven is real or not. or some crazy 10th dimension quantum science crazy version of it. whatever the interpretation.

if all i have to do is just have faith and believe in it. it's quite easy. i mean. if it's easy enough to slightly believe that the possibility of multiple universes exists... then fuckin heaven must exist for sure LOL.

sure i can believe that theory. why not. i can even put faith into it. i mean cuz all i gotta do is that?

ALL I GOTTA DO IS ACCEPT THE FAITH! and i get into club heaven? i get to walk past all the losers in the line with the divine stamp on my wrist? and the bouncers, gabe and big mike treat me like fuckin VIP?

fuckin join me up bros.

there's no rule that says how worship has to happen right? or that it has to take place inside the walls of a church right?

I will treat others as i wish to be treated. I will focus on my life and acquiring the big bux and living the high life. because if i am happy, others around me will be happy. i will spread the wealth and happiness.

thanks creator, for allowing the chance of reality and therefore revscene to exist. amen.

isn't that what he already wants? so if i switch my alignment from "i don't know" to "sure, you get my vote god, you give me heaven, the other guy gives me... well im not sure".

what's so hard? LOL what's so bad about this?

is truth really that important?

how many of you would have an existential crisis if you found out god existed? or that existence is deterministic?

lol... why would those events even affect you? don't we all just go on with our lives, doing what we feel like doing, and chasing our goals and dreams?

our belief doesn't change the truth of reality.

believing in god doesn't make him exist. but not believing in god doesn't make him not exist either.

i mean if your allegiance is against god, sure, stay against god. but what if your allegiance is neutral? on one hand u have god and all his believers trying to persuade you.

on the other hand you have "null". lol. why WOULDN'T you just pick the side that has at least a support system LOL. it's just like voting bros. you can check off GOD, check off a box with no name beside it, or throw out the voting slip. but hey none of us wanna be in purgatory right. that place is for fucking losers.

[!LittleDragon]

Define modern Christian and what is blind faith? In fact, what is un-blind faith?
Not challenging you just curious what you mean.

Put it this way. Have faith in God (or whatever believe in).

It's no different than you asking the hot ass girl that's sitting in your car after a ride and you spilled your guts out; she's borderline on the fence and you say "have faith in me, and in us".

Will your bf tell you to have faith in us? yup. Will God tell you thru SMS, or in person, most likely not.

When you and your wife finds out you're expecting and you have no idea if you will be a good father but your wife says "have a little faith in yourself"

Faith is hard to explain. NO DIFFERENT if your future gf asks you "can you explain faith" "How do you know our faith in this relationship"...

That's another topic all together.


Modern Christian, was just a catch all for today's Christians. The type that still believes but doesn't go to church every Sunday. There's still the old faithful out there but I'm mostly referring to the casual Christian.

Faith to me is belief in something contrary to evidence. Using your examples, believing a relationship will work out in the end despite everything going downhill.

The example I like to use is money. If nobody believed the piece of paper in my pocket has a value of $20 then it's just a piece of paper. If nobody believed the numbers in my bank account has any value then it's just bits and bytes. Faith is what gives money value.

What I notice these days is that Christian scientists go and try to find evidence that supports their beliefs. Evidence to prove events in the Bible actually happened. I just think that the need to go prove the Bible to be a true account of history is basically questioning their faith and faith is what the big three religions are based on.

So back to my question. It doesn't matter how, if God asked you to believe in his plan and to kill your child. Would you? That question was open to everyone BTW.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

you have to tell me how i would be able to distinguish it as divine word from God himself or schizophrenia.

if i can't distinguish the two well... maybe they're one and the same. just faith lol.

if you believe it, then you believe it.

then that is the ultimate test.

if you truly believe it, then you will prove it through your zealousness.

your actions will speak for your values.

if you don't kill your kid, you either don't believe in god, or at that moment you realised you'd rather go to hell and disobey gods command than kill your own child.

vishnu swoops in and smacks u upside the head for hanging out with the original sinners and tells you that he's been around for eons before God was. and that god is just a spoiled kid like the chinese fuer-dai driving lambos. he got too much power too soon. that little shit making all the other gods look bad.

[flagella]

Lol Ulic, whatever you are smoking, they must be good.

[Hondaracer]

Tldr

[frozen]

Tldr

Skimmed through first paragraph. Almost gave me cancer.

[GLOW]

shit this is the best answer in the thread!


I agree!

yes my question has been answered (not by CIC). I did not know that original sin was passed down to all. it's like guilty by association. isn't that a really primitive law lol.

do not group all christians' under the belief of original sin. that could be a separate debatable topic among theologians in itself.

[Hondaracer]

Yea, which bible do you follow, the one re-written by a king, or the 50 other variations..

Base my life off dem chapters best-sellers

[white rocket]

Faith = Hope. Without hope, all is lost. My belief is that "faith" is believing in something that is either contrary to evidence or has no evidence at all. It gives hope when there is none. Release control and be set free. Have faith in something you know nothing about. Faith and religion are two completely different things in my opinion. It just so happens that faith applies to religion.

I am a man of faith but I think religion is bogus out-dated fear mongering BS. No disrespect to any religious peeps out there because anyone has the right to do or believe in anything. It's just not for me.

Good discussion though :thumbsup:

[Expresso]

Ulic, this is sooo Frank Yang.

[Mr.C]

Christian here. I'll answer, but you gotta tell me what you were smoking when you came up with it.

