[Timpo]

I was wondering about this.

Right now, only 4% of money in Canada is physical cash. (coins and bank notes)
The other 96% is all imaginary/intangible (data in the computer).

So I was wondering if that would ever happen in Canada and did some Google research.
I found this article Denmark is trying eliminate cash and make it all electronic data.
Denmark hopes to boost its economy by eliminating cash - Quartz (http://qz.com/399531/denmark-hopes-to-boost-its-economy-by-eliminating-cash/)

The 4% of Canadian dollar is physical cash, but it will very likely go down to 1% or even lower in the near future.

What do you think? Do you think we're gonna eliminate cash in the future and make it all data?
It will definitely be cheaper for the government because they spend enormous amount of money designing/engineer & printing/producing cash/coins.

[sdubfid]

Implant a chip in my finger to start the car, open the house, pay for goods, check in for flights
Hate carrying keys and wallet timpo

[8000rpmvtec]

I don't think that's a good idea. It's good to at least have some physical change on you just in case. They should just leave it the way it is now. If you run out and there is no physical money (cash, coins, etc...) then you will have to BUY some in order to get more but you are going to be broke and now fucked. As I said earlier, just leave it the way it is or get rid of the stupid Bitcoin idea.

[parm104]

Implant a chip in my finger to start the car, open the house, pay for goods, check in for flights
Hate carrying keys and wallet timpo

It's like you're purposely trying to invite CharlesinCharge to come in here and tell about his higgity biggity zippity government conspiracies!

"that's how they get you mannnnnnn, they plant microchips in our bodies and control our mindss." -CiC

[sdubfid]

When everyone in the government can change a flat tire then I'll start worrying about them controlling my brain

[corollagtSr5]

Physical cash is outdated in this new age of technology. I think eventually it'll all be electronic. Chip implant or finger print payment, credit card style. Criminals however will end up chopping your hand off or removing your implanted chip lol

[Manic!]

But then how will people pay for drugs? Because i it's digital based everything can be tracked.

[willystyle]

Will I think the future will be cashless? Yes
Do I personally want that to happen? No

[VR6GTI]

how can we avoid paying taxes then? :(

[murd0c]

It won't be a chip in your finger or arm it will be pay with your phone which we are already starting to see. That being said physical cash will always be around unless something drastic happens.

[meme405]

But then how will people pay for drugs?

Better get to suckin'.

[Mr.HappySilp]

I like things the way they are now. If I found a store shaddy I use cash. If I am traveling and don't want to get ding with fees I change my money in advance. Also a lot of shops and restaurant (mostly asians) only accept cash (BB Tea places for example).

[tool001]

yeh cause easy to recover taxes if deals r done via credit.......

[Manic!]

It won't be a chip in your finger or arm it will be pay with your phone which we are already starting to see. That being said physical cash will always be around unless something drastic happens.

Some people already have RFID implants in there arm.

[Timpo]

how can we avoid paying taxes then? :(
yeh cause easy to recover taxes if deals r done via credit.......

Tax evasion isn't the only way to obtain illegal money.

Hackers have been sending malware and viruses to attack banks and other creditors and agencies.
Do your Google research, sometimes they steal north of $100+ million, much higher than business owners not claiming their bubble tea sales to IRS/CRA.

[blkgsr]

go to a developing country and ask the same question....will never happen outside of north american/europe

[bloodmack]

No, we will always need something physical to represent our currency. I think the only way this would legitimately work is if the whole world converted to one select currency.

[FerrariEnzo]

Total Recall

[Manic!]

go to a developing country and ask the same question....will never happen outside of north american/europe

In many developing countries a persons first phone is a cel phone skipping the land line all together. I could see a mobile phone to mobile phone payment transfer system working really well in these types of countries.

[Nightwalker]

In many developing countries a persons first phone is a cel phone skipping the land line all together. I could see a mobile phone to mobile phone payment transfer system working really well in these types of countries.

Apple Pay for instance.

Physical cash representing fiat currency is doomed.

Buying drugs will be a lot safer and easier when they're all legal :high:

To be honest cash is less needed for drugs already as well.

