[Traum]

Coles version:

- informal group has been playing chess at Park Royal for 25+ (possibly as much as 50?) years
- group has been playing at the food court
- group claims many of their players regularly buy food / drinks from the food court
- mall management did a "cost-benefits" analysis, and decided to kick this group out

West Vancouver's Park Royal drops curtain on 50 years of chess games (http://www.vancouversun.com/life/west+vancouver+park+royal+drops+curtain+years+ches s/11827554/story.html)

For the past 25 years, Fellows has visited the mall several times each week to play chess, visit with friends and decompress after a long day of work as an emergency physician.

But that long-standing tradition recently came to a sudden halt when mall management sent Fellows a letter ordering the group to “cease the use” of the Park Royal food court by March 31 or face serious consequences.

“If your group fails to comply it will give us no alternative but to reach out to the West Vancouver Police Department,” Park Royal general manager Karen Donald wrote in the March 22 letter. A carbon copy of the letter was sent to a WVPD sergeant.

...

According to Fellows, the letter followed two meetings with management, when mall representatives suggested to the chess players that a cost-benefit analysis had come out in favour of evicting them.

Mall representatives declined to comment, but Donald’s letter states that the food court must be kept free for paying food court customers. No-loitering signs have already been papered around the area, warning that seating should be limited to one hour.

But Fellows said he regularly buys snacks and drinks while he’s in the food court, as do many of his chess-playing friends.

The group is an informal one, not associated with any club, and players include pensioners, teens, doctors, dentists, janitors, dishwashers and international chess competitors. It also includes United Power president George Ingham, who turns 80 this month and has been playing at Park Royal for half a century.

“It is about getting together,” he explained.

Ingham described the mall’s ultimatum as “bizarre.” He said the players had in past years gathered at alternative locations in the mall at the request of management, and about two decades ago they even paid for their own chess tables to be put in. Those tables disappeared a few years back.

...

Mall management have suggested that the group move their games to rented rooms in the West Vancouver Seniors’ Activity Centre, the library or the community centre, and pledged a one-time donation of $500 to help cover rental costs.

:facepalm:

It really makes me wonder -- do these mall management staff even have a basic marketing / PR course under their belts? I understand that these chess players may not be the high profit customers that the mall is seeking, but there has to be some much smarter (but still effective) ways to dissuade them from staying.

And now it looks like they'll be in PR damage control mode.

[Liquid_o2]

As usual. Mall staff don't think of the repercussions this will have. Media and public will have an uproar over the next few days and the mall will welcome back the chess players begrudgingly.

West Van police lol.

[MG1]

I'd stop going to that mall on principle. Every mall has old people playing chess. It definitely adds to the atmosphere.

It irks me to no end how short sighted these mall people are. I hope people boycott the place. Fuck 'em.

[quasi]

I'm torn because part of me thinks this is dumb on levels by the mall however the other part of me believes that the mall is privately owned and if they don't want people in there playing chess they shouldn't be there. You can disagree with there reasoning for not having them there but at the end of the day they own the mall.

There are some public places they could go, I'm sure one of the Public Libraries or community centers owned by the City would have some space for them to play?

Dumb PR move though, not really I fully understand why they aren't wanted in the mall.

[Hondaracer]

It's private property. Doesn't really matter how long they've been going there.

Not a good PR move but it's their right. It's so gross how people just run to the media over shit like this.

Very srs, much importance in dis world.

If the mall wants to stick by their stance wait a week when no one cares anymore.

[inv4zn]

Serious question - in principle, how is this different than the community gardens on the Arbutus corridor?

If the group was occupying seats during busy times then I could see the reason; terrible PR move aside.

[Mr.HappySilp]

I sorta understand where they are coming from. Time to Time I see some type of people playing Chess/chess/cards etc etc...... most of the time it doesn't bother me but if the food court is a bit busy and people are looking for seats then it might cause potential customers to just go away.

[MG1]

At busy times, they need to put a stop watch on those high school kids who just hang out at the mall food court.

Kind of related..........Starbucks, lol. Students using space to study and surf. Some don't even have a drink. At least put a five hour limit........... some are there like all fricken day.

[Presto]

^^^

Damn right I'll be at Starbucks all day. Moving all that equipment is a bitch for only a few hours of use!
https://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/jUSuAfKeN1qvAKbYC0_38NPzPHA=/0x0:960x720/800x600/filters:format(webp)/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/48565063/starbucks-computer-guy.0.0.jpg

[GLOW]

kingsgate twitter account should take the opportunity to invite the chess players to their mall and troll park royal

[MG1]

I sorta understand where they are coming from. Time to Time I see some type of people playing Chess/chess/cards etc etc...... most of the time it doesn't bother me but if the food court is a bit busy and people are looking for seats then it might cause potential customers to just go away.

