[welfare]

Interesting turn of events for Scheer and the conservative party. I hope his decision doesn't break up support :okay:

Sen. Lynn Beyak kicked out of Conservative caucus after refusing to remove 'racist' comments online - Politics - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/politics/lynn-beyak-kicked-out-conservative-caucus-1.4474130)

[Manic!]

But I thought she wasn't a racist.

https://www.revscene.net/forums/713343-senator-lynn-beyak-says-first-nations-should-give-up-status-cards.html

[Berzerker]

Why is the word Racist even being used. Fucking people throw that word around like shit and hope it sticks. Being Opinionated isn't being racist. Having an opinion on a topic that just because they happen to be of another race doesn't make you a racist. Fuck off people.

Berz out.

[welfare]

I don't think anyone (in the media spotlight anyways) was calling her racist. It was the comments on her support page, from individuals, that were seen as racist.

I gotta say, while I understand Scheer's decision, I'm pretty disappointed in it.
There's been no communication with the country on this matter. That's ultimately what does and will fuel racism about it, IMO.

Conservative social policy strives for equal treatment of all people by their government. That's what I believe in. That's what attracted me to the party.

Shoot, didn't see the previous thread on Beyak. Would have just updated that one. If someone wants to merge them, it's all good. Or don't.
My apologies

[mikemhg]

Why is the word Racist even being used. Fucking people throw that word around like shit and hope it sticks. Being Opinionated isn't being racist. Having an opinion on a topic that just because they happen to be of another race doesn't make you a racist. Fuck off people.

Berz out.

I disagree Berz. Yes, she is being opinionated, however her "opinion" carries a racist connotation.

As a member of Senate she should be held to any criticism levied against her based on her posting and refusal to delete such comments. For example:

"I'm no anthropologist but it seems every opportunistic culture, subsistence hunter/gatherers seeks to get what they can for no effort. There is always a clash between industrial/organized farming culture that values effort as opposed to a culture that will sit and wait until the government gives them stuff,"

Come on man, you really think a member of senate should support such comments? This is the problem with the Conservative party, they walk like ducks, quack like ducks, but when called out on it, they love to cry "Well I'm not racist!".

Why do these characters feel the need to even speak on such subject? You're a blonde white woman from who knows where, what knowledge or incite can you realistically provide regarding the impact of residential schools? I liken such comments to those Republican Senators/House Members who try to insinuate that slavery "wasn't all that bad", or "they came here by choice!".

Jesus, these are hot button topics that infuriates a group of people when spoken in a dismissive manner as she did. Why do they feel the need to insert their thoughts, knowing full well the potential blow back? What real utility did she get other than blowing the proverbial "dog whistle" to her constituents? Then cry foul and complain when it blows up in her face? Give me a break, she should suffer the consequences of her actions, or lack there of.

[Harvey Specter]

But yet Trump gets away with calling Sen. Warren "Pochahontas". What bizarre times we live in.

[bcrdukes]

Damn. And here I get banned on Revscene for using the "C" word.

[Hondaracer]

Lets just bury our heads in the sand and keep cutting cheques to reservations

[welfare]

If it wasn't clear, I wholeheartedly agree with her views on ending status, and really all privileges bestowed by the government. These are enablements, IMO.

My personal view is that the reparations or privileges are more damaging, to relations and the individuals themselves, than the original violation that they're attempting to make up for.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Lets just bury our heads in the sand and keep cutting cheques to reservations

Agreed! Society is so stupid now. Basically everyone needs to be babied and if you say anything that's remotely mean but the truth you are against their gender, race, sexuality, skin color, the way the speak ,their age etc etc. Is like we are no different than living in a communist gov. In fact they have more freedom of speech than we do lol.

I used to joke with a really good friend of mine who is a Filipino and as we all know when they speak they have an accent. Which is pretty normal. Sometimes we would joke with each other and I would pretend to use the same accent when talking to him. I mean he doesn't mind one bit as he copy my accent too. One day we were at a food court chatting and eating. I started copying his accent and some lady came over and started yelling and screaming saying who I am racist all that crap. My friend just tell the lady to stfu and leave us alone.

[welfare]

But yet Trump gets away with calling Sen. Warren "Pochahontas". What bizarre times we live in.

You do realize why he calls her that, right?
The fact that she lied about being part Cherokee on her application to a firm to gain priority.

He's calling her out on it. Mocking her. As he should.
And that's the problem. People just look at the word and the narrative, not any further, and assume racism

[welfare]

Why do these characters feel the need to even speak on such subject? You're a blonde white woman from who knows where, what knowledge or incite can you realistically provide regarding the impact of residential schools? I liken such comments to those Republican Senators/House Members who try to insinuate that slavery "wasn't all that bad", or "they came here by choice!".

Jesus, these are hot button topics that infuriates a group of people when spoken in a dismissive manner as she did. Why do they feel the need to insert their thoughts, knowing full well the potential blow back? What real utility did she get other than blowing the proverbial "dog whistle" to her constituents? Then cry foul and complain when it blows up in her face? Give me a break, she should suffer the consequences of her actions, or lack there of.

Try doing a little research into her background before you pass judgment.
You know, look a little further than the color of her skin OpieOP

[Manic!]

Someone explain to how this is not racist.

From her site:
“If you took a bunch of Amish farmers from southern Ontario and banished them to a reserve in northern Ontario, within a year they would have built all of their members a new home, a new church and barns for every homestead… At the same time the aboriginals relocated to Amish country near Kitchener would have burned down the house and left the fields to gully and rot.”




You do realize why he calls her that, right?
The fact that she lied about being part Cherokee on her application to a firm to gain priority.

He's calling her out on it. Mocking her. As he should.
And that's the problem. People just look at the word and the narrative, not any further, and assume racism

Do you even know the story of Pocahontas?

[twitchyzero]

she looks like a redneck but from what the article described it doesn't seems like her comments were meant to be malicious..but I can see why others certainly have their jimmies rustled

I think we need more dialogues to address the 'crisis' than to just keep throwing money at the problem

[welfare]

Someone explain to how this is not racist.

The comment may be racist, yes. But that doesn't mean there isn't any truth to it. Or that the anger isn't valid.

How do you expect people to feel when billions of dollars are partitioned annually, yet the problems seem to be getting worse?
And worse yet, questioning the policies makes you a bad person.




Do you even know the story of Pocahontas?

Nope. And I doubt he does either. All he probably knew when he gave her that moniker was that it was an infamous female Indian and that the left would react with complete hypocrisy.

[Manic!]

The comment may be racist, yes. But that doesn't mean there isn't any truth to it. Or that the anger isn't valid.

How do you expect people to feel when billions of dollars are partitioned annually, yet the problems seem to be getting worse?
And worse yet, questioning the policies makes you a bad person.

Why do you care where the money goes you don't even pay taxes.


Nope. And I doubt he does either. All he probably knew when he gave her that moniker was that it was an infamous female Indian and that the left would react with complete hypocrisy.



Being stupid is not an excuse.

[welfare]

Jesus, these are hot button topics that infuriates a group of people when spoken in a dismissive manner as she did. Why do they feel the need to insert their thoughts, knowing full well the potential blow back? What real utility did she get other than blowing the proverbial "dog whistle" to her constituents? Then cry foul and complain when it blows up in her face? Give me a break, she should suffer the consequences of her actions, or lack there of.

Funny. No one was up in arms over Tomson Highway. The author she was paraphrasing when she made the residential school comment.
Someone who saw his nine year experience at a residential school as very positive.

[welfare]

Why do you care where the money goes you don't even pay taxes.


I know you're trolling, Manic, but I don't pay taxes?
Tell you what, I'll give up my line on personally consumed tax free cheap Indian smokes, and they can give up the status card, unregulated hunting, reserves, etc..

No more treats for you though. Feeding time's over

[Manic!]

I know you're trolling, Manic, but I don't pay taxes?
Tell you what, I'll give up my line on personally consumed tax free cheap Indian smokes, and they can give up the status card, unregulated hunting, reserves, etc..

