[wingies]

Need to drive the parents around more as they're getting old and the family is growing, so looking to change things up. Gonna get rid of the AP2, but would like to keep things fun and sporty while still being somewhat practical.

1) Safety Features
2) Driveability (weather condition, comfort)
3) Insurance, Maintenance, Gas Mileage (approx annual, etc)
4) Technological features
5) Fun Factor

Really torn between these cars, don't really know enough to come to a decision. Would appreciate any advice; if you had or currently had one of these cars please chime in! Thanks RS

[roastpuff]

All-weather? Audi S4 with upgrades....

Otherwise my vote goes to the C63. The IS-F rear seat is pretty tight, moreso than the other two.

[freakshow]

They're all pretty similar with regards to tech, milage and maintenance.. I would choose the M3 for drivability over the others though.


or trade your ap2 for my m5.. srs..

[JoshuaWong]

M3, actually my mom and my aunties love sitting in it too even though its a coupe and they are getting old. But once inside its all good.

[Timpo]

ISF

You can't argue with Toyota are reliability.

[ncrx]

if only leasing and returning any of the 3 will work
if planning to keep past warranty or buying something off warranty, i'd take the lexus in a heartbeat

[white rocket]

ISF You can't argue with Toyota are reliability.

Absolutely. I'm sure the M3 and C63 have some pluses over the IS-F but you just can't mess with a Euro without warranty. I'm heavily biased though and the IS-F is a dream daily for me.

<-----currently driving an S63 waiting for it to break :S

[Indy]

Just throwing this out there...but why not a Q50?

[fishCak3s]

Test drove an IS-F and was going to pull the trigger but it has almost to no backseat. wife is 5'2 and she said she felt suffocated from sitting at the back.

Only the M3 gives you the manual option, the other 2 don't.

AND

I'll buy your AP2 :thumbs:

[flagella]

Correct me if I'm wrong but can IS-F even fit 3 people at the back? I recall the middle isn't even a seat. Also I've sat in regular IS before and the headroom at the back is a joke. I assume interior space wise they are the same. Not being able to fit 3 ppl in the back could be a huge factor.

[Nlkko]

ISF only has 2 backseats. The middle is not for sitting. It is not padded and there is no seatbelt.

Only regular IS has 3 seats in the back.

Out of the 3, the F is the only car you should buy used without a warranty.

[smoothie.]

buy a camry to drive family around in

keep the s2k

[flagella]

Yea, seriously. It makes more sense to get a cheap roomy and comfy sedan and keep the s2k than consolidating.

[nsx042003]

ISF

sure no manual, but you are considering the C63 anyway so i don't think it's much of an issue. The M3 is pretty reliable too, but i think the ISF looks nicer. The M3 is a German athlete, the ISF a Japanese Samurai and the C63 a mafia muscle car, haha that's how i see it.

[vitaminG]

M3 is also the only one that is available without navi and you can put an aftermarket deck in it, i wouldnt want a near 10 yr old infotainment system.

i would probably get a b8 s4 though, newer for same price, awd, manual or dsg, plenty quick stock or with chip and pulley its 400+ hp

[bcuzracecarz]

E9x M3 is surprisingly reliable, way better than any of the turbo'd models in the last few years and have few problems, sound incredible and give the best overall driving experience, can get in 4 doors and backseat even in the Coupe is comfortable, my mom who's 62 and 5'9" has no problems volunteering to get back there and finds it quite comfy, I don't know about the other 2 but the M3 is rape for insurance and gas, I'd imagine gas mileage on the others aren't much better. ISF is always going to be near the top for reliability becuz yota and 4 doors is nice but backseat size is shocking how small for a Sedan, sound and looks don't totally excite me, c63 doesn't interest me but they do sound like death.B8 S4 is a solid unit as well, fairly reliable, quick and practical with awd and 4doors, and tuned can be a good hwy crusier, but sort of a blah driving experience out of the box.....that's just my 2c but I'm not buying for you, I'll never get rid of my m3

[TOPEC]

IS-F will be a trouble free car that will last a long time, issue is finding a clean one that has not been abused, same goes for the c63. early M3 had bearing issues, which gets quite costly. C63 wise, u'll get addicted to the torque so gas millage and rear tires suffer big time.

