[skiiipi]

Time to ask Revscene for some career advice.

Up for a potential move with the company.....looks like my choices will be either Toronto and Calgary.

As some of you know, I work within the retail industry.

Compensation wise will be the same for both cities.

I'm curious as to which city is better to live in.
Both in terms of cost/life style.

For me Calgary is nice due to proximity to the mountains for winter sports such as skiing, and its relatively close to home (Vancouver) for me.

Toronto is more of the big city feel, I like fine dining, so there is more option for that there.

Taxes wise, I think calgary has lower income tax, so my net income will be slightly higher (not a huge difference). and housing wise, if I'm not mistaken Calgary would be a bit cheaper?

Any advice/input would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[Kilinim]

I think Toronto would be nicer or more comfortable to live in. But, with that comfort comes a fairly high cost of living.

Calgary, in my opinion, would be more affordable but wouldn't offer as much comfort as Toronto.

Pros and cons for each. Really up you and the lifestyle you lead. Good luck! Hopefully you still hook RS up with SC insider info ;)

[punkwax]

Toronto would likely bring more career opportunity and be a more exciting city to live in. Not to mention the proximity to major US cities.

I'd choose TO and wear a Canucks jersey every chance I got FeelsGoodMan

[bcrdukes]

Where do you want to be in the next 5 years?

[XplicitLuder]

TO is basically Vancouver 2.0 so if you like what you have here, it'll be pretty similar. Where as Calgary i think is more of country-outback feel

[skiiipi]

Where do you want to be in the next 5 years?

This will likely be a 3 or 4 year posting at the most.
I want to buy a condo where ever I end up, and I'm thinking right now Calgary might make a good investment with the oil bound to rebound at some point.

But on a business side, retail in Alberta is tough right now with the oil prices.
As for Toronto, I'm a little concerned at cost of living. Housing is more expensive out there so my quality of life might take a hit cause probably can't afford any place nice out there.

I really don't know much about either cities.
On a career side, both have their upsides.

Sport Chek head office is in Calgary so lots of exposure.
Canadian tire (our parent company) is in Toronto so also lots of exposure.

Really comes down to a lifestyle thing.
Good thing is I have until April to make a decision.

[bcrdukes]

Calgary is not as bad as people make it out to be. Just don't live in the sticks and you'll be fine.

I've spent a good amount of time in both cities, and yes, they both have their pros and cons when it comes to cost of living, quality of life, and future career prospects. You have to decide for yourself what you want within the next three to five years and go from there.

Also, I noticed in your signature your BMW M2 is arriving soon. In Toronto, you'll be driving a lot more (or not, depending on where you live) so factor in that as an added expense, and depreciating liability.

[skiiipi]

Calgary is not as bad as people make it out to be. Just don't live in the sticks and you'll be fine

Haha yes both cities will be a huge upgrade from where I am now.

[ScizzMoney]

I live in Calgary now (Going to school). But, when I'm back working and if I were making the same amount of money in whichever city I was in I'd probably choose Calgary. One thing that would be nice about Toronto though, is that it doesn't rely on the oil industry to thrive. Right now Calgary is a kind of uneasy place to be as a lot of people are feeling the pain from the oil industry going where it is. As soon as oil rebounds it will be a great place to be for work and advancing as a lot of people have been scared off and left.

Calgary winters are awesome. Summer here is pretty sweet too. Being a flight away from everything sometimes kind of sucks though. Toronto would be nice being so close to a few different places.

[skiiipi]

I live in Calgary now (Going to school). But, when I'm back working and if I were making the same amount of money in whichever city I was in I'd probably choose Calgary. One thing that would be nice about Toronto though, is that it doesn't rely on the oil industry to thrive. Right now Calgary is a kind of uneasy place to be as a lot of people are feeling the pain from the oil industry going where it is. As soon as oil rebounds it will be a great place to be for work and advancing as a lot of people have been scared off and left.

Calgary winters are awesome. Summer here is pretty sweet too. Being a flight away from everything sometimes kind of sucks though. Toronto would be nice being so close to a few different places.

yea i know what you mean by the oil effect.

