[thumper]

Effective September 1st, 2017, the Port Mann and Golden Ears Bridges will no longer be tolled.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/transportation-bc-1.4261972

live announcement video link here:

Premier John Horgan transportation announcement LIVE - CBC Player (http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1031588419981/)

Tolls will still be charged until midnight August 31st. Those who are behind in their payments will still have to pay up when you go to renew your DL.

the Provincial Gov't will be absorbing the debt as part of infrastructure costs. For this year alone the estimated loss in toll collection is about $132M.

No mention at the moment of how much it will cost to cancel the contract with TI Corp/TREO, other than the building their offices are in belongs to the Transport Ministry.

Not much said on how the new Pattullo Bridge and replacement of the George Massey Tunnel will be financed.

Is mobility pricing coming...?

[ZN6]

Effective September 1st, 2017, the Port Mann and Golden Ears Bridges will no longer be tolled.

Tolls to be eliminated on Port Mann and Golden Ears bridges - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/transportation-bc-1.4261972)

live announcement video link here:

Premier John Horgan transportation announcement LIVE - CBC Player (http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1031588419981/)

Thank fuck this is going away. This will ease the Patullo bridge traffic with people dodging the toll.

[MG1]

Just heard this on News 11:30. Golden Ears will be busy. Good for Maple Ridge, I imagine.

[320icar]

I dunno, I'm skeptical. It's like as a child when you did some thing really bad but then your mom wasn't mad at you. All you could think was "oh Jesus what is going to happen, I'm gonna get the belt"

[pastarocket]

I am also skeptical about this announcement.

The NDP is gonna nickel and dime us another way through increase in gas tax or use another revenue stream in order to make up for the money lost from eliminating the bridge tolls.

[Mr.HappySilp]

So now people who don't even use those bridge will foot the bill too? Maybe there will be a new tax "WFT tax"

[Tapioca]

Mobility pricing is the future. Arguably, it's fairer as you should be charged for how much you drive regardless of where you live.

I'll probably venture into Surrey more though in the short term until they come up with a plan for mobility pricing.

[thumper]

I am also skeptical about this announcement.

The NDP is gonna nickel and dime us another way through increase in gas tax or use another revenue stream in order to make us for the money lost from eliminating the bridge tolls.

Mobility pricing. It's coming I just know it...

[Great68]

Mobility pricing is the future. Arguably, it's fairer as you should be charged for how much you drive regardless of where you live.


Yeah but if you're forced to live in the burbs and have to commute because you can't afford to live in the city proper, then this is kind of a tax on the poor. So really it's the same shit or worse.

[Bouncing Bettys]

https://media.giphy.com/media/TaFTuXWTJf2iA/giphy.gif

Why so soon? It seems they are still sorting out the details of how to pay, to cover revenue shortfalls for Translink, etc.

In related news, the TReO building is to be converted into "affordable" housing.

[whitev70r]

Great news but the math doesn't add up. If you reduced the toll by say 50%, that would make a lot of people happy and increase the usage. But to totally remove it, the revenue has to come from somewhere.

[bcuzracecarz]

So stupid, Imo they should have just tolled every single bridge/tunnel and had it at a lower rate. All people see from this is that they don't have to pay the small fee to cross, but forget that money has to come from somewhere

[Tapioca]

Yeah but if you're forced to live in the burbs and have to commute because you can't afford to live in the city proper, then this is kind of a tax on the poor. So really it's the same shit or worse.

Arguably, it should be the poor who live closest to the city centre. Unfortunately, rich millennials have distorted historical ideas around urban planning.

I don't have an opinion on mobility pricing, but the tea leaves say that it's coming.

[Nabatron]

in reality its good and bad....but in the end its pretty much the same since they will tax you on something else or make up some other tax BS. From a distance it looks good but when you really dig deap government will always be out there to fuck the people over lol

[originalhypa]

Good for Maple Ridge, I imagine.

And bad for Langley as the uneducated Maple Ridge trash crosses the bridge for big box store shopping.

fuck maple ridge.....

[RS_Pat]

Gee, are they trying to buy votes for the next election already! So suspetise... :suspicious:

[carisear]

So stupid, Imo they should have just tolled every single bridge/tunnel and had it at a lower rate. All people see from this is that they don't have to pay the small fee to cross, but forget that money has to come from somewhere

I think tolling period is stupid. People seem to forget that we pay taxes already specifically for things like roads and infrastructure.

what would be best is if they managed their resources better, and use some of that 10bil or whatever earmarked for infrastructure to do whats needed.

[Euro7r]

Too good to be true...They will likely create some form of tax to ding everyone later on.

[Liquid_o2]

And bad for Langley as the uneducated Maple Ridge trash crosses the bridge for big box store shopping.

fuck maple ridge.....

Lol like Langley is any better than Maple Ridge. One and the same in my eyes.

Not a fan of getting rid of the tolls so abruptly. The NDP should have waited until they had a plan in place to either toll all the bridges at a smaller fee (say $1 a crossing), or some form of mobility pricing. Seems this was a knee jerk reaction. They did have it as a promise in their campaign, so can't fault them on that.

[underscore]

Mobility pricing is the future. Arguably, it's fairer as you should be charged for how much you drive regardless of where you live.

Doesn't that sort of already come from the fuel taxes? Charging tax on the fuel and then another tax to use the fuel on the road would kinda be b/s.

[Hondaracer]

700 million in remaining debt will be the NDP's legacy of this decision.

Weaver also saying this was a huge mistake, the greens support for the NDP may be slipping

[winson604]

Even though tolls on these bridges don't affect me directly in the sense that I live and work in Van this is a dumb ass idea. I've always been in favor with tolls but I have no idea why they set the price so high from the get go and why they didn't have different pricing models i.e. get discount for monthly passes vs occasional use etc

Shit needs to be paid for somehow of course we'll just get nickle and dimed somewhere else.

[lowside67]

Perfect, now the houses on the far sides of the bridges just went up in value while the premium for the ones on the close side went down. Glad I didn't just buy a house in New West or Pitt Meadows.

Those of us who earn a decent living were already subsidizing the bridges and the needs of the people who live in cheaper real estate on the far side - but at least the tolls meant those people were directly shouldering some of the burden. Now I just get to pay an even larger percentage of it since all of the funding has to come from taxation rather than pay per use.

Just awesome.

-Mark

[Tapioca]

Doesn't that sort of already come from the fuel taxes? Charging tax on the fuel and then another tax to use the fuel on the road would kinda be b/s.

The gas tax is becoming less effective as a revenue source because cars are becoming more fuel efficient each year.

Mobility pricing is supposed to encourage people to drive less, or take their personal car (electric, hybrid, etc) when there's less traffic.

[320icar]

Is that road pricing going to be BC wide? Or just GVRD like aircare was etc

[invader]

Hulk Horgan coming through

Good news for anyone in the transportation industry.

[mb_]

Short term, this is good for me. I live in Surrey and work in the tri-cities so saving $155 a month for the monthly pass is awesome.


We'll see what happens with the supposed mobility pricing though...

[MarkyMark]

Yeah take the tolls off the bridges that affects some people and bring in a mobility tax that pisses off everyone with a car, great way to get the Liberals in power again if they do that.

[murd0c]

I live in Mission so hopefully the new taxes will only be in the GVRD since I no longer live in it.

[Hondaracer]

Yeah take the tolls off the bridges that affects some people and bring in a mobility tax that pisses off everyone with a car, great way to get the Liberals in power again if they do that.

The funny thing is the mobility tax will effect all the losers who voted NDP strictly on the basis of removing the tolls the most.

[Ch28]

Great news but the math doesn't add up. If you reduced the toll by say 50%, that would make a lot of people happy and increase the usage. But to totally remove it, the revenue has to come from somewhere.

They should've gone with the Walmart pricing strategy. They price everything ridiculously low to move more units. I can't imagine that traffic and revenue wouldn't go up if they cut the tolls by 50%.

[Ch28]

what would be best is if they managed their resources better, and use some of that 10bil or whatever earmarked for infrastructure to do whats needed.

http://i.imgur.com/bls4QTZ.gif

[nah]

They're smart, look at what the promise of the toll removal did? Got them in power, they swept all of Surrey because of it.

[meme405]

Doesn't that sort of already come from the fuel taxes? Charging tax on the fuel and then another tax to use the fuel on the road would kinda be b/s.

Well lets look at some other taxes:

They tax small business owners on the money they make, then they tax the employees of those small business on their income, and then whatever remains of that money people get to live off gets converted to property tax, GST & PST, or whatever other bullshit taxes and fees the government can dream up. A single car can get taxed 5+ times in it's lifetime. You pay taxes on food, you pay taxes on clothes, you pay taxes on taxes. You pay fees for using government services, you pay for your drivers license, you pay for your passport.

So fuck it, bring on another one.



The amount of money our government gets here in BC is disproportionate to other markets similar to ours.

For example AB government collects only 42 billion from all it's income sources.

BC collects 47 billion.

While that 5 billion dollar gap may not sound like much, it basically amounts to ~$1200 per person (irrelevant of age). That means a family of 4 (2 kids, 2 parents) pays almost 5000 dollars a year more in taxes compared to those directly to the east of us.

On top of this with that 42 billion dollar budget AB manages to save money every year and run a surplus. Here in BC our government generally doesn't do that.

It appears that our government is just as much a failure a managing money as most of it's citizens are, the same ones who complain about not being able to afford a place to live here, and continue to eat out at restaurants 5+ times a week.

Forget the racists, sexists, homophobes, and all those other disgusting things going on right now.

As a capitalist, I'm most disgusted by how far western culture is slipping in regards to handling money.

It used to be that advances in technology would spur people like farmers to go get an education and aspire to be more. Now we artificially slow the advances of technology and robots to preserve jobs. That's whats wrong with this society, instead of striving for more everyone strives for equilibrium.

[StylinRed]

And bad for Langley as the uneducated Maple Ridge trash crosses the bridge for big box store shopping.

fuck maple ridge.....

Maple ridge is meh, a lot better than it was a decade ago, but what was nice about the toll bridge is that it kept out Langley n Surrey trash :/

[twitchyzero]

worried about trashes from a neighbouring city in your local store, just shop online

agreed about changes needed
but they came way too fast

either way, i'm not ready for ice bombs 3.0

[Traum]

I think tolling period is stupid. People seem to forget that we pay taxes already specifically for things like roads and infrastructure.

what would be best is if they managed their resources better, and use some of that 10bil or whatever earmarked for infrastructure to do whats needed.
I kind of look at tolling in the same light as "harm reduction measures". With harm reduction measures, of course I don't agree on principle that those programs use taxpayer money to provide addicts with a place to shoot up, and provide them with free needles. But I still support these harm reduction measures because you know the addicts problem isn't gonna go away, and proceeding with these measures is the most practical and cost effective way to control the situation.

With tolling, the idea is exactly the same. On princple, I 100% agree that we already pay taxes that should specifically be used for things like roads and infrastructure. But the realistic and unchanging fact is, governments are hugely cost inefficient. They can't effectively trim enough fat off to properly fund our roads and infrastructure. So that makes tolling the next best and most practical idea.

Another benefit with tolling is -- it acts as an effective incentive / deterrent to influence people's driving habits, and that makes it a very effective (traffic) volume control tool. When Port Man was newly reconstructed, I remember reading that some traffic pattern study said the bridge will revert back to the same gridlock levels as before in a mere 5 years if no (vehicle) volume control measure -- ie. tolls -- are put in place. Now guess what? In a few years, that gridlock is gonna come back.

[danned]

nothing is "FREE" forever
something might come up later

[noclue]

lol NDP going to sink the economy just like the old days. They are pretty much shoving the debt into a drawer and closing their eyes and hope it'll go away. Coupled that with upcoming BC ferry fare freezes + $10 daycare + union wage increases and at this rate of debt accumulation they will have to increase the PST or other taxes or otherwise get downgraded by the credit agencies.

Luckily there's a good chance the Green party won't support them and the party will collapse and forced into a re-election.

[originalhypa]

Lol like Langley is any better than Maple Ridge. One and the same in my eyes.

really?
Coming from a guy who lives in East Van?!
How is that $1800/month, 600 square foot basement suite going for you?
How many times a week do you have to fight with your neighbours over a parking spot?

:lol

You're are ignorant of anything east of Boundary rd.
This is why no one cares about your opinion.

Maple ridge is meh, a lot better than it was a decade ago, but what was nice about the toll bridge is that it kept out Langley n Surrey trash :/

How is Dewdney Trunk doing these days?

https://i.cbc.ca/1.3203210.1440544460!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_1180/maple-ridge-homeless-camp.jpg

:troll:

[iwantaskyline]

really?
Coming from a guy who lives in East Van?!
How is that $1800/month, 600 square foot basement suite going for you?
How many times a week do you have to fight with your neighbours over a parking spot?

:lol

You're are ignorant of anything east of Boundary rd.
This is why no one cares about your opinion.

You're the guy who says he doesn't wear a seat belt in a cab because you feel a sense of trust with cab drivers. Your opinion hardly matters.

[Manic!]

