[Traum]

Bateman: Vision Vancouver?s natural-gas ban costly for residents | The Province (http://theprovince.com/opinion/jordan-bateman-vision-vancouvers-natural-gas-ban-will-cost-residents-thousands-of-dollars)

Gregor Robertson’s green obsession should be a grave concern for Vancouver taxpayers trying to make ends meet.

Lost in the hubbub over housing prices in the Lower Mainland this summer was the Vision-dominated city council rubber stamping its Renewable City Strategy, committing Vancouver to eliminating natural gas within city limits by 2050. Robertson wants a 70-per-cent cut in natural gas use by 2020, and 90 per cent gone within 10 years.

This will cost individual residents thousands of dollars — and was approved by Robertson and his council without any thought to the affordability crisis in Vancouver. This plan will make it more expensive for people to heat their homes and to buy things from businesses in Vancouver, and it means higher taxes to cover rising costs for hospitals, schools and buses.

Today, 56 per cent of all energy used by homes in Vancouver comes from natural gas, mainly to heat rooms and water. FortisBC has more than 108,000 customers in Vancouver – including homes, condo buildings, medical centres, restaurants and schools.

There are only two energy alternatives that could realistically replace natural gas — a district energy system run by the city, or electricity. Both are roughly the same price. Even with the news that FortisBC is hiking its natural gas price by $82 per year for the average residential customer, natural gas is still far cheaper than these alternatives.


Based on BC Hydro and FortisBC rates and average energy usage, a single-family home could see a $1,400 per year rise in energy bills if it moved from natural gas to electricity — and that’s on top of the up-front cost (likely thousands of dollars more) to convert or replace water heaters and furnaces.

It gets worse. In commercial, institutional and industrial buildings, 37 per cent of energy comes from natural gas. That means higher prices for customers, who will have to pay more to help business and restaurant owners foot the bill for the conversion and higher ongoing energy costs.

Hospitals are huge users of natural gas, not just to heat their buildings, but to sterilize equipment. A mid-sized hospital saves as much as $600,000 per year by using natural gas. Force them to use electricity, and more tax dollars will be needed to fund them.

More than a hundred schools use natural gas in Vancouver. The Vancouver School Board could need another $3.6 million per year for higher electricity costs.

Vision Vancouver is coming after vehicles, too. TransLink has been buying natural gas-powered buses for a few years, but Robertson’s plan may soon force them to buy fuel-cell buses — at more than twice the price. You can bet TransLink will be asking taxpayers for more money to cover it.

Robertson and his green gang know all this — and they don’t care. “The discovery in North America of large quantities of shale gas has now caused the price to crash, and this low cost is expected for years to come. What is not included in this price are the health and environmental damages caused by climate impacts from burning large amounts of natural gas,” their strategy says.

That will come as a surprise to taxpayers who have been shelling out for carbon tax on their natural gas bills for nearly a decade. And all this money will be spent by Vancouver residents to address less than 2.5 of the 732 megatonnes of greenhouse gas emissions released in Canada annually — one-third of one per cent (and Canada’s emissions are only 1.6 per cent of world emissions).

Vancouver taxpayers should demand city hall scrap the plan to outlaw natural gas. And if Robertson refuses, the provincial government should step in and remind Vision of the need to cut the cost burden on Vancouver residents.

Otherwise, the greenest thing about Robertson’s Vancouver will continue to be the stacks of money needed to live there.

[Traum]

I dunno how else to put it, but I fxxking hate Moonbeam's guts. :yuno:

My main takeaways from this idiocy is:

- 70% reduction in natural gas use by 2020 -- that's right -- in 3+ years
- 90% reduction in 10 years
- upfront conversion costs from gas systems will be in the thousands for typical home owners
- on-going costs on energy bill will be $1400 higher per year

I dunno about anyone else, but I definitely can't cough up "several thousands" all of a sudden in 3 short years, never mind the higher on-going costs afterwards...

Can we fxxking kick this guy out of City Hall already?

[Manic!]

LOL Vancouver.

[6o4__boi]

lol thing is, young Vancouverites don't have the balls to go out there and vote

inb4 50% turnout and Moonbeam is in for another term

iirc, last municipal election it was around ~40% - ~55% (?) turnout and majority were seniors who shudder and faint at the mention of change.

