[Acura604]

wow, wtf is going on with the aviation industry....check out the insane videos in the link. W T F.



Passenger Forcibly Removed From United Flight, Prompting Outcry : The Two-Way : NPR (http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/04/10/523275494/passenger-forcibly-removed-from-united-flight-prompting-outcry)

Passengers on a United flight from Chicago to Louisville, Ky., were horrified when a man was forcibly removed — violently wrenched from his seat and physically dragged down the aisle — to clear a seat for airline staff.

United has not responded to NPR's requests for comment, but on Twitter, a representative of the airline said the flight in question was "overbooked" and that "one customer refused to leave."

"This is an upsetting event to all of us here at United," company CEO Oscar Munoz said in a statement. He said the airline is conducting a "detailed review" of what happened and reaching out to the passenger in question.

Multiple videos and photos were posted on social media, and other passengers described the incident online — at first upset about the delay, and then horrified by the violent turn of events.

Witnesses say passengers had already boarded on Sunday evening at O'Hare International Airport when United asked for volunteers to take another flight the next day to make room for four United staff members who needed seats.

The airline offered $400 and a free hotel, passenger Audra D. Bridges told the Louisville Courier-Journal. When no one volunteered, the offer was doubled to $800. When there were still no bites, the airline selected four passengers to leave the flight — including the man in the video and his wife.

"They told him he had been selected randomly to be taken off the flight," Bridges said on Facebook. She said there was no incident involving the man until he was told to give up his seat.

The man said he was a doctor, and that he "needed to work at the hospital the next day," passenger Jayse Anspach said on Twitter.

"He said he wasn't going to [get off the plane]," Bridges wrote on Facebook. "He was talking to his lawyer on the phone."

Then United brought in the police.

Both Bridges and Anspach posted videos of three law enforcement officers, who appear to be wearing the uniforms of Chicago aviation police, wrenching the man out of his seat, prompting wails. His face appeared to strike an armrest. Then they dragged his limp body down the aisle.

[6o4__boi]

lol damn, i know United doesn't exactly set the bar high for customer service but this is on a whole new low

$800? :fuckthatshit:
should've manned up to their dumbass overbooking mistake and kept raising the compensation, problem avoided.

[Infiniti]

Provided I didn't have any pressing business, I would've taken the $800 bucks and the next flight. Was given a similar offer a few years ago by Air Canada for a flight I was on, but had to refuse because I really needed to be back.

[pastarocket]

I think that passenger is definitely gonna call his lawyer to sue United and the Chicago PD. :fuckthatshit:

[IMASA]

The flight wasn't overbooked, UA had 4 employees that had to work at the next stop. Rather than send them via train/bus/rental car, they chose to kick 4 passengers off.
They should have raised the compensation and kept raising it until someone took it.

I was a on a UA flight from Chicago to Burlington and they were offering $300USD for someone to get off. It went as high as $1200USD until finally someone took the deal. I was tempted, but had to make it to my destination for systems training.

UA says a "computer" would randomly select who would be kicked off. I'd like to see this computer program and know if 1st class/business class passengers are included in the selection process. I wouldn't be surprised if they selected those who paid the least for their seats.

Lastly, this is what the asshat CEO had to say "..I apologize for having to re-accommodate these customers...". Re-accommodate is the new word for beat and drag your ass off the plane.

[CCA-Dave]

Yup, simple solution keep raising the compensation.

Involving airport police to assault a passenger and remove them from the flight is a ridiculously short-sighted way to deal with the 'problem'. I'm sure the viral advertising they're getting from all this is well worth the lack of investment to bump the seat offer.

[Armind]

Make murica great again

[Mr.HappySilp]

LOL so many evidence and the airline have no right to kick someone off and not to mention they decided to kick a doctor off. They are going to end up paying millions to this guy. I mean I could easily say coz of this incident My arm, neck is in pain constantly and therefore I can not work.

If they overbook with passenger then yes is stupid and they should really bump people up to business class/first class. If it is for their employee then to bad so said the employee in question can
A. Be a flight attendant for that flight and leave the other 4 flight attendant off
B. The 4 flight attendant can wait till the next flight.

This is going to cause them a lot lol.

[Ferra]

i used to think Air Canada service is one of the worst.......but after taking a few UA flight...i realize AC is actually not too bad :lol


And I am surprised they rather deals with all the delays, calling the cops and forcibly remove passengers instead of upping their puny $800 compensation.
I am sure someone would volunteer if they up the compensation to $1-2K.
That's chump change compare to all delays, bad press and lawyer fees they'd have to deal with later.

30min extra delay probably costs them more than $1-$2K in wasted wages and fuels anyway.

[Gerbs]

UA says a "computer" would randomly select who would be kicked off. I'd like to see this computer program and know if 1st class/business class passengers are included in the selection process. I wouldn't be surprised if they selected those who paid the least for their seats.


Why would they kick out first-class / business, it makes no sense financially.

[pastarocket]

Funny tweets. :lawl:


Nick Jack Pappas
(@Pappiness)


Look on the bright side, United Airlines. After this incident, you'll never have to worry about a flight being overbooked again.


Marian
(@msanborn)


Pepsi: We are the most hated company right now. �� United Airlines: 1 sec - Hold my Pepsi. #PEPSI #unitedAIRLINES

[CCA-Dave]

So the incident must have been on the last flight of the night (or very close to it), as the compensation offer included a hotel room and taking a flight the next day.

The way they dealt with it seems absolutely ridiculous, but thinking about it I realized that this is exactly what happens when you don't empower employees to to make reasonable decisions, even if there is a cost involved. Guaranteed there is a maximum compensation offer a gate agent is allowed to give, without approval from a higher level employee. Given the time of day, they probably weren't able to reach anyone and followed through with the only option they had available to them.

[freakshow]

I've been bumped on a UA flight as well.. their overbooking algorithms really suck, but their CS is even worse.
I had to be in SF for a wedding on Sat, taking a fri night flight. Booked months in advance, and they basically just took my seat away and told me i'll get on the next plane on Sat afternoon. I hadn't boarded yet, so it's not as bad as being physically dragged off the plane.. but i was pretty pissed

[shawnly1000]

United Airlines Passenger Removed From Flight: Just Kill Me | Time.com (http://time.com/4733552/united-airlines-chicago-passenger-removed-just-kill-me/)

[hud 91gt]

An airline has every right to kick anyone off a flight as though they seem appropriate. Obviously this is a interesting occurrence, maybe not handled properly. Maybe were not seeing the whole story.

Remember, the cookie pushers are their for your safety. If they see someone not cooperating it is their right to have you removed.

This goes if your drunk, uncooperative, mentally unstable... There is varying degrees.

From what the article says I in no way agree with their tactics but I can guarentee that is not the whole story. If police were required to be onboard to remove the passenger... Even if a seat opened up he would be tossed off. Last thing you need on an airplane 6 miles in the sky is pissed off uncooperative passenger with no where to go.

Remember this the next time your being an ass hat on a flight.

I should add I do not agree with the overbooking of flights all airlines are doing these days (even Westjet), but it is a business with tight margins. All I can say is id hate to a customer service agent or a flight attendant. People are stressed as it is when travelling, now toss a wrench into it. Yikes.



As for thr comment about the algorithm which picks passengers. I dont know how it works personally but I'm betting it is a hell of a lot more complex then you think. Whether this is your final destination, number of alternate flights, travelling alone, overnight required? All this information is in the system and I can almost guarantee its taken into consideration.

[shawnly1000]

http://i.imgur.com/TKLs9lo.jpg

[IMASA]

Not sure if this is legit, but this was posted on reddit

"Before the flight started they were offering 150 bucks in vouchers to anyone who would get bumped but the next flight wasn't until the next day at about 3 in the afternoon.
After we got on the plane, I was zone 3, they raised it to four hundred dollars. About ten minutes later they raised it to 800. At this point the plane was completely boarded. Then the stewardess came on and basically told us this plane was not moving until four people got off, they said they needed it for four United employees (who I later noticed were two stewardesses and two pilots).
About ten minutes later (30 minutes after we should have left) the manager came on with a clipboard and told this gentleman in the video that he payed the lowest and had to get off the flight. He said absolutely not, he wasn't screaming but I could hear him as it was a small flight.
She shuffled around for a bit then talked to him again, this was the point when someone offered her 1600 and she laughed at him, then she told the asian guy that he was going to get physically removed.
She called security, then one guy showed up who didn't look like police to me. He talked to him (much more calmly than the manager) but with no luck. The guy wasn't budging, said he was a doctor and had to go to work early in the morning. The guys backup came, a cop and a plainclothes, and then the video starts. They knock him around and drag him out.
At this point I think everything is over, but about ten minutes later he comes running back in with a bloody mouth saying that he had to get back home over and over, I think he was concussed.
The employees asked us all to get off the plane so they could handle the situation. We went back into the terminal. They somehow get him into a wheelchair and put him in an ambulance. They cleaned the blood out of the plane and put us back on about an hour after we got off. Then they sent us on our way, friendly skies huh"

[Manic!]

Confused how the guy got back on the plane after he was removed.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Not sure if this is legit, but this was posted on reddit

All of this and took 2 and a half hour. They could have easily just let the 4 FA board the flight next day. I mean if they know this isn't going anywhere either up the compensation or just let everyone boarded fly. What they offer is peanuts lol. Heck if they want me to give up my seats they better start with at least $1k and bump me to first/business class for the next flight otherwise I am staying where on the plane.

[hud 91gt]

All of this and took 2 and a half hour. They could have easily just let the 4 FA board the flight next day. I mean if they know this isn't going anywhere either up the compensation or just let everyone boarded fly. What they offer is peanuts lol. Heck if they want me to give up my seats they better start with at least $1k and bump me to first/business class for the next flight otherwise I am staying where on the plane.

Oh you mean dont let the crew members on board. So they don't show for your Chicago to LA flight putting 186 people in a hotel for a night?

That makes a lot of sense. As much as you think an airline is just trying to screw you, it is a game of what is going to disturb shit the least. Think about it

[Great68]

. As much as you think an airline is just trying to screw you, it is a game of what is going to disturb shit the least.

If that was true they wouldn't overbook flights in the first place.
THAT practice should be illegal.

[hud 91gt]

I heard a statistic that 5-10 percent of passengers dont show for a flight. Whether thats due to their own doing or other logistics. That is an airlines bottom line profit. Generally speaking, it doesnt cause an issue. When it does they offer incentives. When that doesnt work... Well I guess they need to re-evaluate. Its a complex calculated risk. Hell, life is. If it was a constant issue, they wouldnt do it..

[Great68]

That is an airlines bottom line profit.

So THAT'S what's most important here!

[freakshow]

Of course they need to get their staff to the destination. But the solution isn't to have police drag people off. Someone said above, keep upping the offer, someone will take it eventually.
If you have to give away 1500 per seat, sorry, if you're going to overbook, you sometimes take a hit.

[hud 91gt]

So THAT'S what's most important here!

??
Yes. Its a business. If its not making money it doesnt exist.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Oh you mean dont let the crew members on board. So they don't show for your Chicago to LA flight putting 186 people in a hotel for a night?

That makes a lot of sense. As much as you think an airline is just trying to screw you, it is a game of what is going to disturb shit the least. Think about it

To the air lines that might be it. But to me. I am going to miss my train, a day less vacation, have to get back home and come again the next day (or if you are away have to get hotel for the night), have my plans screw up and if I have connecting flights I miss those too and therefore screw up my trip even more. Not to mention if I pre prchase tickets for concerts, trains then it gets all screw up coz the airline over book. So no I don't have a shit about the airline since they don't have a shit about us.

If they care they should not overbook or up their compensation till someone who is willing to give up their seats. Forcing someone off is not the way to go.

[hud 91gt]

Of course they need to get their staff to the destination. But the solution isn't to have police drag people off. Someone said above, keep upping the offer, someone will take it eventually.
If you have to give away 1500 per seat, sorry, if you're going to overbook, you sometimes take a hit.

Exactly. That is where I am saying we are not seeing the whole story.

As I said before though, if you are argumentative or confrontational to airline staff it is not going to get you anywhere. If you are being difficult I wouldn't expect it to go your way. The industry has seen its fair share of nutcases in the past while. Airlines take safety very seriously.

Just like at your home, a restaurant or your own vehicle. It isnt anyones right to be on board except the owner. You can be asked to leave. If police were required to remove your presence, I think that is probably your own wrong doing despite if you feel you are in the right. Get off, yell, sue, call the police... Do whatever you feel is right. But you wont be on the airplane.

[StylinRed]

united is horrible, just like air canada rouge... my flight was delayed by 4hrs, i had it setup so that they would notify me by phone if there were changes to my flight, i didn't get notified, arrived at the airport 3hrs early... and i got a $15.00 voucher for my troubles -_- couldve had several more hours of fun :/

[bcrdukes]

I would consider this more of an isolated incident than the norm, however, it is evident that UA did not handle this situation very well, during and after the incident.

AC & UA have been good to me, so I will continue to do business with them.

[hud 91gt]

To the air lines that might be it. But to me. I am going to miss my train, a day less vacation, have to get back home and come again the next day (or if you are away have to get hotel for the night), have my plans screw up and if I have connecting flights I miss those too and therefore screw up my trip even more. Not to mention if I pre prchase tickets for concerts, trains then it gets all screw up coz the airline over book. So no I don't have a shit about the airline since they don't have a shit about us.

If they care they should not overbook or up their compensation till someone who is willing to give up their seats. Forcing someone off is not the way to go.
Yes.

Now do that to 186 people. Think before you speak.

[hud 91gt]

Alright .. Tuning out. This is sidetracking me from my day working on the car.

[Great68]

??
Yes. Its a business. If its not making money it doesnt exist.

You just said that they try to "disturb shit the least", which is contradictory if you admit their "bottom line" comes first.

