[E-SPEC]

A lot of people will try to put a lower price as sold in agreement with party's in attempt to spend the least on tax. Have you ever seen people get In trouble over this? I'm sure yes when redicoulous amounts are exaturated. I've heard that if a vehicle is sold for under 90% market value they want to you to write the reason why.

[BIC_BAWS]

"engine needs work"

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[Dbone]

When I sold my E36 M3, the guy said ICBC didn't take into account it was an M car. It just looked at prices for E36's, and we had to explain why the guy was buying an E36 at way over the normal price.
:badpokerface:

[TouringTeg]

Same goes for Acura Integra Type R. They put all Integra's into one basket. All are worth like $4k

[underscore]

I think they do that for a lot of cars. They don't consider a Celica GTFour RC from a regular Celica GTFour or Alltrac, which is understandable, but then they don't consider a GTFour or Alltrac different from a 2WD N/A model. Apparently they're all the same and all worth $500.

As for reducing the amount listed for taxes, I imagine everyone just says the car needs mechanical work. I've never heard of anyone get in trouble for it, maybe because they realizes it's a huge scam to charge sale tax on a used vehicle sold privately. If you're selling some accessory with it (winter tires, etc) you could just say the extra money you received was for that. So if anyone asks a lot of people are getting really shitty deals on winter tires with the car they just bought :lol

[ZN6]

I think they do that for a lot of cars. They don't consider a Celica GTFour RC from a regular Celica GTFour or Alltrac, which is understandable, but then they don't consider a GTFour or Alltrac different from a 2WD N/A model. Apparently they're all the same and all worth $500.

As for reducing the amount listed for taxes, I imagine everyone just says the car needs mechanical work. I've never heard of anyone get in trouble for it, maybe because they realizes it's a huge scam to charge sale tax on a used vehicle sold privately. If you're selling some accessory with it (winter tires, etc) you could just say the extra money you received was for that. So if anyone asks a lot of people are getting really shitty deals on winter tires with the car they just bought :lol

I was "lucky" when my car had an engine fire and there were a lot that were going for around 5000-6000 on CL and I got the "market value" for one at the time. Alltrac.net still has that story on the boards.

I'd honestly declare the full value of the car 'cause it's a basis for valuing the car when shit does hit the fan. i'm not gonna save a few hundred in taxes when it means i lose a few thousand on value for low balling if an accident occurs.

Which brings up the point, I never understood why people bought car insurance as a pleasure vehicle when they use their car daily for work. When an accident does occur, you can bet ICBC will do their best to deny your claim. You can outsmart ICBC a few times, but they can screw you when you least expect.

[The Producer]

no car has perfect paint, therefore every car needs a paint job.

what you pay/declare has no bearing on an insurance valuation ^^
(for now anyway)

if you make a claim on a pleasure vehicle and it's deemed not pleasure, you will pay a penalty. ICBC will not deny your claim based on this, they will simply assess a charge to the payout.

where do you get your info ZN6? if things have changed I'm happy to be corrected.

We could tangent into why we're paying tax over and over again on a used vehicle at all. Bad enough that we have to pay it when we own something for the first time. I've personally bought 2 vehicles back from owners I've sold them to (and paid more tax each time).

[vitaminG]

I have heard of someone who underdeclared the purchase price and claimed "mechanical issues" and icbc asked them for proof of repair or an estimate.

[coneZONE]

Awhile ago i bought a vehicle with some work needed, one of the things being a misfire, and the seller told the insurance broker "engine missing" upon ownership transfer, didn't have any problems :awwyeah:
The broker was a bit skeptical but the seller was really persistent so it worked out lol

The other time we had bought a vehicle under market value, it got written off due to vandalism, ICBC gave us full market value, plus the amount that i had spent on repairs recently, as I provided the receipt

[twitchyzero]

anyone tried contacting their MP to see if they will take this double-dipping issue seriously or are they just gonna have a good laugh at the effort to cut out another small but consistent cash flow?

[snowfarmer]

Producer is absolutely correct.

