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09-19-2018, 12:47 AM
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#1 | | Zombie Mod
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| Ticketmaster colluding with scalpers
Not surprising, but a CBC investigation has discovered that Ticketmaster is working with scalpers to rip us off even more. Quote: CBC goes undercover at industry convention in Las Vegas to expose ticket giant’s new scheme
Box-office giant Ticketmaster is recruiting professional scalpers who cheat its own system to expand its resale business and squeeze more money out of fans, a CBC News/Toronto Star investigation reveals.
In July, the news outlets sent a pair of reporters undercover to Ticket Summit 2018, a ticketing and live entertainment convention at Caesars Palace in Las Vegas.
Posing as scalpers and equipped with hidden cameras, the journalists were pitched on Ticketmaster's professional reseller program.
Company representatives told them Ticketmaster's resale division turns a blind eye to scalpers who use ticket-buying bots and fake identities to snatch up tickets and then resell them on the site for inflated prices. Those pricey resale tickets include extra fees for Ticketmaster.
"I have brokers that have literally a couple of hundred accounts," one sales representative said. "It's not something that we look at or report."
CBC shared its findings with Alan Cross, a veteran music journalist and host of the radio program The Ongoing History of New Music, who suspects the ticket-buying public will be far from impressed: "This is going to be a public relations nightmare."
He said there have been "whispers of this in the ticket-selling community, but it's never been outlined quite like this before."
"It does seem a bit stinky, doesn't it?"
By partnering with scalpers, Ticketmaster has done an about-face from its position of less than a decade ago when then-CEO Irving Azoff told U.S. legislators: "I believe that scalping and resales should be illegal."
Two floors above the slot machines and blackjack tables at Caesars, Ticketmaster was one of dozens of vendors and speakers at the convention, which bills itself as a "one-of-a-kind networking event" for industry leaders and small businesses alike.
CBC reporter Dave Seglins signed up as "David Geoffrey," a small-time scalper from Toronto with a fictitious company, DGS Promotions.
With hidden cameras rolling, he mingled with some of the world's most successful scalpers, documenting candid accounts from players inside this notoriously secretive industry.
Casey Klein, Ticketmaster Resale director, held a session that was closed to the media called "We appreciate your partnership: More brokers are listing with Ticketmaster than ever before."
The audience heard that Ticketmaster has developed a professional reseller program and within the past year launched TradeDesk, a web-based inventory management system for scalpers. The company touts it as "The most powerful ticket sales tool. Ever."
TradeDesk allows scalpers to upload large quantities of tickets purchased from Ticketmaster's site and quickly list them again for resale. With the click of a button, scalpers can hike or drop prices on reams of tickets on Ticketmaster's site based on their assessment of fan demand.
Neither TradeDesk nor the professional reseller program are mentioned anywhere on Ticketmaster's website or in its corporate reports. To access the company's TradeDesk website, a person must first send in a registration request.
On the trade show floor, a handful of Ticketmaster salespeople handed out cupcakes, and at two cubicle workstations, they provided online demonstrations of TradeDesk.
One of the presenters, who was unaware he was speaking with undercover journalists, insisted that Ticketmaster's resale division isn't interested in whether clients use automated software and fake identities to bypass the box office's ticket-buying limits.
"If you want to get a good show and the ticket limit is six or eight ... you're not going to make a living on six or eight tickets," he said.
While Ticketmaster has a "buyer abuse" division that looks out for blatantly suspicious online activity, the presenter said the resale division doesn't police TradeDesk users.
"We don't share reports, we don't share names, we don't share account information with the primary site. Period," he said when asked whether he cares if scalpers use bots to buy their tickets.
CBC heard the same message from a different Ticketmaster employee during an online video conference demonstration of TradeDesk at an earlier stage of the undercover investigation back in March.
"We've spent millions of dollars on this tool. The last thing we'd want to do is get brokers caught up to where they can't sell inventory with us," he said when asked whether Ticketmaster will ban scalpers who thwart ticket-buying limits — a direct violation of the company's terms of use.
"We're not trying to build a better mousetrap."
Ticketmaster, which is owned by Live Nation, the world's largest concert promoter, has made it clear to shareholders that it plans to expand further into the resale market.
As Part 1 of the CBC News/Toronto Star investigation revealed yesterday, resale tickets are particularly lucrative for Ticketmaster because the company charges fees twice on the same ticket.
So, for example, if Ticketmaster collects $25.75 on a $209.50 ticket on the initial sale, when the owner posts it for resale for $400 on the site, the company stands to collect an additional $76 on the same ticket.
CBC News obtained a copy of Ticketmaster's official reseller handbook, which outlines these fees. It also details Ticketmaster's reward system for scalpers. As scalpers hit milestones such as $500,000 or $1 million in annual sales, Ticketmaster will knock a percentage point off its fees.
The Ticketmaster employee who gave the video conference demonstration in March said 100 scalpers in North America, including a handful in Canada, are using TradeDesk to move between a few thousand and several million tickets per year.
"I think our biggest broker right now has probably grabbed around five million," he said.
Cross, who has spent the past two years researching online ticket sales, suspects some fans will read about this and conclude Ticketmaster is colluding with scalpers.
"On one hand, they say, 'We don't like bots,' but on the other hand, 'We have all these clients who may use bots.'"
Ticketmaster has declined repeated requests for an interview.
CBC and the Toronto Star submitted a list of specific questions about the company's scalper program.
In a statement to CBC News, the company made no mention of the program, nor did it comment on its recruitment effort in Las Vegas.
Ticketmaster did say that as long as there is an imbalance between supply and demand for live events, "there will inevitably be a secondary market."
"As the world's leading ticketing platform, representing thousands of teams, artists and venues, we believe it is our job to offer a marketplace that provides a safe and fair place for fans to shop, buy and sell tickets in both the primary and secondary markets," wrote Catherine Martin, senior vice-president of communications, based in Los Angeles.
But Richard Powers, associate professor at the University of Toronto's Rotman School of Management, says what Ticketmaster is doing is unethical.
With its near monopoly on box-office tickets, Ticketmaster should not also be allowed to profit from the scalping of those same tickets, he says.
"Helping to create a secondary market where purchasers are duped into paying higher prices and securing themselves a second commission should be illegal."
For Alan Cross, the program raises a series of ethical questions:
Is this a legitimate form of commerce?
Does it violate any consumer protection laws?
Is it transparent and fair to consumers?
"It is probably going to trigger some questions," he said, "and if not from governments, certainly from the general public."
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09-19-2018, 06:31 AM
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#2 | | reads most threads with his pants around his ankles, especially in the Forced Induction forum.
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LOL our gov won't do a thing and everything will be back to the way it was. If ticketmaster reallyw ant to kill the scalper market is very simple. You need to provide your gov ID for each tickets and when you resell the seller and the buyer have to go to a ticketmaster office and present their ID. Or only allow say 20% of the total number of tickets to allow name changes. If you don't have an ID then you have to buy in person.
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09-19-2018, 06:39 AM
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#3 | | Ready to be Man handled by RS!
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I guess the government and police don't have the time, need or resources to investigate these sorts of things. At least the media can step in and create their own news stories. Quote: |
Hello WD-40 it appears that you have not posted on our forums in several weeks, why not take a few moments to ask a question, help provide a solution or just engage in a conversation with another member in any one of our forums?
| There. I did my part.
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09-19-2018, 06:49 AM
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#4 | | reads most threads with his pants around his ankles, especially in the Forced Induction forum.
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by WD-40  I guess the government and police don't have the time, need or resources to investigate these sorts of things. At least the media can step in and create their own news stories.
There. I did my part. | The gov can easily set policy on resale tickets or slap a fine of ticketmaster. I remember watching CBC marketplace a few years ago and the gov said they are working on it..... well few years have past and nothing have change. And is going to stay that way. That's why I don't even bother going to concerts or shows anymore. Simply you won't be able to grab tickets at the orginal price. and I am not paying 3 to 4x the price.
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09-19-2018, 06:51 AM
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#5 | | My dinner reheated before my turbo spooled
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Even stock prices for these concerts and events are getting ridiculous...when they get flipped and scalped..fock that I'll save my money towards a vacation.
I get better viewing angles from my tv and better sound quality from my spotify anyways.
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09-19-2018, 08:54 AM
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#6 | | Willing to sell body for a few minutes on RS
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In before Ticketmaster blames it on a rogue employee.
