[thumper]

ICBC admits 42 per cent in rate hikes possible for basic auto insurance | Vancouver Sun (http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/icbc-admits-42-per-cent-in-rate-hikes-possible-for-basic-auto-insurance)

http://www.news1130.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/sites/9/2016/11/23/todd-stone.jpg

VICTORIA – The Insurance Corporation of BC has admitted steep rate hikes for basic auto insurance, compounding to more than 42 per cent, are possible in the next five years if it can’t cut costs and claims.

The disclosure prompted the government to announce Wednesday it would no longer insure high-end luxury vehicles, to reduce the number of costly repairs and relieve pressure on basic rates for ordinary car owners.

ICBC said it could hypothetically have to raise rates 6.4 per cent in 2017, 7.9 per cent in 2018, 9.4 per cent in 2019 and 7.9 per cent in 2020 — all rates that exceed a 4.9 per cent cap that Premier Christy Clark has urged the Crown corporation to hold.

That’s in addition to a 4.9 per cent rate increase for basic auto insurance the corporation wants this year. Transportation Minister Todd Stone called the hypotheticals an “extreme worst case hypothetical situation.”

“I want to reassure the public that these are extreme projections that do not consider the actions the BC government and ICBC are taking to reduce the pressure on rates,” he said.


Stone said one of the first steps will be that ICBC will refuse to insure luxury high-end vehicles worth more than $150,000, because costly repairs to those vehicles are driving up basic rate costs.

Legislation will be passed forcing those car owners to get private insurance, Stone said. Until then, as an interim measure, luxury car owners will have to pay double their ordinary basic insurance and ensure their premiums will fully cover the cost of any repairs.

Stone said the luxury vehicles are six times more costly to fix in a crash than ordinary vehicles, and 30 per cent more high-end cars are on the road in the past three years. Greater Vancouver has the largest concentration of the high-end luxury cars in North America.

http://wpmedia.vancouversun.com/2016/11/screen-shot-2016-11-23-at-2-21-22-pm.png

ICBC rate forecastsThe increases would represent a rate increase of 31.6 per cent, which is compounded annually to represent 42.2 per cent over five years.

The numbers are contained in a response to the BC Utilities Commission that ICBC had tried to keep secret, out of fear the public would take the figures “out of context.” It lost that fight and released the information Wednesday.

ICBC also painted two other hypothetical scenarios, in which it successfully reduces claims costs and improves investment returns. In that case, rates could increase 5.3 per cent in 2017, and then drop to 4.1 per cent annually for 2018, 2019, and 2020.

A more ambitious scenario also paints the possibility of rates only increasing 3.4 per cent in 2017, 1.9 per cent in 2018, 2.2 per cent in 2019 and 2.6 per cent in 2020.

rshaw@postmedia.com

twitter.com/robshaw_vansun

[JqC]

Too much money - spend on high end cars and exotics.
Can't drive worth shit.

Goddamn Clais. Now all our rates are going up.

[6o4__boi]

i felt a sudden prickling sensation in my wallet area after reading this


Legislation will be passed forcing those car owners to get private insurance, Stone said. Until then, as an interim measure, luxury car owners will have to pay double their ordinary basic insurance and ensure their premiums will fully cover the cost of any repairs.

Stone said the luxury vehicles are six times more costly to fix in a crash than ordinary vehicles, and 30 per cent more high-end cars are on the road in the past three years. Greater Vancouver has the largest concentration of the high-end luxury cars in North America.

Is my my math out of line to think that fuck that...if it costs six times more to fix a luxury vehicle, then their basic insurance should cost six times as much.
If you can afford a luxury vehicle, you should be able to afford sextuple the insurance that us peasants have to pay.

[Mikoyan]

News1130 is reporting Commercial Vehicles are exempt from the 150k cap. I wondering if getting a commercial tag would allow you to be insured. If it does, that's a giant loophole even a clai could drive through cleanly.

[freakshow]

I don't understand. If high end vehicles cost more to fix, why don't you just charge more to insure them? That's exactly what a private company will do..

[Urrtoast]

They should increase the rate to new drivers and anyone with out 10years safe driving.
If the person is driving under a L or N they should charge them 50 percent more, If the car or truck there driving is valued over 20k they also should pay 50 percent more.
Lets give the safe drivers that have been driving for 8-10 yrs with not issues a discount.
Just think how much revenue Richmond would give to icbc....
:lawl:

IMHO
If you fail this post you are a bad driver and fall into the you should have a surcharge applied to your insurance.Or you live in Richmond..lol

[Edison_Chen]

News1130 is reporting Commercial Vehicles are exempt from the 150k cap. I wondering if getting a commercial tag would allow you to be insured. If it does, that's a giant loophole even a clai could drive through cleanly.

I think if its commercial vehicles, it is probably the big semi trucks or the big dump trucks or the big logging trucks.

[pastarocket]

ICBC should raise insurance rates for owners of high end cars in the interim by more than just double.