Is that road pricing going to be BC wide? Or just GVRD like aircare was etc

GRVD. Rest of BC would not stand for it.

[Ludepower]

The cost of getting rid of tolls when the infrastructure and management company is already in place baffles my tax paying money.

[snowball]

Short term, this is good for me. I live in Surrey and work in the tri-cities so saving $155 a month for the monthly pass is awesome.


We'll see what happens with the supposed mobility pricing though...

So if I drive down to LA once a year I'm gonna get effed by mobility pricing?

:rukidding:

[DragonChi]

I assume that they're going to model the mobility pricing like they did for downtown London.

[Hondaracer]

Worked as a delivery driver in Langley for 5 years. Outside of a handful of pockets I'll take east van any day over gangley. The downtown area is as bad as whalley most days. Also have never seen such a concentration of teenage mothers in my life as the downtown and surrounding areas of Langley lol..

Not to mention the cluster fuck that is the entire 200th/fraser hwy cooridor. Takes you as long to get from the freeway to 56th then it does from 200th to Burnaby.

[quasi]

So what happens to all those treo employees? That huge building they built near Ikea a few years ago?

[Mr.HappySilp]

Hulk Horgan coming through

Good news for anyone in the transportation industry.

Just wait till you start paying mobility pricing. Then you will look back and argue tolling isn't so bad.

[westopher]

Well lets look at some other taxes:

They tax small business owners on the money they make, then they tax the employees of those small business on their income, and then whatever remains of that money people get to live off gets converted to property tax, GST & PST, or whatever other bullshit taxes and fees the government can dream up. A single car can get taxed 5+ times in it's lifetime. You pay taxes on food, you pay taxes on clothes, you pay taxes on taxes. You pay fees for using government services, you pay for your drivers license, you pay for your passport.

So fuck it, bring on another one.



The amount of money our government gets here in BC is disproportionate to other markets similar to ours.

For example AB government collects only 42 billion from all it's income sources.

BC collects 47 billion.

While that 5 billion dollar gap may not sound like much, it basically amounts to ~$1200 per person (irrelevant of age). That means a family of 4 (2 kids, 2 parents) pays almost 5000 dollars a year more in taxes compared to those directly to the east of us.


B.C. taxes are near exact to alberta. We collect 47 billion from 4.65 million people. Alberta collects 42 billion from 4.14 million people. You missed an important part of the equation.

[Gerbs]

really?

How is that $1800/month, 600 square foot basement suite going for you?



Wait people are renting a 600 sqft basement for $1800. I'm barely asking half of that. Unfurnished :okay:

[RRxtar]

B.C. taxes are near exact to alberta. We collect 47 billion from 4.65 million people. Alberta collects 42 billion from 4.14 million people. You missed an important part of the equation.
to take that one step further

Alberta's 2017 Budget calls for 11.1 billion in revenue from personal income tax
BC's 2017 Budget calls for 9.1 billion in revenue from personal income tax (MSP adds another 2.3 billion)

[GS8]

So what happens to all those treo employees

One article said only a few Treo employees were being let go. Was a little surprised at that. I wonder if others are being relocated elsewhere?

That huge building they built near Ikea a few years ago?

Bring back Bargain Castle!!

:fuckyea:

[Gnomes]

Revenue for breaking Treo contract and toll income lost definitely wont come from pipelines

[Dragon-88]

Haha this sucks for me. I rarely take this bridge but I'm crossing about 6 times this weekend to go to Chilliwack. Wish it would stop now..

[whitev70r]

nothing is "FREE" forever
something might come up later

Ice bombs will now be free, you won't have to pay a toll to get those!

[A-Dev]

Just have Burnaby pay for the bridges :troll:

What will, or should, Burnaby do with its $1B reserve fund? - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/what-will-or-should-burnaby-do-with-its-1b-reserve-fund-1.4253774)

[meme405]

B.C. taxes are near exact to alberta. We collect 47 billion from 4.65 million people. Alberta collects 42 billion from 4.14 million people. You missed an important part of the equation.

Right, my point was more so tied into spending, expenses to run a province don't go up linearly compared to your population.

So if you go the other way and look at spending our BC government spends more per person than almost every other province in BC.

to take that one step further

Alberta's 2017 Budget calls for 11.1 billion in revenue from personal income tax
BC's 2017 Budget calls for 9.1 billion in revenue from personal income tax (MSP adds another 2.3 billion)

That's kinda shortsighted AB residents don't have PST. So of course income tax is going to be higher. I'd pay an extra 1.8% on my income tax to save 5% on everything I buy...

Just have Burnaby pay for the bridges :troll:

What will, or should, Burnaby do with its $1B reserve fund? - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/what-will-or-should-burnaby-do-with-its-1b-reserve-fund-1.4253774)

This may not actually be such a farfetched thing. Burnaby benefited the most from skytrain expansions, it's one of the many reasons they operate in such a surplus, and the skytrain is something they didn't pay for, and has provided enormous growth to their city. This bridge is the same thing, the bridge benefits burnaby, surrey, langley, etc the most. It's not crazy to have those regions foot a bill. Especially when a city like burnaby runs around rubbing their 1billion dollar account in other cities faces pretending they are so good at managing themselves.

[westopher]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but are you talking about spending our tax dollars as a negative? I'll take the better infrastructure maintenance, investment in green energy, protection of resources, and the other things that come with that.
You ever drive a block in edmonton then have a glass of their shitty tap water? I'll happily pay more taxes if it avoids that.
Hell I'll gladly pay more taxes, the only demand being that there is some accountability how the money is spent. We have yet to see if that will be the case here, but it's funny, most of the people talking about how the NDP "bankrupted the province" probably weren't even old enough to pay taxes back then, never mind have any idea about the economic climate. Lots of shit changes in over a decade.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but are you talking about spending our tax dollars as a negative? I'll take the better infrastructure maintenance, investment in green energy, protection of resources, and the other things that come with that.
You ever drive a block in edmonton then have a glass of their shitty tap water? I'll happily pay more taxes if it avoids that.
Hell I'll gladly pay more taxes, the only demand being that there is some accountability how the money is spent. We have yet to see if that will be the case here, but it's funny, most of the people talking about how the NDP "bankrupted the province" probably weren't even old enough to pay taxes back then, never mind have any idea about the economic climate. Lots of shit changes in over a decade.

We might not be paying taxes but I remember parents several part time just to keep food on the table since there aren't that many full time jobs around. Oh and don't get started how hard working people are getting screw while lazy people are getting hand outs that's more that what a min wage workers make.

It sure make sense right? Lazy people getting more than people who HAVE TO WORK for min wage.

[westopher]

We might not be paying taxes but I remember parents several part time just to keep food on the table since there aren't that many full time jobs around. Oh and don't get started how hard working people are getting screw while lazy people are getting hand outs that's more that what a min wage workers make.

It sure make sense right? Lazy people getting more than people who HAVE TO WORK for min wage.
Do you think the NDP were the reason for less jobs? Or are you aware of the global economy? Also, please show me one instance where someone collected MORE on welfare than someone who actually had a job under NDP leadership. If that was the case your family should have quit their jobs and just cruised along.
Regardless this isn't Gordon Campbell, and this isn't 1996.
Alberta's economic downturn coincides with an NDP government, but the provinces #1 contributor to the GDP dropped from $100 a barrel to $30 a barrel in the worldwide market. The problem is people don't understand that correlation is =/= to causation.

[77civic1200]

This bridge is the same thing, the bridge benefits burnaby, surrey, langley, etc the most..

Uhhh did you forget about coquitlam?

[underscore]

I'll take the better infrastructure maintenance, investment in green energy, protection of resources, and the other things that come with that.

Forget all that, I'll just take not having to live in Alberta.

[meme405]

the only demand being that there is some accountability how the money is spent.

This is what I am getting at: Our government spends more per person, and yet we don't get more than any other province.

Yeah sure we have good tap water, that's not really our governments doing, kinda a bi-product of geographical luck. Again roads and stuff of course compared to most of AB where winter is 8 months long are going to suffer. I'd actually say that given that fact, Edmonton and Calgary have staggeringly nice roads.

Our government has won a lottery compared to the other shit the other provinces have to deal with. Our government doesn't have to worry about so many things just given the resources, water, and climate we have.

And yet they fail to capitalize on any of these things and just continue to squander money in the most ridiculous and callous ways.

My point in all these posts in this thread is that I have ZERO faith that our government (liberal, NDP, green whatever) is anything but unethical and self serving in the spending of our tax dollars. So like you, until I have assurances that more money isn't going to be wasted on things we DO NOT need, or more spending in ludicrous ways to appease one minority group of people while the middle class of this province stumbles like a stone thrown down a cliff, I vehemently oppose any further taxation.

There are critical problems with our crown corporations, critical problems with public sector unions, CRITICAL problems with the way our government chooses to spend the money we give them, and for decades an entire class (the middle class) has been too busy trying to work to afford the things we want and our government fails this class at every turn. Taking money from hard working families and giving it to people who don't care to help themselves, or pouring it into extravagant things which serve nothing but their own greed and hunger.

We've been too busy just trying to make our own way, without handouts, without assistance, and while giving up to 40% of what we make which ends up seemingly going to this abyss where we will hardly ever see anything useful out of it. But we've finally reached the tipping point here in BC. The point at which now it has pretty much become impossible for any normal person regardless of how hard or how long they work to afford to have things any normal person should be able to have. I know you don't disagree with that.

I just want our government to stop this ridiculous scheme of robbing Peter to pay Paul. Where they take money from one area (ICBC for example) to pay for something in another area (Medical for example). Or they increase carbon taxes to cover infrastructure spending.

I'd like to see our government start to consolidate the ridiculous myriad of ways they are lining their pockets with our money and develop a more concise list of fair methods to tax our population. This methodology of introducing all sorts of new taxing methods I'm done with.

We need a government who is going to be FUCKING HONEST with us, instead of distracting us with something like taking away tolls, while they find a new way to fuck us with a mobility tax.

Pick aircare as an example, how many of us on here thought that removing air care would end up being replaced by annual inspections, or something the government wasn't telling us? Thank goodness they didn't do that (yet). But how ridiculous is that, that these are things people wonder if the government is up to. Cause they keep us out of the loop on what the fuck they are doing so often. Is that the kind of democracy we want to live in? Where our government doesn't tell us what the fuck is going on or what the fuck they are doing from end to end?

I don't know, just one huge rambling from someone who is so completely overwhelming fed up by our political climate, and unfortunately its a systematic problem which exists all over westernized culture. We're all selfish greedy bastards, and all the politicians care about is how to move money from your pockets to their own for as long as possible. And if you don't believe this just go read all the stories about the ridiculous expenses of so many of these MP's and people you have voted into power.

[stewie]

Just have Burnaby pay for the bridges :troll:

What will, or should, Burnaby do with its $1B reserve fund? - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/what-will-or-should-burnaby-do-with-its-1b-reserve-fund-1.4253774)



This may not actually be such a farfetched thing. Burnaby benefited the most from skytrain expansions, it's one of the many reasons they operate in such a surplus, and the skytrain is something they didn't pay for, and has provided enormous growth to their city. This bridge is the same thing, the bridge benefits burnaby, surrey, langley, etc the most. It's not crazy to have those regions foot a bill. Especially when a city like burnaby runs around rubbing their 1billion dollar account in other cities faces pretending they are so good at managing themselves.

They operate in such a surplus because of the way the city is run. Many cities in north america copy Burnaby's business plan as to how it works. The amount of money they make from all the houses they own is remarkable. They buy older houses for sale and have city plumbers and carpenters fix them and the city becomes your landlord as they rent the houses out on craigslist for a fair honest price.

[Mr.HappySilp]

They operate in such a surplus because of the way the city is run. Many cities in north america copy Burnaby's business plan as to how it works. The amount of money they make from all the houses they own is remarkable. They buy older houses for sale and have city plumbers and carpenters fix them and the city becomes your landlord as they rent the houses out on craigslist for a fair honest price.

Unlike Vancouver, Burnaby is so dumb to say we will end homeless by 2016 (or was that 2017). Lol this cause MORE homeless from not just BC but other parts of Canada come to Vancouver coz you know free housing. And when Mayor Moonbean can't end homeless he goes on to complain about it.

Burnaby also knows bike lane isn't a solution to traffic so instead of pushing all the bike lanes it try to improve on the current roads to prevent traffic in one area.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Do you think the NDP were the reason for less jobs? Or are you aware of the global economy? Also, please show me one instance where someone collected MORE on welfare than someone who actually had a job under NDP leadership. If that was the case your family should have quit their jobs and just cruised along.
Regardless this isn't Gordon Campbell, and this isn't 1996.
Alberta's economic downturn coincides with an NDP government, but the provinces #1 contributor to the GDP dropped from $100 a barrel to $30 a barrel in the worldwide market. The problem is people don't understand that correlation is =/= to causation.

Other countries also suffer from the economy but did you see them end as badly as we did? Have you actually try paying 14% on your mortgage and have your one of parents force to work in another country and only seem them once of twice a year? Bet you didn't have to experience that.

