[GoldenBoy]

If these guys strike I wonder how long it'd be before they're begging to go back to work? It's not cheap to live here, miss a pay cheque and you're that much closer to living on the streets.


Metro Vancouver transit operators to take strike vote - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/metro-vancouver-transit-strike-vote-1.3543989)

Bus drivers, SeaBus workers and other Metro Vancouver transit operators are taking a strike vote after the collapse of contract talks, according to Unifor, the union representing 4,700 transit workers.

The strike vote is scheduled for April 28.

"Drivers deserve fair wages and working conditions — so to demand bus drivers take concessions when they have some of the toughest jobs around is simply insulting," said Unifor Local 111 president Nathan Woods.

The union says talks began, Feb. 17, and broke off April 6 after Coast Mountain Bus Company, a TransLink subsidiary, "continued to demand concessions and refused to table a fair wage offer."

Woods says wages, benefits and working conditions are key issues at the bargaining table, as well as concerns about contracting out of service workers and maintenance staff.

Wages for transit operators currently start at $19.57 an hour and top out at $30.91 within two years of employment, which Woods said is a lower wage than other workers in similar positions in B.C.

The vote affects bus drivers, mechanics, SeaBus operators as well as maintenance and other support workers.

"We can still get an agreement without any service disruption if CMBC comes back to the table with a fair wage increase and without unfair concession demands," Woods said.

The Coast Mountain Bus Company says it has been "working hard" with the unions to renew the collective agreement.

The company said it would not be commenting any further in order to "protect the integrity of the process."

Any potential strike action would not affect SkyTrain service.

The last transit operators strike in Vancouver was in 2001. It lasted four months.

[TOS'd]

Nice.

[yray]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/TACa9mExYFI/maxresdefault.jpg

to pick up the chicks at the bus stop

[dvst8]

"Drivers deserve fair wages and working conditions — so to demand bus drivers take concessions when they have some of the toughest jobs around is simply insulting," said Unifor Local 111 president Nathan Woods.


Give me a break unions...30$/hr to drive and deal the public is very well compensated in my opinion....

Bus Driver Salary (Canada) (http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Job=Bus_Driver/Hourly_Rate)

[twitchyzero]

toughest jobs around? please

i'm not saying it's an easy job, then again most jobs aren't.

$30/h + union + benefits within 2 yrs for something that doesn't require education sounds like a good deal.

[TOPEC]

they totally do not deserve any raises after seeing this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuPG8utxJDU

ur freaking job is to drive a bus from point A to point B and u managed to fuck it up...

[Culverin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU



Soon. :)

[meme405]

A quick google search shows that current long haul driving positions (Class 1 required) pay from 25 to 35 an hour.

Why do transit operators believe they should be paid more than these drivers?

A 2nd year apprentice tradesperson (a position which requires around the equivalent experience to max the transit operators salary) currently makes around 24-27 an hour. A journeyman makes 30-35 (after 4-5 years of work and school). This is all for in town jobs, and depends on your union or Labor association. Why do bus drivers, a position which requires ZERO investment in schooling, or training believe they deserve to be paid more than tradespeople. Also I'd argue that driving a bus is a lot less physically tolling and damaging than working from steel, around heavy machinery or welding, although I'm sure there is some bus driver out there who will complain about how physically damaging it is sitting in a seat all day just like how every 9-5 office worker does.

[MarkyMark]

Instead of arguing about how they make more than other jobs which require skills, how about using that argument to raise their own wages as well? Feels like a race to the bottom these days. $30 an hour isn't fuck all anymore.

[Noir]

So let this be a lesson for our upcoming generation.

When aspiring what you want to be when you grow up, don't aspire which field best matches your personal interest, aspire which field has the best union representation :)


i kid.

[twitchyzero]

Instead of arguing about how they make more than other jobs which require skills, how about using that argument to raise their own wages as well? Feels like a race to the bottom these days. $30 an hour isn't fuck all anymore.

easier said than done, esp if you're not in an union.

is $30/h a lot in Vancouver? no

$30 with benefits? not bad

is it very fair for position that requires zero education and isn't physically taxing? I think so...but I can't say for sure unless I've tried it myself. All I know was in grade 11 a classmate was already an operator at that age (possibly community shuttles). But yyou have to deal with bums and shitty customers? which applies to a wide range of minimum wage jobs. The only real risk I can think of is getting assaulted by riders and quite rare...but should that be reflected in a wage?

They have not striked for 15 years so if it they vote for one I can understand. Just that the union statement above (like many union reps) is borderline comical.

[Armind]

How bout them getting to the bus stops on time ffs.

[MarkyMark]

easier said than done, esp if you're not in an union.

is $30/h a lot in Vancouver? no

$30 with benefits? not bad

is it very fair for position that requires zero education and isn't physically taxing? I think so...but I can't say for sure unless I've tried it myself. All I know was in grade 11 a classmate was already an operator at that age (possibly community shuttles). But yyou have to deal with bums and shitty customers? which applies to a wide range of minimum wage jobs. The only real risk I can think of is getting assaulted by riders and quite rare...but should that be reflected in a wage?

They have not striked for 15 years so if it they vote for one I can understand. Just that the union statement above (like many union reps) is borderline comical.

All I'm saying is in a time where things are more expensive than ever, we shouldn't be bitching about someone making a decent living wage, we should be fighting for more people to have that opportunity. You shouldn't need a degree to put a roof over your head.

[meme405]

All I'm saying is in a time where things are more expensive than ever, we shouldn't be bitching about someone making a decent living wage, we should be fighting for more people to have that opportunity. You shouldn't need a degree to put a roof over your head.

I've heard this "race to the bottom" line before, I believe the last person to use it was multicartual.

The thing is this, and I struck the exact same defensive position for the teachers strike. If people thought the wage for the position was not enough, they wouldn't be looking for employment in that position, they would look elsewhere for work. And yet just like the teachers, there is a waitlist in order to become a translink driver. There are vastly more people willing, capable and qualified to do the job than there is positions available to fill.

That indicates to me that there is a discrepancy between the wage and the actual difficulty of the position trying to be filled.

The thing with unions is that they use their numbers to bully employers and artificially drive their wages up past the market equilibrium point. Normally I don't care whatsoever, but once it becomes a union of civil servants, for which my taxes directly go towards paying (my already steep taxes), then my opinion on the matter starts to grow.

I encourage everyone who is frustrated by their high level of taxes think about where this extra money for these bus drivers is going to come from when they defend the position of those transit unions. If your willing to take another hike in translinks prices, and a hike in your taxes to pay for their raises, then that's one thing, but more than likely your not going to want to do that. So then where would you like this money to come from? Would you like to see some taken away from our schools? Our hospitals? Perhaps you believe our MP's get paid too much (Probably true)?

[Adorkami]

meme beat me to it

[MarkyMark]

I've heard this "race to the bottom" line before, I believe the last person to use it was multicartual.

The thing is this, and I struck the exact same defensive position for the teachers strike. If people thought the wage for the position was not enough, they wouldn't be looking for employment in that position, they would look elsewhere for work. And yet just like the teachers, there is a waitlist in order to become a translink driver. There are vastly more people willing, capable and qualified to do the job than there is positions available to fill.

That indicates to me that there is a discrepancy between the wage and the actual difficulty of the position trying to be filled.

The thing with unions is that they use their numbers to bully employers and artificially drive their wages up past the market equilibrium point. Normally I don't care whatsoever, but once it becomes a union of civil servants, for which my taxes directly go towards paying (my already steep taxes), then my opinion on the matter starts to grow.

I encourage everyone who is frustrated by their high level of taxes think about where this extra money for these bus drivers is going to come from when they defend the position of those transit unions. If your willing to take another hike in translinks prices, and a hike in your taxes to pay for their raises, then that's one thing, but more than likely your not going to want to do that. So then where would you like this money to come from? Would you like to see some taken away from our schools? Our hospitals? Perhaps you believe our MP's get paid too much (Probably true)?

Why is there wait lists for those jobs even though they don't pay enough? Probably because what is the alternative? There aren't enough high paying jobs to go around so you're forced to take an "okay" paying job with hopes that one day it could become better paying. It's not like people are turning down all these 100k a year jobs to become a bus driver, it's that or minimum wage or lifting heavy boxes for 15 bucks and hour.

