[entrax]

Hey guys,

Just need some help brainstorming ideas/reasons why my friend's 2008 G35 sedan has had many issues with front rotors. Here's some info:

110k, journey trim, rwd, stock
- First had warped rotors around 80k, changed pads and used Lordco Rotors, passenger side caliper found sticking, rebuilt
- around 87k, warrantied Lordco, set aside, Raybestos "premium" rotors installed, investigated suspension, found one subframe bolt loose and tightened
- around 95k, warping again, sent to Infiniti dealership, $2500 for new oem calipers, oem pads, stillen rotors (upsold to be better), passenger side wheel bearing replaced due to heat build up from seized caliper. was hoping for an end-all solution here.
- 110k, warped again. confirmed warped stillen rotors. beyond 10k warranty I think. dealership also confirmed that calipers are not seized this time.

some ownership/driving habits/car's exposure to elements
- He does not drive the car hard at all, I've known the guy for 10 years and he's the kind of guy that wouldn't run out of brake pads on a corolla for 8 years (previous car). brakes early, lightly.
- Car is parked outside year round.
- Car is rarely washed, maybe twice a year at most.
- Average trip is around 15km/day? He's been driving less now as new office is downtown and skytrain is better.
- everything on the maintenance schedule has been followed, he even got told by dealership that some items are not needed yet (kudos to that advisor)

steering wheel vibrates under braking, strong enough to be alarming on the highway

He still has the old Lordco rotors sitting around is highly contemplating just throwing those back on and selling the car despite not wanting to get rid of the car. Any ideas appreciated as I'm totally out of them.

[smoothie.]

does he bed them in properly when new?

rotors can have pad deposits from new and just build on them no matter how light they drive. proper bed in may help

[!Aznboi128]

not sure if you have read this: -Warped- Brake Disc and Other Myths (http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/-warped-brake-disc-and-other-myths)

I always thought it was the way I drove too hard in traffic or too hard on the brakes but it was just really the bed in process.

In fact every case of "warped brake disc" that I have investigated, whether on a racing car or a street car, has turned out to be friction pad material transferred unevenly to the surface of the disc. This uneven deposition results in thickness variation (TV) or run-out due to hot spotting that occurred at elevated temperatures.

[BoostedBB6]

Common issue for some G35 owners.
The OE pads were know to cause this. Heat would cause them to almost melt to the rotors and then cause high spots and it feels just like a warped rotor.
Rotor gets hot, brakes applied and kepts on (stop light or traffic), pad material bonds to the rotor surface and over time it just makes it worse and worse.

Tell him to get the rotors turned and put some quality, NON-oe pads in there.

[entrax]

does he bed them in properly when new?

rotors can have pad deposits from new and just build on them no matter how light they drive. proper bed in may help

oh yeah, i knew i forgot something. i can't say what the dealer did immediately after installation, or if bedding in is part of the test drive after. however, he is aware of proper bed in procedures as we had to do them with the previous rotors. mild braking at first, avoiding coming to a dead stop as much as possible, no hard stops for 300km or so (he did this for 500km) and avoiding long stops from anything above 100km/h (let engine do some of the braking before using the brakes), increase brake pressures eventually. from what he tells me he's diligent about all of that, and the rotors were great for 13k or so this time around

[entrax]

Common issue for some G35 owners.
The OE pads were know to cause this. Heat would cause them to almost melt to the rotors and then cause high spots and it feels just like a warped rotor.
Rotor gets hot, brakes applied and kepts on (stop light or traffic), pad material bonds to the rotor surface and over time it just makes it worse and worse.

Tell him to get the rotors turned and put some quality, NON-oe pads in there.

Thanks, will try that. Any suggestions on pads?

Dealer won't touch the Stillen rotors. They are drilled (he didn't choose them) so turning them won't be an option. Perhaps the Lordco rotors on good pads.

@aznboi, good read. what do you think about braking too lightly? he's been like super religious about anything to do with brakes so i'm confident it was bed-in alright

[BoostedBB6]

Get good rotors, never put Lordco brand anything on a car if you are expecting to not have issues in short order.