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09-19-2018, 08:59 AM
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#7 | | RS.net, helping ugly ppl have sex since 2001
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Originally Posted by Ludepower Even stock prices for these concerts and events are getting ridiculous...when they get flipped and scalped..fock that I'll save my money towards a vacation.
I get better viewing angles from my tv and better sound quality from my spotify anyways. | Yepp. Same reason I don’t go to concerts or hockey games or shit anymore. Overspend in nosebleed tickets to buy $8.50 beers (considered cheap!) and horrible concession food to paying $25 for parking IF YOU CAN FIND IT.
Last time I went to see Chris rock at UBC we got stuck trying to leave the parkade for over 2 hours. The wife and I left the car on the roof, went for a walk all around ubc. Got back and the roof level was still stuck
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09-19-2018, 09:19 AM
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#8 | | RS has made me the bitter person i am today!
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Let companies operate on their own they said, let the free market protect the customer they said. What a bizarre modern world we live in.
Ticketmaster sucks, but especially in Vancouver, we have one of the worst scalping markets in the world here.
Drake is coming to Vancouver in October, we're seeing him in Tacoma because the tickets are literally half the price, for better seats. Pretty much never go to concerts in Vancouver any more, which is sad.
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09-19-2018, 09:35 AM
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#9 | | OMGWTFBBQ is a common word I say everyday
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Originally Posted by mikemhg Let companies operate on their own they said, let the free market protect the customer they said. What a bizarre modern world we live in.
Ticketmaster sucks, but especially in Vancouver, we have one of the worst scalping markets in the world here.
Drake is coming to Vancouver in October, we're seeing him in Tacoma because the tickets are literally half the price, for better seats. Pretty much never go to concerts in Vancouver any more, which is sad. | Exactly the last couple concerts I've been to were in Seattle. Cant beat the prices they're getting.
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09-19-2018, 10:39 AM
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#10 | | "They call me Bowser...RawR!"
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I remember my gf wanted to see the Spice Girls reunion back in 2008. Because Vancouver was the first stop on their tour, tickets were approaching $2000... fuck that. We looked at their tour schedule and decided to watch them in Boston instead. Got tickets for retail and the whole trip was less than a pair of tickets in Vancouver. Same with Canucks tickets, sometimes I watch them down in San Jose.
Locally, I like going to old timer concerts. Never had issues with scalpers for Hall and Oates or Slash.
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09-19-2018, 12:21 PM
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#11 | | I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
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yeah but what happens if a concert is on a week night/Sunday night?
you're still gonna take a day off work (losing income), drive 5 hours to save may be a few hundred? (gas, accommodation, food etc.) Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludepower I get better viewing angles from my tv |
how are you watching concerts on TV?
Last edited by twitchyzero; 09-19-2018 at 12:28 PM.
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09-19-2018, 12:49 PM
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#12 | | To me, there is the Internet and there is RS
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Ticketmaster is as greedy as they get, maybe this will finally be what brings them down but somehow I doubt it since they seem to be tied into a lot.
Looking at an event here the ticket is $35, "fee" is $11, "delivery" is $3, and "order charge" is $3. $17 in fees on a $35 ticket, that's absolute robbery.
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09-19-2018, 12:50 PM
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#13 | | OMGWTFBBQ is a common word I say everyday
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by twitchyzero yeah but what happens if a concert is on a week night/Sunday night?
you're still gonna take a day off work (losing income), drive 5 hours to save may be a few hundred? (gas, accommodation, food etc.)
how are you watching concerts on TV? | You can't win them all, but in term of transportation it takes 2 hours each way (less on the way back as there's no traffic) and you make a day trip out of it on a weekend.
If it's a weekday its a no brainer, you probably wouldn't go, or else you really want to attend the event and would typically take the day off as that's your choice. Plus its not like you take the day off and waste time for only the concert. You'd go early in the day and enjoy the city and what it has to offer.
Yes, I'd rather spend money on gas and food somewhere I rarely go, then spend that same amount of money on 1 concert at home, and then still have to pay more for gas and food.
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09-19-2018, 01:22 PM
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#14 | | RS.net, helping ugly ppl have sex since 2001
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I can't stand the extra fees on top. I don't have exact numbers in mind but they used to be much lower from what I remember and now they're like insane. I remember buying a pair of Eagles tix earlier in the year and paid something like $70 in fees or some shit like wtf.
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09-19-2018, 01:42 PM
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#15 | | I have named my kids VIC and VLS
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Yea, like has anyone ever had a GOOD experience with TM?
