[girlcrazy_420]

Hey guys, I am running in circles trying to find answers. I know there are some law students on here who I hope could chime in.

My vehicle got hit by a alberta driver on a Forest service road in January (in BC) He cut the corner and drove into my truck. I have submitted pictures (tire marks in snow works in my benifit), drawings, witness statement, and police report (other driver said I was drunk and he called the cops saying so since I was coming down from the bush on a saturday eve i had to have been drunk. I blew a 0.0... I was a designated driver fyi The other driver blew over, but could not be used as evidence as he was not behind the wheel when the rcmp arrived claiming he started drinking after the accident due to stress... stupid technicality.)

Anyways, I do not pay for collision with ICBC. (pointing out the facts)

icbc has deemed this accident 100% fault to the other driver for cutting the corner and being 100% on my side of the road going around a corner (drifting) He wrote my truck off. His insurance company is saying it is my fault, but they do not have any reasons other than "its my fault" So here lies my issue. Since I do not pay collision with ICBC, they will not continue to fight for me. The Alberta company has pretty much told me to fuck myself. What do I do? My insurance adjuster has given up on fighting for me. Do I need a lawyer? Or should I do a small claims. ICBC said the value of my vehicle is around 14grand... do I sue for the entire amount my vehicle is worth? Should I walk away and just forget about the ordeal? Can the Alberta insurance company sue me????? I could use ANY advice. I've got a 12 year accident free driving record. I know for a fact I did nothing wrong, yet I am in the blame.

[roastpuff]

How do you not pay for collision? Who insured your vehicle for BC roads? If you do not have an insurance company then you're basically out of luck. You can try small claims but good luck on that.

[68style]

Stop smoking weed, become "richgirlcrazy" instead of just "girlcrazy" and maybe she will buy collision coverage for you next time.

Sounds like you gotta lawyer up.

[smoothie.]

collision is only needed if you're at fault, and even then they would pay for the other party through your basic.

what coverage do you have?

[quasi]

I'd go to small claims court, you have evidence to present as long as you can prove more likely then not that your account of evidence is what actually happened you should win. You'll have to serve him with papers once filed, if he lives in Alberta that might be a challenge but you can pay someone to do that for you.

About Us | Canadian Process Serving (http://www.canadianprocessserving.com/about-us/)

I wouldn't let it go based on principal alone but that's just me.

[b0unce. [?]]

You mentioned it was on a FSR. ICBC has told me before my insurance is essentially out the window if you're offroading. Hit and runs, collisions and vehicle damage is all on you because you have zero coverage. Once again, this is what I was told when I was a claim center.

[DragonChi]

Is there coverage from ICBC that includes off road accidents? Would it be comprehensive?

[320icar]

Uh. Collision covers you if you are found not at fault. Email this to a few news places locally (global be, cbc etc...) and see if they want to run a story

[quasi]

Uh. Collision covers you if you are found not at fault. Email this to a few news places locally (global be, cbc etc...) and see if they want to run a story

Collision is for when you are at fault not when you're not at fault. It's the other persons basic insurance that covers you when not at fault. It's irrelevant in this case anyway as the OP has stated they do not have that type of coverage.

Collision (http://www.icbc.com/autoplan/optional/Pages/collision-coverage.aspx)


Collision coverage

Cover repair and replacement costs, even if you’re at fault.

Even the best drivers can make mistakes, and fixing your vehicle can be expensive. Collision coverage helps pay for your vehicle repairs, towing, storage and more, even if the crash was your fault.
How does Collision coverage help you?

Collision coverage covers your repair costs when you hit another vehicle, object or the surface of the road.

[J.Bell]

Similar thing just happened to me today. Car was parked curb side across the street of a construction site, and a semi trailer delivering material to our site backed right into my car, hitting the door and surrounding area. Driver had Quebec plates. Called ICBC right away to report it, and they told me because I don't have collision, I'd have to call the other guys insurance and deal with it myself. WTF do I pay for insurance for, if I have to do their job!? I honestly thought that collision meant you're covered if the accident it your own fault, don't quite understand how this works. Anyone with some info would be appreciated. My situation was almost a hit and run, so why would I need collision if the other driver admits he's at fault. WTF ICBC!

