[Acura604]

Prepare to be absolutely RAPED this year in ICBC rate hikes.

Detailed report of ICBC operations coming this monday.

Mike Smyth: Shocking losses revealed at ICBC, huge rate hikes feared | The Province (http://theprovince.com/news/bc-politics/mike-smyth-shocking-massive-losses-revealed-at-icbc-huge-rate-hikes-feared)

NDP forced to make tough choices to avoid $400-a-year rate hike.
British Columbia’s public auto insurer has driven over a financial cliff and the damage is far worse than anyone had feared or predicted.

On Monday, ICBC will announce a staggering projected operating loss of $1.3 billion for the current fiscal year.

That’s more than $1 billion higher than projected just three months ago.

The financial hemorrhaging — the Insurance Corp. of B.C. is losing $3.5 million a day — could force massive premium hikes on B.C. drivers, and possibly tilt next month’s balanced provincial budget into a deficit.

An ICBC “statement of operations” for the nine-month period that ended on Dec. 31 shows a “net loss” of $935 million, and a projected total loss of $1.29 billion by the end of the current fiscal year on March 31.

“ICBC’s year-end loss is now projected to hit $1.3 billion,” says a private briefing note prepared for Attorney General David Eby. “Now, B.C. drivers are looking at a rate hike of at least $400 more in their premiums by next year unless we take immediate action to keep rates more affordable.”

The shocking losses are much higher than what was projected just three months ago, when the fiscal year-end loss was pegged at around $200 million.

“The dramatic increase in losses has been driven by the emergence of many large, extremely costly claims,” the briefing note says.

Eby earlier ordered ICBC to conduct a fresh review of unsettled auto-accident claims, many stretching back years, and provide a financial update to the corporation’s board of directors.

“While the rise in the number of claims and the associated costs are not new issues for ICBC, what has been unexpected is the degree of the cost escalation from these claims and the significant number of older claims — dating as far back as 2010 — that are now extremely costly.”

The ICBC board — chaired by former NDP finance minister Joy MacPhail — got the bad news at a meeting on Thursday that a source described as a “shock-and-awe moment.”

The meeting was told many claims originally classified by ICBC as “minor” have emerged as more complex and costly files known as “large-loss claims,” a category that has grown 80 per cent in the past year, and which cost an average of $450,000 each to settle.

The briefing note prepared for Eby, the minister responsible for ICBC, blamed the previous Liberal government for the mess.

“Years of bad decisions and mismanagement by the former government have meant a fiscally unsustainable position at ICBC,” the briefing note says. “We never expected to find this level of mismanagement by the previous government.”

The New Democrats are slamming the Liberals for not acting on recommendations contained in a 2014 report by consultants Ernst and Young.

The report called on the government to impose a cap on large court-ordered financial awards paid to victims who suffer “minor” soft-tissue injuries like whiplash in auto crashes. British Columbia is the only province in Canada where such awards are still unlimited.

But the Liberal government stripped the controversial recommendation out of the report before passing it on to ICBC.

“The response from government was, ‘We’re not prepared to consider that,’” former Liberal finance minister Mike de Jong told Postmedia. “There was no point presenting it as an option.”

But now the NDP says the Liberals’ inaction has plunged ICBC into a financial crisis.

“If action was taken, this situation could have been prevented,” Eby’s briefing note says.

A source tells me the NDP government now feels it is forced to move forward with the cap on injury claims and several other “aggressive” moves to slow down ICBC’s financial losses.

The measures include a tougher crackdown on distracted driving, expanded red-light cameras at intersections, increased insurance premiums for bad drivers and new rules to prevent ICBC from getting ripped off by price-inflating auto-body repair shops.

The moves will be controversial, and have already sparked a backlash by personal-injury lawyers, who started a campaign to fight financial caps.

“ICBC wants a cap system to solve their financial woes, but punishing victims is not the answer,” says the R.O.A.D. (Rights Over Arbitrary Decisions) B.C. campaign.

But the government said only “drastic” measures will prevent large insurance rate hikes of up to 20 per cent on drivers.

“The amount of basic insurance premiums ICBC is collecting from customers is not covering the increasing amount they are paying out in basic claims costs,” says the Eby briefing note.

The note also slams the Liberals for taking more than $1.2 billion out of ICBC’s accounts and transferring the “excess capital” into government coffers.

“ICBC’s year-end loss is now nearly the amount the former government siphoned out of ICBC while ignoring the needs of B.C. families.”

A government source told me the massive ICBC losses have left Finance Ministry officials scrambling ahead of the provincial budget, to be presented on Feb. 20 by Finance Minister Carole James.

James promised a balanced budget, but the source told me officials are now studying the “implications” of the ICBC losses on the commitment.

Hang on to your wallets. This one could get uglier.


only way out is to join this gang and start selling drugs!
https://postmediavancouversun2.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/brothers-keepers_1-jpg.jpg?w=580&quality=60&strip=all&zoom=2
https://postmediavancouversun2.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/brothers-keepers-jpg1.jpg?w=580&quality=60&strip=all&zoom=2

[VR6GTI]

Injury claims and hiring people that have no idea what they are doing costs them big time

[cdizzle_996]

Haha, graduated with 2 of those scum

[320icar]

Haha, graduated with 2 of those scum

They graduated?!?!

[Manic!]

3 of the people in the picture have died in the last 30 days.

[Manic!]

They graduated?!?!

Of course they have. They are brown.

[dapperfied]

Bro, das hectic. y u gotta xpose us like dat?

[Jmac]

Thanks Christy

[XplicitLuder]

friend who works at icbc told me it aint gonna be pretty lol :okay:

[Hondaracer]

Fucking blow up ICBC already ffs..

