[Tapioca]

I've begun to casually look for another vehicle to accommodate a growing family.

To be fair, the most modern vehicle I've driven on a regular basis is a first-gen Mazda 3 which is our current daily driver. However, as some of you know, such a small car isn't going to cut it for family-related duties, such as carrying two rear-facing car seats. Before my days as a father, I owned such cars as a 2nd generation Integra and a few BMWs such as an E30, E46, and E39.

I sold my unicorn E39 with much regret (528 with a manual), but I'm looking for something that is engaging to drive but can handle family duties - something with fold-down seats, with car seat anchors, etc. So far, I've narrowed my search to the Mazda 5 and both generations of the Golf Wagon because both cars are rare in that a manual transmission is still an option. I want to avoid CUV/SUVs as much as possible since I personally believe they offer nothing more than what a capable wagon offers (aside from a raised driving position).

I drove 3 Golf Wagons today - 2 Mark VIs and a Mark VII (with manual transmission examples from each generation). Despite all of the rave reviews from auto writers, bloggers, and YouTubers, I was somewhat disappointed with both. With the Mark VI, I expected a much more direct feel in the steering wheel (since they still use a hydraulic pump), but both examples I drove, the steering had an unsettling dead feel on-centre and was too light in the city. The Mark VII actually had a more assertive steering feel, despite being completely electric. The clutches on both cars were almost too light, but the gearboxes were pretty direct compared to my old Getrag units in the BMWs I used to own.

I test drove a current generation Mazda 5 the other day. Since the car is based on the previous generation Mazda 3 platform, I expected very few differences in steering feel and responsiveness between our current car and the 5. However, I was disappointed in the steering feel (again, it was far too light, even compared to our 3) and the brakes were pretty mediocre too (to be fair, they're probably using the same set up from the 3 on the 5). Mind you, auto journalists have given the 5 very positive reviews.

I've driven a few other modern cars over the last couple of years (rentals when I'm on the job or on vacation). I drove a V6 Mustang while on vacation last year for a week and despite putting the car in its most sport-oriented driving mode, the steering still felt artificial and detached from the road. I've driven cars with CVTs (terrible, terrible transmissions) and even a Prius for a few days. In fact, I haven't been really impressed with any modern car despite modern cars having more horses and more efficient transmissions than anything I've owned or driven in the past. I haven't driven any cars the ZF 8-speed automatic (which is supposedly one of the best automatics available in a mainstream car), but basically any other automatic I've driven still has the issues that made me a convert to manuals - gear hunting, slow downshifts, etc.

What has happened to the modern automobile? I suppose removing connection to the road and steering feel has been demanded by the marketplace, but if I'm going to be spending significant chunks of my time in a box with four wheels, I want that time to be at least interesting.

[tiger_handheld]

driving is no longer an experience... its a chore. Modern auto is about self driving cars, so the humans can be more efficient. If you want to drive - buy a classic.

[kkttsang]

That's why van for wife, fun sport car for dad.
Lol.
We have a suv for the wife and baby, I'm also looking to trade in my e90 for mk7 gti or '15 wrx.

I know where your coming from. Even the new BMW f/3-Series aren't as fun to drive as the e 3 series. Partly to blame electronic steering.

I wanted a sporty fun to drive family sedan too around 35k, but gave up on that and decided to just get something sporty for me and something my kid can drive as a old beater but still cool, like wrx and gti.

[Lomac]

The Mazda6 is a pretty sporty family car, and it comes with a 6-speed stick. Yeah, it's got a slightly anemic engine but it can definitely handle the curves without an issue.

[Tapioca]

The Mazda6 is a pretty sporty family car, and it comes with a 6-speed stick. Yeah, it's got a slightly anemic engine but it can definitely handle the curves without an issue.

I considered that, but when you have babies, modern sedans are not the greatest for getting them in and out of seats. Sloping doors make it challenging to get babies into rear-facing car seats.

I get why SUV/CUVs have so popular for families - their dimensions make it easier to get young kids in and out. But, they're anemic to drive, heavy, and have negligible or less room in the hatch than a wagon.

[dared3vil0]

Hmm... 328 Touring?

[Jmac]

There was a mint E91 328xi touring wagon w/ 6 spd posted on the CL GB thread a few months ago. Would definitely rock one of those.

