[Boostaholic]

TLDR: Richmond Chrysler Dodge Jeep in Richmond Automall is a stealership that will rip off customers who don't know about cars with unnecessary charges. Avoid at all cost!

So today my mother called me to catch up. She casually mentioned she got her dodge grand caravan serviced at the dealer at 30,000km and the bill came out to be $600. I was curious why it would cost so much so I told her to take a photo of the invoice and send it to me. To my surprise the dealer seem to have ripped her off with some unnecessary charges.

Other than charging $103 for conventional oil change which is over priced but acceptable. there was a $500 charge for "emission flush" and "clean throttle body housing" and "shop supplies". I referenced the factory manual and no where it says anything about needing emission flush and clean throttle body housing in the factory maintenance schedule. I've attached the invoice. I told my mom to not to go back to that dealership anymore. Tell your friends and family to avoid this dealership too.

https://imgur.com/WKo5N8N.jpg
https://imgur.com/GAkpmXc.jpg

[320icar]

Wtf is an "emissions flush"

[mb_]

It looks like the oil change is $103 with tire rotation included. Some dealers charge tire rotation and oil change separately which would make sense for $103.

Emissions flush sounds like it's a fuel injection flush which is way too early for 30k lol

[Spectre_Cdn]

Relevant:
https://youtu.be/jBpMe36GoW0

[Boostaholic]

I've sent the dealer an email complaining about this situation. Let's see if it gets to their manager make this right. Hopefully they can learn that even though they may be able to rip off people who knows nothing about cars like my mother, but their family and relatives may know about cars and expose them on their scams.

[aalex]

i would complain to bbb. i dont think your mom is first victim of the scam.

https://www.consumerprotectionbc.ca/consumers-alias/help-for-how-can-we-help/193-automotive/651-vehiclecar-repairs

[MarkyMark]

Did they call and ask her if she wanted these extra services or did they just do them?

[mos_skeeto]

My mom looks like one of those moms that can be taken advantage of at a car dealership (and people try). My way around it if I don't go with her is to have her decline every above and beyond charge they ask and write it down on a piece of paper so we can review it. I've saved her a lot over the years especially since she only puts like 5,000km on her car a year.

[coneZONE]

Wtf is an "emissions flush"

LMAO right? True i guess it could be a different name for a fuel injection service...
Sounds straight made up though lolol. Like what, clean the EVAP charcoal canister? Clean the EGR passageways? Hahaha
Maybe they ran the engine and then turned it off. Done! See, no more emissions coming out lololol


Also wtf is that $52 of shop supplies? All the necessary parts are already charged out, ie: filter, oil, "emission kit", t/b cleaner. It's not like they spent fifty bucks worth of gloves and shop rags to do the job (i forgot brake cleaner loool)

[AzNightmare]

Shop supplies is a bullshit charge.
Who even started this in the industry?

It's like a restaurant that charges extra fees after your meal for napkins...

[UnknownJinX]

For the most part, those dealer XXk km/mile service is bullshit.

Owner's Manual should have a legitimate schedule(usually towards the back) that should be followed, so just tell your mom to follow that.

My suggestion is that just tell your mom to know exactly what she wants to do with her car when it goes in, and turns down any upsell bullshit. If it goes to get its oil changed, that's the only thing that's going to be done.

Tire rotation at this time of the year may make sense if you just have one set of tires, but for people with dedicated summer and winter tires, it makes no sense.

I thought emission flush might be a typo for a transmission flush, but it's probably just me.

[Traum]

You know, I wish dealerships would at least have the decency to upsell drivers on maintenance items that are actually useful -- like replacing brake fluid, tranny / diff fluid, tire rotation, suspension (usually shocks?) inspection, etc. I dunno how many times I've seen cars that are supposedly dealership serviced, and yet they have dark brown brake fluids in the reservoir, transmissions that shift like shxt, front tires that are bald while the rear tires are still at 50% tread, and leaky shocks / saggy corner, etc. FailFish

[aeiou]

I've sent the dealer an email complaining about this situation. Let's see if it gets to their manager make this right. Hopefully they can learn that even though they may be able to rip off people who knows nothing about cars like my mother, but their family and relatives may know about cars and expose them on their scams.

i dont think your email will make any difference

[k3mps]

You know, I wish dealerships would at least have the decency to upsell drivers on maintenance items that are actually useful -- like replacing brake fluid, tranny / diff fluid, tire rotation, suspension (usually shocks?) inspection, etc. I dunno how many times I've seen cars that are supposedly dealership serviced, and yet they have dark brown brake fluids in the reservoir, transmissions that shift like shxt, front tires that are bald while the rear tires are still at 50% tread, and leaky shocks / saggy corner, etc. FailFish

You mean dealer serviced cars of owners who decline every recommendation and only do oil changes (usually free) and have their own "mechanic" they bring their cars to who don't actually end up doing any of the work that was recommended 2 services ago.

[Traum]

You mean dealer serviced cars of owners who decline every recommendation and only do oil changes (usually free) and have their own "mechanic" they bring their cars to who don't actually end up doing any of the work that was recommended 2 services ago.
Of course, sometimes / a lot of times that happens. My mechanic friends have repeatedly shown me some of the absurdity that have come through their shops, including cut / worn-down-to-stell-belts tires, (former) brake pads that have grounded down to the backing plate, bushings that are still held together only by the tiniest bit, etc. So I understand what you're saying.

At the same time in my personal experience, however, I've also had dealerships that never recommended doing a brake fluid change on my car; that they don't typically suggest transmission fluid changes because the manufacturer has indicated the transmission fluid is a "life time fill"
:badpokerface:

[smoothie.]

cleaning the throttle body of a 16...

FUCK THAT.

[MG1]

Justin Chiang, eh?

Name is mud..............

[Qmx323]

Wooo you know buddy made a killing on this one

[Mr.Money]

I often wonder why people get taken for a ride without asking any questions.

[SupraTTturbo2jz]

call them up, email them, and tell them you're gonna go to news networks. Companies HATE their issues getting to news and will prevent you from going there. I had an incident at superstore where the security guards were discriminating and rude towards my girl where they ended up calling me a liar to my face.

I told them to check security cameras, spoke to manager to have the issue resolved otherwise i'll contact CTV news. Head office called me a week later, fired the piece of shit guard and retracted the entire security contract.

[meme405]

Shop supplies is a valid charge, it covers the cost of consumable items needed for running the place, for example batteries for the techs flashlights, gloves, shop towels, specialty tooling that the dealer may need, etc.

It's usually a nominal percentage like 3% of your total labour charge.

So on a $100 oil change it's like a few bucks. Which is totally reasonable.

I don't know why in this instance it's like 10% of the total bill, that seems unreasonable.

[Harvey Specter]

I really hate taking my car to the dealer even if it's covered under warranty. It's like going to the dentist, got full insurance but always find something wrong that isn't covered just to make a few bucks.

[1BADMR2]

BS up sell for the emissions flush and throttle body cleaning on a 2016 vehicle with 35,xxxkms. The throttle body cleaning is basically spraying cleaner into the throttle body and a wipe. They don't physically remove the TB and service every part on it, IIRC the cleaner would come in the emission package and is done at the same time. I guess now its separated to bone the customer some more.

I use to clash with management about up selling "add on services" with vehicles under 100,000 kms. If you look in the owners manual of most car manufactures, they don't recommend these services until the 100,000kms mark or unless it's being used for heavy towing or dusty areas.

Shop supplies are a complete rip off at 10% of the bill. Like mem405 said, it is around the 3% mark. I use to lower the shop supplies to 2% of the bill because of the high shop rate.

[FerrariEnzo]

I had my car since 2011, Open Road Hyundai service department was pretty good. Always asked me if I wanted the extra service done. They dont push it. Everything is written on the service paperwork, saying they told me to get these done.

[6o4__boi]

they do the same to my wife...lol
what they don't know is she'll scrutinize it harder than I will and they'll feel the wrath if she notices something off

when i take my cars to the dealer, I'm pretty specific with what i want done. I'm open to conversations on suggested services sure but don't you do throw some bullshit my way.

