[- kT]

hey guys. got a (possibly dumb?) question, hoping somebody here can shed some light. bit of a rundown first,

back about 8 years ago, I was in my first and only at fault accident. wrote the car off, was only at a -1 on the CRS scale at the time, so moved up 6 steps to a 55% (yikes, i know) surcharge. during that time while I was at a surcharge, I purchased and insured my genesis coupe. no at fault claims since, full stop. over time this surcharge obviously went down, and eventually went back to a discount. if you calculate it out, having passed 8 years, this would put me at -3 this year. makes sense so far. however, i also remember having a conversation with an ICBC rep shortly after my accident, where I recall her saying that despite being 6 steps up the surcharge ladder, after 3 years i'd be back at neutral - 0 discount and 0 surcharge in other words. so that would put me at -5 instead of -3, as 8 years total have elapsed, 3 of which count toward the surcharge, and 5 of which go towards the discount

i've recently purchased and insured a second car, an old beater that I was originally planning to drive only for the winter, but have since decided to hang onto long term. I renewed the insurance on it today, it's at a -35% discount (-7 in other words). I was inquiring on the genesis at the same time, as I will be putting insurance back on it in a month or two, and was told that the genesis insurance would be at -3 only.

here's where I'm confused - how is it that my 2 cars, both under my name as both the registered owner and principle operator, can have differing discounts? i'm asking for obvious reasons, as the genesis is obviously much more expensive to insure than my 93 civic, so with my CRS discount on the civic being at -7 / -35%, should the genesis not be the same?

my broker seemed to be under the impression that this was due to the genesis having an at fault claim on it (which it doesn't, however I did insure the genesis while my insurance premiums were at surcharge), but that doesn't make any sense to me. does this make sense to anyone else, and could anybody shed some light as to why my discounts are different on my two vehicles? is this an error on ICBC's end that I need to have rectified, or is there something i'm simply missing?

any help or guidance is much appreciated! thanks in advance revscene fam


**CRS scale for reference - http://www.icbc.com/autoplan/costs/Documents/crs.pdf **

[- kT]

i just did a claim history, and alongside my at fault accident back in 2010, i also found this from 4 years ago..

would this have anything to do with it? this is making less sense the more I look. the only claims I have on the genesis are from dec 2012 (rear ended not at fault) and october 2014 (comp claim, therefore also not at fault)

[cooke24]

so to make this simple..... the surcharge for the accident only applies to one policy.

your second policy will follow a discount on how many years you have driven.


i was in a similar situation, theres a slight loop hole if your smart about it.

say you get in a car accident and go up to 55% surcharge..

you have a $500 car handy insure that so the 55% surcharge will be placed on that policy.

then you go get your fancy car and insure that, at the discount of years driven.

cancel $500 policy.

upon renewal of fancy car policy the surchaged will be put on that policy. Cancel it.

insure $500 car to move the surcharge to the policy, then insure fancy car, then cancel insurance on $500 car.

[cooke24]

now if you call icbc and find out how much money you owe for the at fault claim 8 years ago you can pay that off to elimnate any surcharge to bring your account back to normal.

[Edison_Chen]

From what I heard.. like the previous person said, claims only attached to one vehicle/policy at a time.

The CRS discount is technically laid out like a timeline.


In your scenario, I'll make assumptions:
1. Assume you have your DL for at least 8 years
2. Both your cars would be insured at the same time.


1. By looking at the second vehicle, if there were no at fault claims, and if you have vehicle #1 still insured, then the second/third/fourth vehicles would be entitled to your full DL history.
2. If you only have the one vehicle/policy, then you will always be a few years behind until you reach CRS level -20(43%). It is possible to have different vehicles/policies with different CRS levels.
3. If you cancel the plate which has the claim affecting, the claim will move to either 1. a new plate you take out or 2. if its a more recent claim, it can move and affect on the renewal policy.

There are ways to avoid/trick the system, however ICBC can simply track what your doing and possibly do something about it.

