[Whatheshrek]

The B.C. government will raise the Metro Vancouver gasoline tax by 1.5 cents per litre by next spring in order to pay for regional transportation improvements.Burnaby Mayor Derek Corrigan, who chairs TransLink’s Mayors’ Council, said the council and board received word about the funding source from Minister of Municipal Affairs Selina Robinson on Wednesday, the day before the board and mayors were set to vote on the funding plan for the second phase of its 10-year transportation plan.

Corrigan called it “a last-minute but noteworthy” revision to the plan.

“I know some will see this as a surprising or big change, but I will add that we have been talking about this plan for a long time,” Corrigan said.

The gas tax increase, from 17 cents per litre to 18.5 cents per litre, will provide TransLink with between $30 million and $33 million in revenue per year for the Phase 2 investment plan.


The ambitious $7.3-billion second phase of the 10-year plan includes projects such as the construction of the Millennium Line Broadway SkyTrain Extension and the first stage of the South of Fraser rapid transit in Surrey, more bus and HandyDART service, upgrades to the existing SkyTrain system, improvements to road, pedestrian and cycling networks, and planning for a proposed gondola on Burnaby Mountain.

The two major rail projects, with a combined cost of almost $4.5 billion, are expected to account for almost half of the total Phase 2 investment.

The federal government has committed to paying up to 40 per cent of the capital costs for major projects, and the province has agreed to pay for 40 per cent of all projects.

Regional funding sources identified in March include a two-per-cent transit fare hike, three-per-cent parking tax increase, a property tax increase of $5.50 for the average household and a development cost charge on new development.


Those funding sources were identified in March to help cover $40 million of a $70-million regional funding gap. At the time, Robinson was vague about how the remaining $30 million would be funded, saying only the province was “committed to reducing TransLink’s fiscal pressures by $30 million.”

“Providing us with this certainty now will allow us to begin deliver the plan immediately,” he said.

Corrigan said the gas tax increase will have an average annual household impact of $22. He added that by 2027, the share of TransLink’s annual operating funding paid by drivers through fuel and parking taxes will be lower than today, because the fuel tax is a declining revenue source.

[underscore]

If they're already short on funds why are they wasting money planning (not even building) a gondola?

[nsx042003]

it doesn't matter, we will all just bend over anyway, because there is nothing we can do

[whitev70r]

This is just the great news that I've been waiting for. I've been wanting to pay more taxes on gas, always thought that the price in lower mainland was kind of low compared to rest of Canada.

[TouringTeg]

It is only a matter of time before road tax is here. Gas tax revenue will steadily go down as more people adopt pure electric vehicles.

Washington state has already started a pilot program:
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/washington-state-to-test-pay-by-the-mile-as-a-way-to-fund-highways/

[Koflach]

Well, when the NDP got rid of the bridge tolls they had to make up for the funds somehow.

[twitchyzero]

pfft only 1.5c?
why not 15c or 150c hike
BC gov't don't be so spineless

but seriously this is much easier for families to swallow than tolls? i'm assuming the average vehicle does 20mpg 800km/mo? anyone have the local stats for that? either way is it safe to say 99% of the motorists won't even blink an eye even if they didn't publicly reveal it?

[yray]

why not tax electric vehicles too? :troll:

mg1 gonna kill me

[asma123]

Tbh I have no idea where the funding for translink goes. It’s ridiculously expensive to the point that I’d rather drive and pay for insurance and gas rather than taking transit to save no more than $50 and it’s more convenient.

[whitev70r]

Tbh I have no idea where the funding for translink goes. It’s ridiculously expensive to the point that I’d rather drive and pay for insurance and gas rather than taking transit to save no more than $50 and it’s more convenient.

Yah but here's the great thing about it. If you drive = use more gas ... you are subsidizing Translink with this additional tax.

Can someone remind me the logic of this? Why are drivers being taxed for Translink? To do what ... build more infrastructure like Evergreen line, Broadway line, which drivers don't use. Exactly how does this new tax on fuel help drivers? Does Translink fix potholes on the road or something?

[Jmac]

pfft only 1.5c?
why not 15c or 150c hike
BC gov't don't be so spineless

but seriously this is much easier for families to swallow than tolls? i'm assuming the average vehicle does 20mpg 800km/mo? anyone have the local stats for that? either way is it safe to say 99% of the motorists won't even blink an eye even if they didn't publicly reveal it?
Average vehicle gets way more than 20 mpg.

Let's say we're looking at 10-year-old cars:
Top 40 Best-Selling Vehicles In Canada ? 2008 Year End | GCBC (http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2014/03/canada-40-best-selling-vehicles-2008-sales-figures/)

And the average driving distance is 15153 km:
Canadian Vehicle Survey 2008 Update Report (http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/publications/statistics/cvs08/chapter2.cfm?attr=0)

Using a 55% City/45% highway split, as per Transport Canada's and NHTSA's ratings with the base engine and automatic transmission and fuel economy information from fueleconomy.gov

Civic: 8.1 L/100 km
F150: 14.7 L/100 km
Corolla: 8.1 L/100 km
Mazda 3: 9.0 L/100 km
Ram 1500: 14.7 L/100 km
Yaris: 7.6 L/100 km
Caravan: 12.4 L/100 km
Silverado: 13.8 L/100 km
Sierra: 13.8 L/100 km
Cobalt: 9.0 L/100 km
Escape: 10.7 L/100 km
Accent: 8.4 L/100 km
G5: 9.0 L/100 km
Camry: 9.4 L/100 km
Ranger: 11.2 L/100 km
Focus: 8.4 L/100 km
Matrix: 8.7 L/100 km
Accord: 9.8 L/100 km
Versa: 8.7 L/100 km
RAV4: 9.8 L/100 km
CR-V: 10.2 L/100 km
Caliber: 9.8 L/100 km
Malibu: 9.4 L/100 km
Vibe: 8.7 L/100 km
Rabbit: 9.8 L/100 km
Altima: 9.0 L/100 km
Uplander: 12.4 L/100 km
Montana: 12.4 L/100 km
Impala: 10.7 L/100 km
Fit: 7.8 L/100 km
Santa Fe: 11.8 L/100 km
Jetta: 9.8 L/100 km
Patriot: 9.8 L/100 km
G6: 9.4 L/100 km
Fusion: 10.2 L/100 km
Rogue: 9.8 L/100 km
Wrangler: 13.8 L/100 km
Equinox: 12.4 L/100 km
Mazda 5: 10.2 L/100 km
Edge: 12.4 L/100 km

The Top 40 2008 model year vehicles had a combined 2008 sales of 1,024,031, a combined total driving distance of 15,517,141,743 km/year, and a combined fuel consumption of 1,615,963,137 L/year, which works out to an average of 10.4 L/100 km (22.6 MPG) and an average of 1578 L/year in fuel consumption.

1.5 cents/L on 1578 L = $23.67/year

Now, that's 2008 (first year of CAFE standards) and without ANY hybrid or EV models on the list and I'd hazard a guess that most vehicles on the road are probably somewhere between 5-10 years old in the Lower Mainland/Vancouver Island.

[whitev70r]

^ That's some fancy calculation! Good job Jmac, are you an accountant or an actuarial by any chance?

Here is an article of tax breakdown per litre of gas in Metro Vancouver (before today's news). In short, for a 50L fill up, you are paying close to $22 of taxes - carbon tax, BC Transportation Financing Authority, BC Motor Fuel tax, Translink, Federal Fuel Tax, and finally GST on top of every previous tax!
Mike Smyth: Breaking down where your gas money goes | The Province (http://theprovince.com/news/bc-politics/mike-smyth-breaking-down-where-your-gas-money-goes)

[twitchyzero]

was waiting for you to do all the work, thanks for the breakdown

[Traum]

Well, when the NDP got rid of the bridge tolls they had to make up for the funds somehow.
I didn't vote for NDP because they promised to remove bridge tolls. I voted for them because I saw them as the best chance to get rid of Christy Clark and the Liberals. But then I know people who openly cheered for and cited the bridge toll removal as one of their reasons to vote NDP. FailFish

I really wonder what these people are saying now... FailFish

[Traum]

why not tax electric vehicles too? :troll:

mg1 gonna kill me
When the time comes -- ie. when gas tax revenues drop to a point where the provincial gov / TransLink deems it insufficent to fuel their $$$ burning habits, do you think they won't come up with some sort of ways to tax EVs as well?
:badpokerface:

It's just gonna be a matter of time before these fxxkers try to pull this on us.

[Jmac]

^ That's some fancy calculation! Good job Jmac, are you an accountant or an actuarial by any chance?
Power Engineer

[twitchyzero]

I didn't vote for NDP because they promised to remove bridge tolls. I voted for them because I saw them as the best chance to get rid of Christy Clark and the Liberals. But then I know people who openly cheered for and cited the bridge toll removal as one of their reasons to vote NDP. FailFish

I really wonder what these people are saying now... FailFish

if you cross more than 5-10x a year this new revenue is still way cheaper for the average motorist

i dont live or work east of the fraser so it doesn't directly affect me but I think the current govt is still doing a helluva better job in the short time in office than the Libs since forever yet people are still labeling them as the same hooligans from fucking 15 years ago...so let's see how they do in the long term before this turns into another trump-like thread

[Traum]

i dont live or work east of the fraser so it doesn't directly affect me but I think the current govt is still doing a helluva better job in the short time in office than the Libs since forever...so let's see how they do in the long term
Agreed. They're tackling a number of long standing problems that for one reason or another, have long existed under the Liberals era, but the Libs never put any meaningful action towards them.

[Koflach]

I didn't vote for NDP because they promised to remove bridge tolls. I voted for them because I saw them as the best chance to get rid of Christy Clark and the Liberals. But then I know people who openly cheered for and cited the bridge toll removal as one of their reasons to vote NDP. FailFish

I really wonder what these people are saying now... FailFish

At least you had a good reason for voting NDP. Voting simply to remove a toll is letting the politicians buy your vote.

[Mr.C]

Gonna cost me an extra $50 per year or so, filling up 5000L of premium per year.

Eh, I already get gouged at the pump, an extra $50 won't even matter.

[GLOW]

Power Engineer


every time i hear or meet a power engineer this goes through my head

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHZF1Dy13to



i'll show myself out now...

[Lomac]

Gonna cost me an extra $50 per year or so, filling up 5000L of premium per year.

Eh, I already get gouged at the pump, an extra $50 won't even matter.

Gas prices fluctuate so much over the span of a day that I doubt anyone would have even noticed it anyway.

[Manic!]

1.5 cents this year. What about next year?

[Lomac]

1.5 cents this year. What about next year?

Well, the gas station I usually go to to fill up every few days jumped from $1.37 two days ago to $1.52 last night. I'll guarantee in a day it will drop back down to around $1.40 or even less again. And then in a few days it will jump back up again.


$1.37 -> $1.52 increase = $0.15/L = $6 extra for a 40L fill up
vs
$0.015/L = $0.60 for a 40L fill up

Assuming I fill up once a week, it will take me two and a half months before it matches that single fill up right before a long weekend.

And also assuming I stay at a steady once a week refill, it's still much cheaper than crossing a toll bridge more than once a month.

And if next year it increases another $0.015/L, then that's what's it is. We all want better roads, better bridges, better traffic control for HOV/bike lane separation/etc, so we all benefit from this.

Don't want to pay it? Go down to the States or over to Abbotsford. Just don't complain about potholes being fixed or Translink buses getting stuck in the snow or anything else road related in the GVRD.

[yray]

And also assuming I stay at a steady once a week refill, it's still much cheaper than crossing a toll bridge more than once a month.

And if next year it increases another $0.015/L, then that's what's it is. We all want better roads, better bridges, better traffic control for HOV/bike lane separation/etc, so we all benefit from this.

Don't want to pay it? Go down to the States or over to Abbotsford. Just don't complain about potholes being fixed or Translink buses getting stuck in the snow or anything else road related in the GVRD.

buses won't magically get winter tires if we pay the tax, asphalt ain't gonna stop cracking if we pay the tax

they are planning to toll all the bridges too

question is why aren't we using the carbon tax or better allocate the existing 55cent of tax

also, bchydro has a transit levy

[whitev70r]

We are not the only big metro type of city. I don't see Toronto gas prices this high, they have a sh*tload of more transit to grow and potholes to fix. It's frigging Trans link mismanagement. Those who think 1.5 cents is nothing, don't forget we already pay 17 cents per liter toward Translink already. Translink and politicians are hoping you would say exactly that ... oh what's another $50 a year ... bend over .... and not raise a stink.

[nsx042003]

^ what can we do? I'd really love to see what can be done.

it's not like we want to bend over, it's the fact that there's NOTHING to be done

[StanleyR]

It's not that there's NOTHING that can be done. You can reduce this cost by simply driving less.

I prefer a higher gas rate as it's a variable cost (drive less), whereas an increase in insurance from ICBC is a fixed cost (regardless on how little or much you drive, you pay the same rate).

[whitev70r]

Raise sh*t about the Translink board members.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3754401/translinks-board-of-directors-cost-taxpayers-more-than-half-a-million-dollars-last-year/

Compensation paid to TransLink’s board of directors cost taxpayers well over half a million dollars last year.

For 2016, combined payments to the board that administers the region’s transit and transportation cost a total $649,000.

That was up about 13 per cent from a total of $574,916 in 2015, according to a Financial Information Act Filing and Remuneration Report.

The board is made up of 10 directors and one chair, Don Rose, who was paid $100,000 for attending 60 meetings. That works out to just about $1,700 per meeting.

[westopher]

I find it odd that so many people have issues with the taxes we pay on gas, where the money goes to pay for amenities and infrastructure we can use, as opposed to taking issue with the profits that massive oil companies pull in, which provide no benefit to us as a population.
I agree there is some poor money management in the public sector, however some asshole translink board making an extra 100k, is far less offensive to me than an oil company board making 10s of millions a year while turning hundreds of million in profits?
How about banks charging you money to hold your money while charging someone else to loan your money to them, then paying you back a small portion of that profit?
So many people don't bother to see the big enemy here.

[yray]

I find it odd that so many people have issues with the taxes we pay on gas, where the money goes to pay for amenities and infrastructure we can use, as opposed to taking issue with the profits that massive oil companies pull in, which provide no benefit to us as a population.
I agree there is some poor money management in the public sector, however some asshole translink board making an extra 100k, is far less offensive to me than an oil company board making 10s of millions a year while turning hundreds of million in profits?
How about banks charging you money to hold your money while charging someone else to loan your money to them, then paying you back a small portion of that profit?
So many people don't bother to see the big enemy here.

I don't think people have problems with more tax but why target only drivers when benefits do not necessarily go back to roads. Tax should be levied on the mass pop. using ways like bc hydro accounts as anyone that uses electricity will pay for the region accordingly. I know the principle is that higher tax would force people off the roads but if there's no transit to port kells, tibury or annacis is that tax even valid.

[twitchyzero]

you can get free banking though some other poor sap will be offsetting it
mortage is part of life because most don't have a mill sitting there looking pretty
there are no EVs built for enthusiast under 6-figs

i'd like to boycott the corporations bank rolling terrorist cells but it ain't realistic yet

again, i'm not gonna lose sleep over an extra $30 per year...it has nothing to do with getting 'bent over'

[whitev70r]

This is the big picture ... (and that price listed under BC is either not recent or gas outside Metro brought the avg price down). After paying the oil companies their millions of profits, which people from BC to PEI has to do, this is the difference.

I'm fine with paying say $1.35 and I get that some has to go to repair roads, infrastructure etc. BUT every other major city has roads, transit, infrastructure, and 'amenities'. If Ontario can do it for $1.310 what factor makes gas in BC $1.458? Why is it so much more than the average big Canadian city?

If 1.5 cents translates to $50/yr extra per car ... 15 cent difference (from BC to Ont) translates to $500/yr extra per car or $1000/yr if you have 2 cars ... feel like you're bending over yet?

https://www.gasbuddy.com/CAN

[westopher]

Have you driven on a road in Edmonton? Taken a bus? Both are a fucking catastrophe. Toronto is as high as we are. Spend some time in some of Canada's "big cities" in each province and I bet you will see a correlation between these taxes and quality of transportation via public, or personal use.

[whitev70r]

^ you work for Translink?

Here are gas prices in Toronto in the last 24 hrs, fyi - https://www.gasbuddy.com/GasPrices/Ontario/Toronto

$124.9 to $129.9 ... not quite as high a we are, you agree?

[westopher]

They were up around 1.51 a few weeks ago. I don't follow my savings of $15 a month if I lived 4000KMs away that closely to know the real time data. It was $1.35 in Edmonton last week, however, and its built on an ocean of gasoline.

[twitchyzero]

I don't agree with significant taxation on essential consumables either, it's why I give business to the Americans instead

complaining about an extra 1.5c/L though? Vancouverites gonna Vancouverite

It was $1.35 in Edmonton last week, however, and its built on an ocean of gasoline.

you mean like how Made-in-China iPhones are more expensive in China?

[nsx042003]

I don't have a problem with increases, as long as it's appropriate. Taxing people who don't use transit FOR transit spending is...well...fucked up if you ask me.

[westopher]

Why do I pay for taxes for schools when I have no children? Why do I pay for subsidized housing when I can afford my mortgage?
Now thats fucked up logic.

[nsx042003]

no i get what you are saying westopher, but do you see new tax being introduced every year or so for school? or subsidized housing?

it's reached a point where they keep sliding it in without betting an eye, that's the issue, not the increases

[minoru_tanaka]

I don't have a problem with increases, as long as it's appropriate. Taxing people who don't use transit FOR transit spending is...well...fucked up if you ask me.

no i get what you are saying westopher, but do you see new tax being introduced every year or so for school? or subsidized housing?

it's reached a point where they keep sliding it in without betting an eye, that's the issue, not the increases

You think you can just slide into different argument and no one will notice?

[Traum]

no i get what you are saying westopher, but do you see new tax being introduced every year or so for school? or subsidized housing?

it's reached a point where they keep sliding it in without betting an eye, that's the issue, not the increases
What? We haven't reached this point yet? With hikes to fees and taxes and such, I thought we have long past that point years and years ago.
FailFish

[teggy604]

Didn't TransLink gave themselves bonus for doing a great job few yrs ago? Who approves these bonuses because it is certainly not the tax payers.

[nsx042003]

You think you can just slide into different argument and no one will notice?

I have no idea what you are getting at? I'm saying 2 different things?

What? We haven't reached this point yet? With hikes to fees and taxes and such, I thought we have long past that point years and years ago.
FailFish

Either way, my point is they have got to stop, but unfortunately there's nothing to be done

[Manic!]

The problem is not the 1.5 cents its that its a tax on something that's already heavily taxed. It's like the straw that broke the camels back.

[meme405]

Who approves these bonuses because it is certainly not the tax payers.

The board approves it's own salaries, and bonuses. I'm not kidding...

It's like that for many public chair people. Notably:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/metro-vancouver-chair-defends-voting-in-favour-of-65k-retirement-bonus-1.4598747



Really I feel like these people should be tipped like strippers and whores. I'd be the first person in line to throw loonies as hard as I can at some of these politicians.

[underscore]

I find it odd that so many people have issues with the taxes we pay on gas, where the money goes to pay for amenities and infrastructure we can use, as opposed to taking issue with the profits that massive oil companies pull in, which provide no benefit to us as a population.
I agree there is some poor money management in the public sector, however some asshole translink board making an extra 100k, is far less offensive to me than an oil company board making 10s of millions a year while turning hundreds of million in profits?
How about banks charging you money to hold your money while charging someone else to loan your money to them, then paying you back a small portion of that profit?
So many people don't bother to see the big enemy here.

How exactly are those related? An oil company is just a company, last time I checked the only way any of those stay open is by making a profit.

[whitev70r]

^ really good point!

[westopher]

How exactly are those related? An oil company is just a company, last time I checked the only way any of those stay open is by making a profit.
I'm making a point that people have an issue paying taxes on a product, when they should be mad about getting gouged on a product, from a group of companies known for price fixing, destroying the environment, manipulating government, etc.
Its an observation that people should be mad at something different. Theres a reason gas is expensive, and the main reason isn't the taxes.

[underscore]

I'm making a point that people have an issue paying taxes on a product, when they should be mad about getting gouged on a product, from a group of companies known for price fixing, destroying the environment, manipulating government, etc.
Its an observation that people should be mad at something different. Theres a reason gas is expensive, and the main reason isn't the taxes.

In the GVRD you guys are paying $0.3328/L in taxes, so the fuel is about $1.25/L. That has to cover the dragging it out of the ground, transporting it, refining it, and transporting it again. Not to mention the costs of building and operating the extraction, refining and sales facilities, and it still manages to be the cheapest liquid sold at a gas station.

As far as things we get gouged on that we should be mad about instead, I'd offer up the taxes on used vehicle purchases as a prime target. Everyone panics about a 1.5% tax increase expected to cost them $22/yr, but nobody seems to care about paying thousands extra on a used vehicle that has already had taxes paid on in multiple times.

[meme405]

I'm making a point that people have an issue paying taxes on a product, when they should be mad about getting gouged on a product, from a group of companies known for price fixing, destroying the environment, manipulating government, etc.
Its an observation that people should be mad at something different. Theres a reason gas is expensive, and the main reason isn't the taxes.

Maybe you should just be mad at yourself for destroying the environment and your wallet everytime you drive your car?

The oil and gas industry just fills a need, if you don't like it, then go live off the grid like a hippy.

I'm allowed to be critical of my government and the way they spend my money, the only way I can be critical of private business is by taking my money elsewhere.

On the subject of "manipulative government", maybe you should question why your government is able to be manipulated by private business, is it perhaps because they are greedy, dirty politicians, such as Crusty Cunt, who now works for one of her biggest campaign donors?

[westopher]

I have taken my money elsewhere. I walk or bike to work, the grocery store, etc. Thats why I drive less than 5k a year. You can tell me to practice what I preach all I want, because I do.
Talking about Kunty, has nothing to do with my support for the NDP/green taxation plans that often are based on environmental initiatives, as they have nothing in common. There is also a reason I didn't vote for the BC Liberals. Last I checked Krusty and her "manipulative government" weren't "my government" anyways.

[meme405]

the grocery store

And how did what your buying at the grocery store get there?

Not driving your car amounts to literally a penny out of the pocket of Big Oil. It's obviously the first thing everyone points to, but realistically, the food you eat, the products you buy, the trips you go on, your medication, health care, and all the people you rely on to serve you your daily latte at whatever organic brewerista bullshit coffee joint all use more oil and petrochemical products than you could imagine.

So unless you're out here whittling your cuttlery out of wood, and carving wooden bowls to eat on, you're still not making a dent in cutting your use, all you are doing is lulling yourself into thinking your better than the rest of us.

For the record buddy, this is a hard stance I'm taking, only for the sake of taking it. I get where you are coming from, but the fact is our oil usage is going nowhere, even electric cars won't slow down our dependency oil and gas.

My main point originally before we subdivided into a totally different conversation is that private business is private, and I can't see us going to go the route of venezuela and have a government run oil company (I mean really a pipeline is terrifying enough).

However to say that I shouldn't be concerned with the taxes I pay, solely because they are for the good of everyone is ridiculous, our government couldn't organize an orgy in a whorehouse, so why should I just blindly trust them with half of the money I make.

[meme405]

For anyone that doesn't understand:

Take every single car, truck, tractor, etc. in the world and replace it with an electric equivalent as of tomorrow morning. You have still only reduced our global oil demand by 33%.

You people don't understand what you are using even while you are using it.

Protest a pipeline all you want, hang underneath a bridge blocking traffic for weeks, or months or years, it doesn't matter, because the fight you are fighting is fundamentally flawed. And yet hundreds of people continue to fight it (Many of them undoubtedly paid for by people who benefit from our mishandling of our business here in Canada), and millions of other clueless people rally behind them.

[westopher]

And how did what your buying at the grocery store get there?

Not driving your car amounts to literally a penny out of the pocket of Big Oil. It's obviously the first thing everyone points to, but realistically, the food you eat, the products you buy, the trips you go on, your medication, health care, and all the people you rely on to serve you your daily latte at whatever organic brewerista bullshit coffee joint all use more oil and petrochemical products than you could imagine.

So unless you're out here whittling your cuttlery out of wood, and carving wooden bowls to eat on, you're still not making a dent in cutting your use, all you are doing is lulling yourself into thinking your better than the rest of us.

For the record buddy, this is a hard stance I'm taking, only for the sake of taking it. I get where you are coming from, but the fact is our oil usage is going nowhere, even electric cars won't slow down our dependency oil and gas.

My main point originally before we subdivided into a totally different conversation is that private business is private, and I can't see us going to go the route of venezuela and have a government run oil company (I mean really a pipeline is terrifying enough).

However to say that I shouldn't be concerned with the taxes I pay, solely because they are for the good of everyone is ridiculous, our government couldn't organize an orgy in a whorehouse, so why should I just blindly trust them with half of the money I make.
I know what you are trying to to here, but get fucking real man. Just because I've been born into a society thats dependant on oil, doesn't mean I have to suck oil company dick and like it. I buy local veggies and meat. I drive less. Guess what, it does make a difference. If everyone else did the same it would make a bigger difference.
I'm not in the mindset of "doing a little bit is the same as doing nothing" because oil or otherwise, that mindset is for the lazy. You say vote with your wallet, then come back with, "well that doesn't do anything anyway," then whats the point of having this conversation.