[Digitalis]

How about they properly implement compass like octopus and charge people per stop to give themselves a raise and charge those who are actually using the system?
How about instead of having a dumbass screen that shows everyone inline behind you how much balance u have left u do it octopus style facing down up so only the person scanning can see it?

[604STIG]

Just an FYI, cause a lot of people are under the impression that the drivers are looking for higher wages. The drivers and the Union are NOT looking for a wage increases, they are trying to fend off a wage cut. Now i'm sure most of us on here would defend our positions as well if our employer(s) approached us and said they want us to take a 10% pay cut.

And full disclosure, my father is a translink bus driver.

[MarkyMark]

Just an FYI, cause a lot of people are under the impression that the drivers are looking for higher wages. The drivers and the Union are NOT looking for a wage increases, they are trying to fend off a wage cut. Now i'm sure most of us on here would defend our positions as well if our employer(s) approached us and said they want us to take a 10% pay cut.

And full disclosure, my father is a translink bus driver.

Pretty safe to say no one in here would take a wage cut laying down. But when it happens to other people and tax money pays for it that's fine cut away.

[Carl Johnson]

$31/hr within 2 years seems like a stupendously good deal for someone without any form of post-secondary education as a job requirement. In my opinion, even at $20-23/hr driving a bus seems well paid. I would dare the union to try for a strike because it would only shoot itself in the foot because the general public is probably not on its side.

[MarkyMark]

$31/hr within 2 years seems like a stupendously good deal for someone without any form of post-secondary education as a job requirement. In my opinion, even at $20-23/hr driving a bus seems well paid.

Go look at the long shoreman wages if you think this Union is good

[Carl Johnson]

How many long shoreman versus transit bus drivers though? Just the 99 B-line to UBC alone probably has enough driver to match the amount of long shoreman.

[MarkyMark]

How many long shoreman versus transit bus drivers though? Just the 99 B-line to UBC alone probably has enough driver to match the amount of long shoreman.

There are tons of long shoreman I'm not sure of the numbers but I wouldn't be shocked if it tops bus drivers

[PiuYi]

How about instead of having a dumbass screen that shows everyone inline behind you how much balance u have left u do it octopus style facing down up so only the person scanning can see it?

the person who designed those gates needs to be shot. Why in the fucking fuck do we need big LCD screens to show a damn number? AND FACING HORIZONTAL TOO

and the fucking gates themselves, we're not fucking horses waiting to start at a racetrack, just put damn turnstiles in

[6o4__boi]

fyi there are about 3000 longshoremen in BC
to 4700 translink workers that might potentially go on strike

hard to compare the two seeing as you basically have to be related to a longshoreman or be part of an affiliated gang to get in


sauce:
Hard Work, Big Gains for Young Union Worker | The Tyee (http://thetyee.ca/News/2013/09/02/Young-Union-Worker-Gains/)
Metro Vancouver transit workers to vote on strike | CTV Vancouver News (http://bc.ctvnews.ca/metro-vancouver-transit-workers-to-vote-on-strike-1.2866459)

[Carl Johnson]

Well I guess I wasn't aware there are that many longshoreman. But like someone said above, a 10% pay cut, these guys still getting $28/hr! That is outrageously generous compare to other industries.

I am very surprised the new Translink CEO, Kevin Desmond, we got from Seattle (which has one of the best public transit network) didn't drive (no pun intended) a harder bargain.

[Adorkami]

Just grandfather what they have and implement a lower wage for those that they hire with it taking around 5 years to reach the max which would be set at a lower rate than what it currently is.

[6o4__boi]

solution

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/2066990/images/o-VINCE-READY-facebook.jpg

[MarkyMark]

Well I guess I wasn't aware there are that many longshoreman. But like someone said above, a 10% pay cut, these guys still getting $28/hr! That is outrageously generous compare to other industries.

I am very surprised the new Translink CEO, Kevin Desmond, we got from Seattle (which has one of the best public transit network) didn't drive (no pun intended) a harder bargain.

Tell that to anyone though, even a guy making 5 million a year would most likely scoff at the idea of losing 10% of his wages. When you are accustomed to a wage, pay your bills/mortgage around that wage, and suddenly they want to take 10% away that isn't peanuts.

Sure grandfather those wages, then good luck ever seeing a raise ever again till you retire.

[smoothie.]

Well I guess I wasn't aware there are that many longshoreman. But like someone said above, a 10% pay cut, these guys still getting $28/hr! That is outrageously generous compare to other industries.

I am very surprised the new Translink CEO, Kevin Desmond, we got from Seattle (which has one of the best public transit network) didn't drive (no pun intended) a harder bargain.

everyone I know in seattle drives a car and has nothing nice to say about public transit.....

:heckno:

[FerrariEnzo]

Man if they get wage increase, you can be sure Translink will ask for more money from tax payers... in the end, tax payers suffer....

[Gunsmokez]

This is not about how much the drivers make. To be honest, we are not even asking for more money. 1% increase is comical and no point even arguing about .

The issue is , on the back end that passengers and the public don't know about. Its issues that will directly affect the drivers working conditions.

Everyone always says we get paid etc too much. But, if you think we get paid too much you are more then welcome to apply! WE ARE HIRING!

You have to remember, we have taken concessions for the last 10 years! In a effort to help the company make ends meet. We even extended our contract by a year , because we didn't want to have bargaining during the plebiscite and during the new CEO etc.

Eventually, you have to ask yourself as a working individual when do we stop taking concessions? Enough is enough.

Just wanted to also point out, that we Also agreed to let them cut down over 250,000 hours! over the last 3 years. Again this was to help the company make budget quotas. Then I see news , of CEOS making Bonus's :(

[mr00jimbo]

I think there's a lot of stress factors for driving a bus that people don't consider.

Some days i don't even like driving my mid-sized car through Vancouver by myself. Think about driving a huge metal tube where jay-walkers, cyclists, inattentive drivers, etc. zip around you, don't yield to you, etc.

Think about the clientele that you have to deal with. You get verbally abused, physically assaulted, etc. There are a lot of angry people in this world who will take their anger out on you because you're...there. Drunk people, etc. If somebody's standing at a bus stop, you have to take them.

I worked for a year with parolees (violent offenders, sex offenders, etc.) and generally felt safe all but a couple of times. But i don't think I could deal with the people that bus drivers deal with.

I don't know WHAT the going pay should be for them. But I wouldn't call the job easy and I wouldn't be quick to dismiss how hard bus drivers work.

The problem with Translink seems to be that it's very top heavy. A lot of executives, etc. make the lions share. Shouldn't frontline staff be paid well? They're the ones actually operating the machines that get people to and from work/home, etc.

[Adorkami]

Lots of people drive downtown in large vehicles and you don't have to pay them that much. In my previous job you could get someone as low as 16-18/hour starting wage to drive a 5 ton as well as do physically demanding work. I do agree that working with the public can be difficult but the same could be said for a mcdonalds employee and I've yet to see them at $30/hour in vancouver.

[Hondaracer]

Lol..id argue most construction jobs are far tougher for less pay and less benefits, less job security, etc

Laborer and as far as 3rd/4th year trades people in Alberta now are making about the same, 30/h etc. pulling cable and shit for 10 hours a day for 14 days straight seems a little harder..again, with little or shitty benefits.

I find it funny how it's always these Union types who are always the ones bitching about how hard or how people don't understand what their job entails. For the most part they are always far easier and far cushier than their private sector counter-parts

[vitaminG]

theres a lot of worse jobs that pay less out there. but i dont think $30 is unreasonable at all for the work they do. id say its in line with other union driving jobs. they also have to deal with shit hours and split shifts, not to mention some of the people who take the bus.

[Hondaracer]

Oh no doubt, obviously dealing with the people is the biggest downside to the job

[meme405]

Oh no doubt, obviously dealing with the people is the biggest downside to the job

I'd agree, but your waitress or bartender also deals with people all night long, drunk ones, obnoxious ones, and she has to put up with it because she only gets paid minimum wage and relies on the tips those drunk people leave for her.

As for people saying bus driving is hazardous with regards to the people you have to deal with, the truth is it simply isn't. At least by my definition of the word hazardous it isn't. In 2014 173 construction workers we're killed while at work. Exactly 0 bus drivers were killed.

Sure you might get a cup of water thrown at you, or some bum might annoy you, but at least your not gonna fall to your death.


"Drivers deserve fair wages and working conditions — so to demand bus drivers take concessions when they have some of the toughest jobs around is simply insulting," said Unifor Local 111 president Nathan Woods.