Like anything has got to be better than the current structure

[tegra7]

3 of the people in the picture have died in the last 30 days.

Source? One of them was killed in a North Van apartment, what about the other two?

[StanleyR]

Das my boy Rajput!

[yray]

didn't we get a surplus from the libs last year

oh wait, ndp spent it on making the portmann toll free

oh shit, what happened to portmann when it went toll free, idiots crashing into each other

10k medical claim incoming

[Mr.C]

I've got an open claim with them from when a red light runner hit me. I will be absolutely incensed if NDP fucks me over.

[Badhobz]

When are they Planning this rate hike !? Bunch of stinking crooks.

[Manic!]

Source? One of them was killed in a North Van apartment, what about the other two?

Same picture floating online with 3 people circled saying they are dead.

I think the kid on the far left is this guy.

Teen found in trunk of car is Vancouver?s third murder victim of 2018 | Vancouver Sun (http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/teen-found-in-trunk-of-car-is-vancouvers-third-murder-victim-of-2018)

[Tone Loc]

Good. Can't wait for the media to have a field day with this one, and hopefully shine more light on this terrible agency that screws BC drivers day in, day out. Let them burn. I lost all sympathy for ICBC after this article came out:

http://www.news1130.com/2014/04/24/icbc-and-rcmp-come-to-agreement-on-foreign-drivers-licences/

RICHMOND (NEWS1130) – It seems ICBC has gotten its way in a disagreement with the RCMP over how to deal with foreign driver’s licences in BC.

Mounties have been handing out $276 fines for several years, saying some licences can’t be verified. But ICBC has insisted the licences are valid because of allowances for new residents and visitors in the Motor Vehicle Act.

The insurance corporation says Mounties have agreed not to give out tickets to drivers who have licences that have been validly issued outside of BC, as long as the drivers meet the requirements of the Act.

The Motor Vehicle Act allows new residents to use their foreign licences for 90 days; temporary visitors can use them for up to six months.

ICBC says it will be working with police, sharing tools and expertise to help validate licences when a driver is pulled over.

Richmond RCMP have raised concerns about Chinese drivers licenses, saying there is no way to verify the licences because Canada and China don’t have an agreement to share information.

[asma123]

I really don't understand how is it possible that they are having these massive losses with the amount of revenue coming in. Seriously.
Time for private insurance has come.

[68style]

I don’t know why ICBC lets shops dictate the cost of repairs, my friend’s non-accredited shop can fix any car the same quality as an accredited shop for like 1/3rd the claim amount. What they pay out on damage claims to accredited shops is ridiculous.

[VR6GTI]

I don’t know why ICBC lets shops dictate the cost of repairs, my friend’s non-accredited shop can fix any car the same quality as an accredited shop for like 1/3rd the claim amount. What they pay out on damage claims to accredited shops is ridiculous.
Actually I know of a few shops that stopped doing Icbc work period because they don’t pay enough. $73/hr door rate lol. I hope whatever industry your in you charge even a cheaper rate maybe $45

[Manic!]

I really don't understand how is it possible that they are having these massive losses with the amount of revenue coming in. Seriously.
Time for private insurance has come.

Do you know how much private insurance costs in other provinces?

[fliptuner]

Do you know how much private insurance costs in other provinces?

Based on my age and driving record, a hell of a lot cheaper than here.

[Tone Loc]

Do you know how much private insurance costs in other provinces?

Based on my age and driving record, a hell of a lot cheaper than here.

I can confirm. I moved to Mississauga from Vancouver and I save $100 per month on car insurance. Mississauga is actually known in the Southern Ontario area as one of the more expensive areas, too.

$300.42 from ICBC for a 2011 Acura TSX, 40% discount and full coverage.
$200.83 from Aviva for the same car with full coverage.

My best friend lives in Niagara and pays just over $1200 per year for a 2013 Tacoma with full coverage as well. Private insurance.

What I like about private insurance is that you can bundle it with renter's insurance for an even bigger discount. And that you get another discount for having snow tires on your vehicle, which IMO is a really good idea. Not to mention the $1200 I save each year gets me a nice vacation.

Btw, neither of us are 25 yet. After that age, that's when the insurance rates really drop....

[ssjGoku69]

I was under the impression (based on previous threads) that private insurance premiums would be cheaper (because of increased competition), but it could be painful to get the offending party's insurance company to pay?

Can someone with experience with free-market auto insurance include their 2 cents on getting claims paid?

[Jmac]

On average, two of the three highest insurance rates in Canada over the past decade have been the ones with exclusively private insurance (Ontario, Alberta). BC passed Alberta since the Liberals started using crown corporation cash reserves to balance budgets several years ago.

The cheapest insurance is in provinces with public-only or public-private systems, with Quebec, the Maritime provinces, and Saskatchewan routinely the lowest.

[Reeyal]

On average, two of the three highest insurance rates in Canada over the past decade have been the ones with exclusively private insurance (Ontario, Alberta). [...]

You may be right on the average insurance when compared to other provinces. However, I live in Alberta, and for me personally, I find it way lower after I moved from BC. I believe insurance premiums with private insurance companies are greatly based on your driving habits.

Many many years ago, I was paying $2700/yr for my car. For the same car, after I moved to AB, insurance companies were quoting $3500/yr for the same comparable coverage. The huge jump was because I was under 25, as explained by the agents. As soon as I turned 25 a couple of months later, my premium had dropped to $1100. By the time I got rid of the same car years later, I was paying $800. During the time I owned the car, I had 1 comprehensive claim and 1 ticket on my driving record.

[smoothie.]

waiting for all the anti-private people to post in here like:

"no, itll be more expensive"
"icbc has better processes for claims"
etcetc

If they do it right, and not re-hire icbc folk (which, lets face it, they might) it'll be a good thing, and way overdue.

[MarkyMark]

I keep hearing about how much worse private insurance rates are, but I have a hard time believing private insurance will be more than ICBC for those of us who have 15-20 years of driving with no accidents/minimal tickets.

[J____]

huge loss? then declare bankruptcy and shut down already. No one likes you icbc.

[Berzerker]

Why isn't anyone pointing out the fact that it's the government that has made ICBC broke. It's NOT the claims and the payouts. It's the fact the government's have been using ICBC as a piggy bank for years. ICBC used to be a hugely profitable company. Then the governments couldn't resist the piggy bank and starting using the money. Now it's broke because it can't actually pay out the claims when all the money has been siphoned off and used elsewhere.

Berz out.

[dapperfied]

Let them rot in hell.

[Manic!]

I was under the impression (based on previous threads) that private insurance premiums would be cheaper (because of increased competition), but it could be painful to get the offending party's insurance company to pay?

Can someone with experience with free-market auto insurance include their 2 cents on getting claims paid?

I would be cheaper for people with perfect records. But if you have one speeding or an accident know one is going to want to touch you with a 10 foot pole.

[The Producer]

governments blaming previous governments every damn time.

it's THE government - you're just new employees. Put the billion dollars back, and let's move on.

though I'm certainly in favour of capping settlements. accidents aren't lotto wins.

[Traum]

Why isn't anyone pointing out the fact that it's the government that has made ICBC broke. It's NOT the claims and the payouts. It's the fact the government's have been using ICBC as a piggy bank for years. ICBC used to be a hugely profitable company. Then the governments couldn't resist the piggy bank and starting using the money. Now it's broke because it can't actually pay out the claims when all the money has been siphoned off and used elsewhere.
THANK YOU, Berz! While I am skeptical of how convenient the financial loss came out to be -- with the Libs takning out $1B while the crown corp suffers a $1.3B loss -- the facts for anyone who has really been following ICBC's financial demise knew that the former Liberals gov has been milking ICBC's $$$$ for all it is worth. And now, I see all kinds of people saying it is ICBC's fault that they can't stop a greedy government from reaching into its cookie jar and stealing all the goodies? Come on, people! Know the real and root cause of the issue, and direct your fury there!

[ScizzMoney]

I pay $1600 a year to insure my 2013 BMW 3 series sedan. I'm 35 years old, clean driving record. This is in Calgary, not sure what I'd pay in BC.

[Qmx323]

THANK YOU, Berz! While I am skeptical of how convenient the financial loss came out to be -- with the Libs takning out $1B while the crown corp suffers a $1.3B loss -- the facts for anyone who has really been following ICBC's financial demise knew that the former Liberals gov has been milking ICBC's $$$$ for all it is worth. And now, I see all kinds of people saying it is ICBC's fault that they can't stop a greedy government from reaching into its cookie jar and stealing all the goodies? Come on, people! Know the real and root cause of the issue, and direct your fury there!

Can there only be one reason why ICBC is going broke?

A dam doesn't break because one man pissed a few miles upriver, but if a shitload of shops are over billing ICBC for their work I can see how that can be a major contributing factor.

[Traum]

though I'm certainly in favour of capping settlements. accidents aren't lotto wins.
On a humanitarian level, I cannot agree to that. What we need is a more stringent audit system to stop and prevent fraud.

That and a premium system that reflects the driver's risk and costs of repair for the insured vehicle. Our high risks drivers are paying too little right now, and insurance premiums are way too low for the high end cars.

[Traum]

Can there only be one reason why ICBC is going broke?

A dam doesn't break because one man pissed a few miles upriver, but if a shitload of shops are over billing ICBC for their work I can see how that can be a major contributing factor.
Of course there are a multitude of reasons for ICBC's financial woes. The insurance corp is far, far, far from perfect, and many things need to be cleaned up.

Looking at the math that AG David Eby has presented though -- $1.3B loss, with the Libs transferring almost $1B into provincial revenues and not disclosing that until it gets uncovered by the NDP now. Out of the $1.3B pie, is $1B the bigger piece? or is $300M bigger?

If I were going to direct my anger at something, I am going to channel 77% of it to the Libs, and 23% to ICBC. Judging by the general public's comments, however, it seems like well over 1/2 of the people with pitchforks are crying for the demolishing of ICBC and introduce private insurance.

[Harvey Specter]

Rate hikes, mobility tax, gas tax, hell lets just hike and tax everything to pay for the clutterfuck called ICBC.

[320icar]

though I'm certainly in favour of capping settlements. accidents aren't lotto wins.

I was in an at fault accident about a decade ago. Somewhat minor, no real injury. The air bag did deploy in the other car though. Neither person in the other car was wearing their seatbelt (typical Richmond. The firefighters on scene took note of it).

About 3 years later I got a letter from ICBC saying I was being sued for over $2,000,000 for damages. Obviously the letter just said ‘don’t worry, our lawyers are on it and if you don’t hear anything further, we settled’.

A few thousand for repair somehow turns into over $2mil. Society is fucked and do treat it like a lottery

[yray]

the more I look at it, this maybe a move by the libs to fuck ndp over.

Declare surplus just before election, if libs win, throw it back into icbc and its good news. Lose the election and ndp will of course spend it on stupid shit to 'win the votes' now ndp is left with a steaming pile of shit LOL.

[Traum]

I was in an at fault accident about a decade ago. Somewhat minor, no real injury. The air bag did deploy in the other car though. Neither person in the other car was wearing their seatbelt (typical Richmond. The firefighters on scene took note of it).

