[Traum]

Crews rescue out-of-bounds skiers stranded overnight on Cypress Mountain | CTV Vancouver News (http://bc.ctvnews.ca/crews-rescue-out-of-bounds-skiers-stranded-overnight-on-cypress-mountain-1.3199119#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=Facebook&_gsc=Amf57Wl)

Last Updated Monday, December 12, 2016 9:59AM PST

A pair of skiers who went out-of-bounds on the North Shore has been saved by rescue crews – but spent a chilly night stuck on the mountain.

Brian Parsons, one of the two rescued men, said it was a dumb decision to go out of bounds and he feels lucky to be alive.

North Shore Rescue found the two men in the out-of-bounds area of Cypress Mountain on Sunday evening.

The skiers were discovered deep in Tony Baker Gulley, a “steep, treacherous, avalanche prone area.”

But the rescue group said it wouldn't send crews further into the gully that night to get them because of high avalanche conditions, "avi danger assessments, and observed avalanches in the area."

“There is also a danger crews may trigger avalanches above the missing skiers. NSR will be pulling out crews that are in the field.”

A rescue with helicopter support was lifted off around 7:30 a.m. Monday and crews rescued the stranded duo with the help of long-lines.

Sunday’s avalanche risk for North Shore mountains was labelled high, with avalanches of large sizes being very likely to occur.

“[Avalanches] can happen naturally - what’s happening right now is that it’s warming up, so we are getting lots of tree bombs that are falling, big clumps of snow falling,” said Mike Danks, North Shore Rescue. “Those can trigger an avalanche, or you can have a human triggered avalanche.”

North Shore Rescue is once again reminding people to be aware of the high avalanche danger in the mountains right now, and is asking skiers to stay in-bounds on trails at local ski resorts.

[IMASA]

It really pisses me off that these people aren't legally required to pay for the costs of the rescue. I understand that if people had to pay, then they would be reluctant to call for help and could lead to negative outcomes. But this is just a waste of resources and puts rescuers' lives at risk.

[freakshow]

I always thought (maybe hoped) that they were liable for rescue costs.. especially when they explicitly go out of bounds on private property

[quasi]

I don't think they charge because they worry that people won't call if in trouble for fear of getting a bill. I could be wrong, but that would make sense to me.

[6o4__boi]

that's stupid

why can't they make it so that if they were out of bounds, they have to pay unless they had a legitimate excuse for going out of bounds?

Every year we get these jackasses who think they're the shit going off bounds and then wasting resources having their dumb asses plucked from near death. If you're dumb enough not to call for help when your life's in danger because you're worried about costs, you're dumb enough to be taken out of the gene pool.

[Traum]

Stories like this come up multiple times in any given winter, and every time it happens, it upsets me tremendously.

I understand people want to tackle the back country, how they enjoy nature, and how they want virgin snow and fresh powders, etc. And I would say I am not at all against that. But the problem is, people seem to do this without without seriously considering, or more critically, facing and shouldering up to the consequences when shxt hits the fan.

I'll be the first to say that if someone go lost, stranded, or buried because they ventured out of bounds, and ended up dying from it, I'd have little sympathy for them. They knowingly and consciously chose to engage in an activity that carries a known risk, and have been warned against doing, and yet they still proceeded to do it. So if shxt happens, I'd say people need to live up to the consequences.

Realistically, I think the rescue team should make these victims pay for the full costs of the rescue operations along with a small profit / penalty on top. There are both financial costs and human risks involved in conducting a search and rescue operation. It is only fair that those who get rescued from going out of bounds pay financially. Otherwise, they would be paying with their lives, and money is a lot cheaper than lives.

[adambomb]

Fuck these guys putting rescuers lives at risk. SwiftRage

This ain't their first time going out of bounds. They've been out of bounds before. Time to ban them from local mountains. Want fresh pow? Spend some money and go heli-skiing you cheap fucks.

Skiers rescued after being left in the cold overnight on Cypress Mountain - NEWS 1130 (http://www.news1130.com/2016/12/12/skiers-left-cold-overnight-cypress-mountain/)

[Ferra]

lol reminds me of going out on a "closed run" at cypress many years ago...

