[Ch28]

Took my parents into Kingsway Honda to get their new 2018 Civic today and found out that the car was damaged after they did all the paperwork. There was a noticeable scratch on the driver side between the B and C pillar, and another one above the gas cover on the rear driver side quarter panel. You can feel the scratch when you run your finger over the area. It was getting late because they've been there for 3 hours now (fucking bullshit) and they just wanted to get it over with, so they took a dealership credit to be used later.

After all that was done, the sales guy went over all the safety features with me one last time before we left, so I could teach my parents when we got home. It was at this point that my mom discovered a pretty noticeable dent on the passenger side of the front hood. My parents are obviously getting upset at this point, because they've spent so many hours there tonight trying to take delivery of a car that is supposed to be brand new, but it's got 2 scratch marks and a dent on the front hood.

The dealership was already closed at 8 and this happened around 8:30pm. The sales guy couldn't get a hold of a manager because they had left work, and told us to leave him the car keys and to come back in tomorrow to talk to his manager about it as he'd get us a new car.

Has anyone else ever encountered a situation like this (besides the RS Subaru guy) and how did they deal with it? Yes, the scratches are minor, and yes the dent is just a dent that can be popped back out, but the principle of the situation remains. We negotiated in good faith for the purchase of a brand new car and getting a "brand new" car with visible damage clearly isn't right.

I ended up taking a photo of the VIN # just to be sure.

[320icar]

Total bullshit, but I’d say sleep on it and give the dealership a chance to make it right

[lowside67]

It’s a Civic. They will get you another one and life carries on. Not worth stressing over.

It’s not like this is a special order car where you will have to wait another year for your next allocation.

Mark

[GabAlmighty]

Mistakes and accidents happen, such is life. Give them a chance to make things right and go from there.

[IMASA]

Any chance they leased the car?

https://mvsabc.com/glossary/cooling-off-period/

I recall something similar happened many years to my dad when they were looking to lease a Honda Odyssey as a company car. They signed all the paper work at ?Richmond Honda, went to the lot to get the car and they found out that one of the dealership customers had backed into the van. The dealership said too bad, that's your van, you signed the paper work.

They negotiated a bit, but the dealership wouldn't budge, so the my dad mentioned the 24hr cooling period, so he just left the car and walked away. The next day, the dealership manager called them to arrange them to get another van.

I think as long as you don't drive off with the car, you're fine.

And you guys talking about too bad, it's just a civic, move on, are you insane? I don't care if I'm buying a doughnut, cup of coffee or an Ipad. If I'm paying for something, then it better be in the expected condition that was agreed upon when the sale was made.

[lowside67]

And you guys talking about too bad, it's just a civic, move on, are you insane? I don't care if I'm buying a doughnut, cup of coffee or an Ipad. If I'm paying for something, then it better be in the expected condition that was agreed upon when the sale was made.
You need to re read my post. I said it’s only a Civic - as in it will be extremely easy for the dealership to replace the car. I didn’t say for a second he should take a scratched or dented new car.

-Mark

[Acura604]

assuming its BRAND NEW... NOT preowned...then yah, GET A NEW CAR/replacement. POST the dealership.

[Badhobz]

My brother in law got a mustang. It had damages on it from delivery. The dealership fixed it up under "lot damage" which I believe is billed to their insurance or pdi company. keep chasing the dealership they should take ownership of this with no issues.

[white rocket]

Give them a chance to make it right and if you don't like the remedy then ask to take a different car. If they get stand-off-ish then walk away.

Some dealers are genuine and will do what it takes to make the sale. Other dealers are slimey cunts who will lie their way through every deal. You have to determine which of these is the dealer you are dealing with.

[Ch28]

We understand it's "only a Civic" but it's the principle of the situation. We negotiated and paid cash for a brand new 2018 Civic, so it's not unreasonable to expect a brand new Civic, right?

Since my parents signed the bill of sale already, are they still able to walk away if Kingsway Honda refuses to get a new car and insists on getting the car fixed?

[teggy604]

forget getting it fixed. I never see that as a option unless they give you a big discount. They should give you another car period.

[brrrz]

Speaking for my dealership things like this can happen. Is it common? no but there is a surprising amount of people who touch the car from factory to the dealer and it is rarely the dealer who has done the damage.

A F150 comes out of the factory in Dearborn Michigan and travels ~4,000kms. Where the truck comes out of factory and put on a shipping truck then from the shipping truck onto a train then off the train to switch to another train to Washington where it will be put into another shipping truck and driven to here in the lower mainland. Once arrived its taken off that truck and put in a holding lot where another person puts it onto another shipping truck and drops it off at the dealer. Honestly its amazing how few vehicles show up with nothing on them. I can see why Audi has gone to wrapping every vehicle.

We have people who check in vehicles and also our own body shop that will fix any area of concern. If anything is missed which human error does happen then we will book in a time for the customer to bring the car back at their convince give them a free loaner and have the area of concern fixed at no cost to them and usually fill their tank for the in convince and good faith of the dealer. I'm sure most dealers would be the same.

[Dragon-88]

We understand it's "only a Civic" but it's the principle of the situation. We negotiated and paid cash for a brand new 2018 Civic, so it's not unreasonable to expect a brand new Civic, right?

Since my parents signed the bill of sale already, are they still able to walk away if Kingsway Honda refuses to get a new car and insists on getting the car fixed?

I'm pretty sure what that comment is getting at is the dealership has tonnes of these in stock. So the dealership shouldn't have any issues replacing it with a new one as its "only a civic" and not some CTO vehicle. So yes you should request for a new undamaged vehicle or walk to another dealership. In the end its up to the dealership to make the customer happy. Let them decide on what they want to do, but it seems from the post that they're waiting for the manager to make a decision and well at 8:30PM at night you probably wont have those decisions made until the next morning.

Hoping that it works out for you family..

[Expresso]

The wife's car had scratches when we took delivery. We arranged a time where the dealership took it and got it repaired. It looked brand new when it came back.

[Scotsman]

Give them a chance to fix it.