OP i would contact the media if that stealership doesn't reply to your complaint...that's highway robbery that seems to have been going on a while, somebody gonna get a fired around there...

[aeiou]

personally i got rip off by burrad acura (located at terminal)
and richmond ok tire

[StanleyR]

Wtf is an "emissions flush"

Similar to a blinker fluid change or re-greasing muffler bearings.

:badpokerface:

[gilly]

those guys are also commission based. Hustled hard.

[mb_]

OP i would contact the media if that stealership doesn't reply to your complaint...that's highway robbery that seems to have been going on a while, somebody gonna get a fired around there...

Not trying to take the dealer's side but if they recommended it to her, explained to her and she said yes, OP and his mom don't have much leverage

[6o4__boi]

true...but to someone with little to no knowledge of cars, one can argue that she was manipulated into getting services she never needed

[Boostaholic]

Not trying to take the dealer's side but if they recommended it to her, explained to her and she said yes, OP and his mom don't have much leverage

So you mean it's ok for someone 'recommend' something you don't need, but make it sound like it's something you need, and convince you to pay for some BS services, then it's ok?

[UnknownJinX]

Not trying to take the dealer's side but if they recommended it to her, explained to her and she said yes, OP and his mom don't have much leverageI have to agree with this one.

You can't blame anyone if you didn't read the Owner's Manual(which, even if you don't have one, they are available as free PDFs from manufacturer's website). If you read it, you probably know most of the service upsell is BS.

I don't think anyone is trying to say the dealership's actions are justified or ethical, but I don't think those customers who got ripped off are completely innocent. A little reading and Google search go a long way.

[6o4__boi]

uh yeah...ok let's expect my 50 something mother to know the maintenance interval and car lingo of her 2017 Rav, and remember all that when someone who's job it is to know all of this is upselling the crap out of her and throwing her all sorts of information

y'all act like you've never been upsold before

She can barely connect the infotainment to her phone after reading the instructions

it's predatory behaviour from the dealership plain and simple

[mb_]

So you mean it's ok for someone 'recommend' something you don't need, but make it sound like it's something you need, and convince you to pay for some BS services, then it's ok?

That is definitely not what I mean. I'm not gonna say whether or not what the dealer said is ethical or unethical but ultimately, she makes the final call to go ahead or not with the "recommendations" which sounds like she authorized it after she was presented with the information. If the dealership did the additional work without approval then that's a different story.

[UnknownJinX]

uh yeah...ok let's expect my 50 something mother to know the maintenance interval and car lingo of her 2017 Rav, and remember all that when someone who's job it is to know all of this is upselling the crap out of her and throwing her all sorts of information

y'all act like you've never been upsold before

She can barely connect the infotainment to her phone after reading the instructions

it's predatory behaviour from the dealership plain and simple

There is an old Chinese saying that goes like this: don't have the heart to harm someone, and always have the heart to defend yourself. Not everyone is nice out there, I think anyone should know that much.

I don't think asking anyone to read a simple instruction book is too much, unless you are physically disabled to do so. If she can't figure out, maybe you should help her out a bit.

Again, not trying to justify the dealership's actions, and it's nice of you to share your experience, but in any case, you won't get that money back, just like with most frauds. Everyone knows frauds are bad, but wouldn't it be nice to not lose that money in the first place?

[6o4__boi]

i get it, but at the end of the day, some fuckery has happened here
dealership used its position and expertise to pinch a few hundred dollars off someone by muddling their judgement with fear and doubt

like i said, she can read it, but i wouldn't expect her to remember all of it when she's got a tech or front service person spewing car lingo, saying things like, well...if you don't do it now, it could break down later on and it'll be 10 times as much to fix!

[Boostaholic]

I have to agree with this one.

You can't blame anyone if you didn't read the Owner's Manual(which, even if you don't have one, they are available as free PDFs from manufacturer's website). If you read it, you probably know most of the service upsell is BS.

I don't think anyone is trying to say the dealership's actions are justified or ethical, but I don't think those customers who got ripped off are completely innocent. A little reading and Google search go a long way.

well for one my mother is almost 60 with poor english, she can barely get by speaking and you expect her to read a 700 page owners manual where the service interval full of jargons and technical terms?

Now if you went to the dentist and your dentist up-sold a bunch of BS services thats not only has no benefit to you, but also cost 5x the price of the service you need, do you blame yourself for not going to dentist school for 5 years to understand what services you need for your teeth?

[MarkyMark]

As much as she got screwed over on the price I'd be even more worried if they even did the work they said they did.

"Sure miss that throttle body is clean as a whistle now, lol."

Dealers are notorious for this, how many extra fees do they probably get away with when they sell a car to someone who is clueless? Next time she'll at least know better.

[UnknownJinX]

well for one my mother is almost 60 with poor english, she can barely get by speaking and you expect her to read a 700 page owners manual where the service interval full of jargons and technical terms?

Now if you went to the dentist and your dentist up-sold a bunch of BS services thats not only has no benefit to you, but also cost 5x the price of the service you need, do you blame yourself for not going to dentist school for 5 years to understand what services you need for your teeth?

Okay, so why don't you accompany her or explain it to her? There are ways around this.

I understand the frustration and agree that the dealerships should be accused of frauds for doing this kind of stuff, but like I said, you can't expect everyone out there to be nice. Not everyone has standards. I am just saying a bit of self-defense definitely helps.

As for your question, I would do some research and see what is needed before I shell out a significant amount of money. There is nothing weird about thinking over a couple hundred bucks before you spend it. And you don't need to have the knowledge to open up skulls to not get ripped off at dentists, and you don't need to have enough knowledge to rebuild an engine to not get ripped off at car dealerships. Google is your friend.

As much as she got screwed over on the price I'd be even more worried if they even did the work they said they did.

"Sure miss that throttle body is clean as a whistle now, lol."

Dealers are notorious for this, how many extra fees do they probably get away with when they sell a car to someone who is clueless? Next time she'll at least know better.

That's a good point.

Wasn't there another CBC marketplace video showing a quick lube place ripping people off this way?

[!SG]

ask to see the service schedule. if it was due at that milage or age, and the advisor reconmended it, customer signed for it, hard to argue. mom should have said no, or called you on the spot to be explained to.

[!SG]

here is my analysis. based on the pictures you provided.

delivery date feb 12 2016. milage is 35,722km. so the car is about 20months old or 35,000km interval

5w20 oil should be synthetic if its at this weight

dont know what an emissions flush is, but im guessing its a EFI? id say this is a tad early, but depends on the manufactuers reconmended service interval

did a quick search and found this.

https://www.dodge.com/download/pdf/manuals/2016-Grand_Caravan-OM-2nd.pdf assuming this may be a US owners manual. page 676 is the maintenance schedule.

another quick search found this.
Recommended Maintenance Schedule | Cooksville Dodge Chrysler Jeep Ram (http://www.cooksvilledodgechrysler.com/recommended-maintenance-schedule/)

the 2016 caravan falls inbetween the 18 month/30k service and the 21 month / 35k service. depending on what was done or postponed on a previous visit.

18 Months or 30,000 Kms

Premium Lube, Oil & Filter
Check All Fluids
Multi-Point Inspection
Tire Rotation & Balance 4 Wheel
Fuel Induction Service
Engine Tune-up*

21 Months or 35,000 Kms

Premium Lube, Oil & Filter
Check All Fluids
Multi-Point Inspection

so this little bit of investigation shows the recommended service.
- the oil change and tire rotation, multi point inspection are grouped into a fall special. its in the recommended interval above
- the emissions flush looks like the fuel induction service. its in the recommended interval above.

the only upsell i see is the throttle service. having owned a caravan, i can tell you i did my own throttle servicing every oil change due to how horribly it gummed up.

so... what is the problem here? your pre-conception of what was needed for the car, or what was recommended from the manufacturer?


https://imgur.com/WKo5N8N.jpg
https://imgur.com/GAkpmXc.jpg

[underscore]

well for one my mother is almost 60 with poor english, she can barely get by speaking and you expect her to read a 700 page owners manual where the service interval full of jargons and technical terms?

Why would you read all 700 pages when there is a table of contents that directs you right to the 3-4 pages that cover the service intervals? You must have had a hell of a time in school reading an entire textbook just to see one example.

