[Manic!]

Rumors 20 plus dead and multiple shooters at different locations.

Las Vegas Boulevard Shooting: 5 Fast Facts You Need to$Know (http://heavy.com/news/2017/10/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-boulevard-active-shooter-shooting-victims-attack/)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMfjLD8eMAc

[- kT]

sounds like it's still ongoing too, police just tweeted to not post photos of their postitions.. another major terrorist attack?

[Harvey Specter]

Live coverage from LV...

Las Vegas Live | News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KSNV (http://news3lv.com/live)

Supposedly bomb squad have surrounded a van near Luxor.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Live: Las Vegas shooting leaves 'multiple victims' amid reports of active shooter at Mandalay Bay casino - Mirror Online (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/live-las-vegas-shooting-leaves-11272935)

looks like shooters are dead and 2 people are dead they claim...

[Manic!]

Live: Las Vegas shooting leaves 'multiple victims' amid reports of active shooter at Mandalay Bay casino - Mirror Online (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/live-las-vegas-shooting-leaves-11272935)

looks like shooters are dead and 2 people are dead they claim...

A lot more people are going to be dead.

[bananana]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7ixInjs0C4

[Mr.HappySilp]

police just confirm there is only 1 shooters.

[Manic!]

Press conference

The shooter was local. police looking for a companion named Mary lou Danley she is a 4 foot 11 Asian.

20 plus dead 100 plus injured.

[Manic!]

Facebook of the person of interest.
https://www.facebook.com/marilou.danley

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/15665579_10207368855490888_9115205089026842838_n.j pg?oh=33cfd35bec791cc8ac9110ebb1eda397&oe=5A7A4F9F

[Manic!]

The shooter is stephen paddock. This could be his pic.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLH-ANSX0AAYqSk.jpg

[Manic!]

Over 50 dead 200 injured.

[murd0c]

So sad the deadliest shooting in modern history and of course it happens in a state which allows automatic weapons

[stewie]

Very sad.

Perhaps it's time they do an overhaul of their 2nd amendment and make it more modern for the 21st century. I remember watching one of those american documentaries and it really doesn't help when you could open a bank account and receive a free rifle...

[- kT]

at least 50 dead, 400+ injured.. deadliest mass shooting in history

shot from 32nd floor of the MB to the concert across the street

[sonick]

Since the shooter is white, maybe this will finally open up a serious conversation about gun control in the states... :okay:

[Infiniti]

Since the shooter is white, maybe this will finally open up a serious conversation about gun control in the states... :okay:

It'll blow over and whittle away into the annals of history. The narrative will focus on "mental health" when in reality Americans should be having a frank/difficult discussion about gun rights. Its a like a broken record. Many more incidents like this will happen, because it would seem that these types of crimes are recurrent like clockwork.

[Vansterdam]

dude must really hate country music

[pastarocket]

RIP. -wonder what Dotard will say in his speech this morning about this shooting. :considered:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TouringTeg]

INB4 the NRA goes quiet then makes a statement saying Americans need more guns for protection.

[hchang]

#WhiteLivesMatter

Dudes 64 lol

Probably upset he can't get it up anymore.

Glad the police killed that waste of space

[Bouncing Bettys]

If the murder of 20 young children and 7 others at Sandy Hook wasn't enough to convince them to make changes on gun control, this certainly won't.

On 1130am they said that without any supporting evidence, ISIS was claiming he converted to Islam months before last night.

[6o4__boi]

jesus fuck

RIP

[westopher]

Fuck isis. They are about as relevant to this as I am to the edmonton oilers 1985 Stanley cup victory. All they do is latch on to anything to further the idea that they have some sort of control. They are weak and are grasping at straws to maintain any sort of fear they built up.

America doesn’t need isis to divide themselves anymore. They need to fear themselves more than anyone.
If this triggers no measurable reaction in the states more than 1 like=1 prayer, and not some sort of action towards recognizing gun violence is a direct result of their gun culture, it can not be saved.

This is absolutely horrendous.

[Digitalis]

I smell some discounts coming up for vegas.
MG1?

[jackmeister]

im going to vegas this weekend.......:badpokerface:

[Vansterdam]

heard there will be great deals @ Mandalay.

side note. wonder if they will reopen the actual room he was in to let people stay

freaky shit

[Traum]

So sad the deadliest shooting in modern history and of course it happens in a state which allows automatic weapons
It isn't really about the state allowing automatic weapons or not. If you know what you are doing, it is relatively easy to mod a semi-automatic weapon into an automatic one.

[stewie]

How did the lock down work? Everyone was sent inside a hotel or to their rooms? Gambling still continued as if nothing had happened?

[geeknerd]

58 dead, over 500 injured.

Gunman was Stephen Paddock and though ISIS claimed him as a soldier, fbi found no links to terror organization as of yet.

Shooter was found on the 32nd floor of Mandalay Bay hotel. Killed himself when police found the room. Had 10 rifles and cctv set up to see if police were coming.

Person of interest Marilou Danley believed to be paddock's roommate and seen together by witness.

[threezero]

It isn't really about the state allowing automatic weapons or not. If you know what you are doing, it is relatively easy to mod a semi-automatic weapon into an automatic one.

heavy restriction of all guns is the way to go

[Mr.HappySilp]

heavy restriction of all guns is the way to go

Ban guns altogether.

[Traum]

heavy restriction of all guns is the way to go
I agree and that is quite obvious to the rest of the world. Unfortunately, given the 2nd Amendment and the mentality of a very large body of gun owners (and the NRA, of course), I don't see how better / more restrictive gun control legislations can ever hope to pass.

[Manic!]

How did the lock down work? Everyone was sent inside a hotel or to their rooms? Gambling still continued as if nothing had happened?

Everything was shut down the tables where closed and covered.

[bcuzracecarz]

Guy on CNN this morning had a good quote, "As long as we keep advertising this as, 'the greatest, or the worst' mass shooting in us history, we just create a new record mentality for the next psychopath to beat". Totally agree, how you have 10 weapons in your hotel room unnoticed is unbelievable. Can see it already in comments on social media, "if I was to do it, I would have done this..." or "the next mass shorter will learn from this".... agree with westopher tho, the US people should fear themselves more than any terrorist organization

[Manic!]

https://www.commondreams.org/sites/default/files/imce-images/suppressorhead2.jpg

So the NRA and the republicans are pushing a new bill to make it easier to get a silencer. Just imagine if this guy had a silencer.

[RRxtar]

Look forward to more info coming forward. But so far it sounds like he's not known to police, no ties to anything, it wasn't targeted at a group (racial etc), and his family can't believe it.

No conspiracy, but does anyone ever wonder if maybe there is some conspiracy?

[prudz]

The thought crossed my mind that if someone was so passionate about anti gun laws would they go out of their mind to pull something like this off in hopes that the laws change? It would be pretty wild if that is what someone was willing to do to try and incite change. Highly unlikely but who knows in this crazy world.

[underscore]

It isn't really about the state allowing automatic weapons or not. If you know what you are doing, it is relatively easy to mod a semi-automatic weapon into an automatic one.

It still takes more work though, just like buying an illegal gun vs a legal one. Which isn't something these kinds of people usually do.

[Adorkami]

https://www.commondreams.org/sites/default/files/imce-images/suppressorhead2.jpg

So the NRA and the republicans are pushing a new bill to make it easier to get a silencer. Just imagine if this guy had a silencer.

Even with a silencer it is still very loud, just not as loud. It's not like the movies

[fliptuner]

US border guard friend, just told me a guy had to head down to ID a family member. So sad.

[Manic!]

Even with a silencer it is still very loud, just not as loud. It's not like the movies

I know last time I was in Vegas we rented guns and one of the guys in our group rented one with a suppressor. At 3 to 400 yards where the shooter was it's going to make a difference. I would be hard to hear over the loud P.A. system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqUcB1xX-Dw

[welfare]

Ban guns altogether.

and give free reign to criminals

[Rallydrv]

have they started chanting this again yet

we need more "good guys" with a gun. good guys with assault style weapon that is..
fucking crazy logic.

[6o4__boi]

Well, shit.

https://twitter.com/ReutersUS/status/914937007515856896

[!LittleDragon]

Americans love their guys, I get that... but deep down, they must know that as long as people have guns, these things will keep happening.

Do what you want, own what you want but also know what the consequences are. When something like this happens, they shouldn't complain. If they don't want these things to happen then they know what needs to be done. They just won't do it.

[MarkyMark]

I don't even think deep down they feel anything, they love guns and there's no kind of shooting that could take place that will change their view on that. The death count could have been in the thousands. If anything the more shootings that occur will just solidify their stance that they need guns for protection.

[Liquid_o2]

LAPD saying there was NO shooting at USC as of 2 min ago.

[hchang]

Ban guns altogether.

Yes because guns grow minds of their own and shoot people.

Just because a few people can't handle the responsibility doesn't mean other people shouldn't be able to enjoy it.

[Manic!]

and give free reign to criminals

When is the last time a good guy with a gun has stopped a bad guy with a gun in Canada?

[geeknerd]

When is the last time a good guy with a gun has stopped a bad guy with a gun in Canada?

2017/06/27 Peel police responded to a 15 year old trying to steal a car with a BB gun and shot him from close range with an assault rifle.

[!LittleDragon]

When is the last time a good guy with a gun has stopped a bad guy with a gun in Canada?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_shootings_at_Parliament_Hill,_Ottawa

[StylinRed]

Stephen Paddock: Vegas suspect a gambler and ex-accountant - BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41472462)

64 yr old retired wealrhy accountant
His father was once the most wanted man by the fbi for bank robberies and escaping prison

Room was full of ammo and guns

[CivicBlues]

I think Manic is asking when the last time a private citizen armed with a gun took out a bad guy.

Law enforcement does this on a daily basis I'm guessing

[pastarocket]

-interesting article about U.S. gun culture:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/02/politics/guns-maps-las-vegas/index.html

[GS8]

Then there's this megatard

CBS executive fired after saying Las Vegas victims didn't deserve sympathy | TheHill (http://thehill.com/homenews/media/353495-cbs-executive-fired-after-saying-las-vegas-victims-didnt-deserve-sympathy)

EDIT: As is typical with the cancer that is social media, others posted similar points of view

https://bluelivesmatter.blue/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/tab-turt-carter-las-vegas.jpg

[Adorkami]

When is the last time a good guy with a gun has stopped a bad guy with a gun in Canada?

When I was a kid my dad stopped a guy who had a gun(had tried to kill someone else), but he did so without a gun. Would of been a lot easier to just shoot him.

[welfare]

When is the last time a good guy with a gun has stopped a bad guy with a gun in Canada?

who was talking about canada?

[mr_chin]

Don't ban guns because they're scared of government tyranny.

I'm afraid the bad guys will take more American lives than the government ever will.

[The_Situation]

2017/06/27 Peel police responded to a 15 year old trying to steal a car with a BB gun and shot him from close range with an assault rifle.

????? Peel police

[sonick]

????? Peel police

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_Municipality_of_Peel

[threezero]

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2017/10/02/i-cannot-express-how-wrong-i-was-country-guitarist-changes-mind-on-gun-control-after-vegas/

Don’t be stupid the chance of any armed citizen stopping a mass gun Murder is ZERO.

The singer’s entourage were all packing, this being a country festival I bet a lot of people were packing too.

Let’s not discuss whether you will actually be able to take out someone with an automatic assault weapon with your concealed carry little hand gun.


Who in their right mind would even take out their firearm in a situation like this. It would be a great way to get your head pop off by the police.

The effectiveness of citizen sheepdog are made up propaganda by NRA and their supporters.

[hchang]

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2017/10/02/i-cannot-express-how-wrong-i-was-country-guitarist-changes-mind-on-gun-control-after-vegas/

Don’t be stupid the chance of any armed citizen stopping a mass gun Murder is ZERO.

The singer’s entourage were all packing, this being a country festival I bet a lot of people were packing too.

Let’s not discuss whether you will actually be able to take out someone with an automatic assault weapon with your concealed carry little hand gun.


Who in their right mind would even take out their firearm in a situation like this. It would be a great way to get your head pop off by the police.

The effectiveness of citizen sheepdog are made up propaganda by NRA and their supporters.

Who in the right mind would shoot some looney tune causing havoc? A gun owner who cherishes their family's life, their own life and/or other people's lives.

And the police won't shoot you if you take out the piece of shit before they get there, or holster your weapon when they arrive.

With the right marksmanship and taking strategic cover you can easily stop the threat even if they're using an automatic vs your pistol.

It is not propaganda, when's the last time you heard of anything like this happening in Texas?

[Jmac]

Could anyone even tell where the shots were coming from in the crowd? And then, as above, even if you located the shooter, that's a hell of a shot to try to make while trying to hide behind cover.

[Ch28]

Could anyone even tell where the shots were coming from in the crowd? And then, as above, even if you located the shooter, that's a hell of a shot to try to make while trying to hide behind cover.

This isn't like the movies. You fucking run when you hear shots being fired nearby

[Jmac]

Who in the right mind would shoot some looney tune causing havoc? A gun owner who cherishes their family's life, their own life and/or other people's lives.

And the police won't shoot you if you take out the piece of shit before they get there, or holster your weapon when they arrive.

With the right marksmanship and taking strategic cover you can easily stop the threat even if they're using an automatic vs your pistol.

It is not propaganda, when's the last time you heard of anything like this happening in Texas? Fort Hood, 2014

4 killed, 14 injured. On a military base ...

Gunman shot himself.

Fort Hood, 2009.

13 killed, 32 injured. On a military base ...

Gunman was injured and sentenced to death.

[Jmac]

This isn't like the movies. You fucking run when you hear shots being fired nearby

According to hchang, you pull out your pistol and snipe the guy, so ... :badpokerface:

[hchang]

Fort Hood, 2014

4 killed, 14 injured. On a military base ...

Gunman shot himself.

Fort Hood, 2009.

13 killed, 32 injured. On a military base ...

Gunman was injured and sentenced to death.

Both of those shootings were done by a serviceman.

[kr4l]

According to hchang, you pull out your pistol and snipe the guy, so ... :badpokerface:

I can't even do this in a video game let alone in real life. And I have a gun license

[hchang]

According to hchang, you pull out your pistol and snipe the guy, so ... :badpokerface:

Yes because all shootings are done across the street on the 32nd floor.

Not everything's black and white bud

[twitchyzero]

^ take cover in a wide-open parking lot?
or behind plastic chairs in a classroom?

It'll blow over and whittle away into the annals of history. The narrative will focus on "mental health" when in reality Americans should be having a frank/difficult discussion about gun rights. Its a like a broken record. Many more incidents like this will happen, because it would seem that these types of crimes are recurrent like clockwork.

i seriously forgot that the deadliest shooting occurred just last year
we've become so numb and accustomed to them

many Americans believe it's a divine right from god to bear arms...i don't believe we'll see new regulations in our lifetime if they can't even start a dialogue on the issue

[MarkyMark]

Yeah that's just what we need when there's a shooting going on, a bunch of other idiots shooting back in a crowded area. Let's not forget, not every gun owner is a trained professional that keeps calm and collected when shit goes down. While you might get the odd Jason Bourne in the crowd, the majority will be a bunch of Yosemite Sam's probably doing more harm than good.

