[thumper]

is there any hope for this family, or are they truly screwed? :(

Lost car key could cost Surrey couple thousands of dollars | CTV Vancouver News (http://bc.ctvnews.ca/lost-car-key-could-cost-surrey-couple-thousands-of-dollars-1.3448713)

CTV Vancouver
Published Wednesday, June 7, 2017 6:15PM PDT

A Surrey family was on vacation in Victoria when they found themselves locked out of their new Toyota minivan.


https://www.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1.3448731.1496884485!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_225/image.jpg

Maria and John Higgins took their family to B.C.'s capital in their new Estima, a hybrid imported from Japan.
"It was a wonderful family vacation and then in one second it turned into a nightmare," Maria told CTV News on Wednesday.
The Higgins family is offering a $500 reward for safe return of their key so they don't have to sell the van for parts.

The "nightmare" began on a sunset stroll Friday along Wharf Street, somewhere between The Keg and The Local.
John was holding the van's key in his hand, but he put it down to help his son Riley tie his shoes. Within minutes, they realized the key was missing.

"We went back and they weren’t there," Higgins said.
"We just went round and round in circles," his wife added.

Like many modern vehicles, the Toyota key has a special transponder chip inside, John explained, which means even if they broke into their own car, the ignition would be disabled without it.

And when they bought their van less than a month ago at Velocity Cars in Burnaby, they were only given a single key.
Since they couldn’t find the key, they decided to leave the van parked in Victoria, and hope for good news when they called Toyota on Monday.
But back on the mainland, things got worse.
Because the van was imported used from Japan, the Higgins said, they were told that there was no way to replace that key anywhere in North America.
"Yesterday I got a call from a dealer in Bellingham who services imported Toyotas," John said. "And he said, the only way Toyota will cut you a new key is if your van is physically in a Toyota dealer in Japan."

And when they called Velocity Cars, which specializes in Japanese imports, they were told the same thing.
"If he had given me this key, and said 'Guard this key with your life. It’s the only way to get into your car,' maybe we would have looked at things a little differently," Higgins said.

Velocity Cars General Manager Serge Mozgovoy told CTV that they’re doing everything they can to help the family find a solution.
The Higgins say every time they come up with possible fix, their hopes are dashed.

"I've got three mechanics calling people in Japan," John said.
"John's been up all night watching YouTube," Maria added.

But videos he's found online have both convinced that they may need a hacker to help them get into their van.

"We have to find some guru who knows how to reset this stuff without frying the whole thing," Maria said. "Somebody on this planet must understand this stuff. I don’t know where that person is."

The Higgins are offering a $500 reward for safe return of their key. Otherwise, they say, the vehicle may have to be sold for parts, and they’ll be out thousands of dollars.

They ask its finder to contact them at 604-616-8384.

With a report from CTV Vancouver's David Molko

[Presto]

If it's like the Smart Key System for my Prius, they either need to find the key, or figure out what the serial number is. I doubt that the owner was ignorant to the importance of the key since he imported that vehicle, and probably did extensive research on it. He likely got lazy in producing another copy of the key.

[GabAlmighty]

Even with a VIN you can't get a key cut/made?

[ssjGoku69]

probably not. the VIN is available for anyone to see

[vitaminG]

With my bmw I had to show them my registration and id. I don't know why a dealership would need the physical vehicle there.

Pretty stupid to only have one key, I usually take two if I'm on a road trip

[DragonChi]

Yeah, it would be way easier to make a copy of the original key by copying its signal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARrlhlQiFzM

I wonder if they tried calling a locksmith.

[Manic!]

Some of the tech in new cars is just plan stupid.

key left in car. car locks. Tow guy hits the unlock with a long wire. Car will not open. Had to smash window.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmO17WCpUj4

[Yodamaster]

And people want to replace the mechanical links between you and the engine, transmission, brakes and steering with wires...

How long will it take until "I told you so" is a valid response to shit like this? I'll take my regular, steel, boring car keys thank you very much.

[Truenosan]

I work at a Toyota dealership. I can get a key code from a VIN# as long as it is a Canadian market Toyota. In order for me to cut a key from a VIN, we are required to prove that the vehicle belongs to the person. Insurance papers and drivers license are a must, or I cant do it.

I'm not sure what the Estima uses for keys, but it isn't completely hopeless. As long as you get the right key type, a new one could be made, however, that would involve recoding all the locks/ignition. As for the immobilizer, no idea if the dealerships can reprogram. Any local Toyota, it isn't an issue, however, with the JDM imports, it can get difficult.

And this is why I cannot stress this enough. If you lose one of your master keys, have another made ASAP. It will cost you a lot less on the long run.