About 3 years later I got a letter from ICBC saying I was being sued for over $2,000,000 for damages. Obviously the letter just said ‘don’t worry, our lawyers are on it and if you don’t hear anything further, we settled’.

A few thousand for repair somehow turns into over $2mil. Society is fucked and do treat it like a lottery
I hope the other party got a hefty cut to their payouts. If you are not wearing your seatbelts, you owe it to yourself and your stupidity for your injuries.

[prudz]

Do you know how much private insurance costs in other provinces?

Far less than here.

List of vehicles with TD Meloche Monex in Alberta, full coverage, rental etc

-Jeep Patriot
-3 series bmw
-boosted honda prelude
-r6

total yearly premium for all 4 with a clean record, 1 speeding ticket. $1300 a year. Yes, only $1300 for all 4 of those per year. That's what I was paying in Alberta.

Out here... 2000 integra, basic liability, lowest insurance possible. WITH 40% discount!!

$2220 ($185 a month)

What a joke.

[teggy604]

Why isn't anyone pointing out the fact that it's the government that has made ICBC broke. It's NOT the claims and the payouts. It's the fact the government's have been using ICBC as a piggy bank for years. ICBC used to be a hugely profitable company. Then the governments couldn't resist the piggy bank and starting using the money. Now it's broke because it can't actually pay out the claims when all the money has been siphoned off and used elsewhere.

Berz out.

Yup. NDP made icbc non profit so all money goes back into icbc, then the liberals came along and changed that and drained icbc dry. I believe I read somewhere that icbc still owns a lot of assets as well to generate income. Time to sell those off and return icbc back to non profit.

[Jmac]

Why isn't anyone pointing out the fact that it's the government that has made ICBC broke. It's NOT the claims and the payouts. It's the fact the government's have been using ICBC as a piggy bank for years. ICBC used to be a hugely profitable company. Then the governments couldn't resist the piggy bank and starting using the money. Now it's broke because it can't actually pay out the claims when all the money has been siphoned off and used elsewhere.

Berz out.
I did ... just saying

[Hakkaboy]

Of course there are a multitude of reasons for ICBC's financial woes. The insurance corp is far, far, far from perfect, and many things need to be cleaned up.

Looking at the math that AG David Eby has presented though -- $1.3B loss, with the Libs transferring almost $1B into provincial revenues and not disclosing that until it gets uncovered by the NDP now. Out of the $1.3B pie, is $1B the bigger piece? or is $300M bigger?

If I were going to direct my anger at something, I am going to channel 77% of it to the Libs, and 23% to ICBC. Judging by the general public's comments, however, it seems like well over 1/2 of the people with pitchforks are crying for the demolishing of ICBC and introduce private insurance.

I don't have all the facts, but it sounds more that the Liberals took out the $1B over time of "excess capital", meaning that when ICBC was profitable, Liberal took away their surplus over the years

If that's the case, then the the $1.3B loss is all on ICBC since that's the projected loss for this fiscal year.

But yes, if Liberals did not take the $1B, then ICBC are better equiped to absorb this year's $1.3B loss, but that does not mean the next year is all of a sudden going to be better without major changes or that they are "only" $300M to blame

[snowball]

The liberals were out to destroy ICBC and make it so bad that everyone would beg for privatization. Same thing they've been trying to do with public education for 15 years. Don't privatize, we'll just be giving them what they've been wanting to do all along.

[Traum]

IIRC, the way the prev Liberals gov was taking money out of ICBC's reserves was at least against ICBC's own rules / bylaws, or possibly against the provincial laws. I seem to remmeber that ICBC is governed by laws requiring them to maintain a certain threshold of money on hand, as a hedge of some sort against their possible and outstanding liabilities (ie. the claims). However, the way the Libs were taking money out made it such that the ICBC reserves fell below the legally mandated amounts.

When the Libs did that, wasn't that breaking the law? How can they not be held accountable for it, either morally or criminally?

[Jmac]

IIRC, the way the prev Liberals gov was taking money out of ICBC's reserves was at least against ICBC's own rules / bylaws, or possibly against the provincial laws. I seem to remmeber that ICBC is governed by laws requiring them to maintain a certain threshold of money on hand, as a hedge of some sort against their possible and outstanding liabilities (ie. the claims). However, the way the Libs were taking money out made it such that the ICBC reserves fell below the legally mandated amounts.

When the Libs did that, wasn't that breaking the law? How can they not be held accountable for it, either morally or criminally?
Liberals changed the law in 2010.

The cash reserved also generated fairly substantial gains via investment, so if you’re making ~10% on $1B every year instead of borrowing money and paying interest ...

I covered it in previous threads, but prior to the law change, ICBC rates were pretty much static. It didn’t take long for ICBC rates to balloon to the highest in the country, no coincidence.

[RRxtar]

everyone likes to blame the liberals for pulling cash out of icbc.

how about lets see the real numbers

ICBC net profit for each year, plus a list of the amount of money the liberals allegedly pulled out each year.

i may be wrong but i think the number that keeps getting thrown around as to what the liberals pulled out was the amount over several years, not just in the last year. $1.3billion in deficits in one year, a lot of that is on ICBC.

and for what its worth, i fully believe claim costs are a big factor in this. how much more expensive is it to fix a minor fender bender with LED lights, radars and cameras and, fancy materials, etc compared to 10 years ago? plus everyone looks at a fender bender as winning the lottery and they deserve their $10,000 for 'suffering' a stiff neck for 10 minutes.


edit: i posted this in the last thread, after doing some research on the topic

Cost of claims has doubled from 3billion to 5.9billion from 2013 to 2017. At the same time, Revenue has rose from 3.9billion to 6.1billion. I think that is a much bigger factor than the couple hundred million the government transferred out per year.