No, we will always need something physical to represent our currency. I think the only way this would legitimately work is if the whole world converted to one select currency.

Why? I've travelled the world with nothing but credit cards in my pocket. When the local market dealt in cash, I simply hit an ATM. As things progress, I can skip that ATM trip.

It's a win-win for the consumer and the retailer.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Apple Pay for instance.

Physical cash representing fiat currency is doomed.

Buying drugs will be a lot safer and easier when they're all legal :high:

To be honest cash is less needed for drugs already as well.



Why? I've travelled the world with nothing but credit cards in my pocket. When the local market dealt in cash, I simply hit an ATM. As things progress, I can skip that ATM trip.

It's a win-win for the consumer and the retailer.

I only use cash when traveling. Is like a trust issue for me. Try going to Mexico and use your credit card. Or China a lot of place only accept local credit card. International credit card can't be use.

[Manic!]

The only problem with a cashless society is when the network goes down and it does go down. After a major earthquake people without cash are going to be screwed.

[6o4__boi]

doubt it

higher chance we'll start using bottlecaps in the future as cash

[Nightwalker]

The only problem with a cashless society is when the network goes down and it does go down. After a major earthquake people without cash are going to be screwed.

I guess that's 96% of our money already.

Cash is just a currency to get things that actually have value. I guess those survivalist hoarders aren't totally crazy. In that situation, stockpiled food/water/shelter and gear will be far more valuable than cash on hand. Physical assets always win.

Cash is a token promising value but doesn't have any of its own.

I only use cash when traveling. Is like a trust issue for me. Try going to Mexico and use your credit card. Or China a lot of place only accept local credit card. International credit card can't be use.

I do too, I just pick it up on-site usually by hitting an ATM. No problems in Guatemala, Thailand, Laos, or anywhere else.

I think soon a lot of those places will be as cashless as we are.

[Mr.HappySilp]

^^ I think I use ATM once in China once I ran out of cash. And let's just say finding an ATM that accept either my credit card or debit card was near impossible. Most of their ATM don't have interac or Plus symbol. Finally found one ATM that have it, I was so happy lol.

[Timpo]

Cash is a token promising value but doesn't have any of its own.

yeah that's why it's called Fiat Currency.

Kevin O'Leary and other super rich people keep their asset as gold.

Because cash in the end, is a piece of paper with number printed on and could go down in value significantly for whatever reason. Had happen before and will happen again.

But gold on the other hand, had the solid value for thousands of years.

[Timpo]

The only problem with a cashless society is when the network goes down and it does go down. After a major earthquake people without cash are going to be screwed.
That depends.

Your debit/credit cards can be reproduced as long as you have an ID or some sort.

But if you have physical cash, when earthquake/tsunami/hurricane come, if you lose your wallet or whatever, so be it.

The network might go down in BC, but they might have backup data somewhere else.

[Manic!]

That depends.

Your debit/credit cards can be reproduced as long as you have an ID or some sort.

But if you have physical cash, when earthquake/tsunami/hurricane come, if you lose your wallet or whatever, so be it.

The network might go down in BC, but they might have backup data somewhere else.

Earthquake happens internet goes down. Go to your local store to buy something you better have cash because your debit card will not work.

[Nightwalker]

yeah that's why it's called Fiat Currency.

Kevin O'Leary and other super rich people keep their asset as gold.

Just to not confuse people that cash equals fiat currency, cash used to be gold-backed in Canada until 1931 and was not a fiat currency at that point. It was backed by actual gold in banks and was redeemable for gold.

It became a fiat currency when the gold standard was dropped because now cash is literally backed by nothing but a government promise that it is, in fact, legal tender.

Fiat currency is like living in Monopoly land and being given Monopoly money. If you want to play the Game of Life, better hope someone over there wants to play Monopoly. If no one wants to play Monopoly anymore, you're screwed.

[threezero]

No cash? How do you pay for illegal product and service? How will homeless survive without being able to beg for charge? How do you stuff bills into stripper thongs. How will cocaine be snorted in nightclubs? Where do you stick pictures of dead president national symbols so every single person in the country can have access too?