[- kT]

so to make this simple..... the surcharge for the accident only applies to one policy.

your second policy will follow a discount on how many years you have driven.


i was in a similar situation, theres a slight loop hole if your smart about it.

say you get in a car accident and go up to 55% surcharge..

you have a $500 car handy insure that so the 55% surcharge will be placed on that policy.

then you go get your fancy car and insure that, at the discount of years driven.

cancel $500 policy.

upon renewal of fancy car policy the surchaged will be put on that policy. Cancel it.

insure $500 car to move the surcharge to the policy, then insure fancy car, then cancel insurance on $500 car.

that in itself is hugely helpful, i was unaware that a surcharge only falls onto one policy. i've never quite grasped that loophole, i've heard of it before, but never really grasped the concept. can you break that down for me into what i should be doing with my civic and genesis?

currently my genesis is insured for a storage policy only (so it's not plated), and my civic has basic + TP liability on it, at a -7 discount (shouldn't this already move the surcharge to the civic, as the genesis is now "uninsured", or is it because there's a storage policy on it?). when i go to insure the genesis again, it will be at -3 discount only (from what my broker said). so then what i should be doing is.. cancelling the insurance on the civic (so i have no insurance whatsoever on any car), and reinsuring the civic first (to place the surcharge onto the civic) and when i go to insure the genesis say the following day, the full DL history will apply on the genesis?

[BrokenEuro]

so to make this simple..... the surcharge for the accident only applies to one policy.

your second policy will follow a discount on how many years you have driven.


i was in a similar situation, theres a slight loop hole if your smart about it.

say you get in a car accident and go up to 55% surcharge..

you have a $500 car handy insure that so the 55% surcharge will be placed on that policy.

then you go get your fancy car and insure that, at the discount of years driven.

cancel $500 policy.

upon renewal of fancy car policy the surchaged will be put on that policy. Cancel it.

insure $500 car to move the surcharge to the policy, then insure fancy car, then cancel insurance on $500 car.

Would you need to get full comprehensive and collision, or is basic enough?

[- kT]

let me throw a wrench into this a bit more then, as it seems there's more than a handful of people here who know what they're talking about. the storage policy on the genesis is effective until march 5th. I reinsured my civic today for an additional 6 months, and did nothing with the policy on the genesis - so effective march 5th it is fully uninsured. does this mean the surcharge will automatically move to the civic on march 5th, and as long as I insure the genesis after march 5th, I will receive full DL history discount on the genesis instead of the civic?

second question alongside that would be - would the amount I paid for the 6 months on the civic then not be enough, as the discount would lessen? do I actually have to uninsure and reinsure the civic for this to take full effect?

I appreciate the help hugely guys, thanks again :D

[Edison_Chen]

let me throw a wrench into this a bit more then, as it seems there's more than a handful of people here who know what they're talking about. the storage policy on the genesis is effective until march 5th. I reinsured my civic today for an additional 6 months, and did nothing with the policy on the genesis - so effective march 5th it is fully uninsured. does this mean the surcharge will automatically move to the civic on march 5th, and as long as I insure the genesis after march 5th, I will receive full DL history discount on the genesis instead of the civic?

second question alongside that would be - would the amount I paid for the 6 months on the civic then not be enough, as the discount would lessen? do I actually have to uninsure and reinsure the civic for this to take full effect?

I appreciate the help hugely guys, thanks again :D


If you renewed your Civic today and the CRS on it is -7(35%), even if you wait until your storage expires, if you new plate the Genesis, the Genesis will pick up the at-fault claim. The reason is that the claim is 'dangling' and is waiting to get picked up on a new plate.

[- kT]

//

[JShifter]

now if you call icbc and find out how much money you owe for the at fault claim 8 years ago you can pay that off to elimnate any surcharge to bring your account back to normal.

hmmm I never knew that, I was under the impression that you needed to either choose one or the other during the time of the claim.

