[Infiniti]

Ottawa to pay $10.5M to Omar Khadr, government source says - Politics - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/khadr-settlement-1.4189146)

I'm surprised no one has posted about this yet. One of the bigger stories in the news today.

It seems that Canadians are positioned on both sides of the fence concerning this story.

Thoughts..?

[pastarocket]

The big question that comes to my mind is why is there no financial compensation given to the widow of the deceased Sergeant Christopher Speer?

This Khadr dude confessed to throwing a grenade which killed Sergeant Speer.
He gets compensation for wrongful imprisonment??

Speer served the US and paid the ultimate sacrifice for his country.

Where is the justice in this situation?? :fulloffuck:

[Tr1ll]

I'm sorry, but this is bullshit. Not only are we letting a 'former' Islamic extremist back out on the streets, we're now paying him too?

Speer served Canada and paid the ultimate sacrifice for his country.

SFC Speer is American

[twitchyzero]

instead of doing work I read his entire wiki page earlier :derp:

I think claiming he forgot everything is probably BS

I'm going to say he was a terrorist through and through...but being a minor then I can understand why was considered unethical PoW treatment

damn he's made of steel: gets bombed by a pair of Warthogs, shot twice, survived 10 years of GTMO (basically picked his brain because he met bin Laden at age 10)...still less street cred than 50 cent though LUL

graphic: http://projects.thestar.com/omar-khadr-in-his-own-words/img/Khadr-Battlefield.jpg

not a lawyer but 8M USD is probably a good deal consider he was suing for $20M

and Morris (who was blinded as a result of his attack) and Speer's widow will likely be suing him again.

[Infiniti]

The big question that comes to my mind is why is there no financial compensation given to the widow of the deceased Sergeant Christopher Speer?

This Khadr dude confessed to throwing a grenade which killed Sergeant Speer.
He gets compensation for wrongful imprisonment??

Speer served Canada and paid the ultimate sacrifice for his country.

Where is the justice in this situation?? :fulloffuck:

Speer was part of the U.S army.

And, Khadr's "confessions" are considered by some as contentious give that they were given under duress as a result of torture. People tend to say whatever their captors want to hear in order to stop the pain they are enduring during "enhanced interrogation".

[GS8]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/canada-to-apologize-pay-former-gitmo-prisoner-omar-khadr/2017/07/04/da5640dc-6072-11e7-80a2-8c226031ac3f_story.html

Looks like the Widow wants the money for Speer and Morris.

Wonder how many would accuse her of being a racist islamophobe for doing this? LUL

[6o4__boi]

I read somewhere that this was the best case scenario in terms of settlement.

If this wasn't reached, it would've gone to international courts or something which was apparently gonna cost taxpayers more.

[Rallydrv]

I do see an apology is somewhat called for.. But with all said and done, if indeed he threw the grenade, 80% of the $ should go to the dead us soldier.


Then again.. Fuck Harper

[MrPhreak]

I have mixed feelings on how this all played out. Canada failed to take appropriate action when he was captured, but they also failed miserably to ensure that appropriate justice for his crimes was delivered.

First, I just don't buy that he was brain washed. I think he was a fully aware and willing terrorist when he was 15, and should be held fully accountable for his actions. Now, to be clear, I am not talking so much about the person he killed and other he injured, more so that fact that he took up arms against our allies in a warzone. In my view he is absolutely guilty of treason. In Canada, that is the punishment for high treason is life imprisonment, without parole eligibility for 25 years. That is what I think proper justice should have looked like in this case.

Canada failed to act when he was taken to Guantanamo Bay. They should have pushed to have him brought to Canada and put up on charges of high treason when it first came to light. There is no doubt he suffered torture and unethical treatment at the hand of the Americans.

Then again, given what a bunch of liberal pussies Canadian judges are, I am not all that confident that they would find a 15 year old guilty of high treason. He likely wouldn't have had any real consequences for his actions, and probably sucked right back into being a terrorist again.

So at the end of the day, he has at least spent a significant amount of time in a rough jail, which in my view he basically deserved. He has come out of it with a renewed sense of life and commitment to doing good (I think he is studying to be a nurse). While he is going to get stupid amount of money from the Canadian government for their failure to act, it will be less than if they continue to drag it out. Plus I expect a lot of that to end up with the people he victimized.

I still think he should be fucking jailed for the full amount of time for treason though, but I suppose I can take some comfort in the fact that he was at least jailed at all for a decade, which is far more than most victims in Canada get to see happen to their perpetrators.

I read somewhere that this was the best case scenario in terms of settlement.

If this wasn't reached, it would've gone to international courts or something which was apparently gonna cost taxpayers more.

Yep, agree with this. I don't know how much of this money he is even going to get to keep in the long run... a majority chunk is going to his lawyer; and then the lawyers for the widow of the man he killed, and the man he injured, are going to be swarming him knowing he actually has cash. By the time the dust settles, he won't have much left.

I kind of hope he ends up penny-less and in debt

[Manic!]

The big question that comes to my mind is why is there no financial compensation given to the widow of the deceased Sergeant Christopher Speer?

This Khadr dude confessed to throwing a grenade which killed Sergeant Speer.
He gets compensation for wrongful imprisonment??

Speer served the US and paid the ultimate sacrifice for his country.

Where is the justice in this situation?? :fulloffuck:

Where was the financial compensation for the 4 Canadian troops that where killed and the 8 that where injured buy a US fighter pilots? The pilots did not even go to trial.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarnak_Farm_incident
U.S. Pilots Avoid Prosecution for Bombing Canadian Troops - The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/19/national/us-pilots-avoid-prosecution-for-bombing-canadian-troops.html)

I also don't think Canadians should be allowed to be tortured by foreign countries.

[twitchyzero]

that was friendly fire

when you're the son of a high-ranking Al-Qaeda fighter, it's harder to argue you accidentally pulled the pin on a grenade against enemy combatants (in this case the US troops)

[StylinRed]

He was 15 tortured and ignored by his country and a foreign one. We have child soldier laws for a reason. the US and Harper ignored them, he should get much more

Also read the conflicting reports by the soldiers from having khadr with weapon in hand and taking three slugs in the chest to having him crouched and hiding and taking slugs in his back

that was friendly fire

when you're the son of a high-ranking Al-Qaeda fighter, it's harder to argue you accidentally pulled the pin on a grenade against enemy combatants (in this case the US troops)

His father was only accused of being an associate, but his father has a history of charity work for NGOs in the region and the claim by his lawyers is that any association with suspected terrorists was a result of building relations to negotiate for the NGOs (which organizations need to be able to operate in those regions)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Khadr

[Infiniti]

Yep, agree with this. I don't know how much of this money he is even going to get to keep in the long run... a majority chunk is going to his lawyer; and then the lawyers for the widow of the man he killed, and the man he injured, are going to be swarming him knowing he actually has cash. By the time the dust settles, he won't have much left.

Very unlikely any of that money goes to the American soldiers' families.

[murd0c]

No matter how much money he's given he will be fucked up for the rest of his life because what he went through. I think he deserves it because of the hell is was put through when our government could of prevented that.

[vitaminG]

I'd say he served a reasonable amount of time for his crime considering his youth and the influences of his family. I don't agree that he should have been tortured though so maybe some compensation would be due. I very much disagree with him getting an apology though.

IThen again.. Fuck Harper

What's the point of this comment other than to show your ignorance? Harper wasn't prime minister when Khadr was sent to gtmo, he was already there for a few years before harper came around. If anything he was repatriated back to Canada under harper.

[originalhypa]

^
For the record, Paul Martin and the Liberals were in power during the time that Khadr was imprisoned, while Chretien was in power during the firefight where the US medic was killed.


No matter how much money he's given he will be fucked up for the rest of his life because what he went through. I think he deserves it because of the hell is was put through when our government could of prevented that.

I'm glad he's fucked up for the rest of his life. He killed an American medic, a man with a family who was tasked with saving the lives of soldiers fighting for their country.

Why should our gov't have prevented him from being imprisoned in another country?

Should we do the same for the mother of Wanting Qu?
Or maybe the next time someone is thrown in a Thai prison for smuggling drugs we should offer them the same?

This is just another Trudeau fail. I swear, the more time he is in power the more I think he is a plant put in power by some shady elite. The man offers nothing of substance, and aside from the Liberal agenda to disarm the population, he's also made it impossible for Canadian citizens to lose their status for terrorism. While the Khadr scenario may have forced the Cdn gov't hand, there was no need for him to allow terrorists to keep their citizenship.


Trudeau rewards a terrorist with citizenship

Zakaria Amara is a convicted terrorist, serving a life sentence for his role in a plot to murder scores of Canadians. And now, thanks to a Trudeau government bill passed through the Senate this week, Amara will soon be given the privilege of Canadian citizenship.