[Traum]

iirc, last municipal election it was around ~40% - ~55% (?) turnout and majority were seniors who shudder and faint at the mention of change.
And now those seniors are getting raped in the a$$. If they are on any sort of fixed income, I dunno how they're gonna be able to afford the conversion costs nor the higher on-going energy costs.

IMO, the situation is still not too late. Just because the strategic plan is passed doesn't mean it will get enacted yet. If there is enough backlash from the public, no elected politician will dare to press through.

Time to write up some angry letters and diu9 this fxxking idiot and his lackeys.

[murd0c]

so does he expect all restaurant's to switch their stoves from NG to electric as well? This guy is a fucken nut case and I'm so happy I don't live in Vancouver and got out of the GVRD two weeks ago as well.

[GLOW]

*sigh*
oh well...i did my part voting NPA and trying to out as many vision parksboard members as possible

i wonder how they're going to police this in to effect. mandate by a certain date to retrofit your home or have the gas cut straight up?

maybe we can heat our homes but burning furniture, books, and newspapers like in the movies

[Great68]

LOL Vancouver.

Hey Hey now, It's the game of life!

[twitchyzero]

heating the home is overrated anyways
i'll just wear my Patagonia jacket that has ethically-plucked feathers
:troll:

[Nabatron]

70% reduction in natural gas in 3 years this guy is fucking retarded....I swear people in power just come up with the most unrealistic shit possible.

I see it everyday with my upper management at work. My boss has a meeting with his boss, boss asks him how are we going to get from some odd millions to some odd more millions? My boss says well in 3 years we will want to go from making 60mill a year to over 100mill...I sit there with all other managers in fucking disgust and lol. We ask how the fuck are we going to do that? Boss says don't worry about the product you are selling just sell yourself and they will buy. This is his fucking plan....Im guessing moonbeam and my boss went to the same idiot school of business...

sorry for the rant but just had to vent at my frustrations with people in power who shouldn't be and get rewarded for stupidity...end rant!

[Nabatron]

heating the home is overrated anyways
i'll just wear my Patagonia jacket that has ethically-plucked feathers
:troll:

maybe you can ask Trudeau for one of those free Roots jackets they were giving to those refugees...I mean if they are free might as well oh yeah there not its coming out of your tax dollars lol

[Gnomes]

He should get thorium as a nuclear power source up at full capacity before eliminating NG if he really wants green

[Hondaracer]

great.. just as i'm planning all my reno's around gas appliances in order to avoid installing a 200w service panel...

[flagella]

We have a fucking moron here, who is loaded and made shit ton of money from real estate making policies. He clearly doesn't give a fuck about affordability. To him, it's all about the image of being a renewable city.

[Jmac]

Electricity for heating/sterilization :lawl:

Heat pumps are good for some stuff, but you can only do so much with 50°C water and the life-cycles are short.

If we had electric boilers at the hospital, it would cost us (taxpayers) a fortune.

[Nlkko]

Is there not another politician that can beat this tree-hugging cunt?

[dbaz]

my guess is he probably has a company or stock in one that specializes in electric appliances, or for retrofitting from gas to electric.

[underscore]

I might be wrong, but isn't electric heat horrifically inefficient compared to gas? I'm not sure what that translates to when you consider the whole loop (from where it's generated til it heats your water/house) but I have a hard time believing this whole thing is "green" when thousands of people will have to scrap perfectly good stoves, water tanks and heaters, then buy brand new ones that wouldn't have otherwise been built. Then on top of that I imagine the electric service for the entire city will have to be overhauled as I doubt whatever is currently in place has been built with enough of a buffer to handle swapping every btu currently being generated by gas to electric. Which means a lot of people and machines working, a lot of traffic delays and detours causing idling cars, etc.

[Jmac]

I might be wrong, but isn't electric heat horrifically inefficient compared to gas? I'm not sure what that translates to when you consider the whole loop (from where it's generated til it heats your water/house) but I have a hard time believing this whole thing is "green" when thousands of people will have to scrap perfectly good stoves, water tanks and heaters, then buy brand new ones that wouldn't have otherwise been built. Then on top of that I imagine the electric service for the entire city will have to be overhauled as I doubt whatever is currently in place has been built with enough of a buffer to handle swapping every btu currently being generated by gas to electric. Which means a lot of people and machines working, a lot of traffic delays and detours causing idling cars, etc.
Unless it has some sort of heat recovery (i.e. geothermal, heat recovery coils in exhaust ducting, etc.) to increase your CoP, it's substantially less efficient than natural gas, yes.