There's gotta be a way to make a scale of insurance fee brackets a price of a car falls into so that than an owner of a Ferrari, Lambo pays much more in insurance than somebody who drives a Hyundai.

-sort of like a mainlander insurance premium. LUL

Add an insurance premium for N drivers too. :troll:

[Urrtoast]

ICBC should raise insurance rates for owners of high end cars in the interim by more than just double.

There's gotta be a way to make a scale of insurance fee brackets a price of a car falls into so that than an owner of a Ferrari, Lambo pays much more in insurance than somebody who drives a Hyundai.

-sort of like a mainlander insurance premium. LUL

Add an insurance premium for N drivers too. :troll:

But someone in the 40-70s that's been a safe driver for 10plus years should not have to pay a premium.
Unlike the 16-29 year olds driving the Ferrari , Lambos, McLaren etc that lack driving experience and responsibility or there daddy bought it for them.

[radioman]

I think ICBC needs new actuaries.

[Hondaracer]

This shit is honestly insane.. like we need some fucking reform ASAP

[Traum]

IMO, the policy announced today could mark a watershed moment in the province's auto insurance industry. As a matter of fact, I can potentially see this as the first step towards converting our public insurance system to a private one, and I do not like that.

With ICBC dropping luxury car customers, the private insurance industry will be asked to pick them up. But what can happen is -- and if I were a private insurance company, I would totally do this -- for one reason or another, the private industry might initially offer unsustainably low rates. It could be a marketing ploy, it could be due to a lack of accurate insurance data, etc. Whatever the reasons might be, if private insurance offers this unsustainably low rate, shortsighted idiots might start crying foul and claim that our current public auto insurance system needs to be scrapped because it is too expensive. With enough outcry, the province gives in, and then we shift to a private system.

Now that everyone is sucked into the private insurance game, those companies can start raping our a$$es and implement dramatic rate hikes.

We see this time and again in all kinds of businesses / marketing promotions. The Shaw 150Mbps plan is $50/month in Year 1, and $80 in Year 2, and then goes back to $135 in Year 3+. My old Shaw 25 plan might be $60/month right now, and if I think that signing up for the new 150 plan will save me $10/month, I am obviously sorely mistaken. But while many can see the longer term total cost increase in this Shaw scenario, very few can foresee a similar thing happening if we were to switch from our public auto insurance system to a private one.

[Hondaracer]

Raping our Asses? I pay $1650 a year for a 16 year old truck with 0 coverage outside of 3M liability..

thats with 44% discount, 10 years safe driving, yadayadayada

my ass is feeling pretty sore as is with ICBC..

[dabbin]

IMO, the policy announced today could mark a watershed moment in the province's auto insurance industry. As a matter of fact, I can potentially see this as the first step towards converting our public insurance system to a private one, and I do not like that.

With ICBC dropping luxury car customers, the private insurance industry will be asked to pick them up. But what can happen is -- and if I were a private insurance company, I would totally do this -- for one reason or another, the private industry might initially offer unsustainably low rates. It could be a marketing ploy, it could be due to a lack of accurate insurance data, etc. Whatever the reasons might be, if private insurance offers this unsustainably low rate, shortsighted idiots might start crying foul and claim that our current public auto insurance system needs to be scrapped because it is too expensive. With enough outcry, the province gives in, and then we shift to a private system.

Now that everyone is sucked into the private insurance game, those companies can start raping our a$$es and implement dramatic rate hikes.


No.

ICBC will still insure them for liability, as is required by law.

They will drop the ability to get comprehensive and collision for them, which are the big killers on their costs. There already exists private insurance for this.

Now if they get into an at fault accident in their S class, ICBC will fix the other car, and likely pay out the other driver for medical / pain & suffering (as they still do now.) and their liability rate increases (claim rated scale), BUT, ICBC won't fix the S class, or pay $200k to write it off (unless some poor shmuck runs into one and is at fault, his insurance would cover it, regardless of the car he hit). The repair to the "s class" would be done through a 3rd party private insurance claim and will mean STUPIDLY expensive future insurance for the exotics/luxury driver with, or no comprehensive or collision coverage at all for their 6 figure car.

[flagella]

They should increase the rate to new drivers and anyone with out 10years safe driving.
If the person is driving under a L or N they should charge them 50 percent more, If the car or truck there driving is valued over 20k they also should pay 50 percent more.
Lets give the safe drivers that have been driving for 8-10 yrs with not issues a discount.
Just think how much revenue Richmond would give to icbc....
:lawl:

IMHO
If you fail this post you are a bad driver and fall into the you should have a surcharge applied to your insurance.Or you live in Richmond..lol

I fall into neither category and I think your comment is retarded.

[Traum]

Is that your reading of today's announcement, dabbin? Cuz as I read up on the various news report for it, my interpretation is quite different from yours, and that was how I came to my concerns above. From the way I am reading the press announcement, ICBC is entirely getting out of the insurance game for $150k+ vehicles. No optional insurance. No basic coverage. No nothing. They are letting the private sector handle that, and they are preparing the legislations for it.