Even then, is it really that hard to ask the people at the dealership to show you that what they are suggesting is part of the maintenance schedule? At the end of the day this is your multi-thousand dollar asset (a depreciating one, but still), so maybe put in more than the bare minimum amount of effort.

[Jmac]

Business Practices and Consumer Protection Act (http://www.bclaws.ca/EPLibraries/bclaws_new/document/ID/freeside/04002_02#division_d2e561)

[J____]

this is why I never get my car serviced at dealerships. Bunch of dishonest crooks. Only reputable private shops get my money when it comes to maintenance.

[meme405]

Business Practices and Consumer Protection Act (http://www.bclaws.ca/EPLibraries/bclaws_new/document/ID/freeside/04002_02#division_d2e561)

This is what I was going to post.

For those saying that it's his moms fault for signing for it, doesn't absolve the dealership of predatory behaviour and misrepresentation, which is actually against the law in this country.

So yes, upselling needlessly and pushing people to buy a service they don't need is illegal regardless of if the person signs for it, or agrees to it.

Now the issue here is proving that the car didn't need it, it's very easy for a dealer to say "upon inspection we noticed excess build up, which is why we recommended this service even though it's not typically needed". Could be complete bullshit, but it's a slippery situation to try to prove that someone performed a service you truly didn't need and they knew you didn't need it.

I'll post face this, with the fact that I don't know if the service was required, haven't looked it up, but it looks like SG above has, and I'd believe him if he says it's within the realm.

[Traum]

5w20 oil should be synthetic if its at this weight

5W20 is available as conventional, synthetic blend, and synthetic oil. It is 0W20 that is only available as synthetic.

I am not familiar with Dodge at all, so I have no idea whether a 2016 Caravan specifies conventional or synthetic oil at all.

[1BADMR2]

An emissions flush is basically/almost the same thing as induction flush which are cleaners that is run through intake manifold via vacuum hose to clean carbon or dirt just like people running Seafoam in their vehicle except it is made by B&G, etc. The other part of the flush is then poured into the gas tank to clean the fuel injector tips. The proper way is to run the fuel injector cleaner by tapping into the fuel line before the fuel rail.

I would be interested to know is who recommended the add on services, the service adviser (SA) when the vehicle was brought in or was it the tech?

-If it was the SA, how does he know it actually needs the add ons? How does he know if it was possibly done somewhere else at an earlier mileage?

-If it was the tech, did he recommend it by mileage/time or did he physically look at the TB and see it was gummed up and dirty? The problem is most techs are lazy and love the gravy train so most just recommend add ons by mileage.

When I was a SA (10 years), I dealt with many techs and there were only a handful I trusted when calling the customer about work to be done on their vehicle(s). I would go to the shop to look at the parts so I knew first hand what the deal was.


TL;DR
Selling at the counter (SA) based on mileage is not right, so that means the tech has to look at the parts and see if it needs the extra work but most techs are lazy.

[Jmac]

This is what I was going to post.

For those saying that it's his moms fault for signing for it, doesn't absolve the dealership of predatory behaviour and misrepresentation, which is actually against the law in this country.

So yes, upselling needlessly and pushing people to buy a service they don't need is illegal regardless of if the person signs for it, or agrees to it.

Now the issue here is proving that the car didn't need it, it's very easy for a dealer to say "upon inspection we noticed excess build up, which is why we recommended this service even though it's not typically needed". Could be complete bullshit, but it's a slippery situation to try to prove that someone performed a service you truly didn't need and they knew you didn't need it.

I'll post face this, with the fact that I don't know if the service was required, haven't looked it up, but it looks like SG above has, and I'd believe him if he says it's within the realm.
Burden off proof is on the seller/service provider if taken to court.

[AzNightmare]

To avoid this mess in the future, you should either go with your mom next time, or at the very least, have her give you a call to go over some of the service before she tells the dealership to go ahead with it.

I never let my wife take the car in for service... Those guys up-sell so much every time I'm there, I know my wife wouldn't make it out safely if she went alone. lol

[Boostaholic]

here is my analysis. based on the pictures you provided.

delivery date feb 12 2016. milage is 35,722km. so the car is about 20months old or 35,000km interval

5w20 oil should be synthetic if its at this weight

dont know what an emissions flush is, but im guessing its a EFI? id say this is a tad early, but depends on the manufactuers reconmended service interval

did a quick search and found this.

https://www.dodge.com/download/pdf/manuals/2016-Grand_Caravan-OM-2nd.pdf assuming this may be a US owners manual. page 676 is the maintenance schedule.

another quick search found this.
Recommended Maintenance Schedule | Cooksville Dodge Chrysler Jeep Ram (http://www.cooksvilledodgechrysler.com/recommended-maintenance-schedule/)

the 2016 caravan falls inbetween the 18 month/30k service and the 21 month / 35k service. depending on what was done or postponed on a previous visit.

18 Months or 30,000 Kms

Premium Lube, Oil & Filter
Check All Fluids
Multi-Point Inspection
Tire Rotation & Balance 4 Wheel
Fuel Induction Service
Engine Tune-up*

21 Months or 35,000 Kms

Premium Lube, Oil & Filter
Check All Fluids
Multi-Point Inspection

so this little bit of investigation shows the recommended service.
- the oil change and tire rotation, multi point inspection are grouped into a fall special. its in the recommended interval above
- the emissions flush looks like the fuel induction service. its in the recommended interval above.

the only upsell i see is the throttle service. having owned a caravan, i can tell you i did my own throttle servicing every oil change due to how horribly it gummed up.

so... what is the problem here? your pre-conception of what was needed for the car, or what was recommended from the manufacturer?



The link that said fuel induction service is from another independent dealer website trying to mislead customers. In the actual owners manual link you posted says nothing about fuel induction service. Here is the screen shot from the actual service manual:

https://imgur.com/SCKl5pF.jpg

[adc]

Just going to add my 2cents here as someone who worked for Chrysler in the past at a different dealer

The grand caravan takes 5w20 conventional oil but at the price of 100+ there should be an accompanying inspection done (brakes, tire depth, fluid check + top up, lights, battery test, etc) as well as tire rotation done. Price is fair if that has been done.

Emissions flush is their way of saying fuel injector service. At the dealer I worked for it was a recommended maintenance service at 36000km which is essentially a pure cash grab at that mileage. 1.0 hours labour for disconnecting a fuel line and connecting the machine in line while you can the go for a smoke and coffee and return 15 minutes later and it's all done. They don't call it gravy for no reason.

As for the throttle body service, I only worked there for a year and I never heard of this service nor do I believe I ever saw another tech doing this "service" my guess is it is another jacked up "recommended" dealer service they created. The dealership had their own recommended preventative maintenance schedule that they would push on customers as to what was recommended in the owners manual. Can you guess which one had more gravy in it?

Your mom got hustled in the end of it, an honest SA will explain the work being done, and only recommend things that should be done. People being their cars to the dealer because they say it's hard to find a reputable mechanic. Just because it's a dealership doesn't mean they won't rip you off any harder than some Indy shop.

[kross9]

Factory suggested vs Dealer suggested.. all dealers will do it. all indie shops will do it.

Onus is on the customer to review information to their own vehicle.. IE reading owners manual, knowing the fuel grade to use. Tire pressure etc etc

(as an aside it not a excuse to say they cant read English all manufactures offer the manual in a verity of different languages)

[Nabatron]

I was watching on cbc marketplace they did a episode of dealerships service departments trying to upsell BS that the service manual did not recommend. It is pretty interesting to see how stealerships can go out and rape the customers.

[!SG]

so did you read the owners manual before your claims against the dealership or after i had posted it up?

the owners manual will post the BARE BASIC MINIMUMS. it does not list when to change tires, where you should do your brakes, brake fluid, wiper blades, if being 4wd, differential fluids, transfer case fluids, lubricating of drive shafts if have grease points, topping of washer fluid, battery intervals, fuel filters, the list can get long... these are left up to the owner and dealership to educate. Some of these are based on the owners driving characteristics and cannot be given an exact number when it should be replaced.

if you argue, but your mom drives and she doesnt drive alot, it still comes down to your mom doing 35,000km in 20months. the interval reconmendation by the owners manual that you posted is 1 year or 16,000km. so taking into account what was recorded at your invoice, your mom is doing 21,000km per year which is above the average BY BOOK. this then means some of these services would be due sooner by milage than by annual visit.

Sure, you can argue the multi point inspection is a great upsell tool. No one ever wants to hear that their car isnt perfect and needs something extra other than an oil change! You the consumer still has the ability to say NO.

Only in the auto industry will ppl say they been upsold. wont hear the same arguement with cell phones, or even the food industry. I GOT GOD DAMN UPSOLD A SKEWER OF SHRIMP ON MY STEAK!!!

The link that said fuel induction service is from another independent dealer website trying to mislead customers. In the actual owners manual link you posted says nothing about fuel induction service. Here is the screen shot from the actual service manual:

https://imgur.com/SCKl5pF.jpg

[!SG]

a throttle service has been added into the regular servicing intervals now as regulations on fuel consumption, economy and emissions got tighter and the introduction of electronically controlled throttles (drive by wire).

whats in the throttle body service? they clean the plate, and passage, and sensors. why? drive by wire, your foot push down on pedal, pedal activates potentiometer, sends signal to computer, computer controls throttle body, uses sensors to figure out how much to open, and close. ok, maybe not the best explanation and i bet a tech is gonna jump right in and correct me.

Was it an upsell? yeah probably, but as i posted, ive had a caravan, and i did my throttle body service ever oil change (on my own) which solved my stalling and idling issue, and i cleaned my MAF sensor as well. so thus, my opinion is bias.


Just going to add my 2cents here as someone who worked for Chrysler in the past at a different dealer

The grand caravan takes 5w20 conventional oil but at the price of 100+ there should be an accompanying inspection done (brakes, tire depth, fluid check + top up, lights, battery test, etc) as well as tire rotation done. Price is fair if that has been done.

Emissions flush is their way of saying fuel injector service. At the dealer I worked for it was a recommended maintenance service at 36000km which is essentially a pure cash grab at that mileage. 1.0 hours labour for disconnecting a fuel line and connecting the machine in line while you can the go for a smoke and coffee and return 15 minutes later and it's all done. They don't call it gravy for no reason.

As for the throttle body service, I only worked there for a year and I never heard of this service nor do I believe I ever saw another tech doing this "service" my guess is it is another jacked up "recommended" dealer service they created. The dealership had their own recommended preventative maintenance schedule that they would push on customers as to what was recommended in the owners manual. Can you guess which one had more gravy in it?

Your mom got hustled in the end of it, an honest SA will explain the work being done, and only recommend things that should be done. People being their cars to the dealer because they say it's hard to find a reputable mechanic. Just because it's a dealership doesn't mean they won't rip you off any harder than some Indy shop.

[!SG]

i will say thank you though. looking at the cost, makes my dealership prices look like a freakin bargain!

The link that said fuel induction service is from another independent dealer website trying to mislead customers. In the actual owners manual link you posted says nothing about fuel induction service. Here is the screen shot from the actual service manual:

https://imgur.com/SCKl5pF.jpg

[Badhobz]

Seems like a total up sell. This is why I never let my parents or wife or in laws take their car in for service. I always take it in myself. Yes it's a pain in the ass but I've gotten to know most of the dealership guys and we have a pretty good relationship.

Just for outrageous comparison. Maserati oil change is 1000 bucks... and it's pretty much just a regular oil change.

[!SG]

but maserati's engine oil comes from 10,000 tears of a virgin italian synthetic fairy from the northern isolated italian ocean mountains that can only be gathered in the few short weeks in late fall every year.

Seems like a total up sell. This is why I never let my parents or wife or in laws take their car in for service. I always take it in myself. Yes it's a pain in the ass but I've gotten to know most of the dealership guys and we have a pretty good relationship.

Just for outrageous comparison. Maserati oil change is 1000 bucks... and it's pretty much just a regular oil change.

[FlyinOrange]

I was watching on cbc marketplace they did a episode of dealerships service departments trying to upsell BS that the service manual did not recommend.

Stumbled upon it last night. Eye openning.

Video. (http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/m/episodes/2015-2016/testing-service-centres-is-your-car-dealership-ripping-you-off)

Associated article. (https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4300557)

[freelunch]

The owner's manuals do talk about tire wear and when to replace them when worn to a certain limit etc. Most also say when to change diff fluid and other things, and if they don't, the maintenance intervals are listed on the manufacturer website. If the throttle body isn't listed then I don't see why it had to be done especially if there were no driveability issues. Sure , early and extra frequent maintenance is nice, but is it really necessary given the cost and questionable benefits when they aren't having any issues?

so did you read the owners manual before your claims against the dealership or after i had posted it up?

the owners manual will post the BARE BASIC MINIMUMS. it does not list when to change tires, where you should do your brakes, brake fluid, wiper blades, if being 4wd, differential fluids, transfer case fluids, lubricating of drive shafts if have grease points, topping of washer fluid, battery intervals, fuel filters, the list can get long... these are left up to the owner and dealership to educate. Some of these are based on the owners driving characteristics and cannot be given an exact number when it should be replaced.

if you argue, but your mom drives and she doesnt drive alot, it still comes down to your mom doing 35,000km in 20months. the interval reconmendation by the owners manual that you posted is 1 year or 16,000km. so taking into account what was recorded at your invoice, your mom is doing 21,000km per year which is above the average BY BOOK. this then means some of these services would be due sooner by milage than by annual visit.

Sure, you can argue the multi point inspection is a great upsell tool. No one ever wants to hear that their car isnt perfect and needs something extra other than an oil change! You the consumer still has the ability to say NO.

Only in the auto industry will ppl say they been upsold. wont hear the same arguement with cell phones, or even the food industry. I GOT GOD DAMN UPSOLD A SKEWER OF SHRIMP ON MY STEAK!!!

[Leung_Dog]

When you read this thread, you can really see the difference between people that only live off hearsay over people who work in the automotive industry and people who work on their cars.

You know whats the worst thing about working in the automotive industry most people like us revsceners don't realize? The assholes and thiefs are the forum readers and car enthusiasts.

Everyone walks in with the assumption that anyone that works in the dealership is trying to rip you off. As soon as someone doesn't want to give you a discount on something or recommends something to you it's "you have huge margins, this is a b.s. charge to make a quick buck."

Because people think they will be scammed or lied to before they even come in, they treat everyone in the dealership like trash, lie to them about everything, and make big deals about everything and feel entitled to every free trinket, doodad and a large discount.

I just wish that they pass some law where everyone has to pay MSRP like everything else in world. Apple sells iPhones for 1000 dollars and up, and the same phone with a bigger HD will cost you a couple hundred bucks more. You don't go in and talk to the Apple Genius and call them all crooks and ask for free stuff or tell them to give you a 20% discount cuz their markup is huge. You just fork up the cash, grab your new phone and move on.

If you want a discount, then don't be an asshole. This isn't the 80s where no one knows how much a car is worth or how much it should be. That's what the internet is for. You can pretty much buy the car online before you touch the steering wheel.

Sorry. Big rant. But I thought it should be pointed out cause I read so much of it. At the end of the day, the guy your bitching about is doing the same thing you guys are doing somewhere else. Making money. It seems like the EFI while not listed in the scheduled maintenance might be a common issue on Caravan's since SG also felt he needed to do it every oil change. Have you ever thought that the service advisor recommended it to your mother, to help her and save her from potential headaches. When you think of the worst of people, or have preconceptions about things before you go in, You will always feel ripped off. Try to have an open mind and evaluate things on a broader scale. It might allow you to see things in different light and not be so angry about everything.

[meme405]

When you read this thread, you can really see the difference between people that only live off hearsay over people who work in the automotive industry and people who work on their cars.

You know whats the worst thing about working in the automotive industry most people like us revsceners don't realize? The assholes and thiefs are the forum readers and car enthusiasts.

Everyone walks in with the assumption that anyone that works in the dealership is trying to rip you off. As soon as someone doesn't want to give you a discount on something or recommends something to you it's "you have huge margins, this is a b.s. charge to make a quick buck."

Because people think they will be scammed or lied to before they even come in, they treat everyone in the dealership like trash, lie to them about everything, and make big deals about everything and feel entitled to every free trinket, doodad and a large discount.

I just wish that they pass some law where everyone has to pay MSRP like everything else in world. Apple sells iPhones for 1000 dollars and up, and the same phone with a bigger HD will cost you a couple hundred bucks more. You don't go in and talk to the Apple Genius and call them all crooks and ask for free stuff or tell them to give you a 20% discount cuz their markup is huge. You just fork up the cash, grab your new phone and move on.

If you want a discount, then don't be an asshole. This isn't the 80s where no one knows how much a car is worth or how much it should be. That's what the internet is for. You can pretty much buy the car online before you touch the steering wheel.

Sorry. Big rant. But I thought it should be pointed out cause I read so much of it. At the end of the day, the guy your bitching about is doing the same thing you guys are doing somewhere else. Making money. It seems like the EFI while not listed in the scheduled maintenance might be a common issue on Caravan's since SG also felt he needed to do it every oil change. Have you ever thought that the service advisor recommended it to your mother, to help her and save her from potential headaches. When you think of the worst of people, or have preconceptions about things before you go in, You will always feel ripped off. Try to have an open mind and evaluate things on a broader scale. It might allow you to see things in different light and not be so angry about everything.

Your post was vague and seemingly contradictory, I didn't understand which side of the argument you were on until the last paragraph.

What really struck me, was that you want to make it a law that everyone pays MSRP? Like no matter how ridiculous Apple's pricing gets, I mean they are already making money hand over fist on every iPhone you sheeple buy, but regardless of whatever the next iPhone costs, you just want the government to force us to take it in the ass and pay it?

Have you lost your fucking mind? Do you know how bad what you are saying would be economically, as well as for the average citizen?

How would that impact an industry such as mine, where I bid projects based on a particular margin level. Projects I want or I know I need to be competitive, I bid with a lower margin, less desirable jobs I bid with a higher margin. By your logic, should the government intervene and say "No, you can only markup this much".

Am I misunderstanding what you are trying to say?

Also for the sake of pointing it out, last time I bought my new iphone they did give me a free bluetooth speaker and a free cell phone case.

[prudz]

When you read this thread, you can really see the difference between people that only live off hearsay over people who work in the automotive industry and people who work on their cars.

You know whats the worst thing about working in the automotive industry most people like us revsceners don't realize? The assholes and thiefs are the forum readers and car enthusiasts.

Everyone walks in with the assumption that anyone that works in the dealership is trying to rip you off. As soon as someone doesn't want to give you a discount on something or recommends something to you it's "you have huge margins, this is a b.s. charge to make a quick buck."

Because people think they will be scammed or lied to before they even come in, they treat everyone in the dealership like trash, lie to them about everything, and make big deals about everything and feel entitled to every free trinket, doodad and a large discount.

I just wish that they pass some law where everyone has to pay MSRP like everything else in world. Apple sells iPhones for 1000 dollars and up, and the same phone with a bigger HD will cost you a couple hundred bucks more. You don't go in and talk to the Apple Genius and call them all crooks and ask for free stuff or tell them to give you a 20% discount cuz their markup is huge. You just fork up the cash, grab your new phone and move on.

If you want a discount, then don't be an asshole. This isn't the 80s where no one knows how much a car is worth or how much it should be. That's what the internet is for. You can pretty much buy the car online before you touch the steering wheel.

Sorry. Big rant. But I thought it should be pointed out cause I read so much of it. At the end of the day, the guy your bitching about is doing the same thing you guys are doing somewhere else. Making money. It seems like the EFI while not listed in the scheduled maintenance might be a common issue on Caravan's since SG also felt he needed to do it every oil change. Have you ever thought that the service advisor recommended it to your mother, to help her and save her from potential headaches. When you think of the worst of people, or have preconceptions about things before you go in, You will always feel ripped off. Try to have an open mind and evaluate things on a broader scale. It might allow you to see things in different light and not be so angry about everything.


Slow clap emoji

[UnknownJinX]

When you read this thread, you can really see the difference between people that only live off hearsay over people who work in the automotive industry and people who work on their cars.

You know whats the worst thing about working in the automotive industry most people like us revsceners don't realize? The assholes and thiefs are the forum readers and car enthusiasts.

Everyone walks in with the assumption that anyone that works in the dealership is trying to rip you off. As soon as someone doesn't want to give you a discount on something or recommends something to you it's "you have huge margins, this is a b.s. charge to make a quick buck."

Because people think they will be scammed or lied to before they even come in, they treat everyone in the dealership like trash, lie to them about everything, and make big deals about everything and feel entitled to every free trinket, doodad and a large discount.

I just wish that they pass some law where everyone has to pay MSRP like everything else in world. Apple sells iPhones for 1000 dollars and up, and the same phone with a bigger HD will cost you a couple hundred bucks more. You don't go in and talk to the Apple Genius and call them all crooks and ask for free stuff or tell them to give you a 20% discount cuz their markup is huge. You just fork up the cash, grab your new phone and move on.

If you want a discount, then don't be an asshole. This isn't the 80s where no one knows how much a car is worth or how much it should be. That's what the internet is for. You can pretty much buy the car online before you touch the steering wheel.

Sorry. Big rant. But I thought it should be pointed out cause I read so much of it. At the end of the day, the guy your bitching about is doing the same thing you guys are doing somewhere else. Making money. It seems like the EFI while not listed in the scheduled maintenance might be a common issue on Caravan's since SG also felt he needed to do it every oil change. Have you ever thought that the service advisor recommended it to your mother, to help her and save her from potential headaches. When you think of the worst of people, or have preconceptions about things before you go in, You will always feel ripped off. Try to have an open mind and evaluate things on a broader scale. It might allow you to see things in different light and not be so angry about everything.

So trust them. Yeah, just hand over the key and wallet, because I am sure they know everything.

No one here said to just go in dealerships and treat everyone like crap. Just watch out, because there are people who want to rip you off out there. If you don't educate yourself, you are subject to their frauds.

I still go to the Honda dealership part department near me even though I don't have a Honda anymore. One of the guys there is very pleasant to talk to, and I asked him for suggestions when buying summer tires, and I purchased them from him. Pretty happy with what he recommended.

And yeah, enforcing MSRP on cars is a pretty dumb idea. Are you just jealous of people who have a silver tongue and get a lot of money off their car purchase?:badpokerface:

[ZN6]

Coffee and bo lo bao at my toyota dealer ship is worth the visit . They just need to supply the butter and microwave then it'd be golden.

Those who are uninformed are more likely to be taken to the cleaners. It's the service department's JOB to up-sell you. It's the dealers' bread and butter. I'm willing to bet that people just nod along without even thinking about it and think the dealer did and just blame the service guys.

Maybe people should start booking online now that the internet is literally all around us. Is it really that hard to pick and choose exactly what you want? There's no question anymore. The site tells you what is recommended as long as their vehicle miles are diligently entered, and you can choose whether or not you want to have a $25 cabin air filter changed for $60. It's not hard. As a younger generation, just do it for your parents and tell them to go in with no deviation to what is on there and you won't pay a cent more.

Not saying that dealers aren't a bit unethical, but seriously people have to start accepting responsibility for their own shit and take the time to do the due diligence to not get had. Don't wanna do an emission flush? don't choose it.

I've not once had to pay for anything more than an oil change if I only opted to do an oil change. Hot oil flush? :fuckthatshit: just WOT on a fresh oil change.

[Leung_Dog]

Your post was vague and seemingly contradictory, I didn't understand which side of the argument you were on until the last paragraph.

What really struck me, was that you want to make it a law that everyone pays MSRP? Like no matter how ridiculous Apple's pricing gets, I mean they are already making money hand over fist on every iPhone you sheeple buy, but regardless of whatever the next iPhone costs, you just want the government to force us to take it in the ass and pay it?

Have you lost your fucking mind? Do you know how bad what you are saying would be economically, as well as for the average citizen?

How would that impact an industry such as mine, where I bid projects based on a particular margin level. Projects I want or I know I need to be competitive, I bid with a lower margin, less desirable jobs I bid with a higher margin. By your logic, should the government intervene and say "No, you can only markup this much".

Am I misunderstanding what you are trying to say?

Also for the sake of pointing it out, last time I bought my new iphone they did give me a free bluetooth speaker and a free cell phone case.

I don't think its crazy at all for people to pay the price a product is advertised at. All I meant is why is it different for cars compared to everything else we buy. For example, Best Buy is advertising an PS4 on sale at $399.99, I don't walk into the store at Metro and go "I'll take the PS4 for $300, if you don't sell it to me for that price I'll go to Wal Mart in Richmond and ask them." That just doesn't make sense. So why does that make sense for cars?

If Apple is Selling an iPhone for $5000 dollars, either no one will buy them or only people dumb and rich enough will. No one is forcing you to buy it. Why is it wrong for Apple to charge customers whatever they want? I'm not saying a government should enforce everyone to buy something, just enforce that cars can only be sold at prices advertised. You do know in other parts of the world, people don't negotiate on car prices. They just pay the MSRP?

Why can't we have that here. If you only have a budget of $40,000 for a car, Why do expect that a MSRP of $47,999 can fit your budget? Save more money or buy a cheaper car. They could lower the MSRP before they make the rule. It just makes life easier for everyone. Nobody will feel like they are getting ripped off for paying sticker price, people that don't know how to negotiate won't pay more and people that do negotiate won't be as annoying.

I hope that clear things up. It has nothing to do with you bidding for your jobs at work, I was just talking about the car purchasing and dealership experience in general.

[twitchyzero]

think what leung dog is saying is to keep an open-mind...the few bad apples u see on cbc marketplace is not representative of everyone in that field, whether it's a dealer service dept, a dental office, or a lawyer's services.

edit: nevermind...I missed his point completely.

the iPhone comparison is flawed because it goes back to supply and demand. Enough people want it and there's parts constraints...it'll sell out at MSRP and people will pay a small premium for it on the grey market.

A big ticket item like an appliance, TV, car, house...you can negotiate those if they aren't moving...if it's not a better price it's for an extended warranty, options thrown in, etc.

which part of world are you referring to that pays MSRP on vehicles no questions asked?

[underscore]

Have you ever thought that the service advisor recommended it to your mother, to help her and save her from potential headaches. When you think of the worst of people, or have preconceptions about things before you go in, You will always feel ripped off. Try to have an open mind and evaluate things on a broader scale.

I guess anything is possible, but in my experience that's not very likely to be the case as it seems everyone I've had any experience with is either inept or a trying to rip you off (or both). If you do manage to find a knowledgeable and honest service advisor then stick with them because you just found the needle in the haystack.

[FlyinOrange]

I guess anything is possible, but in my experience that's not very likely to be the case as it seems everyone I've had any experience with is either inept or a trying to rip you off (or both). If you do manage to find a knowledgeable and honest service advisor then stick with them because you just found the needle in the haystack.

Same here. I've had one shop 'fix' an airbag issue by ripping the warning led out of the instrument cluster, another flood my alternator with oil (and not tell me about it), and one MC shop install a clutch that was engaged regardless how far in you pulled the lever (and claimed it just needed to 'break in').

My best consistent experience has been with the crew at BJPO - no Bimmer anymore, so back to rolling the dice.

[UnknownJinX]

I don't think its crazy at all for people to pay the price a product is advertised at. All I meant is why is it different for cars compared to everything else we buy. For example, Best Buy is advertising an PS4 on sale at $399.99, I don't walk into the store at Metro and go "I'll take the PS4 for $300, if you don't sell it to me for that price I'll go to Wal Mart in Richmond and ask them." That just doesn't make sense. So why does that make sense for cars?

If Apple is Selling an iPhone for $5000 dollars, either no one will buy them or only people dumb and rich enough will. No one is forcing you to buy it. Why is it wrong for Apple to charge customers whatever they want? I'm not saying a government should enforce everyone to buy something, just enforce that cars can only be sold at prices advertised. You do know in other parts of the world, people don't negotiate on car prices. They just pay the MSRP?

Why can't we have that here. If you only have a budget of $40,000 for a car, Why do expect that a MSRP of $47,999 can fit your budget? Save more money or buy a cheaper car. They could lower the MSRP before they make the rule. It just makes life easier for everyone. Nobody will feel like they are getting ripped off for paying sticker price, people that don't know how to negotiate won't pay more and people that do negotiate won't be as annoying.

I hope that clear things up. It has nothing to do with you bidding for your jobs at work, I was just talking about the car purchasing and dealership experience in general.

It's pretty easy to understand.

Electronic shops like Best Buy and Apple Stores are chains. You don't have shops of the same chain competing against each other. You just get whatever from the store closest to you. Their employees get paid by hours.

Dealerships, on the other hand, are mostly independent business. For the most part, the cooperation has almost nothing to do with the dealerships. Dealerships of the same make also compete against each other, and their employees' salaries are dependent on how much they do or sell.

Again, nothing forbids people from buying a car for below the MSRP price. It also helps dealership in some cases, as new MT cars and leftover models are pretty difficult to sell.

And in some cases, the negotiation/bargaining rule is the opposite in the rest of the world. You don't go in markets here and bargain, but in China, everyone does that in markets.

If you don't like dealerships, buy a Tesla.

[Jmac]

Or a Genesis

[FlyinOrange]

And in some cases, the negotiation/bargaining rule is the opposite in the rest of the world. You don't go in markets here and bargain, but in China, everyone does that in markets.



Amen to that - there seems to be a discomfort in parts of Western culture with the perceived 'confrontational' aspect of bartering/negotiation. Given that it can have a significant impact on cash inflow (salary) and major outflow (real estate + automobile) - the sooner embraced, the better.

Yale had an interesting paper that examined the relationship of myopic (uninformed) + sophisticated (informed) consumers and the companies they would purchase goods and services from. Long story, short - for the consumers, the former subsidise the latter. Long live the myopic consumer :)

[1BADMR2]

The best advise I can get anyone going to get maintenance work done on their car at a dealership or indy shop and "extra add on work" comes into the conversion is to ask if it is necessary at this time. They will usually respond by saying, yes due to mileage unless the tech has physically seen the problem. You can always decline the extra work and think about it, do research, ask someone knowledgeable about vehicles, ask cortana, etc., make sure it hasn't already been done.

You can always go back to get the "extra add on" work done if you feel it is required. Just read my post #47 and ask questions.

[UnknownJinX]

The best advise I can get anyone going to get maintenance work done on their car at a dealership or indy shop and "extra add on work" comes into the conversion is to ask if it is necessary at this time. They will usually respond by saying, yes due to mileage unless the tech has physically seen the problem. You can always decline the extra work and think about it, do research, ask someone knowledgeable about vehicles, ask cortana, etc., make sure it hasn't already been done.

You can always go back to get the "extra add on" work done if you feel it is required. Just read my post #47 and ask questions.I couldn't have said it better.

Apparently, some dealerships force you to buy stuff by taking away your key in the State. Of course, call the cops and they just magically give the key back to you.

[Klobbersaurus]

when I worked at the dealership as an SA, we would have weekly contests to promote maintenance stuff, I've sold a hot oil flush as part of the vehicles first oil change

[Acura604]

LOL... a friend had an 'incident' today at CARTER HONDA.

He drives a 2006 Honda Accord V6 - has about 150000km on it.

The B1 popped up which is a oil change/tire rotation/brakes servicing/inspections. This costs $299.

Being the cheapass that he is... he opted for some $99 winter special which was an oil change and tire rotation.

So he gets his car back... the bill is $99 plus $15 (misc and shop fees) Plus Tax.

to top it off, they didn't do the tire rotation and said "well, we checked and it looks like the tires up front have best tread so we left it".... he wasn't pleased because he feels he paid $115 plus tax for an oil change. when a regular oil change is $69 or something.

he's too timid to do anything so he chalks this up as a lesson and/or a Fri the 13th bad luck episode.

[Jmac]

I've been shopping around for new cars lately and I found one particularly odd thing when I asked about scheduled maintenance at one particular dealership. This particular dealership has a "Dealer Recommended Maintenance and Service Schedule."

First thing I noticed was, for a brand new car, a 6,000 km oil change interval, which seemed insane for a 2018 model year. In this case, the manufacturer recommends every 10,000 km or 6 months, which is still well shy of what seems to be an industry-standard 15,000 km or 1-year interval.

On top of that:
- Every 6,000 km, a Deposit Control Motor Oil Additive ($17) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 12,000 km, a Fuel Additive ($11) - Only recommended by manufacturer if a Top Tier fuel isn't used
- Every 12,000 km, a Deposit Control Fuel Additive ($29) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 12,000 km, Replace Engine Air Filter ($47) - Manufacturer recommends every 30,000 km.
- Every 24,000 km, a Transmission Deposit Control Service ($22) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 24,000 km, a Engine Coolant Deposit Control Service ($15) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 24,000 km, Replace Spark Plugs ($194) - Manufacturer recommends every 70,000 km.
- Every 30,000 km, a Climate Control Maintenance Service ($108) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 42,000 km, a Brake Fluid Exchange Service ($104) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 42,000 km, a Power Steering Fluid Exchange Service ($125) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 48,000 km, an Engine Hot Oil Performance Service ($57) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 48,000 km, a Transmission Fluid Exchange Service ($246) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 60,000 km, a Major Emissions Fuel Saver Service ($164) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 60,000 km, a Climate Control Maintenance Service ($108) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- After 96,000 km and then every 48,000 km thereafter, an Engine Coolant Fluid Exchange Service ($150) - Manufacturer recommends every 200,000 km or 10 years.

These guys are just gouging the shit out of their customers.

Manufacturer recommended schedule is (excluding inspections):
- Every 10,000 km, replace oil & filter, replace cabin air filter, rotate tires. Add fuel additive if Top Tier fuel isn't used.
- Every 30,000 km, replace engine air filter.
- Every 70,000 km, replace spark plugs.
- Every 200,000 km, replace engine coolant.

Over the first 150,000 km:
Manufacturer recommended maintenance - $1504
Dealer recommended maintenance - $6866

[UnknownJinX]

I've been shopping around for new cars lately and I found one particularly odd thing when I asked about scheduled maintenance at one particular dealership. This particular dealership has a "Dealer Recommended Maintenance and Service Schedule."

First thing I noticed was, for a brand new car, a 6,000 km oil change interval, which seemed insane for a 2018 model year. In this case, the manufacturer recommends every 10,000 km or 6 months, which is still well shy of what seems to be an industry-standard 15,000 km or 1-year interval.

On top of that:
- Every 6,000 km, a Deposit Control Motor Oil Additive ($17) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 12,000 km, a Fuel Additive ($11) - Only recommended by manufacturer if a Top Tier fuel isn't used
- Every 12,000 km, a Deposit Control Fuel Additive ($29) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 12,000 km, Replace Engine Air Filter ($47) - Manufacturer recommends every 30,000 km.
- Every 24,000 km, a Transmission Deposit Control Service ($22) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 24,000 km, a Engine Coolant Deposit Control Service ($15) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 24,000 km, Replace Spark Plugs ($194) - Manufacturer recommends every 70,000 km.
- Every 30,000 km, a Climate Control Maintenance Service ($108) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 42,000 km, a Brake Fluid Exchange Service ($104) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 42,000 km, a Power Steering Fluid Exchange Service ($125) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 48,000 km, an Engine Hot Oil Performance Service ($57) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 48,000 km, a Transmission Fluid Exchange Service ($246) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 60,000 km, a Major Emissions Fuel Saver Service ($164) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 60,000 km, a Climate Control Maintenance Service ($108) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- After 96,000 km and then every 48,000 km thereafter, an Engine Coolant Fluid Exchange Service ($150) - Manufacturer recommends every 200,000 km or 10 years.

These guys are just gouging the shit out of their customers.

Manufacturer recommended schedule is (excluding inspections):
- Every 10,000 km, replace oil & filter, replace cabin air filter, rotate tires. Add fuel additive if Top Tier fuel isn't used.
- Every 30,000 km, replace engine air filter.
- Every 70,000 km, replace spark plugs.
- Every 200,000 km, replace engine coolant.

Yeah, a lot of them sound like BS.

Climate Control Service sounds like a simple cabin air filter change, which takes all of 5 minutes to change out on my 08 Accord and 09 RX-8. That said, if you use the fancy Mazda Aldehyde ones, they cost a fortune, but that's a Mazda-only thing AFAIK.

And don't most cars use electric power steering nowadays? It would be funny if some goes in with a car with EPS and they said you need a PS fluid change, LOL.

[donk.]

If there were no gullible people in this world. There would not be any rich.

[Jmac]

Yeah, a lot of them sound like BS.

Climate Control Service sounds like a simple cabin air filter change, which takes all of 5 minutes to change out on my 08 Accord and 09 RX-8. That said, if you use the fancy Mazda Aldehyde ones, they cost a fortune, but that's a Mazda-only thing AFAIK.

And don't most cars use electric power steering nowadays? It would be funny if some goes in with a car with EPS and they said you need a PS fluid change, LOL.
The cabin air filter, they explained, is replaced every oil change (and the manufacturer has that in their schedule, too) and is included in the oil change service cost ($52)

I didn’t ask them to explain the Climate Control service, but I don’t see what they’d do besides laugh all the way to the bank.

[underscore]

Half the stuff the dealer lists I've never even heard of. What the deuce is "Engine Hot Oil Performance Service"?

- Every 200,000 km, replace engine coolant.

That seems way too long, similar to manufacturers now saying transmission fluid is "lifetime". It seems like they're riding a line between making money off service, and just shortening the lifespan of the vehicle.

[TouringTeg]

LOL... a friend had an 'incident' today at CARTER HONDA.

He drives a 2006 Honda Accord V6 - has about 150000km on it.

The B1 popped up which is a oil change/tire rotation/brakes servicing/inspections. This costs $299.

Being the cheapass that he is... he opted for some $99 winter special which was an oil change and tire rotation.

So he gets his car back... the bill is $99 plus $15 (misc and shop fees) Plus Tax.

to top it off, they didn't do the tire rotation and said "well, we checked and it looks like the tires up front have best tread so we left it".... he wasn't pleased because he feels he paid $115 plus tax for an oil change. when a regular oil change is $69 or something.

he's too timid to do anything so he chalks this up as a lesson and/or a Fri the 13th bad luck episode.

I had to get my Supra in for an inspection prior to shipping via Hansens. Buyer paid. Canadian Tire quoted $150 which is pretty high. To top it off they charged a $15 shop supply fee. What supplies did you use for an inspection? A pair of latex gloves?

[Badhobz]

eruhhh you guys wont like the prices at exotic dealerships then....

i blow my nose with your 160 dollar oil change. Try 1600 for the same friggin service.

[kkthind]

i had to cough up $550 for oil change, tire rotation, filter change, fluid top off and inspection :pokerface:

[GLOW]

Half the stuff the dealer lists I've never even heard of. What the deuce is "Engine Hot Oil Performance Service"?


sounds like 2 bikini babes wrestle in hot oil on top of your hood.

[GS8]

I've been shopping around for new cars lately and I found one particularly odd thing when I asked about scheduled maintenance at one particular dealership. This particular dealership has a "Dealer Recommended Maintenance and Service Schedule."

First thing I noticed was, for a brand new car, a 6,000 km oil change interval, which seemed insane for a 2018 model year. In this case, the manufacturer recommends every 10,000 km or 6 months, which is still well shy of what seems to be an industry-standard 15,000 km or 1-year interval.

On top of that:
- Every 6,000 km, a Deposit Control Motor Oil Additive ($17) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 12,000 km, a Fuel Additive ($11) - Only recommended by manufacturer if a Top Tier fuel isn't used
- Every 12,000 km, a Deposit Control Fuel Additive ($29) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 12,000 km, Replace Engine Air Filter ($47) - Manufacturer recommends every 30,000 km.
- Every 24,000 km, a Transmission Deposit Control Service ($22) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 24,000 km, a Engine Coolant Deposit Control Service ($15) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 24,000 km, Replace Spark Plugs ($194) - Manufacturer recommends every 70,000 km.
- Every 30,000 km, a Climate Control Maintenance Service ($108) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 42,000 km, a Brake Fluid Exchange Service ($104) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 42,000 km, a Power Steering Fluid Exchange Service ($125) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 48,000 km, an Engine Hot Oil Performance Service ($57) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 48,000 km, a Transmission Fluid Exchange Service ($246) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 60,000 km, a Major Emissions Fuel Saver Service ($164) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 60,000 km, a Climate Control Maintenance Service ($108) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- After 96,000 km and then every 48,000 km thereafter, an Engine Coolant Fluid Exchange Service ($150) - Manufacturer recommends every 200,000 km or 10 years.

These guys are just gouging the shit out of their customers.

Manufacturer recommended schedule is (excluding inspections):
- Every 10,000 km, replace oil & filter, replace cabin air filter, rotate tires. Add fuel additive if Top Tier fuel isn't used.
- Every 30,000 km, replace engine air filter.
- Every 70,000 km, replace spark plugs.
- Every 200,000 km, replace engine coolant.

Over the first 150,000 km:
Manufacturer recommended maintenance - $1504
Dealer recommended maintenance - $6866

What they're basically saying is 'don't trust the manufacturer, trust us the shop the jockeys. We know more than engineers.'

:badpokerface:

[dared3vil0]

What they're basically saying is 'don't trust the manufacturer, trust us the shop the jockeys. We know more than engineers.'

:badpokerface:

No.

What they're saying is "we're going to try to rip you off so blatantly it's not even funny"

[TypeRNammer]

LOL... a friend had an 'incident' today at CARTER HONDA.

He drives a 2006 Honda Accord V6 - has about 150000km on it.

The B1 popped up which is a oil change/tire rotation/brakes servicing/inspections. This costs $299.

Being the cheapass that he is... he opted for some $99 winter special which was an oil change and tire rotation.

So he gets his car back... the bill is $99 plus $15 (misc and shop fees) Plus Tax.

to top it off, they didn't do the tire rotation and said "well, we checked and it looks like the tires up front have best tread so we left it".... he wasn't pleased because he feels he paid $115 plus tax for an oil change. when a regular oil change is $69 or something.

he's too timid to do anything so he chalks this up as a lesson and/or a Fri the 13th bad luck episode.

Richmond Subaru does a similar thing, probably same thing with other dealers, bring in a coupon for oil change and tire rotation for $59.99. Only to find out on the final bill there's fees over 15 bucks for shop fees and other miscellaneous fees bringing the total closer to $100.00.

Subarus equivalent to Honda's B1 service is $350.... :lawl:

[1BADMR2]

On top of that:
- Every 6,000 km, a Deposit Control Motor Oil Additive ($17) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 12,000 km, a Fuel Additive ($11) - Only recommended by manufacturer if a Top Tier fuel isn't used
- Every 12,000 km, a Deposit Control Fuel Additive ($29) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 12,000 km, Replace Engine Air Filter ($47) - Manufacturer recommends every 30,000 km.
- Every 24,000 km, a Transmission Deposit Control Service ($22) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 24,000 km, a Engine Coolant Deposit Control Service ($15) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 24,000 km, Replace Spark Plugs ($194) - Manufacturer recommends every 70,000 km.
- Every 30,000 km, a Climate Control Maintenance Service ($108) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 42,000 km, a Brake Fluid Exchange Service ($104) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 42,000 km, a Power Steering Fluid Exchange Service ($125) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 48,000 km, an Engine Hot Oil Performance Service ($57) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 48,000 km, a Transmission Fluid Exchange Service ($246) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 60,000 km, a Major Emissions Fuel Saver Service ($164) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- Every 60,000 km, a Climate Control Maintenance Service ($108) - Not in manufacturer recommended maintenance schedule
- After 96,000 km and then every 48,000 km thereafter, an Engine Coolant Fluid Exchange Service ($150) - Manufacturer recommends every 200,000 km or 10 years.

The only one of the "dealer recommended services" I would consider if I was keeping the vehicle would be the 48,000 kms tranny service and it better include the filter. The statement "you don't need to replace the tranny fluid" that manufactures are telling owners is just BS. Fluid breaks down due to time and heat which leads to bigger problems down the road right when it's out of warranty. I was told "the fluid doesn't have to be replaced because it's long life" when I bought my previous 2015 F150 by the saleman and I laughed at him and said " yeah right". My sister had bad experiences with 2 used X5's she owned due to the tranny fluid not being changed out.

My 2017 F150 will get all the drivetrain fluids replaced every 50,000 - 55,000 kms and my MR2 gets the gearbox fluid replace every year winter. It just helps me sleep at night while I dream of boosting in every gear.

[fliptuner]

Trannies. Pay a little now or a lot later.


https://media.giphy.com/media/aRxZcYuMq6nUA/giphy.gif

[Mr.Money]

eruhhh you guys wont like the prices at exotic dealerships then....

i blow my nose with your 160 dollar oil change. Try 1600 for the same friggin service.

:suspicious: 911 turbo or lambo

[Jmac]

The only one of the "dealer recommended services" I would consider if I was keeping the vehicle would be the 48,000 kms tranny service and it better include the filter. The statement "you don't need to replace the tranny fluid" that manufactures are telling owners is just BS. Fluid breaks down due to time and heat which leads to bigger problems down the road right when it's out of warranty. I was told "the fluid doesn't have to be replaced because it's long life" when I bought my previous 2015 F150 by the saleman and I laughed at him and said " yeah right". My sister had bad experiences with 2 used X5's she owned due to the tranny fluid not being changed out.

My 2017 F150 will get all the drivetrain fluids replaced every 50,000 - 55,000 kms and my MR2 gets the gearbox fluid replace every year winter. It just helps me sleep at night while I dream of boosting in every gear.
Part of the inspections in the manufacturer’s maintenance schedule is to check transmission fluid, etc.

I assume that’s a replace as needed by the manufacturer’s intentions.

[Badhobz]

:suspicious: 911 turbo or lambo

Ferrari / Maserati

[Mr.Money]

not that i'd buy one but 25k usd fucking dollars for a service just so a mechanic can fly to you from the factory :facepalm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQjhUu8A_JM

[Badhobz]

That's awesome!!! Im always yammering about how insane the servicing costs are for my Maserati. Now I can shut the fuck up.

My last service bill was almost 20 grand.
Valve cover (weeping)
Thermostat
Fluids change
Engine mounts (worn)
Coolant hoses (cracked)
Fixed some door leather trim coming loose
Fixed a small window rattle coming from the driver side door

40,000kms on the car. 2012 granturismo

Good thing I bought 3rd party extended insurance. They covered 5gs worth of work.

[hud 91gt]

^ Can this be DIY for the home mechanic? I foresee some cheap exotics on craigslist in the near future. haha

[Jgresch]

eruhhh you guys wont like the prices at exotic dealerships then....

i blow my nose with your 160 dollar oil change. Try 1600 for the same friggin service.

Ferrari / Maserati

That's awesome!!! Im always yammering about how insane the servicing costs are for my Maserati. Now I can shut the fuck up.
40,000kms on the car. 2012 granturismo

Just for outrageous comparison. Maserati oil change is 1000 bucks... and it's pretty much just a regular oil change.

What kind of car you have?

[Badhobz]

^ Can this be DIY for the home mechanic? I foresee some cheap exotics on craigslist in the near future. haha

The quattroporte is already reasonable priced. You can pick one up for 30-40k in fantastic condition. Same 4.7L Ferrari built engine as mine.

I think you might be able to diy but I'm too chicken shit to do it. Brakes you can do it yourself but some things require specialised Ferrari tools.

Watch out for variators on the older engine. That's a 10k job.

[Gunsmokez]

Funny, I was actually at that dealership few weeks ago. And Yes, they tried hard to up sell my wife on repairs. She knew better called me denied it. Came home looked up our Manufacturer specs for maintenance. Went to another dealer, told them what we wanted got it done for $300 less then what was originally offered to us by the original dealership mentioned.

Glad , Since this other dealer is much closer . So, it all worked out. The other one being close to work , and at the auto mall she assumed they would be a decent place.