Heat pumps generally have a maximum condenser water output somewhere between 50°C and 60°C, so you're limited in terms of what you can do unless your existing infrastructure was designed for those temperatures.

The other issue with running your heat pumps at high temperatures is that it increases the head pressure of your compressors, which decreases efficiency and lifespan.

If you have, for example, a building in which you have the majority of your space heating done by air handling units and reheat coils designed for 80°C water and want to retrofit your building to use 50°C supplied from a heat pump with exhaust heat recovery, you'd have to add additional coils into the supply duct work and air handling units, which means more piping and larger pumps.

You'd need heat recovery coils in the exhaust system to recover heat. If you use water in those coils, you can get down to about 5°C or you can use a glycol mixture, which is less efficient, to drop your evaporator water below 0°C.

Those extra coils increase resistance (decrease efficiency) in the duct work and increase duct pressure, so you'll have to run your fans at a higher rate (consuming more electricity) and may have to upgrade your duct work if the existing duct work can't handle the increased static pressure.

[Traum]

I suspect I am being naive, but if you think this is a totally dumba$$ plan, I urge you to write to your local politician -- including but not limited to Moonbeam -- to tell him in his face how stupid this plan is. With enough noise, the plan can eventually get scrapped. But if we don't make noise, the crooks in the office will think everything is A-OK.

[GLOW]

great.. just as i'm planning all my reno's around gas appliances in order to avoid installing a 200w service panel...

you mean 200 Amp? Kappa :troll:

70% reduction in natural gas in 3 years this guy is fucking retarded....I swear people in power just come up with the most unrealistic shit possible.


hey, that's his strategy...remember his brilliant plan/promise to abolish homeless by 2015 amirite gais???

i don't mind electric heating...but gas is cheap... and who is going to change the existing systems of their homes just cuz? they gonna do it for free? :lol

[tiger_handheld]

vancouver is like a high end hooker...

you need to pay to live(play)... and it aint cheap.

[highfive]

We have a fucking moron here, who is loaded and made shit ton of money from real estate making policies. He clearly doesn't give a fuck about affordability. To him, it's all about the image of being a renewable city.

I thought he made money from happy planet?

[carisear]

I suspect I am being naive, but if you think this is a totally dumba$$ plan, I urge you to write to your local politician -- including but not limited to Moonbeam -- to tell him in his face how stupid this plan is. With enough noise, the plan can eventually get scrapped. But if we don't make noise, the crooks in the office will think everything is A-OK.

Robertson has made it completely clear that he doesn't really care about any public consultation, nor complaints.

I've written complaints to city hall, and just received a form letter that didn't even state that they would take my issue into consideration; rather, that their plan was carefully thought out.

Unfortunately for us all, you are being naïve =(

[twitchyzero]

City of Vancouver clarifies its position on natural gas in new buildings - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-natural-gas-ban-2050-1.3775085)

having a timpo moment...so it's not a ban for existing buildings?
only a plan to eliminate it in new builds?

[ziggyx]

The problem with today's world is that there is the image of being green and actually being green.... I'm sure there are people who are actually trying to be green but there are probably more idiots who just have the "image or idea" of being green.

A quick example I can think off the top of my head is buying an electric car. The amount of emissions created to build the car, keep the car charged (if you're running off a fossil fueled energy grid), scrapping the car, the batteries which need to be built and properly exposed of, etc. the list goes on... Not to mention some people will probably say "oh man my electric car is kinda old, time to get a new one or it's not the latest model" :seriously:

People need to understand that you need to look at the overall footprint and I doubt Robertson did any actual consultation from the sounds of it.

[SkinnyPupp]

I know everyone is mad, and this is a very aggressive bill if it actually reads out the way the headlines put it.

But the fact is, we HAVE to stop relying on fossil fuels. Like we LITERALLY HAVE TO STOP NOW. If we don't, the planet will barely be habitable to future generations. And not 1000 years from now - more like 100 years.

Only if drastic measures - like this bill - are taken, will we be able to slow down (not stop, too late for that) the earth turning into an unlivable hell hole. And EVERYONE has to do this, not just Vancouver, not just Canada... Everyone.

I know it's not convenient. That doesn't matter, it's too late for things to be convenient.