I'm thinking from an investment stand point, if I was to go to Calgary now, I'm gonna buy a condo/townhouse for around 350K....and afaik the housing market dropped a bit in the past year with the cost of oil.
so say if in 3-4 years when I leave alberta, there is a chance the value of the condo will go up.

not I have no idea on the housing market in toronto, to see if there is the same growth potential or now when it comes to buying housing.

I agree both cities are nice, calgary is close to vancouver (home), and also close to banff and louise for skiing in the winter.
Toronto has a lot of amenities and lots to do, so i also wont be bored there.

tough choices to be honest......

[bcrdukes]

When in doubt, think long term.

[ScizzMoney]

If you're going to buy, I'd choose Calgary. That's if you're thinking 5 years anyway. I used to own two rentals here, and sold one last year. This one, I bought for around $310,000 and sold for $400,000. Now that same place is priced at around $330,000.

Housing here I think will still drop a little bit. Housing will bounce back pretty strong I feel though. This is the second recession I've been through in Alberta and as soon as oil comes back and companies are handing out signing bonuses like candy, housing prices will inflate for places in the $400,000-$700,000 range (the easily attainable single income mortgage range). Friends of mine that are in their 50s and 60s are saying that's what happened in the 80s as well. Companies will be fighting for workers and handing out money. There will be a shortage of trades to build houses so the supply of houses will in turn be low. In 2011 the amount of houses here where I was buying that were bought sight-unseen was crazy. If I wasn't in school I'd be buying property here.

[skiiipi]

If you're going to buy, I'd choose Calgary. That's if you're thinking 5 years anyway. I used to own two rentals here, and sold one last year. This one, I bought for around $310,000 and sold for $400,000. Now that same place is priced at around $330,000.

Housing here I think will still drop a little bit. Housing will bounce back pretty strong I feel though. This is the second recession I've been through in Alberta and as soon as oil comes back and companies are handing out signing bonuses like candy, housing prices will inflate for places in the $400,000-$700,000 range (the easily attainable single income mortgage range). Friends of mine that are in their 50s and 60s are saying that's what happened in the 80s as well. Companies will be fighting for workers and handing out money. There will be a shortage of trades to build houses so the supply of houses will in turn be low. In 2011 the amount of houses here where I was buying that were bought sight-unseen was crazy. If I wasn't in school I'd be buying property here.

yea having spent the last few years in fort mac, i'm fully aware of the volatility of oil.

thats what i'm thinking too, if compensation is equal for both cities
i might as well try to "gamble" on the real estate market for the 4-5 years that i'll be there for.

[lowside67]

If you are going to buy a place, go to Calgary, no questions asked. If you will have a stable job, a somewhat unstable place is always the spot for opportunity.

Mark

[ScizzMoney]

Oh, another thing if you choose Calgary. Get a place with a garage or at least a car port. So many hail damaged vehicles here.

[6793026]

I would stay away from Calgary. Think future and what does it mean:

1) In 5 years, will you still have the job? eg// laid off OR jump ship to bigger opportunities.
2) Yes you could buy a place, if you don't plan on keeping it for 5-8 yrs, you'll most likely really break even: lawyer fee, realtor fee, etc. (Unlike Vancouver market, unless you have land then yes pricing will go up but if it's a 30+ yr old apartment, you might only breaking even.)

# 1 is key. Friends come and go and you can always buy a new place anywhere. It's where the job opportunities are, and potential to leap to something better and Toronto is the place to be to take a risk.

[bcrdukes]

Food for thought but take this with a grain of salt.

Most of my circle of friends, be it from school or work who ended up moving to Toronto never came back to Vancouver and never will.

[skiiipi]

Food for thought but take this with a grain of salt.

Most of my circle of friends, be it from school or work who ended up moving to Toronto never came back to Vancouver and never will.

i gather its because they end up liking Toronto Better?

[CCA-Dave]

...and in my school of friends, I know lots of us who have moved from Toronto out west that you couldn't pay to move back there. We call it Onterrible for a reason.

-Dave

[skiiipi]

...and in my school of friends, I know lots of us who have moved from Toronto out west that you couldn't pay to move back there. We call it Onterrible for a reason.

-Dave

I'm still hoping for the slim chance of being offered something in Vancouver

but then again, I left Vancouver because there was no room for growth...and that still holds true today

While I make more money now than I did 4 years ago when I left Vancouver....I still can barely afford a townhouse in Richmond/Burnaby.....and I seriously don't feel like dumping $500k in to a shoebox apartment.

[6793026]

i have yet to hear someone who would want to move to Calgary and stays there.

It's always moving away from Calgary to Vancouver.

[skiiipi]

i have yet to hear someone who would want to move to Calgary and stays there.

It's always moving away from Calgary to Vancouver.

thats provided you can afford it
lots of people leaving vancouver to find better paying jobs and cheaper cost of living

vancouver would be good to come back to retire

[bcrdukes]

i gather its because they end up liking Toronto Better?

...and in my school of friends, I know lots of us who have moved from Toronto out west that you couldn't pay to move back there. We call it Onterrible for a reason.

-Dave

It's a bit of yes and no.

Yes, because they were very invested into their careers, and climbing the corporate ladder was their goal in life. They had financial and personal goals, and Toronto was a good fit for them.

CCA-Dave nailed it. The downside to that was giving up everything they had in Vancouver, especially their families only to live in Onterrible. And now that they want to move back, it's harder because they are older, have families, and are still invested into their careers. Coming back to Vancouver could get them a house, but would they be able to afford the same lifestyle as they have now in Toronto? Probably not.

Picture yourself in Toronto with your BMW M2, but with a Range Rover, two rental properties a house, wife, and two kids. That can be achieved in Toronto. But can you do that in Vancouver as easily?

The big bonus is that you can come back to Vancouver as long as you have family. Sometimes, our personal circumstances dictate our outcomes, so if you are willing to take the risk, and give something up, now, or later, there is no right or wrong decision you make whether it is to move to Calgary or Toronto, or to stay put in Vancouver.

[CCA-Dave]

Am I the only one who finds it odd, that OP is asking about what city is better to move to without doing any research about it before asking? I've contemplated moving to the island, and even before mentioning it to friends I had already been over twice on my own accord to "check it out". I spent a weekday and a day on a weekend in the town I was thinking of living in, worked out what stores and shops were there and how much mail-order I would have to do for things like my car hobby. I wanted to know about the housing market, so I went around for a day with a real-estate agent. It seems to me, the cost of taking two vacation trips to see what your living situation might be like is a small cost compared to being "stuck" somewhere you don't like for 5 years. Heck, I'd be pushing my boss for company-paid tour of both the Calgary and Toronto facilities.

I've been pretty careful to not comment on specifics about Toronto/Ontario, because the reason I call it "onterrible" isn't any reflection on why you may or may not enjoy it. In fact, there are things I definitely miss about the place. But overall they are minor and I still dread spending anything more than 3-days back there. But, that's me and I have very specific reasons why I feel that way.

It's not as simple as saying "if your career is the priority, go to Toronto", or "if you want to be close to family stay in Calgary". There are far too many factors. Lets take your after-work hours as an example. In an early post you highlighted the fact that Calgary being close to the mountains is a plus. What you may not realize, if you haven't spent time there, is that those mountains are good hour away. Calgary is FLAT. If, say, you enjoyed things like hiking, mountain biking, walking the dog, etc. You might actually enjoy living in certain parts of Toronto more than Calgary...because you can be out your door and in the woods in 5min. (SOME parts, not a generalization for the city). If, on the other hand, skiing and snowboarding are your priorities you'll find Toronto to be a joke. Small hills, rock-hard snow and lift lines that wrap around the lodge. If you're not a member of a private ski club, skiing in Ontario pales in comparison to the mountains.