[XplicitLuder]

your question has me thinking.. lol i was at an at fault in 2011 which brought me to a +55% surcharge as well, eventuall the years passed now and im currently sitting at -25%, but i was told that they made a mistake when i got new plates for my new car, and next year theyre going to actually bring me back to either 15 or 20% lol :pokerface:

[- kT]

my at fault accident was in 2010, and i'm only back at -15% now, so if your at fault accident was a year after, you should only be at -10% this year. not a surcharge, but not -25% either. probably some overlap with having multiple cars insured?? in any case, you shouldn't be at +15%

[XplicitLuder]

my at fault accident was in 2010, and i'm only back at -15% now, so if your at fault accident was a year after, you should only be at -10% this year. not a surcharge, but not -25% either. probably some overlap with having multiple cars insured?? in any case, you shouldn't be at +15%

thing is i never had more than 1 car, they prob messed up in the plate changes (switch a lot and had custom as well) and i meant i would be at minus 15-20% oh well i got to have cheaper insurance for one year right ?? lol

[320icar]

Ok wait hold on guys. I'm so confused. I was in the same spot as you, went from -5% to +55% or something like that since I had an at fault accident.

BUT, after 3 years you go back to what you were. So sure for 3 years I was paying out the ass but then it went back down. Not only that, but I believe you still accumulate the % discount every year when you're on surcharge.

Why after 8 years are you still paying for that accident

[Port Man]

did not read other than first... so if it hasn't already been talked about, from my understanding the 3 years back to 0 discount only applies if you are off the road for those 3 years... so no cars insured under your name. Otherwise you just go back down 5 percent a year from highest surcharge

[vyrospec]

Just taking a look in your situation. It sounds like you should be eligible for either -20% or 25% for your Genesis. I have a feeling its something to do with ICBC's internal CRS system being unable to pick up extra discount that you're suppose to have.

When you insured for your Civic for the -7/-35%, (which should not have affected by previous claims as you have been paying of the claims via the Genesis' insurance) did your broker call in ICBC to check for your double check your record for the the proper discount?

[320icar]

did not read other than first... so if it hasn't already been talked about, from my understanding the 3 years back to 0 discount only applies if you are off the road for those 3 years... so no cars insured under your name. Otherwise you just go back down 5 percent a year from highest surcharge

I always has 1 or 2 cars insured for the three years, and it went back to what it was prior to accidents.

[Kayci]

hmmm I never knew that, I was under the impression that you needed to either choose one or the other during the time of the claim.

I think you (usually) have to do it within 1 year of the claim date / accident.

[- kT]

Just taking a look in your situation. It sounds like you should be eligible for either -20% or 25% for your Genesis. I have a feeling its something to do with ICBC's internal CRS system being unable to pick up extra discount that you're suppose to have.

When you insured for your Civic for the -7/-35%, (which should not have affected by previous claims as you have been paying of the claims via the Genesis' insurance) did your broker call in ICBC to check for your double check your record for the the proper discount?

that's what I thought as well. regardless of surcharge amount I was told that after 3 years it'd reset back to 0. meaning I should be at least -4 on the Genesis now. is it worth calling customer service myself and inquiring? will I get anywhere, or is it better done through a broker?

[320icar]

Brokers are useless. Call icbc yourself and discuss with them (tgen go to a broker to adjust the insurance)

[cooke24]

You can only be in surcharge for 3 years. It then resets to 0.

It's tricky and possible

Remove all policy's , then start with the civic then the Genesis

[bcrdukes]

Waiting for CRS to chime in.

[cooke24]

And sometimes this doesn't work at all and they send you a correction in the mail instructing you to go back to auto plan to
Fix it.

[cooke24]

that's what I thought as well. regardless of surcharge amount I was told that after 3 years it'd reset back to 0. meaning I should be at least -4 on the Genesis now. is it worth calling customer service myself and inquiring? will I get anywhere, or is it better done through a broker?