The Stillen ones can be turned, just jacks up a set of bits for the machine. I would press them to have them machined as they upsold them.
Use a good, non-oe pads and things should be good to go on the Stillens or if you have to get a set of OE rotors on there with non-oe pads.

[ijaz_97]

I'm having the same issue with an 07 G Sedan. Pads and rotors were changed 10k ago and lately i've been getting a vibration while braking as well, also a slight whirring sound.

[entrax]

Well right now it's still being dealt with dealership. Hoping to get the rotors replaced. If not, there's some good advice on here to go on!

[knight604]

lol lordco rotors just stop

[entrax]

lol lordco rotors just stop

re-read OP.

that suggestion was because they're sitting in storage doing nothing. they came to be after they were tried before, then warrantied, but never used again due to obvious shittiness. after spending $2500 on brakes and not having it last a year, it's a matter of saving money and having the lordco shit last as long as possible. even if it lasts 5k, it holds off needing to spend anything more than $0 compared to them sitting pretty in a box.

to be clear: i think lordco rotors are shit. it's a matter of circumstance here. it is not a normal circumstance to spend that much on brakes in a matter of 10 months.

[cdizzle_996]

I had the same problem with my G35S.

Went with Stoptech blanks/Akebono pads 10k ago haven't had an issue.

[trollguy]

what's wrong with lordco rotors?

[fliptuner]

To add, if he's getting them machined, try to get them done while mounted on the hub.

[Inaii]

what's wrong with lordco rotors?

They're terrible and half the time are warped out of the box. (and this is coming from an employee :lol the countermen at my store won't sell the rotors unless the customer insists on being cheap)

[Gucci Mane]

lol lordco.

i've had good luck with napa rotors in the past.

[Jobo]

Lol reading is really hard for some people on this forum :rukidding:

[swfk]

lol lordco rotors just stop

Says the guy running Nexens :lawl:



:troll: luv u

[twitchyzero]

he is aware of proper bed in procedures as we had to do them with the previous rotors. mild braking at first, avoiding coming to a dead stop as much as possible, no hard stops for 300km or so (he did this for 500km) and avoiding long stops from anything above 100km/h (let engine do some of the braking before using the brakes), increase brake pressures eventually. from what he tells me he's diligent about all of that, and the rotors were great for 13k or so this time around

that sounds terribly complicated...just coast and not brake too heavily for 500 miles.

Infiniti charges $2.5K for a caliper + bearing and a brake job?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BguS0qQJpk4

[knight604]

Says the guy running Nexens :lawl:



:troll: luv u

free tires bro

[HKS PWR]

Infiniti charges $2.5K for a caliper + bearing and a brake job?



OEM calipers, OEM brakes pads, Stillen rotors and wheel bearing.....probably over $1600 in parts alone. And then you add in six to eight hours of labour @ probably $130/hour. I don't see a problem with that at all.

My issue would be having the same problem as before after spending all that money, though.

[R. Mutt]

Has he checked for suspension misalignment? Sounds to me the issue is more suspension related than actual brakes.

My reasoning is rotors are usually made out of cast iron and the term "warp" really is a poor saying that has become the norm over time. It is very difficult to warp cast iron. The heat necessary to do so isn't something the average road going car is able to produce.

What's more likely is distortion or grooving of the surface as a result of suspension and brake rotor misalignment which means that the pad isn't sitting flush with the rotor causing uneven surface wear.

Chances are that if this problem persists despite new rotors, pads et al the problem exists with the suspension. Even pot holes will cause suspension and brake misalignment and result in brake issues as they accumulate. Has he had the suspension checked out thoroughly and/or had an alignment done in recent history?

[BoostedBB6]

Has he checked for suspension misalignment? Sounds to me the issue is more suspension related than actual brakes.

My reasoning is rotors are usually made out of cast iron and the term "warp" really is a poor saying that has become the norm over time. It is very difficult to warp cast iron. The heat necessary to do so isn't something the average road going car is able to produce.