So if they really get out of the basic insurance game for the $150k cars, that would be a game changer. But if they continue to offer basic liability insurance to them, then it seems like a pretty dumb plan. They should have just up the rates for those $150k+ cars to the point where they (ICBC) can break even, or maybe even make some profit. If the province is only dropping the optional insurance for those $150k+ cars, it is pretty much handing the potential cash cow over to the private insurance sector.

[Mr.Money]

there has to be another public insurance company to under cut and fuck ICBC out of the car game....why is there only One Company to get your car on the road?

[Djiban]

They should have different pools for new, retarded and excellent drivers when setting up the rates.

Is it because they don't adapt with change well? With more rich immigrants coming into the province in the last few years and buying exotic/expensive cars, combined with poor driving skills (especially new drivers with exotics), of course there's a higher probability of accidents.

[whitev70r]

MUST let other insurance companies into the game. This is INSANE!

[Traum]

there has to be another public insurance company to under cut and fuck ICBC out of the car game....why is there only One Company to get your car on the road?
You do realize what you're saying, right? Why would there be 2 public insurance companies competing against and trying to undercut each other? The very definition of public insurance means the corporation will be backed by the provincial government, and it just makes no sense that 2 separate government branches will compete against itself.

MUST let other insurance companies into the game. This is INSANE!
As expected, the discussion goes back to the public vs private insurance debate, and we have gone over that many, many times even on this forum. The core of the issue isn't really whether public or private is better. Rather, it is how any given system is run. Currently, I'd say our ICBC public system is pretty good, even though there are certainly a lot of improvements that can be made.

[underscore]

What I don't get is why ICBC doesn't just adjust the rates on $150k+ cars to where they need to be? That's what I assume any private company will do, otherwise there's no benefit in them taking on customers that ICBC has deemed too costly.

[!Yaminashi]

What I don't get is why ICBC doesn't just adjust the rates on $150k+ cars to where they need to be? That's what I assume any private company will do, otherwise there's no benefit in them taking on customers that ICBC has deemed too costly.

Because ICBC is run by retards. Or maybe it's just me that feels that way..

[jackmeister]

shouldn't all insurance rates be reflective of the insured value?

like.. if it costs 6x as much to fix, it costs 6x to insure (all else being equal)?

[Digitalis]

So speaking as a socialist SJW.
If it costs 6 times more to fix a 150K+ vehicle shouldn't we charge them 10 times more so it helps out those that can barely afford to insure their beaters?
I mean c'mon these people can afford 150K+ cars can certainly afford to pay a little extra for insurance.

[Manic!]

A guy with a high end car may only drive 30 times a year where as a guy with a old Civic could be driving it every day. Why should the guy driving only 30 times a year pay way more than the guy driving 365 days a year.

[asma123]

Wait. Remind me again what was ICBC annual net income?

[MarkyMark]

A guy with a high end car may only drive 30 times a year where as a guy with a old Civic could be driving it every day. Why should the guy driving only 30 times a year pay way more than the guy driving 365 days a year.

It's called pleasure insurance, you pay less and can drive up to 6 days in a calendar month. If they want to insure it for everyday use and only drive it 30 times a year then they can pay more for being stupid.

[dabbin]

It's called pleasure insurance, you pay less and can drive up to 6 days in a calendar month. If they want to insure it for everyday use and only drive it 30 times a year then they can pay more for being stupid.

You can drive every day on pleasure use only, you can only drive to/for work 6 times a month.

[jasonturbo]

This is totally unfair, why should I pay more to insure a new GT3, if anything I should get discount for having a car that is savage AF.

It's like the government won't stop until they've made being rich suck as much as being poor sucks.

[meme405]

This is totally unfair, why should I pay more to insure a new GT3, if anything I should get discount for having a car that is savage AF.

It's like the government won't stop until they've made being rich suck as much as being poor sucks.

Cram it, you dirty Albertan.

[twitchyzero]

my amerifriends paying geico 50 USD/mo with roadside assistance sure beats $150+ ICBC rates...I say bring on the competition

plot twist: the drivers down in that state are significantly worse than Vancouver drivers. Just my own anecdotes though

insurance on my 11 year old Honda with equal years of squeaky clean records is
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQcYWq5iUBy-Gdlo-KYI4MeL8LtWKV_P8a7zXpsKjtr50NztFG6pdRtq8qR

[toyota86]

The system is so broken as is. I know of a foreign kid has had multiple at fault accidents under his name in various cars. He then tried to insured his new lambo under his mom's name. Something went sideways and it didn't work out. Now, he insures his lambo using temp permits because it ends up being cheaper than getting normal insurance.

[jasonturbo]

Cram it, you dirty Albertan.

I'm moving back to North Van Dec 10th ;)

Feel free to have a celebration honouring my return.

youporn + Kleenex = celebration

[Edison_Chen]

Is that your reading of today's announcement, dabbin? Cuz as I read up on the various news report for it, my interpretation is quite different from yours, and that was how I came to my concerns above. From the way I am reading the press announcement, ICBC is entirely getting out of the insurance game for $150k+ vehicles. No optional insurance. No basic coverage. No nothing. They are letting the private sector handle that, and they are preparing the legislations for it.