Losing all master keys requires more work, and sometimes, a new ECU.

[twitchyzero]

the minivan is from the early 2000s
not exactly late model

[thumper]

i looked up 2000 toyota estima keys and this is what came up:

https://www.lelong.com.my/toyota-estima-2000-2005-acr-30-oem-car-key-casing-friendstore-152308570-2015-07-Sale-P.htm

https://76.my/Malaysia/toyota-estima-2000-2005-acr-30-oem-car-key-casing-friendstore-1303-26-friendstore@2.jpg

it looks the same as any toyota/lexus key from that era, at least on the outside.

my memory is fuzzy now, but i remember spending under $300 to get another master made for my mom's old rx300, and was able to program it using instructions online from the clublexus message boards with a generic unprogrammed blank from ebay, but i can't remember if you need one of the original master keys to pair with. i wonder if there is something similar for the estima.

[- kT]

^ looks the same yeah but the casing is useless without guts, which house the chip which starts the car. you can get a place to replace the lock cylinder and a key to match but that's still useless without the chip programmed to the cars ecu. it's odd that any toyota dealer can't do it but i guess since it's not even a van that was ever made on this side of the water..

also

"If he had given me this key, and said 'Guard this key with your life. It’s the only way to get into your car,' maybe we would have looked at things a little differently," Higgins said.

..how about being more careful with your key, knowing that it was the only one you were given?

[TouringTeg]

I wonder which Toyota dealer they called. The service advisor at Jim Pattison Toyota in Victoria basically told me to go pound sand when I mentioned I had a 94 Supra TT RHD that needed service. They refuse to touch anything imported from Japan.

I feel bad for them. I work in the area all the time and will do some looking along Wharf Street on Friday if time allows. It's possible someone picked it up then chucked it somewhere nearby. There is a large amount of street / homeless people in the area so who knows where it went.

[TOPEC]

key left in car. car locks. Tow guy hits the unlock with a long wire. Car will not open. Had to smash window.


pretty sure the button would've worked within the first 15mins or so of locking the car, but once the car goes into sleep mode, all electronics r disabled. do u want someone walking around with a long enough coat hanger to just casually unlock every car and go through peoples stuff? also, in that skota, im pretty sure the door lock actuators and handle are still mechanical, so the tow truck guy could've used a slim jim to try and unlock the car that way instead of breaking a glass, but of course he took the easy way out cus the repair bill is not on him.

[Truenosan]

With my bmw I had to show them my registration and id. I don't know why a dealership would need the physical vehicle there.

Pretty stupid to only have one key, I usually take two if I'm on a road trip

If the car has a factory immobilizer, the key needs to be programmed, regardless if it has a remote or not.

[sdubfid]

I bought Toyota tech stream on eBay/amazon for less than $25 to program my keys

[DragonChi]

does it have the estima model in it?

I wonder if there a JP model out there that does the same thing.

[TouringTeg]

Just spent my coffee break looking along the road, laneways, alleys, planters etc. No sign of them.

I read on times colonist there were multiple fobs and a custom made piano on the key chain Pretty hard to miss and too big for a bird to pick up. Someone took it.

[DragonChi]

I question the story this guy is telling how he lost it too. IMO he's SOL.

[whitev70r]

I bought Toyota tech stream on eBay/amazon for less than $25 to program my keys

You can do that? What else do you need in terms of software or hardware?
Will this method work for other brands like Audi, VW, Volvo, etc?

[MrPhreak]

I question the story this guy is telling how he lost it too. IMO he's SOL.

Haha, +1

If my wife had made my buy a hybrid import minivan, I'd probably mysteriously lose the keys as well


Hmmmmm, I wonder how it would look if you added some hypothetical context to the story

"It was a wonderful family vacation and then in one second it turned into a nightmare," Maria told CTV News on Wednesday"
While John quietly cursed her for reaching out to the media in his head, he hadn't anticipated this after throwing the keys down a sewer grate

"We went back and they weren’t there," Higgins said Flatly
"We just went round and round in circles," his wife added.
John secretly smirks

"I've got three mechanics calling people in Japan," John said.
Earlier Maria had asked him what he was doing... talking to Japanese mechanics with no names of course!

"John's been up all night watching YouTube," Maria added.
John quietly adds "Yes... I was up all night watching car videos... and I was using the tissue paper to cry into"

The Higgins are offering a $500 reward for safe return of their key.
But John knows it could be 5,000$ and it will still never be found, mwaahahahaha


Disclaimer: This is a joke btw, I don't actually think John tossed his keys down a drain so they could ditch their minivan in Victoria.... despite seeming like the perfect plan!

[underscore]

They bought a vehicle from Velocity (mistake #1) that only came with one key (mistake #2) and never bothered to get another key made (mistake #3)?