After all, a Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian, right?

In the case of Amara, this “Canadian” was born in Jordan and raised in Saudi Arabia.

He came to Canada as a teenager, became a Canadian citizen as a young man, and, by the time he turned 20, he was behind bars and charged with terrorism.

Amara was the ringleader of a sophisticated terrorist cell known as the Toronto 18. He recruited, trained and groomed fellow Islamist extremists and worked towards a deadly terrorist plot.

Amara wanted to detonate bombs in downtown Toronto, and coordinate shooting sprees at the CBC and the Toronto Stock Exchange. He planned to siege Parliament Hill in Ottawa, and carry out executions and beheadings of politicians, including the Prime Minster.

He wanted to mass murder Canadians. And even more so, he wanted to shatter our sense of safety and security. It would have forever changed Canada.

Thankfully, this madman’s plot was foiled by an undercover police sting operation. Amara pled guilty to terrorism charges, and was slapped with a life sentence.

Under the Harper government, Amara had his Canadian citizenship revoked and was set to be deported the moment he was released from prison.

But things have changed under Justin Trudeau.

Trudeau said during the 2015 election campaign that he believes “terrorists should get to keep their Canadian citizenship.” And now he’s keeping good on that pledge.

Trudeau rewards a terrorist with citizenship | MALCOLM | Columnists | Opinion | (http://www.torontosun.com/2017/03/03/trudeau-rewards-a-terrorist-with-citizenship)

[Manic!]

So who gave convicted criminal Conrad Black who spent time in US jail Canadian citizenship?

[jasonturbo]

So who gave convicted criminal Conrad Black who spent time in US jail Canadian citizenship?

Bro tip - Conrad Black was born in Canada.

[vitaminG]

^ so was Omar Khadr.

The law only would have applied to people who had dual citizenship or were eligible for it.

Also the law only applied to people charged with terrorism or treason.

So basically what the fuck does Conrad black have to do with anything?

[Tr1ll]

Guantanamo Bay touts success story of child soldier turned multi-millionaire (https://www.thebeaverton.com/2017/07/guantanamo-bay-touts-success-story-child-soldier-turned-multi-millionaire/)

[Bouncing Bettys]

^ so was Omar Khadr.

The law only would have applied to people who had dual citizenship or were eligible for it.

Also the law only applied to people charged with terrorism or treason.

So basically what the fuck does Conrad black have to do with anything?

Manic can't let criticism of Islam or the actions of some of its followers slide without immediately responding with a post reminding everyone that white people are bad too.

[jasonturbo]

^ so was Omar Khadr.



My response was in respect to Zakaria Amara.

[RRxtar]

There is no doubt that Omar wen't thru some shit that he probably shouldn't have, and was most likely extremely mistreated by the US. Thats true.

Its also true that he was in a place he shouldn't be, and (conflicting reports from the soldiers or not), he was involved in fighting Americans, and was directly (as the story goes) or indirectly responsible for an American dying, and another being injured. For that, he was a prisoner of war.

Those are the main facts of Omar Khadr.

Was Canada responsible?

Canada provided him an opportunity to live a healthy and safe life as a Canadian in Canada, his family chose otherwise (except when they needed to come back for medical reasons or money, funny hey). Canada didn't put him in that house the US was raiding, Canada didn't arrest him and send him to gitmo, and Canada wasn't the lead in the interrogation. Canada was tho, the country that repatriated him and 'saved him' from likely spending the rest of his life in an american prison.

Was he mistreated, and very unfortunate to go thru what he did? Yes, absolutely.

Was it Canada's fault enough to take the blame and give him a $10m apology? I dont think so.

[Manic!]

^ so was Omar Khadr.

The law only would have applied to people who had dual citizenship or were eligible for it.

Also the law only applied to people charged with terrorism or treason.

So basically what the fuck does Conrad black have to do with anything?

Conrad black was not a Canadian citizen and was a convicted criminal. I don't think we should give convicted criminals Canadian citizenship. I am guessing you disagree and criminals should be allowed to get into Canada and get Canadian citizenship?

[vitaminG]

Conrad black is not a Canadian citizen and nobody has offered him citizenship.

So maybe we can put this to bed and continue the discussion unless you have any other pointless non sequitors you would like to pursue.

[inv4zn]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Supreme Court award the settlement??

I think its bullshit too, and I get that it's cool to bash on the government, but let us not be misinformed here.

Yes, the government -- which I guess is synonymous with Trudeau now -- is giving it to Khadr, but it was ordered by the Supreme Court.

This article is slightly less biased:
Here?s why Omar Khadr is getting $10M from the Canadian government | Globalnews.ca (http://globalnews.ca/news/3573619/omar-khadr-canada-compensation/)

While it's controversial (and horseshit, IMO) that a shitbag of a human being is being awarded taxpayers $$$, let's not let misinformation shape our opinions. Look what's happening down south.

[jasonturbo]

Conrad black was not a Canadian citizen and was a convicted criminal. I don't think we should give convicted criminals Canadian citizenship. I am guessing you disagree and criminals should be allowed to get into Canada and get Canadian citizenship?

Ummm yeah Conrad Black was a Canadian citizen until 2001 when he renounced his citizenship in order to join the British House of Lordes.

Since 2001 he has not formally applied for his Canadian citizenship to be reinstated.

YOU ARE FAKE NEWS

[quasi]

he Canadian Taxpayers Federation (CTF) is pushing for the federal government to revoke its $10.5-million settlement to Omar Khadr.

The federation says a petition it launched following Tuesday’s news that Canada will apologize to Khadr has gained more than 52,000 signatures.

“With over 52,000 names in under 48 hours, it is clear this issue has struck a nerve,” CTF federal director Aaron Wudrick said in a press release Thursday. “The notion of giving $10 million in taxpayer money to Khadr is so outrageous that many Canadians are simply beside themselves.”

READ MORE: Here’s why Omar Khadr is getting $10M from the Canadian government

The petition, posted online at Taxpayer.com, is addressed to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. It says the payout to Khadr is “offensive” to Canadians.

“Mr.Khadr admitted to killing an American soldier while fighting with al-Qaeda in Afghanistan in 2002,” it reads. “Canadians should not be forced to pay millions of dollars to a killer.”

Petition against Omar Khadr?s $10M payout gains more than 50,000 signatures - National | Globalnews.ca (http://globalnews.ca/news/3579434/omar-khadr-payout-canadian-taxpayers-federation/)

[Dharminder]

how many bombs and guns can you buy with 10 million?
whats to say this money is not sent back to the middle east?

[Sid Vicious]

i've been researching this a bit, and it turns out his confession was extracted under torture, so who knows if he actually did blow that guy up

[originalhypa]

i've been researching this a bit, and it turns out his confession was extracted under torture, so who knows if he actually did blow that guy up

How else can you deal with these savage individuals?

Should we have offered him some hummus and tea while saying "please tell us the truth, Omar".

You have people cutting other's heads off on camera, and suddenly we're the bad guys?

Finally, why should someone who proclaims a belief in Sharia law be supported by laws of a nation that they're fighting against?

FailFish

[Manic!]

i've been researching this a bit, and it turns out his confession was extracted under torture, so who knows if he actually did blow that guy up

Good read here:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Khadr#Firefight_and_capture


While in US custody he was shown a picture book and pointed a finger at Canadian Maher Arar who was being detained at a US airport. Maher Arar was then sent to a black ops site in Syria and tortured. He was later released and the Canadian government apologized and gave him 10.5 million.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maher_Arar#Arar.27s_rendition

[Manic!]

How else can you deal with these savage individuals?

Should we have offered him some hummus and tea while saying "please tell us the truth, Omar".

You have people cutting other's heads off on camera, and suddenly we're the bad guys?

Finally, why should someone who proclaims a belief in Sharia law be supported by laws of a nation that they're fighting against?

FailFish


We have laws in Canada for a reason.

[Sid Vicious]

How else can you deal with these savage individuals?

Should we have offered him some hummus and tea while saying "please tell us the truth, Omar".

You have people cutting other's heads off on camera, and suddenly we're the bad guys?

Finally, why should someone who proclaims a belief in Sharia law be supported by laws of a nation that they're fighting against?

FailFish

uhhh...what? are you actually retarded?

did i make any statements regarding the moral justification or legality of torture?

i simply stated that confessions extracted while someone is tortured are inaccurate and often erroneous. my claim is backed by the science, for example:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22830471-200-torture-doesnt-work-says-science-why-are-we-still-doing-it/

jesus, you are some kind of stupid

[originalhypa]

uhhh...what? are you actually retarded?

nope.
If I was I would have been able to bring myself down to your level.

did i make any statements regarding the moral justification or legality of torture?

