[Lomac]

TL;DR Version: Local townhouse board does all their meetings in Mandarin, with no verbal English translations. Read highlighted sections for more info.

Andreas Kargut, a townhouse owner in Richmond, B.C., was shocked with the reply he got when he and a neighbour emailed their condo board this month asking to attend their next meeting.

The board president replied they were welcome to attend as observers.

“However, please understand the council team for this fiscal is using Mandarin as the preferred language for communication,” he went on.

“Therefore we have no intention of using English during the meeting on Dec. 8. That’s the most efficient way for the team this year.”

Kargut , one of the original owners in the 54-unit Wellington Court complex, built in 2004, said he felt discriminated against and filed a complaint with the B.C. Human Rights Tribunal.

“This isn’t like a social club. It’s a legal entity. And the legal language in Canada is English and French,” he said Tuesday.

Reached by phone, Ed Mao, the condo board president, confirmed the proceedings were conducted in Mandarin. However, he said all official documents, including contracts and minutes, are written in English.

He disputed the assertion the board was being racist or discriminatory.

“We’re a bunch of people trying to make (the board) work. We are new and have learning to overcome,” he said. “What has happened in the past was not working, that’s why lots of change happened.”

The squabble is the latest example of community tensions that have arisen in the wake of a huge demographic shakeup in the suburb south of Vancouver. More than half the population is ethnic Chinese.

The city recently posted a job opening for an inspector whose job would be to encourage businesses to comply with bylaws requiring signs to contain at least 50 per cent English.

This requires someone with an “ability to perform under pressure and deal with contentious and challenging situations in a diplomatic manner,” the posting said.

Kargut said there had never been problems with the condo board until last year when most non-Chinese speaking members were ejected after one owner gathered a large number of proxy votes.

He added he also became alarmed because the board only met a few times in the last fiscal year and cut ties in July with its long-time property manager, FirstService Residential.

Kargut said when he showed up on Dec. 8, the entire 1½-hour board meeting, which he says he recorded, was conducted in Mandarin, a language he does not speak.

When the board members reached the end of the meeting, they asked Kargut if he wished to ask any questions.

Kargut said he replied no.

“Where do you start? They were all leaving. How can you question when they’ve been talking a whole hour and a half (in Chinese)?” he said.

The human rights complaint, which Kargut says he filed for about 10 owners, asks that all meetings be carried out in English and a special meeting be held to elect a new council with each homeowner entitled to only one proxy.

It also asks for a “written apology from the (condo board) describing their conduct as discriminatory.”

“We are going to ask for financial retribution due to significant emotional distress.”

Officials at AA Property Management, the complex’s new property manager, declined to comment.

Tony Gioventu, executive director of the Condominium Homeowners’ Association, told the Richmond News a few language problems have arisen in the suburb over the years that were resolved with English-to-Mandarin translation being provided but not the other way around.

A spokeman for the provincial housing ministry told the Richmond News the Strata Property Act does not specify what language condo board meetings should be conducted in.

English speaking B.C. condo owner files human rights complaint after board holds meetings in Mandarin | National Post (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/english-speaking-b-c-condo-owner-files-human-rights-complaint-after-board-holds-meetings-in-mandarin)

Vaguely surprised something like this hasn't come out into the light earlier, to be honest.

[yray]

And now you know why china has communism :troll:

[Soundy]

Richmond be crazy.

In before all the signs are changed to Mandarin-only :troll:

[Traum]

The national post article is written with a more neutral tone towards the matter. This Richmond News article presents the matter in a more inflammatory way, and provides more supporting reason for doing so:

Chinese-only strata council prompts human rights complaint (http://www.richmond-news.com/news/chinese-only-strata-council-prompts-human-rights-complaint-1.2137818)


A group of Richmond homeowners has filed a complaint with the BC Human Rights Tribunal after allegedly being discriminated against by a new Chinese-speaking strata council.

Andreas Kargut, who filed the claim on behalf of several other Wellington Court strata members, told the Richmond News a group of Mandarin-speaking homeowners purposefully voted out non-Mandarin speaking members from council.

Since then, the new council has moved to conduct all official business, including council meetings, in Mandarin.

“Anyone they deemed who was non-Mandarin speaking, they ousted,” said Kargut.

Wellington Court is a 54-unit townhouse development on Heather Street near Garden City Park.

“For the most part, it was a very harmonious place to live,” said Kargut.

The new council was largely formed in 2014 after one Chinese member gathered a large number of proxy ballots to vote out the non-Mandarin speaking council members, contended Kargut.

A recent email to Kargut from the new strata president, Ed Mao, states: “We have no intention of using English during the meeting on December the 8th. That’s the most efficient way for the team this year.”

Mao could not be reached for comment.

Kargut said some strata members took issue with a paint job that had cost overruns following the discovery of some rotting wood beams in need of replacement.

He said the members started rumours that the non-Mandarin speakers were stealing from the contingency fund.

The present council also fired its long-time property manager, First Service Residential (via Colliers in a portfolio acquisition), with 37 proxy ballots this summer.

“So now we have an all-Manadarin speaking council that fired our property manager and brought on another company.

“I think they were searching for a property manager that was cheaper,” said Kargut, who attended the last meeting as an observer.

“I wanted to see if they had the nerve to go ahead with (Mandarin only),” he said.

“At the end, he asked if I had any questions, but how was I supposed to ask any questions when I couldn’t understand what was going on for the past hour and a half?” noted Kargut.

Prior to the alleged discriminatory takeover, the past council had offered official interpretation services for Mandarin speakers. Wellington Court also already featured several bilingual outdoor signs.

Kargut said the new council told him it would hire its own interpreter for English speakers but not an official interpreter. He suspects that decision had to do with costs.

Tony Gioventu, executive director of the Condominium Homeowners’ Association, told the Richmond News he’s never seen a case like this. While he’s seen “three or four” instances in Richmond over the past five years concerning language problems, all of them have been resolved “quickly” with English-to-Mandarin translation services, not the other way around.

There is nothing in the B.C. Strata Property Act that defines what languages can be used in official strata meetings. However, Gioventu noted that official languages apply to legislative procedures and the court systems.

“The big question is whether that would extend to a strata corporation because it is bound by provincial legislation,” said Gioventu.

The News asked the Ministry Responsible for Housing for legal clarification.

“The Strata Property Act does not specify what language strata meetings should be conducted in or require interpretation services. A strata corporation may wish to get advice from a lawyer on how best to meet the various language preferences of its owners,” the Ministry said, via email.

“It’s a human rights issue in any case because English and French are our official languages and these individuals are not capable of communicating for the business of their strata underneath provincial legislation. So that’s what opens the door,” added Gioventu.

He said the problem in Richmond may lie in the extreme concentration of Mandarin speakers in the city.

“I don’t know what the solution is.

“I go to some communities where everyone speaks Punjabi, and there’s only one person who doesn’t speak Punjabi, and they’re very respectful and conduct their business in English. But, even there, there have been some serious misunderstandings about how the law applies as a result of the interpretations,” noted Gioventu, who believes it is imperative to have official translation services.

Presently, strata fees are under $200 per month, Kargut said, but the fear amongst the outcast members is that the property will not be maintained properly.

Kargut points to a cement slab at the sidewalk entrance to one of the homes that has recently been raised. It poses a tripping hazard to visitors and is on common property.

“We’d usually have that fixed in no time, but it’s just sitting there now,” he said.

Gioventu said immigrants from densely populated cities tend not to understand the concept of common property and its required maintenance.

“It’s not just a Chinese thing.

“One of the challenges we have seen is there’s a sense of basically running your building to failure. You use it as best you can, and then you sell it off because land is in such high demand,” he said.

The complaint has yet to be considered by the Tribunal.

[PiuYi]

First off, the national post article is wrong in that this guy is not an original owner of the condo unit because I was the previous owner of that condo and this guy bought my unit just earlier this year

but anyway, input I wanted to make was that the previous board WAS in fact very corrupt and I would not be surprised at all to learn they were stealing from the contingency fund

personally I thought the newly formed council was doing a great job, I never attended a meeting and I don't speak Mandarin but they let go of the previous property manager, who wanted us to keep the place in absolute perfect condition (we suspect to keep our property values up and their own portfolio value up) despite maintenance not necessarily being required

[68style]

There's 2 sides to every story... I'm sure there's something not right there, but for all we know this dude making the claims is a total nut job himself... Wait until all the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.......


*Waiting for someone to post jump to conclusions mat pic from Office Space*

[Jmac]

http://i.imgur.com/2wAz8I4.png

[ImportPsycho]

BS
There is no way strata meeting was in Mandarin.

because Chinese owners do not attend strata meeting.

[StylinRed]

saw it on the news today, the strata president refused to comment to the news

non mandarin speaking owners were allowed to attend the meeting, but other than a greeting, in english, upon entry, the meetings were held in mandarin

this is according to two separate owners

unbelievable... at least one owner has brought the matter to the human rights tribunal, no doubt he'll win, but will it change anything...

[asian_XL]

should sell Richmond to China and bomb all the bridges for god's sake

[J____]

There's 2 sides to every story... I'm sure there's something not right there, but for all we know this dude making the claims is a total nut job himself... Wait until all the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.......


*Waiting for someone to post jump to conclusions mat pic from Office Space*

I'm Chinese and i think this is pretty ridiculous that the strata meeting was in Mandarin. This is after all canada, if they can't understand english then don't attend or learn the language. At most offer bilingual meetings. You don't see strata meetings in Surrey held in punjabi only. Regardless if the previous council was corrupt, the official language is english in canada. Not Chinese.

[Gnomes]

$200 strata fee for a townhouse built in 2004 is very low... I guess people would let the place run with minimum preventive maintenance

[scottsman]

A lot of people in Vancouver, Richmond, etc... that have a high amount of Chinese/HK people in their area would be doing themselves a favor if they learned more about the culture, language etc... that is coming into their neighborhoods. I
am not saying that they are right for speaking Mandarin in these meetings, this is flat out wrong unless it is a private group that you willingly join. Many people who are first generation or even early second generation Canadian could learn a lot from the way things are done in Asia and apply it to actually benefit from the large Asian population currently in the Lower Mainland which will surely continue to grow.

[Hondaracer]

BS
There is no way strata meeting was in Mandarin.

because Chinese owners do not attend strata meeting.

Sure they do, to veto any increase in strata fees and try to vote down improvements which costs $$$ lol :troll:

[Soundy]

non mandarin speaking owners were allowed to attend the meeting, but other than a greeting, in english, upon entry, the meetings were held in mandarin

this is according to two separate owners

That's exactly what the one guy said - he went to the meeting, sat through it all, but had no idea what was going on because he couldn't understand a word of it.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Is not just the old Chinese that don't bother to learn English even university or international students as well. So many times I ran into Chinese who look like no more than 30 and doesn't speak English. If you are not retired make an effort to at least learn the basic of English. I don't bother speaking Chinese if they ask me anything instead I answer in English.

Don't like to learn English, either learn that not everyone around you will speak Chinese or go back to where you come from.

[Soundy]

Is not just the old Chinese that don't bother to learn English even university or international students as well. So many times I ran into Chinese who look like no more than 30 and doesn't speak English. If you are not retired make an effort to at least learn the basic of English. I don't bother speaking Chinese if they ask me anything instead I answer in English.

Don't like to learn English, either learn that not everyone around you will speak Chinese or go back to where you come from.

