[meme405]

https://globalnews.ca/news/7339783/vancouver-city-hall-furniture/

Disgusting. I can tell you right now, I don't sit at a $1000+ chair in my office.

These workers and politicians who spend your hard earned and payed tax dollars on frivolous things like this should be ashamed, and you should all be furious about this type of behaviour.

I dont give a shit how ergonomic the chairs are, unless you are google or FB, or any company like that raking in the money faster than you can spend it, you have no right to take stakeholder money and spend it buying ultra high end furniture, just so you can sit your lazy ass on it doing fuck all for the tax paying population.

All this fight for democracy in the world... WHY? democracy is bullshit, its gotten fucked by shitty politicians that can't do anything but think about themselves. At least in a dictatorship we dont have to pay for all the bureaucracy and wastefulness, and even if it was wasteful, it would be one persons wastefulness, not the thousands we currently waste on.

Disgusting.

[twitchyzero]

more residential streets need metered parking

oh and gotta ask the province for covid bailout because we managed to blow 30 years of property tax gains over a few rocky months

[bobbinka]

Some points/comments from reddit


There is a certain level of professionalism I expect out of a governmental office to be honest. If you're seeing guests, chances are you're conducting business with them. Best to provide them with something that they'd expect to sit in, and the type of chairs these guys buy can last decades. One thing I have noticed with customers of mine who aren't comfortable with guests at their modest or "shitty" offices, is that they tend to want to meet and spend time outside of their offices. My office has chairs at the IT desk that cost nearly a thousand bucks - great way of placating me while the bumble about with my machine. I also consider decor and office an investment in my retention rates, you want your employees to like the place they work at.

All of this really reeks of jealousy. This isn't the ho-hum office of some 120 population rust belt town in the decline, it's literally the office of the city with the highest GDP in Western Canada.



Global News is really reporting on an office furniture delivery order?

Is this suggesting city employees should be sitting on folding chairs from Costco, or keep using the ones from their last era of furniture in 2011 (read: 9 year old equipment)



I actually laughed out loud when I watched this air at 6 and wondered if the filming crew was new. Clearly they’ve never looked at the overall state of city hall, or sat in the chairs in the Media Center.



Like any large organization, I'm sure the City has a lot of spending inefficiencies, but this is not something worth reporting on, especially with a title like that.


I'm okay with this. You need to equip your staff properly. The order may have been made in May, but the money was most certainly committed to the renovation well in advance. You can't just back out of a contract without penalties. People see a dollar sign and freak out. The article even says that, under the contract, they won't be paying retail price.

Office furniture, even if it's expensive, is an asset. Herman Miller chairs come with 12 year warranty and are reliable. They are still worth a lot of money years after. You can sell them back out 10 years later for $500 and someone would still buy it.

Having said that, i don't actually like Herman Miller. I prefer Steelcase.

[twitchyzero]

the way i see it: you cant ask to cut essential services like policing and be dealing with an overdose crisis while placing your butts on MoMA pieces

'well order went in well before the pandemic' is a cop out

retail or not, how big is 2F at city hall? doesn't that make it worse that it's closer to cost AND still racked up over 300k on furnishing alone?

meanwhile most organizations are cutting back because of wfh, fine go through with it but dont tell me they're just gonna collect dust in offices at 20% capacity

lol @ reddit guy who thinks furniture from 2011 is last era, born yesterday maybe?

[quasi]

Bad optics and bad timing, of course you can cancel your order.

So many construction projects, even ones that had the green light were cancelled or put on hold due to covid. I mean most of those were private companies so they actually have to use logic and a little bit of business awareness in their decision making.

If I was a Vancouver tax payer I would not have a problem with them spending money on furniture or the amount they spent but use a little common sense when you're crying you have no money don't be spending money on shit that you really can live without for a while until things are a little more normal.

[hud 91gt]

I didn’t open the article, but good ergonomics are actually fairly important in this day and age as we all know city workers are about as entitled and whiny as they come.

Workplace injuries cost companies a lot of money. The more claims the higher your premiums (or less your discount). Time off work... blah blah blah. Not to mention decent quality furniture will actually last a long time. The few city halls I’ve walked though are ancient with furniture to match. That stuff from the 70’s wasn’t cheap either.

I wouldn’t be so quick to judge, they probably waste more money in more stupid places then some decent quality furniture.

[stewie]

It has it's hidden pros and obvious cons in my mind.

The timing definitely makes it look bad in the public eye but it could be beneficial in compo claims. I can tell you first hand they've a healthy acceptable paycheck every two weeks with quite the sick plan which gets abused, followed by knowing they've job security. Not everyone abuses it, I haven't taken a sick day in 6 years and my chair has duct tape on the armrest because I ripped the padding open a few years ago.
I do know of a few people who've become known as "compo queens" who go off for weeks/months over the stupidest things you could imagine. They'll play volleyball or something outside of work hours and get a sore wrist then come go to work the next day and go make a first aid claim that the crappy mouse and pad they use have been irritating their wrist. Cool.. go see a Doctor. Dr. says to ice it for a week and now they're sitting at home with a paycheck watching the price is right every day while your tax money is paying for it and they get to keep their vacation hours.

Cut out the "culprit" (the crap office chairs that give them back pain with a 6 month compo vacation) and it should reduce the credibility of people making those claims. They'll still happen, but they shouldn't as much as they do now.

Do I agree with all of this? No. Man up and use whats available or buy used office chairs/desks from a warehouse that specifically sells used items for a huge discount. As much as I'd like to say man up, I can't. Believe it or not most of the claims I've ever seen are by women who work in offices who will go as far as going on stress leave because they don't like the person they have to sit beside.. One more waste of tax dollars - There's 5 individuals I know of who complained about sitting all day and thousands were spent on buying them motorized desk risers... I've never once seen them use them.

TL;DR: Crap furniture = pathetic fake compo claims resulting in paid staycations from what I've seen. Those that do get new furniture items have significantly reduced complaints and "work related injuries".

I can go on but I won't.

/rant

[Hondaracer]

Shit mayor Kennedy Stewart - “We won’t take the poison chalice of a govt. loan to bail out CoV”

A month later “yes let’s proceed with a 2 million dollar city hall Reno”

Guy is a fucking imbecile.

To everyone saying good chairs are an investment etc. I don’t disagree. However, how many CoV staffers are actually working from city hall still? They just said on the news much of this office furniture is to refurbish old rooms which have not been used in quite some time. If you’re just filling board rooms and offices that aren’t going to be used until covid is behind us, this is a huge misstep.

Also you’re dreaming if you think the incompetent beaucracy that exists within city hall would ever actually follow through on a warantee claim on a chair as opposed to burying it in a coat closet until it gets thrown out

[Spoon]

Depending on the number of staff, 300k might not be that much. You certainly don't expect going into CoV's office and sitting on Ikea furniture.

[bcrdukes]

I don't feel that this was worth reporting. $317K for office furniture is a drop in the bucket. My personal opinion is they made a sound decision in buying furniture that is built to last, with a solid warranty. The public is taking this out of proportion. COVID or not, the city's procurement team likely took advantage of the situation, made a deal with the distributor or Herman Miller directly, and got a discount with the bulk purchase. I mean, it's not like the City took the $317K and spent it at No. 5 orange to woo Chinese investors to buy and build more homes for overseas investments.

[68style]

https://globalnews.ca/news/7339783/vancouver-city-hall-furniture/

Disgusting. I can tell you right now, I don't sit at a $1000+ chair in my office.

These workers and politicians who spend your hard earned and payed tax dollars on frivolous things like this should be ashamed, and you should all be furious about this type of behaviour.

I dont give a shit how ergonomic the chairs are, unless you are google or FB, or any company like that raking in the money faster than you can spend it, you have no right to take stakeholder money and spend it buying ultra high end furniture, just so you can sit your lazy ass on it doing fuck all for the tax paying population.

