[iwantaskyline]

https://www.citynews1130.com/2021/05/27/remains-of-215-children-found-at-former-residential-school-in-british-columbia/

Thought this deserved its own thread. Remains of 215 indigenous children found at the site of an old residential school. A reminder of Canada's genocide.

[mk1freak]

Saw this while at work, fucking sick what was done in the past.

[CRS]

I am so disheartened by this. I heard it on the radio this morning and am sick to my stomach that this took place.

It is an absolute tragedy that is only glossed over in our history books. I think it's time we call what the Indian Act did as a systematic genocide of the indigenous population.

[Hondaracer]

So every article I’ve read on this doesn’t seem to be very alarmed by it?

So I’m assuming there were assumptions or knowledge of this previously and it’s only arisen again because of the scans? Or am I wrong? Because even some of the people interviewed directly involved seem to have this attitude of it being known before this?

[CRS]

So every article I’ve read on this doesn’t seem to be very alarmed by it?

So I’m assuming there were assumptions or knowledge of this previously and it’s only arisen again because of the scans? Or am I wrong? Because even some of the people interviewed directly involved seem to have this attitude of it being known before this?

Correct. The scans confirmed what was long suspected.

[inv4zn]

So every article I’ve read on this doesn’t seem to be very alarmed by it?

So I’m assuming there were assumptions or knowledge of this previously and it’s only arisen again because of the scans? Or am I wrong? Because even some of the people interviewed directly involved seem to have this attitude of it being known before this?

Articles are supposed to be unbiased - other than op-ed's if someone wrote an article to the tone of what everone is (and should be) feeling, that would unfortunately be poor journalism.

And from what I've read, everyone that lived around these schools or were relatives of victims, all knew about it. It's just making the news now, because well, it made the news.

There was a post on reddit about how one site of a residential school (maybe even this one, not sure) couldn't be remediated for a long time because no excavating company would go near it. They'd find bodies of children everywhere they dug, and would all nope the fuck out. Even for this one, they used GPR instead of actually digging.

Sickening.

[Hondaracer]

I don’t blame them who wants to dig up skeletons of children..

Should be like an archeology team not an excavation contractor

[Manic!]

So who here supported Senator Lynn Beyak? This is just one school of many.

https://scontent.fyvr3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/26166085_10155032798456561_5495303772634915433_n.j pg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Fc0PA04C-8wAX-qdQUF&_nc_ht=scontent.fyvr3-1.fna&oh=126ae438ee1bb391e943c8a8038fc8bd&oe=60D60205

[inv4zn]

So who here supported Senator Lynn Beyak? This is just one school of many.

https://scontent.fyvr3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/26166085_10155032798456561_5495303772634915433_n.j pg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Fc0PA04C-8wAX-qdQUF&_nc_ht=scontent.fyvr3-1.fna&oh=126ae438ee1bb391e943c8a8038fc8bd&oe=60D60205

Why would you use some crudely drawn image as any official source of news.

At least link a proper fucking article.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3943954/canadian-senator-lynn-beyak-indigenous-comments-senate-website/

That said, read the article - she's far worse than whatever your meme portrays her to be. She's like an older grosser Canadian MTG.

[donk.]

"proper article"

Because articles are written by trustworthy independent media companies that noone individually cross checks

:facepalm:

[mr00jimbo]

It's terrifying to know how recently these places were operational, too. Last one closed in 1996!

[Manic!]

Why would you use some crudely drawn image as any official source of news.

At least link a proper fucking article.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3943954/canadian-senator-lynn-beyak-indigenous-comments-senate-website/

That said, read the article - she's far worse than whatever your meme portrays her to be. She's like an older grosser Canadian MTG.

Most people should know how big of a piece of shit she is. This was just meant to be a reminder.

Another great harper appointee.

[inv4zn]

"proper article"

Because articles are written by trustworthy independent media companies that noone individually cross checks

:facepalm:

Uh, yeah, "proper article". Your dissemination of 'fake news' aside, published articles vs a meme...:rukidding:

https://i.ibb.co/0GyqC2x/26166085-10155032798456561-5495303772634915433-n3.jpg

[whitev70r]

^ not to inflame, but both can be true. That yes, on the one hand, atrocities were committed, 215 or more children killed and it is beyond sickening. On the other, it is very possible that some Indigenous people had a positive experience in residential school systems, I've met a few. Safe to say that the overwhelming number of stories are negative.

[Manic!]

^ not to inflame, but both can be true. That yes, on the one hand, atrocities were committed, 215 or more children killed and it is beyond sickening. On the other, it is very possible that some Indigenous people had a positive experience in residential school systems, I've met a few. Safe to say that the overwhelming number of stories are negative.

They where taken away from there families. I don't know how anyone could call that a good time.

[underscore]

Law of averages means I would assume at least one kid was removed from an even more abusive home? But that's gonna be a tiny number and a complete fluke. Same deal that presumably a couple of the people working at them weren't completely horrible but that doesn't negate all the others who were just awful.

I'm also assuming at least some of these deaths were due to the childhood mortality rate of the day, but again that's probably gonna be a small number and even then their odds weren't gonna be helped by the circumstances.

[68style]

They where taken away from there families. I don't know how anyone could call that a good time.

Depends how shitty your family is. I have at least 1 friend I can think of who’s indigenous that I honestly can’t believe is alive today hearing his growing up stories, literally still exists despite his “family” basically doing everything possible to ensure he never made it.

That said, even he never said he wished he went to a residential school... ugh

[punkwax]

https://media.makeameme.org/created/religion.jpg

Edit: my older brother went to Catholic school in the early 80’s and my mom said his teacher took the yard stick to him as punishment for something he did.. I can assure you whatever he did was likely minimal as he is the opposite of a bad seed. He was 5 or 6 years old in Kindergarten. She was raised Catholic but immediately recognized that it was inappropriate and pulled him out to attend public school.

For some fucked up reason adults using physical force on children was acceptable, or frighteningly perhaps encouraged, back then by the church to impose their will and keep followers in check.

That one incident shielded me from the institution and I’m very thankful for that. I’ve been an atheist since the day I decided on my own as a youngster that I trust science and evolution theory over some mythical story about greater powers.

My bro lurks RS and rarely posts. If you read this, thanks for whatever you did. Bullet dodged!

[Hondaracer]

The Catholic Church is legit the most evil organization the world has ever known. It’s not even close.

[whitev70r]

C'mon ... back in that generation, I got whipped by the feather duster for doing diddly .. physical punishment was not an exclusive domain of the Catholic religion. Although I didn't lay a hand on my kids, I appreciate my parents and never held 'beatings' as a grudge against them.

[Hondaracer]

Yea but their frequent and relentless molestation and exploitation of minors over literal centuries is kind of a black Mark..

I’d venture to say anyone at virtually any important level whether it be here in Vancouver or in butfuck Uganda can be tied to the abuse of children.

I’ve never been a tiny bit religious, never raised that way never once went to church. The only time I’ve been inside are for weddings, funerals, and tourism. My wife’s family was raised catholic but my wife who is well educated had shortly come to her senses. They have a priest that’s kind of a family friend type. Part of a bunch of their baptisms etc. Known them forever. The guy drives like a brand new X5 lives in West Van. I’m not sayin, but I’m sayin.

Honestly I’ve never really taken much into aboriginal affairs as I try to avoid it but this story is pretty fucking terrible

[punkwax]

C'mon ... back in that generation, I got whipped by the feather duster for doing diddly .. physical punishment was not an exclusive domain of the Catholic religion. Although I didn't lay a hand on my kids, I appreciate my parents and never held 'beatings' as a grudge against them.

So it was your parents with the feather duster and not a teacher, am I reading that right?

If so, you simply can’t compare the two situations. I scold my kids when they push limits too far. If I saw another adult do the same, I’d defend the shit out of them unless they were blatantly in the wrong. Even then, I’d tell the adult it’s not their place and let me handle it.

Your comparison is apples and pickles if I read that right.

[whitev70r]

Back in HK, in that gen, I'm sure students got the ruler. Piano teachers whacked students hands ... again, not defending this type of discipline, nor am I defending Catholic church ... just sayin it was a lot more common and part of the way of handling children in the 70's, 80's ... and certainly in the 40's, 50's and 60's. It wasn't only the Catholic church that did it. You can rightly sh*t on the Catholic church for a LOT of things like molestation, sexual assault, cover ups, reassigning guilty priests to other parishes, homosexual priests molesting boys, etc. But to pin corporal punishment on Catholic church, well, it wasn't jus them ..., there are a lot worst things that the RC church did.

[supafamous]

It's terrifying to know how recently these places were operational, too. Last one closed in 1996!

Among the many fucked up things about residential schools is that they were still running in the 90s. The FUCKING 90s!!!!! At least American abolished slavery a century ago (their greatest sin) while our greatest sin was still alive when I became an adult. It's just bonkers.

Also, how are there not people in prison for this? This was not just a case of schools being tough or gov't support - much of what happened was/is a crime. Sexual and physical abuse, murder, etc. Many of the people who ran these schools are still alive - how is it that they walk free?

[supafamous]

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/newly-discovered-b-c-graves-a-grim-reminder-of-the-heartbreaking-death-toll-of-residential-schools

The commission ultimately determined that at least 3,200 children died while a student at a Residential School; one in every 50 students enrolled during the program’s nearly 120-year existence. That’s a death rate comparable to the number of Canadian POWs who died in the custody of Nazi Germany during the Second World War.

That is some kind of fucked up.

[Bouncing Bettys]

The residential school in Kamloops is owned and occupied by the Kamloops Indian Band. I had wondered why they never tore it down instead. Growing up in Kamloops, I remember taking a grade 4 field trip to the school, as parts of it were used as a museum of native culture. I remember the canoe interested me the most. I don't recall any lessons on the horrible history of the school. Those discussions could have happened, I U I just don't recall.

In 2010-2011, I was attending courses at TRU with a man in his 50s who was in residential schools growing up. He had lost the hearing in one of his ears from being smacked in the head too many times.

My first time really learning anything about residential schools was when the tv movie Where The Spirit Lives aired in 1989 on cbc. I think my parents had me watch in it part, because my Grandma (not native) endured similar harsh treatment and beatings at the hands of Catholic nuns/priests when placed in a boarding school at 8 years old (around 1920), after her mother died. She never got over that.


Some years ago I skimmed through our family bible (kind of like a bible but with family letters, articles, pictures added) and saw someone in our family had once been placed in a "Home for Wayward Girls and Women" run by nuns back in Ireland. To be a single mother was a big no no back then. My mother and I laughed at the language used in the letter describing the home and it's purpose, but the realities were much worse. Not long after some horrible news broke about the discovery of a mass grave at one of these very places.

Almost 800 'forgotten' Irish children dumped in septic tank mass grave at Catholic home

A septic tank was used to dump the bodies of almost 800 babies and children in Ireland near a home for unmarried mothers run by nuns, new research has shown, throwing more light on the Irish Catholic Church's troubled past.

Death records suggest 796 children, from newborns to eight-year-olds, were dumped in a septic tank near a Catholic-run home for unmarried mothers, turning it into in a mass grave. The deaths occurred during the 35 years the home operated from 1925 to 1961.

The government announced it was examining the "best means" to address the "deeply disturbing" revelations.

Historian Catherine Corless, who made the discovery, said her study of death records for St Mary's home in Tuam in County Galway suggests the former septic tank near the facility is a mass grave.

The septic tank, full to the brim with bones, was discovered in 1975 by locals when concrete slabs covering the tank broke up.

Until now, locals believed the bones mainly stemmed from the Great Irish famine of the 1840s when hundreds of thousands perished.

St Mary's, run by the Bon Secours Sisters, was one of several "mother and baby" homes in early 20th century Ireland.

Thousands of unmarried pregnant women - labelled "fallen women" at the time - were sent to the homes to have their babies.

The women were ostracised by the conservative Catholic society and were often forced to hand over their children for adoption.

Health issues and problems associated with the homes have long been documented. As far back as 1944, a government inspection report of the Tuam home described some of the children as "fragile, pot-bellied and emaciated".

The recently discovered death records for St Mary's show that 796 children died from malnutrition and infectious diseases, such as measles and TB.

Conservative Catholic teaching at the time denied children of unmarried parents baptism and therefore burial in consecrated land.

The home was knocked down many years ago to make way for new houses, but the area around the unmarked mass grave has been maintained by locals.

A fundraising committee has now been formed and it is hoped a memorial will be built with all the names and ages of the children displayed.

Archbishop of Tuam Michael Neary said he would meet leaders of the Bon Secours Sisters to assist with the memorial.

Minister for children and youth affairs Charlie Flanagan said "active consideration is being given to the best means of addressing the harrowing details".

"Many of the revelations are deeply disturbing and a shocking reminder of a darker past in Ireland when our children were not cherished as they should have been," he said.

Archbishop of Dublin Diarmuid Martin said if a public inquiry into the "mother and baby" homes in Ireland was not established then a social history project was necessary.

He also said he supports "excavating what may be unmarked graves" at these sites.

The development is yet another damning disclosure of a Catholic Church-run institution in Ireland following almost countless revelations of abuse and neglect at schools or institutions in recent decades.

AFP

Posted 4 JunJune 2014, updated 5 JunJune 2014

[Hondaracer]

Among the many fucked up things about residential schools is that they were still running in the 90s. The FUCKING 90s!!!!! At least American abolished slavery a century ago (their greatest sin) while our greatest sin was still alive when I became an adult. It's just bonkers.

Also, how are there not people in prison for this? This was not just a case of schools being tough or gov't support - much of what happened was/is a crime. Sexual and physical abuse, murder, etc. Many of the people who ran these schools are still alive - how is it that they walk free?

Because they are all associated with the church

[Manic!]

A fundraising committee has now been formed and it is hoped a memorial will be built with all the names and ages of the children displayed.

Archbishop of Tuam Michael Neary said he would meet leaders of the Bon Secours Sisters to assist with the memorial.



assist with the memorial? the guy is part of of an organization worth tens of billions and he is talking about assisting. What B.S.


I also have a hard time believing they have no records of any of this. I wouldn't be surprised if they are hiding a lot of damaging information.

[trollface]

Among the many fucked up things about residential schools is that they were still running in the 90s. The FUCKING 90s!!!!!

We honestly still have not changed that much, there has never been a time in history someone wasn't getting the shaft.There is a metric ton of exploitation and abuse of disadvantaged groups across the globe. We're just somewhat isolated from it living in a 1st world country. You saw first hand how ugly people got when Covid 19 happened. Most people are 2 rocks and a stick away from going back to caveman shit.

Google "MS St.Louis" or "Komagata Maru"

[nismodrifter]

https://arcabc.ca/islandora/object/tru:1611
^
Stories from people who have survived the place.
Date published: 2001

[mikemhg]

We'll see how long this one stays in the news as opposed to the Humboldt Broncos deaths, in which the country stood still for months.

Definitely not seeing this news carry as many legs anecdotally online as I did that one.

I suppose some lives are more important then others.

[mikemhg]

It's almost laughable that the RCMP are saddled with handling the investigation into missing indigenous people.

The same premilitary group formed for the exact basis of controlling and pacifying indigenous people -- and to a lesser/shorter extent, the Irish.

Imagine being indigenous and having to see our federal police force turn a blind eye, ignore, or cover up hundreds if not thousands of missing and killed people in this province alone?

It's wild when you think about it.

[68style]

We'll see how long this one stays in the news as opposed to the Humboldt Broncos deaths, in which the country stood still for months.

Definitely not seeing this news carry as many legs anecdotally online as I did that one.

I suppose some lives are more important then others.

I’m glad I’m not the only “heartless bastard” that thought that whole thing was ridiculous compared to what else happens in this world... a tragedy yes but geez whole country leaving sticks out in porches and stuff... most people won’t even light a candle for these poor native kids

[Bouncing Bettys]

The full movie of Where The Spirit Lives is on Youtube if anyone wants to watch it.
https://youtu.be/7aW4tzklTLQ

[Hondaracer]

https://i.imgur.com/qWRYT0r.png

[MG1]

I was at Forest Lawn cemetery yesterday when I noticed the Canadian flag at the fountain was flying full mast. I phoned the office and made a suggestion to have it lowered to half mast as a gesture of respect for the 215 dead indigenous children. Receptionist passed me on the the person in charge of the grounds. They told me they are not a government owned facility, so it was not something, something, something - poor reception. I told them I understand, but it would be a nice gesture nonetheless. Today, the flag was at half mast.

[6793026]

Indians, Native indians, indigenous, Aboriginals, First nations.... All these names. I've volunteered on a native reserve for 5 yrs so I can imagine...

I had someone tell me "you'll never understand what I had to go thru at residential school" that hit close to home.

I saw the news report on CBC today during dinner (East coast feed); they had a INDIAN crisis hotline... wtf... how politically incorrect is this... INDIAN crisis hotline... wtf.

[MG1]

Like Indian curry............ I mean that term came about because of Columbus and other explorers thinking they reached the orient. India. Let's see........... they don't look very chinese. Yeah, they're Indians.

I guess natives is okay? Indigenous suggests they were always here. Not so.

First Nations, because they had nations set up? That works. Aboriginals.......... that's a white man term, yes?

EDIT: inhabiting or existing in a land from the earliest times or from before the arrival of colonists; indigenous.

Yeah, it's confusing. Like gay people not wanting to be called gay. Some want to be called queers, fairies, etc. Then it changes back to wanting to be called gay. And, I'm not talking about trans and in between all that......... my head hurts.

I don't want to be called a senior, btw, lol. Old fart, maybe?

[MG1]

So, if pope, john paul, or whoever it is these days apologizes, that means they are admitting something. Deny, deny, deny................ like, "I did not have sexual relations with that woman...."

Someone needs to dig up records that must have been made by people in charge.

[whitev70r]

Catholic church is just beginning to admit the sexual molestation, sexual assault, cover up ... how long did that take and how much $$ through litigation, courts, etc.?

[JD¹³]

Catholic church is just beginning to admit the sexual molestation, sexual assault, cover up ... how long did that take and how much $$ through litigation, courts, etc.?
Only about 1000 years.

It's well past the point for the Church to lose their tax exemption status. Religious groups like non-profits are given this exemption if they are deemed to create public benefit. They clearly do not. One years worth of property tax on church's in Canada would fund clean drinking water for every indigenous community in the country and then some. It's a start, and they fucking owe it.

[whitev70r]

I actually don't think it is a bad idea to fine the Catholic church to support, help, counsel, etc. in order to make amends. How about $1 billion as a start? Instead of our tax dollars going toward further sonar/radar tests at every residential school.

... actually, make that $5 billion as a start.

[JD¹³]

I actually don't think it is a bad idea to fine the Catholic church to support, help, counsel, etc. in order to make amends. How about $1 billion as a start? Instead of our tax dollars going toward further sonar/radar tests at every residential school.
Too slow and no leverage, they'd drag it through the courts forever because they'd spend the same or more to save face. Property tax = HERE'S YOUR BILL and all tax paid by the church goes to the fund. Don't want to pay it? Property is seized/foreclosed and sold to achieve the same result.

[sdubfid]

-Will there be any confirmation of the ground radar results, or a second company to verify?
-How accurate is this technology? ex. could it be 200 bodies or 230 bodies or is this technology 100% accurate?
-Can it detect humans vs animals?
-For example if there were 10 bodies on picktons property is this technology accurate enough for criminal convictions without excavation or do the actual bones need to be dug up?

[underscore]

I imagine if they found 215 skulls that's pretty conclusively from 215 humans. I'm not sure why you're expecting it to need verification though.

[Hondaracer]

Well they will likely exhume them at this point and do proper DNA testing etc

[sdubfid]

I imagine if they found 215 skulls that's pretty conclusively from 215 humans. I'm not sure why you're expecting it to need verification though.

Well I was not aware they found 215 definitive skulls. Other mass graves take years of investigation. It’s been a few days therefore I think it’s more appropriate to say suspected remains of 215 until the physical evidence confirms it.

[mikemhg]

Well I was not aware they found 215 definitive skulls. Other mass graves take years of investigation. It’s been a few days therefore I think it’s more appropriate to say suspected remains of 215 until the physical evidence confirms it.

Curious what point you're trying to allege here? That residential schools didn't exist, and that the firsthand stories of atrocities committed there are simply lies?

I'm all for being a skeptic, but just curious where you're going with this thought process?

I've seen some people using the same rationale online, claiming these deaths were as a result of TB or small pox, and not as a result of any nefarious reasons.

[inv4zn]

-Will there be any confirmation of the ground radar results, or a second company to verify?
-How accurate is this technology? ex. could it be 200 bodies or 230 bodies or is this technology 100% accurate?
-Can it detect humans vs animals?
-For example if there were 10 bodies on picktons property is this technology accurate enough for criminal convictions without excavation or do the actual bones need to be dug up?

While GPR will never be 100% accurate, and does require a bit of skill/experience to decipher the graphs, it's pretty damn accurate. GPR won't show you an outline of a skull, it'll pickup where the bodies are laid.

Because the bodies were buried over a period of time, the likelihood of them just being tossed in a pit is very low (sorry, I know that's a bit grim). And so it's likely a number of bodies over an area, which is very easy/accurate.

As ^ said, being a skeptic is probably a good thing, but your questions come off as thinly disguised conspiracy theorist questions...

...and if that's the case, politely fuck off.

[sdubfid]

Curious what point you're trying to allege here? That residential schools didn't exist, and that the firsthand stories of atrocities committed there are simply lies?

I'm all for being a skeptic, but just curious where you're going with this thought process?

I've seen some people using the same rationale online, claiming these deaths were as a result of TB or small pox, and not as a result of any nefarious reasons.

I made no comments about residential schools or conspiracies. I’m simply wondering the accuracy of the technology to come up with the 215 number. It is a substantial claim regardless of the location/circumstances.

[westopher]

Only about 1000 years.

It's well past the point for the Church to lose their tax exemption status. Religious groups like non-profits are given this exemption if they are deemed to create public benefit. They clearly do not. One years worth of property tax on church's in Canada would fund clean drinking water for every indigenous community in the country and then some. It's a start, and they fucking owe it.
The answer is literally this simple. It's a joke that it hasn't already happened.

[GLOW]

https://i.imgur.com/qWRYT0r.png

was listening to the news this morning and the pope's statement. this aged well, i immediately thought of this.

[westopher]

"Hey, you're organization is directly responsible for the death and abuse of hundreds of thousands of children"
"Oh man yeah that sucks, hopefully someone does something about it" - The Pope

[MG1]

Trudeau attacking the pope in hopes of directing some of the blame to outside influences. Ultimately, Canada is to blame.

This story really bothers me. As adults, we are responsible for protecting children. All children, no matter who's they are. Every time tears are shed over a dead child because of evil doers, our humanity takes a hit.

I know there are atrocities all over the world, but this was not in some jungle or third world country. These children were taken from their homes and forced to conform....... or suffer consequences. In Canada, a country that is supposed to have rights and freedoms.

[whitev70r]

I think Canada and the Catholic church should take equal blame. I can see it now, Trudeau blames the pope, the Pope blames Trudeau ....

edit .... already happening.

Canadian archbishop says Trudeau comments on Church's role in residential schools 'unfair' (https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/canadian-archbishop-says-trudeau-comments-on-church-s-role-in-residential-schools-unfair-1.5458553)

Trudeau said on Friday the Church needs to "step up" and to take responsibility.

"As a Catholic, I am deeply disappointed by the decision that the Catholic Church has taken now and over the past many years," Trudeau told reporters on Friday.

"I think it might also be good for the government to realize they’re asking us to improve the way we’re responding to this great tragedy, we’re trying, we’re making great progress, but we’ve got a long way to go always, I think the prime minister should look to his own government they also have many things to do," the archbishop said.

[westopher]

Well, the truth is, here is Trudeau apologizing for something he had no part in, but the organization he represents did.
Here's the pope, refusing to apologize for something, he, personally also had no part in, but the organization he represents did.
Trudeau has every right to be angry about it, Canada has every right to be angry about it, and most importantly indigenous Canadians have every right to be angry about it.

[6793026]

Who send these kids to the church... the government did.

Who paid the churches to operate??? SURELY it wasn't from their own pockets? It was the government.

Remember when residential schools also allowed US citizens to "adopt" these kids? Surely no one wants to adopt black kids. No one wants First Nations kids either. I wonder where the F these kids went. Most likely they disappeared somewhere. These operations were taken place cause money was involved.

There are shit your mgr did that was shady. Company apologized for previous actions, but your boss for sure ain't going to apologize to you.

[Mr.Money]

my big question is what happens the month after june?..


are they going to other sites now with radar ground detectors to piss more people off about the mass deaths' more than 250 announced.

[twitchyzero]

what would happen if you refused to let your kids go to these camps?

[Spoon]

Remember when residential schools also allowed US citizens to "adopt" these kids? Surely no one wants to adopt black kids. No one wants First Nations kids either. I wonder where the F these kids went. Most likely they disappeared somewhere. These operations were taken place cause money was involved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGqWRyBCHhw

[Manic!]

what would happen if you refused to let your kids go to these camps?


https://assets.tvo.org/prod/s3fs-public/article-thumbnails/The%20Scream.JPG?GPh8bnCBLvfBEoZvjsusMlDaVzxHFtaL

[donk.]

Uh, yeah, "proper article". Your dissemination of 'fake news' aside, published articles vs a meme...:rukidding:

[
Hey man, dank memes melt steel beams OpieOP

[GLOW]

dank memes melt steel beams

can someone explain this reference to me?

[Hondaracer]

9/11

[6793026]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGqWRyBCHhw

WOW, thank you for this. I really enjoyed learning about this. The propaganda is real and holy crap... they way they try to spin the ICWA 1977 act is just another example of how "white standards" are correct.

It's funny. If you live in surrey specials with 12 people you are living in unwell environment. 12 is NOTHING..... again, how the white mentality is the only standard was really a good hidden truth.

[mikemhg]

Canada is so strange when it comes to how we sternly protect the guilty party's details. I guess it's a blessing and a curse.

Remember the Central Park killer who killed the little girl, allegedly, Ibrahim Ali? The case happened 3 years ago, and still not a single detail about the guy accused. I've tried to follow it for years now, because it's certainly a strange one.

The mass shooter in Nova Scotia, the story now appears to be dead.

The guy who went on a stabbing spree in Lynn Valley, still not a single detail has really been released to the public about him.

With this story, I doubt we'll ever get any concrete information about the man and his motives.

It's such a bizarre aspect about Canada. In the US, by day 3 you know all about the accused, when the last time they farted, their favorite cereal, down to every social media post made.

Here in Canada, the story dies dead, and you never get a single piece of detail thereafter. I understand our privacy laws are different here, but damn, it would be nice to get some closure on some of these cases here.

[SumAznGuy]

Canada is so strange when it comes to how we sternly protect the guilty party's details. I guess it's a blessing and a curse.

Remember the Central Park killer who killed the little girl, allegedly, Ibrahim Ali? The case happened 3 years ago, and still not a single detail about the guy accused. I've tried to follow it for years now, because it's certainly a strange one.

The mass shooter in Nova Scotia, the story now appears to be dead.

The guy who went on a stabbing spree in Lynn Valley, still not a single detail has really been released to the public about him.

With this story, I doubt we'll ever get any concrete information about the man and his motives.

It's such a bizarre aspect about Canada. In the US, by day 3 you know all about the accused, when the last time they farted, their favorite cereal, down to every social media post made.

Here in Canada, the story dies dead, and you never get a single piece of detail thereafter. I understand our privacy laws are different here, but damn, it would be nice to get some closure on some of these cases here.

Central Park murderer's trial has been adjourned to 2021 so nothing new to update.

Nova Scotia killing appears to be dead in the news because the shooter is dead. Not really much to add to the story.

Lynn Valley accused stabbing suspect
https://bc.ctvnews.ca/north-vancouver-stabbing-suspect-makes-brief-court-appearance-on-murder-charge-1.5415239
Since they are still going to court, no one will talk about motive.

I do agree though sometimes the media's follow up is brutal but you also don't want all that info out there in the first few days because the info might not be correct or it could affect the trail of the accused.

[underscore]

The US system is terrible though. If the person is found innocent it doesn't matter because their life is already fucked. They get endlessly harassed and abused along with any family they have. Sure it'd be interesting to know the outcome sometimes, but the justice system isn't supposed to be entertainment. Likewise the court of public opinion shouldn't be what is determining guilt or punishment.

[Hondaracer]

I feel like the media here tries not to glorify the killer like the states does. But on the flip side it also seems like they just forget the stories and carry on.

The Newfoundland shooter I wouldn’t doubt there is external pressure to not report the finer details coming out as it makes the govt. and rcmp look terrible and they can no longer position themselves like guns were the issue when the guy is smuggling illegal firearms over the border etc.

[CivicBlues]

Canada is so strange when it comes to how we sternly protect the guilty party's details. I guess it's a blessing and a curse.

Remember the Central Park killer who killed the little girl, allegedly, Ibrahim Ali? The case happened 3 years ago, and still not a single detail about the guy accused. I've tried to follow it for years now, because it's certainly a strange one.

The mass shooter in Nova Scotia, the story now appears to be dead.

The guy who went on a stabbing spree in Lynn Valley, still not a single detail has really been released to the public about him.

With this story, I doubt we'll ever get any concrete information about the man and his motives.

It's such a bizarre aspect about Canada. In the US, by day 3 you know all about the accused, when the last time they farted, their favorite cereal, down to every social media post made.

Here in Canada, the story dies dead, and you never get a single piece of detail thereafter. I understand our privacy laws are different here, but damn, it would be nice to get some closure on some of these cases here.

Don't forget the guy that killed that Japanese student and left her body at Gabriola Mansion. I thought we'd find out details from the media. But every article I read just says there was NO motive and no indication on how she was killed. The guy was just convicted and sentenced and that's that. Bizarre there's absolutely no follow up.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/william-schneider-natsumi-kogawa-guilty-sentence-1.4889259

[mikemhg]

By the way, I'm a fuckhead. That post was meant for the Muslim family killing thread.

I'm getting mixed up with all these death posts in the OT here.

[mikemhg]

Don't forget the guy that killed that Japanese student and left her body at Gabriola Mansion. I thought we'd find out details from the media. But every article I read just says there was NO motive and no indication on how she was killed. The guy was just convicted and sentenced and that's that. Bizarre there's absolutely no follow up.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/william-schneider-natsumi-kogawa-guilty-sentence-1.4889259

This is what I mean, very good point.

Same with the Ali one. He was only in the country for 4 months out of Syria, and he ended up killing a little girl in Central Park? It just seems so strange, I always wondered if this was just to grab a perp to close the case. The topic of refugees and immigration is such a hot topic nowadays, you would think we'd hear more about this guy's background after these 3 years, character stories, anything about the guy. Try to search him out, you won't find a single piece of info about him.

I guess why it bothers me is that is seems there's never closure to any of these cases, the Canadian media seems to close shop and move on, there is no decent investigative pieces, perhaps that's the case of Post Media gobbling up and centralizing everything nowadays, who knows.

When I was working in the justice system there was always rumors of serial killers running around in Vancouver, without them ever being solved, thus I'm always curious when these bizarre cases are just closed without any further details divulged.

Given the number of coverups by police in this city in the past, it only emboldens those conspiracy theories (Clifford Olson, Pickton brothers, etc).

I suppose there's more money to be made posting clickbait FB write ups about residents complaining about the long grass growing in Vancouver parks, etc.

[CivicBlues]

If it bleeds, it leads.

In depth reporting? Got everyone snoring.

[punkwax]

CivicBlues posts get rave reviews when he’s talking news.

[CivicBlues]

Whenever the media is a squawkin' they got me talkin' like Johnny Cochrane

[Manic!]

104 ‘potential graves’ detected at site of former residential school in Manitoba

https://www.abbynews.com/news/104-potential-graves-detected-at-site-of-former-residential-school-in-manitoba/

The Sioux Valley Dakota Nation in Manitoba is working to find students buried at Brandon Indian Residential School, which was in operation from 1895 to 1972.

Simon Fraser University and University of Windsor researchers, along with the Sioux Valley Dakota Nation, hope to identify an unknown number of children to restore their identities – either through commemoration or repatriation.

“The families and communities whose children were lost while attending these schools have questions that deserve answers,” said Sioux Valley Chief Jennifer Bone in a video statement June 1.

“The children buried at these sites must have their identities restored, and their stories told. They will never be forgotten, every child matters.”

Investigations into the cemeteries and unmarked graves at the school began in 2012. A number of potential graves have so far been identified.

[whitev70r]

Hundreds of unmarked graves discovered in Saskatchewan

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/cowessess-marieval-indian-residential-school-1.6078375

The chief of the Cowessess First Nation in southeast Saskatchewan is set to announce the discovery of a large number of remains at a former residential school site.

Wednesday's release did not have a specific number of unmarked graves that have been found, but said the discovery "will be the most significantly substantial to date in Canada."

[westopher]

I wonder how many thousands of children the number will reach when this is all done.
You know what a good step to reconciliation would be? Maybe some clean drinking water on reserves JT. If we can afford 100 billion dollars in economic stimulus I think we can afford to do that? Would go a lot further than saying oh sorry and changing our FB profiles to a every child matters border around our pictures. Hell, maybe make the Catholic Church pay for some of it?
Also, I just saw a story that it’s the remains of 751 children in Saskatchewan.

[twitchyzero]

i was reading a manitoba one with unmarked graves was ran by Methodists

these nonsecular institutions have blood on their hands but feds created the program and and kept supporting it, ultimately ottawa is criminally responsible

[westopher]

Agreed. I think that everyone involved should have to contribute to the reconciliation however.
It’s crazy to think of the collateral damage this caused all throughout Canada today, like the addictions issues, the homeless population, huge portions of the mental health crisis, and the ignorance of the government to these issues that plagues Canada to this day. This will take generations to repair, if they even bother to take measurable steps to do it starting now, instead of just lip service.

[pastarocket]

I am sick to my stomach after reading a news article about the hundreds of unmarked graves at that former residential school is Saskatchewan.

I think that this is one of most disgusting and disrespectful things to do to an deceased person. Let people rest in peace! :facepalm:

Chief Delorme said they believe both adults and children were buried at the site.

The graves are unmarked but Chief Delorme said they believe there may have been marks on the graves or headstones prior to 1960, but said the Catholic Church representatives, who oversaw the site, removed them.

“Removing headstones is a crime in this country and we are treating this like a crime scene at this moment,” said Chief Delorme.

There needs to be more pressure on the Catholic church, on Pope Francis, to issue a formal apology for these atrocities. Step up Pope! :mad:

[whitev70r]

Time to change the title of this thread ... unless you want to start a new one everytime ... and there will be more!

Clean drinking water, livable houses, schools, healthcare ... least Canada can do.

There are other stories that whoever owned the land where the graves were located sold the property and now it's an RV park!

I don't know what the Indigenous Elders will decide but there is a part of me that exhuming the graves to find cause of death is kind of pointless, it disturbs the graves, and seems even more traumatic. But whatever they decide and think best.

[westopher]

Lol @the pope stepping up. The Catholic Church has operated with impunity and it will continue as long as people consider any criticism of the Catholic Church as an organization to be an attack on their religion.

[JDMDreams]

^^ good luck, aren't they like the richest organisation on earth? What population of the voters are native Vs church goers?

[yray]

all this research and reviving the history is great... recognizing past mistakes

If we are repeating the same mistakes now, shame on us as Canadians.

But there is a limit to reconciliation. changing school names, abstaining from celebrating Canada day... might as well start digging up Vancouver as it seems the whole city was a graveyard to the natives at some point in time?

Just recognize and move on, don't repeat the same mistakes.

[quasi]

Saskatchewan without a doubt has the most indigenous people so it's not surprising to me at all that they will have the largest burial sites if the same shit was going on at all residential schools which is what was happening by the sounds of it.

Saskatchewan I believe still to this date, half the public schools are Catholic. When I left there in the late 80's most public school were Catholic so the Churches have their hands all over that place. It's weird thinking back how backwards that school system was, teachers would hit you if you acted out. I got punched in the head by teachers and had my head smashed together with other kids many times from the age of 6 on, I never got it but they also used the strap which was essentially getting whipped with a belt. It's still nothing compared to the shit they did to those kids at the residential schools.

[CRS]

all this research and reviving the history is great... recognizing past mistakes

If we are repeating the same mistakes now, shame on us as Canadians.

But there is a limit to reconciliation. changing school names, abstaining from celebrating Canada day... might as well start digging up Vancouver as it seems the whole city was a graveyard to the natives at some point in time?

Just recognize and move on, don't repeat the same mistakes.

How does one move on without reconciliation?

:badpokerface:

Imagine someone from the government went and kidnapped your kids and then left them without basic necessities and they died. Buried them without your knowledge and then only decades later you find out about it.

Would you be good that the same government just saying "yeah, it happened, we recognize it, let's just move on since the past is the past"?

[westopher]

While residential schools specifically are in the past, the poor treatment of indigenous people certainly is very much current.

[meme405]

I wonder how many thousands of children the number will reach when this is all done.


~4500 if I had to venture a guess.

That's not a number fetched out of thin air either, I'm sure someone can find the news stories, but years ago the government admitted that some 4500+ children died in the hands of the residential schools. These graves that are being found are remnants of those deaths.

Which is why I find it bizarre that people are shocked by this, the government already admitted that these children died, in their own documents. I guess you could be ignorant to what they did with the bodies, I personally am not surprised at all, the children were snatched out of their homes, and moved far away from where they lived, when they died whoever was in charge just buried them out back. Its disgusting that someone would think its okay, but unsurprising given all the other atrocities these same people were comiting.

[whitev70r]

^ I heard an interview with an Indigenous leader this morning, he projected the numbers of unmarked graves of children could be in the 20,000 range.

But all projections.

[underscore]

You know what a good step to reconciliation would be? Maybe some clean drinking water on reserves JT. If we can afford 100 billion dollars in economic stimulus I think we can afford to do that?

I'm not familiar with all the details like if there's some reason the gov't isn't technically responsible for it, but either way it'd be a good thing to do and something that should've been done ages ago. It seems like the best time to be doing it too, isn't throwing money into public works like infrastructure a common tactic when a lot of people are struggling to find work?

[westopher]

From what I’ve read, it has to do with the government being unable to agree to the costs laid out by some companies.
Contractor says it will cost X
Government says it should cost Y and they won’t move forward with it due to that.
But we can spend 12.6 billion on an oil pipeline. I understand one is infrastructure for economic gains and one won’t provide that, but we are talking about basic human rights not being met in a first world country.
Edit, after a quick read, the government actually has made pretty significant progress on that issue, as it’s lifted over 100 advisories since 2017. There is approx 50 to go.

[JDMDreams]

I know its sad with the unmarked graves but was it really the fault of the government? I mean life expectancy was much lower even 100 years ago, could it be some flu or disease that wiped out a bunch of people? Just look at Coronas now.

[CRS]

I know its sad with the unmarked graves but was it really the fault of the government? I mean life expectancy was much lower even 100 years ago, could it be some flu or disease that wiped out a bunch of people? Just look at Coronas now.

Can't tell if you're intentionally being dense and ignoring context or if you really just lack awareness.

[MG1]

700+ in Saskatchewan residential school grounds...........

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/24/world/canada/indigenous-children-graves-saskatchewan-canada.html




The US are just as bad???

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/23/us/indigenous-children-indian-civilization-act-1819.html?action=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article


Wow, RS moves quickly. Went to take a piss before hitting send button and one page later...........

[inv4zn]

I know its sad with the unmarked graves but was it really the fault of the government? I mean life expectancy was much lower even 100 years ago, could it be some flu or disease that wiped out a bunch of people? Just look at Coronas now.

Yes, lower life expectancies and viruses somehow personified and went around separating children from their parents and throwing them into a 'school' to try and beat the Indian out of them.

:rukidding:

[JDMDreams]

^ I mean you can buy ppl about a hundred years ago with slavery, it was just a different times back then with European mentality. With the whole defeat and conquering of other countries. Just look at US Vs China, they won't let the inferior Chinese be #1 in anything.

[CRS]

^ I mean you can buy ppl about a hundred years ago with slavery, it was just a different times back then. With the whole defeat and conquer.

Bruh slavery still exists today.

Even if it doesn't, does it make it okay?

[JDMDreams]

So they say that they found unmarked graves not a mass grave. And some bodies of adults, so they might have just stumbled on an old cemetery

[68style]

It's going to be a loooooooong summer of graves and guilt in the news

[CivicBlues]

I guess we should cancel BC Day, Thanksgiving and Christmas pre-emptively now.

[yray]

How does one move on without reconciliation?

:badpokerface:

Imagine someone from the government went and kidnapped your kids and then left them without basic necessities and they died. Buried them without your knowledge and then only decades later you find out about it.

Would you be good that the same government just saying "yeah, it happened, we recognize it, let's just move on since the past is the past"?

how far do you want to go with reconciliation?

Kick everyone non native out of the unceded land, which is basically all of Canada?

Pretty sure all the people that decided on these policies have either passed away or pretty close to dying. Should we take them to court?

[JDMDreams]

Yes just like how USA should be apologize for nuking Japan, and Japan should cancel the Olympics for what they did in Ww2

I guess we should cancel BC Day, Thanksgiving and Christmas pre-emptively now.

:pokerface::fulloffuck:

[68style]

My work meetings are a mess now, I’m sure most of you have surmised by now that I work for the feds in some capacity, but every manager now is is starting every single meeting with a 2 minute long spiel on what lands the office is on, or their home (!) and moment of silence for those we’ve lost etc etc etc…

I mean I’m sympathetic to the problem itself, but what’s the solution? Are any of these people giving up their colonial government jobs out of shame or embarrassment? All these people are so eager to guilt the shit out of everyone and act like they care or are an instrument of change, but to actually do something meaningful besides waste everyone’s time with contrived words… nay, won’t happen and never will.

I so badly wanted to ask my manager after some spiel she went on the other day if she has any plans of ceding her home in North Van just to watch her suddenly turn into a bubbling vat of excuses about limits and timeframes and what’s “reasonable” but gotta zip it right? lol

[JDMDreams]

Yea, that's been going on, it's pride month where's the spiel on that?

[CivicBlues]

Jesus that must be absolutely infuriating. Look I'm all for social justice and all, and think the whole anti-wokeness movement is a bit of a dogwhistle for racist cunts, but even I have limits. I work for a US company and after George Floyd it became uber-woke all of a sudden with constant mass emails about how they're supporting Black-owned businesses and Black employees. Then when the narrative (and heritage month) shifted to Anti-Asian attacks it turned to showing support for AAPI (Asian-American/Pacific Islander) owned business and Asian employees. It's never-ending saccharine BS. The fact that someone on the company payroll is being paid to write all this drivel and clog up thousands of inboxes is what boggles my mind.

[Manic!]

Natives will stop talking about it as soon as Christians stop talking about Jesus. The guy died almost 2000 years ago. Its like 24/7 for some people. Every meal every event a couple of hours min on Sunday. I could could understand talking about someone all the time if you were related or knew the guy but sooner or later you get over it. With Jesus people never get over it and they pass it on to there kids. Also look at all the buildings they built for him it's nuts. Even worse it's all tax free. What a waste.

[68style]

I get where you’re going with it, but Canada is one of the most agnostic countries in the world… USA would be a better target for that jab.

I don’t honestly want to spend all my time talking about something incessantly, maybe I’m too logical but I want solutions. It happened, so what do we do now? Talking helps somewhat with healing but then what?

[Manic!]

I get where you’re going with it, but Canada is one of the most agnostic countries in the world… USA would be a better target for that jab.

I don’t honestly want to spend all my time talking about something incessantly, maybe I’m too logical but I want solutions. It happened, so what do we do now? Talking helps somewhat with healing but then what?

The guy has 2 major holidays plus Ontario and Alberta have public funded catholic school boards.

What we need to do is find all the bodies, give them a proper burial, find the people/ organizations responsible and hold them responsible. No person/organization should get away with killing thousands of children.


and this.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47134033

The female congregation dissolved in 2005 under Pope Benedict was the Community of St Jean, which was based in France, Alessandro Gisotti of the Vatican press office told CBS News.

In 2013, the Community of St Jean admitted that priests had behaved "in ways that went against chastity" with several women in the order, according to the French Roman Catholic newspaper La Croix.

In a separate case in India last year, a bishop was arrested over allegations that he raped a nun 13 times between 2014 and 2016.

Bishop Franco Mulakkal, who headed the diocese in Jalandhar in the northern state of Punjab, has denied the accusations.

In Chile, reports of abuse of nuns carried out by priests led the Vatican to launch an investigation last year. The women were reportedly removed from the order after highlighting the abuse.

Last year, the Associated Press news agency reported cases of abuse in Italy and Africa.

[westopher]

Natives will stop talking about it as soon as Christians stop talking about Jesus. The guy died almost 2000 years ago. Its like 24/7 for some people. Every meal every event a couple of hours min on Sunday. I could could understand talking about someone all the time if you were related or knew the guy but sooner or later you get over it. With Jesus people never get over it and they pass it on to there kids. Also look at all the buildings they built for him it's nuts. Even worse it's all tax free. What a waste.
You could say that about basically any religion. It's also not really correlated to people speaking about traumas and atrocities, compared to, um, a guy.

how far do you want to go with reconciliation?

Kick everyone non native out of the unceded land, which is basically all of Canada?

Pretty sure all the people that decided on these policies have either passed away or pretty close to dying. Should we take them to court?
I get what both you and CRS are saying, and I'm pretty sure we could all agree we could meet somewhere in the middle.
Social programs for indigenous youth, with input from indigenous elders
Scholarships
Respecting their unceded territory, or at least working in conjunction with them for environmental projects
Including them as a branch of Canadian government.
Just a few examples.

[Hondaracer]

I’m open to being engaged with stuff like this but when you want to start cancelling holidays and drag it into every little thing, sorry but ya lose me.

Much like 68Style I work for a giant that wants to portray the “woke” image. My login screen changed to a bunch of native drawings and native language/wording about reconciliation after the first bodies were found when in the entire time I’ve worked for this company I’ve never seen the login screen change once.

The way companies do it seems so incredibly insincere it pretty much has the opposite effect as they want lol..I don’t need to hear my manager talk about some reconciliation email he received that a team of HR people formulated after listening to the radio etc. And actual constructive discussion about the topic. It’s actually pretty fucking gross at the corporate level

[westopher]

Totally agree with that. It’s like the emails from airlines and banks. “We’re here for you during times of need in the covid 19 crisis.”
Fuck you, you are literally here for no one fucking ever. The entire business model is exploiting people and tax evasion.

[CRS]

how far do you want to go with reconciliation?

Kick everyone non native out of the unceded land, which is basically all of Canada?

Pretty sure all the people that decided on these policies have either passed away or pretty close to dying. Should we take them to court?

Honestly, I'm not sure how far I would want to go. I'm sure a compromise can be reached.

But you're clearly just no reconciliation and move on which is absolutely abhorrent.

[JDMDreams]

^ I'm pretty sure there has been reconciliation, I've personally heard from a native person that he received $200k for being in a residential school. I'm sure most of that money has been blown by now though :pokerface: in that case I would like reconciliation as I'm sure I'm related to some of the Chinese that built the railways here

[yray]

Honestly, I'm not sure how far I would want to go. I'm sure a compromise can be reached.

But you're clearly just no reconciliation and move on which is absolutely abhorrent.

where the fuck did I say no reconciliation, it's been a whole fucking month of orange and speak out and fuck Canada... this is going on a bit long

and to be honest, what is reconciliation

natives get pst free, access to many welfare programs, reserve lands, fishing rights and income tax exemptions... all these program has a leg up on alot of Canadians, whether they chose to use it is up to them. I would agree more support is needed for natives in the middle of nowhere in Canada. However, I am tired of hearing the support is endangering their culture.

[JDMDreams]

^^ this, they literally have it handed to them. It's your choice whether you still want to blame others for your problems. Or work your way out of the stereotype. I literally hear immigrants swimming to the Canada with lint in their pockets and made something out of nothing, learning the Canadian culture and be positive members of society.

[Manic!]

......

[Manic!]

Similar to people who have been here for generations complaining they can't afford a house but you have immigrants who come here with very little money owning a house or 10 years.

[68style]

where the fuck did I say no reconciliation, it's been a whole fucking month of orange and speak out and fuck Canada... this is going on a bit long

and to be honest, what is reconciliation

natives get pst free, access to many welfare programs, reserve lands, fishing rights and income tax exemptions... all these program has a leg up on alot of Canadians, whether they chose to use it is up to them. I would agree more support is needed for natives in the middle of nowhere in Canada. However, I am tired of hearing the support is endangering their culture.

It's a bit more complicated than that... you have to live on a reservation to get most of those benefits... and reservations, if you've ever been to one, are fuckin unpleasant places for anyone to grow up in. It's no wonder anyone comes out of that environment a mess.

There is a lot of corruption at the band leader level too, that definitely grinds change to a halt in many circumstances... but the whole idea of reservations is isolating in itself... it's almost like a government funded homeless camp the way they treat so many of them. Ask anyone who lives in Kelowna if they ever dare set foot in Westbank... it's like the Compton of the interior.

Too much of the government just throwing money at the problem and then being like "Well... we gave you money, what else do you want?" and not really tacking the issue of independence or addiction or societal acceptance, etc. Part of where it all falls apart from a hypothetical standpoint is the entire idea of being inclusive and treating everyone the same doesn't jive with status and cultural preservation.

In a way, Quebec has the exact same issue... wanting to be both Canadian and French at the same time. It doesn't work, never has and never will...

[CRS]

where the fuck did I say no reconciliation, it's been a whole fucking month of orange and speak out and fuck Canada... this is going on a bit long

and to be honest, what is reconciliation

natives get pst free, access to many welfare programs, reserve lands, fishing rights and income tax exemptions... all these program has a leg up on alot of Canadians, whether they chose to use it is up to them. I would agree more support is needed for natives in the middle of nowhere in Canada. However, I am tired of hearing the support is endangering their culture.

all this research and reviving the history is great... recognizing past mistakes

If we are repeating the same mistakes now, shame on us as Canadians.

But there is a limit to reconciliation. changing school names, abstaining from celebrating Canada day... might as well start digging up Vancouver as it seems the whole city was a graveyard to the natives at some point in time?

Just recognize and move on, don't repeat the same mistakes.

Right about here.

[yray]

Right about here.

recognition and telling the truth that once upon a time Canada fucked up is the most important part of reconciliation

[CRS]

recognition and telling the truth that once upon a time Canada fucked up is the most important part of reconciliation

Recognition and telling the truth is the start of reconciliation.

If it ends there, it's nothing but lip service.

[supafamous]

where the fuck did I say no reconciliation, it's been a whole fucking month of orange and speak out and fuck Canada... this is going on a bit long

Been going on for a long, long time for them too but yeah, we all feel your pain of having to watch news stories about cultural genocide committed against these people. It's just so awful to hear about the suffering that other people went through for decades - it's not like it happened to you right? /s

and to be honest, what is reconciliation

natives get pst free, access to many welfare programs, reserve lands, fishing rights and income tax exemptions... all these program has a leg up on alot of Canadians, whether they chose to use it is up to them. I would agree more support is needed for natives in the middle of nowhere in Canada. However, I am tired of hearing the support is endangering their culture.

When the Nazis tried to exterminate the Jews and the western world let the Nazis get off to a head start and later felt bad about it they created a country out of nothing for the Jews and Germany makes it a point to talk about the shame of what they did in WW2. This is unlike in the US where people celebrate slavers and racists with their Confederate flags and statues of "losers".

We're just scratching the surface of the atrocities that our predecessors committed against First Nations people - it's only going to get worse as we start talking about it - way worse than Japanese internment camps and Chinese head taxes. The crimes of the past paved the way for the life we live today - even if you didn't do it yourself you still benefit from it so let's not get too worked up about what is a reparation tax.

If you wouldn't trade your life for their life and their life is a result of what we did to them maybe we should do something about levelling the playing field?

[yray]

Been going on for a long, long time for them too but yeah, we all feel your pain of having to watch news stories about cultural genocide committed against these people. It's just so awful to hear about the suffering that other people went through for decades - it's not like it happened to you right? /s



When the Nazis tried to exterminate the Jews and the western world let the Nazis get off to a head start and later felt bad about it they created a country out of nothing for the Jews and Germany makes it a point to talk about the shame of what they did in WW2. This is unlike in the US where people celebrate slavers and racists with their Confederate flags and statues of "losers".

We're just scratching the surface of the atrocities that our predecessors committed against First Nations people - it's only going to get worse as we start talking about it - way worse than Japanese internment camps and Chinese head taxes. The crimes of the past paved the way for the life we live today - even if you didn't do it yourself you still benefit from it so let's not get too worked up about what is a reparation tax.

If you wouldn't trade your life for their life and their life is a result of what we did to them maybe we should do something about levelling the playing field?

Thing with telling it constantly is paying lip service, it also waters down the seriousness of the situation.

Look at BLM, eventually it just became a full on free for all riot, did much come out of it?

Telling the truth, I support fully.
Changing school names, abstaining Canada day celebrations, not so much.

Yes, our education system could be better in integrating first nations history.

If we are willing to admit our wrongs, we should be proud, not a lot of nations can muster up the admit their own fuck ups.

Programs and support, I am not against it either. There needs to be better access and availability to those in need.

[Hondaracer]

Been going on for a long, long time for them too but yeah, we all feel your pain of having to watch news stories about cultural genocide committed against these people. It's just so awful to hear about the suffering that other people went through for decades - it's not like it happened to you right? /s



When the Nazis tried to exterminate the Jews and the western world let the Nazis get off to a head start and later felt bad about it they created a country out of nothing for the Jews and Germany makes it a point to talk about the shame of what they did in WW2. This is unlike in the US where people celebrate slavers and racists with their Confederate flags and statues of "losers".

We're just scratching the surface of the atrocities that our predecessors committed against First Nations people - it's only going to get worse as we start talking about it - way worse than Japanese internment camps and Chinese head taxes. The crimes of the past paved the way for the life we live today - even if you didn't do it yourself you still benefit from it so let's not get too worked up about what is a reparation tax.

If you wouldn't trade your life for their life and their life is a result of what we did to them maybe we should do something about levelling the playing field?

Good thing the modern state of Israel worked out so well..

[supafamous]

Thing with telling it constantly is paying lip service, it also waters down the seriousness of the situation.

Well, maybe we should do more than lip service rather than complain about a month of driving awareness of it?

Look at BLM, eventually it just became a full on free for all riot, did much come out of it?

So when the cops starting beating the protestors and the protestors defended themselves BLM became a "riot" and not a movement? While there were a few cases of the protesters starting fights, the VAST majority of violence were started by the police. Riots happened b/c the police used the state's authority to beat, attack and arrest people for peaceful protests.

Telling the truth, I support fully.
Changing school names, abstaining Canada day celebrations, not so much.

I don't know but if I had to attend a school every day that's named after a person who openly oppressed my ancestors due to their race I might not like it and may suggest that we rename it something that doesn't remind me daily that my country used to be virulently racist against me...like let's see who implemented the Chinese Head Tax....<checks notes> holy fuck, it's John A Fucking McDonald! Our first Prime Minister! The same asshole who formed the RCMP with the goal to eradicate First Nations people! Fuck that guy!

Just as the Germans don't put statues of Hitler in front of city halls to remind of his terrible acts (they also don't name schools after him), we don't need statues of John A McDonald to remind us that he was actually an asshole (Edit: And we don't need to name schools after him) (even for his time).

[underscore]

Ask anyone who lives in Kelowna if they ever dare set foot in Westbank... it's like the Compton of the interior.

I think you're confusing Westbank with Penticton. Westbank First Nation does very well for themselves, there's tons of businesses, residential areas, etc on their land and the only way to tell what parts of West Kelowna are and aren't on their land is to look at a map. What I've seen of their undeveloped land (I think it's used for cattle?) on the other side of the lake is the same story, neatly fenced, lots of professional signage, etc.

Penticton Indian Band on the other hand was always pretty rough when I lived down there. It's been a while since I drove through it but it was one of those places where you knew exactly where you were just by seeing it. I went to some kind of ceremony thing there once when I was a kid (which was really cool) but a lot of the place was a bunch of bad res stereotypes.

Too much of the government just throwing money at the problem and then being like "Well... we gave you money, what else do you want?" and not really tacking the issue of independence or addiction or societal acceptance, etc. Part of where it all falls apart from a hypothetical standpoint is the entire idea of being inclusive and treating everyone the same doesn't jive with status and cultural preservation.

That's a super common issue too, just look at all the lottery winners and pro athletes who blow it all. Throwing money at people almost never works and imo it's a cop out. At the very least they should be offering some kind of financial advisor training or assistance or something to go with it. I dunno how many would actually take them up on that but it couldn't hurt.

I'm actually curious how much some of the programs even get used and how much actual FN input there is into how they're set up and operated. I lived in Thunder Bay for a bit which has a huge FN population, a big university, and a big college. This is just an assumption based on appearance, but walking around town you'd see and meet a bunch of FN people. But in a year of going to school and living on campus, I saw one dude on campus. I even met a highschool kid who lived across the street from the uni who had no interest in going to school there. Granted that's just one kid but to me at least it seems like there's issues with how these programs are being implemented.

[yray]

I don't know but if I had to attend a school every day that's named after a person who openly oppressed my ancestors due to their race I might not like it and may suggest that we rename it something that doesn't remind me daily that my country used to be virulently racist against me...like let's see who implemented the Chinese Head Tax....<checks notes> holy fuck, it's John A Fucking McDonald! Our first Prime Minister! The same asshole who formed the RCMP with the goal to eradicate First Nations people! Fuck that guy!

Just as the Germans don't put statues of Hitler in front of city halls to remind of his terrible acts (they also don't name schools after him), we don't need statues of John A McDonald to remind us that he was actually an asshole (Edit: And we don't need to name schools after him) (even for his time).


Prime Minister John A. Macdonald acknowledged the necessity of Chinese labour. When the government of British Columbia tried to ban Chinese immigration in 1882, Macdonald said in the House of Commons, “either you must have this labour or you can’t have the railway.” (See The “Other” Last Spike.) But as construction of the railway neared completion, Macdonald willingly yielded to prejudiced and discriminatory politicians, trade unionists and public opinion. In 1884, he appointed the Royal Commission on Chinese Immigration to investigate the restriction of Chinese immigrants. (See also Royal Commissions.)

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/chinese-head-tax-in-canada

He is our first prime minister and did founded the country. We gotta give him some credit.

Sure, he did things that we see as wrong today but was it wrong in his lifetime?

He could've gone out and said the general perception is wrong, guarantee he would be kicked out like JWR with the liberals.

If you use modern day morals to look back, 9 out of 10 times is what the fuck were we thinking. Now flip back to being in the 1800s... such actions were not that fucked up.

[supafamous]

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/chinese-head-tax-in-canada

He is our first prime minister and did founded the country. We gotta give him some credit.

Sure, he did things that we see as wrong today but was it wrong in his lifetime?

He could've gone out and said the general perception is wrong, guarantee he would be kicked out like JWR with the liberals.

If you use modern day morals to look back, 9 out of 10 times is what the fuck were we thinking. Now flip back to being in the 1800s... such actions were not that fucked up.

Well yeah, killing coloured people for sport was de rigeur by any white ruler back in the 1800's. King Leopold II turned the Congo into his personal playground and killed about 10 million people and his people made it a sport to cut off people's hands (they didn't kill them so others would see what happened if you didn't obey). The British starved India and killed millions in the late 1800's.

I mean it was just how a white dude would flex back then, that's just the equivalent of modding your diesel truck to coal roll a pussy cyclist today.

I'm a simple man and I just think that targeting tens of thousands of people (or more) of a specific race/culture for death is genocide regardless of when you did it. I don't care about other messed up stuff of our past like calling women witches if they were good at healing people or lobotomizing people with mental health issues or torturing gay people (ok I care about that). I'm just calling out that committing genocide is wrong regardless of what century you were raised in and John A McDonald most definitely committed genocide against the natives. The Chinese Head Tax is just the cherry on the cake for saying that our first PM wasn't a particularly good man and he doesn't deserve statues or schools named after him considering the harm he also did.

We don't celebrate our average leaders, we celebrate our greats ones. John A. McDonald is not one of the great ones and we're not putting up statues of Justin Trudeau for getting us through the pandemic either. The Sedins will get statues but that bum Kassian will never get one.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/here-is-what-sir-john-a-macdonald-did-to-indigenous-people

[twitchyzero]

maybe i'm just a negative nancy but please tell me what's worth celebrating

the wider audience finally realized the horrific conditions that are most care homes
26,000+ dead, many of which are unnecessary..it's not about being woke, seniors regardless of country are always forgotten

i already said enough about the travel restrictions in other thread...too slow to respond and now too slow to reopen

scandal after scandal..i know most countries are worse but that would be a cop-out excuse

and now we're just getting into the real extent of understanding the genocide

i'll continue honouring remembrance day but celebrating the birth of colonization always seemed fucked to me and the pandemic response is downright embarassing for all canadians..one of the lowest point in our collective history outside of wartime, convince me otherwise

[MG1]

If one is to continue honouring remembrance day, the bottom line is, those soldiers were fighting for their country. Fighting under the ensign. Canada was founded by colonists, but everybody worked hard to make this country what it is. Immigrants who came to this country and struggled against all odds. To get that citizenship under the maple leaf. Proudly singing the national anthem. Olympians tearing up as the Canadian Flag is raised. Canada Centennial, Canada 150, Expo 86, Vancouver 2010, etc. I will celebrate this country no matter what, because "This is my home."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXSiS5yO8bA


I think we need to take a break and stand back and be thankful for what we have here. It is a great country. Not perfect, of course. Shit like this happens around the world. No excuse, but to throw out the baby with the water............... anyway. It's like cancer, we need to deal with it before it destroys everything. I know what I'll be doing on July 1st.

[EmperorIS]

Two Catholic churches burned down on First Nations land in Similkameen region

[Manic!]

Two Catholic churches burned down on First Nations land in Similkameen region

That makes 4 not surprised. It must be hard being a native christian right now.

[MG1]

Native christian.......... there's the root of the problem.

christian belief of, "my way or the highway." I was told by a Born Again co-worker once, that jesus loves you and so do I. I want you to find god and let him into your heart. Let god save you., etc. etc. etc............

As a child, I was forced to memorize and recite the lord's prayer. Bible reading in class in the morning. This was in a public school, ffs. Don't know when it happened, but it changed. Could be because students at Strathcona Elementary were non-christian, or the school board finally separated church from state like it was meant to be. Still, as late as the 1980's school districts in the Bible Belt (Fraser Valley), in-class bible readings were mandatory.

It's all about control. Like unions. The first time I attended a union meeting, I was immediately turned off by the rules and being called a brother. I know who my brothers and sisters are and they aren't any of you guys, that's for sure.

One of my favourite christmas songs, Huron Carol, was written by a jesuit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huron_Carol Check out the lyrics and history. Diversity Tree: "Huron Carol" Racist? (http://diversitytree.blogspot.com/2011/12/huron-carol-racist.html)

Oh look, huron peoples were nearly wiped out. Masacres and atrocities by the iroquois........ nuff said.

I'm surprised it took till now for these catholic churches to be torched. Were the natives that much under the control of the church that they feared god and the priests?

Why would you continue to believe in that religion after what they did to your people?

Food for thought. Nothing more. Nothing less.


god bless

[Manic!]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/queen-victoria-statue-winnipeg-1.6087684

1 arrested after Queen Victoria statue toppled at Manitoba Legislature

https://i.cbc.ca/1.6087795.1625183654!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpeg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/queen-victoria-statue-down.jpeg

[Manic!]

https://streamable.com/hjsp3i
Caption cook statue Victoria.

[underscore]

Who is actually organizing all this GPR being done at the schools? I keep hearing about the results but that's it.

[MG1]

https://streamable.com/hjsp3i
Caption cook statue Victoria.

Yeah, pull down a statue............... then some below average, nobody gets up on the platform as if he just won the Stanley Cup.

Oh, wait.......... we need to rename Lord Stanley's Cup. While we're at it, the game of hockey should not be allowed. Lacrosse, maybe. Don't drive cars, use running water, sewage system, cash, bitcoin, etc. No books, either. No written language. Tell history through stories............

Okay, this heat is getting to me......... this has nothing to do with the tragedy of the existence of residential schools. When people can't come up with real solutions by working through this tragedy, it always boils down to destruction. Destroying stuff is easier than building something positive. Out of the ashes comes not new growth, just more destruction.

[68style]

Yah where's the police for this stuff... any of us can get away with vandalizing stuff we don't like? You want it gone, do it democratically.

[JSALES]

Looks like they’re vandalizing the churches here now

https://fb.watch/6vN8ReF24i/

https://fb.watch/6vNQsO_jRT/

[Manic!]

Churches are getting vandalized and burned because the church has done nothing.

This is how Reconciliation is done.

In 1846 there was a battle in India, Sikhs vs the British at the Sutlej river a historically significant river to the Sikhs. The British name a warship after it called the Sutlej. That ship is used to attack the Nuu-chah-nulth community of Ahousat on Vancouver Island. The only survivor is a toddler. They take her. A few years latter she dies. When Sikhs found out about this 150 plus years later You know what the community did? We held an event and donated 200k to the Ahousat first nation. I was lucky to be there.



https://www.nationalobserver.com/2018/10/30/news/two-communities-take-reconciliaction-their-own-hands

Native groups should not have to start gofundme campaigns to guy ground penetrating radar. The roman catholic church a organization worth billions should at bare minimum fund the search for the bodies.

[westopher]

The issue here is that when you lose your temper, it hinders your arguments.
Those on the other side will just use it to diminish your cause. Revenge doesn’t get you equity.
I don’t care about the churches. I truly don’t, but I do care that there are people, especially indigenous people who do take solace in a Sunday service that are now without a church to have that service. The chief of the penticton band expressed the pain many members of his band have experienced due to these actions.
“There’s a lot of anger and hurt in our community, from the residential school survivors and elders,” Chief Gabriel said, stressing that any act of arson was unacceptable if it turned out that the fires were deliberate. “A lot of families, including my own, had events like funerals, marriages and baptisms in that church. Elders were attached to the church and some feel hurt by its loss.”
As with many of the BLM riots there are people who are undemocratically and unjustly taking it upon themselves to represent entire groups with actions that are not condoned by the movement.
I don’t have the solution. I’m just a middle class white guy and the last thing anyone needs me to do is make that decision. We’ve seen the results of that. But I am listening, and this is not representative of the majority of indigenous people who want a meaningful dialogue and solutions to their treatment as second class citizens.
Frankly I believe it’s the Canadian governments duty to hold themselves and the Catholic Church accountable. They can start by taxing churches, and taking care of clean drinking water and infrastructure. Cost was no object for the pandemic response, and clearly this will be a sliver of that money.
If they hurry up with meaningful solutions this will be a much less heated and destructive issue.

[Manic!]

Residential Story about a child being raped and a baby being murdered https://i.redd.it/0lmno6zpxz871.jpg

[CRS]

Manic, I'm going to put a spoiler out on that and a tag because that story is sickening.

[Manic!]

Manic, I'm going to put a spoiler out on that and a tag because that story is sickening.

I know why you are hiding it but it should not be. It should be posted on billboards all across the country. But hey at least the baby was not aborted.

Imagine if you walked into a room and saw someone raping one of your children. Would you pull out your phone and call the police or would you beat the shit out of them?

If someone in your family was killed and you found out who did it 30 years later would you want reconciliation or would you want the person in jail?

People seem to be more upset about the burning of buildings and the taking down of statues than the rape and murder of children.

[CRS]

Residential Story about a child being raped and a baby being murdered https://i.redd.it/0lmno6zpxz871.jpg

Where the story comes from:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30NCpvvVx98

[JSALES]

Churches are getting vandalized and burned because the church has done nothing.

This is how Reconciliation is done.

In 1846 there was a battle in India, Sikhs vs the British at the Sutlej river a historically significant river to the Sikhs. The British name a warship after it called the Sutlej. That ship is used to attack the Nuu-chah-nulth community of Ahousat on Vancouver Island. The only survivor is a toddler. They take her. A few years latter she dies. When Sikhs found out about this 150 plus years later You know what the community did? We held an event and donated 200k to the Ahousat first nation. I was lucky to be there.



https://www.nationalobserver.com/2018/10/30/news/two-communities-take-reconciliaction-their-own-hands

Native groups should not have to start gofundme campaigns to guy ground penetrating radar. The roman catholic church a organization worth billions should at bare minimum fund the search for the bodies.

I wouldn't say the church has completely done nothing, I came across this article on fb. It's an old article from 2016.

"Media reports in recent weeks have accused the Catholic Church escaping its financial obligations toward the global residential schools settlement due to a legal error by a bureaucrat in the federal government. The federal minister of aboriginal affairs has lent support to this view in her public comments. So did the Church “weasel out” of its obligations? The answer is no, but it’s a complicated tale"

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/fr-raymond-j-de-souza-the-truth-about-the-churchs-obligation-to-aboriginals?fbclid=IwAR01owZXdrjxoj8TyM_DSbdX6i_Lt dwztrOMjzheZoCWSxdrB5f0E-SDA7c

[mikemhg]

Props to Manic!

For someone who isn't indigenous, it's nice to see him show so much thought and empathy on the subject.

It's a pity more people can't empathize with those not within their own demographic, but alas that's life I suppose.

[underscore]

I know why you are hiding it but it should not be. It should be posted on billboards all across the country. But hey at least the baby was not aborted.

I get why you think it should be, but a lot of people would have a rough time reading that and it wouldn't have the effect you desire. Hell I shouldn't have read it myself.

[CRS]

Manitoba NDP leader calls out new Indigenous reconciliation minister

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1922071107574?fbclid=IwAR2BkoSfxAfxe1k-WTysG-2ZlWRwKr47vDycAh0X9DzpApuzd2jvQSPiG3Q

What a power move.

[GLOW]

i'm glad the acoustics in the area were so great too for everyone to hear him loud and clear

[sonick]

Manitoba NDP leader calls out new Indigenous reconciliation minister

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1922071107574?fbclid=IwAR2BkoSfxAfxe1k-WTysG-2ZlWRwKr47vDycAh0X9DzpApuzd2jvQSPiG3Q

What a power move.

Savage

[supafamous]

Manitoba NDP leader calls out new Indigenous reconciliation minister

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1922071107574?fbclid=IwAR2BkoSfxAfxe1k-WTysG-2ZlWRwKr47vDycAh0X9DzpApuzd2jvQSPiG3Q

What a power move.

"Let's see, it's my 1st day on the job as reconciliation minister. I think I'll defend residential schools."
"Hitler wasn't all bad ok?"

[Jason00S2000]

Soooo... how did this go?

A single body dug up?

Anything confirmed at all?

Or was this, yet another, woke-powered, guilt-ridden hoax?

Follow the money...

https://i.ibb.co/B5HZPF99/Gk-RXyc-QX0-AIRmw4.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/6cCY3Hg6/20210625-isabella-falsetti-resid-width-1000-format-webp-6n-MIa-NN.webp

[murd0c]

Good to have you back Jason!!