[tegra7]

Nineteen years ago today I still remember that morning like it was yesterday.

#Neverforget

[El Bastardo]

I was driving up island in the early morning listening to CISL 650, one of the only stations I could pick up, and I remember them playing too much news. I flipped around the dial only to hear news on every station.

I got home and literally every station was playing footage, talking about what happened. I went over to my friend's place later that afternoon and we sat there, watching, stunned. Nobody had any answers about it.

[EvoFire]

I was still in highschool. They had everyone gathered to watch the news. I remember being stunned that the building just went down.

[quasi]

I remember watching in almost complete silence with my dad for like an hour before heading to work, we barley spoke just watched in horror and displief.

My mom and sister were travelling through the states by car at the time, if I remember right they got stuck over there for an extra day or two.

[Hondaracer]

Was in grade 9, I remember all the hard-cores saying time to join the army FailFish

[MG1]

I was getting ready to leave for work when my wife told me about it.......... it didn't hit me till later how unbelievable the whole thing was. Then the news about the other plane.

When I visited ground zero during my cross continent road trip, I remember it as a really eerie experience. This was years after the incident, but just looking at the display of names and signs at the site - it hit me hard. So much destruction. It amazes me how humans can do this kind of thing to one another.

[tiger_handheld]

Was in grade 9, I remember all the hard-cores saying time to join the army FailFish

how many of them did?

[Zedbra]

I was watching the news live, without sound, as I was getting ready to head out of the house. I thought it was a fire in San Fran at first, looked so sunny, then I witnessed the second plane fly into the building, I was stunned.

[punkwax]

I woke up for work, turned on the news in bed as I did every morning as part of my wake up routine and thought a movie was on. Saw the second plane hit live. Crazy day I’ll never forget.

[Traum]

It was surreal watching the second plane crash into the 2nd tower live, but then I don't know whether it was crazier to see that, or watch the 2nd tower crumble down live.

[twitchyzero]

and here we are not even 20 years later
way of life altered again by something we can't see that's killed far more than 9/11 and the subsequent war on terror

[Ch28]

I woke up for work, turned on the news in bed as I did every morning as part of my wake up routine and thought a movie was on. Saw the second plane hit live. Crazy day I’ll never forget.

I remember my alarm went off later because I had a free block in grade 12. I had Z95.3 on and woke up thinking it was really weird that they were being so serious as I was slowly waking up. They mentioned that a plane hit the twin towers and I thought it was some sort of stupid joke. Went outside to our living room, turned on the TV and saw the second plane crash into the other tower. It was so fucking surreal.

[underscore]

How could anyone forget with how Americans fetishize 9/11? The absurd part is how everyone then forgets everything aside from the plane crashes. The government basically abandoned the first responders who have suffered health issues related to the event so guys like Jon Stewart have to fight like hell to try and help them. Then everyone runs around scared of terrorists and ignores all the things actually killing people. Credit to the terrorists I suppose, they succeeded in creating a massively disproportionate amount of fear for the threat they actually pose. Per https://www.fcnl.org/updates/costs-of-war-by-the-numbers-396

313,000-336,000 civilians have been killed in U.S. wars since 2001
7,000 U.S. troops have been killed in war from 2001 through the end of 2018
173,000-177,000 local military and police have been killed since 2001
52,010 U.S. troops have been wounded in war since 2001
At least 7,950 private contractors working for the Pentagon have died in war since 2001
In 2009 more U.S. soldiers died from suicide than were killed in combat in either Iraq or Afghanistan


Roughly 2 million U.S. troops have been deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan 1.2 million are now eligible for VA services. 600,000 veterans have already been treated at veterans medical facilities
970,000 Iraq and Afghanistan veterans have registered disability claims with the Department of Veterans Affairs.
Nearly 50% of returning troops are eligible for some level of disability payment
Over 78,000 veterans have died from suicide since 2005
It is estimated that 1 in 3 soldiers who served in Iraq or Afghanistan will develop PTSD
The Rand Corporation has estimated that approximately 320,000 service members may have experienced traumatic brain injury during their deployment.
In 2014, an average of 20 veterans died from suicide every day, totaling 7,300 for the year.
In 2018, there were 321 active-duty suicides, the highest in 6 years.

There were 2977 deaths from the 9/11 attack. 2748 reported deaths in a single day for COVID, over 200k deaths in the US total.

[FN-2199]

I still remember this day very clearly. I remember waking up and seeing my mom in shock... I learned at that moment that I lost an uncle in the south tower (tower 2). I never did get to meet him.
When I visited the 9/11 memorial a few years ago there was almost a sense of familiarity... even though I never met the guy, it was an odd feeling knowing someone blood related died because of this attack.

[Zedbra]

How could anyone forget with how Americans fetishize 9/11? The absurd part is how everyone then forgets everything aside from the plane crashes. The government basically abandoned the first responders who have suffered health issues related to the event so guys like Jon Stewart have to fight like hell to try and help them. Then everyone runs around scared of terrorists and ignores all the things actually killing people. Credit to the terrorists I suppose, they succeeded in creating a massively disproportionate amount of fear for the threat they actually pose. Per https://www.fcnl.org/updates/costs-of-war-by-the-numbers-396

313,000-336,000 civilians have been killed in U.S. wars since 2001
7,000 U.S. troops have been killed in war from 2001 through the end of 2018
173,000-177,000 local military and police have been killed since 2001
52,010 U.S. troops have been wounded in war since 2001
At least 7,950 private contractors working for the Pentagon have died in war since 2001
In 2009 more U.S. soldiers died from suicide than were killed in combat in either Iraq or Afghanistan


Roughly 2 million U.S. troops have been deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan 1.2 million are now eligible for VA services. 600,000 veterans have already been treated at veterans medical facilities
970,000 Iraq and Afghanistan veterans have registered disability claims with the Department of Veterans Affairs.
Nearly 50% of returning troops are eligible for some level of disability payment
Over 78,000 veterans have died from suicide since 2005
It is estimated that 1 in 3 soldiers who served in Iraq or Afghanistan will develop PTSD
The Rand Corporation has estimated that approximately 320,000 service members may have experienced traumatic brain injury during their deployment.
In 2014, an average of 20 veterans died from suicide every day, totaling 7,300 for the year.
In 2018, there were 321 active-duty suicides, the highest in 6 years.

There were 2977 deaths from the 9/11 attack. 2748 reported deaths in a single day for COVID, over 200k deaths in the US total.

Freedom has a cost, and brave men and women offer to fight to keep those freedoms alive for us. It isn't a fetish, it is our culture; until there is no longer someone willing to fight for it. Personally, I like our freedoms and liberties.

[underscore]

Freedom has a cost, and brave men and women offer to fight to keep those freedoms alive for us. It isn't a fetish, it is our culture; until there is no longer someone willing to fight for it. Personally, I like our freedoms and liberties.

I'm not talking about the military in general. I'm talking specifically about 9/11, and Americans absolutely fetishize that event. Everyone likes freedoms and liberties but the response to 9/11 took away a hell of a lot of them (while protecting none). Nobody seemed to mind though because all the US gov't has to do is bring up the foreign terrorist bogeyman again and everyone gobbles it up.

edit: though I will add, Americans absolutely do the same with their military, which may not be such a bad thing except for the absolutely appalling way they're treated when they return home.

[StylinRed]

Freedom has a cost, and brave men and women offer to fight to keep those freedoms alive for us. It isn't a fetish, it is our culture; until there is no longer someone willing to fight for it. Personally, I like our freedoms and liberties.

US culture isn't ours bruh, even though it influences ours heavily (unfortunately)

[!LittleDragon]

They also lost more troops than were killed in 9/11 and spent a trillion dollars to get Bin Laden.... 1 guy... The US could've spared thousands of troops and rebuilt the world trade center 263 times. I get the need for revenge but where's the point where revenge isn't worth it?

[Manic!]

Freedom has a cost, and brave men and women offer to fight to keep those freedoms alive for us. It isn't a fetish, it is our culture; until there is no longer someone willing to fight for it. Personally, I like our freedoms and liberties.

Where they brave or where they suckers and losers?

[twitchyzero]

US culture isn't ours bruh, even though it influences ours heavily (unfortunately)

just look at our consumption behaviours: apple, netflix, instagram, google searches, costco and amazon, the fuel in our cars/electricity in our homes etc

almost everything is interconnected regardless of canada or germany

[Ch28]

They also lost more troops than were killed in 9/11 and spent a trillion dollars to get Bin Laden.... 1 guy... The US could've spared thousands of troops and rebuilt the world trade center 263 times. I get the need for revenge but where's the point where revenge isn't worth it?

That's because he was used as the low hanging fruit. The one reason that united all Americans regardless of political affiliation. The fact that I need to mention politics shows what's wrong with their country.

[pastarocket]

That was a horrible day. I was at SFU's Burnaby campus for classes when the news broke about the planes hitting the twin towers. :heckno:

[Traum]

They also lost more troops than were killed in 9/11 and spent a trillion dollars to get Bin Laden.... 1 guy... The US could've spared thousands of troops and rebuilt the world trade center 263 times. I get the need for revenge but where's the point where revenge isn't worth it?
I don't think it is fair to say the gazillions worth of dollars were spent to hunt down just that one guy (bin Laden) though. IMO, it was the whole prolonged war waged against al-Qaeda / ISIS / ISIL / Daesh. And overall, the whole world would have been worse off had these extremist bastards not been largely beaten into disarray, even though their different branches aren't completely dead yet.

[SiRV]

I don't think it is fair to say the gazillions worth of dollars were spent to hunt down just that one guy (bin Laden) though. IMO, it was the whole prolonged war waged against al-Qaeda / ISIS / ISIL / Daesh. And overall, the whole world would have been worse off had these extremist bastards not been largely beaten into disarray, even though their different branches aren't completely dead yet.

I thought ISIS / ISIL formed in the absence of Al queda, because Al Queda was already so decimated by the allied forces

[MG1]

Just watching the Mets vs Jays game. Mets players wearing NYPD caps to commemorate 9-11. A good reminder of how not ACABs.

How can we ask for cutbacks to police when they're the ones who are going to save your sorry ass one day. One day, they won't be able to respond for one reason or another.

Every time I see a member of the VPD, whether it's at Fujiya or at a corner during a traffic incident, I thank them and make them feel appreciated. I have/had many friends who were on the force. It ain't easy being a law enforcement officer in these times.

Anyway /sermon.

[Traum]

MG1,

On the topic of de-funding the police, I've said elsewhere before that the movement found a catchy but polarizing and extremely unfortunate name. The core argument behind the movement isn't really to strip the police of their necessary funding. Rather, the real purpose of the movement is to recognize that with for certain issues such as addiction or mental health issues, the police is a poor resource and the wrong resource to deploy to address them. They simply got shafted on that one by virtue of the fact that they are available 24/7/365. And because they are a poor match for handling these issues, funding for the police that would have been spent on these types of issues should be re-allocated to the proper resources such as councilors and mental health practitioners.

Recently, the Calgary police chief has come out to pretty much express exactly the same sentiments (https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/09/10/calgary-police-propose-re-allocating-budget-during-meeting-with-city-council/) -- this is a respectable police chief that gets what the problem is.

With our current VPD, I am extremely disappointed with Chief Palmer. Instead of making any effort to understand the problems that others are trying to tell him, his instinct is to adopt a position that denies the problem exists, and tries to justify how the proper course of action is to further bolster police funding and resources. FailFish

How can we ask for cutbacks to police when they're the ones who are going to save your sorry ass one day. One day, they won't be able to respond for one reason or another.

Every time I see a member of the VPD, whether it's at Fujiya or at a corner during a traffic incident, I thank them and make them feel appreciated. I have/had many friends who were on the force. It ain't easy being a law enforcement officer in these times.

Anyway /sermon.

[Zedbra]

US culture isn't ours bruh, even though it influences ours heavily (unfortunately)

Our freedoms and liberties are sustained the same way, and that cost is blood. bruh.

Where they brave or where they suckers and losers?

If you don't stand behind them, feel free to stand in front of them.

[Manic!]

Our freedoms and liberties are sustained the same way, and that cost is blood. bruh.



If you don't stand behind them, feel free to stand in front of them.

Don't worry I got my $5 sticker from Canadian Tire.

[GS8]

It was surreal watching the second plane crash into the 2nd tower live, but then I don't know whether it was crazier to see that, or watch the 2nd tower crumble down live.

Then there was watching the trapped people jump. I guess they felt it would be easier to go that way than to be slowly burned alive...

Just watching the Mets vs Jays game. Mets players wearing NYPD caps to commemorate 9-11. A good reminder of how not ACABs.

How can we ask for cutbacks to police when they're the ones who are going to save your sorry ass one day. One day, they won't be able to respond for one reason or another.

Every time I see a member of the VPD, whether it's at Fujiya or at a corner during a traffic incident, I thank them and make them feel appreciated. I have/had many friends who were on the force. It ain't easy being a law enforcement officer in these times.

Anyway /sermon.

https://i2.wp.com/politicallyincorrecthumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/bad-police-doctors-ministers-politicians-compared-to-good-ones.jpg

As much as people say Trump is dA WorSTesT PrESidNT 3VeR, I'm still waiting for him to send tens of thousands of young soldiers to a country under a lie so bold, the UN disputes it yet the US still proceeds with it because war profit$ told them to.

You know, like previous administrations did...

[Manic!]

Then there was watching the trapped people jump. I guess they felt it would be easier to go that way than to be slowly burned alive...



https://i2.wp.com/politicallyincorrecthumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/bad-police-doctors-ministers-politicians-compared-to-good-ones.jpg

As much as people say Trump is dA WorSTesT PrESidNT 3VeR, I'm still waiting for him to send tens of thousands of young soldiers to a country under a lie so bold, the UN disputes it yet the US still proceeds with it because war profit$ told them to.

You know, like previous administrations did...

previous administrations you mean like bush a republican?

[Zedbra]

Don't worry I got my $5 sticker from Canadian Tire.

Make better choices, buy better things in the free market

[Traum]

Then there was watching the trapped people jump. I guess they felt it would be easier to go that way than to be slowly burned alive...
You know, GS8, I have kind of forgotten about that until you mentioned it...

Damn... The visuals are flashing in front of my eyes again now... :(

[tegra7]

Ladder 3 NY firetruck trailer being lowered into GroundZero to rest at the future 9/11 museum. This was back in 2011 I believe.

https://youtu.be/SozGjvqRCAY

https://youtu.be/AkJ0K0IBOA4

[punkwax]

On our last day in NY my wife and I went shopping and happened upon the funeral of a 911 hero, NYFD Chief Ronald Spadafora. He was the head of safety during clean up and died of the toxins ingested as a result.

I was at the 911 Memorial Museum the day before and it was an experience that I’ll never forget. The streets were packed and the energy was palpable.

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-metro-fire-spadafora-funeral-20180629-story.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/29/nyregion/spadafora-funeral-september-11.html

[welfare]

previous administrations you mean like bush a republican?

Not a single day passed of Obama's entire two terms that America wasn't at war, with at least seven countries.
That previous administration?

[Manic!]

Not a single day passed of Obama's entire two terms that America wasn't at war, with at least seven countries.
That previous administration?

he U.S. Has Been At War 222 Out of 239 Years.

[Manic!]

Make better choices, buy better things in the free market

But then how am I going to show everybody I support the troops?

[Zedbra]

But then how am I going to show everybody I support the troops?

You mocking the idea shows support; they gave you that right and sustain it.

[MG1]

How could anyone forget with how Americans fetishize 9/11?

I would call it the Paul Walker Effect.

To those who didn't know him or watched the Furious movies, it's kind of baffling. To those who followed him and the movies it was a huge deal. Most importantly, it's the way he died.

just my 2 bits.


All deaths matter. Namo Amida Butsu. Rest in Peace.

[welfare]

he U.S. Has Been At War 222 Out of 239 Years.

And all with bipartisan support through Congress.
Except Obama's wars. He didn't feel the need for approval to leave countries destroyed.
Those same people call Trump a dictator :lol

[Manic!]

You mocking the idea shows support; they gave you that right and sustain it.

If you want to support the troops join them. Slapping a sticker on the back of your truck that you bought at Canadian tire does next to nothing.

And all with bipartisan support through Congress.
Except Obama's wars. He didn't feel the need for approval to leave countries destroyed.
Those same people call Trump a dictator :lol

On January 4, 2020, the White House officially notified Congress that it had carried out a fatal drone strike against Iranian General Qasem Soleimani a day earlier.

I guess you don't consider that an act of war.

[Hehe]

And all with bipartisan support through Congress.
Except Obama's wars. He didn't feel the need for approval to leave countries destroyed.
Those same people call Trump a dictator :lol

You can't argue with some lefties.

They live in the comfort of peace and stability and argue why are we putting so many "controls" in place. And that law and order don't matter... it's just something created to keep those unfortunate under control.

It never occurred to them that peace takes money and strong-arm policies or simply brute forces to intimidate others in the first place.

For them it's like "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche" a la Marie Antoinette. They think everything they take for granted are just that... free. Never needed to work or fought for it.

They truly believe that a world with no rules and orders are going to be the utopia because everyone are like saints and would do no wrong, we are all equal.

:rukidding:FailFish:joy::fuckthatshit:

[Zedbra]

If you want to support the troops join them. Slapping a sticker on the back of your truck that you bought at Canadian tire does next to nothing.



You're a real piece. This is the 'fetish' that this thread is about, and you will stop at nothing to mock others in support of showing respect to garner pithy attention.

[Manic!]

You're a real piece. This is the 'fetish' that this thread is about, and you will stop at nothing to mock others in support of showing respect to garner pithy attention.

2,977 died on Sept 11 because a piece of shit trained by Americans told some pieces of shit to fly some planes into some buildings. Because of that and the lie saddam still had american made WMDs hundreds of thousands of people have died and trillions have been spent. Most of Afganistan is still run by the taliban and Iraq is worse off. Good job metals for everyone.

[underscore]

You're a real piece. This is the 'fetish' that this thread is about, and you will stop at nothing to mock others in support of showing respect to garner pithy attention.

I don't think you're getting the point I was trying to make however I'm not sure how to convey my thoughts more coherently. This is not meant as an insult, I'm just not a very well spoken (typed?) person. I'll take a stab at it though.

There's nothing wrong with showing respect to those killed in the events but there are aspects of it that leave a foul taste in my mouth. One is how much of it seems to be lip service because there is a massive emphasis on "never forget" but the first responders suffering from health issues that are a result of what they were exposed to at ground zero are still fighting to get the support and care they need. Maybe the video below will give a better sense of how large the gulf seems between what is said and what is done.

Another is how the memory of 9/11 has been abused by people in power as an easy button to justify whatever military actions they wanted to take. I don't recall what they used in the 90's but before that I think it was usually communism, which as Manic pointed out is how the US ended up training bin Laden and Rambo III having end credits that did not age well. Yes there is a financial and human cost of conflicts fought to defend the security interests of a nation. But how much of what has been done by the US military is actually for national security and not just financial interests masquerading as defense? Either way, how is defense a justification for the deaths of 300k+ civilians in the Middle East? How many of those troops who signed up to defend their nation were killed for someones bank account? How can veterans be cared for so poorly that 11x as many are killed as a result of suicide compared to combat? Maybe I'm wrong but for me part of supporting the troops is not wanting them to risk harm unless necessary and questioning the motivations of whoever is putting them in harms way.

https://youtu.be/_uYpDC3SRpM

[Manic!]

https://i.stack.imgur.com/gylUa.jpg

[Zedbra]

I don't think you're getting the point I was trying to make however I'm not sure how to convey my thoughts more coherently. This is not meant as an insult, I'm just not a very well spoken (typed?) person. I'll take a stab at it though.

There's nothing wrong with showing respect to those killed in the events but there are aspects of it that leave a foul taste in my mouth. One is how much of it seems to be lip service because there is a massive emphasis on "never forget" but the first responders suffering from health issues that are a result of what they were exposed to at ground zero are still fighting to get the support and care they need. Maybe the video below will give a better sense of how large the gulf seems between what is said and what is done.

Another is how the memory of 9/11 has been abused by people in power as an easy button to justify whatever military actions they wanted to take. I don't recall what they used in the 90's but before that I think it was usually communism, which as Manic pointed out is how the US ended up training bin Laden and Rambo III having end credits that did not age well. Yes there is a financial and human cost of conflicts fought to defend the security interests of a nation. But how much of what has been done by the US military is actually for national security and not just financial interests masquerading as defense? Either way, how is defense a justification for the deaths of 300k+ civilians in the Middle East? How many of those troops who signed up to defend their nation were killed for someones bank account? How can veterans be cared for so poorly that 11x as many are killed as a result of suicide compared to combat? Maybe I'm wrong but for me part of supporting the troops is not wanting them to risk harm unless necessary and questioning the motivations of whoever is putting them in harms way.

[

Thanks for clearing that up. You can help veterans out when they return, I help two here in town (I make sure my children are also involved) that suffer from PTSD due to active combat in Irag and Afghanistan. Putting your money where your mouth is becomes a personal choice, and if the phrase 'never forget' is only a slogan to a person, well, you know what it means for them to only talk the talk.

Helping people is becoming a thing of the past; most prefer to spend their time being keyboard warriors that rant their selfish opinions, rather than taking the time to help those in their communities that have helped everyone sustain the liberty of which those very same keyboard warriors enjoy.

[donk.]

https://www.ae911truth.org/

USA did 911

[GS8]

previous administrations you mean like bush a republican?

Yes

And Obama, a Democrat though with less soldiers but more aerial assault vehicles:

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2017-01-17/obamas-covert-drone-war-in-numbers-ten-times-more-strikes-than-bush

[SiRV]

It's unfortunate that Obama did what he did... Especially after running on the hope and change message + getting out of wars.

It's a tough grind for any president, even Trump, and possibly even Sanders (in an alternate universe) to really beat out the military industrial complex funded deep state. Too much money to give up if the world was at peace.