Totally understand that, but these people are there when nobody else is around. These old people should just stay in their seniors homes and not mingle with anyone younger than them.

Problem is, these chess people are semi organized. Easy to deal with. Young pimple-faced kids playing their video games with their buddies after school are much harder to pick on. Oh look, the mall is bustling with so many youngsters........... so hip. Those fucking seniors sitting there in the corner playing chess, wtf? I thought we kicked them out yesterday..........


Anyway, I don't hang out a malls, so no biggie for me. Yes, it's privately owned, but supported by the public. There's probably more to the story anyway. There always is.

[GLOW]

inb4 park royal says it was a misunderstanding as below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyVMiE7jAJo

[MG1]

kingsgate twitter account should take the opportunity to invite the chess players to their mall and troll park royal

Ah, Kingsgate Mall. If I were to hang out at any mall, that'd be my number one choice. Only problem is, no EV charge stations there, :lawl:

[GLOW]

Ah, Kingsgate Mall. If I were to hang out at any mall, that'd be my number one choice. Only problem is, no EV charge stations there, :lawl:

i think mount pleasant community centre has one but i think it's $1.50/30min paid parking

[MG1]

My range anxiety stopped as soon as I got my garage wired for 240 volt. Charging takes less than half the time. I don't worry about it as much........ go home, take shit, shave, shower, and I'm good to go again, lol. There's a shit load of charging stations popping up. Still two to five years before the Tesla 3 mania takes over, if it really does at all.

[winson604]

The article doesn't say but are they just taking a hard stance on their policy of 1 hr seating etc etc or did something else prompted them to make this decision i.e. they were there during prime time for long periods and people complained about not being able to find a table to eat?

I mean most malls i.e. Oakridge have shit loads of groups of old people going in the early AM, buying a coffee and they hang for hours. Tim of day doesn't affect anyone they are long gone by the time any lunch rush happens but they sure as hell are there for a while none the less.

[Gumby]

Wait MG1, what car do you have now? I thought you had a Honda of some sort...

[Traum]

Wait MG1, what car do you have now? I thought you had a Honda of some sort...
I think it's ILX + Leaf now.

Do I qualify for RS stalker status yet? :badpokerface:

[melloman]

I'd rather watch people play chess than just old people sitting around wasting space.
Metrotown's food court and seating area's are full of asian and east indian seniors who just sit around and talk or sleep. They don't spend a DIME while there, atleast the chess players buy food/drinks.

[GLOW]

I think it's ILX + Leaf now.

Do I qualify for RS stalker status yet? :badpokerface:

i thought it was an electric smartcar

[Great68]

One of the local Victoria Strip malls tried to kick out a group of Hot Rodders/Classic Car Owners that would meet up at the coffee place every Friday for 10+ years.
One day the Property Manager just showed up and started handing out parking tickets.

That of course didn't go over very well, the bad media hit to the Property Manager, threats of boycots etc... eventually had them backpedalling, but the damage had already been done and I don't think it's been the same since.

Edit: All the bad press for Hansbraun could have been avoided if they tried talking to the hotrodders first, explaining their concerns and giving them some warning that they were taking issue with the rodders' meetups rather than just showing up one day and giving out tickets.

Sounds like same thing for Park Royal in this case, if they just said:
"Hey chess playing guys, you're taking up a lot of tables for a long time that other paying customers can't find seats, let's find a solution"

rather than just saying:
"You guys gotta stop freeloading off our tables and chairs and get the fuck out"

I think it might have gone down quite differently in the media.

[StylinRed]

Malls are very empty these days as it is, is kicking out established, dedicated, vociferous customers ever a good idea? No, they're idiots, did the management's homeschooled accountants do this analysis?

[frozen]

The article does not in any way sheds light on if the Mall management ever had any discussion with these chess players. I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt that at least they tried to find some solutions before going all out and sticking it to these chess players.

Either I don't think the damage is gonna be as great as people exaggerate it to be. People who need to shop there will continue to shop and things like this will be forgotten rather quickly.

[Eff-1]

The article does not in any way sheds light on if the Mall management ever had any discussion with these chess players. I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt that at least they tried to find some solutions before going all out and sticking it to these chess players.

Either I don't think the damage is gonna be as great as people exaggerate it to be. People who need to shop there will continue to shop and things like this will be forgotten rather quickly.