But I guess we should take The bus driver unions presidents word for it that they have "the toughest jobs around", I mean after all he isn't paid by those people to literally say exactly that.

As for the issue at hand, from the last contract that was signed wage increases we're set at 3.8% a year. Nothing has been released as of yet by either side, but the bus driver unions keeps using the word "Concessions", I can only imagine that the government is probably trying to reel back that 3.8% to something more reasonable such as 1.5 or 2%. After all inflation is supposed to only be 2% and rarely do we even see that. I highly doubt the government is actually giving bus drivers a pay cut. They are just giving them less of a raise every year.


Further to all of the above, I think performance should also be looked at, and Unifor 111's performance has actually been quite poor over the last little bit.

I remember a document being ousted awhile back about how they had really high turnover, and absenteeism. I could only find this news article though:

http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/2015/10/15/translink-bus-driver-absences-skyrocket

During the worst months, the numbers meant one-in-10 employees were away from work — everyday.

That's APPALLING. What's even worse is the unions response:

“If we notice an employee has a high sort of spike in absenteeism, we’ll have a chat with them and make sure it’s something we can assist.”

Something we can assist? Huh?

Does anyone know how this conversation would go in the private sector?

"Uhh sorry johhny you missed 5 days last month, you're fired"

[twitchyzero]

ok wage cut would suck regardless of occupation.

but 250k hours cut over 3 years for 4700 workers ...seriously that's like only losing 2 days of work in a year if I understood correctly...if you think that's bad just wait until you get replaced by robots/Google :lol

try private sector for a little while...you'll likely run back to your crown-backed position.

[m4k4v4li]

. You shouldn't need a degree to put a roof over your head.

i agree

i deserve property ownership by right of birth

[m4k4v4li]

..

[beebob]

I am all for higher wages for everyone to keep up with the ever rising living costs in Vancouver. But Translink needs to stop these bullshit cost cuts.

I remember doing a research for econ class a few years back ubc to see whether the then proposed fare increase was reasonable and justified. I found out translink was actually operating at a pretty low efficiency, and fare evasion was a common problem. Don't remember the exact numbers, but they were losing 3~6 million every year due to evasions. How they managed to implement the gates so late is beyond me, and how the gate costs 200 million dollars has me jackie-chan meme.

What translink needs to do is to stop subsiding the bike lanes and other non-public transportation shit and use that money to do whatever they wanted to do instead of enforcing these BS cost cuts. If bikers want bike lanes, then they should partially pay for it. I don't see how fully subsided bike lanes paid by public transportation users and car drivers are justified. Plus, operating costs should be much lower than the last few years, if they didn't make wage cut then, why start now. The ones should be taking a wage cut are the executives. If they are managing a business that is seeing deficits constantly, and want to start making cost reduction policies on its workers then maybe start with execs first. It may not be much. but at least they would be setting a good example.

[stewie]

There's a bus driver I know through a friend and whenever general chit chat is brought up about how peoples days were he's constantly bragging about how easy and cushy his job is when people ask him how his day was. He says he just drives from point A to point B and repeat. He talks about driving downtown and how he deals with drunk/bums/anyone who he thinks will/could start an altercation. If they pay, they pay, if they don't, who cares. He'll just let anyone on to make his job easier as its not worth the hassle to bug the person about paying to get and possibly start shit.

I may have an damn good union myself, but I work 10x harder than any bus driver and deal with more pissed off annoyed people who bitch about my wage - the entire city.

[MarkyMark]

i agree

i deserve property ownership by right of birth

Anyone who does a job for 40+ hours a week should be able to provide basic needs to live in my opinion, regardless of education. If the jobs important enough that it needs you full time, then you should be able to afford rent. That's more of a minimum wage issue than this thread though.

No one said anything about owning property.

[MarkyMark]

There's a bus driver I know through a friend and whenever general chit chat is brought up about how peoples days were he's constantly bragging about how easy and cushy his job is when people ask him how his day was. He says he just drives from point A to point B and repeat. He talks about driving downtown and how he deals with drunk/bums/anyone who he thinks will/could start an altercation. If they pay, they pay, if they don't, who cares. He'll just let anyone on to make his job easier as its not worth the hassle to bug the person about paying to get and possibly start shit.

I may have an damn good union myself, but I work 10x harder than any bus driver and deal with more pissed off annoyed people who bitch about my wage - the entire city.

Like any job, give someone an inch and they take a mile. I work in a union myself, and I see these types of people a lot. Definitely there are those who wouldn't have a job if they weren't in a union. At the end of the day though, these fuck ups make me look like a model employee.

Being in a union there are things I like and dislike. But when it comes down to it, without the union my wage would be most likely half of what it is now. So I'm overpaid then? If the company can afford to pay the wages they are paying us now, and still make money, how do you determine that someone is overpaid or not? If someone is willing to do it for 15 an hour then that should be the wage?

People seem to think if you're not breaking your back then you're not worth the money.

[Digitalis]

How about you jackasses figure out how to charge per stop on the skytrains and make zones work again?
That way not only could you generate enough income to sustain your wage heck you may even give yourself a raise!
I dont know of anywhere else in the world where you can travel such a great distance (richmond to surrey) for that little money.
This is not about how much the drivers make. To be honest, we are not even asking for more money. 1% increase is comical and no point even arguing about .

The issue is , on the back end that passengers and the public don't know about. Its issues that will directly affect the drivers working conditions.

Everyone always says we get paid etc too much. But, if you think we get paid too much you are more then welcome to apply! WE ARE HIRING!

You have to remember, we have taken concessions for the last 10 years! In a effort to help the company make ends meet. We even extended our contract by a year , because we didn't want to have bargaining during the plebiscite and during the new CEO etc.

Eventually, you have to ask yourself as a working individual when do we stop taking concessions? Enough is enough.

Just wanted to also point out, that we Also agreed to let them cut down over 250,000 hours! over the last 3 years. Again this was to help the company make budget quotas. Then I see news , of CEOS making Bonus's :(

[jasonturbo]

http://www.metrovancouver.org/services/labour-relations/collective-bargaining/CollectiveAgreements/Vancouver_CUPE_1004_Outside_2012-15.pdf

Page 52 and beyond provides wage schedules, seems to me they are compensated comparably with other city positions such as;

2015 Wages:
Asphalt Raker (LOL) - $27.99
Truck Driver (Most) - $29.16
Equipment Operator Class V (Highest Paid Operator, not sure what they actually operate) - $32.35

Ultimately it's not the 30$/hr, they also get pension, benefits, and vacation that eclipses much of the private sector - Refer to Section 8 of the collective agreement, if you work in the private sector (Anything other than corporate) I suspect your list of benefits is much shorter.

Such is the way with public employees.

If you want a giggle check out the collective agreement for Longshoremen ILWU 500, page 89 for 2016 rates.
http://ilwu500.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Collective-Agreement-2010-2018.pdf
Highlights:
Regular Time - $40.56/hr
Holiday Pay - $81.12/hr

Pretty good pay for a union supporting a non-ticketed trade.

Makes you wonder why anyone doesn't go union lol.

[Hondaracer]

Anyone who does a job for 40+ hours a week should be able to provide basic needs to live in my opinion, regardless of education. If the jobs important enough that it needs you full time, then you should be able to afford rent. That's more of a minimum wage issue than this thread though.

No one said anything about owning property.

Minimum wage is for children, it's not a living wage. If you don't make enough to live/rent in Vancouver you have to move east, period. Working 40 hours a week at X job doesn't entitle you to live in Van.

[jasonturbo]

On a separate rant, I don't really believe the wages are low so much as the taxes and cost of living is too high. The fact that real estate (also known as "peoples homes") has been pumped up by the government for a decade plus, essentially encouraging people to speculate on RE has really hurt everyone financially, at the end of the day the banks win that one, the next generation gets completely fucked.

These are essential positions, it's not really fair to have someone service an immediate area with an essential position and then not pay them enough to live there.. next thing you know were Saudi Arabia enslaving Indian expats in our two tier society.

[MarkyMark]

http://www.metrovancouver.org/services/labour-relations/collective-bargaining/CollectiveAgreements/Vancouver_CUPE_1004_Outside_2012-15.pdf

Page 52 and beyond provides wage schedules, seems to me they are compensated comparably with other city positions such as;

2015 Wages:
Asphalt Raker (LOL) - $27.99
Truck Driver (Most) - $29.16
Equipment Operator Class V (Highest Paid Operator, not sure what they actually operate) - $32.35

Ultimately it's not the 30$/hr, they also get pension, benefits, and vacation that eclipses much of the private sector - Refer to Section 8 of the collective agreement, if you work in the private sector (Anything other than corporate) I suspect your list of benefits is much shorter.

