[quasi]

So I've been working at this place for the last 7 years, I'm the senior estimator/pm here. We hired another PM in February who I trained and honestly isn't terrible at his job when he's here.

The rub is he's always late, like I mean every single day. It's been steadily getting worse, in the past I have said something to my manager as although I trained him and assign him his work I'm not his manager*. To my knowledge the manager has never spoken to him about it and doesn't seem to care.

This irritates me because the first bunch of years I was here I would always be here when my mentor was here and I wouldn't leave before him unless I had an appointment or something. To be fair I show up early every morning usually here by 7:10-7:15 we're suppose to start at 7:30. We get an hour for lunch and we're off at 4:30. There was one day this motherfucker shows up at 11:45 and at noon took an hour lunch......who does that?

This guy shows up anywhere between 8:00-9:00, takes his full hour lunch and leaves no later than 4:30 most days. He's on salary like I am and I feel he just takes advantage of the situation. Maybe I'm old school but I really don't think there is any reason to be late for work unless there was some sort of emergency, I always show up early just to make sure I'm never late.

I've already said something to my manager and he's done nothing but it still irritates me. I don't want to keep harping on it with him, I feel like I already told you if you don't give a fuck than I shouldn't be harping on it. I pick up the majority of our work (probably 90% of it) and this guy shows up whenever he feels like it and his production doesn't back up his lack luster attendance. Am I wrong for being irritated by this situation? Maybe I'm just being a bitch but I'm honestly considering looking for new employment next year because this irritates me everyday.

[GabAlmighty]

Nah, you're justified. That's pretty bullshit that he works 75% of what you do but gets paid the same as working 100%.

Who's your managers boss? Have you tried saying something to the guy himself?

[punkwax]

If you’re doing 90% of the work and are his mentor, give him more. If he can get his duties done while showing up late it tells me he can handle more. Maybe the pressure of the workload will force him to arrive on time. I’m sure you have deadlines to meet.

[!Aznboi128]

If you’re doing 90% of the work and are his mentor, give him more. If he can get his duties done while showing up late it tells me he can handle more. Maybe the pressure of the workload will force him to arrive on time. I’m sure you have deadlines to meet.
This,

when on salary it's hard cause people can say "I've done my job"

I would also talk to the guy and tell me your feedback about the situation. take it from https://www.radicalcandor.com

[320icar]

I know people who call in sick a minimum of one day week. That’s a minimum of 52 sick days a year. He’s been kicked from full time to part time, had benefits cut. Got back to full time and still calls in. Worst part is he’s friends with a manager so they usually ‘forget to write him up’. And right now he’s getting weekends off.

It’s really stirred the pot and a few people have gone to hr about it

[quasi]

Nah, you're justified. That's pretty bullshit that he works 75% of what you do but gets paid the same as working 100%.

Who's your managers boss? Have you tried saying something to the guy himself?

I'd have to speak to the owner of the company who is in Kelowna which I do fairly regular but I really hate throwing my manager under the bus as he's generally good to me. He has a really passive management style, he gets along with everyone but I feel he gets ran over a lot.

I'm between a rock and a hard place because if I say something to the owner I'd really be fucking my manager over. Maybe I say something to him one more time and see if he does anything? I guarantee if I said I was thinking of leaving because of it he'd do something but I don't really want to play that card just yet.

[quasi]

If you’re doing 90% of the work and are his mentor, give him more. If he can get his duties done while showing up late it tells me he can handle more. Maybe the pressure of the workload will force him to arrive on time. I’m sure you have deadlines to meet.

I have done this before, thing is work load doesn't necessarily equal jobs. I mean in the long run it does because the laws of averages but I work on all the major projects we go after he looks at smaller projects which is why I account for so much more of our work load.

There isn't a lot of estimators out there in our trade, I'm getting head hunted and contacted from our competitors fairly often. I know when we tried to hire someone to help me it took us 6 months to find this guy.

