[twitchyzero]

so news from last week

but the NTSB report released yesterday suggested this could've been far worse than Tenerife in '77.

weather cond'ns were fine too FailFish

to add insult to the injury, the passengers were only told "busy traffic" after they disembarked WutFace

http://www.cbc.ca/polopoly_fs/1.4205077!/fileImage/httpImage/image.gif

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/air-canada-sfo-near-collision-1.4204738

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

After I land the plane, I would go up to the air traffic control tower, and knock the lights out of the fucker that told me it was ok to land lol.


The controller assured the pilot there is no one on the runway. Seconds later, another voice — apparently one of the pilots on the taxiway — interjects, "Where's this guy going? He's on the taxiway."

Only at that point did the controller order the Air Canada jet to pull up.

[Mr.Money]

ffffffuuuuuu.....knowing how much fuel those planes hold,i don't think anyone would've survived...tower control should be fired for life.

[Infiniti]

After I land the plane, I would go up to the air traffic control tower, and knock the lights out of the fucker that told me it was ok to land lol.

I think you misunderstood what happened. The AC flight was cleared to land on the vacant runway by ATC, however, for whatever reason (which is yet to be determined) on final approach the AC flight was lined up with a traffic laden parallel taxiway instead of the active runway.

If anything, you as the pilot should go up to the air traffic control tower and apologize to the controller for majorly screwing up a routine approach.

[68style]

ATC should also be able to see he's on the wrong path, they both fucked up... the pilot more so, but the position of ATC should *never* just "assume" that the plane is going to the right place simply because it's a routine landing.

[twitchyzero]

this should clear up any confusion

https://i.cbc.ca/1.4199192.1499781342!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_620/air-canada-flight-san-francisco.jpg


are there not warning systems in place that tells both pilots they are lined up for the wrong path? say when visibility is poor


if they tried correcting this even 2 seconds later approaching at a ground speed of 160kph, would it have tail-striked?

[bcrdukes]

And here I thought 9/11 was bad...

[MG1]

Half those pilots are high, anyway.................


I know a few of them and it's pretty common.



Don't drink and drive.... errrr....... I mean fly. They have cracked down on pilots who have become intoxicated before their flights, so if they were sober, I wAnder why the pilot and co-pilot were so confused. There has to be more to this. Distracted driving/flying?

[westopher]

After I land the plane, I would go up to the air traffic control tower, and knock the lights out of the fucker that told me it was ok to land lol.
Maybe after you landed the plane you should hand over your flight license since you don't know the fucking difference between a runway and a taxiway.

[snowball]

How does one get the taxiway and runway mixed up?

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/hleegluvvpiemmbbs8jt.png

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/hoeobmnlpm2pwonmboso.png

[subordinate]

When you do the same shit every single time, you forget to actually think.

[StylinRed]

^^^^ its like driving, sometimes ur just totally zoned out, yet till operating the car, next thing u know ur at ur destination and you're like "wtf?" lol mistakes happen then, easily

[nah]

to put in perspective, this is 30m...

http://image.made-in-china.com/43f34j00vFkQesMDlTcn/30m-Height-Auto-Lifting-Steel-Pole-Hight-Mast-Lighting.jpg

[westopher]

Tons of fatigue is a huge issue in that industry as well. Fucked up schedules, and sometimes too much partying can get people to go full retard at the worst time.

[hchang]

Maybe after you landed the plane you should hand over your flight license since you don't know the fucking difference between a runway and a taxiway.

Drive in a driveway and park in a parkway.

[Eff-1]

The controller bears no responsibility at that point. From the controller's screen and viewpoint from the tower, it wouldn't really be possible to see the pilot was lined up with the taxiway running parallel to the runway and only a few feet apart. SF has some of the narrowest distances between runways and taxiways in the USA. The controller did his job by clearing the aircraft to land as soon as the runway is clear. The pilot screwed up by lining up incorrectly and not failing to recognize the runway from the taxiway until much too late.

Of course, if a plane is on final approach from the north and it's an east-west runway, then you could blame the controller for not paying attention.