Ahh I know about this too.

Everybody has a special date where the new year for discount applies. (Typically your birthday) if you insure a car before this special date you won't get the extra 5 percent, unless you go back after the date and do a 1 time only policy date change.

Icbc needs all the money they can get especially right now. The broker must know what he's doing, but with my recent experience a lot of the best brokers have moved on and now the new ones have no idea what your talking about. Most just sea with renewals or new plates.

Try importing cars from Japan or seized us customs cars they stare at you like your doing something shady

[cooke24]

did not read other than first... so if it hasn't already been talked about, from my understanding the 3 years back to 0 discount only applies if you are off the road for those 3 years... so no cars insured under your name. Otherwise you just go back down 5 percent a year from highest surcharge

This is incorrect. Doesn't matter how much surcharge your paying after 3 years it goes back to 0. If your driving during those 3 years it goes down 5% every year until the 3rd

[underscore]

Find a decent broker willing to check things in their system to know for sure, but if you're gonna insure both at the same time you want to insure the cheaper vehicle first (in this case your Civic). If you transfer your Civic insurance to your Genesis you'll likely get the worse discount back on the Genesis (since it's the only policy attached to you), so you'll likely have to cancel and reinsure or renew the Civic insurance, then insure the Genesis. Depending on when your Civic insurance expires this may or may not be worth doing when you want to plate the Genesis.

If you're on monthly with the Civic cancel it just before the end of a month (payment month, not calendar) or you won't get as much back. If not just put shorter term (3 or 6 month) insurance on the Genesis so that it expires before the Civic needs renewal.

[- kT]

just got off the phone with icbc. what the lady said was that there was an error a few years ago where I was apparently getting -5 on the Genesis.. ? and this is why the Genesis will only be at -3 on next renewal. that makes absolutely zero sense to me, so is she saying that because they made an error I am now getting affected by it? I don't remember a time when I was ever getting -5 on the Genesis either

[cho]

I was under the impression that after 3 years my surcharge would be down to 0%
However that is incorrect and you just go down the steps normally.

My brz is only at -25 after all these years =(

[BrokenEuro]

That is ridiculous. I had an at fault accident at 25% discount. Was told I would go back down to 0% for 3 years (0, -5, -10). By the end of the 3rd year I would jump back to my original discount of -25%. This is what I was told. From what I'm hearing I will have to work my way back down? If so I am going to try the two policy technique..

[TouringTeg]

This thread hurts my head lol

Just to add to the discussion I had a hanging claim situation. When I was 16 I had an at fault accident in my father's car. I didn't own or insure a car at the time so the claim attached to my father's policy (plates). Eventually my father got a new car with new plates. He sold the old car, cancelled the policy and turned in the plates.

The claim was then hanging. The next person (my father or I) to start or renew a policy would have the claim attach to it. Unlucky for me I renewed my insurance and it attached to my plate. I bought a second car with new plates and had full discount on it.

Sold my first car with less of a discount and turned in the plates. Claim was hanging again. My dad renewed his insurance and it reattached to his policy. It's been so many years now it doesn't matter but it was quite the learning experience.

[6o4__boi]

This thread hurts my head lol

Just to add to the discussion I had a hanging claim situation. When I was 16 I had an at fault accident in my father's car. I didn't own or insure a car at the time so the claim attached to my father's policy (plates). Eventually my father got a new car with new plates. He sold the old car, cancelled the policy and turned in the plates.

The claim was then hanging. The next person (my father or I) to start or renew a policy would have the claim attach to it. Unlucky for me I renewed my insurance and it attached to my plate. I bought a second car with new plates and had full discount on it.

Sold my first car with less of a discount and turned in the plates. Claim was hanging again. My dad renewed his insurance and it reattached to his policy. It's been so many years now it doesn't matter but it was quite the learning experience.

i had the exact same thing happen to me
the dumb thing was ICBC never actually told me there was a claim that was doing this until i noticed it several years later

called and they bumbled their way explaining it until one knowledgeable person finally put it in understandable terms.

