[Amaru]

Question for anyone with experience selling (or buying) used from a dealership.

Currently looking at a used Lexus for my fiancee. It's a CPO car at the local Lexus dealer.... been on their lot for 6 weeks. They're asking $24,900... down $4k from the original asking price of $28,900 (allegedly).

From my research, that price seems fair based on the market. Pretty much in line with comparable cars for sale in the area.

What might a reasonable starting offer be? How much should I expect them to drop the price, realistically?

Any general advice on how to negotiate a used car purchase from a dealer?

Many thanks in advance. :bigthumb:

[Gerbs]

What car is it

[4444]

Question for anyone with experience selling (or buying) used from a dealership.

Currently looking at a used Lexus for my fiancee. It's a CPO car at the local Lexus dealer.... been on their lot for 6 weeks. They're asking $24,900... down $4k from the original asking price of $28,900 (allegedly).

From my research, that price seems fair based on the market. Pretty much in line with comparable cars for sale in the area.

What might a reasonable starting offer be? How much should I expect them to drop the price, realistically?

Any general advice on how to negotiate a used car purchase from a dealer?

Many thanks in advance. :bigthumb:

price and value are not the same thing.

based on the car, its condition, attributes, etc. what is the value of the car (what are cars similar being sold on craigslist for? this can be tough as asking price on c'list isn't necessarily the sales price). based on that number, what do you want to pay for the car?

If you are happy paying what the car is 'worth' (regardless of what the sticker price is), then offer that. if you must get it for less, offer less.

as far as negotiations are concerned, just go in say you're interested in that car, but you only have this much, top dollar. do not offer a penny more, if they don't take, leave. if you budge on your 'this is all i have', you have lost all credibility and have no leverage in negotiations.

if u really want this specific car, u will likely have to pay closer to the value, so can't go in as hard on the negotiations.

buying a generic 2nd hand car should never be about 'the one' - plenty of fish in the sea!

[jasonturbo]

Use the patented Jasonturbo 3-step negotiation process

1. Find a car you like

2. Have all of your direct friends call/text/email the seller pretending to be interested buyers, have some of them go see the car, have your friends miss appointments to see the car, waste tremendous amounts the sellers time and then have your friends savagely lowball the seller and continuously tell the seller how their car is in disrepair etc.

3. After a couple weeks of this, tell all friends to go silent so that it seems like interest has died, and then show up with your slightly less shitty low ball offer. Drive off into the sunset in your new car you got for a great price.

[Dragon-88]

Use the patented Jasonturbo 3-step negotiation process

1. Find a car you like

2. Have all of your direct friends call/text/email the seller pretending to be interested buyers, have some of them go see the car, have your friends miss appointments to see the car, waste tremendous amounts the sellers time and then have your friends savagely lowball the seller and continuously tell the seller how their car is in disrepair etc.

3. After a couple weeks of this, tell all friends to go silent so that it seems like interest has died, and then show up with your slightly less shitty low ball offer. Drive off into the sunset in your new car you got for a great price.

Haha, thats what I do.. Annoy the seller to the point they're ready to sell to the next reasonable offer. Even if they take a loss they usually dont care. Cause less headaches in the long run for them.

[tiger_handheld]

Go to bank
open a LOC for 20k
Withdraw 19.5k from LOC
Walk into dealership on Dec 27, talk to sales guy
offer to sign and drive today, payment is cash
sit down for negotiations with sales guy and sales manager
pull of stacks of $100 and place on table and start "negotiating"
say "look here, I'm buying a car today, you can take my 19.5 or someone else will"
...let the chips fall where they may.


year end sales targets, cold hard cash, usually are enough to get people to bend over and bend some more.

[68style]

Man... some of you people are legit assholes. Straight talk.

[und3f3at3d]

Use the patented Jasonturbo 3-step negotiation process

1. Find a car you like

2. Have all of your direct friends call/text/email the seller pretending to be interested buyers, have some of them go see the car, have your friends miss appointments to see the car, waste tremendous amounts the sellers time and then have your friends savagely lowball the seller and continuously tell the seller how their car is in disrepair etc.

3. After a couple weeks of this, tell all friends to go silent so that it seems like interest has died, and then show up with your slightly less shitty low ball offer. Drive off into the sunset in your new car you got for a great price.