The good news is the system worked. The pilot (eventually) noticed his path wasn't clear, questioned the tower, which caught the attention of the controller and the other pilots on the taxiway who spoke up. The tower immediately called for a go-around (a standard procedure) and everyone stayed safe.

Yes there are instruments that let the pilot know if he's lined up with the runway correctly but at that time he was flying using visual flight rules, which means he's flying simply by looking out the window, not by using his instruments. It's a common thing.

[yray]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNMtMYUGjnQ

Thats what it looks like at night. It was VFR and simultaneous approach was probably allowed, ILS was should be shut off so no real guidance.

Those green lights should've notified the pilot that it was a taxiway but was blocked by the waiting aircraft bodies. However, not sure what was the light setting of the runway.

[twitchyzero]

When you do the same shit every single time, you forget to actually think.

^^^^ its like driving, sometimes ur just totally zoned out, yet till operating the car, next thing u know ur at ur destination and you're like "wtf?" lol mistakes happen then, easily

are pilots not trained to retain their situational awareness during take-off and landing? not one but both pilots


Those green lights should've notified the pilot that it was a taxiway but was blocked by the waiting aircraft bodies. However, not sure what was the light setting of the runway.

runway was lit white, taxiway blue

answering my own question earlier, roughly a 10 second window to correct, otherwise almost 1000 casualties

“On a normal 3-degree glide slope, an aircraft descends 320 feet for every nautical mile flown,” Trescott explained in his blog Trends Aloft. “So at 175 feet, an aircraft would be 0.55 nautical miles from the touchdown zone. The typical landing speed for an A320 is around 130 knots to 140 knots. At 140 knots, an aircraft covers 2.33 miles per minute, so it could travel 0.55 nautical miles in a little over 14 seconds. Of course, if you figure a typical airliner is perhaps 40 feet high … then it would have been about 11 seconds to impact.”

“I would say this is quite alarming and uncommon to be this close,” he said. “That’s relatively rare.”


http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/07/12/11-seconds-to-impact-expert-calculates-just-how-close-air-canada-plane-at-sfo-was-to-disaster/

[FerrariEnzo]

Someone gona get fired!

[Razor Ramon HG]

The guilt of knowing that you almost killed thousands of people is a huge enough burden.

[sonick]

AC flight near-missed the 'greatest aviation disaster in history'


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDKdvTecYAM

[twitchyzero]

wish Carlin was still around...he'd have so much material from this messed up world for his stand-up performance.

[GabAlmighty]

So many armchair pilots in this world/thread...

Some people fucked up, but in the end the safety nets and training saved everyone from a giant catastrophe. i.e. questioning the controller, controller issuing a go around, etc.

At night it's extremely easy to get lost in the lights of a busy area such as that.

[The_Situation]

Publicity stunt for the movie 2:22

[twitchyzero]

hmm so it was actually worse...59ft (so less than six storeys)

I know it didn't fly directly over at lowest AGL but assuming the average height of airbus is 35ft...wow

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--LoxcUP-n--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/a1nxqpncbl0sdpyq4hz9.jpg

apparently control tower said the flight in question wasn't even on the radar at that point

and of course they let the cockpit audio overwrite to save their hides FailFish

So many armchair pilots in this world/thread...

Some people fucked up, but in the end the safety nets and training saved everyone from a giant catastrophe. i.e. questioning the controller, controller issuing a go around, etc.

At night it's extremely easy to get lost in the lights of a busy area such as that.

OK if you're an expert, why not try helping answer some questions instead of name-calling? Everyone fucks up some times...how common is it for both pilots to miss something so routine simultaneously? Busy or not, how do you mistake blue for white on approach? If it's extremely easy and a majorly flawed system, why haven't we heard of more stories like this often?

Not the first time in recently that AC doesn't wanna be accountable for poor piloting. Deflect, deflect, deflect.