It should also be noted that ICBC has been allowed to invest capital and I believe has had a higher return on that investment than the money transferred to the government.

[Jmac]

There’s no fucking way ICBC made more than $778M in investment returns between 2010 and 2012 ...

And what do you mean by allegedly? It’s documented and public record.

[Traum]

i may be wrong but i think the number that keeps getting thrown around as to what the liberals pulled out was the amount over several years, not just in the last year. $1.3billion in deficits in one year, a lot of that is on ICBC.

This is true -- from every reading that I've done, the $1B number is a cumulative number that the Libs have taken out from ICBC. What is not clear to me is, how many years or which years was it that added up to $1B?

Another important fact not to be overlooked is how the Libs have conveniently sweeped this $1B number under the carpet and out of the radar for an X number of years. It is open (and reported) knowledge that the Libs have been siphoning money from ICBC into general revenues. However, nobody knows until now that $1B of that debt has been swept aside. As the government party, where is their responsibility to both ICBC and the BC residents?


Cost of claims has doubled from 3billion to 5.9billion from 2013 to 2017. At the same time, Revenue has rose from 3.9billion to 6.1billion. I think that is a much bigger factor than the couple hundred million the government transferred out per year.

From the numbers you've dug up, I am seeing a 97% increase in costs of repairs, and a 56% increase in revenues. The 40% difference in those numbers is not a good sign to be sure -- nobody ever said ICBC was perfect. But it is nowhere nearly as bad as being in a $1B hole.

So for me, the majority of the blame remains with the Libs. They need to be held accountable for what they have done. (ICBC also needs to be held accountable for their shoddy operations, but they are the smaller bad guy for the moment.)

[RRxtar]

im pretty sure when this thread was brought up in the fall i spent some time and found ICBCs financial records for each year going back to about 2010 i think (but i cant 100% remember) including showing how much dividends were transfered to the government or it may have been in the provincial government budget.

regardless, the financials were pretty easy to find and they provided alot more information than what the media does.

[supafamous]

im pretty sure when this thread was brought up in the fall i spent some time and found ICBCs financial records for each year going back to about 2010 i think (but i cant 100% remember) including showing how much dividends were transfered to the government or it may have been in the provincial government budget.

regardless, the financials were pretty easy to find and they provided alot more information than what the media does.

ICBC is 'on the path to insolvency' and there's no clear fix - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/icbc-crisis-ndp-1.4245833)

This article says $1.2B since 2012 and it was published about 5 months ago.

[DoughBoy]

Same picture floating online with 3 people circled saying they are dead.

I think the kid on the far left is this guy.

Teen found in trunk of car is Vancouver?s third murder victim of 2018 | Vancouver Sun (http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/teen-found-in-trunk-of-car-is-vancouvers-third-murder-victim-of-2018)

Lol dhooooooot

[donk.]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/000/894/wahmbulance.jpg

[RRxtar]

So 1.2 billion since 2012 made them 1.3 billion in the hole this year. Okay.jpg

[Acura604]

get ready for anal rape so extreme u will be bleeding for months.



Tomorrow's budget will likely include more bad news for BC drivers (http://www.news1130.com/2018/02/19/budget-bc-icbc-hike-likely/)

VANCOUVER (NEWS 1130) – What might tomorrow’s budget might mean for drivers across BC?

Thanks to ICBC recording losses of more than billion dollars this fiscal year, premiums are expected to climb again. But there’s no word on how much they will rise.

Attorney General David Eby, who’s now responsible for that Crown corporation, says Finance Minister Carole James really has no choice.


“What people are going to see in the budget on Tuesday is the impact of what happened when government didn’t address these out of control issues that now, because ICBC is losing so much money, it’s having a knock-on effect on vital provincial programs — the money that we hoped to put into different initiatives has been compromised.”

Eby has described the situation as a “financial dumpster fire.” He is again blaming the former Liberal government for failing to make improvements more than three years ago.

“The only options that we have in relation to the crisis we face at ICBC is either get the costs down or increase rates and that’s a direct consequence of government not taking action in 2014 to get ICBC under control — instead to clip pages out of a report and refuse to disclose it to the public. The report that said they needed to take that action.”

Eby is referring to an Ernst and Young document which recommended capping payouts for minor injuries. Starting next year, compensation for those claims will be limited to $5,500.

Any increase the finance minister puts forward must be approved by the BC Utilities Commission.

In November, basic auto insurance rates went up more than six per cent, averaging out to about $60 per driver.

[subordinate]

...... Fuck.

[freakshow]

Nothing pisses me off more than talking to my friends/family who work at ICBC, WorkSafe or CBSA (and probably every other crown/pseudo-crown corp if i had more friends). They just hemorrhage money like crazy

[snowfarmer]

Dodged a bullet, looks like ICBC premiums not going up in the budget, capping pain and suffering payouts for soft tissue (read: unverifiable) injuries. It's still a pretty lefty budget but at least we're not going to get pillaged any harder for insurance on cars and bikes.

[320icar]

Nothing pisses me off more than talking to my friends/family who work at ICBC, WorkSafe or CBSA (and probably every other crown/pseudo-crown corp if i had more friends). They just hemorrhage money like crazy

Bc hydro is inspecting some piping down the street from me last week and this week. I walk by on my way to work everyday. Big hydro van idling in the street (with a generator running), two pickup trucks idling with no one in it. A traffic controller company with a pickup truck idling (with no one in it) 6 bc hydro staff standing around the van / trucks, one looking at papers, 4 on their cell phones and two talking to each other shooting the shit. The two traffic controller employees each on their phone.

It’s safe to assume each person is earning at least $35/hr. Every day I walk by and see the amount of wasted money and it makes me sick. That is one corner of one street in one city from a whole province.....

[van_city23]

Dodged a bullet, looks like ICBC premiums not going up in the budget, capping pain and suffering payouts for soft tissue (read: unverifiable) injuries. It's still a pretty lefty budget but at least we're not going to get pillaged any harder for insurance on cars and bikes.

ICBC rates are going up but no mention on increase for premiums for bad drivers.

Rates go up 6.4% and they'll still cap injuries. Funny thing is that ppl actually believe cap on injuries will freeze icbc rates. Rates will only keep increasing, just means more money for the gov to work with.

In January 2018, the British Columbia Utilities Commission (BCUC) approved ICBC's 2017 application for a basic rate increase of 6.4 per cent. This is an average increase of $4.75 per month for personal customers’ basic insurance coverage. These new rates became effective November 1, 2017, on an interim basis with the BCUC’s approval.

BCUC rates (http://www.icbc.com/autoplan/costs/Pages/rate-pressures.aspx)

[snowfarmer]

Yes but that rate increase was already determined and was not part of the provincial budget announced today. I was worried we’d see more increases as part of the budget to offset the $1.3B ICBC deficit.

[Traum]

Well, that $1.3B ICBC deficit isn't going anywhere any time soon, so it isn't like we dodged a bullet for now -- it's just that the guy with the gun hasn't shot yet. We are still in the point blank range. FailFish

[TouringTeg]

ICBC Rate Fairness | Government of British Columbia (http://engage.gov.bc.ca/ratefairness/)

Lots of info to process here as the engagement process begins.

For me I would be happy if I could get a 10% discount for driving under 5000kms per year. I would be happy to provide odometer proof.



"We want to make auto insurance rates more fair, and we want your feedback.

The B.C. government and ICBC want to introduce changes to the current system to make insurance rates more fair for British Columbians by making all drivers more accountable for their decisions and driving behaviour.

The model ICBC uses to help determine insurance rates is more than 30 years old. While it has seen some improvements over the years, it is out of date. This means that right now some drivers are paying more and others are paying less than the risk they represent.

British Columbians have been saying for years that the system would be more fair if lower risk drivers paid less for their insurance, and higher risk drivers paid more. We agree. Currently, most high-risk drivers are not paying enough to cover the future risks they represent on our roads.

As a result, we’re looking at changing the way insurance rates are determined for all vehicle owners, excluding those who have fleet vehicles.

Get involved

We want to know what you think of some of the changes being considered.

There are several ways to participate:
•Complete the online questionnaire on this site.
•Submit your feedback by email or mail.
•Organizations and experts can make submissions that will be posted to this site.

Your feedback will help design an improved auto insurance rating system for British Columbians, and help inform ICBC’s application on Basic insurance rate design to its regulator, the British Columbia Utilities Commission.

Feedback will be collected between March 5 and April 5, 2018 at 4pm."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs9tqKY-YyA&feature=youtu.be

[Badhobz]

^^^ Thanks Teg

https://interceptum.com/s/en/icbcratefairness <--- Link to Survey

Buddies of mine just sent me this survey. pretty interesting stuff. it looks like ICBC wanna charge "bad drivers" more and at fault claims will increase rates.

[heleu]

I just filled out the survey, took 15 minutes.

Everyone should fill this out. I don't want to hear any more whining about ICBC.

[UnknownJinX]

Yep, I have done the survey.

Shared it on Facebook as well. Normally I am not one for sharing stuff on FB, but this is an exception.

[ImportPsycho]

Do you still accumulate discount starting the day you get your DL? even without any cars registered under you name?
I remember getting like 30% discount on my insurance for my first car .
That was almost 20yrs ago so not sure if they changed it.

[AstulzerRZD]

^^^ Thanks Teg

https://interceptum.com/s/en/icbcratefairness <--- Link to Survey

Buddies of mine just sent me this survey. pretty interesting stuff. it looks like ICBC wanna charge "bad drivers" more and at fault claims will increase rates.

Another outcome I got from that survey was they were moving towards driver based insurance as well. I.e. all drivers must be listed or explicitly excluded (Ontario often requires this for high risk drivers) with penalties for not listing drivers.

[inv4zn]

^I know so many people whose children have insurance under their names because it saves on insurance. I then remind them if the kid gets into an accident ICBC will not honour insurance...some listen and change policy, most don't.

I took the survey as well, and I liked how they split up into low-risk and high-risk.

If you have the occasional speeding or lane change w/out signaling ticket, fine whatever.
But if you have 4 excessive speedings in 2 years then you damn well can offset my insurance, or don't fucking drive. The current point based premium system isn't big enough of a deterrent. I'm glad they're at least trying to address it.

[RRxtar]

From that survey it looks like ICBC already has their plans figured out and they're hoping to get enough positive results from the survey to go ahead with them.

I really really like the idea of accidents following drivers, not vehicles. I think Manitoba does that.

It looks like ICBC is going to move towards a private insurance model where your insurance is going to go way up if you have tickets, etc.

It looks like they're considering removing the ability to pay off an accident and not have a claim against you. I dont like this, as their threshold in the survey is $2000. It takes literally nothing to do $2000 damage in a light fender bender now. Mirrors and Headlights are over $1000 now, when they were hardly $100 15 years ago.

There are a lot of questions pertaining to having someone borrow your car and get in an accident. It looks like they're considering fining vehicle owners for lending their car and not declaring the operator. That would be a massive pain in the ass to constantly be updating a list of people who might drive your car. The answers to the question on what the penalty would be don't let you select $0, so you can bet their 'findings' will say "people support a penalty".


I like the idea of increasing premiums for high risk drivers. However, it is a fine line labeling high risk drivers and Im afraid ICBC is going to say anyone without a perfect record is high risk when in reality high risk might actually catch 10% of drivers on the road. It already looks like this as their survey says 1/3rd of drivers are going to see an increase due to their risk factors. If this ends up where someone in a scenario of one 50/50 fender bender accident and one speeding ticket in the last 10 years sees a rate increase, it looks like an unfair cash grab.

[teggy604]

At least they are asking for our feedback instead of going with their own agenda thinking what they do is correct then shoving it down our throats.

[320icar]

I had one at fault accident 9 years ago. I better not get fucked over

[MarkyMark]

I like the direction they are going in but I hope they go after people who cause accidents more than people who just get tickets. Getting a couple tickets in a 3 year span shouldn't necessarily fuck you up the ass in rate hikes compared to someone who had a couple at fault accidents in the same time frame. I've only had one ticket in my 16 years on the road so I'm not trying to save myself from anything, just my thoughts on it.

[BIC_BAWS]

I like the idea of all drivers must be listed. Like others, I know friends who always use their parents' names as owner/primary operator. On the other hand, the survey talks about risk levels, but there can be drivers who have never been caught, but caused an accident. For example, if some idiot cuts you off, and you swerve and end up into a pole, that's your fault. Not the idiot's negligence.

[Badhobz]

I think this survey is some sort of faux gauge of the public's opinion. Im almost 99% sure ICBC will do the following

1) jack up the rates for everyone
2) try and recover revenues by any means necessary (whether thats dinging drivers with tickets/at fault accidents/whatever)

So either way we are getting fucked, but exactly how much and when will be the deciding factor. I SINCERELY doubt that some of us will see a premium decrease... no fucking chance.

[DragonChi]

LOL, in the survey, raising speeding ticket fines from 175 to 210.

I think they're testing the waters to see how much push back they're going to get for doing the proposed items.

[320icar]

In the final page where you can leave comments, what suggestions did you leave?

- offer larger discounts for single drivers with multiple vehicles; I can’t drive more than one at a time, so why pay full all the time on 3/4/5 vehicles.
- offer discounts for advanced driver/rider training such as track day lessons etc
- get rid of international licenses
- mandatory seniors retesting

Can’t remember what else I put on

[The Producer]

In the final page where you can leave comments, what suggestions did you leave?

- offer larger discounts for single drivers with multiple vehicles; I can’t drive more than one at a time, so why pay full all the time on 3/4/5 vehicles.
- offer discounts for advanced driver/rider training such as track day lessons etc
- get rid of international licenses
- mandatory seniors retesting

Can’t remember what else I put on

Just this one - but I like what else you've got here.
There are some discounts to be had on your optional insurance with additional driver training. BMWCCBC is hooked up with Canadian Direct (at least they used to be)

[DragonChi]

I did not leave any comments. I couldn't think of any other than what the survey was implying. I like the comments you put down though.

I also like how they're moving towards the focus of driver based insurance pricing and for profit alignment policies.

I'm surprised that they did not cap injury claims. Reading their annual report they will not be transferring funds to the BC government from 2016 to 2020 due their financial situation. They seem to be moving in the right direction to get out of this hole.

[jasonturbo]

http://www.icbc.com/about-icbc/newsroom/Documents/quick-statistics.pdf

According to ICBC, 300,000 collisions in 2015, 58,000 of which resulted in a injury or fatality.

https://www.transportation.alberta.ca/Content/docType47/Production/AR2015.pdf

According to the Gov. of Alberta, 140,705 collisions in 2015, 18,237 of which resulted in a injury or fatality.

What does that data tell us?

The population of BC in 2015 was 4,694,000

4,694,000 / 300,000 = 1 in 15 people were involved in a collision in 2015

58,000 / 300,000 injury or fatality claims = 1 in 5 people involved in a collision in 2015 were injured or killed

The population of Alberta in 2015 was 4,177,000

4,177,000 / 140,705 = 1 in 30 people were involved in a collision in 2015

140,705 collisions / 18,237 = 1 in 8 people involved in a collision in 2015 were injured or killed

Conclusion:

BC residents are 200% more likely to be involved in collision than residents of Alberta

BC residents are 60% more likely to be injured or killed in a collision than residents of Alberta

Opinion:

Consider that my insurance premiums are virtually identical in BC and Alberta, the delta between premiums is +/-10%.

So why is it that ICBC is in the RED? Because ICBC is systematically abused by residents putting in injury claims, and the local legal community know exactly how to play the game, it's well established.

In Alberta it's a fucking nightmare trying to get paid out for any pain or suffering, the soft tissue injury cap was introduced many years ago to systematically grind out claims that were less than authentic.

There is a strong cultural phenomenon in BC in which people are encouraged to submit injury claims knowing there is an easy 25-50k payout. It's sickening how many people I know that have personally submitted bogus injury claims, and what's worse is the "friends and family abuse ICBC support group" mentality where everyone convinces you that it's a good idea to put in a claim.

The end result - ICBC in the RED. Thank your friends and neighbours for their bogus injury claims, the only possible path forward is a major premium hike.

[Traum]

Jason,

While I thoroughly appreciate the numbers and stats you dug up, I have come up with quite a different conclusion than you do. Looking at your conclusion #1 alone:

Conclusion:

BC residents are 200% more likely to be involved in collision than residents of Alberta

BC residents are 60% more likely to be injured or killed in a collision than residents of Alberta

Here in BC, we have some pretty fxxking horrible shxt drivers who gets into 2x more accidents per capita than Alberta. It is already a fxxking miracle that our insurance rates aren't more than 2x as much as what Alberta pays.

And people still complain that ICBC and the public system sucks? Gimme a break!

[DragonChi]

LOL, wait a couple more years, if the 1 billion deficit continues, we'll get to twice the rate. :LUL:

[jasonturbo]

I can appreciate that the increase in the number of collisions per resident can be attributed to certain demographics etc. (IE: Mainlanders with phoney licenses).

However, I cannot rationalize that by crossing an imaginary line in the rockies you are somehow 60% more likely to be injured or killed in a car accident.

Both factors would obviously impact the total value of claims paid out, though there are mitigating measures that address the cost impact associated with the number of collisions per resident. These measures are the discounts and surcharges ICBC places on drivers. For every collision that occurs someone is found at fault and their premiums are adjusted accordingly due to their perceived risk as a driver.

There are no mitigating measure to address "victims" that have had multiple expensive soft tissue injury claims. This is cost that cannot be controlled by ICBC, it needs to be addressed by legislation.

[ScizzMoney]

BC has twice as many visible minorities than Alberta :fullofwin:



https://i.imgur.com/DCCifuU.jpg

I kid, I kid. Just trying to trigger some of y'all

[UnknownJinX]

BC has twice as many visible minorities than Alberta :fullofwin:



https://i.imgur.com/DCCifuU.jpg

I kid, I kid. Just trying to trigger some of y'all

Well, even if you are trying to say that VM is a factor(which, sadly, it kind of is), I think you should look at the last numbers. Absolute numbers mean little, while relative numbers matter. In that case, the ratio of VM vs. the total population of BC is 1.5x of that of Alberta.

I do still think it's BS that ICBC admits Chinese(or Korean and any other countries with a not-so-strict licensing system) driving license. Aside from the fake licenses, bribery is still a problem in some cities in China, which means even if the license is legit, it can be tricky to tell how good they are at driving. I and my Chinese buddies will even make jokes about how a bad driver "bought" their license if we see one on the road, LOL.

[snowball]

[url]

4,694,000 / 300,000 = 1 in 15 people were involved in a collision in 2015



Technically it's double because 300,000 collisions means 600,000 drivers! I don't know the number of accidents per driver but I've been driving for almost 20 years and I've been at fault for no accidents, but been hit 3 times. I imagine there are many drivers at fault for multiple accidents causing multiple injury claims.

[Qmx323]

Technically it's double because 300,000 collisions means 600,000 drivers! I don't know the number of accidents per driver but I've been driving for almost 20 years and I've been at fault for no accidents, but been hit 3 times. I imagine there are many drivers at fault for multiple accidents causing multiple injury claims.

Does that stat not include single vehicle accidents?

[snowball]

Does that stat not include single vehicle accidents?

It might but they are not as frequent but it all balances out as some accidents have multiple injuries per vehicle too, but I get his point.

[Acura604]

ICBC spends $800,000 in damage claims for Ferrari that crashed into pole | The Province (http://theprovince.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/icbc-spends-800000-in-damage-claims-for-ferrari-that-crashed-into-pole/wcm/67854e30-c1d4-471a-9fb7-5836783413a6)

VANCOUVER — British Columbia’s public insurer says it has spent $789,375 in damage claims for a Ferrari that crashed into a pole.

The Insurance Corp. of B.C. is embroiled in a court battle over the claims and repairs, which it says could cost more than $982,000 in total.

According to documents filed in B.C. Supreme Court, the plaintiff accidentally drove the 1990 Ferrari F40 into a utility pole on Sept. 9, 2012, leaving it badly damaged. The repairs have not yet been completed.

The driver is arguing that ICBC has breached an implied duty to process his claim and carry out the repairs in good faith and a timely manner.

“He alleges further that ICBC acted in bad faith in refusing, at least for a time, to approve and arrange the needed repair work and that delay has caused him various kinds of harm,” a judgment in the case reads.


Following an investigation, ICBC eventually admitted coverage and has agreed to cover most of the cost of repairs. But it says it has already paid enough toward the claim, since its payments exceed the cash value of the car — which an arbitrator pinned at $696,061 in 2014.

The case is ongoing.

Last week, the province introduced an online survey on major shifts being considered to modernize ICBC.

The provincial budget forecast a $1.3-billion deficit at the Crown corporation this year and Attorney General David Eby has described the situation as a “dumpster fire” he says he inherited by the former Liberal government.

An Ernst and Young report commissioned by the Liberals last year suggested charging higher rates for luxury vehicles, among a suite of options for reducing losses at ICBC.

[dapperfied]

BC government looks to raise insurance rates for bad drivers

BC government looks to raise insurance rates for bad drivers - NEWS 1130 (http://www.news1130.com/2018/05/17/bc-government-looks-raise-insurance-rates-bad-drivers/)

[invader]

I just renewed my car insurance today FeelsBadMan

[Jmac]

BC government looks to raise insurance rates for bad drivers

BC government looks to raise insurance rates for bad drivers - NEWS 1130 (http://www.news1130.com/2018/05/17/bc-government-looks-raise-insurance-rates-bad-drivers/)
The government admits feedback was mixed when it came to the exact penalty amount drivers should pay if a crash is caused by an unlisted driver, as well as whether “distance driven should play a greater role in determining insurance rates.”
Why are they even asking the public this? Shouldn't they have decades worth of data to show how much more likely you are to be in an accident based on driving distance?

[Traum]

Whatever happened to the part where good drivers pay less? Making bad drivers pay more isn't the same as making good drivers pay less.

[twitchyzero]

they're bleeding a billion
you really believe a crown corp will cut existing revenue?

[VR6GTI]

The crown corp needs to get rid of the useless staff members they have.

[VR6GTI]

Looks like they one up’d me by hiring 40 new estimators. Costing the tax payers over 3 million dollars a year. What a waste of money.