Could someone translate this into English please? :whistle:

[6o4__boi]

I'll make it plain and simple

I fucking hate people who don't bother to learn a lick of English in Canada.
No reason you give is defensible unless you're fucking mute, retarded, deaf or all of those
This isn't your fucking country. Get over yourself and learn some fucking English you cunt. It's not that hard.
You're getting sheltered from whatever shit place you came from so the least you can fucking do is learn the language and use it.

[fliptuner]

Canada opened it doors to you - have some fucking respect.

[und3f3at3d]

As much as I agree with all you about how people who come to Canada should learn some fucking english, our government is way too pussy to enforce these laws or whatever. We are so "tolerant" of other people's cultures, traditions or whatever that Canada has stopped growing, improving, and lost their identity altogether

[Mr.HappySilp]

As much as I agree with all you about how people who come to Canada should learn some fucking english, our government is way too pussy to enforce these laws or whatever. We are so "tolerant" of other people's cultures, traditions or whatever that Canada has stopped growing, improving, and lost their identity altogether

Or rather the gov is too pussy to drive these rich foreign people away if they enforce any English requirement.

[GLOW]

Mao could not be reached for comment.

probably b/c they tried to reach him in english :troll: :pokerface:

[Carl Johnson]

I'll make it plain and simple

I fucking hate people who don't bother to learn a lick of English in Canada.
No reason you give is defensible unless you're fucking mute, retarded, deaf or all of those
This isn't your fucking country. Get over yourself and learn some fucking English you cunt. It's not that hard.
You're getting sheltered from whatever shit place you came from so the least you can fucking do is learn the language and use it.

You come off as someone who is grossly patronizing, almost xenophobia, by your swearing and cursing. By the many "thanks" condoning your post, it obviously shows the demographic and education level of this forum.

Now, you say this isn't their "country", but is this country yours? Wasn't the land we are all occupying now belonged to the Indigenous people? Did we really respect those people's culture, language, and property rights and not treat those people with any discrimination?

Here is a quote from Wikipedia on Duncan Campbell Scott who was the guy running the Department of Indian Affairs for almost 20 years:

"In 1920, under Scott's direction, and with the concurrence of the major religions involved in native education, an amendment to the Indian Act made it mandatory for all native children between the ages of seven and fifteen to attend school. Attendance at a residential school was made compulsory. Although a reading of Bill 14 states that no particular kind of school was stipulated. Scott was in favour of residential schooling for aboriginal children, as he believed removing them from the influences of home and reserve would hasten the cultural and economic transformation of the whole aboriginal population. In cases where a residential school was the only kind available, residential enrollment did become mandatory, and aboriginal children were compelled to leave their homes, their families and their culture, with or without their parents' consent. However, in 1901, 226 of the 290 Indian schools across Canada were day schools, and by 1961, the 377 day schools far outnumbered the 56 residential institutions."

I guess it is okay for a white man treat others with disdain but not the other around for the Chinese now. By the way, I am not in agreement with all the improper decorum displayed by the Chinese in case you are wondering. However, the saying "what goes around, comes around" comes to my mind.

[fliptuner]

^^^ I hope you realize that he's Chinese and most of the people that agree with his sentiment either weren't born here or are children of immigrants. Immigrants that for the most part, didn't take for granted that they were allowed into this country and given the opportunity for a better future for themselves and their children. In return and out of appreciation for that opportunity, the least they could do is live harmoniously with the people who were already here, by being able to communicate with them in the acceptable language.

I agree that it isn't their country not because we don't accept them...... because they don't accept us.

[Traum]

Without knowing the full story (or at least a fuller story), the only definitive thing I can say is -- the stupid strata council literally brought this trouble onto themselves. The English speaking dude clearly (or at least, likely) had a bone to pick when he went to sit in on the strata council meeting. Had the council members been smarter, they would have realized this and offered to translate the conversations to him in English. This would have shut him up and not give him an excuse to file that complaint to the Human Rights Tribunal.

As the matter currently stands, I don't really see any reason why the English speaking dude would not win the complaint. When the results come back, the tribunal could order the strata council to do anything between simply providing a translator for anyone wishing to listen in on the Mandarin council meeting, to requiring the council meeting to be conducted in English. The strata council is the one that has everything to lose and nothing to gain by being so stupid arrogant.

[Jmac]

You come off as someone who is grossly patronizing, almost xenophobia, by your swearing and cursing. By the many "thanks" condoning your post, it obviously shows the demographic and education level of this forum.

Now, you say this isn't their "country", but is this country yours? Wasn't the land we are all occupying now belonged to the Indigenous people? Did we really respect those people's culture, language, and property rights and not treat those people with any discrimination?

Here is a quote from Wikipedia on Duncan Campbell Scott who was the guy running the Department of Indian Affairs for almost 20 years:

"In 1920, under Scott's direction, and with the concurrence of the major religions involved in native education, an amendment to the Indian Act made it mandatory for all native children between the ages of seven and fifteen to attend school. Attendance at a residential school was made compulsory. Although a reading of Bill 14 states that no particular kind of school was stipulated. Scott was in favour of residential schooling for aboriginal children, as he believed removing them from the influences of home and reserve would hasten the cultural and economic transformation of the whole aboriginal population. In cases where a residential school was the only kind available, residential enrollment did become mandatory, and aboriginal children were compelled to leave their homes, their families and their culture, with or without their parents' consent. However, in 1901, 226 of the 290 Indian schools across Canada were day schools, and by 1961, the 377 day schools far outnumbered the 56 residential institutions."

I guess it is okay for a white man treat others with disdain but not the other around for the Chinese now. By the way, I am not in agreement with all the improper decorum displayed by the Chinese in case you are wondering. However, the saying "what goes around, comes around" comes to my mind.
In addition to what flip said, in what way is the residential school issue of 100 years ago remotely relevant?

Is anyone saying they can't speak Mandarin? That Canada should systemically eliminate their culture?

No, they're saying that they should speak English (or English and Mandarin) at a strata council meeting so that strata members who only speak the predominantly official language of Canada can actually understand what is happening with the property that they, you know, own.

[FerrariEnzo]

So.. Mao thinks that having a meeting in chinese to discuss financial meetings of the strata is fine and leaving non-chinese speaking people out of the loop is Not Discriminating.... WTF is he smoking.... If I was paying strata fee, I Would want to know where my money is going... if they are going to cut budget, then Im going to pay less...

[yray]

Canada should be speaking cantonese right? the chinese essentially built the railway connecting the nation.

http://www.researchvit.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/1881-Railway.jpg

[CivicBlues]

Canada should be speaking cantonese right? the chinese essentially built the railway connecting the nation.

http://www.researchvit.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/1881-Railway.jpg

Well, if you want to be technical we should all be speaking Toisan, since that was the dialect most of the Chinese immigrants at the time spoke.

But hilarious the Strata guy is named Mao..."overthrowing" previous strata members

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/ac/ac089a9a251dfba1b2532d81d25b8539dd7a0cc306e94ba966 9bc22ff9b55ccb.jpg

[radioman]

Sounds like my strata in Burnaby.

Every notice has dual language for english/chinese. But the english part is maybe 3-4 sentences and the chinese part takes over the rest of that page.

Not sure if missing information or chinese font too big :troll:

[Lomac]

^^^ I hope you realize that he's Chinese and most of the people that agree with his sentiment either weren't born here or are children of immigrants. Immigrants that for the most part, didn't take for granted that they were allowed into this country and given the opportunity for a better future for themselves and their children. In return and out of appreciation for that opportunity, the least they could do is live harmoniously with the people who were already here, by being able to communicate with them in the acceptable language.

I agree that it isn't their country not because we don't accept them...... because they don't accept us.

This...

In addition to what flip said, in what way is the residential school issue of 100 years ago remotely relevant?

Is anyone saying they can't speak Mandarin? That Canada should systemically eliminate their culture?

No, they're saying that they should speak English (or English and Mandarin) at a strata council meeting so that strata members who only speak the predominantly official language of Canada can actually understand what is happening with the property that they, you know, own.

...and this.

It's kinda funny when people claim someone is being racist or xenophobic when the person being charged with it is, in fact, of the same race they are making fun of. A large portion of members on this website are either immigrants or the children of immigrants. Hell, I'm white and even I'm technically a first generation Canadian. I've made fun of my (other white) family members when the first came to Canada because they didn't speak English, despite the fact that they had ample opportunity to learn it in Europe.

You come off as someone who is grossly patronizing, almost xenophobia, by your swearing and cursing. By the many "thanks" condoning your post, it obviously shows the demographic and education level of this forum.

Now, you say this isn't their "country", but is this country yours? Wasn't the land we are all occupying now belonged to the Indigenous people? Did we really respect those people's culture, language, and property rights and not treat those people with any discrimination?

Here is a quote from Wikipedia on Duncan Campbell Scott who was the guy running the Department of Indian Affairs for almost 20 years:

"In 1920, under Scott's direction, and with the concurrence of the major religions involved in native education, an amendment to the Indian Act made it mandatory for all native children between the ages of seven and fifteen to attend school. Attendance at a residential school was made compulsory. Although a reading of Bill 14 states that no particular kind of school was stipulated. Scott was in favour of residential schooling for aboriginal children, as he believed removing them from the influences of home and reserve would hasten the cultural and economic transformation of the whole aboriginal population. In cases where a residential school was the only kind available, residential enrollment did become mandatory, and aboriginal children were compelled to leave their homes, their families and their culture, with or without their parents' consent. However, in 1901, 226 of the 290 Indian schools across Canada were day schools, and by 1961, the 377 day schools far outnumbered the 56 residential institutions."

I guess it is okay for a white man treat others with disdain but not the other around for the Chinese now. By the way, I am not in agreement with all the improper decorum displayed by the Chinese in case you are wondering. However, the saying "what goes around, comes around" comes to my mind.

So, as a German descendent, I should be apologizing for WW1, WW2 and the Holocaust? Should I also be apologizing for VW's diesel mishap?

Or, as someone of Jewish descent, should I be apologizing for crucifying Jesus?

[SumAznGuy]

Should I also be apologizing for VW's diesel mishap??

Apology accepted but I still want $$$$ for loss of value. :badpokerface:

Working for a company that employs a lot of chinese speaking people, all our meetings are held in english, well some form of english.

I side with the strata. My ears are bleeding. Make it stop. :alonehappy:

[jing]

Mao, huh? Sounds a lot like this guy.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Mao_Zedong_portrait.jpg

[fliptuner]

So, as a German descendent, I should be apologizing for WW1, WW2 and the Holocaust? Should I also be apologizing for VW's diesel mishap?

Yes and don't even think of living in a house with a fireplace.

[Lomac]

Yes and don't even think of living in a house with a fireplace.

How about a shower? :p

[GLOW]

So, as a German descendent, I should be apologizing for WW1, WW2 and the Holocaust? Should I also be apologizing for VW's diesel mishap?


we'll accept the apology if german pr0n stars to follow this route :troll: :ilied:

Japanese P*rn Star Offers to Have Sex with Chinese Students to Make Up for 1937 Invasion | BroBible (http://brobible.com/life/article/13158847-japanese-porn-star-offers-have-sex-chinese-students-make-1937-inva/)

[Sid Vicious]

dribble

and cue the PC brigade

pretty soon no discussion which remotely involves race, gender or orientation will be allowed due to people getting accused of racism, homophobia or whatever

and of course manic liked this post LMAO, we should create a forum designated safe space for you guys

[GLOW]

Canada should be speaking cantonese right? the chinese essentially built the railway connecting the nation.

http://www.researchvit.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/1881-Railway.jpg

am i the only one that had this come to mind in the above pic?

http://remycarreiro.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/42-22760823.jpg

[fliptuner]

How about a shower? :p

Would it be heated with gas?