Tax evasion aside, forcing small business to not take cash and only take electronic money where every transaction comes with a service charge is going to kill many business before it even takes off.

I see coins going away in the not very far future. Cash money probabaly not n

[pastarocket]

No cash? How will anyone ever be able to make it rain without paper? :troll:
#makeitrain

https://media.giphy.com/media/3oEduHh0njlxkeqJVK/giphy.gif

[Timpo]

I don't know if you guys are serious or not, but in summary, seems like many people are against the idea of cashless society mainly because you can no longer commit tax evasion, dealing drugs, etc.

Producing cash isn't cheap.
Here's an example from the states, it costs 1.7 cents to produce a penny and 8 cents to produce a nickel.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/12/15/it-cost-1-7-cents-to-make-a-penny-this-year-and-8-cents-to-make-a-nickel/

Looks like physical cash is down to 1% in the states.
Governments Have Begun Moving to Ban Physical Cash - Gains Pains & Capital (http://gainspainscapital.com/2015/10/08/governments-have-begun-moving-to-ban-physical-cash/)
"Put another way, actual physical money or cash (as in bills or coins you can hold in your hand) comprises less than 1% of the “money” in the financial system."

Also I can't find a source right at this moment, but in the states, even at 1% physical cash, it's costing tax payers approx $670 a year just to keep the cash floating around in the society. I bet the number is higher in Canada since it's at 4%.

For that kind of price, I would rather suck up the mild inconvenience and use credit, debit, cheque, wire transfer, paypal, etc.

[Mr.HappySilp]

^^ won't work. Tell that to all the shops that accepts cash only and homes and cars being bought with cash only. If it is done without cash a lot of foreign investors would not invest here. Look at all the commericals space, housing, local business being bought. Is their way to evade tax. If there is a trail for the gov to follow they will be ding for tax and mostly money laundering. So in truth the gov will never allow this even they know lot's of foreign investors are most likely money laundering here.

[Ronin]

Paying with cash is just paying more because you don't take advantage of your credit card's cash back or other benefits, which add up to a significant discount.

[Ludepower]

Paying with cash is just paying more because you don't take advantage of your credit card's cash back or other benefits, which add up to a significant discount.

Im sorry but Im sick of people bragging about their credit card points and benefits that's because 90% of credit card holders carry their balance over and over and over. The interest you pay negates all the benefits.

It's been be proven you spend less with cash because you're less likely to spend physical currency. With a CC you lose track of your spending and get carried away swiping everywhere with imaginary money.

[Timpo]

^^ won't work. Tell that to all the shops that accepts cash only and homes and cars being bought with cash only. If it is done without cash a lot of foreign investors would not invest here. Look at all the commericals space, housing, local business being bought. Is their way to evade tax. If there is a trail for the gov to follow they will be ding for tax and mostly money laundering. So in truth the gov will never allow this even they know lot's of foreign investors are most likely money laundering here.

That's a huge contradictions right there. CRA/IRS are reportedly very tough on tax evaders. Especially oversea investors and all that. It is well known fact that HSBC and KPMG are always battling against CRA/IRS because of their tax issues and helping out clients' tax evasions to the tax havens.

Allowing tax evasion isn't going to help honest investors and entrepreneurs.

[MG1]

I'm sorry, but I have shit loads of points and I have never, ever carried my balance over. I guess I'm reaping the benefits caused by the actions of people you describe. So thank-you, Joe Public.

Also, I doubt any frugal asian would allow that to happen......... carry balance over and pay hight CC interest rates.

[Mr.HappySilp]

^^ or with cash you actually have to physically get up, go to the store, line up and pay vs with CC you can just go online and buy what you feel like.
It might not be related but I feel a lot of debt ppl carry these days on their CC have to do what the ease of online shopping. Is like Ludepower said when you use a CC is very different than cash and online shopping take this farther by making it so you only need to enter your CC info once.

[Bouncing Bettys]

Star Trek is a way of life
http://youtu.be/ilY4hRgfC2Q

[CivicBlues]

Paying with cash is just paying more because you don't take advantage of your credit card's cash back or other benefits, which add up to a significant discount.