[Urrtoast]

Similar thing just happened to me today. Car was parked curb side across the street of a construction site, and a semi trailer delivering material to our site backed right into my car, hitting the door and surrounding area. Driver had Quebec plates. Called ICBC right away to report it, and they told me because I don't have collision, I'd have to call the other guys insurance and deal with it myself. WTF do I pay for insurance for, if I have to do their job!? I honestly thought that collision meant you're covered if the accident it your own fault, don't quite understand how this works. Anyone with some info would be appreciated. My situation was almost a hit and run, so why would I need collision if the other driver admits he's at fault. WTF ICBC!

Why don't you have collision? Seems like you are under insured to me then.
Maybe you can claim it under comprehensive.

[J.Bell]

Didn't think I needed it, being that I don't drive much these days. Plus I give ICBC enough of my money, for a service they hardly provide. Least they could do is help out their paying customers.

[jasonturbo]

Best advice is to contact his insurance company directly and request a written explanation for why your claim was denied.

If they come back with a half ass answer, tell them you are going to the media to complain about being treated unfairly and see if they cave. If they don't cave, contact one of the "Global TV Trouble Shooter" cunts who love to disrupt society etc and see if they will play ball.

If that doesn't work you can always have a lawyer draft up a nasty letter threatening litigation. If that doesn't get them to pay up then you are basically looking at litigation, small claims court is limited to <5000$.

GL

[DragonChi]

^ Missing a zero on that 50k. Small claims court is setup to be used by everyday citizens. I would also get a letter from ICBC saying that the other party is at 100% fault. That, along with your evidence, I see you winning the case. As long as it's worth a trip for you go goto Alberta to present your case, if you win, I think you get reimbursed for that as well.

I also think that ICBC should keep fighting for you, since by the definition that Quasi posted, collision wouldn't have done anything for you in your situation. ICBC is supposed to be paying you if you're not at fault. isn't that what insurance is for?

I think this is what OP would have required, it seems like it's included in basic coverage:
http://www.icbc.com/autoplan/basic/Pages/Default.aspx

"Even if the person who’s responsible for a crash doesn’t have enough insurance to pay for your claim, Underinsured Motorist protection covers you."

Uninsured with ICBC, or insured in another province, what's the difference, they're still not ICBC.

[RRxtar]

;8754555']You mentioned it was on a FSR. ICBC has told me before my insurance is essentially out the window if you're offroading. Hit and runs, collisions and vehicle damage is all on you because you have zero coverage. Once again, this is what I was told when I was a claim center.
not true. I had almost the exact same accident as OP in February on a snowy FSR. Guy cut the corner and I had nowhere to go other than the side of his truck. Wrote my Jeep off. We were way out on an FSR, and I sent ICBC the GPS coordinates of the location. ICBC had a question or two about the location but had no problem covering me. I had collision and the other party was from BC tho.

A named FSR is still considered a highway. It's not until you leave the FSR offroad onto an unnamed trail, or logging lease road, that it gets a little different.

[quasi]

Similar thing just happened to me today. Car was parked curb side across the street of a construction site, and a semi trailer delivering material to our site backed right into my car, hitting the door and surrounding area. Driver had Quebec plates. Called ICBC right away to report it, and they told me because I don't have collision, I'd have to call the other guys insurance and deal with it myself. WTF do I pay for insurance for, if I have to do their job!? I honestly thought that collision meant you're covered if the accident it your own fault, don't quite understand how this works. Anyone with some info would be appreciated. My situation was almost a hit and run, so why would I need collision if the other driver admits he's at fault. WTF ICBC!

This isn't a collision claim it would not have helped you at all, it could have been a comprehensive claim. Comprehensive insurance covers things like hit & run, theft, fire, road debris damaging your vehicle. If you had Comprehensive coverage you could claim a hit and run, unfortunately you got kind of fucked that the guy is out of Province because if he was here and you knew who hit you then it would be covered under his basic ICBC insurance.