[Mr.HappySilp]

One of the tech support was complaining that yesterday a person in his mid 20s (at least he sound pretty young over the phone) couldn't understand a simple troubleshooting step (he was ask to unplug the power to his router and plug it back in after 15seconds). Anyways he complains he can't understand and keep saying no english chinese only. He was getting nowhere and said Your company sucks and hung up. I call him back give him instructions in Chinese. Afterwards explain kindly to him this is Canada and the English is the primary language so we might not have Chinese speaking staff on all the time. He flip out and said Chinese is more important than English and we should hire people who can speaks Chinese first @@

[Lomac]

Should have started speaking French to him to really piss him off. :lol

[Soundy]

He flip out and said Chinese is more important than English and we should hire people who can speaks Chinese first @@

Should have started speaking French to him to really piss him off. :lol
Better yet, if he speaks Mandarin, have someone start yapping at him in Cantonese and then get pissed back at him for speaking the wrong kind of Chinese :yuno:

[punkwax]

One of the tech support was complaining that yesterday a person in his mid 20s (at least he sound pretty young over the phone) couldn't understand a simple troubleshooting step (he was ask to unplug the power to his router and plug it back in after 15seconds). Anyways he complains he can't understand and keep saying no english chinese only. He was getting nowhere and said Your company sucks and hung up. I call him back give him instructions in Chinese. Afterwards explain kindly to him this is Canada and the English is the primary language so we might not have Chinese speaking staff on all the time. He flip out and said Chinese is more important than English and we should hire people who can speaks Chinese first @@

Ya well.. some people are just idiots. Plain and simple. I've met idiots of all different colour. I've also met awesome people of all different colour.

I don't have a problem with race, I have a problem with stupidity. Having a strata in Richmond, BC, Canada that does not accommodate English speaking members of the strata is stupid.

[Soundy]

The new council was largely formed in 2014 after one Chinese member gathered a large number of proxy ballots to vote out the non-Mandarin speaking council members, contended Kargut.

I'm kinda surprised more attention isn't being given to this part of it. This may be "legal" but it sure smells hinky. I've previously been on a strata council for a complex that had several Asian/ESL owners - most of them never attended the AGM and those who did never spoke up... probably similar to the English-speaking guy in this case, not really able to follow or understand what was going on.

So imagine this one Mandarin-speaking person goes around to all the other Chinese owners, who really don't and CAN'T follow what's going on with council... feeds them just about any kind of BS to get their proxy votes - how terrible the current council is, how money is being wasted, etc. or even BSing them outright as to what they're signing over - and then hits up the meeting and makes his power play.

I doubt anyone here would have a hard time believing this could have happened... all proper and legal.

[MeowMeow]

My strata had some what similar issue years back where all the white strata councils either quit or got voted out. It wasnt because of language barrier though, it was about some roof job issue. According to the strata notice, there were some nasty verbal attacks involved as well. Thankfully all the new and old Chinese strata members speak fluent English, they still send notices in both perfect English + Mandarin, and they are doing a great job maintaining our complex and listening to concerns. But it is quite sad how some of the non-Chinese members decided to move out and our complex became some what hostile after all the fobs that dont even make eye contact moved in. One fob unit (who bought the property for investment) left garbage in their house for weeks after partying which caused a huge mouse infestation problem >:(

[Mr.HappySilp]

One fob unit (who bought the property for investment) left garbage in their house for weeks after partying which caused a huge mouse infestation problem >:(

Was a international student that live in it?

[Traum]

So, the saga (gong show) continues... :facepalm:

Richmond man against Mandarin-only council meetings wants official languages law (http://www.vancouversun.com/news/metro/richmond+against+mandarin+only+council+meetings+wa nts/11741527/story.html)

VANCOUVER - A Richmond man who filed a human rights complaint against his townhouse council for conducting Mandarin-only meetings says he wants the law changed to prohibit the use of unofficial languages.

Andreas Kargut lives in a 54-unit townhouse complex in Richmond, where he served on various council positions between 2005 and 2014.

Kargut says he and six other residents filed a complaint with the B.C. Human Rights Tribunal in December because they couldn't participate in a Mandarin-only meeting that lasted 90 minutes.

He says he was vice-president during his last year on the council but was ousted by a group that wanted to conduct meetings only in Chinese.

The respondents of the complaint have until March 23 to decide if they want a settlement meeting or they must provide evidence to have the matter dismissed before a hearing date is set if they don't take action.

Kargut says the council has now decided to conduct future meetings in English, but he wants compensation because his rights were violated and he will push the province to change the law on how councils conduct business.

Now people are just gonna say this guy was doing it out of spite because he got ousted from strata, and for personal gains b/c he is asking for compensation.

[GLOW]

had to ask for compensation...
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0a3fg-fUWdw/T3On8vGgmVI/AAAAAAAAA4A/PJg-1gRMH5Y/s1600/bunk-the-wire.gif

[Traum]

If anyone cares... the gong show is apparently still on:

Richmond strata meetings revert back to Chinese language only | Vancouver Sun (http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/richmond-townhouse-strata-meetings-revert-back-to-chinese-language-only-amid-human-rights-dispute)


Richmond townhouse strata meetings revert back to Chinese-language-only amid human rights dispute

Published on: September 2, 2016 | Last Updated: September 2, 2016 1:29 PM PDT

A Richmond homeowner who launched a human rights complaint over the controversial Mandarin-only strata meetings held at his townhouse complex says council has reverted back to Chinese after a brief stint with a translator.

Andreas Kargut also claims he is being harassed by members of council, and feels like he is being pressured to leave his home.

Kargut and six other residents filed a class-action complaint with the B.C. Human Rights Tribunal in December because they couldn’t participate in a 90-minute meeting where only Mandarin was spoken at their 54-unit townhouse complex. They claim they are being discriminated against by the new strata council elected in the summer of 2015.

Lawyers and residents held a pre-settlement meeting in July, and although Kargut said he cannot disclose details of that meeting, he believed the matter may have been resolved.

Three subsequent meetings were held in English with a Mandarin translator, he said, following the human rights complaint and intervention from local MLA Linda Reid.


Then, Kargut claims that a notice was posted in the mailroom on July 27 saying that a settlement had been reached before any members of the human rights complaint had signed.

“The language (in the notice) was highly inflammatory,” he said, adding that it informed residents that while the dispute was settled it was going to cost everyone money.

At the Strata AGM last month, Kargut said members voted to overturn the use of a translator and revert back to Chinese-language-only meetings.

Since then, Kargut claims he has been harassed in a message posted to his Go Fund Me site, which he started to help raise funds for his legal defence. In one message, the person claims Kargut and the other residents bullied the non-English speaking owners.

Kargut said he was vice-president during his last year on the council but was ousted by a group that wanted to conduct meetings only in the Chinese language.

With the human rights complaint, he is hoping to have laws changed so that only French or English can be spoken at council meetings to prevent similar problems elsewhere.

Mary Zhang, president of the Strata council, declined an interview but issued a press statement Friday. She said at the AGM six owners held 25 proxies, and all voted independently. She said the majority of owners in the building speak Mandarin as a first language.

“Some members have basic English skills, but that does not mean they understand complex English or feel comfortable with language at the speed of a typical conversation,” she said, in the statement.

When the new council took over last year, she said they were more comfortable speaking in Mandarin.

She said the previous councils conducted meeting solely in English for more than a decade without any accommodation for the owners who do not speak English, and that Mandarin-speaking owners were excluded from understanding how the previous council was managing the Strata.

She said Kargut wants to have all meetings in English even when there are no English-speaking observers present at the meetings, which is “is completely unrealistic and would ignore the identity of this community. ”


From the looks of it, I'd say that at this point, both sides have clearly turned the issue into a highly personal one when it is totally unnecessary to do so. From the Kargut dude, there is no need to insist all strata meetings to be conducted in English if there are no English speaking people there. For the strata, they should have known better than to revert back to speaking Mandarin for the strata meetings when there are English speaking folks around.

FailFish

[320icar]

Fucking idiots. I understand both sides, but being Caucasian I side more with the dude.

[6o4__boi]

All I gots to say is, if you live in a country where you can't be bothered to learn the language. Fuck. You.

edit: oh wait, i said that already.

[sakuma drops]

saw it on the news today, the strata president refused to comment to the news

non mandarin speaking owners were allowed to attend the meeting, but other than a greeting, in english, upon entry, the meetings were held in mandarin

this is according to two separate owners

unbelievable... at least one owner has brought the matter to the human rights tribunal, no doubt he'll win, but will it change anything...



the human rights tribunal was founded so something like headtax will not happen again, irony is that when the minority are the ones not using the the tribunal but this guy.

https://i.sli.mg/jimqHf.png



it's like racism at a whole new level.

[sakuma drops]

Canada opened it doors to you - have some fucking respect.

We have been some of the most respectful and reputable in the community, Richmond has a very low crime rate. Many of us came as investors to better this country for ourselves and others.

Immigrant Investor Venture Capital Pilot Program (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/business/iivc/index.asp)


respect yo


bringing security to strata meeting, and demanding money from your neighbours is Anti-Canadian value. If I own a property in that strata I would sue
just for the fact he bring a security onto private property as a threatening mean.

[Timpo]

We have 35 million people in Canada.

6.5 million Canadians speak language OTHER THAN English or French at home. (That's almost 20%)

Map: Canada's most common non-official languages (http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/map-canada-s-most-common-non-official-languages)
2011 Census of Canada: Topic-based tabulations (http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2011/dp-pd/tbt-tt/Lp-eng.cfm?LANG=E&APATH=3&DETAIL=0&DIM=0&FL=A&FREE=0&GC=0&GID=0&GK=0&GRP=1&PID=0&PRID=0&PTYPE=101955&S=0&SHOWALL=0&SUB=0&Temporal=2011&THEME=90&VID=0&VNAMEE=&VNAMEF=)

We do not have a recent (2016) data, but I'm sure Chinese will rise even more.

[sakuma drops]

We have 35 million people in Canada.

6.5 million Canadians speak language OTHER THAN English or French at home. (That's almost 20%)

Map: Canada's most common non-official languages (http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/map-canada-s-most-common-non-official-languages)
2011 Census of Canada: Topic-based tabulations (http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2011/dp-pd/tbt-tt/Lp-eng.cfm?LANG=E&APATH=3&DETAIL=0&DIM=0&FL=A&FREE=0&GC=0&GID=0&GK=0&GRP=1&PID=0&PRID=0&PTYPE=101955&S=0&SHOWALL=0&SUB=0&Temporal=2011&THEME=90&VID=0&VNAMEE=&VNAMEF=)

We do not have a recent (2016) data, but I'm sure Chinese will rise even more.


also I want to point out that many of them are landed immigrants, and not citizens yet, but yet like that flip bitch said "Canada opened the door show respect" WHEN MAYBE not 1 person at the strata meeting can speak English.
So open the door and you punch them in the face? Since when did the young crowd in Canada became so racist. It just piss me off, you rev kids are Anti Canadian value


Fuck you I'm taking a nap

[MG1]

also I want to point out that many of them are landed immigrants, and not citizens yet, but yet like that flip bitch said "Canada opened the door show respect" WHEN MAYBE not 1 person at the strata meeting can speak English.
So open the door and you punch them in the face? Since when did the young crowd in Canada became so racist. It just piss me off, you rev kids are Anti Canadian value


Fuck you I'm taking a nap

Alrighty, then...............

[ae101]

its not the language that piss me off, its the respect

if u have a bunch of chinese that dont understand english, then maybe do chinese and English at the same time so both parties get some respect

[Marshall Placid]

IMHO, from what I've read, this is what I deduced:

-------------------------
1- The Chinese owners can speak a little English.

2- The non-Chinese owners CANNOT speak Mandarin.

------------


Scenario # 1:
By making the meetings conducted only in Mandarin means:


-------------

1- Only the Chinese residents would understand fully.

2 - The non-Chinese residents won't understand a single word being uttered (e.g. nothing).

---------------

So, the non-Chinese basically cannot attend the meetings due to this language barrier.


Scenario 2:
On the other hand, if the meetings were only conducted in English, this means:

-----------

1- The Chinese residents would understand a little, but yet, they do understand a little.

2- The non-Chinese residents would understand the meetings completely.

------------------------



Solution:

If nothing is to be changed, the meetings should be conducted in English, because the Chinese residents know SOME English whereas the non-Chinese knows a single wit of Chinese.

i.e. Scenario # 2 is better than Scenario # 1.


Better solution:

The other major issue is the depth of understanding.

I do realise that a little understanding might not be conducive to effective meetings.

Therefore, the strata should stick with hiring the translator, if it is cost effective.

-------------------------

Stalemate:

What if the translator is too expensive or if the Chinese members balk at the cost of hiring a translator?

After all, from what I've read, there are more Chinese residents than non-Chinese residents, thus in a vote that is for or against hiring a translator, then the Chinese residents would win.

So, what is the next step?

The problem lies in the fact that the non-Chinese residents simply don't understand a single Chinese word being uttered in the meetings; however, the Chinese residents do understand a little or SOME English.

This is the crux of the issue at hand: the amount of comprehension.

Add to this fact is the fact that English is the official language of this great Country.

I do hope that the Chinese residents do have some aspiration to become assimilated outside of their comfort zone.

I do digress.

If all else fails, the meetings should adhere to societal norm that [I think] is practised elsewhere in Vancouver and Canada as a whole:

English as the primary spoken language.

Or, conduct the meetings in Chinese and stick with the translator if the costs are bearable so EVERYBODY can understand.

After all, the non-Chinese residents are okay with the expense.

[kross9]

IMHO, from what I've read, this is what I deduced:

-------------------------
1- The Chinese owners can speak a little English.

2- The non-Chinese owners CANNOT speak Mandarin.

------------


Scenario # 1:
By making the meetings conducted only in Mandarin means:


-------------

1- Only the Chinese residents would understand fully.

2 - The non-Chinese residents won't understand a single word being uttered (e.g. nothing).

---------------

So, the non-Chinese basically cannot attend the meetings due to this language barrier.


Scenario 2:
On the other hand, if the meetings were only conducted in English, this means:

-----------

1- The Chinese residents would understand a little, but yet, they do understand a little.

2- The non-Chinese residents would understand the meetings completely.

------------------------



Solution:

If nothing is to be changed, the meetings should be conducted in English, because the Chinese residents know SOME English whereas the non-Chinese knows a single wit of Chinese.

i.e. Scenario # 2 is better than Scenario # 1.


Better solution:

The other major issue is the depth of understanding.

I do realise that a little understanding might not be conducive to effective meetings.

Therefore, the strata should stick with hiring the translator, if it is cost effective.

-------------------------

Stalemate:

What if the translator is too expensive or if the Chinese members balk at the cost of hiring a translator?

After all, from what I've read, there are more Chinese residents than non-Chinese residents, thus in a vote that is for or against hiring a translator, then the Chinese residents would win.

So, what is the next step?

The problem lies in the fact that the non-Chinese residents simply don't understand a single Chinese word being uttered in the meetings; however, the Chinese residents do understand a little or SOME English.

This is the crux of the issue at hand: the amount of comprehension.

Add to this fact is the fact that English is the official language of this great Country.

I do hope that the Chinese residents do have some aspiration to become assimilated outside of their comfort zone.

I do digress.

If all else fails, the meetings should adhere to societal norm that [I think] is practised elsewhere in Vancouver and Canada as a whole:

English as the primary spoken language.

Or, conduct the meetings in Chinese and stick with the translator if the costs are bearable so EVERYBODY can understand.

After all, the non-Chinese residents are okay with the expense.

This! great post imo

But come to the fact when you go to another place be it country or a new job, you learn their culture. like the language.

for example Germany passed a law for all refugees to learn the language to become a citizen is mandatory...

But what do we get in return for saying something like that? We get called a racist or we are "discriminating" people

If you're old i get it no point learning the language fluently, but if you're younger and LIVE here or plan to live here you should at least put in the effort. imo at least.

[GS8]

also I want to point out that many of them are landed immigrants, and not citizens yet, but yet like that flip bitch said "Canada opened the door show respect" WHEN MAYBE not 1 person at the strata meeting can speak English.
So open the door and you punch them in the face? Since when did the young crowd in Canada became so racist. It just piss me off, you rev kids are Anti Canadian value


Fuck you I'm taking a nap

http://i.imgur.com/LUJnwqa.gif

[Euro7r]

Reminds me of everytime I go to superstore/T&T supermarket, always someone coming up to me to sell me on signing up a credit card, but they approach me speaking in Mandarin. I just put my hand up to their face and don't say a word and walk away.

This is not Asia, English/French should be the formal language of communication in Canada. If they don't want to even attempt to utilize it, I don't even want to listen. There are so many people that show no respect while living here, it's as though they can do whatever they want and expect everyone to abide to them.

[MG1]

^ I think even French is better than hearing shit in Mandarin......... I never thought I'd say French is okay. I understand it more than Mandarin. Plus, it sounds way more sexier, n’est-ce pas?

Mon petite cherie............ rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr..........

[ae101]

thing is if u go most of the ppl that go to TnT are chinese, which is why they speak mostly canto and mando (when they see Chinese)

if a non Chinese shop there, they use english (nothing wrong with TnT)

this whole thing is stupid and full of crap, just get a translator (im sure they get a kid from the townhousecomplex to do it for $50 a night)

it's all about respect

[GLOW]

so are the meeting minutes all in chinese too? if so any resale will most likely have only interest from chinese buyers.

[Manic!]

It's only a matter of time before someone brings out a universal translator and this will be a non issue.

[CorneringArtist]

thing is if u go most of the ppl that go to TnT are chinese, which is why they speak mostly canto and mando (when they see Chinese)

if a non Chinese shop there, they use english (nothing wrong with TnT)

this whole thing is stupid and full of crap, just get a translator (im sure they get a kid from the townhousecomplex to do it for $50 a night)

it's all about respect

Why the fuck can't someone with a passable knowledge of English from within the council translate and save the money on it? Or are they that defensive about conducting Chinese-only meetings that they would rather let this joke keep going as a means of controlling the strata budget?

[Mr.C]

You can take a person out of the BRIC, but you can't take the BRIC out of the person.

[ae101]

Why the fuck can't someone with a passable knowledge of English from within the council translate and save the money on it? Or are they that defensive about conducting Chinese-only meetings that they would rather let this joke keep going as a means of controlling the strata budget?

i guess no one is willing to do it in the strata lol

[Reeyal]

Reminds me of everytime I go to superstore/T&T supermarket, always someone coming up to me to sell me on signing up a credit card, but they approach me speaking in Mandarin. I just put my hand up to their face and don't say a word and walk away.
[...]

Why so rude? They are still people.

[melloman]

Why so rude? They are still people.

Because not everyone that looks Chinese, speaks Mandarin/Canto. Why do you just ignorantly assume someone speaks something? Same shit.

Personally, respect and courtesy have flown out the window with the amount of immigrants that have entered into Canada lately. Both sides of my family at one time were immigrants, and they assimilated without an issue..

What the fuck are the Chinese's problems? :rukidding:

I'll tell you. They think they're better than every other fucking person on Earth. :2finger:

[smoothie.]

For example:

I'm better than melloman.

because hes a gwai lo

[GLOW]

Reminds me of everytime I go to superstore/T&T supermarket, always someone coming up to me to sell me on signing up a credit card, but they approach me speaking in Mandarin. I just put my hand up to their face and don't say a word and walk away.

This is not Asia, English/French should be the formal language of communication in Canada. If they don't want to even attempt to utilize it, I don't even want to listen. There are so many people that show no respect while living here, it's as though they can do whatever they want and expect everyone to abide to them.

:troll: Kappa
seriously though i'm picturing you doing this with sunglasses ala the rock, that would be awesome :lawl:
http://www.angelfire.com/wrestling2/EFedsCappo/images/TheRock/8.jpg

Because not everyone that looks Chinese, speaks Mandarin/Canto. Why do you just ignorantly assume someone speaks something? Same shit.

Personally, respect and courtesy have flown out the window with the amount of immigrants that have entered into Canada lately. Both sides of my family at one time were immigrants, and they assimilated without an issue..

What the fuck are the Chinese's problems? :rukidding:

I'll tell you. They think they're better than every other fucking person on Earth. :2finger:

when i check out at T&T cashier speaks to me in engrish ... should i be offended they assume i don't speak mandarin/canto or should i be pleased they use the language they should be using... sometimes i feel like it's the reverse feeling of getting ID'd at the liquor store :lol :okay:

For example:

I'm better than melloman.

because hes a gwai lo

http://theawesomer.com/photos/2013/05/dead_giveaway_t.jpg

[donk.]

hongcouver is not a decade away, its already here.

[Gee.Tee.Ar]

hongcouver is not a decade away, its already here.

Hongcouver was more than a decade ago...There has been a net negative immigration rate for Hong Konger migrants for a while now.

[parm104]

I never understood why people get offended over language. We're not even talking about offensive language, just plain, foreign language. Am I an anomaly for not getting annoyed when I go to Richmond and see business signs in a foreign language?

Similarly, if I'm in Richmond, I expect to see signs in foreign languages. The demographics of that city is predominately Asian. It makes sense, it works, why not? If a business owner decides to exclude a demographic due to a printed or spoken language barrier, that's his/her own problem. Give your business to someone else.

We are not entitled to be spoken to or have business signs written in English and/or French. There really isn't anything rude about having someone speak to you in a foreign language unless they're doing it systematically to EXCLUDE you. Again, if you don't like it, don't give your hard-earned money to a business like that.

When I worked retail and had a customer come into the store that was ~ above 50 and Punjabi, I would purposely speak Punjabi. Out of the thousands of times I had spoken Punjabi to a customer, I only had ONE person get mad at me for doing it (the day after boxing day - trying to make a return).

Maybe I'm not aware of underlying cultural hostilities amongst the Asian communities so it'll be hard for me to understand. But on the surface, I really don't see why people get so bent out of shape about languages spoken by others. That being said, when it comes to a person's place of residence and being aware of the issues being discussed at open meetings, everyone should be included and exclusive practices like this is likely to rub me the wrong way too.

[underscore]

Why the fuck can't someone with a passable knowledge of English from within the council translate and save the money on it? Or are they that defensive about conducting Chinese-only meetings that they would rather let this joke keep going as a means of controlling the strata budget?

Exactly this. Surely there's at least one person on the strata who is capable of translating between the two languages.

[parm104]

Exactly this. Surely there's at least one person on the strata who is capable of translating between the two languages.

But why bother translating if everyone at the meetings prefers to have the meeting conducted in Mandarin?

"the council voted to use a translator in instances where non-Mandarin speakers were present at meetings, but that council had voted down using a translator at meetings where all in attendance spoke Mandarin."

[melloman]

@parm104:

I do not have a problem with people speaking their language, writing in their language and annexing themselves. My problem comes into play when an immigrant comes here, and wants to conduct his business all in another language and wants US to accommodate him.

Your retail example is a relate-able one. An easy example is: Mandarin only speaker goes to Costco, and demands that someone who speaks Mandarin come and help him because he does not speak English. We don't have to, why can't you go learn simple English so that you can speak our National language? Why must we constantly be accommodating? Just shows the arrogance and disrespect because they don't care to put forth effort to try and even learn to communicate with anyone who speaks English.

Your quote from above is applicable, where they say a translator will be present at the meetings where non-Mandarin speakers are involved. Does that mean that a translator is hired for every meeting, and if only Mandarin speakers are present he goes home? Do I have to RSVP that I'm coming to a meeting at my own strata?

I should not have to RSVP to each and every meeting just so they can schedule a translator, and what if no translator can attend? Will all the meeting minutes be in English aswell? How can I sell my property being English only speaking if half the minutes are in Mandarin? Why must I then translate all the minutes on my own time?

The issue isn't a hard one, and most people relate it to common courtesy or respect.

[SumAznGuy]

@parm104:

I do not have a problem with people speaking their language, writing in their language and annexing themselves. My problem comes into play when an immigrant comes here, and wants to conduct his business all in another language and wants US to accommodate him.

Your retail example is a relate-able one. An easy example is: Mandarin only speaker goes to Costco, and demands that someone who speaks Mandarin come and help him because he does not speak English. We don't have to, why can't you go learn simple English so that you can speak our National language? Why must we constantly be accommodating? Just shows the arrogance and disrespect because they don't care to put forth effort to try and even learn to communicate with anyone who speaks English.

Your quote from above is applicable, where they say a translator will be present at the meetings where non-Mandarin speakers are involved. Does that mean that a translator is hired for every meeting, and if only Mandarin speakers are present he goes home? Do I have to RSVP that I'm coming to a meeting at my own strata?

I should not have to RSVP to each and every meeting just so they can schedule a translator, and what if no translator can attend? Will all the meeting minutes be in English aswell? How can I sell my property being English only speaking if half the minutes are in Mandarin? Why must I then translate all the minutes on my own time?

The issue isn't a hard one, and most people relate it to common courtesy or respect.

In our Strata, the minutes are in English and Chinese.
Our Strata is made up of 1 Mexican immigrant, 1 Italian immigrant, 1 China immigrant, 1 canadian born daughter of Italian immigrant, 2 caucasians.
When I was part of strata, my ears would bleed and the meetings took extra long to try to explain in english to the 3 english not a first language people.

So while I see your point about the mainlanders not conducting the meeting in english, the same can be said if they decide to hold the meeting in French. How MANY can say they will fully understand and be able to communicate.

[MG1]

What I find most interesting is the talk about teaching Mandarin in some Richmond schools.

I don't get it. Don't they get enough of it at hone? I mean if you want them to learn English, why confuse matters more by teaching them something they already kind of know?

They should be getting double the English classes. As for learning their own culture......... hmmmmmm........... learn the culture of this country seems to be more important, yes?

And, if you really want your kids to learn Mandarin, there's a thing called after school classes. Pay for it yourselves. Don't spend valuable resources from what little the public school system gets.

/rant

[320icar]

Are you serious? I went to RHS and we had a plethora of elective language classes. Of course 99% of the Chinese kids took Mandarin. Like, why wouldn't you for an easy a+.

Anyways. That's bullshit

[parm104]

@parm104:

I do not have a problem with people speaking their language, writing in their language and annexing themselves. My problem comes into play when an immigrant comes here, and wants to conduct his business all in another language and wants US to accommodate him.

Your retail example is a relate-able one. An easy example is: Mandarin only speaker goes to Costco, and demands that someone who speaks Mandarin come and help him because he does not speak English.


I'm fully on board with you on that front. A consumer, immigrant or not, shouldn't have any sense of entitlement to a translator when he or she goes shopping in our cities. Granted, I'm not submersed in the East Asian community enough to know the ins and outs and the habits and traits of immigrants coming from China. To be honest, I don't even know the difference between "Mainlanders" and other Asians. I'm ignorant to that world because I'm not in a day to day interaction with any of them. If you're saying that there are tendencies for certain immigrants to be rude I can imagine having to deal with that level of arrogance.

That being said, a CONSUMER shouldn't feel entitled to be spoken to any particular language but a private business owner should be entitled to operate under any language they see fit. We often get confused I think into thinking we have an official language across the nation. We have official government languages but that's it. Languages that are equal under the law but anything else dealing with language preferences is merely a personal choice.

[jk6221]

As a 4th generation Chinese-Canadian, it's upsetting and embarrassing how much entitlement many of these mainlanders think they have when they live here. One of my coworkers got yelled at by a Chinese man once because (despite speaking Canto) she did not speak any mandarin.

Apparently one his insults were along the lines of "Why do you work here if you don't know how to speak Mandarin?". These sort of people have absolutely no appreciation of where they are living. They simply see Metro Van as a safe haven from Communism where they can flaunt their wealth without due care of any of the real Canadians that were born and/or raised here.

[MG1]

I grew up amongst the 3rd and 4th generation Canadians of Chinese ancestry (Strathcona, what can I say?) and it's sad to see all their fathers and forfathers' hard work in getting Caucasians to respect them go down the tube.

Below was going to be part of my sig, but decided against it...........

"Gululu and friends, making the rest of Canada despise the Chinese, one post at a time."

But, there is always hope.......

[ae101]

As a 4th generation Chinese-Canadian, it's upsetting and embarrassing how much entitlement many of these mainlanders think they have when they live here. One of my coworkers got yelled at by a Chinese man once because (despite speaking Canto) she did not speak any mandarin.

Apparently one his insults were along the lines of "Why do you work here if you don't know how to speak Mandarin?". These sort of people have absolutely no appreciation of where they are living. They simply see Metro Van as a safe haven from Communism where they can flaunt their wealth without due care of any of the real Canadians that were born and/or raised here.

happen to me once too, i just insulted the mainlander back in mando

she then said she was going to get me fired, my supervisor asked me why i was so loud and i simply told her that its normal, that how some chinese ppl talk as she couldn't hear me right lol

then my supervisor said "dont get me started on loud talking asians"

[freakshow]

IMO, there's a big difference between a retail shop choosing to either display or have their staff use a certain language vs a strata council.

A retail store should be able to display whatever they want, and capitalism will work out the rest. Your transactions with them are completely voluntary.

A strata council is different because they're making changes and decisions that will directly affect you, and it is not a matter of voluntary consent. Anything that will result in a forced transaction (law or by-law), whether it will make you responsible, or whether your input would make someone else responsible, should be communicated in the primary language of the country.

[Qmx323]

As a 4th generation Chinese-Canadian, it's upsetting and embarrassing how much entitlement many of these mainlanders think they have when they live here. One of my coworkers got yelled at by a Chinese man once because (despite speaking Canto) she did not speak any mandarin.

Apparently one his insults were along the lines of "Why do you work here if you don't know how to speak Mandarin?". These sort of people have absolutely no appreciation of where they are living. They simply see Metro Van as a safe haven from Communism where they can flaunt their wealth without due care of any of the real Canadians that were born and/or raised here.

A co-worker of mine was berated by a main-lander because

Why would you work at a casino if you don't speak Mandarin?"

:rukidding:

You're in fucking CANADA

[originalhypa]

I grew up amongst the 3rd and 4th generation Canadians of Chinese ancestry (Strathcona, what can I say?) and it's sad to see all their fathers and forfathers' hard work in getting Caucasians to respect them go down the tube.

Maybe it's my age talking, but I feel that those who are Canadian, regardless of their color are being seen as a seperate entity compared to the mainlanders. Like how my redneck asian friends in Cloverdale tried to seperate themselves from the generation of "hongers" who came over in the 90's. Or like how I tried to seperate myself from the Jersey shore guidos, only to find that us Italians are a ridiculous people to start with.

It's like how there are Mexican-Americans who support Trump for president. They are now American citizens and part of the culture, and now have something to lose. In our own back yard, I'm surprised to see that it isn't the gwai lo who are causing the gentrification of Chinatown, but the children of the first generation of the "great leap forward" era. They have no ties to ancient chinese culture.

WutFace

[SumAznGuy]

Maybe it's my age talking, but I feel that those who are Canadian, regardless of their color are being seen as a seperate entity compared to the mainlanders.

No, has nothing to do with your age.
There has always been some hate towards mainlanders.
You only see it now because they are here.

Up until the past 20 years, mainlanders were all poor.
Most with little to no education as they had to work at a young age.
But this growing up poor also plays into their ethics.
Human lives are plentiful and resources are limited so it's all about survival of the fittest.

[bananana]

What I find most interesting is the talk about teaching Mandarin in some Richmond schools.

I don't get it. Don't they get enough of it at hone? I mean if you want them to learn English, why confuse matters more by teaching them something they already kind of know?

They should be getting double the English classes. As for learning their own culture......... hmmmmmm........... learn the culture of this country seems to be more important, yes?

And, if you really want your kids to learn Mandarin, there's a thing called after school classes. Pay for it yourselves. Don't spend valuable resources from what little the public school system gets.

/rant

Like it or not the education system is designed to prepare kids to become contributing members of society. Mandarin language proficiency has become and will increasingly be a major benefit to anyone in almost any field. If Brazil or whatever was becoming the a major player in world economics you'd be saying the exact same about that weird fucking version of Portuguese they speak.

Get the fuck outta here with your essentially xenophobic moral stand.

Besides it's fucking high-school level. You won't be able to learn shit in that environment over two years while also getting high and chasing ass. Irregardless, an introduction to another language is a good thing for anyone.

/Rant

Just to add to the actual debate, IMO I feel like high-school level CompSci should either become a compulsory subject or at the very least be an option to replace a language skill.

[MG1]

Get the fuck outta here with your essentially xenophobic moral stand.


That helped your post a lot.

[Lomac]

Get the fuck outta here with your essentially xenophobic moral stand.

:facepalm:

[bananana]

That helped your post a lot.

My argument follows along the actual pedagogical reasoning of second language in schools. The current methodology that was created over about a thousand years of history.

In contrast your entire post is non sequitur. There's no argument, no logical plot or conclusion. Just nothing at all. A simple minded jab at the concept of a second language.

You want to live in a globalized world and enjoy the fruits of unheard of levels of consumerism then this is what is needed to prepare our nations youth and in contrast the future of the country for this world.

Bring on the fails, but this type of conversation is why some circles view the local Canadian populace lazy, unambitious and entitled.

[meme405]

My argument follows along the actual pedagogical reasoning of second language in schools. The current methodology that was created over about a thousand years of history.

In contrast your entire post is non sequitur. There's no argument, no logical plot or conclusion. Just nothing at all. A simple minded jab at the concept of a second language.

You want to live in a globalized world and enjoy the fruits of unheard of levels of consumerism then this is what is needed to prepare our nations youth and in contrast the future of the country for this world.

Bring on the fails, but this type of conversation is why some circles view the local Canadian populace lazy, unambitious and entitled.

What'd you just stumble onto Thesaurus.com? Take it easy.

MG1 makes a valid point, English and French are Canada's official languages, those should be the primary languages taught in schools. Sure if you want to take a japanese or spanish, or madarin class go for it, but it comes at the expense of one of your elective blocks.

This coming from someone who speaks three languages, English (because canada duh), French (Because I was in french immersion for school), and Farsi (through home use). There was no need for me to be taught Farsi in school, I picked it up at home from a young age with no problems.

[parm104]

What'd you just stumble onto Thesaurus.com? Take it easy.

English and French are Canada's official languages,


What does this mean to people here? To be an official language...An official language of what? For whom?

I think people often misconstrue what it means to be Canada's "official languages."

[bananana]

What'd you just stumble onto Thesaurus.com? Take it easy.

MG1 makes a valid point, English and French are Canada's official languages, those should be the primary languages taught in schools. Sure if you want to take a japanese or spanish, or madarin class go for it, but it comes at the expense of one of your elective blocks.

This coming from someone who speaks three languages, English (because canada duh), French (Because I was in french immersion for school), and Farsi (through home use). There was no need for me to be taught Farsi in school, I picked it up at home from a young age with no problems.

Sorry that was too difficult for you to understand but that those are considered basic usages for the people actually making decisions about our education system. You know, those people that actually went to school and specifically studied and constantly apply their knowledge to these topics. It is pretty typical to use specific language while debating specific topics. Google is an excellent resource and it's not difficult to look things up.

Study of different languages outside of our official languages is important for a ton of different reasons outside of filling in government forms. Canada is not some backwater closed door economy as the general discussion on RS seems to infer. We participate internationally where other languages are used and a basic introduction to these other languages has never hurt anyone.

[meme405]

@ Bananana - I honestly have no idea what you are talking about, you're point is so unclear. Are you saying schooling in richmond should be conducted in Mandarin because that's the language they all speak? or because it's the language of the future? I genuinely have no clue what the fuck you are trying to prove here. So it's pretty hard for me to have an intelligent conversation with someone who is typing like they just got finished hotboxing their mom's minivan.

What does this mean to people here? To be an official language...An official language of what? For whom?

I think people often misconstrue what it means to be Canada's "official languages."

Actually it's not confusing at all, and it's only open to misconception based on an individuals own ignorance or stupidity.

The Official Languages Act is a Canadian law; it gives French and English equal rights in Canada and makes them the preferred language over all others. There is a few other laws which also govern languages but The Official Languages Act is the legislative keystone for Canada's bilingualism.

The act establishes the following (among other things) :

-that Canadians have the right to receive services from federal departments and from Crown corporations in both official languages;

-that Canadians will be able to be heard before federal courts in the official language of their choice;

-that Parliament will adopt laws and to publish regulations in both official languages, and that both versions will be of equal legal weight

[bananana]

@ Bananana - I honestly have no idea what you are talking about, you're point is so unclear. Are you saying schooling in richmond should be conducted in Mandarin because that's the language they all speak? or because it's the language of the future? I genuinely have no clue what the fuck you are trying to prove here. So it's pretty hard for me to have an intelligent conversation with someone who is typing like they just got finished hotboxing their mom's minivan.

There is no issue with me or my argument. If your reading comprehension is such shit that's your fucking problem. Interesting how someone so fucking retarded would attempt to and has the gall to participate in a debate about education. Not everyone that lives and is educated in Canada stays in the country to look for jobs here to serve the local population. A lot of us expat (2.8 million, 10% of our workforce). A lot of us work jobs that are reliant on countries rather than our own. Canadian companies sell products internationally. We import things we don't produce here. How do you think this happens? Magic?

Just for you: Look at the amount of products that exist for everyone to consume. How many were produced here? How many were imported from elsewhere? How the fuck do you think Canadian companies sell things to other non-English speaking countries? What about vice-versa?

A basic introduction to languages other than our own is a good thing no matter how you look at it. Perhaps a few will further study and bigger, better things will happen from there. Having Mandarin as a choice for a elective language study is as simple as the realization that 1.4 Billion people speak it and everyday they are becoming a larger player in a globalized world. If Iran or wherever you originate was as important internationally you'd be having the same complaints about Farsi.

[Manic!]

What'd you just stumble onto Thesaurus.com? Take it easy.

MG1 makes a valid point, English and French are Canada's official languages, those should be the primary languages taught in schools. Sure if you want to take a japanese or spanish, or madarin class go for it, but it comes at the expense of one of your elective blocks.

This coming from someone who speaks three languages, English (because canada duh), French (Because I was in french immersion for school), and Farsi (through home use). There was no need for me to be taught Farsi in school, I picked it up at home from a young age with no problems.

Can you read and write in Farsi?

[meme405]

Can you read and write in Farsi?

No. However this comes down to my own unwillingness to learn. I was put in classes by my parents for reading and writing, but I hated everything to do with it and school. By all accounts I was a terrible child when it came to education.

So I don't think it fails any of my points, I believe our education system should focus on teaching children the official languages of our country (since most already struggle to learn that within their K-12 education), and anything beyond that should be on the families to teach or enroll their kids into.

[meme405]

A basic introduction to languages other than our own is a good thing no matter how you look at it. Perhaps a few will further study and bigger, better things will happen from there. Having Mandarin as a choice for a elective language study is as simple as the realization that 1.4 Billion people speak it and everyday they are becoming a larger player in a globalized world. If Iran or wherever you originate was as important internationally you'd be having the same complaints about Farsi.

Maybe I am confused since I said excatly your point in my post, and yet you are sitting here arguing with me:

Sure if you want to take a japanese or spanish, or madarin class go for it, but it comes at the expense of one of your elective blocks.

I agree an introduction to other languages should be available, but exactly as you said, those courses should be electives. Nothing should detract from our goal of education here in canada to teach our children first and foremost the official languages of our country.

Go fuck off. You're the one that is spewing the same points I made making it seem like you are the second coming of christ himself with your divine knowledge.

[parm104]

Actually it's not confusing at all, and it's only open to misconception based on an individuals own ignorance or stupidity.

The Official Languages Act is a Canadian law; it gives French and English equal rights in Canada and makes them the preferred language over all others. There is a few other laws which also govern languages but The Official Languages Act is the legislative keystone for Canada's bilingualism.

The act establishes the following (among other things) :

-that Canadians have the right to receive services from federal departments and from Crown corporations in both official languages;

-that Canadians will be able to be heard before federal courts in the official language of their choice;

-that Parliament will adopt laws and to publish regulations in both official languages, and that both versions will be of equal legal weight

You say it's not confusing at all but you've already misinterpreted it. It doesn't make English and French the preferred languages in Canada. That's way too broad to be interpreted as law.

It makes English and French equal under the law when it comes to matters dealing only with government; not Canadian society as a whole. It gives English and French equality of status and equal rights and privileges as to their use in all institutions of the Parliament and government of Canada, not when it comes to private matters in our society. We do not have an official language across the board in Canada amongst our people (legally). Whenever someone says we do, they're basing it on their on preconceptions and experiences of our nation and perhaps percentage of people who speak it rather than on actual law.

Simply saying we have official languages in Canada doesn't help anyone. It has no bearing on what we should speak and what we need to speak in this country. That is entirely up to society itself.

You used the Official Languages Act to impose it on people in our society in private matters. You say it's quite simple but then why do you incorrectly apply to a conversation that started based on a dispute amongst private individuals in Richmond?

I don't dispute your notion that our education system should focus on first and foremost English and then French and then other languages. I'm fully on board with you there. Perhaps down the road one day it may change. I'm pretty sure the majority of our Canadian population cannot/does not speak French and so far I don't think it's hindering anyone's ability to contribute to society. Not being able to speak English would, of course.

[meme405]

^You're nitpicking, I havn't misinterpreted anything, I just didn't feel like typing the entire law book into my post to cover all the bases.

You are right, people are welcome to use any language they like in private interactions.

Now back to the issue at hand, is strata council more of a legal proceeding or is it more of a private interaction? I honestly don't know the answer to this one. Strata Council is a legally required aspect to having a multi unit development, but it doesn't fall under the legal infrastructure, it falls as a private matter, until there is a dispute.

The interesting thing here is that should this end up going through the legal channels, the mandarin speaking council will have to defend in a court of english/french speaking law, why they feel they are justified to speak mandarin only in their strata meetings. A little Ironic to say the least...

Perhaps down the road one day it may change.

No. The only thing that will change this, is the day that technology forces a change. AKA the day we can plug a machine into our body and instantly learn a language, or the day we get microchips which instantly translate, or some shit like that.

Without Technology forcing a change, everything else in this world is stagnant.

[underscore]

Bring on the fails, but this type of conversation is why some circles view the local Canadian populace lazy, unambitious and entitled.

Which circles, the ones that can't be bothered to put any effort into learning the primary language used in the country they chose to move to?

[murd0c]

plain and simple if you come and live in Canada everything should be in English/French first and then have an option of the language in your area if requested. It should be put in the Canadian charter of rights which will end the conflict and frustration. It's great living in a multi-cultural country but people should really respect all culture's around them rather then their own...

[jasonturbo]

English will always win, American culture too strong, lots of immigrant people want to live like Westerner, no western people want to live like mainland gull.

Said another way, English>Mandarin

[Manic!]

No. However this comes down to my own unwillingness to learn. I was put in classes by my parents for reading and writing, but I hated everything to do with it and school. By all accounts I was a terrible child when it came to education.

So I don't think it fails any of my points, I believe our education system should focus on teaching children the official languages of our country (since most already struggle to learn that within their K-12 education), and anything beyond that should be on the families to teach or enroll their kids into.

French is literally useless. It may bean official language but it's pointless to learn. Students would be better off using a language that they would actually use.

Fun fact it's not mandatory for students to learn English in Quebec.

[MG1]

French is a dying language. Anyway............ bananarama might be on the prowl.

[Traum]

While French isn't generally used very much outside of Quebec, I'd definitely argue against that it is useless.

For anyone looking to work at the federal government level, knowing French is a major asset. Ottawa, in particular, operates on a French first, English second type of manner even though the vast majority of locals seem to be bilingual.

Also, much of Western Europe operates with some sort of French. When I was travelling there, I really wished I had spent more effort back in my hs French classes.

Mandarin is certainly useful to know, especially in Vancouver and Toronto where there is a sizable Chinese population. But I'd argue that in N.America as a whole, Spanish is the arguably more useful language to know, and it is probably easier to pick up than Chinese as well.

[westopher]

What'd you just stumble onto Thesaurus.com? Take it easy.

:awwyeah:
One of my favourite one line zingers on here in a long time. Bringing some sarcastic spark back to RS.

[MG1]

What was that saying again? Bullshit baffles brains............. I had absolutely no idea what bananarama said, but I took offence to the one sentence I did understand.

Then, I read his previous posts in other threads and it all made sense. He is what he is and it's all good. I'm not offended anymore - just :lawl:

[murd0c]

French is a dying language. Anyway............ bananarama might be on the prowl.

it doesn't matter if its dying or not its part of our country and it always will be. When I have kids I'm going to put them in French emersion no questions asked since the options you have when looking for a federal job is fantastic and needed.

[MG1]

No, you are going to send your kids to French Immersion because your kids will be way better off than the masses.

The programme is well funded, as the federal government throws some money into the programmes. This is above and beyond what our provincial government funds its regular classes. Plus, the classes are full of kids who's parents are well informed and care. Learning French is an added bonus.

My daughter asked me when she was in grade 5 if she could attend a Late French Immersion class that was starting up at a nearby school.

This is Late French Immersion. When my daughter graduated secondary school, she thanked me for lining up and getting her in, back then. She told me that she finally got into a class where kids wanted to learn. She also met her best friend there. No dumbass shitheads and shit disturbers in the class. "For once, we learned and nobody had to be talked to or dealt with by the teachers. So much got done in class." Wow!

There are no learning disabled kids or behaviour kids in those classes. Only straight "A" students with a desire to learn.

Now, as far as Early French Immersion, the picture isn't always great. They take anybody who's interested. It's kind of watered down. But, it's still a helluva lot better than regular classes. Parents who don't give a shit about their kids' education wouldn't even consider French Immersion.

What's really weird is, the Late French kids, in two years, catch up to those who are in Early French Immersion who have been at it since Kindergarten.

Anyway, those are my experiences and observations. It may be different for others and other schools and school districts.

As one person I know put it, "French Immersion is a private school in a public school setting."

Having said all that, not all kids are successful in those programmes. Some students drop out. It's not for everyone.

My kids are all grown up and this happened decades ago, but from what I hear, the French Immersion programmes are not as strong as they once used to be. In some schools, they actively seek out students to keep enrolment up. That's scary. If the programme was good, you'd figure they'd be knocking on your door. Not the other way around.

The biggest challenge with running French Immersion classes is finding qualified teachers, let alone ones who can actually teach it well. So many students have been turned off by ineffective French teachers. Qualified, but not very inspiring. When you're scraping the bottom of the barrel, thats what you get. If you know your French, you're hired, sight unseen.

Does anyone on RS have kids in Programme Cadre? I'd like to hear how that's going.

[Ch28]

My argument follows along the actual pedagogical reasoning of second language in schools. The current methodology that was created over about a thousand years of history.

In contrast your entire post is non sequitur. There's no argument, no logical plot or conclusion. Just nothing at all. A simple minded jab at the concept of a second language.

You want to live in a globalized world and enjoy the fruits of unheard of levels of consumerism then this is what is needed to prepare our nations youth and in contrast the future of the country for this world.

Bring on the fails, but this type of conversation is why some circles view the local Canadian populace lazy, unambitious and entitled.

What'd you just stumble onto Thesaurus.com? Take it easy.

http://i.imgur.com/ZSnLScs.gif

[jasonturbo]

French immersion +1

Titty bar in Montreal much better when you can speak French, they don't hate you quite as much as they hate the anglophones.

[SumAznGuy]

French immersion +1

Titty bar in Montreal much better when you can speak French, they don't hate you quite as much as they hate the anglophones.

Try using that French in Paris and the locals there will speak to you in english. :alone:

[murd0c]

it's cause our French is dirty French and the France French people are snobs to it like the true Quebec Frogs are snobs to people that only speak English.

[MG1]

Actually, the phrase I've heard is, it's "hillbilly" French, lol.

Aren't french people snobs by nature? Everybody else's shit smells, but not their's?


Thank god there's french women.................

[ae101]

true story, friend was in France and he try speaking English but no cared/being ignored

start speaking mandarin and ppl start coming in with service speaking English to you

my friend was like WTF

[kr4l]

French immersion +1

Titty bar in Montreal much better when you can speak French, they don't hate you quite as much as they hate the anglophones.

This is not true. Cash is the only language you need.

Learning different languages is very important for the futures of your children but picking French over say, Mandarin is a huge mistake. I know I'll be pushing my kid to learn mando for sure.

[murd0c]

This is not true. Cash is the only language you need.

Learning different languages is very important for the futures of your children but picking French over say, Mandarin is a huge mistake. I know I'll be pushing my kid to learn mando for sure.

How would it be a huge mistake? Last time I checked this is CANADA and Federal employee's get the best pension and benefits in the country and with less people learning French especially in western Canada they will have more opportunities rather then someone learning Mandarin when it's not a official language.

I find it so said about how blind sided people are in the thread about the bigger picture and how they think because 1/3rd of the worlds population speaks a language they will be better off learning it.


I would like to note I for one hate French but living in the country we do it gives you the most options for a better future sadly.

[meme405]

Meh, I fail to believe most people would have very much success trying to pick up mandarin here in canada, unless they come from a Mandarin speaking household.

It's not like some white kid is going to have a great chance at learning one of the most complex languages, when he/she can only utilize it for at most 10 hours a week (assuming some really motivated white kid studies 2 hours a day 5 days a week at it).

Whereas French, and spanish can be learned in as little as a couple hours a week if you stay with it. You won't be the greatest at it, but me even 10 years after leaving my last french class can still hold a conversation with just about anyone.

That's what I think most people are missing here, English, spanish and french go hand in hand. The three are very simple to pick up if you know one or two of the others. Whereas Mandarin, japanese, korean, these languages are a completely different ball park, this isn't something our education will be able to effectively teach children who don't have a background in the language.

[jasonturbo]

English is the international language of business, even in Quebec you will hit a glass ceiling at some point if you don't speak very good English... doesn't matter how brilliant you are etc.

If there is one language everyone should speak it's English.

I won't even bother learning other languages now, that's time I could spend jamming English down the throats of foreigners.

If you don't know this, barely anyone in Quebec can speak English, most people who can speak it live in Montreal.. go visit any of the small towns or even Quebec City, barely anyone can understand English.

[SumAznGuy]

That's what I think most people are missing here, English, spanish and french go hand in hand. The three are very simple to pick up if you know one or two of the others. Whereas Mandarin, japanese, korean, these languages are a completely different ball park, this isn't something our education will be able to effectively teach children who don't have a background in the language.

That's where you are wrong.
While complex, mandarin is actually not that difficult to learn since they only use 4 tones.
I took Mandarin when I was at UBC and some of the top marks went to the caucasian students.

[meme405]

That's where you are wrong.
While complex, mandarin is actually not that difficult to learn since they only use 4 tones.
I took Mandarin when I was at UBC and some of the top marks went to the caucasian students.

The issue isn't that it's a difficult language to learn overall. The difference is that unlike english-french-spanish, in mandarin any english speaker has to learn new characters and alphabet. I'm not saying at all that mandarin is more difficult to learn than english or vice versa. Actually from what I understand they are relatively similar.

It's great that the top marks in some Mandarin 101 class went to White people, but at the end of that class how many of those kids could actually speak mandarin? lol.

Do schools in China teach English?

I mean sure 1.3 billion people speak mandarin, and that's great to say that more people should learn it cause as China grows it would be important.

But some 900 million people in this world speak English, and it could be said to China that it might be worthwhile for them to learn English if they plan on becoming any more than a supplier of cheap labor throughout the planet.

[GLOW]

i knew someone bilingual that went to france once i think paris and when she spoke canadian french people were incredibly rude to her so she went back to english and everyone treated her normally or at least better so she played the ignorant english speaking tourist :lol

[CivicBlues]

Do they not teach Parisian (Standard) French in BC Schools? I thought they did, otherwise we'd all sound like dirty Quebeqois Tabernac!, which I'm pretty sure we don't.

[jasonturbo]

Do they not teach Parisian (Standard) French in BC Schools? I thought they did, otherwise we'd all sound like dirty KaybekwaasTabernac!, which I'm pretty sure we don't.

That is correct, we learn proper French outside of Quebec.

[GLOW]

no idea where she was from i just knew she was bilingual and from canada. maybe she grew up in quebec?

[CivicBlues]

Yeah, English is pretty dominant now in much of the world. Whenever I travel I find people (especially younger folks) much more eager to practice their English than to put up with me stumbling with their native tongue. The exceptions of course, being older persons, and the French :p

[Mr.HappySilp]

Just something I notice when working as a support. More and more Chinese speaking are being rude. Instead of even trying or at least ask for a Chinese speaker they just start talking in Chinese like as if everyone in Vancouver speaks Chinese. The sec someone from the call center tells them they don't understand chinese. Oh boy you are in for it.

Is only Chinese that does that. Other people would at least try to communicate with you in English first and ACTUALLY try really hard. Chinese no way they make you speak their language and sometimes even go as far to complain that we should train everyone to learn Chinese. WTF @@

[SumAznGuy]

The issue isn't that it's a difficult language to learn overall. The difference is that unlike english-french-spanish, in mandarin any english speaker has to learn new characters and alphabet. I'm not saying at all that mandarin is more difficult to learn than english or vice versa. Actually from what I understand they are relatively similar.

It's great that the top marks in some Mandarin 101 class went to White people, but at the end of that class how many of those kids could actually speak mandarin? lol.

Do schools in China teach English?

I mean sure 1.3 billion people speak mandarin, and that's great to say that more people should learn it cause as China grows it would be important.

But some 900 million people in this world speak English, and it could be said to China that it might be worthwhile for them to learn English if they plan on becoming any more than a supplier of cheap labor throughout the planet.

Yes they do teach english in some of the schools in China and in Hong Kong.
You would be quite surprised. I've met china people that were into heavy metal as they grew up in Bejing and was heavily infuenced by western cultures as a child. I found it hard to image them with jean jackets, big mullets and listening to GnR and ACDC.

As for the debate about learning another language, it just comes down to how much dedication one puts into learning it. Doesn't really matter which language. You learned Farsi on your own and I picked up canto because I watched a lot of Young and Dangerous movies. :fuckyea:

Also, of the 1.3B people that speak mandarin, I think your number is off but that's not really that important.

[underscore]

I graduated ~10 years ago, and from grade 6-12 I went to schools with French Immersion. Roughly half of my friends in those days were in FI.

When I have kids I'm going to put them in French emersion no questions asked since the options you have when looking for a federal job is fantastic and needed.

That is a perk, but outside of a federal job it's not so useful, and I found the French Immersion kids tend to have pretty poor English grammar because they took so many classes in French. Some friends that went to an all-French school were appallingly bad at English.

No, you are going to send your kids to French Immersion because your kids will be way better off than the masses.

I wouldn't really call the difference that significant.

Plus, the classes are full of kids who's parents are well informed and care.

They tend to be more pretentious and douchey, at least to people who aren't in their special-snowflake FI program. Beyond that they tended to be about as well informed and caring as any other group of parents.

There are no learning disabled kids or behaviour kids in those classes. Only straight "A" students with a desire to learn.

Sounds like your daughter was lucky, because that certainly isn't the case everywhere. It was roughly the same number of idiots as the regular classes.

Parents who don't give a shit about their kids' education wouldn't even consider French Immersion.

Around here at least a lot of kids end up in FI because the elementary school is in a really convenient location, and a lot of parents want their kids to go to that school but don't live in the catchment area for it. They only really want an easier commute.

Do they not teach Parisian (Standard) French in BC Schools? I thought they did, otherwise we'd all sound like dirty Quebeqois Tabernac!, which I'm pretty sure we don't.

That is correct, we learn proper French outside of Quebec.

Are you sure? I've had several friends who took FI go to France and have problems because they sounded "Quebecois". All those years of learning French and they spoke English almost their entire time in France :lol

[Sid Vicious]

i used to work at a french canadian company and alot of the quebecois were as as fobby or even moreso than mainlanders.

it was quite pathetic actually

[bananana]

Ah yes, the great extremely educated masses on RS here to solve another of society's woes. None of my language was greater than a basic 101 level class but please fail away to appease your senses of self worth. In the end this entire dialogue meant nothing anyways.

However remember that in the real world, decision makers generally employ specific language to simplify conversations. I'm suddenly remembering why I stay away from these super intellectual off-topic debates. Enjoy the circle-jerk you bitches. :nyan:

[Traum]

Important question -- by Chinese, do you really mean Mainland Mandarin, Taiwanese Mandarin, Cantonese, or some other Chinese variant? That's an important difference because I find that it is only the Mainland Mandarin speaking people that behave that way.

Location also seems to make a big difference. I hear / see more of that stuff happening in the Chinese Richmond areas far more than anywhere else.

Another thing I notice is -- Spanish and Indian speakers that do not have a good command of English generally bring along someone who does to do the translation work for them. Not so for Mainland Mandarin speakers.

Just something I notice when working as a support. More and more Chinese speaking are being rude. Instead of even trying or at least ask for a Chinese speaker they just start talking in Chinese like as if everyone in Vancouver speaks Chinese. The sec someone from the call center tells them they don't understand chinese. Oh boy you are in for it.