LOL @ ppl recommending a S4 over M3/IS-F/C63, completely different class of car

[jasonturbo]

One thing to consider with ISF is that the rear seats do not fold down, they do on the C63 and M3.

If you want a manual you are limited to the M3, cost of ownership will be M3>C63>ISF, resale depreciation will probably be C63>ISF>M3 (In order of most depreciation to least).

I'm a big fan of all three cars and have come very close to buying all of them a number of times... after hours and hours of deliberating I always end up chasing the M3.

All good cars, GL!

[prolepsis]

Everyone pretty much covered the key points. I think you'll enjoy any of those three.

I had an AP1 and currently have an E92 M3. I did consider C63 and ISF, but for me, I wanted stick shift so that pretty much made the choice for me. That and it felt like a good all-around car.

Also, I like how the V8 is relatively high revving. The shifter is pretty standard BMW though (to me a little rubbery and can be notch), and does not compare to the S2000.

[bcuzracecarz]

Nothing compares to an s2k shifter

[bokch0y]

I'm a fan of all 3, but from a reliability aspect, I'd go with the ISF. Only prob with the ISF is back seats are only 2 people and I find the look is starting to become dated. The m3's are always ageless imo.

[westopher]

Decide whats most important to you.
Driving dynamics = M3
Reliability = IS-F
Free coffee while your car is being fixed = C63

Seriously all the cars are going to be great, but BMW essentially invented this class of car. I think they have always done it the best. Especially since you are going to miss rowing the gears of your s2k.

All will be very safe, all will be absolute pigs on gas, all are expensive to maintain when something does go wrong, but I have a hard time believing any will be as fun as the m3.

[Cman333]

I debated between all those cars and the S4.

I opted for the E90 M3. Love it. But as others have stated do your research on what years you're planning on buying. Some years are better than others, but obviously the newer the more they cost.

Euro's naturally are alot more expensive to keep on the road. I would estimate easily $3-5k a year in maintenance/repairs. Brakes go faster, tires go faster, parts break down a little more frequently, alot of weird parts you have to buy from OEM.

ISF - Most reliable, probably the least fun of the 3 IMO. Bad mileage.
M3 - Handles the best, parts expensive. Shitty mileage. Horrible in snow.
C63 - Fastest, parts most expensive. Really shitty mileage. Completely useless in snow.

Don't expect Honda/Toyota econo car type of reliability from ANY of these cars. High performance comes at a cost. Last thing you want is the car to malfunction and can't afford to fix it. If the occassional $2K+ repair/maintenance bills will ruin you then I don't think any of these cars are for you. If the odd brutal bill won't financially ruin you, then you won't regret these cars. Engine wise these cars are solid, it's the oddball vehicle specific components that tend to randomly die. Replacement parts usually run $1500-4000 before labour.

E9x M3 example.
Throttle actuators are $1400 ea (need two usually)+ install
Rod bearing replacements $2500-3000
Brake rotors $500ish ea rotor
Pads $200+/ $40 sensors/ etc
Stupid Air Sensor of some sorts plus whatever parts needed $1300 + install
2008 clutch/flywheel $3400 + install

Not to scare you off. This type of stuff eventually will happen, not all at once. But probably over the years.

If you're hands on, and have a programmer then you can save some money. Just sucks when it's your daily driver something breaks, and you need to wait days/weeks for parts.


If given a chance to change my mind, would I? Hell no. The driving satisfaction is so worth it. I had a Lexus I drove for 5 years, loved it, reliable as fuck and comfy. But I got bored and missed something sporty. I might drive a little more spirited than in my Lexus, but it was worth it. Now I'm in the market for a comfy grandpa car as my daily and keep the M3 as a weekend car. I miss not worrying about speed bumps/potholes/parking dividers/door dings. My m3 causes me too much anxiety lol. Like a high maintenance gf. Sometimes you just want a good wifey that doesn't stress ya out all the time :p

[Cman333]

M3 is also the only one that is available without navi and you can put an aftermarket deck in it, i wouldnt want a near 10 yr old infotainment system.


Technically Metra or Scosche is releasing a dash kit for the IS

2006-up Lexus IS250 IS350 IS series Double DIN or DIN with Pocket <br>**Pre-orders Only** ls2151b SCOSCHE (http://www.installer.com/item/display_item.php?it=ls2151b)

Not sure when, but I saw it at SEMA last year. I would assume it should be releasing soon :p

[Hcoreposer]

Might as well put the Evo & STI into consideration too :P which i'd rather choose from over the other 3.