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/air-canada-lawsuit-accuses-airbus-of-negligence-in-halifax-airport-crash-landing/article34492680/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&

A320 has only been in service and AC fleet forever...definitely a plane defect /s

[Infiniti]

and of course they let the cockpit audio overwrite to save their hides FailFish

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the CVR runs on loops of 30 mins. After 30 mins, the CVR starts a new recording and overwrites the previous one. Therefore, the time it took to execute a go around, rejoin the approach pattern, land, vacate the runway and taxi to the gate, and then go through shutdown procedures was most likely more than 30 mins. This doesn't take into account the potential for holding patterns prior to rejoining approach traffic, taxi delays, gate delays and so fourth.

Therefore, I believe its unlikely the pilots made a conscious effort to prolong their shift just to make sure the recording of the initial approach would disappear. Regardless of the recording, ATC probably had a phone number for the pilots to contact upon landing, which in turn would subsequently be reported to the airline.

[hud 91gt]

This is a lot closer then I had assumed. No doubt the pilots screwed up. I dont know a single pilot who has not misjudged a runway before for the wrong piece of pavement. The fact that they both did is why this was so close to a scary moment.

Late night, slam dunk SFO approaches, non standard procedures and maintenence on the runway. ATC issues. I'm betting a long duty day. These will all be contributing factors.

The CVR... The fact it wasn't an accident would be the reason it wasn't a rush to grab it. Simply put, the aircraft carried on with its work. I dont know if its the NTSBs job or the company, but either way id assume no one thought it was much of an incident until the details were really seen. The plane probably sat for a few hours then was on its way before anyone was in the office. As stated before. It is on a continuous reel. 30 mins, 2 hours
.. Who knows. The plane kept working.

[Hondaracer]

The approach line they showed on the news seemed like they would have only hit the rear most plane, probably wouldn't have been worse than when the two 747's collided

[underscore]

The design of that airport in general seems weird as hell to me, but I don't design airports for a living.

how do you mistake blue for white on approach?

From that kind of distance, I'd imagine pretty easily. Especially if the blue covers are faded from years of sitting outside.

[yray]

The approach line they showed on the news seemed like they would have only hit the rear most plane, probably wouldn't have been worse than when the two 747's collided

It would be like hitting one pin in the bowling rink.

The design of that airport in general seems weird as hell to me, but I don't design airports for a living.



From that kind of distance, I'd imagine pretty easily. Especially if the blue covers are faded from years of sitting outside.

Airport is in a shallow valley and being by the coast, they have need to have east west runways. Not much flat land in san francisco proper. Also, they are should be blue leds by now.

[Bouncing Bettys]

Another close call, on a planetary scale:
https://i.redd.it/atu1u0ljnodz.jpg

[danned]

No one injured after 2 airplanes at Pearson clip wings
Air Canada, LOT Polish Airlines planes damaged, LOT passengers bused to Kitchener for the night
By Muriel Draaisma, CBC News Posted: Aug 06, 2017 10:07 AM ET Last Updated: Aug 06, 2017 8:02 PM ET

LOT Polish Airlines says the winglet of its Boeing 787 Dreamliner was hit by the winglet of the Air Canada Rouge 767 while it was trying to park in a neighbouring position.
LOT Polish Airlines says the winglet of its Boeing 787 Dreamliner was hit by the winglet of the Air Canada Rouge 767 while it was trying to park in a neighbouring position. (Sumair Balouch)

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No one was injured when two airplanes clipped wings at Toronto's Pearson International Airport on Saturday night, according to the Greater Toronto Airports Authority.

Air Canada Flight AC1713 made contact with a LOT Polish Airlines plane, LOT046, at the gate of Terminal 1 at about 10:18 p.m., Natalie Moncur, spokesperson for the GTAA, said Sunday.

Peter Fitzpatrick, spokesperson for Air Canada, said in an email there were 286 passengers on board the Air Canada flight at the time of the collision.

The inbound Air Canada Rouge plane, a Boeing 767-300, had arrived from Punta Cana in the Dominican Republic and was parking when it collided with the LOT aircraft, he said.

"The matter is under investigation," he said on Sunday.

LOT says entire wing must be inspected

In an email on Sunday, LOT Polish Airlines said its Boeing 787 Dreamliner was at the gate with passengers boarding the aircraft when its winglet was hit by the winglet of the Air Canada Rouge 767 while it was trying to park in a neighbouring bay.