Such is the way with public employees.

If you want a giggle check out the collective agreement for Longshoremen ILWU 500, page 89 for 2016 rates.
http://ilwu500.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Collective-Agreement-2010-2018.pdf
Highlights:
Regular Time - $40.56/hr
Holiday Pay - $81.12/hr

Pretty good pay for a union supporting a non-ticketed trade.

Makes you wonder why anyone doesn't go union lol.

My best buddy is a member at Delta Port and the stuff he tells me is beyond ridiculous. Working graveyard for like $65 an hour with an hour of mandatory OT for nothing. Half the time he shows up at 1am and leaves after clocking in being paid for the whole shift. The amount of money the docks make must be insane to afford that.

Minimum wage is for children, it's not a living wage. If you don't make enough to live/rent in Vancouver you have to move east, period. Working 40 hours a week at X job doesn't entitle you to live in Van.

Last time a went to McDonalds I saw more people in their 50s than teenagers. No one has to live in Vancouver but if you can't even afford rent in Maple Ridge there's a problem

[meme405]

Like any job, give someone an inch and they take a mile. I work in a union myself, and I see these types of people a lot. Definitely there are those who wouldn't have a job if they weren't in a union. At the end of the day though, these fuck ups make me look like a model employee.

So you like working in a world of mediocrity because it makes you look better?

Well I like working with professionals because it makes my job easier, and the entire company looks better as a result of the good work everyone does.


Being in a union there are things I like and dislike. But when it comes down to it, without the union my wage would be most likely half of what it is now. So I'm overpaid then? If the company can afford to pay the wages they are paying us now, and still make money, how do you determine that someone is overpaid or not? If someone is willing to do it for 15 an hour then that should be the wage?

Or maybe your company would make way more money, if they shed all the dead weight the union protects and only kept the productive useful employees. Then your wage might go up because of all the great work you guys are doing.

Successful companies pay their employees well, not saying that unioned companies can't be successful, but in general most unions seem to protect and defend useless workers. Everyone works a a different pace, and everyone's experience is different from each other, so paying an entire company of people the same rate because they perform the same task is completely ass backwards.

Take the line assembly worker example, 2 guys go to work everyday, person one drags his ass and barely makes 1000 widgets, person 2 works hard all day and builds 5000 widgets. After the first week person 2 starts to notice person 1 isn't working as hard, but he never gets talked to and continues to work there because they are in a union, so person 2 decides he can slow down a bit as well. Now all of a sudden person 1 and 2 are barely building 3000 widgets a day. So the company they work for hired 2 more people to bring up production, but because of the union that company has to pay all 4 people as if they were doing the work of 4 people, when in reality they are all together only doing the work of 2 people.


EDIT:
I can actually keep going.

If the company can afford to pay the wages they are paying us now, and still make money, how do you determine that someone is overpaid or not?

Translink isn't making money, they are constantly taking money from our taxes in order to keep funding their costs which are spiraling out of control. So your argument doesn't work.

I don't really believe the wages are low so much as the taxes and cost of living is too high.

Could it be that our taxes are this high because we pay all our civil servants and employees of government run corporations ridiculous wages regardless of how mediocre or simple of a job they do? Regardless of whether or not their branch of public service manages to produce a profit?

[twitchyzero]

. The ones should be taking a wage cut are the executives. If they are managing a business that is seeing deficits constantly, and want to start making cost reduction policies on its workers then maybe start with execs first. It may not be much. but at least they would be setting a good example.

has that ever happened before in public sector? I don't think execs/mgmt. is willing to take a salary cut, I certainly wouldn't for the "greater good" if you argue how much effort/time it took you to get there (if it's a startup, sure, I don't see it happening in a Crown corp)

People seem to think if you're not breaking your back then you're not worth the money.

To me, it has very little to do with risks on the job nor how much shit you have to deal with/put up. The union keeps talking about working conditions...okay please clarify how poor the working conditions are for the average transit operator...I'm all ears. and if it warrants a change, is there a way to improve that environment instead of upping wages to compensate?

Heck neither does wages have to do with how hardworking you are. I worked probably the hardest for $6.5/h when I was 15.

It's more about how much you've invested into a certain skillset. If you can be replaced by any person with a class 5 and clean 5 year record or one day an automated system...you have to ask yourself how much value you can offer. (Translink website says "be able to obtain class 2"...so I assume it's offered on-job during training)

Anyone who does a job for 40+ hours a week should be able to provide basic needs to live in my opinion, regardless of education. If the jobs important enough that it needs you full time, then you should be able to afford rent. That's more of a minimum wage issue than this thread though.


Sure you can afford the basics, but forget about luxuries. No car, no vacation, no pricey pasttimes/toys. You want that $300 handbag? You better stock up on TV dinner like college students. Forget about kids.

[MarkyMark]

So you like working in a world of mediocrity because it makes you look better?

Well I like working with professionals because it makes my job easier, and the entire company looks better as a result of the good work everyone does.



Or maybe your company would make way more money, if they shed all the dead weight the union protects and only kept the productive useful employees. Then your wage might go up because of all the great work you guys are doing.

Successful companies pay their employees well, not saying that unioned companies can't be successful, but in general most unions seem to protect and defend useless workers. Everyone works a a different pace, and everyone's experience is different from each other, so paying an entire company of people the same rate because they perform the same task is completely ass backwards.

Take the line assembly worker example, 2 guys go to work everyday, person one drags his ass and barely makes 1000 widgets, person 2 works hard all day and builds 5000 widgets. After the first week person 2 starts to notice person 1 isn't working as hard, but he never gets talked to and continues to work there because they are in a union, so person 2 decides he can slow down a bit as well. Now all of a sudden person 1 and 2 are barely building 3000 widgets a day. So the company they work for hired 2 more people to bring up production, but because of the union that company has to pay all 4 people as if they were doing the work of 4 people, when in reality they are all together only doing the work of 2 people.

Some of the most successful companies there are do it on the backs of people making fuck all. Saying successful companies pay their employees well isn't true in a lot of cases.

And your assembly line example, maybe the company should do a better job of hiring then. It's not like once the guy is hired he's incapable of being canned. Generally there is an amount of hours worked before you are in a union and you can get tossed anytime before that. And it's also not impossible to get fired once you're in either. In the last 5 years at my work probably more than 10 guys have been fired for various reasons and the union couldn't do a thing about it

[MarkyMark]

Translink isn't making money, they are constantly taking money from our taxes in order to keep funding their costs which are spiraling out of control. So your argument doesn't work.




TransLink is run by a bunch if stupid fucks who don't know their ass from a hat. I'd like to see what the wages bus drivers make are a year compared to the stupid expensive ideas they come up with that don't work.

But yeah, when they are constantly broke let's blame the guys on the bottom for making too much, not the billions they blew on bullshit that we didn't need.

[meme405]

But yeah, when they are constantly broke let's blame the guys on the bottom for making too much, not the billions they blew on bullshit that we didn't need.

I'm not blaming the guy on the bottom, but I am saying the guy on the bottom doesn't need a raise in excess of inflation when the company he works for is hemorrhaging money.

The fact is this, people who wish to make more than bus drivers, will become supervisors, or will find other avenues up beyond the actual driving position. This is how you get raises.

Other than that bus drivers should only be getting wage increases to keep up with inflation. Why should someone who has been doing the same job as the guy who did it 10 years ago, get paid more than what that guy got paid (inflation neglected).

It doens't make any sense, you get raises when you move to a new position, or for when you reach certain milestones, drivers don't just deserve raises because their contract is up.

Note: I am basing this on people understand the difference between a wage increase to match inflation, and an actual "raise". Every employee should be getting 2% or whatever eveyr year in order to match inflation (even though inflation is actually statistically much less than 2% here in canada).

[MarkyMark]

Across the board have wages kept up with inflation?

[smoothie.]

I'm not blaming the guy on the bottom, but I am saying the guy on the bottom doesn't need a raise in excess of inflation when the company he works for is hemorrhaging money.

The fact is this, people who wish to make more than bus drivers, will become supervisors, or will find other avenues up beyond the actual driving position. This is how you get raises.