If I were in your shoes, trying to make this decision I would do the following for each city:

1) work out exactly where I'll be working (address).
2) determine how long I'm willing to commute.
3) Using Google Maps, and the time-of-day function, start figuring out where in each city I could realistically commute from.
4) Using mls.ca start looking for properties I could purchase in the areas I determined from #3.
5) Using streetview and the satellite function 'drive around' the areas and see if I'm actually attracted to any of them.
6) Start reading the local newspaper for each city, and the communities that peaked my interest.
7) Go and VISIT each of the cities, testing my commute at actual commuting times to see what it's like. Spend two days in each (minimum) living as though I live there.

-Dave

[skiiipi]

Hey Dave

Appreciate your input.

You are right in that I don't know much about either city besides having been to both for work meetings.

Taking a trip out to both cities is not feasible right now, but once I do decide the company will let me take a few trips to go house hunting etc.

In terms of what I like to do outside of work , I enjoy going on spirited drives, skiing, mountain biking , eating out and shopping. The latter would probably be better in Toronto I assume.

So far based on what everyone is saying here, Toronto seems to be the better career opportunity with a good balance of life as well. I'm going to wait and try to get a bit more information from my employer before I comit to anything.

Truth be told, RS convinced me to make my last relocation move, so I figure I'll trust RS again to help me with this upcoming one.

[CCA-Dave]

In terms of what I like to do outside of work , I enjoy going on spirited drives, skiing, mountain biking , eating out and shopping. The latter would probably be better in Toronto I assume.


Spirited Drives - Neither. Well, Ontario has some great roads and I even run a CCA event there. But policing is nuts and 'spirited' means a whole different thing in Ontario. Now, if track days become your thing it's awesome. Mosport, Shannonville, Calabogie, etc. All close and great fun. But spirited driving using the twisty backroads is going to mean 10kph over the limit.

Skiing - Calgary. I grew up skiing in Ontario, and I love a carving day on corduroy more than most...but 30sec down, and 5min up (plus the line) are enough to have me keeping my skis here.

Mountain Biking - Toss up. If it's XC, there is a lot of nice riding in and/or close to Toronto. Don't expect to be going on rides longer than an hour, unless you like to loop and repeat trails. For DH, it's no contest. Calgary all the way. Toronto DOES have a very tight-night riding community though, and you should definitely join the ridingfeelsgood.com community. Lots of my lifelong friends are from that forum (back when it was called Dropmachine)

Eating out & Shopping - Probably Toronto...but neither are my area of expertise. I only ate one thing off my favourite restaurant's menu for 6 years...

So far based on what everyone is saying here, Toronto seems to be the better career opportunity with a good balance of life as well.

Whoa, careful with that one. "good balance of life and career" is not at all the way I would describe working in Toronto. If I were to generalize, careers in Toronto take priority over everything else. It's very hard for me to explain just how ingrained into Ontario culture it is, but decisions are made work-first...other stuff second. I mean, don't get me wrong there is a part of it that's incredibly satisfying and exciting. It's a phenomenon that's very hard to explain, but is a part of every one of my Ontario friends and family. I wouldn't call it "balanced", unless your career is absolutely one of your personal top priorities. In that case I think you'd argue it as balance. But its very different from a B.C. concept of "work/lifestyle" balance. VERY different.

Not wrong, not 'bad', but definitely not for everyone.

-Dave

[skiiipi]

So just an update

I've actually resigned from my position at Sport Chek after 13 years....and ended up accepting an offer from another (larger) retailer to be an Assistant store manager in Toronto.

So it looks like Toronto will be home for the next few years.

[mk1freak]

when you going?

[skiiipi]

when you going?

I start April 1

[mk1freak]

oh nice i'll be in toronto in may, i'll look you up, maybe ill buy something at your work :ifyouknow:

[bcrdukes]

Is this an April Fool's Joke? :troll:

[skiiipi]

Is this an April Fool's Joke? :troll:

Lol that would be cruel

[murd0c]

congrats, thats awesome and beyond exciting. I have two good friends that moved to Toronto last summer and they beyond love it. So many things to do, better restaurants then vancouver and super close to NY, Boston etc for weekend trips. I think you will really enjoy it.

[fliptuner]

I've actually resigned from my position at Sport Chek after 13 years....and ended up accepting an offer from another (larger) retailer to be an Assistant store manager in Toronto.

Victoria's Secret? :troll:

[Jmac]

If you're in retail, there's likely far more opportunities in Toronto than Calgary.

Edit: I'm late to the party. Congrats on the new position.

[skiiipi]

Victoria's Secret? :troll:

Lol...no

[mk1freak]

Lol...no
:seriously:
And here I was planning on buying something sexy I could wear in my hotel room :badpokerface:

[RabidRat]

I lived in Toronto for 3 years.

Too late to chime in (looks like you've already moved), but I would've said that 40 years later, would you rather look back on a portion of your life lived on the other side of the fence, really getting to know the culture out east, or would you rather have maybe an extra $30k in the bank because you lived in Calgary, with the lower living expenses?

I would've said that you don't get to know a place and its culture by visiting on vacation the same way that you do by settling down somewhere and making new lifelong friends. While this is true for both Toronto and Calgary, I think there's a lot more to get to know in one vs the other. And then there's the fact that Ottawa, Montreal, and NYC are all close by enough that you can spontaneously head out there for a weekend.

I would've said that you've had easy access to snowboarding and all the best that the west coast had to offer, all your life. But now you have the opportunity to experience something completely, wildly different than what you're used to, not just more of the same by moving one province over to Calgary.

[RabidRat]

Spirited Drives - Neither. Well, Ontario has some great roads and I even run a CCA event there. But policing is nuts and 'spirited' means a whole different thing in Ontario. Now, if track days become your thing it's awesome. Mosport, Shannonville, Calabogie, etc. All close and great fun. But spirited driving using the twisty backroads is going to mean 10kph over the limit.


Yeah aside from the fact that highways are 16 lanes wide and the flow of traffic is 120 kph (this was really gratifying for me after a lifetime of Hwy 1 loping along at 80 kph). Toronto is a little lacking vs Vancouver when it comes to avenues for spirited driving (ie there's nothing like the Sea 2 Sky). But there are tons of tracks there like Dave said: track days at Shannonville are about $100!! And Mosport is a Grand Prix level track. The GVRD has absolutely nothing on the GTA when it comes to accessibility / availability with motorsports.

Whoa, careful with that one. "good balance of life and career" is not at all the way I would describe working in Toronto. If I were to generalize, careers in Toronto take priority over everything else. It's very hard for me to explain just how ingrained into Ontario culture it is, but decisions are made work-first...other stuff second. I mean, don't get me wrong there is a part of it that's incredibly satisfying and exciting. It's a phenomenon that's very hard to explain, but is a part of every one of my Ontario friends and family. I wouldn't call it "balanced", unless your career is absolutely one of your personal top priorities. In that case I think you'd argue it as balance. But its very different from a B.C. concept of "work/lifestyle" balance. VERY different.

Not wrong, not 'bad', but definitely not for everyone.

-Dave

That's funny, I actually left Toronto because the environment wasn't sufficiently career-focused :)

[godwin]

It depends what you want out of your career.

GTA is a big area. You have to know where Canadian Tire is going to place you. Could be Mississuaga, Downtown? They are big differences.

With retail changing so rapidly, I think career wise it might be better to work for the parent company. You never know if they are going to pull a BestBuy vs FutureShop type thing. Toronto has more higher end sports chains like Sporting Life etc. Not to mention if you want to go south it is only a hope to downtown TO airport and an hour away.

I think the craziness in real estate in TO is within TO proper, there are plenty of places to sprawl.. surprisingly after leaving TO for a few decades.. I like the feel of Hamilton.. it has really changed.

[swiftshift]

5% Tax up in ALBERTA.

[BoS_DC2]

Late to chime in but here's my two cents anyways :badpokerface:


I recently moved back to Calgary after living in the lower mainland for over 20 years. The transition has been difficult for many reasons but Calgary has a lot to offer long term although the economy is to shits due to the oil situation.

It's already been discussed in here but the housing is affordable, much more so than in the lower mainland. <--- this is a major plus

Commute is relatively easy, can get to most places in 20-30 mins due to the free flowing freeways that intersect within the inner city.

I do miss the food scene in the lower mainland. It's mainly chinese/taiwanese cuisine that Calgary is lacking. The vietnamese food here is definitely a strong contender and I would bet that it's better than 80% of the vietnamese restaurants in Vancouver.

The weather has been good overall, it's a dryer climate but I don't quite mind it. At least when it's 29 degrees, it's bearable unlike Vancouver or Toronto. However, due to the dryness, it's been a constant struggle keeping hydrated and moisturized.

My main reason for the move is to buy a place and eventually start a family and I think that can be achieved much faster and efficiently in Calgary, over Vancouver.

Also, car insurance is wayyy cheaper here. My insurance coverage went from $1400 (ICBC) to $800 (Calgary) per year. I was stoked!

Haha.


OPJSalt

[Traum]

Hey Skiiipi,

It's been almost a month since you moved to TO. How are you liking it over there so far?

I remember when I first went there for school, I totally felt like a village boy being dumped into the metropolis. It was a major eye opener.

But I will always say Vancouver has the best LGs. :lawl:

[RabidRat]

It was a major eye opener.

For me as well. It was like "holy shit, so this is what a city is."

Every time I went back to Vancouver to visit, everything seemed hobbit sized :lol

Man, and the diversity. You really saw every ethnicity there, and had access to good food and the arts representing every culture.

[buhdeh]

For me as well. It was like "holy shit, so this is what a city is."

Every time I went back to Vancouver to visit, everything seemed hobbit sized :lol

Man, and the diversity. You really saw every ethnicity there, and had access to good food and the arts representing every culture.

lol yeah. The nightlife in Toronto completely destroys Vancouver as well. The number of bars and clubs in the city is pretty crazy (coming from Vancouver)... and they don't even have fake 40 minute lineups. The diversity I see is pretty great. Almost every group of people downtown is made up of mixed ethnicities while in Vancouver it's pretty much group of Asians, groups of brown guys, groups of white guys, etc.

[laklak]

Toronto.............

[skiiipi]

Hey Skiiipi,

It's been almost a month since you moved to TO. How are you liking it over there so far?

I remember when I first went there for school, I totally felt like a village boy being dumped into the metropolis. It was a major eye opener.

But I will always say Vancouver has the best LGs. :lawl:

Haha I am actually doing my training for my new job in Vancouver until July
And will be moving to Toronto mid July.

Meanwhile I'm back "home" in Vancouver enjoying the scenery (including the lgs lol)

[RabidRat]

Update!! :D

[skiiipi]

Update!! :D

Haha so been in Toronto for about 2 weeks now and so far I'm liking it. Living at bay & college downtown.

Not used to the heat and humidity yet, but I'm sure I'll adjust at some point.

[murd0c]

as soon as you get adjusted to the weather it will be winter and then you get hit with -40 and snow LMAO

[skiiipi]

as soon as you get adjusted to the weather it will be winter and then you get hit with -40 and snow LMAO

Haha I did 3 winters in Fort McMurray.....think I'll be able to handle the cold.

[RabidRat]

Haha so been in Toronto for about 2 weeks now and so far I'm liking it. Living at bay & college downtown.

Not used to the heat and humidity yet, but I'm sure I'll adjust at some point.

Nice!

So there's not only axe throwing, but knife throwing in Toronto too now:
TKTO | Toronto Knife Throwing ? Just the Tip (http://thetkto.com/)
Can you try this and report back to us? Lol.

Also, take a look into portaging:
Portages | Algonquin Provincial Park | The Friends of Algonquin Park (http://www.algonquinpark.on.ca/visit/camping/portages.php)

If you're into camping / backpacking this is like... an evolution of that. I did this twice out there and had a blast. Was disappointed to discover that this doesn't exist in BC or California.