What's more likely is distortion or grooving of the surface as a result of suspension and brake rotor misalignment which means that the pad isn't sitting flush with the rotor causing uneven surface wear.

Chances are that if this problem persists despite new rotors, pads et al the problem exists with the suspension. Even pot holes will cause suspension and brake misalignment and result in brake issues as they accumulate. Has he had the suspension checked out thoroughly and/or had an alignment done in recent history?

Suspension will have 0 impact on brake components seeing as they are in fact attached to the bottom of the struts.
alignment can cause a vibration, but when you change your rotors and drive 10k with no more issue but comes back and again is remedied from rotors its very clear the issue is not the suspension. Not to mention G35's were known for this problem from day one and the easy fix was non-OE pads.

[Impreza]

Suspension will have 0 impact on brake components seeing as they are in fact attached to the bottom of the struts.
alignment can cause a vibration, but when you change your rotors and drive 10k with no more issue but comes back and again is remedied from rotors its very clear the issue is not the suspension. Not to mention G35's were known for this problem from day one and the easy fix was non-OE pads.



Having a bad shocks/struts do affect the brakes. If the front shocks/struts are gone when you step on the brakes your car will nose dive and make the front brake works harder because of the weight transfer. This can cause the front brakes to wear faster along with warped rotors. And as everyone says, Lordco rotors are crap.

[BoostedBB6]

Having a bad shocks/struts do affect the brakes. If the front shocks/struts are gone when you step on the brakes your car will nose dive and make the front brake works harder because of the weight transfer. This can cause the front brakes to wear faster along with warped rotors. And as everyone says, Lordco rotors are crap.

You do not have a pressure differential at one corner of the car due to weight transfer.
You can remove a shock even, its not going to effect how "hard" the brakes at that corner work. The pressure applied is the same at each corner. You will have a larger percentage of weight over that corner, but a blown strut will not effect enough of a weight transfer for it to make 1 iota of difference.
This is a know issue for G35's. The OE pads will deposit a lot of brake friction material on the rotor due to there construction and will cause the pulsation you feel as a warped rotor.

Some people have had luck with powerslot or slotted rotors and OE pads, but the easy thing is non-OE pads.
Again, alignment or suspension will not cause this. You can have a vibration due to suspension related issues but this is not what is happening. This is a brake related pulsation.

[Impreza]

Yes. The pressure of the hydraulic system is controlled by the driver and the pressure on the front left and front right should be the same. But having bad shocks/struts affect the stopping distance of your vehicle. So instead of braking normally you are now pressing the brake pedal harder trying to stop, this you put more pressure on the brake pedal which push more pressure on the brakes.

You can read up here. http://www.kyb.com/knowledge-center/shocks-101/what-worn-shocks-do/

[R. Mutt]

Suspension will have 0 impact on brake components seeing as they are in fact attached to the bottom of the struts.
alignment can cause a vibration, but when you change your rotors and drive 10k with no more issue but comes back and again is remedied from rotors its very clear the issue is not the suspension. Not to mention G35's were known for this problem from day one and the easy fix was non-OE pads.

I disagree because of my personal experience. I should have been more specific when I said suspension: steering geometry. There are two main reasons for brake vibration. The first is steering geometry issues and the second is installation or hub run-out issues. Both of these are components of a vehicle's suspension. Steering geometry issue can develop from hitting a curb or pot hole. I have had this very issue on my evo 9.

In my case the suspension was way out of alignment due to steering geometry issues and I developed groves in my rotors as they wore unevenly over time. Again note...this happened over time and wasn't something noticeable immediately. Of course I didn't know this at the time and as such couldn't resolve the issue despite trying different pad compounds until the car got another alignment as it turns out that the settings had deviated substantially due to another issue. This also resulted in wearing down a set of Michelin PSS down to almost no tread withing a 1.5 year time span and less than 10,000 miles. So yes suspension can have a huge impact on brakes among other components.

As per this being a G35 specific issue...you'd know more than me. However the fact remains that suspension can and will have a severe impact on braking. Moreover the OP stated

steering wheel vibrates under braking, strong enough to be alarming on the highway So once again...sounds like suspension related issue to me.

[BoostedBB6]

Yes. The pressure of the hydraulic system is controlled by the driver and the pressure on the front left and front right should be the same. But having bad shocks/struts affect the stopping distance of your vehicle. So instead of braking normally you are now pressing the brake pedal harder trying to stop, this you put more pressure on the brake pedal which push more pressure on the brakes.

You can read up here. KYB Americas | What worn shocks do (or don?t do) (http://www.kyb.com/knowledge-center/shocks-101/what-worn-shocks-do/)

Only way that makes enough of a difference in a average road going vehicle is with a completely obliterated suspension system and is not applicable to this situation at all.
In theory, yes having to push harder on the pedal to stop would cause increased heat, but AGAIN this is a road going car that's been maintained with all needed items. It does not have completely blown shocks allowing for such a drastic weight shift that he has to brake harder.

Far reach even if they were blown to say that this is the case as the springs are far more load bearing and don't simply fail.

Only time this would be a measurable effect on a car would be in a track situation under repeated heavy loadings.

This idea that the suspension (shocks) are so bad that they cause rotor warping (fyi, there not warped) is as applicable as saying a clean car gets better fuel milage than a dirty one because it has less wind resistance and weight. It is TRUE but it is so minute that there is no measurable quantity to show such a minor thing. Shocks being blown will kill stopping distance tho, but only because you no longer are able to maintain a consistent contact patch between the tire and road, not the brakes.

[BoostedBB6]

I disagree because of my personal experience. I should have been more specific when I said suspension: steering geometry. There are two main reasons for brake vibration. The first is steering geometry issues and the second is installation or hub run-out issues. Both of these are components of a vehicle's suspension. Steering geometry issue can develop from hitting a curb or pot hole. I have had this very issue on my evo 9.

In my case the suspension was way out of alignment due to steering geometry issues and I developed groves in my rotors as they wore unevenly over time. Again note...this happened over time and wasn't something noticeable immediately. Of course I didn't know this at the time and as such couldn't resolve the issue despite trying different pad compounds until the car got another alignment as it turns out that the settings had deviated substantially due to another issue. This also resulted in wearing down a set of Michelin PSS down to almost no tread withing a 1.5 year time span and less than 10,000 miles. So yes suspension can have a huge impact on brakes among other components.

As per this being a G35 specific issue...you'd know more than me. However the fact remains that suspension can and will have a severe impact on braking. Moreover the OP stated
So once again...sounds like suspension related issue to me.

OP has not abnormal tire wear issues, is a dealer service car with everything up to date and is driving a car KNOWN for brake issues causing pad transfer to the rotors due to the pad compound being used.

IF it has ANYTHING to do with the suspension the vibration at speed would be felt even after replacing calipers/rotors/pads, it would not be gone for 10k and then come back.

This has nothing to do with suspension, it is the pads. G35's had this issue, its well known. Hell, take a die grinder with a scuff cookie on there and just rip it across the rotors and make a fresh surface for the pads to contact and go for a drive, the vibration will be gone but will return after a short while as the pad material re-transfers to the rotor.

Unless your EVO 9 had its hubs changed when you had it aligned you had no brake issues. Caster, camber, toe and thrust angle are the standard things adjusted during an alignment, none of which have any impact on brake wear or function but they WILL destroy tires. You can disagree till your blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is there is no suspension geometry change that effect rotor to pad wear or alignment. If you find one I would love to know about it so I can better do my job ;)

[BoostedBB6]

Steering angle, wheel alignment, shocks, springs, unicorns will not do ANYTHING to the brakes of a car to increase wear.

On a G35, the caliper, hub and rotor are all ridged mounted to the knuckle. This knuckles moves as one (effecivly) solid unit. No matter how you change the steering angle or suspension you so not change how the pads contact the rotor, or the angle of the rotor to the caliper. They remain ridged mounted to the knuckle.
So no matter what you are lead to believe, having a bad alignment will not cause groves in your rotors. The rotor is mounted to the hub, the hub is mounted to the knuckle and the caliper is mounted to the knuckle.
With this setup, the ONLY way to do any damage to the rotor would be to damage the hub that's mounted to the knuckle. IF you managed to do this then you would have a rotor that is no longer aligned with the caliper and could cause issues HOWEVER on a vehicle like a G35 it would cause a significant wheel wobble, vibrations at almost ALL speeds and unless the guy has smashed both hubs equally, would not duplicate on the other side of the car like it has.

[cunninglinguist]

Maybe whoever put the wheels on over tightened the lug nuts.

[entrax]

for what its worth:

- i believe the dealer's consensus was definitely out of true rotors from diagnosis 2 days ago.

- steering vibration only happens when brake is applied. as a previous owner of a tercel with solid front discs small enough to fit 12" wheels on, i can relate to the owner regarding the steering vibration due to bad rotors. i saw the brakes recently, and there were no grooves found. to be clear, there is zero vibration at all when not on the brakes. you can drive this thing with your pinky finger nails with fake nails attached to it...until you need to brake. i read stuff and i believe it's because the hotspots/high spots as boostedbb6 has mentioned aren't in the same exact spots on the rotor from left to right, so if you imagine the pad contacting the rotor in slow motion, there's spots where the pad grabs the rotor more, but it's not the same left to right.

- tires were purchased new sometime around early 2015, michelin ps all season. i took his summer wheels off and put on his winters (separate sets) for him back in october and i noted even minimal wear across the tread. i think the fronts wore down 1/32 and rears by 2/32, or the other way around, no abnormal camber wear. car was driven to okanagan twice in the summer up and down coquihalla. rotors were fine then. it's probably been 4 months since those drives and only now has it been an issue

i believe the tires being okay deems the alignment decent, i'll ask if alignment has been done recently. hub run-out can be eliminated as this would have caused issues from day 1.

[fliptuner]

So at this point it's just a matter of cutting the rotors and trying out some (recommended) aftermarket pads.

[ncrx]

Damn with all that money spent
Could have gone with a nice 2 piece floating rotor and different pads.
A 2 piece rotor deals with expansion better

I dont know g37's, but torque wheels properly, check the front wheel bearing.
Dragging brakes slowly, as well as standing on them after a lot of usage tends to cause pad deposits. Shorten up those brake distances and use firmer brake applications.

[entrax]

@fliptuner yeah, seems like it

buddy took a photo of invoice. tax in wa $2501.10

wheel bearing is part of the hub = $336
each caliper = 459
that's already $1254 without the stillen rotors and pads or labour or tax.
i didn't bother asking for the 2nd page lol.

if you count the raybestos + lordco rotors + pads 6 months before that...the entire ordeal has been approx $3k in the last year. i keep telling him to just buy an mr2.

looks like the consensus has been:
cut rotors, non-oem pads, torque carefully, firmer brake, shorter time on the brakes. that should be more than enough advice to see if it makes a difference. maybe he was too easy on it after spending so much on it.

[cdizzle_996]

Well I paid $153us for both front Centric Parts 120.42095 rotors, paired with Akebono ACT1287 that were $53us and I havent had an issue in 10k.

I drive the car, I dont baby it. When I purchased it, it had "drilled and slotted" rotors and hawk pads that nearly rattled my shoulders out of their sockets.

[twitchyzero]

arent' getting half decent rotors (ie centrics) cheaper than turning the rotors?

[underscore]

If he's driving the car very little, and braking extremely gently all the time, then my guess would be build up on the rotors that's not getting cleaned off due to the lack of hard use.

[The_AK]

what's wrong with lordco rotors?

the fact that some of their off-brand parts cost the same as dealer is one of them

[extracrunchie]

I don't even bother resurfacing the rotors anymore, they cost practically the same.

Way easier to just replace them then to take the rotors off and get a shop to resurface it from a DIY'er perspective.

[SpuGen]

i keep telling him to just buy an mr2.

*Ahem*
I know of one for sale.

[cooke24]

does this g35 have the brembos?