You realize that using your credit card incurs a cost to the retailer right? And in the end they pass that cost on to you. Especially to small business that pay credit card companies per transaction. That's why so many Chinese-run business are "Cash Only" - partially because they want to hide income from the CRA, but also to save on the transaction costs.

In Australia some businesses such as hotels have 2 prices - one lower for debit/cash, one higher for credit. It was annoying as fuck, but then I realized in North America they just bury the fee and pass it on to all customers regardless.

[Manic!]

Paying with cash is just paying more because you don't take advantage of your credit card's cash back or other benefits, which add up to a significant discount.

Those points are not free. Credit and debit card companies charge stores a percentage or a flat fee. Stores just pass that on to the customer. Canadian tire gives you Canadian tire money for paying in cash and cost only excepts debit and MasterCard no Visa.

Only way a 100% cashless society can work is if bank fee's are regulated. I still remember when some banks would only give customers a certain number free debit transactions a month before they started charging a fee.

[Berzerker]

I can't remember the last time I used cash. I use a card for every thing. In fact you can now do Apple pay and pay for things using your phone. My phone case has a spot for cards on the back of it and I keep my cards there. I don't even have to carry a wallet anymore. I just wave my phone over the tap console and boom it's paid for. In time money will be able to exchange hands from phone to phone like any normal transaction. I've also done email transactions rather than use cash. For me I am virtually completely electronic with money. I'm curious when a global standard of currency will take place. I know how difficult that is as there are different markets and values based on economy but I can't wait until they are called Credits.

Berz out.

[Mr.HappySilp]

^^ what if your phone broke or server got hacked? Or better yet someone stole your phone? I see ppl using those cell phone case with Credit card holders in them and I just roll my eyes. Is like if someone take your phone and ran or you lost your phone. There goes your credit card and all your ID. You can't even call anyone coz or get a taxi.

I guess I am just traditional. I still have a wallet and put cell phone and wallet is different pockets. In case one gets stolen I am still have the other.

[Berzerker]

I only have my phone to worry about. Wallets can be dropped, lost but if I'm without my phone for more than a few seconds I know it. Odds of my phone being stolen or lost is far less than a wallet. You can't live in fear. People can steal your CC info right out of your pocket with RFID scanners. If it's gonna happen it's gonna happen. Hell I want to even take the whole process one step further and get an RFID implant in my hand. That way I can just wave my hand over a tap machine and pay for stuff.
As it stands now most people have no idea whats happening when I wave my phone over the console and it pays. It's quite amusing and I can only imagine what people would think if I just waved my hand over the console and it paid lol

Berz out.

[Ronin]

Im sorry but Im sick of people bragging about their credit card points and benefits that's because 90% of credit card holders carry their balance over and over and over. The interest you pay negates all the benefits.

It's been be proven you spend less with cash because you're less likely to spend physical currency. With a CC you lose track of your spending and get carried away swiping everywhere with imaginary money.

Carrying a balance is for dumb people. I've had a credit card for nearly 15 years now. Not once in that 15 years have I paid any interest. I pay my bill in full every single time. Don't spend money you don't have. Interest is a full controllable cost in that you don't have to pay it if you pay your bill on time.

Whenever I do anything with money, I want as few people to make as little money off me as possible while keeping as much of it as possible for myself and getting as much as I can for a dollar.

Money is money. I don't need psychological tricks to keep my spending under control. That's also for dumb people. It's just math. This is why dumb people are usually poor.

You realize that using your credit card incurs a cost to the retailer right? And in the end they pass that cost on to you. Especially to small business that pay credit card companies per transaction. That's why so many Chinese-run business are "Cash Only" - partially because they want to hide income from the CRA, but also to save on the transaction costs.

In Australia some businesses such as hotels have 2 prices - one lower for debit/cash, one higher for credit. It was annoying as fuck, but then I realized in North America they just bury the fee and pass it on to all customers regardless.

Those points are not free. Credit and debit card companies charge stores a percentage or a flat fee. Stores just pass that on to the customer. Canadian tire gives you Canadian tire money for paying in cash and cost only excepts debit and MasterCard no Visa.