So if they really get out of the basic insurance game for the $150k cars, that would be a game changer. But if they continue to offer basic liability insurance to them, then it seems like a pretty dumb plan. They should have just up the rates for those $150k+ cars to the point where they (ICBC) can break even, or maybe even make some profit. If the province is only dropping the optional insurance for those $150k+ cars, it is pretty much handing the potential cash cow over to the private insurance sector.

Currently from what I heard, these high end vehicles for own damage are rated differently from the regular vehicles. These are considered rate group 98 vehicles, and in order to buy own damage (collision and comp), the customers have to complete an application form for ICBC to determine what premiums they charge for own damage. Customers can still buy extra third party liability without the application.

Currently ICBC distributes the license (license plates) and insurance (basic and or optional). When a normal person wants to insure/license a vehicle, they are issued a license plate and there is basic insurance that comes with it; as per ICBC.com there are 5 components that comes with basic insurance: basic third party liability, accident benefits, under inside motorists protection, hit and run and reverse liability"

I would say it would be pretty hard if some other provincial body distributed plates for these exotic vehicles. It seems like what's hurting them is the own damage portion for these types of vehicles. Like what pets have said, how do they charge the correct premium for these vehicles. I would guess some new drivers would pay around $10,000+ premiums for the own damage.

[Timpo]

so ICBC won't insure a car worth $150k+?

What if you own an Acura NSX or Porsche 911 Turbo?

Are you allowed to buy your basic insurance with private insurer?

[underscore]

A guy with a high end car may only drive 30 times a year where as a guy with a old Civic could be driving it every day. Why should the guy driving only 30 times a year pay way more than the guy driving 365 days a year.

Because according to the stats mentioned here they crash a heck of a lot during those 30 days. Maybe if rich idiots stopped buying teenagers Lambos we wouldn't have these problems.

[ForeverYours]

I wouldn't mind a rate hike as long as the max discount level goes higher than ~43% - so it encourages better driving.
I'd love to end up getting something along the lines of 60-70% off yearly insurance

[Harvey Specter]

Lol, my Lambo is been delivered in 2 weeks and I was waiting for ICBC's underwriter to get back to my agent with a quote but not sure what ICBC is going to quote me now based on these changes.

[twitchyzero]

^doubt it'll kick in until spring the earliest

what's the magic number for luxury tax? $65k+? Why not make it a rule like that for any cars < 5 years that had the luxury tax. I guess many SUVs and entry-levels benz/bimmers will be inclusive of that bracket and the owners already mad they have to pay premium gas and maintenance is spendier than a corolla/civic :troll:

[teggy604]

Raping our Asses? I pay $1650 a year for a 16 year old truck with 0 coverage outside of 3M liability..

thats with 44% discount, 10 years safe driving, yadayadayada

my ass is feeling pretty sore as is with ICBC..

My ass is more sore than yours lol.

1990 Honda civic hatch with 340,000 kms. zero coverage except 3 Million liability. Max out discount and I still pay $1200 a year.

[twitchyzero]

is there sentimental value or or is it extensively modified?

to me there's no reason to keep a car long term worth less than the annual operating costs.

[Harvey Specter]

Election is right around the corner so when you need votes just wage a war against the rich...the same "rich" people who have been funding your party and bringing a steady flow of foreign capital so your leader can go around bragging about a surplus. Like the saying goes, don't bite the hand that feeds you.

[teggy604]

its a cheap beater and its very reliable. cost nothing really in terms of maintenance.

[hud 91gt]

Fuck. We need trump! (Look totally joking here) haha that shit pisses me off though wow.

Would mandatory dash cams be do able? Also increase the fines/sentences to fraud help avoid the ass hats from ruining it for everyone? There goes the hobby of automotive fun. May have to build a dedicated track car.

[flagella]

is there sentimental value or or is it extensively modified?

to me there's no reason to keep a car long term worth less than the annual operating costs.

What other cheaper alternative do you suggest? It absolutely makes sense to keep an older car as long ss it runs reliabily, and that applies to many of Japanese cars.

[FerrariEnzo]

The rates should effect people who never had accidents.. I would say, premium should effect people who have accidents and/or who have speeding tickets....

Just not fair to penalize everyone

[wingies]

I wouldn't mind a rate hike as long as the max discount level goes higher than ~43% - so it encourages better driving.
I'd love to end up getting something along the lines of 60-70% off yearly insurance

Yep, every year earning another level on the ICBC discount scale, when the net cost of your insurance is still going up

[Mancini]

So they're saying the rate is not reflective of the risk and owners of lower priced vehicles are essentially subsidizing the cost of optional insurance on high priced vehicles.

What really concerns me as an average Joe is whether this methodology applies to other rate categories. By insuring my $29,000 car am I subsidizing the cost for owners of a $60,000 car? I hope not.