[twitchyzero]

One thing to consider with ISF is that the rear seats do not fold down, they do on the C63 and M3.


ISF without a bitch seat/folddown seats automatically loses the practicality game.
a well maintained M3 is probably the favourable choice...it'll also win in resale value against the C63

[wingies]

Damnnn ISF only fits 2 in the back? That is a major deal breaker for practicality, since I would normally need to fit 3 in the back. For the c63 and m3 I'm already budgeted that the car will need at least 2-3k a year in maintenance, is that too optimistic? I'm also a roadstar, 43% discount, how much do you guys with m3 pay?

I know ideally I should be keeping the AP2, but I've had it for about 6 years. Even my wife doesnt think I should get rid of it either, but I feel like I should move on to the next stage in my life. And leasing another car to the stable is not practical in both financial sense and space wise (since I have a winter beater also), if I only use it to take my family around.

The AP2 is already pending to a close friend, but if he backs out I will probably trade it in to a dealership to save on the tax and give me a little more bargaining power, given they have a car I want in stock.

Seems like the M3 is the best "bang for the buck" in terms of overall driveability, resale value,reliability. I'm gonna see if I can find one at a dealership this weekend to get a better feel for. Thanks guys!

[Nabatron]

I would go M3 for sure but making sure you have good warranty with it since everyone knows german parts/maintenance are not cheap!

[SSM_DC5]

Keep the ap2 and drive your parents in their own car.:fuckyea:

I don't know how mobile your parents are, but it might be something to consider as you choose another car. For example, bad hips which result in pain when they sit in a low car. Or small back seats that they can't contort themselves into

[GLOW]

I don't know how mobile your parents are, but it might be something to consider as you choose another car. For example, bad hips which result in pain when they sit in a low car. Or small back seats that they can't contort themselves into

my friend had to drive his older parents around and had to get rid of his sporty sedan that was a firmer ride & lower and went to a CUV for comfort. mind you his parents are in their 80's

[Cman333]

Might as well put the Evo & STI into consideration too :P which i'd rather choose from over the other 3.

Those are some of my all time favourites too. But they drive completely different. It's basically an economy car with a big jump in performance/handling. But again, it falls into the same category of higher maintenance and big gas bills. But not Luxury pricing, but still much more expensive.

Personally I like sporty with modern luxuries. Overall fit and finish feels much more sturdy in a Euro over Japanese IMO. The steering feels better also. If you know Subaru's, you know they're not exactly hassle free. Like most turbo cars.

[Cman333]

Damnnn ISF only fits 2 in the back? That is a major deal breaker for practicality, since I would normally need to fit 3 in the back. For the c63 and m3 I'm already budgeted that the car will need at least 2-3k a year in maintenance, is that too optimistic? I'm also a roadstar, 43% discount, how much do you guys with m3 pay?

I know ideally I should be keeping the AP2, but I've had it for about 6 years. Even my wife doesnt think I should get rid of it either, but I feel like I should move on to the next stage in my life. And leasing another car to the stable is not practical in both financial sense and space wise (since I have a winter beater also), if I only use it to take my family around.

The AP2 is already pending to a close friend, but if he backs out I will probably trade it in to a dealership to save on the tax and give me a little more bargaining power, given they have a car I want in stock.

Seems like the M3 is the best "bang for the buck" in terms of overall driveability, resale value,reliability. I'm gonna see if I can find one at a dealership this weekend to get a better feel for. Thanks guys!

Remember $2-3k MINIMUM annual costs. It obviously depends on which year, how many kms, and how much you drive. Don't for get the money you spend on upgrading ;).

My first year on the M3, I was into it for about $6k in repairs/maintenance (throttle actuator x1, front brakes, tires, fluid changes). Insurance with full discount runs me about $2300/year. I average about 250kms/tank on 91 octane. Got like 320ish doing one seattle trip.

A lot of used dealerships will let you test drive their cars. I drove 10 different cars (4x m3, 3x c63,2x s4, 1x ISF) before I settled on one. I was really debating between C63 and the E90 M3 ( I like sedans).