The run was open the years before...double black, very few people use it, awesome deep powder. They closed it that year and we decided to try to go thru it anyway. (It had a rope blocking and a "run closed" sign)

After about 5 mins....we kinda realize it was too dangerous and no way of seeing what's ahead (very deep snow, hidden rock and cliff drops, plus it was night time). We took off our snowboard and spent 30 mins+ climbing back up

In the end...it was like a cheap lesson for us to learn not to go out of bound..
any un-monitored runs have a lot of hidden hazard you simply cannot see... (10ft drops, rocks, snow pile thick enough to bury you once you stop moving..etc)

[originalhypa]

Back in the late 90's we were blessed with 1000+cm at Seymour on a regular basis.
One sunny December afternoon my friend and I decided to hike out of bounds to a known spot where the Seymour Kids would hang out and session jumps. So we hiked for about 20 mins and found the spot. After being there for about an hour, the weather started to roll in. We decided it would be wise to hike back, but the problem with Seymour is that once the weather starts rolling in, you can't see a damn thing. We were still about 10 minutes from the in bounds area, and now couldn't see where we were going.

Long story short, I was able to hear the clacking of the chair in the distance, and we followed the sound until we got to an area that we finally recognized. It was a terrifying thought, that we could have been stuck out there. But we were lucky enough to get out on our own. Shit happens, and no one who stumbles out of bounds is ever expecting to be rescued. But I learned my lesson one time. These jackasses seem to be using NSSR as their personal concierge out of the bush. Maybe that's why they let them spend the night outside.....

[underscore]

I'm always confused as to why everyone complains about people skiing out of bounds and being rescued by S&R. I'm failing to see how it's any different from any other outdoor activity that might leave you needing S&R.

That said, if the same people are making the same mistakes repeatedly then perhaps fines need to be involved (regardless of the activity).

[Spoon]

NSR should start a gofundme campaign 24hr prior to every rescue. :D

You better hope you have rich friends and families. :troll:

[jshen]

If even the elderly get charged 80$ for an ambulance, sure enough these fools should pay too.

If the bill turns away callers, so be it. They clearly dont value their lives.

[RRxtar]

everyone always likes to point at skiers going out of bounds as the people who should be chaged for SAR. Theres over 1300 SAR callouts per year in BC, and Im sure more than half of them are in the summer. How many times do we hear about people being hurt and needing to be air lifted out, while on a hike, on a marked hiking trail, in the summer?


I agree that if you willfully do something illegal and need SAR, you should be responsible. but quite often "out of bounds" on a ski hill, is out side of the ski hill property boundary, and that technically isnt illegal as you are leaving private property and entering public crown land. do you draw the line at "willfully" putting yourself in danger vs having an accident? is breaking your leg on an off trail hike in the summer willful endangerment or an accident? what about an accident while 4x4ing on marked roads?


edit: maybe there should be some kind of SAR insurance you could purchase.

[vitaminG]

They don't charge because then people will be reluctant to call. If you don't call immediately, you might get more lost trying to find your way out, wait till dark to call, or call friends/family who could also end up lost. Any of those things would make an eventual rescue more difficult and/or dangerous.

Sar is generally volunteer and funded by donations and grants.

[Hondaracer]

Getting lost here is nothing, especially in the summer when you could wait for daylight and hike back towards the city and eventually if you hiked south find humanity.

I've only been close to being lost once while out hunting in the kootneys, literally thousands of hectares of indistinguishable land. I took a shot at a deer and tried to track it and get another shot. Before I knew it I was turned around and it was dark in about 2' of snow. Anyone who hunts knows it's very hard to hear a gunshot in dense forest/snow. Luckily I saw the flashlight of a partner about 45 minutes later but even for someone prepared like myself there were definitely moments of terror lol

Not trying to be hard just sharing a story :p

[meme405]

Okay hold on. I am good friends with some of the people who volunteer with NSSAR, and I have helped previously, when I can with whatever I can (dispatch, coordination, etc.), I worked for Cypress mountain for 6 years back in highschool and a little after, so I have worked closely with these guys many times.

They will be the first ones to tell you they won't ever charge for their service. They take donations graciously, but they will never charge someone they rescue money. Otherwise people will simply not call them, and the last thing they want is for someone to die when they could have helped them.

Keep in mind NSSAR crew are all volunteers, these guys do this because they just want to help, and they know that if they start charging people they rescue, it will affect the amount of people they can help.

Not only are they volunteers, these guys pay for all their own gear as well, sure they get discounts at many great places, however their packs, which are filled with thousands of dollars worth of stuff is mostly paid for through their own pockets.