Think about all the other things that they may have fixed before it makes it to the showroom or noticed during PDI. Personally I rather know than not know.

[dared3vil0]

Holy fuck let them fix it. Putting a company on blast before they even have a chance to take care of it is a dick move. If they don't fix it, then roast them.

[Hondaracer]

I wouldn’t take that vehicle period, and if they refused to give me another one I’d get my money back and walk.

I don’t care if it was a 10k Nissan micra, if it’s new and has damage it’s unacceptavle.

Let us know what ends up happening

[originalhypa]

Holy fuck let them fix it. Putting a company on blast before they even have a chance to take care of it is a dick move. If they don't fix it, then roast them.

You drive Fords, so obviously your standards are much, much lower than the average car aficionado. But you have to be a dense, naive motherfucker to accept a brand new car with damage. On top of that, you would have to be an asshole to think that anyone should accept a damaged car that was sold as new.

[donjalapeno]

They will fix it. Ive seen this happen many times, sometimes we catch the damage before delivery and sometimes we don't. Just give them a chance. We do business with Kingsway Honda often and they are straight shooters.

Lots of new cars get damaged on transport or on the lot. Do they scrap them because they have a ding or two? no they fix it. Dealerships usually have arrangements with good body shops that deal with things like this.

[Hondaracer]

I wouldn’t take a fixed car either personally.

Especially in a case like this where the salesperson is showing you the car in the dark

[dared3vil0]

You drive Fords, so obviously your standards are much, much lower than the average car aficionado. But you have to be a dense, naive motherfucker to accept a brand new car with damage. On top of that, you would have to be an asshole to think that anyone should accept a damaged car that was sold as new.

Nobody said to accept the car. You would have to be a dense motherfucker to not understand that. Like I said, Let them fix the problem before blasting them. Also, how childish can one get? Hurr durr you drive this type of car therefore i'm going to judge you. Reading comprehension, it helps.

Also, why jump on me? Like 8 other people in the same damn thread said the same thing. Holy fuck

[Badhobz]

Horrrey fuccckkkk!!!

[prudz]

Can't believe nobody has said this yet. Post pictures and lets see these scratches. You took a picture of the Vin# surely you took a picture of the scratch OP. So many mental conclusions being thought up on how bad the damage is and how to approach it. No one should really be giving advice until we have all the facts and a picture of the damage would really clear this up. I'm curious just how bad it really is. Also, paintless dent removal takes a couple minutes to pop a single dent out.

[hud 91gt]

If I bought a brand new car, it better be brand new.

That's the cost of doing business.

[snowball]

Keep complaining until you get a new one but there's no saying that your new one wasn't damaged at one point during transport/in the lot.

If they give you a new one they'll fix the scratched one and sell it to someone else without telling them it was damaged. I worked at 3 dealerships and maybe 20% of the cars have some form of damage even before it comes off the truck.

[twitchyzero]

I thought most new cars get shipped in protective plastic over most of the body panels? won't save them from dents but some scuffs and scratches

I wouldn’t take a fixed car either personally.

Especially in a case like this where the salesperson is showing you the car in the dark

OP mentioned his parents were there for hours. Sales guy even stays past operating hours to get them on their way as they would've probably lost if just asked to go home and deal with it tmr. No need to jump to conclusions the dealer was being shady showing a car past 5pm.

[punkwax]

:Popcorn

[coneZONE]

I think you're lucky that you didn't receive the car that had a cracked engine block discovered during PDI .... :fuckthatshit:

[mb_]

Shit happens, give them a chance to fix their mistake.

For me whenever a business fucks up, I don't care too much about the fuck up itself but how they deal with it afterwards.

[Hehe]

If I were you, I wouldn't take that car. Period.

I paid for a brand new car, I expect everything to be brand spanking new. They can fix all they want on that car, but I won't be taking that same car.

If they expect me to take that car, then I expect to pay a "used" price on it.

Yes, shit happens but that's THEIR cost of doing business, not mine.

[LP700-4]

Amusing how everyone here thinks that if a car has the littlest of damage its automatically a used car and it might as well be scrapped. If a new car gets damaged and gets fixed its still a new car :rofl:

Chances are with all the lot damage that happens around dealerships your brand new car probably has been damaged and fixed in some way or another before you took delivery and you would never know.

[The Producer]

:

Chances are with all the lot damage that happens around dealerships your brand new car probably has been damaged and fixed in some way or another before you took delivery and you would never know.

x1000. Lot damage occurs all the time. This dealership blew it by missing the damage in the PPI and not getting it fixed before your parents even saw it.

If you've ever bought a new car, there's a very good chance it's had a scratch or bump fixed that you don't even know about.

Watch some of the youtube detailer PPI vids - they find repairs on new cars constantly.

As a business owner, please don't take your grievance to the internet until the other party has had a chance to make it right. It really serves no purpose. If they blow it again, fair game.

[dared3vil0]

x1000. Lot damage occurs all the time. This dealership blew it by missing the damage in the PPI and not getting it fixed before your parents even saw it.

If you've ever bought a new car, there's a very good chance it's had a scratch or bump fixed that you don't even know about.

Watch some of the youtube detailer PPI vids - they find repairs on new cars constantly.

As a business owner, please don't take your grievance to the internet until the other party has had a chance to make it right. It really serves no purpose. If they blow it again, fair game.

Be careful, Hypa will lose his shit for asking for time for a business to correct something before putting them on blast. :troll:

The thing people forget is like 90% of cars have had damage repaired at some point...

[Badhobz]

Keep complaining until you get a new one but there's no saying that your new one wasn't damaged at one point during transport/in the lot.

If they give you a new one they'll fix the scratched one and sell it to someone else without telling them it was damaged. I worked at 3 dealerships and maybe 20% of the cars have some form of damage even before it comes off the truck.

I deal a lot with the ILWU and trust me when I say I'm not surprised if 50% of these cars aren't dinged scratched or scuffed during transportation. Many of these new cars all require per delivery touchup and body work. It's just the way of this business.

If you ever see how the cars are loaded via rail and vessel you'll be amazed at how much abuse these panels can take.