No more treats for you though. Feeding time's over

Will you give up your welfare cheques?

[Berzerker]

See, again, why is having an opinion on a subject considered racist. I don't like the fact that natives get status and live on reserves and do fuck all and get handouts. I think the system needs to change and the natives need to learn how to fend for themselves like everyone else in Canada. I've said this before and I'll say it again. Does this make me a racist?

Berz out.

[Mr.HappySilp]

See, again, why is having an opinion on a subject considered racist. I don't like the fact that natives get status and live on reserves and do fuck all and get handouts. I think the system needs to change and the natives need to learn how to fend for themselves like everyone else in Canada. I've said this before and I'll say it again. Does this make me a racist?

Berz out.

Nope. You aren't saying anything hurtful at all. Is an option. You aren't like personally attacking them ie saying they lazying fucks who smoke joints all day.

These days anything you said can be use against you. Is best not to say anything at all lol.

[welfare]

Now it's being questioned as to why Scheer didn't react sooner.
And this is the mistake of conceding to "virtue".
Give them an inch, and now they want the whole party. A fools fate.

Maybe if he would have stood by her he'd realize he has the support of more people than he thinks. Instead cowtowing , giving the likes of chief Bellegarde an even higher upper hand over the government.
http://nationalpost.com/news/politics/tories-questioned-on-why-they-did-not-boot-beyak-from-caucus-sooner-2
Even Canadians can only stand not being heard for so long..

[SkinnyPupp]

If it wasn't clear, I wholeheartedly agree with her views on ending status, and really all privileges bestowed by the government. These are enablements, IMO.

My personal view is that the reparations or privileges are more damaging, to relations and the individuals themselves, than the original violation that they're attempting to make up for.
THAT is an opinion. You aren't calling FN people lazy and opportunistic.

[MarkyMark]

I don't necessarily disagree with her overall message, specifically just throwing money at a situation, but someone in her position should be able to convey that message a little better than she did. I get the whole Trump thing where they are just "telling it like it is", but please say it better than some drunk in a bar would.

[welfare]

THAT is an opinion. You aren't calling FN people lazy and opportunistic.

It is, yes. But at the same time, I won't clutch my pearls when I hear people making comments like that.
I may not agree with it, but I know the resentment doesn't come from nowhere.
It may sound crazy, but I believe any dialog is better than no dialog. Silencing people because racist doesn't work, IMO

[SkinnyPupp]

It is, yes. But at the same time, I won't clutch my pearls when I hear people making comments like that.
I may not agree with it, but I know the resentment doesn't come from nowhere.
It may sound crazy, but I believe any dialog is better than no dialog. Silencing people because racist doesn't work, IMO
The answer is simple - don't be a racist cunt, and people may listen to you

[welfare]

I don't necessarily disagree with her overall message, specifically just throwing money at a situation, but someone in her position should be able to convey that message a little better than she did. I get the whole Trump thing where they are just "telling it like it is", but please say it better than some drunk in a bar would.

I think it goes a little deeper than just telling it like it is. It's about having the ability to bring things out to the open for honest discussions. Yes, some people may use an open atmosphere to preach ignorance. But at least we can all be honest with each other. IMO, that's more important than our feelings. It should be more important than anything.

Try reading the entire speech. I think it's as well presented as it could possibly be.
Senator Lynn Beyak (http://lynnbeyak.sencanada.ca/p107691/)

[welfare]

The answer is simple - don't be a racist cunt, and people may listen to you

Okay but racist is a pretty subjective term these days, no?
I mean, she made comments about residential schools having some positive aspects, settling a payout, abandoning status, and some people think that was racist.
Does that mean she shouldn't be heard?

If what I said was an opinion, then what do you call what she said in her speech? Keep in mind the media essentially tried to hang her for it, while senators were calling for her resignation.

[GLOW]

Damn. And here I get banned on Revscene for using the "C" word.

that's what you get for going mainstream 4HeadEleGiggleOpieOP

[twitchyzero]

where can I read these comments? Right now media is obviously cherry-picking the worst ones

[Manic!]

where can I read these comments? Right now media is obviously cherry-picking the worst ones

They are not comments they are letters that people sent her ans she posted on here site. If she would have posted all the letters she received that whould be one thing but she cherry picked the ones she liked.


Senator Lynn Beyak (http://lynnbeyak.sencanada.ca/p107924)

I think that's a official government website.

[MG1]

Damn. And here I get banned on Revscene for using the "C" word.

I believe it's the adjectives you added..............

I thought it was tastefully done. First person experience of what happened in high school. To this day, I have no idea why you were banned. :troll:

[underscore]

There doesn't seem to be enough malicious intent to flat out call her racist, but I haven't read everything she has said. It does seem like b/s that instead of trying to educate someone that may have misguided views they just want her sacked. I mean:

"Mistakes were made at residential schools — in many instances, horrible mistakes that overshadowed some good things that also happened at those schools"

is one of the statements people are complaining about. Is it untrue? Is it factually incorrect? Does anyone honestly believe that not a single person had a single good intention throughout that entire process? Why is it that people can only look at something in terms of how it was overall and completely ignore the existence of every part that was counter to how it was overall?

You're a blonde white woman from who knows where, what knowledge or incite can you realistically provide regarding the impact of residential schools?

Please tell me you see the irony in this statement.

[Mr.Money]

who do she think she is..Trump.......she doesn't have enough large enough followers for them to think ..."Yeah that's okay,i AGREE"
so the smaller group called "Racist!" first.....and its true cause there's more people who believe it EleGiggle

[GS8]

I think it's pretty sad that people can't even have a discussion anymore about topics like this. People would rather virtue signal and call someone a racist rather than listen to their view on a subject.

I remember back in the day, if you were to accuse someone of being a racist or sexual abuser, it was a big deal and you damn well better have proof and expect to find yourself in court proving yourself or face a countersuit on charges of slander. Now these words are passed around nonchalant.

I completely understand that res schools existed up until not that long ago and the survivors should be treated for any form of abuse they endured. At some point in time, shouldn't both sides agree that bad shit happened in the past and move forward with mutual respect and dignity? Would that not be truly PROGRESSIVE? Wouldn't it actually be considered conservative to always live in the past?

Throwing money at people doesn't magically fix everything. It's just an enabler. A classic addiction mechanism. Give someone something that requires no effort from them and they'll always want more.

[Mancini]

Regardless of the intentions on either side the fact remains that First Nations people receive a great deal of money from the government that was not generated by a work effort. Where money is involved it will always be a contentious issue.

[Manic!]

I remember back in the day, if you were to accuse someone of being a racist or sexual abuser, it was a big deal and you damn well better have proof and expect to find yourself in court proving yourself or face a countersuit on charges of slander. Now these words are passed around nonchalant.



And that's why so many people got away with it.

[Lomac]

Damn. And here I get banned on Revscene for using the "C" word.

You should have known better that we don't like the "Corolla" word. That's a bannable offence around these parts here.

http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/604025/84627128.jpg

[Lomac]

Nope. And I doubt he does either. All he probably knew when he gave her that moniker was that it was an infamous female Indian and that the left would react with complete hypocrisy.

Which is kinda sad, especially on Trump's part. Pocahontas, according to myth anyway, saved a white man from execution... only to later be kidnapped by another group of white settlers and forced into marriage. Doesn't seem like the right type name to use as an insult intended to hurt someone's reputation.

But that's off topic here.

[welfare]

Which is kinda sad, especially on Trump's part. Pocahontas, according to myth anyway, saved a white man from execution... only to later be kidnapped by another group of white settlers and forced into marriage. Doesn't seem like the right type name to use as an insult intended to hurt someone's reputation.

But that's off topic here.

I think what's kinda sad is that this needs to be explained.
He's not saying anything derogatory about native Americans. He's not using the name Pocahontas to be offensive to them.
The negatory is solely on her. Not native people.