There's essentially two commandments:

- Respect/worship God

- Treat others like you'd like to be treated.

Since I'd rather not get sacrificed, I wouldn't sacrifice a baby.

[CharlesInCharge]

Who would change the diapers of the babies in heaven? or cradle them to sleep? ... heaven slaves?

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Ulic, this is sooo Frank Yang.

hahaha to be honest, frank yang is like the socially shameless version of me. I often think we could be long lost taiwanese brothers. shit i should just make videos like him.

Christian here. I'll answer, but you gotta tell me what you were smoking when you came up with it.

There's essentially two commandments:

- Respect/worship God

- Treat others like you'd like to be treated.

Since I'd rather not get sacrificed, I wouldn't sacrifice a baby.

honestly i wasnt smoking anything. i actually saw this question posted on quora... and it just stumped me. i totally froze and thought about it. then i decided to ask the people of RS for an answer with more flare than the answers you can find on quora lol. quora is too PC. people wont post shit if they think it'll offend people. i came here for RAW answers. say it like you mean it. say it with conviction. don't want any leftist libertarian pussy covered answers.

true enough answer. I know the golden rule. it's the only rule i believe in. I believe all religion stems from that single rule. that's the ONLY religious rule. everything else is dogmatic bullshit.

basically ANYTHING that is dogmatic... ex. if you do X, Y will happen. or thou must not do X. thou must do Y... those are all human inventions for the purpose of control or ego.

Faith = Hope. Without hope, all is lost. My belief is that "faith" is believing in something that is either contrary to evidence or has no evidence at all. It gives hope when there is none. Release control and be set free. Have faith in something you know nothing about. Faith and religion are two completely different things in my opinion. It just so happens that faith applies to religion.

I am a man of faith but I think religion is bogus out-dated fear mongering BS. No disrespect to any religious peeps out there because anyone has the right to do or believe in anything. It's just not for me.

Good discussion though :thumbsup:

i actually had a theory that faith is actually required for things to be tested at it's most extreme.

imagine things spreading in all directions, through learning and experience, experimenting and validation... etc etc. any form of spreading, whether it be physical or mentally. spiritually or religiously.

the extremists, the zealots, the martyrs... they're the ones that will never stray, no matter the evidence or doubt. no matter what society says, no matter what the universe says. they will always keep on the same path till their bodies deteriorate till the point they cannot go any further.

it's the universes way of making sure that something will keep trying that direction for all of eternity. you never know what's at the end of that path unless you keep going without doubt, without your faith being shaken.

We see that everyday. sometimes some people will succeed with all odds and evidence against them... some people will fail, even with all odds and evidence WITH them.

and then the learning process is that all other humans will observe and study these other people and the information is spread to the rest. and hopefully everyone gets "upgraded" in the process of having a few zealots wander into oblivion. but we still need to know where oblivion is.

like ants in a colony spreading out in search of whatever. most ants are going no where and will never return. but the ones that do return with whatever it is, other ants will start to follow.

it's a necessity for intelligent evolution. for exploration. testing the limits.

[mr_chin]

Holy fuck, too many movies for some of you. To actually think that there is a place in the clouds, with golden gates that lets you through to eternal peace, is absurd.

Do people actually think that they'll be given a list of committed sins when they die so they can review on how they lived their life?

Nobody knows what happens after death and nobody has lived to tell it, well.. fuck obviously.

The belief of going to hell after death exists only because you, yourself, cannot truly forgive yourself of your sins. "God" is simply, your morals and your conscience. It's easy to say you can forgive yourself after you rob an innocent family or whatever, but it's honestly hard to do. If it truly goes against your conscience, it'll linger in your subconscious and it is the moments of your last seconds that you'll bravely come forward and admit your sins, or never at all. When you die with guilt, you'll die a horrible death, sending your soul in a tormented state, which is considered hell. Even the evilest person on earth have morals and conscience, it's just that they're so tied up with their conscious life (be it taught, traumatized, etc.) that they'll never be able to dig into their subconscious where the truth lies.

IMO, there is no God, but there are souls like wanderers, spirits like guiding angels, demons, and devils. And thus, I believe in reincarnation. There are many witness/encounters of things like ghosts, demonic possessions, angelic guidance, but you never hear anything about a much higher entity throwing judgments at you or seeing a higher entity stopping an inevitable fatal car crash, etc.

In the end, what you believe is what you believe. Right and wrong, good or bad, is only in your mind. Circumstances where survival and/or protection comes into play, who is it to determine said action is right or wrong? So many different scenarios can determine if an action is good or bad, it's how you end up portraying it. However, law and society has come into a major part of this and has clouded our minds that in many scenarios, it is better not to act in a "wrong" way, even if your morals and principals says it is okay to act.

If you believe what people think of you matters, than you believe that they have the right to judge you. Again, it's easy to say, IDGAF what others think, but subconsciously, you might, and most likely, the majority of us do, otherwise we wouldn't be wearing nice clothes, going to work smelling nice, etc.

Lastly, if you've come here to seek answers on religion, a specific question to right and wrong, or reasons and ways of life, you're somewhat lost somewhere in your life. Otherwise you wouldn't be needing answers. On top of that, if you're the kind of people preaching about your religion to others, you're not a true believer/follower/whatever because you're seeking for validation (whenever someone listens, follows, and/or agrees). Don't preach, teach.