[Hondaracer]

Shit shouldn’t fly. When I was still in construction I fired a few people for being late twice.

Had a guy who constantly had “car trouble” so gave him a pass the first time. Second time he phoned me and said he needed a jump and he’ll be a few late

Third time in 2 weeks he’s late, he shows up, tell him he’s gone.

Salary is a bit tougher because it seems like people feel a bit more entitled. However in any job you should be there, ready to work when the shift begins. Imo it’s stupid to expect people to constantly be there 15+ minutes early every day, but if you’re 5-10 and ready to work when the clock strikes, good enough

In your case though I’d say he should have been fired already. That sets such a poor precedent for others

[originalhypa]

There was one day this motherfucker shows up at 11:45 and at noon took an hour lunch......who does that?


Uh, I do.

:D

tl/dr/#timeforlunch

[Mr.HappySilp]

If you already mention this to management then maybe mention this to HR as well.

Nothing you can do about it. Just do your part. Happens at my work a lot where people show up 10 to 15mins late all the time, then goes get coffee, heat up their breakfast etc etc..... In the end nothing changes. Now I didn't join them but I can say I don't care as much now if I am going to be late or spent more time in the kitchen getting coffee/tea and chat with other people a bit.

[Jmac]

In that situation, that’s pretty BS.

If he was producing, working through breaks, working late, working from home, etc. I wouldn’t care if he was occasionally late.

[CivicBlues]

Take a dump on his desk.

When he comes by and asks who did this, tell him:

"I don't know, maybe if you came in on time you'd have caught him in the act"

[GabAlmighty]

I'd have to speak to the owner of the company who is in Kelowna which I do fairly regular but I really hate throwing my manager under the bus as he's generally good to me. He has a really passive management style, he gets along with everyone but I feel he gets ran over a lot.

I'm between a rock and a hard place because if I say something to the owner I'd really be fucking my manager over. Maybe I say something to him one more time and see if he does anything? I guarantee if I said I was thinking of leaving because of it he'd do something but I don't really want to play that card just yet.

Ya, I think speaking to your manager again would be best and see if he does anything. If not, all niceties aside, you're justified going over his head.

And I wouldn't say to explicitly say you're going to leave... But mentioning that you are being head hunted repeatedly and leaving it at that will definitely light a fire under their ass.

[fliptuner]

Oh, good morning, your Highness. Just in time to go for lunch again.

Holy shit dude, I bet you make like 50% more than me. You're only here like half the time.

Good thing you don't get paid by the hour, eh?

Hey boss, where's Joe? Holy shit, it's like 11 o'clock. Call me if you see him. I need xxx done. Does that guy ever show up on time?

[carisear]

here's another angle: none of your business?

if his manager doesn't think anything of it, then it's not an issue.

if it bothers you that much, get a promotion, become him boss, and fire him. Otherwise, who cares what he does?

You said he does good work already, so to me it sounds like he's doing his job fine. As others have said, assign him more work if you have that power.

Although, it seems to me like you are better off quitting and finding a union or 9-5 job. Alot of employers now are allowing flex hours or work from anywhere type deals. If people not being at their desk at all times is important to you, look for a place that is specifically that type of job.

[quasi]

here's another angle: none of your business?

if his manager doesn't think anything of it, then it's not an issue.

if it bothers you that much, get a promotion, become him boss, and fire him. Otherwise, who cares what he does?

You said he does good work already, so to me it sounds like he's doing his job fine. As others have said, assign him more work if you have that power.

Although, it seems to me like you are better off quitting and finding a union or 9-5 job. Alot of employers now are allowing flex hours or work from anywhere type deals. If people not being at their desk at all times is important to you, look for a place that is specifically that type of job.

Lol, I work 10 hours a day I'm not much of a union honk. I said his work isn't bad "when he's there" he would get more done if he was there regularly.