In addition to that the commitment they make is remarkable, stories of members who have had to leave friends or family functions when their cell phone rings are a normal occurrence, or taking off from work middle of the day because they have to attend a call. These guys make a commitment to drop whatever they are doing when they are on call, to report if there is an emergency. Again they do this because they JUST WANT TO HELP.

It's pretty unfair for you guys to try to speak for these members, who I know if they could, would openly tell all of you how vehemently they oppose charging people they rescue.

Believe me I don't disagree, people who get lost or go out of bounds without knowing what they are doing, or in conditions which exist now, are incredibly irresponsible. But forcing them to pay I don't think is a reasonable expectation, otherwise it will result in a lot more missing people on our mountains not being rescued until it is much too late.

[Traum]

I'm always confused as to why everyone complains about people skiing out of bounds and being rescued by S&R. I'm failing to see how it's any different from any other outdoor activity that might leave you needing S&R.


everyone always likes to point at skiers going out of bounds as the people who should be chaged for SAR. Theres over 1300 SAR callouts per year in BC, and Im sure more than half of them are in the summer. How many times do we hear about people being hurt and needing to be air lifted out, while on a hike, on a marked hiking trail, in the summer?

I'd say the biggest difference between skiiers like this incident here and other outdoor activities that might require S&R is -- with skiiers, the rescue window is a lot smaller (due to temperatures and environmental conditions), and the rescue itself is often far more dangerous and difficult (for the rescuers).

[meme405]

Every year we get these jackasses who think they're the shit going off bounds and then wasting resources having their dumb asses plucked from near death. If you're dumb enough not to call for help when your life's in danger because you're worried about costs, you're dumb enough to be taken out of the gene pool.

Again this is all good to be able to stand on the sidelines and say, but condemning someone to death is a very difficult stance to take when you are in the position that NS SAR is.

In 2007 around closing a car was noticed in the cypress mountain parking lot, it was covered in snow, it had been there all day long, Cypress crews scoured the chalet area, rentals, and all over the trails, within 25 minutes we knew it was time to call NSSAR and start a search.

A large contingent of our Ski Patrollers who had already worked 8+ hours on a very busy day, as well as cypress employees who had been there all day, and NSSAR coordinated an effort which late that night located the bodies of two young men.

It was an absolutely debilitating feeling, one which I hope most never have or do experience in their lifetime. Now take that feeling and multiply it by 100 knowing that you didn't do everything in your capability to save that husband, brother, son, loved one, etc. In all honesty, I'd probably kill myself.

You guys are talking about human life in here very nonchalantly, but guaranteed when put in a position, making a decision of money vs human life, most of you I hope wouldn't pick the money...

EDIT: and one other thing, these mountains are notorious for deaths and problems, because people simply don't know what they are getting themselves into. Many times the people can be experienced back country skiers and riders, but never having ridden in an area such as the NS mountains, and a lack of geographical knowledge and planning gets them into problems.

The main problem is that people stupidly believe that if they continue going down they can get back to either a road, or a escape route, when that's totally not what happens, people continue to hike down and they get into deep ravines or gully's and then they can't climb back up even if they wanted to. It's unforgiving terrain, and unless you really know the area, no amount of experience will keep you out of danger.

[Ch28]

They will be the first ones to tell you they won't ever charge for their service. They take donations graciously, but they will never charge someone they rescue money. Otherwise people will simply not call them, and the last thing they want is for someone to die when they could have helped them.

If you think your life is in danger and you're unwilling to call because you're worried about a bill being charged to you then you deserve to be left out there.

[meme405]

One last note from me, if you guys feel so strongly about this, I really urge you to reach into your own pockets, and donate a little.

Home - North Shore Rescue ? Vancouver Search and Rescue Team - North Shore Rescue is a volunteer run search and rescue team operating in Vancouver and surrounding areas. (http://www.northshorerescue.com/)

And the first person who comments "Fuck that I'm not subsidizing the rescue of someone else".

Please think about it this way, your donations are going directly into keeping one of these volunteers safe. Every dollar that gets donated, is a tiny step further towards protecting these guys when they are out there. It gives them better resources, better equipment, etc.

[whitev70r]

NS SAR are heroes. They should have a user fee, if anything, to cover their equipment, and a nice dinner after every shift. Health care is just as much of an essential service and I pay $150 every month. If these idiots can afford a day at Cypress, these are not people living on social assistance, they can afford to pay.