My wifes car got hit by a piece of plywood a few weeks ago that was laying on the road and launched into the air by a big truck in front of her. The damage ended up being a few thousand dollars, it was covered under her comprehensive $300 deductible and insurance rates do not go up.

[meme405]

SC court is 25000. Not 5k and not 50k.

You can Sue for more than 25000 and win, but the max settlement you will receive is 25000

not true. I had almost the exact same accident as OP in February on a snowy FSR. Guy cut the corner and I had nowhere to go other than the side of his truck. Wrote my Jeep off. We were way out on an FSR, and I sent ICBC the GPS coordinates of the location. ICBC had a question or two about the location but had no problem covering me. I had collision and the other party was from BC tho.

A named FSR is still considered a highway. It's not until you leave the FSR offroad onto an unnamed trail, or logging lease road, that it gets a little different.

This is absolutely true, you can go online and find what RR you are on, and provide that to ICBC. Usually will have km markers and signs every once in awhile.

[DragonChi]

SC court is 25000. Not 5k and not 50k.

You can Sue for more than 25000 and win, but the max settlement you will receive is 25000



This is absolutely true, you can go online and find what RR you are on, and provide that to ICBC. Usually will have km markers and signs every once in awhile.

In Alberta, where this case will likely happen is 50k. In BC, small claims court is still 25k. Actually, I don't know where this case will be heard. I assumed it would be in Alberta.

[rubadub13]

If the witness is saying that it was the other driver who was at-fault then, ICBC should be fighting on your behalf. I would say your only chance of holding the other driver liable is the witness report.

But if its your word against his... then you should ask your adjuster to settle it 50/50... atleast you will get half your vehicle covered for you.

The AB insurance company could sue you, but ICBC would be in your defence if you carried third-party liability. I think its worth following up on... atleast try to get it 50/50 if the both adjusters think its your word against his.

[meme405]

In Alberta, where this case will likely happen is 50k. In BC, small claims court is still 25k. Actually, I don't know where this case will be heard. I assumed it would be in Alberta.

The incident occurred in BC, why would court be heard in AB?

[Kalize]

If you had collision ICBC would fix ur truck right away (yes you would have to pay the deductible) and act as your lawyer. Subrogation clause. ICBC helps you and then sues the other party for you. You don't need to worry about a thing.

Once the claim is settled and it is determined that your were not at fault you will be given your deductible back and the claim will NOT be charged against you.

Since you don't have coverage for collision you are responsible for your own vehicle for repair or replace and you have to fight for yourself against this other party. Sue the other driver and have your proof in writing that he was at fault then their Alberta company will pay out.

[Soundy]

;8754555']You mentioned it was on a FSR. ICBC has told me before my insurance is essentially out the window if you're offroading. Hit and runs, collisions and vehicle damage is all on you because you have zero coverage. Once again, this is what I was told when I was a claim center.

FSR travel is not "off-roading".

[Eff-1]

collision coverage has nothing to do with who's at fault.

think of it like this:

in BC, everyone has to buy basic insurance so that we all have a minimum amount of coverage for our medical bills and expenses in case we are injured in a crash, no matter who was at fault. it also covers some basic 3rd party coverage in case you're found at fault for injuring or damaging property. that's it!

collision coverage pays for repairs to your vehicle if it's damaged from hitting something. fault has nothing to do with it. if you have collision coverage, and it's not your fault, then your vehicle gets fixed and you don't have to pay a deductible and your premiums don't change. if you are at fault, then you pay the deductible and your premium will increase. in other words, if you don't have collision coverage, then you're taking all the risk if there is damage to your vehicle that results from a collision, even if it wasn't your fault. there are only a few small cases when ICBC will pay for repairs to your car if you don't have collision coverage. hit and run is one of those (you would have to pay the first $750 or your collision deductible, whichever is lower).

comprehensive coverage covers damage to your vehicle as a result of something that's NOT a collision. like theft, vandalism, fire, or projectiles like rocks hitting it. you pay your deductible for repairs, but your premiums don't change.

If you have an old beater of a car, it may make financial sense to avoid buying collision. then if an accident happens, so be it. repairs would be cheap or not necessary, and the worst case is you'll write off a car that's only worth a couple thousand, let's say. not the end of the world. but I bet most of us can't afford thousands of dollars of repairs or having a car written off suddenly, so that's why you need that coverage.

[Reeyal]

Eff-1 is correct.

AIRB : Automobile Insurance Rate Board - For Drivers - Getting Insurance (http://www.airb.alberta.ca/drivers/getting_insurance.aspx)


Types of Automobile Insurance Coverage

There are different types of coverage and benefits available through an automobile insurance policy. The principal coverage is listed below; you can consult an insurance professional for a thorough assessment of your insurance requirements.

Basic Coverage - This coverage is mandatory for operating a motor vehicle.

Third Party Liability. Liability coverage pays for a legal claim against the policyholder in the event that he or she is in some way responsible for an accident that causes injury or damage to a third party. The minimum limit requirement is $200,000.

Accident Benefits. Accident Benefits cover occupants of a vehicle in the event of injury. Coverage includes medical/rehabilitation costs, funeral expenses, death benefits, income replacement.

Additional Coverage - This coverage is optional.

Collision. Collision coverage pays for the repair of a policyholder's vehicle if the vehicle is damaged in an accident caused by collision with another object or upset. There is usually a deductible amount indicated for this coverage. The deductible is either paid by the policyholder toward the cost of repairs or deducted from the claims settlement.

Comprehensive. Comprehensive provides coverage for damage resulting from other than a collision, such as hail, vandalism, theft or fire. There is usually a deductible amount for this coverage. The deductible is either paid by the policyholder toward the cost of repairs or deducted from the claims settlement.

[...]

[xxxrsxxx]

What if you don't have collision and your old beater is a write off.
Would ICBC compensate in either case of "at fault" and "not at fault"

[Eff-1]

What if you don't have collision and your old beater is a write off.
Would ICBC compensate in either case of "at fault" and "not at fault"

No. No collision coverage = no compensation.

[evil_jigglypuff]

I understand that ICBC won't pay out on "at fault" claims as collision is under "own damages" meaning anything that you incurred to your "own" vehicle, they will not repair on your behalf.

But if claim was "not at fault", other party's liability insurance should be paying for the claim no?

[Eff-1]

In all claims (at fault and not-at-fault), your collision coverage pays for the repairs at first, then it gets charged back to the other driver's policy if you're not-at-fault.

[quasi]

Nevermind, answered above. :)

[evil_jigglypuff]

Does that mean then if driver A didn't have collision coverage and get in a "not at fault" claim, driver B who then is "at fault" gets off scot-free from his liability insurance(given that there are no injuries involved) paying since there is nothing for that coverage to pay for. So basically only driver B's collision coverage will pay for his own vehicle?

[DragonChi]

The incident occurred in BC, why would court be heard in AB?

Since the court is in the Province of the defendant's then they would be obliged to comply. More so, than if it was in BC.

For example, if you got a ticket in Seattle, would you care as much as if you had gotten a ticket here?

That was my logic behind it.

[smoothie.]

In all claims (at fault and not-at-fault), your collision coverage pays for the repairs at first, then it gets charged back to the other driver's policy if you're not-at-fault.

my understanding is that you can have basic only, but if the other party is 100% at fault, their basic insurance will cover yours?

did this change recently?

[rubadub13]

Does that mean then if driver A didn't have collision coverage and get in a "not at fault" claim, driver B who then is "at fault" gets off scot-free from his liability insurance(given that there are no injuries involved) paying since there is nothing for that coverage to pay for. So basically only driver B's collision coverage will pay for his own vehicle?

Nope. If driver B is at-fault, his insurance company has to pay for driver A's
damages regardless of if drive A has collision coverage or not. The penalty for driver B is he must pay his own collision deductible to repair his own vehicle and his premiums may go up because of the at-fault accident.

Collision covers you for your own vehicles damages regardless of fault. You just need to pay the deductible if its your fault.

[Reeyal]

my understanding is that you can have basic only, but if the other party is 100% at fault, their basic insurance will cover yours?

did this change recently?

You know, I always thought that was the case until some people without collision insurance started to get accidents. Insurance companies were denying claims left and right.

Apparently, no collision coverage, no compensation at all.

[Eff-1]

sorry, I should clarify something. if you don't have collision coverage, and you are not-at-fault, JCBC may cover your damage if the other driver has ICBC mandatory basic 3rd party liability coverage. in the two examples mentioned in this thread, because the at-fault driver was from out-of-province and isn't insured by ICBC, that's why you need collision coverage, or the responsibility of seeking compensation from the other driver becomes your responsibility.

[jack86]

sorry, I should clarify something. if you don't have collision coverage, and the other party is at fault, JCBC Will cover your damage if the other driver has ICBC mandatory basic 3rd party liability coverage. in the two examples mentioned in this thread, because the at-fault driver was from out-of-province and isn't insured by ICBC, that's why you need collision coverage, or the responsibility of seeking compensation from the other driver becomes your responsibility.

this sounds a lilttle better. so much misinformation in this thread. People should take a lot of the post on this thread with a grain of salt.

[NNT]

never know you can opt out on collision coverage. so for the guys that dont buy collision coverage and if you hit a Ferrari, then you are fucked?

[evil_jigglypuff]

if you hit a Ferrari and you don't have collision coverage, you will be ok as long as you have third party liability which we do with all "basic" coverage. Gives you $200,000 coverage. you can purchase extended tpl from $500,000 to max of $5mil

[jack86]

never know you can opt out on collision coverage. so for the guys that dont buy collision coverage and if you hit a Ferrari, then you are fucked?

Disclaimer: The following is not insurance advice.

Basiclly, we are in a common law province. so we look at it from the legality point of view when determining if one party if one party covers the repair cost of another.

for example, if it was I was in an accident with another vehicle and it was my fault. The other party doesn't need collision coverage because I am legally responsible to indemnify them(put them back where they were if there were no accident) .
So if I am legally liable, my 3rd party will cover THEIR cost.

Basiclly, My fault, they sue me, my 3rd party coverage protects me, assuming I did not violate the terms of my condition(which is where lawyer come in and make money fighting to see covered or not).

3rd party = cover other party, could be other vehicles, pedestrian, bicycle, even your passengers

Collision = Covers your own vehicle in an accident, whether you are at fault or not (some exceptions, such as hitting wild animal). inc hit and run.

Comprehensive - coverage is quite broad, but basically, vandalism, theft, flying object, plus bunch of other things including hitting WILD animal.

UMP - Excess under insured motorist protection - this cover YOU in the event of a car accident. I must clarify , it covers you and not your vehicle. We get $1mil when we have a BC driver's license, do don't even need to buy car insurance to have coverage.

Note: hit and run from other vehicles/motorcycle are covered with $750 deductible in BC. you don't need collision coverage (there are some fine prints)

TPL- Third party liability - min 200k, max 5 mil from icbc. Injury claims have skyrocketed in recent years. Like it or not, it will be here to stay. Before anyone say fraud, I must say there are many that are legit. And it adds up quite fast. Most million dollars claim is not due to pain and suffering, contrary to popular belief. It is due to loss of earnings or long term healthcare. General rule of thumb, the younger the victim, the more you pay.
For example, kill a 25 yrs old mechanic. loss of earnings would be like:
annual salary X Number of years left in career.
ex. $50k x 40 years (65 years retirement) = 2 MIl. kill 2 mechanic, 4 mil.
and that's only loss of earnings, add in pain and suffering, medical bill, their vehicles. And no, bankruptcy won't protect you from this.

But to answer OP's question,
Basically, sue in AB. if AB court ok, their AB insurance pay.
But you must think about the time/cost spent going after this guy to see if it is worth it. Or just use this as a lesson learned.

I'll try to answer your questions, feel free to ask.

[jack86]

And I forgot to mention,

If you say you have 1 million TPL, and the other party have injuries and the ICBC lawyer estimated that the settlment is going to be between 1.3-1.8Mil.
ICBC is just going to cut a 1mil check to the other party, and you will have to pay for your own legal defence.
whereas, if ICBC thinks your TPL is enough to cover the cost of settlement, ICBC will pay for your defense.
So always good to have enough coverage, especially when you have a house or good job.