My opinions on the cars:

C63 is a like a crazy rowdy muscle car. You want to drive it like an asshole and let the rear end slip out. If you dare turn off traction control you're in for a ride. The exhaust tone is so intoxicating. I personally liked the interior the most, and exterior was appealing. My main thing that detoured me was how much more the parts are to replace, the frequency of replacing them, and the low ceiling in the back. I'm not exactly super tall but found it uncomfy in the back since my head was touching the ceiling. All around awesome car, so fun to drive. Seems the flashiest to me.

B8 S4. In plain words. Underwhelming. Exterior and Performance. After driving all the others, this felt the slowest. I loved the interior of the vehicle. It's classy. But the rest is just so subtle. Not exciting at all. You're paying about the same price and it feels like you're not getting enough in comparison. In it's defense this car is not suppose to be grouped in with the others, this is supposed to grouped with the 335, but it's used pricing is up there. I know this car can be modded to be fast, but for myself I like my engines stock and hassle free.

ISF. Literally feels like a fast IS. The steering feel is too soft for my liking. Only fits 4 people. The interior seems a little boring to me, probably because I came from a Lexus previously. It's nice looking, but not WOW nice like the brand new IS. Interior seems a little too "boy racer" to me. Again, personally I just didn't feel wowed by the car. When you close the doors, it doesn't have that nice solid thump. Feels like any other Japanese car. Fun car, but for the same amount of money as the other contenders just didn't seem to be my taste.

M3. I picked this because it basically was the best in my eyes out of the 4 cars. It handles much better than the C63 and the others, the v8 exhaust tone is awesome (not as bad ass as the C63 though but better than the S4 and ISF), It comes in DCT or 6 Speed, You have a choice of sedan or coupe/convert., It doesn't chew through tires as badly as C63, The interior is quite nice. Exterior is nice and sporty without being too flashy. It's an EASY fun car to drive, I felt like the C63 if I gave a little too much throttle I would wrap it around a pole. The M3 is easy and predictable to control. Not so torquey. But I really liked the craziness of the C63. Just not for year round driving for me. If you're buying a 6 speed or want navigation, consider buying a 09+.

Regardless which route you go, you'll still love it. They're all great cars. Just depends on your own personal tastes.

Again these are just MY OWN opinions on the vehicles. Don't tear me a new asshole because I didn't favour the other cars :p

[TouringTeg]

If you are tired of the AP2 and want something different and more functional the M3 is the best mix. Just be prepared to spend much more on insurance, gas and repairs.

I agree with your wife. I would keep the AP2 as a weekend / summer car. Nice to have a car in the garage that is fun to drive, reliable and appreciating in value.

Instead upgrade your winter to a nice reliable 4 door daily.

[bcuzracecarz]

My god you have a heavy foot to get 250kms to a tank and 320kms on the hwy lol Must. Not. Leave. 2nd. Gear.

[richardmozis]

Would you consider the 2nd gen Cadillac CTS-V? I mean it's pretty much an AMG with a worse interior but you can get a manual.

[Cman333]

My god you have a heavy foot to get 250kms to a tank and 320kms on the hwy lol Must. Not. Leave. 2nd. Gear.

Like I said. I like spirited driving. If I seriously try to nurse it MAYBE I get like 300kms. My friends w/ E92's get 350. I think that's damn near impossible for me.

I generally accelerate a bit harder off the line. I cruise in 3rd or 4th gear in the city. I like hearing the exhaust tone. Mine's not insanely loud, so I tend to gun it a bit so I can hear it. I just love the way it sounds, loud but not obnoxious. And doesn't sound like a fart can.

[jasonturbo]

I can't believe anyone would lump the STI/EVO in with the other three cars :s

STI and EVO are refined like Donald Trump and comfortable like sodomy.

Don't ask me how I know :ohgodwhy:

Seriously though OP, I think you're making the right choice - though the ISF deserves credit for having the best sounding engine IMO.

[Click]

I went through the same thing. Use to have a normal IS and the back seats were really tight so actually didn't consider it.

M3 drove great and sounds wonderful. However, I didn't want to rev it out during city driving (as I had to do with my s2000). After market exhaust on this car sounds amazing.

C63 to me was most suitable for me since I appreciated the low end torque for daily driving. The rumble on the stock exhaust also sounded better than the other two cars in my opinion. Therefore, I went with the C63 and still have my s2000 for weekends.

If you choose C63, make sure to get MY2011 or newer. The ones pre-2011 had head bolt issues. I did research on the mbworld forums before purchasing. Therefore, you will find the older ones (2008-2010) to be quite a lot cheaper compared to 2011 and newer (2012 had the facelift).

Good luck on your search!

[underscore]

What does your wife drive? Considering the cost of M3 maintenance and insurance you could buy something like a Matrix/Fit/etc to drive your parents around and keep the AP2 for when you're driving by yourself and probably end up saving money.

[westopher]

Remember how ridiculous our car storage options can be in Van though. If there was garage space definitely a good option.

[6thGear.]

Cman333 is correct. The S4 is not in the same category. S4 is grouped with 335/C300. RS5 (RS4 if it was still in production) is grouped with M3/C63. I also faced the same decisions when I was looking for a new car. Came down to my B8.5 S4 cause the dealer gave me the best trade in value. But the front runners for me was the 335i/slightly used M3. However my friend telling me the S4 was the best all round daily driver which ultimately led me to the Audi dealer (funny I didn't even think of the S4 originally) and the rest was history. OP if you can't decide which means you're good with any of these cars, it'll come down to price and what fits your lifestyle best.

[twitchyzero]

was jsut gonna say...not everyone has the luxury to have 3+ cars in a household anymore.

[underscore]

Remember how ridiculous our car storage options can be in Van though. If there was garage space definitely a good option.

True, but if the parents don't drive then I assume there might be a parking space at their place that could hold the comfy car until OP goes to get them and drive them somewhere.

[6thGear.]

was jsut gonna say...not everyone has the luxury to have 3+ cars in a household anymore.

I got rid of a daily driven Del Sol Vtec and a comfy but average Volkswagen CC to have a nice semi-luxury daily driver. I also got rid of my GSXR600 which I kind of regret but that's another story. Anyways...given the same scenario I'd do the exact same. In the perfect world we would have all the car space with every car imaginable for every life usage but in this day and age especially living around here it's not going to happen.

[Cman333]

I went through the same thing. Use to have a normal IS and the back seats were really tight so actually didn't consider it.

M3 drove great and sounds wonderful. However, I didn't want to rev it out during city driving (as I had to do with my s2000). After market exhaust on this car sounds amazing.

C63 to me was most suitable for me since I appreciated the low end torque for daily driving. The rumble on the stock exhaust also sounded better than the other two cars in my opinion. Therefore, I went with the C63 and still have my s2000 for weekends.

If you choose C63, make sure to get MY2011 or newer. The ones pre-2011 had head bolt issues. I did research on the mbworld forums before purchasing. Therefore, you will find the older ones (2008-2010) to be quite a lot cheaper compared to 2011 and newer (2012 had the facelift).

Good luck on your search!

I was really torn between the two (c63 and m3). My gf liked the C63 more. Big price jump between 2011+ and older. It really takes a disciplined owner to drive the C63 I think. You just always wanna mash down on the pedal lol.

I totally agree with you on the revving the car to get any real power out of the M3. I feel like I need to go pretty hard off the line just to accelerate and keep up with base model Civics. lol

If you pussy foot the M3, it feels slower than everything. Like those assholes that take 30 sec to get to 50kmph. The torque in the M3 really is lackluster. You can have fun if you really give her, but thing is you HAVE to really push it. I find it feels like I have to be one of those asshole BMW drivers off the line just to accelerate at a NORMAL pace. The C63 just naturally is a torquey beast. You don't have to mash the pedal to accelerate at a normal pace. I still have some regrets on not getting the C63 lol

How's the overall maintenance and reliability on your C63? What would you estimate your annual costs to be? I'm currently on the fence about getting a bigger, faster, automatic car. I've soon realized I miss not having to clutch in/out all the time. I think a manual transmission weekend/track car is great, but for my daily I'm just far too old/lazy/retarded to do it daily any more.

[GLOW]

I'm just far too old/lazy/retarded to do it daily any more.

https://media.giphy.com/media/UjCXeFnYcI2R2/giphy.gif

[bananana]

I was really torn between the two (c63 and m3). My gf liked the C63 more. Big price jump between 2011+ and older. It really takes a disciplined owner to drive the C63 I think. You just always wanna mash down on the pedal lol.

I totally agree with you on the revving the car to get any real power out of the M3. I feel like I need to go pretty hard off the line just to accelerate and keep up with base model Civics. lol

If you pussy foot the M3, it feels slower than everything. Like those assholes that take 30 sec to get to 50kmph. The torque in the M3 really is lackluster. You can have fun if you really give her, but thing is you HAVE to really push it. I find it feels like I have to be one of those asshole BMW drivers off the line just to accelerate at a NORMAL pace. The C63 just naturally is a torquey beast. You don't have to mash the pedal to accelerate at a normal pace. I still have some regrets on not getting the C63 lol

How's the overall maintenance and reliability on your C63? What would you estimate your annual costs to be? I'm currently on the fence about getting a bigger, faster, automatic car. I've soon realized I miss not having to clutch in/out all the time. I think a manual transmission weekend/track car is great, but for my daily I'm just far too old/lazy/retarded to do it daily any more.

I drive an E92 M3 + have spent time in a C63. The AMG has a horribly uninspiring chassis and gas mileage is disgusting. Flooring it across Russ Baker from Richmond to Granville/70th for some noodles cost me 1/4 of a tank of 94. The driver ergos in the C63 are pretty great. Interior is a little small. The tranny is fine in automatic but the paddles don't let you do whatever you want.

In contrast the E92 gives me 15.5L/100km driving like an asshole. Has good interior space. Amazing suspension. Super comfortable.

[Click]

I was really torn between the two (c63 and m3). My gf liked the C63 more. Big price jump between 2011+ and older. It really takes a disciplined owner to drive the C63 I think. You just always wanna mash down on the pedal lol.

I totally agree with you on the revving the car to get any real power out of the M3. I feel like I need to go pretty hard off the line just to accelerate and keep up with base model Civics. lol

If you pussy foot the M3, it feels slower than everything. Like those assholes that take 30 sec to get to 50kmph. The torque in the M3 really is lackluster. You can have fun if you really give her, but thing is you HAVE to really push it. I find it feels like I have to be one of those asshole BMW drivers off the line just to accelerate at a NORMAL pace. The C63 just naturally is a torquey beast. You don't have to mash the pedal to accelerate at a normal pace. I still have some regrets on not getting the C63 lol

How's the overall maintenance and reliability on your C63? What would you estimate your annual costs to be? I'm currently on the fence about getting a bigger, faster, automatic car. I've soon realized I miss not having to clutch in/out all the time. I think a manual transmission weekend/track car is great, but for my daily I'm just far too old/lazy/retarded to do it daily any more.

The reliability and maintenance on my C63 has been great (surprisingly). Just regular dealership service which is about $800 (depending on the type of service). I just need to top up engine oil in between services as most performance engines burn a little oil. I'm also getting old and lazy too so I really appreciate the automatic now haha. And gas milage does suck when you punch it. But my long term trip is averaging 16.5L/100km which is really good! I only occasionally gun it and I do 70/30 City/Highway driving on a daily.

[Cman333]

In contrast the E92 gives me 15.5L/100km driving like an asshole. Has good interior space. Amazing suspension. Super comfortable.

Whoa. I'm at like 18L/100km as per the reading. Weathers been bad so I've been being responsible. Otherwise I'm normally 18.x-19L which I don't think is accurate. I push MAX 300km a tank. I'm sure I could push a little more with the light running longer. lol

If 15.5L is you driving like an asshole..... what does that say about me? FeelsBadMan FeelsBadMan FeelsBadMan

[dark0821]

this could be just me... but I test drove a 507...the first thing I thought to myself when I sat in was.... why is the tach all the way to right and .... small...

with the big fat steering wheel, I was merging on the highway and I cant even see my revs... lol...

that is my 0.02 of my 5 min in a C63

I think everything has been spoken about all 3 vehicles... like everyone said... there is no bad car in the 3 choices, just the one that suits you more...

if i had to choose as a DD... I would go for an isf... I also think it is way more rare compare to C63 and M3s which is practically 20% of Aberdeen Parking Lot

[nsx042003]

i barely get past 300km on a tank on my e92, and about 340km on the ISF

[westopher]

Are the tank sizes the same?

[heleu]

i barely get past 300km on a tank on my e92, and about 340km on the ISF

Wow. I can't believe you guys DD these cars. I don't know why the gas tanks aren't larger. I would be so annoyed having to fill up every 3-4 days.

[westopher]

I only get like 380km per tank in the city in my e36 with just over half the power of these cars. If you aren't doing any highway driving, it takes you like 2 weeks to drive 300km in the city, since you can never get any faster the like 15 fucking km/h.
I'm sure if these guys were able to actually cruise it wouldn't be that ridiculous.

[Cman333]

i barely get past 300km on a tank on my e92, and about 340km on the ISF

Haha I'm glad I'm not the only one.

I do like 100% city driving. Multiple 5-10 min drives a day. Occasionally go to Van or BBY on the weekends. That's usually when my mileage improves.

I think my car has a 67L tank.

[nsx042003]

Are the tank sizes the same?

I think pretty much the same, both are about 64L capacity

I'm pretty much 100% city too, don't ever get on the highway much unless i head out on the 91.

The ISF has that nice engine note and the fastest torque converter automatic, and the sound it makes when you downshift getting ready for that exit ramp is pretty addicting. The M3 just feels more direct and nimble, turning is much sweeter in feel than the ISF

[spacemanrick]

I have my 6 speed manual 2016 M3 for 8 months and love the versatility of it and it's Jekyll and Hyde personality. I can drive casually and because of it's high torque at low RPM's I can easily drive in 5th or 6th gear around the city and usually get around 500 km on it's 60L gas tank. On the other hand if I want to have some fun I can press the pre-programmed M button and drive with more aggressive throttle, suspension, steering, and traction control settings. On the highway cruising at 100km per hour in 6th gear my M3 goes through 8L of gas per 100 km.

Insurance on my M3 is only $1,450 per year which is almost the same as it was on my 2013 BMW 335 xdrive. Backseat room is also great! I am 6'2" and with the driver seat set for me I can easily sit in the seat behind the driver's seat. I have had 5 passengers in my M3 probably more than 10 times and have never had any complaints. I wouldn't want to take 5 passengers on a 3 hour road trip but anything up to an hour should be fine.

[bcuzracecarz]

The sounds piped through the speakers take off at least 10 ltrs per hundo tho

:troll:

[tofu1413]

having owned two of those cars........ (M3 and C63)


- gas mileage- both are almost the same (300 ish km on a tank if strictly city) same tank size

- C63 being more comfortable than my Non EDC equipped early competition coupe M3

- P30 package is a must for the C63... 1 wheel tire fire for the non Performance package cars.

- Both have their fair share of expenses. Throttle body actuator on M3 ($1700 per bank), seatbelt actuator (the thing that hands you the seat belt, need to replace seat belt assy on an older car)

C63 - possible headbolt issues (usually warrantied by now on majority of the cars) , the damned comand Control knob (they all fail after warranty, ($500 ish part + install), the front brakes (2pc rotors and the brake job from MB was $5300........ fuck) and the C63 was the one that was heavier on the rear tires........


Both are entertaining in their own ways...... M3 being the more precise and rewarding car to rev up and the C63 being an over powered Four door sedan that is no different from a Muscle car.....


Drive both and do a longer drive and see which one you like better!

[knight604]

Rod bearings Rod bearings Rod bearings for e9x M3s (http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=892838)

"S65 has the second worst clearance to journal size ratio, and by far the worst RPM to Clearance ratio. It's pretty clear that for whatever reason, the S65 sticks out like a sore thumb in this list."

It is so bad there is a class action lawsuit on BMW for the S65. (http://http://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2015/bmw-m3-engine-failure-s65.shtml)

[BBMme]

C63 , love the raw 6.2 v8

[bananana]

- Both have their fair share of expenses. Throttle body actuator on M3 ($1700 per bank), seatbelt actuator (the thing that hands you the seat belt, need to replace seat belt assy on an older car)

How much is it to fix that seatbelt actuator? Mine still pops out but never hands me shit. I have to start driving so it retracts before I reach my arm all the way back to grab it. What a horrible design.

[EvoLove]

Rod bearings Rod bearings Rod bearings for e9x M3s (http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=892838)

"S65 has the second worst clearance to journal size ratio, and by far the worst RPM to Clearance ratio. It's pretty clear that for whatever reason, the S65 sticks out like a sore thumb in this list."

It is so bad there is a class action lawsuit on BMW for the S65. (http://http://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2015/bmw-m3-engine-failure-s65.shtml)

I believe they fixed that issue on 2011+ models

[twitchyzero]

do you live in BC? How is a brand new M3 insurance under $1500 annually?

[tofu1413]

do you live in BC? How is a brand new M3 insurance under $1500 annually?

$3500 annual for me @40% discount.


AMG was closer to $2800 annual @35% discount. Fml.

[knight604]

I believe they fixed that issue on 2011+ models


I think they made adjustments but did not actually fix it permanently

$3500 annual for me @40% discount.


AMG was closer to $2800 annual @35% discount. Fml.

I think he means brand spanking new 2015/2016

[tofu1413]

I think they made adjustments but did not actually fix it permanently



I think he means brand spanking new 2015/2016



Dont think so...... I also do know a newer M5 is quite steep as well..... :alone:

[underscore]

having owned two of those cars........ (M3 and C63)

<snip>

Drive both and do a longer drive and see which one you like better!

Sounds like they're both typical German money pits.

[bcuzracecarz]

Mines $2750 a year full discount, and yea they never fully solved the problem of the rod bearings, just changed materials in 2011 that slight improved wear but not much

[knight604]

Dont think so...... I also do know a newer M5 is quite steep as well..... :alone:

I think it was like 6.7g for new M4 and 7.5 for the new M6 without discount IIRC.

[tofu1413]

E92 M3 quote i remember was a hair over 7k with 0 discount :alone:


@underscore: nice things costs money. it ain't free lunch.

[belka]

I had an E92 M3 and now this spring bought a E90. I came back to the M3 after looking at the C63 and ISF, the other two just didn't do it for me. Plus the M3 is the only one that comes with a manual. Sure it feels a little under powered in the city but out of the two its by far the most nimble. Other two didn't feel sporty enough to me. The C63 tq was great but it felt dull, like driving a tank.

i barely get past 300km on a tank on my e92, and about 340km on the ISF

Even when I don't drive sensibly I still get close to 400km/tank in the city with a 55L fill up. Close to 500 highway. Change those plugs. ;)

[underscore]

@underscore: nice things costs money. it ain't free lunch.

You can get plenty of nice things that don't cost an arm and a leg to repair poor engineering, and can you really call it nice when you know a bunch of expensive things are going to fall apart?

[noclue]

Engine in E90/E92 M3 = Rod bearing issue = defect
Engine in C63 before 2012 = Headbolt issue = defect
Engine in Porsche 911/boxster/Cayman before 2009 = IMS issue = defect

All these have engine killing defects but people still love them, myself included! Shows how emotions trumps over being rational.

[spacemanrick]

$3500 annual for me @40% discount.


AMG was closer to $2800 annual @35% discount. Fml.

I have 25 years safe driving with the maximum discount for my 2016 M3. I also have my optional insurance with Canadian Direct Insurance and a multi vehicle discount with CDI. I think the quote I got for the same insurance through ICBC for my full insurance for my M3 was around $1,900.

[tofu1413]

You can get plenty of nice things that don't cost an arm and a leg to repair poor engineering, and can you really call it nice when you know a bunch of expensive things are going to fall apart?

any machinery falls apart regardless.

[westopher]

You can get plenty of nice things that don't cost an arm and a leg to repair poor engineering, and can you really call it nice when you know a bunch of expensive things are going to fall apart?
Lots of the best things in life bring you tons of joy, but also cause some stress in the process.
A great night out with your friends ends up with a hangover the next day.
Delicious spicy foods give you the shits.
Chasing success in your career means making sacrifices.
You gotta decide for yourself if the juice is worth the squeeze. Its different for everyone. Some of the greatest joys in my life have caused a ton of pain to enjoy them. A car (thats a hobby) is no different.

[tofu1413]

Lots of the best things in life bring you tons of joy, but also cause some stress in the process.
A great night out with your friends ends up with a hangover the next day.
Delicious spicy foods give you the shits.
Chasing success in your career means making sacrifices.
You gotta decide for yourself if the juice is worth the squeeze. Its different for everyone. Some of the greatest joys in my life have caused a ton of pain to enjoy them. A car (thats a hobby) is no different.



oh man. dont get me started on curries and chipotle. :alone::alone:

[GS8]

You can get plenty of nice things that don't cost an arm and a leg to repair poor engineering, and can you really call it nice when you know a bunch of expensive things are going to fall apart?

I read this in a Scotty Kilmer voice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV9rJwEOCus


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGE6roEThig