Other than that bus drivers should only be getting wage increases to keep up with inflation. Why should someone who has been doing the same job as the guy who did it 10 years ago, get paid more than what that guy got paid (inflation neglected).

It doens't make any sense, you get raises when you move to a new position, or for when you reach certain milestones, drivers don't just deserve raises because their contract is up.

Note: I am basing this on people understand the difference between a wage increase to match inflation, and an actual "raise". Every employee should be getting 2% or whatever eveyr year in order to match inflation (even though inflation is actually statistically much less than 2% here in canada).

Incentive to stay. I wouldnt stay at a job with no annual salary increase. 3/4 recent jobs were more than inflation, anually.

[smoothie.]

...

Successful companies pay their employees well, not saying that unioned companies can't be successful, but in general most unions seem to protect and defend useless workers. Everyone works a a different pace, and everyone's experience is different from each other, so paying an entire company of people the same rate because they perform the same task is completely ass backwards.
...


Successful private companies dont guarantee proper compensation. I went from private to public for reason.

No more bullshit unpaid OT, proper procedures instead of work dumped on my desk, keeping salaries hindered so costs look lower.

There's always good and bad. Useless workers will always be there, union or not.

[MarkyMark]

It's just like assuming lower costs for companies means they pass the savings onto consumers. They will if it means their bottom line goes up, otherwise they'll pocket it for themselves.

Why does no one cares that the difference between a CEOs salary compared to his employees has gone up insanely high since the 70s and 80s? Suddenly someone realized they work 1000 times harder?

[meme405]

Why does no one cares that the difference between a CEOs salary compared to his employees has gone up insanely high since the 70s and 80s? Suddenly someone realized they work 1000 times harder?

Provide some proof that the CEO's salary has gone up disproportionately to the workers, and maybe I will believe you, but for now your just spit balling, and from what I see I believe bus drivers are payed completely proportionately to their counterparts.

[buhdeh]

If you think this is bad, you guys should see OFFICE JOBS in the government. At least bus drivers actually do work for most of their shift.

[smoothie.]

Provide some proof that the CEO's salary has gone up disproportionately to the workers, and maybe I will believe you, but for now your just spit balling, and from what I see I believe bus drivers are payed completely proportionately to their counterparts.

CEO Pay Continues to Rise as Typical Workers Are Paid Less | Economic Policy Institute (http://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-pay-continues-to-rise/)

CEO-To-Worker Pay Ratio Ballooned 1,000 Percent Since 1950: Report (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/30/ceo-to-worker-pay-ratio_n_3184623.html)

[MarkyMark]

Provide some proof that the CEO's salary has gone up disproportionately to the workers, and maybe I will believe you, but for now your just spit balling, and from what I see I believe bus drivers are payed completely proportionately to their counterparts.

From CBC.ca

"In a report published Monday, the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives looked at salary information from 249 TSX-listed companies. The think-tank then calculated numbers based on the 100 people at the top of that list.

According to the group, the richest 100 CEOs in Canada took in $8.98 million last year, a drop of about two per cent from 2013's level. That figure includes salaries, bonuses, share grants and stock options.

But that's still well ahead of the $48,636 that the group says the typical full-year, full-time worker earned last year.

Based on last year's earnings, Canada's 100 top CEOs will earn by 12:18 p.m. today — Jan. 4 — what the average Canadian will make in a whole year."

Yes that's the top 100 but the fact remains, should anyone make what the average person makes in a year by Jan 4th?

[jackmeister]

It's just like assuming lower costs for companies means they pass the savings onto consumers. They will if it means their bottom line goes up, otherwise they'll pocket it for themselves.

Why does no one cares that the difference between a CEOs salary compared to his employees has gone up insanely high since the 70s and 80s? Suddenly someone realized they work 1000 times harder?

Or maybe the value of work they put in is significantly higher? When shit hits the fan the CEO is almost always the fall guy right? And to be fair, with the required skillset would you want to work as Translink CEO for 200k a year, or millions elsewhere?

I don't see bus drivers trying to hustle money out of different stakeholders (taxpayers, governments, users, etc) and face the music about what a shitty organization he works for.

[MarkyMark]

Or maybe the value of work they put in is significantly higher? When shit hits the fan the CEO is almost always the fall guy right? And to be fair, with the required skillset would you want to work as Translink CEO for 200k a year, or millions elsewhere?

I don't see bus drivers trying to hustle money out of different stakeholders (taxpayers, governments, users, etc) and face the music about what a shitty organization he works for.

Yeah when shit hits the fan and they are fired, they'll already have made enough retire 10 times over, and most likely a severance big enough to retire 10 times over again.

[Adorkami]

The largest part of a CEOs income seems to be stock in most cases, something that is tied to the performance of the company they will be running. As for the wages having grown so much you fail to mention the other side of things... profit. http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/corporate-profits?embed

[meme405]

You guys are just providing blanket articles. They don't even provide links to translink, just a bunch of other companies most of which are private not public corporations.

Let me provide you an example that actually relates to tranlink:

TransLink cuts executive vehicle allowance, lowers salary cap for CEO - NEWS 1130 (http://www.news1130.com/2015/10/02/changes-to-translink-executive-compensation/)

The CEO's and execs all took pay cuts and concessions last year, so why shouldn't the bus drivers be force to as well?

[smoothie.]

You guys are just providing blanket articles. They don't even provide links to translink, just a bunch of other companies most of which are private not public corporations.

Let me provide you an example that actually relates to tranlink:

TransLink cuts executive vehicle allowance, lowers salary cap for CEO - NEWS 1130 (http://www.news1130.com/2015/10/02/changes-to-translink-executive-compensation/)

The CEO's and execs all took pay cuts and concessions last year, so why shouldn't the bus drivers be force to as well?

Might as well take 29k off every translink employees pay also.

I'll just leave this here. You think the regular staff got bonuses like this?
https://www.biv.com/article/2014/9/translink-bonuses-boosted-executive-pay-amid-vows-/

[MarkyMark]

You guys are just providing blanket articles. They don't even provide links to translink, just a bunch of other companies most of which are private not public corporations.

Let me provide you an example that actually relates to tranlink:

TransLink cuts executive vehicle allowance, lowers salary cap for CEO - NEWS 1130 (http://www.news1130.com/2015/10/02/changes-to-translink-executive-compensation/)

The CEO's and execs all took pay cuts and concessions last year, so why shouldn't the bus drivers be force to as well?

This convo has gone beyond just TransLink, or so I thought.

Anyways, back to TransLink. They have been bleeding money for years, why shouldn't that reflect on the people running it first? Where are the numbers showing that the main reason TransLink can't run without losing cash year over year is because the drivers make too much? In reality those cuts aren't saving them shit. It's just a way to calm the public down after being gouged by their incompetent expensive ideas for years.

[meme405]

Anyways, back to TransLink. They have been bleeding money for years, why shouldn't that reflect on the people running it first? Where are the numbers showing that the main reason TransLink can't run without losing cash year over year is because the drivers make too much? In reality those cuts aren't saving them shit. It's just a way to calm the public down after being gouged by their incompetent expensive ideas for years.

It saved them 2 million a year, while thats certainly more than nothing, it's won't do shit to correct the problem with translink. Then again just paying bus drivers more won't fix the problem either.

Might as well take 29k off every translink employees pay also.

I'll just leave this here. You think the regular staff got bonuses like this?
https://www.biv.com/article/2014/9/translink-bonuses-boosted-executive-pay-amid-vows-/

You linked an aricle from 2014, I linked an article from 2015 that proves they fixed that problem. No the regular workers didn't get bonuses like that, and neither do the CEO's anymore either, on top of that they also took a 6.4% pay cut across the board. So why are the drivers immune to concessions?

This convo has gone beyond just TransLink, or so I thought.


No it hasn't. If you wan't to discuss Trickle-Down-Economics we can do so in another thread.

[6o4__boi]

The CEO's and execs all took pay cuts and concessions last year, so why shouldn't the bus drivers be force to as well?

pretty complex situation and i try not to side with either but i gotta pipe up when people start comparing apples to oranges

to answer that question because CEO's make exponentially (ok, that's an exaggeration but you get the point) more than your average driver?

cut salary range to $325k-$406k from max cap hit of $435k
404 - sympathy not found

On the other hand, if Operators and other lower tier employees should also "concede" as the great, illustrious visionaries did...
let's say median income of operators are $25/hr.
That's $42k on a 70 hour work week/year BEFORE taxes.
a 5% cut to hourly wages makes it $39,900 a year BEFORE taxes.