^^This technique works even better with dealerships for used cars.

1) Use multiple email accounts to fake interested and obtain all the information you need
2) lowball the fuck out of them, going back and forth. Pretend to work something out so you can get an idea of their bottom line
3) Stop all communication for a week then go in as "yourself" and offer them a price lower than what you communicated with before lol

As most say, the biggest rule is go in their with a set price, not a dollar more and see if they will work with you.

[murd0c]

and make sure it's always taxes and extra fee's in as well since they will always try to add in extra hidden charges. Go in as a dick like you don't care and this time of year they will cave since its year end and they want that big bonus cheque after Christmas.

[Simplex123]

I'm glad I don't have to deal with you guys for a living :whistle:

[tofu1413]

Brutal.




You guys really don't make my life any easier with those "advice"

[brrrz]

How to get the best 'deal' from someone who is in the business.
1. Don't be an asshole. Be a nice person. I will always give a better price to someone who hasn't been an asshole through the whole process. If you show me that you are truly interested in my vehicle and you don't dick me around like many of the people suggest here I will actually go to my manager and tell him that you deserve to have the price you are offering instead of going back and forth and grind 100's of dollars. True story.

2. Don't be an asshole. There are offers then there are low balls. Don't low ball or most likely I will tell you to leave or you will lose all respect and I wont get you the real best price. Best low ball offer I had ever gotten was $39,500 for a truck with a MSRP for $77,724 (lol) told the customer to leave and that I will not even begin to negotiate or bring such a stupid offer to my manager. He came back 3 times with me kicking him out each time. End of that story was we had the only one from here to Manitoba which I knew and he wanted this specific one and this one only. He didn't get a very good deal...at all. 2 weeks earlier I sold a similar truck different color for $3,000 less because the customer was realistic with me and I wanted him to get a good deal and be happy.

3. Don't be an asshole. Customer comes in and says "what is your best price" on a used car on our lot. Vehicle is $13,995 we told him we can go $11,800. Good deal was a very good price. Customer agrees and leaves. Customer calls back and says "you know $11,800 is a good price but $11,500 is better (even though we already agreed on price). Told him I wont lose a deal over $300 so we will go $11,500. Next day he calls in "you know I think $11,500 is too much. I need it to be $11,000. Don't do this either. After giving my best price and then agreeing to lower don't try and do it a third time because now I don't even care about the commission and my pride is worth more then to be played with like that.

4. Don't be an asshole. Don't do the old "that includes taxes right?" after you agree on a price and act negligent. We know you know the price doesn't include tax and are trying to squeeze 12% extra off the vehicle after we agreed on price.

5. Don't be an asshole. Coming in with a low offer and saying I cant do anymore then this is not negotiating. At least after I come down $2,000 you can come up a few hundred. If a manager sees the customer is not moving he wont keep going down he will stop and tell me to tell you to leave.

[und3f3at3d]

Brutal.




You guys really don't make my life any easier with those "advice"

LOL of course if the car was at BJ bmw, we would know that you would take care of us and we wouldnt need to use those "advice"

[heleu]

I'm assuming the car is only a few years old.

Look at Canadian Black Book for the value and you will have a pretty good idea what the dealership paid for it. You can negotiate from there.

Black book doesn't work for older and highly sought after vehicles obviously (e.g. 993s, ITRs, NSXs, etc).

[tofu1413]

brrz is right.


if you guys want a deal. don't be an asshole.


(unless if that sales guy was being a snob and an asshole to you, by all means)

[68style]

Haha these guys are the same dudes who go to a charity bake sale and throw a toonie in the jar and then load their plates or bring tupperware to business lunches.

Slow Saturday? Let's see what the food bank has or if there's anything exciting outside a donation bin somewhere.

No shame, no shame.