As a general rule, they should drop an overnight kit and leave all idiots (who go OB intentionally) there till the next morning. Hopefully, they learn their lesson.

[tiger_handheld]

Crews rescue out-of-bounds skiers stranded overnight on Cypress Mountain | CTV Vancouver News (http://bc.ctvnews.ca/crews-rescue-out-of-bounds-skiers-stranded-overnight-on-cypress-mountain-1.3199119#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=Facebook&_gsc=Amf57Wl)



I heard District of North Van is going to increase property taxes by 0.5% to equip North Shore Rescue workers to SPECIFICALLY support skiers who ski out of bounds and need to get rescued.

[jshen]

Even if SAR were all volunteers, there surely are costs associated with its operation. Charge these guys to pay for the fuel, insurance, maintenance on the choppers.

[underscore]

I'd say the biggest difference between skiiers like this incident here and other outdoor activities that might require S&R is -- with skiiers, the rescue window is a lot smaller (due to temperatures and environmental conditions), and the rescue itself is often far more dangerous and difficult (for the rescuers).

I'm not really sure what you mean, how is it any different than a snowmobiler or a snowshoer?

The main problem is that people stupidly believe that if they continue going down they can get back to either a road, or a escape route, when that's totally not what happens, people continue to hike down and they get into deep ravines or gully's and then they can't climb back up even if they wanted to.

That's part of what I love about Big White, and what makes me a lot more cautious when I'm anywhere else. At Big White, aside from going over the backside of the mountain, if you get stuck out of bounds and keep heading downhill you'll eventually hit either the main road or a cross country ski trail.

If you think your life is in danger and you're unwilling to call because you're worried about a bill being charged to you then you deserve to be left out there.

The problem is it's often a grey area. There isn't always a clear line between when you're okay and when you aren't. On top of that, the person calling it in isn't always the person being rescued. This is the bush after all, having cell service is quite unlikely in a lot of places not far off the beaten path.

[Ludepower]

I've heard people who do get rescue donate generously afterwards. So lets not shame them cause they're generally remorseful and own up to it.

[Hondaracer]

I've heard people who do get rescue donate generously afterwards. So lets not shame them cause they're generally remorseful and own up to it.

Whatever their "generous donations" are, I guarantee you it doesn't cover the cost of jet fuel for helicopters.

[meme405]

Whatever their "generous donations" are, I guarantee you it doesn't cover the cost of jet fuel for helicopters.

1. Yes, they probably don't cover helicopter, expenses, but you would be surprised how much some of these rescuee's donate. There are numerous examples, also many of them go on to be very vocal in support of the SAR volunteers, and run fundraisers on behalf of the team. Some examples (just from the blog of NSSAR):

Donation from Rescuee - North Shore Rescue ? Vancouver Search and Rescue Team (http://www.northshorerescue.com/donation-from-rescuee/)

Snowboarder raises $10,000 for NSR - North Shore Rescue ? Vancouver Search and Rescue Team (http://www.northshorerescue.com/snowboarder-raises-10000-for-nsr/)

2. Taken from SAR's own blog:

Inevitably as the media coverage of our rescues increase the cries for “Charge that idiot!” increase. On the surface this seems like a good solution – it would deter people from getting lost, and help fund SAR. Like most things – it is not quite so simple and the knee jerk reaction of charging people for rescue is actually a terrible idea. So why is it a terrible idea?

First off almost every SAR team or organization – volunteer, military or government does not believe charging for rescue is a good idea. This should give you an indication that this probably isn’t a good idea. But lets explore it anyways.

There is sound research behind these policies including that charging for rescue does not actually reduce rescues – it also endangers subjects and rescue crews, and increases fatalities.

On the surface it does appear that this would be a deterrent but it doesn’t work this way in reality.

If people believe they will be charged – people who are in need of rescue don’t call, call too late, or in some cases hide from crews because they think they will be charged. This results in increased fatalities, increase in danger to rescue crews and increase in danger to the person needing rescue. Delaying calling creates a much more dangerous and time sensitive situation that turns what could be a straight forward rescue into a very complex call. So then, what if you say – who cares about these people – they are idiots. While I would disagree with you on that one – most people are not idiots they just make an honest mistake. Lets say for arguments sake that this is the case – they are actually idiots.