[Traum]

The point was not lost on me when I initially read up on the news, but a friend reminded me that the real important point from yesterday's announcement was the looming rate hike -- to the tune of a cumulative 42% increase over the next 5 years as projected by ICBC's worst case sceneario -- and that was the subject heading for the thread as well.

Is the worst case scenario going to happen? I dunno. But given ICBC track record, how the provincial government has been siphoning massive funds from them, and how even the best case scenario is still projecting a cumulative 16% rate increase, the outlook does not look good.

We need to do something to urge the government / ICBC to properly manage the situation, but I don't know what that thing is.

[604STIG]

I feel like ever since we've been given the option to go to private insurance for our optional coverage, ICBC's reponse has been to increase basic rates year after year. Their way of getting our money one way or another.

[thumper]

Mike Smyth: Ignore the distractions — voters can handle the truth on ICBC rate hikes

http://nanaimonewsnow.com/sites/default/files/styles/main_image/public/field/image/STONE%20ICBC%20ANNOUNCE.jpg?itok=GNBnVaFm

Ignore the distractions ? voters can handle the truth on ICBC hikes | The Province (http://theprovince.com/opinion/columnists/mike-smyth-ignore-the-distractions-voters-can-handle-the-truth-on-icbc-rate-hikes)

As soon as the B.C. government was forced to reveal possible ICBC rate hikes of up to 42 per cent over the next five years, it was time for them to reveal something else: A sleek, shiny, turbo-charged distraction.

The government’s message: Pay no attention to that humongous rate hike bearing down on your wallet like a runaway 18-wheeler, B.C. drivers! We’re bringing the hammer down on wannabe James Bonds tearing around in Lamborghinis and Maseratis.

I’ll explain in a minute why you should not fall for the government’s misdirection on sports-car-driving playboys. Let’s talk about how much you could be paying to drive your own car first.

The jaw-dropping, 42-per-cent rate hike was contained in ICBC premium projections that the public auto-insurer wanted to keep secret, but was forced to disclose Wednesday by the B.C. Utilities Commission.

With an election approaching in the spring, the last thing the government wanted to tell voters was the truth: Five more years of pain for B.C. drivers who have already seen premiums rise more than 37 per cent since 2011.

You can bet the government considered muzzling the nosy utilities commission with a cabinet order that would have kept the possible rate-hike shocker a secret.

(Remember that scene in the movies where Jack Nicholson told Tom Cruise: “You can’t handle the truth?” It would have been something like that.)

But that would have been such an obvious insult to voters’ collective intelligence that the government decided they could not keep the potential rate hike a secret.

Why could ICBC rates go up so high and so fast? Because the accident rate is up, fraudulent claims are up, court-ordered awards are up, high-tech cars are more expensive to repair and a weak Canadian dollar makes American-made auto parts more pricey to buy.

Still, a compounded 42-per-cent rate hike is an unwelcome pre-election talking point for the governing Liberals. (On a yearly basis, the projection is a 4.9-per-cent increase this year, 6.4 per cent in 2017, 7.9 per cent in 2018, 9.4 per cent in 2019 and 7.9 per cent in 2020.)

So Transportation Minister Todd Stone insisted Wednesday that the potential rate hikes are “an extreme, worst-case, hypothetical situation.”

“We are not going to allow a scenario that would provide for that level of basic rate increases to actually happen.”

He said the government will crack down on fraud and distracted driving to keep rate hikes lower.

And then he wheeled out that big distraction I mentioned earlier.

Stone announced ICBC will refuse to insure high-end luxury vehicles valued at over $150,000. He said these rare, exotic cars are six times more expensive to repair than normal vehicles.

Legislation will be passed to force the owners of these exotic cars to get private insurance. In the meantime, Stone said, ICBC will double their existing premiums.

Drivers, please don’t fall for this obvious distraction away from the looming ICBC rate hikes on your own vehicle.

For one thing, there are only 3,000 of these exotic cars on the road. If you think refusing to insure less than one-tenth of one per cent of the 3.1 million vehicles in B.C. will make any significant difference to your own ICBC bill, then I have a slightly used Yugo I’d like to sell you.

Here’s a friendly suggestion to Stone: If these cars really are six times more expensive to repair than normal cars, ICBC should be more than just doubling their premiums. It should be a lot more.

And minister: Please stop using ICBC like a heavily lactating cash cow. The government practice of extracting “dividends” from ICBC — more than $1 billion siphoned in recent years — should be stopped right now, forever, before we pay a penny more.

msmyth@postmedia.com

twitter.com/mikesmythnews

CLICK HERE to report a typo.

Is there more to this story? We’d like to hear from you about this or any other stories you think we should know about. Email vantips@postmedia.com.

[Harvey Specter]

So got my quote for the Lambo. It'll be around $4000/year (includes basic + optional), $2800 deductible so no increase from the quote I got a few months ago. I called CDI and they quoted the optional insurance for a $1000 less than ICBC but 3rd party liability is $1.5m compared to $3m ICBC is including.