[SkinnyPupp]

Also don't believe the bullshit about electric cars being "just as bad for the environment" as combustion engines. I don't even know why people believe that line.

Even if you live somewhere that burns coal for electricity, the amount it takes to go the same distance in an electric car is miniscule compared to combustion engines.

And it's not like these batteries are just being thrown in the dump once they're no longer usable in these cars. They can be recycled many times over - even if not useful in a car, they can be useful elsewhere. I think eventually practically every house will have batteries taken from old electric cars.

[stewie]

Moonbeam's a fucking twat

Seems like all he want's is his name everywhere and to be remembered since this will probably be on the radio all over the place in other provinces and maybe even a few states.

[Great68]

The one nice thing about these crazy initiatives is that the next mayor can just squash them.

[Hondaracer]

I'd have a lot less of a problem with "going green" if we didn't pander to every single special interest group against renewable and "clean" resources.

The site C dam, a 30 year project in argubely the cleanest form of renewable energy takes 30 fucking years to get through. Then once construction starts you let special interest groups, native bands who don't even have a claim to the land, yuppies, etc. protest and prolong the construction

If we don't want to build dams then what should we build? We don't want to build pipelines to sell our fossil fuels so in turn you can't turn a profit to provide funds for "carbon offsets"

Nuclear?

No one knows wtf they want. All these Kyoto accords and climate action plans seemingly do nothing. Major industrial centers pump more and more shit out every year as he "clean" countries demand for consumer goods continues to rise.

Hope your kids kids have enough dough for a rocket ride to the next planet

[Mr.HappySilp]

I know everyone is mad, and this is a very aggressive bill if it actually reads out the way the headlines put it.

But the fact is, we HAVE to stop relying on fossil fuels. Like we LITERALLY HAVE TO STOP NOW. If we don't, the planet will barely be habitable to future generations. And not 1000 years from now - more like 100 years.

Only if drastic measures - like this bill - are taken, will we be able to slow down (not stop, too late for that) the earth turning into an unlivable hell hole. And EVERYONE has to do this, not just Vancouver, not just Canada... Everyone.

I know it's not convenient. That doesn't matter, it's too late for things to be convenient.

Right so how about those country that pollute the worse starts cleaning about their country first. Also if the gov want people to move away be more clean energy then maybe they should pay for the bill then. Because you know everyone can suddenly just comes up with thousand of dollars out of thin air.

[SkinnyPupp]

Right so how about those country that pollute the worse starts cleaning about their country first.

That's a good question... Who knows, what can you do to make these countries stop destroying the planet? Maybe it'll come down to trade embargoes or something? Either way the world is fucked if nothing is done.

[yray]

^you better do your part of "no natural gas" by not using taxis and mini bus :troll:

I can see a class action lawsuit :lol if vancouver decides to go ahead.

[sonick]

70% reduction in natural gas in 3 years this guy is fucking retarded....I swear people in power just come up with the most unrealistic shit possible.

I see it everyday with my upper management at work. My boss has a meeting with his boss, boss asks him how are we going to get from some odd millions to some odd more millions? My boss says well in 3 years we will want to go from making 60mill a year to over 100mill...I sit there with all other managers in fucking disgust and lol. We ask how the fuck are we going to do that? Boss says don't worry about the product you are selling just sell yourself and they will buy. This is his fucking plan....Im guessing moonbeam and my boss went to the same idiot school of business...

sorry for the rant but just had to vent at my frustrations with people in power who shouldn't be and get rewarded for stupidity...end rant!

Goals like these are set exceptionally high, so that people have a higher target to aim for. Better to set an absurd goal of 70% reduction and fail by only hitting a 30% reduction, than to set a realistic goal of 20% and succeed.

[SkinnyPupp]

^you better do your part of "no natural gas" by not using taxis and mini bus :troll:

I can see a class action lawsuit :lol if vancouver decides to go ahead.
If they start replacing them with electric vehicles then absolutely I will!

I look forward to the day where single passenger cars are replaced by self driving shared fleets. Aside from the environment (which honestly I don't care that much about since it's fucked no matter what I do), having an automated car pick me up instead of relying on some lazy idiot minibus driver driving right by because he's too lazy to stop for one person and would rather just fill up at the next busy stop, would be a huge life improvement.