So if someone is heading out for a hike/bike/climb/snowshoe/insert activity here – are they thinking they might need a rescue? No of course not – no one ever thinks this (especially if you are an “idiot”). So they do not consider whether they will have to pay for a rescue or not. Hence – this is not a deterrent.

If someone were to need rescue multiple times, and they were fined multiple times, then they would probably think about the fine – similar to how I think I should probably go the speed limit so I don’t have to pay another $280 fine (but that’s another story). 99% of people only ever need rescue once – they learn their lesson – usually because they think they are going to die – and I can assure you thinking you might die is a pretty good way to learn a lesson. If we slap them with a fine – this will not affect their future behavior. They have already experienced a severe natural consequence to their actions – they do not need a logical consequence aka a fine (discussion of natural vs. logical consequences here).

Ok – lets say you don’t believe that, and we say screw it – lets charge that idiot. You now need a system for billing and collecting the money. Most people do not have the funds to pay for a rescue – we are pretty expensive. So now you must send the debt to collections, or sue that person – which all costs money. Most cases in the US where people have been charged the organizations have been unable to recover costs as people are not able to pay. I don’t know many people who have $50k to cover helicopter costs. Just like I don’t know many people who have $50k to cover that life-saving surgery they needed.

So – we have shown that charging for rescue does not create a deterrent, it increases fatalities, increase danger to subject and rescuers, and when it is enforced – organizations rarely actually get the funds. So this idea just doesn’t make a lot of sense.

Finally – why do people care so much about this? Because it is in the news – and gets a lot of coverage because it makes a good news story. I would guess that one weekend in Vancouver dealing with drunken people has a much higher cost than our entire annual budget. The cost for policing, providing ambulance and fire response in the city for drunken party goers in one weekend has to be pretty huge – have you seen Granville Street on a Saturday? Why are we not calling for people to be charged for this? Because it is an everyday occurrence that is not in the news and its just part of our health care system.

We are a nation that believes in national health care and helping those in need. I think this belief of helping our fellow Canadians in need should extend to wilderness SAR as well.

Are there other methods of funding SAR? Yes definitely – there is military SAR, there is SAR paid for by insurance, there is government funded SAR. These are all methods worth exploring.

As well, we should be having conversations about the funding for BC Parks and AdventureSmart – as these programs help prevent people from needing SAR. So discussions around organizations or programs that provide education and preventative programs and how we can fund these as well should be had. We encourage people to come to BC and enjoy the great outdoors, but we should also be providing some education and preventative services along with that message.

Keep in mind also that NS SAR claims that less than 10% of all rescues involve someone who has gone out of bounds, so we are talking about a very small percentage of their year to year operations.

More information on charging for SAR operations:

Paying for Search and Rescue - Who pays for search and rescue operations? | HowStuffWorks (http://adventure.howstuffworks.com/pay-for-search-and-rescue2.htm)

Paying for Wilderness Search and Rescue: Private Cost, or Public Obligation? - Backpacker (http://www.backpacker.com/news-and-events/news/rescue-of-the-week/paying-for-wilderness-search-and-rescue-private-cost-or-public-obligation/)

TL;DR - Even if you did charge people for rescuing them, chances are they simply wouldn't be able to pay, and then what? You are going to have to employ the help of collections, and the legal system to get them to pay?

[Traum]

Here is a news report from yesterday on the incident, with actual rescue footage:

Skiers 'felt really stupid' after getting stuck out of bounds on Cypress | CTV Vancouver News (http://bc.ctvnews.ca/skiers-felt-really-stupid-after-getting-stuck-out-of-bounds-on-cypress-1.3199119)

[Ch28]

Here is a news report from yesterday on the incident, with actual rescue footage:

Skiers 'felt really stupid' after getting stuck out of bounds on Cypress | CTV Vancouver News (http://bc.ctvnews.ca/skiers-felt-really-stupid-after-getting-stuck-out-of-bounds-on-cypress-1.3199119)

Fucking morons

[- kT]

1. Yes, they probably don't cover helicopter, expenses, but you would be surprised how much some of these rescuee's donate. There are numerous examples, also many of them go on to be very vocal in support of the SAR volunteers, and run fundraisers on behalf of the team. Some examples (just from the blog of NSSAR):

Donation from Rescuee - North Shore Rescue ? Vancouver Search and Rescue Team (http://www.northshorerescue.com/donation-from-rescuee/)

Snowboarder raises $10,000 for NSR - North Shore Rescue ? Vancouver Search and Rescue Team (http://www.northshorerescue.com/snowboarder-raises-10000-for-nsr/)

2. Taken from SAR's own blog:



Keep in mind also that NS SAR claims that less than 10% of all rescues involve someone who has gone out of bounds, so we are talking about a very small percentage of their year to year operations.