What was the point of your reply then?
Post count bump?

Wanted to be part of the conversation like some clown in the background that hops in with something inane like "I like puppies too".

Face it, your reply had about as much substance as badhobs nutsack after a long jerkoff session.

i simply stated that confessions extracted while someone is tortured are inaccurate and often erroneous. my claim is backed by the science, for example:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22830471-200-torture-doesnt-work-says-science-why-are-we-still-doing-it/

Get it right tough guy, your claim is backed by a single "theory".
The article you posted said itself, and I quote.....

Controlled studies on the effectiveness of torture would be morally abhorrent.

Science is based on controlled study. But if you're unable to have controlled study, you're left with a theory. That's not science, it's opinion. Just like those who say torture works.

jesus, you are some kind of stupid

You're the one who posted a link that contradicts your own reply, yet I'm the stupid one?

Since you can't formulate a proper reply without throwing insults, I'll make this easy for you to understand.

my dick ======D :showbutt: your mom's ass


Have a nice day.

[Sid Vicious]

nope.
If I was I would have been able to bring myself down to your level.



What was the point of your reply then?
Post count bump?
Wanted to be part of the conversation?

Like some clown in the background that hops into a convo with something inane like "I like puppies too".



Get it right tough guy, your claim is backed by a single "theory".
The article you posted said itself, and I quote.....



Science is based on controlled study. But if you're unable to have controlled study, you're left with a theory. That's not science, it's opinion. Just like those who say torture works.



You're the one who posted a link that contradicts your own reply, yet I'm the stupid one?

Since you can't formulate a proper reply without throwing insults, I'll make this easy for you to understand.

my dick ======D :showbutt: your mom's ass


Have a nice day.

jesus christ, its almost comical how dumb you are. i don't know whether its the severe inbreeding or syphillis or whatever, but let me preface this in simple terms that even you may understand

1) omar's confession extracted under torture
2) torture proven to extract false confessions
3) so who knows if omars confession was true.

your reading comprehension is simply reprehensible, lemme outline a simple quote from the article

As O’Mara emphasises, torture does not produce reliable information largely because of the severity with which it impairs the ability to think. Extreme pain, cold, sleep deprivation and fear of torture itself all damage memory, mood and cognition. Torture does not persuade people to make a reasoned decision to cooperate, but produces panic, dissociation, unconsciousness and long-term neurological damage. It also produces an intense desire to keep talking to prevent further torture.

O’Mara quotes an intelligence officer’s story about a 60-year-old torture survivor in Cambodia: “He told his interrogators everything they wanted to know, including the truth. In torture, he confessed to being everything from a hermaphrodite, and a CIA spy to a Catholic bishop and the King of Cambodia’s son. He was actually just a school teacher whose crime was that he once spoke French.”

in what way is any of this contradictory to the statement i posted originally lmao

even people who have tortured others have admitted it does not work:
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017/jan/27/even-torturers-admit-that-torture-doesnt-work


A Khmer Rouge, Kang Kek Lew, was accused, and later convicted by a UN war crimes tribunal of being the head of an interrogation centre known as S-21, where over 12,000 people were tortured and killed. During his trial, he was asked whether he believed that the information he obtained through torture was accurate. He unequivocally responded that he did not. His orders were to reveal enemy networks. His victims would name anyone they could think of, just to put an end to the suffering. One young westerner named Colonel Sanders as his alleged superior in the CIA. Some prisoners confessed to being simultaneously agents of the CIA and the KGB.

[Infiniti]

How else can you deal with these savage individuals?

Should we have offered him some hummus and tea while saying "please tell us the truth, Omar".

All arguments aside, torture is largely seen as an ineffective means of extracting accurate and truthful information. Moreover, trained interrogation professionals have other tactics at their disposal instead of inhumane techniques that only serve to embolden a prisoner or make em say bogus intel.

Edit: In light of you and Sid's ongoing quarrel, I want to post some links to academic journals on this topic. But, it won't let me link em unless you have access to the database. Need to figure out another way to post em.

[originalhypa]

O'Mara himself states that
once torture is imposed, the consequences, he says, are that it will be “ineffective, pointless, morally appalling, and unpredictable in its outcomes”.

the only two comments there that have any merit are "ineffective" and "unpredictable". Whether or not it's pointless is moot, while one's moral views should not be taken as rule of law because we all have different moral compasses.

I would like to guide you to an article that states how and why torture works.


Torture’s Dirty Secret: It Works
When it comes to social control, nothing works quite like torture.

 This is torture’s true purpose: to terrorize–not only the people in Guantánamo’s cages and Syria’s isolation cells but also, and more important, the broader community that hears about these abuses. Torture is a machine designed to break the will to resist–the individual prisoner’s will and the collective will.

This is not a controversial claim. In 2001 the US NGO Physicians for Human Rights published a manual on treating torture survivors that noted: “perpetrators often attempt to justify their acts of torture and ill treatment by the need to gather information. Such conceptualizations obscure the purpose of torture….The aim of torture is to dehumanize the victim, break his/her will, and at the same time, set horrific examples for those who come in contact with the victim. In this way, torture can break or damage the will and coherence of entire communities.”

https://www.thenation.com/article/tortures-dirty-secret-it-works/



Btw, tell your mom to top up the pre-paid cel she bought me so I can facetime the bitch after dark.

[originalhypa]

All arguments aside, torture is largely seen as an ineffective means of extracting accurate and truthful information. Moreover, trained interrogation professionals have other tactics at their disposal instead of inhumane techniques that only serve to embolden a prisoner or make em say bogus intel.

Edit: In light of you and Sid's ongoing quarrel, I want to post some links to academic journals on this topic. But, it won't let me link em unless you have access to the database. Need to figure out another way to post em.

Don't bother.
You're not going to change my mind, just like I'm not going to change that other guy's mind.

It comes down to what you're willing to tolerate as a person. You may feel that we can rehabilitate Paul Bernardo, whereas I would like to see him cut into little pieces and fed to dogs. Therein lies the issue. I am totally okay with cutting the fingernails off of a terrorist, and I'm sure if you could go back in time and torture someone to stop the London terror attacks, that you would feel the same way.

[Sid Vicious]

O'Mara himself states that


the only two comments there that have any merit are "ineffective" and "unpredictable". Whether or not it's pointless is moot, while one's moral views should not be taken as rule of law because we all have different moral compasses.

I would like to guide you to an article that states how and why torture works.




Btw, tell your mom to top up the pre-paid cel she bought me so I can facetime the bitch after dark.

From your article
But there’s a problem: No one claims that torture is an effective interrogation tool–least of all the people who practice it. Torture “doesn’t work. There are better ways to deal with captives,” CIA director Porter Goss told the Senate Intelligence Committee on February 16.

LMAO you're so stupid that it hurts. you're confusing arguments and posting things that aren't even related to the original statement which is that torture doesn't produce reliable information or confessions. there was no discussion at all on morality or legality

the morality and legality part of which you went off on some unrelated tangent. perhaps those countless hours spent poring over dr seuss one day will pay off.

Here is a list of multiple scientific articles that state how ineffective torture is at obtaining information

https://journalistsresource.org/studies/government/security-military/does-torture-work-research-says-no

i dont know why you keep posting in this thread just to keep continuously getting rekt lmao, you haven't produced on salient point yet.

[originalhypa]

That's not science..... It's the opinion of a former CIA director.
And if torture didn't work, then why was it (and currently is) being practiced by the following countries?

Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Angola, Argentina, Bahrain, Brazil, Chile, China, Cuba, France, Guatemala, India, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Kenya, Lebanon, Nigeria, North Vietnam, Palestinian Territories, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Soviet Union, Spain, Syria, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, Kenya, Northern Ireland, United States, Uzbekistan

Why did Brazil bother developing new technologies for torture?
While methods of torture are often quite crude, a number of new technologies of control have been used by torturers in recent years. The Brazilian government devised a number of new electrical and mechanical means of torture during the military dictatorship from 1964 to 1985, and proceeded to train military officials from other right-wing Latin American countries in their techniques.[5] One is the use of tasers and electro-shock devices now widely sold to prison authorities around the world. Minor refinements of ancient techniques, including tearing out fingernails and toenails with iron appliances and burning the soles of the feet with clothes irons, are also widely applied.


Don't get me wrong, torture is disgusting.
But so is terrorism, and if torture helps to protect our people, then I'm all for it.

[Manic!]

Don't get me wrong, torture is disgusting.
But so is terrorism, and if torture helps to protect our people, then I'm all for it.

Funny thing is it does not work. We had a Canadian sent to Syria because of a false confession to be tortured. What did they learn after torturing him? Nothing because he was not a terrorist. Then we had to pay him 10.5 million.

[inv4zn]

That's not science..... It's the opinion of a former CIA director.
And if torture didn't work, then why was it (and currently is) being practiced by the following countries?

Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Angola, Argentina, Bahrain, Brazil, Chile, China, Cuba, France, Guatemala, India, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Kenya, Lebanon, Nigeria, North Vietnam, Palestinian Territories, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Soviet Union, Spain, Syria, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, Kenya, Northern Ireland, United States, Uzbekistan

Why did Brazil bother developing new technologies for torture?



Don't get me wrong, torture is disgusting.
But so is terrorism, and if torture helps to protect our people, then I'm all for it.

That list of countries does more against your point than for.

Also, if you do not see the massive hypocrisy in your last statement, then...:heckno:

[underscore]

I am totally okay with cutting the fingernails off of a terrorist

The thing is, you should probably have proven that someone is a terrorist before cutting their fingernails off, not 8 years later.

Don't get me wrong, torture is disgusting.
But so is terrorism, and if torture helps to protect our people, then I'm all for it.

First let me ask, what do you mean by "our people"?

[Shorn]

That's not science..... It's the opinion of a former CIA director.
And if torture didn't work, then why was it (and currently is) being practiced by the following countries?

Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Angola, Argentina, Bahrain, Brazil, Chile, China, Cuba, France, Guatemala, India, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Kenya, Lebanon, Nigeria, North Vietnam, Palestinian Territories, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Soviet Union, Spain, Syria, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, Kenya, Northern Ireland, United States, Uzbekistan

Why did Brazil bother developing new technologies for torture?



Don't get me wrong, torture is disgusting.
But so is terrorism, and if torture helps to protect our people, then I'm all for it.

I'm not following you, is the list of countries you mentioned supposed to be role models that we should look up to?

The point here is not whether torture is ethical or morally correct, it's that it produces unreliable confessions.

Say you got kidnapped and taken somewhere, and waterboarded/burned/sleep & food deprived/whatever else they do. The guy who's doing it says, just say you were the one who killed this guy and it stops. Otherwise it keeps going. What are you going to do?

Everyone breaks in the end, whether or not they are guilty. You will say anything they want to hear just to make it stop.

That's the point

[Infiniti]

Omar Khadr receives $10.5M from Ottawa, sources say - Politics - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/omar-khadr-settlement-1.4194142)

[twitchyzero]

hypa just wants to make sure fight club never dies

[Berzerker]

How about we look at how much the Government spent defending themselves against the Lawsuit put forth by this guy?

Berz out.

[originalhypa]

^
We're always bitching about the justice system in Canada. How they let murderers walk after 3 years of time served, with civil forfietures are happening over everything from growing dope to speeding.

How did his case even make it to the supreme court?

The Conservatives would have still been fighting this case because they believed in a Canada that protects it's citizens. I know how I'm voting in 3 years, and it won't be Liberal.

Khadr's father was an absolute piece of shit too. The elder Khadr, later identified as a key lieutenant of Osama bin Laden, who would die in a firefight with Pakistani security officers in 2003, was under arrest in Pakistan in connection with the bombing of the Egyptian embassy in Islamabad.

I'm a firm believer that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree..... but hey, this is Revscene so let's give him the benefit of the doubt, eh?

[Acura604]

here ya go... a good quality post off my FB feed: (not my content)




Okay, I'm fucking sick of the idiocy and done with writing a diatribe every single time a friend posts about how they're upset that Trudeau is giving a terrorist $10m. You people are.... wilfully ignorant and hypocritical. Here's why. (And I thoroughly suggest reading the entire post. If you know me, you know I'm neither stupid, nor an apologist. I am pure fucking science, and this post is such. Read it before making an ass of yourself by posting about how we just gave a terrorist money).
The story (the facts we know).
* Canadian born Khadr was taken to Afghanistan at 15 years old, by his father. We don't know if he wanted to go, and we don't know why they went. There has been zero evidence put forth to suggest the trip had anything to do with terrorism. Regardless, as he was only 15, he had no choice in the matter.
(EDIT: He was actually taken to Afghanistan at 9 years of age. He was taken to Gitmo at 15)
* Khadr was found in critical condition following a firefight. The mission debrief report filed by the US troops stated that a middle aged man threw a grenade, which killed one US soldier. The grenadier was shot in the head and confirmed killed.
* Khadr was taken to Guantanamo Bay prison. No charges were filed against him at that time.
* Several years later, formal charges were filed. These charges were technically not even charges of war crimes, as if they were true, Khadr would be considered an enemy combatant during a time of war, and thus everything he was accused of doing, was legal under rules of engagement. He was denied access to a lawyer at this point and no trial date was set. He was held in detention and tortured for nearly 10 years.
* Nearly a decade later, an addendum to the original mission debrief was submitted, which identified the grenadier as Khadr by name. The description was updated to match that of a 15 year old Khadr. The original report was not rescinded. No one knows who made the addendum. No US personnel present during the firefight confirms the addendum.
* A week later, Khadr is offered a plea deal. The terms of the deal were to admit guilt to all charges and serve a few more years in a Canadian prison, or refuse to admit guilt and be denied trial indefinitely.
* Khadr takes the plea deal, is transferred to Canada.
* Khadr sues the Canadian government for their involvement in his illegal detention, torture, and lack of a trial.
All of the above is true as far as anyone knows. That is the official story, from both the Canadian and US governments. They have said straight out that Khadr would not be offered a trial unless he took the plea deal. Just let that sink in for a moment.
Now let me ask you a question.
As a Canadian, what do you stand for? Do you believe that you, as a Canadian, have the right to be presumed innocent, until proven guilty, as well as the right to a fair and quick trial? I know this is hard for many of you to consider without jumping to "oh, but he's a terrorist, so fuck him, he's a traitor and doesn't deserve anything", but we'll get to that in a minute. Seriously consider this. Do you believe you have, as a Canadian, the inalienable right to everything laid out in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms?
If you do, but still think Khadr does not, because he is a terrorist, let me ask you; "How do you know he is guilty?" There was no trial for 10 years, and he was only offered a trial on the condition that he plead guilty. How do we, as Canadians, determine guilt? Have you read and understood the Chart of Rights and Freedoms? It's entire purpose is precisely to ensure that what happened to Khadr, is not allowed to happen. Period.
Now I know many of you still can't get past the "but he's a traitor so he doesn't deserve a trial" even though neither you, nor me, nor the US or Canadian government were able to provide ANY evidence whatsoever, of his guilt (no evidence was submitted during his trial, presumably because none exists), but that doesn't matter. Let me explain the problem to you.
You are worried that terrorists are trying to take away your freedoms as a Canadian right? They're trying to force Sharia law upon us and we as Canadians, won't stand for that right?
Do you see where I'm going here? Presuming Khadr's guilt, with no evidence and without trial, is precisely what the terrorists want to do to Canada. Isn't that your concern? Does it not strike you then, that by saying that Khadr doesn't deserve a fair trial because he is a terrorist, with absolutely no evidence, nor a trial to prove the charges, that you are doing precisely what you are worried the terrorists are trying to do do us? A presumption of guilt, no trial, a decade of detention and torture. Is that not Sharia law?
At this point, I don't think any of us should even be concerned about Khadrs innocence or guilt. He is inconsequential at this point. The REAL concern for all Canadians, is that our government denied a Canadian citizen his inalienable rights, guaranteed to him under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. They did EXACTLY what you are worried the terrorists are trying to do. If Khadr was guilty, a trial probably would have proven such, so why was he denied a trial?
For your information, the Canadian government did not simply offer up an apology and $10m for no reason. They were sued. The Canadian Supreme Court found in favour of Khadr, in that the Canadian government was in breach of Canadian and International law. That money will mostly be covering his legal fees. But here's where you should be more concerned about the money. The Canadian government spent $120m of your money, defending itself for committing what is legally, war crimes. Seriously. Your government, was just successfully sued, for war crimes. Crimes they committed not only against Khadr, but against the entire Canadian public. They assured us that we would all be given a fair trial, but now we know that is not true. They assured us that we will always be presumed innocent until proven guilty. We know that is not true. They took your money, money which could have been spent on building half a hospital or something, and spent it instead, on committing war crimes, and crimes directly against the Charter on which our country was founded.
In summation:
If you believe Khadr did not deserve a fair and quick trial, you are not Canadian. You do not stand for what Canada stands for. You are saying very clearly, that you don't care about evidence, treating people (who we presume are innocent until proven guilty) with basic decency, or your own or anyone else's right to a fair trial. You are, quite literally, openly supporting about half of Sharia law. You fuckwits.

[murd0c]

This article explains everyone and after reading it no one should dispute it.

https://bccla.org/news/2017/07/civil-liberties-group-reacts-reports-khadr-settlement-organisme-des-libertes-civiles-reagit-aux-rapports-du-reglement-de-khadr/

The BC Civil Liberties Association reacted to the reports of the settlement of Omar Khadr’s lawsuit against the federal government this morning, and to the commentary surrounding the supposed settlement. Josh Paterson, Executive Director of the BC Civil Liberties Association, stated:

“This is very simple. It’s been proven in court that the federal government broke the law in its treatment of Omar Khadr. The rule of law demands that there be a remedy – no government can act as if it is above the law. The reported settlement and apology recognizes this principle that is critical to the protection of everybody’s rights. Omar Khadr’s rights were violated by the government of Canada. The highest court in the land ruled that Canada actively violated its international human rights obligations towards Omar Khadr. Canada participated in the unlawful and lengthy detention of a child under terrible conditions in Guantánamo Bay, violating his rights under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Given the length of his detention and his proven and serious mistreatment by the Canadian government, he was likely to succeed in his lawsuit against Canada and would likely have won a significant award of damages.”

Over the years, the BCCLA has been among the many organizations calling for justice for Omar Khadr. Canada’s treatment of Omar Khadr was nothing short of shameful. Omar was 15 when he was captured and accused of killing a US serviceman. Under any version of events of what happened during that firefight, it cannot be disputed that Omar was a minor, which means that even if he was directly involved in the fighting, he is still a child soldier. And it is uncontroversial that, as a matter of international law and practice, child soldiers are to be considered as themselves victims of war, and must be treated accordingly.

As a child and a Canadian citizen, Canada should’ve been protecting Omar. The Canadian government should have immediately sought his repatriation, so he could have been removed from the lawlessness of the Guantánamo regime and rehabilitated here in Canada. It should have advocated for his rights as a minor and as a Canadian citizen. But the Canadian government did none of that.

Instead, it sent its agents to assist the Americans with their interrogations, notwithstanding the fact that Omar had told them that he had been tortured. Eventually, the Canadian courts found that this conduct constituted complicity in the violation of Omar’s fundamental human rights, and established that Canada had violated Omar’s rights under our own Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Importantly, the Supreme Court of Canada also found that so long as Omar remained in detention in Guantánamo, the Canadian government would be in continuous violation of his Charter rights.

After a series of interrogations by Canadian agents (which only ended after a Canadian court ordered that they be stopped), the Canadian government simply abandoned him. One after another, countries like the United Kingdom and Australia demanded the return of their citizens from Guantánamo. Soon, Omar was the only citizen from the West that remained. Canada left him to face trial via military commission – a process that has been criticized by the BCCLA and around the world for its serious procedural deficiencies. It watched him enter a guilty plea, after a confession extracted under torture, in exchange for a reduced sentence and a promise that he would be repatriated to Canada after a year. He was eligible for return at the end of last October 2011. Canada then continued to refuse to approve his transfer, coming up with one excuse after another until almost a year had passed, and he was finally repatriated to a Canadian prison in September 2013. One and a half years later, he was released from prison on bail.

He filed a lawsuit in 2014 based on Canada’s complicity in his treatment, including torture, by the Americans. The federal government tried to stop him from making the legal claim, but the Federal Court ruled that he had the right to file the claim in 2014. That $20-million dollar lawsuit is what the federal government has reportedly settled, for $10-million and an apology.

Omar Khadr’s treatment by Canada was reprehensible. Our government cannot be permitted to commit such serious violations of an individual’s human rights – a child’s human rights – with impunity. If the reports of the settlement are true, such a settlement is clearly justified. Canada cannot undo the treatment to which Omar Khadr was subjected with its collaboration – but it can offer some measure of compensation in recognition of the violation of his rights, and his suffering.

[Hondaracer]

Canada didn't fail him when you're 15 tossing fucking grenades around. Fuck him

[Manic!]

Canada didn't fail him when you're 15 tossing fucking grenades around. Fuck him

You know for a fact that he was tossing grenades?

[Hondaracer]

You know for a fact that he was tossing grenades?

Honestly does it even matter? You're in Afghanistan on your own will fighting against allied forces and associating with groups directly related to terror sects?

In any account, the group he was with were associated with the groups being sought out by the allied forces, and a firefight ensued in which both American and Afghan allies died.

You were born in fucking Toronto and now you're in a mud hut in Afghanistan along side guys with AK's and grenades.. sounds like a choice was made along the way..

But he was only 15..and in Canada we live in a society where you can bat people to death in the head as a minor and serve a term that doesn't reflect a cold blooded murder because "you're too young to know better"...

[Manic!]

Honestly does it even matter? You're in Afghanistan on your own will fighting against allied forces and associating with groups directly related to terror sects?



He was 9 when his parents took him to Afghanistan. I am pretty sure he did not have a choice in the matter.

[Bouncing Bettys]

I am all for compensating the falsely convicted, who are later exonerated of the crime, when sufficient evidence is provided. This is not the same issue, as he was not held and convicted through a fair trial. Injustices occurred, his rights were violated, but it does not mean he never did the things he was accused of. I am not comfortable handing him millions of dollars, knowing he could very well be guilty.

[originalhypa]

First let me ask, what do you mean by "our people"?

What do you want to hear?
White people. Brown people. Asians, Afghanis, and Croatians.
Basically, people who don't want to kill others because of race or religion. You know, your family, friends, and neighbours.

You know for a fact that he was tossing grenades?

Do you know for a fact that he wasn't tossing grenades?

Injustices occurred, his rights were violated, but it does not mean he never did the things he was accused of. I am not comfortable handing him millions of dollars, knowing he could very well be guilty.

:fuckyea:

Paying Khadr does the opposite of the torture he endured. While torture shows an enemy that we're willing to go medieval on someone, this payout shows that Canada is weak, and will negotiate with alleged terrorists. Why doesn't ISIS attack China? Because they know that if they did, China would level the middle east without thinking twice.


One last note to inv4zn, Nlkko, Shorn, Sid Vicious, StylinRed, twitchyzero, and underscore..... I know you're sitting there red faced, saliva coming out of the side of your mouth feverishly hitting the fail button in an attempt to upset me. Just an fyi, it's not working. You don't need to waste the click on me. Use it to better yourself. Maybe follow Tony Robbins on facebook?

But hey, if it makes you feel better, have at er'.
:)

[Manic!]

What do you want to hear?
White people. Brown people. Asians, Afghanis, and Croatians.
Basically, people who don't want to kill others because of race or religion. You know, your family, friends, and neighbours.



Do you know for a fact that he wasn't tossing grenades?





And that's why your Innocent until proven guilty.

[underscore]

Canada didn't fail him when you're 15 tossing fucking grenades around. Fuck him

Honestly does it even matter? You're in Afghanistan on your own will fighting against allied forces and associating with groups directly related to terror sects?

In any account, the group he was with were associated with the groups being sought out by the allied forces, and a firefight ensued in which both American and Afghan allies died.

You were born in fucking Toronto and now you're in a mud hut in Afghanistan along side guys with AK's and grenades.. sounds like a choice was made along the way..

But he was only 15..and in Canada we live in a society where you can bat people to death in the head as a minor and serve a term that doesn't reflect a cold blooded murder because "you're too young to know better"...

His dad dragged him over there when he was 9 fucking years old, do you think he had a say in that? Do you think a 9 year old stuck in a warzone has a way out of there? Even if he did, where the hell is he gonna go? "Nah dad, I'm gonna bounce, it's show and tell in class next week and Steve is gonna bring in his older brothers snake" probably wasn't gonna work.

Even if you ignore his age, and his circumstances, hell even if you assume he's probably guilty, that doesn't change the fact that EVERYONE should have a proper trial. There's no justifiable reason to send someone to gitmo based on unproven allegations alone, and then torture them for completely worthless information for a decade.

Or is it justified because you think he's one of those big mean terrorists everyone's been scared shitless of for the last 17 years for basically no reason? Which of course means they got exactly what they wanted, they won purely because everyone pisses themselves if a vaguely middle eastern guy is anywhere near them because of one success in the west. They are committing many more atrocities in the middle east but I get the feeling the people scared of "muh turrurists" don't give a shit what happens to those people.

[originalhypa]

And that's why your Innocent until proven guilty.

Now that's a good point.

But wouldn't Canadian law be followed only if the offense happened in Canada?
The offence occurred in Afghanistan, while he was imprisoned on sovereign US soil. So who's laws apply?

From the Canadian gov't website regarding travelling outside of Canada.

There are over 1,700 Canadians in jail abroad—over one-third of them for drug-related offences. Carrying any kind of drugs, even prescription drugs, across international borders can cause problems.

Death penalty for offences related to narcotics: Algeria, Indonesia, Iran, Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand


And that's just for drug possession.

There are 1700 Canadian citizens in jail around the world. Some of them in conditions that are far worse than Gitmo ever was. Some of them in jail because they couldn't get proper defense due to language or social barriers. Maybe we should help those folks out? Do Canadian citizens get treated better in foriegn prisons?

Anyway, this has taken up more time than it should have. Also the check has already been cashed, and Global news was able to speak with him.




TORONTO — The federal government has apologized to former Guantanamo Bay inmate Omar Khadr and paid him $10.5 million to settle his long-standing lawsuit over the violations of his charter rights.

READ MORE: Government issues official apology, confirms settlement payout to Omar Khadr

Canadian Press reporter Colin Perkel talked to Khadr about the settlement and the widespread anger it has engendered:

Q: What do you say to those Canadians who view you as an unrepentant terrorist who deserves no mercy, let alone an apology and compensation?

A: I’m not a hardened terrorist bent on doing anything. But they don’t have to believe what I say. Look at my actions. My past: I’m not excusing it, I’m not denying it. We all do things that we wish we could change. All I can do right now is focus on the present and do my best to become a productive member of society, a good person, a good human being. Look at my actions and judge me on that.

Q: How do you react to those who say you’re now profiting from a criminal past?

A: I can’t discuss any details of the settlement but I don’t look at this as profiting. This is not a time for profit or for gaining or for thinking, ‘I hit the jackpot.’ This is a time for remembering. It’s a time of reconciliation. This is a time for healing and it’s not about forgetting. I’m sorry if this is causing people pain. I’m trying to turn a page. Not to forget that page, but just trying to turn a page and move along.

Q: Do you think you deserve an apology from the Canadian government on behalf of Canadians?

A:I don’t look at it in a way that I deserve it. It’s not a matter of deserving. It’s a matter of trying to find the best way where we can reconciliate what happened and move forward in a way that is going to be healthy for everybody.

READ MORE: Here’s why Omar Khadr is getting $10M from the Canadian government

Q: What does the government’s apology mean to you?

A: The good thing about this apology for me is that it’s going to restore a little bit of my reputation here in Canada. It’s been a struggle to find jobs. People see you with that past reputation. An apology helps people say, ‘We acknowledge the past.’ Maybe that will give people an opportunity to give me a chance and think there might be more than what is said in the media.

: You’re close to your family, some of whom have angered Canadians by expressing in years past pro-al-Qaida sentiments. How do you reconcile that?

A: It would have been easy for me to be very upset and frustrated with my family with what they said. But my frustration and anger is not going to change what they said. I’m not excusing what they said. I’m not justifying what they said. All I’m trying to do right now is explain that they were going through a hard time. This is not an excuse but it’s an explanation. They said things out of anger or frustration.

Q: Some might say you’re trying to sweep the past under the carpet?

A: How are we going to see what’s ahead of us and move forward, if all we can see is the past? Not forget. This is how I survived: I tried to focus on the things I can change. All I can do right now is try to become the best person I can.

Q: What’s next for you?

A: I want to finish my nursing program. I want to work as a nurse somewhere it’s needed. I want to be able to use my languages and my ability as a nurse to relieve people from pain. I have a lot of experience with pain and I have an appreciation of pain. With my past, I don’t know who’s going to be comfortable with hiring me.

READ MORE: Petition against Omar Khadr’s $10M payout gains more than 50,000 signatures

Q: Would you like now just to fade into the background?

A: Definitely. I just want to be the next person on the road that you don’t look twice at. Listen, I want to be in a place where I don’t have any more legal cases, I don’t have any prison time. I just want to be a normal person who doesn’t have to worry about going to court. Hopefully, eventually, it will come.

NOTE: The interview is edited and condensed.

Omar Khadr on moving on after settlement, apology: ?I just want to be a normal person? | Globalnews.ca (http://globalnews.ca/news/3582767/omar-khadr-settlement-apology-q-and-a/)



I didn't sign any of the petitions, nor did I protest the payment. It really doesn't have any bearing on my life. Good luck to Omar and his money. May he use it for good.

I'm really hoping that he is telling the truth in the interview, and we won't hear the name Khadr again.

[Manic!]

Now that's a good point.

But wouldn't Canadian law be followed only if the offense happened in Canada?
The offence occurred in Afghanistan, while he was imprisoned on sovereign US soil. So who's laws apply?

From the Canadian gov't website regarding travelling outside of Canada.



And that's just for drug possession.

There are 1700 Canadian citizens in jail around the world. Some of them in conditions that are far worse than Gitmo ever was. Some of them in jail because they couldn't get proper defense due to language or social barriers. Maybe we should help those folks out?



Yes we should and that's one of the reasons we have embassies around the world. Remember when ex president Bill Clinton went to North Korea to help free those 2 American journalists?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_imprisonment_of_American_journalists_by_North _Korea#Bill_Clinton.27s_visit_to_Pyongyang

Clinton expressed words of sincere apology to Kim Jong Il for the hostile acts committed by the two American journalists against the DPRK after illegally intruding into it. Clinton courteously conveyed to Kim Jong Il an earnest request of the U.S. government to leniently pardon them and send them back home from a humanitarian point of view. The meetings had candid and in-depth discussions on the pending issues between the DPRK and the U.S. in a sincere atmosphere and reached a consensus of views on seeking a negotiated settlement of them.

[Badhobz]

We might have "failed" him by not securing his extradition to canada after his attack, but it doesnt change the fuck this guy at 15 year old killed a servicemen. When our servicemen dies their widows and families dont get millions of dollar and they paid the ultimate price to serve their country. This guy because of circumstance sure as shit doesnt deserve that kind of money. maybe a 1 million tops, but certainly not that much coin for something he knew full well carrying out.

I just think its insulting to our enlisted troops that we are paying a brat who killed somebody 10 million clams.

[Hondaracer]

It's insulting to every single person who ever suffered an injustice and didn't even receive a verbal apology.

[murd0c]

It's insulting to every single person who ever suffered an injustice and didn't even receive a verbal apology.

No its what makes Canada great because we don't go down to the level as the terrorists, this is one of the greatest first world countries in the world and a government admitting they were wrong is a huge step or our civil liberties in the future.

[Manic!]

We might have "failed" him by not securing his extradition to canada after his attack, but it doesnt change the fuck this guy at 15 year old killed a servicemen. When our servicemen dies their widows and families dont get millions of dollar and they paid the ultimate price to serve their country. This guy because of circumstance sure as shit doesnt deserve that kind of money. maybe a 1 million tops, but certainly not that much coin for something he knew full well carrying out.

I just think its insulting to our enlisted troops that we are paying a brat who killed somebody 10 million clams.

His attack??? They attacked him. Also there is no proof he killed a serviceman.

[Mr.HappySilp]

No its what makes Canada great because we don't go down to the level as the terrorists, this is one of the greatest first world countries in the world and a government admitting they were wrong is a huge step or our civil liberties in the future.

So I guess we should hand out everyone who is a Canadian and were treated injustice 10+millions of dollars because we didn't try hard to enough to give them a fair trail. As someone quotes there are more than 1700 Canadian abroad for drug trafficking and they are now in jail without a proper trail SO I guess that also should be compensate 10+ millions of dollars.

Yet when one of our serviceman/woman die all they get is a flag over their coffin if even while their family aren't even compensated.

Great job Canada! I sure will know which side I will be on when I needed 10+ millions of dollars.

[Manic!]

So I guess we should hand out everyone who is a Canadian and were treated injustice 10+millions of dollars because we didn't try hard to enough to give them a fair trail. As someone quotes there are more than 1700 Canadian abroad for drug trafficking and they are now in jail without a proper trail SO I guess that also should be compensate 10+ millions of dollars.

Yet when one of our serviceman/woman die all they get is a flag over their coffin if even while their family aren't even compensated.

Great job Canada! I sure will know which side I will be on when I needed 10+ millions of dollars.

Show me another case where Canada has let a 15 year old rot in jail for 10 years in a foreign without doing nothing.


Also:
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/murtaza-haider/canada-abandoned-omar-khadr-twice-an-apology-is-due_a_23020992/

It all started in Peshawar, Pakistan. Omar's father, Ahmed Said Khadr, was incarcerated in Pakistan on terrorism-related charges. In 1996, while visiting Pakistan on a trade mission, Jean Chretien intervened on behalf of Mr. Ahmed Khadr, who also held Canadian citizenship. Pakistanis took his suggestion as an order from the Canadian prime minister and released Ahmed Khadr soon afterward.