[RRxtar]

Go to bank
open a LOC for 20k
Withdraw 19.5k from LOC
Walk into dealership on Dec 27, talk to sales guy
offer to sign and drive today, payment is cash
sit down for negotiations with sales guy and sales manager
pull of stacks of $100 and place on table and start "negotiating"
say "look here, I'm buying a car today, you can take my 19.5 or someone else will"
...let the chips fall where they may.


year end sales targets, cold hard cash, usually are enough to get people to bend over and bend some more.
cash doesnt work for dealers anymore. it will work for private sale tho. dealers make money on the financing. they want you to finance thru them.

and also, dealers don't care as much about year end sales targets on used cars either. sales targets on new cars give the dealers incentives from the car maker. used cars are more profit generating and cash flow for the dealer.



i would bring in a print out of comparables, and start your negotiations at the bottom of it and aim to negotiate up to 10% less than their 'sale price' asking price.

for negotiations compare the condition, kms, and options to your list. and depending how their CPO program works, get a 3rd party inspection, and i like to say "so its going to need $X worth of repairs, id be comfortable splitting that, and taking half that value off the price". i always try to be friendly with the dealer, give them your first offer, and then one fair and reasonable counter to their counter offer. dont negotiate back and forth 10 times.

if it still doesnt get it done as a last negotiating tactic, one thing that has worked for me is if the numbers are close but not quite there, stand up and thank them for their time, shake their hand, and as youre walking away, turn around and say something like "you know what?.... id hate to not make a deal happen over a couple hundred bucks. see if your manager will do $xxxxx and we can make this happen today. if not, no worries, i appreciate your time"

[wingies]

Haha these guys are the same dudes who go to a charity bake sale and throw a toonie in the jar and then load their plates or bring tupperware to business lunches.

Slow Saturday? Let's see what the food bank has or if there's anything exciting outside a donation bin somewhere.

No shame, no shame.

Well to be fair, since we are talking about dealerships, they are in it to make money off consumers. Consumers are in it to save as much money as they can and score the best deal, and theres nothing wrong with that. Unless the dealership has some crazy rare car that they have buyers lining up for, usually the consumer has the upper hand since the market probably has a lot of options

OP get a set number in mind and see if they will work with you, and most of all dont be attached to the car and dont be afraid to walk away

[68style]

I get it, but there's a middle ground... And then there's fucking with people's livelihood for no good reason.

[tofu1413]

BE REASONABLE


and DON'T BE AN ASSHOLE.


I had people offer me 20k for 26k cars before.......... and I simply said no. Not even worth a counter offer.

Politely said bye and pointed Mazda next door has cheaper cars. :lawl:

[nsx042003]

BE REASONABLE


and DON'T BE AN ASSHOLE.


I had people offer me 20k for 26k cars before.......... and I simply said no. Not even worth a counter offer.

Politely said bye and pointed Mazda next door has cheaper cars. :lawl:

well I don't know man, that sounds like a reasonable FIRST offer.

I always go in low like that and it has worked wonders, go in with your low ball offers and work your way up, never show your bottom line.

But of course, my definition of a lowball offer isn't something completely lowball, I play with blackbook value a thousand or two and make my offers like that

[tofu1413]

well I don't know man, that sounds like a reasonable FIRST offer.

I always go in low like that and it has worked wonders, go in with your low ball offers and work your way up, never show your bottom line.

But of course, my definition of a lowball offer isn't something completely lowball, I play with blackbook value a thousand or two and make my offers like that

reasonable offer if the thing is a rebuild.

you have to keep in mind, as a dealer, we use blackbook only as a point of reference. we end up paying more than what blackbook calls for on trade to do a deal on a vehicle.

[brrrz]

well I don't know man, that sounds like a reasonable FIRST offer.

I always go in low like that and it has worked wonders, go in with your low ball offers and work your way up, never show your bottom line.

But of course, my definition of a lowball offer isn't something completely lowball, I play with blackbook value a thousand or two and make my offers like that

Depends on the brand and depends on the vehicle too many variables to paint with the same brush. When I worked at Subaru a good discount would be $1,000-$1,500 in most cases. If we are talking about a Touring package Impreza we are talking hundreds of dollars because the mark up isn't there. Since I have moved to Ford some F150 Trucks will have :whistle: in mark up but if you wanted to come in and buy a base focus same story as the Impreza and some cases worse where we don't have money to give away and the deal is in the 0% financing for 84mo.