Big whoop, the CEO's and execs took "massive" paycuts and bonus eliminations. At the end of the day, they still retain perks, and they would just scoff at the cut...probably just paper toilet money to them.

[MarkyMark]

It saved them 2 million a year, while thats certainly more than nothing, it's won't do shit to correct the problem with translink. Then again just paying bus drivers more won't fix the problem either.



You linked an aricle from 2014, I linked an article from 2015 that proves they fixed that problem. No the regular workers didn't get bonuses like that, and neither do the CEO's anymore either, on top of that they also took a 6.4% pay cut across the board. So why are the drivers immune to concessions?

Maybe because the drivers salaries don't allow them to pay off their house in 3 years? I'm still waiting to see how much money will be saved by wage concessions vs TransLink not making stupid expensive decisions every year.

[meme405]

pretty complex situation and i try not to side with either but i gotta pipe up when people start comparing apples to oranges

to answer that question because CEO's make exponentially (ok, that's an exaggeration but you get the point) more than your average driver?

cut salary range to $325k-$406k from max cap hit of $435k
404 - sympathy not found

On the other hand, if Operators and other lower tier employees should also "concede" as the great, illustrious visionaries did...
let's say median income of operators are $25/hr.
That's $42k on a 70 hour work week/year BEFORE taxes.
a 5% cut to hourly wages makes it $39,900 a year BEFORE taxes.

Big whoop, the CEO's and execs took "massive" paycuts and bonus eliminations. At the end of the day, they still retain perks, and they would just scoff at the cut...probably just paper toilet money to them.

FYI. I agree on the apples to oranges bit. I'm not the one who took the conversation in this direction, I am simply responding to people who raised that as an issue and atleast giving some form of insight.

Maybe because the drivers salaries don't allow them to pay off their house in 3 years? I'm still waiting to see how much money will be saved by wage concessions vs TransLink not making stupid expensive decisions every year.

This conversation has gone from sounding like a salary discussion, to almost sounding like you just promoting communism. I suppose in your mind everyone who works 40 hours a week, deserves to be fed, bathed, have clothes, and housing... Sounds good see ya there

[MarkyMark]

FYI. I agree on the apples to oranges bit. I'm not the one who took the conversation in this direction, I am simply responding to people who raised that as an issue and atleast giving some form of insight.



This conversation has gone from sounding like a salary discussion, to almost sounding like you just promoting communism. I suppose in your mind everyone who works 40 hours a week, deserves to be fed, bathed, have clothes, and housing... Sounds good see ya there

The fact is when you already make a shit ton a wage cut doesn't affect you anywhere near as someone who lives cheque to cheque.

And suddenly wanting the wealth to be spread out a bit more is communism. People get applauded for hoarding billions and paying their workers nothing, but pay a bus driver 30 bucks an hour and they are the ones who need to give their head a shake. Okie dokie.

[smoothie.]

...

You linked an aricle from 2014, I linked an article from 2015 that proves they fixed that problem. No the regular workers didn't get bonuses like that, and neither do the CEO's anymore either, on top of that they also took a 6.4% pay cut across the board. So why are the drivers immune to concessions?

...


2015 is also the year they paid out double or triple CEO salaries?

:pokerface:

I get what you're sort of saying, I just have no sympathy for the higher ups at Translink while I definitely feel for the average translink worker. I've seen some shit on those buses.

[6o4__boi]

Could it be that our taxes are this high because we pay all our civil servants and employees of government run corporations ridiculous wages regardless of how mediocre or simple of a job they do? Regardless of whether or not their branch of public service manages to produce a profit?


Iffy on this as well. It's easy to say some government lackeys are overpaid but it's not usually the case. I've been in organizations where the bottom tier, entry level office lackeys do infinitely more work while their supervisors and managers attend meaningless meetings (with lunch catered of course!) and seminars (travel expenses, fees and meals included!).

I've had to walk out on some meetings just to let my brain catch up after hearing retarded executives spew bullshit and plan out ridiculous, unnecessary things for certain projects. Like seriously, we're budgeting THAT much for something inconsequential?! Why are we spending this much on something that's probably not gonna work out and for a company that's probably not gonna be the one we'll be working with again...?

I honestly think it's a top down problem. From my experience, low level civil servants will do as their told and generally try to keep things lean within their powers. I would argue and say that taxes are high because individuals at the top tend to be careless with taxpayer (TP) money and some have surprisingly little to no common sense when it comes to creating and allocating budgets.

[Hondaracer]

The thing with these massive public companies is there is no accountability for spending, checks/balances etc. they all act like money is never ending and the "cuts" they make are almost always superficial.

I have a friend who works for the Vancouver school board, I'm tempted to make a thread to post some of the shit he has told me regarding pure fucking waste. Yet they are on the news non-stop begging for money etc.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Oh no doubt, obviously dealing with the people is the biggest downside to the job

Is true one time I was on the 84 bus some asshole keep standing new the back door forcing it to keep opening. Despite the bus driving telling everyone to move away from the back door so it can be close. But this asshole isn't listening and just keeps standing there thus the door keeps closing and opening. The driver got piss off and basically turn the engine off and on the speaker he said this bus isn't going anywhere unit people move away from the back door. Then the asshole move away complaining........

[twitchyzero]

so this came up in my newfeed
not exactly buses but plans to reduce congestion and reliance on transit

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-21/musk-s-secret-plan-to-curb-city-traffic-with-self-driving-bus

[meme405]

I honestly think it's a top down problem. From my experience, low level civil servants will do as their told and generally try to keep things lean within their powers. I would argue and say that taxes are high because individuals at the top tend to be careless with taxpayer (TP) money and some have surprisingly little to no common sense when it comes to creating and allocating budgets.

Absolutely, I'm not saying the top levels of translink or our government are run well, they squander money and waste it on useless things, its depressing.

That doesn't change the fact that I don't believe bus drivers need a raise.

The thing is whatever camp you are in, you will probably agree that even if the government cleans up their spending, there is a dozen places where the funds could be better used to help us as a society, rather than just paying a guy who drives from point a to point b picking people up.

We pay A LOT as taxes here especially in BC, and instead of correcting the spending issues, when civil servants and stuff want raises, we always resort to just increasing taxes on the private sector or personal taxes to cover up the public sectors huge losses. If my company ran like the government I wouldn't be in fucking be in business more than a few weeks.

This all goes beyond the issue at hand, and traces right back to what someone said above: There is no accountability for the government, and by and large many people are just happy with the status quo, I don't see many people trying to do anything to fix the problem. So I'd agree with smoothie, we should all just go work for the government because it seems like they have all the money in the world.

[yray]

our kids gonna pay for it, and their kids and their their kids :drunk:

[Mr.HappySilp]

our kids gonna pay for it, and their kids and their their kids :drunk:

WRONG! Coz I am not having kids. Not with the way how fuck up our world is.

[Traum]

Going back to the strike vote itself, is the transit union / members aware that they aren't receiving very much sympathy and support from members of the general public? Their salary is already viewed to be on the high side, and a public transit strike will further make it inconvenient for the public to get around or even just go to work. Neither points are going to help them in the contract negotiations.

And then the workers go on strike, don't get paid (strike pay means shxt), and they are only hurting themselves along with the residents. Just where is the logic in that?

[Digitalis]

This is the line of thinking that leads to all these "ceo's" and people living for today like animals and not for the future like humans.
WRONG! Coz I am not having kids. Not with the way how fuck up our world is.

[mikemhg]

I am all for higher wages for everyone to keep up with the ever rising living costs in Vancouver. But Translink needs to stop these bullshit cost cuts.

I remember doing a research for econ class a few years back ubc to see whether the then proposed fare increase was reasonable and justified. I found out translink was actually operating at a pretty low efficiency, and fare evasion was a common problem. Don't remember the exact numbers, but they were losing 3~6 million every year due to evasions. How they managed to implement the gates so late is beyond me, and how the gate costs 200 million dollars has me jackie-chan meme.

What translink needs to do is to stop subsiding the bike lanes and other non-public transportation shit and use that money to do whatever they wanted to do instead of enforcing these BS cost cuts. If bikers want bike lanes, then they should partially pay for it. I don't see how fully subsided bike lanes paid by public transportation users and car drivers are justified. Plus, operating costs should be much lower than the last few years, if they didn't make wage cut then, why start now. The ones should be taking a wage cut are the executives. If they are managing a business that is seeing deficits constantly, and want to start making cost reduction policies on its workers then maybe start with execs first. It may not be much. but at least they would be setting a good example.