[twitchyzero]

if they don't have to paint and make it perfect, then I wouldn't mind having it fixed, esp if you're set on that trim, color, options etc. and the next one won't be in for some time

[smoothie.]

Amusing how everyone here thinks that if a car has the littlest of damage its automatically a used car and it might as well be scrapped. If a new car gets damaged and gets fixed its still a new car :rofl:

Chances are with all the lot damage that happens around dealerships your brand new car probably has been damaged and fixed in some way or another before you took delivery and you would never know.

and this is why people like me have a huge distrust.

if the paint or panel is not factory original, and altered then it should be disclosed IMO.

this is why paint readings are done, all panels and edges should be checked on a new car.

detailing aside, a few microns is standard, but if the paint was burned and repainted, should be disclosed.

[1BADMR2]

You drive Fords, so obviously your standards are much, much lower than the average car aficionado. But you have to be a dense, naive motherfucker to accept a brand new car with damage. On top of that, you would have to be an asshole to think that anyone should accept a damaged car that was sold as new.

^This made me laugh, it has to be one of the top 5 most stupidest and ignorant statement posted so far based on brand purchase.

See what the dealership will do to correct the problem before falling apart like a crying little girl. When I took delivery of my old 2015 FORD F150, it had lineX overspray in a couple of areas and the dealer cleaned it up immediately but I didn't demand a new truck. There was a paint chip in the edge of the trunk when I had the k20 tuned recently in my MR2, I didn't demand a new paint job.

Of course you paid for something new and they should correct the issue and give you something in return for the inconvenience.

[68style]

My buddy has a body shop and he regularly paints bumpers and does work on brand new cars from the factory that haven't been sold yet... they get damaged all the time during shipping and being moved off of trucks. They just missed it in their PDI somehow, hope they fix it for ya.

[originalhypa]

I wouldn’t take a fixed car either personally.

Exactly.
You paid for a new car, you should get a new car. Not one that has a claim on it before it's hit 100km.
The bottom line is that the deal isn't what OP's parents signed for. If the dealer and his parents want to renegotiate the deal, then so be it. See if they'll take a repaired car, and offer them incentives if you need to. But the deal did change, and that's bad business.

Nobody said to accept the car. You would have to be a dense motherfucker to not understand that. Like I said, Let them fix the problem before blasting them. Also, how childish can one get? Hurr durr you drive this type of car therefore i'm going to judge you. Reading comprehension, it helps.

Also, why jump on me? Like 8 other people in the same damn thread said the same thing. Holy fuck

Be careful, Hypa will lose his shit for asking for time for a business to correct something before putting them on blast. :troll:

The thing people forget is like 90% of cars have had damage repaired at some point...


:victory::victory::victory:


How about this for judging someone based on their choice of vehicle.
https://sc.cnbcfm.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/files/2016/02/24/Screen%20Shot%202016-02-24%20at%209.33.29%20AM.png

When I see things like reliability ratings, and poor build quality, I tend to stay away from that kind of vehicle. But hey, it's your money. And the dealer service dep't has free wifi, so you can post about how awesome Fords are while waiting for your major repairs to be done. It's a win-win :fullofwin:


When I took delivery of my old 2015 FORD F150, it had lineX overspray in a couple of areas and the dealer cleaned it up immediately but I didn't demand a new truck. There was a paint chip in the edge of the trunk when I had the k20 tuned recently in my MR2, I didn't demand a new paint job.

A little lineX overspray is a lot different than a big dent and scratch.
As for the MR2, they should have fixed that. Or maybe you're just ok with being screwed over?

4Head

[Great68]

My Speed 3 had a couple scratches on it and about 300 kms on the the ODO from test drives but still sold as "new".

It was actually flagged when I did the acceptance inspection, and Signature said they would have a body shop on the island fix them.
Then they ended up giving me the run around, so I said fuck it and just put some touch-up on it, it wasn't really worth it especially if the repair was going to be shitty.

I got the car was 7K off sticker, so I wasn't complaining too hard. Wasn't worth the fight.

10 years later, there are so many dings & scratches from daily driving it that you can't even notice those old scratches anymore.

[MarkyMark]

I think my reaction would be dependant on the deal I was getting. If it was a huge discount and there were not many of the vehicles left in stock I'd be more willing to let them just fix it if it had been a good experience up to that point. If they were firm on the price and not budging then hell yeah I'd be going over the thing with a fine-tooth comb and telling them I want a perfect vehicle.

[Spoon]

We're not talking about an item that can be packaged and wrapped straight out of the factory. Other than the white car wrap to prevent scuffs and scratches, these things get shipped as is from another province/country with minimal protection. Your "new car" has been touched and driven by multiple people way before you. Unless you take delivery from the factory the minute it's built, there's no such thing as brand new in the sense some of you deem it to be.

[white rocket]

How about this for judging someone based on their choice of vehicle.
https://sc.cnbcfm.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/files/2016/02/24/Screen%20Shot%202016-02-24%20at%209.33.29%20AM.png

How the fcuk is Dodge at the bottom yet Ram is so close to the top? Their shitty quality is the same throughout their brand conglomerate. Interesting seeing GM and their subsidiaries closer to the top. I still find their product to be of cheap quality and even Buick, who at one point far exceeded the quality of other similar brands under the GM banner, is now cheap like the rest of them yet they maintain their higher rating. Interesting.

OP: keep us posted as I'm sure we're all curious at what the dealer is willing to offer you for compensation.

[dapperfied]

RS beat down crew assemble?

[beansbaxter]

RS beat down crew assemble?

https://i.imgur.com/6gpINjK.jpg

[Ch28]

We went back into the dealership last night to talk to it and I'm not surprised that they tried to renege on their terms of giving my parents a brand new car. The financial business manager came up and apologized for what happened, but said that they'll try to make things right so we leave happy or give us a refund and we can decide on whether to take our business elsewhere, but his goal was to keep us happy and retain our business.