When looking at book values for vehicles and trying to figure out how much their cost is you need to remember the dealership doesn't just buy a car and put it on the lot there are cost associated with that. For example if we buy a vehicle for $20,000 the dealership has a "Pack" that pack goes into straight into the owners pocket and does not affect how much you can get off the price of the vehicle. Most dealers will have a $500-$800 pack. I know of Chrysler stores that have a $1,500 pack. Just for example lets call this pack $500 so now cost is $20,500. By law every dealership must do a safety inspection to each vehicle which has a cost $150-$200 and if you buy from a reputable dealership they will fix, repair, or replace anything that the vehicle needs and perform an oil change. Some cases the vehicle need new breaks or tires or who knows. If the work bill is too large the vehicle is sent to auction and someone from Kingsway will but it and sell it as "mint". In most cases there will be an added cost of $300-$3,000 after this. Lets call it $1,500 for our example so now our $20,000 car now has a cost of $22,000. This is the cost the salesmen has to work from. Keep in mind the dealership still needs to pull a profit in most cases is a minimum $1,500 above cost not $20,000 cost but the $22,000 cost so now your best outcome is $23,500.

[GS8]

:fulloffuck:

Two reasons I never liked buying a car:

1.) Haggling

2.) Listening to advice like what some people presented in this thread

To me, it sounds like a $4k drop in 6 weeks is quite a bit (if it's true). I'd start with an offer that's another $3k less. They'll probably try to meet you in the middle. Tell them to drop any misc. BS fees as part of the deal if you meet them half way.

I'm glad I only paid straight cash for my cars. Never liked the headaches involved with a car purchase. I bought my last two like they were TVs

:alonehappy:

[Amaru]

Thanks for all the input. Appreciate it.

Not going to use the more elaborate negotiation methods suggested, but some interesting ideas. I don't think it's worth waiting weeks or months and calling in favours from friends just to save maybe $500 or $1000.

I will, though, avoid being an asshole... and will be willing to walk away if they won't budge at all on the asking price.

I'm assuming the car is only a few years old.

Look at Canadian Black Book for the value and you will have a pretty good idea what the dealership paid for it. You can negotiate from there.

Cool. Thanks, I'll check Black Book values.

(And yes, the car is a 2011.)

To me, it sounds like a $4k drop in 6 weeks is quite a bit (if it's true). I'd start with an offer that's another $3k less. They'll probably try to meet you in the middle. Tell them to drop any misc. BS fees as part of the deal if you meet them half way.

I'm glad I only paid straight cash for my cars. Never liked the headaches involved with a car purchase. I bought my last two like they were TVs.

Thanks. I think I will basically do what you've suggested here (start by bidding ~$3000 below asking price and hope to meet in the middle).

We'll be paying cash for the car, but I don't think that is an incentive for the dealer. They'd probably rather make some $$ off financing interest haha.

[Tone Loc]

I'm glad I only paid straight cash for my cars. Never liked the headaches involved with a car purchase. I bought my last two like they were TVs

:alonehappy:

This. I paid asking for my TSX because I was watching it on Craigslist and their dealer site and noticed the price steadily dropped from about $24k to $18.8. Personally, I hate haggling with businesses, if I wanted to haggle I'd buy a car off Craigslist lol. Nothing I hate more than wasting a perfectly nice Saturday afternoon indoors, having a dick measuring contest with a salesperson and their manager, which typically end in walking away empty handed, wondering if you lost a perfectly nice, perfectly optioned out car for the difference of a couple of hundred bucks.

Last time my parents spent time "haggling" for a car they spent 2 consecutive entire days at Middlegate Honda getting $2k off their new (at the time) 2003 CR-V. I was 13, and it didn't make a whole lot of sense to me then considering they were definitely able to afford the car, and it wasn't worth the time driving back and forth, the stress, the time, and effort. It still doesn't now.

That being said, the car did have some issues that I was able to "negotiate" to have fixed before I took delivery. 94k km sparkplug service, brand new belts, brand new all-weather mats, door visors, door guards, and professional body repair of a 2-inch long scratch on the passenger door... as well as a signed "lifetime" powertrain warranty.

Reading this thread makes me very glad I don't sell cars. And I thought people who aggressively tried to bribe me to let them into the PNE for cash were bad...

[StylinRed]

5. Don't be an asshole. Coming in with a low offer and saying I cant do anymore then this is not negotiating. At least after I come down $2,000 you can come up a few hundred. If a manager sees the customer is not moving he wont keep going down he will stop and tell me to tell you to leave.