He uses it because he knows it infuriates her. Because everytime she (and those on the left really) try to call racism over it they look like complete hypocrites for not looking at the real offensive action; a rich white woman who pretended to be a minority to advance her career.

It's mocking, and drawing the hypocrisy in one shot.
It's really quite genius, IMO.

I think we really need to stop with this whole horseshit of virtuosity. This idea that a word is racist, when it's the context that makes it offensive. The liberal left tries to confuse us of that.

[Manic!]

I think what's kinda sad is that this needs to be explained.
He's not saying anything derogatory about native Americans. He's not using the name Pocahontas to be offensive to them.
The negatory is solely on her. Not native people.

He uses it because he knows it infuriates her. Because everytime she (and those on the left really) try to call racism over it they look like complete hypocrites for not looking at the real offensive action; a rich white woman who pretended to be a minority to advance her career.

It's mocking, and drawing the hypocrisy in one shot.
It's really quite genius, IMO.

I think we really need to stop with this whole horseshit of virtuosity. This idea that a word is racist, when it's the context that makes it offensive. The liberal left tries to confuse us of that.

It also infuriates native Americans> But who cares as long as you get a chuckle out of it.

If she claimed to be part Jewish he could call her little Annie Frank.

[welfare]

It also infuriates native Americans> But who cares as long as you get a chuckle out of it.

These native Americans are pretty upset with her. And for good reason
https://youtu.be/RnV3WzM3phk

explain to me the reason his use of the name is offensive. Break it down for me, please

[Mancini]

I remember using the term "aboriginal" and someone getting offended. I was carefully taught to use that term as an appropriate replacement for "native" or "Indian". It was that day I learned about the term "First Nations". I wonder if one day "First Nations" will be an offensive term, replaced by something else. Welfare is right. It's not the word that's offensive. It's the context and intent.

[welfare]

I stick with native or Indian.
I don't speak cuck.

[Hondaracer]

lol

[Bouncing Bettys]

If you're ever up in the Okanagan, I recommend cruising up Westside Road along Okanagan Lake between Kelowna and Vernon. They have an interesting sign along the way.
https://shawglobalnews.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/okib.jpg?quality=70&strip=all&w=720&h=480&crop=1
Seems that word is ok still.

[CivicBlues]

I remember using the term "aboriginal" and someone getting offended. I was carefully taught to use that term as an appropriate replacement for "native" or "Indian". It was that day I learned about the term "First Nations". I wonder if one day "First Nations" will be an offensive term, replaced by something else. Welfare is right. It's not the word that's offensive. It's the context and intent.

First it Indians
Then it was Natives
Then it was Aboriginal/First Nations
Now for some reason we have to use the term Indigenous

Can someone explain to me why??

[Manic!]

First it Indians
Then it was Natives
Then it was Aboriginal/First Nations
Now for some reason we have to use the term Indigenous

Can someone explain to me why??

Because Indians are from India.

[CivicBlues]

Yes I know that but why is Indigenous > Aboriginal?

[Manic!]

Yes I know that but why is Indigenous > Aboriginal?

Here I googled it for you: https://www.ictinc.ca/blog/indigenous-peoples-terminology-guidelines-for-usage

[twitchyzero]

referring to them as Indians is no different than lumping Koreans, Vietnamese, and Filipinos as Gooks

why it hasn't been officially changed in recent decades in official names like 'Indian Affairs', I don't know, likely for convience and to save money.

[Manic!]

referring to them as Indians is no different than lumping Koreans, Vietnamese, and Filipinos as Gooks

why it hasn't been officially changed in recent decades in official names like 'Indian Affairs', I don't know, likely for convience and to save money.

But the word gook is a derogatory term Indian is not.

[noclue]

It looks like she grew up in a small town in western ontario. If you grew up there or saskatoon/regina/winnipeg hell anywhere outside the lower mainland near a reserve it's likely you'll have a VERY negative view towards natives.

[CivicBlues]

Here I googled it for you: https://www.ictinc.ca/blog/indigenous-peoples-terminology-guidelines-for-usage

So according to the link basically the crux of it is:

[referring to the word Indigenous]
If using interchangeably with First Nations note that some First Nations prefer not to be called Aboriginal Peoples

Still doesn't explain why the term "Aboriginal" is no longer preferred

I'm not being facetious, just curious.

[welfare]

because 'ab' is the latin prefix for 'not' apparently.

[welfare]

First it Indians
Then it was Natives
Then it was Aboriginal/First Nations
Now for some reason we have to use the term Indigenous

Can someone explain to me why??

because no matter what you call people, someone will always find a way to be offended. call it the natural progression of narcissism
*offense can only be taken, not given

Because Indians are from India.

naa. they're east-indians

referring to them as Indians is no different than lumping Koreans, Vietnamese, and Filipinos as Gooks

why it hasn't been officially changed in recent decades in official names like 'Indian Affairs', I don't know, likely for convience and to save money.

i think it's more like lumping them as asians. although i'm certain the term asians will become offensive some how at some point

[Bouncing Bettys]

The term Indian doesn't appear to be created out of malice but from early "modern" European explorers mistaking the similarly dark skinned, dark haired inhabitants as possibly people from India's outer territories, also unaware of the giant land mass between home and their goal. For the most part, it's continued use to this day, also doesn't appear to be out of malice.

Terms and definitions change over time, but they largely change organically. You can't force it. Which probably explains why many have been slow, or outright refuse, to adopt new terms. Especially when those new terms don't really fit either. Aboriginal, Indigenous, First Nation, etc are terms that do not fit with historical/anthropological evidence. The human species did not evolve from the Americas. There is no out-of-Americas human evolution theory. These people came from Asia, and there is evidence they weren't the first but the final last wave of people from that route. There are also some theories that people from Europe may have also reached the Americas before them.

These new terms seem to defy historical fact in order to serve an agenda. This being one of attempting to establish prior ownership before European colonization. While I understand the attempt, I don't get why you would want to identify yourself using the concepts and definitions of your conquerors. They should be trying to find a word that makes them unique to the Americas.

[welfare]

It looks like she grew up in a small town in western ontario. If you grew up there or saskatoon/regina/winnipeg hell anywhere outside the lower mainland near a reserve it's likely you'll have a VERY negative view towards natives.

negative view? or real view?
she served on the indian affairs commitee. she's probably just sick with seeing populations kill themselves slowly and painfully through government susbsidies.
meanwhile we worry about what to call them.
i guess that's compassion

[CivicBlues]

Headline soon:

The Minister of Indian Affairs joins hands with First Nations leaders to wish a happy National Aboriginal Day to all of Canada's Indigenous citizens.

http://www.animikii.com/blog/why-we-use-indigenous-instead-of-aboriginal

[underscore]

They should be trying to find a word that makes them unique to the Americas.

Good luck with that, depending on who you talk to all of the current terms are offensive to some and preferred by others (Indian/First Nation/Aboriginal/Native American/etc) so I doubt adding another one into the mix would work any better. They're all still in use by varying tribes as well.

[twitchyzero]

But the word gook is a derogatory term Indian is not.

my point was it's a misnomer and I'm surprised it's still officially used

back on topic, i'm for a dialogue that would integrate this population with the rest of Canadians...I don't mind more symbolism of their identity around these parts but these inter-generational issues have gone on for too long

[welfare]

I recently ran across this great interview and it reminded me of some of the discussion in this thread.

https://youtu.be/diNGK_w1qVs

I had no idea what transfer payments were. So I looked it up. I was astonished.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_transfer_payments

The Canadian federal government budgeted in 2009-10 nearly $60 billion to transfer to the provinces and territories through major transfers (Canada Health Transfer, Canada Social Transfer, Equalization and Territorial Formula Financing), direct targeted support and trust funds – an increase of $6.7 billion from the previous year.[1]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equalization_payments

In Canada, the federal government makes payments to less wealthy Canadian provinces to equalize the provinces' "fiscal capacity"—their ability to generate tax revenues. In 2009-2010, six provinces received $14.2 billion in equalization payments from the federal government.[2] Until the 2009-2010 fiscal year, Ontario was the only province to have never received equalization payments; in 2009-2010 Ontario will receive $347 million,[3] while Newfoundland, which has received payments since the program's creation, is now a so-called "have" province, and is now a net contributor that does not receive Equalization payments.

This had my mind absolutely blown

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_Formula_Financing

A significant portion of the financial resources of the territorial governments comes from the Canadian federal government through the TFF grant. For instance, during the 2005-06 fiscal year, TFF was approximately 61 per cent of Yukon’s, 66 per cent of the Northwest Territories’ and 81 per cent of Nunavut’s total financial resources.

81% of Nunavut total financial resources is supplied by the government.
It is absolutely astounding the level of ignorance that this country's government has for sustainability of it's inhabitants. This is pure insanity to me.

[Manic!]

81% of Nunavut total financial resources is supplied by the government.
It is absolutely astounding the level of ignorance that this country's government has for sustainability of it's inhabitants. This is pure insanity to me.


Have you ever heard of the term use it or loose it.

In we have no one living up north what there to stop the Russians or Americans from setting up camp?

[DragonChi]

LOL, it costs about 25 dollars for a can of pop in Nunavut. I have no idea how people up there live.

Here's a documentary to give a glimpse of what it's like up there.

Angry Inuk: Modern Inuit Challenge Anti-Sealing Groups (http://www.cbc.ca/cbcdocspov/episodes/angry-inuk)

I recently ran across this great interview and it reminded me of some of the discussion in this thread.

https://youtu.be/diNGK_w1qVs



Wow that video. I knew about equalization payments, but didn't know Quebec got so much of those payments. I thought it was mostly to Saskatchewan and the east coast.

The end of the video though, is a huge jump from a academic point of view to real world issues. Specifically how he uses the situation of a drug addict, and how easy it is to asses their situation and says just change it. I doubt he has an iota of what it's like to be in that situation, from the way he says it so casually. I agree how giving money to a population will destroy them, it's manifested across countries as he's pointed out.

[Tone Loc]

I think it's pretty sad that people can't even have a discussion anymore about topics like this. People would rather virtue signal and call someone a racist rather than listen to their view on a subject.


Excessive political correctness of our Western society is one of the big reasons that things don't get done.

Look at the housing crisis for example. Any person who goes on record to talk about how foreign buyers have ruined our real estate market is instantly branded as a "racist" or a "bigot" or someone who hates Chinese people. Basically the only people who are allowed to say anything are other Chinese people, but even they get called "classist". So the problem never gets dealt with because people are too busy calling each other names over stupid shit.

Sometimes I wish we could be like New Zealand and Singapore and just FIX the damn thing (banning foreign buyers) instead of worrying about how "racist" their new law is.

People's views on Indigenous people no different. Personally I agree with most people here and that gov't should stop giving handouts and let Indigenous people fend for themselves and/or integrate with society. I think they get too many "perks" from the government with little result (poor living conditions on the reserves, high incarceration rate, etc.) Does that make me a racist? I don't think so but there are certainly people who would call me that.

[welfare]

Have you ever heard of the term use it or loose it.

In we have no one living up north what there to stop the Russians or Americans from setting up camp?

So spend billions of dollars, with no end in sight, to make life "sustainable" on uninhabitable land in order to keep that uninhabitable land from being invaded?

Yeah that makes sense.

[welfare]

Honestly, I don't blame the people using these systems (Chinese in Vancouver housing/those economic dependants). In their position I'd likely do the same. Most people would.
I blame the "well intentioned" people who perpetuate the lie that these are good things.

Why I won't bother posting in the Vancouver RE thread when I see NDP proposed "solutions" to the problem.
They're one in the same. Continue to make an unsustainable situation sustainable. Standard status quo

[68style]

No idea of the ages of everyone in this thread/forum, but at least when I went to highschool transfer payments were a huge discussion point in Georgraphy / History / Economics classes and a primary catalyst for the discussion of B.C. annexing from the rest of Canada since we have always been, essentially, supporting other have-not provinces.

This was also brought up, at times, when discussing Quebec separating from Canada and what a ridiculous idea it was because they'd instantly be the poorest and most insolvent country in all of the western world hahaha... as I remember my teacher at the time saying "Let them go, they'll be crawling back in 5 years time" hahaha!

As an aside, I can't imagine a teacher saying that in a class nowadays without getting fired.

[68style]

Honestly, I don't blame the people using these systems (Chinese in Vancouver housing/those economic dependants). In their position I'd likely do the same. Most people would.
I blame the "well intentioned" people who perpetuate the lie that these are good things.


I got into the biggest argument with my parents about this exact topic, they were complaining so much about Chinese this Chinese that and I told them if we had the same situation as them (ie: a crooked government that might steal our money at any point in time with no due process or legal reason) and there was another country in the world with super clean conditions and high standard of living that also had shitty laws and massive loopholes for property purchasing and investment we'd be doing the same thing! Blame the government that allowed it to happen while profiting from it massively, don't blame the people who are trying to make their life better and safer.

In addition, we get a poor sample, only the stuck up and generally inconsiderate rich assholes can afford to come do this stuff, so they look horrible from a community perspective... but you go to China and hundreds of millions of people are just like us there, frustrated that they can't buy anything in their own cities and pissed at the China millionaires... exactly the same as here if not worse, those people have NO chance of ever owning anything there... people think the wage gap is bad here, they should take a look at any major city in China lol

[Manic!]

So spend billions of dollars, with no end in sight, to make life "sustainable" on uninhabitable land in order to keep that uninhabitable land from being invaded?

Yeah that makes sense.

It does make sense.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/china-used-research-mission-to-test-trade-route-through-canadas-northwest-passage/article36223673/

Vladimir Putin visits Arctic to reaffirm Russia's claim | Russia News | Al Jazeera (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/03/vladimir-putin-visits-arctic-reaffirm-russia-claim-170329200545418.html)

[Berzerker]

A lot of Indians are now calling themselves by their territory. Here in my area they call themselves Wet'suwet'en. This is only local though. If all First Nations starting calling themselves by their home territory no one would know what to call them en masse.

Berz out.

[welfare]

The end of the video though, is a huge jump from a academic point of view to real world issues. Specifically how he uses the situation of a drug addict, and how easy it is to asses their situation and says just change it. I doubt he has an iota of what it's like to be in that situation, from the way he says it so casually. I agree how giving money to a population will destroy them, it's manifested across countries as he's pointed out.

If you look up his background, you'll see he's probably got more than an iota of experience in the matter.
I can tell you myself, it is that simple. You either do or you don't. The choice is yours.

I think part of the problem is how we view people with dependencies as victims. By doing that we only validate the dependency.
A victim has absolutely no free will to their situation.
By making a choice we also choose the consequence. And consequence is just as important as reward. But as a society we see it as negative so we try to lessen or remove consequence from that equation. You see it everywhere. The lack of humility. The fortifying of an ego. The consequence of removing consequence! Lol.

The easiest thing for a good person to do is think with their heart. But if you know the damage enabling a dependency causes, it's also the most selfish.
That's the way I see it anyways.

[welfare]

It does make sense.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/china-used-research-mission-to-test-trade-route-through-canadas-northwest-passage/article36223673/

Vladimir Putin visits Arctic to reaffirm Russia's claim | Russia News | Al Jazeera (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/03/vladimir-putin-visits-arctic-reaffirm-russia-claim-170329200545418.html)

I don't think maintaining an artificial economy in the territories lends argument to the dictation of Canadian land and waterways

[Manic!]

I don't think maintaining an artificial economy in the territories lends argument to the dictation of Canadian land and waterways

What's to stop Russia from setting up a base in the arctic?


http://www.sott.net/image/s3/78096/full/Russia_arctic_grab.jpg

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/aug/02/russia.arctic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx_2SVm9Jgo&index=2&list=PLJ8cMiYb3G5eYGt47YpJcNhILyYLmV-tW

[welfare]

That is interesting. I see your point.
But if it's scientists, and not diplomats, who dictate the claims, what difference does spending billions of dollars to falsify an economy make?
Nunavut is not international or disputed land. It's actually supposed to be self governing

[Manic!]

That is interesting. I see your point.
But if it's scientists, and not diplomats, who dictate the claims, what difference does spending billions of dollars to falsify an economy make?
Nunavut is not international or disputed land. It's actually supposed to be self governing

Is that what happened in Ukraine? and why is Alaska a part of America? The people up North are our eyes and ears. If no one lived up there whats stopping
Russia from setting up a base?

[welfare]

Eyes and ears? They're chess pieces.
And given the state that government dependency has them in, that's pretty fucked up.
Not gonna bother with the statistics. I'm sure you're aware.
Homicide rates, suicide rates, substance abuse, unemployment, etc..

[GabAlmighty]

I'm getting a kick out of everyone talking about the north, and quoting this and that, with no real world experience up here.

[68style]

^
I watched an episode of that show where they establish a residence in remote areas and it was on Inuit land. Pretty sure the entire show was factual.

EleGiggle

[welfare]

I'm getting a kick out of everyone talking about the north, and quoting this and that, with no real world experience up here.

I'm all ears...

[GabAlmighty]

^
I watched an episode of that show where they establish a residence in remote areas and it was on Inuit land. Pretty sure the entire show was factual.


I'm living in it

I'm all ears...

Whatcha wanna know?

[DragonChi]

...

[welfare]

I'm living in it



Whatcha wanna know?

What's your opinion on Canadian governments approach to native relations?
I guess broadly, what's your opinion on that whole situation in this country?

[welfare]

Interesting turn of events with that Gerald Stanley verdict...

[GS8]

Interesting turn of events with that Gerald Stanley verdict...

I was hoping the debate would focus more on 'stand your ground' but in this day and age, people just want to scream top tier words like 'racism'.

Keep on rockin' in the Cree world

[Manic!]

I was hoping the debate would focus more on 'stand your ground' but in this day and age, people just want to scream top tier words like 'racism'.

Keep on rockin' in the Cree world

Stand your ground is not a law in Canada.

[GS8]

Stand your ground is not a law in Canada.

Not referring to it as a law, Just using the terminology so we know what's being discussed. What people can and can't do when dealing with trespassers.

That should be the debate, not whether a racist old white guy shot a young charming hard working native guy.

[Manic!]

Not referring to it as a law, Just using the terminology so we know what's being discussed. What people can and can't do when dealing with trespassers.

That should be the debate, not whether a racist old white guy shot a young charming hard working native guy.

in the back.

[RRxtar]

Stand your ground is not a law in Canada.
its not written as a stand your ground law in canada such that stand your ground and castle laws are "you can kill someone who tried to harm you or your property." but you are legally allowed to use justifiable force to protect yourself, your family, and your property, perhaps not property but home was the terminology. there was just a news article on it the other day. the judge in the article said you would likely not be convicted for using lethal force if the person you were defending yourself/home/family from was intending to use lethal force.

[welfare]

Not referring to it as a law, Just using the terminology so we know what's being discussed. What people can and can't do when dealing with trespassers.

That should be the debate, not whether a racist old white guy shot a young charming hard working native guy.

Don't forget the racist all white jury. And the racist Justice system.
Or the fact that Saskatchewan is consistently ranked province with highest crime rates and severity of crimes, year after year (still well below any of the territories though). Must be racism.

It's ashame the defendant was white. Could have avoided the court process altogether
https://www.saskatchewan.ca/residents/justice-crime-and-the-law/courts-and-sentencing/alternatives-to-going-to-court

Kinda makes you wonder if the Boushie family would have been this angered if their sons life was taken by a fellow native. Hmmmm

[Bouncing Bettys]

This is making the rounds on FB
Dini Ze Smogelgem
13 hrs · Instagram ·
This is Gerald Stanley. He was found not guilty by an all white jury that was overseen by a judge with an known history with #whitesupremacy --- He murdered Colten Boushie in cold blood simply because he was a #native man knocking on his door in the middle of the night. #colten stopped by the farm and was asking for help with a flat tire. Gerald shot Colten in the back of the head as Colten tried walking away from what was turning into a deadly situation. Afterwards, Gerald's wife mocked Colten's girlfriend while she was in complete shock screaming over Colten's dead body. Gerald and his wife calmly went back inside and brewed a pot of coffee and waited for the police. The Native family in the car was immediately arrested when the police arrived. During the #rcmp #investigation the police constantly #harrased Colten's grieving parents.

This very behavior is the foundation of #colonization and it's eventual #confederation

This is why #indigenous #people must define our own #future and #selfdetermination --- This is why we must define #reconciliation
Just there asking for help with a flat tire? uh huh.

Gerald fired two warning shots into the air. That does not sound like the actions of someone who was prepared to kill. He aslo claimed: . It was at that moment, he said, the gun went off accidentally. He said he never pulled the trigger. His defence lawyer suggested it must have been a hangfire, particularly since the cartridge casing found inside the vehicle had an unusual bulge firearms experts could not reproduce.
Hangfire: a delay in the detonation of gunpowder or other ammunition, caused by some defect in the fuze. Firing a gun into the air multiple times would makes hangfire possible and go unnoticed in the middle of a confrontation such as this.

It's sad that someone had to die in order for a lesson to be learned about why you don't go on an armed, drunken, crime spree in rural Canada.

And no, these things do not justify shooting someone and I don't agree with Stand Your Ground laws.

[welfare]

It's sad that someone had to die in order for a lesson to be learned about why you don't go on an armed, drunken, crime spree in rural Canada.

That's the biggest upset of this whole thing,IMO.
No lessons were learned. Finger pointing. Projection and not reflection.

[welfare]

Love Trudeau's response. Very Obama-esque.
Wonder what further concessions he'll put forward to rectify this grave Injustice, and "repair" relations.

[68style]

I'm curious about the details of the case, the account that I read did not say that he was shot as he walked away, it said he was shot in the driver seat of the broken car AFTER he tried to steal an ATV and AFTER he had rammed the broken car into another parked car on their property.

That's a pretty massive departure from "He was shot in the back while walking away from a dangerous situation"???

Which story is it? Why are the 2 accounts so incredibly different?

It also wasn't the middle of the night??? The wife was mowing the lawn at the time, I don't recall reading what time that was at in the breakdown of events I saw, but I don't know too many people that mow their lawn in the dark. Where did that Instagram poster get his/her "facts" from?

I was reading all the farmers in the area are scared of retribution, so they're all arming themselves now... awesome.

[welfare]

I'm curious about the details of the case, the account that I read did not say that he was shot as he walked away, it said he was shot in the driver seat of the broken car AFTER he tried to steal an ATV and AFTER he had rammed the broken car into another parked car on their property.

That's a pretty massive departure from "He was shot in the back while walking away"???

Which story is it? Why are the 2 accounts so incredibly different? The ballistics indicate he was shot inside the broken Ford Escape too.

It also wasn't the middle of the night??? The wife was mowing the damn lawn.

Consider the sources of each account.

Oh, also, there's the many many lies from the witnesses..
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/witnesses-in-gerald-stanley-trial-admit-to-changing-stories-since-shooting-of-colten-boushie/article37817572/

[Bouncing Bettys]

It also wasn't the middle of the night??? The wife was mowing the lawn at the time, I don't recall reading what time that was at in the breakdown of events I saw, but I don't know too many people that mow their lawn in the dark. Where did that Instagram poster get his/her "facts" from?.
Aug. 9 2016
Colten Boushie, 22, and four friends are driving through the RM of Glenside, near Biggar, Sask. They’re on their way home to the Red Pheasant Cree Nation when they pull onto a farm owned by Gerald Stanley around 5:30 p.m. Two people from the vehicle get into a confrontation with Stanley and his son. Boushie is shot and killed.
In early August in they should have sun light until 8:30 or so.

[68style]

In early August in they should have sun light until 8:30 or so.


Exactly, the Instagram post says "native man knocking on his door in the middle of the night"... what? lol

[68style]

Consider the sources of each account.

Oh, also, there's the many many lies from the witnesses..
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/witnesses-in-gerald-stanley-trial-admit-to-changing-stories-since-shooting-of-colten-boushie/article37817572/

Who the fuck can drink 30 shots of liquor and still walk around doing things afterward??? Fuck me.........

30 shots! That's an entire 1-litre bottle!

[welfare]

I was reading all the farmers in the area are scared of retribution, so they're all arming themselves now... awesome.

Hopefully don't develop into a South Africa farmer type deal..

South Africa farm murders: Jacob Zuma calls for white land to be confiscated (http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/bury-them-alive-white-south-africans-fear-for-their-future-as-horrific-farm-attacks-escalate/news-story/3a63389a1b0066b6b0b77522c06d6476)

[Bouncing Bettys]

Hopefully don't develop into a South Africa farmer type deal..

South Africa farm murders: Jacob Zuma calls for white land to be confiscated (http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/bury-them-alive-white-south-africans-fear-for-their-future-as-horrific-farm-attacks-escalate/news-story/3a63389a1b0066b6b0b77522c06d6476)

Not to worry, the white guilt is so strong here we have people giving up their land and encouraging others to do the same.
One woman's plan to give back: 'The land needs to be returned to Indigenous peoples' - Home | Unreserved | CBC Radio (http://www.cbc.ca/radio/unreserved/how-are-you-putting-reconciliation-into-action-1.4362219/one-woman-s-plan-to-give-back-the-land-needs-to-be-returned-to-indigenous-peoples-1.4363152)

[68style]

Wow... where does it end?

Germany better give itself to Israel pronto...... Spain better reconcile with the Aztecs... oh wait there aren't any left to reconcile with.

Likewise for the poor dinosaurs, victims of climate change... smaller reptiles and mammals from that era must be living with a lot of survivor guilt.

[CharlesInCharge]

My ZX was broken into in the middle of the night some years back... so if youre allowed to shoot and kill Native Americans breaking into ones car... how am I supposed to recognize one when its pitch black, specially that Asians and whites can look the same?
Canada should adopt a badge system like Hitler used on the Jews... but instead tattoo it on peoples foreheads.

[68style]

... Wut?

[CharlesInCharge]

You can go to jail for shooting an intruder into your Canadian home correct?
But shooting a Native American stealing ones car is okay?

[welfare]

Why are people making this out to be a racial issue? What evidence is there that it has anything to do with anything? Because people have different skin colours, that alone constitutes racism now?

If a native gets shot and killed, unintentionally, by another native, no one outside their circle gives a flying fuck. Not the native communities. Not the media. Not the government.

And faster than you can utter the words "white racism", the power grab:
'We have questions and we want answers': Boushie family in Ottawa to meet with ministers - Politics - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/politics/boushie-verdict-ottawa-parliament-meeting-1.4530880)

"I'm here to speak with the government — [to tell them] that the way they're treating us, it's not right," Alvin Baptiste said.

"They're asking for reconciliation and we're willing to work with the Canadian government ... and change the laws that are out there. They're not working for the First Nations people at all."

The family members are expected to be joined Monday by Kim Jonathan, first vice chief of the Federation of Sovereign Indigenous Nations.

"We've seen such disrespect and disregard for Colten's life," Jonathan said Saturday. "We're not going to ask for a meeting, we're not going to request to be heard — we will be heard."

[CharlesInCharge]

Why are people making this out to be a racial issue? What evidence is there that it has anything to do with anything? Because people have different skin colours, that alone constitutes racism now?
So you agree with the verdict?

[welfare]

I believe there wasn't significant evidence to prove second degree murder beyond a reasonable doubt, yes.
And I don't believe race had anything to do with the verdict or his death.

Do I think it's right that this kid died? No.
But do I think it would have been right for the shooter to be thrown a life sentence? Given the facts, no.

And I find it EXTREMELY irresponsible that our prime minister and minister of justice have responded by essentially saying that our justice system has failed them.

[welfare]

Let's try looking at it with the script flipped.
Exact same scenario, but Boushie is the shooter and Stanley is the guy who pulled into his farm drunk as hell with his friends trying to steal his ATV before attempting to flee and crashing into his car.
Gun goes off during a struggle to shut the vehicle off.

How do you think the Boushie family would feel about their son receiving a life sentence for that? Would they think justice was served?

[underscore]

This is why #indigenous #people must define our own #future and #selfdetermination --- This is why we must define #reconciliation

What the fuck does that even mean? Looks like a bunch of buzz words that have nothing to do with what happened.

[CharlesInCharge]

I believe there wasn't significant evidence to prove second degree murder beyond a reasonable doubt, yes.
And I don't believe race had anything to do with the verdict or his death.

Do I think it's right that this kid died? No.
But do I think it would have been right for the shooter to be thrown a life sentence? Given the facts, no. So if you had a brother and he was broken down in Abbotsford and tried to steal gas from a shed but was shot to death... with the shooter claiming it was an accident. You wouldnt want a murder charge? On top of that as your brother was shot inside his car and the police leave the door open to the elements for the "rain" to wash away the horrific blood scene inside. That is fine and dandy to you?

[donk.]

:inout:

[68style]

I don’t know about welfare's Fictitious brother, but I know my fictitious brother would just knock on the door and politely ask if he could buy some gas or get assistance of some sort. Or he’d have the Saskatchewan equivalent of BCAA or he’d just call me or my parents and say he broke down and ask for a hand.

How about this? Would you be okay with your fictitious father allowing someone to steal his ATV and threaten his family including your mother with a gun and then ram into his car parked in his driveway Charles? Honey call the police and let’s hope this ends well!

Moron. Nobody in a live situation gets the benefit of knowing how it turns out afterward to go back and decide what the best way to handle it was.

[RRxtar]

Stop dwelling in the "he was there looking for gas". Pretty good chance that was a made up excuse.

[CharlesInCharge]

I made that gas part up as an example see if the value of stolen item made a difference.
I don’t know about welfare's Fictitious brother, but I know my fictitious brother would just knock on the door and politely ask if he could buy some gas or get assistance of some sort. Or he’d have the Saskatchewan equivalent of BCAA or he’d just call me or my parents and say he broke down and ask for a hand.

How about this? Would you be okay with your fictitious father allowing someone to steal his ATV and threaten his family including your mother with a gun and then ram into his car parked in his driveway Charles? Honey call the police and let’s hope this ends well!

Moron. Nobody in a live situation gets the benefit of knowing how it turns out afterward to go back and decide what the best way to handle it was.So this really comes down to the price of the ATV, a material possession worth what $300? used, is worth raising ones gun to the back of an offenders head and blowing it up. Nice set of morals you were raised with. I think you would fit in fine in the concrete jungles of Brazil and Honduras were a human life is worthless.
Please spare me the family threatened when the son and father were wielding a hammer and gun when the suspects were leaving.

[Bouncing Bettys]

^What evidence is there that he raised the gun to the back of the head and pulled the trigger? The testimony of intoxicated witnesses who admitted to lying to police?

The fact that he fired multiple shots into the air not only demonstrates an attempt to scare them off rather than use force, it explains how a hangfire might occur and why the shell casing was deformed in such a way. Reasonable doubt has been established.

[CharlesInCharge]

Where were the entry and exit wounds?
Did the father or son also enter the car... is that why the police left the doors open for the "rain" to wash evidence out and tow the car away to some public tow yard some hours after the incident so the victims family couldnt do their own investigation?

How do you also know he fired in the air?

[68style]

^
the only fact is that you don’t know what happened Charles.

Nobody does. But for some reason you think you do and you’re judging all of us now based on what you think is the true sequence of events... even though you actually have no idea.

Have fun with that.