All this fight for democracy in the world... WHY? democracy is bullshit, its gotten fucked by shitty politicians that can't do anything but think about themselves. At least in a dictatorship we dont have to pay for all the bureaucracy and wastefulness, and even if it was wasteful, it would be one persons wastefulness, not the thousands we currently waste on.

Disgusting.

Lots of assumptions in your rant man.

You missed the Covid thread? Half of people on RS were debating which $1,500+ chair to buy... you’re not seeing the big picture, you make people sit in shit chairs all day and they get hooped physically from it they miss work and cost the system a tonne of money that way.

Bad timing? Maybe... But $317K is nothing in a city budget. Fuck I hate Stewart as much as anyone else does, but this is a weird place to direct your vitriol, bashing the lower end staff who are just trying to have a decent spot to work in.

Also the “AlL GoVeRNmEnT WorKeRS do NOTHiNg” rant is the oldest eyeroll in the book, I work on a fed system not CoV but I know people over at CoV they’re busier than shit and so am I... I can name a whole bunch of people in private that are playing video games and watching Netflix half the day while they’re in work from home. For the record, I sit in a chair I found going to surplus in a corner somewhere, but I’m just thankful I’ve got good health and not in chronic pain of any sort, I don’t feel any ill will toward people around me that got assessed by a professional and needed a better chair or whatnot. Appreciate what you have instead of spitting toxicity because you think you understand another persons plight?

And asking for a dictatorship for transparency/waste reduction? Bro... lost your damn mind hahaha! Dictator would have bough the furniture for 10x the price from his brother who is suddenly a “furniture importer” and half of it wouldn’t even actually exist and then given the furniture out to their family and friends and no one would ever know about it or see the bill. They don’t exactly have FOI in those places man...

Covid state of mind

[underscore]

As others have said quality office equipment isn't cheap but compared to other costs it's peanuts. A $1k chair is good for 10+ years. Paying $100/yr to ensure someone you're paying $50k+/yr is comfortable seems like a no brainer to me. Not to mention a quick search said the overall city operating costs are $1.6B/yr. I'm sure they've got waste, but maybe look at something bigger than something that works out to 0.002% of the budget.

Without a breakdown of what they actually bought though this article is especially worthless. It may be getting used less now but that just means it'll last longer, and buying in bulk right now they may have been able to get an even better discount than normal because most people aren't buying office equipment now.

[winson604]

I work for COV and my office was one of the first in the City to buy Herman Millar chairs, I can tell you that we've had them since 2009, they have been sat the shit out of for 11 years and we've only had 1 single chair break and zero others needing any type of maintenance at all. I've bought those "nice looking" staples chairs before and they just go to shits after a couple years and the ergonomics suck, how much is an injury worth?

[punkwax]

https://globalnews.ca/news/7339783/vancouver-city-hall-furniture/

Disgusting. I can tell you right now, I don't sit at a $1000+ chair in my office.

These workers and politicians who spend your hard earned and payed tax dollars on frivolous things like this should be ashamed, and you should all be furious about this type of behaviour.

I dont give a shit how ergonomic the chairs are, unless you are google or FB, or any company like that raking in the money faster than you can spend it, you have no right to take stakeholder money and spend it buying ultra high end furniture, just so you can sit your lazy ass on it doing fuck all for the tax paying population.

All this fight for democracy in the world... WHY? democracy is bullshit, its gotten fucked by shitty politicians that can't do anything but think about themselves. At least in a dictatorship we dont have to pay for all the bureaucracy and wastefulness, and even if it was wasteful, it would be one persons wastefulness, not the thousands we currently waste on.

Disgusting.

https://media.tenor.com/images/7e36f448e032d6ef74d41adfe736d359/tenor.gif

[GLOW]

I didn’t open the article, but good ergonomics are actually fairly important in this day and age as we all know city workers are about as entitled and whiny as they come.

Workplace injuries cost companies a lot of money. The more claims the higher your premiums (or less your discount). Time off work... blah blah blah. Not to mention decent quality furniture will actually last a long time. The few city halls I’ve walked though are ancient with furniture to match. That stuff from the 70’s wasn’t cheap either.

I wouldn’t be so quick to judge, they probably waste more money in more stupid places then some decent quality furniture.

i was going to post something similar.

also, some firms ensure field staff have the right/best tools to do their job, office staff should be provided with proper tools to do theirs as well.

Shit mayor Kennedy Stewart - “We won’t take the poison chalice of a govt. loan to bail out CoV”

A month later “yes let’s proceed with a 2 million dollar city hall Reno”

Guy is a fucking imbecile.

To everyone saying good chairs are an investment etc. I don’t disagree. However, how many CoV staffers are actually working from city hall still? They just said on the news much of this office furniture is to refurbish old rooms which have not been used in quite some time. If you’re just filling board rooms and offices that aren’t going to be used until covid is behind us, this is a huge misstep.

Also you’re dreaming if you think the incompetent beaucracy that exists within city hall would ever actually follow through on a warantee claim on a chair as opposed to burying it in a coat closet until it gets thrown out

good point. If most are meetings are now virtual, and appears to be going that way, this should be re-assessed to staff/areas where it needs to be used (i.e. the new normal). I'm sure many large firms are assessing their office space needs (downsizing) and IT infrastructure (upgrading) moving forward. I suppose a slightly diff scenario here in that city hall won't be used for anything else other than city use so no downsizing per se, but the timing/optics certainly isn't the greatest. i wonder if the purchase couldn't be halted or cancelled without a hefty penalty, such as a 30% restocking fee and forced to go through with it regardless, or if it required a non-refundable 50% down payment or something.

[Hondaracer]

Global mentioned that these chairs were part of a larger 2.X million dollar renovation for rooms within city hall that “haven’t been renovated in 30 years”

So I think there’s more to it than just the office chairs which again, I’m not completely against but timing is poor.

[EvoFire]

Zero problems with this. Office furniture is expensive, good office furniture is even more expensive. CoV can't possibly buy used furniture due to liability problems, and honestly replacing a $100 chair every year is probably less cost effective than buying a $1200 chair that works for 10 years as there's costs, inefficiencies, and work time lost that goes into buying and replacing a $100 chair 10x.

Why don't we talk about why GlobalNews is spitting out sensationalist articles like these to stir the already boiling over pot unnecessarily? This is only news to people who know nothing about how to run a business.

Next thing you know the maintenance team of BCHydro takes delivery of an order of $1M equipment and someone makes a fuss about nothing.

Non-news

[bcrdukes]

Our campus purchased thousands of office chairs over 6 years ago, running on to 7. They're no Herman Miller, but let's just say it's the Toyota Tercel of the 90s equivalent in terms of brand/make/model.

While they did hold up against the test of time, they are now shipping them to employees who need them to accommodate the work-from-home situation, while purchasing new chairs (I believe Steelcase or Herman Miller this time hahaha) but in smaller quantities to meet the "new norm" of back-to-office work health and safety work policies.

We once had the stereotypical bland and boring office furniture, especially chairs, that were just so bad for you. We had a lot of staff, especially our technicians go on short and long term disability due to poor ergonomics. The cost to the company to help them get rehab and physio etc. was tremendous, and quite frankly quite horrific. As a result of the new chairs, ergonomic related injuries were reduced drastically by over 90%.

Edit: Let's not forget, companies, institutions and the like, will be ramping up back-to-work programs where people slowly come back to their places of work. Albeit not full time, but staggered and maybe once or twice a week.

Speaking for myself only, the place I work at has allowed people to come back to work based on business requirements (i.e. requirement to access labs for research and development) and essential service staff (i.e. building maintenance and facilities staff) Next year, employees will have the option of coming back to the office, limited to once or twice a week only. So to say that the office furniture purchased during this time is a waste of time/space/money, is not exactly true.