My cousin enjoys negotiating for a whole day or more with a salesperson to negotiate all elements of a sale, no thanks

For me I prefer going in with my best offer, and it's a take it or leave it situation, granted I won't always get the deal as the opposition thinks that it's still a negotiation. Even though I make it clear in all our previous discussions, emails, phone calls, and again when we meet face to face, that it's not. But it ends up saving me a hell of a lot of time in my day

[SSM_DC5]

...

[CL typeS]

BE REASONABLE


and DON'T BE AN ASSHOLE.


I had people offer me 20k for 26k cars before.......... and I simply said no. Not even worth a counter offer.

Politely said bye and pointed Mazda next door has cheaper cars. :lawl:

Whats generally a reasonable amount to start off with? Since its a used car, dealers usually make significantly more money from it and there is much more room for them to discount than a new car.

I was looking at a TSX for $20k and I offered $18k (10% down from asking) and the dealer said they could only do $500 off after talking to their general sales manager to grant this "exceptional" discount. Needless to say I moved on since they were even willing to give a reasonable counter.

I guess alot of it goes into the negative stigma of being a car salesman. I would say the vast majority of consumers would probably agree that car salesman are not trustworthy lol

[tofu1413]

10% off msrp is reasonable. But... Some people expect 6k off on a 26k car.. Ain't gonna happen lol.


You guys really have to see it from our POV when it comes to costs and etc.

[nsx042003]

Depends on the brand and depends on the vehicle too many variables to paint with the same brush. When I worked at Subaru a good discount would be $1,000-$1,500 in most cases. If we are talking about a Touring package Impreza we are talking hundreds of dollars because the mark up isn't there. Since I have moved to Ford some F150 Trucks will have :whistle: in mark up but if you wanted to come in and buy a base focus same story as the Impreza and some cases worse where we don't have money to give away and the deal is in the 0% financing for 84mo.

When looking at book values for vehicles and trying to figure out how much their cost is you need to remember the dealership doesn't just buy a car and put it on the lot there are cost associated with that. For example if we buy a vehicle for $20,000 the dealership has a "Pack" that pack goes into straight into the owners pocket and does not affect how much you can get off the price of the vehicle. Most dealers will have a $500-$800 pack. I know of Chrysler stores that have a $1,500 pack. Just for example lets call this pack $500 so now cost is $20,500. By law every dealership must do a safety inspection to each vehicle which has a cost $150-$200 and if you buy from a reputable dealership they will fix, repair, or replace anything that the vehicle needs and perform an oil change. Some cases the vehicle need new breaks or tires or who knows. If the work bill is too large the vehicle is sent to auction and someone from Kingsway will but it and sell it as "mint". In most cases there will be an added cost of $300-$3,000 after this. Lets call it $1,500 for our example so now our $20,000 car now has a cost of $22,000. This is the cost the salesmen has to work from. Keep in mind the dealership still needs to pull a profit in most cases is a minimum $1,500 above cost not $20,000 cost but the $22,000 cost so now your best outcome is $23,500.

Oh I wholeheartedly understand it, which is why I use the highend of the blackbook value plus 2 to 3k as my bottomline or (highest amount i'm willing to pay).Then my first offer would be a few grand lower than what i want to pay because dealer will never give me that and meet me in the middle. And most of the time I win on vehicles that they have sitting for a long time or when it's year end.

[nsx042003]

10% off msrp is reasonable. But... Some people expect 6k off on a 26k car.. Ain't gonna happen lol.


You guys really have to see it from our POV when it comes to costs and etc.

if we are talking about brand new cars, yeah, that's ridiculous, never gonna happen, that's like stealing

[Lowered_Klass]

Honestly. I feel for most people in car sales. It's a tough gig from what I've heard from friends and others.

I've always looked at it like a two way street. The person you're dealing with isn't the owner of the dealership, they're just trying to do their job. It's safe to say they WANT you to buy the vehicle (obviously), and most often times will help you do so... IF you're reasonable and not an asshole (I see a theme here lol). Sales people are gettin' it from both sides. From their manager/boss as well as the customer, that's gotta suck. So I do my best to get them on 'my' side lol.

I've always been honest, and I'm always up front with the salesperson I deal with. The best deals I've gotten, were from being nice with the salesperson, and not pulling any hardball bullshit. It was amazing how much more willing they were being with me, in order to make a deal.

Having said that, I've had a few sales people that were complete cunts, and really made shopping for a vehicle at that peticular dealer a shitty expierence.