I was also told that ICBC has no plans to cancel the insurance for exotics until the gov't actually passes something and even then it might take a couple years for the policy to go into effect. Like I was told by someone at ICBC it's all political talk.

[twitchyzero]

^ that quote actually seems very reasonable for an exotic

[Harvey Specter]

^ that quote actually seems very reasonable for an exotic

Yup, it's really based on your driving record and how many years you've been driving. If you have two+ at fault accidents on your driving record you're basically screwed or if you're under 25, male and you've been only driving for a few years.

[underscore]

$4k/yr for a Lamborghini? So your insurance is only 2.5x more than mine even though your vehicle is worth at least 50x more?

[unit]

4k to insure a lambo is a steal. literally, as in stealing money from those who pay just under half as much to insure beaters.

[Harvey Specter]

Well rates boil down to your age and driving record. I have a clean driving record, no violations, no accidents plus 20 years of experience.

[MarkyMark]

I'm the same as you except 15 years driving experience and my F150 costs me $2200 with max discount... At least my deductable is only $300 lol

[Urrtoast]

Well rates boil down to your age and driving record. I have a clean driving record, no violations, no accidents plus 20 years of experience.

Like I was saying in the earlier post and this Proves my point, Good Drivers with 10plus year driving experience with no accident or stupid tickets should get a discount plain and simple.
:D

Now all the crap drivers can fail this post as well. I need a laff......

[Traum]

For what it is worth, I just ran some insurance numbers yesterday. My ICBC rates were about $200 cheaper than CDI -- and that's on several different cars.

Mind blown, to be sure.

[Teriyaki]

$4k/yr for a Lamborghini? So your insurance is only 2.5x more than mine even though your vehicle is worth at least 50x more?

I think this is pretty ridiculous. Someone insuring their $2000 winter beater (which they drive all year because they can't afford anything more) might pay half that cost. Yet when an accident occurs, the lambo's headlight probably costs more than the entire car itself of the cheaper car. What kind of math is this and how in the world is this possibly sustainable and profitable.

I'm not a hater of ICBC, and don't know enough about public vs private insurance but the math on this just doesn't make sense.

[Traum]

Someone insuring a $2k winter beater will probably pay $1000 - $1200k for liability insurance only. It makes no sense to pay extra for full coverage when the car is worth so little, and when the smallest accident will cause the beater to get written off.

I'm very surprised that Harvey Specter can score a $4k insurance rate on his Lambo, even when his clean driving record and experience is taken into account. The numbers that I've heard seem to hover around the $10k mark for super cars, and that seems more sensible to me. But even then, I am not sure if it is enough to be sustainable for that kind of vehicles.

On a different note, I priced out the insurance for a Cayman S and C7 GS just for the heck of it, and full coverage for those cars under my name should only be around $2k to $2.5k. Granted, those are not super cars per se, but they are still vehicles close to the $100k mark. Quite frankly, I am very surprised by how cheap their rates are.

[underscore]

Well rates boil down to your age and driving record. I have a clean driving record, no violations, no accidents plus 20 years of experience.

I do too (albeit 11 years, but still max discount) yet any exterior component of your car (fender, light, etc) probably costs twice as much as my whole Jeep is worth. That's a great deal for you, and nothing personal but it's kinda bullshit that you can insure it so cheaply.

[Harvey Specter]

ICBC is honestly all over the map with rates when it comes to exotics. There's some guys paying what I'm paying, some guys are paying a tad bit higher. I've heard from people that some Aventador owners are paying well over $10k/year, I've even heard of someone paying something like $30k/year.

And another factor ICBC takes into consideration for the rate is things like where you live, your house, where your car is been parked and who else will be driving it. For example, if I put my wife on my insurance the rate would have gone up by a couple thousand just because she doesn't have a great driving record. So atm no one can drive my car, can't even move it a inch so that's pretty shitty unless I pay the extra and put my wife on it.

[whitev70r]

Seems like now ICBC is going to stop insuring high-end luxury cars altogether? Unless it's all talk ...

ICBC will stop insuring high-end luxury cars (http://www.news1130.com/2016/11/23/icbc-will-stop-insuring-high-end-luxury-cars/)

VANCOUVER (NEWS 1130) – Driving your Bugatti around town will likely cost much more in the near future. The BC Government is planning to stop allowing owners of luxury vehicles worth more than $150,000 to get their insurance through ICBC.

According to Stone, there are about 3,000 cars worth more than $150,000 insured in BC this year, a 30 per cent increase from three years ago. He says it’s unfair to expect drivers of average cars to subsidize the cost to fix luxury cars. “Right now, whether a person drives a $25,000 Honda Civic or whether that person drives a $200,000 Lamborghini, their insurance rates are similar, while the costs of repair are substantially different… When these more expensive vehicles get into a crash, it costs approximately six times more to fix them because these vehicles are rare. They’re also built using high-end technology and much more expensive materials.”