[mr_chin]

Who in the right mind would shoot some looney tune causing havoc? A gun owner who cherishes their family's life, their own life and/or other people's lives.

And the police won't shoot you if you take out the piece of shit before they get there, or holster your weapon when they arrive.

With the right marksmanship and taking strategic cover you can easily stop the threat even if they're using an automatic vs your pistol.

It is not propaganda, when's the last time you heard of anything like this happening in Texas?

This reminds me of theorycrafting when I was playing WoW.

/golfclap

EDIT - For those who don't know what theorycrafting means. It's when you play out a scenario/event perfectly in your head, with every action/object occurring at the right time and place.

[hchang]

So Dan Bilzerian saw some girl get shot in the head, leaves and comes back with a rifle and helps defend and clear survivors out.

Mad respect

Instagram Playboy Dan Bilzerian Witnesses Las Vegas Shooting, Returns With A Gun (http://www.esquire.co.uk/culture/news/a17585/dan-bilzerian-las-vegas-shooting-snapchat-video/)

[RRxtar]

Hold on for a second here with your call of duty pull out your side arm and 360 no scope across the map ideas.

The distance from the Mandalay tower to the concert venue is a bit over 400 yards. The effective range of a handgun is under 100 yards, in a good scenario. I dont think many civilians will have ever fired a handgun under a live fire panic filled situation. 9/10 people would be lucky to even hit the side of the hotel at that distance, let alone identify where the shots are coming from, and put one on target.



Secondly, gun control doesnt need to mean no guns. But unfortunately thats how this argument works. Anyone on the gun control side of the argument want it to be no guns, so anyone on the other side is forced to argue for no gun control.

Canada has a pretty good set of gun control laws, aside from a few details. It is a process to get your licence, you must take a course to do so, and you must pass a series of background checks. And then you cant really have any fun (good for mass shootings) firearms legally anyway. America needs some gun control reform to make it more difficult to get one, and more restrictions on the ones you can get, but a gun ban should not happen.

There are more of us gun owners on here than you'd think too. I dont think many of us own them incase we need to overthrow the government. Alot of us hunt, and shoot as a hobby. Are we all 'bad' people who should have our guns taken away?

[westopher]

Who in the right mind would shoot some looney tune causing havoc? A gun owner who cherishes their family's life, their own life and/or other people's lives.

And the police won't shoot you if you take out the piece of shit before they get there, or holster your weapon when they arrive.

With the right marksmanship and taking strategic cover you can easily stop the threat even if they're using an automatic vs your pistol.

It is not propaganda, when's the last time you heard of anything like this happening in Texas?
HAHAHA you can't be serious! This isn't a Liam Neeson movie dude. The good guy doesn't do cartwheels through a bunch of shipping containers and kill the bad guy with a perfect headshot.

[hchang]

@RRtxar

Again as mentioned in a previous post not every situation has the same layout and environment.

Having a handgun in this Vegas situation would definetly have yielded no results.


-------------------------------------------

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10157393701071509&id=5550296508

Video taken from the concert

At 1:03 dude drinks his beer and gives the shooter middle finger hahahaha

[hchang]

HAHAHA you can't be serious! This isn't a Liam Neeson movie dude. The good guy doesn't do cartwheels through a bunch of shipping containers and kill the bad guy with a perfect headshot.

Before you try to be funny and ridicule please read through all posts to understand where I stand.

Have facts before you make a decision, oh wait you're probably incapable of that, you're a Liberal.

[westopher]

I read all your posts, and its genuinely hilarious. Especially your need to label me incapable of reasoning because of my interest in less people being killed by gun violence.
Compared to those in the same age groups in other wealthy countries, Americans aged 15-24 are 49 times more likely to be the victim of a gun-related murder. For those aged 25-34, that number is 32 times more likely, the research revealed.
But yeah, no problems here.

[GS8]

HAHAHA you can't be serious! This isn't a Liam Neeson movie dude. The good guy doesn't do cartwheels through a bunch of shipping containers and kill the bad guy with a perfect headshot.

Directed by Michael Mandalay Bay

Bad timing I know

:okay:

[hchang]

I read all your posts, and its genuinely hilarious. Especially your need to label me incapable of reasoning because of my interest in less people being killed by gun violence.

But yeah, no problems here.

Nice comment on the first and last of my posts.

And nice stat with no source. Did you find that on Vancity Buzz or whatever they call themselves nowadays?

[MarkyMark]

So Dan Bilzerian saw some girl get shot in the head, leaves and comes back with a rifle and helps defend and clear survivors out.

Mad respect

Instagram Playboy Dan Bilzerian Witnesses Las Vegas Shooting, Returns With A Gun (http://www.esquire.co.uk/culture/news/a17585/dan-bilzerian-las-vegas-shooting-snapchat-video/)


The guy gets off on shit like that. While it's brave to go back into danger when you don't have to, he's clearly been waiting his whole life for this moment to bust out his favorite gun with the chance to shoot a bad guy and play hero.

[westopher]

Nice comment on the first and last of my posts.

And nice stat with no source. Did you find that on Vancity Buzz or whatever they call themselves nowadays?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-u-s-gun-deaths-compare-to-other-countries/
Stats are from the WHO. Some liberal propaganda media source I think.

[Adorkami]

The distance from the Mandalay tower to the concert venue is a bit over 400 yards. The effective range of a handgun is under 100 yards, in a good scenario.

Do you think the NRA will push the agenda that the public should then have access to more powerful weaponry to combat possible snipers?

[twitchyzero]

The guy gets off on shit like that. While it's brave to go back into danger when you don't have to, he's clearly been waiting his whole life for this moment to bust out his favorite gun with the chance to shoot a bad guy and play hero.

and will be labeled as a coward if he does nothing

if I saw crowds in front of me being mowed down and had a spare M82 in the back of my 6x6 G-Wagen....i'd probably go get it and try to help too

how long did it take for first-responders to break into the perp's room? I still can't wrap my head around that 600 people have been hit.

[threezero]

Who in the right mind would shoot some looney tune causing havoc? A gun owner who cherishes their family's life, their own life and/or other people's lives.

And the police won't shoot you if you take out the piece of shit before they get there, or holster your weapon when they arrive.

With the right marksmanship and taking strategic cover you can easily stop the threat even if they're using an automatic vs your pistol.

90% of gun owner american, marksmanship = unloading their whole clip at an empty beer bottle. taking strategic cover= pressing a button on their Xbox controller while playing COD. With these lax regulation, chances are almost no one got any kind of formal weapon and tactical training. While you classic perp with a gun has gone thru some kind of military training and has logs hours in combat simulator. Who is more serious about gun ownership? the perp that made intricate plans on how to shoot up a school with multiple automotic rifle, or joe next door that brought a handgun to protect his family and take it out every 4th of july to waste ammo shooting at the sky.

Unless you have 100 of hours in combat training and have develop muscle memory you will not be able to make the quick split second decision like you have imagine in your head.

Since you were theorycrafting, let me theory craft a situation for you

hchang is out and about with his wife and little hchang. They stop at a food court to grab a bite to eat. They order and took their food to their table when hchang notice a perp half way across the food court is reaching for what looks like a high caliber gun in his long coat.

1. hchang's pops a boner I MUST DEFEND MY FAMILY!!!!!!!!!!!
2. He yells as loud as he can for people to get down
3. it was too loud, ppl that can hear him looked at him like he is crazy
4. its too late hchang must act now if he wants to have a chance to save his family.
5. hchang reach for his legally obtained conceal carry dessert eagle and took aim at the perp and fires a perfectly aimed bullet as the perp is still struggling with his rifle in his long coat.
6. what perfect aim, the bullet should hit the perp's head in less than 2 seconds
7. A teenage girl not far away from hchang's family suddenly gets up and ran across the food court. She didn't see what going on, she just want to ran to her friends all the way on the other side of the food court.
8. hchang's perfectly aim bullet hits the girl in the head instead. HEADSHOT!
9. hchang panics, this is not suppose to happen what do i do holster the gun and go help the girl or keep shooting at the perp.
10. Perp saw hchang and took aim at hchang with his rifle
11. well this just great, with great conviction hchang defends the life of his family (which he has not seen by the way since step 3 of the story) he returns fire but unfortunately nothing his the perp. its not so easy to shoot at a moving target in a crowd of scare running people.

12. on the other side the food court another armed citizen of USA is also eating with his family. He caught a part of the action HOLY FUCKING SHIT A PERP JUST SHOT A TEENAGE GIRL IN THE HEAD AND NOW HE IS EXCHANGING SHOTS WITH A GUY WITH A RIFLE
13. Kind hearts american citizen with a gun must stand his ground and protect his family. but who to shot at. hchang seems like the obvious choice i mean he just shot a girl in the head. the guy holding the assault rifle is taking cover like he has real military training. that must be a good guy. Lets help him
14. so hchang now has the perp shooting at him and another sheepdog citizen shooting at him.
15. hchang is in over his head, next thing he knows he get pop in the head by who knows who and he lies in a puddle of blood.

hchang, friendly sheepdog citizen and the perp cause more than 60 injuries and a dozen death by shrapnel and stray bullet. the perp was finally apprehended and killed by police. investigation pending on deaths in the food court and the potential of a second dead gunman. NRA release a statement praising the wonderful sheepdog citizen that act in a moments notice and took down a cold hearted perp. Recommends machine gun for everyone to Make America Safe Again!

Luckily hchang's wife did not masturbate to john Woo movies all day. hchang's wifey saw her husband reach for his gun around step 3 of the story. She duck down and quietly scoop little hchang up from his stroller and walked as fast as she can towards the exit and peace the fuck out. Thanks to her quick thinking she and little hchang survives to see another day.

well that was fun:fullofwin:

[MarkyMark]

and will be labeled as a coward if he does nothing

if I saw crowds in front of me being mowed down and had a spare M82 in the back of my 6x6 G-Wagen....i'd probably go get it and try to help too

Yeah cause when you're about to do something totally selfless you post about what you're doing on social media.

[welfare]

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2017/10/02/i-cannot-express-how-wrong-i-was-country-guitarist-changes-mind-on-gun-control-after-vegas/

Don’t be stupid the chance of any armed citizen stopping a mass gun Murder is ZERO.

The singer’s entourage were all packing, this being a country festival I bet a lot of people were packing too.

Let’s not discuss whether you will actually be able to take out someone with an automatic assault weapon with your concealed carry little hand gun.


Who in their right mind would even take out their firearm in a situation like this. It would be a great way to get your head pop off by the police.

The effectiveness of citizen sheepdog are made up propaganda by NRA and their supporters.

Apparently this was a gun free zone. So I'm not sure if security would be able to carry.
I don't think it can be completely brushed off as propaganda the fact that the vast majority of mass shootings in the US have occurred in gun free zones.
Which would only make sense. that someone committing a mass shooting would want minimal resistance.

I haven't seen any concrete evidence that increasing gun control alone has reduced violent crimes or homicides. There are many instances where loosening gun control has resulted in lower homicide rates and where increasing control has resulted in an increase.

I think it's understandable the knee jerk reaction of stricter gun laws. People want somewhere to lay blame. A simple fix. But the problem isn't that simple.
Even the data is complex. There are a plethora of variables to consider when looking at increase and decrease of gun deaths in the US and around the globe.
It makes compiling accurate arguments almost impossible.

[twitchyzero]

dont have twitter but quickly checked fb/ig and no such posts from him

[welfare]

Canada has a pretty good set of gun control laws, aside from a few details. It is a process to get your licence, you must take a course to do so, and you must pass a series of background checks. And then you cant really have any fun (good for mass shootings) firearms legally anyway. America needs some gun control reform to make it more difficult to get one, and more restrictions on the ones you can get, but a gun ban should not happen.

There are more of us gun owners on here than you'd think too. I dont think many of us own them incase we need to overthrow the government. Alot of us hunt, and shoot as a hobby. Are we all 'bad' people who should have our guns taken away?

So how would Canada's gun control have faired in this particular situation?
Keeping in mind that a semi automatic can be modded

[Zedbra]

First - condolences to all families affected by this tragedy.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2017/10/02/i-cannot-express-how-wrong-i-was-country-guitarist-changes-mind-on-gun-control-after-vegas/

Don’t be stupid the chance of any armed citizen stopping a mass gun Murder is ZERO.

The singer’s entourage were all packing, this being a country festival I bet a lot of people were packing too.

Let’s not discuss whether you will actually be able to take out someone with an automatic assault weapon with your concealed carry little hand gun.


Who in their right mind would even take out their firearm in a situation like this. It would be a great way to get your head pop off by the police.

The effectiveness of citizen sheepdog are made up propaganda by NRA and their supporters.


Well, the FBI has reports that concealed carry owners have stopped mass shootings. You know, facts you can verify before you spout opinion as truths. https://www.naturalnews.com/047378_murder_sprees_armed_citizens_FBI_report.htm l


People just need to stop loving to hate and justifying their prejudice as the morally social correct behaviour. There are fucktards and mental idiots everywhere - and no laws or bans will stop these people from creating havoc. Some Antifa branches are praising his behaviour - this culture is fucked.


This is the second crazy Democrat to go on a mass shooting in a year; Love trumps hate and all that MSM stuff you can high five yourself about. Those gun loving Republicans though, yeah, they are a real problem....


Info I came across on this Stephen Paddock idiot on FB:

The Mandalay Bay shooter, Stephen Craig Paddock, 64.. a white liberal Democrat hated President Trump and spoke openly about his political views. They are as follows...

Political Views per his Facebook page:
-Proud to Be A Democrat
-The Rachel Maddow Show​
-Thank You Obama
-Anti-Trump Army
-Progressive Day,
Organizing for Action (Soros)
-Not My President
-Fight Trump
-Boycott All Things Trump
-Impeach Trump

I am sharing, because the media won't.

We don't need gun control! We need democrats control.

[welfare]

First - condolences to all families affected by this tragedy.




Well, the FBI has reports that concealed carry owners have stopped mass shootings. You know, facts you can verify before you spout opinion as truths. https://www.naturalnews.com/047378_murder_sprees_armed_citizens_FBI_report.htm l


People just need to stop loving to hate and justifying their prejudice as the morally social correct behaviour. There are fucktards and mental idiots everywhere - and no laws or bans will stop these people from creating havoc. Some Antifa branches are praising his behaviour - this culture is fucked.


This is the second crazy Democrat to go on a mass shooting in a year; Love trumps hate and all that MSM stuff you can high five yourself about. Those gun loving Republicans though, yeah, they are a real problem....


Info I came across on this Stephen Paddock idiot on FB:

Makes a lot more sense than the "still no motive discovered" for someone who went to such great lengths to commit a very calculated, incredible number of deaths and injury.
I mean, you've gotta have a pretty damn strong motive to do something like that.
Seemed fishy that there was absolutely nothing said

[RRxtar]

So how would Canada's gun control have faired in this particular situation?
Keeping in mind that a semi automatic can be modded
in this case, maybe/probably nothing.

the same as gun control in canada hasn't stopped vancouver from being a map in GTA. how many shootings in vancouver in the last 10 years? how many were from non-restricted rifles and shot guns, and how many were from restricted or prohibited guns? Gun control doesn't stop criminals.

It may have prevented the shooter from easily acquiring automatic rifles. But it wouldn't prevent the shooter from illegally acquiring them.


Ive said it before and Ill say it again. If someone is going to literally mow down a crowd at a concert from a hotel room 32 stories up across the street well enough to harm over 600 people, him having access to guns isnt the problem. That is a person who has a fundamental disconnect from reality. There is something wrong with that person, not the guns he used. Guns don't make normal people do that.

[mr_chin]

Okay guys. hchang is saying in other scenarios, not specifically the Las Vegas one.

[westopher]

Was Las Vegas Shooter Stephen Craig Paddock An Anti-Trump Activist With Ties To Antifa? (http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/was-las-vegas-shooter-stephen-craig-paddock-an-anti-trump-activist-with-ties-to-antifa)
Here is the news source with the information zedbra shared. Do with the info as you please.

[Jmac]

Facebook and blogs, the most reliable sources.

[iwantaskyline]

First - condolences to all families affected by this tragedy.


Well, the FBI has reports that concealed carry owners have stopped mass shootings. You know, facts you can verify before you spout opinion as truths. https://www.naturalnews.com/047378_murder_sprees_armed_citizens_FBI_report.htm l


That's a quality website right there. Naturalnews.com LOL.

[- kT]

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2017/10/02/i-cannot-express-how-wrong-i-was-country-guitarist-changes-mind-on-gun-control-after-vegas/

Don’t be stupid the chance of any armed citizen stopping a mass gun Murder is ZERO.

The singer’s entourage were all packing, this being a country festival I bet a lot of people were packing too.

Let’s not discuss whether you will actually be able to take out someone with an automatic assault weapon with your concealed carry little hand gun.


Who in their right mind would even take out their firearm in a situation like this. It would be a great way to get your head pop off by the police.

The effectiveness of citizen sheepdog are made up propaganda by NRA and their supporters.

to further prove this

https://twitter.com/Calebkeeter/status/914872808110510080

from a guitarist in one of the bands performing at the festival

banning guns isn't the answer. one of my techs has a few rifles and regularly goes hunting on the weekends. tons of canadians, moreso tons of british columbians have guns. plus, americans would lose their minds. but there needs to be some control - until that happens, events like this will continue

[mr_chin]

in this case, maybe/probably nothing.

the same as gun control in canada hasn't stopped vancouver from being a map in GTA. how many shootings in vancouver in the last 10 years? how many were from non-restricted rifles and shot guns, and how many were from restricted or prohibited guns? Gun control doesn't stop criminals.

It may have prevented the shooter from easily acquiring automatic rifles. But it wouldn't prevent the shooter from illegally acquiring them.


Ive said it before and Ill say it again. If someone is going to literally mow down a crowd at a concert from a hotel room 32 stories up across the street well enough to harm over 600 people, him having access to guns isnt the problem. That is a person who has a fundamental disconnect from reality. There is something wrong with that person, not the guns he used. Guns don't make normal people do that.

But you can't gamble on the fact that everyone is "normal" and allow anybody to have access to firearms, legally. Not having regulations on access to firearms, is already a layer of safety being shed off of the public. Illegal access is out of the picture and cannot be used in any argument because it is out of our control. People need to focus on what can be control and start doing something about it.

It's like, if a kid likes to throw eggs at your house, not allowing them to have access to eggs or make it difficult from them to obtain eggs, would mean less chances and less times your house will get egged. Common sense, isn't it?

[hchang]

90% of gun owner american, marksmanship = unloading their whole clip at an empty beer bottle. taking strategic cover= pressing a button on their Xbox controller while playing COD. With these lax regulation, chances are almost no one got any kind of formal weapon and tactical training. While you classic perp with a gun has gone thru some kind of military training and has logs hours in combat simulator. Who is more serious about gun ownership? the perp that made intricate plans on how to shoot up a school with multiple automotic rifle, or joe next door that brought a handgun to protect his family and take it out every 4th of july to waste ammo shooting at the sky.

Unless you have 100 of hours in combat training and have develop muscle memory you will not be able to make the quick split second decision like you have imagine in your head.

Since you were theorycrafting, let me theory craft a situation for you

hchang is out and about with his wife and little hchang. They stop at a food court to grab a bite to eat. They order and took their food to their table when hchang notice a perp half way across the food court is reaching for what looks like a high caliber gun in his long coat.

1. hchang's pops a boner I MUST DEFEND MY FAMILY!!!!!!!!!!!
2. He yells as loud as he can for people to get down
3. it was too loud, ppl that can hear him looked at him like he is crazy
4. its too late hchang must act now if he wants to have a chance to save his family.
5. hchang reach for his legally obtained conceal carry dessert eagle and took aim at the perp and fires a perfectly aimed bullet as the perp is still struggling with his rifle in his long coat.
6. what perfect aim, the bullet should hit the perp's head in less than 2 seconds
7. A teenage girl not far away from hchang's family suddenly gets up and ran across the food court. She didn't see what going on, she just want to ran to her friends all the way on the other side of the food court.
8. hchang's perfectly aim bullet hits the girl in the head instead. HEADSHOT!
9. hchang panics, this is not suppose to happen what do i do holster the gun and go help the girl or keep shooting at the perp.
10. Perp saw hchang and took aim at hchang with his rifle
11. well this just great, with great conviction hchang defends the life of his family (which he has not seen by the way since step 3 of the story) he returns fire but unfortunately nothing his the perp. its not so easy to shoot at a moving target in a crowd of scare running people.

12. on the other side the food court another armed citizen of USA is also eating with his family. He caught a part of the action HOLY FUCKING SHIT A PERP JUST SHOT A TEENAGE GIRL IN THE HEAD AND NOW HE IS EXCHANGING SHOTS WITH A GUY WITH A RIFLE
13. Kind hearts american citizen with a gun must stand his ground and protect his family. but who to shot at. hchang seems like the obvious choice i mean he just shot a girl in the head. the guy holding the assault rifle is taking cover like he has real military training. that must be a good guy. Lets help him
14. so hchang now has the perp shooting at him and another sheepdog citizen shooting at him.
15. hchang is in over his head, next thing he knows he get pop in the head by who knows who and he lies in a puddle of blood.

hchang, friendly sheepdog citizen and the perp cause more than 60 injuries and a dozen death by shrapnel and stray bullet. the perp was finally apprehended and killed by police. investigation pending on deaths in the food court and the potential of a second dead gunman. NRA release a statement praising the wonderful sheepdog citizen that act in a moments notice and took down a cold hearted perp. Recommends machine gun for everyone to Make America Safe Again!

Luckily hchang's wife did not masturbate to john Woo movies all day. hchang's wifey saw her husband reach for his gun around step 3 of the story. She duck down and quietly scoop little hchang up from his stroller and walked as fast as she can towards the exit and peace the fuck out. Thanks to her quick thinking she and little hchang survives to see another day.

well that was fun:ful login:

TL;DR

I'm glad you had fun writing that. When's the last time you got laid?

Okay guys. hchang is saying in other scenarios, not specifically the Las Vegas one.

Thank you, finally somebody who has English Comprehension

---------
A 23 year old Maple Ridge man was among the dozens killed.

His girlfriend (who described him as the love of her life) will be flying back home alone now.

Vegas bartender held dudes hand as he died, then used his phone and contacted family members bearing the bad news. Acted as a liaison and waited 5 1/2 hours with him as emergency personnel worked through the crowd.

And no bartender is not hot, girlfriend is cute.

Pics are in link.

'I just couldn't leave him,' says Vegas bartender who held Canadian's hand as he died - Home | As It Happens | CBC Radio (http://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-monday-edition-1.4316671/i-just-couldn-t-leave-him-says-vegas-bartender-who-held-canadian-s-hand-as-he-died-1.4316986)

[westopher]

Here is my favourite excerpt from naturalnews.com

Five of the mass shooting incidents were ended by armed civilians who subdued the shooter
21 of the incidents ended with unarmed citizens subduing the shooter (a dicey proposition at best)
You are apparently 4x more likely to stop a mass shooting if you don't have a gun.:pokerface:

[iwantaskyline]

Stephen Paddock: What we know about the Las Vegas gunman - CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/02/us/las-vegas-attack-stephen-paddock-trnd/index.html)

Video interview with the shooter's brother. Says he has no apparent political ties. Can the alt-right idiots stop claiming he's a Trump hater. You morons are no better than ISIS trying to claim he's one of theirs. Please do not quote naturalnews.com as a source again, might as well use theonion.


The news doesn't square with Eric Paddock's image of his older brother, he told reporters Monday -- a poker-playing accountant with no apparent political or religious affiliation, "as far as I know," he hastened to add.

[Zedbra]

Here is my favourite excerpt from naturalnews.com


You are apparently 4x more likely to stop a mass shooting if you don't have a gun.:pokerface:

You are 300x more likely to be shot by someone who isn't a legal gun owner.

[Zedbra]

That's a quality website right there. Naturalnews.com LOL.

It's not your usual LOL CNN, but feel free to find the facts yourself.

https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/active-shooter-study-2000-2013-1.pdf/view

[westopher]

18% of gun crimes are committed by legal gun owners. A reasonable portion of the other 82% were legally purchased then lost or stolen. (sorry this stat is pittsburgh alone, but I imagine wouldn't vary too much from big city USA)
Consider what happens if say 20 years ago, there were stricter rules on gun sales.
Less guns are purchased.
Less guns get manufactured.
Less guns exist.
Less guns are available for criminal acts.
Less gun violence.
Too bad 20 years from now still no one will have bothered because proving a point was more important than peoples lives.

[iwantaskyline]

It's not your usual LOL CNN, but feel free to find the facts yourself.

https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/active-shooter-study-2000-2013-1.pdf/view

I'm hoping you're not trying to question the legitimacy of a video interview of the shooter's brother.

https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/fbi-releases-study-on-active-shooter-incidents

Doesn't even list how many incidents were stopped by armed civilians. EleGiggle

The just-released “A Study of Active Shooter Incidents in the United States Between 2000 and 2013” contains a full list of the 160 incidents used in study, including those that occurred at Virginia Tech, Sandy Hook Elementary School, the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum, Fort Hood, the Aurora (Colorado) Cinemark Century 16 movie theater, the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin, and the Washington Navy Yard, as well as numerous other tragic shootings. Here are some of the study’s findings:

Active shooter incidents are becoming more frequent—the first seven years of the study show an average of 6.4 incidents annually, while the last seven years show 16.4 incidents annually.
These incidents resulted in a total of 1,043 casualties (486 killed, 557 wounded—excluding the shooters).
All but six of the 160 incidents involved male shooters (and only two involved more than one shooter).
More than half of the incidents—90 shootings—ended on the shooter’s initiative (i.e., suicide, fleeing), while 21 incidents ended after unarmed citizens successfully restrained the shooter.
In 21 of the 45 incidents where law enforcement had to engage the shooter to end the threat, nine officers were killed and 28 were wounded.
The largest percentage of incidents—45.6 percent—took place in a commercial environment (73 incidents), followed by 24.3 percent that took place in an educational environment (39 incidents). The remaining incidents occurred at the other location types specified in the study—open spaces, military and other government properties, residential properties, houses of worship, and health care facilities.

[Zedbra]

I'm hoping you're not trying to question the legitimacy of a video interview of the shooter's brother.

https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/fbi-releases-study-on-active-shooter-incidents

Doesn't even list how many incidents were stopped by armed civilians. EleGiggle

Keep reading, I know it isn't a 140 character tweet, but the facts are there.

[welfare]

But you can't gamble on the fact that everyone is "normal" and allow anybody to have access to firearms, legally. Not having regulations on access to firearms, is already a layer of safety being shed off of the public. Illegal access is out of the picture and cannot be used in any argument because it is out of our control. People need to focus on what can be control and start doing something about it.

It's like, if a kid likes to throw eggs at your house, not allowing them to have access to eggs or make it difficult from them to obtain eggs, would mean less chances and less times your house will get egged. Common sense, isn't it?

Again, explain to me how Canada's gun control laws would have prevented this incident.

[welfare]

18% of gun crimes are committed by legal gun owners. A reasonable portion of the other 82% were legally purchased then lost or stolen. (sorry this stat is pittsburgh alone, but I imagine wouldn't vary too much from big city USA)
Consider what happens if say 20 years ago, there were stricter rules on gun sales.
Less guns are purchased.
Less guns get manufactured.
Less guns exist.
Less guns are available for criminal acts.
Less gun violence.
Too bad 20 years from now still no one will have bothered because proving a point was more important than peoples lives.

So you're basing a stat from one city on all of America?
Ok. Let's look at Chicago gun control laws and homicide statistics then

[iwantaskyline]

Keep reading, I know it isn't a 140 character tweet, but the facts are there.

This study is very supportive of your argument. A HUGE 3.1% of shootings in this study were stopped by armed civilians. I am truly astonished.

EleGiggle

[Mr.Money]

was bone chilling to hear those fucking gun shots off into the distance,made it worse to see people ducking on the ground,Not running off into a direction away from the gunshots......it's something i always hear in a war zone...in a distance rifles cracking off fully automatic...to hear that on north american soil is just insane.

does this mean hotels will now have x-ray machines to make people feel safer or go on as normal with just sniffer dogs for gun powder and more police swat members on stand-by?

[!LittleDragon]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/oct/02/america-mass-shootings-gun-violence

Looks like mass shootings in the US happen on average 9 out of every 10 days. They define mass shooting as 4 or more people shot, not including the shooter.

Looks like only the high hit count shootings make it to the news.

[Ch28]

Yeah that's just what we need when there's a shooting going on, a bunch of other idiots shooting back in a crowded area. Let's not forget, not every gun owner is a trained professional that keeps calm and collected when shit goes down. While you might get the odd Jason Bourne in the crowd, the majority will be a bunch of Yosemite Sam's probably doing more harm than good.

The thought of a bunch of people just blindly firing back at the Mandalay Bay hotel from the concert grounds is so fucking scary.

[threezero]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/oct/02/america-mass-shootings-gun-violence

Looks like mass shootings in the US happen on average 9 out of every 10 days. They define mass shooting as 4 or more people shot, not including the shooter.

Looks like only the high hit count shootings make it to the news.

Would like to hear response to this from pro gun anti regulation folks.

There is clearly something really wrong with gun culture in USA.

[Badhobz]

I'm so glad my parents decided to immigrate to Canada and not cray cray USA.

[welfare]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/oct/02/america-mass-shootings-gun-violence

Looks like mass shootings in the US happen on average 9 out of every 10 days. They define mass shooting as 4 or more people shot, not including the shooter.

Looks like only the high hit count shootings make it to the news.

Notice how they don't state whether those are registered guns used?
Statistics, pro or anti, almost always deliberately offer a very small part of the picture in order to push their agenda.

Murder rates in Texas had reduced by more than half since concealed carry became allowed in 1996.
See how easy it is to form arguments with selective information?
We don't include economy, prison population, number of executions, other laws passed, etc. Etc.
There are many many factors that drive/deter people to kill. Gun control is only one

[stewie]

The thought of a bunch of people just blindly firing back at the Mandalay Bay hotel from the concert grounds is so fucking scary.

lets not forget about the countless people already in their room standing in front of their windows to see what all the commotion is while 300 "heros" on the ground shoot at a target the size of a pin head. At that point all accuracy goes out the window and I wouldn't be surprised if you hit someone else.

When push comes to shove and you've a gun legally holstered at your side and someone in a crowd starts shooting in your direction you're going to run and take cover. If you decide to actually be proactive then think of the cross fire in that situation...


ps - I own several guns and enjoy them. I just think there's a large number of people who shouldn't be allowed to touch one.

[welfare]

I know a lot of people think gun control is the simple/obvious answer. But IMO, the argument is very open ended

[welfare]

The argument that a bystander could have successfully and safely fired back in this case is preposterous.
But the argument of whether or not this would have occurred in the first place had this not been a gun free zone is not as preposterous

[Mr.Money]

a person with a gun with no split second training...finger on the trigger?......yeah i wouldn't want to be a brown/black person getting mistaken identity on a trigger happy wannabe hero....No fucking way....even if it was a white person in a trench coat as style might've being shot and killed mistakenly....Fear Reaction time with a fire arm as defense needs training like police forces do.


reminds me of the boston attack when a brown person was running away for his life out the area...someone tried playing hero pinning him to the ground and he was innocent trying to get away as police later interviewed him being tackled to the ground.

[westopher]

So you're basing a stat from one city on all of America?
Ok. Let's look at Chicago gun control laws and homicide statistics then

That statistic is one place, but the argument works for everywhere. The earlier guns become harder to get, the less of them that would be manufactured.
You can choose not to understand that before a gun becomes an illegal gun, it enters the market as a legal one. That’s why the US has so many.
Someone buys a gun.
Someone loses gun/gun gets stolen
Gun becomes tool for crime.

[mr_chin]

Again, explain to me how Canada's gun control laws would have prevented this incident.

I did not say anything about preventing anything. That's the stupidest thing to ask for. It's like asking, "how is Canadian assault law gonna stop someone in China from assaulting someone". It's obvious you can't. If someone wants to do something, they are gonna do it. The thing is, without regulations, it's much much easier for that person to do so.

What I can tell you though, is that if there were regulations on getting firearms, things may have been different. The suspect may not have obtained the firearms on time of the event. And because of the time it takes for someone to obtain firearms, who knows what "right place and right time" could happen? Maybe if the gunman had decided to travel with the firearms any other day, he would have been pulled over or something.

Bottom line is, some regulation is better than none. Why do people need to access to AR freely anyways? One excuse I hear many times is, government tyranny. Right. The day government turn on their citizen, everybody would be dead by killing each other with these AR. So why don't you tell me why Americans should not have regulations or gun control laws?

[twitchyzero]

in this case, maybe/probably nothing.

the same as gun control in canada hasn't stopped vancouver from being a map in GTA. how many shootings in vancouver in the last 10 years? how many were from non-restricted rifles and shot guns, and how many were from restricted or prohibited guns? Gun control doesn't stop criminals.

It may have prevented the shooter from easily acquiring automatic rifles. But it wouldn't prevent the shooter from illegally acquiring them.


Ive said it before and Ill say it again. If someone is going to literally mow down a crowd at a concert from a hotel room 32 stories up across the street well enough to harm over 600 people, him having access to guns isnt the problem. That is a person who has a fundamental disconnect from reality. There is something wrong with that person, not the guns he used. Guns don't make normal people do that.

i know you're just answering to an open-ended question but it's quite a lopsided comparison

Vancouver's gun violence are generally targeted from gang feuds...not massacres intended to inflict maximum casualties.

and i don't think the local perps are packing a dozen weapons the size of lil' bow wow in their vehicles with a thousand rounds

those denying arms control is the solution, then what is?

it's hard to ignore that America has a dramatic gun fatality per capita compared to other developed countries and i don't buy that it's a mere coincidence

[westopher]

If you'd like to use chicago as being an example of where gun control hasn't helped, perhaps this will explain why.
Remember every one of these guns was purchased legally. Gun control isn't putting up a sign that says "no gunz pls and thanx"
The control needs to be at the original point of purchase, because after that, "responsible gun owners" in the United states have proven themselves incapable of being in true control of where they end up.
https://thumbs.mic.com/MzZjMDkxNzE4YyMvQXh2LVZnRjZwWXBGbTdEOXotZWppMFV6VD lrPS9maXQtaW4vNzYweDAvZmlsdGVyczpub191cHNjYWxlKCk6 cXVhbGl0eSg4MCk6bm9fdXBzY2FsZSgpOmZvcm1hdChqcGVnKS 9odHRwOi8vaW1hZ2VzLm1pYy5jb20vZzJvY2phc2N5amZzeDZo YWxwamd5aWdyb3psam1qY2lycnp1bGpxdDJodG92YXM1cm5qam g0dHl2NXI3Ymdnai5naWY.gif
You lose a gun? No more purchasing.
You have a gun stolen? Well I guess your safe wasn't safe.
You sell a gun? Well thats pretty fucking obvious.
These are all things that are happening to "responsible gun owners" all over the states.

[whitev70r]

Caleb Keeter, one of the musicians at the Las Vegas show:

Country star Caleb Keeter on guns stance: 'I cannot express how wrong I was' (https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/nation-now/2017/10/03/performer-las-vegas-shooting-we-had-legal-firearms-they-were-useless/726646001/)

I’ve been a proponent of the 2nd amendment my entire life.

Until the events of last night. I cannot express how wrong I was. We actually have members of our crew with CHL licenses and legal firearms on the bus.

They were useless.

We couldn’t touch them for fear police might think that we were part of the massacre and shoot us. A small group (or one man) laid waste to a city with dedicated, fearless police officers, desperately trying to help, because of access to an insane amount of fire power.

Enough is enough.

Writing my parents and the love of my life a goodbye last night and a living will because I felt like I wasn’t going to live through the night was enough for me to realize that this is completely and totally out of hand. These rounds were powerful enough that my crew guys just standing in a close proximity of a victim shot by this fucking coward received shrapnel wounds.

We need gun control RIGHT. NOW.

My biggest regret is that I stubbornly didn’t realize it until my brothers on the road and myself were threatened by it.

We are unbelievably fortunate not to be among the number of victims killed or seriously wounded by this maniac.

[Mr.Money]

if they did have stricter gun ownership laws,what would happen next if the mentally disturbed man didn't have one....Would he use his car/truck on the las vegas strip going 100 mph then into the country music festival?.

it's almost like these lunatics will find anyway to harm innocent people as an evil way,they even found explosives in his car.



IMO security will be stepped up in las vegas,i bet you even in large venues outdoor like this,Heat detection scopes & Night vision,navy/swat sniper members will be used as protection in counter-measure,I imagine they would be able to make the shot to a killer with rifle flashes coming out the broken window up above..


it scares me security can be stepped up for checking large bags that can contain rifles but there's also pistols out there capable of full auto,easily concealable.
las vegas police forces are most likely going to be hiring,power in numbers & groups as heightened security

[murd0c]

Normally I would say stories like this are complete BS but in the video's you can see a gun going off on the 4th floor they say it is.

http://yournewswire.com/hotel-guest-las-vegas-shooter/

[Infiniti]

Normally I would say stories like this are complete BS but in the video's you can see a gun going off on the 4th floor they say it is.

Hotel Guest Next Door To Las Vegas Shooter Saw 'Multiple Gunmen' (http://yournewswire.com/hotel-guest-las-vegas-shooter/)

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/YourNewsWire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fake_news_websites (Very last on the list)

[murd0c]

Oh I agree the website is BS, I'm mainly going off the video info unless they added that in there as well which is of course possible

[Great68]

If someone was firing bullets out the 4th floor window, you would think there would be evidence in terms of broken windows/glass on that floor which would be pretty hard to cover up.

[originalhypa]

http://yournewswire.com/hotel-guest-las-vegas-shooter/
The fact is the Las Vegas shooting was clearly a co-ordinated false flag attack, orchestrated by Paddock as well as at least one other as yet unidentified gunman operating from the fourth floor of the hotel. The mass shooting and scores of dead will be used by the elite to further push their nefarious agenda.

oh fuck off.....
:rolleyes:

Sometimes a crazy prick will do crazy things, because he's crazy.
The truth is that sometimes terrible things happen for reasons we cannot understand.

Timothy Macveigh killed 168 people and injured over 600 because he was angry at the ATF for going against the constitution. His own words
ATF, all you tyrannical people will swing in the wind one day for your treasonous actions against the Constitution of the United States. Remember the Nuremberg War Trials.

he also added,
"Because the truth is, I blew up the Murrah Building and isn't it kind of scary that one man could wreak this kind of hell?"

The messed up reality is that some people just want to see the world burn.

RIP to the victims.
:(

[CivicBlues]

Can we just put a 30 day thread ban on anyone that posts Fake News? I mean seriously, why are we putting up with this shit?

2nd offense - perma-ban from thread
3rd offense - perma-ban from RS

[!LittleDragon]

Notice how they don't state whether those are registered guns used?
Statistics, pro or anti, almost always deliberately offer a very small part of the picture in order to push their agenda.

Murder rates in Texas had reduced by more than half since concealed carry became allowed in 1996.
See how easy it is to form arguments with selective information?
We don't include economy, prison population, number of executions, other laws passed, etc. Etc.
There are many many factors that drive/deter people to kill. Gun control is only one


That wasn't the purpose of the article. It's just raw numbers put into a visualized format for most people to understand.

If the murder rate in Texas was halved and the stats say there were 89 mass shootings in the past 4.5 years then there were 178 mass shootings in Texas 4.5 years prior to being allowed to carry? What if there less guns overall? Fewer guns for the good guys and fewer guns for the bad guys? Granted these types of shootings will still occur as they do in Canada but would they still happen as often?

What's the stat in America of being shot with your own gun? I've read 3x as likely but I'd like more sources.

[yray]

Can we just put a 30 day thread ban on anyone that posts Fake News? I mean seriously, why are we putting up with this shit?

2nd offense - perma-ban from thread
3rd offense - perma-ban from RS

OR HOW ABOUT WE BRING BACK CIC/ARASH

[Bouncing Bettys]

Can we just put a 30 day thread ban on anyone that posts Fake News? I mean seriously, why are we putting up with this shit?

2nd offense - perma-ban from thread
3rd offense - perma-ban from RS

The problem with that is what constitutes fake news is still difficult to say. Often times "trusted" mainstream news media will put out a story that is entirely narrative driven, ignores facts, takes things out of context, etc either to push an agenda or to attract views/clicks. News media is in the business of fake news.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Can we just put a 30 day thread ban on anyone that posts Fake News? I mean seriously, why are we putting up with this shit?

2nd offense - perma-ban from thread
3rd offense - perma-ban from RS

As Trump would say "You are Fake News!"

[Infiniti]

The problem with that is what constitutes fake news is still difficult to say. Often times "trusted" mainstream news media will put out a story that is entirely narrative driven, ignores facts, takes things out of context, etc either to push an agenda or to attract views/clicks. News media is in the business of fake news.

I think what CivicBlues was getting at was that members should be a little more discerning in their choice of news sources. I agree with you in the sense that even mainstream news sources are guilty of posting "narrative driven" stories. However, if users stick to more credible sources there will be less likelihood of coming off as the next CharlesInCharge.

[welfare]

I think what CivicBlues was getting at was that members should be a little more discerning in their choice of news sources. I agree with you in the sense that even mainstream news sources are guilty of posting "narrative driven" stories. However, if users stick to more credible sources there will be less likelihood of coming off as the next CharlesInCharge.

or we can treat people like adults and allow them the responsibility of due dilligence.

[welfare]

oh fuck off.....
:rolleyes:

Sometimes a crazy prick will do crazy things, because he's crazy.
The truth is that sometimes terrible things happen for reasons we cannot understand.

Timothy Macveigh killed 168 people and injured over 600 because he was angry at the ATF for going against the constitution. His own words


he also added,


The messed up reality is that some people just want to see the world burn.

RIP to the victims.
:(

yea but mcveigh had a clear motive of retaliation to government agencies

[geeknerd]

Leaked photos.

http://i.imgs.fyi/img/1it6.png

[Manic!]

if they did have stricter gun ownership laws,what would happen next if the mentally disturbed man didn't have one....Would he use his car/truck on the las vegas strip going 100 mph then into the country music festival?.



They had barriers including shipping containers surrounding the venue. Also when has a person killed 58 people and injured 500 people with a car?

[Bouncing Bettys]

They had barriers including shipping containers surrounding the venue. Also when has a person killed 58 people and injured 500 people with a car?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_attack

Truck:
86 dead
434 injured

[Manic!]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_attack

Truck:
86 dead
434 injured

Still it's a lot easier to kill with a gun than a car.

[Berzerker]

Still it's a lot easier to kill with a gun than a car.

LOL Posts smart ass question... Gets proved completely wrong..... Answers with "Still".... lol

Typical argumentative person who can't admit when they are wrong.

Berz ouit.

[Manic!]

Leaked photos.

http://i.imgs.fyi/img/1it6.png

Pics look fake. Look at the dead body in the second to last pic. Also the purple pillar lighting does not look right.

[westopher]

Leaked photos.

http://i.imgs.fyi/img/1it6.png


It obviously said.
I’m a soldier of the left! I love Hilary Clinton! I’m a democrat!
But the fake news alt-left conspirators are hiding it to further their agenda where people allow sinful marriages, steal law abiding citizens guns and convert everyone to Islam.
- Alex jones (probably)

[Manic!]

LOL Posts smart ass question... Gets proved completely wrong..... Answers with "Still".... lol

Typical argumentative person who can't admit when they are wrong.

Berz ouit.

I admit it I was wrong.

[Harvey Specter]

Looks like this was very well planned and not some guy who decided to randomly get a room and start shooting at people. It's going to be interesting to see if he had any political or terror motive.


Las Vegas madman Stephen Paddock set up a camera inside his hotel room to capture his deadly shooting rampage — and other surveillance in the hallway to alert him as cops closed in on him, according to reports.

The shooter had at least one lens set up to tape himself as he unleashed hell on thousands of unsuspecting concertgoers several hundred yards below his ritzy casino suite, according to ABC News.

Apparently knowing cops would eventually catch up to him, he also wired cameras in the hallway outside his room so he could see when the heat was getting close, the Daily Mail reported.

Paddock killed 59 people and injured more than 500 in the worst mass shooting in US history.

[Harvey Specter]

Pics look fake. Look at the dead body in the second to last pic. Also the purple pillar lighting does not look right.

Don't think so. Few media outlets have shown the pictures now including a local news channel in LV.

[AzNightmare]

Oh I agree the website is BS, I'm mainly going off the video info unless they added that in there as well which is of course possible

Some people claiming it's just a strobe light and saw it also flickering in the background in some news reports.

[MarkyMark]

Obviously a car is capable of killing a lot of people, yet a gun is still the go to weapon of choice when someone gets the urge to go on a mass killing spree. Saying things like "they'll just find another way to kill people anyways" is a pathetic excuse to cling on to your shitty gun laws.

I'll take my chances getting run over rather than a bullet to the back of the head where I'm dead before I even know what happened.

[trollguy]

just because it's circulated doesnt mean it's real though (wrt to Harvey Specters comment)

in any case, here's something that popped up on my feed which mirrors your sentiments about this being well planned.

https://worldtruth.tv/mission-impossible-official-story-of-las-vegas-shooting-unravels-physical-impossibility-of-lone-gunman-senior-citizen-makes-narrative-ludicrous/ (yes tin foil hat website, interesting no less)

[Infiniti]

or we can treat people like adults and allow them the responsibility of due dilligence.

Your faith in the masses is commendable :)

[originalhypa]

OR HOW ABOUT WE BRING BACK CIC/ARASH

This post thanked by: CharlesInCharge


:lol




Too much bad news lately. At least this made me lol a little.

[Mancini]

INB4 the NRA goes quiet then makes a statement saying Americans need more guns for protection.

Sad but true. As though they could have defended themselves against him from his vantage point.

[Sid Vicious]

i'm not completely against or for gun control but i can list at least a dozen examples where people are mass murdered by a weapon other than a firearm

i think the real issue is why there are so many nutjobs in the states just waiting to kill people

if a complex issue such as violence could be easily solved by a simple solution like enacting stricter gun control laws, why arent cities with the most stringent gun control policies the least violent?

[!LittleDragon]

if a complex issue such as violence could be easily solved by a simple solution like enacting stricter gun control laws, why arent cities with the most stringent gun control policies the least violent?

Because you can't isolate guns from a city. There are no borders. Anyone can bring a gun into the city.

It will only work when the country as a whole is onboard. Canada can stop guns from coming into the country at the border. We have a lot fewer guns as a result and these types of shootings don't happen so often here.

It's too late for the US, the guns are already there and they're easy to get.

[snowball]

i'm not completely against or for gun control but i can list at least a dozen examples where people are mass murdered by a weapon other than a firearm


This is true but imagine those same people had an assault rifle and knew what they were doing?

I don't think anyone's going to be killing 60 people and wounding 500 with a machete...

[Harvey Specter]

just because it's circulated doesnt mean it's real though (wrt to Harvey Specters comment)

in any case, here's something that popped up on my feed which mirrors your sentiments about this being well planned.

https://worldtruth.tv/mission-impossible-official-story-of-las-vegas-shooting-unravels-physical-impossibility-of-lone-gunman-senior-citizen-makes-narrative-ludicrous/ (yes tin foil hat website, interesting no less)

I just can't take everything the media has reported about the shooter at face value. It's hard for me to believe this guy could have carried out such an attack by himself. He had enough arms to arm a small police force and he also had explosive material which was found in his car. He also had video cameras in his room and hallway. His target also makes no sense. It was just a run of the mill outdoor concert.


Btw, I'm not spewing conspiracy theories. I'm just baffled about this shooting.

[whitev70r]

Nobody is saying that stricter gun control will solve the entire problem of mass killings. Of course, we've seen other methods like hijacked planes, running over people with trucks, etc. BUT stricter gun control (esp automatic weapons) is part of the solution that will reduce the likelihood of something like this from happening.

American gun owners like to remind people of the 2nd Amendment (right to bear arms) but they often forget the preamble of their constitution.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.

59 people lost their unalienable right to life, and many more who were injured will lose their right to some form of liberty, and perhaps the pursuit of happiness.

[Hondaracer]

This is a good article, sorry if it’s already been posted:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/us-gun-violence-statistics-maps-charts

Call me a pessimest but it’s not a matter of “why is this happening” anymore to this is who we are. Unfortunately, this is the states.

It would take such a monumental shift to change the state of this country it would need nothing short of judge dread cruising the streets on a hover bike.

The stat in that article regarding gun related suicide vs homicide speaks volumes

The states is in a bad place right now and while trump may have caused some of it, it’s a relative drop in the bucket to the ongoing issues which have been festering for decades. Racial inequalities, poverty, mental illness, violent crime, is the way of life currently. It will almost certainly get far worse before it ever gets better.

[Manic!]

I now think those pics are real someone else sent me the same pics except there was one more pic and that showed the shooters face. He was laying on the Floor dead blood coming out of his head.

[Mr.Money]

I now think those pics are real someone else sent me the same pics except there was one more pic and that showed the shooters face. He was laying on the Floor dead blood coming out of his head.

https://www.facebook.com/brandon.l.clark/posts/1434310426618345

[donk.]

omg pics! share share share!
make someones attention whore account gain more followers over fake photos!!

[mr_chin]

More regulation is not rocket science, I don't get why some of you have a hard time understanding.

Throw more dodge balls into a court, more players will be hit at a higher rate.

[ImportPsycho]

World?s largest gun show will go on as planned in Las Vegas | New York Post (http://nypost.com/2017/10/03/worlds-largest-gun-show-will-go-on-as-planned-in-las-vegas/)

will there be any protest at the gun show? some how I doubt that.

[Bouncing Bettys]

Well just now I unintentionally saw a tweet from Dan Bilzerian showing a close up pic of the dead shooter.

[Harvey Specter]

...

Medal of Honor recipient Dakota Meyer has called out social media star Dan Bilzerian for “running away” in an Instagram video he took during the massacre that occurred in Las Vegas late Sunday night.

“This is why children shouldn’t classify heroes by their followers or their photos. @danbilzerian this is what kills me about people like you,” begins Meyer, a Marine Corps veteran and Sarah Palin’s son-in-law, in an Instagram post. “A woman just got shot in the head and you are running away filming that’s not what operators do. Please stop trying to be someone your not. People are dying, you’re running away not helping them and pretending it’s worthy of a video is disgusting.

Bilzerian, a professional poker player and former Navy SEAL trainee known as the “King of Instagram,” filmed a video of himself running away after one woman got shot in the head. Bilzerian told PEOPLE that he took a shooting victim to the hospital and returned to the scene once he had his own gun, but the situation was already under control by law enforcement.

“Holy f—, this girl just got shot in the f—ing head,” Bilzerian says while running away from gunfire in his Instagram video. “This is so f—ing crazy.”

Sunday night’s mass shooting in Las Vegas left at least 59 concertgoers dead and over 500 wounded outside the Mandalay Bay resort and casino after Stephen Paddock, 64, opened fire during country star Jason Aldean’s set at the Route 91 Harvest Festival.

[Zedbra]

More regulation is not rocket science, I don't get why some of you have a hard time understanding.

Throw more dodge balls into a court, more players will be hit at a higher rate.

Making drugs illegal sure worked well, so tell us how well it will work for guns.

[westopher]

Fuck man. This isn't about making guns illegal. Its about not being able to go pick up and own 17 guns from your local sporting goods store. Don't you think thats a bit more reasonable?
But no, don't try anything, just leave it as is because its going so fucking well.
DONT YOU THINK MAYBE THEY SHOULD JUST TRY ANYTHING AT ALL AT THIS POINT?
REGULATIONis not just making something illegal with no understanding or planning at all behind it.

[tegra7]

This hit me hard cause I love Vegas. I'm actually going to Vegas next month for the SEMA show.

[twitchyzero]

His target also makes no sense. It was just a run of the mill outdoor concert.


targeting a classroom/cinema doesn't make sense either, for the sane at least.
i think finding a definitive motive is moot

[Zedbra]

Fuck man. This isn't about making guns illegal. Its about not being able to go pick up and own 17 guns from your local sporting goods store. Don't you think thats a bit more reasonable?
But no, don't try anything, just leave it as is because its going so fucking well.
DONT YOU THINK MAYBE THEY SHOULD JUST TRY ANYTHING AT ALL AT THIS POINT?
REGULATIONis not just making something illegal with no understanding or planning at all behind it.

Well, they are regulated quite heavily. In fact, there have been over 300 million more guns bought in the US in the last 15 years and the murder rate has decreased by over 40%. So, regardless of numbers, regulations, and your huge red font, more laws and/or regulations mean squat to people that wish to break laws and those people that wish to harm others. And less guns does not mean less murder. More people means more fucked up people, though. Add red font where you see fit.

[Obsideon]

The thought crossed my mind that if someone was so passionate about anti gun laws would they go out of their mind to pull something like this off in hopes that the laws change? It would be pretty wild if that is what someone was willing to do to try and incite change. Highly unlikely but who knows in this crazy world.

The same thought crossed my mind as well...
What if some one pre-meditated a mass shooting and wrote/posted something like:

"I'm going on a shooting spree tonight because I casually picked up a slurpee, 2 bags of nachos and 5 semi-automatic rifles on my way to work, PRAISE THE 2ND AMENDMENT!"

[twitchyzero]

Well, they are regulated quite heavily. In fact, there have been over 300 million more guns bought in the US in the last 15 years and the murder rate has decreased by over 40%. So, regardless of numbers, regulations, and your huge red font, more laws and/or regulations mean squat to people that wish to break laws and those people that wish to harm others. And less guns does not mean less murder. More people means more fucked up people, though. Add red font where you see fit.

murder rate not interchangeable with massacre rate

i think there's little room for counter-argument that the latter rate has gone berzerk in the last few years

[welfare]

It would seem some people believe gun laws have remained static since the 1800's.
Two dimensional graphs are always completely explanatory

[Lomac]

I just can't take everything the media has reported about the shooter at face value. It's hard for me to believe this guy could have carried out such an attack by himself. He had enough arms to arm a small police force and he also had explosive material which was found in his car. He also had video cameras in his room and hallway. His target also makes no sense. It was just a run of the mill outdoor concert.


Btw, I'm not spewing conspiracy theories. I'm just baffled about this shooting.

Eh, not that unbelievable. It simply shows that it's premeditated and not a spur of the moment event. Clearly this person had a reason for it, though whether it was because he was an ISIS convert or believed that all country music lovers are evil Republicans or simply because he wanted to see the world burn, we may never know. Gun collecting is common and LV has shooting ranges, so it wouldn't bat an eye to see someone bring their weapons into a hotel. Explosives are easily made as well. The internet has seen to that, sadly.

Keep in mind Sandy Hook is believed to have been chosen at random and not targeted for any specific reason as well. Sometimes people just want to cause pain and suffering. They don't care who it is, so long as someone is feeling it.

As for this shooter, I'm keeping to tradition and not bothering to learn his name. I know it wont happen but I wish more news outlets and the like would simply refer to those people as a nameless shooter to stop them from gaining any sort of infamy they may have wanted. If it stops even one person from deciding to do a similar shooting event like this because they know their name wont be mentioned, it would be worth it.

[mr_chin]

Making drugs illegal sure worked well, so tell us how well it will work for guns.

We have laws on assault, rape, and theft. Are you saying that they aren't reducing these crimes to an extent?

How about we lessen assault laws. From now on, everybody can assault another as long as no weapon is in use. Imagine how many people will easily just throw fists at each other in a feud?

Nobody is saying to completely stop gun violence. It's reducing the chances and rate from of it happening.

Well, they are regulated quite heavily. In fact, there have been over 300 million more guns bought in the US in the last 15 years and the murder rate has decreased by over 40%. So, regardless of numbers, regulations, and your huge red font, more laws and/or regulations mean squat to people that wish to break laws and those people that wish to harm others. And less guns does not mean less murder. More people means more fucked up people, though. Add red font where you see fit.

What is "heavily" to you? To me, if a household can own 5+ AR, it's not regulated heavily. If a customer can walk into a store with a permit and purchase AR on the same day, it's not regulated heavily. If Wal-Mart can sell shotguns to a customer, it's not regulated heavily. Open carry, is not considered heavy regulation.

Less gun does mean less murder. If a murderer does not have easy access to firearms and executes his plan by household items, like knives and bats, the chances of someone being murdered is reduced, and possibly prevented. It's easier to defend against a knife than a gun, don't you agree? On top of that, if a murderer was to execute his plan with a knife, it's less likely he will kill multiple people in a short amount of time, had he used a gun, don't you agree? People would more likely defend and fight back if the weapon was a knife rather than a gun, don't you agree?

Numbers and statistics cannot prove or disprove that gun regulations will reduce the rate of and death by shootings. However, they do prove that there are just as many nut jobs during a time period compared to another. So the argument with these statistics versus gun control is out the window.

Again, it's common sense that, if there is less firearms being circulated in the country, the number of shootings will be reduced. Attacks/murders by knives and other weapons might increase, but the survival rate against these attacks would also be higher than guns.

If a shooting was executed using a handgun, the numbers of casualties will be far less than if one was carried out with an AR.

Obtaining firearms illegally is an invalid argument to gun regulations. We're talking about what CAN be controlled here.

[Zedbra]

^ well, the numbers from the FBI do not agree with your opinion. Open carry has been on a dramatic rise in several states and murder and mass shootings generally don't happen in those areas; furthermore most mass shootings happen specifically in areas that guns are "regulated" or banned. There are several reports and stats that do in fact show that areas with high legal gun ownership there are less gun deaths.

Facts suck when they don't agree with your emotion, eh. But the facts are there if you truly wish to educate yourself before going on diatribes about common sense - because the only thing you can say about common sense these days is that it isn't common at all.

[westopher]

So let’s pick a different stat.
Why, in Canada, where these weapons are much more difficult to get, and to stockpile enough of them to staff a swat team. Where not everyone is walking around with a gun in their pants.
Why is our gun violence so much less?
Is it just because we say please more?

[MarkyMark]

The facts can look however you want them to look when you pick and choose anything that supports your theory and disregard anything that doesn't.

You mentioned how the war on drugs hasn't worked, so what you're saying is if you can't eliminate every shooting with more gun regulations then there's no point in doing anything at all? You don't think that if it even helped lower shootings by 5% that it's worth doing to save lives?

[Sid Vicious]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/i-used-to-think-gun-control-was-the-answer-my-research-told-me-otherwise/2017/10/03/d33edca6-a851-11e7-92d1-58c702d2d975_story.html?utm_term=.a677978947b7


Leah Libresco is a statistician and former newswriter at FiveThirtyEight, a data journalism site. She is the author of “Arriving at Amen.”

Before I started researching gun deaths, gun-control policy used to frustrate me. I wished the National Rifle Association would stop blocking common-sense gun-control reforms such as banning assault weapons, restricting silencers, shrinking magazine sizes and all the other measures that could make guns less deadly.

Then, my colleagues and I at FiveThirtyEight spent three months analyzing all 33,000 lives ended by guns each year in the United States, and I wound up frustrated in a whole new way. We looked at what interventions might have saved those people, and the case for the policies I’d lobbied for crumbled when I examined the evidence. The best ideas left standing were narrowly tailored interventions to protect subtypes of potential victims, not broad attempts to limit the lethality of guns.

I researched the strictly tightened gun laws in Britain and Australia and concluded that they didn’t prove much about what America’s policy should be. Neither nation experienced drops in mass shootings or other gun related-crime that could be attributed to their buybacks and bans. Mass shootings were too rare in Australia for their absence after the buyback program to be clear evidence of progress. And in both Australia and Britain, the gun restrictions had an ambiguous effect on other gun-related crimes or deaths.

When I looked at the other oft-praised policies, I found out that no gun owner walks into the store to buy an “assault weapon.” It’s an invented classification that includes any semi-automatic that has two or more features, such as a bayonet mount, a rocket-propelled grenade-launcher mount, a folding stock or a pistol grip. But guns are modular, and any hobbyist can easily add these features at home, just as if they were snapping together Legos.

As for silencers — they deserve that name only in movies, where they reduce gunfire to a soft puick puick. In real life, silencers limit hearing damage for shooters but don’t make gunfire dangerously quiet. An AR-15 with a silencer is about as loud as a jackhammer. Magazine limits were a little more promising, but a practiced shooter could still change magazines so fast as to make the limit meaningless.

As my co-workers and I kept looking at the data, it seemed less and less clear that one broad gun-control restriction could make a big difference. Two-thirds of gun deaths in the United States every year are suicides. Almost no proposed restriction would make it meaningfully harder for people with guns on hand to use them. I couldn't even answer my most desperate question: If I had a friend who had guns in his home and a history of suicide attempts, was there anything I could do that would help?

However, the next-largest set of gun deaths — 1 in 5 — were young men aged 15 to 34, killed in homicides. These men were most likely to die at the hands of other young men, often related to gang loyalties or other street violence. And the last notable group of similar deaths was the 1,700 women murdered per year, usually as the result of domestic violence. Far more people were killed in these ways than in mass-shooting incidents, but few of the popularly floated policies were tailored to serve them.

By the time we published our project, I didn’t believe in many of the interventions I’d heard politicians tout. I was still anti-gun, at least from the point of view of most gun owners, and I don’t want a gun in my home, as I think the risk outweighs the benefits. But I can’t endorse policies whose only selling point is that gun owners hate them. Policies that often seem as if they were drafted by people who have encountered guns only as a figure in a briefing book or an image on the news.

Instead, I found the most hope in more narrowly tailored interventions. Potential suicide victims, women menaced by their abusive partners and kids swept up in street vendettas are all in danger from guns, but they each require different protections.

lder men, who make up the largest share of gun suicides, need better access to people who could care for them and get them help. Women endangered by specific men need to be prioritized by police, who can enforce restraining orders prohibiting these men from buying and owning guns. Younger men at risk of violence need to be identified before they take a life or lose theirs and to be connected to mentors who can help them de-escalate conflicts.

Even the most data-driven practices, such as New Orleans’ plan to identify gang members for intervention based on previous arrests and weapons seizures, wind up more personal than most policies floated. The young men at risk can be identified by an algorithm, but they have to be disarmed one by one, personally — not en masse as though they were all interchangeable. A reduction in gun deaths is most likely to come from finding smaller chances for victories and expanding those solutions as much as possible. We save lives by focusing on a range of tactics to protect the different kinds of potential victims and reforming potential killers, not from sweeping bans focused on the guns themselves.

[westopher]

I think everyone will agree with that article in the sense that people need to have a better support system to prevent the feeling of despair that can trigger these events.
What I can’t agree with is that there is no point in multiple approaches to the problem that include making weapons harder to obtain.

[mr_chin]

^ well, the numbers from the FBI do not agree with your opinion. Open carry has been on a dramatic rise in several states and murder and mass shootings generally don't happen in those areas; furthermore most mass shootings happen specifically in areas that guns are "regulated" or banned. There are several reports and stats that do in fact show that areas with high legal gun ownership there are less gun deaths.

Facts suck when they don't agree with your emotion, eh. But the facts are there if you truly wish to educate yourself before going on diatribes about common sense - because the only thing you can say about common sense these days is that it isn't common at all.

You truly are an idiot. Firearms can be smuggled from state to state very easily. Just because one state has higher regulations plus more mass shootings, doesn't mean that gun control laws isn't effective.

And do you have facts that in those "mass shootings" that you claim, are the guns purchased in the same state?

The stats are bias and so many factors can and can't be considered if gun control law is working or not. Are the firearm purchased legally? Are they registered by the shooter? If not, how were they obtained? Did the shooter steal it? Were they purchased in the same state the shooting. In states where open carry is allowed, a child can steal a gun from their parents easily. Whereas, in states where firearms must be concealed at all times, the likelihood of it being stolen is lower. I don't think I have explain simple 1+1 mathematics to you.

You constantly keep defending why gun control law won't help. Why don't you tell us why lighter or no gun control will help, or is better?

[trollguy]

I just can't take everything the media has reported about the shooter at face value. It's hard for me to believe this guy could have carried out such an attack by himself. He had enough arms to arm a small police force and he also had explosive material which was found in his car. He also had video cameras in his room and hallway. His target also makes no sense. It was just a run of the mill outdoor concert.


Btw, I'm not spewing conspiracy theories. I'm just baffled about this shooting.

Oh, dont get me wrong. never thought that. i'm baffled as well. just happened that i was surfing and that link came up just before i read your comment. :)

[bcrdukes]

So let’s pick a different stat.
Why, in Canada, where these weapons are much more difficult to get, and to stockpile enough of them to staff a swat team. Where not everyone is walking around with a gun in their pants.
Why is our gun violence so much less?
Is it just because we say please more?

Sorry, but we say sorry even if we're right.

Sorry.

[Hondaracer]

This fixation on AR's is misguided imo..

Just cause its a "black gun" or AR doesnt mean anything persay, all these high capacity mags can be fit into most guns, just because its made out of metal and looks "scary" now everyone hops on dem AR's..

1 AR or 5 AR's doesnt really make a difference either, the amount you can own as a legal gun owner is irrelevent. 1 $3000 AR can shoot THOUSANDS of rounds without jamming or needing a cleaning. You have a pile of high capacity magazines and all you need is 1 gun.

There are enough scary AR's in the states that regardless of laws to enforce their ownership, somone like this guy would be able to get his hands on more than enough of what he needs to carry out this attack whether he goes through the legal means or not.

Heavy enforcement on legal purchases isnt going to stop somone who is willing to rain bullets down onto a crowd.

The argument of doing nothing as opposed to doing SOMTHING is obviously a cut and dry one, but the effectiveness of any sort of new laws outside of destroying large amounts of fire arms isnt going to do shit.

[MarkyMark]

Yeah well you have to start somewhere. Even if it takes 100 years to get where you want to be it doesn't mean you should just call it a lost cause.

We could say climate change is too far gone now so why bother doing anything, just keep pumping more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere and enjoy the ride till the Earth burns.

[!LittleDragon]

^ well, the numbers from the FBI do not agree with your opinion. Open carry has been on a dramatic rise in several states and murder and mass shootings generally don't happen in those areas; furthermore most mass shootings happen specifically in areas that guns are "regulated" or banned. There are several reports and stats that do in fact show that areas with high legal gun ownership there are less gun deaths.

Facts suck when they don't agree with your emotion, eh. But the facts are there if you truly wish to educate yourself before going on diatribes about common sense - because the only thing you can say about common sense these days is that it isn't common at all.

154 homicides in Canada with a gun in 2010.

If what you're saying is true then that number can be dramatically reduced if Canadians had the same rate of gun ownership as the US and we were all allowed to open carry.

Or could it be so low because there are a lot less guns and they're hard to get?

[iwantaskyline]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/Total_deaths_in_US_mass_shootings.png

Isn't it interesting how low those numbers are during that ten year ban?

[Hondaracer]

154 homicides in Canada with a gun in 2010.

If what you're saying is true then that number can be dramatically reduced if Canadians had the same rate of gun ownership as the US and we were all allowed to open carry.

Or could it be so low because there are a lot less guns and they're hard to get?

"hard to get"

all of us in the shooting thread are ordering the same gun used in the sandy hook shootings to our door in Canada.. what is hard to get about that?

It's the volume of guns and people that is the difference.

[iwantaskyline]

"hard to get"

all of us in the shooting thread are ordering the same gun used in the sandy hook shootings to our door in Canada.. what is hard to get about that?

It's the volume of guns and people that is the difference.

The volume of guns is due to how easy the guns are to obtain - if you think otherwise you're an idiot.

Getting a license for a firearm in Canada is much harder compared to America, our gun laws are not even comparable.

[MarkyMark]

"hard to get"

all of us in the shooting thread are ordering the same gun used in the sandy hook shootings to our door in Canada.. what is hard to get about that?

It's the volume of guns and people that is the difference.

You didn't just click buy on Amazon and have it show up to your door I assume? I don't have any kind of gun license, can I buy a gun online? Can I walk into a store and buy one?

People who have to take steps to aquire a license for a firearm generally seem to be responsible people. I'm pretty sure even my best friends wouldn't just give me their gun for a day if I asked them nicely because I'm not licensed.

[!LittleDragon]

"hard to get"

all of us in the shooting thread are ordering the same gun used in the sandy hook shootings to our door in Canada.. what is hard to get about that?


For starters, having to pass a federal safety course and obtain a license from the federal government.

[Hondaracer]

Have you gotten a firearms liscence in Canada?

Do you know what’s involved? I’d hardly call it “hard” at all. It’s 10 hours over a weekend and you can buy any AR you want, as much ammo as you want etc.

The only difference is how readily available high capacity magazines are. While restricted firearms are just that, restricted, that only means you can only legally transport from your home to a range. It’s not the law stopping someone from opening fire in a mall or concert etc.

[MarkyMark]

For starters, having to pass a federal safety course and obtain a license from the federal government.

Which I'm sure isn't "hard" to do, but it at least makes buying a gun more difficult than buying a Snickers bar.

[!LittleDragon]

Have you gotten a firearms liscence in Canada?

Do you know what’s involved? I’d hardly call it “hard” at all. It’s 10 hours over a weekend and you can buy any AR you want, as much ammo as you want etc.

The only difference is how readily available high capacity magazines are. While restricted firearms are just that, restricted, that only means you can only legally transport from your home to a range. It’s not the law stopping someone from opening fire in a mall or concert etc.

Hard or not, it's still another piece of red tape to go through.

[Hondaracer]

you cant just go buy guns in the states either..

In Canada, in order to buy guns that can take 15/25/50/100 round magazines easily attainable in the states, it takes 1 day over a weekend, usually under 7 hours. If you have a clean background, there will be zero issues.

If you want to buy restricted weapons, you need to take 1 additional day of training.

So you guys who are saying it's so simple to buy guns in the states, it's easier than ONE day of training with under 8 hours of total guidance? while i dont know the in's and outs of the american licensing system, i highly doubt its that much "easier" than Canadas.

[originalhypa]

Do you know what’s involved? I’d hardly call it “hard” at all. It’s 10 hours over a weekend and you can buy any AR you want, as much ammo as you want etc.

I remember about 5-6 years ago, the Canadian gun lobby was pushing for more Canadians to get their licenses. Just like in the US, there are lots of Canadians who enjoy owning and shooting guns whether for hunting or sport shooting.

It's still not a cake walk though. I had no issues with getting my license, but I know people who were denied. I know one guy who had his reference mention that "he can get a little crazy when he drinks, but he doesn't drink anymore".

Boom, denied.

So there are quite a few checks and balances in place. That said, the more time I spend in the online Canadian gun forums, the less faith I have in gun owners. The most vocal of the gunnies are small in numbers, but they make us all look bad with what they're saying. :okay:

[MarkyMark]

you cant just go buy guns in the states either..

In Canada, in order to buy guns that can take 15/25/50/100 round magazines easily attainable in the states, it takes 1 day over a weekend, usually under 7 hours. If you have a clean background, there will be zero issues.

If you want to buy restricted weapons, you need to take 1 additional day of training.

So you guys who are saying it's so simple to buy guns in the states, it's easier than ONE day of training with under 8 hours of total guidance? while i dont know the in's and outs of the american licensing system, i highly doubt its that much "easier" than Canadas.

8 hours vs 8 minutes. In a lot of places in America you don't need a license, just a phone call where they run a background check. Even better, if you buy at a gun show from an unlicensed seller you don't even need to get a background check, you can just buy the fucking gun.

So, do you think Canada should adopt these rules, since you seem to make it sound like the licensing process up here is a waste of time. You would be fine with anyone just getting to walk into a store with no training whatsoever and buy a firearm?

[Badhobz]

Less guns please. Us Chinese Canadians needs to learn how to use 4 way stops first.

[Hondaracer]

if the US implemented the exact same system of licensing and restrictions Canada has in every single state, these shootings would still happen at the same regularity.

[mr_chin]

you cant just go buy guns in the states either..

In Canada, in order to buy guns that can take 15/25/50/100 round magazines easily attainable in the states, it takes 1 day over a weekend, usually under 7 hours. If you have a clean background, there will be zero issues.

If you want to buy restricted weapons, you need to take 1 additional day of training.

So you guys who are saying it's so simple to buy guns in the states, it's easier than ONE day of training with under 8 hours of total guidance? while i dont know the in's and outs of the american licensing system, i highly doubt its that much "easier" than Canadas.

In many states, you can just walk into a gun store and if you're over the legal age, you can purchase firearms.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_by_state

Look at how many states doesn't require permit, registrations, and background checks. That is insane. No regulations in just these three categories is already out of hand.

For Canadians to get licensed and possess their first firearm, there is a legislation requirement of 28 days wait period, not including days required for approval. This can take up to 45 days in total.

Canada also have stronger regulations in terms of gun classifications. I don't want to explain all of it.

Please do research before posting false and vague information.

Bottom line is, why do you people think that without strict gun laws is better than non-strict gun laws? What benefits does the latter offer? Why are layers of security to purchase guns frowned upon, according to you guys?

[MarkyMark]

if the US implemented the exact same system of licensing and restrictions Canada has in every single state, these shootings would still happen at the same regularity.

So you would feel just as safe if we just abolished our gun licensing rules and adopted the US system. You don't think that would change a single thing in the frequency of shootings whatsoever?

[mr_chin]

if the US implemented the exact same system of licensing and restrictions Canada has in every single state, these shootings would still happen at the same regularity.

You don't know that. And based on your bias hypothesis, do you not attempt to try to implement more gun regulations?

That's like going into a hockey match, telling your team, "we're not gonna win". Do you just give up and not try?

Don't even bother responding to Hondaracer. This kid has no idea wtf he's talking about. Go educate yourself on Canadian gun law before posting.

[westopher]

if the US implemented the exact same system of licensing and restrictions Canada has in every single state, these shootings would still happen at the same regularity.

You say that with a hilarious confidence, and I have no idea why you could possibly have that.
There is a possibility you would be right, but you honestly don’t have the slightest clue.

[MarkyMark]

The problem is there's no quick fix, gun control would take generations to really notice the full effect in America. In the meantime, any shooting that occurs after gun control would be immediately met with Republicans saying "see! see! it makes no difference, shootings still occur!!"

Basically unless you can stop every shooting in America the day after gun control comes into effect it would be considered a failure to gun lovers, and the laws would probably get changed back to the wild west shortly after.

[pastarocket]

if the US implemented the exact same system of licensing and restrictions Canada has in every single state, these shootings would still happen at the same regularity.


This hypothesis will never ever be tested in the US with gun law reforms anyways.

Kids and teachers got shot and killed by the psycho at Sandy Hook Elementary school a few years ago. :tears:

What happened after that shooting? Absolutely nothing.

The assault weapons ban has not been been renewed since the ban ended in 2004 in the U.S.

If the spilling of blood from children isn't enough to make US politicians have a serious discussion about gun law reform in the US., nothing will change the status quo.

[MarkyMark]

This hypothesis will never ever be tested in the US with gun law reforms anyways.

Kids and teachers got shot and killed by the psycho at Sandy Hook Elementary school a few years ago. :tears:

What happened after that shooting? Absolutely nothing.

The assault weapons ban has not been been renewed since the ban ended in 2004 in the U.S.

If the spilling of blood from children isn't enough to have US politicians have a serious discussion about gun law reform in the US., nothing will change the status quo.

The only way would be if rich people could somehow profit from gun control.

[pastarocket]

The only way would be if rich people could somehow profit from gun control.


I'm sure that there are quite a few wealthy Americans making plenty of money from guns either as retailers or manufacturers.


Retailers like Walmart might be making a 'killing" in selling firearms. :troll:

Excuse the pun.

[Hondaracer]

In many states, you can just walk into a gun store and if you're over the legal age, you can purchase firearms.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_by_state

Look at how many states doesn't require permit, registrations, and background checks. That is insane. No regulations in just these three categories is already out of hand.

For Canadians to get licensed and possess their first firearm, there is a legislation requirement of 28 days wait period, not including days required for approval. This can take up to 45 days in total.

Canada also have stronger regulations in terms of gun classifications. I don't want to explain all of it.

Please do research before posting false and vague information.

Bottom line is, why do you people think that without strict gun laws is better than non-strict gun laws? What benefits does the latter offer? Why are layers of security to purchase guns frowned upon, according to you guys?

My opinion is based upon the amount of guns, ammunition, and high capacity magazines already in circulation in the states.

Your waiting periods are somewhat incorrect as the turn around time to buy restricted guns or have them transferred into your name does require a grace period, however, buying a gun off a private individual, Craigslist, etc requires no waiting period and really no other proof of competency other than showing the seller your PAL, (which in some cases does not happen at all)

It’s obvious that loopholes where people can purchase firearms without any sort of previous training or testing should be required, and buying guns from shows etc with little to no checking has to be closed.

However, a lot of these shootings happen with individuals who either purchased these firearms completely legally, or stole them from legal owners.

Again, someone who is willing to bring dozens of firearms into a hotel room, bust out a window, and rain automatic fire down into a crowd isn’t going to be concerned with waiting periods or licensing. They will either gather their equipment illegally, or they will get everything completely legal, take the time to plan out their attack, and execute it. None of these major mass shootings happen just on a whim where they purchased a gun and started shooting the next day. Planning has taken place prior to all these incidents.

I’m also not arguing against doing anything, somthing obviously has to be done. I’m arguing against the effectiveness of any law the congress could possible push through that would have a legimate effect on the current state of America.

Personally I don’t give a fuck what happens, I didnt know any of the people killed, I don’t feel any sort of fake e-compassion for them. Wrong place at the wrong time in this fucked up world we live in. Too bad, carry on.

[westopher]

There’s nothing wrong with caring about what happens to people you don’t know, because you can be sure as shit, when it continues to happen, it will eventually affect you.
My wife knew one of the Canadians killed from when she was young. It’s not something that’s going to destroy our lives by any stretch of the imagination, but if that isn’t proof enough to us that it could have been any of us, I don’t know what is.
If you can truly say you don’t care about what happened because you don’t know someone, I don’t even know what to say. That’s pathetic.
Empathy is something that should be shown. It could have been a punk rock show in Vancouver.
It could have been a rock show in France.
It could be a pop show in England.

[CivicBlues]

The only way would be if rich people could somehow profit from gun control.

or maybe if they become victims of it?

It's strange how all these attacks at concerts. Manchester, Vegas the celebrity and their crews all get out unscathed.

But then again a Congresswoman was shot in the head and nothing was done. :ahwow:

[Hondaracer]

There’s nothing wrong with caring about what happens to people you don’t know, because you can be sure as shit, when it continues to happen, it will eventually affect you.
My wife knew one of the Canadians killed from when she was young. It’s not something that’s going to destroy our lives by any stretch of the imagination, but if that isn’t proof enough to us that it could have been any of us, I don’t know what is.
If you can truly say you don’t care about what happened because you don’t know someone, I don’t even know what to say. That’s pathetic.
Empathy is something that should be shown. It could have been a punk rock show in Vancouver.
It could have been a rock show in France.
It could be a pop show in England.

When i see it happen, i think fuck.. what a world.. terrible situation, underlying problems with society, shouldnt of happened.

But i'm far from one to put a "pray for Vegas" tag on my facebook page, donate money, etc.

Fake empathy for social aspects is far worse than being indifferent to the situation imo

[westopher]

You don’t have to do that pretentious bullshit like a Vegas flag on your profile and post thoughts and prayers to just fucking care.
You can also do all that dumb shit and actually care. Just because someone wants to be a part of it (I sure never have) doesn’t mean they are faking it.
Some people like to play the victim, and some actually do care.
And LOL at donating money being “fake empathy”

[iwantaskyline]

You don’t have to do that pretentious bullshit like a Vegas flag on your profile and post thoughts and prayers to just fucking care.
You can also do all that dumb shit and actually care. Just because someone wants to be a part of it (I sure never have) doesn’t mean they are faking it.
Some people like to play the victim, and some actually do care.
And LOL at donating money being “fake empathy”

I like how he wrote e-compassion in his post but all his posts are just low IQ e-toughness fake BS.

[Harvey Specter]

http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/59d54db2351ccf0b078b647a-2374/rts1f5k2.jpg

[Hondaracer]

http://sites.psu.edu/siowfa15/wp-content/uploads/sites/29639/2015/09/Yawning.jpg

If i was having this conversation in person id be saying the same thing, im not being E-tough or thinking i have some sort of anonymity in my opinion.

[!LittleDragon]

Won't lie, I made a few quick bucks off American Outdoor Brands as I often do after something like this.

[MSREE]

I'm pretty curious what protocol the US use for people with mental illness. Obviously the people who shoot up public places are fucked up in the head. I would like to see restrictions that require psychological profiles/intense assessments before even being able to touch a gun. Possibly could help lower instances like this. Nearly 1 in 5 Americans suffer from mental illness a year and about 50% of that goes untreated/undocumented. For example, Elliot Rodger, that kid could have spoken for 5 seconds and immediately anyone would have known that little shit shouldn't even be allowed in a store that sold guns.

Of course, I'm a bit of a conspiracy theorist in the sense that the government knows all this and already know what they can do about it... but don't do it because let's face it, it's population control. Of all the experts and highly paid officials that the government employs, what makes us think that they haven't had these exact conversations a long time ago? The planet is literally giving us signs of the end, and it can't tolerate a growing population for very much longer.

[iwantaskyline]

100% you wouldn't have the balls to say this word for word to a stranger or co-worker in real life. That's why I'm calling it your fake e-toughness. Trying to act all tough online, wow so cool! EleGiggle


Personally I don’t give a fuck what happens, I didnt know any of the people killed, I don’t feel any sort of fake e-compassion for them. Wrong place at the wrong time in this fucked up world we live in. Too bad, carry on.

[Hondaracer]

lol perhaps i wouldn't be as blatant with my opinions, but i would however hold true that things wont change and laws will be relatively ineffective in invoking change.

If i was in a convo with friends/family/strangers i'd have no problem saying any of that, coming off like an emotionless asshole to people who dont really know me but i have to work with on a daily basis wouldnt be very tactful however.

I hate to sound like Manic, but do you care about the people in Yemen, the arabs fleeing Burma, gays being beaten to death in pakistan?

Those situations are killing hundreds, thousands, millions of people on a daily, weekly, monthly, basis, not just 59 people in an act perpetrated by a "one off" psychopath

it's one thing to say you care, it's another to actually give two shits about somthing 5 minutes after you say you do.

[iwantaskyline]

I'm pretty curious what protocol the US use for people with mental illness. Obviously the people who shoot up public places are fucked up in the head. I would like to see restrictions that require psychological profiles/intense assessments before even being able to touch a gun. Possibly could help lower instances like this. Nearly 1 in 5 Americans suffer from mental illness a year and about 50% of that goes untreated/undocumented. For example, Elliot Rodger, that kid could have spoken for 5 seconds and immediately anyone would have known that little shit shouldn't even be allowed in a store that sold guns.

Of course, I'm a bit of a conspiracy theorist in the sense that the government knows all this and already know what they can do about it... but don't do it because let's face it, it's population control. Of all the experts and highly paid officials that the government employs, what makes us think that they haven't had these exact conversations a long time ago? The planet is literally giving us signs of the end, and it can't tolerate a growing population for very much longer.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221

President Donald Trump quietly signed a bill into law Tuesday rolling back an Obama-era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase a gun.

The rule, which was finalized in December, added people receiving Social Security checks for mental illnesses and people deemed unfit to handle their own financial affairs to the national background check database.

[mr_chin]

My opinion is based upon the amount of guns, ammunition, and high capacity magazines already in circulation in the states.

Your waiting periods are somewhat incorrect as the turn around time to buy restricted guns or have them transferred into your name does require a grace period, however, buying a gun off a private individual, Craigslist, etc requires no waiting period and really no other proof of competency other than showing the seller your PAL, (which in some cases does not happen at all)

It’s obvious that loopholes where people can purchase firearms without any sort of previous training or testing should be required, and buying guns from shows etc with little to no checking has to be closed.

However, a lot of these shootings happen with individuals who either purchased these firearms completely legally, or stole them from legal owners.

Again, someone who is willing to bring dozens of firearms into a hotel room, bust out a window, and rain automatic fire down into a crowd isn’t going to be concerned with waiting periods or licensing. They will either gather their equipment illegally, or they will get everything completely legal, take the time to plan out their attack, and execute it. None of these major mass shootings happen just on a whim where they purchased a gun and started shooting the next day. Planning has taken place prior to all these incidents.

I’m also not arguing against doing anything, somthing obviously has to be done. I’m arguing against the effectiveness of any law the congress could possible push through that would have a legimate effect on the current state of America.

Personally I don’t give a fuck what happens, I didnt know any of the people killed, I don’t feel any sort of fake e-compassion for them. Wrong place at the wrong time in this fucked up world we live in. Too bad, carry on.

I mean, the information are there on the internet, yet you're blabbing bullshit outta your ass. Are you just so stubborn that you just can't admit that you're wrong? Lol.

1. Safety training: To be eligible to receive a PAL, all applicants must successfully complete the Canadian Firearms Safety Course[23] (CFSC) for a non-restricted licence, and the Canadian Restricted Firearms Safety Course[24] (CRFSC) for a restricted licence; the non-restricted class is a prerequisite to the restricted licence. Each province/territory's chief firearms officer publishes information on the locations and availability of these courses.[25]

2. Applying for a licence: Currently only one type of licence is available to new applicants, the possession-acquisition licence (PAL). People can request a PAL by filling out Form CAFC 921.[26]

3. Security screening: Background checks and reference interviews are performed. All applicants are screened, and a mandatory 28-day waiting period is imposed on first-time applicants, but final approval time may be longer.[27]

And then you go to talk about illegally buying firearms off Craigslist? Lol. Without a license, you're not legally allow to possess a firearm.

Without background check, a sex offender, a person charged of violence of any kind, thieves, etc. can just walk into a store and purchase a firearm. Don't tell me you think this is completely okay. And shootings where the firearm was stolen, don't you think these could have been prevented had there been a regulation that firearms must be concealed when stored?

This is what you're simply saying, "If they really wanted to, we cannot stop them, so why even bother trying to bring in any regulations and laws".

That is the most idiotic and closed minded thinking ever. Yes, there are way too many firearms being circulated in America at the moment that it's hard to make a change. But change starts somewhere and the sooner you start, the sooner you will see improvement.

I can think of ZERO reasons why there should be no regulations version a handful why there should be.

It's one thing not to care, and another to spill complete bullshit to make you sound like the "listen to me, I am right" guy.

[MSREE]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221

Pretty sad for that to really work to make somewhat of a difference, US would have to make mental illness assessments mandatory/free and roll out huge mental awareness campaigns. Not sure how medical works in the US, but people won't look for help when it's hard for them to acquire financially or they don't have knowledge readily available. For them to be able to do that, there would have to be an influx of doctors/psych nurses who would have the time, space and funding to do this. They'd need to have highly trained professionals doing the assessments and signing off because real psychopaths can have a deadly high IQ and would probably know how to manipulate the system. Ideally, a tier system where you would have to have more assessments to acquire bigger/more dangerous weapons. Also, a public registry that would be closely monitored by the FBI.

I can already see this costing the gov't billions of dollars....... and why would they do it if the population is controlling itself by them doing the absolute bare minimum?

[iwantaskyline]

lol perhaps i wouldn't be as blatant with my opinions, but i would however hold true that things wont change and laws will be relatively ineffective in invoking change.

If i was in a convo with friends/family/strangers i'd have no problem saying any of that, coming off like an emotionless asshole to people who dont really know me but i have to work with on a daily basis wouldnt be very tactful however.

I hate to sound like Manic, but do you care about the people in Yemen, the arabs fleeing Burma, gays being beaten to death in pakistan?

Those situations are killing hundreds, thousands, millions of people on a daily, weekly, monthly, basis, not just 59 people in an act perpetrated by a "one off" psychopath

it's one thing to say you care, it's another to actually give two shits about somthing 5 minutes after you say you do.

I think they're all equally shitty. I thought about the Vegas event a bit more since it's so close and I've been to Vegas many times, unlike Yemen for example. Does the Vegas event or the casualties of the Yemen war affect my daily life? No.

You don't need to act upon every feeling empathy you have. Just because these events don't affect my daily life after I hear about them doesn't mean my moment of compassion was "fake". What kind of stupid logic is that.

Even if I felt zero compassion or empathy I wouldn't feel the need to go into a thread discussing the event and voice how much "I do not care".

[Hondaracer]

the 28 day waiting period is to get your licence, not to buy a gun.

Buying non-restricted firearms is done with a handshake, there is no paper trail as to purchasing firearms privately. The seller of the firearm has an obligation to check the purchasers PAL upon selling a firearm, however, my experiences in the past, that does not always happen.

never said i'm the right guy, im only expressing my opinion on the matter.

[underscore]

154 homicides in Canada with a gun in 2010.

If what you're saying is true then that number can be dramatically reduced if Canadians had the same rate of gun ownership as the US and we were all allowed to open carry.

Or could it be so low because there are a lot less guns and they're hard to get?

If I remember right we have more guns per capita, however the ratio of hand guns to long guns is very different. Canada also only allows an extremely small number of people to carry, and when not in use guns must actually be stored safely. There are also more restrictions on the guns themselves (although strangely there are some guns that you can buy here but not in the US).

Then there's the actual licensing. It's relatively straightforward, but if you say the wrong thing during the course or on any of your paperwork, or one of your references does, you won't get approved. If you do get approved it takes a while to get your actual license and be able to buy things. After all that, if you do or say something stupid you can lose your license and all your firearms.

However, a lot of these shootings happen with individuals who either purchased these firearms completely legally, or stole them from legal owners.

Could that not in part be due to how cheaply and easily they can be acquired legally, or how easily they can be stolen because of the lack of safe storage?

Again, someone who is willing to bring dozens of firearms into a hotel room, bust out a window, and rain automatic fire down into a crowd isn’t going to be concerned with waiting periods or licensing. They will either gather their equipment illegally, or they will get everything completely legal, take the time to plan out their attack, and execute it. None of these major mass shootings happen just on a whim where they purchased a gun and started shooting the next day. Planning has taken place prior to all these incidents.

True, but the harder it is to do the more likely they are to make a mistake or fail to acquire what they're looking for. I'm sure someone with the right connections could get a gun like that in Canada, but it will be very difficult and very expensive. Not to mention probably very dangerous considering the kinds of people you'd be getting something like that from.

[Zedbra]

You truly are an idiot. Firearms can be smuggled from state to state very easily. Just because one state has higher regulations plus more mass shootings, doesn't mean that gun control laws isn't effective.

And do you have facts that in those "mass shootings" that you claim, are the guns purchased in the same state?

The stats are bias and so many factors can and can't be considered if gun control law is working or not. Are the firearm purchased legally? Are they registered by the shooter? If not, how were they obtained? Did the shooter steal it? Were they purchased in the same state the shooting. In states where open carry is allowed, a child can steal a gun from their parents easily. Whereas, in states where firearms must be concealed at all times, the likelihood of it being stolen is lower. I don't think I have explain simple 1+1 mathematics to you.

You constantly keep defending why gun control law won't help. Why don't you tell us why lighter or no gun control will help, or is better?

And here is how these tragedies happen - in the face of facts not meeting your opinion, it is now okay to berate/hurt others immediately and continue to argue belief as truth. Ignorance is bliss. You used words, the other freak used a firearm - but the issue is a social issue through and through illustrated over and over again here and throughout North America; encouraged by MSM and social media.

[Digitalis]

Yeah gotta ban the guns not the mood altering prescription drugs they are on.

[RRxtar]

Can you guys start a different thread to debate gun laws? One that you can keep posting the same arguements one way or another in whenever something like this happens.


I come home from work and check these threads as they are like an aggregate of the news of the day, and by about page 6 they always turn into pages and pages of people force sharing their more correct opinions at each other.

[bobbinka]

This is how the arguments go:

A: If you reduce the access to guns, there'd be less shootings
B: People who want to kill will find ways to obtain the guns
A: But those people will have a harder time getting a gun, even if it's just a little bit
B: Yea, but they'll find a way, cause that's what they want to do
A: But it'll reduce shootings
B: But they'll find a way to do it
A: Fuck you
B: No, fuck you

-repeat-

[threezero]

Have you gotten a firearms liscence in Canada?

Do you know what’s involved? I’d hardly call it “hard” at all. It’s 10 hours over a weekend and you can buy any AR you want, as much ammo as you want etc.

The only difference is how readily available high capacity magazines are. While restricted firearms are just that, restricted, that only means you can only legally transport from your home to a range. It’s not the law stopping someone from opening fire in a mall or concert etc.

you are right, its not super hard. Yet all it took is this simple step to greatly reduce the amount of gun per capita in the countries, reduce our gun death rate.

You think this process is simple because you speak perfect english and is determined enough to go thru all this process. Having these simple hoop already discourage BIG portion of the public from even trying. As evidence by Canadian in this thread that thinks its difficult.

You are right, they don't try! And you are saying these testing doesn't deter gun ownership?

As oppose to walking in the Walmart showing a piece of ID, pass a criminal check, point at a gun and walk to the register.

You get a lot of people that have no business owning a gun, owning gun. Because they can and because its easy.

[A-Dev]

1 $3000 AR can shoot THOUSANDS of rounds without jamming or needing a cleaning. You have a pile of high capacity magazines and all you need is 1 gun.


*Trigger warning*

not to throw fuel on the conspiracy fire but...

This got me thinking as well, what did the shooter need with "23 guns" ? Most of the guns in the room look like similar AR's. If your goal is to get out as many rounds as possible why change out weapons and reset your firing position when you can just change out high capacity magazines.

I'm just very curious about the how's and why's.

[lowside67]

Can you guys start a different thread to debate gun laws? One that you can keep posting the same arguements one way or another in whenever something like this happens.

I come home from work and check these threads as they are like an aggregate of the news of the day, and by about page 6 they always turn into pages and pages of people force sharing their more correct opinions at each other.
Or perhaps you could just go to an actual site with the news? It's not like you need to be refreshing 50 sites to get the complete information... in this day and age every story is virtually identical since information moves so quickly.

-Mark

[Bouncing Bettys]

Am I the only one who was interested in the story itself and find this gun control debate boring? Its the same arguments every time and little changes.

[iwantaskyline]

*Trigger warning*

not to throw fuel on the conspiracy fire but...

This got me thinking as well, what did the shooter need with "23 guns" ? Most of the guns in the room look like similar AR's. If your goal is to get out as many rounds as possible why change out weapons and reset your firing position when you can just change out high capacity magazines.

I'm just very curious about the how's and why's.

Because guns overheat, and they heat up fast if you're trying to fire as many rounds as possible in a short time. They heat up to the point where you cannot hold it anymore.

[Hondaracer]

You ain’t holding any of the parts that heat up.

Barrels heat up and bend but not like it matters when you’re just raining bullets from a 30th floor. I’d say the guy was just nuts and brought as many guns as he could get to the hotel with him. The amount of weaponry he had seems to be a point of conspiracy in FB comments etc due to the question raised here.

[PeanutButter]

So what's the deal with the "girlfriend". She was in the Philipines, and then she got sent back to the US, or was that voluntary?

[welfare]

Less guns please. Us Chinese Canadians needs to learn how to use 4 way stops first.

BAHAHAHA!!
God don't get me started on yield signs.
*Sigh. Good lulz... Every death encompassed thread needs a few.

[- kT]

*Trigger warning*

not to throw fuel on the conspiracy fire but...

This got me thinking as well, what did the shooter need with "23 guns" ? Most of the guns in the room look like similar AR's. If your goal is to get out as many rounds as possible why change out weapons and reset your firing position when you can just change out high capacity magazines.

I'm just very curious about the how's and why's.

high capacity AR's overheat, jam, etc. you need a lot of military or gun experience to handle a single AR and fire constantly without issue. given that he had no military background, this would've been the most reliable way to ensure he didn't run into any hiccups, i'd assume. i've kind of got my tin foil hat on for this one too though, a couple things don't add up. but as Bouncing Betty mentioned, i'm mainly checking this thread for the content of the story. the gun control debate will go on, and rest assured nothing (if something does, it'll be small) will change.

i'm curious what an autopsy will yield, was reading a story from a vegas news source about the gunman having received a prescription for Valium a few months prior to the shooting. apparently valium is a popular drug for people who shoot, as it calms your nerves while shooting. apparently it's also got a jekyll and hyde effect on the user though. could also be something like Charles Whitman, where he shot and killed his mom + wife, then climbed up to a tower and shoots another 50 or so people, killing 17 - an autopsy concluded he had a brain tumor, which, while without 100% clarity, could have possibly contributed to his "sudden change of behaviour" between being a very normal person day to day, to killing family and random strangers.

further, whitman was also prescribed valium, a year before he carried out the shooting in 1966

So what's the deal with the "girlfriend". She was in the Philipines, and then she got sent back to the US, or was that voluntary?

she said through her lawyer it was voluntary, as a show of cooperation with the investigation, and will continue to cooperate. really don't think she's involved in this in any way. may possibly have gotten a hint, but her alibi seems pretty airtight

[iwantaskyline]

You ain’t holding any of the parts that heat up.

Barrels heat up and bend but not like it matters when you’re just raining bullets from a 30th floor. I’d say the guy was just nuts and brought as many guns as he could get to the hotel with him. The amount of weaponry he had seems to be a point of conspiracy in FB comments etc due to the question raised here.

LOL. Can you please stop talking out of your ass? You're seriously clueless.

Since you probably don't read much, I'll link you a video to improve your knowledge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kzfm4pYhIyY

[bomberR17]

Actually it's pretty easy to get a deregistered gun and for cheap too. Literally $300 for a scratched off serial number handgun. Obviously I won't delve into specifics here but let's just say there are unregulated lands not patrolled by police that will sell anything. That's how most gangs get their guns.

Plus, it's pretty easy to get a gun "legally". I just bought one online with 1000 rounds of ammo and shipped to me by Canada Post. When I bought my Remington 700, the guy didn't even check my PAL and he was a CBSA officer.

[welfare]

Man I'm really curious about what that note said. Apparently it wasn't a suicide note.
Republicans talking about outlawing bump stocks..

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Oh I agree the website is BS, I'm mainly going off the video info unless they added that in there as well which is of course possible

i actually saw that same video and immediately thought the same thing as you.

but...

FACT CHECK: Did a Second Gunman Shoot From the Fourth Floor of the Mandalay Bay Hotel? (http://www.snopes.com/second-gunman-shoot-fourth-floor-mandalay-bay/)

the video below showing 1 hour before the shooting shows the same "blinking" from that window.

so there goes that theory LOL.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

i wonder how many people he coulda killed if he had a home made silencer, and started to just shoot people one at a time, in different areas of the concert.

and only start to spray when the masses started to realise what was happening.

[Berzerker]

LOL. Can you please stop talking out of your ass? You're seriously clueless.

Since you probably don't read much, I'll link you a video to improve your knowledge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kzfm4pYhIyY


Interesting video. I would like to see a laser thermometer on various parts of the gun while doing this. Also those were low cap clips correct? With high cap mags I would guess it would get even hotter faster. I never actually knew how hot the guns get. Makes sense why he would have so many.

I also thought about silencer options. The old oil filter trick would have worked in this situation and allowed him a lot more time on the guns.
https://youtu.be/7t_pcWPdSDs


Berz out.

[originalhypa]

or maybe if they become victims of it?


I read an interesting article about this yesterday regarding the Democrats moving to ban bump stock devices.

Democrats Seek Ban on Devices That Boost Gun Rate of Fire

WASHINGTON — Days after a dozen modified rapid-fire guns were found in the Las Vegas gunman's hotel room, Democrats introduced a bill on Wednesday to ban such changes to weapons — and dared Republicans to ignore it.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein of California, the top Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee, said her legislation would bar the sale, manufacture and possession of so-called bump stocks and other devices — all currently legal — that drastically increase a firearm’s rate of fire.

"The only reason to modify a gun like this is to kill as many people as possible in as short of a time as possible," Feinstein said of the devices found in the hotel room of Stephen Paddock, the shooter in Sunday’s massacre at a country music concert — one that Feinstein said her daughter had planned to attend but skipped.

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/las-vegas-shooting/democrats-seek-ban-devices-boost-gun-rate-fire-n807456





http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/59d54db2351ccf0b078b647a-2374/rts1f5k2.jpg

I wouldn't be surprised to hear that there was a second shooter. I've shot with others in canyons before, so I know what echoes sound like. But I heard two distinct firing patterns in the videos. Sure, he could be dual wielding as he was firing into a veritable barrel of fish. But how likely is that, considering he was pretty damn far away.

#conspiracy


The old oil filter trick would have worked in this situation and allowed him a lot more time on the guns.

The oil filters aren't made to take the pressure and heat from multiple rounds. Honestly man, it would have been far deadlier if he had a suppressor. But suppressors are also not really meant for prolonged full auto fire. I really believe that he was going for reliability. The piece of shit wanted to kill as many as he could in the time he felt he had.

I also read that the only reason the police found him was because the smoke alarms were going off in his room due to all the flash smoke.

:okay:

[Berzerker]

The police were zeroing in on the noise. There is a video with all the police calls and radio chatter going around. You can hear a cop saying what floor he was on as he could hear him.

This also goes against the 4th floor shooter as they would have heard this as they were ascending the stairways. As for the echoes you have to understand the amount of buildings around there. Plus the bullets hitting. Sound waves get altered once they rebound. They also cancel each other out when they pass each other again. So an echo on a echo will affect the overall sound. If one had the software you could isolate each time the guns shot and cross reference them with the echo's.

Ballistic reports will also show if all the people killed came from guns in that room or if there were other guns in play. I doubt those reports will ever become public and then we have to believe them if they do release them.

Berz out.

[quasi]

I understand why people originally thought there was a shooter on the 4th when the video of the flashing lights appeared but I think it's quite obvious after the fact that it was a light of some sort, either reflection from outside or a strobe (possibility emergency light) inside.

The only way there was a 4th floor shooter is if he brought a scissor lift and glazing to match the glass he would have needed to shoot out (windows don't open) and then repaired it under the cover of darkness well the place was crawling with cops and nobody seeing them could this make any sense.

Conspiracy theorists always need to argue something just for the sake of making an argument.

[Manic!]

Las Vegas shooting: NRA urges new rules for gun 'bump-stocks' - BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41519815)