(Tofu and Brrrz, pepper your angus' if I decide to look for a new car. I'll be the kiss-ass that comes to see you ;) lol)

[StylinRed]

Whats generally a reasonable amount to start off with? Since its a used car, dealers usually make significantly more money from it and there is much more room for them to discount than a new car.

I was looking at a TSX for $20k and I offered $18k (10% down from asking) and the dealer said they could only do $500 off after talking to their general sales manager to grant this "exceptional" discount. Needless to say I moved on since they were even willing to give a reasonable counter.

I guess alot of it goes into the negative stigma of being a car salesman. I would say the vast majority of consumers would probably agree that car salesman are not trustworthy lol

I knew someone who used to audit car dealerships, and iirc he said that there isn't a lot of wiggle room on new cars (like single digit percentages) but with used cars there's typically around 10-15% leeway, depending on the vehicle, more on trucks than cars etc.

but i cant remember exactly

[noclue]

I hate all the bullshit that comes with new cars, just adds to the "ripoff" stereotypes of car dealers. $2200 Freight and PDI (not this high in USA though same continent), $300-500 Documentation fee, Nitrogen air, vin etching, paint protection, leather protection, extended warranty. You constantly have to keep saying no while they keep saying why not.

Or them trying to mask factory incentives as a good discount effectively selling you a car at full msrp.

On the other hand, you have all the cheap asses who complain about everything on a used car to get a discount, buy a new one asshole!

At the end of the day, the sales manager is the one with the power.

[Suprarz666]

^I believe freight/pdi, tire, and AC fees are the only mandatory fees, everything else is a upsell.

For new vehicles, I usually use unhaggle to get an invoice price, I heard it was relatively close, sometimes even exact. Obviously you won't get it at the invoice price but it gives you a better idea at the very least.

[Amaru]

I knew someone who used to audit car dealerships, and iirc he said that there isn't a lot of wiggle room on new cars (like single digit percentages) but with used cars there's typically around 10-15% leeway, depending on the vehicle, more on trucks than cars etc.

but i cant remember exactly

I've actually heard that some dealers will break even on new cars just to move them off the lot and get them onto the road. I think this is much more the case with budget brands and models. Dealer can make a few bucks from the occasional oil change or new tires and then hopefully profit more down the road when the car is out of warranty if the car is still in town and the owner is willing to pay dealer prices for repairs and maintenance.

I believe the margins go up with the car's price point (I doubt Porsche are making $2500 on a new 911). Plus, luxury brands don't give no fucks about offering 'deals'.

[AstulzerRZD]

I've actually heard that some dealers will break even on new cars just to move them off the lot and get them onto the road. I think this is much more the case with budget brands and models. Dealer can make a few bucks from the occasional oil change or new tires and then hopefully profit more down the road when the car is out of warranty if the car is still in town and the owner is willing to pay dealer prices for repairs and maintenance.

I believe the margins go up with the car's price point (I doubt Porsche are making $2500 on a new 911). Plus, luxury brands don't give no fucks about offering 'deals'.

+1, and manufacturers have super hefty bonuses to dealers who move volume

[brrrz]

What's in the safety inspection?

Essentially making sure the car isn't junk seeing how much breaks and tires are left. There are legal limits the vehicle must meet for a dealership to sell it

[SSM_DC5]

...

[Amaru]

In case anyone was curious (you weren't, I know, but whatever)....

We didn't end up buying the Lexus after all. After a second long test drive, we decided it wasn't worth the asking price (or anywhere close to it).

We ended up with an Acura instead. It just arrived on a local used car lot (a reputable one, not "Happy Motors") and they were asking $31,900... I offered $28,000.... went back and forth a few times and settled on $29,500.

Probably could've got another $500-$1000 off if I'd really been willing to play hardball, but we were desperate for a vehicle and this RDX was absolutely perfect (much, much better value than the Lexus).

Anyway, thanks all for advicing me on negotiating. :buttrock:

[Xu.Vi]

Little bit off topic but hoping someone can chime in. I may be looking to straight up sell my vehicle to a dealership for cash. Would there be any incentive for them to even buy it if i'm not looking for trading in? If I do see a car that I like in the trade and is CHEAPER than the one I currently own by $4,500~ (according to CBB), how much would the dealership consider giving me?

Thanks