They offered to loan a car to my parents while the car was in the bodyshop getting all the damage repaired. This didn't fly with us because we negotiated and paid for a brand new car and that's what we expected and all we wanted. At no point did they offer any sort of additional compensation as "you're already getting a good deal."

After an hour of back and forth and them disappearing into their offices and coming back out, they decided that they'll be able to get the same model and colour, but it'd take anywhere from 2-3 weeks for delivery. Obviously, that doesn't really work for us. We came into the dealership to take delivery of a car last night, not to sit around and wait until Christmas.

At this point, I got on the phone with another senior salesman from another Honda dealership to see if they had the same car we wanted. He confirmed they have 3 of the exact same car and that they'd be able to have the car ready for delivery by the next day if we came in tonight. I ran the numbers by him and he said he'd run it over with his sales manager and get back to me. He called me back a few minutes later and confirmed that they'll match the price as well as having our car ready for pick up the following day. I told him we're currently trying to settle the issue and I'd call him back in a bit.

We head back to the financial business manager and told him that we're going to take him up on his offer of a full refund, since the 2-3 weeks wait is too long. It's my parent's only car, so it's a huge inconvenience without one. At this point, the same guy that had told us earlier that he'd issue a full refund if he couldn't make us happy says that a refund is no longer possible. "The bank draft is already deposited, so there's no way of getting it back. If you want, then we'd issue you a dealership credit, but that's the best we can do." Obviously, I'm getting upset now, because he's going back on his word and I absolutely fucking despise liars.

I call the salesman at the other dealership back and he said that they screwed up, because they should've shown us the car prior to doing the paperwork and that the excuse of "the car wasn't ready" doesn't work. However, since the paperwork has already been done, then legally speaking, my parents do own the car and that there's nothing we can really do. At this point, the only thing we could do was leave them negative reviews across the board and file a complaint to the Vehicle Sales Authority of BC.

At this point, we're stuck with taking a damaged car, so I just told my parents that there really isn't much left to do. I consulted with the salesman from the other dealership, and in all honesty, if there was a way to help us then he'd probably tell us, cause he'd be gaining a sale. Luckily, our actual salesman is good. He was on the phone every now and then and said he was able to locate 2 of the exact same car that we want. He said that he'd try to get the car to us today, and said that if they don't have the car for delivery to us by Saturday night then they'll issue us a full refund.

I know there are two sides to a situation like this. There's the side that believes shit happens and just get it fixed and move on, but there's also the side that believes you should get what you paid for based on the principle of the situation. My parents would've been "ok" with the situation had they knocked the price down further to make up for the fact that the car came damaged. I honestly don't care if something happened to the car during transportation, because that's on you as the dealership to figure out. I paid for a brand new car so I better get a brand new car. There were two scratches on the car, with the biggest scratch being around 0.5 - 1cm long. The other one looked like a rock chip or something cause it was small, but both scratches were clearly felt when you run your fingers over it. You could feel that it cuts into the paint.

Some of you might think that I'm jumping the gun by 'putting the dealership on blast' before they had a chance to rectify the situation. That's a fair assessment, but you also have to remember that there are so many horror stories about bad dealerships or sleazy tactics that I didn't want to take the chance. That's why I made the post in hopes that others that have run into this situation could chime in with something helpful that I could use/do. All I know is that if they drove off the lot with the car then that's it, and there's nothing my parents could do. I'm not the first person to have this happen, and certainly won't be the last.

Our salesman has been awesome through this whole situation. We know it's not his fault that the car arrived damaged, but he said that he was our first point of contact and that it's his responsibility to do whatever he can to make sure we're good. It leaves me feeling conflicted, because the salesman has been great, but the financial business manager blatantly lying to us just fucking frustrates me.

[edit] Our salesman just updated me that the car arrived and is stocked in. He said there are 14 deliveries to do today, but they'll try their best to deliver the car to us tonight. If not tonight then definitely by tomorrow. I'll keep you all posted.

[edit2] Delivery time scheduled for 5:30pm tonight. Will keep y'all posted

[GS8]

How the fcuk is Dodge at the bottom yet Ram is so close to the top? Their shitty quality is the same throughout their brand conglomerate. Interesting seeing GM and their subsidiaries closer to the top. I still find their product to be of cheap quality and even Buick, who at one point far exceeded the quality of other similar brands under the GM banner, is now cheap like the rest of them yet they maintain their higher rating. Interesting.

OP: keep us posted as I'm sure we're all curious at what the dealer is willing to offer you for compensation.

To be fair, cheap quality and dependability aren't necessarily tied together. GM products have always been priced lower than their competition but take a hit on materials quality and overall presentation. But many aren't bothered as they'd rather save money both in short and long terms (purchase & dependability). GM interiors aren't good compared to their competition but their motors are still pretty stout and not overly complicated.

[subordinate]

No pictures of the damage?

Good to hear Kingsway Honda rectifying the problem. I've been there browsing and had good service, glad to hear the salesman doing his job to fix it.

[Ch28]

No pictures of the damage?

Good to hear Kingsway Honda rectifying the problem. I've been there browsing and had good service, glad to hear the salesman doing his job to fix it.

Pictures aren't good because the lighting wasn't the best. I looked at the pictures after I took them and it really doesn't show you as well as seeing it with your eyes. :okay:

[ssjGoku69]

"The bank draft is already deposited, so there's no way of getting it back. If you want, then we'd issue you a dealership credit, but that's the best we can do."


They can't issue a refund because they deposited the bank draft? Does that not make sense to anyone else?

That can be rectified by writing a cheque or they write you a bank draft for pick-up the following day.

[underscore]

How the fcuk is Dodge at the bottom yet Ram is so close to the top? Their shitty quality is the same throughout their brand conglomerate. Interesting seeing GM and their subsidiaries closer to the top. I still find their product to be of cheap quality and even Buick, who at one point far exceeded the quality of other similar brands under the GM banner, is now cheap like the rest of them yet they maintain their higher rating. Interesting.