Only way a 100% cashless society can work is if bank fee's are regulated. I still remember when some banks would only give customers a certain number free debit transactions a month before they started charging a fee.

Yes, but here there aren't two prices and that fee is buried in the cost regardless of whether I use a credit card or not. Even if you pay cash, that fee is in the price. If the fee is 3%, someone paying cash is 3% in the hole but for someone like me that pays with a 1.5-2% cash back card, you're getting much of that fee back.

When you think about it, it's really the people paying cash that are paying for my points. They pay the same price I do but I get more.

Plus all the other benefits. I get discounts on flights, AMEX lets me use their airport lounges, etc.

[Sid Vicious]

I don't know if you guys are serious or not, but in summary, seems like many people are against the idea of cashless society mainly because you can no longer commit tax evasion, dealing drugs, etc.

Producing cash isn't cheap.
Here's an example from the states, it costs 1.7 cents to produce a penny and 8 cents to produce a nickel.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/12/15/it-cost-1-7-cents-to-make-a-penny-this-year-and-8-cents-to-make-a-nickel/

Looks like physical cash is down to 1% in the states.
Governments Have Begun Moving to Ban Physical Cash - Gains Pains & Capital (http://gainspainscapital.com/2015/10/08/governments-have-begun-moving-to-ban-physical-cash/)
"Put another way, actual physical money or cash (as in bills or coins you can hold in your hand) comprises less than 1% of the “money” in the financial system."

Also I can't find a source right at this moment, but in the states, even at 1% physical cash, it's costing tax payers approx $670 a year just to keep the cash floating around in the society. I bet the number is higher in Canada since it's at 4%.

For that kind of price, I would rather suck up the mild inconvenience and use credit, debit, cheque, wire transfer, paypal, etc.

that is not true at all. there are tons of ways to not use cash and still engage in tax evasion or drug dealing.

[Ronin]

^^ what if your phone broke or server got hacked? Or better yet someone stole your phone? I see ppl using those cell phone case with Credit card holders in them and I just roll my eyes. Is like if someone take your phone and ran or you lost your phone. There goes your credit card and all your ID. You can't even call anyone coz or get a taxi.

I guess I am just traditional. I still have a wallet and put cell phone and wallet is different pockets. In case one gets stolen I am still have the other.

What if a plane crashed into your house? What if your phone battery explodes? What if...what if...what if...

Preparing for every contingency is just...you are so worried about the things that could happen to you rather than enjoying anything that does.

Oh hey if you drop your phone or your credit cards, you can do a remote shutdown of your phone or cancel your credit cards. Lose cash and...oh.

[CivicBlues]

Carrying a balance is for dumb people. I've had a credit card for nearly 15 years now. Not once in that 15 years have I paid any interest. I pay my bill in full every single time. Don't spend money you don't have. Interest is a full controllable cost in that you don't have to pay it if you pay your bill on time.

Whenever I do anything with money, I want as few people to make as little money off me as possible while keeping as much of it as possible for myself and getting as much as I can for a dollar.

Money is money. I don't need psychological tricks to keep my spending under control. That's also for dumb people. It's just math. This is why dumb people are usually poor.





Yes, but here there aren't two prices and that fee is buried in the cost regardless of whether I use a credit card or not. Even if you pay cash, that fee is in the price. If the fee is 3%, someone paying cash is 3% in the hole but for someone like me that pays with a 1.5-2% cash back card, you're getting much of that fee back.

When you think about it, it's really the people paying cash that are paying for my points. They pay the same price I do but I get more.

Plus all the other benefits. I get discounts on flights, AMEX lets me use their airport lounges, etc.

Tragedy of the Commons, self interest results in us the greater good being screwed. Don't believe for a second any of the credit card companies are doing this out of the goodness of their own heart. They make a killing off of small businesses.

I'm sure you know this but a lot of Chinese places have a no-tax or one-tax price for you when you pay cash :hotbaby:

[Ronin]

Hey, it's not my fault that other people don't use their credit cards too. Yes, it's self-interest but it's not like my strategy prevents others from doing the same. It's just that you have tons of people out there that are financially illiterate, thinking that for some reason spending cash means you probably spend less than when you have credit cards.