Pearson incident 6
LOT Polish Airlines says the entire wing of the aircraft that was hit will have to be inspected. (Sumair Balouch)

It said no passengers on board its aircraft were affected or injured.

The damaged winglet will have to be replaced and the entire wing will have to be inspected, it said. The flight from Toronto to Warsaw was cancelled. Passengers on the plane were accommodated in a hotel and rebooked to other flights, it said.

"We are investigating this incident with airport authorities and our colleagues from Air Canada," it said.

TSB is gathering information

Chris Krepski, spokesperson for the Transportation Safety Board of Canada, based in Gatineau, Que., said damage to the wings of both aircrafts was extensive.

The board was notified about the collision involving the two airplanes and is gathering information, but has not sent an investigator to the airport, he said. A formal TSB investigation has not yet been launched.

Pearson incident 1
A LOT Polish Airlines plane and an Air Canada plane are shown here parked at Toronto's Pearson International Airport on Saturday night. The two aircraft clipped wings. No one was injured but damage to both planes was extensive, according to the Transportation Safety Board of Canada. (CBC)

"Based on the information we received, it was the Air Canada aircraft that contacted the wing of the LOT Polish Airlines aircraft while taxiing to the gate. The LOT aircraft at the time was parked and preparing for departure," he said.

"We have been notified and we are following up with both operators as well as Greater Toronto Airports Authority, but we are not deploying to the airport right now. We are going to assess what our next steps will be."

Moncur said the collision occurred on what is known as the "apron" in the gate area, where the planes park to allow passengers to board and disembark.

She said the GTAA's Fire and Emergency Services, Peel Regional Police, Mississauga Fire and Toronto Paramedic Services all responded to the collision.

"Any time an incident occurs, we, of course, follow protocol, and that includes calling the Transportation Safety Board, which is what happened last night," Moncur said.

[danned]

https://i.cbc.ca/1.4237349.1502040841!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_620/pearson-incident-5.jpg
https://i.cbc.ca/1.4237350.1502040898!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_620/pearson-incident-6.jpg

[twitchyzero]

Toronto Learns to Park

[GabAlmighty]

and of course they let the cockpit audio overwrite to save their hides FailFish



OK if you're an expert, why not try helping answer some questions instead of name-calling? Everyone fucks up some times...how common is it for both pilots to miss something so routine simultaneously? Busy or not, how do you mistake blue for white on approach? If it's extremely easy and a majorly flawed system, why haven't we heard of more stories like this often?



CVR's overwrite on themselves.

Name calling? Get out of your bubble wrap.

I am no "expert", my IFR knowledge is piss poor at best right now as I haven't practiced it in ages. All I was saying is that the accident was avoided, so although they made some mistakes, the other fail safes did their job.

No it's not common.

[twitchyzero]

dont mind me playing armchair when both pilots endangered hundreds if not a thousand lives even if it was unintentional...to have even gotten to stage of maybe 20ft away from a loaded jet at 160kph is a farce.

i admit if I were in that position, and no one immediately asked for the tape to be turned in, I would've probably kept on business as usual.

i'm just hopeing AC will do something voluntarily so Death doesn't come knocking on the door again. Not even suspending the pilots, but just go, OK how the hell did that happen and how do we make sure it doesn't come to anywhere near that in the future

the worst and likely thing i could see them doing is continue operating without being pro-active just because the incident didn't occur.

[68style]

^ I doubt that, airlines are not in the business of losing planes that cost hundreds of millioms of dollars let alone all the hundreds of millions or more in civil suits they'd have to pay out in the event of causing that many deaths to all the surviving families/victims.

I would expect it was taken very seriously internally.

[Liquid_o2]

Flying into SFO today.

But on United :fullofwin:

[BlackV62K2]

Flying into SFO today.

But on United :fullofwin:

http://i.imgur.com/eNhZmCc.jpg

[twitchyzero]

in reality it's more like what, 15-20ft? :nicethread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP-9Ds9dKFQ

[blkgsr]

Flying into SFO today.

But on United :fullofwin:

i'm heading down there next week on my way to cabo with them