More so, logically, you want to decommission your old furniture with the least amount of people around, while limiting the amount of people bringing in the new furniture, and slowly introduce your employees back to the office in phases. It cost more to have companies come in to decommission furniture after business hours, and there is often a premium to it; Businesses like this exist,and are very profitable. Last thing we need is a rave party of gatherings at the office with hundreds of people sitting beside one another, right?

[Hondaracer]

Zero problems with this. Office furniture is expensive, good office furniture is even more expensive. CoV can't possibly buy used furniture due to liability problems, and honestly replacing a $100 chair every year is probably less cost effective than buying a $1200 chair that works for 10 years as there's costs, inefficiencies, and work time lost that goes into buying and replacing a $100 chair 10x.

Why don't we talk about why GlobalNews is spitting out sensationalist articles like these to stir the already boiling over pot unnecessarily? This is only news to people who know nothing about how to run a business.

Next thing you know the maintenance team of BCHydro takes delivery of an order of $1M equipment and someone makes a fuss about nothing.

Non-news

While I agree that I hate these kind of sensationalist/sob stories that global seems to have a tendency to run I think given the current state of the CoV it’s good to hold their feet to the fire as often as possible even if it is just to bring to light their actions to residents who otherwise would be ignorant to them.

Their reporting on the matter and their chopped up clip of the city official explaining where the money is going leaves somthing to be desired however

[Qmx323]

Those who are mad about this don't think workplace injuries from bad ergonomics exist.

A 300K expenditure for those kinds of chairs, isn't it insurance for their insurance?

You only get ONE body, one spine, one neck. Treat them well.

[DGN23]

I'm not a CoV tax payer so I don't care how much the chairs cost. However, just a few months ago the mayor was screaming about how the City was going to go broke.

Maybe people would feel better about the $1000 chairs if the people who sat in them didn't mismanage the finances so badly that the city was on the brink of bankruptcy.

[bcrdukes]

Having said that, i don't actually like Herman Miller. I prefer Steelcase.

lol is this your protest against the city's decision? :D

(I'm kidding)

[bcrdukes]

I'm not a CoV tax payer so I don't care how much the chairs cost. However, just a few months ago the mayor was screaming about how the City was going to go broke.

Maybe people would feel better about the $1000 chairs if the people who sat in them didn't mismanage the finances so badly that the city was on the brink of bankruptcy.

As others have said in the thread, I don't think the full story is being shared, and likely the statements and references were edited to sensationalize the article. The purchase of the furniture could have possibly taken place late last year, allowing the manufacturer/distributor to place the order as part of a production run, thus allowing some additional lead time. Factor in the COVID situation, production likely was stalled, and the financial commitment was already legally binding and committed.

I personally did not read into the details of how or what the mayor cited the city being on the brink of bankruptcy, but like any business, you need a steady stream of cash flow in order to stay afloat, or you default, or go into arrears. There are operational activities you simply cannot skimp on, such as garbage collection/waste, and other essential services. if any of you guys remember the garbage strike and transit strike back in the early 2000s - man, that was terrible. Could it be that the mayor was the boy who cried wolf in anticipation of the city's financial failure? I'm not sure.

[GLOW]

Global mentioned that these chairs were part of a larger 2.X million dollar renovation for rooms within city hall that “haven’t been renovated in 30 years”

So I think there’s more to it than just the office chairs which again, I’m not completely against but timing is poor.

some of their meeting rooms are quite dated to put it nicely...with furniture to match

[winson604]

Having said that, i don't actually like Herman Miller. I prefer Steelcase.

It's ok, you'll be happy to know at least that the COV standard for sit stand desks are Steelcase lol

[JqC]

Saw CoV and right away thought of Covid.
Come in here to find out we're talking about office chairs. :fuckthatshit:

[bobbinka]

My god, an awful lot of assumptions are being made just so people can hop on the bandwagon and shit on this :lol

It's COVID, ppl work from home - Do people who WFH not require equipment to work properly? Some organizations allow you to take home your chair while the situation plays out.

The rooms aren't being used - Well, it's part of the renovation... is it not possible the rooms are being renovated into something more useful?

The workers have job security - So people who have job security aren't entitled to proper work equipment?

Even if none of that matters, the math speaks for itself. suppose all they bought were chairs. $317k at $1k/chair is 317 chairs. after 10 years, you dispose of them for $400 per chair (third party businesses resell for $500-$800), that means you spent $190k over 10 years to equip the office.

Alternatively, you could go buy $200 chairs from staples for $63k and replace them every three years for a total of $190k over 10 years. Even if you only had to replace them once or twice, the difference would still be well worth it just to have reliable chairs with a solid warranty/support, and avoid multiple procurement processes. This doesn't even factor in the health and comfort of your staff.

[Hakkaboy]

The Mirra 2 office chairs they bought are quite reasonable for an office chair as those have a 12 year 24-7 warranty

The Eames plastic chairs though, that's a waste and definitely overpriced

[Teriyaki]

How many people just jelly about the new chairs the city is getting while they sit in their ripped and body fluid stained chairs that give them arthritis or something and now just overreacting just a smidge

[unit]

i'm not exactly outraged over this, but there's nothing wrong with a $100 chair for most people.. i had a staples mesh back chair and i used it for many hours playing WoW in my 20s for a few years straight... it didn't break and i used it for over 10 years. just to address some of the '$100 chairs break constantly and $1500 chairs never break' type of stuff people are saying in this thread.

[GLOW]

i kind of like the convo happening in this thread, posted this morning and already quite active being on page 2, bringing RS together :lol

[yray]

whens the old furniture sale gonna take place?

serious question

[The Producer]

herman miller - made in USA.

it would be a lot cooler if they were buying canadian manufactured equipment, but I don't know if that even exists.

in the perfect world every government contract would go to canadian manufacturers/suppliers. That's not money spent, that's taxpayer dollars being redistributed to the taxpayer.

[Hakkaboy]

herman miller - made in USA.

it would be a lot cooler if they were buying canadian manufactured equipment, but I don't know if that even exists.

in the perfect world every government contract would go to canadian manufacturers/suppliers. That's not money spent, that's taxpayer dollars being redistributed to the taxpayer.

They do have Canadian made seats that is highly rated for ~$500-$600 range

https://ergocentric.com/product-category/office-seating/

They use these in health care, but they obviously don't look as nice as a Herman Miller chair and probably ruin their "modern" decor

[Jmac]

i'm not exactly outraged over this, but there's nothing wrong with a $100 chair for most people.. i had a staples mesh back chair and i used it for many hours playing WoW in my 20s for a few years straight... it didn't break and i used it for over 10 years. just to address some of the '$100 chairs break constantly and $1500 chairs never break' type of stuff people are saying in this thread.
I also got some of the mesh chairs also about 10 years ago and they’re just starting to break down. I got them when they went on for 75% off and then another 10% staff discount, so I think I paid less than $70 for the pair.

They’ve held up well.

That said, if you can prevent even a couple of MSI injuries, you’ve more than made up the difference between cheap equipment and the expensive stuff. It would be interesting to see a cost-benefit analysis.

[Hehe]

I work for COV and my office was one of the first in the City to buy Herman Millar chairs, I can tell you that we've had them since 2009, they have been sat the shit out of for 11 years and we've only had 1 single chair break and zero others needing any type of maintenance at all. I've bought those "nice looking" staples chairs before and they just go to shits after a couple years and the ergonomics suck, how much is an injury worth?

Yeah, second this.

Office furnitures are supposed to take a beating, just like anything commercial or business stuff go.

I have a pretty expensive office chair at home... but I've had it for 10+ years and moved with me from West coast to East coast and back again... still going strong and honestly I think it would probably last another 10 easily. I work with my computer 6+hrs everyday... so, it's not like it sits empty (no pun intended)
And if one span out the cost of it for its life... I think they aren't expensive at all.

You buy cheap, you buy twice.

[mikemhg]

:lol this is a nothing story.

Of all the issues of corruption in this city, this would be the last problem I'd focus on here.

You literally have docks run by organized crime, money laundering through casinos and shell businesses, paid off judges, rampant real-estate fraud, and this is the item you would focus your outrage on?

Odd.

[StylinRed]

Wow so much to read.....

I'll just throw my 2cents in and shortened, I don't have a problem with the Herman Miller chairs, I expect our city/provincial gov't to be sitting in such chairs, what I don't like about this story is when they spent the money as they were crying about the budget due to covid

[cafe22]

Ironic how there were no media coverage or mass public outcry when CoV Council approved the funding appropriation.

[Sw0op]

The funding amount is fine but its more so how they make use of that money and with that said, thats a lot of money spent on chairs. I get the ergonomics on it and all but myself, my employer, and the companies I visited they dont use Herman Miller chairs. I've seen some companies use it but not as their go to chair for a large list of employees.

It's one thing for a public corporation using funds from their own profits for this its another thing for a private corporation using taxpayers funds for $1k/chair/person. I have a $250 Ikea Markus chair at home for 3+ years and its more than enough...wife even got one too...if I dont have one for myself at home/work I sure as heck dont want to be funding my "taxpayers money" so that someone at corporate office can use one

and then there's the timing of this....the optics of when this was done is horrible...people are losing their jobs, businesses are struggling, people are homeless but thats okay let the COV employees sit on their comfy asses while they ponder what to do (and likely not do much in the end except whine some more)

[twitchyzero]

trust me when i say i value ergonomics almost more than anything given my line of work and i'm no stranger to investing in well-built goods if they can last (kind of moot because my own purchases don't need taxypayer accountability)

but where do you draw the line? Should they upgrade their entire fleets to 80k Toyota Landcruisers like it's the fucking United Nations because they'll outlive the existing ones 5 to 1 for longevity? Can double or triple the upfront cost be justified because it offsets repair costs/downtime of less reliable vehicles? didn't 68style say he helped the police dept with managing the fleet so maybe he can chime in

and somehow i doubt the CoV purchasing team will bother with warranties so that's moot

and still i cant believe the purchase contract/restocking fee as a repeated counter-argument: sorry the jaw breaking debt from covid didn't happen suddenly; they had 6 months to cancel the order before taking delivery. You think all the airlines that put in Airbus/Boeing orders have to go *shrug* guess we'll take the three dozen new planes even if most are gonna be wfh/staycationing? then have the nads to ask for a bailout :lol i know my work sent a bunch of shit back for March orders that are no longer needed

i agree it's sensationalist article but i'd rather know than turn a blind eye- there needs to be some public accountability. I'm ear to hear more similar concerns and we can start a mismanagement thread :Popcorn

if you believe 300k is a drop in the bucket, and if this is only the tip of the iceberg in inefficiencies then a drop here, a spill there, it adds up fast

[Hondaracer]

:lol this is a nothing story.

Of all the issues of corruption in this city, this would be the last problem I'd focus on here.

You literally have docks run by organized crime, money laundering through casinos and shell businesses, paid off judges, rampant real-estate fraud, and this is the item you would focus your outrage on?

Odd.

The difference is, those bodies you are talking about are provincially and federally regulated.

[meme405]

I will say at 1am after not being able to work due to the whole Covid thing since April, I was probably a little more triggered than I should have been.

But I'm sorry I've been to offices downtown for places like the Wall center board rooms, top engineering and law firms in the city, bental center, etc. And rarely do I see those private companies sitting in steelcase or herman millers. In fact we rented one of the biggest board rooms in the city when we were conducting mediation, and even in that high end space which costed over $4k for 3 days, there wasn't herman miller chairs. So for someone to say a $1500 chair is the only way to prevent ergonomic injury is ludicrous. Our civilization has gotten so soft, when sitting in a chair results in a compo claim, my buddies who have lost fingers and limbs weep for you all.

I'm sorry, but something needs to happen with the mismanagement of finances at government levels. For every situation like this, there seems to be someone who can justify it, which is why it continues to happen. All it takes is for a few people to justify these types of spending, and it will continue to happen. Meanwhile our debt just continues to grow and our taxes are sky high. Something has to give, unfortunately for us, the collapse of the US will probably come long before our own demise, and it will just decimate our economy. then we will get some sort of reset and it will just happen again.

[bobbinka]

So for someone to say a $1500 chair is the only way to prevent ergonomic injury is ludicrous.

Nobody said that.

[shawnly1000]

Vancouver mayor ‘disappointed’ at purchase of high-end furniture for city hall, asks for review
(https://globalnews.ca/news/7342076/vancouver-mayor-disappointed-high-end-furniture-purchase/)

[bcrdukes]

I guess if these Herman Miller chairs were a bad idea, I guess the second floor of city call should just look this this:
https://d22ir9aoo7cbf6.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2017/08/Hong-Kong-restaurant-guide-The-best-cafes-and-restaurants-in-Yau-Ma-Tei-Kowloon-Tong-Tai-1024x693.jpg
Even with the cost of these chairs, people will complain.

[Hondaracer]

I think it speaks to your culture and hiring processes if you are getting injury claims from the $300-$500 chairs you have so you feel the need to buy $1500-$2000 chairs.

Also as posted above that they will eventually sell the used chairs. I highly doubt it. The city cannot track cash sales and there is no budget to receive that money into. Those chairs will go into storage until the building housing them is torn down as opposed to trying how to figure out how to sell them and intake the funds.

[twitchyzero]

this reminds me when i used to do fundraising and they had a handwriting machine for thank you cards

wait what

[bobbinka]

People needs to stop assuming things to justify arguments. We don't know the details of it.

I too can say I highly doubt they are going to keep all the hundreds of chairs they ever need to get rid of (past, present, and future) in storage until a building is torn down :facepalm: The carrying costs of doing that would be dumb.

There are companies that buy used office equipment in bulk from closing businesses (or for whatever reason) and then clean them up to sell. Is this what they're doing? I don't know, but it's not that far-fetched.

Is it also possible the contract they have in place also includes the seller (or a third party through the seller) taking the used equipment? Who knows.

[Ch28]

:lol this is a nothing story.

Of all the issues of corruption in this city, this would be the last problem I'd focus on here.

You literally have docks run by organized crime, money laundering through casinos and shell businesses, paid off judges, rampant real-estate fraud, and this is the item you would focus your outrage on?

Odd.

Media always goes after the low hanging fruit.

Apprently Vancouver's "mayor" threw his own staff under the bus and said that they need to have an audit of the expenses.

[mikemhg]

The difference is, those bodies you are talking about are provincially and federally regulated.

And? The city and provincial government work hand and hand with one another.

Don't you work for Telus?

Did you have any issues with the COV awarding a lucrative contract to complete their new IP telephony system and contact centre suite to the very company you work for, back in 2008?

I guarantee you Telus wasn't the the lowest bidder in the RFP. You should also know how inflated companies such as Telus bloat their contracts with city and provincial governments.

I don't see you quitting your company or complaining in outrage. This story is simply salacious, like I said, there are much bigger fish to fry if we're talking about corruption in this city and province.

[Obsideon]

I've brought food delivery from our restaurants to City Hall numerous times (apparently Kennedy loves our sushi?) and I was actually surprised how run down and old condition their pantry room and waiting area furniture is. Most of the chairs and tables actually look like they were from IKEA.
https://www.ikea.com/ca/en/images/products/adde-chair-white__0871875_PE716741_S5.JPG?f=s ... $16

[Hondaracer]

And? The city and provincial government work hand and hand with one another.

Don't you work for Telus?

Did you have any issues with the COV awarding a lucrative contract to complete their new IP telephony system and contact centre suite to the very company you work for, back in 2008?

I guarantee you Telus wasn't the the lowest bidder in the RFP. You should also know how inflated companies such as Telus bloat their contracts with city and provincial governments.

I don't see you quitting your company or complaining in outrage. This story is simply salacious, like I said, there are much bigger fish to fry if we're talking about corruption in this city and province.

If they aren’t the lowest bidder but are known for quality and are employing local people to do the work there are obviously trade offs in these types of situations.

Working for a company the only thing I’m paying them are my telecom bills. They manage that and that alone. I don’t pay them $5000+ a year plus all the residual costs to have shitty, contracted garbage and recycling services and homeless overflowing out of city parks, and all the services that have virtually fallen off a cliff under Stewart so people can sit in $2000 chairs.

I completely agree, this is small fries and it’s much ado about nothing. But stories like this hopefully wake up the tax payers of the city to pay a bit closer attention to the issues that actually DO matter and the tax dollars that DO have an impact on living in CoV.

As for the selling the used chairs, I’ve got a handful of stories from both the city works yard, as well as the VSB that shows very clearly how well they are equipped to sell off city assets.

[bobbinka]

I completely agree, this is small fries and it’s much ado about nothing. But stories like this hopefully wake up the tax payers of the city to pay a bit closer attention to the issues that actually DO matter and the tax dollars that DO have an impact on living in CoV.


I can respect that position.

[6793026]

Bad optics and bad timing, of course you can cancel your order.

So many construction projects, even ones that had the green light were cancelled or put on hold due to covid. I mean most of those were private companies so they actually have to use logic and a little bit of business awareness in their decision making.

If I was a Vancouver tax payer I would not have a problem with them spending money on furniture or the amount they spent but use a little common sense when you're crying you have no money don't be spending money on shit that you really can live without for a while until things are a little more normal.

Had a fight with my mom over this... cause i actually sold to municipality, so i had get her to understand what goes thru in the process.

Yes you CAN cancel the order, but risk paying an arm and a leg due to cancellation of a project. The jobs lost, storage feels, the shipping and the company that has to take it all back.

I can tell you it's BS. Now the company who WON the Request For Proposal has to fooking go on a legal battle to fight cause he's stuck with 300k of furniture in a storage facility which he doesn't have.


'well order went in well before the pandemic' is a cop out


For this type of spending, I can tell you:
9 months with finance to get budget
Another 6 months of estimations on only the QUANTITY needed.
Another 6 months posting for an RFP seeking for proposals.

Which EASILY, Staples, Grand & Toy, Toy'R Us, Herman Miller, Future Shop all must have sent in proposal to supply these.

Final 2 months on Pricing and Delivery and 1 month of presentation and demo on WHY one should buy Herman Miller versus cheap ass Staples chair.

I won a deal with a BC municipality (*hint hint over BILLION dollars in reserve funds) for $1.4 million dollars deal, it took 2.5 yrs to win (from budgeting to actual delivery) and we are talking on AGED & OLD & out of date (7+ yrs) mission critical infrastructure. I can only imagine what shitty ass chairs they had in their lunch rooms.

300k in furniture. I wonder how much they spend on paper towels within their entire CoV... 300k is a drop in bucket.

[meme405]

]
For this type of spending, I can tell you:
9 months with finance to get budget
Another 6 months of estimations on only the QUANTITY needed.
Another 6 months posting for an RFP seeking for proposals.

Which EASILY, Staples, Grand & Toy, Toy'R Us, Herman Miller, Future Shop all must have sent in proposal to supply these.

Final 2 months on Pricing and Delivery and 1 month of presentation and demo on WHY one should buy Herman Miller versus cheap ass Staples chair.

I won a deal with a BC municipality (*hint hint over BILLION dollars in reserve funds) for $1.4 million dollars deal, it took 2.5 yrs to win (from budgeting to actual delivery) and we are talking on AGED & OLD & out of date (7+ yrs) mission critical infrastructure. I can only imagine what shitty ass chairs they had in their lunch rooms.

300k in furniture. I wonder how much they spend on paper towels within their entire CoV... 300k is a drop in bucket.

I can't say for the CoV, but what I can say is that there are countless other government agencies which definitely do not do anything resembling this method. From BCHydro all the way to the city of BBY (and i know you are talking about the city of bby, and I believe they have gotten better recently after having their own problems ages ago), and upwards to some of the federal operations. They receive a budget, and have no mandate for 3 bids to a buy, or anything like that for many operational expenses. It depends on the source of the funds and the earmark on them. Approval also depends on the size of the contract, approval for something that's 10k vs 100k is usually different, as it should be.

Also if this is the case, then CoV should release the information. I remember the days that government tenders were open tenders, anyone could bid, and they would open the bid letters live and award contracts.

Not saying we need to go back to that, but public tenders should be mandated (even if they are closed). The information should be public, so that the real population funding the shit can see, this would cut corruption on construction, infrastructure and other projects heavily.

In fact this isnt even a government problem, this problem exists in strata councils as well. My strata council hired a plumbing contractor who is related with someone on the council, that's fucking bullshit to me, and it's some bullshit under the table company i've never heard of, and has done all sorts of questionable stuff.

Again my stance is very simillar to hondaracer, do I care necessarily about this one ridiculous bill? no. But what I do care is how these types of expenses continue to happen, just like those officials in victoria that got caught expensing stupid shit. We have a systemic problem with how elected officials are spending our money, and the process is not as transparent as it used to be, nor is it as transparent as it needs to be.

Apprently Vancouver's "mayor" threw his own staff under the bus and said that they need to have an audit of the expenses.

Kennedy is a piece of shit, no surprise there.

[twitchyzero]

the mayor response article said there were still orders in May, so lol

but starting the dialogue = throwing your staff under the bus apparently

[meme405]

the mayor response article said there were still orders in May, so lol

but starting the dialogue = throwing your staff under the bus apparently

The original article I posted also states the order was placed after covid hit:

Global News has confirmed that furniture was being ordered as late as May, 2020 — a month after Vancouver Mayor Stewart warned the city was facing a financial crisis, and pleaded for a bailout from senior levels of government.

And yet people keep saying "the order was probably placed long before covid, or they've had this planned forever.

No sorry, they haven't. your all just sheep, and hoping that these people are smarter than they are. Hint: they aren't.

As stated in the wolf of wall street:

Mark Hanna : The name of the game, moving the money from the client's pocket to your pocket.

Jordan Belfort : But if you can make your clients money at the same time it's advantageous to everyone, correct?

Mark Hanna : No.

EDIT: just for posterity sake, my office building actually sent an email out stating they have postponed yearly maintenance (which usually happens around now), indefinitely, they wont be power washing the building, they wont be doing any upgrades, etc. Because they aren't making money right now, and they need to play it close to the chest. That's what responsible business are doing. I've heard it from so many commercial building owners, and companies.

[bcrdukes]

Thank you for discrediting everyone who didn't agree with you in this thread.

[6793026]

the mayor response article said there were still orders in May, so lol

I'm sure there are orders daily, because the company who supplied these furniture probably won as a VOD (Vendor of Record), so from office chairs to an eraser... they are ordering thru this one company.


There are some contracts due to specific technical existing hardware eg// Cisco phones, SAP, ORACLE etc... they won't do an RFP for the sack of maintenance contracts. They would take forever, but for purchases that are switching things up from one vendor to another.. a fair RFP process SHOULD be in place.

Wishful thinking of course.

[smoothie.]

300k and some people lose it.

You have nooooooo idea lol.

[bobbinka]

do I care necessarily about this one ridiculous bill? no.

That's certainly not what your first post sounded like.

[AzNightmare]

I used to sit in the office all day in a Herman Miller, then go home and spend another 5-6 hours on my $70 office chair. Never really noticed a difference. I enjoy sitting on both... lol. It's weird, but I guess if my ass and back is happy, then my wallet is too.

[meme405]

300k and some people lose it.

You have nooooooo idea lol.

Yeah I do, which is why it's disappointing to see people jump to the defense of this kind of spending time after time.

Inevitable when something like 25% of the population is public workers, so they directly benefit from when the government mismanages money to their benefit.

That's certainly not what your first post sounded like.

I dont live in Vancouver proper, so yeah, idgaf, if people in vancouver think this is good for their money, then props to them, they will have the most ergonomic city workers in the world.

I guess I am just sitting here waiting to see at what point will the tax paying population revolt? Like right now the average canadian pays like 45% of what they earn in a year to taxes. This includes income tax, PST/GST, all the other fees and taxes and stuff you pay throughout the year. We pay this much and yet after all that we have huge debt at all three levels of government, and run a deficit year after year. We all know money isn't free, and at some point we need to probably try and climb back to zero atleast. So the government will continue to up that amount, so at what point does this whole system collapse? Are you all comfortable paying 55 or 60 percent of what you make/spend in a year to the government?

Lets say we all banded together as canadians and said we need to fix this, and agreed to pay 60% taxes to get out of debt. If we made that sacrifice and then the government made the same kind of spending we are seeing today at that time, how would you feel? would you feel it is still justified for them to sit at $1500 chairs?

Therein lies the truth, most economists dont believe we could ever pay back our debt, the general consensus is that at ~52.5% taxation we would tank our economy. Fortunately for us in Canada, the consensus is that this is likely to happen in the US first. Unfortunately for us, it won't make a difference we will all still be crippled by the collapse of money as we know it. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I dont wear a tinfoil hat, I dont believe the world is flat, or that global warming is a hoax. But overwhelming debt bringing the worlds financial system to ruin, is something I could conceivably see happening in my generation.

So I'm not being a keyboard warrior, or an asshat right now when I say: My heart genuinely aches for our future. I dont see a way out of this, and I'm not certain how much longer we will continue to push this problem out.

And that's the most sincere thing I will probably ever write on here, and you can fail it if you want, but I write the above in order to maybe bring some awareness to my own generation, and I welcome actual intelligent conversation on this topic. If people want to move it out of this cluttered up disaster of the thread we can do that.

[winson604]

While the spend doesn't bother me and yes there are definitely times money either appears to be mismanaged there are equal and likely greater instances where it's the opposite. For every department with Herman Miller and fancy sit stands there's a department with furniture still from like the 80's or 90s. Any staff event, that shits coming out of your own pocket, COV branded pen? Some departments get wet just realizing it exists in some areas. These are just very small examples but trust me, while it seems like they throw money around be it warranted or not they are also very stingy. I guess it balances out then?

[radioman]

Since we're on the subject of chairs, this is anecdotal but I purchased my first ever $1200-1500 ergo chair in feb/march and haven't had any back issues since.

I worked over 7 years with a few different chairs my old work would muster the dough for and they caused a lot of discomfort and back pain. I would go to get adjusted/massage every few months but I haven't even thought about needing to do it since I got the new chair.

In conclusion I'd say I've already saved a few hundred in ins plan costs and personal costs.

[quasi]

Had a fight with my mom over this... cause i actually sold to municipality, so i had get her to understand what goes thru in the process.

Yes you CAN cancel the order, but risk paying an arm and a leg due to cancellation of a project. The jobs lost, storage feels, the shipping and the company that has to take it all back.

I can tell you it's BS. Now the company who WON the Request For Proposal has to fooking go on a legal battle to fight cause he's stuck with 300k of furniture in a storage facility which he doesn't have.



For this type of spending, I can tell you:
9 months with finance to get budget
Another 6 months of estimations on only the QUANTITY needed.
Another 6 months posting for an RFP seeking for proposals.

Which EASILY, Staples, Grand & Toy, Toy'R Us, Herman Miller, Future Shop all must have sent in proposal to supply these.

Final 2 months on Pricing and Delivery and 1 month of presentation and demo on WHY one should buy Herman Miller versus cheap ass Staples chair.

I won a deal with a BC municipality (*hint hint over BILLION dollars in reserve funds) for $1.4 million dollars deal, it took 2.5 yrs to win (from budgeting to actual delivery) and we are talking on AGED & OLD & out of date (7+ yrs) mission critical infrastructure. I can only imagine what shitty ass chairs they had in their lunch rooms.

300k in furniture. I wonder how much they spend on paper towels within their entire CoV... 300k is a drop in bucket.

I understand the bidding process that is what I do I probably put out 300-400 million in bids a year of as small as 10K and as much as 80m depending on the project. It comes down to the golden rule, them with the gold make the rules.

I feel you on how long shit takes sometimes, RCH Phase 1 that was design build and I started working in partnership with the general contractor back in 2014, we weren't awarded the project until 2017 and finally got out of there earlier this year.

[mikemhg]

I'm less interested in the 300K on the furniture, heck as someone else said, if you knew how much is spent on cleaning supplies and coffee on an annual basis, your head would spin.

What's more interesting is watching Kennedy Stewart throw his council under the bus. I find that hilarious, my god he's such a garbage mayor, literally no leadership or accountability on his end.

[The Producer]

your all just sheep

you know the people that spout this cliche are the actual sheep right? :rukidding:

[6793026]

I'm less interested in the 300K on the furniture, heck as someone else said, if you knew how much is spent on cleaning supplies and coffee on an annual basis, your head would spin.

Exactly....
I bet they (CoV) spend more than what I make a yr just on cream / milk / 1% for their coffee.

Try to cut coffee "since it's COVID, staff can afford Mcdonal's $1 coffee right??"

Our company try to cut coffee from the lunch room to cut cost.. HOLY FUCK, mgmt had to apologize after a day ahhahaaha

[winson604]

Exactly....
I bet they (CoV) spend more than what I make a yr just on cream / milk / 1% for their coffee.

Try to cut coffee "since it's COVID, staff can afford Mcdonal's $1 coffee right??"

Our company try to cut coffee from the lunch room to cut cost.. HOLY FUCK, mgmt had to apologize after a day ahhahaaha

Where's my money lol. We actually have to buy our own cream and coffee etc. Each department usually has a coffee club and you have to pay for all your own shit, it's one of the lines they draw in the sand saying we can't spend tax payers money on this stuff.

[Hondaracer]

Exactly....
I bet they (CoV) spend more than what I make a yr just on cream / milk / 1% for their coffee.

Try to cut coffee "since it's COVID, staff can afford Mcdonal's $1 coffee right??"

Our company try to cut coffee from the lunch room to cut cost.. HOLY FUCK, mgmt had to apologize after a day ahhahaaha

My dad works for Travelers, one of the worlds biggest insurance companies with a market cap of 29 Billion..they cut water/coffee service for an office of 50 ppl.. :rukidding:

Frankly, this attitude that “it’s only 300k” or that “you should see how much money is wasted on X” is pretty disconcerning.. we’re not setting a very high bar for public office.

[AzNightmare]

Do they get free coffee at work?
I have several friends who work for the city and they all mentioned they didn't get coffee so they have to BYO.

One time I had an interview and all 3 interviewers came in with their own cups of coffee from different coffee shops, lol...

[68style]

You don't even get a fuckin Christmas party in public... go to white spot and pay for lunch if you're lucky.

Bonuses? Haha... yah if you're a director maybe.

Such a gravy train, where does it all stop... love all these people who talk from outside of places like they know what's up on the inside because they heard a story once or their uncle's son's friend said so.

[winson604]

Do they get free coffee at work?
I have several friends who work for the city and they all mentioned they didn't get coffee so they have to BYO.

One time I had an interview and all 3 interviewers came in with their own cups of coffee from different coffee shops, lol...

Again at COV we draw a hard line on this stuff. I have yet to hear of any department who has free coffee just coffee clubs. Some departments even have water clubs!

[twitchyzero]

300k and some people lose it.

You have nooooooo idea lol.

then tell us

[smoothie.]

then tell us


https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/57796649.jpg

[Jmac]

You don't even get a fuckin Christmas party in public... go to white spot and pay for lunch if you're lucky.

Bonuses? Haha... yah if you're a director maybe.

Such a gravy train, where does it all stop... love all these people who talk from outside of places like they know what's up on the inside because they heard a story once or their uncle's son's friend said so.
The closest we get at the hospital is a sponsored BBQ from Save-On Foods in the summer (not this year because of COVID), which obviously isn’t paid for by the employer.

[hud 91gt]

You don't even get a fuckin Christmas party in public... go to white spot and pay for lunch if you're lucky.

Bonuses? Haha... yah if you're a director maybe.

Such a gravy train, where does it all stop... love all these people who talk from outside of places like they know what's up on the inside because they heard a story once or their uncle's son's friend said so.

I think it was you earlier who got a little spun up in regards to my comment on city workers being lazy, winey and entitled. That was a blanket statement, and with every blanket statement there is going to be a lot wrong with it.

My wife is a city employee. She works her ass off everyday.... so much that I’m concerned for her health. Why? Due to complete incompetence and laziness of her coworkers. From the ground to middle management (and sometimes higher). Useless supervisors in most roles who start from the bottom in a union environment who believe that is just the way it is. Yes, there are some amazing people in some great positions. But not everyone works that way. In fact it seems to be the minority. As per the blanket statement.

[Hondaracer]

Coming from working in an intense, timeline driven private sector job to a unionized work environment, I will say that if you come to work on time every day and don’t complain, you’re already in the top quarter of employees. Pretty pathetic imo. That’s not to say city employees etc. Are all in the same boat but I’m sure it’s all the same shit in terms of bloated middle management etc.

Very ineffective way to run any business and in my experience the union does exactly what everyone has the stereotypical view of a union doing. Protecting the cancerous employees who are poison for an organization while doing shit all for the good ones.

[meme405]

Obviously there is exceptional employees. I've even hired some in the past. They leave public jobs after a decade or more of service, and mentioning they just couldn't take it anymore.

And im sure many more stick around, unfortunately the general consensus is that these employees aren't in the majority. That may be wrong, it may be right.

The concerning part to me is how nobody seems to be into correcting the perception, there are many ways private companies maintain transparency to stakeholders; this assures investors that the company is operating efficiently and correctly. IMO the government should be totally transparent, unfortunately they are not and that's the problem.

[westopher]

Media always goes after the low hanging fruit.

Apprently Vancouver's "mayor" threw his own staff under the bus and said that they need to have an audit of the expenses.
They should play this song before Kennedy Stewart walks into any press conference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Fsm8Vp1MzI

[Doubl3_H]

Coming from working in an intense, timeline driven private sector job to a unionized work environment, I will say that if you come to work on time every day and don’t complain, you’re already in the top quarter of employees. Pretty pathetic imo. That’s not to say city employees etc. Are all in the same boat but I’m sure it’s all the same shit in terms of bloated middle management etc.

Very ineffective way to run any business and in my experience the union does exactly what everyone has the stereotypical view of a union doing. Protecting the cancerous employees who are poison for an organization while doing shit all for the good ones.

Majority of the cancerous, lazy, inept employees that are posion to the company are the ones involved in the union. I am sure you have heard of people pulling the seniority card whether to get days off first or when it comes to first dips overtime shifts.

In a way I can see the benefits of an union, but in some situations I wish companies and organizations would just ball up and tell the goons to take a hike or straight up clean house.

[Ronin]

$1500 for Mirras? Man, they got ripped off. Is being stupid a requirement when you work for city council? They need to hire more frugal ass people that can drive a bargain.

However, if they only paid $400 and those are legit Eames Shell Chairs, then that's a good deal. They going brand names only.

But then what's with the weird mix of futuristic ergonomics and mid-century modern? It's like someone just googled "How do I spend a lot of money on office furniture?"

[prudz]

OP would rather live in a dictatorship because some politicians buy furniture, like lmaoooo what the fuck am I actually reading?

[tiger_handheld]

i once sat on a HM Mira.... my ass never felt the same after.

I miss that chair.

[68style]

The concerning part to me is how nobody seems to be into correcting the perception, there are many ways private companies maintain transparency to stakeholders; this assures investors that the company is operating efficiently and correctly. IMO the government should be totally transparent, unfortunately they are not and that's the problem.

Where are you even getting these nonsense ideas from?

Can you go to the public library and request ATIP or FOI on any single thing from Microsoft? Or EA? Or Deloitte or literally any private company? Transparency for corporate companies? The same ones polluting in USA and fighting in court to cut losses or paying people off to avoid bad press or cutting employees wages or rewarding CEO’s with golden parachutes and back room stock trades? Insider trading? There’s been like... “just a few” television shows and movies based entirely on the idea of how corrupt private corporations are lol!

You can go right now and request information as a member of the public on this furniture purchase or literally anything the city or province or federal government or even the RCMP has done... you’ll get an answer... some of it like RCMP might be redacted for Protected B reasons but you’ll get whatever you ask for. It’s required by law. Tell me anything besides Saran Wrap or the windows on your own house that’s more transparent than that.

Then try sending a request to Tim Cook asking them to provide you Apple’s purchase history for office furniture totals the last 6 months of fiscal 2019 Because you want to make sure they were being efficient with your investment dollars for the stocks you own. I’m sure they’ll respond eventually if you’re really patient.......... for the sake of transparency......

[AzNightmare]

I've been taking a serious look at making the jump to public sector. I actually had a 2nd interview lined up and it was looking pretty good but then the pandemic shut everything down before it happened. Hiring has been postponed indefinitely.

There are several things I'm not a fan of, such as hours aren't as flex, if at all... Seniority trumps everything, free coffee doesn't exist (and I'm a coffee addict), any extracurricular events are coming out of your own pocket or it doesn't happen, etc.

But at the same time, having a comfy 9-5 with good benefits, and job security sounds very appealing at this stage in my life... considering I've had a bunch of bad luck over the course of my career with layoffs, company folding, ceo stepping down and departments being cut, etc. etc. Too much bullshit.

[twitchyzero]

investments are of your choosing
taxes not so much

[Y2K_o__o]

I've been taking a serious look at making the jump to public sector. I actually had a 2nd interview lined up and it was looking pretty good but then the pandemic shut everything down before it happened. Hiring has been postponed indefinitely.

There are several things I'm not a fan of, such as hours aren't as flex, if at all... Seniority trumps everything, free coffee doesn't exist (and I'm a coffee addict), any extracurricular events are coming out of your own pocket or it doesn't happen, etc.

But at the same time, having a comfy 9-5 with good benefits, and job security sounds very appealing at this stage in my life... considering I've had a bunch of bad luck over the course of my career with layoffs, company folding, ceo stepping down and departments being cut, etc. etc. Too much bullshit.

Public sector is not a bad choice if you know that all you want is stability, especially for those who has family, but don't expect to get paid 6 figures, bonus, stock options and etc...

also senority is a cancer that drives your morale down really quick.....

[68style]

Not sure about CoV, but you can jump around or move up quite easily if you're smart about things in the fed system... I know lots of people who made Director or things like that by like mid-30's...

Same as police, you can stay a Cst your whole life and bitch about how you never get a chance (hint: it's probably actually your skillset) or you see guys who are Inspectors at 40...

Same as corporate world too... you're either a ladder climber or you're not.

At all of them, you can somewhat grease the rails by WHO you know and getting the in on things... but I'd say that doesn't work as well for fed system there's a lot of hoops have to be jumped through and all selection panels are just that --> panels like 3+ people... unsure of municipal I haven't worked in it... and private, well, shit, definitely did my time in that world too and you either get super rewarded for doing well and recognized for it......... or some dick steals credit for your work and holds you down. I've seen some pretty terrible people in management in both sides of the working world.

Main problem with the fed side of public sector is you have to go to Ottawa for real action... and speak French... their postings are like 100x the ones in BC or all of western Canada.

For me I'm past the point I want to climb up anymore or manage people, cuz there are a lot of idiots or lazy shits around and when you can't fire them it's very frustrating to deal with as a manager. I just focus on customer / client service and being as efficient as possible and being accountable to the people I deal with every day. Probably leave and find something else after a certain number of years because, like any workplace, it gets stale and you hate the atmosphere after awhile.

[68style]

I've been taking a serious look at making the jump to public sector. I actually had a 2nd interview lined up and it was looking pretty good but then the pandemic shut everything down before it happened. Hiring has been postponed indefinitely.

There are several things I'm not a fan of, such as hours aren't as flex, if at all... Seniority trumps everything, free coffee doesn't exist (and I'm a coffee addict), any extracurricular events are coming out of your own pocket or it doesn't happen, etc.

But at the same time, having a comfy 9-5 with good benefits, and job security sounds very appealing at this stage in my life... considering I've had a bunch of bad luck over the course of my career with layoffs, company folding, ceo stepping down and departments being cut, etc. etc. Too much bullshit.

Be careful where you go, when the tab comes in for the shit economy from COVID and CERB has to be paid for... I wouldn't be surprised to see another DRAP initiative come into fed side with people getting cut left and right.

Public isn't always as safe as you'd think... certain departments fall out of favour with certain parties (think Coast Guard and the Cons... they let it go to shambles... but they're a darling of Trudeau's for example) so things can still pucker your asshole.

[Eff-1]

Here's been my limited experience in public sector (provincial).

When working in management in a non-unionized office, the entire team actually gets taken care of pretty decently. Wages, social events, small tokens of appreciation, it's not bad at all. Still a level of bureaucracy that exists in any government, but nothing you shouldn't anticipate.

When working in management in a unionized office, it was much, much harder to do anything. No extra small perks, the union makes everything just SO much more difficult to do, like even the simplest things (like organize a xmas party). Way more office politics, bureaucracy and complexity.

[quasi]

Lol private company they buy the coffee but I supply my own cream. I mean to be fair if I cared I could expense the cream but it's like $2-3 a week....

Funny story about the coffee maker and bureaucracy even in smaller private companies, the one we had went so needed a new machine we just a Kuerig. So I go and buy a new one and expense it, no problem send copy of receipt to out head office. They call me and are like we need the original receipt to reimburse, I'm like you want me to send the receipt 400kms away what if it breaks? There like it's the policy, ok you got it.

Not even 1 month later problem with machine and as a fuck you to that stupid policy I threw the newer machine in the garbage and I went out and bought another more expensive machine and expenced that as well. I mean I guess I could have requested them to send me the receipt back so I could exchange but fuck that, would have meant a few days without my coffee.

[meme405]

Where are you even getting these nonsense ideas from?

Can you go to the public library and request ATIP or FOI on any single thing from Microsoft? Or EA? Or Deloitte or literally any private company? Transparency for corporate companies? The same ones polluting in USA and fighting in court to cut losses or paying people off to avoid bad press or cutting employees wages or rewarding CEO’s with golden parachutes and back room stock trades? Insider trading? There’s been like... “just a few” television shows and movies based entirely on the idea of how corrupt private corporations are lol!

You can go right now and request information as a member of the public on this furniture purchase or literally anything the city or province or federal government or even the RCMP has done... you’ll get an answer... some of it like RCMP might be redacted for Protected B reasons but you’ll get whatever you ask for. It’s required by law. Tell me anything besides Saran Wrap or the windows on your own house that’s more transparent than that.

Then try sending a request to Tim Cook asking them to provide you Apple’s purchase history for office furniture totals the last 6 months of fiscal 2019 Because you want to make sure they were being efficient with your investment dollars for the stocks you own. I’m sure they’ll respond eventually if you’re really patient.......... for the sake of transparency......

No, unfortunately the information in most FOI requests results in nothing useful, and it has nothing to do with what you request, but more the system used for the information.

In this particular example, I would like to see the other quotes received for the furniture and how they selected herman miller to provide all this furniture. But unfortunately stuff like that isn't available as an FOI request, as they claim to have no way to assemble information of this type.

I've been down this path before, not with the COV but with our provincial government over the awards of certain construction projects, to the point at which my own lawyers were involved, and after two years it resulted in nothing useful, and we all gave up and moved on because the project was underway and nothing would change that outcome. But needless to say we never got the information requested on the other contractors and the criteria used to select the successful bidder.

Also I am not saying private companies make their information public (although if it is a traded company a lot is available). I am saying there are people in place who have billions invested, and make sure the company is operating properly. The public sector doesn't have anyone invested beyond the fear of losing their job or not getting elected again. That's not the same type of fear as losing literally millions or billions of dollars.

Like I said earlier, go back to a more open tender system. A simple website with what the government is looking to do almost like a job board, it could include everything from supplying furniture all the way to building the Patullo Bridge. Companies submit bids and proposals. Once they tender period closes the government publishes how many proposals they got, basic information on each (doesnt have to be the full proposal or even include the real company name), and announces the successful company for that money spend.

And before anyone goes stupid, I'm not saying if the CoV needs to buy a new microwave they go through this process, but I mean simple criteria like expenses over 100k or something like that would result in a big shift already. and before anyone says that type of process would slow down government and their ability to react, no it should not, this is exactly how countless companies in the private sector treat any purchase order above $100k, 3 bids to a buy. They get at minimum 3 quotes, and evaluate them, evaluate them can be as simple as: this one is 10% cheaper, and it only has a lead time a few days longer than the more expensive options, we can wait a few extra days and save the 10%. Proceed with the purchase.

Before the age of computers this is actually exactly how public tenders worked, government would announce a project, sometimes they would have preselected bidders by doing what is called a prequalification. Other times they would leave it completely open (so that they could get quotes from new companies they may not have considered). They would set a tender close date, and on that date all companies had to have their bids turned in, in person. They would then live, open all the bids, look at the price and announce the lowest bidder. All else considered the lowest bidder won the bid. There was obviously times when after the due diligence period the winner would change, because their bid didn't conform for some reason, or another bidder had less clarifications included, etc.

Anyway, I'm sure ive given enough in the above, that someone here can grab half a sentence out of something from the above, and make fun of me for some internet thanks.

EDIT: I should Clarify one thing that I feel may come up, BC Bid. BC Bid is a great tool, and it's implementation is fantastic. However there is some problems. Namely certain chapters in their procurement policy which allow items with certain restrictions to bypass the system, and utilizing some of those there are stuff which fly right under the radar. Usually not a big deal, but the abuse has seemingly become worse as the system ages. as a primary example: guess what furniture purchase did not go through BC bid... lol

[quasi]

EDIT: I should Clarify one thing that I feel may come up, BC Bid. BC Bid is a great tool, and it's implementation is fantastic. However there is some problems. Namely certain chapters in their procurement policy which allow items with certain restrictions to bypass the system, and utilizing some of those there are stuff which fly right under the radar. Usually not a big deal, but the abuse has seemingly become worse as the system ages. as a primary example: guess what furniture purchase did not go through BC bid... lol

IMO the best jobs on BC bid are the bid depository ones, it's tough for any games to be played.

The company I work for has successfully sued for loss of profit in the past when a GC played games after close and didn't use us after submitting the low bid, it's great make all your money with zero risk.