I see it less of a tragedy of commons and more of...I don't want to be like those people. You can see it everywhere...heck, all over RS...that some people take pride in being dumb. In keeping it real...real poor. There's no fighting the stupid. I see it as just letting stupid people be stupid and benefitting off their stupidity.

And yes, I live in Richmond. C'mon. Any way I can maximize my dollar is fine by me.

[Dragon-88]

Cash rules everything around me!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBwAxmrE194

[CivicBlues]

Hey, it's not my fault that other people don't use their credit cards too. Yes, it's self-interest but it's not like my strategy prevents others from doing the same. It's just that you have tons of people out there that are financially illiterate, thinking that for some reason spending cash means you probably spend less than when you have credit cards.

I see it less of a tragedy of commons and more of...I don't want to be like those people. You can see it everywhere...heck, all over RS...that some people take pride in being dumb. In keeping it real...real poor. There's no fighting the stupid. I see it as just letting stupid people be stupid and benefitting off their stupidity.

And yes, I live in Richmond. C'mon. Any way I can maximize my dollar is fine by me.

...and people wonder why there's such a large turnover in independent small businesses here in this city.

I'm no Luddite either, I use my credit cards for purchases over $30 or more, and reap the benefits as you do. But when I walk into a mom and pop shop and buy a packet of gum or an $8 sandwich I use cash to help the guys out. Talk to some of them, they're very appreciative of the fact you do.

[meme405]

Hey, it's not my fault that other people don't use their credit cards too. Yes, it's self-interest but it's not like my strategy prevents others from doing the same. It's just that you have tons of people out there that are financially illiterate, thinking that for some reason spending cash means you probably spend less than when you have credit cards.

I see it less of a tragedy of commons and more of...I don't want to be like those people. You can see it everywhere...heck, all over RS...that some people take pride in being dumb. In keeping it real...real poor. There's no fighting the stupid. I see it as just letting stupid people be stupid and benefitting off their stupidity.

And yes, I live in Richmond. C'mon. Any way I can maximize my dollar is fine by me.

I'm with you, insurance, vacations, business expenses, hotels, meals, etc. It all goes on my credit card. This is for a variety of reasons, the points and perks is certainly one of them, but there are other things as well.

Protection - my credit card protects me against fraud, and purchases not made by me, whereas if I lost my wallet with cash in it, that cash is gone forever (not that I lose my wallet often, but I have previously).

Warranty - Credit card purchases have extended warranties (which I have previously used).

Coverage - My credit card has medical and travel insurance coverage, again not something I have needed, but nice to have.

Contrary to a lot of people on here, I don't live in richmond, and I avoid it like the plague. So I don't necessarily have to worry about having cash for cash only places. I do carry cash on me of course for emergencies or for tipping people.

To the person above talking about carrying a balance, I don't know where you get your facts from but the amount of people that carry a balance on their card isn't 90%, unless you just have really stupid friends.

[Manic!]

...and people wonder why there's such a large turnover in independent small businesses here in this city.

I'm no Luddite either, I use my credit cards for purchases over $30 or more, and reap the benefits as you do. But when I walk into a mom and pop shop and buy a packet of gum or an $8 sandwich I use cash to help the guys out. Talk to some of them, they're very appreciative of the fact you do.

Credit card is a % debit is a flat fee. Would rather have someone use a credit card for a small purchase then debit.

[Ronin]

...and people wonder why there's such a large turnover in independent small businesses here in this city.

I'm no Luddite either, I use my credit cards for purchases over $30 or more, and reap the benefits as you do. But when I walk into a mom and pop shop and buy a packet of gum or an $8 sandwich I use cash to help the guys out. Talk to some of them, they're very appreciative of the fact you do.

Maybe if I had cash on me but even then, if there's a credit card option, I usually go with that.

And are we really talking about mom and pop stores? My issue was more that some moron thought credit card benefits are worthless because most people carry a balance. If you carry your balance on your credit card, you're doing it wrong.