Mr. Chretien insists that he didn't ask for a release but for fair treatment of a Canadian housed in a Pakistani prison (Mr. Ahmed Khadr was being held in a hospital). However, when a poor country like Pakistan depends on aid and funding from a prosperous nation like Canada, any suggestion is considered an order.

[CharlesInCharge]

Canada and Al Qaeda are ZioAmerican proxy armies... seems like most Canadians are stupid cogs that think we went into Afghanistan to kill Bin Laden, the master mind behind 911.

http://i.imgur.com/o0vaS9R.png

[Shorn]

We might have "failed" him by not securing his extradition to canada after his attack, but it doesnt change the fuck this guy at 15 year old killed a servicemen. When our servicemen dies their widows and families dont get millions of dollar and they paid the ultimate price to serve their country. This guy because of circumstance sure as shit doesnt deserve that kind of money. maybe a 1 million tops, but certainly not that much coin for something he knew full well carrying out.

I just think its insulting to our enlisted troops that we are paying a brat who killed somebody 10 million clams.

There is NO proof that Omar Khadr threw the grenade.

Please read up about what actually happened in Afghanistan in 2002.

US soldiers was checking out a residential complex where a "monitored" cell signal came from. Some baddies started shooting and the soldiers backed away. They dropped a 500 lb bomb and bombed the fuck out of the area. Then SOMEONE threw a grenade at them which ultimately killed Sgt Speer. After that, they went in, shot and killed a guy who was still alive, and shot Khadr in the back 3 times.

"February also saw the accidental release of a five-page "OC-1" witness report to reporters, which revealed that Khadr had not been the only survivor in the compound, as previously claimed, and that nobody had seen him throw the grenade."

"In March, Kuebler insisted that "Lt. Col. W." had initially written in his report the day after the firefight that "the person who threw a grenade that killed Sgt. 1st Class Christopher J. Speer also died in the firefight", implying that the grenade had indeed been thrown by the surviving Mujahideen, and not by Khadr. The report was rewritten months later to say that the grenade thrower had been "engaged", rather than "killed", changing the wording that exonerated Khadr."

Source: https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2008/02/04/khadr_secret_document_released_by_accident.html

So let's clear it up once and for all, with facts:

1. Omar Khadr was spent his childhood between Canada and Pakistan, and was moved to Afghanistan at the age of 10. His father, no doubt a shithead, has ties with al-Qaeda, including Osama bin Laden. Did you really have much control of your life when you were 10?

2. Khadr was shot after a grenade was thrown by an unknown person (a Mujahideen was also alive and present when the grenade was thrown), is permanently blinded, and taken to Bagram Airbase for medical attention.

3. Khadr's chief interrogrator at Bagram was a man named Joshua Claus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Claus), who was later found guilty of mistreating & abusing a detainee who died.

4. Khadr is transferred to Guantanamo Bay.

5. In 2010, Khadr takes a plea deal that lets him get repatriated back to Canada.

6. Khadr is transferred back to Canada in 2012, and released in 2015.

Now tell me exactly why you don't think he deserves compensation. The SUPREME COURT that decided, unanimously, that we as a country have failed one of our citizens, when he was 15 years old, to let him be tortured and mistreated by the US, imprisoned and forced into a plea deal that had NO evidence, be imprisoned for 13 years.

And don't make the comparison with soldiers and their compensation when they die. They sign up for it, they know exactly what they are getting into. I'm not saying they don't deserve more but this is a kid who wouldn't be allowed to buy a beer and they shot him 3 times in the back. The 2 things simply shouldn't be compared.

Anyway, I spent way too much time on this. I just hate it when people start riding on the bandwagon listening to shit they hear on Facebook and doesn't look at the facts.
We're in 2017, we have all the information in the world available at your fingertips, and people are just too fucking lazy to go out and look for it and instead believe whatever the fuck they hear and go with popular opinion.

[mikemhg]

^Good post. I admit myself at first I was surprised and angry that Khadr was awarded such a sum, but after further investigation (which I really wish we all did more nowadays, with all this clickbait) I can't see any definitive proof that he did anything wrong. Besides even if he did throw the grenade, it's war, they're not allowed to fight back? Heh.

My main thought is why isn't the US paying this sum? They're the one's who imprisoned the guy, and didn't follow proper diligence to send this Canadian citizen back to Canada for proper trial.

[inv4zn]

^Because (allegedly) he was tortured by Canadian agents.

[Infiniti]

^Because (allegedly) he was tortured by Canadian agents.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/R4k2ZjketOk/hqdefault.jpg

[twitchyzero]

do I think he killed the US serviceman
probably

but consider that

- he was a minor
- has since turned his life around
- did not receive fair trial

i laugh at the feds all the time but if one thing that they did right since coming to power was eliminating different classes of Canadian citizens.

i know the last time most of us read through the Charter was probably back in grade school.


my dick ======D :showbutt: your mom's ass


Btw, tell your mom to top up the pre-paid cel she bought me so I can facetime the bitch after dark.


You're not going to change my mind, just like I'm not going to change that other guy's mind.



And if torture didn't work, then why was it (and currently is) being practiced by the following countries?

Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Angola, Argentina, Bahrain, Brazil, Chile, China, Cuba, France, Guatemala, India, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Kenya, Lebanon, Nigeria, North Vietnam, Palestinian Territories, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Soviet Union, Spain, Syria, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, Kenya, Northern Ireland, United States, Uzbekistan


Do you know for a fact that he wasn't tossing grenades?

I know you're sitting there red faced, saliva coming out of the side of your mouth feverishly hitting the fail button in an attempt to upset me. Just an fyi, it's not working.
But hey, if it makes you feel better, have at er'.
:)

Your last point is as effective as asking us to prove that gravity doesn't exist

Why yes, spending all those fails made my day infinitely better and each press released a hit of dopamine. It had nothing to do with your short-sighted arguments, unwillingness to see things from more than one angle or the fight club antics for a moderator.

So I guess we should hand out everyone who is a Canadian and were treated injustice 10+millions of dollars because we didn't try hard to enough to give them a fair trail.

if they were about to win a major case that would cost way more than 10M, while being minor at the time of alleged offense, and spent almost a decade in torture as notorious as GTMO by Canadian officials

then yes maybe we should

[Hondaracer]

Let's get real here, there was no "justice served" in this payout. It was to get out front of the inevitable shit storm which would have happened if they had ever let it get to court.

You think there was an anti Muslim sentiment brewing before? Wait until the trial is public and testimony of events starts coming out. Even in his most recent interviews Omar claims to remember nothing of the events leading up to his capture and eventual detainment at GITMO.

It was a PR move, plain and simple. And if shit was as cut and dry as the bleeding hearts in here say, do you think literally EVERY media outlet would be asking whether you agree or not with the payment? Come onnnnnnnnnnnnn

And Shorn digging up some ducking article from the star trying to lay out the "facts" yea..ok..

[originalhypa]

You think there was an anti Muslim sentiment brewing before? Wait until the trial is public and testimony of events starts coming out.

This is really dividing the country. No one can win this argument because frankly I don't believe that there is a right decision.

That said, it seems like division is what Trudeau et al care about these days.

[Bouncing Bettys]

even if he did throw the grenade, it's war, they're not allowed to fight back?
It's a little more complicated than simply participating in a war. A Canadian citizen took up arms against our closest ally in war Canada was also involved in. Under other circumstances, it could have been Canadian troops he was accused of killing.

[Shorn]

And Shorn digging up some ducking article from the star trying to lay out the "facts" yea..ok..

Not sure why you put facts in quotations. But if you want a source other than The Star (too liberal for you or something?), here's another: https://web.archive.org/web/20141224163426/http://www.canada.com/story.html?id=95f582ec-c987-4bd4-8f17-157a87a73618

I don't even understand why you guys are so confrontational.

All I'm doing is actual research before having an opinion, which is what everyone should do. From the beginning when I heard this story I didn't have a predisposition towards which side was right. I went out and looked for facts on what happened and made my own opinion.

Since when is backing up your opinion with facts a bad thing? Maybe you guys should try it once in a while, might open up your views.

[Hondaracer]

I appreciate the effort, however in this case the "facts" are pretty diluted. I spent a good chunk of time reading up on what happened to Omar prior to the capture and there are so many different accounts and opinions it's hard to take the info with anything but a grain of salt.

Virtually all the accounts are from the US side and some are from people who were directly involved, some are not. So I find it hard to call opinion peices and perspectives on the events actual facts. Even the actual scenario and setting are called into question in many cases.