I'm also not sure how their current solution is to sell the van for parts. If they can't find someone parting one out in North America then get someone to contact a wreckers in Japan and buy the keys, ECU and lock cylinders from a junkyard one. The ECU's are <$100 on eBay, I can't imagine the parts you need would cost more than a few hundred bucks.

[StanleyR]

They bought a vehicle from Velocity (mistake #1) that only came with one key (mistake #2) and never bothered to get another key made (mistake #3)?



I agree. These people don't seem very smart to begin with.FailFish

And that's just another reason why I avoid J spec cars. Wrong wheel drive is just the tip of the iceberg.
:heckno:

[Truenosan]

I agree. These people don't seem very smart to begin with.FailFish

And that's just another reason why I avoid J spec cars. Wrong wheel drive is just the tip of the iceberg.
:heckno:

I think you're wording it wrong. Wrong wheel drive = FWD? lol

I love JDM cars, but I just caution people that certain parts are harder to obtain.

I get grief from customers who bought RHD diesel Land Cruisers. They call asking for engine parts. Not sure how it is with other manufacturers, but with Toyota, we cannot get JDM specific parts. If the part came on a North American model, then it is ok. We never got the diesel engines, hence why no parts for it.

[TouringTeg]

^ Yep. I've gone to my local Toyota dealer armed with a part number for the North American model and it is no problem. JDM specific parts is a no go.

[dark0821]

They bought a vehicle from Velocity (mistake #1) that only came with one key (mistake #2) and never bothered to get another key made (mistake #3)?

I'm also not sure how their current solution is to sell the van for parts. If they can't find someone parting one out in North America then get someone to contact a wreckers in Japan and buy the keys, ECU and lock cylinders from a junkyard one. The ECU's are <$100 on eBay, I can't imagine the parts you need would cost more than a few hundred bucks.

THIS!

I had the exact same reaction when I read the story..There has to be some wrecker in Japan that will have the exact same van with a spare ECU and key fob... honestly you don't even need to replace the lock cylinders, a local lock smith can cut your original key just with access to your locks... but the ECU + matching key fob has to be less than a $1000 shipped and installed...

[underscore]

^ Yep. I've gone to my local Toyota dealer armed with a part number for the North American model and it is no problem. JDM specific parts is a no go.

Strange, because I've been able to get some JDM and Euro only parts from both Canadian and American Toyota dealers. Strangely enough some of the parts were stored in a Cali warehouse but US dealers couldn't sell them, and Canadian ones could.

[TouringTeg]

For whatever reason the Jim Pattinson owned Toyota dealer in Victoria won't attempt to get parts or provide service for JDM imported cars. The SA made it sound like it was their company policy.

[twitchyzero]

seems like a reasonable policy...especially for vehicles without a LHD equiv

unless i'm really hurting for business, doesn't seem to be worth the liability

[tofu1413]

For whatever reason the Jim Pattinson owned Toyota dealer in Victoria won't attempt to get parts or provide service for JDM imported cars. The SA made it sound like it was their company policy.

opens a can of worms - ordering wrong parts, customer refusing to grab it and they're stuck with the part.



i had the same thing going on at wolfe subaru.... asked for an impreza blank key for a j spec impreza.... and they looked at me as if i was crazy....

(just looking for a damn blank, non chipped key with oem subaru logo on it...)

[underscore]

Are you guys using part numbers or asking them to look up the part? I just call/email with the part number and they don't seem to pay attention to what the part actually is.

[TouringTeg]

I haven't tried that. At least then it is either a yes or a no.

Lyall Street Service is a popular shop in Victoria for servicing RHD cars. They are happy to work on them but it is up to the customer to supply the parts. Makes sense.

[JordanLee]

Thats the same key and transponder used on 3rd Gen 4Runners and 80 Series Land Cruisers. Anybody with Toyota Techstream software can reprogram new keys but the tricky part is that it requires a master in the ignition to be able to erase/create new keys.

[thumper]

Surrey family hires hacker, forks over thousands after losing car key | CTV Vancouver News (http://bc.ctvnews.ca/surrey-family-hires-hacker-forks-over-thousands-after-losing-car-key-1.3539473)

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1.3539488!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_620/image.jpg

Surrey family hires hacker, forks over thousands after losing car key

David Molko catches up with a Surrey family whose quest to find a new key for their minivan is finally over after two long months.


Last Updated Wednesday, August 9, 2017 7:21PM PDT

Two months after a Surrey family lost the key to their minivan, the vehicle's owners were finally able to get back behind the wheel.
Maria and John Higgins went on a family trip to Victoria in early June using the Toyota Estima minivan they recently purchased as their getaway vehicle.
They'd purchased the Estima – a hybrid imported from Japan – from a Burnaby dealership less than a month before the trip.