When you're suppose to be in a "team" environment it is annoying at least to me that others don't pull their weight especially in a position where our bonuses are branch based and not based on individual production. In other words the less good work he picks up the less my bonuses are.

[bcrdukes]

The co-worker you just described sounds like hypa :D

[twitchyzero]

my office once fired someone hourly for being late a few times (by only a few minutes)

didn't agree with it because we're often waiting on clients for 10+ minutes and when we pester the manager they'll defend the clients with excuses like 'traffic'

unless he's not pulling his weight and affecting the team's performance, i'd pick my battles esp if the mgmt has already been notified

[Nlkko]

Sounds like both the manager and the guy needs to be canned. Poor work ethics is contagious.

[SpuGen]

Oh, good morning, your Highness. Just in time to go for lunch again.

Holy shit dude, I bet you make like 50% more than me. You're only here like half the time.

Good thing you don't get paid by the hour, eh?

Hey boss, where's Rob? Holy shit, it's like 11 o'clock. Call me if you see him. I need xxx done. Does that guy ever show up on time?

fixed

[meme405]

Just start showing up late like he does... Fight fire with fire.

But you better be damn certain there isn't some other situation you are not aware of before you start doing that.

I hear it all the time from people I work with that I show up after everyone, I roll in at 7am or later when others start at 6 or 6:30, and they say stupid shit like "good afternoon". And yet what those stupid people never see is that when they leave at 5:30pm, I am at the office until 7 or 8pm every night. So like I say, just make sure you aren't misreading the scenario of how much work he is actually doing.

[Raid3n]

^that would be understandable if buddy wasn't johnny on the spot with quitting time lol.

[Gnomes]

Ask your boss what will happen if you also decide to show up late every day and if he gives you the OK for it.

The guy there is probably being headhunted as well, maybe waiting to be fired, get his severance, and onto new job.

[Euro7r]

It's hard to determine what type of management style your manager is. Like some don't give a damn if your late everyday, as long as the work is done. Then there are those managers that micro manage and nit pick every minute you are late because there is a work hour policy everyone should abide to.

Definitely not fair for you or any of your colleagues that come to work on time. Essentially he is robbing work time and get paid the same as you guys unless he has a specific reason he needs to come late everyday that is not made aware of. How I see it is, come late, stay late. Work half time get paid half the time. It's one thing when someone is "manager or senior level up", they can do whatever, but this guy ain't.

[twitchyzero]

I hear it all the time from people I work with that I show up after everyone, I roll in at 7am or later when others start at 6 or 6:30, and they say stupid shit like "good afternoon". And yet what those stupid people never see is that when they leave at 5:30pm, I am at the office until 7 or 8pm every night.

sounds like a toxic environment
i think i'm liking hourly more and more, i may never get the big bucks, but it's a lot more straight-forward

[CivicBlues]

Just start showing up late like he does... Fight fire with fire.

But you better be damn certain there isn't some other situation you are not aware of before you start doing that.

I hear it all the time from people I work with that I show up after everyone, I roll in at 7am or later when others start at 6 or 6:30, and they say stupid shit like "good afternoon". And yet what those stupid people never see is that when they leave at 5:30pm, I am at the office until 7 or 8pm every night. So like I say, just make sure you aren't misreading the scenario of how much work he is actually doing.

I think the bigger issue is that you're putting in 12-13 hour days everyday. Not what your coworkers think of you.

[6793026]

we have a whistle blower hot line, if you dial in, it HAS to be followed up. This was how I was able to report a co worker and get things dealt with professionally.

[ScizzMoney]

slip some fentanyl into his coffee

[Mr.Money]

what kind of Micky mouse operation are they running over there?,Even walmart wouldn't fuck around and allow workers to be late every day of the week by 10 minutes,cookie crumbs add up.

[AzNightmare]

what kind of Micky mouse operation are they running over there?,Even walmart wouldn't fuck around and allow workers to be late every day of the week by 10 minutes,cookie crumbs add up.