I might be wrong, but those vehicle ratings only cover the first few months/years of ownership, which usually isn't when the common problems arise (unless something is *really* bad). That JD Power chart doesn't make much sense, if it's problems per 100 vehicles then it looks like every single new vehicle has at least one problem, possibly two? And how severe are the problems? I don't give a shit if they forgot to install a dust cap, but if the transmissions are blowing up that's an actual concern.

[Hondaracer]

a little bit of shady shit by the sounds of it, honestly enough to make me not go there if i was looking for another Honda.

[prudz]

Pictures aren't good because the lighting wasn't the best. I looked at the pictures after I took them and it really doesn't show you as well as seeing it with your eyes. :okay:

Small enough a camera couldn't catch the damage. I'm going to say your story seems like a complete overreaction. Especially with how far they were willing to go to try and make your family happy.

Post the pictures and let the forum be the judge.

[ak1to]

Slightly different but I thought I'd mention it as well;

When I went to pickup my then new Triumph from British Italian Motorcycles, I noticed a scratch in the gas tank right before picking it up which wasn't there before.

Fortunately the sales person I was dealing with promised they'd make things right and ordered me a brand new tank. It did take a while to get here from the UK but I got I resolved.

Good to hear the sales person is also making things right for you.

[Ch28]

Came in to inspect the new vehicle they're replacing our damaged one with and this is what we're met with. This is the rear bumper passenger side.

https://i.imgur.com/O1xdGRw.jpg

[subordinate]

these guys for real??

[Hondaracer]

Small enough a camera couldn't catch the damage. I'm going to say your story seems like a complete overreaction. Especially with how far they were willing to go to try and make your family happy.

Post the pictures and let the forum be the judge.

I don’t understand this sentiment of it being an over reaction whatsoever..

They are buying a BRAND NEW vehicle, paying in cash, and it’s an over reaction to not accept damage to the body that has to be fixed by human hands?

A vehicle that came off the assembly line and was painted by a machine is now going to be touched up by some guy at a body shop and that’s acceptable?

Car salesmen are all scum, two of my friends temporarily worked as salesmen and even the “nice guys” have all the incentive in the world to fuck over customers because they make a cut on every extra, option, sales solution they can push.

So a guy is willing to pay cash for whatever, a civic, a Ferrari, a pinto, expect it to be without damage and that’s over reacting?

Here’s tens of thousands of dollars kind salesperson, please shit down my throat once you’re done depositing my cheque!

[white rocket]

At this point, the same guy that had told us earlier that he'd issue a full refund if he couldn't make us happy says that a refund is no longer possible. "The bank draft is already deposited, so there's no way of getting it back. If you want, then we'd issue you a dealership credit, but that's the best we can do."

The absolute worst. I fcuking hate that kind of sleaziness. Unfortunately that's typical Business Manager behavior. They're always the bad guy while the salesman is the good guy going to bat for you. It's all BS though. I hope it works out for your parents though and you all walk away satisfied.

<-----in for results

ninjaedit: the replacement is damaged as well? :fulloffuck:

[twitchyzero]

probably a manager spitting in your drink/food, when you turned down the 2-3 week wait for a new vehicle. They ran back and forth because they're in the back discussing a strategy on how to get rid of you guys.

I'm conflicted, because you stood your ground for principle...but it looks like it's blowing back...to fix what was a minor annoyance is now going to cost you a lot of you and your family's time.

I'm going to get failed but in the grand scheme of things, it sounds like it's only going to be destined as a commuter car for the parents that isn't even going to have that much sentimental value. Unless it's really going to be babied by a car enthusiast, there are bigger issues I would rather focus on.

5 in 5 rule: if it's not gonna matter in 5 years, don't spend more than 5 minutes losing sleep over it. At some point, you should ask if it's worth it.

later on you'll look back and go wow...I went through all that trouble and grief just to be 'right'...for a few scratches on a Civic...that was going to get fixed or replaced by a new car in a few weeks.

good luck.

[underscore]

This kind of thing makes me wonder, if they're missing this kind of stuff on brand new vehicles, how much are they missing on used vehicles?

[Matsuda]

ugh I feel for ya, I have a new car coming hopefully next week and I'm going to have to my due dilligence and check the car before I drive off the lot

[twitchyzero]

a little bit of shady shit by the sounds of it, honestly enough to make me not go there if i was looking for another Honda.
agreed regarding the bank draft part

but didn't you say it was the norm for new shoebox condos to have caulk cracking, nails popping out, squeaky floors and buyers should just accept the reality of contractors ain't got time to go back and fix them up?

this isn't that different

[nsx042003]

definitely not cool, even the replacement has damage?

what happened to their tech who does PDI?

[Hehe]

I think at this stage, maybe the OP should get in touch with Honda Canada?

Let them know that you are also bringing the case to CBC and CC the people in the dealership.

I'm sure that would catch their attention.

[yray]

whos the guy unloading the cars from the truck :mindblown:

[smoothie.]

bring on another replacement for the replacement

this is pretty much why the last two cars bought within my family I inspected as best I could before letting them sign.

if it doesn't work out, for sure contact local news "on your side" people as well as drop this guy a line: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aziz-ahamed-64a756132/

[68style]

I don't think there's ANY grounds for contacting a news on your side person for a couple of damaged vehicles that you didn't take delivery of and that they are trying to fix the situation for... last time I checked those services weren't for "I was inconvenienced waiting for things to be right" situations LOL

Bad luck, but it's not like they're fucking you over. It's not like they want this to happen either, you're a complete waste of time to them at this point from a profit margin perspective. It's just bad luck.

[1BADMR2]

A little lineX overspray is a lot different than a big dent and scratch.
As for the MR2, they should have fixed that. Or maybe you're just ok with being screwed over?

4Head

Actually he did get the chip fixed and I even supplied the touch up paint. I didn't even get mad. OMG mind blown!!!!!

Sounds like the salesperson and business office are being dicks now. Cars get damaged and, behind the scenes, they get repaired with out customers even knowing.

[Berzerker]

Just a hypothetical here.... what if.... The dealership caught the damage to the original civic, and repaired it prior to your purchase. They have no obligation to disclose this. You then buy the vehicle, repaired from dealership, and go on and live a long happy life with your new civic.