Staff at Velocity Cars gave the couple only one key, but the Higgins family said they didn't give that much thought until they lost it somewhere along Wharf Street in Victoria.

"It was a wonderful family vacation, and then in one second, it turned into a nightmare," Maria said.

Like many modern vehicles, the Toyota key has a special transponder chip inside, which meant that even if they'd broken into the van, they wouldn't be able to drive it.
Their vacation was over, but since they couldn't find the key, the Higgins family decided to leave the van parked in Victoria.

They called Velocity Cars and other dealerships when they got home, thinking they could get another key, but they were told there was a bigger problem.

"I got a call from a dealer in Bellingham who services imported Toyotas," John told CTV News on June 7.
"And he said, the only way Toyota will cut you a new key is if your van is physically in a Toyota dealer in Japan."

So the family posted pictures of their missing key ring, offered up a $500 reward, and began their search for other options. They enlisted the help of three mechanics to help make calls overseas.

John said they spent the next 45 days speaking with Toyota staff in Japan with the help of an interpreter, pleading for someone to send reset instructions and a new key. Finally, on July 20, they were told that Toyota Japan would not help, John said.

"The way we see it, the key to our van was sitting on a shelf in Japan and could have, if there had been some strings pulled, been shipped over to us," John said.
"It's kind of puzzling when we're living in a world where everything is available all the time."

And Toyota in Canada couldn’t help the either, because the vehicle was manufactured 15 years ago and meant only for the Japanese market.

In a statement to CTV News, a spokesperson said, "We always recommend that Canadian consumers buy new or certified used Toyota vehicles from authorized Toyota dealerships in Canada so that we can properly support them as our customer over the life of their vehicle."
There was only one remaining option besides scrapping their $10,000 investment and starting over: "We have to find some guru who knows how to reset all this stuff without frying the whole thing," Maria said.

So Velocity Cars helped connect the Higgins with a mechanic in Richmond, who worked with a "hacker." The specialist, who didn't want to be identified, said he could likely hack the vehicle's immobilizer box, an electronic security device that stops the engine from running unless a key with the correct chip inside is inserted.

The Higgins family hired a tow truck to bring the vehicle from Victoria to Richmond. The mechanic removed the dashboard, disconnected the immobilizer, and sent it to the reprogrammer.

The hacker had to solder wires to a chip, delete the data for the old keys, then reprogram the new ones, John said. Then the mechanic had to reassemble the dash.

“They showed us our torn apart van and it was like...it's never going to get put back together!” Maria said.

Finally on Wednesday, more than two months after losing their key, the Higgins family was reunited with their van and able to try the new keys.

“Oh man!” John exclaimed, laughing in disbelief as the hybrid whirred into life.

“You take this action every day for granted. 2,500 bucks and years off my life!”

The Higgins' total bill came to roughly $4,530 for the new keys, the tow, the mechanic and hacker. John said, Velocity paid for about half of the expenses.

Velocity’s general manager Serge Mozgovoy but told CTV that staff members were “surprised and shocked” by how complicated the process was.
And when asked if they were warning their customers, Mozgovoy said, "the best we can do is recommend not to lose the key."
He added, "I know for some reason it’s going to [happen again]…but now at least we have a solution."

Working keys in hand, John gave the mechanic a hug, and said he planned to put one of the three new keys in a bank vault. It wasn’t clear if he was joking.

"I've never lost a key yet," quipped his wife.

"Really, don’t say that!" John laughed, as the couple and their two children finally drove off.

With a report from CTV Vancouver's David Molko

[TouringTeg]

I wonder what the cost would have been to ship it to Japan and back again

[The Producer]

Toyota's policy is weird. They should be able to make up a key.

I just got a spare key made up for my JDM bmw. Took in the vin number to the dealer, got a key made and shipped from the fatherland 10 days later. Didn't even have to program it (yes, it does have a chip/ immobilizer)

[underscore]

That's what they ended up doing? None of the dipshits involved thought to just get a new ECU, keys and cylinders from a wreckers? I'm guessing the "hacker" (that's cracking, not hacking CTV. Great reporting skills) probably knew that but didn't bother to tell them since they paid him a pile of money.

[CorneringArtist]

Toyota's policy is weird. They should be able to make up a key.

I just got a spare key made up for my JDM bmw. Took in the vin number to the dealer, got a key made and shipped from the fatherland 10 days later. Didn't even have to program it (yes, it does have a chip/ immobilizer)

I can probably guess that programming is done in Germany as well. BMW does it right, offering global support for something as important as a key as long as you have the VIN.