[dark0821]

... sigh... this news is just depressing... my opinion will just be for ICBC to give a better discount than 43%...

Yes punish the good drivers to pay for the bad drivers...

[Gucci Mane]

I'm the same as you except 15 years driving experience and my F150 costs me $2200 with max discount... At least my deductable is only $300 lol

you're paying $200 more per year than i am and we drive the same vehicle and have the same discounts. but the difference might be that my deductible is $500. i think.. lol.

[Marco911]

1) There's a misconception that luxury car owners pay the same basic rates as econoboxes. The vehicles fall into a rate class depending on type of vehicle/age.
Perhaps they need to review the accident rates of the different rate classes and charge the appropriate premiums for each. They probably need to create some higher rate classes as well for super-exotics made of carbon fibre. That seems to be the basic role of insurance actuarial math. They haven't actually provided us with the data of the total repair claims of high end cars vs. the premiums collected on these, so it is impossible to tell how much money they are losing here. If there are only 3,000 of these cars on the road, there is no way they are driving up the total cost of insurance for everybody. So I agree, they are using this as a distraction.

2) Insurance costs are not just repair costs for vehicles but also injury and property damage costs. I'm sure fraud and injury costs are through the roof in BC. I haven't seen the data, but statements from ICBC seem to bear this out.

3) How has the ICBC investment portfolio done for the premium float they have invested each year? They haven't published their actual rate of return against their assumed rate of return for the actuarial estimates. I'm guessing their asset managers have performed very very poorly.

4) Private companies won't agree to come into the marketplace if they can only insure a small pool of vehicles. The admin costs alone such as hiring inspectors, lawyers, etc etc would not make the business viable. ICBC won't/can't get out of this business without allowing private companies to compete against them for basic insurance. So either they will change the law to privatise auto insurance in BC or everyone's rates will just go up. Remember you heard that here first.

[skylinergtr]

icbc and the news fails to bring up how icbc has spent hundreds of millions of dollars on this new computer system for their insurance which has caused nothing but problems so far. They need to recoup somehow... blame it on high end cars.

[MarkyMark]

you're paying $200 more per year than i am and we drive the same vehicle and have the same discounts. but the difference might be that my deductible is $500. i think.. lol.

Our liability coverage could be different as well

[MrPhreak]

.

[twitchyzero]

how is a new Fiesta ST under $1600 even with 40% discount? That's a good deal around these parts.

[MrPhreak]

.

[TouringTeg]

PST ugh. Did you buy both cars within the last 6 months?

[MrPhreak]

PST ugh. Did you buy both cars within the last 6 months?

I bought them both new... I've had one for about 3.5 years, and the other for just over 2 now

[320icar]

Watching the news on my break, icbc says it will be bankrupt in the next 3 years. Huge losses blah blah raising rates blah blah.

How long until BC ditches this shit crown corporation. Never say never, we did eventually get rid of aircarez

[!LittleDragon]

Got my renewal letter. Looks like my rate went up almost $100. No tickets, no accidents. Nothing changed...

2015 Genesis 5.0 with max 43% Roadstar = $2300

[pastarocket]

What are your thoughts about increased competition for auto insurance business in B.C?

I'm thinking that IF somehow the province allowed private insurance companies to sell basic and optional insurance to drivers, then insurance premiums could go down.

This won't happen in a million years in B.C. but I was thinking what if you more choices in terms of private insurers (GEICO,AllState, etc). like in the U.S.
:considered:

[Great68]

Disagree. Private companies can flat out deny providing insurance, and I don't like that.
My truck just came up for renewal, I was doing my optionals through Coast Insurance, but now that it's crossed 20 years old Coast Capital will no longer insure it. This is a vehicle that is in great shape and well maintained, and I have a perfect driving record. I had to do my optionals back through ICBC.

[freakshow]

i for one welcome our private insurance overlords.
I think some of us older RSers would benefit from lower prices, but the 16-18 year olds might suffer

[320icar]

I also think it's important to not lose sight of the fact we were all young, new drivers once. Coming from motorcycles, beacon etc won't even give you insurance if your under 25 (lets not forget you could legally ride a motorcycle at 16, so you could theoretically already have 9 years riding experience).

We need there to be guaranteed and affordable insurance for our next gen of enthusiasts

[freakshow]

Disagree. Private companies can flat out deny providing insurance, and I don't like that.
My truck just came up for renewal, I was doing my optionals through Coast Insurance, but now that it's crossed 20 years old Coast Capital will no longer insure it. This is a vehicle that is in great shape and well maintained, and I have a perfect driving record. I had to do my optionals back through ICBC.

I would like to think that this is partially because we have a mixed system, which immediately reduces the amount of competition in the industry. If it was fully private, I think there would be enough competition that you could find someone to insure your truck

[underscore]

Disagree. Private companies can flat out deny providing insurance, and I don't like that.

They can also stop insuring you on a whim. I don't want to have to worry about some company cancelling all my insurance and my wifes insurance just because they didn't like me going to a track day or something (this has happened in Oregon, they cancelled his home insurance too).