It's a bunch of bullshit anyways. If a passenger no-shows at the last minute they don't get a refund, so these Airline fuckers are just trying to double dip fares at the passengers' expense.

Not acceptable.

[twitchyzero]

Oh you mean dont let the crew members on board. So they don't show for your Chicago to LA flight putting 186 people in a hotel for a night?



is that somehow the beaten victim's fault?

i'm not doubting there could be more to this story (don't understand why else they would've gotten violent), but at the end of the day this is 100% on the airline.

[hud 91gt]

Ok one last reply.


Airline fares are competitive. If they have to double dip, because the other airline is doing the same... Well guess what is going to happen. We all want $200 trips to Mexico in the winter. This is what comes from it.

Yes, disturbing shit the least is correct. If you look at it in black in white, an airline might as well not fly. Crews get sick, airplanes break, passengers have medical emergencies... The logistics of an airline is way deeper then the average person thinks about. Its all calculated and someone up top is taking the risk.

Disturbing shit the least not only helps the overall passenger, it also saves the company money. Business remember.

And yes, its probably to screw the passenger who is paying their salary.

[hud 91gt]

is that somehow the beaten victim's fault?

i'm not doubting there could be more to this story (don't understand why else they would've gotten violent), but at the end of the day this is 100% on the airline.

That looks like the police to me.

I'm assuming the pour soul who wouldn't get off the airplane felt it was his right to be on there. Its not. He wouldnt listen. He didnt even listen when police were on board. As I said, deal with it off the plane, because he isnt going...

But yes, the problem stems from the airlines over booking procedures. I dont think this happens everyday.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Yes.

Now do that to 186 people. Think before you speak.

The other 186 people is not my problem. That's the airline fault for overbooking. So they can up the compensation till someone gives up their seats or give the 4FA take a private jet/another airline,train etc etc and eat the cost so next time they don't do it again.

Not my fault United overbook and are too cheap to give out compensation. They did this to themselves.

[freakshow]

Exactly. That is where I am saying we are not seeing the whole story.

As I said before though, if you are argumentative or confrontational to airline staff it is not going to get you anywhere. If you are being difficult I wouldn't expect it to go your way. This is where we disagree. I think we are seeing the whole story.
If you started the argument, then you should be kicked off. But if the airline is trying to kick you off because of their own fault, and you refuse to move, that's their fault, not yours. They literally could have solved this problem with another $800 voucher.

[hud 91gt]

I do agree. But once again just because you bought a ticket doesnt mean you own that seat. I'm not defending the airlines actions at all, just trying to broaden the insight people see on the industry. Just like mrhappyslip, peoples views are generally very narrow.

$1000 woukd have been peanuts compared to the damage the media is causing, the 2.5 hour delay (remember half those people on the flight were probably connecting passenger which may have missed their connection).

[Oshiguru]

Reading some of the comments on reddit, it's laughable what united does with their vouchers. One person said they got multiple $50 vouchers, one voucher allowed per flight, expires in a year, and they can't use it for "popular" flight paths/times.

[Great68]

This guy refusing to move, right or wrong, got us all talking about this overbooking issue and how airlines handled this situation.

The sentiment among the general public right now is that United Airlines done fucked up, and hopefully this incident brings about change.

I seem to recall another incident in history where a passenger refused to move, which sparked ALL sorts of change in society...

[GLOW]

I would consider this more of an isolated incident than the norm, however, it is evident that UA did not handle this situation very well, during and after the incident.

AC & UA have been good to me, so I will continue to do business with them.

that's b/c you probably don't sit in the fight club seats, too mainstream. Kappa

[AzNightmare]

I'm a bit unclear on the situation (and possibly how flight arrangement work). I thought if regular passengers don't show up for their flights, there's passengers on standby that can take those empty seats?

But how do you literally have too many people actually enter the plane so that people have to be removed from the seats? Don't they do a count of how many seats they have available and let in that same amount of passengers through the gates?

[Dragon-88]

Also why does it have to be a random generated selection for removal, why not just remove the last 4 people who bought tickets last.. I mean If I had planned months in advance for a flight only to get randomly selected for removal, I would be pretty irate.

I wish I got randomly selected for upgrades more often... like that would happen.

[Great68]

Also why does it have to be a random generated selection for removal, why not just remove the last 4 people who bought tickets last.. I mean If I had planned months in advance for a flight only to get randomly selected for removal, I would be pretty irate.


Many people are questioning the "randomness" of the system, and thinking it biases towards people who paid less for their tickets which usually means those who booked well in advance.

[Presto]

Their random generated seat selector is the same random generator that happens to always luck-out on choosing a brown person for screening.

[Eff-1]

I'm not defending the airlines actions at all

yeah you are :pokerface:

[syee]

I'm a bit unclear on the situation (and possibly how flight arrangement work). I thought if regular passengers don't show up for their flights, there's passengers on standby that can take those empty seats?

But how do you literally have too many people actually enter the plane so that people have to be removed from the seats? Don't they do a count of how many seats they have available and let in that same amount of passengers through the gates?

I think someone mentioned it earlier, but the "extra passengers" were flight crew that needed to get to their next destination, so they weren't pre-booked passengers.

Nobody likes being bumped on a flight, but overbooking is becoming pretty commonplace with the razor thin margins that the airlines run on. I'd say about 1/3 of the flights I take are overbooked and in reality, they have to do this to some extent to make sure that they maximize their earning potential for each flight. Plenty of business travelers, especially passengers with status on the airline or higher fare classes can cancel/reschedule with very little notice leaving them with little to no revenue for a now empty seat. It's a gamble for the airlines, but ultimately, they got to be prepared to pay if they're taking the gamble of overbooking.

However, they way they handled this situation was terrible - especially when the problem could have been solved with money. It blows my mind that they'd elect to forcibly remove a passenger than throw more money at a problem until it's solved. There's absolutely no upside that can come out of getting cops to drag someone out of a plane.

[SkunkWorks]

As other have alluded to, reason why the flight was overbooked is because airlines typically sell +10% of capacity due to no shows and last minute cancellations.

I know this to be true for AC. I'd presume WestJet would use the same metric.

[Gnomes]

Ted explains the science of overbooking:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFNstNKgEDI

Its a game they play. Sometimes (most times) the house win, and sometimes the house lose. If they lose, they better make damn sure they can pay up appropriately.



And below is an interesting video explaining economics of airline - how majority of their profit are from business class. Economy class are just there to fill up space. They will NEVER bump business or 1st class.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzB5xtGGsTc

[freakshow]

I'm confused as to why they let everyone board, and THEN asked for people to get off. Like I said, I've been bumped on a flight before when I had booked my ticket well in advance, however, at least they did it while we were waiting to board. If the staff needed to get to their destination, you would think that they knew about that before they let people on the plane..

[syee]

I'm confused as to why they let everyone board, and THEN asked for people to get off. Like I said, I've been bumped on a flight before when I had booked my ticket well in advance, however, at least they did it while we were waiting to board. If the staff needed to get to their destination, you would think that they knew about that before they let people on the plane..

They're trying to not piss people off by bumping someone off prematurely. They have to assign passengers that are physically there a seat at some point before boarding starts so they'll assign the seats with the hope that they'll get a last minute cancellation or a missed connection that will free up some seats before the doors close.

You're right though - they know that these 4 staff need to get to the next destination, and that an entire flight is dependent on their arrival - those seats should have been pre-assigned to these staff before anyone else. That way, at least if someone gets bumped, it'll be during check in rather than when they're sitting in their seat on the plane.

[Great68]

leaving them with little to no revenue for a now empty seat.

Well no, they still get the original fare paid for the seat for a no show.
They overbook because they want to make money twice on those empty seats.

[jackmeister]

damn, the Asian doctor passenger got messed up. Hopefully he'll be fully compensated and treated fairly at American Airlines or something, because United sucked shit before and it isn't getting any better.

[freakshow]

They have to assign passengers that are physically there a seat at some point before boarding starts so they'll assign the seats with the hope that they'll get a last minute cancellation or a missed connection that will free up some seats before the doors close. They don't have to. This happened to me. My ticket said 'see gate agent', and they kept saying that they'll get assign me a seat shortly. eventually, my wife and I were the only ones at the terminal, and they just said, sorry, we're full.

[underscore]

Seeing how far this apparently escalated I wouldn't be surprised if there was some other reason they wanted him off that plane. And it may be a United flight but that doesn't mean they're the only ones that can take someone off a plane.

Not to sound too tinfoil hat here, but if you're removing a person from an airplane you're going to tell the remaining passengers that the reason was something as mundane sounding as possible, you're not going to come on the PA and go "sorry about that folks, we found out the FAA screwed up and let a wanted person on our flight, but it's all fixed now"

I should add I do not agree with the overbooking of flights all airlines are doing these days (even Westjet).

It's nothing new, 15+ years ago my parents racked up a ton of travel credits because we volunteered to get bumped to the next flight 3 times in a row on our way back from LA.

If a passenger no-shows at the last minute they don't get a refund, so these Airline fuckers are just trying to double dip fares at the passengers' expense.

Wouldn't you? They're a business and they have competitors, if your competitors are doing something which saves them money then you're going to do the same thing.

[syee]

Well no, they still get the original fare paid for the seat for a no show.
They overbook because they want to make money twice on those empty seats.

They don't always have the opportunity to collect twice on a "no show". There are different classes of fares that can be canceled or changed without penalty. High tier frequent fliers also have the ability to cancel or change their itinerary without penalty. Also, delayed connections would mean they don't get any revenue for that seat if left empty. They don't always get to collect twice. The only time they'd collect twice is if the fare class doesn't allow any cancellation or changes. (and in those cases, they'll usually let them rebook with a penalty)

They don't have to. This happened to me. My ticket said 'see gate agent', and they kept saying that they'll get assign me a seat shortly. eventually, my wife and I were the only ones at the terminal, and they just said, sorry, we're full.

Yes, that's generally a sign of an overbooked flight (if it doesn't already tell you during check in). Again, they're trying to wait until the last minute for someone not to show up so they can get the seat filled by the oversold customers. Again, it sucks to be the one bumped, but the airlines should do something to make it right if they're going to play the game of overbooking. Simple gestures like upgrading you to first class on the next available flight or giving travel credits goes a long way to keeping people happy.

[hud 91gt]

I'm a bit unclear on the situation (and possibly how flight arrangement work). I thought if regular passengers don't show up for their flights, there's passengers on standby that can take those empty seats?

But how do you literally have too many people actually enter the plane so that people have to be removed from the seats? Don't they do a count of how many seats they have available and let in that same amount of passengers through the gates?
You are right, and it brings up some interesting things to think about. My best guess is it was a computer error, or a human error.

I believe, when boarding the gate agent checks your ticket to your name, they also check the seat assignment matches your ticket. Could be the system double booked the seat, or could be as simple as the gate agent not checking properly.

Once the man was in the seat, it would make his feelings that it is "His seat" even stronger. Sounds like a fun situation to deal with.



Generally speaking, crews are always booked ahead of time on a confirmed seat. Obviously if it is a last minute change things could get double booked, but they will still be confirmed. This is dealt with before people have boarded. Whether or not you have a seat assignment on your ticket or not, you could be booted off. Getting people off an airplane once boarded is a last resort and would only happen due to some other error. Things change fast in the industry, and the people making the decisions are literally making split second decisions. It is possible there was a major change somewhere which required this crew to be on THAT plane NOW causing a last minute booking when passengers were already on board? Who know's they are all assumptions. There is a position within the airlines which literally deals with putting out fires like these all day, hopefully without starting much of another one. I don't admire those jobs.




All of this brings me back to an article I read a couple weeks ago. It was about a passenger being denied boarding due to the fact they were wearing leggings and the gate agent denied them for being inappropriately dressed. Passengers saw the conversation, recorded it then sent to the local media. It's all over the news.

Little did they know, the passenger was an employee, using standby employee passes. The companies employee pass policy clearly states its dress code, and the employee was not following it. There was nothing wrong with what the gate agent was doing.... The general public with a lack of knowledge? Better call Trudeau, because that is harassment!

Don't judge until you have all the information, the news is a joke.



yeah you are :pokerface:

Maybe I should rephrase. I'm not defending the airline in this particular instance. I do not agree with any airlines overbooking. From what I read on the article, it's much too simplistic to make any real judgement of what went wrong. I'll defend the airlines against naive opinions when someone clearly doesn't understand how an airline runs. As I said before, i'm trying to inform.

[Acura604]

From CNN


What about the crew members?

The four crew members did indeed board the plane, and it wasn't pretty, Bridges said. Passengers berated them, told them they should be ashamed of themselves and embarrassed to work for this company.
"They just sat down quietly, it was super tense on the plane. Everyone was really unhappy after seeing this man pulled off," he said.
"I think United messed this up on the front end," Bridges added. "It shouldn't have gotten to the point where there's a man on the plane or four people on the plane that have to be removed after they've already taken their seat. If they were overbooked they should have only let people on the plane that were going to be able to leave on the plane."

[Y2K_o__o]

Provided I didn't have any pressing business, I would've taken the $800 bucks and the next flight. Was given a similar offer a few years ago by Air Canada for a flight I was on, but had to refuse because I really needed to be back.

Just so you know $800 is not CASH
they give out $800 United Voucher that has a time limit and you won't be able to get the remainder back if you can't use them all

[twitchyzero]

Oh you mean dont let the crew members on board. So they don't show for your Chicago to LA flight putting 186 people in a hotel for a night?



Also, you need to consider the victim pulled off the plane was a physician. You might call it a stretch but what if he didn't make work and the hospital/clinic couldn't find a replacement last minute; and a patient misses a life-or-death diagnosis?

4 crew members missing a flight is not the end of the world.

[Hondaracer]

I was suppose to be on that same flight next month but ended up having to cancel

United was a super pain in the ass in terms of cancelling my reservation and their CSR's were unbearable to deal with. Unfortunately almost the only way to get to Louisville from Vancouver

[twitchyzero]

once again just because you bought a ticket doesnt mean you own that seat.Just like mrhappyslip, peoples views are generally very narrow.


care to clarify?

assuming the passenger is not a threat/unruly, if one pays good money and the airfare is confirmed, you are entitled to that seat for the flight duration, no?

I don't know the legalities of it but don't understand how any airline can forcibly remove a paying customer that isn't causing a ruckus.

[Acura604]

From CNBC:



United CEO Oscar Munoz doubled down in a letter to employees on Monday evening, claiming that employees "followed established procedures" when removing a passenger from a plane because it was overbooked, and calling the passenger "disruptive and belligerent."

United had to ask several passengers who had already boarded a flight from Chicago to Louisville on Sunday evening to leave, as the airline had sold too many tickets. One man refused to leave, and United called airport officials, who forcibly removed him from the plane.

Video circulated of the incident earlier in the day, showing the man being dragged from the plane and later returning with blood on his face. The incident drew scorn on Twitter and other social media, especially when Munoz used the euphemism "re-accomodate" in a public statement to describe the customers booted from the flight.

According to the letter, which was obtained by CNBC, when crew members first approached the passenger to tell him to leave, he "raised his voice and refused to comply," and each time they asked again "he refused and became more and more disruptive and belligerent."

Crew members "were left with no choice but to call Chicago Aviation Security Officers to assist in removing the customer from the flight," Munoz wrote, and at one point the passenger "continued to resist - running back onto the aircraft in defiance of both our crew and security officials."

Munoz acknowledged to employees that the company could learn lessons from the incident, but said: "I emphatically stand behind all of you."

[pastarocket]

Shit just keeps getting real on United.

Flight 23 on 9-11. Passenger getting dragged out of a United plane as a resulting of a overbooking.

What's next? Snakes on a United plane?? :fulloffuck:

[JSALES]

United Airlines fucked up bad, they should have left 4 seats available if they had their standby crew coming on board. Fucking stupid

[Jmac]

I don't think I saw this mentioned, but the 4 crew members were supposed to work a flight from Louisville the following day, not immediately following this flight working a flight from Chicago to LA as some posters stated.

[hud 91gt]

Also, you need to consider the victim pulled off the plane was a physician. You might call it a stretch but what if he didn't make work and the hospital/clinic couldn't find a replacement last minute; and a patient misses a life-or-death diagnosis?

4 crew members missing a flight is not the end of the world.

In a perfect world, yes. I doubt this is taken into context on the airlines convoluted algorithm to pick a passenger. Although, with proper communications skills one could communicate to a gate service agent prior to boarding the circumstance. I bet they would work around it. If the deplaning is happening on the A/C as described, and people are getting "disruptive," the reasoning is probably not going to be as persuasive.


care to clarify?

assuming the passenger is not a threat/unruly, if one pays good money and the airfare is confirmed, you are entitled to that seat for the flight duration, no?

I don't know the legalities of it but don't understand how any airline can forcibly remove a paying customer that isn't causing a ruckus.

I don't have a reference for this, sorry. Although, the ever credible news articles are now also stating this as fact so it must be true :p


I don't think I saw this mentioned, but the 4 crew members were supposed to work a flight from Louisville the following day, not immediately following this flight working a flight from Chicago to LA as some posters stated.
Oh you mean dont let the crew members on board. So they don't show for your Chicago to LA flight putting 186 people in a hotel for a night?

That makes a lot of sense. As much as you think an airline is just trying to screw you, it is a game of what is going to disturb shit the least. Think about it

My statement about Chicago to LA was merely an example, I had not idea where the crew was going. I also stated that mrhappyslip was onboard the so called flight to LA and he wouldn't have been happy if his flight was missed. It was just for him.

Once again, without more information the crew working the next day is irrelevant. Proper rest is required, crews are not located in every city so relocation can also have it's issues.




From the article above, it seems United is taking the stance that the passenger was being difficult. This is a much easier way to reason the deplaning of the passenger. Or maybe it's a scapegoat. ha

I was just reading an industry forum and this comment made me laugh.

"I'm not saying I agree at all with what happened. The problem with cell phone justice is everything is out of context. When have you or anybody seen a passenger removed by airport police for an oversell situation . The context is all wrong.
When it gets to the point that the police tell you to come with them . You go. Not scream like a hyena and hang on to the chair."

Perhaps he was related to these two.
http://bc.ctvnews.ca/mountie-filmed-dragging-elderly-man-down-stairs-in-coquitlam-1.3136734

[v_tec]

Just so you know $800 is not CASH
they give out $800 United Voucher that has a time limit and you won't be able to get the remainder back if you can't use them all

Depends on which airline. Some are cash.

Also, you need to consider the victim pulled off the plane was a physician. You might call it a stretch but what if he didn't make work and the hospital/clinic couldn't find a replacement last minute; and a patient misses a life-or-death diagnosis?

And according to one of the (unconfirmed) source out there, that was exactly why he didn't want to get off. He needed to be at the hospital by the next morning. Whether or not its for a life/death diagnosis, that's another story.

4 crew members missing a flight is not the end of the world.

I don't think I saw this mentioned, but the 4 crew members were supposed to work a flight from Louisville the following day, not immediately following this flight working a flight from Chicago to LA as some posters stated.

Not immediately following the flight, but that particular flight was already the last flight of the day. Crew members are regulated by minimum rest hours. So sending them off by train/bus/rental car is probably out of the question. Whether these crew members are scheduled to work the next day at 7am, or 5pm, that - we don't know.


But I agree, United should have accounted for these 4 crew's seat ahead of time, and the way they handled this situation is just ridiculous. Luckily, I don't travel much intra-States by air.

[CharlesInCharge]

America is the military wing of the empire... its a super police state filled with grunts and whores... they even have to import their own doctors. Uncivilized country is uncivilized.

[Marshall Placid]

Trying to stay objective here:

Yes, the employees handled the situation poorly either through:

1- Poor training
2- Lack of power to offer more than a pre-determined limit (unless approved by a superior)
3- Used laws and regulations to empower themselves to boot the passenger off: explanation: I have power and law on my side, so YOU will HAVE to go, and I can make it happen by calling on the authorities: power corrupts.
4- By not negotiating with the passenger, all 100+ passengers and the crew were delayed for 2.5+ hours costing themselves much more than the vouchers.
5- Obviously, bad brand awareness for the short-run, costing UA possibly millions in lost revenues.

Yes, the passenger ALSO handled the situation poorly:

1- Do you really need to make a scene like that? It's the Youtube era, and your name and possibly your face will be on the internet forevermore.
2- If the passenger was a doctor, all the more shameful for him. A doctor would have a much clearer head and exemplified a much more controlled demeanor. If he was a doctor, and his peers recognized him, it wouldn't help with his career.
3- It's Chicago right? It is safe to assume there could be other flights to buy tickets on.
4- Admittedly, I am just using the information supplied online, but the passenger could have tried to negotiate for a better deal. I'm unsure if it was possible. On the other hand, I'm 100% sure that being dragged off the plane screaming and kicking and getting himself bloodied was not worth it.
5- His behaviour delayed the other 100+ passengers on board for 2.5+ hours.
6- If he took the vouchers, he might have boarded another flight within those 2.5+ hours on another airline.


Profit explanation of airlines:

1- Too much competition.
2- For the profitable airlines, the net profit is just $2 per passenger. So, the $300 ticket passengers paid? The airlines make $2 on average per ticket. So, if they had to use vouchers and hotel stays for booting passengers off, the entire net profit for that single flight is wiped off.
3- Not enough differentiation, so airlines focus on cost cutting and revenue maximising... .through the antics shown in the video with that passenger.
4- It's a legacy industry wherein unions and long-time employees have massive pensions to collect. This is very much disadvantageous to the longer-running, older airlines like UA, etc. and much more beneficial (in Canada) to Westjet than Air Canada.
5- Do you guys remember Canadian Airlines? And, I didn't google here... I just remembered off the top of my head, so I might not be 100% exact. It was basically a forced merger by the Canadian Government for Air Canada to take over Canadian Airlines. This meant that Air Canada had to bear the burden of the pensions of Canadian Airlines' employees. The same thing happened to UA and a few other airlines in the USA. UA actually was able to negotiate lower pensions, salaries, and labour costs, but they are still more expensive to operate than say, Jet Blue.


TL:DR: Both the employees and the passenger made extremely poor decisions. The employees abused their rights and laws to kick the passenger out. The passenger thought that by screaming and kicking, he could stay on the flight.

End result: nobody won.

[Gh0stRider]

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/part-250

The CFR requires airlines to first ask for volunteers before denying boarding involuntarily and in this case United reportedly did offer $400 and then eventually $800 in compensation to try and get volunteers, but didn’t get enough takers. Some people think United should have offered more money, though Rule 25, section A(4)a of United’s Contract of Carriage states the airline will offer a maximum amount of $675 to $1,350, depending on the original fare and the length of the delay if it involuntarily bumps people.

[JSALES]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHyOTEpUHIU

[threezero]

I don't think I saw this mentioned, but the 4 crew members were supposed to work a flight from Louisville the following day, not immediately following this flight working a flight from Chicago to LA as some posters stated.

Clearly a scheduling problem with unite airline. They fucked up and passenger are the one that get the short end of the sick.

[Timpo]

Was that $800 cash or credit towards future flight?

Also if $800 cash didn't work, they should've raised it to $1,000 or even $2,000 or $3,000.

I know airlines work on small profit margins, but that's none of customers' business.

Now they are probably facing 7 digit lawsuit + lost potential income due to media exposure & ruined reputation, which could cause possible 8 or 9 digit total loss.

[IMASA]

Airlines will always offer a travel voucher. But according to the DOT site, they are required to pay cash/check. The DOT site says the max you can get is 4x the price of your ticket, up to a max of $1350, if you are delayed from arriving at your destination by ~>4 hours. The next flight out would have been ~3pm the next day, so it probably would've qualified.

It's mind boggling that UA didn't at least try to raise their bribe to the amount they are legally required to pay out before implementing their "re-accomodation" process. You would hope someone would've taken the bribe at $1350.

[FerrariEnzo]

why couldnt they have ask/pick someone else?

Nowadays, everything is about image for big companies...

[Mr.HappySilp]

Was that $800 cash or credit towards future flight?

Also if $800 cash didn't work, they should've raised it to $1,000 or even $2,000 or $3,000.

I know airlines work on small profit margins, but that's none of customers' business.

Now they are probably facing 7 digit lawsuit + lost potential income due to media exposure & ruined reputation, which could cause possible 8 or 9 digit total loss.

Sorry as some people mention is not $800 cash but $800 credit for in flight service. And those some popular in flight service are not include and you can only use the credit on certain route (IE non popular ones.). With such a shitty compensation of course no one wants to give up their seats.

Heck even if the $800 credit can go towards any plane ticket I wouldn't want to ride with airline again so offering any credit is useless.

If United offer cash instead of credit I bet a lot more people are willing to give up their seats.

[IMASA]

They identified the passenger. Sorry for the shitty sauce.

Dr dragged from United Airlines flight named as David Dao | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4401444/Name-man-hauled-United-flight-Chicago-revealed.html)


The passenger who was dragged from an United Airlines flight is 69-year-old grandfather Dr David Dao. Footage of the Vietnamese-American being hauled off the overbooked flight at Chicago's O'Hare International Airport on Sunday caused outrage on Monday.

Dr Dao was heard in videos captured of his shocking eviction saying he needed to get home to Louisville so he could see patients.
DailyMail.com can reveal Dr Dao is a father of five and a grandfather, who specializes in internal medicine.
Four of his five children are doctors. His wife Teresa, 69, is a pediatrican who trained at Ho Chi Minh University in Saigon and also practices in Elizabethtown, Kentucky - about 40 miles south of Louisville.

Their eldest son Tim, 34, practices medicine in Texas; their second son Ben, 31, is a medical graduate; their daughter Christine, 33, is a doctor in Durham, NC; and their youngster daughter Angela, 27, is a medical graduate of the University of Kentucky.
......

[Ferra]

I actually have no problem with airline overbooking...it is business and statistic ...otherwise they'd be wasting tons of empty seats on every flights.

The shitty part is how they handled the situation when problem arises like this one.

Also just checked...Chicago to Lousville is a 4.5 hours drive...
If someone rented a car and drove there they would've arrived before the flight even gets there after 2.5hrs of delays and 1.5hrs flight + all the boarding/unboarding time.

[Great68]

The passenger thought that by screaming and kicking, he could stay on the flight.

End result: nobody won.

The passenger didn't win the battle, but he may yet win the war. His actions brought this whole practice of overbooking and policies around it to discussion and I bet some policies are going to change.

UA's latest unapologetic statements seem to be digging their hole even deeper, now their stock is down 4% today.

[Presto]

The chance for United to prevent this passenger from flying was to do it at the boarding gate. They already let him board, and their Contract of Carriage (https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx#sec21) (ToS) doesn't give them any right to do what they did in this situation.

[shawnly1000]

https://i.redd.it/ksayfl7wvwqy.png

[Gh0stRider]

https://youtu.be/HV28_ENzFog

[ilovebacon]

the police charged him for battering

[Dragon-88]

So if an Airline is knowingly going to sell overbooked tickets, why don't they state them as overbooked tickets? This allows again for those who have purchased tickets late to be denied a seat, which then I would have no problem. But if you're going to assign a seat and then try to pull back.. That just wont fly with the public and there will be issues.

[Armind]

A big fuck you to the United CEO.

[Great68]

So if an Airline is knowingly going to sell overbooked tickets, why don't they state them as overbooked tickets? This allows again for those who have purchased tickets late to be denied a seat, which then I would have no problem. But if you're going to assign a seat and then try to pull back.. That just wont fly with the public and there will be issues.

They have this, called "Standby tickets".

Except the airlines found it was more profitable to just oversell at full ticket price and bump people at "random".

[pastarocket]

:lawl:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/04/10/23/3F24DD3300000578-4399512-image-a-3_1491864082352.jpg

[twitchyzero]

i think the aviation security took his 'kill me i just wanna go home' statement too literally

[Timpo]

ok so this man was violently removed from aircraft because he “refused to leave [an] aircraft voluntarily”
Merriam-Webster reminds United Airlines what ‘volunteer’ means

Merriam-Webster reminds United Airlines what ?volunteer? means - National | Globalnews.ca (http://globalnews.ca/news/3370207/merriam-webster-volunteer-united-airlines/)

[Gh0stRider]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/united-airlines-shares-tumbling-140648573.html?utm_content=buffer215a5&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=yahoofinance

[Hondaracer]

BSwLKJLjMa0

BSuVnaHgKG7

BSwA3UADSPp

BSwAPpfFv6B

BSvz6NEFO6o

[twitchyzero]

https://thepointsguy.com/2017/04/i-got-the-united-situation-wrong/

[threezero]

The passenger didn't win the battle, but he may yet win the war. His actions brought this whole practice of overbooking and policies around it to discussion and I bet some policies are going to change.

UA's latest unapologetic statements seem to be digging their hole even deeper, now their stock is down 4% today.

looking at pre market prices is like counting chicken before it hatches. Volume is so low literally means nothing. Look not even the end of the trading day and it already made back alot of its loses.


unfortunately in the grand scheme of things scandal like this will blow over in no time. UAL has ALWAYS had bad press left and right.

[Eff-1]

This flight wasn't even overbooked. They simply decided at the last minute to kick off paying passengers in order to fly 4 employees. Just terrible.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2017/04/11/united-ceo-employees-followed-procedures-flier-belligerent/100317166/

[Raid3n]

"voluntold"

[hal0g0dv2]

https://ca.yahoo.com/finance/news/video-shows-guards-dragging-passenger-133041900.html

[The KingMachine]

Personally I would have just gotten up and off. I've seen enough videos illustrating the fact cops will kick the shit out of you.

Save yourself the beating and just get off the plane.

[shawnly1000]

https://twitter.com/AP/status/851876612148789248

[Armind]

Idiot.

[Y2K_o__o]

Trying to stay objective here:

Yes, the employees handled the situation poorly either through:

1- Poor training
2- Lack of power to offer more than a pre-determined limit (unless approved by a superior)
3- Used laws and regulations to empower themselves to boot the passenger off: explanation: I have power and law on my side, so YOU will HAVE to go, and I can make it happen by calling on the authorities: power corrupts.
4- By not negotiating with the passenger, all 100+ passengers and the crew were delayed for 2.5+ hours costing themselves much more than the vouchers.
5- Obviously, bad brand awareness for the short-run, costing UA possibly millions in lost revenues.

Yes, the passenger ALSO handled the situation poorly:

1- Do you really need to make a scene like that? It's the Youtube era, and your name and possibly your face will be on the internet forevermore.
2- If the passenger was a doctor, all the more shameful for him. A doctor would have a much clearer head and exemplified a much more controlled demeanor. If he was a doctor, and his peers recognized him, it wouldn't help with his career.
3- It's Chicago right? It is safe to assume there could be other flights to buy tickets on.
4- Admittedly, I am just using the information supplied online, but the passenger could have tried to negotiate for a better deal. I'm unsure if it was possible. On the other hand, I'm 100% sure that being dragged off the plane screaming and kicking and getting himself bloodied was not worth it.
5- His behaviour delayed the other 100+ passengers on board for 2.5+ hours.
6- If he took the vouchers, he might have boarded another flight within those 2.5+ hours on another airline.


Profit explanation of airlines:

1- Too much competition.
2- For the profitable airlines, the net profit is just $2 per passenger. So, the $300 ticket passengers paid? The airlines make $2 on average per ticket. So, if they had to use vouchers and hotel stays for booting passengers off, the entire net profit for that single flight is wiped off.
3- Not enough differentiation, so airlines focus on cost cutting and revenue maximising... .through the antics shown in the video with that passenger.
4- It's a legacy industry wherein unions and long-time employees have massive pensions to collect. This is very much disadvantageous to the longer-running, older airlines like UA, etc. and much more beneficial (in Canada) to Westjet than Air Canada.
5- Do you guys remember Canadian Airlines? And, I didn't google here... I just remembered off the top of my head, so I might not be 100% exact. It was basically a forced merger by the Canadian Government for Air Canada to take over Canadian Airlines. This meant that Air Canada had to bear the burden of the pensions of Canadian Airlines' employees. The same thing happened to UA and a few other airlines in the USA. UA actually was able to negotiate lower pensions, salaries, and labour costs, but they are still more expensive to operate than say, Jet Blue.


TL:DR: Both the employees and the passenger made extremely poor decisions. The employees abused their rights and laws to kick the passenger out. The passenger thought that by screaming and kicking, he could stay on the flight.

End result: nobody won.

I don't know if it's right to say the customer handled this situation poorly but if nobody is willing to give up his spot even UA offer $800 that means customers value their priority higher than the value given to them.

On the other hand, if it is a no-show, the air ticket will be forfeited or faced a certain amount of deduction

[SFU_wmc]

Also just checked...Chicago to Lousville is a 4.5 hours drive...
If someone rented a car and drove there they would've arrived before the flight even gets there after 2.5hrs of delays and 1.5hrs flight + all the boarding/unboarding time.

And how would you choose that "someone"?

[JSALES]

https://scontent-sea1-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/sh0.08/e35/p640x640/17663519_187758695070815_2043649910221307904_n.jpg

[twitchyzero]

their other videos are excellent..especially the budget airline one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqWksuyry5w

[IMASA]

https://twitter.com/AP/status/851876612148789248

https://twitter.com/awudrick/status/851888271806406658

[mr_chin]

A message to the person in charge of making all those decisions with offers and then forcibly removing the man off the plane, YOU'RE A FUCKING TOTAL DUMBASS AND DON'T DESERVE TO BE IN A POSITION OF MAKE DECISIONS.

Lying to the passenger would have been the safest and most effective way of getting them off the plane, and yet it has been overlooked.

Step 1: Throw your offer on the table to the 4 passengers.
Step 2: Tell them that there is another flight ready for them just outside that is ready to take off in one or two hours.
Step 2b: If no one agrees, randomly choose 4 passenger to board the non-existing flight. This way, other passengers on board wouldn't be against United for making this decision.
Step 3: Once they get off, get on the phone with Mr. nobody for 5 - 10 minutes or as long as it takes.
Step 4: Then tell the passengers there has been some discrepancies and the new flight has to been delayed/cancelled.
Step 5: Apologize and hand over the offer.

Result: United Airline doesn't go public and even if the 4 passengers go public, the magnitude of the situation would not be as large as forcibly removing someone off the plane.

[Mr.HappySilp]

https://youtu.be/XHyOTEpUHIU

[Mr.HappySilp]

A message to the person in charge of making all those decisions with offers and then forcibly removing the man off the plane, YOU'RE A FUCKING TOTAL DUMBASS AND DON'T DESERVE TO BE IN A POSITION OF MAKE DECISIONS.

Lying to the passenger would have been the safest and most effective way of getting them off the plane, and yet it has been overlooked.

Step 1: Throw your offer on the table to the 4 passengers.
Step 2: Tell them that there is another flight ready for them just outside that is ready to take off in one or two hours.
Step 2b: If no one agrees, randomly choose 4 passenger to board the non-existing flight. This way, other passengers on board wouldn't be against United for making this decision.
Step 3: Once they get off, get on the phone with Mr. nobody for 5 - 10 minutes or as long as it takes.
Step 4: Then tell the passengers there has been some discrepancies and the new flight has to been delayed/cancelled.
Step 5: Apologize and hand over the offer.

Result: United Airline doesn't go public and even if the 4 passengers go public, the magnitude of the situation would not be as large as forcibly removing someone off the plane.

Or how about plan better. If they need 4 seats for their employees how about leaving 4 seats unbook so no one needs to get bump off. Or better yet compensate them passenger as they are checking in. Or better yet offer better compensation such as actually cash and not credit that can't be use on popular routes and only on certain service while on the plane?

[Teriyaki]

Dumpster fire. That's how this week has turned out for UA.

Wrong place. Wrong time. Wrong passenger. Wrong law enforcement. Wrong decisions. Wrong response.
Infinite timelines and we got this one. Interesting to see it all bubble up.

So who's buying UA stock.

[flagella]

Me. Because people will forget about this soon. UA sure fucked up in handling this situation though.

[Drow]

Personally I would have just gotten up and off. I've seen enough videos illustrating the fact cops will kick the shit out of you.

Save yourself the beating and just get off the plane.

what if taking a beating in front of hundreds of people with cameras rolling with the thought of a generous settlement from an easy lawsuit in the back of your mind?

[highfive]

United PR really saved pepsi's ass.

[IMASA]

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2923/33601358120_066006f56d_c.jpg

[Jmac]

We were watching CNN during lunch (I didn't have control over the remote) and they were interviewing a lawyer who said something along the lines of 'it would've been less of a disaster if the plane had crashed'

:badpokerface:

[Teriyaki]

^Kind of shows how disgusting the mob mentality is right now more than anything.

Twitter VS Corporations is like the modern day witch hunt these days. Saddens me that this is front page news and likely will continue for some time yet when there's so much more going on around the world.

[twitchyzero]

harsh but the lawyer isn't wrong?
$250M market value in the red by the end of the whirlwind of a day
there's insurance against hull loss and paying out to the family of deceased....there's no insurance against PR obliteration?

I think the damage is irreversible TBH.

Last year many said everyone will forget about the Samsung Note7 PR disaster. It's still very fresh for everyone shopping for a new phone this year.

[Teriyaki]

I agree that the lawyer isn't wrong. It's sad that he's actually right, in that this incident with zero loss of human life could and would actually hit a corporations bottom line more and carry more shock value than a plane crash would these days.

[threezero]

harsh but the lawyer isn't wrong?
$250M market value in the red by the end of the whirlwind of a day
there's insurance against hull loss and paying out to the family of deceased....there's no insurance against PR obliteration?

I think the damage is irreversible TBH.

Last year many said everyone will forget about the Samsung Note7 PR disaster. It's still very fresh for everyone shopping for a new phone this year.

all these people making so much noise about UAL's suppose lose market value must be complete noobs at stocks... on Monday UAL close at 71 ish. This morning it took a dump down to 68$. That when social media went crazy with news of UAL loosing millions in market value. By the end of the day it close at 70$ ish. So that's around 2% overall changes in the price over the whole incident (remember this is the second official day after the incident, it will only die down from here). 2% daily movement on a big cap stock is literally nothing.

As a comparison just last November UAL was below $60.

i was kind of hoping people would overreact more to this news. Would of been a great buy in opportunity. As unfornately as this event is, it's minuscule in the grand scheme of things business wise. If any real impact to its stock price is to occur it will be during its next quarterly result and the one after that.

UAL will survive internet's short term memory.

Calm your horses everyone

[danned]

https://i.redd.it/h7yn9ojg8zqy.jpg

[Mr.HappySilp]

https://youtu.be/1Y8HdeHtOJs

even Jimmy Kimmel is on it now

[striderblade]

And now global is in the heat on social media because they dug up something about this guy pass. WTF does his pass had to do with this incident. He's a human being. He had places to go just like any other passager on the plane. Now global is trying to make him a look like a bad guy. American should really change their national anthem and replace the line "Land of the free" to something else. And if I were this guy I'll sue the shit out of United. A innocent free man shouldn't be treated like a terrorist or a pig getting dragged to a slaughter house then have his pass life blasted all over the news for the world to see.

[trd2343]

Not sure if this has been asked, the men who removed the passenger from the airplane, are they given authority to use force if an individual does not comply with their request?

Vice versa, is the passenger obliged to comply with their request (ie, leaving the plane)?

I think they were confirmed as aviation department police officers?

[mr_chin]

Not sure if this has been asked, the men who removed the passenger from the airplane, are they given authority to use force if an individual does not comply with their request?

Vice versa, is the passenger obliged to comply with their request (ie, leaving the plane)?

I think they were confirmed as aviation department police officers?

No individual has the right to use force unless the target is a threat.

[!LittleDragon]

If people forgot about the BP oil spill and runaway Toyotas, they'll forget about this. People were in such outrage when Cecil the lion was shot. These days, most of those people can't remember the lion's name let alone the guy who shot him.

Hell, I almost forgot Trump fired missiles at Syria last week.

[Mr.HappySilp]

And now global is in the heat on social media because they dug up something about this guy pass. WTF does his pass had to do with this incident. He's a human being. He had places to go just like any other passager on the plane. Now global is trying to make him a look like a bad guy. American should really change their national anthem and replace the line "Land of the free" to something else. And if I were this guy I'll sue the shit out of United. A innocent free man shouldn't be treated like a terrorist or a pig getting dragged to a slaughter house then have his pass life blasted all over the news for the world to see.

I am pretty sure he would sue United. Most likely the lawyer would do it for free too. Is a sure win case and you can get your name out there as the good guy.

[IMASA]

Apparently he's already hired 2 law firms to represent him.

[thumper]

some footage has surfaced showing events before the "reacommodation" occured, which disputes the airline CEO's early claims that the passenger was "disruptive and belligerent":

Video captures the argument moments before David Dao dragged off United Airlines flight - National | Globalnews.ca (http://globalnews.ca/news/3373761/video-captures-the-argument-moments-before-david-dao-dragged-off-united-airlines-flight/)

i was just listening to a talk radio channel and someone mentioned that the flight was actually not overbooked, but i haven't found anything online to support this claim atm...

[EDIT] here it is:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2017/04/11/united-ceo-employees-followed-procedures-flier-belligerent/100317166/

United spokesman Jonathan Guerin said Tuesday that all 70 seats on United Express Flight 3411 were filled, but the plane was not overbooked as the airline previously reported. Instead, United and regional affiliate Republic Airlines, which operated the flight, selected four passengers to be removed to accommodate crew members needed in Louisville the next day. The passengers were selected based on a combination of criteria spelled out in United’s contract of carriage, including frequent-flier status, fare type, check-in time and connecting flight implications, among others, according to United.

[EmperorIS]

https://youtu.be/1Y8HdeHtOJs

even Jimmy Kimmel is on it now

lol, even? What hot garbage Jimmy Kimmel doesn't immediately hop on?

[Armind]

Get rekt, bitches!

[pastarocket]

:lawl:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUf5mrwxCcc

[CCA-Dave]

United CEO Oscar Munoz felt 'shame' to see passenger dragged off flight - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/US/united-ceo-oscar-munoz-felt-sham-passenger-dragged/story?id=46746594)
Oscar Munoz, the CEO of United Airlines, today said he felt "shame" when he saw viral video of airport police dragging a bloodied passenger from one of his airline's flights Sunday night.

"This will never happen again," Munoz told ABC News' "Good Morning America" in an exclusive interview.

He added, "We are not going to put a law enforcement official onto a plane to take them off … to remove a booked, paid, seated passenger. We can't do that."

Regarding blowback Munoz received for his initial muted response, which did not include an apology, he said a more forceful reaction was delayed because he was still gathering the facts.

"I think my reaction to most issues is to get the facts and circumstances," he said. "My initial words fell short of truly expressing the shame."

Munoz said the feelings of embarrassment were "palpable" for him and his United colleagues...

Or, to put it another way, "After trying to forcibly remove a paying passenger from one of our airlines, I was annoyed to see that other customers filmed the incident. Once my attempt to address the error of our client's ways to staff, my internal letter was posted publically and caused an even bigger PR disaster. Now that our stocks have fallen, and people are calling for Federal regulations regarding over booking, I would like to say that I felt 'shame' watching the video. I mean, I felt 'shame the first time I saw it..."

[thumper]

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/satire/united-launches-new-drag-ondrag-off-seating-20170411-gvim0q.html

http://www.smh.com.au/content/dam/images/g/v/i/m/2/2/image.related.articleLeadwide.620x349.gvim0q.png/1491885413561.png

US airline giant United launched an innovative new seating class today, which will see customers dragged to and from their seats for a modest extra fee.

The ‘Drag-on/Drag-off’ fares will be targeted at those who simply can’t be bothered to walk to their seat, as well as business people who want to spend more time on their phone or laptop while moving down the aisle.

“It’s a whole new way of looking at airline service,” United CEO Oscar Munox said.

“While some people will want to continue with the traditional mode of walking to their own seat, we think a lot of customers will appreciate the convenience of being physically removed from a flight at the end of a busy day”.

Customers will be able to purchase the service – which will cost around $800 – when they book online.

Munoz said there will be an extra surcharge for those at the back of the plane. “It’s what we call a long-haul,” he joked.

[trd2343]

No individual has the right to use force unless the target is a threat.

But he refused to comply with the officer's request, did he not?

I'm totally with the poor man in this whole incident, but it seems to me that he could have walked out unharmed (and proceed to sue them afterwards instead) in this whole incident, had he listened to them.

If I'm not mistaken, these are actual airport police officers, and independent of United Airlines.

[IMASA]

https://i.redd.it/dc94ji5p14ry.jpg

[CCA-Dave]

But he refused to comply with the officer's request, did he not?

I'm totally with the poor man in this whole incident, but it seems to me that he could have walked out unharmed (and proceed to sue them afterwards instead) in this whole incident, had he listened to them.

If I'm not mistaken, these are actual airport police officers, and independent of United Airlines.

While I would like to agree with you, I can't. The problem is, had he exited the plane as requested and attempted to deal with customer service afterwards...even if he sued...he would get screwed by United. I'm 100% sure of it. Even though there is nothing in their ToS that say they can remove you from a flight after boarding (due to overbooking), they would find a way to loop around it. ONLY because they tried to physically remove him, and the resulting over-use-of-force by the officers, has this become the issue that it is.

Crap tactics like they used to "re-accommodate" the passengers, mainly "if no one will volunteer at $X dollars we will volunteer you", have been in place for YEARS...only once it hit assault do we finally recognize the problem and act as a society.

This is a company that offers $300 to voluntarily take the next flight, but then provides that $300 voucher in $50 increments that can't be used together. They absolutely do not have the paying client's best interest in mind, at any time.

-Dave

[unit]

he can sue united and win im sure, but the damage to united has been done.
even if the guy gets some obscene amount in the millions, united has already lost consumer confidence to the tune of at least hundreds of millions.

[thumper]

he can sue united and win im sure, but the damage to united has been done.
even if the guy gets some obscene amount in the millions, united has already lost consumer confidence to the tune of at least hundreds of millions.

United?s stock falls 1.1%, wipes out $255 million off the airline?s market cap - MarketWatch (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/uniteds-stock-is-set-to-fall-5-and-wipe-1-billion-off-the-airlines-market-cap-2017-04-11)

[trd2343]

While I would like to agree with you, I can't. The problem is, had he exited the plane as requested and attempted to deal with customer service afterwards...even if he sued...he would get screwed by United. I'm 100% sure of it. Even though there is nothing in their ToS that say they can remove you from a flight after boarding (due to overbooking), they would find a way to loop around it. ONLY because they tried to physically remove him, and the resulting over-use-of-force by the officers, has this become the issue that it is.

Crap tactics like they used to "re-accommodate" the passengers, mainly "if no one will volunteer at $X dollars we will volunteer you", have been in place for YEARS...only once it hit assault do we finally recognize the problem and act as a society.

This is a company that offers $300 to voluntarily take the next flight, but then provides that $300 voucher in $50 increments that can't be used together. They absolutely do not have the paying client's best interest in mind, at any time.

-Dave

I agree too, UA probably would've screwed him had he just bowed down and walked off. It does seem like his best interest to stay put (even maybe in harm's way), so to turn this into big issue.

I'm just curious how the lawsuit will turn out, if one does proceed. I can't comment on the excessive force part, but what I'm certain is that he did not comply with the officers.

But I guess the main focus is still on UA's poor decision to kick out the passenger. UA probably or certainly will need to do some damage control, and compensation seems inevitable.

[Great68]

I'm just curious how the lawsuit will turn out, if one does proceed. I can't comment on the excessive force part, but what I'm certain is that he did not comply with the officers.


Well the officer that dragged the guy was put on leave, and the Chicago Avation Department spokeswoman has publicly stated the officer didn't act in accordance with their operating procedures and that his actions weren't condoned.

So there's that.

Chicago Aviation Officer Placed On Leave After Dragging Man Off Plane « CBS Chicago (http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/04/10/chicago-aviation-officer-placed-on-leave-after-dragging-man-off-plane/)

[urrh]

Well the officer that dragged the guy was put on leave, and the Chicago Avation Department spokeswoman has publicly stated the officer didn't act in accordance with their operating procedures and that his actions weren't condoned.

So there's that.

Chicago Aviation Officer Placed On Leave After Dragging Man Off Plane « CBS Chicago (http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/04/10/chicago-aviation-officer-placed-on-leave-after-dragging-man-off-plane/)

didn't read the article, but if the aviation police are anything like regular police, it'll be on leave with pay

[The_Situation]

didn't read the article, but if the aviation police are anything like regular police, it'll be on leave with pay

Regardless, this ends the debate on whether the officers were right to drag him off like an animal because he didn't comply to their requests.

[Presto]

Regardless, this ends the debate on whether the officers were right to drag him off like an animal because he didn't comply to their requests.

Did you not see this post (emphasis mine):

Well the officer that dragged the guy was put on leave, and the Chicago Avation Department spokeswoman has publicly stated the officer didn't act in accordance with their operating procedures and that his actions weren't condoned.

So there's that.

Chicago Aviation Officer Placed On Leave After Dragging Man Off Plane « CBS Chicago (http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/04/10/chicago-aviation-officer-placed-on-leave-after-dragging-man-off-plane/)

[mr_chin]

But he refused to comply with the officer's request, did he not?

I'm totally with the poor man in this whole incident, but it seems to me that he could have walked out unharmed (and proceed to sue them afterwards instead) in this whole incident, had he listened to them.

If I'm not mistaken, these are actual airport police officers, and independent of United Airlines.

If the passengers comply to leave the plane, there is no case. On top of that, the public and the media wouldn't give a shit about the doctor's complaint.

I guess I should have mentioned "excessive force". Using force to remove someone is fine, but the doctor is bleeding FFS. Anyways, the outcome of the situation speaks for itself. The officer who used excessive force is put on leave with administration review.

My prediction is that, the officer will most likely be fired not only because of his action, but because the result of the situation caused the company's stocks to fall, which means that a lot of people are involved now (stakeholders, shareholders, board of directors, etc). When an individual's action is held accountable for the loss of a company's asset/finance, it's pretty serious.

[Rallydrv]

recent flight to japan on AC, flight was delayed about an hour, for people (4) on a connecting flight + they were looking for volunteers (3) to go the next day... wtf.. if they are late,, maybe have them take the next flight... (dont get)

[hud 91gt]

I stopped posting in here as it's tough to argue with people with half the story. This lady does a decent job of explaining the situation. For anyone who actually cares to read this, it will answer some of the silly questions.

https://thepilotwifelife.wordpress.com/2017/04/11/i-know-youre-mad-at-united-but-thoughts-from-a-pilot-wife-about-flight-3411/


I don't really see why she is mentioning the fact he boarded the AC again afterwards (How is still a puzzle). I just assumed he had a concussion. But she's better explaining a lot of that better then I am. I'm already sick of hearing about this story as it's pretty blown out of proportion, but hey. That's just me. It's good to see some media attention as the rule is BS. If they made a law to ban overbooking, we'll pay for it. But at least your guaranteed to make it there... until one of the other thousands of scenarios show up to cancel or delay your flight....

[The_Situation]

Did you not see this post (emphasis mine):

Yes? There's no debate. Their police department has even confirmed that they did not condone the officer's actions.

[danned]

https://i.redd.it/1uxhgzw3c6ry.jpg
https://i.giphy.com/e1k7yXGjbh9cI.gif
https://i.redd.it/zeprlntel4ry.png

[Presto]

Yes? There's no debate. Their police department has even confirmed that they did not condone the officer's actions.

My apologies. I misunderstood your post.

[hchang]

I'm not taking any sides here but there's always more facts to consider

I agree it's not fair that any airlines can kick you off to accomadate staff or whoever the fuck they want to accommodate, but it's reserved in their right to do so when you skip through that whole body of text and hit accept when booking your ticket.

When they need that seat and ask you nicely to leave, then you run back back like a child who won't accept their bedtime, the police will see you as a threat to aviation security and will forcibly remove you.

This article was a good read, prime example was the writer was saying how when she was taking her kid through a TSA checkpoint they made her kid take off their socks. It didn't make sense to her at all but instead of fighting with the rules and regulations that were put into place with the right intentions in mind (to protect the lives of all traveling, the coworkers of the aviation industry and to avoid another potential 9/11)

Good read if youve got the time, same link shared by hud_91gt
https://thepilotwifelife.wordpress.com/2017/04/11/i-know-youre-mad-at-united-but-thoughts-from-a-pilot-wife-about-flight-3411/

[syee]

he can sue united and win im sure, but the damage to united has been done.
even if the guy gets some obscene amount in the millions, united has already lost consumer confidence to the tune of at least hundreds of millions.

I've heard a bunch of people say "boycott United" - but lets be honest here - how many people will let their conscience override their wallet or time? If United is the cheaper option, or the most direct option, would you really not take it because you vowed to boycott them?

As others have mentioned, this will blow over in a few weeks and life will go on. United sure isn't the only airline who overbooks - they just got caught red handed handling it poorly. The guy that did the beating was a Chicago Airport cop so this probably could have happened on any airline. A couple of hundred million dollars on a company with an over 22 billion dollar market cap is just a blip and shareholders will barely blink an eye at the drop in valuation over the last 2 days.

[Mr.HappySilp]

But he refused to comply with the officer's request, did he not?

I'm totally with the poor man in this whole incident, but it seems to me that he could have walked out unharmed (and proceed to sue them afterwards instead) in this whole incident, had he listened to them.

If I'm not mistaken, these are actual airport police officers, and independent of United Airlines.

if he did what he was told he wouldn't be able to sue coz there is nothing to sue for.

There should be fine for bumping customer off a plane, not just some crappy compensation. Like for each passenger you bump you have to pay a fine. Not just s slap on wrist but a fine that actually hurt the airline button profit so they don't way overbook. 10% of the total ticket price for that fight for every customer that gets bump is a good start.

You know what, just ban overbooking outright. I mean you do see hockey games, concerts, movie theaters, railway etc etc...... sells more tickets than seats they have so why is airline allow to do this?

[unit]

I've heard a bunch of people say "boycott United" - but lets be honest here - how many people will let their conscience override their wallet or time? If United is the cheaper option, or the most direct option, would you really not take it because you vowed to boycott them?

As others have mentioned, this will blow over in a few weeks and life will go on. United sure isn't the only airline who overbooks - they just got caught red handed handling it poorly. The guy that did the beating was a Chicago Airport cop so this probably could have happened on any airline. A couple of hundred million dollars on a company with an over 22 billion dollar market cap is just a blip and shareholders will barely blink an eye at the drop in valuation over the last 2 days.

there are a few airlines that i strongly prefer not to fly and if the difference was pretty close i'd choose the more expensive option. especially when flying overseas, there are airlines and connections that i pay extra to avoid unless the next option is substantially more.

[thumper]

reconstructive surgery needed... lawyers must have been tripping over each other trying to represent him:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/david-dao-united-airlines-injuries-reconstructive-surgery-tom-demetrio-concussion-broken-nose-lost-a7682766.html

United Airlines: David Dao will need reconstructive surgery after suffering concussion, broken nose and lost teeth, says his lawyer

Lawyers for David Dao, the passenger forcibly removed from a United Airlines flight over the weekend, confirmed that Mr Dao had sustained several serious injuries as a result of his removal. The injuries include a concussion, broken nose, injury to the sinuses, and two lost teeth.

Attorney Tom Demetrio told reporters Mr Dao was discharged from the hospital late Wednesday. He described his client as "shaken."

Mr Demetrio said at a press conference Thursday that there would “probably” be a lawsuit over the incident. Mr Deterio and co-counsel Stephen L. Golan filed an emergency petition with a Chicago court on Wednesday, asking United Airlines and the city of Chicago to preserve all evidence that could pertain to a lawsuit.

[pastarocket]

It was a smart move by the passenger Dr Dao to lawyer up fast after the Chicago PD dragged and dropped him on the plane. :thumbsup:

Sue United and the Chicago PD big time! Take them to the cleaners for tens of millions of dollars!!! :awwyeah:

[murd0c]

All I know is the way things look United and the City of Chicago will have to try to settle this out of court or else they are going to get crushed if it goes to trial.

[604STIG]

I heard that United has reimbursed every passenger that was on that flight. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of waiver that goes along with that. Something along the lines of waiving your right to testify against them or something?

[FerrariEnzo]

Damn.. people still go to this Dr?

the dude convicted of multiple felony drugs charges in 2004.

He got his license to practiced back in 2015 but has restriction.. lol I wouldnt want to go see him knowing that past.. dayum

[thumper]

Damn.. people still go to this Dr?

Dr. Dao was also convicted on six felony counts of obtaining drugs by fraud and deceit and got five years probation in 2005, according to TMZ.

He got his license to practiced back in 2015 but has restriction.. lol I wouldnt want to go see him knowing that past.. dayum

he restricted to only work one day per week for another doctor in Elizabethtown, KT according to one article i read, but another one said he is practicing at a major hospital :confused:

[Great68]

I stopped posting in here as it's tough to argue with people with half the story. This lady does a decent job of explaining the situation. For anyone who actually cares to read this, it will answer some of the silly questions.

https://thepilotwifelife.wordpress.com/2017/04/11/i-know-youre-mad-at-united-but-thoughts-from-a-pilot-wife-about-flight-3411/


I don't really see why she is mentioning the fact he boarded the AC again afterwards (How is still a puzzle). I just assumed he had a concussion. But she's better explaining a lot of that better then I am. I'm already sick of hearing about this story as it's pretty blown out of proportion, but hey. That's just me. It's good to see some media attention as the rule is BS. If they made a law to ban overbooking, we'll pay for it. But at least your guaranteed to make it there... until one of the other thousands of scenarios show up to cancel or delay your flight....

In other words, "Wah! No one agrees with me!"

Your only argument has been "United can kick people off at will" and "You always have to do what a policeman tells you", that to me is only arguing based on half the story.

In this story though, you have to take into account the full context:

- United's errors in adequately scheduling/securing seats for their staff prior to this flight
- United's failure to address an overbooking situation before allowing passengers onto the plane and into their seats
- United's failure to offer adequate compensation to bring about volunteers
- United's decision to involuntarily remove passengers, without so much as consulting those passengers if they had important reasons compelling them ensure they made the flight
- United's decision to use force on non-compliant passengers, and subsequent use of excessive force by the Police to remove the passenger


I'm sure everyone agrees that it's generally a good idea to do what Police say. However through the failings of United this situation should never have got to that stage, and that's why nobody gives a shit that this guy didn't just do what the Policeman said, and why United is getting the shitstorm of blame.

[trd2343]

if he did what he was told he wouldn't be able to sue coz there is nothing to sue for.

There should be fine for bumping customer off a plane, not just some crappy compensation. Like for each passenger you bump you have to pay a fine. Not just s slap on wrist but a fine that actually hurt the airline button profit so they don't way overbook. 10% of the total ticket price for that fight for every customer that gets bump is a good start.

You know what, just ban overbooking outright. I mean you do see hockey games, concerts, movie theaters, railway etc etc...... sells more tickets than seats they have so why is airline allow to do this?

But... I don't think anyone or at least me is condoning the fact overselling is ok. At all.

But if there's nothing to sue for just because he walked off the plane, then the only people who he will be suing at this point is the police officers, cause they are independent of UA, they caused bodily harm, not UA.

And I absolutely side with the passenger in that it's unreasonable for UA to boot the passenger off the plane. But do you think he did not once think about the consequences of disobeying the officers?

What would any of you have done, if you were in his shoes? Shit, if I was in his shoes, whether I like it or not, or agree or not, officers ask me to get off the plane, I haul ass and get off right away.

It's unfair that UA could get officers involved to remove passengers off the plane, but at that point, I'm not going to stick around and argue and risk getting removed by force. If I do decide not to move, I would think I'd be held responsible for my own actions as well.

But, all of this doesn't matter in the end, because even the police department released a statement that what the officers did was wrong (I'm not sure if it is the excessive force, or forcibly removing a passenger from the plane).

What I did notice was that the man who was dragging the passenger off the plane was in civilian clothes, so that maybe something that the passenger could also hold the officers accountable for.

Again, UA is absolutely at fault here, for overselling and the way they handle overbooking a plane (forcing a passenger off the plane), but I personally feel the passenger is partially responsible for his own injuries as well.

[Eff-1]

To all of those who agree with The Pilot Wife and are saying saying "well the law is the law, read the contract, etc" are failing to look at WHY this whole thing came about.

The passenger wasn't a safety threat. He wasn't bothering other people. He wasn't drunk. He wasn't ill. Those are the reasons why a contract gives an airline the right to remove a passenger.

Instead, he was an ordinary man, who paid for his seat, boarded, and was then suddenly told he had to get off to make room for someone else (an employee at that).

And when he said no (which is totally reasonable given the circumstances), the crew decided it would be appropriate to bring in some goons to take care of this situation that United created in the first place.

If you honestly think that's ok and the passenger is at fault because it's written in the contract and he should have done what he was told, give your head a shake.

[IMASA]

And the same goes for the airport security that threw him out. He should've assessed the situation, saw that the passenger posed no security threat to himself, the airline or other passengers, acknowledge that it was a civil matter and leave it to the airline to deal with.

[Mr.HappySilp]

But... I don't think anyone or at least me is condoning the fact overselling is ok. At all.

But if there's nothing to sue for just because he walked off the plane, then the only people who he will be suing at this point is the police officers, cause they are independent of UA, they caused bodily harm, not UA.

And I absolutely side with the passenger in that it's unreasonable for UA to boot the passenger off the plane. But do you think he did not once think about the consequences of disobeying the officers?

What would any of you have done, if you were in his shoes? Shit, if I was in his shoes, whether I like it or not, or agree or not, officers ask me to get off the plane, I haul ass and get off right away.

It's unfair that UA could get officers involved to remove passengers off the plane, but at that point, I'm not going to stick around and argue and risk getting removed by force. If I do decide not to move, I would think I'd be held responsible for my own actions as well.

But, all of this doesn't matter in the end, because even the police department released a statement that what the officers did was wrong (I'm not sure if it is the excessive force, or forcibly removing a passenger from the plane).

What I did notice was that the man who was dragging the passenger off the plane was in civilian clothes, so that maybe something that the passenger could also hold the officers accountable for.

Again, UA is absolutely at fault here, for overselling and the way they handle overbooking a plane (forcing a passenger off the plane), but I personally feel the passenger is partially responsible for his own injuries as well.

Once I boared I ain't moving till the airline came up with compensation that meet what I want. I won't fight, push I will simply just sit in the seats video recording the whole thing. Is simple pay enough compensation and I will get off.

Remember the airlines is asking a favor from you, they should pay or offer what you ask for. I pass security meaning I am not a national threat, MY ID have been check, I am clam, not yelling the airport security/police have no right to remove me off the flight because this is a civil matter and me an the ariline is still taking about compensation. If the airline wants me to get bump faster they should offer me more compensation. So how long it takes depends on how much they offer.

[!LittleDragon]

A couple of hundred million dollars on a company with an over 22 billion dollar market cap is just a blip and shareholders will barely blink an eye at the drop in valuation over the last 2 days.

I'd also like to add the stochastics for UAL were showing overbought conditions and was trading sideways for a week. Technical traders know the stock price was going to head downward anyways, I don't think this incident had any affect on the stock price.

[djstyles]

I'm just gonna leave this here https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170413/8fee4aa8748446a62b53eec5633cae79.jpg

[dapperfied]

gaiz stahp it, i'm gonna pee!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxNJKcAbxuY

[snowball]

Damn.. people still go to this Dr?

the dude convicted of multiple felony drugs charges in 2004.

He got his license to practiced back in 2015 but has restriction.. lol I wouldnt want to go see him knowing that past.. dayum

For fradulently prescribing and attaining drugs, guy's a "legal" drug dealer... I bet everyone wants to go to him!

[hud 91gt]

In other words, "Wah! No one agrees with me!"

Your only argument has been "United can kick people off at will" and "You always have to do what a policeman tells you", that to me is only arguing based on half the story.
No, in fact it's the only factual information out there. Stop reading into the media's propaganda and look into real information. I know a tiny bit about women, a little about cars, but my actual knowledge is AVIATION. The reason I quit responding is due to the fact of the mob's of people jumping onto this like leeches and not letting go, disregarding real facts.

So let's walk through your list....

In this story though, you have to take into account the full context:

- United's errors in adequately scheduling/securing seats for their staff prior to this flight
I guess you missed the page I posted. It posted some fairly relevant facts. The fact United supposedly did not secure seats for their staff is FALSE as far as we know. It is an unknown. United probably has 4500+ flights a day. Things go wrong, there is last minute changes. Crews are swapped, last minute bookings are made. These occurrences don't just happen multiple times daily, they happen hourly. If a change was required, and a crew needed to be on that plane now. That is not a fuck up. It's part of the business to keep it further going off the rails. 4 people get sacrificed for the good of the operation. Yes it sucks. But the domino effect which happens otherwise is exponential.

The ONLY scenario I have come across which could have possibly been United's fault is, if these crew members were booked far in advance. Their arrival flight was delayed, and now the gate agents decided to board anyhow (giving away their seat) and handing out the remaining seats as they assumed the crew would not make the flight. I then see some liability. But even then, they have the right to do as they please for the operation.


- United's failure to address an overbooking situation before allowing passengers onto the plane and into their seats
If there was an overbooking situation, it would have happened and been dealt with prior to boarding. I suspect this crew requirement was a last minute change. With half the information, you are correct. But this is not how airlines operate. It is not a normal thing to do, other factors are at play.

- United's failure to offer adequate compensation to bring about volunteers Did they not offer within the required amount? It seems to me, they did. It sounds cheap to me, but they did what was required.


- United's decision to involuntarily remove passengers, without so much as consulting those passengers if they had important reasons compelling them ensure they made the flightFair enough, but they don't require it. Bad move? Probably.


- United's decision to use force on non-compliant passengers, and subsequent use of excessive force by the Police to remove the passenger
When did United use force? When they have the right to pull a passenger, and the passenger is not complying they did exactly what their procedures tell them to do. The employees did what they could with what was given to them. The next step is calling in Police. That is policy when dealing with a non compliant passenger. The police actions, well that's another story.

[/QUOTE]


Anyhow. As I said many times before, I'm not arguing. I'm trying to set you straight with actual facts. Take them in if you want, I would rather move on.

[mr_chin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhZQeS_Kozw

I feel like Dao's gonna get quite a bit of money from this.

There's also a video showing Dao on the phone just before he was pulled off.

[mr_chin]

No, in fact it's the only factual information out there. Stop reading into the media's propaganda and look into real information. I know a tiny bit about women, a little about cars, but my actual knowledge is AVIATION. The reason I quit responding is due to the fact of the mob's of people jumping onto this like leeches and not letting go, disregarding real facts.

So let's walk through your list....

I guess you missed the page I posted. It posted some fairly relevant facts. The fact United supposedly did not secure seats for their staff is FALSE as far as we know. It is an unknown. United probably has 4500+ flights a day. Things go wrong, there is last minute changes. Crews are swapped, last minute bookings are made. These occurrences don't just happen multiple times daily, they happen hourly. If a change was required, and a crew needed to be on that plane now. That is not a fuck up. It's part of the business to keep it further going off the rails. 4 people get sacrificed for the good of the operation. Yes it sucks. But the domino effect which happens otherwise is exponential.

The ONLY scenario I have come across which could have possibly been United's fault is, if these crew members were booked far in advance. Their arrival flight was delayed, and now the gate agents decided to board anyhow (giving away their seat) and handing out the remaining seats as they assumed the crew would not make the flight. I then see some liability. But even then, they have the right to do as they please for the operation.


If there was an overbooking situation, it would have happened and been dealt with prior to boarding. I suspect this crew requirement was a last minute change. With half the information, you are correct. But this is not how airlines operate. It is not a normal thing to do, other factors are at play.
Did they not offer within the required amount? It seems to me, they did. It sounds cheap to me, but they did what was required.

Fair enough, but they don't require it. Bad move? Probably.

When did United use force? When they have the right to pull a passenger, and the passenger is not complying they did exactly what their procedures tell them to do. The employees did what they could with what was given to them. The next step is calling in Police. That is policy when dealing with a non compliant passenger. The police actions, well that's another story.

Anyhow. As I said many times before, I'm not arguing. I'm trying to set you straight with actual facts. Take them in if you want, I would rather move on.

So much wrong in this post just shows you don't actually know the facts. Watch the video and listen to what the attorney says. He basically explained everything in regards to those topics, and probably has the evidence to back it up.

[carisear]

United probably has 4500+ flights a day. Things go wrong, there is last minute changes. Crews are swapped, last minute bookings are made. These occurrences don't just happen multiple times daily, they happen hourly. If a change was required, and a crew needed to be on that plane now. That is not a fuck up. It's part of the business to keep it further going off the rails. 4 people get sacrificed for the good of the operation. Yes it sucks. But the domino effect which happens otherwise is exponential.


sounds to me like this is just plainly a bad business model, if hourly you have to reschedule / inconvenience customers. It may not be a 'fuck up' in their operational playbook, but it definitely is a fuck up on their policy.

[nsx042003]

Do "social media people" live in a cave or something? Which airline don't overbook?

Ask any airline.

And why isn't that security company in shit?

[Jmac]

Do "social media people" live in a cave or something? Which airline don't overbook?

Ask any airline.

And why isn't that security company in shit?
Ask any airline. Any real airline.

http://i.imgur.com/AveSkcD.jpg

[hud 91gt]

So much wrong in this post just shows you don't actually know the facts. Watch the video and listen to what the attorney says. He basically explained everything in regards to those topics, and probably has the evidence to back it up.

The man is completely correct. Wouldn't it be great, if corporate america did this and that. Yes. I agree with you 100%.

I am stating facts of how airlines work. The video you posted is obviously one sided. He brought up a great point, one in which I have no idea about. The fact United is responsible for the police actions. If that's the law, that's the law. I have no idea. I'm not a lawyer. I'm generally curious about his comment of the flight crew allowing the police actions on board with excessive force. The door is still open on the aircraft. That's a pretty grey area.

I am stating what the policy of airlines are. Clarifying the false facts and accusations so perhaps everyone will have a real idea of what is happening. Take it with a grain of salt if you want.




As for the next poster, and about the business model. I'd say it would be a difficult thing to manage otherwise. I won't argue. I'm stating facts.

[ImportPsycho]

Reminds me of.... whatever happened to the old man who got dragged down the stairs by coqitlam rcmp, because he refused to leave the strata meeting?

Anyway, i was surprised to see UA CEO saying Dr. did nothing wrong on the tv interview.. i thought he would avoid answering that question... this Dr. Gonna get RICH! Ppl who took the video should ask for some share lol

[flagella]

To those who repeatedly bring out contract to justify this, you are a fucking idiot and I hope your work doesn't consist of any responsibilities that impact people's life.

United learned the lesson the hard way, that the court of public opinion will buttfuck you hard if your actions are unreasonable, even if they were allowed to remove the passenger under contract of carriage.

[Speed2K]

Lol, yeah, not sure why people are still defending United when their CEO admitted they indeed, made a mistake.

[twitchyzero]

Stop reading into the media's propaganda and look into real information.


what propaganda? What does the media gain from taking down one the biggest airlines?

If anything, media has been digging up dirt on the physician. As if the security and airline knew about his past that influenced how he was treated as a passenger.

[twitchyzero]

looks like people are trying to cash in on United being in the spotlight haha

United Airlines staff 'forced frail grandma, 94, out of £2,800 Business seat into Economy for 16-hour flight' (http://www.msn.com/en-ca/travel/news/united-airlines-staff-forced-frail-grandma-94-out-of-%C2%A32800-business-seat-into-economy-for-16-hour-flight/ar-BBzPac6?li=AAadgLE&ocid=spartandhp)

[Traum]

what propaganda? What does the media gain from taking down one the biggest airlines?

If anything, media has been digging up dirt on the physician. As if the security and airline knew about his past that influenced how he was treated as a passenger.
It's the media. They crave for and thrive on this stuff. It's in their nature.

[type-j]

Looks like delta increased their offer for passenger's who give up their seat. $10,000! [emoji54]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/delta-overbooked-compensation-1.4071453

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[threezero]

what propaganda? What does the media gain from taking down one the biggest airlines?

If anything, media has been digging up dirt on the physician. As if the security and airline knew about his past that influenced how he was treated as a passenger.

clicks, view, more clicks, more views

to be fair the media is digging up dirt from both side of the story

[FerrariEnzo]

Looks like delta increased their offer for passenger's who give up their seat. $10,000! [emoji54]

Delta will offer up to $9,950 to flyers who give up seats, United changes its policy - World - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/delta-overbooked-compensation-1.4071453)

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Delta said gate agents can offer up to $2,000, up from a previous maximum of $800, and supervisors can offer up to $9,950, up from $1,350.

[hchang]

To those who repeatedly bring out contract to justify this, you are a fucking idiot and I hope your work doesn't consist of any responsibilities that impact people's life.

United learned the lesson the hard way, that the court of public opinion will buttfuck you hard if your actions are unreasonable, even if they were allowed to remove the passenger under contract of carriage.

I'm sorry but whenever you enter a place of business, they have the right to refuse service. They have a right to tell you to leave their property.

McDonalds can kick you out if you throw a tantrum because you didn't get enough fries.

Walmart can kick you out if you try to return the tampons you bought because they didn't fix you being a little bitch.

A bar can kick you out for whatever reason they come up with, if you don't leave on your own free will, the bouncers will forcibly remove you, if you cause more grief, the police will be called and come for your ass.

You're at the mercy of wherever you CHOSE to go to spend money. Is that right? I don't know, but it is what it is.

[Ferra]

I'm sorry but whenever you enter a place of business, they have the right to refuse service. They have a right to tell you to leave their property.

McDonalds can kick you out if you throw a tantrum because you didn't get enough fries.

Walmart can kick you out if you try to return the tampons you bought because they didn't fix you being a little bitch.

A bar can kick you out for whatever reason they come up with, if you don't leave on your own free will, the bouncers will forcibly remove you, if you cause more grief, the police will be called and come for your ass.

You're at the mercy of wherever you CHOSE to go to spend money. Is that right? I don't know, but it is what it is.
You don't get it do you?
Just because something is legal doesn't make it right...

[hchang]

You don't get it do you?
Just because something is legal doesn't make it right...

I understand that part, but at some point in life you have to grow up and realize how the world works, and the world does not revolve around YOU. If you miss your flight you're the only one inconvenienced, tough luck. Had they kept their employees back, it would've caused flight delays at the airplanes they were supposed to go attend to, inconveniencing more than just YOU. Laws and regulations are put into place with the right intentions in mind, to protect people, to make the earth rotate.

It is what it fucking is, not a damn thing we can do to change that.

If it hurts your feelings when something doesn't go your way..... Get a stronger backbone or develop thicker skin. How did you even make it this far in life??

[syee]

They have a right to refuse service - it's just how they carried out that refusal which is the problem.

Having cops drag people out kicking and screaming isn't the way to do it, especially when the passenger posed no physical threat.

[hchang]

He ran back onto the plane after being removed.

If you resist arrest do you think police officers will be kind to you?

They'll throw you on the ground for not complying, twist your arm, break your fingers. You're at their mercy at that point.

If you're given a lawful order, do it.

K.eep
I.t
S.imple
S.tupid

[Jmac]

Life moves fast
https://www.revscene.net/forums/621315-cops-attitude.html

[hchang]

^ Yup. Something called maturing. Don't worry it'll happen to you someday too.

[Ch28]

^ Yup. Something called maturing. Don't worry it'll happen to you someday too.

http://i.imgur.com/Jr5eBqH.gif

[IMASA]

https://media.giphy.com/media/RL0xU1daTlMoE/giphy.gif


EDIT: Damn, too soon.

Looks like another incident with airlines hitting passengers on an AA flight.

UA: We fucked up
AA: Hold my beer

American Airlines employee challenges passenger to FIGHT | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4434620/American-Airlines-employee-challenges-passenger-FIGHT.html)

[twitchyzero]

'it is what it is'

might just be the most vapid phrase of all time

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTg_9mb5HcZucYT0NQbmIisT0nROENFt YiMQt6pUakaXoEV7axmiYAgFX3e

[Great68]

He ran back onto the plane after being removed.

If you resist arrest do you think police officers will be kind to you?

They'll throw you on the ground for not complying, twist your arm, break your fingers. You're at their mercy at that point.

If you're given a lawful order, do it.

K.eep
I.t
S.imple
S.tupid

Why the fuck are you still arguing?

UA admitted they fucked up, apologized and raised their compensation levels to 10K. Passengers win, case over.

[bigzz786786]

I was already booked with UA from yvr to vegas before this all happened, connected to san Fransisco. My gf and i jist arrived back from vegas on monday (well tuesday morning).

Thursday we wanted to take the evening flight after work, we get there, our plane is 2 hours delayed due to "poor weather" and "ground traffic" so we miss our connecting flight to vegas. When we get close we still have to circle for 40 minutes before we land. When we landed, it wasnt even raining a lot, it was light rain compared to Vancouver weather, parts of the runway was dryish.

Then when we get into the airport, they tell us that they have rebooked our flights "complimentary" for tomorrow at 8am. They said they were not going to comp a hotel room since its not there fault and that we should just sleep in the airport somewhere. We asked for the UA customer service desk, they said its through security. There were no employees in the entire fucking airport to voice our concerns after midnight. So now i was calling the airline company; they said they dont handle hotel bookings and that it has to be done at the airport, basically im shit out of luck until an emplyee comes in at 5am. Then i asked them to confirm the flight for 8am departure. They said our tickets are not confirmed and that we are on standby only!!!! Wtf! So i demanded them to confirm our seats which we seemed to be the only ones who actually did. We saw the people from our flight that were going to vegas, they said they were told to be on standby​ until the airline has some available seats over the next few flights out.

When it was time to board, everyone got in, and they were doing some maintenance work which delayed us 40 mins. Then they told us the flight has to be cancelled cause the plane is grounded for good. Now 1 hour later theres an announcement that another plane is being brought in for us at a different gate. That plane takes another 45 minutes, then another 30 minutes till we finally take off. By the time we got to the hotel it was 2pm the next day.


Unfortunately on the way back we were stuck with UA and again connecting at san Fransisco to yvr 4pm flight with a 4 hour layover. The plane was delayed 2.5 hours, then we get to san Fransisco and waiting for the plane to yvr was delayed another hour; This flight was over fucking booked and 3 people had to forfeit there seats!! Not for employees this time, just that they simply overbooked with too many people!!!!. Anyway, it was 1:30am by the time we got home.

After all the ordeal, UA said nothing, no apology, no compensation, nothing!

From now on, i dont care about cheapest flight. I read somewhere that UA flights connecting through san Francisco are delayed over 60% of the time!

[Mikoyan]

SFO weather delays are usually fog related I believe.

[dark0821]

I was already booked with UA from yvr to vegas before this all happened, connected to san Fransisco. My gf and i jist arrived back from vegas on monday (well tuesday morning).

Thursday we wanted to take the evening flight after work, we get there, our plane is 2 hours delayed due to "poor weather" and "ground traffic" so we miss our connecting flight to vegas. When we get close we still have to circle for 40 minutes before we land. When we landed, it wasnt even raining a lot, it was light rain compared to Vancouver weather, parts of the runway was dryish.

Then when we get into the airport, they tell us that they have rebooked our flights "complimentary" for tomorrow at 8am. They said they were not going to comp a hotel room since its not there fault and that we should just sleep in the airport somewhere. We asked for the UA customer service desk, they said its through security. There were no employees in the entire fucking airport to voice our concerns after midnight. So now i was calling the airline company; they said they dont handle hotel bookings and that it has to be done at the airport, basically im shit out of luck until an emplyee comes in at 5am. Then i asked them to confirm the flight for 8am departure. They said our tickets are not confirmed and that we are on standby only!!!! Wtf! So i demanded them to confirm our seats which we seemed to be the only ones who actually did. We saw the people from our flight that were going to vegas, they said they were told to be on standby​ until the airline has some available seats over the next few flights out.

When it was time to board, everyone got in, and they were doing some maintenance work which delayed us 40 mins. Then they told us the flight has to be cancelled cause the plane is grounded for good. Now 1 hour later theres an announcement that another plane is being brought in for us at a different gate. That plane takes another 45 minutes, then another 30 minutes till we finally take off. By the time we got to the hotel it was 2pm the next day.


Unfortunately on the way back we were stuck with UA and again connecting at san Fransisco to yvr 4pm flight with a 4 hour layover. The plane was delayed 2.5 hours, then we get to san Fransisco and waiting for the plane to yvr was delayed another hour; This flight was over fucking booked and 3 people had to forfeit there seats!! Not for employees this time, just that they simply overbooked with too many people!!!!. Anyway, it was 1:30am by the time we got home.

After all the ordeal, UA said nothing, no apology, no compensation, nothing!

From now on, i dont care about cheapest flight. I read somewhere that UA flights connecting through san Francisco are delayed over 60% of the time!


holy shit... damn, definitely going to think twice before booking any flights that has a connection flight... god damn...

[syee]

holy shit... damn, definitely going to think twice before booking any flights that has a connection flight... god damn...

Sometimes you just don't have a choice though. Next time you pick flights, see which airline has a hub at your destination. You're more likely to get a direct flight that way, or at the very least, there's more planes available if there's any issues with your aircraft. Also, if you've got connections, try book your flights for a morning departure as early as you can. Delays will happen throughout the day, and with the rate at which planes are turned over for their next flight, the delays just accumulate.

Weather delays suck, but those aren't airline specific. Any airline coming into the airport is going to run into the same delays. bigzz situation sucks -
not to let UA off the hook, but don't most credit cards offer some sort of trip delay/cancellation insurance that would apply in this case? You could get a hotel and have the cc reimburse it.

I personally haven't had very many bad experiences with UA - and I do fly them a majority of the time since most of the time, I'm flying to one of their hub cities. I've had worse experiences with the low cost airlines (Allegiant, Sunwing)

[pastarocket]

Wow, what the hell is happening with the U.S. aviation industry??

Flight attendant allegedly hits a female passenger with a baby stroller, as he takes away the item in a violent manner before takeoff.

Then another passenger confronts the flight attendant. It almost becomes Flight Club in the economy seats section of the AA flight. :heckno:

Does World Star Hip Hop sponsor United Airlines and AA? :lawl: World Star! World Star!

https://youtu.be/8KuicmwiGAk

[twitchyzero]

just fly non-stop to vegas
not worth the hassle flying Allegiant or connecting in SFO

[StylinRed]

Wow, what the hell is happening with the U.S. aviation industry??

Flight attendant allegedly hits a female passenger with a baby stroller, as he takes away the item in a violent manner before takeoff.

Then another passenger confronts the flight attendant. It almost becomes Flight Club in the economy seats section of the AA flight. :heckno:

Does World Star Hip Hop sponsor United Airlines and AA? :lawl: World Star! World Star!

https://youtu.be/8KuicmwiGAk
Doesn't look like economy, that's right by the cockpit no?

[AzNightmare]

Life moves fast
https://www.revscene.net/forums/621315-cops-attitude.html

Sometimes traumatic things happen in life and can scar people's perspective forever.
It's no different from people growing up from an abusive family or being sexually abused at a young age, etc.

It's very sad. FeelsBadMan

[shawnly1000]

United Airlines reaches settlement with passenger who was dragged off plane - Apr. 27, 2017 (http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/27/news/companies/united-airlines-dao-settlement/index.html?sr=twCNN042717united-airlines-dao-settlement0722PMVODtopPhoto&linkId=36968766)

[Presto]

That was fast.

[6o4__boi]

Dr. Dao be like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8DyS7UoEvc

[twitchyzero]

suing culture in America can be ridiculous but in this case I hope he got millions

[bigzz786786]

Anyone else who's a united member got an email of apology?

Total crap. They apologized for this incident but do nothing for the bullshit that they put me through. Granted the dude getting dragged off is miles worse but they say they are gonna do right to future customers and yet i didnt get shit for what they put me through.

Heres the letter from my email. The title was "actions speak louder than words". I left out my name and the CEO's signature.


"Each flight you take with us represents an important promise we make to you, our customer. It's not simply that we make sure you reach your destination safely and on time, but also that you will be treated with the highest level of service and the deepest sense of dignity and respect.

Earlier this month, we broke that trust when a passenger was forcibly removed from one of our planes. We can never say we are sorry enough for what occurred, but we also know meaningful actions will speak louder than words.

For the past several weeks, we have been urgently working to answer two questions: How did this happen, and how can we do our best to ensure this never happens again?

It happened because our corporate policies were placed ahead of our shared values. Our procedures got in the way of our employees doing what they know is right.

Fixing that problem starts now with changing how we fly, serve and respect our customers. This is a turning point for all of us here at United – and as CEO, it's my responsibility to make sure that we learn from this experience and redouble our efforts to put our customers at the center of everything we do.

That’s why we announced that we will no longer ask law enforcement to remove customers from a flight and customers will not be required to give up their seat once on board – except in matters of safety or security.

We also know that despite our best efforts, when things don’t go the way they should, we need to be there for you to make things right. There are several new ways we’re going to do just that.

We will increase incentives for voluntary rebooking up to $10,000 and will be eliminating the red tape on permanently lost bags with a new "no-questions-asked" $1,500 reimbursement policy. We will also be rolling out a new app for our employees that will enable them to provide on-the-spot goodwill gestures in the form of miles, travel credit and other amenities when your experience with us misses the mark. You can learn more about these commitments and many other changes at hub.united.com.

While these actions are important, I have found myself reflecting more broadly on the role we play and the responsibilities we have to you and the communities we serve.

I believe we must go further in redefining what United's corporate citizenship looks like in our society. You can and ought to expect more from us, and we intend to live up to those higher expectations in the way we embody social responsibility and civic leadership everywhere we operate. I hope you will see that pledge express itself in our actions going forward, of which these initial, though important, changes are merely a first step.

Our goal should be nothing less than to make you truly proud to say, "I fly United."

Ultimately, the measure of our success is your satisfaction and the past several weeks have moved us to go further than ever before in elevating your experience with us. I know our 87,000 employees have taken this message to heart, and they are as energized as ever to fulfill our promise to serve you better with each flight and earn the trust you’ve given us.

We are working harder than ever for the privilege to serve you and I know we will be stronger, better and the customer-focused airline you expect and deserve."

[Jmac]

It's a gesture to attempt to mitigate the damage to their public reputation/CEO trying to save his job.

[Manic!]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7pM8IyxpTc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeWlsSkQ0kc

[Verdasco]

the asian doctor got $2.5 million according to my friend who flew in a boston flight with a lawyer of Dr. Tran. The lawyer was sitting beside her

she lives in new york and flies to boston daily on first class so take it with a grain of salt.

[Anjew]

I wonder if its deltas fault for being greedy they want to resell the seat or the employee for being a brainless automaton?

[winson604]

Overselling seats is pure greed if you ask me. Ok sure, planes often have some people not show up but you've already secured money for all the seats right? Why bother selling a hand full more, sure it adds up but it's relatively small money in the grand scheme of things right? Or am I looking at this the wrong way?

[Presto]

The practice of overselling ensures that 100% of available supply will be used resulting in the maximum return on investment. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overselling)

[syee]

Overselling seats is pure greed if you ask me. Ok sure, planes often have some people not show up but you've already secured money for all the seats right? Why bother selling a hand full more, sure it adds up but it's relatively small money in the grand scheme of things right? Or am I looking at this the wrong way?

Not necessarily. Not all tickets sold are non refundable. Passengers who have status with the airline can often cancel/rebook a flight with little to no penalty. Same with higher fare classes.

Yes, they've sold the seat, but if the passenger cancels or changes a flight with short notice, then they'll be left with an empty seat which won't earn them any money. They oversell so they can fill these seats and make the most revenue on the flight.

[Great68]

Overselling seats is pure greed if you ask me. Ok sure, planes often have some people not show up but you've already secured money for all the seats right? Why bother selling a hand full more, sure it adds up but it's relatively small money in the grand scheme of things right? Or am I looking at this the wrong way?

Come on! Those poor Airlines are just trying to maximize their profits (using unethical practices at the expense of their customers)! They're businesses after all! (see page 1 of this thread)

[winson604]

Not necessarily. Not all tickets sold are non refundable. Passengers who have status with the airline can often cancel/rebook a flight with little to no penalty. Same with higher fare classes.

Yes, they've sold the seat, but if the passenger cancels or changes a flight with short notice, then they'll be left with an empty seat which won't earn them any money. They oversell so they can fill these seats and make the most revenue on the flight.

Ok, makes sense. Still that's pretty shitty.

I'm not against overselling exactly but to bump someone who's on the plane because perhaps their tickets was bought at a cheaper rate or however they determine who to kick off is retarded.

I would much rather they have something where when you are buying your ticket it states up front that the ticket is an overbooked ticket and there's a chance you may not actually get on the plane period. So really a first come first serve thing.

[syee]

Ok, makes sense. Still that's pretty shitty.

I'm not against overselling exactly but to bump someone who's on the plane because perhaps their tickets was bought at a cheaper rate or however they determine who to kick off is retarded.

I would much rather they have something where when you are buying your ticket it states up front that the ticket is an overbooked ticket and there's a chance you may not actually get on the plane period. So really a first come first serve thing.

This practice of bumping passengers is what the biggest issue is, and I'm glad it's being brought to light in these videos. In all of these videos, we see the passenger is being forced off the plane with what we can tell with little no compensation.

I'm sure if they waved enough money in front of someone, you'd get a volunteer to give up their seat. For Delta to take away the seat that they said they paid for just because the passenger is a baby is pretty shady though. The very least they could do is offer to refund them the money for the seat if they were to give it up rather than quote trivial technicalities to force them to give up their seat (and boot them off the plane)

[Great68]

I would much rather they have something where when you are buying your ticket it states up front that the ticket is an overbooked ticket and there's a chance you may not actually get on the plane period. So really a first come first serve thing.

They used to call that flying standby.
It became more lucrative for Airlines to just bait & switch instead.

Let everyone think they were getting on board, should there turn out to be not enough seats for everyone worry about inconveniencing them afterwards.

At the very least there should be no ceiling for compensation.
The offer should go up in $500 increments until someone volunteers. If it takes $10,000, $20,000, $100,000 to get someone to volunteer than that's what it should cost the airline for their gambles.

[Rallydrv]

corporate greed ( america, (air Canada included)

was on a jet flight from Bangalore to Bombay, 1:30hr flight and we got fre dinner (lol, i was surprised)

[AzNightmare]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7pM8IyxpTc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeWlsSkQ0kc

I'm once again confused about the situation.
He paid for the seat. The Airline profited from that seat.

Why are they being removed?? I wasn't able to make out everything that was said.

[syee]

I'm once again confused about the situation.
He paid for the seat. The Airline profited from that seat.

Why are they being removed?? I wasn't able to make out everything that was said.

I think they were removing them on the technicality that the passenger seated in the seat wasn't the passenger on the manifest. (they mention that the older son whose name was on there took an earlier flight) I'm guessing they were using this to strong arm them out of the seat.

Either a Delta rep or TSA screwed up here since I would think someone would have to check ID and match the names before issuing a boarding pass.

[whitev70r]

What I don't understand is how this isn't settled before passengers are boarded on the damn plane. If you oversell, offer compensation while passengers are in the waiting/boarding area, sort it all out before you let passengers board! You should know if you've oversold ... what 30 mins before take off, and that you need a few to give up their seats (for $$$ of course). Don't do it after passenger is on the damn plane. It's like WTH ... now you want me to get off and you're going to hunt down my luggage from the cargo area , hold up the whole plane ... that's just stupid as stupid can be !?!?

[dnakamora]

Its funny how after that incident the ticket prices for united airlines went cheaper. Eitherway United and Delta airlines give shit service even before that incident

[winson604]

What I don't understand is how this isn't settled before passengers are boarded on the damn plane. If you oversell, offer compensation while passengers are in the waiting/boarding area, sort it all out before you let passengers board! You should know if you've oversold ... what 30 mins before take off, and that you need a few to give up their seats (for $$$ of course). Don't do it after passenger is on the damn plane. It's like WTH ... now you want me to get off and you're going to hunt down my luggage from the cargo area , hold up the whole plane ... that's just stupid as stupid can be !?!?

In all my years of flying I only encountered such a scenario once and that was 3 months ago via West Jet when I was flying back from Honolulu for a late night flight. We were in the boarding area and they asked about 5 times over the course of an hour if anyone would be willing to stay an extra night with accommodations paid and if interested talk to the staff for further details. Nobody budged and staff never pushed the issue hard. I assume it was an overbook scenario but who knows.

[ImportPsycho]

I'm once again confused about the situation.
He paid for the seat. The Airline profited from that seat.

Why are they being removed?? I wasn't able to make out everything that was said.


it's bit of tricky situation...
Parents paid for their son's seat, but son took earlier flight(i'm guessing they bought another ticket for that earlier flight)
Seat was probably non-refundable discounted seat, so they decided ok too bad but extra room for the baby right?
Guess again, i could be wrong but even though father paid for the seat, his son is "no-show". In case of no-show seat, doesn't airline have right to resell the seat?
So father thinks he has right to the seat and refused to give up, airline thinks passenger didn't show up so it's up for grabs.

anyway regardless, after that happened with UA, I can't believe airlines are still kicking people off the plane for minor reasons...FailFish

[Digitalis]

On my last flight with delta I saw 2 people assigned the same seat. Luckly they made room for them even tho the flight was packed.

[Great68]

So the government has released a new bill C-47, which establishes a passengers' bill of rights and effectively bans involuntary removal of passengers due to overbooking.

Passenger bill of rights will set national standard for air travel - Politics - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/passenger-bill-of-rights-legislation-1.4116339)


The Trudeau government introduced legislation for a passenger bill of rights Tuesday, in a move that will set a national standard for how airline passengers are treated in Canada.

The goal of a passenger bill of rights is to make sure travellers know what they are entitled to expect in terms of service or compensation should their travel arrangements be disrupted by events within the airline's control.
...
The legislation lays out more rules for the industry to follow, spelling out in clear language that no one can be involuntarily removed from a plane due to overbooking.


Win!

:clap::clap::clap:

[syee]

It's a step in the right direction. The practice of overbooking will still remain though, but they just can't force you out once you're seated. I'm sure there will be "technicalities" like that family on the Delta flight where they'll get you for something else to force you to give up your seat.

[Great68]

It's a step in the right direction. The practice of overbooking will still remain though
Perhaps but,


but they just can't force you out once you're seated


No, it will be that they cannot even deny you from boarding if you hold a valid ticket:


The minister earlier told airlines operating in Canada such an incident is not to happen here, but he says his goal with the new legislation is to spell out clearly that a passenger who has purchased a ticket cannot be barred from a plane just because the airline sold too many seats.

“We have all heard recent news reports of shoddy treatment of air passengers,” Garneau said at a news conference. “Such incidents will not be tolerated in Canada. When Canadians buy an airline ticket, they expect the airline to keep its part of the deal.”

He said there will be minimum levels of compensation for people who voluntarily agree to be bumped from a flight and if airlines can't get a volunteer, they will have to decide if they want to up the ante to persuade someone to get off.




So essentially, "involuntary" removal will be illegal.


I'm sure there will be "technicalities" like that family on the Delta flight where they'll get you for something else to force you to give up your seat.

Don't know, will have to wait to see the entirety of the new legislation but I imagine they're going to close up many of the "technicalities".

[RRxtar]

coming soon from air canada: standing room only for overbooked seats?