Also, that 6 spd Cadillac CTS-V wagon from AB w/ 500+ hp

Edit: Found the 328xit, Cadillac appears to be gone.

http://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/2007-BMW-328XIT-MANUAL-AWD-WAGON-WITH-LOW-KMS_26480725

[asian_XL]

I need a 7 seater for family, wife, babies, moving furniture, going electric is what I eventually want, too bad the Model X can't do the moving furniture part.

For a family guy's garage...a very reliable people carrier, then a totally impractical car will be perfect.

[GS8]

I can't help you with your vehicle choice.

All I can say is that new cars suck to me. The newest car I owned was a MY 2009 and I felt that was the newest I'd go. Now I drive a MY 97 car and it's great. Is it as refined? No but that's what makes it more engaging. I like moving parts, not electronic data.

The idea of owning a new(er) car past its warranty, regardless of brand, makes me cringe.

Mini rant: There's no replacement for a skilled driver. Fuck all these safety nanny gimmick bullshit sensors that are just more potential things that can go wrong. It's just more planned obsolescence fodder that the dealers can use to rape you when that shit breaks down. Same goes for those complicated nav / media units.

Just get a smartphone. Cheaper to replace yet can handle all your media and navigation needs :derp:

Yes I speak from someone who's been driving for decades and the idea of a new kid learning to drive in a 1975 Oldsmobile 98 makes me :lawl: super hard. Sign of the times though.

Hopefully by the time sentient cars become the norm, I'll be too feeble or too dead to partake.

[Tapioca]

Hmm... 328 Touring?

I've considered the E90 touring, or even an E60 touring, but as a former BMW enthusiast myself, there's the dark side of BMW ownership - wrenching. It's not that I'm not decent with a set of hand tools, but time is money and time is definitely in short supply with a young family. I'm sick of breaking plastic parts. Not only that, but with the way the CAD is these days, parts suppliers in the USA are no longer a viable alternative. IMHO, the E46/E39 generation was the last generation of BMWs that was built with service accessibility in mind.

I was pretty underwhelmed with the VWs. I was expecting all of the things I liked about my past BMWs in a modern shape with the VWs. The suspensions on the Golfs were competent, but something was lacking.

[Mr.C]

Get an e39 540i/6 Touring?

[ilvtofu]

IMO there are a lot of good driving cars these days, sometimes in places you'd least expect. If you can't find it you're probably just jaded about cars feeling different than what you're used to. Maybe I'm too much of an optimist but I'm almost always able to find something I like a lot in the way a car drives. Auto journalists tend to base their driving impressions relative to the segment, so when they say a Mazda 5 drives nicely, that doesn't mean it holds a candle to the ND Miata. I think you may be setting yourself up for failure if you're looking at full length wagons but not crossovers or hatchbacks, there just aren't that many choices in North America and the ones that we do have weren't necessarily meant to be driver's' cars.

The Mk7 GTI feels very different compared to the regular golf steering wise, but the GTI is undertired from the factory for my liking. There's more power/chassis than what those OE tires can put down which results in noticeable understeer. Obviously not available in the wagon variant in Canada but the back seat is roomier than your 1st gen Mazda 3, keep in mind vehicles in the same segment just keep getting bigger and bigger as time goes by.
Lightly used Focus ST's can be had for a really good price nowadays and may offer the on-center steering feel/excitement you're looking for, trunk is decently long and might be good enough for the baby hauling. Not something I'd take to the track in stock trim but for a street car it's very fun.

CX5 felt pretty good to me. Trunk seemed a bit narrow but I didn't feel like it was underpowered and the steering feels great. My standards for power might be a lot lower than yours though. Contrary to your belief I think this drives a lot nicer than lower wagons like the Golf, Mazda 5, Prius V, etc. There's just much more competition in this segment which gives them a reason to make this car drive well.

Acura continues to impress me with how well some of their cars drive, I took out a FWD 2.4 TLX 8-speed dual clutch press car last year and the handling was phenomenal. That transmission beats out the ZF in terms of smoothness and really wakes up the old K-series engine, drives a lot better than the old auto TSX with that engine IMO. If your budget can make it work, the current gen RDX, while not a looker is a great driving car.

[thebrownboy]

Used C63. Can get a 2010 or so around 40,000ish. Very fun and engaging car once you turn off the ESP. Be careful though, she's very tail happy once the driver assists are all off

[hi-revs]

Get yourself the new wrx

[TOS'd]

Read thread title, came in here thinking it was Timpo's thread.

[snowball]

CX5 has pretty stiff suspension and heavy steering for a CUV

If autos okay it comes with a 6 speed auto instead of a CVT though power might be lacking (on par with others in segment though)

[dark0821]

First, I want to say congratz on the kids! And yes you will still have mod money after....

I was in your exact position about 2 years ago. while my wife was 7 month into her pregnancy, under heavy parents influence from both sides of the family, we pulled the trigger on a Nissan Rogue. Though roomy, it was underpowered and CVT, Everyday I would drive it, and think to myself, how and why am I spending gas money on a car that has worse mileage than my 240.

4 month into the whole baby thing, I gave the rogue to my parents, My complaint to them was, my wife cant lift the car seat high enough.

At that point I was looking for a Mazda Speed 3, one trip to the dealership after, I left with a Hyundai Elantra Hatch (Mazda had like a 6 month wait for the speed, and even the 2.5 sport manual was 4 month wait, because I had to have manual...and the Fiesta ST was the right price, but too small, and focus ST was the right size but it got into the low $40's) With the elantra, still under power, but hey, at least super cheap at the pump. And with a set of super basic megan coils and wide rubber, it handled great. (Yes, good on gas even with 235s RE01Rs all around, and plus I convinced the wife with the low ride height, she doesnt have to lift as high to load/unload the car seats), I wasn't the happiest camper, but hey, my wife let me keep the 240 for weekends and work.

An opportunity came when my friend was letting go of his EVO, let just say, you will be surprised how much room you get in a "modern" sedan (way bigger than my 96' corolla, even the evo with the smallest interior in its class I think), 2 full on first stage child seats in the back. Yes, the trunk is incredibly small, but it fits a duo seat stroller just fine.

So, yes, you can totally get away with having 2 new borns and a sport sedan. Maybe try to see if ther is a used WRX/STi hatch for more room? On a side note, the EVO is the first AWD car that I owned, OMG the grip.

Let me know what you end up with, we took the car seat to the dealerships when shopping for the the family hauler, and just test drive and test drive, the more cars you drive, and more you can narrow down your search.

Good luck with it, and as for your concern, yes, modern vehicle drives "different" from the sporty cars of the 90s, but there are still plenty of fun to be had.

[BoostedBB6]

The majority of modern cars are really lack luster to drive unless you have a lot to spend.

Things like the F80 M5 are fun when you want them to but and would pull family duty, but for 100k its a little unrealistic to be a people mover.

If you can afford it, get one people mover and one more fun to drive car. That is what we ended up doing and it works well.

[Tapioca]

Get an e39 540i/6 Touring?

BMW never made such a car in wagon form. E39 525/528 with a stick are unicorns - I've seen maybe 1 or 2 for sale in Vancouver. Rumour has it fewer than 200 of such cars were imported to North America.

Even if one kicked around, it would command a premium on the used market and I would still have to deal with all of the issues on that chassis such as a suspension rebuild, ABS module rebuild, VANOS rebuild, etc. Plus, it wouldn't have child seat anchors, which kind of defeats the whole purpose.

CX5 has pretty stiff suspension and heavy steering for a CUV

If autos okay it comes with a 6 speed auto instead of a CVT though power might be lacking (on par with others in segment though)

Don't really care about power (I drove sub-200 HP cars all of my life), but I care about driving dynamics and build quality. I'll definitely give the CX-5 a try, but a brand new one is a little bit of our price range right now.

First, I want to say congratz on the kids! And yes you will still have mod money after....

I was in your exact position about 2 years ago. while my wife was 7 month into her pregnancy, under heavy parents influence from both sides of the family, we pulled the trigger on a Nissan Rogue. Though roomy, it was underpowered and CVT, Everyday I would drive it, and think to myself, how and why am I spending gas money on a car that has worse mileage than my 240.

4 month into the whole baby thing, I gave the rogue to my parents, My complaint to them was, my wife cant lift the car seat high enough.

At that point I was looking for a Mazda Speed 3, one trip to the dealership after, I left with a Hyundai Elantra Hatch (Mazda had like a 6 month wait for the speed, and even the 2.5 sport manual was 4 month wait, because I had to have manual...and the Fiesta ST was the right price, but too small, and focus ST was the right size but it got into the low $40's) With the elantra, still under power, but hey, at least super cheap at the pump. And with a set of super basic megan coils and wide rubber, it handled great. (Yes, good on gas even with 235s RE01Rs all around, and plus I convinced the wife with the low ride height, she doesnt have to lift as high to load/unload the car seats), I wasn't the happiest camper, but hey, my wife let me keep the 240 for weekends and work.

An opportunity came when my friend was letting go of his EVO, let just say, you will be surprised how much room you get in a "modern" sedan (way bigger than my 96' corolla, even the evo with the smallest interior in its class I think), 2 full on first stage child seats in the back. Yes, the trunk is incredibly small, but it fits a duo seat stroller just fine.

So, yes, you can totally get away with having 2 new borns and a sport sedan. Maybe try to see if ther is a used WRX/STi hatch. On a side note, the EVO is the first AWD car that I owned, OMG the grip.

Let me know what you end up with, we took the car seat to the dealerships when shopping for the the family hauler.

Good luck with it, and as for your concern, yes, modern vehicle drives "different" from the sporty cars of the 90s, but there are still plenty of fun to be had.

Thanks man. Don't have two yet, but it's in the plan. It's the convertible rear-facing seat that's a challenge.

I'm glad I wasn't the only person who thought the Rogue was a POS. I drove the Rogue for work once over a couple of days and that experience made me swear off CUVs/SUVs. Of course, there's oddities like the first-gen X3 with a manual, but if I wanted all of the goodness of a BMW, I would have kept my 5-series.

I've always thought about Subarus, but I drove a modern Outback once and it was mediocre. I've been spoiled by soft-touch and premium quality materials of my older cars (my 92 Integra had a better quality interior than our current Mazda 3). I think our Mazda 3 has pretty decent driving dynamics and tossability for a modern car, but it's the wrong transmission. The problem is that it's relatively worthless on the used market (too many examples), but it has low mileage so it still has many years left of reliable, penny-pinching service. We'd like to keep it as an errand runner.

[68style]

I haven't driven a CX-5 and I dislike CUV's too, but I gotta say when I sat in one at the auto show the driving position was exemplary, fit like a glove and I think Mazda works a little harder at driving feel than other companies do based on experience with a Mazda3. Maybe give it a chance? I agree it's quite expensive though and I think you can only get manual on the 2.slow engine.

Do not try a new RAV4, my sister bought one and I drove it from Richmond to Vancouver and back a month ago, I could actually feel the depression setting in from the vague steering feel and anemic everything. I'd shoot myself in the face if that's what I had to look forward to every time I went out. This is coming from a very loyal Toyota guy too.

[Tapioca]

I haven't driven a CX-5 and I dislike CUV's too, but I gotta say when I sat in one at the auto show the driving position was exemplary, fit like a glove and I think Mazda works a little harder at driving feel than other companies do based on experience with a Mazda3. Maybe give it a chance? I agree it's quite expensive though and I think you can only get manual on the 2.slow engine.

Do not try a new RAV4, my sister bought one and I drove it from Richmond to Vancouver and back a month ago, I could actually feel the depression setting in from the vague steering feel and anemic everything. I'd shoot myself in the face if that's what I had to look forward to every time I went out. This is coming from a very loyal Toyota guy too.

There's lots to like about Mazda - the driving dynamics and relative ease of DIY service. I sat in a CX-3 last year while picking up parts at the dealer and I too was impressed with the interior quality. The CX-5 makes sense on many levels, but a new one is just too expensive compared to something like a Golf Wagon which has just as much cargo room and is a real car as opposed to a box on stilts pretending to be a car.

Toyota's implementation of electronic steering leaves a lot to be desired. If the RAV4 is anything like the current Corolla I test drove a year ago, I'll steer clear (sorry bcrdukes).

One more thing about the VWs... I wanted to like the Mark VI Golf with the 2.5 engine, I really did. However, after driving both auto and manual versions, I was just underwhelmed. Perhaps, the Mark VI is just one of those cars that needs to be driven day-in, day-out to be appreciated.

[bcrdukes]

Nix the E91. I had one for a short period and it was not that great and yes, it sucked when wrenching on it. The dashboard was a Christmas tree galore.

Consider the Porsche Cayenne V6 - Cheap, reliable, fast, and fun

Don't get the Corolla. It screams "I gave up on life!" :D

[slicrick]

Have you considered the Infiniti EX35/EX37?

It is built on the same platform as the G35/G37 and drives similarly to one, also, dat VQ exhaust note. They have been around for a long time now (08-16) between the EX35, EX37 and QX50 which means there is lots of options as far as used examples go. They have a solid track record of reliability as far as I understand and servicing costs shouldn't be outrageous, fuel mileage isn't very good though.

It is kind of an odd size, not small enough to be a "car" but not big enough to be an SUV/CUV, I think it is a nice medium between the two though. I would encourage you to look at one. I think they're great cars.

[IMASA]

I'm in the same boat. Some may have scoffed at this announcement, but I was genuinely excited as I will eventually have to trade in my Mazdaspeed3 and get something in automatic so the wife and I can drive both cars.

Is Toyota Planning a Performance Version of the RAV4? (http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/news/a28174/toyota-rav4-performance-rumor/)

[yray]

Consider the Porsche Cayenne V6 - Cheap, reliable, fast, and fun


I went to ask Porsche on their lease rates... Sales said 6%. Even Porsche feels like they are worthless as used.

We are moving from pump to drive by wire. Sure, it gives us adaptive cruise control and lane keeping assist. But it makes driving a car feel like driving on at Logitech steering wheel with minimal feedback.

And those considering the rogue to be pos. Car is 34k loaded. What do you expect:drunk:. It's a great point a to b car or a company car.

[bcrdukes]

I should have been more specific - Look into the older, used Cayanne V6 models. They are cheap to buy and most have been well maintained. The only real issues on them are the models with air suspension (why would you want that anyway?) and the driveshaft, but again, most have been taken care of. Otherwise, they are very reliable and cost of ownership is reasonable. The Cayenne S V8 models need their coolant hoses replaced but I think that's more car than most of us need.

I can't speak for the newer ones. Porsche feels they aren't worth much because the cost of entry into the Porsche circuit is cheap with these cars, unlike the 911, Boxster, and Cayman etc. I sure as hell won't get another BMW.

[ilvtofu]

Have you considered the Infiniti EX35/EX37?

It is built on the same platform as the G35/G37 and drives similarly to one, also, dat VQ exhaust note. They have been around for a long time now (08-16) between the EX35, EX37 and QX50 which means there is lots of options as far as used examples go. They have a solid track record of reliability as far as I understand and servicing costs shouldn't be outrageous, fuel mileage isn't very good though.

It is kind of an odd size, not small enough to be a "car" but not big enough to be an SUV/CUV, I think it is a nice medium between the two though. I would encourage you to look at one. I think they're great cars.

I haven't driven the previous gen but drove a brand new generation QX50 (longer wheelbase) from Autowest BMW as a courtesy car last week. I swear they give you that car to make you really love your BMW. Not only is "dat VQ" notoriously bad on gas, it vibrates like a bitch at a stop light if you leave it in D (at least this courtesy car did), worse than a 2016 Corolla or Civic IMO. The back seat is actually very good with the new body but the interior is very dated with WAY too many buttons. Soft touch materials on the dash but the dash literally looks like a plumber's crack. This interior would have been great 10 years ago but it's just a POS for a brand new "luxury branded" car. Ironically I think the similarly priced Murano is a much nicer CUV. I really don't know how after 7 years of building this car, they thought the current iteration was a worthy update. :yuno:

http://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/5/2015/04/2016-Infiniti-QX50-interior.jpg
Literally looks like ass.

Infiniti had a good run in the mid 2000's but they really screwed the pooch and got lazy with their engineering/interiors in the last 3 years.

Used CX5 seems like the way to go. Used 2013/2014 Escape are decent to drive and cheap but I'm not sure about reliability/fuel economy.

[Tapioca]

I test drove a brand new Mazda 5 with a six-speed manual and a CX-5 with an automatic. I was disappointed with the somewhat over-assisted steering feel of the 5, but that 6-speed box was pretty good.

With respect to the CX-5, I was quite impressed with the steering feel - Mazda got the implementation of the electronic steering box right. The Skyactive engine made a decent sound on half-throttle too. I can see why there are so many of them on the road.

[Eff-1]

A4 avant? B7 or B8?

[whitev70r]

Corolla has an S trim.

[Galactic_Phantom]

^ not sure if srs

A4 avant? B7 or B8?

oh god the B8's steering is horrendous

[whitev70r]

OK, this is srs:
2007 MASERATI QUATTROPORTE M139 NO ACCIDENTS (WHITE/BROWN) (http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/rch/ctd/5447027303.html)

2007 MASERATI QUATTROPORTE M139, $30K

[UFO]

When i was in your position, I gave up and bought and bought a Camry. Hybrid. And I love it. Big, soft, smooth, vague, thing feels like it drives itself.

With 2 kids, wife, and groceries and various other junk in your car, driving dynamics will be the last thing on your mind.

Don't live in denial. You will eventually arrive where we all end up.

[Expresso]

^lol

Just give up!

[bcrdukes]

Give up on life! :D

[trollguy]

I can't help you with your vehicle choice.

All I can say is that new cars suck to me. The newest car I owned was a MY 2009 and I felt that was the newest I'd go. Now I drive a MY 97 car and it's great. Is it as refined? No but that's what makes it more engaging. I like moving parts, not electronic data.

The idea of owning a new(er) car past its warranty, regardless of brand, makes me cringe.

Mini rant: There's no replacement for a skilled driver. Fuck all these safety nanny gimmick bullshit sensors that are just more potential things that can go wrong. It's just more planned obsolescence fodder that the dealers can use to rape you when that shit breaks down. Same goes for those complicated nav / media units.

Just get a smartphone. Cheaper to replace yet can handle all your media and navigation needs :derp:

Yes I speak from someone who's been driving for decades and the idea of a new kid learning to drive in a 1975 Oldsmobile 98 makes me :lawl: super hard. Sign of the times though.

Hopefully by the time sentient cars become the norm, I'll be too feeble or too dead to partake.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Oldsmobile_Alero_sedan_--_03-16-2012.JPG

[yray]

They given up on life, now thats why every Camry Hybrid driver I've seen drives like they need to shit their pants.

[Liquid_o2]

Probably not an answer to what you are looking for, but when I was car shopping a few years back I was looking for a reliable 4 door that was fun to drive and had some storage for all my nephews stuff. Unfortunately all the cars I was test driving were primarily auto (including the new Mazda 3 GT) and were an absolute bore. Don't get me started on the CVT's.

Ended up with a Civic Si sedan because dat manual gearbox makes everyday commuting to work a pleasure. :chairdance:
Trunk surprisingly fits all my nephews stuff including his stroller, plus some shopping bags. I constantly use it for soccer and carpool with teammates easily fitting everyone's big soccer bags, and gone up with Whistler for a conference with an entire trade show booth in the trunk.
Overall it's been super practical.

[Akinari]

Whatever you do, stay as far away as possible from the current-gen (including the new 2016 facelifted) RAV4.

Having worked at Toyota for awhile a few years ago, I can firmly state that it was my most hated car in the entire lineup, by a long shot. Handling was wallowy, steering was completely dead and severely artificially weighted in an attempt to make it not dead, the motor (and every Toyota with a 2AR-FE) is so unrefined and sounds like a damn leafblower, it can't really go off-road, yet it's on-road driving characteristics aren't stellar either. It just feels like such an appliance, dare I say even more so than a Corolla or Camry Hybrid, which by the way are actually great to drive if you're looking for something comfortable and relatively painless relatively speaking.

Perhaps check out the new Civic Touring? Stellar reviews continuously pour in from all directions on how great it is, especially that new turbo motor paired to what is being touted as the best CVT on the market right now (6spd coming soon). Hondata tested the Touring back-to-back with several different 9th gen Si's and found it to be consistently quicker in every case.

Plus you get all those extra features never offered in the class like auto braking, adaptive cruise control, lane keeping assist, road/lane departure assist, forward collision assist, full LED headlights, front and rear heated seats, nav, CarPlay/Android Auto etc. etc.

And I don't know about the rest of you guys, but after seeing a few on the roads in black, gdamn the new Civic looks nothing like a Civic, in fact it looks really sexy, something I'd actually want to drive, especially for something that is under $30,000 fully loaded. Also tons of tuning potential with that new 1.5L motor, Injen just released a CAI for the new turbo Civic and the gains are staggering (http://www.civicx.com/threads/injen-intake-for-10th-gen-2016-civic-turbo-huge-power-gains.1976/).

I myself am considering a the 2-door coupe Touring when it is released. Looks out-of-this-world sexy in black. Just going to wait for the 6spd manual.

[Traum]

While the 2016 Civic has a really, really ugly rear end, the rest of the car is very, very nice as Akinari has mentioned. The car is very roomy everywhere, and it handles well. The 2.0L cars have a stop sale order due to an engine recall now, and those are the only ones that can be hand with a manual tranny for the moment. The 1.5T cars only come with the CVT for now, but the CVT seems to work very well.

As mentioned already, the Mazda6 is also a good option to consider. In fact, I find the 2016 Civic quite similar to the Mazda6 in many regards, although the 6 seems like a bigger, more powerful, and better handling version of the Civic.

But really, you need to get yourself this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJe82OGnI98

300+ hp Sienna that is faster than a V8 Camaro SS auto around the Streets of Willow

[Gucci Mane]

Well you said that you liked the CX-3 so maybe just look into one of those?

[heleu]

I have a 2 month old and also a 3 year old, so I'll add my two cents.

First off, don't decide on a car just to suit rear facing car seats. That phase ends in usually in a year (less if you had a chubby baby like mine). Front facing car seats take far less space. My friend does daily daycare duty with her 4 and 6 year olds in a Celica with two carseats in the back.

Secondly, it's worth paying extra for a more compact stroller (e.g. McClaren) so that you don't need a SUV/CUV to fit it in the trunk.

I drive a lot for work (different construction sites), so I didn't want to compromise my driving enjoyment just for some extra marginal utility.

My Mk7 GTI fits my family just fine as far as I'm concerned. 6 speed manual of course.

[roastpuff]

In preparation for my future family, I went to a truck. Ram 1500. Surprisingly it doesn't handle badly for such a big vehicle... and with the Hemi V8 it has lots of power in a straight line.

[Liquid_o2]

While the 2016 Civic has a really, really ugly rear end, the rest of the car is very, very nice as Akinari has mentioned. The car is very roomy everywhere, and it handles well. The 2.0L cars have a stop sale order due to an engine recall now, and those are the only ones that can be hand with a manual tranny for the moment. The 1.5T cars only come with the CVT for now, but the CVT seems to work very well.



I'm the complete opposite and don't mind the back but hate the front. There is something wrong with the proportions of the front end combined with the front wheel arches...

[Tapioca]

I have a 2 month old and also a 3 year old, so I'll add my two cents.

First off, don't decide on a car just to suit rear facing car seats. That phase ends in usually in a year (less if you had a chubby baby like mine). Front facing car seats take far less space. My friend does daily daycare duty with her 4 and 6 year olds in a Celica with two carseats in the back.

Secondly, it's worth paying extra for a more compact stroller (e.g. McClaren) so that you don't need a SUV/CUV to fit it in the trunk.

I drive a lot for work (different construction sites), so I didn't want to compromise my driving enjoyment just for some extra marginal utility.

My Mk7 GTI fits my family just fine as far as I'm concerned. 6 speed manual of course.

Appreciate the input. I know it's legal to have a forward facing convertible seat as year as 1 year, but I think the wife and I would like to keep the seat rear facing for as long as we can (e.g. until our daughter can no longer tolerate it). We're thinking about a second one sooner rather than later, so we may end up with the infant seat and rear facing convertible seat at the same time. Both seats are Britax which are not the largest seats, but not the smallest either. We like Britax, so when it's time to give up the bucket for good, we'll have two convertible Britax seats in the back.

We have an umbrella stroller in addition to our Baby Jogger. Not a Maclaren, but very similar. It stays in the trunk of our Mazda 3, while our Baby Jogger is saved for the rough sidewalks in our neighbourhood.

If Mazda still made a Mazda 6 wagon, I would probably be all over that. A hatch is so useful.

[Traum]

If Mazda still made a Mazda 6 wagon, I would probably be all over that. A hatch is so useful.
The CX-5 is essentially a lifted Mazda6 now. I know you've mentioned before that you don't particularly want an SUV, so I guess it is kind of a moot point.

[fliptuner]

While front facing seats might take up less space, the kids are also going to want to constantly kick the back of the front seat, unless you put it in the middle.

I was looking at Highlanders but goddamn, they're expensive. We'll probably look at new CX-5's soon. And yeah, Mazda 3's + jogging strollers (ie: Bob) = goodbye trunk.

[TypeRNammer]

I was looking at the Honda HRV and god damn its pricey when fully loaded. 35 grand taxes in.

[heleu]

Appreciate the input. I know it's legal to have a forward facing convertible seat as year as 1 year, but I think the wife and I would like to keep the seat rear facing for as long as we can (e.g. until our daughter can no longer tolerate it). We're thinking about a second one sooner rather than later, so we may end up with the infant seat and rear facing convertible seat at the same time. Both seats are Britax which are not the largest seats, but not the smallest either. We like Britax, so when it's time to give up the bucket for good, we'll have two convertible Britax seats in the back.

We have an umbrella stroller in addition to our Baby Jogger. Not a Maclaren, but very similar. It stays in the trunk of our Mazda 3, while our Baby Jogger is saved for the rough sidewalks in our neighbourhood.

If Mazda still made a Mazda 6 wagon, I would probably be all over that. A hatch is so useful.

Don't get me wrong, I do wish for more space, but I'm just not happy with the choices out there that are fun to drive. e.g. I wish that I could afford a Cayenne GTS manual.

The other thing I've realized is that 95% of the time, I don't need the extra space that a van/SUV would give me. I think if I do a road trip somewhere, I'm just going to rent a car.


While front facing seats might take up less space, the kids are also going to want to constantly kick the back of the front seat, unless you put it in the middle.


haha...I've given up on keeping the back of my seat clean. Also, the rubber mats in my GTI are staying there permanently. There's really no use putting in cloth mats with kids. Too many spills, muddy shoes, etc.

[hamhead]

dont know why you gave up the nissan rogue. i got one and its great for what i need it for.

roomy, functional, awd, easy to use, good on gas, decent driving dynamics (has the active trace control like torque vectoring, so turns great)

as for power on the rogue, it is not great, but its not a sports car, its a suv. i keep up with bigger cars fine, just set the cruise and leave it. so what if the engine revs high on highways in the rockies to keep up on hills or what not, thats what an engine is made for

[Gucci Mane]

dont know why you gave up the nissan rogue. i got one and its great for what i need it for.

roomy, functional, awd, easy to use, good on gas, decent driving dynamics (has the active trace control like torque vectoring, so turns great)

as for power on the rogue, it is not great, but its not a sports car, its a suv. i keep up with bigger cars fine, just set the cruise and leave it. so what if the engine revs high on highways in the rockies to keep up on hills or what not, thats what an engine is made for

the rogue comes with a cvt... might as well give up on life.

[toyota86]

Try looking at 05-09 legacy gt wagon or outback xt wagon in 5mt. Still a very basic, analog car, especially in the lower trims. They are basically a larger wrx with sti 2.5 instead of the wrx 2.0. Lots of things from the gd and gr/gv bolt up to it. They drive ok stock. Won't be as engaging as a BMW for sure but there is enough aftermarket support to fix that if one so chooses. People on forums make a big fuss about how these things blow turbos and eat itself. Mine is coming up on 270k on the original turbos with zero shaft play and the chassis feels a lot more solid than my e46 m3 with 160k and my e39 m5 with 250k.

[whitev70r]

Have you ever considered this unicorn ... unfortunately, you'd have to import it from US, a bit of work but can still be done personally (don't need importer). If only they had this in Canada it might just have everything you're looking for.

*** 2011 Acura TSX Sport Wagon w/Tech 4dr Sport Wagon w/Technology Package *** (http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/ctd/5751859461.html)

https://images.craigslist.org/00g0g_gjxsjshRSiC_600x450.jpg

[Tapioca]

Thread bump.

Well, it looks like another one is on the way, so this put my search for a newer car into high gear. After going over our budget and our needs, we ended up with a stripper model Mark VI Golf Wagon with the 2.5 engine. After test driving another example, I was pleased with the quiet cabin and the solidity of the chassis. My wife took it for a spin around the block and she finally understood what all the fuss of German-engineered cars is about. The backseat fit a rear-facing convertible car seat with enough room for my legs in the driver's seat. We were sold.

We take it home next week. It'll be the first VW for me, so hopefully, no exploding coil packs or broken window regulators. :lol