OP, I think probably the only way one would get “caught” for underdeclaring value would be if somebody reported it to the authorities (ICBC? Revenue Canada? I don’t even know who the hell a person would report it to?) probably if a buyer is polite with the seller and doesn’t blast it out to the world on social media that they did this then no one is going to investigate unless you just bought a Ferrari for $2.

no car has perfect paint, therefore every car needs a paint job.

what you pay/declare has no bearing on an insurance valuation ^^
(for now anyway)

if you make a claim on a pleasure vehicle and it's deemed not pleasure, you will pay a penalty. ICBC will not deny your claim based on this, they will simply assess a charge to the payout.

where do you get your info ZN6? if things have changed I'm happy to be corrected.

We could tangent into why we're paying tax over and over again on a used vehicle at all. Bad enough that we have to pay it when we own something for the first time. I've personally bought 2 vehicles back from owners I've sold them to (and paid more tax each time).

[westopher]

When I sold my E36 M3, the guy said ICBC didn't take into account it was an M car. It just looked at prices for E36's, and we had to explain why the guy was buying an E36 at way over the normal price.
:badpokerface:
Ha same thing happened to me as the buyer. The ladies at ICBC thought I was getting fucked over so badly.

[GabAlmighty]

Needs; paint, engine, wheels, driveline, body panels.

[asma123]

I think it's absurd to double tax used cars on private sales.
What really pissed me off was when the hst was introduced and they jacked up the tax to 12% and when they reversed the hst they kept the tax at 12% fucking bs

[BIC_BAWS]

Same goes for Acura Integra Type R. They put all Integra's into one basket. All are worth like $4k

When I sold my E36 M3, the guy said ICBC didn't take into account it was an M car. It just looked at prices for E36's, and we had to explain why the guy was buying an E36 at way over the normal price.
:badpokerface:

Does this mean all the M cars, Type Rs, AMGs, etc. are all in the same insurance basket as their regular counterparts?

[donk.]

I think it's absurd to double tax used cars on private sales.
What really pissed me off was when the hst was introduced and they jacked up the tax to 12% and when they reversed the hst they kept the tax at 12% fucking bs

Iv said it before, il say it again

Whats wrong with a car being resold lets say 6 times, over a span of 20 years?

New 20k > 2.4k tax
Resold 15k > 1.8k tax
Resold 10k > 1.2k tax
Resold 7k > 0.9k tax
Resold 3k > 0.4k tax
Flipped 4k > 0.5k tax
Resold 2k > 0.3k tax

Gov made 7.5k on a 20k car
Not including parts/insurance/gas/etc taxes :joy:

[Mancini]

Declare $1 and then send a copy to Revenue Canada with a big middle finger sticker on it.

[Edison_Chen]

In BC the department that is responsible for collecting he tax is Consumer taxation branch or Ministry of Finance. If there’s any audits that are done, I heard CTB does them but almost a year later.

[Energy]

Car needs paint or has dents. Rock chips, small scuffs, scratches, taps on bumpers etc etc. Paintwork is expensive and you can easily get quotes to repaint entire panels if anyone even asks.

[TouringTeg]

Does this mean all the M cars, Type Rs, AMGs, etc. are all in the same insurance basket as their regular counterparts?

I am not quite sure. I did declared value of $20k I pay about $1300 per yr with max discount

[68style]

Producer is right, the amount you declare on the APV9T transfer form has NO bearing whatsoever on any future insurance payouts in the event of a total loss.

People with M cars posting here went to shit autoplan agencies, every single model and sub-model is on the black book/gold book/blue book guide they are supposed to use to check your sale price.

What do I usually do? Phone an agent and ask what gold book is for the vehicle you intend to purchase. That will give you an idea of how much you can play with the price without raising too many eyebrows if you want to play safe.

[bcrdukes]

68style is right. You guys need to find a good Autoplan agent and stick with them. The information and their knowledge of the processes and procedures revolving around Autoplan and ICBC's policies are priceless. Sadly, we often take them for granted.

[underscore]

People with M cars posting here went to shit autoplan agencies, every single model and sub-model is on the black book/gold book/blue book guide they are supposed to use to check your sale price.

How far back do those go though? A modern M3 might be in there, but I'd be surprised if they're covering 20+ year old cars.

[Dbone]

People with M cars posting here went to shit autoplan agencies, every single model and sub-model is on the black book/gold book/blue book guide they are supposed to use to check your sale price.



This guy wouldn't shut up about how crazy it was that the fact it was an M car didn't change the expected price. It took us 90 minutes to transfer the car because he wouldn't stop going on and on about how good the M cars are and how he had one once but wrecked it. He also wanted a reason to include why the price was higher than expected (to prevent money laundering maybe?).

Yes the model is on the guide, but I think he said the expected price was something like $6 or $7k for an E36 M3.

[The_AK]

I put a negative amount and get the Gov't to pay me back

[Speed2K]

My friend told me he bought a beater Mazda 3 a few years ago for $500 because it really needed some work done on it. The BC government sent him a letter a few months later saying the vehicle was under valued and said it was worth $5000 and asked for the difference in taxes to be paid. He appealed and brought in a printout of the black book value (don't remember the value, but it was less than $5k) and pointed out the work that was needed; they reduced the value, but only by a $1,000 (so the car was still valued at $4,000) and he still had to pay the additional tax. He didn't actually get the work done on the vehicle yet, who knows, maybe having some receipts for actual work might've further reduced the value or justified the selling price.

[Gh0st]

Same story on my SUV.

I bought my SUV from a stock broker at his vacation home in the hills of the okanagan. He wanted more garage space and wanted to get rid of his 5 year old Infiniti FX.

Dude was rich af. Huge house in a gated community, Range, Audis, Toys he had it all. He took 10k cash for the vehicle - didn't even count the money. We went to superstore and got questioned by the broker for a LONG time about why the vehicle was heavily undervalued. We didn't have any explanation other than the seller saying that's all he wanted and didn't care about the vehicle.

Fast forward a few months I get slapped with a 1500 dollar tax bill and a telephone call from big brother. I was forced to pay the 1500 unless I could prove something was wrong with the vehicle. I just paid the 1500.

I drove the vehicle for 6 years before selling it for 10k. I did lose 1500 on the vehicle from that tax bill.

[asma123]

Same story on my SUV.

I bought my SUV from a stock broker at his vacation home in the hills of the okanagan. He wanted more garage space and wanted to get rid of his 5 year old Infiniti FX.

Dude was rich af. Huge house in a gated community, Range, Audis, Toys he had it all. He took 10k cash for the vehicle - didn't even count the money. We went to superstore and got questioned by the broker for a LONG time about why the vehicle was heavily undervalued. We didn't have any explanation other than the seller saying that's all he wanted and didn't care about the vehicle.

Fast forward a few months I get slapped with a 1500 dollar tax bill and a telephone call from big brother. I was forced to pay the 1500 unless I could prove something was wrong with the vehicle. I just paid the 1500.

I drove the vehicle for 6 years before selling it for 10k. I did lose 1500 on the vehicle from that tax bill.
Wow now that's bs

[Berzerker]

That's a whole new level of fuckery. I can't believe they actually force you to pay fucking taxes on an amount based on what THEY deem is fair value for the car. They actually punish you for getting a good deal. Is there an arbitration process you can do for this.

You manage to find a smoking deal through no fault of your own and then your billed $1500 as a reward. Fuuuuuuuuck that, fuck them, fuck ICBC and Fuck taxes. Fuck!

Berz out.

[TouringTeg]

Wow this is the first I have heard of ICBC or CRA coming after taxes.

I have mentioned this before, but in WA state you pay tax based on a book value has been predetermined. You have to apply if you need an adjustment in taxes and have to prove why you purchased the vehicle for below market value.

[Gh0st]

That's a whole new level of fuckery. I can't believe they actually force you to pay fucking taxes on an amount based on what THEY deem is fair value for the car. They actually punish you for getting a good deal. Is there an arbitration process you can do for this.

You manage to find a smoking deal through no fault of your own and then your billed $1500 as a reward. Fuuuuuuuuck that, fuck them, fuck ICBC and Fuck taxes. Fuck!

Berz out.

fucking amen to that. When I saw that posting I got in my car from Vancouver and drove 160kms/hour all the way with my mother sitting shotgun cause we needed someone to drive the family car back.

Props to my mom she hadn't driven long stretches in a while.

Every hour I'd text him to make sure the car was still there. I remember having so much anxiety that my mom and I would get there and the car was sold.

It was a steal of a deal. The car was was sitting and collecting dust! It had a clean title too. After spending money on new tires, maintenance, detail package - big brother called wanting his 1500. I spoke to the case manager letting him know he should verify with the seller and no I was not aware of any appeal process. I was 18 years old at the time and just spent all of my money on my car. I'll never forget how stressful that 1500 dollar bill was. fuck.

[Speed2K]

Is there an arbitration process you can do for this.



As I mentioned, my friend appealed, but found out that they are judge, jury and executioner. Lol!

[Speed2K]

Wow this is the first I have heard of ICBC or CRA coming after taxes.



FWIW, it wasn't ICBC or CRA, I believe it was the BC Ministry of Finance, since it's the provincial government that collects the full 12% tax on used vehicles. ICBC just collects the tax on the purchase of used vehicles sold privately; if you purchase a vehicle through a dealer, the dealership remits the funds to the provincial government.

[6o4__boi]

i'm surprised no one has brought this up to the media or something for it to be followed up on in the spotlight

this is one of the biggest fuckery going in gov...it's ridiculous that something gets taxed this many times and that they can screw you over purely out of greed.

[vitaminG]

They need to get these guys in charge of real estate. They can figure out the book value of a ten year old mazda but they see no problem with zero income students and unemployed moms buying multi million dollar homes?

[dark0821]

^ easy to go after small amounts in thousands of dollars because the amount of work/lawyer/time off and running around... most people will just give up and pay up..

But if you get slap with a 250K tax on a 2 million house... you bet people will lawyer up, take a 2 month leave from work and fight toe to toe with the government....

Same problem with small claims court... I mean you do it just to prove you are right.... rarely there is actually any money incentive to fight in court over a few thousand dollars...

[GS8]

That's a whole new level of fuckery. I can't believe they actually force you to pay fucking taxes on an amount based on what THEY deem is fair value for the car. They actually punish you for getting a good deal. Is there an arbitration process you can do for this.

You manage to find a smoking deal through no fault of your own and then your billed $1500 as a reward. Fuuuuuuuuck that, fuck them, fuck ICBC and Fuck taxes. Fuck!

Berz out.

Shit...

Better lock the Good Buys Thread :troll:

[heleu]

I just sold my wife's car and they have big stickers on the transfer/tax form stating "seller must fill out sale price." I guess lots of people mark down the value to save a few hundred in tax.

The tax really limits my ability to buy private; the amount of tax savings I get from trading in my vehicle usually exceeds any bargains I can find in sale by owner for vehicles worth over $30K.

[Dbone]

I just sold my wife's car and they have big stickers on the transfer/tax form stating "seller must fill out sale price." I guess lots of people mark down the value to save a few hundred in tax.

The tax really limits my ability to buy private; the amount of tax savings I get from trading in my vehicle usually exceeds any bargains I can find in sale by owner for vehicles worth over $30K.

One has to think guys like Patterson paid off... sorry lobbied our government to make it harder and less worth while to buy private.

[underscore]

Fast forward a few months I get slapped with a 1500 dollar tax bill and a telephone call from big brother. I was forced to pay the 1500 unless I could prove something was wrong with the vehicle.

That's ridiculous. When I bought my Jeep I got it for about 1/2 price because the seller thought it had a major ($3-4k) mechanical issue that I fixed for $50 by changing some fluids. How the hell would I even be able to prove there was anything wrong with it when I already fixed it?

[Hehe]

That's ridiculous. When I bought my Jeep I got it for about 1/2 price because the seller thought it had a major ($3-4k) mechanical issue that I fixed for $50 by changing some fluids. How the hell would I even be able to prove there was anything wrong with it when I already fixed it?

You guys need to learn how to play the legal game.

There's a thing called "affidavit". You get a notary to certify one with your statement and slap that to the gov't.

Then they'd know that if they are going to pursue this any further, they'd need to lawyer up and give up...

If you don't even want to spend money on a notary... make it as "sworn declaration". It's the same thing as an affidavit, but without witness.

[threezero]

One has to think guys like Patterson paid off... sorry lobbied our government to make it harder and less worth while to buy private.

This would be most obvious reason

[SSM_DC5]

To those of you who have said the value stated on the tax transfer form has no weight on the value of your car in and instance of a total loss have any personal experience on it?
A total loss within 6 months of purchase, and icbc will try to use that tax form to value your car. Most likely only if the value is in icbc's favour because....... It's icbc

[Mr.C]

I am not quite sure. I did declared value of $20k I pay about $1300 per yr with max discount

Declared value? With ICBC?

Please tell me more.

[Hehe]

To those of you who have said the value stated on the tax transfer form has no weight on the value of your car in and instance of a total loss have any personal experience on it?
A total loss within 6 months of purchase, and icbc will try to use that tax form to value your car. Most likely only if the value is in icbc's favour because....... It's icbc

The very basic concept of insurance is to return it to the state as nothing had happened (or close to it)

In the example you provided, ICBC needs to pay enough (minus whatever known deductions) for you to get a relatively same one (the car, not the money or any sentimental value) back. (again, it's about the OVERALL price, not any single listing)

So, if you had a 2010 Honda that you got for 8G while the market price is 10G, assuming no flag was raised in the first place, what ICBC needs to do now, is not to pay the 8G that you spent, but to pay you whatever a similar Honda in the same or similar model year with similar mileage would cost.

They might use strategies to get you to sign the settlement agreement since it's their best interest to spend the least amount of money to reach that. But you are totally within your rights to research how much it would cost now to find that particular car and have ICBC to pay for that amount. Of course, there'd be some negotiation involved, but as long as you have evidence to backup your claim, it's up to ICBC to prove otherwise.

[The Producer]

To those of you who have said the value stated on the tax transfer form has no weight on the value of your car in and instance of a total loss have any personal experience on it?
A total loss within 6 months of purchase, and icbc will try to use that tax form to value your car. Most likely only if the value is in icbc's favour because....... It's icbc

I have sat on the opposite side of the adjusters desk more than once. I've never seen a copy of my transfer form presented as documentation to prove vehicle value.

They lead with book value, you counter with comparables and maintenance receipts. You go back and forth 1-2 times and you settle.

Does this happen everytime? Probably not. But I bet it's 99% of the time.

Every ICBC horror story you've ever heard is 3rd - 10th hand. We have it so much easier than other places in NA. Do we pay a bit more? I guess. I really don't have a problem w ICBC rates - it's the BS provincial gov tax grab that grinds my gears

https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Peter-Griffin-News.jpg

[TouringTeg]

Declared value? With ICBC?

Please tell me more.

I don't have a lot of info. They asked me the declared value. I only have storage insurance so perhaps that's is why? The agent told me it would help me with negotiation should the car be written off.

https://i.imgur.com/QSblVpZ.jpg

[604STIG]

This is messed up, now i'm kind of worried. I picked up a "new to me" ride this week and got a great deal on it because the buyer didn't want to deal with fixing all of the problems with the vehicle. Seller was not a "car" guy and had everything done through the Land Rover dealership so his idea of how much things were gonna cost to fix was astronomical (he estimated $10,000). I've started working on the vehicle and it will probably end up costing me about $1500-2000 at the end of the day in parts and repairs, he estimated $10,000.

Makes no sense to me that I should get punished if gov't comes back at me asking for proof of value? Seller didn't have a clue, I got a good deal and repaired things myself, there's not much of a paper trail like mechanics bills and stuff for me to throw at them.

[Dbone]

$79 for the year?

I just paid ICBC $160 for 5 months and my car is at the MOST $7k above your declared value.

I asked why the declared value on mine was blank, and that I was ready to give them a number and they just said don't worry about it.

[Hakkaboy]

wow, my 95 DC2 costs me $196 per year in storage costs

$112 for $comprehensive + $84 for 3rd party liability

Live in a condo otherwise i'd probably not get the 3rd party. Mine doesn't have a declared value neither

[EDIT] Just checked my 2007 AP2 storage and the comprehensive alone was $262 + $89 3rd party. Damn I'm getting ripped off

[Berzerker]

Liberals trying to tax people on their employee discounts now. Seems just like this whole deal. "You got a free burger?" We want the tax money you didn't pay.

Berz out.

[Dbone]

They tried to sell me the 3rd party too because "I'm in a condo". That seems crazy. I disconnected my battery, it's parked on the flat. How much damage can it do?

Am I missing something here?

[TouringTeg]

Must be the location of storage that makes my storage insurance just $79 for a year. (Southern Vancouver Island)