I also don't want to have to worry about reading every bit of fine print to know they aren't going to try to get out of paying a claim because of some technicality hidden in a clause. And then do that again for multiple companies to compare quotes. I'm busy enough as it is, I don't need to waste all this time and deal with all these potential headaches just to maybe save a few bucks a year.

[MrPhreak]

In BC, ICBC is actually usable, and really it isn't a bad setup. The problem with it is the NDP started raiding them for huge amounts of cash, and with the debt they racked up the Liberals have had to do the same. So you are not just paying for your car insurance, you are subsidizing your provincial government. I guess one way to look at this is realistically, if they stopped raided ICBC, they would have to increase your taxes somewhere else.

PST ugh. Did you buy both cars within the last 6 months?
So just a quick update, I think I don't have to pay GST on my cars, which would be awesome

[noclue]

FYI if your USED car has a value over $55,000 you will pay an additional luxury tax up to 3%..

bring back the HST please.

[twitchyzero]

Got my renewal letter. Looks like my rate went up almost $100. No tickets, no accidents. Nothing changed...

2015 Genesis 5.0 with max 43% Roadstar = $2300

that's like 4%

is there a fee list that shows how much bodyshops are charging YoY?

[subordinate]

that's like 4%

is there a fee list that shows how much bodyshops are charging YoY?

That 5.5% increase that just happen..and looks like another coming .....

[Arvi604]

I switched my optionals on two cars (13 328xi & 15 CR-V EX-L) to Bel Air and have more MORE coverage than ICBC ($2.8m 3rd party, $300 collision, $200 Comp, $1m underinsured, roadside loss of use, windshield repair) we are paying $2010/year for both cars down from $3310!!! Huge savings. Less money going to ICBC from this household. Good riddance.

[StylinRed]

Watching the news on my break, icbc says it will be bankrupt in the next 3 years. Huge losses blah blah raising rates blah blah.

How long until BC ditches this shit crown corporation. Never say never, we did eventually get rid of aircarez

The province dips into the icbc coffers all the time, which is why they're going "bankrupt", and then icbc comes up with lame excuses to increase taxes uhm I mean insurance rates, so there's no way in hell that the province will get rid of icbc

[320icar]

So then why doesn't icbc start a big commercial and radio ad campaign telling us citizens in black and white that the reason rates are so high is because of our own government. If everyone knew and made it clear and icbc showed it as a "scandal" something might change then.

I pay around ~2500/year with my '14 ST, and that's with a spotless record and -43%

[Lowered_Klass]

On a side note to the raise in rates, I think ICBC should be getting more strict with injury claims. Crack down more on these monster pay outs people are getting for low impact claims. They do a decent job sure, but far too many people use these small accidents as a lottery win of sorts.

It should be there for people who truly and honestly need it. I'd love to know how much is spent on ICBC's behalf with these payouts, lawyers, etc etc.

[H.Specter]

On a side note to the raise in rates, I think ICBC should be getting more strict with injury claims. Crack down more on these monster pay outs people are getting for low impact claims. They do a decent job sure, but far too many people use these small accidents as a lottery win of sorts.

It should be there for people who truly and honestly need it. I'd love to know how much is spent on ICBC's behalf with these payouts, lawyers, etc etc.

ICBC pays out based on medical evidence. Well guess what, many medical practitioners are in the pockets of the lawyers. You know the rest of the story..

[MrPhreak]

I went through a hell of a marathon getting my cars switched over

Showed up at the place bright and early... We broke for lunch, came back at 1:30 and wrapped it all up at 3:30pm

We got hung up on virtually every part... opps, system isn't working, have to call ICBC again... and get them to override... again *sigh*.

It was a huge pain, but in the end I didn't have to pay GST on my cars, I was able to get the 40% discount right off the bat, and I didn't have to do inspections on my cars.

Now I got blue plates! Hooray!

[thumper]

not sure if this was posted but... icbc luxury vehicle list:

http://www.icbc.com/autoplan/optional/Documents/vehicle-list.pdf

aside from naming almost every modern ferrari, lamborghini, and porsche, is it just me or is this list is very specific for some cars, such as:

osca mt4:
http://cartype.com/pics/3799/small/osca-mt4-spider_front.jpg
ruf ctr:
http://media.caranddriver.com/images/13q4/543509/1987-ruf-ctr-yellowbird-911-turbo-driven-video-photo-545406-s-450x274.jpg
saleen s7:
https://storage.googleapis.com/gtspirit/uploads/2013/11/Saleen-S7.jpg
SLR McLaren 722:
http://cdn.johnywheels.com/2015/07/07/mercedesbenzslrmclaren722edition-l-c311076e27e2b2c1.jpg
XJ220 (but for some reason it only singles out Left Hand Drive Import):
https://www.classicdriver.com/sites/default/files/styles/two_third_slider/public/import/cars/12295/1852337/bigg.jpg?itok=oztaSSz7

... but i don't see a porsche 959 on the list. i can still dream! :woot: