[roastpuff]

Metro Vancouver mayor?s council sets up commission to introduce mobility pricing for drivers - BC | Globalnews.ca (http://globalnews.ca/news/3506156/metro-vancouver-mayors-council-to-release-details-on-charging-drivers-to-use-roads/)

Metro Vancouver has taken another step toward mobility pricing for drivers in the region.

Tuesday morning, the mayor’s council unveiled the Mobility Pricing Independent Commission, which is tasked with figuring out exactly how the new transit plan would work.

Mobility pricing has already been part of the 10-Year Vision for Metro Vancouver Transit and Transportation with the goal to reduce traffic congestion on roads and bridges, look at the fairness of tolling some bridges over others, and support transportation investment to improve the current transportation system.

The council says with one million more people expected to move into Metro Vancouver over the next 30 years, a plan needs to be put in place to move people around the region easier.

Mobility pricing has already been put in place in other cities like Stockholm, Singapore and Oregon and the independent commission will look at a variety of models to examine how best to get the system to work in Metro Vancouver.

Stockholm has a congestion tax in which a bill is sent to the registered owner of the vehicle when that vehicle drives past a control point. Singapore has had an urban congestion pricing scheme for many years and by 2020 the city hopes to have one based on a Global Navigation Satellite System, meaning the charge would be based on the distance, time, location and vehicle type. Oregon has implemented a road usage charge program, designed so drivers only pay by the mile and not the gallon. OReGO participants pay a per-mile fee of 1.5 cents instead of the traditional fuel tax, and receive a tax credit for fuel used.

Any further details about Metro Vancouver’s potential plan have not yet been released.

A small expert staff team, supported by technical consultants, will support the research, analysis and public engagement for the road pricing. This team will be led by internationally-recognized mobility pricing expert, Daniel Firth, who has been appointed Executive Director.

The commission will deliver recommendations to the TransLink Board and the mayors’ council by next spring. Members of the public will have the opportunity to have their say at public meetings across Metro Vancouver and online.

On some key commuter routes, the council found it is already taking drivers an additional 10 to 15 minutes longer to get to work than it did 10 years ago.

“Mobility pricing is a key pillar of the Mayors’ Council’s 10-Year Vision that could fix Metro Vancouver’s unfair user pricing regime, significantly reduce congestion, and deliver fair and stable funding for our transit and transportation network,” said Gregor Robertson, Mayor of Vancouver and chair, Mayors’ Council on Regional Transportation, in a release. “It’s crucial that people are able to move efficiently and affordably around our growing region using the route, time and mode that works best for them and for the transportation network overall. I look forward to hearing the Independent Commission’s recommendations on a made-in-Metro Vancouver mobility pricing system that will work for everyone.”

The mayors have previously pushed for mobility pricing, despite a previous lack of support from the provincial government. During the election campaign, the Green Party came out in favour of the model to help cut traffic congestion and the NDP stated it would work with mayors to build a framework for a transportation plan, including mobility pricing.

Meanwhile, on July 1, transit fares will increase between five and 10 cents.

Starting July 1:

• Single-use concession fares will increase by five cents and single-use adult fares will increase by 10 cents (this includes HandyDART).
• DayPass fares will increase by 25 cents.
• Monthly pass fares will increase between $1 and $2, depending on zone type.
• Fares for one-, two- and three-zone products will all increase by the same amount (this includes West Coast Express).
:rukidding::heckno:

Seriously uncool. Not only do we get carbon tax, Translink tax etc... now road pricing?

[yray]

On some key commuter routes, the council found it is already taking drivers an additional 10 to 15 minutes longer to get to work than it did 10 years ago.

Yea, maybe stop building bike lanes

[twitchyzero]

move to the burbs because housing costs are less ridic
sit in traffic
pay for tolls & control points
rapid transit still non-existent outside some tricities area

sounds about right :badpokerface:

[MarkyMark]

They can fuck right off with this, didn't our taxes already pay for the roads now they want to make a fee to drive on them too?

Once again who gets fucked on this, the people who can afford to live close to work, or the people who have to move further away just to afford a place and drive further.

[carisear]

Fuck gregor and everyone who voted for that corrupt lying piece of shit.

[Bouncing Bettys]

The majority of patients to Children's Hospital, my son included - until recently thankfully, come from outside the City of Vancouver. When time is of the essence, and visits could be anywhere from 10 minutes to admittance overnight or days, public transit is simply not an option when you have young children, bags, medical equipment, etc to haul around. Visits are expensive enough with gas, food, parking (should be criminal to have pay parking at any hospital), hotels (being placed low priority on a long wait list for Ronald McDonald house based on proximity), tolls, taking time off work, etc. Those mostly upfront costs add up fast and can be pretty hard on families living paycheque to paycheque to endure before waiting months to possibly recoup costs.

Decisions like these are self serving to this mayor and I can only imagine the kickbacks he will receive from those who stand to benefit, which certainly won't be the middle class and poor.

Will this not hurt tourism and businesses in the city?

[320icar]

Welp, maybe time to speed up my 5 year plan of moving to either Nanaimo or courtenay

[6o4__boi]

or just get more people to show up at the municipal elections to actually elect competent mayors/representatives of their city

instead of these fuckfaces sitting in the Mayors council

i fucking hate Moonbeam with a passion and the only reason he keeps getting elected is because no one votes in Van except old people who are content to keep voting the same old fucks they see

[Liquid_o2]

They can fuck right off with this, didn't our taxes already pay for the roads now they want to make a fee to drive on them too?

Once again who gets fucked on this, the people who can afford to live close to work, or the people who have to move further away just to afford a place and drive further.

The argument could be made that our taxes pay for building public transit, but we have to pay a fee to use that as well...

[Manic!]

The argument could be made that our taxes pay for building public transit, but we have to pay a fee to use that as well...

When you drive a car you still have to pay for gas, insurance an maintenance.

Welp, maybe time to speed up my 5 year plan of moving to either Nanaimo or courtenay

Nanaimo real estate is on fire right now. So you better hurry.

[murd0c]

I'm happy I moved out of the GVRD right now :fuckyea:

[Traum]

Until we actually see some detail of what the plans might entail, I think it's too early to start bitching right away. But like most of you, I don't expect anything good to come out of it.

Potentially, maybe there is a 1% chance that a nominal toll would be applied to all bridges within the Lower Mainland, and that is something I would support. But like I said, I don't really expect any good things to come out of this council. My wallet is only going to get raped more by these fucktards.

[Ch28]

If they end up tolling all the bridges then GG to Richmond.

[jackmeister]

the NPA need to get their shit together and find a candidate NOW. That way when we Vancouverites vote, we actually know who the god damn candidate is.

[Tapioca]

Vancouver is not Metro Vancouver.

Even if Gregor is voted out, this won't change what the other 20 mayors of Metro Vancouver want to do.

Look at the number of cars on the road these days. Look at the amount of people here in the region. Something needs to be done. Mobility pricing may not be the right thing, but so far, no one else here has proposed anything to relieve congestion.

[Blueboy222]

https://media.makeameme.org/created/thats-great-news-5wvd8c.jpg

[Jmac]

The majority of patients to Children's Hospital, my son included - until recently thankfully, come from outside the City of Vancouver. When time is of the essence, and visits could be anywhere from 10 minutes to admittance overnight or days, public transit is simply not an option when you have young children, bags, medical equipment, etc to haul around. Visits are expensive enough with gas, food, parking (should be criminal to have pay parking at any hospital), hotels (being placed low priority on a long wait list for Ronald McDonald house based on proximity), tolls, taking time off work, etc. Those mostly upfront costs add up fast and can be pretty hard on families living paycheque to paycheque to endure before waiting months to possibly recoup costs.

Decisions like these are self serving to this mayor and I can only imagine the kickbacks he will receive from those who stand to benefit, which certainly won't be the middle class and poor.

Will this not hurt tourism and businesses in the city?
On most days at the hospital I work at, you're probably going to spend at least 10-15 minutes looking for a parking spot if you're getting there between 8 AM and 2 PM. And that's with pay parking. I couldn't even begin to imagine how bad it would be without pay parking.

[Traum]

Going along with the pay-per-use / user pays principle, wouldn't it be simplest to just apply a goddamned per km charge on annual licensing and/or insurance? And then on top of it, you slap a nominal bridge toll on every single bridge or tunnel within Metro Vancouver. And then if you still want to reduce traffic / congestion (say in DT area), you apply yet another congestion charge like London does.

None of this is rocket science, and some of it has already been used elsewhere in the world with at least some measure of success. As something that is suggested collectively by the Mayor's Council, no single mayor would have to bear the exclusive responsibility (and voter backlash) as a result.

[Gnomes]

move to the burbs because housing costs are less ridic
sit in traffic
pay for tolls & control points
rapid transit still non-existent outside some tricities area

sounds about right :badpokerface:

That sure sounds right. Long run, the lower and middle income earners who drives daily far commute will be the ones who will hurt the most from this. Or take translink and pay with time sitting/waiting/transferring in bus.

[Great68]

wouldn't it be simplest to just apply a goddamned per km charge on annual licensing and/or insurance?

Not that simple.

How are you going to calculate the kms? Odometer reading? Can be faked, and what are you going to do if someone takes road trip out of town? How are you going to differentiate that mileage?

[320icar]

GPS trackers. But as anyone who watches top gear will remember.
If they know where you are, they know how fast you are going

[Great68]

GPS trackers. But as anyone who watches top gear will remember.
If they know where you are, they know how fast you are going

Would open up all sorts of privacy issues, can still be tampered with, and completely exclude fees from any vehicles not residing in Metro Vancouver

[Digitalis]

Can't imagine why raising the price of gas isn't enough. They want to do tax by the mile so they have an excuse to track your movements and next thing u know your getting tickets in the mail. No thanks.

[tiger_handheld]

what is the requirement to become a mayor?

[twitchyzero]

yellow fever

[MrPhreak]

Vancouver is not Metro Vancouver.

Even if Gregor is voted out, this won't change what the other 20 mayors of Metro Vancouver want to do.

Look at the number of cars on the road these days. Look at the amount of people here in the region. Something needs to be done. Mobility pricing may not be the right thing, but so far, no one else here has proposed anything to relieve congestion.

It isn't really about congestion in the end, it is about creating a new feel-good-tax to shore up city coffers

On another note, I also don't understand how Gregor even got in. The guy is flat out funded by Tides, which has a very specific agenda of installing politicians with generalized platforms so they can then aggressively change public policy against the will of the public.

He literally has no interest in serving the people of Vancouver, his entire purpose in office is built entirely around furthering the agenda of what is basically a small right wing group of environmental nut jobs. It is one of the most undemocratic and underhanded tactics I've seen these groups take over the years.

It plays out like a conspiracy theory, which is why I think people are reluctant to believe it. There is at least some good journalism exposing it getting published though. For example:

Who?s funding Mayor Robertson? | Financial Post (http://business.financialpost.com/fp-comment/whos-funding-mayor-robertson)

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/asking-some-fair-questions-of-tides-canada/article4105885/

$520,000 in Support of Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson's Political Career with the NDP & Vision Vancouver - Rethink Campaigns (http://fairquestions.typepad.com/rethink_campaigns/gregor-robertson-campaign-finance.html)

It would be nice if we could elect a mayor that actually stands up for the values and beliefs of Vancouverites for once

[Traum]

Not that simple.

How are you going to calculate the kms? Odometer reading? Can be faked, and what are you going to do if someone takes road trip out of town? How are you going to differentiate that mileage?
I'd say it depends entirely on how you look at the charge. If you maintain the view that the kms must entirely be done within Metro Vancouver for the charge to be applicable, then it is indeed difficult to calculate the kms without using some sort of modern GPS technology. However, even in our current scheme of things, the gas taxes do not work out like this. Let's say someone living in Mission always purchases his gas from Maple Ridge where the carbon tax (on gas) still applies, but he does the majority of his driving in Mission eastward. Is the amount of money he paid in carbon tax correlating to his vehicle usage?

If you look at the charge as being levied on someone with his vehicle registration address in the Lower Mainland, then the kms issue goes away. It basically becomes a fee for registering your vehicle in the Lower Mainland. The rationale here could be, if you are registering a vehicle in LM, you have to shoulder a portion of the (road) infrastructure costs. It becomes kind of like property tax, where the owner would have to pay property tax regardless of how often he actually lives at that address.

As to odometer tempering, it is already illegal, and can be dealt with using our current odometer rollback laws.

[MarkyMark]

I wonder what the price per km would be if they went that route.

I think it's more likely that they will put cameras up in the most congested areas and toll people the same way they do on the bridges.

[Great68]

If you look at the charge as being levied on someone with his vehicle registration address in the Lower Mainland, then the kms issue goes away. It basically becomes a fee for registering your vehicle in the Lower Mainland. The rationale here could be, if you are registering a vehicle in LM, you have to shoulder a portion of the (road) infrastructure costs. It becomes kind of like property tax, where the owner would have to pay property tax regardless of how often he actually lives at that address.


The entire reason of moving to road pricing is to more fairly distribute the costs of using Metro Vancouver's road infrastructure to those that use it the most.

If you're looking at it that way, you're not any better off than you were before and why bother changing the system at all?

[kross9]

just my 2 cents

why not charge a low amount for tolling? Like $0.5-$1.50 each way. That's more incising than 3.5 each way and long term more sustainable for the folks who have to commute said toll each day. Much better than the 3.50 each way 7 a day... $1680 a year just to get to and fro work

[hotjoint]

just my 2 cents

why not charge a low amount for tolling? Like $0.5-$1.50 each way. That's more incising than 3.5 each way and long term more sustainable for the folks who have to commute said toll each day. Much better than the 3.50 each way 7 a day... $1680 a year just to get to and fro work

That would be the smart thing to do but unfortunately our government isn't that smart. It doesn't take a college/university degree to figure that out. I've always said that they should toll EVERY bridge $1 to pay for shit until it's paid off then remove it.

[Infiniti]

That would be the smart thing to do but unfortunately our government isn't that smart. It doesn't take a college/university degree to figure that out. I've always said that they should toll EVERY bridge $1 to pay for shit until it's paid off then remove it.

Is it though? Im sure that based on the figures the government has at its disposal concerning these pieces of infrastructure, they must've calculated some type of timeline upon which they would hope to pay it off (taking into account, inflation, borrowing costs...) At $1.00, its probably not high enough to fulfill they requirements within their specific timeline whereas at $3.50 they can maintain their projected timeline. Unfortunately, its all in the details and we as citizens don't really have access to those documents that outline in specific detail the goverment's plan for financing these projects.

[Traum]

The idea of tolling every bridge in the region is more of a traffic reduction / management measure instead of a calculation to determine how soon a given piece of infrastructure is to be paid off. So we are really talking about 2 different solutions for 2 different issues, even though both involve tolling and public infrastructure.

[ImportPsycho]

Article conveniently left out the fact that we already pay highest gas tax in NA?World? And bullshit translink tax?

[Ch28]

I've always said that they should toll EVERY bridge $1 to pay for shit until it's paid off then remove it.

Just like how the Vancouver parking meters were bumped up to 10pm "just for the Olympics" in which case it would then roll back to 8pm?

[Jmac]

Article conveniently left out the fact that we already pay highest gas tax in NA?World? And bullshit translink tax?
Metro Vancouver doesn't pay anywhere near the highest gas taxes in the world. North America seems plausible.

[hotjoint]

Just like how the Vancouver parking meters were bumped up to 10pm "just for the Olympics" in which case it would then roll back to 8pm?

You got me there :lol