[TouringTeg]

I had no idea that is how it worked either until it attached to my policy many years later and I was like WTF. That is when the agent explained it to me.

Also who remembers the good old days of receiving 10% extra discount per year instead of 5%!

[Speed2K]

Unless it has changed recently, whether you were at a discount position or a surcharge position, before your most recent at fault accident, this should determine whether you go to 0 or your previous discount level, after 3 years of being claims free. This is called the Base Rate or Recovery Rule.

To the OP, call ICBC again and ask why the Recovery Rule wouldn't apply to you?

Can't find a newer version, but refer to the bottom of page 3 here:

http://www.bcuc.com/Documents/Proceedings/2007/DOC_16264_C3-7_exerpt-web-page.pdf

Good luck with ICBC.

[H.Specter]

just got off the phone with icbc. what the lady said was that there was an error a few years ago where I was apparently getting -5 on the Genesis.. ? and this is why the Genesis will only be at -3 on next renewal. that makes absolutely zero sense to me, so is she saying that because they made an error I am now getting affected by it? I don't remember a time when I was ever getting -5 on the Genesis either

This is odd because from the start of the thread, you've had the same situation as me...they gave me the same answer.

The "dangling claim" did not attach with our Genesis and we were given a "freebie". It didn't attach because of somehow our policies were cancelled/reinsured. So now that we insured our "civic", the dangling claim attached to it. I'm still confused because I thought I paid off the 3 year surcharge already...

[XplicitLuder]

just got off the phone with icbc. what the lady said was that there was an error a few years ago where I was apparently getting -5 on the Genesis.. ? and this is why the Genesis will only be at -3 on next renewal. that makes absolutely zero sense to me, so is she saying that because they made an error I am now getting affected by it? I don't remember a time when I was ever getting -5 on the Genesis either

this is what i was posting on my post. THEY made an error and gave me more discount, and now theyre taking me back a few spots to "correct" THEIR error , like wtf ? not my fault lol

[Edison_Chen]

Omg 😲..

ICBC just posted this on their website about how rating the CRS will be changed in 2018.

ICBC increases fairness of basic insurance rates (http://www.icbc.com/about-icbc/newsroom/Pages/2017-Mar3-01.aspx)

http://www.icbc.com/about-icbc/newsroom/Documents/changes-how%20at-fault-crashes-affect-premiums.pdf

[fliptuner]

What a fucking joke. You lose 11 CRS if your maxed out at -20 and there's still a CRS cap. Meanwhile, -17 ends up at the same discount. Bullshit

[TouringTeg]

Here is the new CRS chart effective May 6th 2018: http://www.icbc.com/autoplan/costs/Documents/crs-chart.pdf

20 year safe drivers now go down 11 steps instead of 3! Instead of 3 accidents and still keep 43% discount you would go to 15% discount after the 2nd accident.

[fliptuner]

Soooo....How is this fair for anyone who's been accident free for 20+ years?

How is it logical that someone with a higher discount, drops more levels than someone with a lower one?

[freakshow]

this is BS. it makes me want to have a car crashing party for all lvl 20s.

I would be ok with this change if the penalty for crashing increases, the benefit for being accident free should also increase.

This new system makes no sense.. after level 15, there is no incentive to keep building levels, they should literally just cap it at level 15.. what difference does it make?

edit: just saw a post for reporting fraud to ICBC.. I think I'm going to report the new CRS scale as fraud :troll:
http://www.icbc.com/about-icbc/Pages/fraud.aspx

[- kT]

noticed this in one of the articles - "In addition, just like today, customers who cause a crash will regain their previous discount if they go three consecutive years without being responsible for a crash."

note regain their previous discount. does that mean that 3 years after an at fault crash, you not only lose the surcharge but go back to whatever your discount was at prior to the at fault crash?