A good gov can turn a terrible economy downtime into a ok one. A horrible gov can turn good times into terrible one just like the NDP.

Don't have to look far. Just look at what the NDP did last week. Let's remove tolls without thinking where we going to get that money from. Let's just tax everyone afterwards. And this is just the beginning.

[westopher]

Other countries also suffer from the economy but did you see them end as badly as we did? Have you actually try paying 14% on your mortgage and have your one of parents force to work in another country and only seem them once of twice a year? Bet you didn't have to experience that.

A good gov can turn a terrible economy downtime into a ok one. A horrible gov can turn good times into terrible one just like the NDP.

Don't have to look far. Just look at what the NDP did last week. Let's remove tolls without thinking where we going to get that money from. Let's just tax everyone afterwards. And this is just the beginning.

Go have a look at Greece or Ireland 10 years ago if you want to actually see what a suffering economy looks like.

Your parents jobs aren't 100% tied to the government in power I bet. Nor are their jobs indicative of an entire provinces economy.

I dealt with never seeing one parent for my entire life, and barely seeing the other for the first 10 so she could afford to put a roof over our heads. That wasn't the governments fault.

So provincial NDP set your mortgage rate?

If the new taxes affect you that badly form bridge tolls, which should have been paid for by taxes and infrastructure spending to begin with, your economic situation was in serious danger to begin with.

This post is another example of how you need to look outside the walls of your tiny world before you think that the way something affects you is the way it affects everyone.

[inv4zn]

This post is another example of how you need to look outside the walls of your tiny world before you think that the way something affects you is the way it affects everyone.

So much truth in this, and it applies to lots of people here as well.

The people that scare me the most are those with an opinion that is both strong and short-sighted.

[meme405]

They operate in such a surplus because of the way the city is run. Many cities in north america copy Burnaby's business plan as to how it works. The amount of money they make from all the houses they own is remarkable. They buy older houses for sale and have city plumbers and carpenters fix them and the city becomes your landlord as they rent the houses out on craigslist for a fair honest price.

Don't kid yourself. Burnaby isn't some prodigy city, their planners aren't genius'. Otherwise a city operating in a surplus of over 100m a year wouldn't have chosen to stick it to their residents even further with a property tax increase of 3% last year. Especially when property values soared in that same period by like 30%. If I was a resident of burnaby I'd be pissed to hear my city has a billion dollar fund, and operates in surplus and continues to raise my taxes. What kind of bullshit is that.

They benefited the most from major developments in areas like metrotown, brentwood, holdom, gilmore, edmonds, lougheed, and down towards the water at river district. These areas have become hotspots of construction activity because of the skytrain stations running near them. Not to mention when the skytrain was built the city owned or snapped up many of the lands near the stations, so they could later sell them off to developers for huge amounts of cash. This is where all that money came from.

It has nothing to do with their operations, and everything to do with the rapid increase in prices in areas where the city owned many lands.

The bottom line is this: Burnaby was not at all densified besides a few small niches, and over the last 10 years they have made tremendous strides in converting those less densified areas (specifically around skytrain stations) into cold hard cash for themselves. It's great, they've done a good job. But without the skytrain the rest of metro vancouver and this province paid for, burnaby would still be a void of dead space and rows of detached homes. They stood to gain the most, and all they have done is convert on that.

[Liquid_o2]

really?
Coming from a guy who lives in East Van?!
How is that $1800/month, 600 square foot basement suite going for you?
How many times a week do you have to fight with your neighbours over a parking spot?

:lol

You're are ignorant of anything east of Boundary rd.
This is why no one cares about your opinion.



You shouldn't make assumptions. I lived in Surrey for 22 years. Saw a LOT of change and growth south of the Fraser in that time, and still do.

As an urban planner, I can tell you that Langley is one of the most poorly planned cities I have ever seen. You might think it's the bees knees with its huge residential lots and sprawling strip malls, but you will never have me singing it praises. It's the closest thing you can get to living in a typical American suburb. Only city I know that built an overpass over a bypass BrokeBack

[fsy82]

Don't kid yourself. Burnaby isn't some prodigy city, their planners aren't genius'. Otherwise a city operating in a surplus of over 100m a year wouldn't have chosen to stick it to their residents even further with a property tax increase of 3% last year. Especially when property values soared in that same period by like 30%. If I was a resident of burnaby I'd be pissed to hear my city has a billion dollar fund, and operates in surplus and continues to raise my taxes. What kind of bullshit is that.

They benefited the most from major developments in areas like metrotown, brentwood, holdom, gilmore, edmonds, lougheed, and down towards the water at river district. These areas have become hotspots of construction activity because of the skytrain stations running near them. Not to mention when the skytrain was built the city owned or snapped up many of the lands near the stations, so they could later sell them off to developers for huge amounts of cash. This is where all that money came from.

It has nothing to do with their operations, and everything to do with the rapid increase in prices in areas where the city owned many lands.

The bottom line is this: Burnaby was not at all densified besides a few small niches, and over the last 10 years they have made tremendous strides in converting those less densified areas (specifically around skytrain stations) into cold hard cash for themselves. It's great, they've done a good job. But without the skytrain the rest of metro vancouver and this province paid for, burnaby would still be a void of dead space and rows of detached homes. They stood to gain the most, and all they have done is convert on that.

You say its not a prodigy city but yet they took advantage of the skytrain construction, like any smart business owner would do. They run the city like a proper business. I give them huge props for that especially the project management/development side and the mayor and his staff. That city is running like a well oiled machine.

Progress is made by timely decisions and educated investments with some small risks here and there. They struck gold:fullofwin:

[meme405]

You say its not a prodigy city but yet they took advantage of the skytrain construction, like any smart business owner would do. They run the city like a proper business. I give them huge props for that especially the project management/development side and the mayor and his staff. That city is running like a well oiled machine.

Progress is made by timely decisions and educated investments with some small risks here and there. They struck gold:fullofwin:

You're right, they did strike gold when the rest of the province footed the bill so that they could have two of BC's biggest infrastructure projects (Expo and Millennium lines) go directly through the heart of the city.

And now they benefit from additional traffic and access through burnaby with the evergreen line and the removal of tolls on the port mann.

You're right they've done great to capitalize on the lottery they won with the all the money this province is pouring into projects that pass right through Burnaby. But you'd have to be completely daft to not realize how lucky they have been with the way things have gone.

Meanwhile North Van can't even get the additional seabus they were promised, not to mention Translink doesn't run the thing late at all so it's useless when you want to go out at night DT.

[originalhypa]

As an urban planner, I can tell you that Langley is one of the most poorly planned cities I have ever seen. You might think it's the bees knees with its huge residential lots and sprawling strip malls, but you will never have me singing it praises. It's the closest thing you can get to living in a typical American suburb. Only city I know that built an overpass over a bypass BrokeBack

I agree 100% that it's a poorly planned out city. I asked the city planners a decade ago about their prodigious use of medians, and the one thing the fellow kept harping on was to control traffic. Not to allow it to flow, but to control where people could go. Langley's designs aren't based on flow. They're based on the township's desire to have power over the masses.

But what do I care. I'm on 5 acres overlooking the fraser valley. When I'm ready to sell my multi million dollar estate, I won't be staying in Langley. As a place to raise kids, it's great. But if I wasn't in the situation I am now, we wouldn't be here. I'm still not sure why the asians love it so much here. I went to an open house the other day for a $3 million dollar executive home across the street from where I live, and I was the only Caucasian person there. A house smaller than mine, on a property 1/10th the size of mine, and they were climbing over each other to put down an offer.

Langley is still ten times better than Maple Ridge though. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Ridge Meadows can eat a brown dick for all I care.

[whitev70r]

So when will NDP announce the elimination of my MSP payments?

[westopher]

When they roll it into your income tax like Alberta does.

[Bouncing Bettys]

When they roll it into your income tax like Alberta does.
Would seem easier to automatically pull it base it off of income than to default charge everyone the maximum MSP rates until individuals can prove they should be paying less or not at all. My ex stopped paying (before we were together) because she couldn't afford to make payments, so they started taking what was owed from her income tax return and gst rebate cheques. I was like: "Are they really so bureaucratic to not be able to put the act of non-payment together with the use of income tax returns and gst rebates and figure out she should be exempt?"

[Traum]

Burnaby also knows bike lane isn't a solution to traffic so instead of pushing all the bike lanes it try to improve on the current roads to prevent traffic in one area.
I agree that Burnaby isn't as dumb as Moonbeam in regards to bike lanes. But as far as I can see, they haven't done shxt to improve any of the current roads. In fact, as the Brentwood area and the Metrotown long term plans have already shown, they are just as fxxking stupid as Moonbeam is by putting a huge amount of density over a relatively small area.

[meme405]

I agree that Burnaby isn't as dumb as Moonbeam in regards to bike lanes. But as far as I can see, they haven't done shxt to improve any of the current roads. In fact, as the Brentwood area and the Metrotown long term plans have already shown, they are just as fxxking stupid as Moonbeam is by putting a huge amount of density over a relatively small area.

How is densifying a small area stupid?

Densifying a small area is the entire concept behind the city plan put forth. They develop areas around the skytrain stations as "Nodes", each node is relatively self sufficient for day-to-day type things, like each one will have some coffee shops, a grocery store, shops, etc. Then each "Node" has larger access to other areas via the transportation infrastructure, namely the skytrain.

It's a pretty typical plan and used all around the world. Means that many people can get away without needing their car save for 1 or 2 times a week. Some people may never need a car.

[Traum]

How is densifying a small area stupid?

Sorry I didn't make myself clear enough in the previous post.

Densifying a small area is not stupid. However, densifying without appropriate measures to manage traffic is extremely stupid, and that is what I was referring to. From what I can see, Burnaby has only been adding density without solutions to tackle the increased vehicular traffic that will come along with the density.

To be fair, Burnaby is densifying right where the Skytrain nodes are as you say. However, it is unrealistic to expect the majority of the residents in those areas to primarily rely on Skytrain for their mobility needs. We are not London, Tokyo, Hong Kong, or Taipei where the majority of people rely on mass public transit to get around. Unless you're going to DT, the majority of the population in Metro Vancouver (including Burnaby) still rely on and prefer personal vehicular traffic over public transit. Moreoever, both Brentwood and Metrotown see a good amount of regular city traffic going through the areas. To develop the areas without presenting a viable solution to manage traffic seems unwise to me.

Perhaps Burnaby has a long term vision / OCP to turn Metrotown, Brentwood, and other similar communities into primarily public transit-centric ones. But if that is their long term goal, it is not something they can achieve on their own. They would need the collaboration and a generally orchestrated approach with the entire Metro Vancouver onboard to make it happen.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Sorry I didn't make myself clear enough in the previous post.

Densifying a small area is not stupid. However, densifying without appropriate measures to manage traffic is extremely stupid, and that is what I was referring to. From what I can see, Burnaby has only been adding density without solutions to tackle the increased vehicular traffic that will come along with the density.

To be fair, Burnaby is densifying right where the Skytrain nodes are as you say. However, it is unrealistic to expect the majority of the residents in those areas to primarily rely on Skytrain for their mobility needs. We are not London, Tokyo, Hong Kong, or Taipei where the majority of people rely on mass public transit to get around. Unless you're going to DT, the majority of the population in Metro Vancouver (including Burnaby) still rely on and prefer personal vehicular traffic over public transit. Moreoever, both Brentwood and Metrotown see a good amount of regular city traffic going through the areas. To develop the areas without presenting a viable solution to manage traffic seems unwise to me.

Perhaps Burnaby has a long term vision / OCP to turn Metrotown, Brentwood, and other similar communities into primarily public transit-centric ones. But if that is their long term goal, it is not something they can achieve on their own. They would need the collaboration and a generally orchestrated approach with the entire Metro Vancouver onboard to make it happen.

To be fair city of Burnaby did a few things that helps. Around Wilingdon and Canada way and No1 highway, city of Burnaby expanded a left turning lane and also made changes so there are less grid lock.

The way the city plans is not meant to have such massive population. Now the cities (Vancouver, Burnaby, Coquitlam etc etc) is playing catch up. As population grows people really need to adjust their driving habits. IE using more public transit but the city did not expand public transit at all. We need 3 to 4 times as much skytrain coverage than we do now in order to get people to change.

You have to remember is not easy to say just add a lane here and there. There are only so much public space the gov can use. HK, Tokyo, Beijing,taiwan, singapore have it plan right from the get to to use mainly public transit so they build their trains,MTR, subway as the backbone of the city and add roads as secondary. Their public transit is much much more convenient than driving (when I was in Tokyo taking the trains is far easier to get around than by taxi), they have impose heaving tax on buying vehicles, vehicles insurances and some cities even only allow certain areas (my ex brother got a car but he can only drive in certain areas in Beijing he can't drive to the city center coz his liscense plate doesn't allow that.).

[Traum]

I know it is not an easy task at all to just add vehicular capacity to the existing road infrastructure, which is why I don't think it is a very smart idea (for the city) to allow high density buildings going up in the first place. You can call me anti-growth, and I am fine with a label like that. IMO, chasing growth for the sake of growth is not a healthy idea at all. If you cannot deliver sustainable growth, I think it is better to hold steady instead of forcing unsustainable growth.