More information on charging for SAR operations:

Paying for Search and Rescue - Who pays for search and rescue operations? | HowStuffWorks (http://adventure.howstuffworks.com/pay-for-search-and-rescue2.htm)

Paying for Wilderness Search and Rescue: Private Cost, or Public Obligation? - Backpacker (http://www.backpacker.com/news-and-events/news/rescue-of-the-week/paying-for-wilderness-search-and-rescue-private-cost-or-public-obligation/)

TL;DR - Even if you did charge people for rescuing them, chances are they simply wouldn't be able to pay, and then what? You are going to have to employ the help of collections, and the legal system to get them to pay?

I was going to quote the same article - and I agree with everything meme has said thus far too. everybody on here, twitter, whatever in an uproar saying they should be charged. Who are you to speak for the people volunteering their time, effort, safety, comfort and lives to do this? If they're so opposed to charging for rescue, then everybody bitching and moaning just needs to shut up and deal with it. When you decide to open up a SAR team, then you can charge if you see fit. it really is that simple. so sick and tired of people having an outcry about something that they have no zero knowledge over

*and on a side note, one article stated that their season passes had both been revoked - so they were penalized. on top of having to spend the night, in the dark, negative temps, avalanche territory, for over 12 hours, and no certainty of when rescue would come. that's punishment in itself. punishment for their own stupidity, yes, but punishment all the same

[Soundy]

I'm always confused as to why everyone complains about people skiing out of bounds and being rescued by S&R. I'm failing to see how it's any different from any other outdoor activity that might leave you needing S&R.
Because the out-of-bounds areas on ski hills are specifically marked that way for a reason. The hills put in the effort to clearly delineate them, so as opposed to someone who follows a hiking trail and gets turned around, these people are consciously bypassing a barrier put there as a warning.

[underscore]

So how is that any different from a snowmobiler getting stuck? Everything they do is "out of bounds", as is most hiking and snowshoeing done on public property. Skiing out of bounds is effectively the same as back country skiing, it's easier to do but still requires the same prep.

[Hondaracer]

id say it's pretty rare to have to rescue a snowmobiler besides being burried in an avalanche as they are always in groups.

guy we used to ride with near Whistler had a few friends blow their engines way out in the backcountry, there is a heli service in whistler which will come pick up your sled but not the rider for $1500 in the back country, essentially long-line your sled out and you need to double back out, which in a lot of places can be treacherous as fuck

[RRxtar]

there was a story in kelowna couple of years ago. a couple kids went out 4x4ing by themself, unprepared, in January or February. had to call COSAR to pick them up in the middle of the night. next day they went back up to retrieve their truck. guess what. solo and unprepared and got in trouble again and had to call COSAR again to bring them home again. two days in a row.


if i recall at the time COSAR said that was a poor use of their resources.

[Mancini]

North Shore Search and Rescue has said that people in need of rescue have actively avoided them because they think they're going to end up with the bill.

[westopher]

So how is that any different from a snowmobiler getting stuck? Everything they do is "out of bounds", as is most hiking and snowshoeing done on public property. Skiing out of bounds is effectively the same as back country skiing, it's easier to do but still requires the same prep.
The out of bounds near cypress, grouse and seymour is a lot of what I would call "full retard terrain."
So many cliff bands, creeks, shitty terrain and tight trees there is really no way you are getting down it properly.
The routes that people who know the backcountry take are much different than Johnny fratboy that just ducks a fence without knowing what the fuck is down below.
That said, I still think if someone is in danger, they should be saved, regardless of if they are an idiot for getting there or not. I'd bet all of NSSAR would agree with that.

[Ch28]

North Shore Search and Rescue has said that people in need of rescue have actively avoided them because they think they're going to end up with the bill.

I said it before and I'll say it again. If your life is in danger and you're actively avoiding rescue because you're scared of a bill then you deserve to die because you're nothing short of being a fucking moron.