[MG1]

Well, I'm doing my part. I'm in an electric drive vehicle as we speak. Funny thing is, I notice a lot more pollutin cars now. Like this older modded out Porsche I followed the other day. Loud as hell and spewing shit out its tailpipes. Hilarious, as I just smoked him (pun intended) off the line with no sound at all. He wasn't a happy camper. All noise, no go.

I love it when drivers go into an empty lane next to me only to get their asses handed to them. Acceleration on EV vehicles are amazing. I go to the 7 Eleven on Knight that has a Petro Canada gas station on the premises and I chuckle a little each time I see someone spending close to 75 bucks per fill.

[6o4__boi]

That's a good question... Who knows, what can you do to make these countries stop destroying the planet? Maybe it'll come down to trade embargoes or something? Either way the world is fucked if nothing is done.

Stop reproducing faster than vermins for one.

[Hondaracer]

Well, I'm doing my part. I'm in an electric drive vehicle as we speak. Funny thing is, I notice a lot more pollutin cars now. Like this older modded out Porsche I followed the other day. Loud as hell and spewing shit out its tailpipes. Hilarious, as I just smoked him (pun intended) off the line with no sound at all. He wasn't a happy camper. All noise, no go.

I love it when drivers go into an empty lane next to me only to get their asses handed to them. Acceleration on EV vehicles are amazing. I go to the 7 Eleven on Knight that has a Petro Canada gas station on the premises and I chuckle a little each time I see someone spending close to 75 bucks per fill.

There's no way there's any where close to the polluting vehicles there were in he 90's early 2000's

Everyone now a days seemingly has a car that is under 5-6 years old. Air care and gas prices seemingly took care of all the gas guzzling polluters most of us grew up driving

[Traum]

There's no way there's any where close to the polluting vehicles there were in he 90's early 2000's

Everyone now a days seemingly has a car that is under 5-6 years old. Air care and gas prices seemingly took care of all the gas guzzling polluters most of us grew up driving
Given the number and frequency of gray smoke spewing vehicles I come across on the road, I am not at all convinced that most of the dirty polluters have been taken out of service. Tour buses and VW TDI cars, in particular, are frequently the worse mobile smoke puffers I see.

I would also add that when someone does a cat delete on their cars, that also turns the car into a gross polluter.

[Bouncing Bettys]

The rest of the province, beyond the GVRD, is full of Coal Rollers who use their lifted trucks to spew black smoke at anyone environmentally-minded and intentionally park in front of charging stations to prevent access. How do you even attempt to convince them?

[SkunkWorks]

The rest of the province, beyond the GVRD, is full of Coal Rollers who use their lifted trucks to spew black smoke at anyone environmentally-minded and intentionally park in front of charging stations to prevent access. How do you even attempt to convince them?

By keeping your head in the sand towards the bigger issues. Obviously.

[melloman]

Saw this on the news and heard it on the radio yesterday.
Minute I got home and put on the 11 o'clock news, showed the gf and said "Property taxes, and now this, is why we will NEVER live in the city of Vancouver.

Go Burnaby! :toot:

Also, during that news report, Moonbeam went on to say "how are we going to combat rising sea levels?" Meaning this fucktwat is going to start planning on combating rising tides too, get ready to get anally-butt raped Vancouver residents, cuz raising those sea walls AINT GONNA BE CHEAP.

[Ch28]

The one nice thing about these crazy initiatives is that the next mayor can just squash them.

Except the problem is that nobody in Vancouver actually goes to vote him out.

[Nlkko]

I know everyone is mad, and this is a very aggressive bill if it actually reads out the way the headlines put it.

But the fact is, we HAVE to stop relying on fossil fuels. Like we LITERALLY HAVE TO STOP NOW. If we don't, the planet will barely be habitable to future generations. And not 1000 years from now - more like 100 years.

Only if drastic measures - like this bill - are taken, will we be able to slow down (not stop, too late for that) the earth turning into an unlivable hell hole. And EVERYONE has to do this, not just Vancouver, not just Canada... Everyone.

I know it's not convenient. That doesn't matter, it's too late for things to be convenient.

While I understand and 100% support environmental friendly behavior changes such as offering incentive to electric vehicle users and even establishing more bike route, this natural gas bill is wrong on so many levels. It is not behavior change. It just makes one alternative impossible to get (natural gas heating for example) and forcing existing owners to spend more to change to electric alternative. Not to mention electric heating is extremely inefficient and thus costly. You can sport an argument for EV vehicles as the way they generate energy are super efficient compare to ICE vehicles.

They should make electric baseboard heating cheaper, or find a reasonable alternative. Not a fuck you, fuck that and fuck off bill.

[6o4__boi]

Not a fuck you, fuck that and fuck off bill.

:lawl:
That's the BC Special

[underscore]

The rest of the province, beyond the GVRD, is full of Coal Rollers who use their lifted trucks to spew black smoke at anyone environmentally-minded and intentionally park in front of charging stations to prevent access. How do you even attempt to convince them?

FailFish have you ever left the GVRD?

Also don't believe the bullshit about electric cars being "just as bad for the environment" as combustion engines. I don't even know why people believe that line.

Are you aware of the process required to acquire the materials and actually make the batteries? Granted they are getting better at it, but it's still a dirty business.

[SkinnyPupp]

While I understand and 100% support environmental friendly behavior changes such as offering incentive to electric vehicle users and even establishing more bike route, this natural gas bill is wrong on so many levels. It is not behavior change. It just makes one alternative impossible to get (natural gas heating for example) and forcing existing owners to spend more to change to electric alternative. Not to mention electric heating is extremely inefficient and thus costly. You can sport an argument for EV vehicles as the way they generate energy are super efficient compare to ICE vehicles.

They should make electric baseboard heating cheaper, or find a reasonable alternative. Not a fuck you, fuck that and fuck off bill.
I get it, this is the most aggressive bill I've seen in while. Especially since it's directly to regular citizens, not corporations.

I'm just saying that by the time the target year is reached, people should already be thinking that it's insane to burn gas for heat, and opt for any other option. Maybe we will, who knows.

But I can see that being forced into it with no incentives makes people mad, based on the reaction to this thread and my post LUL

[Manic!]

I get it, this is the most aggressive bill I've seen in while. Especially since it's directly to regular citizens, not corporations.

I'm just saying that by the time the target year is reached, people should already be thinking that it's insane to burn gas for heat, and opt for any other option. Maybe we will, who knows.

But I can see that being forced into it with no incentives makes people mad, based on the reaction to this thread and my post LUL

We should just go back to burning wood.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Well, I'm doing my part. I'm in an electric drive vehicle as we speak. Funny thing is, I notice a lot more pollutin cars now. Like this older modded out Porsche I followed the other day. Loud as hell and spewing shit out its tailpipes. Hilarious, as I just smoked him (pun intended) off the line with no sound at all. He wasn't a happy camper. All noise, no go.

I love it when drivers go into an empty lane next to me only to get their asses handed to them. Acceleration on EV vehicles are amazing. I go to the 7 Eleven on Knight that has a Petro Canada gas station on the premises and I chuckle a little each time I see someone spending close to 75 bucks per fill.

Have you look at the process of how electric is produce VS regular car. The process to produce an electric vehicle could cause more pollution than a regular so you aren't doing the planet much for a favor. What about the charging stations do they need more pollution when building them VS gas station. How about when electric vehicle when they need their battery replace how's the recyeling process? Will the battery cause more harm?

I think these are all questions needs to be answer first before everyone said electric car are better for our planet and is clean energy.

[meme405]

Stop reproducing faster than vermins for one.

https://youtu.be/YspAlwj3YsE?t=643

[Nlkko]

Have you look at the process of how electric is produce VS regular car. The process to produce an electric vehicle could cause more pollution than a regular so you aren't doing the planet much for a favor. What about the charging stations do they need more pollution when building them VS gas station. How about when electric vehicle when they need their battery replace how's the recyeling process? Will the battery cause more harm?

I think these are all questions needs to be answer first before everyone said electric car are better for our planet and is clean energy.

Yeah this shit has been proven many times over a long time ago. You can google it up. It came down to the extreme effieciency and economy of scale of the way the grid generate and deliver power compare to the puny engine of an ICE car. Skinny actually posted it a few posts back. Batteries are always recycled.

[sdubfid]

Natural gas may be clean burning when it gets to the end user but the top polluters in the province are gas plants that remove the nasties. Largest expense in most oil production facilities is clean burning natural gas. So we are using clean burning energy to extract dirty burning energy.

This is equivalent to making a car run on poo instead of apples. Rather than just run on apples humans have to eat the apples and digest them to poo, rather than just making the car run on apples in the first place.

2016 Prius now has 1500lb towing capacity