No different than letting them fix the damage after you purchased it. Either way it was a fix up. You think they are going to declare to the next person they fixed the scratches? You think the next person will even know?

Berz out.

[Hehe]

I don't think there's ANY grounds for contacting a news on your side person for a couple of damaged vehicles that you didn't take delivery of and that they are trying to fix the situation for... last time I checked those services weren't for "I was inconvenienced waiting for things to be right" situations LOL

Bad luck, but it's not like they're fucking you over. It's not like they want this to happen either, you're a complete waste of time to them at this point from a profit margin perspective. It's just bad luck.

I think it's not about the fact of dealership delivering cars with damages but rather the lack of willingness to take responsibility from the dealership.

If the dealership has made clear with full disclosure about the condition of the car as well as actively pursuing ways to solve the discovered problem fair and square, I doubt anyone would have a second thought.

But they are basically asking OP to take a car (and incompetent enough to actually have damage on the second attempt)and not budge. Mind you, this is for something worth 20K+. Heck, if I encounter any problem at a restaurant on a plate worth just $10, the restaurant would replace it with a new dish and even give me discount on it, let alone something that's worth 2000times as much.

[DragonChi]

At this point it would be reasonable to ask for a refund on your PDI. It was clearly not performed in both cases. You could ask for accessories on top for your hassle.

According to Toyota's Pre-Delivery Inspection (PDI), a paint inspection is on it. As their competitor, they should have been able to do the same.

http://pictures.dealer.com/d/donvalleynorthtoyotatc/0044/441a7cf42c27828b4b5f196dd7d287f8x.jpg

That second scratch looks like a gouge though, is it right down to the metal? If it is, I would ask for a third replacement. lol. It might actually be two weeks by the time you get a that civic. Either that, or get the first one repainted.

[prudz]

So which scratch is worse? The original or the new one? Solution, bus pass. Never worry about a scratch again.

[Hondaracer]

CALL FUCKIN OLSEN ON YOUR SIDE!!!

Lol jk, my replying to threads is all fucked up on iPhone.. when I hit reply it’s just blank and I can’t quote anyone..

Twitchyzero, it’s a fair comparison in what I said for buying a unit, however, I’d relate uncaulked counter tops and a little drywall touch up etc. more so to having a new car delivered dirty or or with a flat tire, easily rectifiable and doesn’t effect the overall end product.

With scratches like this I’d say it’s more like having a nice gouge on your fridge door or a dent in the front of your oven, a comestic issue to be sure, however, not easily repairable and something that absolutely should be addressed

[teggy604]

At this point it would be reasonable to ask for a refund on your PDI. It was clearly not performed in both cases. You could ask for accessories on top for your hassle.

According to Toyota's Pre-Delivery Inspection (PDI), a paint inspection is on it. As their competitor, they should have been able to do the same.

http://pictures.dealer.com/d/donvalleynorthtoyotatc/0044/441a7cf42c27828b4b5f196dd7d287f8x.jpg

That second scratch looks like a gouge though, is it right down to the metal? If it is, I would ask for a third replacement. lol. It might actually be two weeks by the time you get a that civic. Either that, or get the first one repainted.


Yah I agree. That is a gouge and no way in hell did that not cut through the paint. I bet you there was prob a worst damage and they fixed that but they missed the gouge. LOL.

When I work for dealerships if the customers are picky we made sure the second vehicle has no flaws. PDI should have caught that, unless they live by the motto "See nothing say nothing"

[mb_]

Lol from my experience, the people with more tendencies to be sleazy in a dealership are business office manager(s)

There's also a chance that the damage happened after the PDI.

[68style]

I think it's not about the fact of dealership delivering cars with damages but rather the lack of willingness to take responsibility from the dealership.

If the dealership has made clear with full disclosure about the condition of the car as well as actively pursuing ways to solve the discovered problem fair and square, I doubt anyone would have a second thought.

But they are basically asking OP to take a car (and incompetent enough to actually have damage on the second attempt)and not budge. Mind you, this is for something worth 20K+. Heck, if I encounter any problem at a restaurant on a plate worth just $10, the restaurant would replace it with a new dish and even give me discount on it, let alone something that's worth 2000times as much.

Where are you getting this idea from?

They offered him a loaner for a few days while they fix the damage... he won't budge because he doesn't want a car that's had paintwork done on it... but that's actually absurd because, as Berz and others have pointed out already, dealerships fix tonnes of damage on cars before they're delivered and you never ever even know about it... so what difference does it make just because you know about it now?

As far as I'm concerned, the only inconvenience is time wasted while it's at the bodyshop. Does that warrant compensation? Maybe... personally I'd not care as long as it's right when I get it or I'd ask to transfer one in from another dealer... which they did... but that one had damage too... Bad luck.

I have no idea why he didn't just wait a few days for the car to get the repairs made to it. It's not a big deal and it happens all the time without anyone ever knowing about it.

[BaoTurbo]

Just a hypothetical here.... what if.... The dealership caught the damage to the original civic, and repaired it prior to your purchase. They have no obligation to disclose this. You then buy the vehicle, repaired from dealership, and go on and live a long happy life with your new civic.

No different than letting them fix the damage after you purchased it. Either way it was a fix up. You think they are going to declare to the next person they fixed the scratches? You think the next person will even know?

Berz out.

This can likely be possible as well.

I just took delivery of a 2018 Honda Civic LX at Richmond Honda and I am in the car industry myself. Not defending them but I did see a scratch on the car when I took delivery, however I knew these things happen since these cars pass through many hands. If it's minor I would want it fixed but none more since I would probably get another scratch elsewhere down the road.


Good luck and I hope it gets resolved in the end.

[twitchyzero]

I think it's not about the fact of dealership delivering cars with damages but rather the lack of willingness to take responsibility from the dealership.


how's the dealership not taking responsibility?

1. client notices issues
2. client notifies dealership
3. dealership offers fix while providing loaner car
4. client denies
5. dealership wants to make client happy, offers a brand new one with identical specs/options with a 2-3 lead time
6. client still would not budge

I'm super anal OCD and have been down that rabbit hole...with many cases similar to OP's

got a nice TV with dead pixels, said I will not take any defects with a flagship product. Samsung said few dead pixels (which wasn't even noticable at my viewing dsitance) is not grounds for warranty. dozens of phone calls, e-mails, even made noise to their CEO and finally we got a on-site warranty on the way. The second panel had dirty screen door effect. Am I supposed to tell the repair guys to come back with a 3rd panel?

I've learned to just live without 100% perfection...inanimated object or otherwise...not worth stressing out over. I encourage OP to do the same, with the exception if that this is a car that he's 'gifting to his parents for retirement or sthing equally sentimental.

[gilly]

What if the civic is a lease vehicle? They will get charged for those scratches when they return the car. This is unacceptable for a brand new car.

[Spoon]

If the tables were turned and you were selling your car to the dealership with undeclared repairs. I'm sure most of the people here will have no problem telling the dealer that the car's never been in an accident. :banghead:

[originalhypa]

So many fails in this thread. It's like a twisted pantie convention. This city becomes a whiny little bitch fest come December 1st.

I still side with the OP though.
:fullofwin:

[Lomac]

So many fails in this thread. It's like a twisted pantie convention. This city becomes a whiny little bitch fest come December 1st.

I still side with the OP though.
:fullofwin:

You're just a grumpy old man, unable to cope with being around a bunch of young 'uns.

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/grandpa_simpson_yelling_at_cloud10.jpg


:love:

[hud 91gt]

I'm sorry. Car's are expensive. If the dealership want's to fix the damaged vehicle before I own it and I don't notice discolouration between panels. So be it. But if I spend 30k+ on a new vehicle and see damage. I'm expecting a new vehicle, not an open box item on the discount shelf at future shop.

Maybe it's because i've personally never bought a new vehicle, but I went through the whole process with my fiancé. I went over the vehicle and saw a few specs on the paint. By the time she signed the paper work, those specs were gone and it was as new. A new paint job is not new. It will never be the same as it was at the factory.

BTW, the second vehicle damage looks like damage early on. I'd assume a rub like that could only happen when the paint was still quite soft. Pre-PDI

[LP700-4]

I don't think anyone's disagreeing with OP here. He bought a new car, so he should receive a car in new car condition. Im sure we all understand that part. There were defects/damage on his car, therefore the dealer promised to fix it at no charge along with providing a loaner vehicle so the customer would have transportation before the car comes back in perfect condition. The inconvenience? Maybe having to drive to the dealer twice. Big deal.

Yet OP and everyone here thinks that's completely outrageous and the dealer might as well be giving them a used unit.

[bcrdukes]

Things I have learned from reading this thread:

1. Don't buy a new car. Ever.
2. hypa is getting shit on. (Ouch.)
3. Probably one of the most dramatic threads for 2017. It's been a pretty dull year on RS.
4. Make me mod again.

To the OP - good luck on whatever the outcome may be.

[twitchyzero]

reading a thread on Friday night about some scratches on a Civic that has gone 4 pages :okay:

[Scotsman]

Ch28,

Any update?

Hopefully it's all getting resolved to your family's satisfaction

[originalhypa]

Things I have learned from reading this thread:

1. Don't buy a new car. Ever.
2. hypa is getting shit on. (Ouch.)
3. Probably one of the most dramatic threads for 2017. It's been a pretty dull year on RS.
4. Make me mod again.

To the OP - good luck on whatever the outcome may be.

:D

Don’t cry for me, Argentina. Besides,it’s nothing more than the angry ramblings of a bunch of snowflake millennials who miss their mommies.

Except Lomac, he’s awesome.
:fullofwin:

[kross9]

better question which car that comes off of the boat doesn't get a form of repair... should ask to see the PDI work too when it went thru service. Damaged wheel bearing scratched wheels, sidewalls gauged? the list goes on.

Regardless of how new your car is and how expensive it'll always be the same.

Be it a Civic or a RR Wraith.

And that matters is how the dealership takes care of it prior to delivery or after with the customer.

[conandoyle]

Just ask for the new brand car, problem solved. Make sure odo is under 100km. If you are picky I would say under 50km

[twitchyzero]

Just ask for the new brand car, problem solved. Make sure odo is under 100km. If you are picky I would say under 50km

did you read anything past the first post?

[conandoyle]

did you read anything past the first post?

Yep, he got another damaged car for replacement.

He can
1. Request another brand new civic until its brand new without any damage.
2. Take all the deposit back and try another dealer
3. Make a complaint to The Vehicle Sales Authority of BC

If it's me, I will skip the 1 step, and do 2 and 3.

[DragonChi]

LOL, I don't think you did read the whole thread.

The dealer is refusing a refund because they signed papers already.

Still waiting on a opdate though.

I can see a third replacement car being ordered. Although, dealerships give discounts for damages to their cars, it's not unheard of.

[Hondaracer]

a buddy of mine that just bought a brand new 4 runner said Toyota laid out the whole situation of getting a refund for him up to 30 days after taking possession on the vehicle, virtually regardless of the scenario..

not sure if it was just a smoke screen or what but not getting the money back right away after that first discussion really puts the dealer in bad light imo

[Ch28]

My parents ended up going back to the original car with the scratches and hood dent. They already fixed the hood dent when we went back the next day, and it looked perfectly fine with no marks left on it. Parents decided that they could wait for another car, because the replacement car was obviously scratched the fuck up, but it wouldn't guarantee that they'd get one without defects. I laid out the pros and cons of the situation and they just decided that it wasn't worth the hassle.

The dealership agreed to fix the scratches, provide a courtesy car while it's in the shop, lifetime oil change for $470 (down from $799), an additional tank of gas when the first tank goes empty, and 2 more of the Honda wash kits.

We understand that shit happens, but it's how you deal with it that really determines whether you're instilling confidence with us. Had the replacement car been brand new like it was agreed upon then it would've cost them less money. It was really how the financial business manager went back on his word 15-20 minutes after telling us that he'd be able to get us a refund that really fucking pissed us off. I'm sure that most, if not all, of you would feel the same if you were in our shoes.

I have to admit that our salesman, Travis, did a great job at correcting the situation given that he's only a salesman. There's only so much you can do when you have to ask your superiors to help 'fix' the situation that was no fault of yours.

Was our car buying experience enjoyable? Fuck no.
Could they have treated us without lying (business manager)? Absolutely.
Are we glad that we finally got our car and got this over and done with? Definitely.

[twitchyzero]

$500 up front for oil changes...wow
at least it sounds like your parents will keep it for good

[Ch28]

$500 up front for oil changes...wow
at least it sounds like your parents will keep it for good

They never cared to look for an honest mechanic (heard too many horror stories of bad mechanics) so they always bring the car back to the dealership. The lifetime oil changes will pay itself off in a few years, so they decided to go for it.

[1BADMR2]

Sounds like the scratches and dent were easily removed on the original car. Happy to hear that the salesman and dealership stepped up for the inconvenience and BS in the new car buying experience. I still think they could have done better by giving your parents a few free services but what is done is done.

Most business office managers are crooks especially with upselling add ons when signing the paperwork (ie: extended warranty pricing, rust protection, etc.)

[underscore]

They never cared to look for an honest mechanic (heard too many horror stories of bad mechanics) so they always bring the car back to the dealership. The lifetime oil changes will pay itself off in a few years, so they decided to go for it.

Most of the horror stories of bad mechanics that I've heard/dealt with myself are from dealerships. I wouldn't let a dealership touch my vehicle unless absolutely necessary, but then again I don't own anything with a warranty I have to worry about being voided by a sleazy dealer.

[SupraTTturbo2jz]

you have no idea how many "brand new" cars I fix daily that has paint and dent damage straight from factory and off the transport trucks. Some dealerships care to check them and repair them before selling. These are bmw M cars, porches, mercedes, and other high end models in the $100-$200k plus bracket. They hide it all from the consumer unless you catch them and if you know what you're looking for... only Some have a keen eye on these things

In the end, its your hard earned money, doesnt matter if its a civic. Shoulda walked out until they at least fix it or get you something else. They dyin for sales in the winter and will do anything

[smoothie.]

My parents ended up going back to the original car with the scratches and hood dent. They already fixed the hood dent when we went back the next day, and it looked perfectly fine with no marks left on it. Parents decided that they could wait for another car, because the replacement car was obviously scratched the fuck up, but it wouldn't guarantee that they'd get one without defects. I laid out the pros and cons of the situation and they just decided that it wasn't worth the hassle.

The dealership agreed to fix the scratches, provide a courtesy car while it's in the shop, lifetime oil change for $470 (down from $799), an additional tank of gas when the first tank goes empty, and 2 more of the Honda wash kits.

We understand that shit happens, but it's how you deal with it that really determines whether you're instilling confidence with us. Had the replacement car been brand new like it was agreed upon then it would've cost them less money. It was really how the financial business manager went back on his word 15-20 minutes after telling us that he'd be able to get us a refund that really fucking pissed us off. I'm sure that most, if not all, of you would feel the same if you were in our shoes.

I have to admit that our salesman, Travis, did a great job at correcting the situation given that he's only a salesman. There's only so much you can do when you have to ask your superiors to help 'fix' the situation that was no fault of yours.

Was our car buying experience enjoyable? Fuck no.
Could they have treated us without lying (business manager)? Absolutely.
Are we glad that we finally got our car and got this over and done with? Definitely.

Finance managers are the scummiest, thats where money is made. The two I've dealt with recently where the most straight up though, :fulloffuck:

I wouldve gotten the oil changes for free after that bs.

[Funnel]

It's out of topic but it seems everyone is bashing Finance/business managers.

For most of dealerships I've been working with, business manager can't do shit. Most of the final decision will be made by Sales manager or higher such as General Sales manager, General Manager, or even dealer principal. Business managers are often the bad guy to tell customers the decision, then sales/sales manager will come out and resolve everything if customers do not agree with business manager.

As for up selling, customers have all the right to say no. It's just like MacDonald to upsize your value meal. Of course there are always bad practice which some business manager will squeeze the product when you sign the agreement. If you have question in mind, read the agreement before signing, most agreement will state that all insurance, warranty are optional. Those products are not required to enter the contract.
Even if your parents do not read, there is always 10-20 days to cancel most of the add-on product that the dealership can not say no.

To the OP: glad to hear everything has been sorted out. Not saying all dealerships are good but at least bigger dealership tend to care more about their reputation than small broker or used car dealers.

[kross9]

Even if your parents do not read, there is always 10-20 days to cancel most of the add-on product that the dealership can not say no.
.

Most actually have a clause in the written agreement once you sign that 30 days is null and void and leaving you S.O.L if you change your mind..

Each dealer might be different, but thats why its always important to read anything you are signing.

[CorneringArtist]

It's out of topic but it seems everyone is bashing Finance/business managers.

For most of dealerships I've been working with, business manager can't do shit. Most of the final decision will be made by Sales manager or higher such as General Sales manager, General Manager, or even dealer principal. Business managers are often the bad guy to tell customers the decision, then sales/sales manager will come out and resolve everything if customers do not agree with business manager.

As for up selling, customers have all the right to say no. It's just like MacDonald to upsize your value meal. Of course there are always bad practice which some business manager will squeeze the product when you sign the agreement. If you have question in mind, read the agreement before signing, most agreement will state that all insurance, warranty are optional. Those products are not required to enter the contract.
Even if your parents do not read, there is always 10-20 days to cancel most of the add-on product that the dealership can not say no.

To the OP: glad to hear everything has been sorted out. Not saying all dealerships are good but at least bigger dealership tend to care more about their reputation than small broker or used car dealers.

+1 on business managers being shit. They seem to be the ones most responsible for customer complaints when the car is picked up, and the heat ends up on the service department only to turn it around and tell them to deal with the business office. There are a few out there that have an idea of what they're doing, but way too many overpromise or straight up lie about what they've sold to a customer.