Walmart staff deal with customer service directly though, you have a few cashiers showing up late and all the early shoppers will have to line up longer before they can buy stuff. Other staff on the floor need to be ready to direct customers to the right aisles if they have question where stuff are located.

Office work that isn't unionized really depends on the structure of the office, the culture, how it's managed, the type of work the firm does, the type of role you have, etc. It can be all over the map.

[smoothie.]

sounds like someone is jealous

[Nlkko]

It's hard to determine what type of management style your manager is. Like some don't give a damn if your late everyday, as long as the work is done. Then there are those managers that micro manage and nit pick every minute you are late because there is a work hour policy everyone should abide to.

Definitely not fair for you or any of your colleagues that come to work on time. Essentially he is robbing work time and get paid the same as you guys unless he has a specific reason he needs to come late everyday that is not made aware of. How I see it is, come late, stay late. Work half time get paid half the time. It's one thing when someone is "manager or senior level up", they can do whatever, but this guy ain't.

Yeah this is literally the use of management. To oversee and manage. Otherwise you wouldn't need management.

Organizational behavior, like poor work ethics, is deeply rooted and most of the time the problem starts at the top. If this organization is ok with that type of behavior then you can't fight it. Either put up or leave.

[Koflach]

As much as the employee is the cause of the issue, the real problem is with your management team for letting him get away with this. If they simply stopped the problem when it started, it wouldn't be an issue anymore. Now the real problem they will have if they want to fire him is not having documented this. He could always fight it for wrongful dismissal if there is no actual documentation of his lateness. Hopefully someone is tracking things.

[R1CED`]

you can sort of guess at the different work ethics just from the replies in this discussion

this is the kind of shit that will only fly in a 'west coast lifestyle' climate where Thursday is the new Friday and an entire morning will be taken off for a massage therapy appointment

http://gif-finder.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Ari-Gold-Get-The-Fuck-Out.gif

[quasi]

Just start showing up late like he does... Fight fire with fire.

But you better be damn certain there isn't some other situation you are not aware of before you start doing that.

I hear it all the time from people I work with that I show up after everyone, I roll in at 7am or later when others start at 6 or 6:30, and they say stupid shit like "good afternoon". And yet what those stupid people never see is that when they leave at 5:30pm, I am at the office until 7 or 8pm every night. So like I say, just make sure you aren't misreading the scenario of how much work he is actually doing.

That's fair but not the case in this situation, I leave after he does. Most days I'm in the first one in the office and the last one to leave. I don't want him to match me, do 8 hours a day pull your weight and I'd be happy.

[originalhypa]

^
Props to you quasi, for having such a strong work ethic. You have opportunities, and from what I'm seeing you need to get yourself into a situation where you're appreciated for the effort that you put in. Any time I've made a change in my career it was a step forward. Truth is, there's only so much you can get out of a situation where work isn't valued.


you can sort of guess at the different work ethics just from the replies in this discussion

this is the kind of shit that will only fly in a 'west coast lifestyle' climate where Thursday is the new Friday and an entire morning will be taken off for a massage therapy appointment

Damn buddy, you make it sound so bad.
BabyRage


*makes appt for a wednesday morning massage

[quasi]

^
Props to you quasi, for having such a strong work ethic. You have opportunities, and from what I'm seeing you need to get yourself into a situation where you're appreciated for the effort that you put in. Any time I've made a change in my career it was a step forward. Truth is, there's only so much you can get out of a situation where work isn't valued.




Damn buddy, you make it sound so bad.
BabyRage


*makes appt for a wednesday morning massage

When I was younger I wasn't I did the minimum required, it took a serious scare and kick in the ass to realize that I wanted more and started working towards that. I work lots of hours, I take classes at night and online to better myself and I'm finally starting to see the benefits.

I don't know if this thread came off as me not happy where I'm at because really that isn't it. This is more of one of those things that annoys me and maybe it shouldn't.

[meme405]

sounds like a toxic environment
i think i'm liking hourly more and more, i may never get the big bucks, but it's a lot more straight-forward

I bill hourly. Not really a toxic environment, all my coworkers are pretty good, they just say stupid shit from time to time.

I think the bigger issue is that you're putting in 12-13 hour days everyday. Not what your coworkers think of you.

Varies from project to project, but 12.5 hour days for management is pretty standard for some jobs. I spent 8 months splitting Day shift and nightshift. So I was working 14-16 hours a day 7 days a week. Nobody travels to middle of bum fuck nowhere, or up in camps for fun. We're here to work, make money, and go home.

When I was younger I wasn't I did the minimum required, it took a serious scare and kick in the ass to realize that I wanted more and started working towards that. I work lots of hours, I take classes at night and online to better myself and I'm finally starting to see the benefits.

I don't know if this thread came off as me not happy where I'm at because really that isn't it. This is more of one of those things that annoys me and maybe it shouldn't.

I was the same way until I found something I liked and it gave me a solid push to work harder. Props to you for working and taking classes, I did something similar for a bit and it got to be a lot, so I know how tough that can be.

As for the issue at hand, every workplace will have some minor things, or issues that annoy you, I've worked in a lot of different companies, and a lot of different office spaces and projects, and inevitably there's always some sort of conflict. Much as I would like to say, just try to move on, I can see how that's tough when his work ethic can impact your bonuses at the end of the year.

[tiger_handheld]

work smart not hard.

sounds like buddy can handle more work.

[yray]

it's okay, buddy can now show up to work early and later to bitch on RS and watch youtube

# keeprschatalive

[originalhypa]

When I was younger I wasn't I did the minimum required, it took a serious scare and kick in the ass to realize that I wanted more and started working towards that. I work lots of hours, I take classes at night and online to better myself and I'm finally starting to see the benefits.

I don't know if this thread came off as me not happy where I'm at because really that isn't it. This is more of one of those things that annoys me and maybe it shouldn't.

Props to you man.
I think you have the right to be annoyed by this. Hopefully your superiors recognize this when it comes time to promote someone. I've seen it a few times in my career where the offender is the one who somehow reaps the rewards.

Early in my career I was given the responsibility to ensure that one of our top customers was happy. This allowed me to gain the trust of the customer which gave them the confidence to allow me to assist them in designing the cable infrastructure that we're running on right now.

Long story short, the manager that I was working with was probably the laziest individual I've ever had the pain to work with. The problem was, he was so good at hiding his laziness from his superiors that in the span of a decade he was now running a top dep't, making probably $150k/yr. And this was in the early 2000's. Everyone under him knew his style, and it was a running joke in the industry that if you get to work for him, chances are he is going to take credit for any good ideas that you had.

The guy is pushing mid 60's now, and while he no longer works for the big corporation, he still works, still makes 6 figures, and still does complete fuck all.

Some guys are just good at hiding it.

[AzNightmare]

When you move up, you don't necessarily work harder. You just make more important decisions.

I'm not sure if that was an actual quote I read somewhere, or it was just something within an article I read. I found it somewhat of an interesting perspective and will probably never forget it.

[SumAznGuy]

Lol, I work 10 hours a day I'm not much of a union honk. I said his work isn't bad "when he's there" he would get more done if he was there regularly.

When you're suppose to be in a "team" environment it is annoying at least to me that others don't pull their weight especially in a position where our bonuses are branch based and not based on individual production. In other words the less good work he picks up the less my bonuses are.

Have you tried explaining to him that the more work he puts in, the more everyone's bonus will be?
It's quite possible he wasn't explained that and is doing the bare minimum.

I guess it also doesn't help that the manager is the way they are and this guy knows it and is trying to see how much he can get away with.

Time to think about yourself and take a peek at what these other companies can offer.

[Raid3n]

Props to you man.
I think you have the right to be annoyed by this. Hopefully your superiors recognize this when it comes time to promote someone. I've seen it a few times in my career where the offender is the one who somehow reaps the rewards.

Early in my career I was given the responsibility to ensure that one of our top customers was happy. This allowed me to gain the trust of the customer which gave them the confidence to allow me to assist them in designing the cable infrastructure that we're running on right now.

Long story short, the manager that I was working with was probably the laziest individual I've ever had the pain to work with. The problem was, he was so good at hiding his laziness from his superiors that in the span of a decade he was now running a top dep't, making probably $150k/yr. And this was in the early 2000's. Everyone under him knew his style, and it was a running joke in the industry that if you get to work for him, chances are he is going to take credit for any good ideas that you had.

The guy is pushing mid 60's now, and while he no longer works for the big corporation, he still works, still makes 6 figures, and still does complete fuck all.

Some guys are just good at hiding it.

Sounds like BC Hydro lol

[320icar]

I know people who call in sick a minimum of one day week. That’s a minimum of 52 sick days a year. He’s been kicked from full time to part time, had benefits cut. Got back to full time and still calls in. Worst part is he’s friends with a manager so they usually ‘forget to write him up’. And right now he’s getting weekends off.

It’s really stirred the pot and a few people have gone to hr about it

Hey just an update. I posted this on Friday. He called in Friday, had the weekend off, left early Monday, called in Tuesday and called in todsy. Asked the manager about him and got some stupid response.

[punkwax]

^ that’s messed up. Costco doesn’t have a sick day limit?

[320icar]

Yeah of course we do. Something like 6 sick days a year

[Gerbs]

I work for one that has unlimited sick days. Seems like the most anyone pushes is like once a month.

[originalhypa]

Sounds like BC Hydro lol

Haha, so true.
It is a utility, but a publicly traded one that is still owned mostly by one family.

I've said too much already!

:lol

[twitchyzero]

damn, called in sick once in the 7 yrs i have been working

[fliptuner]

Be a contractor. Get paid for your efforts, not the amount of time you put in.

[instantneedles]

I had the same issue come up for me at my workplace. Except the person who was consistently late was my manager.

So what I did was I started arriving and leaving work when she did LOL.

Not only that. She started going on her phone during work when she was required to supervise me. And guess what? I started going on my phone too.

However, she makes up for it by being an extremely hard worker during the times she is there, and it seems to balance out her tardiness and inappropriate phone use. Everyone seems to respect her at work.

Rather than dwelling on her weaknesses, I started focusing more on her good qualities, which were actually qualities I lacked myself. Slowly but surely, I found that my work ethic started to improve because I focused on learning from her strengths.

[StanleyR]

here's another angle: none of your business?

if his manager doesn't think anything of it, then it's not an issue.

if it bothers you that much, get a promotion, become him boss, and fire him. Otherwise, who cares what he does?

Hate to say it, but I agree with this comment.

Recently I started at a company where I'm now hourly (always been salary for years). There's another member of my team who's salary. He used to start at the same time as the rest of us, but recently got the OK to start about 1.5 hours before everyone else does.

Every day I ensure I'm on time, as I have to punch a clock. If I'm late, I don't get paid. Simple as that.

One particular week I had to come in early to get some work done. I was the first on there and buddy on salary shows up 45 minutes after his scheduled start time. Funny thing is, he still left at his early scheduled end time. He did this regularly while I was starting early and made no mention of it. So I approached other members of our team. They didn't know what to do and escalated it to mgmt.

Our boss has done nothing about it, so I also will do nothing about it.
My term is over later this year so I'm just there for the pay and experience.
Nothing more, nothing less.

[Tawpie]

damn, called in sick once in the 7 yrs i have been working

I wonder how many people you've gotten sick in the 7 years you've been working.