Nobody wants anyone to die, but those moron kids set about stealing from someone and they have a right to protect their property and if something terrible happens to the person stealing/threatening/damaging, well, they pretty much signed up for it the second they came in with bad intentions. Stupid decisions sometimes result in death.

[CharlesInCharge]

So why cant I kill someone if they steal from my Burnaby backyard? Its like a certain class of people are given special privileges of law over others.
There was a home invasion in Coquitlam recently... had the parents with their preteen girl used a weapon to kill one of the 3 male suspects, they would go to prison.

State the facts that you believe to be true in the case that goes against what Ive said.

[68style]

You’re incorrect about your scenarios. Where’s your proof that you’d go to jail if someone with a gun broke into your house and you shot them? You wouldn’t... so I have no idea what your point is, you’re only proving yourself wrong. And yes, I’d say people who obey the law are given special privileges over people that break it? What’s your point?

You apparently haven’t read the full accounts where these kids had a gun... they wrecked the gun beating on the ATV (if I remember correctly), but how are you supposed to know a gun is real or broken or a fake toy?

It’s like you didn’t even bother to read the details and now you’re just spouting off fake scenarios here.

[CharlesInCharge]

So youre saying they pointed a gun at the father before he shot the 22 year olds brain out?

Heres the first random case one I found for shooting a home invader;
2016, Newfoundland man up on murder charges for shooting home invader
?I?m glad he shot him?: Newfoundland man up on murder charges for shooting home invader | National Post (http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/im-glad-he-shot-him-newfoundland-man-up-on-murder-charges-for-shooting-home-invader)

[welfare]

Charles, why do you think Stanley is guilty of intentionally killing the Boushie kid?
What concrete evidence is there?

[CharlesInCharge]

How about emptying half the prisons in Canada because everyone claims it was an accident, they didnt mean to do it.

[welfare]

Concrete evidence, Charles.

[CharlesInCharge]

Whats your evidence? White is right? They are gods chosen people?

[welfare]

You don't need evidence to prove innocence, Charles.
The burden of proof is on the prosecution

[CharlesInCharge]

With the 'your brother" broken down in Abbotsford stealing gas scenario I made earlier... you would accept the house owner to face no prison time for his murder?

[welfare]

Not interested in answering hypotheticals, Charles.
If you want to converse about the facts of this particular case, that's fine by me.
Unfortunately, you don't seem to want to do that. Ever.
That said, as always, it's been a pleasure. Take care now

[CharlesInCharge]

Right, if it was your people or family, its different, but a Native American's life is sub-par.

[68style]

EVERYTHING in life is relative Charles.

How can anyone be expected to care as much about someone who isn't related to them as they do about their own family? Race has nothing to do with it. That kid could have been white or purple or a damn oompa-loompa for all I care, wouldn't change how I feel nor would it have changed the verdict. You don't even know what ethnicity anyone on this thread is, you're just making assumptions.

[CharlesInCharge]

Why cant I kill someone trespassing to steal my property?
If you had a drug addicted brother and he tried to break into my Nissan 300ZX, do I have every right in your heart to blow his brains out?

[68style]

You can point a gun at him and tell him to leave, and if the gun was determined to have accidentally went off, you would also not be convicted of second degree murder. Tragedy? Yes. Murder? No.

It’s pretty simple.

[CharlesInCharge]

Right....
If the shooter looks like this, it was an accident, a tragedy.
https://i.imgur.com/ukdEUVj.jpg

but if the shooter looks like me, he'd be labeled a murdering soulless barbarian.
https://i.imgur.com/xwgcW7Z.jpg

[68style]

I don’t think anyone knows what you’re talking about at this point. Have fun in fantasy conjecture land.

[CharlesInCharge]

Yeah Im sure the said gun too can be recreated to go off if you hold and move it around without pulling the trigger.
Fantasy or selective racism?

[GabAlmighty]

What's your opinion on Canadian governments approach to native relations?
I guess broadly, what's your opinion on that whole situation in this country?

In a very broad respect, the government is just trying to throw money at the situation. Doing whatever they need to get the votes for the next election. They aren't doing anything to actually fix the problem, a bandaid will only do so much.

The problem with the removal of the residential school system is that now none of the kids are going to school. You go to these communities and all the younger generation are legitimately stupid, just down right dumb. My friend is a teacher at a community school, the kids show up for first period/morning so that they are entitled to their free lunch and then they leave.

The government needs to stop throwing handouts at the first nations because all it has created is a generation of entitled, lazy people who are just waiting for the pay cheque to come in.

Now, obviously this is a generalization. Not all first nations are like this, some are very smart and are utilizing their handouts to educate themselves and get ahead. But a lot/most of them fit within the stereotypes all too well.

All of this is first hand experience flying to and staying in communities in the north, not just reading the latest propagandist news article.

[CharlesInCharge]

Do you think its in Native American DNA genes for the things you say they do?

edit 2; Im thinking the father thought because police can shoot perps inside a running car, he too can shoot the driver... as per inside witness, I think the father shot twice, killing the kid, and the police are tampering with the car evidence because there are two gun powdered trace marks inside. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQgOqpPGNog

edit;
Canada is clearly a budding apartheid state...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqbC_KAjxSI

[Bouncing Bettys]

The problem with the removal of the residential school system is that now none of the kids are going to school. You go to these communities and all the younger generation are legitimately stupid, just down right dumb. My friend is a teacher at a community school, the kids show up for first period/morning so that they are entitled to their free lunch and then they leave.

Could that be interpreted as there having been some good to come from residential schools like Lynn Beyak was saying?

[GabAlmighty]

Could that be interpreted as there having been some good to come from residential schools like Lynn Beyak was saying?

Si

[ScizzMoney]

I think one big problem as far as education and younger generations is most of you guys are only seeing really shitty reserves and communities. These communities are being run by even shittier people. I often hear people say like Gab said "..a lot/most of them fit within the stereotypes all too well." This is true to a lot of smaller reserves that I have been to and seen. But these are a smaller fraction of the Canadian Native population than people actually think. Towns like Kamloops, Kelowna (Westbank), Vernon, Oliver, Osoyoos, and Chilliwack have quite high literacy rates. A lot of the Indian Bands in these towns run their tribal offices like businesses and actually hire people based off of merit, rather than just being 'johnny's cuz'.

I think people also forget in small buttfuck towns in the middle of nowhere that are predominantly white, those people aren't all first round picks either. I don't think a lot of the issues have anything to do with race, but have everything to do with culture.

As for my opinion on this Gerald Stanley thing, I don't think that his crime of shooting buddy had anything to do with race. If it was a few whites, or Asians, or brown people the outcome would have been the same.

[welfare]

Si

Thank you for your honest opinion.
Something tells me that the same ones who actually utilize the handouts to improve their lives are the same ones who would be able to self sustain without them.


Never been up north but I did spend half my adolescent life growing up pretty much exclusively with natives.
And IMO, the square root to nearly all the issues that I've seen has been, exactly as Calvin Helin explained, dependency.

And until the ones who dig those holes reflect on the truth, the problem is likely to continue the trend.
TBH, I don't think the government gives enough of a shit about them to grow a spine and face it. Nor would they wanna rock that boat.
They use the land, they pay the money. Been that way since the beginning. Pacification round and round.
Same situation where you're at with mining royalties and whatnot, if I understand correctly.
I love this country, but there is a severe lack of cohesion. And honesty. I worry about it. Maybe too much. But it's very unsettling sometimes.

[welfare]

I think one big problem as far as education and younger generations is most of you guys are only seeing really shitty reserves and communities. These communities are being run by even shittier people. I often hear people say like Gab said "..a lot/most of them fit within the stereotypes all too well." This is true to a lot of smaller reserves that I have been to and seen. But these are a smaller fraction of the Canadian Native population than people actually think. Towns like Kamloops, Kelowna (Westbank), Vernon, Oliver, Osoyoos, and Chilliwack have quite high literacy rates. A lot of the Indian Bands in these towns run their tribal offices like businesses and actually hire people based off of merit, rather than just being 'johnny's cuz'.