[meme405]

I know it is not an easy task at all to just add vehicular capacity to the existing road infrastructure, which is why I don't think it is a very smart idea (for the city) to allow high density buildings going up in the first place. You can call me anti-growth, and I am fine with a label like that. IMO, chasing growth for the sake of growth is not a healthy idea at all. If you cannot deliver sustainable growth, I think it is better to hold steady instead of forcing unsustainable growth.

I understood your previous response, but then you tacked on this.

Your solution doesn't make sense, if we don't densify people will just come from farther away, so although they may not hit traffic as bad, they still will end up travelling from 2 hours away to get to work. What you are suggesting it like the difference between Los angeles and New york. In LA most people drive, but they drive 60 or more km to get to work, often taking upwards of an hour. New york is a simillar story, if you try to drive it will take you upwards of an hour to travel 5 km to get to work.

The difference between NY and LA is that one has an easy solution to fix the problem and the other it's impossible. in NY the short distances and density mean that mass transit is VERY feasible. However in LA the scale and expanse mean that transit is so cost prohibitive the city isn't even looking at it as an option. Instead just building bigger and bigger road networks to try and meet the demand of people coming from further and further away to get to work.

Pick your poison.

[Hehe]

I honestly welcome the news.

Port Mann should have been free since day 1. It's a main artery that connects Vancouver to Surrey for the HWY1. How they got away with tolling it in the first place is beyond me.

By tolling Portmann, it didn't actually help the transportation much. People on a budget who live in Surrey would still take the Pattulo whenever possible. And it nullified the whole argument to expand Portmann.

Similar argument can be applied to GE, but some might argue it's a luxury.

[Tapioca]

I know it is not an easy task at all to just add vehicular capacity to the existing road infrastructure, which is why I don't think it is a very smart idea (for the city) to allow high density buildings going up in the first place. You can call me anti-growth, and I am fine with a label like that. IMO, chasing growth for the sake of growth is not a healthy idea at all. If you cannot deliver sustainable growth, I think it is better to hold steady instead of forcing unsustainable growth.

The only ways to stop growth are to ban immigration and to prohibit everyone else from outside of the region and in other parts of the country from coming here. I'm sure lots of people would be on board with the former, but the latter is impossible to achieve without drastic consequences to the people who live and work here. You can't do it legally because mobility rights are guaranteed in the Charter. You could make this place unattractive by crashing the economy. However, unless you're sitting on a pile of cash, you still likely won't be able to afford that detached house in a recession.

We all shit on density, but what's the solution when people continue to move and stay here? Open up the ALR? Sell more Crown land to developers so we can all own detached houses?

[Traum]

Personally, I think spreading the city out is a better solution than high densification for the time being. (Medium densification is more acceptable in my books for now.) Some of you may not agree, and that's OK.

The problem is, Metro Vancouver is finding itself in too rapid a growth where we are jumping directly from a low density situation (single detached homes) to a high density situation (40 floor high rises) over a relatively short time frame. We are skipping the medium density situation (low and mid rises) that allows us to better cope with the transition from low to high density. Our infrastructure is not designed to handle this rapid growth. The roads can't suddenly gobble up all the cars. And we can't afford mass transit either because outside of those few pockets of high density, there isn't enough density to support /justify the mass transit.

Farming is important. We need to eat. But that doesn't mean I am opposed to opening up some ALR. As a somewhat similar example, look at the plop of land in Richmond bounded by Garden City, Alderbridge, No.4, and Westminster. IIRC, it was some sort of Natives reserves zoned for farming. The Natives wanted to turn that into a residential lot -- probably of the hih rise variety -- but was repeatedly denied. As a layperson, I don't understand that. Nobody in the right mind would want to farm there when the plot is already bounded by commercial and residential plots on 3 sides.

Life does not have to revolve around CoV. Businesses should be given incentives to open up outside of CoV so that there are employment opportunities not only in DT Vancouver. There are obviously businesses that are location-dependent, but a whole lot of them should also not care whether you open shop in DT, Richmond Business Park or Surrey Business Park.

[CivicBlues]

Demolish huge tracts of SFH and replace with Row Housing. Similar to what's happening along Cambie but at a much greater scale.

Of course that's going to happen right after we ban immigration and close all of BC borders.

[Tapioca]

It's my view that non-strata rowhomes are the ideal form in the medium term. This is where the Township of Langley, City of Coquitlam, and New West have done something right. Unfortunately with the price of land in Metro Vancouver, such homes are approaching a million dollars which is not too far from a Vancouver special with a basement suite. People ultimately want to own the land underneath their home, even if it means being civil with your neighbours about replacing a roof.

It's a shame that other municipalities won't pursue this form which would result in lower prices for these homes in the long term.

[meme405]

It's my view that non-strata rowhomes are the ideal form in the medium term. This is where the Township of Langley, City of Coquitlam, and New West have done something right. Unfortunately with the price of land in Metro Vancouver, such homes are approaching a million dollars which is not too far from a Vancouver special with a basement suite. People ultimately want to own the land underneath their home, even if it means being civil with your neighbours about replacing a roof.

It's a shame that other municipalities won't pursue this form which would result in lower prices for these homes in the long term.

You get your own garage in many of these types of places. Big plus for members on here. Sounds retarded, but having my own garage is really the only thing spurring me to try and move from my current apartment to a house.

[Tapioca]

You get your own garage in many of these types of places. Big plus for members on here. Sounds retarded, but having my own garage is really the only thing spurring me to try and move from my current apartment to a house.

You also get garages in strata townhouse complexes. Unfortunately, most townhouse complexes in the City of Vancouver have underground parkades which require more maintenance and limit what you can do to your vehicles. Storage lockers are no replacement for a proper garage.

I would never go back to a complex without personal garages.

[meme405]

One more note on the whole city of burnaby being run so supremely.

If that were the case the city wouldn't have such a problem with extreme shortages of low income housing, with the final remaining large social housing developments being shut down with the latest round of rezoning around metrotown the city of burnaby has basically turned a blind eye to those residents who needed those units.

It's actually been a major criticism from other cities, like the city of vancouver, who has stated burnaby needs to do something, because the city of vancouver cannot be responsible to build social housing for the entire region just because Burnaby doesn't see it as being a priority.

So yeah, running a city like a business is a great plan, if you can choose to totally not give a fuck about some of your most desperate residents. Good job Mayor Corrigan.

[Mr.HappySilp]

One more note on the whole city of burnaby being run so supremely.

If that were the case the city wouldn't have such a problem with extreme shortages of low income housing, with the final remaining large social housing developments being shut down with the latest round of rezoning around metrotown the city of burnaby has basically turned a blind eye to those residents who needed those units.

It's actually been a major criticism from other cities, like the city of vancouver, who has stated burnaby needs to do something, because the city of vancouver cannot be responsible to build social housing for the entire region just because Burnaby doesn't see it as being a priority.

So yeah, running a city like a business is a great plan, if you can choose to totally not give a fuck about some of your most desperate residents. Good job Mayor Corrigan.

So you expect the city to use the most valuable land to build social housing for low incomers? I am sorry but that have no sense of logic at all. Social housing is needed but should not be in the center of the city. There are lots of area to build social housing on less valuable land.

Even though I don't like how the city re-designing metrotown I do support the social housing in that area needs to go somewhere else where land is more affordable and let developers develop here. Beside is not like all social housing is gone. As far as I understand new apartments needs to have a certain number of units left for social housing so is not like is all gone.

Mayor moonbean can complain all he likes since his goal to end homeless haven't actually work at all. There will always be homeless and there will always be more demand to build more social housing. Is a never ending cycle so there needs to be a stop somewhere.

[Tapioca]

There is a strong argument that social housing should go where there is immediate access to public amnenties and public transportation. Poor people shouldn't be driving cars so that's why you put social housing next to commercial centres and public transit corridors.

The problem with that thinking today is that land adjacent to rapid transit and commercial centres is so expensive. Blame it on property speculators, but also blame it on millennials who don't seem to want to live the surburban lifestyle they enjoyed while growing up.

[twitchyzero]

knew I was saving some coins today, splurged on a $7 bubble tea :victory:

[hotjoint]

Took port mann today, make it to work in 20 mins from surrey to new west. Cut my commute in 1/2 :fuckyea:

[thumper]

Took port mann today, make it to work in 20 mins from surrey to new west. Cut my commute in 1/2 :fuckyea:

i think it's because everyone is gone for the long weekend... i'm gonna wait for next week to see if there are any noticable differences.

[hotjoint]

i think it's because everyone is gone for the long weekend... i'm gonna wait for next week to see if there are any noticable differences.

I should have put that I left at 5:15am lol, that would make a difference :fullofwin:

[hud 91gt]

A lot of happy drivers today. haha.

Despite me paying for your happiness on bridges I never use, this should really help splitting the traffic for more efficiency. I think it's good.

[thumper]

I should have put that I left at 5:15am lol, that would make a difference :fullofwin:

oh okay. i had to start work at 7am this morning. i only gained 10 minutes going over the pattullo on my normal route because i wanted to see if anything changed. the parking lot was only 20% of what was normal capacity when i got there and then i realized it was the long weekend coming up and no one was here.

[6o4__boi]

the real hell begins next Tuesday for highway 1 users

[meme405]

I wonder how this is going to affect the other side, at the second narrows.

Ever since the new port mann opened up with it's larger capacity my commute over the second narrows has become hell in the afternoon, since all the traffic flows so freely all the way until the bottle neck at the Cassiar.

[Hondaracer]

Took port mann today, make it to work in 20 mins from surrey to new west. Cut my commute in 1/2 :fuckyea:

So let's say that's average.. some days an hour some days less.

You were willing to save $3 a day and spend an hour longer in your car prior to today?...

[thumper]

I wonder how this is going to affect the other side, at the second narrows.

Ever since the new port mann opened up with it's larger capacity my commute over the second narrows has become hell in the afternoon, since all the traffic flows so freely all the way until the bottle neck at the Cassiar.

i'm looking at google traffic maps and it's bleeding red northbound starting from willingdon all the way to keith rd... and it's only just past 1:30pm. wtf.

[meme405]

i'm looking at google traffic maps and it's bleeding red northbound starting from willingdon all the way to keith rd... and it's only just past 1:30pm. wtf.

Yep. It's a fucking gong show. Which is why I hate the new port mann so much and I was happy letting those who benefit from it pay for it.

Because the bridge made my life distinctly worse when it opened.

That's what people don't understand, it took the bottle neck away at the port mann and moved it down to the cassiar. So what used to be a clear 25 minutes commute for me, now ranges from 40 minutes - 1.5+hours. And the 1.5+ hour commutes are not some rare occasion. Atleast once a week or 3 times a month it will happen. Even saturdays and sundays the bridge is fucked.

Honestly I'd be happy to see them strip the gear from the Port Mann, and install it onto the second narrows. I'd rather pay 3 bucks per trip and have the bridge be clear, than deal with the nightmare it is now. Can't afford it? Go live in surrey and langley with all the other cheap cunts.

[twitchyzero]

north shore traffic is absolutely balls and I was relieved when I no longer have to cross 2nd narrows eastbound in the afternoons. I don't foresee it ever improving in the future

So let's say that's average.. some days an hour some days less.

You were willing to save $3 a day and spend an hour longer in your car prior to today?...

I only work in Surrey once a week
for me from east van it's $6 to save 10 minutes each week...nah I probably end up wasting the time saved on RS :okay:

for the m-f commuter it's $150/mo...some people don't make as much money per hour as the time saved...so yeah it can work out to their benefit to crawl in traffic

[snowball]

I wonder how this is going to affect the other side, at the second narrows.

Ever since the new port mann opened up with it's larger capacity my commute over the second narrows has become hell in the afternoon, since all the traffic flows so freely all the way until the bottle neck at the Cassiar.

I doubt it will be too affected, the people traveling from Surrey to North Shore haven't been taking transit anyway. Most likely they've always been driving (either Port Mann or Patullo) because no one wants to take transit to the North shore, transit is TERRIBLE getting over there, I can't even imagine taking transit to the North Shore from Vancouver, let alone Surrey.

Or at least I hope it won't be too affected, I cross the bridge twice a day. :okay:

[Hondaracer]

north shore traffic is absolutely balls and I was relieved when I no longer have to cross 2nd narrows eastbound in the afternoons. I don't foresee it ever improving in the future



I only work in Surrey once a week
for me from east van it's $6 to save 10 minutes each week...nah I probably end up wasting the time saved on RS :okay:

for the m-f commuter it's $150/mo...some people don't make as much money per hour as the time saved...so yeah it can work out to their benefit to crawl in traffic

i live in east van and started working at 104th and king George 3 months ago, i could easilly have taken brunette and the patullo to get to work every day. This is ALMOST the ideal commute for somone who wanted to avoid the toll and take patullo (ideal is probably new west heading south)

I tried that once, and the commute home took an additional 45 minutes. Took me one trip to realize it wasnt worth it.


Yep. It's a fucking gong show. Which is why I hate the new port mann so much and I was happy letting those who benefit from it pay for it.

Because the bridge made my life distinctly worse when it opened.

That's what people don't understand, it took the bottle neck away at the port mann and moved it down to the cassiar. So what used to be a clear 25 minutes commute for me, now ranges from 40 minutes - 1.5+hours. And the 1.5+ hour commutes are not some rare occasion. Atleast once a week or 3 times a month it will happen. Even saturdays and sundays the bridge is fucked.

Honestly I'd be happy to see them strip the gear from the Port Mann, and install it onto the second narrows. I'd rather pay 3 bucks per trip and have the bridge be clear, than deal with the nightmare it is now. Can't afford it? Go live in surrey and langley with all the other cheap cunts.

The amount of people who travel across the port mann and onto the North shore is probably minuscule compared to the amount of people heading to Burnaby, Richmond, and Downtown.

My parents live in Fraser Heights, basically as close as you can get to the Port Mann on the East side. For most of his life my dad had to commute to Granville and Georgia, with the old Port man it was a regular occurrence to spend 2 hours a day commuting. Now with the new bridge/highway, it's consistently under an hour 15 minutes, lots of time less.

The North Shore has always been retarded, it's not just the bottle neck at the iron workers

[GS8]

I listen to News 1130 a lot and Cassiar through the Ironwworkers is always a mental fuck wad according to them. Saturday's, too are always 100% a disaster and that's BEFORE the inevitable mid-span crash.

What a geographical time to be alive

[mb_]

I worked in North Shore for a year (I live in Surrey). Most of the shit show always happened due to Cassiar Tunnel or Iron Workers incidents. Man what a terrible commute that was.

[underscore]

So let's say that's average.. some days an hour some days less.

You were willing to save $3 a day and spend an hour longer in your car prior to today?...

Wasn't GE $4.45 each way?

i'm looking at google traffic maps and it's bleeding red northbound starting from willingdon all the way to keith rd... and it's only just past 1:30pm. wtf.

Friday of a long weekend though.

[meme405]

I doubt it will be too affected, the people traveling from Surrey to North Shore haven't been taking transit anyway. Most likely they've always been driving (either Port Mann or Patullo) because no one wants to take transit to the North shore, transit is TERRIBLE getting over there, I can't even imagine taking transit to the North Shore from Vancouver, let alone Surrey.

Or at least I hope it won't be too affected, I cross the bridge twice a day. :okay:

I don't know how long you've been driving the route, but I've been driving it for ~10 years now, and I definitely remember a time before the hwy 1 improvements when the traffic bottle neck was NOT the cassiar/ironworkers. Only time there was a backup on the route was when there was an issue on the bridge or in the tunnel.

The issue now isn't so much the new port mann bridge itself, but the improved hwy stretch through the burnaby lakes area then it bottle necks right the fuck down at grandview, then again into the cassiar, then again where mcgill merges. It's a clusterfuck.

While I'm making this a bitch fest about traffic, I'm pissed off about the lions gate as well. 10 years ago it was unthinkable to widen the causeway 10 feet for an additional lane of traffic, so that it would be a 4 lane bridge. But when it's widening the sidewalks to add 5' of bike lane on either side all of a sudden it's a huge "fuck it, lets pave the bitch". Fucking hell people are dumb. And then adding those ridiculous guards on either side, making the route look all ghetto. Fucking christ moonbeam is an idiot. Can't believe we paid 6 million dollars to make the causeway look retarded.

[snowball]

I've also been doing it ~10 years now. There was a period around 2013 that the cut eastbound got really bad until they finished the highway and then it eased off a bit. Then it started to get really bad again a couple of years ago. I think it's coinciding more with the housing market growth than it is the highway improvement.

I've also heard that since the highway was completed and they added the 3rd lanes to the tunnel, that people are taking the lions gate to get to the upper levels and back across the second narrows just to avoid the traffic in Vancouver.

[!LittleDragon]

I've also been doing it for 10 years. Traveling from the Killarney area over to Seaspan. What used to be a 30 minute commute both ways is now an hour.

An hour commute home used to happen maybe once a month but now it's daily. I don't even go that far along the hwy, from Westview to McGill. I don't know where all this traffic came from, I don't believe there are THAT many jobs on the North Shore. At 1300 employees, Seaspan is probably the biggest employer there but all the labourers are off at 2:30.

Best thing I've done was change my hours to 10am-6pm. Bridge traffic at 9:45 is slow but still flows. Traffic is still bad at 6PM but I work out at the company gym until 7:30. Traffic is dead at that time.

[twitchyzero]

Then it started to get really bad again a couple of years ago. I think it's coinciding more with the housing market growth than it is the highway improvement.



yep I think it's all the condos

not sure why Cassiar westbound's 3rd lane is still exit only

[fliptuner]

When I was commuting from Poco to Seaspan, 5 years ago, it was 30 mins there, 40-45 home. I tried to avoid starting between 7-10 and getting off between 3-6.

Did a few projects on the Northshore last year and man, is the traffic gross now.

[MG1]

It's easy to say the cause is this and that, but it could be due to something else, like construction after one of the off/on ramps.

I drive around the GVRD and see so many stupid things, like cars being allowed to park on streets where it doesn't look like they are going to be in the way, but are.

I was going to Chinatown along Venables heading west. One block before Clark, there's a car wanting to turn left - most likely wanting to go to Fujiya. If they had no stopping/parking two blocks before Clark Drive, traffic would move along so nicely. There are people turning left on Clark and that adds to the nightmare. This is just one of many problems. Do they not have people going around looking for ways to improve traffic flow?

Okay, that was a dumb statement. Moonbeam.... nuff said.

[mikemhg]

Definitely agreeing with people on the North Shore issue here.

I just moved jobs from working downtown to now Edgemont in NV, and JESUS CHRIST, I used to live in Lynn Valley (now Burnaby), and never remembered the traffic this bad.

I've even changed my hours from 9:30 - 5:30, still tons of traffic in the morning heading to North Vancouver, and school hasn't even started. It's common fair at this point even at 6:30 PM to have traffic backed up all the way to the Westview exit.

Don't get me started on Capilano as well, I hit the Steve Nash at the bottom of the hill there after work to avoid traffic, and I'll regularly sit for 20-25 mins just to take a left on Marine, literally 600M away.

It's insane to me, why isn't there a plan? This should be a huge hot button issue, we need drastic change to address this traffic issue in this city, and I see city counsel doing absolutely nothing about it. People better vote these clowns out in 2018, I foresee traffic being a major political topic.

[westopher]

I live in north van and work downtown. It's 20 minutes by bus every day. You have to live and work along a transit line or you are fucked. It's working for me and my wife who has a similar path right now though. There's no way I could work anywhere other than downtown or gastown though without being fucked.

[fliptuner]

When I was working at the highschool in deep cove, I remember some of the teachers lived in Belcarra and kayaked to work.

[Lomac]

For the record, Highway 1 traffic is still better than in the past. I used to commute from South Langley to Capilano University in the early 00's and that was consistently between a 1.5 and 2 hour commute, one way. At least now it's been cut virtually in half, provided there's no accidents.

[snowball]

^ true that, most of the highway is pretty good these days, I remember driving on it before they added the HOV lane, and before they added the 4th lane, what a nightmare


not sure why Cassiar westbound's 3rd lane is still exit only

They tried having it as a regular lane until the end of the tunnel when they first put it in but people were merging super late and the trucks couldn't get off at the McGill exit causing a giant jam all the way through the tunnel.

[RRxtar]

Why dont you guys just all make more money and live closer to work. :troll:

[Hondaracer]

If they took out that dedicated McGill off ramp through the tunnel you might as well shut down the whole McGill off ramp going west. It would be useless without thay dedicated lane.

[westopher]

Why dont you guys just all make more money and live closer to work. :troll:

Because goddamn NDP took our land and money and gave it to the crack smoking wefares!!:badpokerface:

[dark0821]

so... road pricing... lol....coming Spring 2018... I can just see it....

[GS8]

Why dont you guys just all make more money and live closer to work. :troll:

That's what I did.

Now I'm getting out of the stank hole called Richmond and back to Coquitlam within walking distance to the Evergreen Line. 10 min to work now!

[fliptuner]

Why dont you guys just all make more money and live closer to work. :troll:

Move my office from the ground floor to the main floor?

:considered:

[Mr.HappySilp]

Definitely agreeing with people on the North Shore issue here.

I just moved jobs from working downtown to now Edgemont in NV, and JESUS CHRIST, I used to live in Lynn Valley (now Burnaby), and never remembered the traffic this bad.

I've even changed my hours from 9:30 - 5:30, still tons of traffic in the morning heading to North Vancouver, and school hasn't even started. It's common fair at this point even at 6:30 PM to have traffic backed up all the way to the Westview exit.

Don't get me started on Capilano as well, I hit the Steve Nash at the bottom of the hill there after work to avoid traffic, and I'll regularly sit for 20-25 mins just to take a left on Marine, literally 600M away.

It's insane to me, why isn't there a plan? This should be a huge hot button issue, we need drastic change to address this traffic issue in this city, and I see city counsel doing absolutely nothing about it. People better vote these clowns out in 2018, I foresee traffic being a major political topic.

9:30 to 5:30 still traffic jam hour. Try doing what I do now (I switch my shift to 7am to 3pm) Streets are so quiet when I go to work and are ok when i leave work. Best part? I go straight to grocery shopping after work and again no line up as the cashier. Yea it sucks coz if I am not in bed by 11:30pm I will be sleepy the whole day.

Traffic is always an issue that's why city hall is trying jam public transit down our throats. But it just won't work. The way BC is design car comes first. Unless the gov is willing to spend hundred of billions of dollars to totally redesign the whole transit system as well as build a ton of skytrains nothing is going to change. I mean my god if you want to take transit to whistler or even grouse grind good luck. Other cities have buses that takes people to popular attractions like these (like every 30mins or so). Yes transit will be losing money in the short term but if they can improve the public transit half as good as HK,China,Japan,singapore,south korea people are going to start using transit rather than driving.

As of right now unless you live near a skytrain station and your work place is also near a skytrain station public transit is basically useless to you.

[westopher]

Even though I drive, I take the bus every time I go to grouse. It's faster and I can have a couple beers when I'm done riding. Also, it's 18 bucks to take a bus from hotel Vancouver to whistler. It's not public transit, but whistler isn't Vancouver. This city is far easier to take transit in than people who have never looked into it believe. There are certain work/live combinations that are near impossible with transit, but that's also near impossible to alleviate.

[Hondaracer]

i never took the bus growing up, in my entire lifetime i've probably taken the bus under 30 times, i fucking hate the bus/public transit. Also growing up where i did in Surrey public transit was pretty useless as it would take 45 minutes just to get to the skytrain whereas you could drive there in around 15

My wife however grew up in East Van and did not get her license until a few years after we met, and now living in Vancouver, i can see why. If you know the bus system or look up a route planner you can pretty much get anywhere relatively quickly.

As Westopher said, there are a few different busses that are direct lines to places like grouse mountain etc.

If you know where to go and which bus to catch it's a pretty decent system seemingly from an non-user like myself at least lol

[subordinate]

I've also been doing it for 10 years. Traveling from the Killarney area over to Seaspan. What used to be a 30 minute commute both ways is now an hour.

An hour commute home used to happen maybe once a month but now it's daily. I don't even go that far along the hwy, from Westview to McGill. I don't know where all this traffic came from, I don't believe there are THAT many jobs on the North Shore. At 1300 employees, Seaspan is probably the biggest employer there but all the labourers are off at 2:30.

Best thing I've done was change my hours to 10am-6pm. Bridge traffic at 9:45 is slow but still flows. Traffic is still bad at 6PM but I work out at the company gym until 7:30. Traffic is dead at that time.

I have a similar commute and man.

Traffic increase probably due to all the tradesmen building homes/condos in North and West Van. Lower and upper roads there start plugging up at 3pm until 6pm.

It's nuts.

[westopher]

At least once all those homes are built and no one is living in them traffic will calm down.

[Mr.HappySilp]

i never took the bus growing up, in my entire lifetime i've probably taken the bus under 30 times, i fucking hate the bus/public transit. Also growing up where i did in Surrey public transit was pretty useless as it would take 45 minutes just to get to the skytrain whereas you could drive there in around 15

My wife however grew up in East Van and did not get her license until a few years after we met, and now living in Vancouver, i can see why. If you know the bus system or look up a route planner you can pretty much get anywhere relatively quickly.

As Westopher said, there are a few different busses that are direct lines to places like grouse mountain etc.

If you know where to go and which bus to catch it's a pretty decent system seemingly from an non-user like myself at least lol

I know you can take the greyhoud to whistler I think it leaves Vancouver 2 or 3 times in the morning and then back again in the evening? But is not cheap.

And that's where the issue is. Is too expensive to live in Vancouver/Burnaby and Tri cities, Detla, Port Coq, Port Moody, Surrey, Langley is all catching up in terms of housing but still affordable. But the lack of public transit means people have no choice by the drive to work, into the cities.

So the only way the city can do in short term is to build high raise around skytrain station but good luck trying to get on one during rush hour. A lot of the stations is already running at capacity or close to it(Just take the Canada Line as an example is already running at capacity if not over capacity during the rush hour. Short sight by the city to only use 2 cart skytrain and with little to no room to expand the stations.) This won't last long (10 years at most) and the skytrain system isn't going to handle the capacity at all.

[thumper]

the stretch of hwy 1 in north van between lynn creek and lynn valley road... why are they clearcutting both sides of the highway? are they going to widen it?

[pingu81]

the stretch of hwy 1 in north van between lynn creek and lynn valley road... why are they clearcutting both sides of the highway? are they going to widen it?

New interchange

http://i.imgur.com/bH5MuYk.jpg

[6o4__boi]

to the morons who caused the pile up on the Port Mann westbound today...

you da real MVP


i was bracing for a shit commute to work but i was spared this morning, thanks to you dipshits. Now I get spared the shit til this afternoon.

:fuckthatshit:

[thumper]

my commute from burnaby to surrey southbound over the pattullo today was the same as late last week... 10 minutes early, but the number of heavy vehicles dosen't seem to have changed. i wasn't expecting much since all the yards where the trucks park overnight are next to the south end of the pattullo.

northbound traffic is still the nightmare it usually is :(

[Mr.HappySilp]

the stretch of hwy 1 in north van between lynn creek and lynn valley road... why are they clearcutting both sides of the highway? are they going to widen it?

New interchange

http://i.imgur.com/bH5MuYk.jpg

to the morons who caused the pile up on the Port Mann westbound today...

you da real MVP


i was bracing for a shit commute to work but i was spared this morning, thanks to you dipshits. Now I get spared the shit til this afternoon.

:fuckthatshit:

my commute from burnaby to surrey southbound over the pattullo today was the same as late last week... 10 minutes early, but the number of heavy vehicles dosen't seem to have changed. i wasn't expecting much since all the yards where the trucks park overnight are next to the south end of the pattullo.

northbound traffic is still the nightmare it usually is :(

Is back to school. There will be a lot more traffic.

[wickedxj]

New interchange

http://i.imgur.com/bH5MuYk.jpg

WTF, now heading down mountain highway wanting to head eastbound on Hwy1 I have 3 lights instead of the 2 there is now

[meme405]

WTF, now heading down mountain highway wanting to head eastbound on Hwy1 I have 3 lights instead of the 2 there is now

Lol your situation is the only one I can see that is negatively affected by the changes. Think about all the other changes they are making. People can get OFF and on the highway at mountain going eastbound now, MINDBLOWN.

Also the fact that westbound between mountain seymour entrance and the mountain highway exit won't be a bottle neck anymore is a big improvement.

When I first saw the plan, I was a little shocked by the scale of the changes they wanted to make. It's definitely going to have a big impact, unfortunately you can't judge all the variety of impacts until we actually get to see it in action and shake it out and see if it all works. Time will tell. For now they sure are taking their time building it. Fuck me they work slow.

[snowball]

Lol your situation is the only one I can see that is negatively affected by the changes. Think about all the other changes they are making. People can get OFF and on the highway at mountain going eastbound now, MINDBLOWN.

Also the fact that westbound between mountain seymour entrance and the mountain highway exit won't be a bottle neck anymore is a big improvement.

When I first saw the plan, I was a little shocked by the scale of the changes they wanted to make. It's definitely going to have a big impact, unfortunately you can't judge all the variety of impacts until we actually get to see it in action and shake it out and see if it all works. Time will tell. For now they sure are taking their time building it. Fuck me they work slow.

I don't think the MH to Seymour will stop being bottle necked... there will be an on-ramp from MH meaning everyone eastbound on Keith will get on earlier now... Nothing will be fixed until the Dollarton on-ramp pos is fixed.

[wickedxj]

Here's the final outcome, looks like that pic is is only phase 1.
http://i.imgur.com/BHnF1Tr.jpg (https://imgur.com/BHnF1Tr)

[originalhypa]

I don't think the MH to Seymour will stop being bottle necked... there will be an on-ramp from MH meaning everyone eastbound on Keith will get on earlier now... Nothing will be fixed until the Dollarton on-ramp pos is fixed.

Or until they approve a bridge from Deep Cove to Belcarra. Upgrade Ioco to a highway, and you'll have an alternate route that doesn't take you through the downtown core.

With property values along Belcarra, I highly doubt that would ever happen. But man, it sure would be nice.

[meme405]

Or until they approve a bridge from Deep Cove to Belcarra. Upgrade Ioco to a highway, and you'll have an alternate route that doesn't take you through the downtown core.

With property values along Belcarra, I highly doubt that would ever happen. But man, it sure would be nice.

Literally will never happen. Nobody in belcarra or deep cove wants this.

Also I'd rather see the canada line extended one stop under the bay to Lonsdale Quay, and ditch the seabus, and the plan actually isn't as ridiculous as most people would think. The initial report put forth placed operating savings at about $3.2 million/year, and if they do it before they pull the trigger on the new seabuses which are needed in the next 5 years, thats an aditional savings of ~$60 million.

On top of that it's believed additional revenue would be ~1.5 million a year (right away), and it would only grow from there year over year.

So using the estimated figure of 300 million to complete the project, the project quickly starts to make sense:

300 - 60 = 240 / 5 = 48 year pay back. Sounds retarded, but factoring in additional growth, potential future projects, etc. the real payback is probably under 30 years. Also if it buys time before the lions gate or 2nd narrows needs a billion dollar upgrade, then it might be the more feasible option.

Not to mention this opens the option to extend the train further on the NS in the future.

[fsy82]

NDP cancels construction on George Massey bridge project | Vancouver Sun (http://vancouversun.com/news/politics/ndp-cancels-construction-on-george-massey-bridge-project)

VICTORIA – B.C.’s new NDP government has cancelled the current construction schedule for a new George Massey bridge, and is sending the project to a technical review.

Transportation Minster Claire Trevena said Wednesday that an independent technical review of the project is expected to be completed by next spring, at which point the government will decide whether it wants to build a new bridge, fix the existing Massey tunnel or twin the tunnel. Something has to be done to address traffic congestion at the site, eventually, said Trevena.

“We haven’t made any decision on what is the best way forward, we need to be open to any recommendations that are provided to government by the review,” said Trevena.

The decision effectively ends the previous Liberal government’s plan to build a $3.5-billion, 10-lane, toll bridge to replace the aging Massey tunnel between Delta and Richmond. The government had said the existing tunnel was old and unsafe in the case of an earthquake.

“We’re not going back to square one, we’re going back to a thorough consultation with the community,” she said.

The government has cancelled a procurement process to design, build and finance the project. The province had a deadline to pick one of three short-listed firms in October. Trevena said it was not fair to the companies to continue that process.

“We really needed to free them up to allow them to bid on other projects while we do an independent review,” she said.

The NDP campaigned in the election on reviewing the bridge, but did not commit to either cancelling the project or continuing work.

The previous B.C. Liberal government had announced the bridge in 2013. “A new bridge will improve travel times for transit, commuters and commercial users, and open the corridor up to future rapid transit options,” then premier Christy Clark said at the time.

Delta Mayor Lois Jackson has been supportive of the new bridge, arguing the existing tunnel is dangerous and responsible for traffic congestion.

But the rest of Metro Vancouver’s mayors, including Richmond Mayor Malcolm Brodie, have complained the expensive bridge project is not the region’s top transit priority and will simply encourage more vehicle traffic. A new or improved tunnel is their suggestion. The mayors have also argued the money could be better used elsewhere, such as replacing the aging Pattullo bridge, which the NDP also promised to accelerate replacing during the election.

“The previous (provincial government) was entirely focused and stubborn about their approach to this situation,” Brodie said Wednesday. “So I’m very pleased that a group has said stop, we’re going to have a proper review of this situation, work with the various parties… and come up with a better solution.”

Richmond has advocating twinning the tunnel.

Metro Vancouver board chair Greg Moore praised the NDP announcement. “It’s exactly what Metro Vancouver regional district called for,” he said. “We acknowledge there’s a traffic issue along that corridor and something needs to be done, but the scope of the 10-lane bridge was too big and they needed to work with local governments around the whole region, including Metro Vancouver, to find the appropriate solution.”

Moore said he was “happy on behalf of the board” about the NDP review, and was confident the provincial government would include local mayors in the review.

[originalhypa]

^
Damn.
Although they do have a point. Even if they built a ten lane bridge, Steveston would still be backed up for 20 minutes just getting to it.



Literally will never happen. Nobody in belcarra or deep cove wants this.

Lion's Bay didn't want the new S2S highway either. They put it in, and appeased the locals by putting down a bunch of shrubbery, and making it a 60kmh zone :lol

They have to do something. It's a nightmare going into the north shore, and just as bad coming back.


Same goes for the S2S highway. 3 times this summer, it's taken me 4 hours to get back from Whistler. Everytime it goes from 2 lanes into 1, there is a bottleneck. Not to mention that light in the bullshit little shitburgh town of Brittania. On a long weekend it's a solid like of traffic 3 km south of Brittania, all the way through Squamish.

The growth in this province isn't sustainable. If the big earthquake hits, Vancouver would be in chaos. Just look at what happened with the free salt.
:okay:

[Traum]

^^ IMO, sending the project to an independent technical review is a good thing. Everybody knows and acknowledges that something needs to be done with the Massey tunnel, but there is no consensus on what the best approach / compromise is, esp between the different municipalities.

I generally agree that a new bridge with revised onramps / traffic merging measures is the right direction to approach this. However, the details need to be worked out and agreed on by the neighbouring municipalities (including CoV), instead of simply getting shoved down our throats from the Premier. Richmond's recommendation for twinning doesn't seem like a good idea at all because it would cost too much to retrofit the existing tunnel up to current seismic standards.

[Liquid_o2]

Glad that it is going for an independent review. Christy was trying to get this thing built ASAP, with no consensus from the participating municipalities.

My office is near the tunnel, and it is a gongshow on most days between 2pm to 5:30pm. Everyone is travelling southbound due to the growth and expansion of Delta, South Surrey and Langley. I'd rather put up with this insanity for a little while longer, and hopefully have the right decision made for the long term.

I really hope some sort of public transit is integrated into the new plan. Whether it is specific BRT lanes or a future right-of-way for high speed transit, they have to plan for the future, not for right now.

[meme405]

Christy was trying to ram that fucking bridge through and it was the most ass backwards plan. The more you looked at what they were doing the less it made any level of sense.

They say it was to alleviate traffic, and because the tunnel was a seismic disaster and all that shit. Well the pattullo is 10x the problem in all those regards.

The real reason Christy was trying to ram that crap through the process was so that she could get more boat traffic out of the US up the fraser river.

If there are companies who want boat traffic to go up the fraser, they should pay for the bridge. Why should the public pay for such a large infrastructure project just so that companies can benefit from the ships passing below it.

Don't bull shit us and pull the wool over our eyes telling us it's to improve traffic, and make our lives better. This is exactly the reason why Cunty Christy was a piece of shit, she was always just a lying sack of shit and covering up her own motives.

[nah]

https://m.popkey.co/01a69f/YorL_f-maxage-0_s-200x150.gif

[whitev70r]

Twinning the tunnel has got to be one of the worst, costliest, and least effective options. Then you have to maintain the existing Massey Tunnel which is a huge money pit.

[twitchyzero]

Same goes for the S2S highway. 3 times this summer, it's taken me 4 hours to get back from Whistler. Everytime it goes from 2 lanes into 1, there is a bottleneck. Not to mention that light in the bullshit little shitburgh town of Brittania. On a long weekend it's a solid like of traffic 3 km south of Brittania, all the way through Squamish.



4h? :ahwow:

are you on it when there's masses going to musical festivals/crankworx?

just leave a little earlier in the morning?

[originalhypa]

Has anyone else noticed that the Port Mann is getting a lot busier since the tolls ended. Was there really that many cheap assholes choosing to drive over the Patullo?

It's crazy!


4h? :ahwow:

are you on it when there's masses going to musical festivals/crankworx?

just leave a little earlier in the morning?

Leaving around 10am on a mid-weekday morning is usually the best option. But there are times where my hands are tied and I have to get back. The May long weekend was one of the times. The sunday of Crankworx was the second, and the third time was this past weekend. Consider that I'm heading east to Langley too, which adds a good 30-45 minutes compared to those in Vancouver. The backups happen when two lanes go into one. Also the light at Brittania doesn't help.

That said, I must have done that drive 20 times this season without issue. It's simply an issue with too much volume.

[Traum]

Has anyone else noticed that the Port Mann is getting a lot busier since the tolls ended. Was there really that many cheap assholes choosing to drive over the Patullo?

It isn't just cheapa$$es who have been using the Patullo, but have now switched back to the Port Mann. I would also expect a bunch of new, extra people who weren't previously making the trips (or were taking fewer trips) across the Fraser River in the past, but are now doing so because the crossing is "free". Between something that's "free" and something with a nominal charge, people will alter their behaviour quite drastically.

(Incidentally, this is why tolling all crossings nominally is such a good traffic control & reduction measure.)

[6o4__boi]

The worst part is the container/trailer traffic ^

We haven't seen the worst of it yet, by mid-October we'll probably see way more container traffic along highway 1

[whitev70r]

It isn't just cheapa$$es who have been using the Patullo, but have now switched back to the Port Mann. I would also expect a bunch of new, extra people who weren't previously making the trips (or were taking fewer trips) across the Fraser River in the past, but are now doing so because the crossing is "free". Between something that's "free" and something with a nominal charge, people will alter their behaviour quite drastically.

(Incidentally, this is why tolling all crossings nominally is such a good traffic control & reduction measure.)

I'm beginning to see the wisdom of setting tolls at a particular level to manage or discourage car traffic. Just high enough to deter people from driving and to take transit. Before, I was like lower the damn toll so you get more users ... but that is not the most environmentally friendly result ... which is why I think Greens thought NDP's removing of tolls was 'reckless'.

[blkgsr]

i leave my house in coquitlam at 6:20am every morning...what i don't get is why all of a sudden are the roads busier at that time?

can't say it's kids...who's taking their kid to school that early?

[Dragon-88]

I have a buddy to leaves Langley at 7am if not a little earlier to get to N.Burnaby by 9am.. But there is also those who are driving to college and university. Im just happy the weather is still decent so I can ride to work and beat traffic. If I were to commute by car it would be a minimum of 45mins commute. By motorcycle at most i'm 20mins from BCIT area to Coquitlam Center.

[thumper]

i used the port mann last night and the toll readers are still setting off my radar detector. i wonder if they are using them to count traffic numbers or something nefarious...

[murd0c]

i leave my house in coquitlam at 6:20am every morning...what i don't get is why all of a sudden are the roads busier at that time?

can't say it's kids...who's taking their kid to school that early?

It's normal this time of year when everyone is back from holidays and with school starting, give it until Oct and it will die down a little bit.

[blkgsr]

really it's about a 5 mins slow down at this point.

fortunately i commute with my wife so we get HOV on the Barnet and Hastings.

[thumper]

For those of you who want to know more about road usage schemes, across the border the state of washington is doing a pilot project towards introducing road usage once they eliminate their gas tax, and they have a website set up here:

https://waroadusagecharge.org/

[Hondaracer]

Drive from east van to Whalley every morning for work, from June to Sept it was 100% clear every day, not one slow down, not one accident in that span

Since the tolls have been removed it's added +-15 minutes, and there have been 3 accidents since..

#BringBackTheTolls

[meme405]

How's that lack of tolls working out for everyone?

Does this maybe prove that the cheap fucks who were skirting the tolls are statistically shittier drivers? Or perhaps drive cars that are in disrepair or balding tires or just plain crap?

I mean obviously more traffic increases the risk of an accident, but there has to be some sort of coincidence that there were almost no accidents before, and now theres a significant accident every other day.

[320icar]

I have friends in Coquitlam, but otherwise don’t really need to go over the port Mann. Maybe if I was going east on highway 1 from Richmond, I could either go hwy 17 or through Langley and skip the toll, or go through new west and pay. So I always just avoided it. Been over a few times since and the extra traffic is very easily noticeable

[Traum]

The news says that it was a HUGE clusterfuck going westbound this morning, with some 19 cars being involved in a crash. Was anyone in RS affected by this / got stuck today?

[yray]

All these valley trucks need blind spot assist :troll:

[mb_]

The news says that it was a HUGE clusterfuck going westbound this morning, with some 19 cars being involved in a crash. Was anyone in RS affected by this / got stuck today?

I was in that shit show. It usually takes me 20-25 mins to get to Port Moody from Surrey (20km). Took me almost an hour and a half to get to work.

I expected more traffic since they removed the tolls but it's the accidents that keep fucking shit up and there have been way more since they took the tolls out. I blame the cheap fucks who went out of their way to avoid the toll since I never had a problem with accidents on my commute before.

[Traum]

I was in that shit show. It usually takes me 20-25 mins to get to Port Moody from Surrey (20km). Took me almost an hour and a half to get to work.

I expected more traffic since they removed the tolls but it's the accidents that keep fucking shit up and there have been way more since they took the tolls out. I blame the cheap fucks who went out of their way to avoid the toll since I never had a problem with accidents on my commute before.
Shxt that's ridiculous... Even if your boss is understanding of the situation, it's still bad to show up at work being more than an hour late.

[Hondaracer]

Every day is brutal.. every single day westbound is like it used to be before the new Portman/HWY1 project.

Fucking cheapskates, hope spending that extra hour + in your car everyday was worth the $6

[ZN6]

There's nothing right with the god damn Port Mann. First tolls fucked up Patullo bridge traffic, then the icebombs, then removing the tolls and accidents sky rocket. It's like a curse.

[6o4__boi]

i can only imagine the shitshow it will be when the first snowfall arrives

[Bouncing Bettys]

As an aside: Why was the old Port Mann not re-purposed into a bike/walk path, tourist site, bridge yoga site, etc.?

[mb_]

Shxt that's ridiculous... Even if your boss is understanding of the situation, it's still bad to show up at work being more than an hour late.

Yep... this is the second time I've been late due to godamn accidents since they took the tolls out, excluding the snow shit storm.

[meme405]

As an aside: Why was the old Port Mann not re-purposed into a bike/walk path, tourist site, bridge yoga site, etc.?

Because it was a death trap.

Obviously there was other reclamation and logistical reasons,
one of the biggest being that much of the lower structure still had lots of lead based paint, therefore keeping it even for a smaller use case would have costed a bundle just to make it environmentally friendly.

[Ch28]

The news says that it was a HUGE clusterfuck going westbound this morning, with some 19 cars being involved in a crash. Was anyone in RS affected by this / got stuck today?

first day of moderate rain and shit hits the fan

typical vancouver drivers :lol

[Scotsman]

As an aside: Why was the old Port Mann not re-purposed into a bike/walk path, tourist site, bridge yoga site, etc.?

Doesn't comply with current or upcoming seismic requirements? Just guessing

[GS8]

first day of moderate rain and shit hits the fan

typical vancouver drivers :lol

Not to mention the first day after a long weekend.

I'm not surprised with the general fuckery on our roads. I see people running stop signs, driving through solid red lights, lane changes without signals (particularly when there's a car already in the other lane).

But hey at least cars are getting smarter right? That clearly means we don't have to do anything behind the wheel!

:badpokerface:

[snowball]

Every day is brutal.. every single day westbound is like it used to be before the new Portman/HWY1 project.

Fucking cheapskates, hope spending that extra hour + in your car everyday was worth the $6

Their driving IQ is as low as their normal IQ, they were probably spending more money avoiding the tolls (gas and wear on vehicle) than they would've spent paying the tolls.

[FlyinOrange]

Yep... this is the second time I've been late due to godamn accidents since they took the tolls out, excluding the snow shit storm.

Likewise - now switching over from a 8AM departure to a 4:45AM. Missed yesterdays gong show along with the one that is unfolding today.

Toll Elimination meet The Law of Unintended Consequence.

[fsy82]

Way to go NDP..should they have not done some research before pulling the tolls? Has Mr. Hogan chimed in here to tell us what they are gonna do to resolve this?

[murd0c]

Way to go NDP..should they have not done some research before pulling the tolls? Has Mr. Hogan chimed in here to tell us what they are gonna do to resolve this?

of course he hasn't said shit because he hasn't planned anything and now there is just silence from him until his next stupid fucken move.

[fsy82]

of course he hasn't said shit because he hasn't planned anything and now there is just silence from him until his next stupid fucken move.

fucking agreed.

[Traum]

Holy shxt... 30k extra trips per day...

Extra traffic, crashes leading to regular delays on toll-free Port Mann Bridge - NEWS 1130 (http://www.news1130.com/2017/10/11/extra-traffic-port-mann-leads-crashes-long-backups/)

The crossing is handling an extra 30-thousand trips per day, leading to more significant accidents and frustrations for drivers.

[whitev70r]

Liberals be going ... LOL, hahah, ROFL ....

[mb_]

Holy shxt... 30k extra trips per day...

Extra traffic, crashes leading to regular delays on toll-free Port Mann Bridge - NEWS 1130 (http://www.news1130.com/2017/10/11/extra-traffic-port-mann-leads-crashes-long-backups/)

I knew there was gonna be an increase in traffic but I didn't think there were that many cheap fucks

[boibuddha]

Port Mann = Alex Fraser 2.0

[quasi]

I'd move back to Saskatchewan before I'd ever consider commuting over the bridge on the regular and I fucking hate living in that Province.

[smoothie.]

I knew there was gonna be an increase in traffic but I didn't think there were that many cheap fucks

I'm one of them.

Always took Patullo and truck hwy instead.

I'm just glad I don't have a shitty long commute everyday.

You guys should just move this side of the bridge :)


The main problem that I'm seeing, is that the system the liberals put into place, those 15-30k people did not see value in it, and now you're seeing the real traffic pattern. Had they made a more attractive toll pricing scheme, maybe there's a scenario that could be in the middle somewhere.

[originalhypa]

Holy shxt... 30k extra trips per day...


I take the Patullo often. I have some customers in New West, and my physio guy is on the New West/Burnaby border. The amount of traffic on the Patullo has dropped significantly. There were so many cheap pricks who were driving extra miles in order to save the tolls. I get it, it's your money. But there's a point where you need to choose between saving a small amount of money, and losing a large amount of your own time.

[Great68]

It's not all just "Cheap Fucks" that just decided to go the long way in their car, many are probably people that used to use transit or carpool and now are like "Well fuck it, might as well drive!"

[Hondaracer]

Again, that was a $6 decision.

[originalhypa]

It's not all just "Cheap Fucks" that just decided to go the long way in their car, many are probably people that used to use transit or carpool and now are like "Well fuck it, might as well drive!"

I know that my vehicle costs a lot more to run than a bus pass.
I average about $10/day in fuel. That alone is a big factor. Add to that, $5/day for insurance (which is fucking ludicrous!). My accountant has factored that every km I put on my vehicle costs $.25 in maintenance and amortization.

So far, I'm up to about $25/day to run my truck. That didn't include the tolls. Versus the cost of a bus pass at about $6/day.

So yeah, cheap fucks indeed. By adding 20km to my commute bypassing the Port Mann, I'm saving $8 in tolls, but paying $5 in amortization and an additional $10 in gas for a net loss of $7/day. Plus time.

Cheap fucks, indeed.
A fool and his money are soon parted.
Penny smart, pound foolish.

OpieOP

[nah]

When can we have the tolls back? This experiment obviously didn't work, admit to it and move on.

Crusty and the Libs should have tolled all the bridges to force people on transit. I drive over the Alex everyday and I've not seen a drop in traffic. I thought it would be a cascading effect of people moving towards the Port Mann without the tolls. All it did was bring out people that were taking transit.

[Ch28]

They should've never had the tolls that high in terms of pricing. If they had the tolls at $1-$1.50 then I guarantee you that more people would've taken it.

[nah]

They should've never had the tolls that high in terms of pricing. If they had the tolls at $1-$1.50 then I guarantee you that more people would've taken it.

I think at $1 or $1.50, it wouldn't have been much of a deterrent to steer people away from their cars. Though I hate Crusty, they were right to implement a $3 toll. What they should have done is have it like Transit rates, where during rush hour it's high and on weekends and past 7 PM, have it at the $1-1.50 rate.

[Traum]

I think at $1 or $1.50, it wouldn't have been much of a deterrent to steer people away from their cars. Though I hate Crusty, they were right to implement a $3 toll. What they should have done is have it like Transit rates, where during rush hour it's high and on weekends and past 7 PM, have it at the $1-1.50 rate.
You'd be surprised by how much traffic can be reduced even when a token fee has been applied. People are not rational that way. As a readily available example, just look at the gas station line ups when one station is cheaper than another by $0.01 cent. People literally line up, let their cars idle for 10 min, when all they are "saving" is $0.50.

Besides, it'd eliminate a lot of unnecessary trips, or cause people to consolidate their trips.

Having a nominal fee across all bridge crossings is totally an effective way to manage and reduce traffic.

[whitev70r]

Newb Horgan ... "let's just totally remove the toll". No gradual reduction of toll to find optimum balance between revenue, traffic management, and environmental effect.

Was on Hwy 1 yesterday around 12:30pm and sure enough, 3 car accident before the bridge, blocked HOV, and the right shoulder. Now people might consider using Patullo & Hwy 17 just to avoid the gong show on Hwy 1 and Port Mann.

[underscore]

When can we have the tolls back? This experiment obviously didn't work, admit to it and move on.

Generally speaking you'd want more than a month worth of data to make that call. If they do bring tolls back they need a better system for out of towners because what they had before was absolute shit if you weren't a local.

[welfare]

Removing tolls, increasing congestion to the port Mann. Then cancelling the widening of hwy1 216 to 264 which would have alleviated a lot of the congestion.
I'm trying to think of a sensible explanation for these actions and I can't

[Traum]

Removing tolls, increasing congestion to the port Mann. Then cancelling the widening of hwy1 216 to 264 which would have alleviated a lot of the congestion.
I'm trying to think of a sensible explanation for these actions and I can't
I'll tell you how it is perfectly sensible to Anger Management Horgan -- because it helped him win the election.

[welfare]

It just seems crazy to me. I mean, people are moving out to Langley, Abbotsford, Mission, and Chilliwack because of real estate prices. Many of them still head into greater Vancouver for work or WHO.
The past few years and definitely years to come have seen a serious increase in traffic because of this.
And this is the stunt they pull?

[nah]

Where's the promise to deal with real estate? Shadow flipping? First time home buyer loan?

You can't keep on expanding infrastructure, look at LA. Their highways are 6-8 lanes wide and there's still so much congestion.

[quasi]

Removing tolls, increasing congestion to the port Mann. Then cancelling the widening of hwy1 216 to 264 which would have alleviated a lot of the congestion.
I'm trying to think of a sensible explanation for these actions and I can't

Is this confirmed cancelled? I was under the impression that it was being "Reviewed" whatever that means. I didn't realize they came out and said it's dead, if they did that's garbage.

[MarkyMark]

I don't think it's been full on cancelled yet, but it's probably not a good sign when the transportation minister says "no promises".

[pastarocket]

NDP is back tracking on their promise to allow Uber by the end of this year. Uber is gonna be under a review.

Another unfulfilled promise by the NDP. No Uber before end of year, despite NDP election promise - NEWS 1130 (http://www.news1130.com/2017/10/16/no-uber-end-year-despite-ndp-election-promise/)


NDP is trying to deal for the traffic volume increase from their toll-less bridge decision by delaying UBER? :suspicious:

[hchang]

^ thank the tools who voted them into power.

" I don't care if it will cost me more in the long run I want instant gratification now! Give me my free bridge!"

[Traum]

While I support the idea of having private vehicles for hire, I don't necessarily support Uber. In particular, the more I learn about the company and its business practices, the less I support their implementation of the business concept.

In light of that, I don't actually think it is a bad idea to put Uber through an independent review first before the province commits to the program. We want to make sure we have some good rules in place before we actually set them free in the market.

[murd0c]

this isn't a surprise at all, the NDP is a fricken joke. I'm happy to see people are finally starting to notice that now.

[Traum]

this isn't a surprise at all, the NDP is a fricken joke. I'm happy to see people are finally starting to notice that now.
Well, the province collectively decided that Crusty Clark was the bigger joke, and you can't really fault them for thinking that.

With JT's tax revsersal today, I am feeling extra disheartened about the quality of Canadian politics. Regardless of the level of government we are looking at, it seems like they are all a joke. It isn't even just a matter of one bad apple against another. It's like they are all frickin useless... FailFish

[Hondaracer]

People just got tired of Christy and for the most part were too dumb to look much deeper than "Anyone but Christy" Votes

I'm sure all the people who voted for the NDP with hopes of affordable housing and more money in their pockets are all living in nice new homes and going out for dinner on the regular wit all dat extra dough

[murd0c]

Well, the province collectively decided that Crusty Clark was the bigger joke, and you can't really fault them for thinking that.

With JT's tax revsersal today, I am feeling extra dishearted about the quality of Canadian politics. Regardless of the level of government that we are looking at, it seems like they are all a joke. It isn't even just a matter of one bad apple against another. It's like they are all frickin useless... FailFish

Technically Crusty Clark did win except the Green Party fucked everything up by siding with the NDP. I really wonder what they thing about it now since we haven't heard much from the Green Party since that happened.

[underscore]

People just got tired of Christy and for the most part were too dumb to look much deeper than "Anyone but Christy" Votes

I'm sure all the people who voted for the NDP with hopes of affordable housing and more money in their pockets are all living in nice new homes and going out for dinner on the regular wit all dat extra dough

It's almost like the "Anyone but _______" voting strategy is a terrible idea. If you don't like someone that's fine, just make sure that the person you're replacing them with is actually an improvement.

[PeanutButter]

Why not give the NDP a chance.

Everything seems to be okay so far. I'm a big liberal fan boy, but it's good to mix it up once in awhile. If it doesn't pan out, the libs will be back in power, come next election.

let's see what the GreeNDP can do.

[MarkyMark]

It's been like 5 months and apparently if everyone doesn't own a house and have money coming out of their ass the NDP has failed. Get over it, they lost, and telling people how they voted wrong because it wasn't what you wanted just sounds like sour fuckin grapes.

[donk.]

Vancouver needs a much superior skytrain/subway system.

Its the only way to stop excessive traffic. Look at HK and Tokyo, there is a reason why they dont have insane traffic.

[Ch28]

Vancouver needs a much superior skytrain/subway system.

Its the only way to stop excessive traffic. Look at HK and Tokyo, there is a reason why they dont have insane traffic.

HK and Tokyo is also immensely more dense than most North American cities not named Manhattan, NY.

[kr4l]

Vancouver needs a much superior skytrain/subway system.

Its the only way to stop excessive traffic. Look at HK and Tokyo, there is a reason why they dont have insane traffic.

As much as I agree with you about the skytrain, our traffic is nothing compared to anywhere in the states or even Toronto (I just got back from there)

Plus, the traffic in HK and Tokyo is also pretty damn bad

[GLOW]

Vancouver needs a much superior skytrain/subway system.


nah, the answer is more bike lanes obviously :troll: Kappa

[Tapioca]

It's been like 5 months and apparently if everyone doesn't own a house and have money coming out of their ass the NDP has failed. Get over it, they lost, and telling people how they voted wrong because it wasn't what you wanted just sounds like sour fuckin grapes.

I don't think people are pissed off that the Liberals lost. It's people who were naive and thought that the NDP would crash the market who are pissed off.

This election was all about voters south of the Fraser. The NDP finally came up with a game plan and it won them enough seats. Tolls and the protection of the taxi industry were the issues that won them the election.

[RRxtar]

While I support the idea of having private vehicles for hire, I don't necessarily support Uber. In particular, the more I learn about the company and its business practices, the less I support their implementation of the business concept.

In light of that, I don't actually think it is a bad idea to put Uber through an independent review first before the province commits to the program. We want to make sure we have some good rules in place before we actually set them free in the market.
is the policy the government is looking at specific to uber or is it ride-sharing in general?

[Traum]

is the policy the government is looking at specific to uber or is it ride-sharing in general?
From what I understand, it isn't meant to be Uber-specific. However, since Uber is currently the most eager and well known company looking to enter the market, I would not at all be surprised if a lot of policies turns out to be rather specific to Uber's business model.

With the nature of establishing new laws to a previously uncharted area, it is almost to be expected that there will be flaws in the early iterations of the laws and policies. Just as any of our current laws took many iterations to reach their current state, the private vehicle for hire laws will need time to evolve and address any initial shortcomings.

Vancouver needs a much superior skytrain/subway system.

In many ways, we are already fxxked.

Canada Line platforms can handle a maximum of 2 carts. It was designed in the lead up to the 2010 Winter Olympics. I seriously dunno WTF the designers and Gordie DUI Campbell were doing to approve on such a short-sighted design.
FailFish

Our Skytrain platforms can accommodate a maximum of what... 6 carts? During morning & late afternoon rush hours when people are travelling to and from work, I can't even remember how many times I have missed more than 3 trains because they were already all packed by the time they arrived at the station. But hey, at least I can cut Skytrain some slack because they were designed in the early 80's when Vancouver was still a quiet little town.

[iwantaskyline]

Judging by all the reactions here you would be thinking Uber was approved by the Liberals while they were in power (Toronto got Uber in 2014). BrokeBack

Get your head out of your asses, the Liberals only announced they would approve Uber when they knew there's a good chance they were going to lose this election.

NDP has been in power for less than half a year, give it time.

London, a top 3 metropolis in the world just announced they are cutting Uber due to some of their irresponsible criminal policies. I don't mind them taking their time to cut the right deal with Uber/Lyft.

Uber to lose its licence to operate in London | CTV News (http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/uber-to-lose-its-licence-to-operate-in-london-1.3601213)

[meme405]

It's almost like the "Anyone but _______" voting strategy is a terrible idea. If you don't like someone that's fine, just make sure that the person you're replacing them with is actually an improvement.

This is the issue with the first past the post voting system. Creates a two party system where groups have to choose between voting for the party they want in power (who wont get any seats), and voting for the opposition of the party they definitely don't want to win.

Example: John wants to vote for the green party, but he knows they really don't stand a chance, but John also really hates The Liberals, so he figures if he votes conservative then atleast he can stop the libs from winning.

So John ends up voting for a party he doesn't care for, just to stop the party he hates.

Alas this happens over and over until you basically remain with only 2 political parties.

The system needs to be changed to a rating system, where you rate your choices from 1 to whatever. That would fundamentally change the political system here in canada.

[originalhypa]

^
damn meme, we had the exact same thought and posted at the same time.
Now that's something else!
:fullofwin: :fullofwin: :fullofwin:



People just got tired of Christy and for the most part were too dumb to look much deeper than "Anyone but Christy" Votes


I don't think it was a lack of intelligence, but instead a lack of other options. Let's face it, we're a two party system. It's liberal or NDP in BC. A vote to the Greens is like a vote to the communist party, it's wasted.

We are a society that still has old white folk who have always sided with the liberals, and the working class who think the NDP is in their corner. You have LGBTQ hippies and beta males who love the Greens, but thankfully they're small in numbers.

We're not too far from the US when it comes to politics.

[whitev70r]

I think there is a BC Provincial Election thread, let's come back to the Port Mann Bridge.

This morning going Eastbound, thank goodness I had another passenger and could use HOV. 2 Accidents at 7:15 am ... traffic going Westbound at that time was already getting quite busy. Seriously, I don't think I will use Hwy 1 unless I have 2 people in the car or you have one of those eCar decals.

Q: Do you think a paid for usage (by kms) system for an expressed lane/HOV would work here? Like the I-5 (edit: I-405) Seattle, Bellevue stretch. Would you pay to use an express lane? I think I would.

[6o4__boi]

i think the appetite has always been to promote ridesharing and 'greener' alternatives
hence the EV's getting a free pass on the HOV

i don't know about express lanes working here, i don't think it will, always assume that people will pick the cheapest option
for every 1 person willing to pay, you'd find another 8 that will suck it up and take the cheap option

honestly, i think the solution to a lot of congestion mess is to root out the shitty drivers in this province and punish them severely, hell, wring every penny out of their pockets and repo their shit if that's what it takes

i'm not above lashing, tarring and feathering idiots who catch tickets like its herpes in a whorehouse

[CivicBlues]

Q: Do you think a paid for usage (by kms) system for an expressed lane/HOV would work here? Like the I-5 Seattle, Bellevue stretch. Would you pay to use an express lane? I think I would.

That's the I-405. I-5 doesn't go thru Bellevue. They're called HOT (High Occupancy Toll) lanes.

Any stats on how successful they have been down there? I don't think they'll work here. As the current clusterfuck on Hwy1 goes to show us, people are cheapfucks here.

Found this: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/the-i-405-toll-lane-experiment-hows-it-working-for-drivers-state/

Wow max $10 (USD) toll for a 17 mile stretch!

[whitev70r]

I wish the NDP would have just lower the toll instead of getting rid of it altogether. Find that magic price point where the bridge traffic is optimized but not congested as it is now.

Vaughn Palmer: Ending bridge tolls has cost B.C. $486 million and counting
OPINION: Removing tolls will have cost $936 million by the time the next election rolls around

https://vancouversun.com/news/politics/vaughn-palmer-ending-bridge-tolls-has-cost-486-million-and-counting

[twitchyzero]

get ready for even heavier volume if translink strike going ahead tomorrow
let's hope it's over by the time i come back from my trip

[iambuRnz]

i thought it wont be happening until friday?

get ready for even heavier volume if translink strike going ahead tomorrow
let's hope it's over by the time i come back from my trip

[twitchyzero]

oops thought it's already thurs

[MG1]

Any of you still rockin' those TReO decals? I still see them on cars, LOL.

[blkgsr]

i need to scrap the adhesive off my windshield....any recommendations for how to get it all off?

goof off?

[winson604]

^^

Yes, goo off works well for that sort of thing.

[hchang]

i need to scrap the adhesive off my windshield....any recommendations for how to get it all off?

goof off?

Paint thinner and a razor blade

[whitev70r]

Don't get rid of it too quickly, when NDP falls, Liberals will probably reinstitute tolls.

[MG1]

i need to scrap the adhesive off my windshield....any recommendations for how to get it all off?

goof off?

Goo Gone or Goof Off works. WD 40 even. I just used my plastic razor blade-type scraper to lift one corner and just peeled it away. It's pretty thick stuff. However, in this cold weather, who knows.........

[winson604]

^^
Good point about cold weather. In a perfect world you would peel off a decal with the help of a razor scraper and maybe have to wipe minimal residue with a window cleaner. If not as people have already pointed too goo gone, wd 40 is great. A hair dryer if you're able to will also help to heat up the goo a bit to melt it making it easier to scrape.

[tofu1413]

scrape off booth decal after using windscreen defog on hot.

will make life easier and the goo will come off easier