Best post in this whole thread. It baffles me how we cannibalize each other when it comes to union and the private section. I work in the private sector myself, what the bus drivers make is none of my business, I don't understand how people can feel so entitled to be in another man's business.

Let them strike. Anyone in this thread would be pissed to see their salary drop 10%, meanwhile we see how Translink is run like some corrupt second world government owned company. What are we Brazil? 200 million on
GATES. With a possible fare evasion of $2 million per year?

Those dollars don't make cents. I agree with you, cut the top, trim the fat, why are we arguing people making $30 an hour in this expensive city? These guys drive around and deal with drug addicts, fart blowers, asian drivers, drunk fuckheads, etc. I'm sure they earn it. But let's all continue to race to the bottom.

[Hondaracer]

I think as soon as my tax dollars are being used to pay these wages, it becomes my business.

[meme405]

what the bus drivers make is none of my business, I don't understand how people can feel so entitled to be in another man's business.

Even the government knows it is absolutely your business, that's why their wages are a matter of public record.

Exactly as Hondaracer said, when it's my wages getting "cannibalized" in order to pay for these drivers then it is absolutely my business.

I've never heard any person complain about what a private sector union member makes, it is absolutely nobodies business except for the company and those union members.

Frankly if translink can guarantee that they won't have to somehow increase our levies, gas taxes, toll rates, taxes, etc. Then I couldn't give a fuck less if they pay their drivers a 60 bucks an hour. The trouble is I know exactly the path this leads down, and it ends with us getting another tax hike, or taxes on our gas.

[subordinate]

curious how many transit cops we have too. How many are retired police officers, double dipping into pensions.

[cocojoe]

Strikes don't solve anything they just hurt people. Anyone who says they want to see them strike doesn't use transit and are just self-centered and have an arrogant sense of entitlement. I'd love to see you not have the use of a car or any form of transportation and you work downtown but live in PoCo.

[MarkyMark]

I'd like to see some detailed numbers just to see what % of these drivers wages actually are in relation to all the other spending that TransLink does. If they can show all the numbers and prove that it's the 30 bucks an hour that is making them bleed money, and not their horrible money management decisions, then I bet even for the drivers it would be a little bit easier to swallow.

What I'd hate to see is TransLink continue to be careless with our money, and then just pass the blame by pointing fingers at a problem that isn't even a fraction of what the real problem is.

[m4k4v4li]

and what about union leaders? they are like the overly paid execs you are complaining about except their job isn't to find innovative ways to grow business efficiency and profits but rather scheme of new ways to solicit higher wages and benefits (this is essentially the measure of their job performance)

unions were created during a time where there were actually serious job hazards and no basic worker rights

in today's global economy they are largely inefficient institutions propping up artificially inflated sectors

[Armind]

So... they voted to strike.

[Traum]

^^ And at some crazy high percentage (high 90's) as well.

I honestly wish everybody good luck in this ordeal -- that includes the transit operators as well as the general public. Everybody's daily commute is gonna get fxxked up to varying degrees. But amidst all of this chaos, I honestly don't think the transit operators are going to gain too much of it. More likely than not, I expect them to be hurting their own wallets more than coming out on top in their CBA.

[GLOW]

https://kapitiseniornet.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/and-so-it-begins1.jpg

[Armind]

Commute to work is gonna be a bitch now. Fuck.

[Acura604]

chilllll... I think the 'strike notice' is just a ploy to bring everyone back to the bargaining table to show how serious the situation has become. they have NOT issued any sort of strike notice to take effect so its business as usual.

[Traum]

^^ Yes, that is exactly what they are doing. But I don't think this Liberal government is gonna do anything at all. History has shown that unless you are doctors, nurses, or MLA, the provincial government has no interest in giving out any raises. They always play hard ball and fxxk with everyone.

[vitaminG]

and what about union leaders? they are like the overly paid execs you are complaining about except their job isn't to find innovative ways to grow business efficiency and profits but rather scheme of new ways to solicit higher wages and benefits (this is essentially the measure of their job performance)

unions were created during a time where there were actually serious job hazards and no basic worker rights

in today's global economy they are largely inefficient institutions propping up artificially inflated sectors

Execs are voted in by the members they serve and their wages are paid by members dues. Of course it's their job to solicit better pay, benefits and condition, just like it's an employers job to pay as little as possible and maximize profits.

In this age of globalization unions are needed more than ever. Workers are a commodity to most employers and it's up to us to make sure we're treated fairly. Worker rights are being eroded in many industries and jobs.

[meme405]

In this age of globalization unions are needed more than ever. Workers are a commodity to most employers and it's up to us to make sure we're treated fairly. Worker rights are being eroded in many industries and jobs.

Your right, workers are a commodity, and the market price is what the market price is for any commodity. Using unions to drive up the price of that commodity is like your broker lying to you about the value of a particular stock.

If a company pays less than another they will likely only get shitty workers who couldn't work at the higher paying place. This creates a situation where the onus is on the worker to actually make sure they are educated, prepared and ready to do their job to the best of their ability. This creates a work environment built for success (as long as the company pays appropriately for it), instead of one built on a foundation of bullshit and mediocrity.

[Lomac]

theres a lot of worse jobs that pay less out there. but i dont think $30 is unreasonable at all for the work they do. id say its in line with other union driving jobs. they also have to deal with shit hours and split shifts, not to mention some of the people who take the bus.

It's currently in-line with what the local Teamster union makes, albeit without most of the perks the Teamsters gets. And having dealt with a bunch of the 155 guys, in comparison Translink drivers have a far harder job.

[Tapioca]

No one here has actually stated/argued what they think a fair wage for a bus driver is. If you're going to complain about the value of their job, at least make a coherent case with respect to reasonable compensation.

What would you pay them and why? And if your case is a strong one, why don't you work as a negotiator for Translink?

[meme405]

No one here has actually stated/argued what they think a fair wage for a bus driver is. If you're going to complain about the value of their job, at least make a coherent case with respect to reasonable compensation.

What would you pay them and why? And if your case is a strong one, why don't you work as a negotiator for Translink?

First united (the school bus company) pays class 2 school bus operators from ~$20 to $27.

Cypress Mountain coach lines pays it's operators ~$23-$28 (I'm sure other coach lines are in line with this, although I have no firm backup for this).

On top of that neither of the companies above has nearly as nice of a benefits package, and you have to already have your operating license in order to even apply; whereas for translink any bum off the street can apply and get hired.

I'd say their current salary amount is more than fair. They should receive a 1 to 2 % increase for the next 7 years, and sign a 7 year contract.

The issue is right now, nobody knows what the situation is, the demands of each side have not been made public. For all we know is the translink execs are asking bus drivers to take a 25% pay cut, in which case I'd be more understanding to the bus drivers.

[Tapioca]

First united (the school bus company) pays class 2 school bus operators from ~$20 to $27.

Cypress Mountain coach lines pays it's operators ~$23-$28 (I'm sure other coach lines are in line with this, although I have no firm backup for this).

On top of that neither of the companies above has nearly as nice of a benefits package, and you have to already have your operating license in order to even apply; whereas for translink any bum off the street can apply and get hired.

I'd say their current salary amount is more than fair. They should receive a 1 to 2 % increase for the next 7 years, and sign a 7 year contract.

The issue is right now, nobody knows what the situation is, the demands of each side have not been made public. For all we know is the translink execs are asking bus drivers to take a 25% pay cut, in which case I'd be more understanding to the bus drivers.

I think those are fair baselines and if I were a negotiator for Translink with no other suitable comparables, I would probably use that as a baseline and go from there.

We don't know what the real numbers are. I'm more willing to give Translink negotiators the benefit of the doubt - not because I have ever worked for that organization, but because they simply have more comparables than we do.

[bLUEsTEEL]

They should be glad they have a job, are getting paid pretty good, and have a home to go to. A lot of people in Fort McMurray don't.

https://nationalpostcom.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/fort-mcmurray-fire-alberta.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&w=940&h=705
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/4294784/thumbs/o-FORT-MCMURRAY-570.jpg?1
https://nationalpostcom.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/528639992.jpg?w=620&quality=65&strip=all&h=413
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/4294716/thumbs/o-FORT-MCMURRAY-570.jpg?5

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6Ts_aojtBo

[Gunsmokez]

They should be glad they have a job, are getting paid pretty good, and have a home to go to. A lot of people in Fort McMurray don't.