In the article is a copy of the letter the mall sent to the players, confirming they had discussions and the mall tried to help them find solutions at another venue: https://www.scribd.com/doc/306874025/Park-Royal-Letter-to-Chess-Group-032016

I remember when I was a kid, we'd go to Park Royal and I'd always notice the old people playing chess in the mall. But the difference back then was the chess playing happened in the atrium, not in the food court. The mall had even purpose built a giant chess board with 3 feet tall pieces.

Here's a photo of it: http://www.leespage.ca/h/articles0/chess_board_park_royal_mall.jpg

The difference is now the mall has been renovated completely and is trying to create a higher-end image. The only place left for the chess players is the brand new food court and the mall doesn't see chess players as being part of it. I can kind of understand the mall's position. It's a new era. But that's kind of harsh for the mall to threaten to call the police. I'm sure the police don't want to waste time dealing with a bunch of chess-playing senior citizen hooligans.

I think ultimately the chess players will lose out, public will be angry for a few days, the mall gets some bad PR, but then everyone moves on with their lives. A sign of the times I guess.

[adambomb]

My range anxiety stopped as soon as I got my garage wired for 240 volt. Charging takes less than half the time. I don't worry about it as much........ go home, take shit, shave, shower, and I'm good to go again, lol. There's a shit load of charging stations popping up. Still two to five years before the Tesla 3 mania takes over, if it really does at all.


This thread is now about old people since the resident RS "old guy" just popped in and made an unrelated post.

Which one of those old guys playing chess has an onion on his belt?

:fullofwin:

[meme405]

This is non-sense, the part that peeves me the most is that the seniors group actually paid for the installation of one of those big chess boards with the pieces in the mall years ago. I remember playing with them at the mall when I was a kid (this was 15 years ago).

Since then that board was removed during one of the 3 food court moves. Mall management for PR is just ridiculous...

[carisear]

man, having those giant chess pieces are a draw imo. When I went to Santa Monica, I made sure to hit up the chess park.

Oh well. in 10 days no one will remember anything about this, and Park Royal will have a couple extra seats available.

[twitchyzero]

if you paid for food and are not disruptive..it's fair game

if you just go and sit there for hours without buying food...then they have every right to ask you to leave the private property regardless of how many years a certain group has been congregating there.

i'm sure most of them bought a coffee/tea during their chess match

this has nothing to do with age...i don't understand why there's negativity against teenagers at the mall if they are not causing any rukus.

yes I'm the type who'll buy a beverage and sit at a shop for hours studying

[Traum]

I think ultimately the chess players will lose out, public will be angry for a few days, the mall gets some bad PR, but then everyone moves on with their lives. A sign of the times I guess.
Sadly, I'd have to agree with you here as what you've described is precisely what I'd expect to play out.

As I get older, it seems like I've become less forgiving on these matters.

[Hondaracer]

if you paid for food and are not disruptive..it's fair game

if you just go and sit there for hours without buying food...then they have every right to ask you to leave the private property regardless of how many years a certain group has been congregating there.

i'm sure most of them bought a coffee/tea during their chess match

this has nothing to do with age...i don't understand why there's negativity against teenagers at the mall if they are not causing any rukus.

yes I'm the type who'll buy a beverage and sit at a shop for hours studying

a teenager hanging around the mall/food court is also probably much more likely to actually buy somthing from the mall/food court, they have disposable income and it's burning a hole in their pocket.

the seniors on the other hand could chill for the day with a cup of hot water.

[Galactic_Phantom]

a teenager hanging around the mall/food court is also probably much more likely to actually buy somthing from the mall/food court, they have disposable income and it's burning a hole in their pocket.

the seniors on the other hand could chill for the day with a cup of hot water.

:fuckthatshit: mall rats probably have no money for anything, and do nothing but cause trouble

[CP.AR]

who used to play pokemon cards in Lansdowne mall? damn that was the heyday of Lansdowne.

[inv4zn]

I remember when I was a kid, we'd go to Park Royal and I'd always notice the old people playing chess in the mall. But the difference back then was the chess playing happened in the atrium, not in the food court. The mall had even purpose built a giant chess board with 3 feet tall pieces.
Here's a photo of it: http://www.leespage.ca/h/articles0/chess_board_park_royal_mall.jpg

I didn't realize seniors grew to 11 feet tall back in the day :troll:

[bcrdukes]

who used to play pokemon cards in Lansdowne mall? damn that was the heyday of Lansdowne.

I think people here on Revscene went as far back as to playing Magic cards at the Lansdowne Mall foodcourt.

[underscore]

People always talk about "how could they not think of the PR?" when really everyone will forget this in a week and only a handful of people might use the mall less than before.

[GLOW]

saw the story on ctv news hour this morning

[6o4__boi]

who used to play pokemon cards in Lansdowne mall? damn that was the heyday of Lansdowne.

On the way to Lansdowne like...

"what the hell is all that rattling on your bag?"

"it's my pokemon card damage counters..." :derp:

[Dragon-88]

Traffics crap around that mall anyways.. I've never been. Never plan to. I usually just use its side roads to get past Lions Gate traffic..

[ImportPsycho]

Doesn't bother me at all.
This actually made a news?

[dat_steve]

not like that mall is uber busy anyway. who cares if there are a few more bodies filling up the food court. if anything that makes the mall more appealing imo.

[meme405]

Traffics crap around that mall anyways.. I've never been. Never plan to. I usually just use its side roads to get past Lions Gate traffic..

It's actually a pretty good mall. the traffic wasn't so bad, but the recent renovations to the south side have made it a bit of a nightmare the last 2 years. After those are complete though it should be back to normal.

Honestly PR is miles better than Capilano mall, it's got free parking so that makes it better than pacific center, the traffic is nothing like any of the malls in richmond, construction around brentwood rules that out, lougheed sucks.

Basically the only mall better than PR is metrotown. That's how I see it atleast....:derp:

[twitchyzero]

going OT now but I feel traffic on the north shore is definitely one of the worst in town. Upper level, or marine drive. What clusterfuck.

The only thing worse is maybe downtown and massey tunnel. Yes I actually believe Richmond traffic at peak hour is less congested than West/North Van

[meme405]

going OT now but I feel traffic on the north shore is definitely one of the worst in town. Upper level, or marine drive. What clusterfuck.

The only thing worse is maybe downtown and massey tunnel. Yes I actually believe Richmond traffic at peak hour is less congested than West/North Van

I guess I really don't drive in richmond, I avoid it like the plague. Just hearing all the stories of mall parking lots like aberdeen and whatever I assumed it would be worse than north shore.

For the most part it is getting on or off the north shore that is the pain in the ass, if you are just travelling throughout the region 95% of the time you won't hit any traffic beyond the regular stoplights and stuff.

[MG1]

Massey tunnel is a nightmare........... probably why that new mall in Tsawassen <Sp?> that's going up makes a bit more sense for people south of the mighty Fraser.

Since this thread is now about traffic tie ups, lol.

In other news, I'm surprised the media hasn't used words like checkmate, en passant, stalemate in their headlines when reporting on the old chess geezers being asked to scram.

[Presto]

^^^
Because angry letters from seniors.

[GLOW]

Massey tunnel is a nightmare........... probably why that new mall in Tsawassen <Sp?> that's going up makes a bit more sense for people south of the mighty Fraser.

Since this thread is now about traffic tie ups, lol.

In other news, I'm surprised the media hasn't used words like checkmate, en passant, stalemate in their headlines when reporting on the old chess geezers being asked to scram.

come now MG...the chess senior folks are not the media's pawn

i'll show myself out now ...

[dat_steve]

In other news, I'm surprised the media hasn't used words like checkmate, en passant, stalemate in their headlines when reporting on the old chess geezers being asked to scram.

Perhaps they took the opportunity to be better than that. Puns are such a...rook-ie move.

[Traum]

Park Royal chess players get alternative offers for a place to play | Vancouver Sun (http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/park-royal-chess-players-get-alternative-offers-for-a-place-to-play)

Apparently, Whole Foods and White Spot stepped up -- good for them to do so:

Park Royal tenants Whole Foods Market and White Spot have stepped up and offered a group of chess enthusiasts a place to play after the players were recently ordered out of the mall’s food court, chess player George Ingham said Friday.

“Whole Foods said yesterday they’d open up a spot for us and White Spot said today they’d open up a spot,” said Ingham. “They said ‘make sure you guys come here if you have to’.”

A ragtag group of chess players have been playing regularly at Park Royal for decades, but the long-standing tradition recently came to a sudden halt when mall management sent out a letter March 31 ordering the group to “cease the use” of the food court or face serious consequences because the food court must be kept free for paying food court customers.

Ingham said they met with mall management Thursday and were offered an outside space, but no final decision has been made on how the impasse will be resolved.
I've never been to this particular Whole Foods before. But if it is anything similar to the one on Cambie, I'd say it is probably a much better place than White Spot is for these chess players to play. It'd be more casual, and it'd be easier for them to make whatever purchases in a manner similar to what they did back at the food court.