[CivicBlues]

Well yeah, it's dumb of course, but you'd be surprised how many Canadians do so. We didn't become one of the most highly indebted per-capita nations in the world just through the sheer might of our mortgage leverage.

[tool001]

i donno.. but sure as hell disappears from my bank account.. wallet.. pockets...

:badpokerface:

[Nlkko]

Came across this and thought it's pretty cool and relevant on the cashless society:

So It Begins: Bloomberg Op-Ed Calls For An End Of Cash | Zero Hedge (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-01-31/bloomberg-op-ed-calls-end-cash)

[Digitalis]

Larry Summers Launches The War On Paper Money: "It's Time To Kill The $100 Bill" | Zero Hedge (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-16/larry-summers-launches-war-us-paper-money-its-time-kill-100-bill)
Only dirty criminals would touch cash!
Yesterday we reported that the ECB has begun contemplating the death of the €500 EURO note, a fate which is now virtually assured for the one banknote which not only makes up 30% of the total European paper currency in circulation by value, but provides the best, most cost-efficient alternative (in terms of sheer bulk and storage costs) to Europe's tax on money known as NIRP.

That also explains why Mario Draghi is so intent on eradicating it first, then the €200 bill, then the €100 bill, and so on.

We also noted that according to a Bank of America analysis, the scrapping of the largest denominated European note "would be negative for the currency", to which we said that BofA is right, unless of course, in this global race to the bottom, first the SNB "scraps" the CHF1000 bill, and then the Federal Reserve follows suit and listens to Harvard "scholar" and former Standard Chartered CEO Peter Sands who just last week said the US should ban the $100 note as it would "deter tax evasion, financial crime, terrorism and corruption."

Well, not even 24 hours later, and another Harvard "scholar" and Fed chairman wannabe, Larry Summers, has just released an oped in the left-leaning Amazon Washington Post, titled "It’s time to kill the $100 bill" in which he makes it clear that the pursuit of paper money is only just starting. Not surprisingly, just like in Europe, the argument is that killing the Benjamins would somehow eradicate crime, saying that "a moratorium on printing new high denomination notes would make the world a better place."


Yes, for central bankers, as all this modest proposal will do is make it that much easier to unleash NIRP, because recall that of the $1.4 trillion in total U.S. currency in circulation, $1.1 trillion is in the form of $100 bills. Eliminate those, and suddenly there is nowhere to hide from those trillions in negative interest rate "yielding" bank deposits.

Chart of value of currency in circulation, excluding denominations larger than the $100 note. Details are in the Data table above.

So with one regulation, the Fed - if it listens to this Harvard charlatan, and it surely will as more and more "academics" get on board with the idea to scrap paper money - could eliminate the value of 78% of all currency in circulation, which in effect would achieve practically the entire goal of destroying the one paper alternative to digital NIRP rates, in the form of paper currency.

That said, it would still leave gold as an alternative to collapsing monetary system, but by then there will surely be a redux of Executive Order 6102 banning the possession of physical gold and demanding its return to the US government.

Here is Summers' first shot across the bow in the upcoming war against U.S. paper currency, first posted in the WaPo:

It’s time to kill the $100 bill

Harvard's Mossavar Rahmani Center for Business and Government, which I am privileged to direct, has just issued an important paper by senior fellow Peter Sands and a group of student collaborators. The paper makes a compelling case for stopping the issuance of high denomination notes like the 500 euro note and $100 bill or even withdrawing them from circulation.

I remember that when the euro was being designed in the late 1990s, I argued with my European G7 colleagues that skirmishing over seigniorage by issuing a 500 euro note was highly irresponsible and mostly would be a boon to corruption and crime. Since the crime and corruption in significant part would happen outside European borders, I suggested that, to paraphrase John Connally, it was their currency, but would be everyone’s problem. And I made clear that in the context of an international agreement, the U.S. would consider policy regarding the $100 bill. But because the Germans were committed to having a high denomination note, the issue was never seriously debated in international forums.

The fact that — as Sands points out — in certain circles the 500 euro note is known as the “Bin Laden” confirms the arguments against it. Sands’ extensive analysis is totally convincing on the linkage between high denomination notes and crime. He is surely right that illicit activities are facilitated when a million dollars weighs 2.2 pounds as with the 500 euro note rather than more than 50 pounds as would be the case if the $20 bill was the high denomination note. And he is equally correct in arguing that technology is obviating whatever need there may ever have been for high denomination notes in legal commerce.

What should happen next? I’d guess the idea of removing existing notes is a step too far. But a moratorium on printing new high denomination notes would make the world a better place. In terms of unilateral steps, the most important actor by far is the European Union. The €500 is almost six times as valuable as the $100. Some actors in Europe, notably the European Commission, have shown sympathy for the idea and European Central Bank chief Mario Draghi has shown interest as well. If Europe moved, pressure could likely be brought on others, notably Switzerland.

I confess to not being surprised that resistance within the ECB is coming out of Luxembourg, with its long and unsavory tradition of giving comfort to tax evaders, money launderers, and other proponents of bank secrecy and where 20 times as much cash is printed, relative to gross domestic, compared to other European countries.

These are difficult times in Europe with the refugee crisis, economic weakness, security issues and the rise of populist movements. There are real limits on what it can do to address global problems. But here is a step that will represent a global contribution with only the tiniest impact on legitimate commerce or on government budgets. It may not be a free lunch, but it is a very cheap lunch.

Even better than unilateral measures in Europe would be a global agreement to stop issuing notes worth more than say $50 or $100. Such an agreement would be as significant as anything else the G7 or G20 has done in years. China, which is hosting the next G-20 in September, has made attacking corruption a central part of its economic and political strategy. More generally, at a time when such a demonstration is very much needed, a global agreement to stop issuing high denomination notes would also show that the global financial groupings can stand up against “big money” and for the interests of ordinary citizens.

* * *

And then there was this from Bloomberg:

Lawrence Summers urged countries around the world to agree to stop issuing high-denomination banknotes, adding his voice to intensifying criticism of a practice alleged by police to abet crime and corruption.

“Even better than unilateral measures in Europe would be a global agreement to stop issuing notes worth more than say $50 or $100,” Summers said on his blog on Tuesday. “Such an agreement would be as significant as anything else the G-7 or G-20 has done in years.”

The 500-euro note has been in circulation since the paper currency went live in 2002. British banks and money-exchange services stopped distributing the bills in 2010 after a report showed that 90 percent of demand for them came from criminals. ECB Executive Board member Yves Mersch said earlier this month that his institution still wanted to see “substantiated evidence” that the notes facilitate illegal activity.

For now, “I’d guess the idea of removing existing notes is a step too far,” Summers wrote. “But a moratorium on printing new high-denomination notes would make the world a better place.”

[dlo]

cash is king, never will lol

[Manic!]

This is a great way to control what people can buy or support. Pay pal just closed the accounts of a couple of companies that provided proxy service so people could watch US Netflix. Some large multi national claims you are infringing on a patent. They could lock your account so you couldn't even buy a bag of chips.

[Mancini]

An inevitable cashless society is a concept recorded in the bible 2000 years ago. At a time when such a concept was inconceivable. I think we'll see it happen.

[Digitalis]

Or the powers that be took the bible as a playbook knowing people will bend over and not fight it.... because omg it was writtein the bible end times blah blah:chairdance:
An inevitable cashless society is a concept recorded in the bible 2000 years ago. At a time when such a concept was inconceivable. I think we'll see it happen.

[Y2K_o__o]

Paying with cash is just paying more because you don't take advantage of your credit card's cash back or other benefits, which add up to a significant discount.

Credit card company has 3% service charge. This charge will be carried over to the customers by reflecting in a higher price we paid. American express is even steeper, which is why small business rarely accept this card.

Would you rather save 3% more or have some points that will expire

Here's one example:
ATIC Computers (http://www.atic.ca/)

This small business is giving you a choice to pay less. Regular price is exactly 3% higher than cash price.

No doubt credit card has advantage when it comes to traveling benefit, but the terms and conditions, and those fine prints are way too much hassle to read when you claim those benefit.