I think people also forget in small buttfuck towns in the middle of nowhere that are predominantly white, those people aren't all first round picks either. I don't think a lot of the issues have anything to do with race, but have everything to do with culture.

As for my opinion on this Gerald Stanley thing, I don't think that his crime of shooting buddy had anything to do with race. If it was a few whites, or Asians, or brown people the outcome would have been the same.

I agree. People are people. Some good some bad. Shaped, predominantly, by our environment and our past. DNA is a map, but not definitively determinate.

There are reserves that more than quadruple the funding invested by the federal government. And that's a great thing. But it leaves me to wonder whether or not they actually need the funding and could not self sustain.

I should be clear, I don't give a shit about who gets what and whether or not things are fair. Life shouldn't be fair and I'm appreciative of that. I just think that the ability to self sustain or produce is a key component to happiness and fulfillment. And self worth. Which is consequential to confidence.

Like I said, I get it. use the land so pay the money. It's the only thing the government knows or cares to do.


I just think the ones who abuse the system are more damaged because of it. And the ones who don't, likely would be able to grow and advance without it.
But people are so worried about what's fair rather than what's healthy.

I dunno. It's a complex situation this Canada. There's so much up in the air. Uncertainty.
And it's easy to get caught up in the race bullshit. I fall for it too sometimes. But all it takes is a trip down memory lane to see all the fucked up shit human beings have done to each other over the past several thousand years. Some over race, some over religion, some over political ideology, some over wealth. Then I realize, yeah we're all the same shit. All capable of evil.. All capable of love. No better. No worse.
Yeah I'm rambling now

[Bouncing Bettys]

Not just Trudeau but the media too.
Trudeau’s comments on Boushie case may have ‘tainted’ a potential appeal process: lawyer
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/4022425/colten-boushie-justin-trudeau-appeal/amp/

[welfare]

The idea of a lack of native representation in jury isn't a fault of the judicial system. Jurors are selected randomly, many of them native. And natives, like most people, either don't show up or ask to be excused.
But I'm sure Trudeau and Singh will both argue this issue all the way to 2019.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/familys-hopes-dashed-as-majority-white-jury-selected-for-boushie-murder-trial/article37784480/

When Chief Justice Martel Popescul asked whether anyone needed to be excused as potential jurors, a long line quickly formed. About 70 people, roughly a third of those present, pleaded to be let go, citing reasons that ranged from health concerns to holidays they'd already booked. Nearly 50, including about a dozen people who appeared Indigenous, were excused.

For once it would be nice to see a politician argue the issues that led to the confrontation in the first place, rather than bury their heads in the sand while pointing fingers in every other direction.

[CharlesInCharge]

Wow they brought aboard a dozen Native Americans and didnt pick one to represent him.

Had this been a white and black case in the deep south, even dumb Trumpers would cue in the unjust juror system.


Hey Welfare, if your grandfather acted like ISIS 3 generations back, like raping, killing, and stealing children for the state to brainwash Marxiat\Hollywood culture... would you as Canada's leader today still be indifferent about "handouts"?

[welfare]

A dozen left at their own accord. And who knows how many were called of the 550 individuals who didn't show. I'd assume, at the very least, given the number of "visibly native" who did show, 50.
And no one knows how many of the jury were actually native. There are plenty of natives that don't look "visibly" native.

[CharlesInCharge]

The Native Americans left on their own accord? What is your source that the excused wasnt because of Stanely's defence team?

[welfare]

Huh. An alternate account to what unfolded during the jury selection process for this trial. Interesting.

http://torontosun.com/news/national/malcolm-half-of-prospective-boushie-jurors-were-aboriginal-says-member-of-jury-pool


Almost half of the prospective jurors in the Colten Boushie case were Aboriginal persons, according to one member of the jury pool.

However, the reason there were no Aboriginal Canadians on the jury in this controversial case is because so many deliberately opted out of the process. Other First Nations prospective jurors, meanwhile, were openly and outwardly biased during the selection process, according to one prospective juror who spoke to the Sun.

The witness, who the Sun is choosing not to identify, was present for jury selection in the Boushie case. The person described the scene as a “large gymnasium turned into a courtroom” in Battleford, Saskatchewan.

Media reports state that 700 people received jury duty notice for the case, and of that, only about 200 showed up that Monday morning.

“I sat at the back and got a better idea of who was all there,” said the prospective juror. “On one side of the room, it was primarily Caucasian people, with a few Filipinos, a couple black people, and peppered in was a handful of First Nations people,” the person recalls.

“On the other side of the room, it was maybe three-quarters First Nations people,” the person said, estimating that approximately 85-100 of the initial 200 prospective jurors were Aboriginal.

The person explained the process that day, as a judge asked if anyone in the room wanted to be excused or disqualified from sitting on a jury in this case. Individuals with a conflict – a relationship with either family or a scheduling conflict – could request to be recused from being selected for the trial.

According to the prospective juror, who did not go on to serve on the jury, a significant number of Aboriginal people in the room asked to be disqualified, either because they had a relationship with Colten Boushie’s family or because of other circumstances that made them unavailable.

The person estimates that more than half of the Aboriginal people were granted permission by the judge to be exempt from the trial and free to go home.

As the prospective jury describes, some of the remaining 45 or so were vocal in expressing their bias and signalling to everyone in the room they were unfit to serve on the jury.

“You could audibly hear some of them talking amongst themselves, discussing how they were going to hang Stanley, or they were going to make sure he gets hung, or that if they don’t get the results they want, that they were going to handle it themselves,” the person said of the Aboriginal people who remained. This account comes from one individual who spoke with the Sun, and has not yet been corroborated by other witnesses.

“The thing that was the most shocking to me was the fact that they were so audible from where I was sitting (across the room) and there were police scattered throughout the room. No one stopped them.”

The jury’s acquittal elicited a variety of strong reactions from Canadians online. Over the weekend, lawyers and other experts criticized Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Justice Minister Jody Wilson-Raybould for issuing social media posts that appeared to criticize the jury’s decision.

On Monday, Wilson-Raybould said changes to jury selection were coming soon. “We are looking at peremptory challenges,” she said, also noting that those changes would aim to “substantially improve the criminal system and the jury selection process.”

But according to the prospective juror, the selection process was random and seemed fair. Of the remaining potential jurors, “everyone was assigned a number and they literally pulled numbers from a bucket. It was totally random,” the person said, whose own number was not selected.

Some media outlets have reported that every prospective juror who appeared to be Aboriginal was challenged and essentially vetoed by the defense council.

The prospective juror also dismissed that idea, suggesting the defence council challenged individuals who had made openly biased comments. Besides, the person added, “they were challenging white people too.”

[GabAlmighty]

Lol, trying to get a native to wake up early and attend court to be a juror. And show up every day when mandated, not be late, not be drunk.... Pardon my stereotypical racist infused view but I say that because of the high probably of truth. Are there those at the opposite end of the spectrum; fuck ya. But if you're trying to get some from rural Saskatchewan, or really rural anywhere... Ya good luck.

I did a job up in the high arctic and the safety crew (don't even get me going down this path) decided we needed bear monitors. They toured around to a lot of communities in the arctic to try and recruit bear monitors.

A bear monitor is literally a guy with a gun who's supposed to deter the wildlife, it's a fucking joke really. If you are native there are no prerequisites except maybe having a firearm license but don't quote me on that. And they make good money ($450/day I believe), way more than I make aviatin and I had my own gun so really didn't need the fuckers.

Now, they weren't able to recruit any people from the communities (my memory is fuzzy, they may indeed have snagged a couple.. Literally 1 or 2). The reason being? They all failed the fucking drug tests, they couldn't stay sober for one fucking day to piss in a cup. And I remember he said that some passed but they never heard from them again. I'm gonna throw a very rough number out but I think it was something like 30-40'ish people that they selected to be bear monitors and that needed to pass the drug test.