One thing you can virtually know with certainty however is Omar was there, he was with a group who returned fire on allied forces, and was captured during the fight in question.

However you want to frame it, the world would have seen a net gain had he died in the fight.

[Shorn]

I appreciate the effort, however in this case the "facts" are pretty diluted. I spent a good chunk of time reading up on what happened to Omar prior to the capture and there are so many different accounts and opinions it's hard to take the info with anything but a grain of salt.

Virtually all the accounts are from the US side and some are from people who were directly involved, some are not. So I find it hard to call opinion peices and perspectives on the events actual facts. Even the actual scenario and setting are called into question in many cases.

One thing you can virtually know with certainty however is Omar was there, he was with a group who returned fire on allied forces, and was captured during the fight in question.

However you want to frame it, the world would have seen a net gain had he died in the fight.

Right, so I agree with you for the most part. Where our opinion differs is the fact that I actually believe in innocence until proven guilty. No matter what, because that's the basis of our justice system and one of the most fundamental right we have.

Without it, millions of people would be wrongly imprisoned and I am also of the opinion that it's better to let 10 guilty people walk free because of insufficient evidence than 1 innocent person going to prison because of a miscarriage of justice.

I don't doubt that Omar was up to no good in Afghanistan. I don't doubt that they were teaching him to make bombs and brainwash him with jihadist ideals. I also don't doubt that he had much choice in the matter, being 15 years old, so I can't really blame him for it either.

However the thing I do know is that we cannot prove that he threw the grenade (and the US sure tried), and I completely agree with the Supreme Court's decision that we failed this young man.

To each their own

[Mr.Money]

kinda fucked up if you met charles manson as a 15 year old and said he brain washed you into sticking a knife or pulling a trigger on somebody than get paid 10 million dollars for it cause you were interrogated and waterboarded....lack of sleep beat to crap.

[Hondaracer]

https://i.imgur.com/HHP5SSP_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=high

[Infiniti]

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/canada-failed-omar-khadr-compensation-and-an-apology-was-the-right-move/article35623662/?ref=https://www.theglobeandmail.com&service=mobile

[underscore]

I'm still confused as to why people keep mentioning Trudeau in all this, when it was the Supreme Courts decision. You are familiar with the Supreme Court right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_of_Canada

My main thought is why isn't the US paying this sum? They're the one's who imprisoned the guy, and didn't follow proper diligence to send this Canadian citizen back to Canada for proper trial.

The US cost us double this actually, as based on the brilliant "intel" the Americans got from torturing Khadr they captures and tortured an innocent man who was also given $10.5M I believe.

[inv4zn]

^That's because there are some pretty damn simple-minded people here.

They see clickbait headlines and automatically have concluded that "TRUDEAU IS GIVING TERRORISTS TAX MONEY WTF LIBERALS FUCK".

They'll ignore any fact-based articles that state Trudeau had little to do with this, it was a SCC decision that started during Harper era.

This isn't about a difference of opinion, it's about being closed-minded.
Not so different than the simpleton Trump supporters imo.

[vitaminG]

The supreme Court found his rights were breached but did not order any payout or apology. Trudeau chose to settle out of court and issue an apology rather than fight a civil suit which would have been forthcoming. Also interesting to note that the soldiers widow was in the process of trying to block any payout when this conveniently occurred.

The people who really should be apologizing are his family who sent him to fucking Afghanistan to fight for al Qaeda, the family which he is apparently still close with. If it was up to me his mother should have been locked up for allowing him to be put on such danger.

[Sid Vicious]

https://i.imgur.com/HHP5SSP_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=high

what evidence do they have that he actually killed speer aside from his confession extracted via torture?

[6o4__boi]

Trudeau is nowhere near perfect but the decision to settle and offer an apology in light of the supreme court ruling is the smartest decision.

Smart doesn't have to look good. Is it morally right? Absolutely not. But it was the best decision available, visuals be damned.

I don't understand how people can't grasp this simple concept. I'm willing to shit on Trudeau's mistakes and misgivings as much as the next guy but this isn't one of them. If you ask me, it'd be nice if we could take the idiot child and lash him Saudi style but this isn't how civilization works.

I can pretty much guarantee the same people who complain that Trudeau settled and paid a terrorist will be the same ones who'll complain if Trudeau chose to fight a civil suit and piss away money in litigation.

[Hondaracer]

^That's because there are some pretty damn simple-minded people here.

They see clickbait headlines and automatically have concluded that "TRUDEAU IS GIVING TERRORISTS TAX MONEY WTF LIBERALS FUCK".

They'll ignore any fact-based articles that state Trudeau had little to do with this, it was a SCC decision that started during Harper era.

This isn't about a difference of opinion, it's about being closed-minded.
Not so different than the simpleton Trump supporters imo.

https://ispeakeasyblog.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/yawn.jpg

[Bouncing Bettys]

^That's because there are some pretty damn simple-minded people here.

They see clickbait headlines and automatically have concluded that "TRUDEAU IS GIVING TERRORISTS TAX MONEY WTF LIBERALS FUCK".

They'll ignore any fact-based articles that state Trudeau had little to do with this, it was a SCC decision that started during Harper era.

This isn't about a difference of opinion, it's about being closed-minded.
Not so different than the simpleton Trump supporters imo.

If that is how you feel, why bother taking part in the discussion?

This is a very unique case, as I, and others have pointed out. This isn't cut and dry wrongdoing towards an innocent man like Maher Arar, who was paid out millions by our government to which I support.

Khadir, a Canadian citizen, essentially took up arms against his own country (as part of a US led coalition). But should he be considered a child soldier and absolved of any wrongdoing? There are cases of teens as young as him being tried and convicted as an adult in murder cases. The US definitions of Gitmo detainees and what rights they had or didn't have, what torture was acceptable and what wasn't, who was involved, etc changed with different presidents in office while he was in there. The way his confession was acquired suggests coercion and torture. The whole thing was a cock up from the start and I have opposed his detention at Gitmo and our government's obstruction to see him removed. He could be innocent, or he could be like OJ Simpson - someone we all know is guilty in the eyes of the public, but got off on a technicality. There are just so many layers to this story, so many nuances, that I can't help but question it from beginning to end. Handing him millions of dollars of tax payer money, before anyone had any idea, before the wife of the dead US soldier could have her case heard, just sounds like more of the same underhanded ideological bullshit we saw from the Cons. The SCC found he was wronged by our government, and I can live with that decision. It did not make any recommendations as to compensation. I can understand why so many people are upset. Does this make me like a simpleton Trump supporter? Or a racist or anything else you wish to imply of those who don't agree 100%?

[inv4zn]

^What are you on about.

My point was directed at the simpletons picking keywords out of what is, as you've said, an incredibly complex issue with lots of contentious points in human rights, law, government and politics, and twisting it to think whatever they want to believe. The meme posted up there just solidifies my point.

I agree with your large paragraph and will only address the last question, which I assume is hypothetical.

The SCC ruled in his favour, opening the government up for a lawsuit. And if that drags on, because it's an international issue and a very complex one, the financial repercussions would have likely exceeded his current payout. There is also the issue of how this sets precedence. I personally would much rather have a government (regardless of political party) that sets a precedence it is accountable for its wrong-doings, than one that is going to openly break human rights laws.

Again to re-iterate my first point, I'm calling the idiots on FB that post shit like "TRUDEAU IS PAYING TERRORISTS WTFFF"; which in my mind, is not any different than simpletons who post shit like "OBAMA RUINED THE USA WTFFF"

[Infiniti]

Judge rejects request to freeze Omar Khadr's assets - World - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/omar-khadr-accounts-1.4203035)

[underscore]

before the wife of the dead US soldier could have her case heard

I'm sorry but what case does the wife of a soldier allegedly killed by Khadr have in the Supreme Court of Canada?

[Bouncing Bettys]

I'm sorry but what case does the wife of a soldier allegedly killed by Khadr have in the Supreme Court of Canada?
Ontario Superior Court*

Now since it was such minor and rather common mistake to mix up Provincial and Federal Supreme Courts, which I'm sure most could have figured out, pointed out, or asked for clarification, I have to wonder if there was more to your question?

[Hondaracer]

Harper reaches out to alleged victims of Omar Khadr: report - NEWS 1130 (http://www.news1130.com/2017/07/14/harper-reaches-alleged-victims-omar-khadr-report/)

The former prime minister of our country feels the decision was the wrong one, but hey you guys read a few left wing articles on bleeding heart opinions and are obviously more well informed than he is.

[Manic!]

Federal government reaches settlement with 3 Canadian men tortured in Syria and Egypt - Canada - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/goodale-freeland-settlement-apology-1.4016572)