You should be glad you have a home and a computer to write that stupid unrelated post.

[tr0ubl3s0m3x]

Plus it's kind of hard to compare driving a bunch of tourists than a bunch of skids/drunks. TransLink's become too inflated at the top end and that's where a big chunk of the money goes to. Paying these ppls salary. I'd rather have my taxes pay for two/three drivers than one manager.

[bLUEsTEEL]

You should be glad you have a home and a computer to write that stupid unrelated post.

You should be too but what do you care about a possible strike? You have a car right? Anyways, are you really grateful for what you have? I hope so. Oh, by the way have you done anything to help anyone who's been displaced by that fire in Fort Mac?

[wingies]

Plus it's kind of hard to compare driving a bunch of tourists than a bunch of skids/drunks. TransLink's become too inflated at the top end and that's where a big chunk of the money goes to. Paying these ppls salary. I'd rather have my taxes pay for two/three drivers than one manager.

Yep dont forget what they love to do, giving themselves raises, behind closed doors, and not issuing press releases

TransLink pay scale raises eyebrows in B.C. - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/translink-pay-scale-raises-eyebrows-in-b-c-1.707592)

TransLink exec compensation rises despite supposed ?freeze? | CTV Vancouver News (http://bc.ctvnews.ca/translink-exec-compensation-rises-despite-supposed-freeze-1.1987666)

Four top executives at Translink all received pay raises last year - BC | Globalnews.ca (http://globalnews.ca/news/782666/four-top-executives-at-translink-all-received-pay-raises-last-year/)

[CorneringArtist]

You should be too but what do you care about a possible strike? You have a car right? Anyways, are you really grateful for what you have? I hope so. Oh, by the way have you done anything to help anyone who's been displaced by that fire in Fort Mac?

You don't get it. Bringing up the fire has zero context on whether or not the transit drivers strike, and is completely irrelevant to the thread topic. It would be like going into the Canucks thread and saying, "The team should be grateful for what they have by getting the fifth pick, unlike those people in Fort Mac who are suffering."

What is happening there is a terrible incident, but don't go trying to bring attention to it in a topic where they aren't connected.

[bLUEsTEEL]

You should be glad you have a home and a computer to write that stupid unrelated post.

By the way, I forgot to ask you in my first reply to your beautiful comment but what bus route do you drive? I'd like to say hi the next time I see you.

[swiftshift]

Is it true transit will not operate if the majority members vote Yes to the strike?

[bLUEsTEEL]

You should be glad you have a home and a computer to write that stupid unrelated post.

Oh, and I see from your other Translink related posts that you don't really enjoy being a driver. Maybe you should just find another job or is the pay too good? I mean the pay isn't that good right? I mean if it isn't that good then you wouldn't still be a driver right?

[Alby]

Is it true transit will not operate if the majority members vote Yes to the strike?

during the last strike, didn't they make transit an essential service? meaning if the strike does happen, it would just be reduced services, not completely in-operational.

[bobbinka]

They should be glad they have a job, are getting paid pretty good, and have a home to go to. A lot of people in Fort McMurray don't.

You should be too but what do you care about a possible strike? You have a car right? Anyways, are you really grateful for what you have? I hope so. Oh, by the way have you done anything to help anyone who's been displaced by that fire in Fort Mac?

Oh, and I see from your other Translink related posts that you don't really enjoy being a driver. Maybe you should just find another job or is the pay too good? I mean the pay isn't that good right? I mean if it isn't that good then you wouldn't still be a driver right?

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1822533/jaguars-fan-gif.gif

http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Michael-Scott-Closes-The-Door-Awkwardly-On-The-Office.gif

[Jmac]

Oh, and I see from your other Translink related posts that you don't really enjoy being a driver. Maybe you should just find another job or is the pay too good? I mean the pay isn't that good right? I mean if it isn't that good then you wouldn't still be a driver right?
61 posts in 5 years and about 1/4 of them are in Translink-related threads.

Obviously, you have a motive for being a complete douche. Why don't you just tell us what it is?

[bLUEsTEEL]

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1822533/jaguars-fan-gif.gif

http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Michael-Scott-Closes-The-Door-Awkwardly-On-The-Office.gif

https://33.media.tumblr.com/12c1569d2558c3c754624fb7e09bc789/tumblr_inline_nyaxsuFRAQ1ry9bxx_500.gif

[bLUEsTEEL]

61 posts in 5 years and about 1/4 of them are in Translink-related threads.

Obviously, you have a motive for being a complete douche. Why don't you just tell us what it is?

http://media.indiatimes.in/media/content/2015/Sep/ezgif%20com-resize%201_1442558856.gif

[geeknerd]

Wages for transit operators currently start at $19.57 an hour and top out at $30.91 within two years of employment, which Woods said is a lower wage than other workers in similar positions in B.C.

It's crazy but depending on the answer to a couple questions, I might actually side with translink employees.

If it tops out at $30 in two years, does everyone get $30 in two years?

Do some employees make less even after two years and what percentage of employees that is?

If it tops out, does that mean a bus driver is making $30 even after 10 years?

If I look at $30 right at the two year mark, I believe it is more than fair but it is a different story for other circumstances.

I think the wage structure based on experience could be restructured but its really hard to "take a side" since their is a lack of information or at least I don't know.

But there is no doubt that working conditions can definitely be improved. Especially if this is true for most of the employees:

“We’re not getting fair recovery times, which means that we don’t have time to go to the bathroom, we don’t have time to eat properly, we’re not given any scheduled breaks throughout an eight- or seven-and-a-half-hour shift,” said Woods. "So the reality is that if the bus is later delayed, it’s likely that the transit operator didn’t have a chance to get a snack, go to the bathroom or have a meal break.”

And this bites the people in the ass because some drivers skip people/stops or basically delay the bus.

[GoldenBoy]

It's crazy but depending on the answer to a couple questions, I might actually side with translink employees.

If it tops out at $30 in two years, does everyone get $30 in two years?

Do some employees make less even after two years and what percentage of employees that is?

If it tops out, does that mean a bus driver is making $30 even after 10 years?

If I look at $30 right at the two year mark, I believe it is more than fair but it is a different story for other circumstances.

I think the wage structure based on experience could be restructured but its really hard to "take a side" since their is a lack of information or at least I don't know.

But there is no doubt that working conditions can definitely be improved. Especially if this is true for most of the employees:



And this bites the people in the ass because some drivers skip people/stops or basically delay the bus.

I found this about what TTC drivers make I want to be a transit driver. What will my salary be? - The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/careers/career-advice/life-at-work/i-want-to-be-a-transit-driver-what-will-my-salary-be/article18663170/). This is from 2014 but they top out after 5 years. For any job I don't think it's just about how much but also about how soon. If they top out at 2 years in the long run they're making a lot more than their peers who are topping out at 5 years. It's too bad there isn't a lot of information coming from both sides.

[MG1]

The thing with these massive public companies is there is no accountability for spending, checks/balances etc. they all act like money is never ending and the "cuts" they make are almost always superficial.

I have a friend who works for the Vancouver school board, I'm tempted to make a thread to post some of the shit he has told me regarding pure fucking waste. Yet they are on the news non-stop begging for money etc.

Vancouver School Board has always been messed up. Back when I went to Strathcona, they gave every kid free notebooks and pencils with "Vancouver School Board" stamped on everything. Endless supply of stuff. Things were always thrown out on a regular basis. The Minstry of Education is worse. New curriculum every two or three years with books being thrown out and money thrown at useless and meaningless research. Millions of dollars spent on electronic reporting systems that make absolutely no sense. I can go on, but most of us have seen it.

[nah]

Vancouver School Board has always been messed up. Back when I went to Strathcona, they gave every kid free notebooks and pencils with "Vancouver School Board" stamped on everything. Endless supply of stuff. Things were always thrown out on a regular basis. The Minstry of Education is worse. New curriculum every two or three years with books being thrown out and money thrown at useless and meaningless research. Millions of dollars spent on electronic reporting systems that make absolutely no sense. I can go on, but most of us have seen it.

I remember moving from Vancouver to Surrey as a kid and my first day of school, I didn't bring a thing cause I thought it was like Vancouver.

"You guys have to buy your own school supplies??" :rukidding: