[Manic!]

You would think with all the guns Texas has this would not happen.

Multiple people killed in shooting at Texas church - CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/05/us/texas-church-shooting/index.html)

Maybe we should just have one US mass shooting thread?

[stewie]

You would think with all the guns Texas has this would not happen.

Multiple people killed in shooting at Texas church - CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/05/us/texas-church-shooting/index.html)

Maybe we should just have one US mass shooting thread?

Surprised he hadn't killed more people if it was during a church service.

Another person trying to outdo the last?

[SiRV]

America is imploding in on itself

[JSALES]

What's new, America?

[Hondaracer]

Another situation which I care deeply about, pray for Texas #TexasStrong

[Manic!]

Another situation which I care deeply about, pray for Texas #TexasStrong

LOL!!!

[G0rilla]

A mass shooting in the states is as common as a white bmw/merc car accidents in Richmond

[threezero]

We had a discussion about this in the other thread less than 2 months ago. This is not suppose to happen to open carry pro gun Texas.

Is church a no gun zone in Texas?

[twitchyzero]

RIP to the victims but must be a slow news day

[Mr.HappySilp]

A mass shooting in the states is as common as a white bmw/merc car accidents in Richmond

why bmw/merc. I though C-lais drive corolla :):):)

[320icar]

It’s like the boy who cried wolf. I really don’t care anymore.

[MG1]

At first, I was a little concerned for our friend, el bastardo, but then saw the word "church" in the title............... gulolol.

El Bastardo has survived floods, storms, lightning, shootings, wildfires, even the wrath of jesus. He is the Chuck Norris of RS. Amen!

[GLOW]

he also survived a guy that knows a guy that knows a guy that knows a guy with connections. :bchow:

[welfare]

We had a discussion about this in the other thread less than 2 months ago. This is not suppose to happen to open carry pro gun Texas.

Is church a no gun zone in Texas?

:thumbsup:

Local TV station KENS 5 has spoken to witness Kevin Jordan who lives less than 50 yards from the church.

He was outside changing his car’s oil when the gunman started the attack.

Jordan said his neighbor, who he described as a man who would do anything for anyone, came out with a gun then shot the suspect while taking cover behind a car.

“If it wasn’t for him, the guy wouldn’t have stopped,” Jordan said.

[Badhobz]

why bmw/merc. I though C-lais drive corolla :):):)

The c class and 3 series is the corolla / civic for Richmond.

[Euro7r]

Last place I would expect a shooting to happen is at a church...

[punkwax]

Right.. because religion and human casualties don't go hand in hand. :badpokerface:

[fsy82]

so terrorist attack....:badpokerface:

[welfare]

Right.. because religion and human casualties don't go hand in hand. :badpokerface:

Easy now..

[320icar]

so terrorist attack....:badpokerface:

Only if he isn’t white

[Lomac]

Last place I would expect a shooting to happen is at a church...

Not the first time a shooting has occurred at a church.

Charleston 2015
Wisconsin Sikh Temple 2012
Burnette Chapel 2017
Knoxville Unitarian Universalist Church 2008

Not to mention that one that happened in Quebec City at a mosque earlier this year.

[Mr.Money]

America is fucked having copy cat killers....i tried watching my Travel cooking show on CNN and they're giving the shooter the whole spot light the entire Night,my anthony bourdain show is a no go.
Wonder how this guys getting his jollies off knowing what he did and who's watching him now he's such a lonely sick psychopath....Again,the same story repeating again,Bad mental health,still able to get a gun as easy as a pack of gum in America.

[The_AK]

So is this terrorism? Can we have a colour wheel system of some sort to identify these

[welfare]

America is fucked having copy cat killers....i tried watching my Travel cooking show on CNN and they're giving the shooter the whole spot light the entire Night,my anthony bourdain show is a no go.
Wonder how this guys getting his jollies off knowing what he did and who's watching him now he's such a lonely sick psychopath....Again,the same story repeating again,Bad mental health,still able to get a gun as easy as a pack of gum in America.

He was in the US military.
Might explain a bit

Only if he isn’t white

Yes. He was white

[Jmac]

https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1820163660

SUTHERLAND SPRINGS, TX—In the hours following a violent rampage in Texas in which a lone attacker killed 27 individuals and seriously injured several others, citizens living in the only country where this kind of mass killing routinely occurs reportedly concluded Sunday that there was no way to prevent the massacre from taking place. “This was a terrible tragedy, but sometimes these things just happen and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop them,” said Kansas resident Britt Mulvanos, echoing sentiments expressed by tens of millions of individuals who reside in a nation where over half of the world’s deadliest mass shootings have occurred in the past 50 years and whose citizens are 20 times more likely to die of gun violence than those of other developed nations. “It’s a shame, but what can we do? There really wasn’t anything that was going to keep this individual from snapping and killing a lot of people if that’s what they really wanted.” At press time, residents of the only economically advanced nation in the world where roughly two mass shootings have occurred every month for the past eight years were referring to themselves and their situation as “helpless.”

[welfare]

Pretty sad the pastor's 14y/o daughter was one of the fatalities. Her parents were away while this happened

[GS8]

This is the shooter

Is this a terrorist?

https://everipedia-storage.s3-accelerate.amazonaws.com/ProfilePics/devin-kelley__18361.png

https://www.10tv.com/sites/10tv.com/files/Devin%20Kelley%20mug%20CBS.jpg

How about now? :troll:

(same person)

RIP to the innocent victims in this tiny town.

[welfare]

https://www.rt.com/usa/408865-texas-shooter-identity-name/


Kelley is said to be 26 years old and a resident of New Braunfels, a city near San Antonio, located some 30 miles from the site of the attack. As it appears from his Facebook account, since taken down, he was a fan of guns, with his cover photo showing an assault rifle. Purported screenshots of his FB page, whose authenticity cannot be immediately confirmed, appear to feature an Antifascist Action banner, which sparked speculation online about his ties to the left-wing scene

Lotta speculation going on..

[Slifer]

In before ISIS claims they were the mastermind behind this shooting.

[white rocket]

No disrespect implied but every time there is a shooting in the U.S. now I can't help but think of this guy.

https://i.imgur.com/Jn6ZBVQ.jpg

[threezero]

:thumbsup:

good for him for stopping further killing. but what about those that already died?

[welfare]

good for him for stopping further killing. but what about those that already died?

The killer wasn't legally allowed to carry due to his military dismissal. I'm not sure how stricter gun control would have stopped anyone from being killed.
What I am pretty sure of is that more relaxed gun control did in this case.

[Manic!]

The killer wasn't legally allowed to carry due to his military dismissal. I'm not sure how stricter gun control would have stopped anyone from being killed.
What I am pretty sure of is that more relaxed gun control did in this case.

From my understanding he was legally allowed to buy guns because the military did not report the domestic violence cases against him. The people that did not report it should be held responsible.

[westopher]

It’s like the boy who cried wolf. I really don’t care anymore.
Except every time the boy cried wolf, the wolf killed like 20 people, and everyone still continued to ignore him.
Soooooooo its like the opposite haha.

[Berzerker]

The worst part is of this whole gun control debate is that it's never going to be solved by debating. It's going to take action. Period. Just like Australia did. It actually hurts my brain watching US people on FB argue for their right to guns to "protect themselves from the government" Its mind bottling. (trailer park boys)

Berz out.

[320icar]

^^ it ain’t rocket appliances

[originalhypa]

Just like Australia did.

It's crazy to compare Australia's gun culture to ours in North America. Australia really didn't have a problem with guns until that douchey prick slaughtered all those people in 96'. It was a terrible massacre, and led to a nationwide gun ban. But there were so many studies which concluded that the gun ban didn't change anything as far as gun crime goes. There were studies done that compared Australia to New Zealand (who had no anti-gun laws) and found that there was no statistical evidence that the gun ban had worked.

One of the most pressing facts to take into account is that not all of Australia abided by the gun bans.

A 2017 study commissioned by Gun Control Australia found that Australian states had significantly weakened gun laws since the NFA was first introduced, with no jurisdiction fully compliant with the NFA. For example, many states now allow children to use guns and the mandatory 28 cooling-off period required for gun purchases has been relaxed in many jurisdictions, with no waiting period for purchasers who already own at least one gun.New South Wales also allows the limited use of silencers, even though they are supposed to be a prohibited weapon. No state or territory has outlined a timeframe for achieving full compliance with the NFA.


Australia didn't have a problem with guns prior to 1996.

People need to take into account the fact that non-gang related gun homicides are still incredibly rare. You're more like to get raped while contracting cancer from a drunk driver who is texting while driving, than you are to be shot.

But hey, let's ban guns so the masses have a false sense of security.

[Hondaracer]

Another fact that had been brought up in the vegas thread was that more than 2/3 of gun related deaths in the US are from suicides, not homicides.

IMO a more disturbing statistic in a lot of ways.

[320icar]

It's crazy to compare Australia's gun culture to ours in North America. Australia really didn't have a problem with guns until that douchey prick slaughtered all those people in 96'. It was a terrible massacre, and led to a nationwide gun ban. But there were so many studies which concluded that the gun ban didn't change anything as far as gun crime goes. There were studies done that compared Australia to New Zealand (who had no anti-gun laws) and found that there was no statistical evidence that the gun ban had worked.

One of the most pressing facts to take into account is that not all of Australia abided by the gun bans.



Australia didn't have a problem with guns prior to 1996.

People need to take into account the fact that non-gang related gun homicides are still incredibly rare. You're more like to get raped while contracting cancer from a drunk driver who is texting while driving, than you are to be shot.

But hey, let's ban guns so the masses have a false sense of security.

So you suggest doing nothing?

[originalhypa]

So you suggest doing nothing?

It’s not my place to suggest anything.
I’m a fan of guns and the culture that surrounds it. I enjoy shooting and hunting, and would be pretty upset if some pussy senator or mp tried to take that away.

It’s not my problem to make everyone feel safe. Let’s face it, if you take guns away from regular folks the criminals will still have guns. It’s insane to think that any legislation put forward will stop criminals from having guns.

[Berzerker]

It's not criminals doing these mass shootings though is it. It's normal people going to a gun store and buying weapons designed to kill humans. No one is hunting with an AR-15 or an AK or any other assault rile now are they?

Criminals get guns, yes but not from gun stores. They get black market guns but those guns come from somewhere.

Berz out.

[welfare]

Criminals get guns, yes but not from gun stores. They get black market guns but those guns come from somewhere.

Berz out.

Do you think that the ambition, and therefore the ability, to kill is dependant on this?

These arguments: statues, guns, video games, etc, all boil down to your belief in human nature and it's reaction to environment.
Constrained or unconstrained. Left or right.

You can remove the "tools" (at the cost of every individual who appreciates and respects such freedoms) But the vehicle will always remain. IMO

[320icar]

It’s not my place to suggest anything.
I’m a fan of guns and the culture that surrounds it. I enjoy shooting and hunting, and would be pretty upset if some pussy senator or mp tried to take that away.

It’s not my problem to make everyone feel safe. Let’s face it, if you take guns away from regular folks the criminals will still have guns. It’s insane to think that any legislation put forward will stop criminals from having guns.

I get it. I have my pal/rpal. But when something’s fucked up, it’s fucked up. No ones taking away our Canadian pea shooters. But the us and gun culture has just gone too far. They’ve flown too close to the sun

[Berzerker]

Do you think that the ambition, and therefore the ability, to kill is dependant on this?

These arguments: statues, guns, video games, etc, all boil down to your belief in human nature and it's reaction to environment.
Constrained or unconstrained. Left or right.

You can remove the "tools" (at the cost of every individual who appreciates and respects such freedoms) But the vehicle will always remain. IMO


I think that when guns aren't readily available the average person will have a hard time trying to locate and purchase them. Most people wouldn't even know how or where to procure and illegal assault weapon. So yes I think that taking them and regulating them and making them not available would make them harder to get. It would also drive the price up so a kid like the one that shot up the church might not even be able to afford them even if they could find them.

Berz out.

[Hondaracer]

Someone who is willing to kill dozens of people can probably Scrounge up enough money to buy one of the 300 million guns in circulation in the states regardless of cost.

Whether that’s breaking into homes, robbing banks, etc if your mindset is to kill I doubt the means to obtain a weapon is a deterant.

[westopher]

The whole point is, something should have been done before there were 300 million guns. I do t know. Maybe let’s make it harder to get guns before there is 400 million?
Or just keep saying here is nothing that can be done.

[Manic!]

Someone who is willing to kill dozens of people can probably Scrounge up enough money to buy one of the 300 million guns in circulation in the states regardless of cost.

Whether that’s breaking into homes, robbing banks, etc if your mindset is to kill I doubt the means to obtain a weapon is a deterant.


Yet for some reason us government thinks it can stop terrorism and spends 100's of billions fighting it. Maybe they should classify every mass shooting as a terrorist attack.

[Great68]

Someone who is willing to kill dozens of people can probably Scrounge up enough money to buy one of the 300 million guns in circulation in the states regardless of cost.

Whether that’s breaking into homes, robbing banks, etc if your mindset is to kill I doubt the means to obtain a weapon is a deterant.

Ah, the old "It's too hard, so might as well do nothing" argument.

Doing nothing has seemed to be working well for the USA over the last 20 years.

[Hondaracer]

So you do all the things people want done, big background checks, criminal records get denied purchase, waiting periods, gun show loop holes, etc.

Then these keep happening, then what?

100% you are never going to get much further with legislation than that.

the "it's a start" mentality is going to see soooo much pushback people are just going to be buying more and more ammo and high capacity mags etc

not saying i have the answer, nor do i really care what the states do, let them implode upon themselves. However, these minor tweaks to legislation wont do shit.

People are driving down people with vehicles now, who needs a gun

[MarkyMark]

So you do all the things people want done, big background checks, criminal records get denied purchase, waiting periods, gun show loop holes, etc.

Then these keep happening, then what?

100% you are never going to get much further with legislation than that.

the "it's a start" mentality is going to see soooo much pushback people are just going to be buying more and more ammo and high capacity mags etc

not saying i have the answer, nor do i really care what the states do, let them implode upon themselves. However, these minor tweaks to legislation wont do shit.

People are driving down people with vehicles now, who needs a gun

Of course it will keep happening, but as the decades go by the hope is that it'll be less frequent. It doesn't have to be instant to work.

And yes the car thing... How many people were killed with that latest car killing compared to Vegas or Texas? Pretty sure a car ain't killing 50 people, and if they do, they are one excellent driver.

I don't see why people say things like "and when it doesn't work?" So what? Do we have to sacrifice a million puppies in the name of a failed attempt of stopping mass shootings? We're still trying to figure out this cure for cancer thing, would we just give up on that too, because heaven forbid a fix didn't come in the first year of trying.

[Zedbra]

Of course it will keep happening, but as the decades go by the hope is that it'll be less frequent. It doesn't have to be instant to work.

And yes the car thing... How many people were killed with that latest car killing compared to Vegas or Texas? Pretty sure a car ain't killing 50 people, and if they do, they are one excellent driver.

I don't see why people say things like "and when it doesn't work?" So what? Do we have to sacrifice a million puppies in the name of a failed attempt of stopping mass shootings? We're still trying to figure out this cure for cancer thing, would we just give up on that too, because heaven forbid a fix didn't come in the first year of trying.

And at the moment, not in the headlines, is that the USA has bought over 40 million more guns during Obama's presidency and the death rate per capita by guns is at a 40 year low. But, sensationalism wins the minds of those with the eyes closed. Meanwhile, over 1000 dead from drugs in BC alone thus far this year - maybe more legislation will do the trick, eh?

[Manic!]

[QUOTE=Hondaracer;8871320]

not saying i have the answer, nor do i really care what the states do, let them implode upon themselves.
/QUOTE]

Then we will face a huge surge in American refugees. Already seen an big increase of Americans moving to Nanaimo.

[westopher]

And at the moment, not in the headlines, is that the USA has bought over 40 million more guns during Obama's presidency and the death rate per capita by guns is at a 40 year low. But, sensationalism wins the minds of those with the eyes closed. Meanwhile, over 1000 dead from drugs in BC alone thus far this year - maybe more legislation will do the trick, eh?

Ok well let’s start selling fentanyl at sporting goods stores and we will watch that number go down according to your logic.

[MarkyMark]

And at the moment, not in the headlines, is that the USA has bought over 40 million more guns during Obama's presidency and the death rate per capita by guns is at a 40 year low. But, sensationalism wins the minds of those with the eyes closed. Meanwhile, over 1000 dead from drugs in BC alone thus far this year - maybe more legislation will do the trick, eh?

Yeah I can go on some pro smoking websites and find articles explaining how everything is BS and it actually prevents lung cancer so I can feel better about it instead of what I see with my own eyes. Anyways enjoy the KoolAid.

[Blueboy222]

:troll:

[Zedbra]

Ok well let’s start selling fentanyl at sporting goods stores and we will watch that number go down according to your logic.

No, because people that do illegal drugs will continue to do such, that is human psyche. Legal gun owners isn't the issue, they are the most law-abiding citizens. That's logic and common facts that you may wish to validate or just argue your opinions - you choose.

[El Bastardo]

At first, I was a little concerned for our friend, el bastardo, but then saw the word "church" in the title............... gulolol.

El Bastardo has survived floods, storms, lightning, shootings, wildfires, even the wrath of jesus. He is the Chuck Norris of RS. Amen!

Hahaha. Deep thanks to you, MG. I mean that!

The shooting took place in a small town. I don't mean like Hope small, or Merritt small. It was a tiny tiny town. I can guarantee in a town like that you were either related to or were friends of one of the victims.
This place has nothing and is close enough to San Antonio to be considered a "suburb" but I'd expect that most folks in the community work and stay and have lived in the community for most of their lives. This is probably how it has been for generations because thats the nature of most towns like that.

The impact this will have on the psyche of the town will last for a long time. You'll see people move to get away from the bitter memory of it all, and for years that will be the only thing people know about the place. When you think of a place like Columbine or Newtown or even Waco, you don't think of the colleges or history or scenery. You think of the violence.

It is unfortunate that a place like this will have to live with the stain of this asshole's actions for a long time and, to be honest, it is also unfortunate that the systems put in place that would have REGULATED THIS GUY OUT OF BUYING THE WEAPONS HE ACQUIRED FAILED.

Its really fucked up. And it should have been avoided.

There is a larger discussion about gun control here, but the fact was that Devin Kelley should not have been legally able to own a gun as others have the right to do. The exact same situation occurred years ago when Seung-Hui Cho acquired the weapons he would use to go on to use in the Virginia Tech Massacre.

Keep in mind, these guys bought guns legally. And even if they couldn't have, they could find a way to buy them retail. Even if they were flagged by the background check (which they should have been) they could still get their fingers on a trigger.

When you think of people buying these guns for those mass shootings, your mind might go to visions of someone opening the trunk of their four door sedan while in some back alley and showing you an armory from which you choose your piece. Nah. Much simpler than that.

A guy convicted of a felony who would be barred from buying firearms can walk into a sporting goods store in Texas (also, Louisiana and many others) and press his nose against the case, point to a gun, and say "I want that one". When it comes to run the background check, he has his girl (standing next to him the whole time) say "Its for me... because... of reasons" and she'll cleanly pass the background check.
Its obvious hes buying the gun and shes going to hand it to them before they've even reached their car in the parking lot, and the guy behind the counter knows it too, but try having a guy making minimum wage ($7.25 per hour) stop a dude from getting that gun. He doesn't care about that shit.
Even if he stops him from buying this gun at Academy (https://www.academy.com/shop/browse/shooting/firearms), he can go to Cabela's (http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/browse/firearms/_/N-1114849), or Bass Pro Shop (http://www.basspro.com/shop/en/guns#facet:&productBeginIndex:0&facetLimit:&orderBy:&pageView:grid&minPrice:&maxPrice:&pageSize:&), or Field and Stream (https://www.fieldandstreamshop.com/products/guns-firearms.jsp) or wherever.

Its a complicated, messed up system. And I haven't even covered private sales (http://lawcenter.giffords.org/private-sales-in-texas/) which can legally take place in a Subway while both of you shake hands over meatball marinaras with only a little paperwork.

Oh, and threezero had mentioned in this thread about churches being "No Go" zones for firearms. You'd expect that, wouldn't you? They aren't always.

In Texas you have to post what is 30.06 notice or a 30.07 notice (https://www.govdocs.com/texas-gun-law-signage/) to legally people keep FROM conceal carrying or open carrying their weapons. You have the ASSUMPTION that people in a place WITHOUT the appropriate signage IS carrying. The only exception to that are businesses where 51% of their business (https://www.seton.com/texas-gun-signs-felony-notice-51-unlawful-handgun-ac1042.html) is the business of selling alcohol for immediate consumption like in a bar or club, and they still have to legally post the sign in order for that to be enforceable.

Just take a moment with that and think on that.

The system is fucked up and fragmented in many terrible ways. And I'm offering criticisms without offering solutions. It'll take many different people with a huge diversity of thought and opinion to expertly unfuck this.

The positive we can gleam from this is as follows -

When I go to the mall to buy bikini bottoms, or when I go to the grocery store to buy cucumbers, or when I go to the beach, I know I'm probably surrounded by people who are packing. People who wake up every day without that blank, dead stare that we see in the photos that GS8 posted. These people hold the power to end everyone else's life in their pocket, their ankle, the small of their back, or their purse. But they don't.
There are far more people ready to defend themselves or others, as did Stephen Willeford who brought Devin Kelley's spree to an end. Not that he wanted to have to live with that on his conscience.

It is heartening to know that many people WANT to do good and carry with them weapons with them as a last resort when someone's mental health and when the system fails us all.

https://i.imgur.com/qbBoclS.jpg

I wanted to include a picture of Willeford so that Kelley's dumbass stare isn't the only pic included in this thread.

[Lomac]

Well spoken as usual.

Also, miss you big guy :okay:

[MG1]

Me two.............

Will have a mini meat at Ikea Coquitlam and pretend you're there. Lomac? You owe me a coffee............. wait, damn it. It's free. Or is it? I heard they stopped doing $1.00 breakfasts, gulolol.

[hud 91gt]

No, because people that do illegal drugs will continue to do such, that is human psyche. Legal gun owners isn't the issue, they are the most law-abiding citizens. That's logic and common facts that you may wish to validate or just argue your opinions - you choose.Legal law abiding gun owners will still be able to own guns with stricter gun control. Has this point not been made?

[GLOW]

Me two.............

Will have a mini meat at Ikea Coquitlam and pretend you're there. Lomac? You owe me a coffee............. wait, damn it. It's free. Or is it? I heard they stopped doing $1.00 breakfasts, gulolol.

lomac will get you the coffee he owes you....only before 9am :troll: Kappa

[Manic!]

Another one. This one is kind of funny.

Husband and wife accidentally shot during church gun safety talk - BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42032637)

[westopher]

Legal law abiding gun owners will still be able to own guns with stricter gun control. Has this point not been made?

But how will he be able to argue about rights being taken away? Anyone who wants gun control only wants them banned so good guys can’t protect themselves!

[Obsideon]

This is a complete déjà vu of the Vegas thread.