Is only Chinese that does that. Other people would at least try to communicate with you in English first and ACTUALLY try really hard. Chinese no way they make you speak their language and sometimes even go as far to complain that we should train everyone to learn Chinese. WTF @@

[CivicBlues]

i used to work at a french canadian company and alot of the quebecois were as as fobby or even moreso than mainlanders.

it was quite pathetic actually

LOL wut? FOB = Fresh off the boat.

Most Quebecois had ancestors in North America dating back to the 1600s, which is probably more so than 80% of anglophones.

I get what you're trying to say, but maybe you mean "resistant to learn English"

[Sid Vicious]

LOL wut? FOB = Fresh off the boat.

Most Quebecois had ancestors in North America dating back to the 1600s, which is probably more so than 80% of anglophones.

I get what you're trying to say, but maybe you mean "resistant to learn English"

yes, and mainlanders/hkers etc probably flew here on an airplane but you dont hear me arguing semantics

[MG1]

I'm pretty sure some of the French Immersion teachers in our province teach "dirty" French, because they learned it from their teachers. So on and so on. I've heard some French Immersion teachers say stuff like, "Oh he's very good with his French. No accent at all." Some French teachers are from other countries and backgrounds. Their French is also a little different. Does it matter? I'll have to ask my daughter.

Do people even know the difference between Early French Immersion, Late French Immersion, and Programme Cadre?

Check out the CPF website - always an interesting one. They are supporters of FI, so you have to take stuff they say with a grain of salt. The national organization is great, for sure, but some of the local ones are, well...............

Canadian Parents for French (http://cpf.ca/en/)

[MG1]

Enjoy the circle-jerk you bitches. :nyan:


My standard reply from now on..........


:lawl:


one more time, :lawl: :lawl: :lawl:


okay, that was three........... :lawl:

[kr4l]

How would it be a huge mistake? Last time I checked this is CANADA and Federal employee's get the best pension and benefits in the country and with less people learning French especially in western Canada they will have more opportunities rather then someone learning Mandarin when it's not a official language.

I find it so said about how blind sided people are in the thread about the bigger picture and how they think because 1/3rd of the worlds population speaks a language they will be better off learning it.


I would like to note I for one hate French but living in the country we do it gives you the most options for a better future sadly.

Sorry didn't mean "mistake". Maybe more of not a great choice
. Everyone has there plan for there children. If I wanted my kids to get a cushy government desk job in Canada and work 40 hours a week for the best pension plan, sure I'll make them take French.

But I want my kids to see the world and I can gaurantee knowing Mandarin (now and in the future) it will open more doors then knowing French as a second language.

Who really cares for a pension and a great benefits plan when you're making great money

Disclaimer: im CBC, know very little canto, no mando whatsoever. I actually hate mainlanders but I know the value of their language in the world of business

[ImportPsycho]

My 5yr daughter started kindergarten in Vancouver, this month.
All the letters and forms, sent home to parents are in English and Mandarin.
Is this how things are now? I did not expect it from public school. Sure there are lot of Chinese students but...VSB approve of this?
Anyway, i would like my daughter to learn Mandarin over French if i were to pick.

[Nlkko]

Guy havent seen his kid yet planned to get them to take French so they can get a government desk job. Sounds just like the typical Asian parents want their kids to be doctors. Recipe for failure and/or miserable life for your kids and you.

[Traum]

Personally, I think you guys are giving Mandarin too much credit than it deserves.

Undoubtedly, Mainland China is a huge market. But there are a couple of things I think you guys are overlooking. It would take far too long to explain this in detail, so I will just highlight a couple of points without providing too much background detail / evidence. But if you are willing to look, the evidence is all there.

- China has really reached its peak economy power some time back in 2008 - 2010. Ever since then, it economic growth has slowed and continued to slow.

- Numerous provinces, counties, cities, etc. are in massive debt. The central government is still holding / hoarding a lot of cash, but with the weakening economy, it is tossing them out at a rapid pace.

- And then we still haven't take into account the massive loss of reserves as corrupt officials funnels them out of the country. The rich are also doing the same thing to transfer funds out of China.

- Mainland China is a very exclusive market, in the sense that it always tries to exclude foreigners from entering their market. If they need foreign resources, IP rights, etc., they will actively come seek it. But as soon as they think they know your trade secrets / technologies / techniques well enough, they will try all sorts of things to keep you out.

Especially on that last point, what it means is, if you are not a Han Chinese national, don't expect any career success to last. You may get treated like kings initially when the Chinese market / company need your skills and talents. But from hiring you, they will milk you for all you are worth, and mine your knowledge and skills. And then when they think they know enough, they will quite mercilessly dump you. Again, unless you are one of them Han Chinese national, you will always get treated like an outsider in that sense that you are not one of them.

So think about that before lining up a life long Mandarin education for your kid. Mandarin is undoubtedly a very useful language, even when you take the above into account. But it is in no way the most promising language since slice bread as some of you seem to believe.

[kr4l]

^ with your reasoning, you might as well just stick to English.

In the end, having a skill such as a second language will open more doors than someone who just knows just english. I would choose mando over French. Others would choose Japanese etc etc. Just get your kids to learn something

[parm104]

VSB approve of this?


What's there to approve? It's no way an infringement upon any of your rights or anyone else's.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/Confusion_of_Tongues.png

[ImportPsycho]

What's there to approve? It's no way an infringement upon any of your rights or anyone else's.

Im not complaining, i thought things are more strick, being public an all

[MG1]

How about our kids learning English first. Don't have to look too far to see what I mean.

[SumAznGuy]

How about our kids learning English first. Don't have to look too far to see what I mean.

And yet here we are talking about FI.
Make up your damn mind. :troll:

[threezero]

Learning to speak another lanuage will always have its perks in life. I immigrant here when I was 7. I can speak perfect English and my native tongue is Cantonese. I pick up Mandarin in my teens when I notice the change in Chinese demographic here locally. Instead of making Fun of mainlander like my other honger, cbc friends. I got to know their culture, learn to speak fluent Mandarin and even dated mainlander.
This has help me a lot now in adult life. I am able to do business with mainlander and I'm getting opportunities throw at me sometimes just because I'm completely canadianized but am able to navigate mainlander lanuage and culture while a lot of my other westernized Chinese counterparts can ONLY speak Cantonese or broken Mandarin but can't grasp the culture that is vital to deal making and business politics.

I still think everybody in Canada should make the effort to learn the local culture and lanuage, but patronizing other culture and making a conscience effort to resist another culture is in general bad for business and bad for community well being. That goes both ways.

[MG1]

And yet here we are talking about FI.
Make up your damn mind. :troll:

No, my daughter has the English language mastered, believe me.

Read the post again. There are three levels of French Immersion.

Early is the watered down anything goes, version. The Late FI is where they only take students who can handle the workload and have a good track record. My daughter was at least 3 years ahead in math and was constantly correcting her teachers in Language Arts classes. IQ in the top 2-6% (not to brag or anything - okay I am. She gets it from her mother, BTW, not me). And finally, Programme Cadre, where the parents of the child speak French at home.

Saw the :troll: in your post, lol.

[MG1]

I still think everybody in Canada should make the effort to learn the local culture and lanuage, but patronizing other culture and making a conscience effort to resist another culture is in general bad for business and bad for community well being. That goes both ways.

I'm not sure any of us made fun of another culture, except the French, LOL, but resisting another culture?

You'll have to explain that one a bit more.

[MG1]

As for ESL students. They usually have a better grasp of the English language than the locals, Gulolol.

Like I've always said, we need to develop EFL classes. English as a first language, but still can't get it right.

[SumAznGuy]

As for ESL students. They usually have a better grasp of the English language than the locals, Gulolol.

Like I've always said, we need to develop EFL classes. English as a first language, but still can't get it right.

Tell me about it. I have a co-worker who constantly says "faxde" "checkde"
She is CBC too. Our education is horrible.

"I faxde it this morning"

"I checkde it twice..." :heckno:

[CivicBlues]

I was listening to the radio and one of the announcers pronounced Trafalgar Street as "Traffle Gar" FailFishFailFishFailFish

[GLOW]

As for ESL students. They usually have a better grasp of the English language than the locals, Gulolol.

Like I've always said, we need to develop EFL classes. English as a first language, but still can't get it right.

my previous supervisor commented to me that he wants to improve his english and i told him you learned english properly and are better at it than people born here. ours is trash ... but he said his sounds weird/different than us and he wants to sound like me ... i said you'll need to watch more english tv and talk to me more to learn more "normal/local" aka crappy english :lol

[MG1]

I was listening to the radio and one of the announcers pronounced Trafalgar Street as "Traffle Gar" FailFishFailFishFailFish

hahahahaha...........

Traffic Radio has the worst announcers.

Colony Farm.

Kelowny Farm.

Just like Kelowna, but with a "Y" at the end.

Many more examples, but I would wet myself from laughing so hard. You report traffic, at least learn how to pronounce the streets and locations correctly.

[Traum]

Learning to speak another lanuage will always have its perks in life. I immigrant here when I was 7. I can speak perfect English
Hmm, mkay... you did say "speak" perfect English, not write. :troll:

I do not dispute any of what you've said in your post. I picked up Mandarin back in university when there was a cute Taiwanese girl in my class. And I have enough interactions with Mandarin speakers to understand their culture and practices -- this applies to both Mainlanders and Taiwanese.

For me, it comes to a point where I generally do not agree with many of the Mainlanders beliefs and practices. No, I do not find drinking 40% Chinese white / yellow liquor fun, nor is it necessary for the majority of people in a group to smoke and toss butt ends everywhere. I also don't think it is acceptable for a kid to pee or poop anywhere, any time "just because he is a kid". And no, I definitely do not think it is acceptable to roll over student protesters in a tank, and no amount of economic prosperity can be justified with the bloody murder of human lives.

On doing businesses with Mainlanders, this is yet another major source of grief. The concept of contract law and legally binding agreements don't really exist for a lot of them. Apparently, bargaining to the point where there is hardly any profit left is the norm, and even then, payment for products and services received at the previously agreed upon price (yeah, the one with minimal profit margins) does not need to be timely. And then when you pursue them for payment, apparently they think it is OK to pay only a portion of the accrued fee on the condition that you will provide further products and services -- of course, with an invoice that is due in yet another 90 days later. To add insult to injury, they make it sound like they are doing you a huge favour by giving you business. It just gets to a point where it is so ridiculous you don't even bother with them unless there is payment upfront. And then they get pissed off.

Naturally, I am not saying every Mainlander is like that. I have made some good Mainland Chinese friends and done business transactions with upright Mainland Chinese small businesses as well. But in my experience, that type of unacceptable behaviour occurs at a disproportionate ratio with Mainland Chinese compared to people from other ethnic backgrounds.

and my native tongue is Cantonese. I pick up Mandarin in my teens when I notice the change in Chinese demographic here locally. Instead of making Fun of mainlander like my other honger, cbc friends. I got to know their culture, learn to speak fluent Mandarin and even dated mainlander.
This has help me a lot now in adult life. I am able to do business with mainlander and I'm getting opportunities throw at me sometimes just because I'm completely canadianized but am able to navigate mainlander lanuage and culture while a lot of my other westernized Chinese counterparts can ONLY speak Cantonese or broken Mandarin but can't grasp the culture that is vital to deal making and business politics.

I still think everybody in Canada should make the effort to learn the local culture and lanuage, but patronizing other culture and making a conscience effort to resist another culture is in general bad for business and bad for community well being. That goes both ways.