The world juniors thing was a fucking joke, like very little info prior to putting down a $300 deposit in order to buy tickets, upon closer examination this is forcing you to buy complete packages to the entire event. Ok maybe I’ll consider it..
The day comes when tickets are released and I had my work laptop (tried on both Wi-Fi and cellular connection) my personal phone and work phone trying THREE different browsers, and I couldn’t get to the seat selection portion once over 8 hours.
About half the tickets sold right off the bat so I contacted them saying I’m done I want my deposit back because your system was so fucked I couldn’t even order tickets if I wanted to. After a huge back and forth of me simply responding no, I will not be buying tickets, I eventually got the deposit back but Jesus Christ.
My wife and I also tried to buy tickets to Adele and again we are both trying, she gets 2 decent tickets randomly to check out, the browser times out and when we refreshed nothing but nose bleed single.. ��
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09-19-2018, 02:29 PM
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#16 | | To me, there is the Internet and there is RS
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Before the average Joe gets a chance at a ticket a number of people have already gotten there hands in the pile. First the artist gets a bunch of tickets, then you have the promoters, the radio stations, anyone with Canucks seasons tickets has the ability to buy there seats for the event, You also have the fan club and then the pre sale. After all that the average joe gets a crack at what ever is left along with the bots.
I looked at getting a bot before and it was $1000 US for the bot. Plus you have to pay for a proxy server and capta fills.
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09-19-2018, 02:54 PM
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#17 | | 2013, 2016, 2017 & 2018 NHL Fantasy RS1 Champion
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A TM bot will practically pay for itself.
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09-19-2018, 04:36 PM
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#18 | | My dinner reheated before my turbo spooled
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by twitchyzero how are you watching concerts on TV? | Hey man if you wanna pay $300 for a single concert ticket then more power to ya. Some of us arent as star struck as you and would rather spend it on other forms of entertainment.
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09-19-2018, 04:39 PM
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#19 | | Willing to sell a family member for a few minutes on RS
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Hate TM, their fees are so jacked up. Try not to buy from them whenever I can but so little options
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09-19-2018, 04:52 PM
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#20 | | Performance Moderator
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Originally Posted by Ludepower Hey man if you wanna pay $300 for a single concert ticket then more power to ya. Some of us arent as star struck as you and would rather spend it on other forms of entertainment. | No offence man but you’re blaming people for wanting to see a show but complaining at an unjustly jacked up price? Try attacking the cause of the problem instead.
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09-19-2018, 06:21 PM
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#21 | | I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
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Originally Posted by Ludepower Hey man if you wanna pay $300 for a single concert ticket then more power to ya. Some of us arent as star struck as you and would rather spend it on other forms of entertainment. | like drugs?
i used to be able to justify it as I just pirate music but wouldnt mind few hundred for a pair of tickets every 4-5 years to support the artist in-person
you still haven't told me how you're able to watch your typical, non-sports, rogers arena event on TV
even if you did, is it even the same thing? Can you for example say you watched the 2010 Olympics at home with better view/audio quality and that's more than adequate?
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09-19-2018, 06:28 PM
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#22 | | RS.net, helping ugly ppl have sex since 2001
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I absolutely hate TM and dread it whenever I have to use them. I hope they sink because of this expose. Scumbags!
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09-19-2018, 06:47 PM
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#23 | | I *heart* Revscene.net very Muchie
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09-19-2018, 06:49 PM
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#24 | | To me, there is the Internet and there is RS
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Originally Posted by Ludepower Hey man if you wanna pay $300 for a single concert ticket then more power to ya. Some of us arent as star struck as you and would rather spend it on other forms of entertainment. | I don't see choosing to directly support an artist/whatever that we enjoy as a bad thing, what is a problem is a company like TM trying to leach off of that to an excessive degree. Considering how little they actually do the fees from TM are very high compared to the cost of the actual ticket, which has to pay for a much larger amount of work.
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Originally Posted by maksimizer half those dudes are hotter than ,my GF. | Quote:
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Originally Posted by Good_KarMa OH thank god. I thought u had sex with my wife. :cry: | | |
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09-19-2018, 08:02 PM
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#25 | | Rs has made me the woman i am today!
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how much does it cost to rent bc place for a concert?..300k not including security ?
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